Let's Go To Court! - 151: A "Massive" Defense Strategy & Ed Johnson

Episode Date: December 9, 2020

Richard Henry Patterson was mortified. His girlfriend, Francisca Marquinez, was dead in his bed, and he knew exactly what was to blame. His sizable penis. He was certain she’d choked and died while ...performing oral sex. Richard was so embarrassed that he took a few days to call the police. At least… that’s the story he told them when they showed up. Then Kristin tells us about the first and only criminal trial in the history of the United States Supreme Court. It all started in 1906 in Chattanooga, Tennessee. A pretty white woman named Nevada Taylor was on her way home from work when a man attacked and raped her. She didn’t get a good look at her attacker. She knew he had a soft, gentle voice, strong arms, and… was maybe black? That was all Sheriff Joseph Shipp needed to hear. In fact, it was all that most white folks needed to hear. Soon after the reward money piled up, a sketchy man came forward with an incredible story. He was pretty sure he’d seen a black man who matched the attacker’s description near the scene of the crime, around the time of the crime, twirling the leather strap that the attacker had wrapped around Nevada’s neck. That man, apparently, was Ed Johnson. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Sheriff Shipp Trial,” by Douglas O. Linder for famous-trials.com “Mrs. Daisy Hixon Divorced,” Chattanooga Daily Times, Sept. 28, 1907 “Miss Nevada Taylor Dies,” Chattanooga Daily Times, May 13, 1907 “Styles Linton Hutchins,” Tennessee State Government website “Lynching of Ed Johnson,” entry on Wikipedia “Lynching of Alfred Blount,” entry on Wikipedia edjohnsonproject.com “Ed Johnson Gravesite; Pleasant Garden Cemetery,” by Rob’s Randomness on YouTube In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Man accused of murder asks to show penis to jury in oral-sex choking defense” by Rafael Olmeda, Sun Sentinel “Florida man who claimed girlfriend choked during oral sex because of his over-sized manhood, is found NOT guilty of her murder” by Abigail Miller and Snejana Farberov, The Daily Mail “"It needs to be erect": Accused murderer's bizarre defense” by Jackie Salo, New York Post “Defense rests in man’s oral sex choking trial” by Rafael Olmeda, Sun Sentinel “Man who claimed girlfriend choked during oral sex acquitted in murder case” by Rafael Olmeda, Sun Sentinel “Margate man acquitted in murder case after oral-sex defense”by Rafael Olmeda, Sun Sentinel "Lawyer admits size never mattered in big-penis murder trial” by Jackie Salo, New York Post “Man who murdered high-flying solicitor and claimed she choked to death while performing a sex act on him is jailed for life” The Daily Mail

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Starting point is 00:00:30 A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about Ed Johnson.
Starting point is 00:00:48 And I'll be talking about a massive defense strategy. What does that even mean? Ooh, wouldn't you like to know? There's no such thing as a massive defense strategy. There sure is. Okay. It's either, like, really strategic or it's not. No, it's massive. All right.
Starting point is 00:00:59 It's massive, Kristen. Okay. Okay. Yeah, right. I'll wait and hear it. Yeah. I'll tell you about it here shortly. How you doing, Brandy?
Starting point is 00:01:11 I'm doing pretty good. How are you doing? Oh, I'm just fine. Just fine. Just doing excellent? Yeah, pretty much. I was just told that my lotion smells like cat pee, so. It doesn't just smell like cat pee, though, so that's the thing you got going for you.
Starting point is 00:01:27 Also smells like gardenia. So a cat peed on a gardenia? Yeah. That's exactly what it smells like. All right, all right, I'll get rid of the lotion. It's a bit of a risk. I thought Norm was weird because he didn't like it. Turns out you hate it as well.
Starting point is 00:01:43 Yeah, he was like, you got to smell this. And I did not expect it to be that bad. Well, no. You never expect a company to sell you cat pee lotion. It was terrible. I've been swindled. Swindled? I thought it was dog pee lotion.
Starting point is 00:01:57 Kristen. That's what I wanted. Stupid joke. Brandi, let me tell you something. I've got a lot of stupid jokes in my case today. Oh, good. I've teed up quite a few. Oh.
Starting point is 00:02:14 There goes Peanut. Peanut. Oh. Oh. Oh. She just saved our lives, Justin. That dude turned around. He's like, nope.
Starting point is 00:02:25 Nope. Not that house. Heading next door. Okay, for real. How would you feel? If your neighbors were murdered? Yeah, but it was like a random thing. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:02:38 And your dog had gone crazy at some point. Ooh. Ooh. I mean, yeah, you'd feel bad, but you'd also feel like. Like, mm, I was like a brush with death. Yeah. Yeah. What a stupid conversation we're having.
Starting point is 00:02:51 This is what happens when we take a week off, Kristen. I know. We're rusty. It was nice to have a week off, though. It was really nice. It was really nice. I've been so sick of you, and so this was really. I know.
Starting point is 00:03:03 What if you burst into tears? sick of you and so this was really i know what if you burst into tears um what if it came out that we weren't actually friends we'd been put together by simon cowell no lou perlman lou perlman put us together and he was stealing all our money well yeah and hopefully not i mean okay i'm taking it too dark. Sorry. Molesting young boys. Is that where you were going? Yeah, that's where I was. I was about to make a comment about making us do topless pushups in front of him. And I realized too far, too far.
Starting point is 00:03:36 But then you pushed me. So this is all your fault that I've made a joke about Lou Pearlman. Yeah, it's somehow my fault. Do you remember a million years ago? This was like one of my favorite comments we got early on on social media. Someone was like, hey, now that you all have been doing the podcast for a while, do you consider yourselves like actual close friends? Oh, yes. It's like, okay, we were actual friends way before the podcast. This has all been a money-making scheme.
Starting point is 00:04:03 That's right. And it took us two years before we made a dime off of this. It was really brilliant, if you ask me. Playing the long game here. You know what's not a great way to save money? What? Signing up for our Patreon. Yeah, if you've got, like, some extra money.
Starting point is 00:04:24 If you've saved a bunch of money using Gabby and now you're wondering what to do with it, head on over to our Patreon. For just $5 a month, you get a bonus episode. You get into the Discord to chat with us like a 90s style chat room. At the $7 level, you want to spend even more money. You get all that plus a bonus video every month. And you get a sticker and our autographs. And you get inducted at the end of the podcast. That's right.
Starting point is 00:04:52 Into the Supreme Court. Sorry, I was a little late. That's fine. A little rusty after my week off. And then at the $10 level, that's the Bob Moss level, you get episodes early. And ad free. And 10% off on merch. That's right.
Starting point is 00:05:10 Can't put a price tag on that, except you can. Because it's 10% off. All right, you want to talk about a massive defense strategy? Yeah, I think you're being real weird and I am very intrigued. Oh, okay. Let me start out by saying that I came across this case in the weirdest way possible. So we have this game that we play in my family called Death by Trivia. OK.
Starting point is 00:05:34 It's a trivia game and it's all about like different ways to die, like serial killers. It's really fun. It's available on Amazon. This is not an ad, but it's a very fun game. So you have to answer questions, trivia questions. If you answer your question wrong, you get your card, and it's a mode of death. And once you've gotten three of the same mode of deaths, you die. And then you have to answer death questions to try and kill other people.
Starting point is 00:05:56 Okay. Anyway, it's a very good time. Sounds like a real nice time. Anyway, this case was a question on the trivia. And so then I had to, like, it was just, you know, phrased very shortly and quickly. And I was like, is that a real thing And so then I had to like, it was just phrased very shortly and quickly. And I was like, is that a real thing? And so I had to look it up.
Starting point is 00:06:10 And it was. So here we go. All right. Kristen, I'd like you to imagine with me for a moment. You're a reporter sitting in a courtroom. You're covering a murder trial. Dream assignment, if you ask me. You're sitting there at a pretrial hearing, wearing your pantsuit from the loft. Oh, yeah.
Starting point is 00:06:35 Sensible heels. Yep. Scribbling away on your notepad when you hear this exchange. Defense attorney. I believe it's pertinent. I believe it's relevant. Prosecutor. Is it going to be erect or is it going to be flaccid? Because the allegation is they're having sexual intercourse, and I'm assuming the size of the penis does matter for this defense. Do we do it in the back? Do we do it in open court? And how is the defendant going to be erect when the jury views it? A flaccid penis, whether it be a picture or the jury actually seeing it, is completely
Starting point is 00:07:09 irrelevant. It needs to be erect. Oh my God. How pumped would you be if that conversation was going on? What the hell? Would you be pumped? Would you be excited? Would you be intrigued?
Starting point is 00:07:22 Would your mouth start watering? Ew. Okay. No. I'm not going to use the word excited around a penis. Would you be pumped? Would you be excited? Would you be intrigued? Would your mouth start watering? Ew, okay, no. I'm not going to use the word excited around a penis. Would you be titillated? Probably titillated. Oh my God. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:07:35 Okay. This is the exact exchange that took place in a Broward County, Florida courtroom in May of 2017. County, Florida courtroom in May of 2017. The defense attorney was Kenneth Padowitz, and he was representing 65-year-old Richard Henry Patterson, who was charged with second-degree murder in the death of his 60-year-old girlfriend, Francisca Marquinez. Until that day in May, at that pretrial hearing, where Padowitz filed a motion for the court to allow his client to show his, quote, oversized penis to the jury, this case had been pretty unsensational.
Starting point is 00:08:17 Richard and Francisca lived... You mean Francesca? No, it's Francisca. Oh, okay. F-R-A-N-C-I-S-C-A. Okay. So they lived, and this is a little bit confusing because the articles aren't really the same about it, but I believe they lived in the same condo complex but not in the same unit.
Starting point is 00:08:38 Okay. So they lived in Margate, Florida, which is part of the Miami metropolitan area, and they'd been seeing each other for about four months when tragedy struck. Now, all of this is according to Richard Patterson. According to Richard, on October 26th, 2015, or maybe October 27th. Again, the details are a little murky here on the exact date. But the couple had engaged in oral sex. When he... Oh my God, did she die by oral sex?
Starting point is 00:09:09 Finished. Ew. Mm-hmm. Richard had gone to the bathroom and he'd stayed in there for 15 to 20 minutes. When he came out, he found Francisca dead on the bed. There was some blood and semen coming out of her mouth and he panicked. He knew exactly what had happened. She choked to death on his massive member. Come on. Oh, I didn't mean to. Kristen! No, I really didn't mean to. In his panicked state, Richard said he didn't know what to do. He was humiliated.
Starting point is 00:09:49 What an embarrassing way for poor Francisca's life to come to an end. How was he supposed to tell anyone what had happened? All of these thoughts went through his head as he cleaned up Francisca. He wiped the blood and semen from her face and then the thought occurred to him. He wouldn't tell anyone. He wouldn't have to because he'd be dead too. In that moment, Richard decided to end his life. He took a bunch of sleeping pills
Starting point is 00:10:17 and then laid down next to Francisca to die. Except he didn't die. He woke up several hours later next to Francisca's dead body and immediately realized how much worse things looked now. This is weird. He killed his girlfriend with his enormous schlong and now hours had passed and he hadn't called the police. So Richard did what any normal person would do. He left. He left Francisca's body there.
Starting point is 00:10:52 I know. And he called his ex-girlfriend and he text his daughter. Oh, my God. What are you going to? To his daughter, he said, I did something bad. I'm something bad. I'm very sorry. And to his ex-girlfriend, he said, I choked her.
Starting point is 00:11:13 I killed Francisca. And his ex-girlfriend, in a very Kristen move, put Richard in touch with defense attorney Kenneth Padowitz. I feel like that's exactly what you would have done. Yeah, someone I care about. It's like, OK, you're not going to get away with this. Yeah. But we're going to get you a good defense. Yep.
Starting point is 00:11:38 So it was Kenneth Padowitz who called the police and informed them that they would find Francisca Martinez deceased inside of her Margate, Florida condo. And when police made entry into her home on October 28, 2015, they found just that. There was Francisca on the bed. But so much time had passed that she was already in the early stages of decomposition. At the scene, investigators did find an empty sleeping pill bottle and a bag filled with paper towels, which had blood and semen on them. So those parts of Richard's story seemed to check out. But the fact that Richard had waited so long to report Francisca's death really complicated things. First, it made him look guilty as hell. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:12:23 But it also made the death investigation much more difficult. In fact, a medical examiner would be unable to determine a cause of death. By the time her death was reported, Francisca had been dead somewhere between 8 and 48 hours. That was like as close of a timeline as they could get. And that was based on her decomposition. Her skin was already discolored, which made it impossible to check for bruising that would be present if she'd been strangled or smothered. So following an autopsy, Francisca Marquina's official cause of death was listed as undetermined.
Starting point is 00:13:04 Marquina's official cause of death was listed as undetermined. This would be a huge hurdle for the prosecution to overcome. But they felt they still had a strong case with Richard's bizarre behavior following Francisca's death. They had the text message he'd sent his daughter where he said he'd done something bad. And they had that phone call with the ex-girlfriend where he said, I choked her. I killed Francisca. And they'd talked to Francisca's neighbors who said they'd heard the couple fighting in the days and maybe hours before her death. They said it sounded as if Francisca was trying to end the relationship. Wow. And so they moved forward and charged Richard Henry Patterson with second degree murder.
