Let's Go To Court! - 154: PATREON EXCLUSIVE: Typhoid Mary & Scrunchies

Episode Date: December 30, 2020

Hello you skeezy scunches! We’re off this week for New Year’s, but we’ll be back next week with a brand spankin’ new episode. We hope you’re having a safe and happy holiday season! And if you enjoy this episode and feel so inclined, please join our Patreon! You’ll automatically get 17 bonus episodes to binge!   In this episode, Brandi starts us off with an old timey story that may have you screaming “TOO SOON!”  In the early 1900s, germs were a novel concept. Washing your hands was an optional activity. The idea of being an asymptomatic carrier was nearly unheard of. So when a sanitation engineer named George Soper approached a woman and demanded samples of her blood, urine and feces, she scared him away at forkpoint. She scared the next doctor away, too. But the public health community would not be deterred. They were convinced that Mary Mallon was an asymptomatic spreader of Typhoid. And they had to stop her. Then Kristin tells us about a nightclub singer named Rommy Revson. Rommy had gorgeous, long hair. She even used it as part of her act. For her first couple of songs, she’d have her hair clipped up with a clampy ring-shaped thingy. Then she’d take it down. But then she had to do the rest of her songs holding that damn hair clip! Rommy knew there had to be a better way. She wanted something that could hold her hair up, without damaging it, and that she could slip on her wrist when she wasn’t wearing it. But that thing didn’t exist. She had to invent it.  And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases.   For this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Typhoid Mary's tragic tale exposed the health impacts of ‘super-spreaders’" by Nina Strochlic, National Geographic “Was The Real Typhoid Mary A Reckless Superspreader Or The Victim Of An Unjust System?” All That’s Interesting “The Frightening Legacy of Typhoid Mary” by Veronique Greenwood, Smithsonian Magazine “The Most Dangerous Woman in America: In Her Own Words” pbs.org “Mary Mallon” wikipedia.org   For this episode, Kristin pulled from:  “The Queen of the Scrunchie” episode of the podcast “Every Little Thing” “Night club singer, Scrunchie inventor Rommy Revson relocates to Rogers” by Kim Souza for Talk Business

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A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. Hey. Hey, guys. I hope your 2020 is coming to a delightful end. What? It's such a ridiculous thing to say. Hey, I hope the shittiest year on the book is coming to a great end. Real upswing at the end.

Or it might, it might. You don't know. What could possibly happen? You could win the lottery. And then you could get murdered and buried under a concrete pad in someone's backyard. Okay, Abraham. That's just one of the... God, poor Abraham Shakespeare. Yeah, I knew he had a really epic...

I mean... Yeah, that's an amazing name. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, this started out weird. It sure did start out weird. You're probably wondering what's going on, so we'll tell you. We're here to tell you about a little gift we have for you.

Oh, boy, do we have a gift for you. That's right. We're going to try and end your 2020 on a high note. Then this is all it takes. Yes. An episode from our Patreon. This, I hate to excite you, hate to titillate you, but on Patreon at the $5 level, we do a monthly bonus episode.

And you girls wanted to, you you know take the week off enjoy enjoy the holidays with a portion of our family with our safe covid pod hopefully safe and so we're re-releasing well no for the first time ever very first time the world premiere yes of our patreon episode i love this episode so you may have seen us referring to people on our social media as skeezy skunches and you've thought what the hell are they talking about you're about to find out it's in this episode you skeezy skunk you skeezy skunches and by the way that's a compliment it is it's of the highest form I can tell you're offended right now. Just stay tuned. Just wait. So here, for one night only. One night only.

That's beautiful. Thank you. I won an Oscar. I was just calling myself Jennifer Hudson in case you didn't get the reference like Dixon Sider. Okay, guys. Episode 152? Yeah.

Brandi made a hilarious joke. It was a bit of a thinker, apparently. She made it twice in that episode. Dixon Cider. I did not get it. And I'm still salty about it. A few days after we record every episode, we both listen to it for editing purposes. And I was sitting there listening, and I heard Brandy say,

Dixon Cider. And it was like it clicked. And I was like, oh my God, it's a dirty joke. I did not get it at all. Now I get it. Good job, Brandy. Thank you. Geniuses are rarely appreciated in their time.

That's exactly right. All right, well, we hope you are enjoying the end of 2020 as much as you possibly can and please enjoy our Patreon episode. Our gift to you moi. That was me kissing you. Gross! It's COVID Kristen. Well it was a safe kiss even though it

sounded unsafe. Really, really unsafe. Hang on, hang on let me No I hate it. No thank you. Sorry guys. I'm so sorry that Kristen just did that to your ears. Well it's 2020. Alright, thank you. Sorry, guys. I'm so sorry that Kristen just did that to your ears. Well, it's 2020. All right, guys. Thank you so much and enjoy.

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about scrunchies. And I'll be talking about a super spreader. Did you come into contact

with this person recently? I don't know. Did I? No, I didn't. For the record. Okay. It's the bonus episode. Welcome to the bonus episode, guys. Also, it's after dark. Obviously. Kristen's had two glasses of wine to the bonus episode, guys. Also, it's after dark. Obviously. Kristen's had two glasses of wine.

I'm sorry, guys. I've had one and I have a second here, but I'm going to pace myself. Well, that's admirable. Not a tactic I'm taking, obviously. So it's been a day, Kristen. It has been a day. You guys, should we just tell them? I think we should just tell them.

I mean, these are our people. You guys, as you all know, Brandy sucks. No. No. So, you guys. Getting some feedback all at once. Yeah, so the episode with DP has been out for a while now, like a couple days, and like all of a sudden we got some negative feedback. People are not a fan of Christine.

Christine needs to keep her political opinions to herself. We've had to fire Christine from the podcast. Yeah, I told – because I'm a catty, rude person, someone complained about Christine and her political opinions. And so on Facebook, I promised the man that Christine was going to be fired. And we were going to replace her with a nice, polite white gal named Kristen. And we just hope this works out well. No, the real deal is we got our first negative review that mentions me by name. Yep.

It hurt my feelings. Listen, I've been here. Old bro branding. Many a time. But the interesting thing is you predicted. I predicted exactly what your negative review would be. Wow. What an asshole.

And what did I say to you today? Let you two crazy liberals left you in charge of the podcast. Look what you did. Oh, yeah. We triggered the Trump people. That's right. Which I was not aware they were so sensitive. I was not aware they listened to this podcast.

I wasn't either. They are coming out of the woodwork. You guys, I said too many things to are coming out of the woodwork. You guys, I said too many things to the Trumpers and, you know. I guess they weren't too offended by him not denouncing white supremacy, but they were offended by me and my dad lightly mocking

Donald Trump. I knew so. Anyway. I should probably stop now. Yeah, probably. Okay. Like I said, Christine has been fired. Christine has been fired, and we, and Kristen is. I'm a right wing neck job, so it's going to be fine. It's going to be good. I feel like I don't have anything exciting to talk about because we just saw each other a day ago.

You know what? I'm not excited to see you either. No, I'm very excited to see you. You're saying you don't have anything new. And we don't have to plug the Patreon because that would be... Yeah, because these people are already there. You guys stay in the Patreon. Hey, did you know that Patreon that you're

already a part of? It's awesome. Stay in there. Oh, oh, hey. Hey, I've got a bit of business to tackle. Can you talk about the merch? No. Well, I mean, you guys, we have merch. Please check it out.

Oh, for real though, if you're a Bob Moss, you get a discount and the discount code is on the Patreon page. Yeah. In a post that's viewable only to you

at the Bob Moss level. Boy, it sounds pretty exclusive. It is. No, what I was going to say is I've noticed we've had a lot of people signing up at the $10 level and not giving us their addresses. You get a card and a sticker at the $10 level, but I can't guess your address. So make sure you go in there and put your address in.

She tries to guess, and it's just a waste of money. So, yeah, I mean, you're entitled to that benefit. You're getting that benefit. So if you want it, put in your address. If you want it, here it is. Come and get it. But you better hurry because it's going fast. Beautiful singing.

Beautiful. Brandi, I couldn't help but notice that you did not choose to cover Ryan Ferguson. Wow. Just calling me right out on that. Right. Okay. So. What happened?

I watched the documentary on it. I'm going to cover it. Oh, sure. I am. I just, it was way too much to try and put together in the turnaround time that we had from when we recorded on Wednesday night. Except for, you know, you promised. I didn't promise.

I said, maybe if I can get it together in time I'll do it okay do you want me to promise you right now I promise I'll do it for Wednesday okay I don't think she has the nuts I have the nuts and also I just watched that documentary

and boy is he a good looking fella oh my god I know i know i know he is super hot yes guys google ryan ferguson and if you need to pause the podcast right to you know look deeply into his dreamy eyes he has has beautiful eyes. You know what? I, seriously. I thought that attractiveness would get you a certain number of privileges in life.

Yeah. I'm shocked someone that good looking went to prison. I know. His dad said, well, maybe I should save it. What, save it? No, I mean, his dad just said

like from a very young age, they knew he was going to be, like, a superior, like, physical specimen. Well, yeah, I knew it, too. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Are we getting a little gross here?

Just two 30-something ladies getting a little steamed up. Steamed up over Riot for being the same. But don't Google him, because I'm going to do the case. If you Google him, just do an image search. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's see what pops up. I bet it's beautiful. Oh, my.

