Let's Find Common Ground - Reforming politics: Civility, Compromise and Common Ground. Amy Dacey and Pearce Godwin

Episode Date: September 24, 2020

More than 8 out of 10 Americans think the country is divided, and a large majority says public debate has gotten worse in recent years. A recent survey found most voters agree that significant changes are needed in the fundamental design and structure of American government to make it work for current times.  In this episode, we explore the urgent need for common ground with Amy Dacey, Executive Director of the Sine Institute of Policy & Politics at American University, and Pearce Godwin, CEO of Listen First Project, and a leading member of Weaving Community.  During the 2016 presidential election, Amy served as the Chief Executive Officer of the Democratic National Committee. She has managed national organizations and advised leading elected officials and candidates, including President Barack Obama and Senator John Kerry. Pearce is from a conservative political background, and formerly worked as an aide in the House and Senate and for Republican Party campaigns. We speak with both of them about the new Common Ground Scorecard, which rates candidates and elected officials on their ability to reach out beyond their base and engage with voters and other elected officials who come from another party or viewpoint.

More than eight in ten Americans think the country is divided, and the number has been going up in recent years. Most of us agree that significant changes are needed in the fundamental design and structure of American government to make it work for the current times. In this episode, why we need civility, compromise, and common ground. in civility, compromise, and common ground. I'm Ashley Milntite. And I'm Richard Davies. This is Let's Find Common Ground.

Today, two guests, one liberal, the other conservative, who are both working to reform American politics. Amy Dacey is Executive Director of the Sign Institute of Policy and Politics at American University. She's managed national organizations and advised leading elected officials and candidates, including President Obama and Senator John Kerry. Pierce Godwin is CEO of Listen First Project and a leading member of weaving community. In his former life, Pierce worked for Republicans

in the House and Senate, and also on GOP campaign initiatives. Amy, let's start with a simple but important question. Why do we need to find common ground? Well, it's the so many people are counting on not only people who are involved in public service, but in other sectors to find solutions to some of our largest problems. We've been able to come together in the past to do that on key issues. And that's what really has to happen to solve some of the biggest problems of today. How are we going to get on the other side of a big huge global pandemic that everyone is trying to understand and move forward from? How are we going to get through this financial crisis that has a lot of ramifications?

And then also globally, I mean, we are not an isolated country that doesn't have to deal with international leaders. And so it all matters. And it matters not just in the public. It matters in everybody's personal life. And Pierce, what do you think? Yeah, I think about the fact that from this 250 years America has been this great experiment,

aspiring at our best to be that shining city upon a hill, yet in recent decades, years, and certainly months, I think many of us have this wrenching feeling that the American experiment may be failing before our eyes. And as Amy said, it's at so many levels. You know, these days I'm most focused on that interpersonal level and the cultural frame we're seeing in our social fabric that in some ways is fed by and also feeds in this circular relationship, the gridlock and the inability of us in a political space and a governing space

to work together with one another in a way that can, indeed, overcome our greatest challenges, including this pandemic. We're ripping ourselves apart, and I think it starts at the personal individual level, but is indeed grinding Washington to a halt in a way that's not serving anyone well. Pierce, you and Amy have both come from different political backgrounds.

Let's start with you, Amy. During the 2016 presidential election campaign, you served as chief executive officer of the Democratic National Committee. You've been deeply involved in party politics. Have you changed your mind or do you just think that America has a hyper partisan crisis today? Well, I mean, I have been involved in party politics most of my life, but I was also involved in a household that champion talking about issues,

talking about current events, was not only celebrated, it was expected. And I think over the course of time, yes, I've been affiliated with a certain party because I think it shared my values, but I've seen the division in that. I also worked on the hill. I worked for a congresswoman Louise Slaughter, and all the time she was talking to the Republican, sure there was division on things, but she would at least go in to talk to our colleagues.