Starting point is 00:13:46 And as I mentioned, as the trial neared, the case seemed pretty low key, just your run of the mill murder trial. It likely would have never garnered national attention, and I certainly wouldn't have heard of it until that outlandish pretrial motion. Now, this isn't the first case to use the ginormous dong defense, which, fun fact, Kristen, why does your face look like that? I'm sorry, I hate this because honestly, I think he's a murderer, and now he's
Starting point is 00:14:15 walking around being like, it's my big dong! I'm a huge dick! It's my curse in life! It's my cross to bear, my huge penis! I may have put something exactly like that in the script. Well, for real, this guy sounds like he's full of shit. And now he's like trying to brag his way out of murder.
Starting point is 00:14:36 Yeah. Yeah. Okay, sorry. I just lost my place. Hold on one second. Sorry for distracting you by being so pretty. That's how this feels. Anything bad, it's like, because I'm great. my place. Hold on one second. Sorry for distracting me by being so pretty. That's how this feels.
Starting point is 00:14:48 Anything bad, it's like, because I'm great. Okay, so this, like I said, this was not the first case to use this ginormous dong defense. So, what I was going to say. I'm so glad you repeated that. You were so proud of yourself. Fun fact, this is considered a version of the rough sex defense.
Starting point is 00:15:04 Okay. So let's pause here, and we'll take version of the rough sex defense. Okay. So let's pause here and we'll take a little trip across the pond and hear about another case that used this exact same defense strategy. Jolly good. In November of 2010, Linda Bakewell, a well-respected solicitor from Cheshire, England, failed to show up at her parents' house for a get-together. And as is always the case, this was extremely out of character for her, and her family and friends were immediately concerned that something had happened to her. It was pretty quickly determined that she had last been seen with a friend and sometimes romantic partner named Philip Martens. a friend and sometimes romantic partner named Philip Martins.
Starting point is 00:15:52 So Philip and Linda had been introduced by friends like something like five years earlier. And they often enjoyed the local music scene together, though they'd never really been like in a relationship. Right. While Linda was reportedly utterly besotted with Philip, not a phrase I was familiar with. Apparently means she was infatuated with him. Philip, who was a divorced father of three, friends were skeptical of Philip. They believed he was just kind of taking advantage of her affections when he wanted them and very much taking advantage of her wallet because she was very well off and he was not.
Starting point is 00:16:32 For four days following her disappearance, police and Linda's family searched for her. Her sister June like sat up all night at Linda's apartment waiting for her to come home like for a couple of nights and of course she never did investigators spoke to Philip several times during this four-day period and while he admitted that they'd been together that night they'd met up for drinks at a pub and he'd been drinking Linda had not she'd been paying for the drinks but she was dd yeah but he said he didn't know what had happened to her after he'd gone home. But he was lying.
Starting point is 00:17:08 He'd been lying that whole time. In fact, if police had gone into Phillip's home at that time, they would have found Linda's naked body laying on the floor under his kitchen table. Oh, my God. Mm-hmm. It wasn't until November 25th, when police showed up at Phillip's home to arrest him on suspicion of kidnapping, that he finally admitted that he knew what happened to Linda. As they were placing him under arrest, he said, she's in the boot of my car. Officers opened the boot and sure enough, there was Linda's naked body.
Starting point is 00:17:43 It had been scraped and dirty. And it was then that Philip told a new version of what had happened the night Linda went missing. They had been at a pub that night and they'd been drinking. Well, he'd been drinking, as I said earlier. Linda had not. And he'd had at least 10 drinks. Dang. Philip, calm down.
Starting point is 00:18:04 And then maybe he'd taken like a little bump of Coke. But I mean, doesn't everyone? After 10 drinks, why not? Why not? And then they were ready to leave. And Linda, as I said, hadn't been drinking. So she was the one driving. And so when they were done at the bar, Linda realized that they were in, they were like near this industrial area where Philip worked.
Starting point is 00:18:25 He was like a machine operator or something. And so Linda was like, hey, point me in the direction of your work. Show me where your building is or whatever. And so he did. And so she drove towards this industrial park. And when they got kind of near where his building was, Linda had pulled over and then she'd performed oral sex on Philip. Remember, this is Philip's version of the events
Starting point is 00:18:46 that night. But Philip had blacked out, you know, on account of all the alcohol and drugs. And when he came to, Linda was dead in his lap. It was clear that she'd obviously choked on his sizable sausage. that she'd obviously choked on his sizable sausage. And then he panicked. He didn't know what to do. And so he dragged her body into his house and left it there under his kitchen table for a couple of days. And he'd lied about it when the police came asking about her
Starting point is 00:19:18 and when her family was begging for any information that he might have known about that night or where she'd gone after she dropped him off. And then when he could tell the police were closing in on him, he moved it into the trunk of his car. But it had all been an accident. He super swore. Curse me and my colossal cock, I believe he was quoted as saying. Jesus Christ. I hate this so much. You know how one of the reasons I know he's full of shit?
Starting point is 00:19:51 Uh-huh. You know what you never want to do when you're the DD and someone has had ten drinks? Ten drinks, yeah. Give me a break. Yeah. No. I don't think she was signing up for Roadhead. No.
Starting point is 00:20:01 No. She wasn't signing up for shit. She was probably so annoyed with him. Yes. And that's how she died. They got into a fight. There was just like one small problem. His penis. With Philip's version of events. As the barrister and White would point out at his trial, a post-mortem examination concluded that miss bakewell died of asphyxiation but it also found that she had suffered impact injuries to her head while she was still alive yeah of course yeah the barrister concluded that the more likely turn of events that evening was
Starting point is 00:20:39 that linda had likely fought off phillips advances in the car that night and that he'd killed her in a fit of rage. Yeah. Sexually assaulted and killed her? Yeah. Yeah. Likely, yeah. Yeah. A jury of seven women and five men took only two hours to return a unanimous verdict of guilty before sentencing him to life in prison.
Starting point is 00:21:01 Before delivering the sentence, the judge condemned Philip's actions. in prison. Before delivering the sentence, the judge condemned Philip's actions. He said that Philip's behavior towards this unfortunate woman who was besotted with you was contemptible. That contempt was practiced during her life and continued after you killed her, the judge said. I am satisfied that you intended to kill her that night. You then coldly and calculatedly tried to hide the body and to obstruct her friends and family who were desperate with worry as to what happened to her. The judge added that it was an extremely distressing case, and then he extended his sympathy to Linda Bakewell's family who were in the gallery. Philip Martens will have to serve 18 years of his sentence before becoming eligible for parole. Oh, poor guy. Yeah. Yeah. Who cares? So obviously this was not the outcome that Richard Patterson was hoping for in his own trial. You're really giving us a twofer here. It
Starting point is 00:21:58 is a twofer. So here's the deal. Neither case really had enough information for a full episode. So yeah. Oh. Meld them together. All right. Okay. Yeah. And I get to talk about two giant dicks, and I don't mean their penises. Oh, boy. She good.
Starting point is 00:22:14 She is good, folks. Like I said, this was not the outcome that Richard wanted from his trial. Yeah. But his trial went about as you would expect it to. The prosecution focused on what they could prove. They focused on him being a big freaking weirdo. I'm sorry. I have this one hair. You have one hair.
Starting point is 00:22:31 It's just like right at... Hold on. Let me see if I can tuck it here because it keeps getting in my mouth. How do I look? You look great but like with just one hair a straight. I can't see it from here. It just keeps... Just right in the mouth. You guys are missing out because you couldn't see her
Starting point is 00:22:50 gestures. Yeah, so the prosecution focused on his weird behavior following the death of Francisca. He hadn't called the police. He'd taken those sleeping pills, but he hadn't taken enough sleeping pills. It was clear that he had never had enough sleeping pills in his system.
Starting point is 00:23:07 He his claim against this because this is in the questioning. This came up not he didn't testify at his own trial, but in the investigation, he said, you know, he took what was there and then he started to regret taking them. And so, you know, if he died, he died. If he didn't. Right. It was he was meant to live. Okay. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:23:28 So they had his daughter testify about the text messages that she sent. They had the ex-girlfriend testify about the conversation she'd had where he said, I choked her. I killed Francisca. Yeah. Why wouldn't you say there was a terrible accident? Yeah. So this was kind of a point of contention between the prosecution and the defense because they were like, this is it. He's admitting to killing her. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:23:51 But the defense is like, ah, he said he choked her, which he did with his giant dick. He didn't say I strangled her. OK. I still think if it's an accident, you say it's an accident. Right. There's been a horrible accident. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. So from the opening statements, the defense's position was this was a horrible accident and Richard was humiliated by it. The last thing he wanted to do was to tell people that Francisca's last act had been performing oral sex on him and that that had been her demise.
Starting point is 00:24:32 He didn't want to have to do that. He didn't want to tarnish her name. You know, whatever. Which I just don't believe. I mean, if someone did die during sex, I can understand that would be horrible. Yeah. Because then, you know, it's embarrassing to tell their family. And especially if it were to somehow get out into the media, that would be embarrassing. You know, it takes over a person's whole life.
Starting point is 00:24:55 So I actually do understand why you wouldn't want to go down that route. But what's the alternative? You going to lie about it? No. You going to hide her body under your kitchen table for days? Yeah, that was the other guy who hid it under the table. I know, but I mean, like, is that— Yes, exactly, exactly.
Starting point is 00:25:10 You have to just tell the truth and hope that people will be professionals. Yeah, that's the defense's whole angle is that he was embarrassed by the way that she died. He didn't know how to handle it. Yes, he handled it wrong, but it was only, it was purely out of embarrassment, not out of guilt. I don't know, man. I don't know. I don't know. But the prosecution was really working against stuff here. This was an undetermined cause of death. They couldn't put a medical examiner on the stand and say, yes, he strangled her. Yes, he smothered her. Yes, this is how she died. They
Starting point is 00:25:52 couldn't do that. All they could do. Yeah, because he had waited so long to call. Exactly. And that's what they were able to do. They were able to get a medical examiner on the stand who said, yes, she was in an advanced stage of decomposition when we found her. The coloring and they presented autopsy pictures to the jury and showed the coloring of her skin and said, this is how we found her. This doesn't allow us to determine if there was bruising, if there are marks that are consistent with strangulation, with asphyxia. with asphyxia. What the medical examiner did have to say, though, was that there were no broken bones in her neck and the cartilage was not damaged in any way, which is not consistent with a strangulation, but could still be consistent with asphyxia, like smothering with a pillow or something like that. But it still leaves, having an undetermined cause of death leaves a big question mark for the jury. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:26:48 Reasonable doubt. Yeah. The defense focused on what they could prove. And that was that there was an undetermined cause of death in this case. They really used that. They said they brought their own medical examiner to the stand who was like the retired Broward County medical examiner who had looked over the official reports and said, yeah, it's true. We can't say what the cause of death was here. Could it have been that she choked to death on his large penis? It's possible.
Starting point is 00:27:24 The evidence here could fit that. It's not likely. Well, yeah, because that's the thing is if you're starting to choke, wouldn't you? Here's the reason it's not likely. Number one, it would have to be lodged in her throat for three minutes after she stopped breathing. Right. Like you don't notice that. Right.
Starting point is 00:27:49 breathing. Right. Like you don't notice that. Right. And just human nature, there would be some kind of defensive wound. She would applaud to get him off of her. There was nothing found under her nails, nothing like that. See, to me, that's all we need to know. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. And so this retired medical examiner said, I don't think choking on his large penis is the cause of death here. I don't. I don't think that's it. But she could have had a stroke. She could have had a heart attack. Neither of those things would have left any trace that you would find in an autopsy.
Starting point is 00:28:20 She could have died a natural death during a sex act. Oh, and he just assumed it's my giant penis. Yes. Oh, shit. Yeah. That was like the bomb that was dropped at the trial. That kind of is a bomb. It really is.
Starting point is 00:28:42 Yeah. That's a big thing yeah yeah and he just had never considered that this was some kind like she'd had you know some kind of medical event right that had led to her death wow was she in poor health because she was kind of young right she was like 60 60 yeah no as far as i know there were no signs that she you know yeah so this is really kind of young, right? She was like 60. 60. Yeah. No, as far as I know, there were no signs that she, you know. Yeah. So this is really kind of what it teetered on. Do you believe that the weird behavior afterwards was enough to show guilt?
Starting point is 00:29:18 Or has the defense presented enough questions about what her cause of death was? In the jury's mind, that's what they have to weigh. In their closing arguments, the prosecutor concentrated again on that evidence that they does exist. You know, hey, how do you explain that call when she says, when he says, I did it, I choked her, I killed Francisca. How do you explain the guilty conscience text messages to his daughter? Clearly, he killed her.
Starting point is 00:29:46 He knew he killed her. Second degree murder. You have to find him guilty. The defense, though, kind of sidestepped what they had laid out in the beginning. So in their opening arguments, they're like, he killed her with his massive dick. And that's the story. And he was embarrassed. They kind of went a different direction here in their closing arguments.
Starting point is 00:30:09 And they're like, well, you know, we put a medical examiner on the stand that says that's not how she died. And he's right. That's not how she died. It's not likely that she died that way at all. But. It seems like the testimony of their own medical examiner surprised them. Well, I don't think it surprised them. I think they knew that that was going to be the thing. Here's how they take it. Here's how they spin it. Richard always believed that his penis killed his girlfriend. He believed that from the moment he found her dead.