Oh, my God. There's a picture of him with a glass of wine and a tank top. Oh, yeah. Yep. Jesus Christ picture of him with a glass of wine and a tank top. Oh, yeah. Yep. Jesus Christ. Okay. Okay. But I hate.

Okay. When he did the MTV show, I hated his hair. It's the hair. I knew you would say something about the hair. You know what that hair is? I believe that hair was popular when he went away. Yeah. I think that's pretty common.

Yeah, it is. Yeah. Oh, Claire, could you bleep that, what I just said? If you scroll down here, there's a picture of his abs. Where? Oh, my. Oh, my Lord. Oh, my Lord.

Mm-mm-mm. All right, enough of this You want to talk about a super spreader What if I wasn't paying attention The whole time You're just staring at Ryan Ferguson Okay tell me your boring story that's not Anything to do with Ryan Ferguson Okay most of this information Comes from a really good article for the National Geographic by Nina Strachlik. I love her.

And another article for allthatsinteresting.com. There was no author listed for that one. I hate it when they do that. I don't like that. There was no author listed for that one. I hate it when they do that. I don't like that. And the idea to cover this case came from my stepdad, who has amazing case suggestions.

Steve always has great case suggestions. He doesn't listen to the fucking podcast. He just knows. Okay. Okay. All right. Kristen, imagine for me, if you would, the following scenario. You're a super hot blonde woman with giant ears.

All the better to hear you with, my dear. Working as a cook for a wealthy family in their Park Avenue brownstone in New York City. Okay. One afternoon, a man walks into the kitchen in which you are working. You've never seen him before, but he seems to be some kind of authority figure. Then, seemingly out of

nowhere, he demands samples of your urine, feces, and blood. What? What do you do? A man I've never encountered before. Yeah. Says I need a sample of your blood, your urine, and your feces. For what purpose? Well, that would be what I would ask him.

That would be your question? Yes. Okay. I wouldn't just drop trow in the kitchen. All right. Well, this is exactly what happened to 37-year-old Mary Mallon one March afternoon in 1907. And she promptly grabbed a carving fork off the counter and ran the man out of her kitchen. Worth noting.

Okay, Claire, bleep that too. Bleep that too. Bleep that too. bleep that too bleep that too yes Kristen sorry guys I'm a genius worth noting Mary was described as being 5 foot 6 with blonde hair

and clear blue eyes and she reportedly had the perfectly proportionate ears for her bed size. How dare you, ma'am? The man wasn't there asking for samples for any nefarious reason. His name was George Soper, and while he was a civil engineer by training, he was working at this time as an expert in sanitation. More specifically, in his current capacity, he was known as an epidemic fighter, and he'd

been tracking Mary Mallon for quite some time. George Soper had been called by a wealthy Oyster Bay landlord to figure out why six of the 11 people in the family he'd rented a house to for the summer had come down with typhoid fever. Soper had been working as an epidemic fighter for the New York Health Department for some time by then. And he developed a theory that someone could be a carrier of typhoid without being sick themselves. This was like a really novel concept at the time. Hygiene was not like, you know, super top of the list at the time. It wasn't cool. And the idea of germs was like just kind of like starting.

It was a strange European concept. Yes, it was. So he had kind of put together this theory and he thought that if he could track down the exposure at this Oyster Bay house, maybe he could prove his hypothesis. So he started looking into who had been working in the home and he quickly focused his attention on the cook, Mary Mallon. She had been working in the home for just three weeks before the first person became ill. Oh, wow. Yeah. So Soper started looking into this, and he started to work backwards, tracking Mary's previous employment.

And what he found was alarming. Between 1900 and 1907, Mary Mallon had worked in the kitchen of several wealthy New York families. And she'd left no less than 22 people infected with typhoid in her wake. Typhoid in her wake. Typhoid fever is a bacterial infection typically spread through food and water. Whoa. I didn't mean to turn you on here. Kristen's stripping down.

And she didn't do it like a normal person. She like shimmy. She wished she could shimmy like her sister Kate. Oh, I wish that I could shimmy like my sister Kate. Oh, I wish that I could shimmy like my sister Kate. Okay, so typhoid is... I know the rest of the words if you want to hear more. She shimmies like the jelly on a plate. Anyway.

Are you distracted? I'm very distracted. So typhoid is a bacterial infection. It's usually spread through contaminated food or water, and it is caused by the salmonella bacteria. Usually patients get a high fever and diarrhea. And this was at this time, like there were regular outbreaks. And this was before antibiotics were delivered, developed, not delivered. They had them.

They just weren't delivering them. But God help you if you wanted to get them. So the really ill patients would often become delirious and then ultimately die. Would they just get so dehydrated? Was that okay? Yeah. Because all the liquid was coming out their buttholes? That's correct.

And as I mentioned at this time, there weren't any like sanitation regulations in place. The disease was pretty common. And by this time, New York had battled multiple outbreaks. So in 1906, the year that this guy Soper began his investigation, a reported 639 people had died of typhoid in New York. This wasn't like the biggest outbreak that had been, but it seemed like it was really isolated. And it seemed, in Soper's opinion, that he could track this outbreak to possibly a single carrier. That was his hypothesis. And he believed that that carrier likely had no idea that they were infecting anybody else

because they weren't showing any symptoms themselves. Sure. else because they weren't showing any symptoms themselves. Sure. So in his investigation, he learned that Mary Mallon often served on Sundays ice cream with fresh peaches, like sliced peaches. Sounds delicious. Okay. But it's not.

Not with time for it. Sounds delicious, right? Yeah. It is not a dish that is cooked. a dish that is cooked. And so if she was taking her germ infested hands and slicing those fresh, delicious peaches, getting all those juices going and mixing in the microbes all over her hands and then serving those without it ever being cooked, there would be no better way to pass on an illness. I know that's supposed to be disgusting, but all I'm picturing is ice cream and peaches. It sounds great.

It took about four months of investigating, but by March of 1907, George Soper believed that he could prove his theory about asymptomatic disease spreaders. That doesn't seem that long to prove such a big thing. So by all accounts, Mary Mallon had never seemed sickly to any of her employers. So he just needed to track her down and get samples of her blood, urine, and feces. No big deal. Sure. And he tracked her to that Park Avenue brownstone where she was working,

and to be fair, he did explain that he thought she might be unknowingly spreading typhoid before asking for the various biological samples. But nonetheless, he was run off at fork point. Did you just say fork point? I did. I thought she had a knife. No, a carving fork. Oh, okay, okay.

You know, like one of those two-time. Yeah, no, I'm picturing it. I just, I've never heard run off at fork point. No, I don't think anybody's ever said run off at fork point. I think that's a brand new original. Oh, you're such a unique woman. I mean, this was likely because in general at the time, like I said, there was very little understanding about disease in general. Get ready to experience an all new Don Valley North Lexus.

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A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. And the idea that you were causing something that was killing people would be horribly offensive. No, I'm not. I'm a nice person. But Mary herself admitted to rarely washing her hands. Well, okay. How common was it? It was not common to wash your hands at all. How common was it? It was not common to wash your hands at all. Like I said, the concept of germs and germs causing illness was like brand new.

Yeah. Yeah. And so the average person wasn't taking those sanitation steps. Oh. Yeah, so she's just in there, you know, cutting those peaches up right after she wiped that snot away from her upper lip. Licking her fingers. Oh, yeah. Scratching her butthole. Yeah, directly to the hole.

Yes, Kristen. Absolutely. I'm not making this up. I can tell you that. Sometimes you got to get one finger, right? Oh, okay. Too far. Too far.

These people are paying for this, Brandy. Listen, you started it. So this other woman, Dr. S. Josephine Baker, who happened to be like this up and coming advocate for hygiene and public health. She was called in to explain to Mary why they needed her samples. But she was also chased away. Well, probably because she was like a woman doctor. I don't think so.

So Dr. Baker, her father had actually died of typhoid and she had like made it her mission to promote preventative medicine. And she became the first woman to earn a doctorate in public health. That's amazing. Yes. Yeah. And she said the real tragedy here was that Mary felt like she couldn't trust them. Like there was some like underlying like, you know, plot at play that they were trying to get these samples from her.

She just didn't trust these authority figures. Well, and you wouldn't want to believe what they were saying. Absolutely. So Mary resisted all of these authorities who were trying to bring her in for testing. She, in fact, led them on a wild goose chase like around this property, like literally running from them. She eventually hid in a closet. And they found her because her skirt had gotten caught in the door. Oh, my gosh.

And they were able to find her. So they like pulled her out and five police officers loaded her into like the back of a, I don't know, van, carriage, whatever. It's 1907. And Dr. Baker literally had to sit on her to keep her from jumping out as they took her to get these tests done. Wow. Yeah. And it turned out once they got the results of the test that she was, in fact, a carrier. Well, you really jumped over something there.

So they just, like, forced her to. Yeah. Oh. They forced her to give urine samples, feces samples, and blood samples. Oh, my. They arrested her. Yeah, yeah. I understand.

And forced her to give those samples. Yeah. Yeah, it's not great. It's getting worse. Oh, okay. Okay. give those samples. Yeah. Yeah. It's not great. It's getting worse. Oh, okay. So it was confirmed once they got those samples that she was a carrier for the bacteria Salmonella typhi, which was the bacteria that causes typhoid. So, at this point, she was arrested, and they placed her into forced quarantine at a small cottage on North Brother Island, which is like this little tiny island off of the Bronx.