I do think that at our core, politics is about differences. I mean, we're in a national campaign environment, whether it's a primary or a general election, campaigns are designed to say what is different about these two candidates, which one is the better path. It's about when we come together. There is a difference between campaigning and governing, and what we've seen is the division we've seen in campaigns is around rampant in the division we see in governing. And that's really what has to change is because you can't have that same rhetoric narrative

that's happening in the campaigns moving to governing. The other thing that I think is really important is that when you're elected, you represent every constituent in your district. Not just the ones that when you're elected, you represent every constituent in your district. Not just the ones that elected you. And I think this is a big part about helping public officials realize that when they become an elected official, when they are representing their constituency,

it's for people that voted for you and it's for people that didn't vote for you. So it is your responsibility to hear all those ideas and to make decisions that's best for the community. Pius, you come from a more conservative background. How did you get involved in the movement to better listen to people and bring back the civility we now largely lack? Right, Amy and I share some experience on the Hill. I didn't know what I wanted to do when I grew up after I graduated with a public policy degree, but had always been drawn to politics. I used to joke.

It was my third favorite sport. And so, indeed, I went up there after college and was fortunate to spend some time on the U.S. Senate, had interned on both sides of the hill. Was this for a conservative peers? Yes, it was for U.S. Senator Elizabeth Dole. And the summer before had interned in Senator Dole's office and then also in my Republican Congresswoman Virginia Fox and the mountains fifth district of North Carolina But in 2013 I decided it was time for me to head back home to North Carolina

But in the meantime, I really felt a desire to do something that felt, you know, bigger than myself More of service than kind of my own self-promotion and striving that I was all too good a fit for in BC. So actually went over to Uganda for six months in Africa, and that's where my journey began. For these past seven years, I've had been more driven to mend our freight social fabric than champion any particular party or candidate. We know when you look at national surveys, it seems most Americans don't want this rank to continue. They do want to be able to have civil conversations with the other side.

Okay, so then why does it feel like we can't at the personal level? Why does it so often get off the rails? Well, I mean, I think in a lot of respects, one of the biggest challenges is we might disagree on some of the big topics, but we can find nuances in some of the smaller subsets of this and we don't go there. We immediately go, you want this, you want that. And I think too often we use the pro-con language.

So you're either for healthcare, for the ACA or you're against it, or you're for immigration or you're against it. And what we don't talk about is the different policy stances within. And sometimes you can find common ground within them. I think about some of the opportunities over the years, whether it was the jobs act or the bipartisan budget act.

On a macro level, we might say Republicans and Democrats don't agree on these issues, but when they found a piece of it and they moved it forward, they worked together. Leadership comes from the top. And so when we see our leaders not coming together, where we see sometimes this, you know, is a sport that I'm right you're wrong, or we won.

Everybody should win in that process, not one party. And I think that that theme and that tone has kind of affected some of the individual conversations. Amy, do you have an example of a policy or an important concern where Democrats and Republicans may share more common ground than they realize? Yeah, I mean, I do think that there's pieces that we can come together on.

Jobs in the economy, we have to find a way to come together because it's so interconnected. I think during this pandemic, we've learned some of these supply chains, some of these jobs, some of these industries that we just took for granted, how something like this can affect it and then how it can affect the individual, whether they're in that industry or not. So I think on health care, on jobs in the economy, I think on infrastructure, I think there are things that we can find that area of agreement. And, you know, the question I guess that we're asking a lot at the Sign Institute, and I think others need to ask, are we gonna make progress at the macro level until we start having some of these conversations

on like different pieces to these big legislative issues and where can we find them? I think that there's other people doing work that's fantastic to show like commonality and issue areas within individuals and not necessarily within the parties or with an elected officials, but I think of common ground solutions

and how they're trying to find issue areas where at least you can come to the table and talk. And if you can share that with public officials, if you can share that with individuals, they might find they have more common ground. Pius? Yeah, you know, there are so many structural and environmental factors that are not helping at best in terms of our