Starting point is 00:30:45 That explains his odd behavior. He never considered that it could have been a medical event that happened. That she died some kind of natural death, that this really was a tragedy, a horrible accident. And that completely explains the weird things that he did following her death. So this was a strategy that the defense took that actually ruffled a bunch of feathers in the legal community because they laid out one thing in their opening argument. Yeah. And they led the jury to believe that Richard would be testifying in his own defense. But he never did.
Starting point is 00:31:29 So they never, so they laid out, you know, she died following a sex act. This is how she died. They laid all of that out and then never presented any evidence backing any of that up. Because the only person who could testify to it was Richard. Because the only person who could testify to it was Richard. So following the results of this trial, this was like a big thing that was talked about in in like the legal community, because that's like a no no, you don't lay out one strategy and then never back it up. It's actually considered like a bad strategy, like a sketchy strategy, like bad lawyering. Right. But if your client says they want to testify and then decides they don't want to, what choice do you have? So when this all kind of ruffles these feathers, the defense attorney, Padowitz, comes out
Starting point is 00:32:19 and says, hey, it was my intention to have Richard Patterson testify this entire time. Yeah. But the prosecution failed so poorly, they never proved their case. It just wasn't necessary. Hmm. So I didn't have him take the stand. I didn't think it was necessary. Okay.
Starting point is 00:32:39 And he was right. Yeah. A jury deliberated for five hours before acquitting him. Yeah. I mean, I don't know that you have enough. I agree. I'm actually amazed that this went to trial with an undetermined cause of death. I am too.
Starting point is 00:32:59 That is a, that's a tough thing to overcome without some concrete evidence. And I just don't think they have it here. And honestly, to me, there's something very believable about a person dying during a sex act and a guy being such an idiot. Like, oh, my God, my huge penis killed her. Like. Yeah. I don't know. There's a chance he's full of shit.
Starting point is 00:33:25 But there's also, I can, maybe. Yeah. Like. Yeah. I don't know. There's a chance he's full of shit. But there's also. I can. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe. I agree. I agree. So the jury never heard that there was a motion out there for him to show them his big old
Starting point is 00:33:37 ding dong. And it obviously never came to fruition. The judge never ruled on it. I think it's kind of interesting the prosecution wasn't against it. They just wanted like to know the parameters around it. Sure. Like, okay, how are we doing this? We're just going to whip it out and open court?
Starting point is 00:33:52 How is it going to be erect? It has to be erect. What's going to, who's going to take care of that? We got a fluffer coming in here? These are all questions I'd be asking. I mean, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:34:02 Although, why wouldn't they think a photo would do? I think a photo would do. And so you've got to have like a Coke can in there for scale. Right. So a Coke can. Well, I mean, you got to have something. Something that's a standard size that we all understand. So one thing like a political or a political, I'm sorry.
Starting point is 00:34:21 One thing a legal expert. Don't bring politics into this. I'm sorry. I apologize. A legal expert kind of said following this trial was like yeah, why didn't they offer to like make a mold? Like that would have been more than enough.
Starting point is 00:34:35 I mean yeah, they've got those things online. Yeah. I mean, what's it like 14 bucks? Yeah, you just make a mold of that thing and the jury can pass it around. I feel like the prosecution was trying to embarrass the defense by being like, oh, well, it's got to be hard. What are you going to do?
Starting point is 00:34:50 Yeah, what are you going to do? Get them all turned on, then wheel them in here real quick? Wheel them in here? Why is he strapped to a gurney? Well, I mean, it's just got to be real fast. Put him on a skateboard. Just a modeler straight up. Push him in.
Starting point is 00:35:06 Oh, my God. That's a weird case. Just a model straight up. Push him in. Oh, my God. That's a weird case. It is a weird case. I feel like you're kind of in my territory doing weird things. So I actually thought you would like it. It was like an ode to you. It actually made me really uncomfortable. It really was a pretty Kristen case.
Starting point is 00:35:23 Around the holidays, we call that a very Kristen Christmas. Very Kristen Christmas. I'm glad I could give you this very Kristen case about a giant dong. I want to know how big it is. I'm not going to lie. Well, yeah. How did that not come up? I know.
Starting point is 00:35:36 There was no description. I never found a description of it. Wouldn't it be hilarious if it was just an average-sized dong? What if that was the defense strategy the whole time? Okay, I have to let my client show his dick to the jury because they're going to see how small it is and how out of line this guy is by thinking that his whole behavior was out of whack because he has such a— That would backfire. You think that would backfire?
Starting point is 00:36:05 Yeah, because then they'd be like, why is this guy with this little dick trying to trick us? A skewed view of reality, Kristen. No one's that skewed. Anyway, there's your two for case on a massive defense strategy. Appreciate that. Yeah. Okay, I have got to get some better socks because my feet are freezing. What?
Starting point is 00:36:29 What a weird thing. Do you really have to fart and you're just making an excuse? No, no, I would totally tell you. You can't touch me with your socks, you fucking weirdo. They're clean. God. Are you going to put two pairs of socks on? Hell yeah, I am.
Starting point is 00:36:41 Fucking weirdo. What's wrong with putting two pairs of socks on? My feet are sweating inside my Uggs right now. That's disgusting. Hey, you, you are one of those weirdos who doesn't wear socks with Uggs. You're not supposed to wear socks with Uggs. I know. We've had this discussion before.
Starting point is 00:36:57 But, but, a mutual Facebook friend of ours who is a nurse, she works for a gynecologist, I believe. She made a Facebook post begging all women because it's boot season. And she was like, you're all so worried about how your vaginas smell. Don't worry about that. What you need to worry about when you put those feet up in those stirrups is those funky feet. And she said, those of you who are wearing Ugg boots without the socks looking at you. My feet smell amazing.
Starting point is 00:37:31 Oh, give me a break. They do. No one's feet smell amazing. They smell perfect. Exactly how you'd want your feet to smell. Odor eaters came to me and they said, can we bottle that? And they did.
Starting point is 00:37:48 All right. Well, I'm glad we had this discussion. I felt so validated when I saw that Facebook post. Did you? I did. I did. I knew it was wrong to go sopless in Uggs. It is wrong.
Starting point is 00:38:03 It's not wrong. My Uggs don't smell. But your feet do and that's why. No, but my vagina smells terrible. My favorite is how confident you were. Got myself a real stanker.
Starting point is 00:38:28 I think we should transition into another case here. I love this case. And everybody buckle up. I mean, get yourself a beverage. Okay, I got a beverage. You're kind of like me today. How many beverages you got? I got two.
Starting point is 00:38:40 This is not mine. Yeah, I know, but still. I got, well, this used to be a vitamin water. Now it's just regular water. And I got me a green tea. You ever get this? No, it looks disgusting. It's so good.
Starting point is 00:38:56 No. Bottled teas, disgusting. I'm serious. I feel very strongly. Oh, okay. They taste fake. No, this is delicious. I'm going to bring you one. I'm going to bring you one.
Starting point is 00:39:07 I'm going to bring you one. Okay. You can try it. You can spit it right in my face. That's just what we need in these COVID times. COVID times. Brandi, how'd you catch COVID again? Oh, Kristen spat green tea right in my face.
Starting point is 00:39:22 I told her to. Okay. I had her cream tea right in my face. I told her to. Okay, so first off, thank you to FamousTrials.com. Oh, Dougie O. Douglas O. Linder. He has a fabulous write-up on this case. He hasn't responded to any of my emails asking if it's okay to call him Dougie O. We have to assume that he's really happy with it. We have to assume that he's really happy with it.
Starting point is 00:39:51 The vast majority of this comes from his website, plus a little newspapers.com, as I'm one to do, and a little Wikipedia. Oh. Okay. Smattering of all three. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Picture it. January 23rd, 1906.
Starting point is 00:40:00 Mm. Chattanooga, Tennessee. Oh. You ever been to Chattanooga? I have been to Chattanooga. I want to go so bad, it looks beautiful. Yeah, I've been when I was a kid, years ago. I'm not a kid anymore. I was going to say thank you for clarifying.
Starting point is 00:40:13 You've got that fresh, dewy skin. I'm so cherubic. What'd you do down there? Tennessee stuff. Okay, wow. Well, that's great. We'll have to keep that in. Can't cut that.
Starting point is 00:40:30 Now, I'm trying to remember if Ruby Falls is there. I was a kid when I went to Ruby Falls. Is that in... Okay, let's Google. Ruby Falls. Nope. Nope. Sure is.
Starting point is 00:40:44 I went to Ruby Falls when I was in Chattanooga. All right. All right. Okay. Story checks out. So we're in Chattanooga, Tennessee, and a young, beautiful, blonde, white woman, go ahead and check that off your true crime bingo card, was leaving work for the evening. Her name was Nevada Taylor, and she was 21. And even though it was only about 6 p.m., it was winter,
Starting point is 00:41:09 so it was getting pretty dark out. So Nevada got on a trolley and rode it all the way to the base of Lookout Mountain. And once she got to her stop, she got out and walked to the Forest Hills Cemetery. What did she go to the cemetery for? Her dad was the groundskeeper of the cemetery and they had a little cottage that they lived in on the cemetery. Which seems like something you'd enjoy,
Starting point is 00:41:34 you freak. I was just thinking that sounds kind of nice. Fun fact, the cemetery was and is beautiful and currently has four and a half stars on TripAdvisor. I don't know who goes and reviews a cemetery, but it is very nice looking. I'd go there.
Starting point is 00:41:54 Is this on our post-COVID list of places we should go? Oh, by the time I get through with this, you're going to be chomping at the bit to get to Chattanooga. Creaming my jeans to get to Chattanooga. Calm down. Chattanooga creaming my jeans calm down calm down chattanooga won't have you if you keep talking like that so nevada got to the gate of her home slash cemetery and someone grabbed her it was a man and he came up from behind and grabbed her by the throat. And in a soft, kind voice, he said, if you scream, I'll kill you. Well, that's fucking terrifying enough. And it's even more terrifying that it's in a calm voice.
Starting point is 00:42:35 Yeah, it's super weird. Nevada couldn't breathe. By that point, the man had wrapped something around her neck. And what happened next, she couldn't say because she lost consciousness. When she finally came to, she walked home and told her dad that she'd just been attacked, and Nevada's father did what any dad would do. He called up law enforcement, and Sheriff Joseph Shipp arrived in no time. You'll be thrilled to learn that Sheriff Shipp was a super rich white guy with a seventh grade education who dropped out of middle school to join the Confederate Army.
Starting point is 00:43:16 Excellent. The dude was privileged, uneducated, and racist, so he really had it all. The hat trick. So Sheriff Shipp got to the house, and a doctor arrived, too, and the doctor examined Nevada and determined that she had been raped. Sheriff Shipp asked her what she remembered from the attack, and Nevada didn't remember much. She remembered her attacker's soft, kind voice, and that, you know, he was kind of on the shorter side and that he had really strong arms and he was dressed in black and he had a black hat.
Starting point is 00:43:56 And that was it. The sheriff asked if her attacker had been, quote, white or Negro. And Nevada said she wasn't sure. She hadn't really gotten a good enough look at him. But then she thought about it for a while and decided that, yeah, her attacker had been black. What? So there you have it. A pretty blonde white woman had been raped by a black man in 1906 great this will not shock you one bit but the white people in chattanooga lost their ever-loving shit yeah they were like we have to solve this thing yesterday and luckily they had their dumb racist sheriff on the case sheriff ship was so hungry for justice that he announced a $50 reward for information
Starting point is 00:44:48 leading to the arrest of Nevada's attacker. Adjusted for inflation. About $1,500 buckaroos. All right. Who was paying for that? So it was either the sheriff's department or he was such a wealthy guy, he might have just done it himself. But then Nevada Taylor's workplace threw in another $50 and the governor of Tennessee department or he was such a wealthy guy he might have just done it himself but then nevada taylor's
Starting point is 00:45:05 workplace threw in another 50 bucks and the governor of tennessee threw in 200 bucks and pretty soon the people of chattanooga started chipping in and eventually the reward money reached a whopping 375 dollars adjusted for inflation the reward for information leading to Nevada's attacker was almost $11,000. Wow. Brandy, I know how much you love justice, so you'll be thrilled to learn that it only took three days of top-notch detective work and that sweet, sweet reward money to crack this case wide open. I hate it.
Starting point is 00:45:42 Oh, you hate justice, do you? I hate a rush to justice. Okay. You like it slow. You like slow hands. Oh, I have a correction about slow hand. What? I said it was written by Conway Twitty.
Starting point is 00:45:56 It definitely wasn't. The Pointer Sisters did it first, and Conway Twitty covered it. Boy, I'm glad you. My sincerest apologies. Yeah. Apologies to Mr. Twitty. And to the Pointer Sisters. That's right.
Starting point is 00:46:10 You will be docked without pay. Here's how this case was solved. They just picked a black guy to blame it on? No. How dare you? How dare you? After Nevada was attacked, Sheriff Shipp and his deputies searched the crime scene and found a black leather strap. They brought that back to Nevada and compared it to the marks around her neck, and it lined up perfectly. So they had the weapon that
Starting point is 00:46:41 had been used to strangle and subdue her. But who had used it on her? It was a black guy. Obviously, there's no debating that. We know it for sure, so stop talking about it. But who was he? And where was he? Well, have I got great news for you. It just so happened that a guy named Will Hickson, who was super interested in the reward money, excuse me, super interested in finding the rapist.