And they said that it was in the name of public safety. Okay. in the name of public safety. Okay. While quarantined, she was required to give stool and urine samples three times a week. Some of them came back positive and some of them came back negative.

It wasn't consistent. Huh. It was like one-fourth of her samples over the time that she was held in quarantine came back negative for the typhoid bacteria. And she was never sick during any of this time. While she was quarantined, they actually suggested that she remove her gallbladder because they believe that's where the bacteria was housed. But she refused because, number one, she didn't believe that she carried the disease because she'd never been sick. Right.

And second, no one really explained to her what being an asymptomatic carrier was. Yeah. And third, gallbladder removal was super dangerous at this time. People died from it all the time. Yeah. And third, gallbladder removal was super dangerous at this time. People died from it all the time. Yeah. And she feels healthy. Yeah. And here these people are imprisoning her on a little island. Yep. It's funny. I've never heard this story kind of from this perspective. Yeah. And I really feel for her. Yes. Yeah. So Mary became widely known as the first healthy carrier of typhoid. SOPR released this report saying basically that Mary was a danger to society because she could easily spread typhoid fever to others.

News of Mary Mallon's status as a carrier spread through the papers, and she was quickly dubbed Typhoid Mary. There was this very famous illustration of her that kind of became very heavily circulated and just it was like immediately associated with hearing the phrase typhoid mary and it was a a picture of her drop like breathing skulls into a skillet insinuating basically that mary had intentionally spread the disease through her cooking. I'm glad you explained that because it was so subtle I almost didn't get it.

Mary was horribly offended by this nickname that she was given in the public. As you would be. And she was disgusted that her identity had been made public. She never believed it was possible that she was a carrier. And like I said, no one had bothered to explain what the fuck that meant. Why didn't they explain? I don't know. I think they thought that she was combative.

And so they just like, you know, did the bare minimum with her. Yeah, yeah. She was just very adamant. I've never had typhoid. How could I be a carrier? How could I be getting other people sick? The most popular opinion on how Mary became a carrier of typhoid was actually that her mother, and this is confirmed, her mother contracted typhoid while she was pregnant with Mary.

So Mary was likely born with it. Uh-huh. And that's how she became a carrier. Okay, so it wasn't Maybelline. It was... That's correct. Maybe she's born with it. Maybe it's typhoid.

You know, Maybelline was selling typhoid at this time. They shouldn't have, though. I mean, I knew they didn't know better, but they shouldn't have, knowing what we know now. That's right. Wait, so, okay, so if you're born with it, do you just have it forever and you're just always spreading it? Yeah, there's the risk of that. Okay, unless you wash them fangers. Yeah, unless you, you know, practice proper hygiene, which they didn't know about yet.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Unless you, you know, practice proper hygiene, which they didn't know about yet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In June of 1909. I'm so glad you laughed at my Maybelline joke because you guys, I told a fantastic joke.

You guys have probably heard of it by now. It was a joke about a deleted scene from The Sound of Music and it was hilarious. You barely laughed. Cold-blooded.

I didn't think it was that funny. I think you were still sick that day. Is that it? Yeah, it's affected your brain. In June of 1909, Mary was still quarantined on the island. How long had she been quarantined? More than two years. Oh. She wrote her lawyer a letter telling of her plight. She talked about, you know, how she had been held for two years against her will and how her name and nickname were now known worldwide.

Yeah. Here's a few snippets of this letter that she wrote to her lawyer. In reply to Dr. Park of the Board of Health, I will state that I am not segregated with the typhoid patients. There is nobody on this island that has typhoid. There is nobody on this island that has typhoid. There was never any effort by the board to do anything for me except cast me on this island and keep me a prisoner without being sick nor needing medical treatment. In January of 1908, they were about to discharge me when the resident physician came to me and asked me where I was going when I got out of here. Naturally, I said to New York. So there was a stop put to me getting asked me where I was going when I got out of here. Naturally, I said to New York.

So there was a stop put to me getting out of here. Then the supervising nurse told me I was a hopeless case. And if I'd write to this Dr. Darlington, I don't know who the fuck he is, and tell him that I'd go to my sister's in Connecticut, maybe they'd let me out. Now, I have no sister in any state or anywhere in the United States. Then in April, a friend of mine went to Dr. Darlington and asked him when I was to get away. He replied, that woman is all right now and she's a very expensive woman, but I can't let her go myself. The board has to sit. Come around Saturday. When he did, Dr. Darlington told this man, I have nothing more to do with this woman.

Go to this other doctor, Dr. Studdiford. He went to that doctor and he said, I cannot let this woman go. And all of the people that she gave typhoid to and so many deaths occurred in the families that she was with. So Dr. Studdiford said to this man, go and ask Mary Mallon to have the operation performed, to have her gallbladder removed. I'll have the best surgeon in town do the cutting. I said, no, no knife will be put on me. I've nothing the matter with my gallbladder.

Dr. Wilson asked me the very same question. I also told him no. Then he replied, it might not do you any good. Also, the supervising nurse asked me to have the operation performed, and I told her no. And she made the remark, would it not be better for you to have it done than to remain here? I told her no. There's a visiting doctor who came here in October. He did take quite an interest in me.

He really thought I liked it here, that I did not care for my freedom. He asked me if I'd take some medicine if he brought it to me, and I said I would. So he brought me some anti-autotox and some pills. Then Dr. Wilson had already ordered me brewer's yeast. At first, I would not take it. I'm afraid of these people, and I have a good right for when it came to the department, they said, first, it was in my intestinal tract. Later, another said it was in the muscles of my bowels. And then later again, they said it was in my gallbladder. I have been, in fact, a peep show for everybody. Even the interns had to come and see me and ask about the facts already known to the whole wide world. The tuberculosis men would say, there she is, the kidnapped woman. Dr. Park has had me illustrated in Chicago. I wonder how the said Dr. William H. Park would like to be insulted and put in a journal and call him or his wife Typhoid William Park.

So Mary was pissed. I feel terrible. I know. She was being held against her will. And she didn't believe anything the doctors were said because they kept giving her conflicting information. Yeah. And they were just like kept giving her conflicting information. Yeah. And they were just like experimenting on her, essentially. Yeah, yeah.

So she looked herself in the mirror and she said, Let's go to court. Around this time, Mary said, The contention that I am a perpetual menace in the spread of typhoid germs is not true. I am an innocent human being. I have committed no crime and I am treated like an outcast, a criminal. It is unjust, outrageous, uncivilized. In 1909, she sued the New York City Health Department and the case was heard by the New York

Supreme Court. In the court of public opinion, Mary had stirred this kind of big debate over what isn't an individual entitled to as far as autonomy goes? And then what's the state's responsibility as far as a public health crisis? In the court of law, her lawyer argued that she had been imprisoned without due process. In preparation for the trial, Mary had sent bio samples to a private lab.

So she had been like sending samples to a friend or a friend was able to come visit her or something. And she was giving samples of blood and urine and feces to her. That's a good friend. And she was sending them off to this private lab and none of them came back positive for typhoid. Wow. Yeah. So this only strengthens, strengthened Mary's belief that she had been wrongly accused of infecting anybody and that she was not a carrier of the disease. Ultimately, Mary lost her case against the health department and the court declined her release saying it must protect the community against a reoccurrence of spreading the disease. So Mary was sent back to quarantine for another six months. At that time, a new commissioner took over the New York Health

Department. He decided that carriers should no longer be held in quarantine. And so in February of 1910, he agreed that Mary could be released as long as she agreed to stop working as a cook and took reasonable steps to avoid transmitting typhoid to others. So she signed an affidavit saying that she was prepared to change her occupation and that upon her release, she would take hygienic precautions to protect those with whom she came in contact. So she was released, sent back to the mainland. Given one of those Bath and Body Works keychain things. The hand sanitizer.

Yeah, that's right. Initially, she was given a job as a laundress, but it only paid $20 a week as opposed to the $50 a week she could make as a cook. Oh, yeah. And so she changed her name to Mrs. Brown and began working as a cook again. Did she kill people? She worked at a hotel. Oh, no. And a restaurant on Broadway.

Oh, no. And a spa. Oh, my God, Brandy. Well, she really went balls to the wall, didn't she? And a boarding house. No. No, no, no, no, no. And then a hospital. Oh.

Oh, my God. At Sloan Maternity Hospital. He began this investigation just as he had in the past, in the kitchen. And there he found the cook, Mrs. Brown, whom he immediately recognized as Mary Mallon. Mary was sent back to quarantine on North Brother Island permanently.

Well, I have to admit, I've lost my sympathy. I know. She had my sympathy for a while there. Yeah. Yeah. She died there sympathy for a while there. Yeah. Yeah. She died there of a stroke in 1938.

She'd been in quarantine for a quarter of a century. Wow. She never admitted to being a carrier of typhoid. She never believed that she'd been a carrier of typhoid, mostly because no one ever bothered to educate her about it or make it to where she understood what it meant. I think that she immediately, the belief is that she immediately just became defensive about it, thinking it was something that she was knowingly doing. And then in the end, that is what she did. She, I mean, she didn't believe that she was a risk, but it was clear that she was a risk. Yeah. I mean, when 25 people in the maternity ward come

down with it. So during the course of the two outbreaks that they were able to link directly to her, at least 51 people caught typhoid from Mary and three died. So those are just the confirmed cases from the direct contact with her. Yeah. Which means you know how that branches out. It doesn't. Exponentially. No, because none of this stuff is real.

