Legends of the Old West - DEADWOOD Ep. 1 | W. Earl Brown Interview

Episode Date: May 28, 2019

"Deadwood" star W. Earl Brown gives us a behind-scenes-look at the TV show and the movie. Earl played "Dan Dority" in the HBO drama and he talks about a range of topics: the abrupt cancellation of the show, the moment he learned the movie was a go, the emotional reunion of the cast and crew, a preview of the long-awaited film, and much more. This is the first episode of a mini series about Deadwood: the TV show, the movie and the real history. Join Black Barrel+ for early access and bingeable seasons: blackbarrel.supportingcast.fm/join For more details, visit our website www.blackbarrelmedia.com and check out our social media pages. We’re @OldWestPodcast on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Meeting with friends before the show? We can book your reservation. And when you get to the main event, skip to the good bit using the card member entrance. Let's go seize the night. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Visit amex.ca slash yamex. Benefits vary by card. Other conditions apply. when we made that show the spirit was present and it returned with the movie

it was overwhelming i mean it was something we all waited for for 12 years. This is the spot. Right here is the spot where I found out Deadwood was coming back. That was the moment. That was the moment that you felt the spirit through the room, you know, just, we're back. Welcome to a special miniseries on the Legends of the Old West podcast. I'm your host, Chris Wimmer, and this series is all about Deadwood, the TV show, the movie, and the true stories of the infamous mining town in the Black Hills.

First up is my interview with veteran actor W. Earl Brown. Earl played Dan Doherty in the acclaimed HBO drama. He's got some amazing stories about the production of the show and the film, including the moment he knew the movie was finally going to happen, and the emotional reunion of the cast and crew among many others. And since this episode is all about Deadwood, we have a message from our friends in the real Deadwood. Explore the Adams Museum, the Days of 76 Museum, the Adams House, and Mount Moriah Cemetery to fully understand Deadwood's raucous past.

At the Adams Museum, get up close and personal with the legends and outlaws who brought Deadwood's raucous past. At the Adams Museum, get up close and personal with the legends and outlaws who brought Deadwood international notoriety and see Deadwood's own one-of-a-kind Wild Bill Hickok collection. Visitors to the days of 76 Museum become acquainted with an astonishing collection of wagons and carriages, including the infamous Deadwood Stage, along with an extensive collection of historic firearms and American Indian artifacts. The Adams House, built in 1892, is an elegant Victorian-era home with original contents that chronicles Deadwood's transition from a lawless mining camp to a prosperous and technologically rich metropolitan city.

And finally, Deadwood's Boot Hill, Mount Moriah Cemetery, provides a tranquil location to pay homage and respect to such notables as Wild Bill Hickok, Calamity Jane, and Seth Bullock. Let your journey through the Wild West begin in historic Deadwood, South Dakota. Wild West begin in historic Deadwood, South Dakota. And now, here's my conversation with W. Earl Brown. All right, Earl. First of all, thank you very much for agreeing to do the interview. Appreciate it. So, as we talked about before, before we actually turn on all the mics, we're going to do a lot of discussion about the Deadwood movie here. Certainly, as much as you're able to say, we know you can't give away trade secrets and there are certain house rules that you have to obey. But I do want to jump back to, I want to start with going back to the first day of production.

As I mentioned before, I follow your social media accounts and I saw the amazing threads you put out about the table read and the first day on set. So can you take me back to the first day on the Deadwood set filming the movie? When you walk up there, the mud's back in the thoroughfare, the buildings are dressed, you're back in this feeling. How much of a homecoming did that feel like? It was overwhelming. I mean, it was something we all waited for for 12 years. And every single one of us, without fail, it is the pinnacle of achievement in our careers. Deadwood wasn't a job, even though it paid well. You know, it was almost a calling, you know, for all of us, because you couldn't just show up and hit your mark and say your lines. It required really a piece of your spirit every day.

And so to be back in that, first of all, I've said before, the show didn't end, the show stopped. And there's a big difference between those two things. Looking back, there was writing on the wall toward the end of season three that I didn't recognize at the time. Even though I'm of the opinion, if you rewatch the third season, you'll watch the demise of the show happen. David was writing about it, the backstage machinations that were happening. If you make Hurst, the man who was the head of the network at that point, and Swearengen is David, you'll see the struggle that David was going through. So with the show stopping the way that it did, it was like being cut off at the knees, man. And we didn't even get a chance to say goodbye to everyone. Right, of course. So usually when things wind down, when they're over, you know,

everybody comes to terms with it together, especially those shows that a family, you know, has been created from it. So being back with everybody in that space, you know, has, has been created from it. So being back with everybody in that space, um, you know, there are a few that have passed away. Um, there are a couple who are in very bad health. Um, so those things shattered it. So it wasn't just like all joy and wondrous, um, you know, air kisses. There was a lot of, being back there. Now, I had gone, I mean, I'm friends with the Valuzet family that own the ranch. So I've gone up and visited numerous times over the years. Actually, Dodge hired me for a truck ad and we shot it there. They wanted to shoot on the Deadwood set. So I've been there over time, but watching it come

back together. Now, the movie, it's 10 years later. So the town's quite different than it was when we did the film. Yeah. It's been through two fires by that point in real life. Fires and flood. There's been a lot of destruction. So yeah, it was a religious experience. And I don't say that facetiously. It was a religious experience. I could imagine. So getting back into it after 12 years off, I know that I'd read that Ian said he had a little bit of trouble getting back into his character for about the first week or so. And then, of course, he got back into the groove. Did you have any of those stumbling blocks as you were getting back into Dan Doherty?

Not really. I mean, I've aged 10 years. So is Dan. The design was, the idea is that it's not as wild and woolly. It's becoming a center of commerce. It's becoming a city. And that's what's happened. So some of the wild man excesses, the beast walking through the forest, which is how Dan described himself to Trixie back during the series. He's been civilized considerably. So no, there wasn't really a difficulty for me. Okay. Once the material's there, I mean, David's writing is – well, first of all, it's in meter.