Starting point is 00:47:09 Yeah, justice. He was just boners for justice all the time. Boners for justice. He came forward with some critical information. Are you ready? I'm ready. On the evening that Nevada was attacked, Will Hickson just happened to see a black man walking near the cemetery, twirling a leather strap around his finger. Are you fucking kidding me? No, no, this really happened, Brandy.
Starting point is 00:47:36 Shut up. But wait, there's more. And he had a set of gins to add. As that very bad black man twirled the weapon around his finger, he sang a song. Here's how it went. Do-do-do, I am a rapist. Do-do-do, I will rape you. Do-do-do, you can't stop me.
Starting point is 00:47:58 Do-do-do, that's how rapists do. Are you embellishing a little bit, Kristen? No, that's the song. That every rapist sings? Yeah. When you sign up to be part of the rapist club, you have to, yeah. You swear an oath to sing that song
Starting point is 00:48:15 anytime you're out raping. Yeah, and you know, it's a good thing because, you know, Will here, he saw the guy and then the guy sang the song. Yeah. Case solved. Is this not the stupidest story you've ever heard? I'll take my $11,000.
Starting point is 00:48:29 Right. So Will Hickson had definitely seen the rapist. And he told the sheriff, hey, I saw the dude walk name of the tall guy because Sheriff Shipp found that tall guy and asked him about his friend and found out that the friend the guy who had absolutely for sure raped Nevada Taylor was a carpenter named Ed Johnson. So Sheriff Shipp went and arrested Ed Johnson and brought Ed to jail and Will Hickson came in and was like yep that's him that's the guy and then Will Hickson got all the reward money, and it only cost him his soul, so that's cool. And the white people in town were stoked.
Starting point is 00:49:13 Mmm, justice. Some sources say that the white people of Chattanooga were all super pissed, but it sure seems to me that they were creaming their Klan robes because when they found out that Ed Johnson was being held at the Hamilton County Jail. But I can't say creaming your jeans, but you can say creaming their robes. Well, we have a limit, and I already knew I was going to say it. We've got to keep it kind of classy here. And we can't both be talking about people
Starting point is 00:49:45 creaming their, you know, garments. Fifteen hundred people rushed down there and they demanded that Ed be handed over to them. They didn't want to wait for a trial. They wanted to lynch him right on the spot. But the jailers held strong and they were like, please be reasonable. And the crowd was like, KKK. And then because they were totally. And then because they were totally reasonable people, they just, you know, shot their guns in the air and then they just casually grabbed a steel post and rammed it against the jail door. And then in a super chill way, they just, you know, moseyed over to the power plant and cut the power to the jail. And then they looted a blacksmith shop and took a bunch of sledgehammers and just started banging away at the jail.
Starting point is 00:50:35 It was total chaos. Yeah. The National Guard came in to subdue the crowd and a local judge named Samuel McReynolds showed up to try to get the mob to stop losing their shit. But a member of the mob shouted, the jury's in, judge. We find him guilty and sentence him to hang by the neck until dead. And the judge said, go home. I'll have none of this McNonsense. That's right. And then he said, hey, dum-dums, I've got news for you. Ed Johnson isn't even in this jail.
Starting point is 00:51:08 The princess is in another camp. And they were like, no, fake news. And so the judge took five of the biggest douchebags and said, okay, I will take
Starting point is 00:51:21 the five of you on a tour of the jail. Since the crowd doesn't believe me when I say Ed's not in here, maybe they'll believe you dipshits. And so the five dipshits toured the jail, did not find Ed Johnson, who by that point was in jail in Nashville. And so the five dipshits came out to the crowd and broke the terribly sad news that they wouldn't get to murder a black man with their bare hands that night. Yeah. Oh, gosh.
Starting point is 00:51:47 Such a bummer. They'd been so looking forward to it. You know, Brandy, there are so few joys in life. Stop it. That you've got to take them where you can get them. Live, laugh, lynch as the saying goes. Kristen. These white people freak me the fuck out.
Starting point is 00:52:04 Have you seen these pictures from these lynchings? Yes. It's just white people dressed up for Sunday service to go murder a black guy. It's the creepiest thing. Yes, it's terrifying. They loved it. They loved it. Yeah, everybody took fucking souvenirs. So yeah, I'm going to make fun of them.
Starting point is 00:52:20 Live left lynching. You know some white ladies have. If they'd known. If I could go back in time and if I made that joke, they'd be like, that's a good idea. Stitch that on a sampler. So the crowd took it real hard. But the next day, the angry mob dispersed and dealt with the sadness that comes from not ripping off part of a dead man's shirt for your scrapbook. off part of a dead man's shirt for your scrapbook. And Nevada Taylor headed off to Nashville to get a look at Ed Johnson and tell authorities whether she recognized him as the man who attacked her. She got there and she saw him, but she wasn't super certain. I mean, the one thing she knew
Starting point is 00:53:03 for sure was the sound of her attacker's voice, and it had been kind of kind and gentle. But Ed Johnson had a very distinctive voice. It didn't really fit that description. But Sheriff Shipp was like, he's just faking that voice, so you'll be thrown off. And so eventually, Nevada said that she was pretty sure Ed Johnson had attacked her. So that's what we call a positive ID. Pretty sure. Great. I do feel bad for Nevada.
Starting point is 00:53:38 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Keep in mind that these were old timey times and everything moved at warp speed. So later that day, a judge convened a grand jury. And on that very same day, the grand jury returned an indictment. And the day after that, the judge appointed three defense attorneys to represent Ed Johnson. But of the three, only one of the attorneys actually wanted to be there. And that was Lewis Shepard.
Starting point is 00:54:10 Lewis was an old, bald, white dude who was good at his job and loved attention. He was super well-respected, represented a ton of black clients, and he had this really wild notion that racism sucked. Wow. It's wild even in 2020. That is cutting edge. And so he was excited to be part of the team, and he was like, hell yeah, let's do this. The trial was set for the following week. And let me tell you, that week was pure hell for Ed Johnson and the defense team.
Starting point is 00:54:41 The people of Chattanooga harassed the defense team. One of the lawyers woke up one night to the sound of glass breaking. People were throwing rocks into his windows. Despite the intimidation, the defense team worked hard. They were like, hey, judge, can we get, I don't know, more than a week to prepare for this case? And the judge was like, no. And they were like, okay. Hey, judge, Chattanooga is fucking nuts right now.
Starting point is 00:55:09 Fifteen hundred people showed up to lynch our client a few days ago. Can we move the trial? Can we get a change of venue? And the judge was like, no. And so the trial kicked off 12 seconds later. Oh, my God. In early February with a jury of Ed Johnson's peers. No. Of course not. A jury of 12 white's peers. No. Of course not.
Starting point is 00:55:25 No, a jury of 12 white men. That's exactly right. Nevada Taylor was the first witness. District Attorney Matt Whitaker had her walk them through the attack, and then he did that classic courtroom move. He asked her if the man who attacked her was in the courtroom that day and she said I
Starting point is 00:55:49 believe he is the man and pointed to Ed. That doesn't sound real confident. No. She was not real confident. Yeah. And I bet the jury doesn't give a shit. Well we'll see.
Starting point is 00:56:06 I feel so complicated about her. But I do think she tried to say like. Yeah. And she was she didn't have a say. Right. That's the bottom line. She could have gone in there and said that's absolutely not him. And they would have been like, don't you think it's him? Sheriff Shipp was not going to let her leave without making a positive ID of Ed Johnson.
Starting point is 00:56:29 Yeah. The doctor testified about Nevada's injuries. And then Will Hickson took the stand. Will Hickson told the jury his 100 percent true story. Did he sing the song? Yes. And everyone was real freaked out because, you know, when you hear the sound, you're about to get raped. Do, do, do. When asked how he could be so sure he'd seen Ed on such a dark evening,
Starting point is 00:56:59 Will explained that luckily two electric cars passed by right as Ed was hanging out near the cemetery twirling that strap. And the electric cars had cast light on Ed's face. And so Will had seen Ed for sure and stopped making that face. That's exactly how it happened. Uh-huh. Were they UFOs or? Don't worry about it. All you need to know is luckily he saw the rapist at the scene of the crime around that time with the weapon. Even it was dark out. He saw the light on the face. I mean, what more do you want? It was 1906 and the car was invented in 1905.
Starting point is 00:57:38 And like at that time, there was like one car in the entire state of Tennessee. And it drove by twice. And didn't by twice. And didn't have lights. Then Sheriff Shipp took the stand and bragged so much about his brilliant detective work that he gave himself a boner. When the defense took over... Sheriff Shipp did.
Starting point is 00:58:12 Okay. When the defense took over, their first witness was Ed Johnson. He was clearly nervous, but he told the jury that he wasn't guilty. He hadn't attacked Nevada. And Ed had an airtight alibi. Oh my gosh. He said that on the night of the attack, he'd been working at the Last Chance Saloon. He'd arrived at 4.30 p.m. and left at 10 p.m. He could not have attacked Nevada. He'd been working all evening long. The defense then called 13 witnesses who all testified that they had seen Ed Johnson working that night. Oh, my gosh. So the defense had this strategy to establish Ed's very strong alibi and then take a big dump all over Will Hickson. Here's how they did the last part.
Starting point is 00:58:56 They called a guy named Harvey McConnell to the stand. And Harvey was a very well-respected older black man, and he testified that two days after Nevada was attacked, Will Hickson came to him and was like, hey, Harvey, wasn't there a black guy doing some work over there at that one church? And could you describe him to me physically? In other words, Will Hickson hadn't seen shit. In other words, Will Hickson hadn't seen shit. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:59:34 He wanted the reward money, so he searched around for a black guy who fit the basic description of the rapist, which, I mean, the description is he's kind of short and wore black. And he wears T-shirts sometimes. Right, exactly. Give me a break. Preston. Prestone. The trial lasted three days. And as it was wrapping up, the jury requested that Nevada be called back to the stand.
Starting point is 00:59:55 And because it was 1906 and there were no rules at all, the jury got to have like a little Q&A with the victim. One of the jurors asked, Miss Taylor, can you state positively that this Negro is the one who assaulted you? And she said, I will not swear he is the man, but I believe he is the Negro who assaulted me. And the juror said, in God's name, Miss Taylor, tell us positively. Is that the guilty Negro? Can you say it? Can you swear it?
Starting point is 01:00:24 And by this point, she was, of course, sobbing. Yeah. Because she couldn't. You know, she told them the truth, which is, I think he is maybe, but I don't know. And she said, listen to me. I would not take the life of an innocent man. But before God, I believe this is the guilty Negro. And with that, one of the jurors lunged out of the jury box at Ed, and the other jurors held him back, and he shouted, if I could get at him,
Starting point is 01:00:53 I'd tear his heart out right now. Oh my gosh. The jury deliberated for six hours. Eight favored conviction. Four favored acquittal. Wow. Which in 1906, I mean, pretty big, right? But then they all went home to their families for the night. And wow, the next day when they reconvened, all of a sudden, all 12 jurors were in favor of conviction. I think this is the classic thing of these jurors are the ones who have all the information.
Starting point is 01:01:28 And then they go home to their less informed families, probably racist families. And they're saying, how can you possibly say he didn't do this? So they found Ed Johnson guilty. Or even you have to find him guilty because if you don't, the public outcry is something we don't want to have to withstand. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't think about that. Wow, I really didn't think about that. Yeah, I'm not going to be the white guy who sticks my neck out. Yeah. For this guy who might be guilty. Who knows?
Starting point is 01:02:07 Yeah. Even though he's clearly not. Come on. Right. Can you get a better alibi than that? I was at work the whole time and 13 people were there with me. Oh, my gosh. And so they found Ed Johnson guilty.
Starting point is 01:02:23 And the judge sentenced Ed to be hung by the neck until dead the following month. But Ed hadn't raped Nevada. He clearly hadn't raped Nevada. He couldn't be put to death for a crime he didn't commit. So he pled with his three attorneys. What can we do? What can we do? But they were split two against one on what to do
Starting point is 01:02:48 lewis shepherd the guy with the most experience the one who actually wanted to be part of the team was like yeah we need to appeal this but the other two said no in fact one of them told edward look you can die at the hands of an angry mob or you can die with some dignity and be hanged by the state. What? Mm-hmm. That's what his attorney is saying? Yeah, that's what his defense attorney says. Holy shit.
Starting point is 01:03:16 The message is either way you're going to die, doesn't matter that you're innocent, an appeal will not help you, an appeal will only get you lynched. Mm. An appeal will not help you. An appeal will only get you lynched. But Ed Johnson's dad, who went by the name Skinbone, which is the coolest nickname I've ever heard in my life, was like, hell no. Skinbone. Yeah. You know, Skinbone doesn't fuck around. You're not going to pick a fight with Skinbone. You're right. I'm not picking a fight with Skinbone.
Starting point is 01:03:43 Yeah. So he's like, hell no. My innocent son has more options than just die or die. Yeah. So he went to an attorney named Noah Pardon. Oh. And I don't mean to. What?