national divisions and polarization and especially effective polarization, which means I don't just disagree with you, but I really deeply dislike even disdain you. One great way to find belonging is in opposition to the other. And I think that's what we found in the tribalization is that a lot of us are getting very, very comfortable and finding a lot of our identity and even our work in opposition to them. Certainly we see that right now in the presidential race. I mean, people have different views

of the individual candidates, but many folks, polling shows are driven as much by a fear of what they will do to America indeed obliterate the nation we love as opposed to necessarily being proactively for any particular candidate or any particular position. I answer extremely dangerous place for us to be. And when we are tribalized in that sense against the other we have this tendency to retreat into our comfortable homogenous tribes and just lash out. Pierce, what's a constructive response to this lashing out, this tribalization of our

politics? My hope and prayer is that we'll step out and bravely step forward into a different future, the one that's built on fresh, authentic relationships that we've a stronger social fabric in local communities and do build those bridges across differences. I think if we choose that second pass, starting at the individual level, that we can transform this tide of rising,

ranker, deepening division, increasing isolation, into instead a wave of respect, connection, and belonging. Neither party benefits from individuals lack of confidence in our institutions. So that's one place where I do think we have to come together. So it is not thinking that our court system works, or that our police system works,

that our public officials are fighting for them. Those kind of things don't work for the Republican Party, it doesn't work for the Democratic Party. And I think that's a place where we have to come together and say, how do we rebuild confidence in the electorate in the constituencies out there to say their government can work for them? Now, I'm not saying that Republicans and Democrats won't differ on the size, the scope, but not having confidence in those institutions, we're all harmed by that, I think in some way.

Absolutely. And one thing that brings to mind, Amy is the tendency for us to probably think too narrowly and short term. And if you're a candidate, maybe in your own individual interest, when any of us could zoom out and agree completely with what Amy say in there. But perhaps some candidates may think it's an immediate electoral advantage and somehow the means justifies the ends to even chip away at the moment. But to degrade confidence in those institutions, nothing that's extremely dangerous game that we're playing. Has our inability to be able to agree affected us in dramatic ways. I'm thinking especially of something like coronavirus, where if we had all approached the pandemic in a less divisive way, then perhaps we could have agreed more readily on the facts and saved many, many

lives, Amy. readily on the facts and saved many, many lives. Amy? Yeah, I would say like we're making these issues partisan in a way and we're looking at them like the parties either forerer against. This is something we should be coming together on as a community. Why don't we have really strong civics programs in our schools?

Because that's something that I used to get at home. We talked about civics all the time. I would go to school and we talked about it all the time. And so lack of knowledge in the system too, I think sometimes leads to these assumptions. You think right after 9-11, having empathetic leaders bring us all together to say we have a common problem. Like this should have been the moment where there wasn't this division.

I was recently just yesterday talking to Governor Larry Hogan and talking to him about how regionally governors and local elected officials regionally from different parties came together to say, oh, this is going to affect our region. How do we do this? His role in the National Governors Association, how those leaders came together, that's what we have to see and focus on. A pandemic doesn't stop at a state border. We have to stop thinking that something that happens in Utah doesn't affect us if we're sitting here in New Jersey. We're so interconnected not only in this country,

but globally, I think it has been a big challenge. So much of our political debate today is framed by slogans and social media. And politicians, they're sort of in the role to that as well. I mean, some are veryans and social media. And politicians, they're sort of in throttle to that as well. I mean, some are very active on social media. And when you are on social media, you tend to be interacting with your tribe and you get rewarded for giving them what they want when it comes to retweets and comments and all the rest of it. Indeed. We're all on these Uber public platforms. And I think a lot of us can fall into the desire

to virtue signal and to kind of prove our stripes within our tribe. I think that's tough. I mean, certainly in the used to be 140 and now 280 characters, tough to bring in too much of that nuance that Amy put on the table. And so we end up in these constant soundbites and invectives and pro-con framing that it's all sorts of, you know, retweets and lights. And boy do I feel special because I got a real good singer out there. That is just adding to the noise, adding to the frame. And indeed around the pandemic, we've talked about for years.