So it's impossible to know the actual number of people that she infected or the actual number of people that may have died because of some kind of contact trail to her. She touched a lot of lives. People say that in a good way. It's not always good. Oh, yeah. That's a sad story. It is. It is. It really started a conversation about where the line is.

By the time that Mary died, they had identified more than 400 healthy carriers of typhoid. Yeah. And not a single other one of them was put into quarantine. Yeah. Because they probably weren't living recklessly. Well, and also I can see how maybe when you're starting out with this theory about how this thing spreads and you find this one person, you'd be like, oh, well, we'll just, you know, take this one person and remove them.

But when you find out that there are hundreds, well, you're not going to remove hundreds of people. Yeah. So that's the story of Mary Mallon, a.k.a. Typhoid Mary, and she has more recently been dubbed one of the earliest super spreaders. Man.

I didn't know so much of how she was treated when they were first investigating it. And I did have sympathy for her as well until you learn, you know, that she. Well, yeah, when then she goes and works in a restaurant and then works in a hotel. A hotel and a hospital. Yeah. It and a hospital. Yeah. It does make you, it's so interesting to hear this during coronavirus times. It's so timely. Yes.

So what's, so the reason Steve recommended this case to me is because obviously my whole, my family, we just had COVID. What? And we were talking about. I'm sorry. Stop it. So my family just had COVID and we were talking about I'm sorry can you stop it so my family just had COVID other side of the family Steve was not one of them but we were talking about how we were

together but none of us were face to face with each other but what we did do was pass London around the whole night so he called London COVID COVID London but I mean it is it is funny like

because that's something I talked about with my family we were all just so floored like your entire family got it yeah and yeah like you had to have been in contact with a super spreader right oh man wear your masks Yeah, like you had to have been in contact with a super spreader, right? Yeah.

Oh, man. Wear your masks. That's right. Wash your fucking hands. Wash your hands and don't be a racist. Do you want to tell them? I just told Kristen that I ordered a shirt. I found this shirt online.

It's got like the wash your hands symbol that you see like in the bathroom and it says wash your hands and don't be a racist. Just good advice. It's just great advice for the world we're living in. Oh, boy. You ready for this? Were you very familiar with the story of Typhoid Mary? Ish. Ish, yeah.

Yeah. I mean, enough that when you talked about a super spreader and you said her name was Mary, I was like, I am a genius. I am a genius. It's obviously Tap with Mary. No, but it's funny because it does make you think of like how defensive we all get. And like how defensive people are now about wearing masks. Yes. So I told this story in the Discord. I don't think I've told you individually. But my dad, his friend Mike, his wife is immunocompromised.

So they like immediately started wearing masks and taking it really seriously. But before there was the mask mandate in stores, Mike was in a store with a mask on. And this guy came up to Mike and was like, oh, wearing a mask. Oh, I'm so scared. Oh, my gosh. And Mike just said, hey, man, I'm wearing this for your protection, not for mine. Yeah. Not meaning that in a scary way, just meaning it in like, you know, that's how these masks work.

That's how it works. But the guy, I think, misunderstood and thought that Mike was saying he had COVID. So the guy immediately backed up. He like Homer Simpson into the bushes. So that's what I think of every time someone's a dick about masks. I want to be like, hey, man. Oh, my gosh. This is for your protection, not mine.

I'm on death's door here at the Costco. All right. You ready for something much lighter? Yeah. What do you know about scrunchies? I know shockingly little about scrunchies. Oh, and I'm sorry. What is your profession exactly?

Okay. I've never once as a hairstylist put a scrunchie in anybody's hair. You know what? I bet there are a lot of things you haven't done to hair but you know about them, right? Okay, I know what a scrunchie is. All right.

I've owned my fair share of scrunchies in my lifetime. Hell yeah, you have. Okay, when you wash your face, scrunchie time? Yep, and a lot of times I sleep in a scrunchie because it doesn't leave

a mark in your hair and you can wear it down the next day. Yeah. Yep. I know all these things. Yep. You do the pineapple. Hell yeah. I mean, I'm practically doing it right now.

You're practically doing the pineapple right now. Yes, that's how you preserve your hair for the next day if you've got like a good like curl going on. You run pineapple through it. That's not what you do. No. You lean over. You get all your hair, you know, basically on top of your head.

And then you loosely secure it in a bun with a scrunchie. And then it will be the next day you can take that scrunchie out, reposition that hair. Very minimal touch-up will be required. You know who this hairstyle always makes me think of? Who? Do you remember in middle school, a new girl came to town, and she was like the hottest girl ever, and all the boys freaked out, and she always wore her hair exactly like this? Jackie. Jackie.

Yeah. You guys, everybody flipped out over Jackie. Weird thing was Jackie wasn't such a big deal in high school, but like middle school, Jackie, Jackie, Jackie. There's a reason for that. What? Because she had no substance. I thought she was nice. She was.

She was plain nice. She could not carry a conversation. Well, yeah, but that's not usually the criteria for being popular in high school. You're right. Saying she was a bit of a dingus. Uh-huh. It seems like you have extra gossip that you're holding back. I really don't.

I had a class with her. Okay. And, like, when we'd have to do a presentation. Not good. Not good? Not good? Not good. One time I went to the bathroom and you know those little sanitary napkin trash cans? Yeah, yeah.

Someone had written her name on it. I wondered what that meant. What statement they were making. I mean, it's not good. I promise you that. I had a class that I had to do like a free writing assignment for where you just like picked a topic and you had to write like three paragraphs on it. I wrote about that for one of them.

What'd you write? Like, what does it mean? What are they saying? Are they saying she's a tampon? Are they saying? You know what? This, that little assignment that you did, the way you went with that is such

a TMZ Us Weekly reporter stuff. What does this mean? People are saying blah blah blah. We all know what it means to have your name written on a tampon trash can. Do we?

Is it a compliment? I don't know. No, I didn't think it was a compliment. I was wondering what the insult was specifically. Was she trash? Was she a tampon? Was she a sanitary napkin? I hate that term. Sanitary napkin.

Yeah. Yeah, why not just say pack? Yeah, I don't like the term sanitary napkin. I've always felt really grateful that we, I mean, we're probably. Didn't have to wear those belts. Those belts. Yeah. Yeah.

But, okay, it's not a napkin. That's my big problem with it. Have you ever been in a desperate situation? Who hasn't? I don't know. You do like the. Oh, yeah. Okay.

We're on an audio meet our oral oral media a u r a l right yeah yeah anyway what i'm trying to tell you brainy is people can't see you wrapping you know invisible toilet paper around your invisible underwear that's you do it around the underwear yeah when things are really desperate you do. You do it around the underwear? Yeah, when things are really desperate. You do it around the hand. Uh-huh. And then you just kind of wedge it in place. Here's how I did it.

And I think I improved on your patented invention. I would do the wad. Uh-huh. But then. It's more of a wrap than a wad. Excuse me. I'm speaking. So I do the hot dog.

Place it. Uh-huh. And then I'd get a long strip. Oh, you'd do like a security measure. Yeah, like bandage. So, you know, there wasn't anything crazy happening. Okay. Yeah.

Ready? Yeah. Tell me about scrunchies. Did you wear them on your wrist? Ready? Yeah, tell me about scrunchies. Did you wear them on your wrist? Did you know that the hot new thing is in middle school, like, if a girl has a crush on a boy?

She gives him her scrunchie and he wears it. Yes. Okay, don't act like. What are you, trolling middle school? I got nieces and nephews. Okay, okay. I thought you were a creep. Sorry. My niece and nephew are not nearly old enough to be passing around scrunchies. Sorry. My niece and nephew are not nearly old

enough to be passing around scrunchies. Okay. Thank you to my mom for suggesting this case. Excellent. Sure. The parents really came through on this episode. They certainly did. I mean, in a pinch, too. We recorded...

We had to pop this one out with a quickness. Yeah. And, you know, Brandy is notorious about popping things out quickly. What was it? Fifty-five hours? Fifty-three. Thank you very much.

A huge thank you to the podcast Every Little Thing. They did an episode on this and I'll reveal the title later. Do you listen to Every Little Thing? No, I don't know that one. Oh, it's good. They do episodes on things you're curious about. Is this what our podcast has become where we just talk

about other podcasts? Oh, I'm so sorry, man. You were all up in arms. That was a joke. That was a hilarious joke. I think it's funny to be defensive about it. Yeah.

I liked how for a while in the Discord people were like, Is it okay if I dare to mention another podcast? No! How dare you? We're the only podcast you've ever listened to. No, every little thing. Okay, they did an episode. I'm so jealous that you're drinking that.

Look at you. David brought this home for me. It is a Diet Cranberry Limeade from Sonic. Do you guys own stock in Sonic? It's right down the street from our house. You should probably own stock in Sonic. Maybe we should. Shout out to Sharae Ray, by the way, who in our recovery from COVID sent us a Sonic gift card because she just had to be sure that we had beverages, which

I love so much. That's classic. Sheree Ray's in her RV. She's a long ways away, but she's got to do something. That's right. So every little thing. They did an episode once on what happens if you put Carmex on your anus. I'm sorry.

Hey, guys, I was just gesturing. I've got a tube of Carmex in my hand, and Brandy just can't be cool about anything. I'm cool about everything. Then why weren't you on the yearbook in high school? Riddle me that. Riddle me that. Anyway, I'm going to try to tell you again about this podcast. You know what?