Starting point is 01:03:57 Is he going to get him pardoned? I mean. Noah. I don't mean to impress the pants off you, but Noah was one of Chattanooga's best attorneys, and he was black! Yes! Fun fact about Noah. One of Ed's other defense attorneys had actually asked him to join the defense team, but Noah was a business cat, and I think we should all be cool about this, but he was basically like, look, all the white folks in town are going batshit crazy over this case. And I'm a black guy who owns a law firm in 1906. Been working my ass off as a lawyer to develop a good reputation,
Starting point is 01:04:37 wading through waist deep bullshit every day. I don't want to blow all that by joining this team. Yeah. But I will help you guys on the side. Super secret. Yeah. So Noah had actually been helping the defense all along. But finally, when the defense team said they didn't have the nuts to file an appeal, Noah was like, oh, Jesus. Okay. He began to reconsider. It would be career suicide, maybe actual suicide. I mean, this could be the thing that gets him killed. Yeah. But he was technically in a position to help Ed Johnson with the appeal.
Starting point is 01:05:13 Should he do it? Noah's partner at his law firm, a guy named Stiles Hutchins. Oh my gosh. Who was also a black attorney and a stone cold fox and had the coolest name ever. Stiles Hutchins. Oh my gosh. Who was also a black attorney and a stone cold fox and had the coolest name ever. Stiles Hutchins? Yes. You need to have another kid and name him Stiles. Holy shit, that's a cool name. I know, right? I was like, no way.
Starting point is 01:05:38 Is that an option for people to be named Stiles? Holy shit, that's the coolest name ever. How did people not hear about this name? How are there not a million Stiles? How hasn't it gone out of style? Because people went crazy
Starting point is 01:05:51 for it, right? This is the coolest fucking name ever. I feel like I just named some kids today. Yeah. You're welcome, everybody. So Stiles was like,
Starting point is 01:06:04 look, we became attorneys because we love justice fuck our reputations let's do what's right and so they did wow and before they got too carried away they went to lewis shepherd and they were like lewis will you be our token white guy will you accept this rose and lewis was like my God, it's like a fairy tale. And he joined the defense team. And so that Monday, Noah and Stiles went to the judge and they said, hey, we're planning to appeal the conviction. We've got our motion ready to go. And the judge was like, oh, wonderful, wonderful. Cool, cool, cool. I'm super looking forward to that. wonderful wonderful cool cool cool i'm super looking forward to that um gosh today's not great it's not great um i'm just slammed with work been just putting out fires why don't you come back
Starting point is 01:06:53 tomorrow and formally file the motion and they were like okay sure so they came back the next day Sure. So they came back the next day. And that fucking judge, who had a butt chin and beady little shark eyes, said, Oh, no, you're a day late and a dollar short. You see, you have three days after the verdict comes in to file for a new trial. And oopsies, would you look at that? We're on day four.
Starting point is 01:07:27 Oh my gosh. Noah and Stiles were pissed. They were like, okay, you outsmarted us. That will not happen again. So Noah and Stiles kept working, but there were so many roadblocks. And by roadblocks, I mean white people being douchebags. Noah and Stiles needed the court record, obviously. But the court employees were like, oh, gosh, what did we do with
Starting point is 01:07:50 that thing? I just don't know. Hmm. Where is that? And I know for sure we're going to need to be paid in full before we hand it over. I know that's not how we normally do things, but I just spent the morning jerking my little ding dong to white supremacy. So that's how things are going to go. That's what they said. Oh, is it? Yeah. I didn't make that up. Okay. Doesn't that explain a lot about the problems in America? It sure does. Some people wake up and they jerk their little dingdongs to white supremacy. It was incredibly frustrating. And on top of everything, Ed Johnson's execution was just days away because, you know, things were just like bing, bang, boom. And that's the truth.
Starting point is 01:08:36 But finally, they got their appeal all the way to the Tennessee Supreme Court. And the Tennessee Supreme Court was like, denied. Uh-huh. But they didn't give up. They were like, okay, okay. Tennessee, more like the only zero I see. No. Let's take this thing federal.
Starting point is 01:08:59 No. I knew you would hate that joke. I knew everyone listening would hate that joke. I knew everyone listening would hate that joke. I couldn't stop myself. I am a rapist. So Noah Pardon hopped on a train to Knoxville, and three days before Ed was scheduled to die, Noah made his argument in federal district court. It was the longest of long shots. Federal judges weren't allowed to review the evidence that got presented in a state trial.
Starting point is 01:09:31 So Noah's argument was that Ed Johnson's federal constitutional rights had been violated, specifically his rights to due process. So Noah got up there and he argued that the judge in Ed Johnson's trial should have agreed to delay the trial. Duh. Should have agreed to move the trial to another venue. Duh. And I don't know, maybe should have done something about the fact that a juror literally lunged out of the jury box and threatened to tear the defendant's heart out. That's nuts.
Starting point is 01:09:59 Cocoa nuts, as people say. Cocoa nuts. Noah also argued that Ed hadn't been tried by a jury of his peers. Black people had been excluded from his jury, and that was a violation of the Equal Protection Clause. Then Noah made an argument about the effectiveness of the attorneys. After his trial, they'd all abandoned Ed. They told him essentially that he was going to die no matter what, so why bother with an appeal? In fact, Noah called one of those attorneys to the stand, and the guy was like, I mean, I heard that like 25 rednecks were going to lynch Ed Johnson if we appealed,
Starting point is 01:10:49 so you know, like a true hero, I gave up. Noah's arguments were all spot on. Obviously, Ed Johnson's rights to due process had been violated left, right and sideways. But Noah was a black attorney defending a black client and it was fucking 1906. And what he was arguing had literally never been successfully argued by an attorney of any race for a client of any race. Oh, shit. So this is the weirdest thing to me. But at that point in time, the federal courts had never reversed a state court conviction on the basis of violation of due process. And on top of that, the federal courts hadn't yet made it clear that the protections offered in the Bill of Rights were also protected in state trials.
Starting point is 01:11:25 Right? Come the fuck on. Like, of course they should be applied. So people were like, I don't know. Maybe when you go to state court, it's just a shit show. Yeah. Which, I mean, is obviously what happened. It's a fucking free-for-all.
Starting point is 01:11:38 So the judge listened to Noah's argument and was like, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. And here was the judge's ruling. and was like, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. And here was the judge's ruling. Obviously, Ed Johnson's trial wasn't perfect. But what is, really? If you ask me, it's our imperfections that make us beautiful. And then he looked out at the crowd and said,
Starting point is 01:12:02 I want you all to know that I'm not wearing any makeup right now. And then he was like, and yeah, the right to a fair trial doesn't apply in state court, which is the craziest thing anyone's ever said, ever. I don't know about ever. I mean, besides the guy who said the thing about like, I am the rapist. I'm sorry, I just spat everywhere.
Starting point is 01:12:24 Do you think that'll be on the top of the charts? Dude, dude, dude, I am a rapist. I hope not. Yeah. So, in other words, you can have a totally unfair trial in state court, and that's just fine. Welcome to America where we've got it all figured out. And then the judge was like, I know this sucks, so let me do something really nice because I'm a hashtag nice guy. I will delay Ed Johnson's execution by 10 days.
Starting point is 01:12:52 You're welcome. But then the white folks of Tennessee were like, what the hell? And the judge was like, oh, just kidding. You folks are really scary when you're angry. I will delay Ed Johnson's execution by seven days. That sounds like a hot load of nothing, because it is. Yeah. But it was just enough time for Ed Johnson's defense team to appeal the judge's decision all the way to the United States.
Starting point is 01:13:19 Supreme Court! So the defense team worked like crazy. This wouldn't be the first time that black attorneys made arguments before the Supreme Court, but that shit did not happen every day. And they had all of two seconds to prepare. Yeah. And naturally, in those two
Starting point is 01:13:35 seconds, some white assholes set fire to their law office. Of course they did. Mm-hmm. Which is weird because I've always thought that racist white people hated property damage more than like anything. But anyway, I guess the rules are messy. I like how nervous you get when I say this. So Noah and Stiles were putting out fires, literally and figuratively.
Starting point is 01:14:05 Yeah. And on the same day those white douchebags set fire to his law office, Noah took off for Washington, D.C., where he would make his argument in the highest court of the land. But he did not feel good about it. Noah needed a miracle. Noah needed a miracle. And as he prepared for the meeting, he also prepared for the moment when he would inevitably apologize to Ed Johnson's family for failing them. As he waited in the court, a receptionist told Noah, he will see you now. Since this was an emergency appeal, Noah wouldn't be arguing his case to the entire court. He'd be arguing in front
Starting point is 01:14:45 of one judge. So Noah got up and walked in and discovered that the Supreme Court justice he'd be seeing was Justice John Marshall Harlan. And as soon as he saw Justice Harlan, Noah pulled two confetti cannons from his pockets because he just let them bug out. cannons from his pockets because he just let the fuck out. You like Yosemite Sam? Pew, pew, pew. Okay. So on the Famous Trials website, the guy kind of makes it seem like this was a surprise,
Starting point is 01:15:19 but it does seem like this was just part of Justice Harlan's job for this district. So, I mean, maybe it was a surprise. Maybe it wasn't. Anyway, either way, there was definitely confetti thrown in the air. We can't debate that. I don't know about this at this time, but I know, like, the limited knowledge I have about arguing to the Supreme Court like this is, like, in Brendan Dassey's trial, they knew that they would have to argue in front of three justices. But it could be any three justices. Interesting. And so they had to prepare different arguments.
Starting point is 01:15:47 Yeah, depending on who's in the room. Based on which judge they were going to be in front of. Yes. And they didn't find out until they got in the room which direction they needed to go. Right. So maybe it's a similar situation. I don't know.
Starting point is 01:16:01 It must be easy to prepare for Clarence Thomas since he doesn't ask shit. I don't know. It must be easy to prepare for Clarence Thomas since he doesn't ask shit. So he'd gotten his miracle. Ten years earlier, Justice Harlan famously dissented in Plessy v. Ferguson, which was a case about whether there should be racial segregation on railroad cars, which obviously there should be. I'm just kidding. And while the majority of the Supreme Court judges were like, yep, separate but equal,
Starting point is 01:16:33 Justice Harlan was like, you're all full of shit. He wrote, our Constitution is colorblind and neither knows nor tolerates classes among citizens, which isn't true, but it's nice and we should work to get a nice sentiment it's not at all true yeah cuz you know the guys who wrote that thing went home to rape their slaves so you know like you do maybe they sing that song on the way home from writing the Constitution do do do I am a rapist. Are you okay? I'm fine. Just gets like a little bit worse every time. We'll cut some of it. Brandy, if you want my opinion, Justice Harlan was a liberal snowflake.
Starting point is 01:17:20 Who? Who was also a snappy dresser who loved bourbon, tobacco, and equal rights, probably in that order. Not a very fun fact. He came from a family of enslavers. But you know what they say. You live, you love, you love. What's that song? Is that Elena Stamorza? You live.
Starting point is 01:17:44 What song is that? You know, it's like? You live. What song is that? You know, it's like, you live, you learn, you love, blah, blah, blah, blah. I knew it. I knew what song you were singing. I possibly just made it up. Climb in the church, ride the hunt, do, do, do, I am a racist. It's do, do, do, I am a rapist. Don't you change my lyrics. Sorry. Climb in the church right behind do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do I have a clan robe. So what I'm trying to say is, like, things can be complicated.
Starting point is 01:18:34 Have I made my point eloquently and excellently? Yes. Great. So Justice Harlan listened to everything that Noah had to say. And after Noah left, Justin Harlan read up on the case. And he was like, whoa, justice was not served here. We got to do something. So he called up all the other Supreme Court justices and they agreed to meet on a Sunday morning at Chief Justice Melville Fuller's home. By the way, when you picture Chief Justice Melville Fuller, picture a full-figured, very racist Mark Twain. That is exactly.
Starting point is 01:19:07 Okay. But with nicer, like if Mark Twain could have been bothered to like run a comb through his hair for once. Look him up. Melville Fuller. Oh, yeah. Am I right or am I right? Yeah. That mustache is obnoxious.
Starting point is 01:19:26 How do you eat without getting that fucker in your mouth? It's a mess. It's a mess no matter what. I hope he didn't eat a lot of soups. Just crusted in there. I know. I know. I almost vomited during a haircut once.
Starting point is 01:19:43 Do you want to talk to them about it? This man had a sizable beard, and he was asking me to trim it way down, and I trimmed like a surface layer, and beneath the surface layer. Oh, God. I can't hear this story. There was soup encrusted in the beard hair around his mouth. And as I hit it with my trimmers, a flake came off, hit me right in the fucking face. I almost died. Well, you had to walk away.
Starting point is 01:20:19 I literally had to walk away because I thought I was going to vomit. And, of course, he sat there like a bump on a log, just happy as a clam with soup crusted in his beard. Soup crusted in his beard. He probably had no idea that you almost threw up because he was so nasty. I'm sure he had no idea because I'm a professional. Do you think anyone has ever said to somebody, hey, I almost threw up because you're so nasty? I don't think so. All right. Tell, hey, I almost threw up because you're so nasty. I don't think so.