Let's move from us versus them to me and you. And one might think that a global pandemic, the TAMIE's point, doesn't know borders, doesn't know party, would have done that. But with the pandemic, just I agree completely with Amy, there was some incredibly encouraging polling out of Morin Common in April, where the sense of being in this together had spiked. The sense that we're united had spiked. They haven't refueled that, but I think we could all expect is probably to pre-pandemic if not worse levels right now, because it did become immediately politicized. And indeed, as Amy mentioned

earlier, we're taking signals from our leaders. We're taking parameters of what does it mean to be a good soldier for my team from our leaders? And those signals very quickly politicize things as simple as wearing a mask, which, of course, has had a horrific and deleterious impact on the health of our nation. This is Let's Find Common Ground. I'm Ashley. And I'm Richard.

We're speaking with Amy Jacee and Pierce Godwin about the urgent need to find common ground and open up new ways of conversation. In a few minutes, we'll ask them about the new common ground score card, which gives politicians a score on their ability to reach out beyond their base to voters and other elected officials who come from another party

or background. Before we hear more from Amy and Pierce, a word about what we do at Common Ground Committee. At its heart, our mission is to bring more progress, less division. Find out more about our public events and how you can get involved at CommonGroundCommittee.org. We release a new podcast every two weeks. This is number 13. Now back to Amy and Pierce. We want to ask both of you about your personal work to further civility, common ground, and compromise. Those phrases, though, often are associated with nice, polite people talking calmly. And yet, I get the impression from both

of you that you're fired up about this, that it's urgent that we compromise, that it's urgent that we talk about nuance. Amy, you're at the sign institute. What does that work involve? Well, the private sector, non-profits, journalism, academia, they all play a part in this. And so, when we're talking about the coming together, it's not just Democrats and Republicans too. It's about how is the business community working with the public sector in order to find that common ground as well. And so, in a great way, whether it's through our fellowship program or through some of our other programming or the research that we're doing, and I think Pierce's work does this too, it's not like it's come and agree on everything, but how do you have a healthy

debate? We don't have conversations anymore, and I think reading up on all the that Pierce is doing is like, let's have a conversation. We don't have to leave that table and agree on everything. You might not change my mind on everything. But where's the stability in having the conversation? So what we're trying to do at the SIN Institute too is to be that convener, to bring differing opinions.

You know, what greater conversation would there be with, you know, former Representative Paul Ryan and Senator Patty Murray to say, how did you reach a budget deal? Patty, Marion, Paul Ryan, are from different parties and they worked out in agreement despite a lot of differences. So you're saying this can be done.

You know, a lot of this is happening locally. We're seeing city councils, we're seeing state legislatures, we're seeing governors and mayors from different parties have to figure these things out because they're forced to, you know, and they have to, but in a sense if they champion that. So I think that's the big piece of it

and why I really appreciate Pierce's work too. It's like, we can't get anywhere unless we have the conversation. And I think we've even forgotten how to have that conversation to listen and to leave with maybe knowing a little something and not change your mind completely when you leave, that's not the expectation,

but that you might see from the other side. And I will say this, one of the greatest personal experiences for me when I was at the DNC, my counterpart at the RNC, Katie Walsh, has become one of my great friends. And we have had really intense conversations that we don't agree on the issues, but then suddenly I could see her perspective.