It's like Shakespeare. It's in iambic pentameter. Once you get the language down, it carries you to a lot of those places that you have to go internally, emotionally, psychologically. No, it was just like an old pair of boots that had been in the back of the closet that you haven't had on for 10 years. You put them on and then you go for a 10-mile hike in them. That's what it was like. They still fit, and you can still make that hike. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and you kind of brought it up there. You brought up several things that I'm going to eventually touch on as we go through the interview, but one of them was, what's life been like for old Dan Doherty in Deadwood over the last 10 years that we've been gone, and we haven't been able to see him? Well, the character, I mean, I read him the real guy. I went to Deadwood and the Adams Museum and my friend Jerry, who worked there, he had pulled a lot of articles. We went back to

the original papers. So I know the story of the real guy. The fictional guy, he's just been working at the gym for 10 years. And thematically, it's really about the passing of generations, how we hand the baton off to the younger generation as we shuffle off this mortal coil. So a lot of it's with Dan just growing used to that. You know, Al has slowed down somewhat. But he still – Dan looks to Al for every decision that he makes. Well, the question pops up, what happens when Al's gone, when there is no Al? Right. So that's what Dan's going through because Al has aged and it's starting to show. Right. So seeing a weakness in Al, and I mean, in the series,

those weaknesses were passing. Right. Literally, the gleets. Yes, because she has Requiem. Yeah. So, you know, this is one that doesn't look like it's going to pass because he's getting old. Right. Of course. As we all do. Yeah. I won't dissect, as you mentioned before we turn on the mics, you know, I'm sure fans have dissected that teaser trailer up one side and down the other in every frame. And as I watched it a couple times, there was one little thing that caught me. I said, I wonder if what I'm hearing

maybe is part of just the delivery of that specific line or if maybe there's something else going on there. So I won't dive too much into it. I've said to a few fans who I've encountered, there are certain payoffs in the film. There are things that you wanted to see happen in the series. God damn it. You're going to get some payoff in the film, even though it's 10 years later. Things that you wanted to see happen, comeuppances, to be dished out.

You're going to get some of that. Not all of them, but some of them. Speaking to that, when the film was officially announced and you guys were actually going to do it, how many people did you have to fend off who desperately wanted to come to set and be a part of it this time around? There were a lot.

I can imagine. And I invited folks over the years if we ever get back. Sure. So there were people that came to visit. You know, when the series was happening, because it's a well-oiled machine, we're there every day. You know, it's a different circumstance with the movie because it's – now, we had most of the same crew and, you know, but the door wasn't – the door of welcome wasn't as widely open this time as it was during the series.

Right. Now, during the series, there was kind of musicians, because I'm a big music nut, and we had so many musicians doing cameos who would come out, and I'd say, all right, but you may have to play. Yeah, of course. That's a price. We had Billy and Dusty of ZZ Top. We're in the final episode there.

Lemmy Kilmister, Motorhead. Rodney Crowell came to visit, but there wasn't really anything going that day for him to play cowboy. So, yeah, in the film, it was because we weren't – it was a new production. And we had so much. We had some photographers sneaked onto the set and took photos. Really?

Like a paparazzi kind of photographer. Wow. So they were much more careful about who they allowed through the gates. Sure, of course. And since we're on that note, though, obviously a friend of yours who did make it was Jason Isbell. And you were just talking about him spending three days on set to be, I assume, kind of a background but have some kind of highlighted role. It's a featured background role. Yeah, so you guys –

He'll see himself when he watches the show. For sure. So you guys were treated to three days of him being on set. How was that? It was great. Well, I met him when we were doing the series when he was with the Drive-By Truckers. They played the House of Blues here. And Tracy, who was their publicist at the time, she's his manager now.

I've known her for years. And she invited me. She goes, oh, come up. The band wants to meet you. So I met Jason then. That was on, I think that was a Dirty South tour. So it was still a while. He was still in that band.

So we just kind of stayed in touch over the years. I think that was a Dirty South tour. So it was still a while. He was still in that band. Right, yeah. So we just kind of stayed in touch over the years. And now he's built this incredible career. And on the set, the way that happened is we have a mutual friend, Trey Crowder. I was about to say, the guys from the Little Red Comedies tour. Yes. Absolutely. I listen to their podcast too. Well, Jason, I forget where he and Trey Crowder. I was about to say, the guys from the Liberty Comedy Tour. Yes. Absolutely. I listen to their podcast too. Well, Jason,

I forget where he and Trey crossed paths, but Trey texted me and told me, he says, Jason was wondering who could he talk to about possibly being an extra on the show. Well, that's pretty fucking easy. Maybe me.

So I texted Jason. I said, I understand you're wondering who to talk to. That would be me. So we hooked it up. Now, on the show, well, David wrote it with Regina Corrado, worked with him, and his daughter Olivia worked with him. They're all big John Prine fans, and they didn't really know Jason's work, but huge John Prine fans. Now, Prine wanted to come visit, but he's on the road.

He's having more success than he's ever had with this Tree of Forgiveness. So I brought it up to Regina. She went, wait, what? John Prine? I said, yeah, but I don't think he's going to because he's busy. She went, I just took Tree of Forgiveness into the office and played it for David. Oh, my. John Prine watches Deadwood?

I went, yeah. Yes. So I said, well, Jason is a protege of John's. They're friends. And there were a couple of the actors who who knew jason's where sean sean bridgers of course huge fan yeah um well jason stays at the hotel near my house i took he rode out with me and the first morning i said you know i got some guitars there we sit around and play a lot he goes yeah i'd love to so first we go through get dressed, go through hair and makeup, and go on set.