I think you are insecure because I've been trying to tell you about a podcast and you stopped me like five times now. You were literally like Vanna Whiting that Carmex. I don't know what you mean. So they did an episode on what the hell happens to your stuff when you go through baggage claim and they seize it. What does happen to it? It was kind of fascinating. So apparently there's like this warehouse place that the stuff goes to. Oh, yeah, and then they do sales, right?

Yeah. Yeah. So this lady, her snow globe was taken. And I'm sorry, it sounded like a fucking hideous snow globe. But anyway, she was really pissed, and so she wrote into the podcast, and they tried to track down the snow globe. Anyway, I recommend it. So they did an episode about this.

Brandy! Don't talk shit! It was good! You told a ten-minute story about a fucking snow globe! You know what? I'm going to tell you more about it, and I'm going to really take my time. Also, thank you to Kim Souza for her article in TalkBusiness.net, which is not a joke. One-sided disclaimer.

All of the stories I found on this basically came from one woman's perspective. Nonetheless, I found it entertaining. So here we go. Picture it. 1781. New York City. Excuse me. 1980s New York City.

Big hair was everywhere. And a night is everywhere. Rami Ravson was doing her thing on stage. Things hadn't been going great in her life. She'd had a lot of ups and downs. She met her first husband when he was in the audience of one of her shows. But they got divorced. So when Romy was 28 years old, she was broke. She was a single mom just trying to make ends meet.

But she kept singing and kept getting up on stage. And eventually she met a new dude in the audience. That man was John Revson, heir to the Revlon fortune. Oh! Ka-ching! Eventually, the two of them got married. Rami says that a few years into their marriage, John made some bad business deals and lost a ton of his fortune. And he didn't look so good anymore.

She didn't put it that way, but you know, yada, yada, yada. It was Maybelline. He wasn't born. A few years after that, they divorced. Do you like any Revlon products? After that, they divorced. Do you like any Revlon products? I used to use – they used to have this, like, illuminating powder stuff. It was, like, highlighter before highlighter was a thing. Oh, yeah, kind of ahead of the curve.

Yeah. I knew them before they were popular. That's right. I used highlighter before it was cool. Did you really? Yeah. Where'd you put it? were popular that's right i used highlighter before it was cool did you really yeah where'd you put it where cheekbones how'd you know to do that because it looked amazing yeah but how did you know i don't know maybe you were just born with it maybe i was the knowledge okay okay Okay. Okay. They used to make a nail polish. Cherries in the snow.

Hmm. What color was that? It was just a, you know, I don't know why it needed to be in the snow. Anyway, I liked it. It was red. Anyway. They used to, I used to be the cosmetics girl at Walgreens. Oh, my God.

Yeah. Beauty Advisor was my title. They had a lipstick that I just loved the name of. What was it? Marvelous. That sounds stupid. Was it hideous? Yeah, it wasn't great.

Like, who wants mauve lips? I don't know. So, you know, yada, yada, yada. They get divorced. And once again, Rami needed to find a way to make ends meet. Okay. In a lot of these stories, this time period is framed as very bleak. And that's great for storytelling purposes, but she was obviously very well connected.

And even if the Revlon dude did make some bad investments, I'm sure he still had some money left over. Yeah. But at any rate, none of this changes the fact that Rami's life did get harder. She was a twice-divorced single mom, and her income had dropped significantly. At this point, I believe she was living with her parents, making money house-sitting and continuing to sing in nightclubs. Which brings us to 1986. An amazing year.

I remember it as kind of a tragic year myself when some dumb hoe was born. Really more of an 85 fan myself. Rami was doing shows in Greenwich Village, not Greenwich. A lot of geniuses call it Greenwich, but that's an understandable mistake. What year was David born? Was it 2002?

You stop it! He was born in 1989! Do you two even have anything to talk about? I mean, with that huge age gap. Stop it! Do you make pop culture references? And he's just like, what? So, you know,

she's doing these shows in Greenwich Village. Village. Village. What did she say? Village. Village. I said Greenwich Village. And a ton of different

nightclubs in New York and she had very long, beautiful blonde hair. She loved her hair. She referred to it as her calling card oh it was even part of her show she'd go out on stage with her hair up in one of those tortoise shell clampy ring thingies you know what i'm talking about i do i had one of those ones did not work for me yeah no no she'd sing a few songs and then, oh, what's this?

Time to change it up. And she'd slowly pull the clampy thing out and her beautiful blonde locks would fall down around her shoulders. And it was pretty sultry and awesome. But then, poor Rami would have to stand there on stage with her dick in her hand. With her fucking hair all over I thought you meant her hair and her face no she didn't know

what to do with that clip throw her in the crowd Rami hey that thing probably cost upwards of four dollars no so she had to do the rest of her set with that little

tortoise shell clampy ring thing in her hand yeah it was annoying as hell yeah and frankly not a good look

so she needed something to fit conveniently on her wrist. That's right. She wanted something ideally made of fabric, something she could put on her wrist after she'd taken her hair down. Mm-hmm. So she began looking for it in stores. She looked and looked and looked. And then she, like, moved a bunch of stuff around

and looked further back and still wasn't there. No one had anything like it, Brandy. What she wanted simply did not exist. Then one day she was walking up to her room about to get changed for the day and she started to pull down her pajama pants. And a literal light bulb flashed over her head. A literal light bulb?

And she shouted, Eureka! A literal light bulb? Yeah, it came up and flashed, Brandy. Because the waistline of her pants was made of elastic. So the elastic of her pajama pants are what she's been looking for her entire life. And she was like, holy hell, that's what I'm looking for. I'm looking for an elastic hair tie that's covered in fabric. Rami didn't really consider herself an inventor, but she spent 60 bucks on a used sewing machine and she bought herself some fabric and she got started. And as she worked, her little orange toy poodle, who was annoying as hell, kept yapping at her. Yap, yap,

yap. Poor Rami was trying to learn how to sew and reinvent the hair tie at the same time and her freaking dog, who she'd named Skunch, was being a total pain in the dick. So Rami sewed and sewed and sewed and Skunch yapped and yapped and yapped. Is that where the brand Skunchie comes from? Yes. Wow. Rami said, Skunch, Skunch, Skunchie, Skunchie, Skunchie. Who names a fucking dog Skunch? I don't know. It's terrible.

Doesn't it sound like a really gross vagina? I actually, okay, it's funny that you say that. I was going to say it sounds like a slang term for the area between a ball sack and your butthole. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A real skeezy skunch. Yeah. Yeah. You're not going to believe this,

but a literal light bulb once again flashed above Rami's head, and she shouted, Eureka, again, because she'd come up with a name for her invention. Slashed above Rami's head and she shouted, Eureka, again. Because she'd come up with a name for her invention. Her invention would be known as the Skunchie. It's not known as the Skunchie. No one calls it the Skunchie. Okay, why are you acting like you're a genius?

Everyone knows it's called the scrunchie. She made like five or six of these scrunchies. It feels so weird to say that. In these interviews, she's so proud of it. It's terrible. Yeah, it's a terrible name. Or, counter-argument, is it so weird that it sticks in your head? No, because no one calls it a scrunchie. Well, it's been altered a little bit.

But is the weird, like if we'd called ourselves, you know, the Skeezy Skunches, would we be at the top of the charts right now? Obviously. And people be wearing our merch all over calling themselves Skeezy Skunches.

Hey, Skuncherinos. Oh, missed opportunity. The fans of this show are now called Skeezy Skunches. Hey, Skuncherinos. Missed opportunity. The fans of this show are now called Skizzy Skunches. So, you know, she makes five of these Skunchies and she's like, I have done it. I am a genius. Women everywhere are going to love the Skunchie. In fact, next summer, I'm buying myself a beach house. With all the money I'm going to make off my sweet new invention, the Skunchie.

Stop saying the Skunchie. I can't help it. You start saying it. You're not going to be able to stop. Once you pop, you don't stop. I'm Pringle. She called to her parents and she's like, Mom, Dad, I just created something that will take care of you forever. What's her dad going to do with it?

No, Brandy. Do you not understand the concept of your parents being taken care of forever? Brandy You meant like all the money Yes You're the only thing in the pocket Fisherman who does like 80 things Alright I'm following you

You're set for life thanks to this thing that i just created inspired by my elastic waist band and she bloop plopped the skunchie in her dad's hand and he at it, and he wasn't a very animated guy, and he didn't talk much even, but he looked at that Skunchie, and he said, Honeydoll, I think you've got something here. That gave her all the confidence she needed, although I'd say she had plenty because she was like 100% sure she was getting a beach house. Yeah. Although I'd say she had plenty because she was like 100% sure she was getting a beach house.

Yeah. Which I think this time next year, the scrungy skunches and us are going to get a beach house. Skeezy skunches. Skeezy skunches. So Rami took her prototypes and went to this really popular ice cream parlor in the Hamptons. And she sat down at a table. And as women walked in, she was like, hey, would you do me a favor? Would you try this in your hair and see if you like it?

And everyone vomited right on sight because this was an ice cream shop and not a beauty salon. Can you imagine? Air all over the place. Yes. Yeah. I mean, for the lay person, yeah, that would be horrible. I wouldn't think anything of it. Oh, God.

Yeah, you're weird. Yeah. What would you do? Let's say you come over here after work one day. You're very hungry. Okay, what's your favorite? Okay, I can't say pizza. What's your second favorite food, a messy food?