I feel like if you can see somebody's perspective, you might not still end up agreeing with them, but we all come from different perspectives, and that's what's being left out of the conversation too. Amy has done a great job here of promoting your work. So let's hear what you do. Thank you, Amy, very kind. Listen First Project's mission is to mend America's Freight Social Factory by building relationships and bridging divides with conversations that prioritize understanding. So we founded the Listen First Coalition, initially

for organizations now 350 with Common Ground Committee very much in the lead. We're driving the National Conversation Project, which is the overarching movement platform of this whole field. And that includes annual National Weeks of Conversation, listen first, Fridays, and currently the Weaving Community Campaign, which we launched at the onset of the pandemic in partnership, creating that with David Brooks's New York Times columnist, we project at the Aspen Institute.

So with that current weaving community campaign, the goal is to inspire millions of Americans of all stripes to start or deepen relationships in their communities. Your listeners are welcome to check it out at weaving.os and put themselves on the map, would love to see how they are connecting and caring and creating a future together with those relationships in their communities.

But four key principles that I want to highlight. One, just listen first to understand. Two, be curious and open to learning with Brenzist number three. Anything we can do to suspend judgment and extend grace. Really been thinking about that word grace. I mean, how little grace are we having for folks with whom we might disagree and across these various lines of difference. And then finally, whatever we can do to maximize our diversity of perspectives with both in the

media space, it's statistically much less likely than it used to be that I am anywhere near in proximity to somebody who looks different and thinks different than I do. So it does take a little more effort these days, but to maximize that diversity of perspectives is going to allow us, I think, to more effectively live in society and relationship and also push the nation in a direction that can serve all. Politicians are rewarded for being all in with their tribe, partially because of gerrymandering and how congressional districts had drawn. So with that in mind, how do we find candidates who are willing to talk to the other side?

I think there's just challenges. When you think about gerrymandering, you think about the way these districts are designed. There's some literally some institutional infrastructure issues with politics in this country that we have to figure out in order to do that. The diversity in this country, you think about statewide elected officials, well, they have to find ways to reach out to very different audiences.

Where are you having the conversations? Who do you have to bring in? And I think these districts sometimes don't reflect a diverse group of people and interests, but we get the government we have because we have voter apathy and we don't have as many people voting or having confidence in the system. So, you know, having the education going out there, civics, teaching people that, yes, politics is personal. These people, whether you vote and elect them or not, are going to make decisions about your personal life

and how that affects you. So I think we really have to look at it from both perspectives and we have to push from both sides. We have to help candidates understand that even if they, when they are representing their whole district and so having that conversation earlier is important, but then really helping citizens understand that they get to make these decisions.

Let's look at some ways that might help people if they believe that finding common ground is a vital election issue. This podcast is produced by Common Ground Committee, which has put out something new called Common Ground Scorecard. Pierce, what is it? What does it do? There's never been a tool to measure the degree to which those elected officials are pursuing common ground. And as you mentioned, common ground committee recognized that gap and what a value that would be. And so I'm personally so excited and grateful that the common ground's core card now exists.

And it's built to provide an objective, easy to understand assessment of the degree to which are elected officials and candidates for office embody the spirit and practice of a common grounder. Well, that's cute. What the heck is a common grounder? Common ground committee has defined that as someone who seeks points of agreement and solutions on social and political issues through listening and productive conversation. So if a politician gets a high score on this common ground score card, that's an indication that this person is open to finding common ground? Exactly right. And your listeners can check it out, hot off the presses at common ground scorecard.org.

Some of the things, and I was involved in the development of the scorecard. So some of the things we looked at is, there's not one, two, or even just three ways that somebody might embody that spirit of a common ground. Or whether they be in the House of Representatives, or the Senate, Senate or one of our governors or candidates for one of those offices. There can be a number of different ways that candidates and office holders are behaving and speaking in a way that is positively reinforcing and propelling the desire that Amy and I have been discussing for there to be common ground. So, you know, overall, and we can dive in as deeply as you like. But one of the

things we're looking at is official performance. So, if you're on the hill in the house and the Senate, to what degree are you sponsoring or co-sponsoring legislation from across the aisle? You know, if you are a governor, to what degree is your job approval reflecting a bipartisan support for the work you're doing? Are you getting beyond your base? And we thought about public conversations across political differences. When are people getting out there, as Amy suggested, the Paddy Murray and Paul Ryan might and talking about how they work together? Are you joining an official from the opposing party for a visit of their district?