Starting point is 01:20:47 All right. Tell us about what happened with Melville Fuller. So the members of the Supreme Court debated for like an hour, but eventually they agreed that they should grant Ed Johnson's appeal. This was an unprecedented decision, but it was obviously the right one. And the white folks of Chattanooga took it super well. I don't think they did. JK, they did not. The decision came down and they were pissed.
Starting point is 01:21:11 Perhaps no one was more mad than world-class asshole and orchestrator of this whole mess, Sheriff Shipp. And so he wrote a new song called Doot Doot Doot, I Am a Lyncher. Doot doot doot, I will lynch you. Doot doot doot, I will lynch you.
Starting point is 01:21:25 Doot doot doot, I am a racist. Hey, these can all go together. All go together. Would not shock me if he was also a rapist. I mean, like, I bet we can do like a combo deal. At this point, Ed Johnson was being held at the Hamilton County Jail, the same jail that the lynch mob had swarmed a few weeks earlier. jail, the same jail that the lynch mob had swarmed a few weeks earlier. And with tensions rising, Sheriff Shipp called up his deputies, who were scheduled to work overnight at the jail,
Starting point is 01:21:56 and gave him the night off. Uh-huh. Hey, boys, how about you make yourself scarce? Mm-hmm. Or come help with the lynching later. Just one guard was in charge of the prison that night. And so, of course, that night, hundreds of white men and women showed up at the jail, and they broke in. They used sledgehammers on a steel door. It didn't take them long to find Ed Johnson in his cell on the third floor. Ed's cellmate was a white woman named Ellen Baker. What? That shocked the shit out of me, too. So she'd been charged with selling whiskey without a license.
Starting point is 01:22:29 This is how I know that they knew. They knew that he wasn't a rapist? Exactly. Yeah. You honest to God think this guy raped some white lady so you lock up a white lady with him? No. Bullshit. No.
Starting point is 01:22:44 Yeah. Wow. So she'd been charged with selling whiskey without a license, which is another thing of like, okay, her crime is itty bitty. Yeah. He didn't do anything. But let's say he did. You're really going to put these two together? No. As the crowd hammered away at their locked cell door, screaming and yelling racial slurs and brandishing weapons,
Starting point is 01:23:09 Ellen turned to Ed and said, you better do some praying. And so he did. And the angry mob screamed and seethed outside the cell door, and Ed lay in bed with his eyes closed, reciting, The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures. He leadeth me beside still waters. He restoreth my soul. He leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
Starting point is 01:23:37 Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for thou art with me. Thy rod and thy staff comfort me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies. Thou anointest my head with oil. My cup runneth over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life, and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever. And he just recited that over and over and over again for two hours while this mob banged on the cell door. I got through that. I didn't get through that when I rehearsed it. I just can't imagine. When they finally got in, thanks to a key from the lone jailer, they grabbed Ed Johnson
Starting point is 01:24:27 out of bed and took him out to the crowd. They wanted to lynch him right there, but someone shouted, to the county bridge! And the crowd cheered. They walked six blocks to the Walnut Street Pedestrian Bridge, which is still standing today. And the crowd was thrilled. They'd actually done this exact same thing before. Thirteen years earlier, a black man named Alfred Blunt had been accused of attacking a white woman. There was very little evidence to suggest that he'd actually done it, but it hadn't mattered. Because the white folks of Chattanooga stormed the jail, broke in, grabbed Alfred from his cell, marched him down to the Walnut Street Bridge, and they hung him from it.
Starting point is 01:25:16 None of them had faced any consequences for the crime, so why not do it again? When they got to the bridge, Ed had blood running down his face from being beaten. His hands were bound. And a white man held a noose and said, do you have anything to say? And Ed turned to the crowd and said, I am ready to die, but I never done it. I'm going to tell the truth. I am not guilty. I have said all the time that I did not do it, and it is true. I was not there. I know I'm going to die, and I have no fear to die, and I have no fear at all.
Starting point is 01:25:56 I was not at St. Elmo that night. Nobody saw me with a strap. They were mistaken and saw somebody else. I was at the Last Chance Saloon, just as I said. I am not guilty, and that is all I have to say. God bless you all. Oh, my God. I am an innocent man. God bless you all.
Starting point is 01:26:18 I am an innocent man. And with that, one of the men put a noose around Ed's neck and hung him from a beam. But Ed didn't die right away. His body jerked and spasmed for a few minutes, so they fired bullets at him. Oh, my gosh. And they pulled him down, and he moved some more, and so they sprayed him with even more bullets. One source said that he was shot more than 50 times. Oh, my gosh.
Starting point is 01:26:48 After they were done murdering Ed, one of the lynch mob leaders pinned a note to his dead body. It read, I'm going to need you to bleep. To Justice Harlan, come and get your bleep now. Oh, my gosh. The next day, the word got out about what the crowd had done. It was in all the newspapers. And the Supreme Court justices were pissed.
Starting point is 01:27:17 I have feelings about this. I think part of it is Justice Harlan believed very strongly that Ed was an innocent man. I think a lot of the other Supreme Court justices were just like, we're the fucking Supreme Court. We can't have a community disobeying our orders. So I think it was like they got their egos hurt and they got their, you know, maybe some of them really did feel like this was wrong. You know, maybe some of them really did feel like this was wrong. The justices spoke out to the press in disgust, and President Roosevelt spoke out, too. They were a united front.
Starting point is 01:27:58 This was a serious crime, and it needed to be punished. So President Roosevelt sent some Secret Service agents to Chattanooga to collect evidence that the Supreme Court might use in its first ever criminal case. Oh my gosh. So the two agents went down to Chattanooga and everybody in town was like, what? No, didn't see anything. Maybe you should leave. Goodbye. And finally, these three dudes came after them with pipes and assaulted them because Southern hospitality. But the Secret Service agents didn't leave. Instead, they went to Noah Pardon and this white guy, Reverend Howard Jones, who ran the all-white First Baptist Church. And they were like, we need your help. You guys know this town.
Starting point is 01:28:41 You know people who, you know what went down that night. Please help us. Interestingly, they went to Howard Jones because after Ed Johnson was lynched, Howard delivered this super controversial sermon where his big hot take was it's wrong to lynch people. It's wrong to lynch people. Wow. And let me tell you, by today's standards, that sermon is a real yikes. But it's amazing what counts for woke in 1906. Literally, I read some of it.
Starting point is 01:29:17 And it's like, hey, you guys, obviously, we are the superior race. Obviously, we're in charge and we're always going to be in charge. But with great power comes great responsibility. That was basically the message. Oh, God. And so, like, we fucked up here because, you know, we're mommy and daddy, you know. Yeah. I hate it. I know.
Starting point is 01:29:35 But seriously, like, this was— Like, that was cutting edge, yeah. Yeah, and it was really important, and he was very helpful in this case. So Reverend Jones and Noah Pardon helped the agents with their investigation and that night when Reverend Jones went home his house had been set on fire. But the agents got what they needed and their report showed that the local judge and the DA had watched the lynching go down from a window in the courtroom. The report also showed that Sheriff Shipp had helped enable the lynching and that he'd hung out with the mob for nearly an hour.
Starting point is 01:30:09 And when they asked the sheriff about that, he was like, yeah, I don't know. I have no idea who was there that night. Weird. But Sheriff Shipp and his little clan of douchebags couldn't bullshit their way out of this one. They would have to answer for their crimes in the first and only to this day criminal trial in the history of the Supreme Court. Wow. So in May of 1906, the Justice Department charged 27 Chattanooga douchebags with criminal contempt, and that's taken directly from the court trial.
Starting point is 01:30:40 And man, oh man, in the winter of 1906, when this all went down, Noah and Stiles sat in the front row to watch all these little lily white good old boys take a pounding from the Supreme Court. But before the Supreme Court could get to the good stuff, they had to figure out whether they even had jurisdiction over this case. And Solicitor General Henry Hoyt was like, yes, you do. Cool. But Sheriff Shipp's lawyer, Judson Harmon, was like, actually, you don't. Because see, none of Ed Johnson's federal rights were even violated in the first place. So when you guys said he could have an appeal, you were wrong. And you didn't even have the right to make that decision. So since you had no right to issue the stay of execution, that means my clients can't be found in contempt. Except for the fucking Supreme Court, bitch. Okay, that is basically exactly what they said. Justice Holmes was like, I will not be condescended
Starting point is 01:31:39 to by a man named Judson. Thank you very much. I'm the fucking Supreme Court. On Christmas Eve of that year, the Supreme Court unanimously decided that they did have the right to... Yes! They're the fucking Supreme Court! And in February of 1907, the trial began. It was held in the United States Custom House
Starting point is 01:31:59 in Chattanooga, which is a building so gorgeous you will shit your pants. It's not still around, but Google it. United States Custom House, Chattanooga, which is a building so gorgeous you will shit your pants. It's not still around, but Google it. United States Custom House, Chattanooga. I'm sure believing anything is going to be beautiful enough for me to shit my pants. You never know until you try. It's the first thing that pops up on a Google image search. It's beautiful.
Starting point is 01:32:24 Oh, it is beautiful. Gotta go change my pants. I knew you would. It is beautiful. That's why today I'm gifting you with a new set of trousers. So the justices were basically like, it'll be easier for all the witnesses if we have this thing in Chattanooga and there's no way in hell that we're going to Chattanooga. So we're sending a deputy clerk to preside over the trial and he'll give us a little file to review when he's done,
Starting point is 01:32:54 which is, I think, the ideal way to conduct business. You do the hard work and come back to me with a file later. No kidding. The courtroom was packed with spectators. And weirdly, Brandy, the white folks must have been real busy that day because suddenly they didn't want to be seen at the trial of the lynch mob. Probably because so many of them had been part of the lynch mob. But I'll tell you who did show up for the trial. Black people. Black people wanted to see justice. Ed Johnson's funeral had been heavily attended by the black community.
Starting point is 01:33:39 And the idea that these murderous motherfuckers might actually get some justice was pretty damn compelling. Assistant Attorney General Terry Sanford got the trial started. The first person he called to the stand was a reporter for the local newspaper. It was a pretty brilliant move, in my opinion, because all the other white folks in town had amnesia. But this reporter had written about the lynching for the paper, so, you know, couldn't claim that. And he told the court that on the night in question, there was only one guard on duty at the jail. And there were usually six or seven. A dude from the telegram office said that he'd given the sheriff's ship the news about the Supreme Court's decision that afternoon. So obviously the sheriff couldn't claim ignorance.
Starting point is 01:34:18 He for sure knew about it. And Ellen Baker, Ed Johnson's cellmate, testified that before the lynch mob came in, all the other third floor prisoners were, interestingly, moved to another floor. Weird. Ellen said that when the mob broke in, she started crying and screaming. And one of the deputies told her to hush. No one was going to hurt her. Mm-hmm. But perhaps the best witness was a guy named john stone cipher he'd been hanging out at a saloon with members of the lynch mob a few hours before they lynched ed johnson they told him they
Starting point is 01:34:54 were going to lynch ed and john said i believe sheriff ship would shoot the red hot stuff out of you and one of the guys said no it all agreed. There won't be a sheriff or deputy there. Wow. Yeah. We're going to kill this guy. The sheriff knows about it. Yep. And it's going to make sure nobody sees anything. Yeah. Just like last time. The prosecution's case went on for five days. And then for some reason reason they recessed until June and then came back and presented one more witness. It was a justice of the peace who'd been at the lynching and ID'd the man who put the noose around Ed's neck and a man who'd shot Ed, which I don't know how you name which person shot Ed, but I believe this man shot Ed in the head. And after all that, the defense took over. And, you know, it was pretty amazing because everyone had an alibi.
Starting point is 01:35:54 Oh, weird. Yeah, their wives and friends showed up and they were like, oh, he was with me all night. That's right. I remember it so well. Mm hmm. He was with me. I have receipts from everywhere. One of the defendants did actually admit he was there that night, but he was just a spectator.
Starting point is 01:36:12 He was not a participant. He was just a real chill dude who wanted to watch other people murder a black man. He didn't want to do it himself. Ew, no way. Just wanted to watch. Totally normal guy. Then Sheriff Shipp got on the stand. And oh boy, did he have a story to tell.
Starting point is 01:36:34 First of all, he had no idea that anyone was going to lynch Ed Johnson. Oh, yeah? Yeah! As if there'd been some kind of incident, you know, a million to other times. Yeah. He was just as shocked as he could be. and he didn't conspire with anyone. Sure, ship was. Ridiculous.
Starting point is 01:36:53 Conspiracy was not his style. And in fact, when he found out that there was a lynch mob at the jail, he ran most of the way there. Most of the way? This is for real. And when he got tired, he walked rapidly the rest of the way. This is for real. And when he got tired, he walked rapidly the rest of the way. Okay. Yeah, I mean, you gonna put him on trial
Starting point is 01:37:10 because he couldn't run the whole way? Yeah. And oh, it was just terrible because when he got there, the lynch mob saw him and they grabbed him from behind
Starting point is 01:37:24 and they held him down and they stood guard over him. And oh, he was just a helpless little thing. And at this point, the defense got up for cross-examination and they were like, wow, they stood guard over you. They grabbed you. They held you captive for at least half an hour in the jail. Tell me, who were your captors? And Sheriff Shipp was like, I don't know. And the prosecutor was like, they didn't blindfold you. You were in a lit room.