I don't know. Okay, let's just say chicken parm. Chicken parm. I have laid my head down on the table, and I've placed a chicken parm on top of my hair. Would you eat it? Yeah. Oh, my God, Brandy. I mean, I'd pull it off.

I wouldn't eat it from your hair, but yeah, it wouldn't bother me. For real? For real. The thought would make me vomit. But yeah, I guess, I mean. I touch hair all day long. Touching hair all day long is different than eating chicken parm out of it. I breathe in hair.

I find hair in my belly button when I get home at the end of the day. And it does not belong to you? Never a time is my belly button exposed in the salon. exposed in the salon. You know, that Naked Tuesday special you ran brought a lot of people in. But they were mad they had to wear masks. So, you know, no one vomited.

Instead, they were all really impressed because evidently they're all like Brandy. Everyone wanted the Skunchie. They wanted to know where they could buy a Skunchie. And Rami said, you can't. Yet. But I promise

you that this time next year, you will be wearing one. In fact, you'll own multiple Skunchies. Rami had no shortage of confidence in her invention. She applied for a patent, and then she went around to all the big hair companies. And she told them about her idea, and she showed them her prototypes, and she gave her big pitch, and she was oh so excited, and they laughed her out the door. Skunchy?

What the hell is a skunchy? It's that spot between a ball sack and a butthole. That's what she said. They were like, get out! They told her, it sounds like something you'd use to scrub a bathroom. I don't know. I think it'd be pretty hard to get in that position. You guys.

She's laughing so hard. My concern is cleaning the faucet. One false move, one little slip, and you're just done. No one is going to wear that thing. We promise you. We are big hair, and we know what women wear.

Oh. Did you write that line? Of course I did. You think they rhymed? No. They didn't have the skill. One executive. Sick right.

A spit hut beats. I didn't have the skill. One executive. You didn't have the right. I spit hot beets. The name's Kate Bizzle. I spit hot beets. It's not a thing anybody has ever said. I'm reinventing the game. Yeah. You're used to the status quo. I'm changing it up.

Talk about the status quo. I'm changing it up. Talk about the status quo. What can I say? I'm an artiste. I'm an individual. Wake up, sheeple. I'm here with the skunchie. Okay. One executive even told her,

isn't it pathetic what divorced women will do to make money? Oh, shit. Right. Right. I mean, we'll do some stuff. Should we tell them what we just talked about? Or is that inappropriate? I asked you,

we also asked Norm, if a fan wanted to pay you 10 grand for a dick pic, would you do it? I'm going to tell you guys, Brandy's price is really low. Yeah, I'll give you a picture of my dick pic. If you've got a $25 gift card to Chili's, she's there. Rami was devastated.

She left every single meeting and went home to cry. But the thing about Rami was she got knocked down. But she got up again? You're never going to keep her down. So even though these meetings were so draining and devastating and people were so freaking condescending, she believed in her invention and she knew she'd created something that people would love. Damn it. But she kept getting rejected.

And a funny thing happened. Some of the companies that had laughed in her face for... Started making scunchies? Damn right, those fucking scunchies. All of a sudden, the scunchie was taken off. Just like Rami had predicted, people loved the scunchie. It was everywhere, and someone was getting a beach house, but it wasn't her. Rami was flat broke. At one point, she went to the grocery store to buy herself a chicken.

The chicken was $3.50, and she couldn't afford it. Like a rotisserie chicken? I mean, I assume no one just says a chicken when it's chicken breasts. Bone. I have a chicken bone to pick with DP. What's that? He referred to the Costco chicken as a roasted chicken. Do you think he knows anything about food?

It is a rotisserie chicken. Good sir. He takes critiques very seriously. And I'm sure he will issue a full correction right away. So it's this $3.50 chicken. She couldn't afford it. And yet, she could look out the grocery store window and see that the newsstands on every street corner in New York were selling scrunchies. Excuse me, scrunchies.

Because somehow, at this point, the R had been added. I don't know why because it was the perfect name. Rami's invention was selling like hotcakes but she couldn't even buy a damn rotisserie chicken or a roasted chicken for that matter. Or a chicken in a can. Oh god, that's grim. My mom tried to tell me that was good once. Chicken in a can? Yeah. You gotta put it in something.

You can't just eat the chicken. Yeah, or it can just sit in the back of your pantry and you'll be like, maybe one day. Maybe one day. When the apocalypse. You ever make buffalo chicken dip? Use chicken in a can for that. Okay. You've eaten my buffalo chicken dip.

Not anymore. You thought I was roasting a chicken? No, I thought you bought a roasted chicken and then pulled the meat off. Oh, my God. You're looking at me like I'm thinking that you went out and choked your own chicken. I don't think that means what you think it means. Yes, Brandy, in your sick mind,

obviously choking a chicken means one thing. For us country folk, choking a chicken is what you have to do sometimes if you want chicken. Did you know you have to like, you know,

stir a big cat? No, no. You swing it around by its neck? Yeah, and you snap its neck. Did you not know that? No! You have a lot to learn, Missy. You've never swung a chicken around by its neck.

You're right, I have not. But I know that's how it's done. I, you know, this is my non-profit. I go to people who use chicken in a can and I tell them about chickens. Lord. Madonna was wearing the scrunchie. Jackie Kennedy was wearing the scrunchie. Jackie Kennedy?

Yes, yes, don't make that face. Rami once saw Jackie Kennedy getting off a plane. She was wearing the scrunchie and Rami went up to her and was like, oh, my gosh, you're wearing my invention. And Jackie was very nice and was like, I love them. Great job. That sounds made the fuck up. It's a true story. Well, I mean, Rami said it.

What are you, Googling it? No. All right. Paula Abdul was wearing the scrunchie. Going to second guess that? Straight up now tell me. Are you going Gonna second guess that? Straight up now tell me, are you gonna second guess that? Everyone

had a scunchie. You've gotta get a scunchie, scunchie, scunchie. Go scunchies, go, was the saying. I don't think it was. So Rami was like, enough is enough. And she looked herself in the glass that surrounded the rotisserie chickens, and she said, let's go to court.

There was just one problem. Rami didn't really have the money to go to court. So she met with a lawyer who, and by the way, someone in the Discord was curious about the way I say lawyer. Yeah, they asked if it was a Midwestern thing. No, it's not. It absolutely is. Yeah, Brandy's the freak. Brandy's the freak.

No. That is decidedly not Midwestern. No, I say it a weird way. And the worst part is I can't hear the difference. You say it. Lawyer. Yeah, you say lawyer. Why do you act like you have to

swallow your tongue oh my god you say lawyer I can't say it lawyer did I say it yeah lawyer okay say foyer lawyer

yeah okay so she met with a lawyer in her foyer in her foyer Okay. So she met with a lawyer. A lawyer. And her foyer. And her foyer. Isn't it foyer? If you're nasty. And this lawyer agreed to write an opinion on the validity of her patent.

And the lawyer was like, oh, I can't do it. And the lawyer was like, yep, I can't do it. And the lawyer was like, yep, super valid, great patent you got here. And then they were like, okay, that'll be seven grand. Uh-huh. And she was like,

would you take an IOU? I haven't sold any scrunchies. Invented it, haven't sold one. And the attorney agreed to intimidate the shit out of a bunch of companies that were selling scrunchies in exchange for a big split of the

settlement money. Okay. So they went around to all the major retailers who were selling the scrunchies and they were like, hey, buttholes, we've got a patent here. You owe Rami money. Hey, skeezy scrunchies. Hey, you bunch of scrunchies.

The first company they targeted was a little mom and pop shop called Walmart. And the executives at Walmart were like patent schmatton. That won't hold up in court. And Rami's legal team was like

okay. Alright. Yeah. Maybe her patent won't hold up in court. Okay but Walmart wasn't And Rami's legal team was like, okay, all right, yeah. Maybe her patent won't hold up in court. Maybe you're right. Walmart wasn't manufacturing them. Why didn't they go to whoever was manufacturing them? Well, I don't know. I wasn't on the legal team.

I was in my foyer at the time. Maybe you're right. Maybe it won't hold up in court. But what if you're wrong? What if we take you to court and you lose? Do you have any idea how much money you will owe our client if you lose this legal battle? And the Walmart executives got this far-off look in their eyes, and their eyeballs turned into dollar signs and bugged out of their heads and then went back into their heads and then spun and spun and spun. And then they stopped spinning, and both eyeballs were just dollar signs.

Dollar signs, yeah. That's what happened. Uh-huh. 100% real story. And the executives were like, okay, you've made an excellent point. We will pay you a lot of money now so that we don't have to pay you a boatload of it later. Also, we will agree to only sell your scrunchies. Please don't hurt us.

And Rami and her legal team were like, great, thanks so much. And then they went around to all the other thieving retailers and they were like, hey, a little company called Walmart caved. So seeing as how you're a lot smaller than Walmart, maybe you should cave too. Nice store here. Be shamed if something happened to it. And everybody was like, okay. This process of intimidating companies and threatening companies and playing whack-a-mole lasted five years.

Holy shit. How much money did she get? Oh, she's doing She's doing alright. Okay. She's buying all the rotisserie chickens now. Then she bought one of those I said it and forget it.

Rotisserie chicken makers. She can make her own. Is that a thing? Yeah. Well, don't act like it's something you invented and you talked to me about it. Ron Popeil invented it. Who? Who? Rob Popeil?

Ron Popeil. Is that a friend of ours? I don't know who that is. Who's Ron Popeil? You know Ron Popeil. What? The Showtime rotisserie and Barbecue from Ron Popeil. Hang on.