And I brought, I got this old Harmony, and I got a K, or a Harmony guitar and a Martin. Anyway, we start playing. And Sean, it's just kind of the two of us. Just kind of, first song we sang, listen to Townes Van Zandt. There you go. We played Poncho and Lefty together. Okay. And then, you know, I mean, I'm okay.

I'm pretty good. He's chasing his way. You know, it's a whole other level. Gunsmoke's a pretty good Western. And then there's Deadwood. Yeah. So anyway, we start playing. Well, Sean asks for a song, this song.

Well, we look up, and there's suddenly like 15 people gathered around. It's a big, huge scene in the middle of the movie that encompasses almost all of the cast. So we played for half an hour or so, and it was funny. Tim walks up, and he said, oh, I heard you guys were playing. I've listened to your music. I have a request. Jason goes, oh, I heard you guys were playing. I've listened to your music. I have a request. Jason goes, yeah, what? Tim said, I'd like to hear that song you wrote about me.

You know, Olbafont. So Jason did Elephant. He did Elephant about three or four times in the course of the days. But anyway, our first little mini concert happens. And Keone Young started singing with us he sang a hawaiian cowboy and he sang we duetted on long black veil oh man leo king i didn't know cleo was a singer like come to find out she starred in ain't miss behaving on broadway she's a broadway singer my God. So she started singing gospel songs, and it was just this... The spirit that just encompassed... The spirit that was alive...

I wrote about this in an essay. When we made that show, the spirit was present, and it returned with the movie. And along with that and doing the table read for the film and making that music then I've never felt it stronger because everybody was a part and everybody was singing on choruses and stuff. So just a funny addendum to that, the first little session, about half an hour, we're about ready to shoot. So everybody's kind of going and getting their final touches and whatnot to do on the scene. Anna Gunn walks up. Okay. And she has her coffee and she says, oh, I understand you brought a friend with you today as a musician. I said, yeah, yeah, we were playing. She goes, oh, they were talking about in the makeup trailer how wonderful it was. They said that it was really good. I said, oh,

my buddy Jason's extraordinary. She goes, oh, that's your friend's name, Jason? I said, yeah. Oh, he's getting coffee. He's over at Crafty. She turns. He's about 15 feet away. She turns. Jason Isbell? Jason, that's your friend? I said, yeah. Jason Isbell was sitting here singing. I said, yeah. Oh, my God. She was just totally manderling. And then it was funny because he's a Deadwood fanatic, and Breaking Bad's probably his second favorite show. So it was just kind of funny to watch this kind of mutual fanning back and forth. Oh, my gosh.

So anyway, she had songs. She heard her songs over the course of those few days. I'm sure that's incredible. You just mentioned the spirit with which the show was made and the spirit that you guys felt when you were making the show. Do you think that's one of the major factors that the show resonated with fans and that they have stuck with it for this long? Beyond just the typical stuff that people like the dialogue and they like the moments and whatever else. But there has to be something deeper for fans to have clamored for this resurrection for 12 years.

David said, when Ricky Jay left us, I got Ricky's job in the writer's trailer. Okay. So I worked on the writing staff seasons two and three. Yeah. So I was around it 24 hours a day. It lived in my brain. But David always said, the star of this show is the community. Yes.

Deadwood. That's the star of this show. It's about how we as individuals cleave together and form community out of chaos. That's what happened with us, which made the stoppage of it so difficult is because we had formed this really strong and tight-knit community, and it just stopped. So, yeah. And as I said of Deadwood, you don't have to have a degree in comparative literature to enjoy it. Right. Because there's fans all over the maps. If you have that degree and you get a lot of the illusions that are in the material, there's whole different layers and levels to that show. And that's why it stands up to re-watching.

I'm still – I've re-watched it – I've watched it three times in its entirety, re-watched. I'm about to start another one. I've watched pieces of it. Right. I still pick up things. Oh, shit. I didn't watched pieces of it. Right. I still pick up things. Oh, shit. I didn't even think about it that way. So the flip to that is no matter the type of fan watching, you could not passively watch Deadwood.

No. You'd get lost. It required your focus. Yeah. And it required your brain and your spirit and everything to be focused or you would be lost. So that's why I think the fandom, those people that put themselves there, they put a piece of themselves into watching. You know, I love entertainment. There's a lot of those Western stuff that I grew up on.

Yeah. I watch Bonanzas. If I'm at home in the afternoon, MeTV and Bonanzas on, I'm probably going to watch. Every time I go to my mom's house, it is. Yes. 100%. There's not really a comparing Deadwood to Bonanza, except they're both odors. But you can passively watch those.

They're easy stories. Yeah. They're easily digestible. It's like comparing Louis L'Amour to Larry McMurtry. There's a difference in the level of writing in those books. So that's why Deadwood had such a loyal fan base and clamoring for some sense of closure on it. Well, and you just touched on something that has been stuck in my head since I just re-watched the whole series again, anyway, in preparation for this interview

and for actually going to Deadwood in the next few weeks. And it's not like that's a crazy occurrence for me. I watch it probably once a year just to escape back into that world. I love the show. It's my favorite. So I just get back into it regardless.

But that was the thing that struck me this watching was the sense of community as I started to compare Deadwood, the TV show, to other shows that are being produced now that I still enjoy. which is great. It's like an eight-hour movie, but all the characters are moving in the same direction, usually with one big goal in mind. We all have to accomplish this big thing, and we all have our interpersonal relationships and our paths that we're going to take to get there. And Deadwood didn't have that. It was just the storylines that affected the community and the people and how they interacted with each other. And it was still just as fascinating and just as interesting and just as enthralling as something that has a big giant plot that has to be fulfilled by the end. It's just like an old pair of boots that have been in the back of the closet

that you haven't had on for 10 years and you put them on and then you go for a 10-mile hike in them. Yeah. And that's why some of his shows, not Deadwood, but there are some of the shows that kind of could go down the rabbit hole in that kind of lack of plot. Now, I will say with the film, there is a plot. I would assume.