Starting point is 01:37:58 You had a gun you could have used. Who was there with you? And Sheriff Shipp was like, I have no idea. Then, because this whole thing was a mess, the defense rested, and in the spring of 1909, the trial reconvened at the Supreme Court where they presented closing arguments. By this point, it seems to have all come down to Sheriff Shipp. So the defense's closing argument was basically,
Starting point is 01:38:24 hey, you can't hold this guy in contempt of court just because he was a little bad at his job one day. Oh, okay. Just a little bad. Oh, just a little. You ever had a bad day at work, Brandy? You think the Supreme Court should come down on you? Yeah, okay.
Starting point is 01:38:43 Maybe he should have known that there would be a lynch mob and, you know, maybe he should have done things differently. Hindsight's 20-20, but he's a good guy, so let's all calm down. In May of that year, the Supreme Court made its decision. It was five against three, with one justice abstaining. The court found Sheriff Shipp guilty. They found the jailer, Jeremiah Gibson, and four members of the lynch mob, Nick Nolan, William Mays, Henry Pedgott, and Luther Williams, all guilty, but ruled there was insufficient evidence against the other defendants. In the majority opinion, the court wrote that
Starting point is 01:39:25 Shipp not only made the work of the mob easy, but in effect, aided and abetted it. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. For his crime, Sheriff Shipp was sentenced to, what do you think? Three spankings.
Starting point is 01:39:45 Basically. Yeah. 90 days in jail. Uh-huh. Luther Williams and Nick Nolan, the two men who played the most active role in Ed Johnson's murder, also received 90 days. Yeah. The rest of the guilty parties received 60 days in jail. At the end of their short sentences, the men came home as heroes. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:40:08 When Sheriff Shipp's train arrived home from Washington, D.C., 10,000 people greeted him. Holy shit. They were singing Dixie, which if that doesn't give you goosebumps. Yeah. give you goosebumps. Yeah. So what happened next? Sheriff Shipp lost a mayoral election because black folks voted him out. That actually happened during the middle of his court case. In his older years, Sheriff Shipp did what a lot of white people did and still do. He promoted a bullshit revisionist history of the Confederacy as a just and heroic cause. And he walked around Chattanooga in his Confederate uniform looking like an old woman who just squeezed into her prom dress and everyone was too polite to tell him that his tits were hanging out so when old shippy finally croaked he was 80 years old and he was buried in forest hills cemetery where nevada taylor was attacked and raped
Starting point is 01:41:13 and apparently they put up a monument in his honor because of course they did and it'd be a real shame if someone took a shit on it will h Hickson, the star witness in Ed Johnson's trial, who snatched up that reward money and told everyone he'd seen Ed Johnson on the night in question, found himself in court about a year after Ed Johnson's lynching. His wife of one whole year was suing him for divorce, and it was ugly. She said that in January of 1906, the same time Nevada Taylor was raped, her husband had just decided to stop working. He was just done, just didn't want to. And so she was like, okay, well, we have to have money. And if you don't work, then I guess I'll have to. And he was like yeah that's fine but if you leave
Starting point is 01:42:06 me with the baby here alone I'm not going to take care of it I'll just kill it. Oh my gosh. Yeah. A few years later he made the news again when he broke into someone's home and he was sentenced to three years in prison. I couldn't find anything more on him after that. It's amazing to see the reporting from back in the day about that divorce because the articles, you know, they mention everything that I've just told you. Yeah. But they don't draw any conclusions about like, hmm, weird. And then he went and got reward money.
Starting point is 01:42:45 Yeah. And hmm, he seems like a really bad dude. Yeah. And oh, maybe we made the wrong call here. Judson Harmon, who defended Sheriff Shipp and his band of douchebags, went on to become a two-term governor for Ohio. And he later became the U.S. Attorney General under President Grover Cleveland, where he was a real douche the whole time. Noah Parton and Stiles Hutchins, Ed Johnson's two black defense attorneys, fled Chattanooga after the trial. Yeah, I have no fucking doubt. Yeah,
Starting point is 01:43:18 so they had been in Chattanooga for many years, but it just wasn't safe anymore. Noah Pardon eventually landed in St. Louis, Missouri, and in 1935, he became the city's first black prosecuting attorney. Wow. Stiles Hutchins landed in Peoria, Illinois, and he practiced law and then eventually went back to being a barber. He lived to be 98. He died in 1950. Holy shit.
Starting point is 01:43:42 Yes. And he had actually, before all this, held elected office. I mean Holy shit. Yes. And he had actually before all this held elected office. I mean, wild. Wow. Supreme Court Justice John Marshall Harlan, who actually listened to Ed Johnson's defense team, was not fully appreciated when he was alive or even for several decades after he died because he was kind of this nutty white guy who'd been born into privilege but for some reason wasn't a dick but history has been kind to him and he is now known as one of the best supreme court justices of his day wow isn't that wild how things can turn i mean all the so-called heroes of this story from back in the day yeah we now look at them and we think what assholes right okay super super fun fact john marshall harlan's grandson also named john
Starting point is 01:44:35 marshall harlan went on to become a supreme court justice holy shit right get out of town! That's amazing! Nevada Taylor, the woman who was raped outside the cemetery by someone, never recovered. She never went back to work. She was rarely seen in public. After the mob lynched Ed Johnson, her health began to fail. She had a sister who lived in Ohio, and she begged her father to take her to Ohio. Oh my gosh. She didn't want to be in Ohio, and she begged her father to take her to Ohio. Oh, my gosh. She didn't want to be in Chattanooga anymore. So she moved to Ohio, and she died six weeks later.
Starting point is 01:45:14 It was a little over a year after Ed Johnson had been lynched. She was only 23 years old. Oh, my gosh. When the Chattanooga Daily Times reported on her death, they never mentioned Ed's lynching, only that he was a rapist. And they were sure to mention that the people of Chattanooga had done nothing but be good to Nevada and her whole family, and they'd never once shamed her. In fact, newspapers all over America carried the story that Nevada died of, quote, nervous prostration brought on by an assault committed on her by Ed Johnson, a Negro. Wow.
Starting point is 01:45:58 Suicide, right? Or just terrible mental health, fine. Yeah. Fine. Yeah. It drives me nuts that they wouldn't even entertain the idea that, hmm, this woman was a victim of some crime. Yeah. That the justice system was totally mishandled. And then we lynched an innocent man. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:46:26 And, oh, mysteriously, she dies a year later. But that's not our fault. That's his fault. Yeah. Okay. Ed Johnson was buried three miles outside of Chattanooga in Pleasant Gardens Cemetery, which was an old cemetery for black people. The cemetery has since been abandoned. I watched a YouTube video of this guy walking through it. You talk about chilling.
Starting point is 01:46:47 Mostly because it's this huge cemetery that has just been abandoned. But it's where two of the Scottsboro Boys were buried. Yes. I mean, it's this very, it's really, really sad. It's this prominent cemetery for black people that has just been closed down. Wow. The last people who were buried in it, you know people that has just been closed down. Wow. The last people who were buried in it, you know, it's like 1960 or something. Wow. But it's where Ed Johnson's tombstone still stands. And his tombstone bears an inscription with his final words. God bless you all. I am an innocent man.
Starting point is 01:47:23 God bless you all. I am an innocent man. Brandy, the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice. That's something I just made up myself. That is not lifted from MLK. And that's why I'm happy to tell you that in 2000, 94 years after an angry white mob lynched Ed Johnson, a Hamilton County criminal judge overturned his conviction on the grounds that he'd never had a fair trial. Wow. And in 2013, the Southern Center for Human Rights created Noah Pardon and Stiles Hutchins Fellowships. And the awards go to deserving attorneys, and they honor Noah and Stiles for their courage
Starting point is 01:48:07 and their work on Ed Johnson's appeal. Wow. And in 2016, a diverse group of Chattanoogans formed the Ed Johnson Project. They're working on a memorial and a documentary about Ed Johnson. And if you'd like to donate, their website is edjohnsonproject.com. I was going to say, how is this not a movie? Oh, I know.
Starting point is 01:48:27 Well, and the other thing they want to do is they want to get plaques for that bridge where these two innocent black men were lynched. Because right now you just walk on it and there's – but I don't know. Maybe people don't want to be bummed out, but I say, you know, fuck off. Yeah. And that is the story of the lynching of Ed Johnson something to be said about not making people depressed on a bridge though oh my god you're right you're right maybe I don't know what the solution is to that maybe you ended with an uplifting yeah on an uplifting note yeah and that is the story of the lynching of Ed Johnson and the first and so far only criminal trial in the history of the United States Supreme Court. That was amazing.
Starting point is 01:49:15 Oh. And terrible. Yeah. I want to go to Chattanooga so bad. Yeah. Kristen, we could do a story about bumfuck Missouri at this point and we'd want to go there so bad I would love to go to bumfuck Missouri I would absolutely I'm dying to go to bumfuck Missouri
Starting point is 01:49:35 do they have a restaurant right exactly do they have a store that I can walk in and buy things sign me up you know what bumfuck Missouri sounds like a place where I could buy apple butter. I bet you could. There's a whole apple butter store. Let me tell you. You put me in a general store in Bumfuck anywhere, I will buy the apple butter. You know how David likes his apple butter? How does he love it?
Starting point is 01:50:01 What? I think he might be a serial killer what are you talking about cracker okay cheddar cheese oh no no apple butter no i ew he's like those serial killers who do the slice of cheese on the apple pie that's what he does too right i've never seen him do it but he claims that he does that well obviously serial killers don't operate you know in the light oh that's terrible yeah although okay you about to defend him i do like a an apple and cheese tray you know what i hate that you said that i do too oh god this makes me even more terrible. You know what I like on my apple and cheese tray? Some crackers. Uh-huh. Judge not, lest ye be judged.
Starting point is 01:50:52 That's right. My second Bible verse of the day. Oh. Yeah, but I really want to go to Chattanooga. Yeah. This is turning into quite the episode. Hoo doggies. You had like five trials in your case.
Starting point is 01:51:10 Well, full disclosure, I've flirted with that case just a little bit before and then been like, ee, ee, ee, ee, ee, because it's a long one. It is a massive. But man. It is a massive dong. Okay. All right. That's enough.
Starting point is 01:51:24 It's average size. No. I don't know. It was something about a week off. I was like, I want to do. I'm going to. Let me waddle in here with my giant nuts. That's exactly what happened.
Starting point is 01:51:38 Yeah. Yeah. Hope I didn't choke you. Oh, God. You know, if I did choke you, I'd leave your dead body in here for several days because I'm just a normal guy. That's just what you do. I'm a totally normal dude. And I'd be like, Norm, I did something terrible.
Starting point is 01:51:51 I killed her. But certainly don't put me away. Should we move on to questions from our Discord? I think we should do questions from the Discord. But first off, how do they get in here? They just have to join our Patreon at the $5 level or higher. Why are you moving around like that? And they get right in the Discord.
Starting point is 01:52:11 It's like I'm riding a horse. Yeah, but they can hear you and they're like, what's happening? Did you think I was riding a horse? I did not. I thought I did it so convincingly. Oh, no. M. Narbarian says, Brandy, any tips for surviving COVID? Just tested positive.
Starting point is 01:52:33 I'm so sorry. That is terrible. Well, I mean, I lived on my couch for basically two weeks. And find yourself some kind of enjoyment through that. Like we played a lot of a lot of switch, binged some shows. Yeah. Try to keep yourself as entertained as possible. It is miserable.
Starting point is 01:52:54 And I'm so sorry you're going through that. Didn't you try to do some walks? Did that help? That actually helped a lot. I did. I did walks around my neighborhood in the evenings because that actually like increases your oxygen levels. So yeah, if you're feeling up to it, try some mild walking.
Starting point is 01:53:10 I mean, these were like the slowest walks. Right. People probably thought there was, you know, I had some kind of. I mean, they probably knew you had COVID. They might have known I had COVID. In these times. Yeah. They probably knew.
Starting point is 01:53:22 Yeah. Kay Burns asks, apple cider or hot chocolate? Don't make me choose. Yeah, why would you make me choose? I mean, obviously not at the same time. No, okay. You know how I like my apple cider? I dunk Velveeta in it and I let it melt.
Starting point is 01:53:39 I was like, what the fuck do you do to apple cider? I'm just a totally normal guy who puts Velveeta in his apple cider. Okay, I'm going to say at this particular moment I'm feeling hot chocolate because I have no hot chocolate in my home and I've been wanting it for a few days. All we have is apple cider. I'll send you home with some. Don't you worry. Don't you worry. You pretty little thing.
Starting point is 01:54:04 Duncy Monkey. Serial killer are you? Do you brush your teeth before or after breakfast? You gotta brush them after breakfast. What, are you gonna go down there and drink orange juice with toothpaste mouth? Oh, God. That's the worst. It is the worst.
Starting point is 01:54:18 The worst. Oh. What? What? Adriel. What? Are there any Christmas songs you hate? Oh, my God.
Starting point is 01:54:27 Christmas shoes. I'd like to buy these shoes for my mama, please. It's Christmas Eve and these shoes are just her size. Okay, Norman says that that song is only played in Kansas City. No! Norman says that that song is only played in Kansas City. No! He claims that before he came to Kansas City, he'd never heard that awful song.