How cool to get where somebody else lives and to get to know their space? And then in the house, there's a caucus for everything and there's several incidentally that are kind of focused around this idea of common ground. So membership in that. The last couple is communication. Are you out there promoting common ground practices or in some cases?

Unfortunately are you insulting your political opponents and we consider that and and duct points for that as well and then the final you know major Category is commitments and common ground committee has come up with with 10 commitments that someone can affirm with 10 commitments that someone can affirm, affirming these 10 commitments towards common ground. And that constitutes ultimately the hundred point scale with a 10 point opportunity for a bonus for people who really just are going above and beyond to champion the idea of common ground. But to champion a common ground politician,

people need to vote. A lot of young Americans, in particular, the 18 to 29 set, they don't even vote. So how do we convince that age group to go to the polls? We've seen so many studies that say, if you get somebody who's 18 and they vote for the first time, you could get somebody who continually votes. Civic's education, helping them understand how the politics is personal. I think also young people, a lot of times the question is, where does change also young people a lot of times the question is where does change come from?

Because does it come from the inside out with public officials in the legislative process? Or can they push from the outside in? And my argument would be involved in the process, be civically minded, be involved in your community. And if you wanna be an advocate and fight for issues, whatever your role is, you can find that opportunity. When I first started in politics,

you would just push messages out there, you know, on the evening news and others, and people would come and get it. But now, you really have to go where people are getting the information. So, where are young people, where are they getting that kind of information? Who are the influencers that can help make that case about how important it is to be civic-minded and to be involved. You've seen a lot with professional athletes, you know, with the entertainment industry, the music industry, saying about their involvement. And I do think that helps, but the other big thing is, peer-to-peer conversations are probably

the most impactful. If you've committed to vote and you've made a plan to vote, just go talk to your friends about doing it. Like, that will have more influence than me saying it's the right thing to do. But I think, you know, it is a responsibility for every sector to talk about voting and civic responsibility. I know a lot of companies are making sure that either people have time off to be poll workers or trying to figure out how do they make sure that their employees are able to

vote. All these different entities have to come together to want to work collectively on this. What gives you hope in this time of such deep division? Pears? Yeah. For me, as a Christian, I often think about Scripture, and there's a most timely Bible verse that has been giving me hope for the last several months and it speaks to the redeeming possibility through this pain. From Isaiah, it says, I'm doing a new thing. Now it springs forth.

I will make a way in the wilderness and rivers in the desert. You know, similarly, author David Brooks, who I'm partnering with, I'm weaving community, says, we're in a valley now. It's an opportunity for a new birth. I think I take hope from the fact that some of the most challenging moments in this country's history have been really taking a hard look at ourselves and some of these issues that are tearing us apart.

We're doing that now. And I find hope in that we're having these conversations. I think, you know, you can focus on the negative. There are so many examples, especially on the local level of people coming together, of acts of kindness, of communities and fellowship to try and figure out how do we do this together when we're faced with such adversity at this time.

And for all the concern about young people not being a part of the process, I think we have to shine a light when they are. I think about the students at Parkland. I think about all the young activists and the environmental climate space. Let's shine a light on the work that they're doing to show others, young people,

what is capable of and how you can use your voice. Hey, it does happen, it does exist, it can be done and let's replicate it in other places. And I'm very hopeful for that. Thank you both so much for being with us. Thank you, this was fun. Amy, Daisy and Pierce Godwin, in the coming weeks we'll have more briefings on election issues. And check out the Common Ground Scorecard, a useful tool for informed voters in the days leading up to the election. Find it at commongroundscorecard.org. Let's find Common Ground is a production of Common Ground Committee. Thanks for listening.