And it's kind of at the fore. That makes the storytelling easier because you're having the plot. Yeah, exactly. Yes. But to maintain that kind of interest, David knew sort of where the story was going to go. Right. This is fascinating. Yeah, exactly. Yes. Because – but to maintain that kind of interest. David knew sort of where the story was going to go. Right. This is fascinating.

Yeah. You know, I can't myself in writing – I have it plotted, and I usually have something plotted, literally written down plotted. Yeah, we do. Before I dive in. No, David didn't. And he loved to see just kind of where it was going to take him. Before I dive in. No, David didn't. And he loved to see just kind of where it was going to take him. And there were elements.

Again, when I talk about David, David is a genius. And I've encountered very few intellects in my life at that level that are that damn smart. Right. at that level that work that are that damn smart. Right. Coupled with David is there is this emotional intelligence, this understanding of he sees who you are and he sees you at your core and he sees all the cracks. Yeah. You know, he wants to fill in those cracks. He wants to repair them. You know, that makes him sound like some sort of sandal-wearing guru, and he's the polar opposite of that because he has a self-destructive streak a mile wide. He's lived his life that way. So he's an individual unlike anybody I've ever met, hence this show. He is the alpha and the omega of this show.

Now, you mentioned the plotting. It's funny. I worked on True Detective in season two, the season that people didn't like. Yeah. Unfortunately. But Nick Pizzolatto, we were talking about it. David is the only living writer that Nick idolizes. And they were put together.

David kind of oversaw this third season. For season three, yeah. You know, with Nick. But Nick said this first, and it really struck with me. He was talking about movies and television, and he said, you know, this standard trope in Hollywood that superhero movies kill the movies, meaning smart, intelligent films that have a decent budget. You still find them. They're still made. They're indie films. Yeah, exactly. But a film with a big budget that comes along that's thought-provoking, and those are few and far between. Yes. You know, you compare it to Hollywood of the 70s, where there were a lot of those kind of films made.

But Nick was saying, you know, the standard thought is superheroes kill those movies. They didn't kill those movies. The Sopranos killed those movies. Because a viewer realized that you could have this immersive, incredibly intelligent and involving story, and you can have 12 hours of it. Whereas a movie, you know, even the long ones are two and a half hours long. He said it's like comparing a great novel to a great short story. You know, there's greatness in both, but the novel sucks you in much, much deeper. Right.

And he said that was The Sopranos was the first really challenging, intriguing series that lasted that period. And Deadwood followed in its wake. I'm in the middle of a Sopranos rewatch right now. I am desperately. I'm way overdue for mine. I just bought the Sopranos Sessions book.

Matt Zeitz and I think Alan Sepinwall worked on it about the Sopranos. So I'm like rewatching it, and then I'm going to read their book. Yeah, that was the insane era of HBO with the Sopranos, and then The Wire came in, and then Deadwood, all just back to back to back. And that changed the world. They set that bar. Yeah.

And what they recognized, and I put a lot of credit to Carolyn Strauss, because she was kind of at the creative helm at that point. Okay, yeah. I don't think she had green light power, but she steered a lot of those great shows. But her and the folks she worked with, they recognized great writers. Right. And the issue with a lot of things, you know, in television, especially in some with film, it's creation by committee, you know, and everybody wants to do what's been successful or they want to sand off the rough edges and they want to – and everything

just gets watered down. Yeah. And it becomes this kind of – To peel the masses. Yeah. Everything's kind of the same and kind of – I've been on shows. I've done pilots like that where we had something really – I'm thinking of one in particular that I'm not going to name or the network or anything, but we had something really biting and unique,

and they sanded off every fucking rough edge until by the time we actually filmed it, like, the show lost its bite. Well, Carolyn and those folks at HBO at that time, A, had the ability to recognize this is a great writer with a unique vision. You know, David Chase. So you had to be named David, apparently. Yeah, the Davids. Yeah.

David Chase, David Simon, David Milch. And, okay, what story are we telling? This is the story. Here's your money. Go tell it. Now, if there was a problem, there were on a couple of their shows, their B-level shows, really, that the network did step in and kind of say, all right, we got to guide this runaway train. But with the three Davids, they let him alone. And hence, we had Deadwood and Sopranos and The Wire. Yeah, and you're right. Man, that's a great revelation from Nick that, yeah, the Sopranos, the realization by the audience

that we can have 12 times this amount, we can have this same package over a space of 8 or 10 or 12 episodes. Yeah, we would prefer that. You know, binge-watching came into vogue with those box sets, with HBO. Because, first of all, releasing TV on home video and HBO at the forefront with those. And I think that was the seed that became what's now standard, binge watching through streaming. Yeah. people that raised the level, the bar of artistic success so high and created a new audience for television.

Yeah, well, and that's clearly why I spend far, far less time in the theater and far more time on the couch sifting, trying to find those new shows. Absolutely. Well, it's sticking with – you touched on a couple different things about the movie and about the whole experience that I want to get back to. One that's both the reunion of the cast and then, of course, the obvious holes that were there. But another thing you had mentioned when it happened was the table read. Yeah. Was that the first time that the entire cast had been back together? Yes. Was that the initial day of the reunion?

Everyone wasn't there because of other commitments. So not the entire cast was there. But yes, that was the first time we'd all been in the same room. Right. So as most of the cast was back together and you were feeling this reunion, both of who was there and who wasn't there, was there a moment where you had to look around and go, I can't believe this is real? That it's actually come to pass? Was it like a dream that, oh my God, this is actually happening again? Every passing second that I was in that room.

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And we all got there. Fortnite for free. Rated ESRB E10+. We all got there, and Robin, Robin and I are friends. We play poker together. Robin Weiger. Yeah, she's incredible. The tables were in a big horseshoe. Okay. There were 50 or 60 people in that room

between the actors and a lot of folks. Robin and I were sitting right across from one another, like you and I are. folks. Robin and I were sitting right across from one another. Okay. Like you and I are. Yep. Right at the moment. And without giving much away, the first line is hers.