Starting point is 01:54:53 Daddy says there's not much time. You guys, it's about... She's been sick for quite a while, and I know these shoes will make her smile. And I want her to look beautiful if mama meets Jesus. God. It is terrible. It is terrible. It's really bad. Is that not a song that's played everywhere?
Starting point is 01:55:21 I mean, it made me like second guess myself. But when I lived in North Carolina, I feel like I didn't hear it. And yeah, you do hear it a lot in Kansas City. We hear it a lot. We love Christmas shoes in Kansas City. No, we don't. I don't. Somebody does, because that fucker is
Starting point is 01:55:38 just playing all the time. It's on a loop! Christy Source Rex asked, what is London getting for Christmas this year? She's five months old and she'll have no idea that it's Christmas. So Santa's bringing her diapers. Cool. Whoa.
Starting point is 01:55:55 Yeah. So for Henry this year, I just got him clothes because I was like, he's, you know, he's not going to know. Babies. You know, he's not going to know. Babies. And I was legit like, okay, what? I'm going to buy presents for London, wrap them all up, and then I'm going to have to fucking open them? Yeah.
Starting point is 01:56:13 No. Absolutely not. How will you play Best Fiends while you do it? You only have so many arms. I only have so many arms. I'm not Octopus Mom. Ooh, Silent Shower asks, are you following the story of the monoliths appearing and disappearing any theories have you followed this at all
Starting point is 01:56:30 not really all I know is everybody says aliens that's so dumb aliens why it's like a 10 foot monolith who's carrying that in and no one noticed? Well, not aliens.
Starting point is 01:56:49 Aliens dropped it from the sky. Okay. It's solidified alien shit is what it is. They're all filled up on their planet, so they got to drop their stuff? It was like one of those things where they accidentally like evacuated the waste system and then she dropped right there into the desert.
Starting point is 01:57:12 You guys should see her face. For the record, I don't actually believe that, but it could be aliens. She does. She wants to sound
Starting point is 01:57:20 a little smart by being like, I don't know, but she does. Shmarles Barkley. Earmuffs. Yay or nay? Yaymarle Sparkly. Earmuffs. Yay or nay? Yay. I'm all for earmuffs. I think they're so cute. They're so cute. I have a pair of like
Starting point is 01:57:31 Kate Spade ones that are, they're like comically large. Maybe they were designed for a larger eared person. And they probably fit you perfectly. They're like a little bit fuzzy and then they have a bow on the top no i like them um i run with like it's not really earmuffs but it's like a band
Starting point is 01:57:52 do you wear the like the stupid ones hold on hold on are you judging when i'm running by no i have like a nike like headband thing that you put over your ears. Just pictured you with those little knit ear covers. Knit ear covers? Yeah, it's like a little. Like socks for your ears? Yes. No.
Starting point is 01:58:16 You don't wear those? No, I do not. But I can't rule things out. I'm wearing a lot of stuff. I don't want to say make them in your size. How dare you? I wear a lot of stuff I said I'd never wear. I run with a lot of stuff. I don't know if they make them in your size. How dare you? I wear a lot of stuff I said I'd never wear. I run with a fanny pack.
Starting point is 01:58:30 In the summer, I wear a visor. I've become very cool over the years. Man, it's so hot. Oh, Carly Whatzerbutt asks, are you going to do another Christmas-themed episode? And the answer is no, because Kristen couldn't play along and didn't even do a Christmas episode.
Starting point is 01:58:48 Wait, what are you talking about? Our first year at the podcast, we agreed to do a Christmas episode, if you'll recall. Okay. And so I did a Santa Claus bank robbery. Oh yeah, you did. And I did the one about cookies. And you did cookies that didn't take place anywhere near Christmas. Yeah, but the concept of bringing cookies to your neighbor is kind of holiday-ish.
Starting point is 01:59:13 No! Do you want to give it another go? I mean, how many Christmas-themed crimes are there? None. Well, you covered the one. I covered the one. So you ruined it. You ruined Christmas.
Starting point is 01:59:28 And now all we can do is just hope for some Christmas shoes. Sarah, I'd like to buy these shoes. Stop. No. No. For my mama, please. It's Christmas Eve with these shoes. Just her size.
Starting point is 01:59:45 Ooh. Barresh wants to know, silliest Christmas traditions? Do you have silly Christmas traditions? Mmm. No. Oh, all of yours are very serious, huh? I take Christmas very seriously. We wear pajamas on Christmas. That's kind of silly.
Starting point is 02:00:02 I actually am offended by this question because to me, this is all about Jesus. All right. Jesus is the reason for the season. He certainly is. And that's why there can be no fun and no laughter and no talking on Christmas. You guys just sit in silence. Think about Jesus. That's how he would have wanted it.
Starting point is 02:00:23 Yeah, I think so. The Lord wants us to be miserable. Hey, okay, this is not at all related to that question. Okay. But did you see that the Renaissance Festival is doing a Christmas lights display? A Renaissance-themed Christmas lights display. Well, that doesn't make sense. I mean, what?
Starting point is 02:00:44 There's dragons. Oh, that's't make sense. I mean, what? There's dragons. Oh, that's cool. And knights. That's cool. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's called Knights of Lights or something like that. And you drive through it.
Starting point is 02:00:56 But knights is spelled like, you know, K-N-I-G-H-T. How many times are you going to go? Well, it's kind of expensive, so only once. How much is it? $25 per car. Oh, normally those things, like, you do, like, a donation. Yeah, no. No.
Starting point is 02:01:14 They're trying to recoup because they couldn't have a festival this year. Oh. Sparky the Dragon is going to be there. And so is Santa Claus. Well, I should fucking hope so i hope he's in a suit of armor um yeah i'm probably gonna go yeah and you'll have to load up your car so you get your 25 dollars well see here's the deal what if you have more than eight people no it's 45 dollars wow so you can't bring a bus or you gotta charge you gotta
Starting point is 02:01:48 pay the 45 they really thought it all through they were like we know how cheap people operate that's right my family did um is it the lakeview lights yeah okay christmas in the park oh my god yeah we all loaded into my parents suv yeah and by by all, I mean my mom and dad, Kyla, Jay, and Allie, and Norman and I. Yeah. And, you know, Norman and I, because we didn't have kids, we were relegated to the cheap seats. So, you know, his foot was in my mouth. You know, it was just like a mess back there. And, of course, it was icy out and there was like a line a mile long.
Starting point is 02:02:22 Yeah, it takes forever to go through that. Because it's free. Yeah. I bet you if they charge 25 bucks a car, you'd zip right through. But anyway, someone behind us lost control of their vehicle on a patch of ice. And I was like, this is how the entire family dies. Waiting to enjoy the holiday lights with my husband's foot in my mouth. to enjoy the holiday lights with my husband's foot in my mouth.
Starting point is 02:02:50 David and I did Christmas in the Park last year. He does it every year. That was my first time ever doing it. Well, he's a Missouri guy. So, yeah, you have to. Yeah, he grew up right over there. Yeah. And so we went and got food, like went and got a bunch of stuff, like through the drive-thru. And then we got in line and we ate our food and inched along.
Starting point is 02:03:05 And then by the time we were done eating, we were at the lights. It was perfect. He's like, this is how you do it. This is how you do it. So let me get this straight. I just told you my miserable story about that. And then you're like, oh, you know what happened to me? Something great.
Starting point is 02:03:22 You know, so here's the worst part. What? We got two drinks. We each got a drink with our meal. And then we also got a milkshake and we only had two cup holders. I feel so sorry for you. So we had nowhere to put the milkshake, Kristen. Yeah, I almost died.
Starting point is 02:03:40 I know. My hand got really cold. Wow. You know, we just talked about a lynching. But your story about your cold hand really made me feel something. It was really cold. Where did you get the food from? I knew you were going to ask that
Starting point is 02:04:05 Why are you making that face at me? Is it a shameful place? It is It's Chick-fil-A It is Chick-fil-A Oh great Oh great You homophobic, sexist shit
Starting point is 02:04:17 You went through your little Christmas lights Yeah I hope your hand was cold It was really cold And that's when I learned about my Chick-fil-A sauce. Food aversion during my pregnancy. Well. That was my one food aversion during my pregnancy.
Starting point is 02:04:34 It was Chick-fil-A sauce. The smell of it made my stomach churn. You know what isn't cold, though? The flames of hell. Which is where you'll go for supporting chick-fil-a no i i understand they make some good food there damn it you know who makes the better sandwich though popeyes yeah yeah i haven't had it. What the?
Starting point is 02:05:05 Okay, first of all, it didn't exist yet, then. Like, it's come out since then. Yeah, I know, but it's been around for a long time. Brandy, don't make that face at me. You're the one who came over here, and you were like, you know what I'm doing tonight. I'm so excited. Like, we're going to have to wrap this thing up soon so I can go do it. Honestly, I was, like, feeling a little nervous because I really really loved this story and I put a lot of thought into it.
Starting point is 02:05:28 But then I was like, I know Brandy is like itching to go get a McRib right now. Yeah, serious dinner plans, folks. David and I are getting McRibs tonight. Okay, but it's back today, Kristen. Yeah, and so you're going today. Today is the first day. So you're an enthusiast. I'm just saying, like, we've had the Popeye's spicy chicken sandwich for quite some time now.
Starting point is 02:05:51 Yeah, I still haven't had it. What's wrong with you? I don't know. I just haven't had it. It's not like I'm anti-Popeye's spicy. No, I'm asking what's wrong with you. Nothing is wrong with me. And I'll tell you, I haven't had Chick-fil-A since I had it at Christmas in the Park last year either.
Starting point is 02:06:11 Okay. I'll tell you what not to get at Popeye's. What? Their mac and cheese. Is it not good? Mm-mm. Not good. Very gluey.
Starting point is 02:06:20 Mm-mm. Yeah, I want... Sorely disappointing. Yeah. I cried that day. We've mentioned multiple times that we do not handle food disappointment well. No, we really don't. And so like Norman and I, we went to Popeye's one day.
Starting point is 02:06:36 It was during COVID. And we ate in the parking lot. That was like our meal out. And we, you know, faced a shrub. So it was pretty nice. And we were both so excited because we love Popeye's spicy chicken sandwich. Like, mm, mm, mm. And, you know, we got the mac and cheese and all so excited.
Starting point is 02:06:55 And Norman, you know, that boy will throw a fit over bad food and he was not happy. I will eat even bad mac and cheese. Yes. But I wasn't pleased. Didn't like it one bit. Nope. Is it time for inductions? I believe it is, that magical time.
Starting point is 02:07:15 Magical time of the show where we induct people into the Supreme Court. This week, we are reading your names and your favorite cookie. What's that? Your favorite cookie. What's that? That's right. That's right. It's no longer books?
Starting point is 02:07:31 Yeah. Calm down, lady. We're talking cookies. Hmm. Caitlin. Peanut butter chip. Dylan Nardoni. Homemade chocolate chip cookies.
Starting point is 02:07:42 Delaney. Iced lemon. Tasha. Fresh sugar cookies. Delaney. Iced lemon. Tasha. Fresh sugar cookies. Zoe. White chocolate and macadamia nut. Versi. Raspberry white chocolate macadamia nut.
Starting point is 02:07:53 That's very fancy. Kicked it up a notch. My God. Allie D. Clerk. Soft chocolate chip. Shelby. Girl Scout Samoas. Chelsea H.
Starting point is 02:08:04 Ooh, peanut blossoms. Tiffany. Girl Scout Samoas. Chelsea H. Ooh, Peanut Blossoms. Tiffany. Girl Scout Samoas. Aw. Jenna Cooney. Oatmeal Chocolate Chip. Elizabeth Doering. Chocolate Chip.
Starting point is 02:08:15 Kylie. Frosted Sugar. Janice Sinaiki. Janice? Oh, my God. I want to make them so complicated. Janice Sinaiki. Chocolate chip.
Starting point is 02:08:30 Sharon. Lemon sugar. Gina Ray. Annie Crumble cookie. Huh, it's a franchise in the West. Hmm. Need to know more about this. Christine Marty.
Starting point is 02:08:43 Snickerdoodle. Sammy Shockley. Chocolate chip cookie straight from the oven. Christine Marty. Snickerdoodle. Sammy Shockley. Chocolate chip cookies straight from the oven. Andrew Dodosevich. Chewy chips ahoy. Megan T. Cinnamon. Oh, I'm sorry.
Starting point is 02:08:59 I'm about to pee my... Megan T. Cinnamon cheesecake. Eileen Joyce. Peanut Butter. Nicole D. Snickerdoodles. Claire Lynch. Peanut Butter Cookies or GTFO.
Starting point is 02:09:13 Welcome. To the Supreme Court. Woo. Woo. Thank you guys for all of your support. We appreciate it so much. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, Patreon.
Starting point is 02:09:32 Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and head on over to Apple Podcasts. Leave us a rating, leave us a review, and then be sure to join us next week. When we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts.
Starting point is 02:10:00 For this episode, I got my info from Douglas O. Linder's website, FamousTrials.com, Newspapers.com, Wikipedia.com, and EdJohnsonProject.com. I got my info from articles for the Daily Mail, the New York Post, and the Sun Sentinel. For a full list of our sources, visit LGTCPodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff. Isn't it wikipedia.org? Oh, yeah. Ha ha ha!

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