You're not familiar with this? Oh, he's the same guy who did the Pocket Fisherman. Yeah. Oh, my God. He had two Ron Popeil references in one episode. Big Ron Popeil fan here, guys. Do you watch these infomercials? I've seen them.

Why is his hair so black? Because he's got Ron Popeil spray on hair. What? Is that for real? You know that's... Is that him? The spray-on hair dye? One of the 10 things I hate about you?

That's Ron Popeau? That's Ron Popeau! His hair looks terrible! It's sprayed on! And it looks sprayed on. Oh my gosh, look at that. He's in his little suit and he's posing next to his rotisserie chicken.

Wow. Okay. Yes, set it and forget it. Brandy, I'm sorry I doubted you. Although I've never heard you refer to Ron Popeil like he's a close personal friend of yours. Clearly, you two have spent many magical hours together. Yeah. Sounds like you've had some lonely nights

with the TV. Have you ever had a client who had spray on color? Spray on color, yeah. Like women do that to cover gray. Oh, no. Yeah, that's not what I mean.

You mean spray on hair. No, I have a client who does do like a powder situation in his hair. Does it work? Ish. He'd be better off just embracing what's happening with confidence and style and grace. Like Miss United States. Miss United States, that's exactly right. Anyway, so she bought herself a Ron Popeil, set it in forget it, Showtime rotisserie.

No one else could afford one, but she could. Then a funny thing started happening. All the big companies were now doing things the right way. And other companies actually started calling Rami and being like, hey, we'd like to carry your Skunchies. How do we get a license? How do we get into that Skunchie? We want to be part of the skeezy scunchies.

Family. It's a very elite group. It was a crazy legal battle, but it was worth it. Rami made millions. And she did get a beach house. And it was right on the ocean. And she went back

to that ice cream parlor and all the ladies were wearing scrunchies. And they had an article up on the wall about Rami and her scrunchie success. At the ice cream parlor? Yeah, because I'm sure she gave him a shout out in the article.

Hold the phone! You're going to eat chicken parm out of my hair, but you wouldn't post a newspaper article that shouted out your shop? I guess. Brandy. If Ron Popeil or whatever.

Popeil. Ron Popeil. Had demoed the rotisserie chicken thing in your salon, and then he shouted out your salon. All right. Yeah, I'd probably do that. All right. Probably. Ron Popeil probably sleeps with the fishes, I'm guessing.

Sleeps with the fish and did a bob moss get him? What happened? No, he's still alive. He's 85. I thought he was 45 because of that jet black hair. What? What? He's Ashley Tisdale's cousin.

Really? I'm guessing like third cousin, but. What? He's Ashley Tisdale's cousin. Really? I'm guessing like third cousin, but. How old is your oldest cousin? My oldest? I don't have that many cousins. My oldest cousin is. There are 5,000 people in your family.

You don't have that many cousins? 5,000. My oldest cousin is 40-something. Oh, yeah. Samesies. Yeah. Well, this is fascinating. Okay, I'll get back to it.

Now, you may notice that I have not mentioned any member of Rami's legal team by name. Yeah, why is that? That is because it's hard to keep track of them. Uh-huh. legal team by name. Yeah, why is that? That is because it's hard to keep track of them. See, Rami battled all these big retailers, but she also battled her own lawyers. Oh. I thought it was because she went with Rubens Case, Rubens Cambiano, and Brian.

There are too many Rubens. Is that only at Kansas City? I assume so. I don't know. You guys, this legal team, I mean, they did so many commercials back in the day. Yeah. Ruben's case, Ruben, Cabellano, and Bryant. That's right.

Because after the big companies settled, there would, like every time, be a dispute over how much the lawyers should take. So by 1993, according to one source, she'd run through three attorneys, and she'd just fired another. Meanwhile, Rami kept inventing, and in 1994, she patented a new kind of hat that had a sealable compartment effectively combining

your hat and your purse. She called it the hearse. No. No, she didn't. I don't think I have to tell you that it didn't take off. I was going to say, I never heard of it, and it sounds stupid. Oh, like you don't want to just have everything right on your head. All your credit cards, all your keys, your cell phone, everything just conveniently in your hat. Nope.

No, thank you. You know what? In her defense, I bet back in the day when everyone wore hats, that might have been kind of popular. Might be good for like a runner. Yeah. Do you run in a hat? Put your key right in there? You know what I do?

And it's a real cool look. You wear a visor, don't you? I do wear a visor. Yep, I knew it. You got to keep, I mean i mean you gotta keep that head cool man do you know how sweaty it gets do you have any idea you know i'm older for real we used to make fun of my mom for wearing visors all the time and now i wear a visor only when i'm running or working in the garden don't worry about it

or just running to the store real quick no I know no how dare you I've never worn one you know in a store I'm way too cool yet it is only a matter of time I care less and less every year I know don't say it like you know

like you've been observing me that's not how I meant it I've been like yeah you care as you get older you do care less and less every year. I know. Don't say it like you know, like you've been observing me. No, that's not how I meant it. I meant like, yeah, as you get older, you do care less and less. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I'm sorry. I was trying to make up a joke about you.

What were you going to say? I couldn't think of anything. Was I just too cool? Oh, my God. You guys, Brandy was bragging earlier to Norman about how, like, I never hung out at the stupid coffee shop because that's where the What? Oh, what? Say it! That's where the yearbook club hung out. It was also newspaper and also the literary magazine.

You guys. Cool. It was cool. It was cool. We had a lot of things to discuss there. You were not welcome. Obviously, the hat purse didn't take off. And when the patent expired, she didn't bother renewing it. So I couldn't find exact figures on how Rami's legal battles with her attorneys turned out, but I think it's safe to say that overall, she got the last laugh.

One day, Rami was at the Breakers Hotel in Palm Beach. Go ahead and Google it. Looks very nice. I think we should go there for research purposes when COVID is over. Fuck yeah, we're going here. It's regal as shit, right? Yeah. Oh, this is in a movie.

What movie? I don't know. Oh, there are commercials filmed here. Is that what it is? It's very recognizable to me. Yeah, okay. So there was a commercial for the rotisserie chicken. You shut up!

That's how you know it. Okay, so she was at the Breakers Hotel in Palm Beach, which is very fancy. And she was lounging by the pool when she spotted that awful guy who told her, isn't it sad what divorced women will do for money, Brandy? And he came up to her and he apologized. He said, I'm so proud of you. What you did was remarkable. I wish I had listened to you in the first place.

I would have made millions and millions of dollars. Wow. I'm sorry. Yeah. Rami was so touched that she cried and she gave him a hug. And a million dollars. No, she's like, fuck it, I'm rich. She said, bitch, I'm rich, I'm rich, I'm rich.

And that's the story of the Skunchie slash Scrunchie. Ooh, that's good. Wasn't that fun? It was very fun. A little lighthearted one for you. Yeah. Way less people had typhoid. Very few deaths in my case. Very few. Death by Skunchy.

How many, how many scrunchies do you own, Kristen? Okay, well, so here's the deal. I bought some off Amazon and like, you don't just buy one. No. You buy a pack of 12,000. Yeah. So I have 12,000. Mm-hmm. I have three. Mine came in a three-pack. Are they velvet? No, they're satin. Oh.

Okay. That's supposed to be better for the sleeping. Uh-huh. Sleeping pineapple, as I call it. Yeah, mine are, oh, I just touched the mic. Mine are pretty cheap. I won't lie. But they're fun colors. Mine are all black, if you can believe it.

Oh, my God. Brandy, what's going on with you, though? You're kind of busting out a little. You got a pink purse, and now you're in camo. That's right. I mean, you're really. That's right. I went deer hunting before I came here today.

God, can you imagine? No, I can't imagine. You think I'd ever be able to hunt an animal? Here's why I wouldn't be able to do it. I mean, besides I have no hand-eye coordination. Do you know how much of it is just like sitting in one spot forever until you die? That's right. Or a deer dies, I guess, is the deal.

Anyway, should we take questions from the Discord? Let's do it. Lady in Blonde asks, chocolate or cheese? I refuse to choose. I will give up neither. Wow. What a brave stance, Brandy. You're a hero.

We must write of you hold still i must draw you oh possum by night asks um brandy i know covid sucked but how much progress did you make on your animal crossing island so fucking much we planted. We made an observatory. I made a zen garden. I got bamboo all around it and then it's got a gong and a... Kristen nodded off.

I also caught all the sharks. So, kind of a big deal. Wow. And you were too cool to go to the coffee shop in high school. You know,

you journalism nerds. We had a lot of things to discuss. Fierce Mama Llama asks, would you guys ever consider doing a bonus video of you all playing true crime trivia, but family feud style? Kristen, Norm, DP, and Kyla versus Brandi, David, Casey, and a fourth of their

choosing. You guys would destroy us. Like, would destroy us. Like, absolutely destroy us. Because part of the thing is, Norman's the smartest of the group, but he's not into true crime. And he's not chill about losing. So he'd be very upset. What if we just did regular trivia? Yeah, fine. I mean, I'd just sit back.

I wouldn't want to do Family Feud style where I have to actually go up and be on the spot. Just team against team? Yeah, fine. I mean, I just sit back. I wouldn't want to do Family Feud style where I have to actually go up and be on the spot. Just team against team? Yeah, sure. And I just sit back. And just drink some cocktails? Yeah. You know how I do it. But what if Oopsies, someone, Nancy Kerrigan's Casey and she's unable to participate.