Okay. And it is an acknowledgment of the passage of time. And so we all sit at the table, and Robin, we have the – I think Greg Feinberg read the – he's the producer. Okay. I think he read the stage directions. Okay. You know, exterior, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Yeah. And then Jane speaks. And Robin, she started to speak, and she got choked up. And she looked up – we made eye contact, and she got choked up. And she looked up. We made eye contact and I got choked up. And she closed her eyes. She took a deep breath. She read every word of that opening sentence.

And then she became Jane. You know, and that was the moment. That was the moment that you felt the spirit through the room, you know, just we're back. And she carried it. But again, she had to forcibly get that first sentence out. But it carried the weight of the story that we're telling. It carried the weight of the moment that we were living. You just answered the very next question that I had written down because I guessed that something like that would have happened, that when you guys all got back together and everybody had their first lines and you had to be those characters again,

there had to be moments of laughter at some points. But I was going to ask, did someone laugh or get choked up when they had to say their first line? Well, I said, I think I wrote about it in that essay. What I vividly remember, because I had my eyes closed because I'm like, fuck it, I can't start crying. Don't start crying. God damn it, don't cry. And as we made eye contact, as she's reading that first sentence, and I could hear, it was Kleenex being pulled out of the box

because everybody was reaching for fucking Kleenexes. Because I'm sitting there with my eyes closed trying to focus on listening to Robin and my brain for a split second, what the hell is that sound? It was the sound of 18 people all reaching for Kleenex boxes at the same time. Oh, my God. That's amazing. Robin's transformation into the character of Calamity Jane. She's nothing like Jane.

Exactly. I've seen her in other roles. Obviously, certainly afterwards, as you mentioned earlier, this show is such a springboard for everyone to go on to so many great things. And many of you ended up on the same shows afterwards like Sons of Anarchy and Justified that all came later. But did anyone

go through a transformation like that? I guess here's the dumb, obvious question. How amazing of an actress is Robin Weiger to be able to make that transformation? And I'm always giving her guff about it. I think she's starting to believe me. She got cast once in this film with this very well-known actress who is an amazing actor and a big, huge movie star.

I'm not naming any names. Nothing negative on any of them. But Robin was cast, and she was so excited. So excited. I'm working naming any names, but she was – nothing negative on any of them. But Robin was cast, and she was so excited, so excited. I'm working with her. I said, yeah, but that's awesome, but you're as good as she is. I said, you're as good an actress as she is. She's extraordinary, yeah, but you can go toe-to-toe with her. So she didn't see that in herself.

Oh, man. Deadwood was one of her early things on film. I think she'd done a couple of small things. Yeah. But I remember my introduction to her was, oh, gosh. I think it was the scene where Al – well, I know the scene. We may have had something together before. We may have shot something earlier.

But this was the first time she and I spoke off camera. It's where he sends Dan to go kill the little girl, go check on her at Doc's. And Calamity is standing on the corner there where the Bella Union becomes, and she's talking to somebody. And she sees me walking around the corner, and she makes some snide comment. Well, we're shooting. We're doing this tracking shot of me coming around the corner. And, of course, someone made a meme out of it. I found it on the internet.

It's a gif of Doherty at that point and the look in his eyes. As I'm going to – because I don't like the idea that I'm being sent to murder a child. Well, Robin, she goes, oh, my God, Earl, you're so amazing. The look on your eye when you come. Now, it's a tracking, a wide tracking shot. I went, yeah, I'll show you the secret. And I pull out this chapstick of menthol.

And that's my trade secret. And she went, what? I said, little dab of this right there in the corner of the eye makes your eyes pop. She looked at me like I had farted in church. Like I was the biggest hack in the world, you know, cheating. You did retreat mentally into a dark place to fuel it i do well that that but there was that moment we spoke later um because this this was just the exterior we did the actual interior in the cabin that was on a sound stage right where i'm staying

doc's interior cabin but i told her later i said what you got to realize is we shoot a lot. And when you're in a wide shot like this, save the emotional turmoil crap for the closeups. Right. You know, that's when you really dig into your Pandora's box, because if you do it in the wide shots, when it really comes time, your Pandora's box might be empty. Yeah. You used it up. So, but I'll never, I mean, I've teased her about it, that look on her face because she's like, oh my god, you're such an artist, you're such a you're a total fucking hack, you cheater.

So, yeah. Menthol, menthol. Menthol, always. Remember it. Well, so this goes to another question that I do want to talk a little bit about. A couple people who were not able to be there, of course, Powers Booth and Ralph Richardson had passed on, and that's able to be there. Of course, Powers Booth and Ralph Richeson had passed on. Richeson was there.

He's in the dirt. Is he? Yeah. He's scattered. His ashes are scattered there. You're kidding. No, I'm not kidding. Oh, my God.

There was a memorial service for him up there, and Jim Beaver and I went. And Ralph's ashes are scattered there on the back lot. Oh, talk about an emotional, heartwarming moment. I had no idea. But for me, that's going to be the biggest hole. There's going to be a Richardson-shaped hole in the production at some point. I vividly remember the moment that Richardson became a character. I want to say it was early season two,

but I'm standing next to the monitors. We were shooting at night. I'm standing next to David Milch, and he's watching a playback, a video playback of something we've shot. He says, pause that, pause. Who's that guy? I said, I think his name's Ralph.

Is he a regular? I said, yeah, he's one of the regular because we had a crew of a couple of dozen of the same people yeah the extra yeah i'm pretty sure he's a i've seen him i've met him because he can act he's got that hang dog look that that guy can act because he just saw something natural in ralph's you know demeanor on camera so dave walks he goes where is he i, I think he's over there. Dave walked over to him. I'm David Milch. I'm the writer here on the show. And I was just wondering, who are you? Well, my name is Ralph. No, no, no, no, no. Who are you in the context of this story

that we're telling? That's the question you need to ask yourself. I want you to write two or three pages, just a background of who this guy is and how he came here. Now, David did that with other people. I never saw what Ralph wrote, David, but that was the seed that became Richardson. And I think with Dave, it was kind of the idea that, you know, EB is kind of a Shakespearean fool. Well, the fool having a whipping dog, that's what it boiled down to. But then you get down to the core and Richeson is actually much wiser, not intelligent, but he's wise. So it was birthed in that. And that was – Ralph was just such a sweet – he was an old 60s hippie that just kind of – he'd always wanted to be an actor.

Yeah. Kind of on the periphery in Hollywood. And I think he kind of drifted around some as a young man. And that's the background actor's dream come true. Yeah. That – and it never happens. I mean, I can't think of another instance of anything I've ever worked on of where that's happened, of where someone in the background becomes a character, a featured character. Not just,

you got a line or two. I've seen bumps happen where, all right, we need somebody to fill in the space here. Say something about the body. You, you. So they get a bump. I've seen that happen, but not where it becomes a beloved character in the show. So Ralph, he had cancer and he was in hospice. He was staying with friends of his. And the background guys all stayed in touch through social media. And they kind of put out the clarion call of a memorial for Ralph. Okay. So Jim and I were free and in town, and we went. And it was there at Melody Ranch.

And that was his wish because he had said that was his favorite part of his whole life. Man. he had said that was his favorite part of his whole life, was his time spent there as a part of that story with those people. So the Valuzet family agreed that Ralph could stay there. Is there any kind of little marker memorials that people know, or just if you were there, you know where the spot is? I don't know exactly where myself I don't know exactly where myself. We didn't. It was done after the memorial service. Okay. But I do know his ashes are there on the lot. That's fantastic.

Gene Autry's horse is buried there. I didn't know that. Yep. Champs. There is a marker for Champ right outside the original soundstage. That's why Gene kept that property. He owned the entire valley at one point, from what I'm told. And he built that back lot there. Now, the back lot was there. Gene bought it. I found out it was there before Gene, but he bought it. Those early Gene Autry shows and

stuff were shot there. Oh, my gosh. I didn't realize that. And then he kept it for Champ lived there. And there was a house that still has a lot of Gene's stuff in it. Gene would go out, and that's where Champ lived. So when Champ died, and a fire came through and burnt the back lot. I think that was after Champ. And then the Valuzet family were friends of his, and they bought it from Gene and rebuilt the back lot exactly. Those storefronts were built to match Gene's old place. Oh, my gosh.

But yes, Champ is buried there. So this is a question, again, as I was re-watching again, I picked up on this, again, sticking with the E.B., Farnham, and Richardson relationship. when you get into seasons two and three of the show, that David was trying to find opportunities for the two of them to have a scene together every episode or every couple episodes so that E.B. could find some new creative way to insult Richardson. And it'd be, of course, a little tragic,

but obviously hilarious at the same time. And it became like a running gag as I watched it. Like, oh my God, every other episode, there's a great scene with Richardson and E.B. where E.B.'s coming up with some new— Tell me, Richardson, did you crawl from the muck, or were you egg-hatched, as I've always suspected? I'm filling it with rocks.

Like, I imagine the pool that spawned you, and I'm filling it with rocks. Like, all these different—he just finds new ways. I didn't know if, like, this has to be one goal. Every couple episodes— I don't think it was a conscious goal, no. But, yeah, you know. It naturally developed throughout the show. But that,

it's that wisdom of the put upon. It's the same thing with Jewel. I mean, I don't know if you know the story of how Jerry... I know that I've heard it at some points, but I certainly couldn't hurt for having a refresher. She had had, because, you know, she's had to deal with cerebral palsy her entire life.

And she'd had a neck surgery, a serious one. And she said, I was in horrible pain. And she said, I was out of pain pills. And I'm at the drugstore waiting for them to fill the prescription. David's standing next to her. He said, excuse me, Harry. Aren't you an actor or a comedian? Yeah, I'm Jerry Jewell.

And he said, yeah, I'm David Milch. I'm creating a Western for HBO. It's called Deadwood. And would you be interested in doing a Western? And I tell it the way she tells the story. She says, it may come as a surprise to you, David, but I'm not really good on a horse. And hence was the birth of Jewel. So she brought her down for a meeting. She tells the story. If you've not read her book, it's wonderful.

She has a whole chapter in her book on this story. But his creation of that character, the literary creation and the genius of it, Al's weakness in the way he views the world, pain or damage or beating don't end the world. The world ends when you're dead until then stand up like a man and give some back. That's his view of the world. His Achilles heel is the fact that at his core, he cares. He genuinely loves those people around him. He loves that community that he's developing. He can never admit that to himself. And the greatest manifestation of that is his relationship with her. Because it's told in the story, he goes back to the orphanage where he grew up and he buys girls as prostitutes from the orphanage. He bought her. He paid her off. Knowing her physicality, she's not going to be a productive worker in a normal sense. But he knew what hell her life was going to be if she was stuck there.

So that was his way of rescuing her. He can't admit that. He can't let that show. So his behavior toward her is so incredibly abusive. He's always calling her names and degrading her. The genius in it is she recognizes it. She recognizes why he behaves that way toward her. And she's got balls bigger than anybody.

And she don't take it. She stands up to him in a humorous way. That's the genius of that character. And that sort of detail in every single character, that's what makes the show what it was. And what we're all hoping to see from the movie. And now we're winding down on our timer. So I want to ask two more quick questions about the movie. And then I do want to – I have to ask a couple of questions about your band. And then I do want to, I'd have to ask a couple of questions about your band who I'm actually,

the listeners are not going to hear this for a couple more months when we have to re-record it, but I am going to see your band tomorrow night as you guys are, you guys are beginning a series of shows. So we all want to talk about that very briefly, but as we wrap up the discussion of Deadwood in the movie, as much as you're able to, can you walk us through the different variations and versions of some kind of conclusion project for Deadwood that have happened over the years?