That would be terrible. For you. Yeah, it would be. Uh-huh. It would be. Meanwhile, she's in my basement and she's giving me answers to questions. I'd be my dad and my dad would. I'd hate for something to happen to him.

You're going to bump my whole family off no i don't care that much i know you don't oh rekenstein wants to know if you each had a store or shop and could sell anything what would it be i have never wanted to own a shop really i don't like the idea if i have to show up at a certain time. Yeah, that's not your thing. No, not at all. I'd probably do like home decor. That's my...

Your passion. That's my jam. Okay, okay. You wouldn't want to sell a bunch of rotisserie chicken? Maybe I'll just do a rompo peel store. Spray on hair. Rotisserie chicken. Maybe I'll just do a rompo peel store. Spray on hair. Rotisserie chicken. Pocket fisherman.

What the fuck else did he make? I mean, he really just does whatever, doesn't he? He makes all kinds of shit. The juice. I think he made the juice thing. You know, it's like that nozzle

that you just like punch in the juice container so it's easier to pour. I know exactly what you mean. He made the chop-o-matic hand fruit processor. Early version of the slap chop for those who are not in the know. Oh, I thought that was the slap chop for those who are not oh i thought that was the slap chop okay never mind uh team peanut wants to know brandy i've started dating again after a stalking situation a year ago now i need help how do i go about checking people out like background check type details okay here's we've come to the creep tell us brandy why why'd you have to wipe your mouth because i got a

little excited i have to brag uh-huh i knew david's last name and had stalked his facebook before he ever told me it how'd you know because he gave me his phone number so we messaged on tinder first and then he gave me his phone number you can get a ton of information with someone's phone number. So we messaged on Tinder first. Huge. And then he gave me his phone number. You can get a ton of information with someone's phone number. So yeah. Googled that. Googled the phone number. Googled the phone number.

Got his full name. His current address. Went on over to Facebook. Made sure those pictures fucking matched. Wasn't getting catfished I'll tell you that and then I did a little search on

maybe the county I think this is smart honestly to see if he had any pending court cases or had ever been to jail he came up clean. Yeah. And then I asked him

what his last name was to see if he'd lie. No trust issues here. No, not at all. He told me his last name immediately. Man, dating now, it's wild times, isn't it? It is.

I'm watching Love Fraud right now and I gotta say, it's some scary shit. Yeah. Although I got to say, no, it's rude. What? He wasn't that good looking? Is that what you were going to say?

No, no, no. That's not what I was going to say. Because I don't think that usually has much to do with it. I don't either. I think it's often like if you're giving someone the type of attention they want and you're super enthusiastic, that's like half the game right there. But I'm sorry. A crab restaurant in Wichita, Kansas? Ma'am, I don't know what that means.

You got to say more words. Somebody will know. I'm halfway into the second episode right now. I was rudely interrupted by this podcast. Speaking of. What? What? Do we want to talk about what we're fucking missing to do this bonus episode because we love our listeners so much?

Alexander Hamilton. The original cast of Hamilton is doing a virtual fundraiser for Joe Biden's campaign right fucking now. And we are missing it because we love you so much. We'll donate when they do the Trump fundraiser. I'm sorry. I'm trying to get some of those reviewers. No, that sucks. But I am glad we're doing this.

Me too. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, this is so much fun. Pixie, you guys are so open about your lives and so relatable. Is there anything you regret sharing? I guess so we can say it twice now. Do you regret sharing that you shit in the bag, Kristen?

No, I think that's a really funny story. It is a very funny story. I tend to not regret things as long as they're funny. Yeah. Yeah. As long as they land. I don't think there's anything I regret right now. Wait for it.

Wait for it. You? No, I don't think so. No. Yeah, I don't think so either. Mandy M. asked, does London get an LGTC merch onesie? Oh. We totally should.

One of our amazing listeners did send her a onesie that says, I'm a juvenile. It has a big foot on it. So cute. It's really cute. Okay. I am personally offended by this question. I think we're talking about the same question. I feel like it's been asked multiple times. Mm-hmm. Is it the

soup one? Yes! Yes, I'm so grossed out. Yes! My name is Kristen. What? No! She asked us, do you consider cereal to be soup? Absolutely not! I'm weirdly offended, too. I don't know why. I can't tell you why, but I'm offended

by the question. Oh, Court Jester Jorge wants to know is there anything you used to judge moms for doing before having London that you now do yourself? Okay, I saw this question earlier and so I've been thinking about it. There's one that I can think of. What's that? Oh God, are people going to

hate me if I say this? We can cut that I can think of. What's that? Oh, God. Are people going to hate me if I say this? We can cut it if it's bad. What? Sometimes the binky hits the floor and you just stick it right back in the mouth. Oh, I don't think that's that controversial at all. Okay. Yeah. I always thought that was so gross.

But, like, the fifth time it's hit the floor, I'm not going to get up and rinse it off. No, no. I mean, maybe you wipe it on your pants. That's what I do. I wipe it off or David will like lick it off. I don't do that. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't, I'm not judging you. Yeah. I don't, I'm not judging you. No. Sifile 13 wants to know. I don't think that's how you pronounce it. How do you say that? I have no idea. Sifile.

Anyway, she wants to know, what's your favorite movie or TV show to watch when you've had a rough day or week and need to relax? Schitt's Creek. Yep, that's 100% mine. I have watched Schitt's Creek through so many times. It is my go-to show. It's my favorite show that's ever been on, ever. Really? Yes.

Man. Love it. I don't know that I have one right now because I kind of outdid myself on The Office. That makes it sound like I accomplished something I didn't. It's just I watched it too many times. Court Jester Jorge asks, Kristen, you mentioned having realized the first novel you finished would probably not be published. Is there a lesson in that, something you learned the hard way that you can pass on to other writers?

I don't know that there is, which is a little scary. So I feel like the thing about my novel that interested agents was that it was a little outside the box it was kind of like young adult but for college age people which is not really a category right but that's why agents liked it and then that's why publishers didn't yeah i think they could sell it or why why like some editors at publishing houses liked it and they would see i didn't know how many layers you have to make it through. Yeah. Neither did I. So it would be like,

an editor would be like, I like it. They'd get their colleagues and they'd like it. But then it would get to marketing and they'd be like, well, where does this go on the shelf? Yeah. And I'd say,

where's your mama? Sorry. In your mom's vagina. How about that? Yeah. Right there, shoved in your mom's skunch. So the lesson I'm taking away is that I'm writing the next book in an older tone. I'm not trying to do something unique.

Yeah. Yeah. When I did my first one, I was like, I've noticed no one really writes young adult style for college age students. And maybe there's a reason. That was my lesson. Nerdburger asks, favorite thing you've been for Halloween? I don't have one for myself, but I have a favorite thing you've been for Halloween. Mimi from the Drew Carey Show.

It's the best costume ever. Loved it. Yeah. Yeah, that was so fun. I was at seventh grade. Yeah. Yeah. Wore a muumuu.

Yeah. Had the blue eye shadow. Oh, it was good times. Teased hair. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. When I was like 21, I was Lindsay Lohan. Ooh.

And I did the ankle bracelet with like the two little mini boxes of cereal. Yeah. Duct taped to my ankle. Very good. Allowed me to look hot and topical. Yes. Yeah. All right.

Should we wrap up? Yeah. This has been so fun. It has. Even though you complain because you want to watch Hamilton. Okay. Do you think there's going to be a way to, like, donate and see, like, a rebroadcast of it? That'd be a real missed opportunity if there wasn't, don't you think?

Yeah. Yeah. And if there's not, I'll sing to you. No. Okay. Great. I think I'm busy that day. Are you worried that you threw away your shot?

No. I'm not throwing away my shot. No. Oh. I'm sorry throwing away my shot. Oh. Sorry, I just spat. What do we say to the people at the end of these episodes, Kristen? I mean, I feel like I don't say anything. I know you don't.

That's why I'm saying, what would you like to say to them? Everybody, I think what we've learned from this episode is you've got to sanitize your skunches because you don't want to get people sick. Thank you for being our skeezy skunches. And if you're too skeezy, we'll put you on an island. That's right. That's right. We'll quarantine you for the rest of your life.

It's dark. It's right. We'll quarantine you for the rest of your life. It's dark. It's real dark. Really dark. No, thank you guys so much for all of your support. We appreciate it so much. And it really makes these bonus episodes are really fun because we know it's like our people. It's more relaxed, isn't it? I feel like we were more goofy with this one than we would normally be.

We also had two glasses of wine each. Well, yeah that's part of it i slowed down though once you called me out for being a drunkard i didn't call you out for being a drunkard i was i was too silly i was too silly you were right you were right thank you guys for your continued support um you guys make this so much fun to do so much easier to do we love it and we love you real hard it's so hard especially your skunches bonus episode and now for a note about our process i read a bunch of stuff then regurgitated all back up in my very limited vocabulary and i copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts.

For this episode, I got my info from the podcast Every Little Thing, which did an episode titled The Queen of the Scrunchie. Plus an article by Kim Souza for Talk Business titled Nightclub Singer, Scrunchie Inventor, Rami Rebson relocates to Rogers. That's too many R's. It's terrible. That's a terrible headline. But it's a good article. I got my info from National Geographic, Smithsonian Magazine, AllThat'sInteresting.com, PBS.org, and Wikipedia.

For a full list of our sources, visit LGTCpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.