Obviously, you guys ended thinking we're going to have a season four. And then maybe there were rumors of a couple movies and then a movie. And maybe probably the movie then evolved as time passed. As conceived, as was spoken to me, in subsequent interviews, there's been some revisionism on it. But David always said to me, I have five years in mind, five seasons. Right. I did read that. And the idea sort of being it's kind of Old Testament judgment on Sodom and Gomorrah, on the sins of the era.

Because the flood happened and then the fire happened. And season four was going to be the flood. I mean, it was designed. I saw the designs. Maria Caso had come up with a way that we could do it and flood that and make it look like the entire city is flooded. Well, we got cut off at the knees. It never happened. Right.

So, Dave, there's a great – well, there's a couple of great books. The Revolution was televised by Seppenwald and Difficult Men. Ooh, I can't remember when that one's by. But they both touch on this story somewhat. And they interview the guy who was running the network at the time, the guy who actually swung the ax on us. And they interviewed Dave. But Dave was offered, they wanted to cut the budget in half. He was desperate to, we were massively expensive and we were way over budget. And he was trying to rein in some of the

costs. Now, I will say the way that we made it is what another element that makes it so special. But he was trying to rein in costs. And so he wanted to cut the budget in half. And he offered Dave either six episodes, a half a season, or two two-hour movies to wrap up the story. To quote David, it's not the way we tell our fucking story, and I refuse to end it that fucking way. And so he said no. He made an all-in poker move. Okay. And, you know, when you got the aces up your sleeve, somebody goes in all against you, they're fucked. We were fucked. So a few years later,

John from Cincinnati did not, you know, he came and went. And then luck was happening. Yep. That was a story very near to Dave's heart about horses. Yes. He loves, you know, he was a big investor and owned several horses. Yeah. It ended up being a difficult situation, putting him with producer-director that those two guys couldn't be in the same room together. Oh, okay.

But the advance on Luck was good, and his deal was up with HBO. So he was wanting to negotiate. As part of it, he wants to revisit Deadwood. I want to do those two movies. So this was probably five years after we were off the air. He and I met for lunch. We met twice and talked about them. Basically, writing with David, principally, especially for me, you're just kind of the sounding board for ideas. And so we met twice and talked about, to my way of thinking, it was going to be Deadwood

the Flood, Deadwood the Fire. As the two movie, gotcha. Yeah. So that they're kind of companion films and they never went anywhere. As for whatever backstage politics machinations went on, there's all sorts of stories. They're touched upon in those books that I mentioned. Matt Zeitz is actually writing right now a book about Deadwood. Oh, man. Matt Zoller-Zeitz. So I'm not sure when he's publishing.

So he will probably dig deeper into this. But anyway, it didn't happen. And I thought, well, that's it. We'll never see the light of day. That's when I finally gave up beating the dead horse. And so years later, doing True Detective, we talked a lot about it with Nick. There was another project that David had written, and Nick was wondering whatever happened to it. So I emailed David's wife. David doesn't have an email. He will not

touch a computer. So I emailed Rita, and I said, whatever happened to this project? Is it going to happen? Well, I didn't hear back from her immediately. And I remember this vividly I was had just left 10,000 wave spa above Santa Fe New Mexico I was shooting the pilot for preacher in Albuquerque right yeah and I had a day off so I drove up 10,000 waves and got the full-on massage and so I'm feeling real good and there's no cell service up there so I'm coming down the mountain from 10,000 waves and turn on, I have a message from Rita Milch. Oh, what? So I hit, you know, on speakerphone. Yeah, it's Rita. You know, it's funny, that project is not moving forward. But it's funny to, we just got off the phone with HBO. David's been hired to adapt this. There's a book to adapt this novel. And there is a very good chance that we are returning to the Muddy Thoroughfare. my wife up there. We were back in Albuquerque last summer.

We went up 10,000 waves. And I said, I pulled over and went, this is the spot. Right here is the spot where I found out Deadwood was coming back. Oh, man. That tells you how long ago Preacher is now starting their fourth season of production. Yeah.

That was the pilot of Preacher, so that would have been four years ago, maybe five. Let's see. I shot that series in – so that would have been 15. It was four years ago. Okay, yeah. So that's how long.

And so there's been numerous scripts written. Of course. And Dave worked constantly on it, polishing, changing. Worked constantly on it, polishing, changing. I have an early draft of the script that she sent me a year and a half ago or so. I remember it. I read it on an airplane. Rita sent it to me.

She said, things look positive. However, Dave wanted you to have this just in case it doesn't see the light of day. So I have an early version of the script. And I sat there on Southwest Airlines flying back from Nashville crying because it was like being back with family and friends that you hadn't seen in years. And the difficulties and some difficult things happen in the movie. I'm not going to go further than that, but some things happen that will choke you up in the story itself. So that was the – and so a year and a half after that,

two years after that, we made a movie. God, now I don't want to wait two months. Luckily for the listeners who are going to hear this, they're only going to be a couple days away from the movie. I now have to sit with this for a couple more months. And who knows, maybe I'll have to dive back into the series for yet another watching. But that'll wrap up the stuff about the Deadwood movie. But like I said, I do want to talk about your band really quick

as we finish up our time here. Because like I said, I am going to see you guys. If I have this right, you're beginning a monthly show at Molly Malone's in West Hollywood? Yes. And, of course, as I just said, we are recording this at the end of March. You're about to play your first show of that series, right? We played there. We got – that band evolved out of Deadwood. Yes, exactly. I want to hear a little bit about that.

When I turned 40, right, when we were going back into series, and we had a – my wife rented the Cat Club on the Sunset Strip to celebrate my 40th birthday party. So we're going to have a big hoo-ha. And I hired a band, these hard rock guys I knew. They were going to play. And my buddy Pete, I introduced him to country music. He never listened to country until we made a movie together that he directed. Long story, but I realized i recognized his band

they mtv's basement tapes in the 80s that was his band he wrote the songs he gained 100 pounds and cut his hair from the time i remember him from mtv but that was pete and i introduced him to country and bluegrass and we'd sit around and play songs for one another and he's a much better guitar player than i am anyway we had the cat club pete said i got a And he's a much better guitar player than I am. Anyway, we had the Cat Club. Pete said, I got a buddy that's a really good rock drummer. Do you know a bassist? Maybe we could play the party. That's how it started.

Yeah. We went, well, so we did. We wrote a song together. We played all covers at that point. And end of season two of Deadwood, the band was kind of inactive. We hadn't played in months. We'd rented the Cat Club. Well, the producer of the show, Feinberg, he said, you know, you and Hawks, if you guys want to bring your bands and play the House of Blues at our rap party, I met this background player, a regular background guy, Mike Johnstone.

I bought a new Martin and I come up and he starts talking like, oh, you play? Well, he's way better than me. He's a pedal steel player, but like played for years, played with Leon Russell for 15 years. Oh, man. Like he's a player player. Yeah. So I said, you want to come to the rap party? Well, I'm in the background.

I said, I know how you can. My band is playing. I love country music. Country music needs pedal steel. So then I invited Ralph. So we became, that was the birth of the band. So it came at the rap party. Well, it was a band and the, I'm the weakest musician in the whole group, hands down. I'm the best singer, but I'm the weakest musician. Anyway, we started – we became a band, and we made our way to – we played stagecoach in 09. Yeah, I read about that. And the band that played before us, nobody had heard of those guys.

I don't know whatever happened to the Zac Brown band. So anyway, it was promoted as the guy from Deadwood. Well, Deadwood was over, and that was at the point that I'd let it go, like this is never going to happen again. This was in 2009. And I had the money together to make a movie with a partner of mine, Shane Taylor. We shot with Chris Christopherson starring. Bloodworth, right? Yeah, Bloodworth.

And I could not commit to gigs. I just – I can't. If I commit to something, if we're making $200 to playing a bar, I got to be there. Well, I said, I can't do this right now. So it mothballed. So we go from the peak, like we were at the point of being a band band. And then I pulled the plug. So for the last five years, we've been talking about, we're going to get the band back together. We're on a mission from God. And we finally did. Right before Deadwood movies started, we played the Federal.

Yep, yep. And then with Hawks. With John Hawks. And so we used to do all during production of Deadwood season three, we did a monthly at the knitting factory here. We called it the Deadwood Quilting Bee at the knitting factory. And so now we did Molly Malone's in December, and they invited us to have a monthly. Come back every month. It's the Whoopin' Holler, the last Saturday of every month.

Is John planning to be involved in each one, or is it just this? He is. Oh, fantastic. You're both going to be there. So as I was reading a little bit about this, I saw some references to maybe an EP that you guys might possibly be working on, to more Deadwood ties. We made a record back then. We recorded it here, we mixed it at Blackbird

in Nashville, the big studio. A promoter, a radio guy, big huge Deadwood nut, he saw us back then and he's always been, he had the idea, because we have a few songs that are based on Deadwood.

Now, it's an Americana band because I love 70s hard rock and I love heavy metal. Yeah. And I love country country. And it's kind of this amalgamation. It's Motley Cruegrass, if you will. So that's kind of what we do. But anyway, Bob, he had the idea. He said, why don't you take those songs that were either specifically about the show and create an EP? So we have six songs that are either based directly

on something within the show or were written during that time period. And so we are in the midst of doing that right now. So you're working on that. We'll get to see that eventually here. Yeah. Sacred Cowboys. Yeah. Sacred Cowboys is the band. If you're in the Los Angeles area, and I know that we have a decent listenership here in California, and there's a couple big fans of this podcast who live, I believe, in the Riverside area. So I'm like telling you guys, Bob, definitely make it out here. If you can make it. Drive into Malino Lones. Now, if you Google Sacred Cowboys, now, we didn't know this. We thought we were completely original in that name.

If you Google Sacred Cowboys and a photo comes up of these really scrawny punks with black eyeliner, dressed all in black, that's not us. No. Keep scrolling. We're a Costco-sized band, both in number and physicality. We're not skinny punks from Australia from the 1980s. No, absolutely not. I did look at that and go, what if they take this picture at one point? Damn, Earl gained a lot of weight.

I looked at it. This can't be right. But I know I saw the site at some point. This is obviously incorrect. Something's wrong here. So Bob out in Riverside and Jake in Orange County, if you guys can make it up Something's wrong here. So yeah, so Bob out in Riverside and Jake in Orange County, if you guys can make it up here, come here. Is it going to be toward the end of the month? The last Saturday of every month. One of those months we have to do a Friday night due to

a scheduling issue, but follow Sacred Cowboys on all the sacred media, social media, and it'll be up there. We're going to pick up some other gigs. We've had things the possibility stuff this summer but I have a show that's taking me to North Carolina. So we're kind of back in that basket of my day job comes first. We're going to be doing more than

just those but we do that monthly standing gig. We'll last for the foreseeable future. Fantastic. So there will be plenty of chances for Deadwood fans and Sacred Cowboys fans to unite and meet at Molly Malone's for a beverage and some awesome music. All right, well, thank you very much. We appreciate your time.

Thanks for listening. As always, if you like the show, please give it a rating and a review on iTunes or wherever you're listening. You can check out our website, blackbarrelmedia.com, for more details, and follow us on social media for news of the show. Our Facebook page is Legends of the Old West Podcast, and our handles on Twitter and Instagram are at Old West Podcast. Thanks again. We'll see you soon.