Let's Go To Court! - 17: The Astronaut Love Triangle & the @$&!?* Pre-trial Hearing

Episode Date: May 23, 2018

Warning: This is an especially explicit episode. Blame Denver Fenton Allen. Brandi starts us off with an absolutely insane pre-trial hearing unlike anything you’ve ever heard of. Denver Fenton Allen’s went a little nuts in his pre-trial hearing. He accused everyone of wanting to “suck his dick.” Then, when it was clear things weren’t going his way, he threatened to murder the judge’s family and mastrubate in open court. The judge didn’t handle it well.     Then, who could forget the story of astronaut Lisa Nowak? When Lisa’s astronaut boyfriend Billy dumped her for another woman, she — how do we put this mildly? — didn’t take it well. She loaded up her car with trash bags, a knife, a steel mallet and other fun travel accessories, then drove from Houston to Orlando wearing a diaper. Once she got to Orlando, she attacked Billy’s new girlfriend, Colleen Shipman.  For what it’s worth, Lisa denies wearing the diaper. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Astronaut Charged With Attempted Murder,” The New York Times “Ex-Astronaut Wants Evidence Tossed Out,” Associated Press “Astronaut Love Triangle: Colleen Shipman Says of 2007 Attack by Romantic Rival, ‘I Thought I “Was Going to Be Okay. But It Was Never Okay After That,’” People Magazine “Astronaut Love Triangle: Lisa Nowak’s Life 10 Years Later,” People Magazine Plus, good ol’ wikipedia In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Proctor calls Floyd County Jail death a homicide” by Doug Walker, Rome News-Tribune “Cartersville man charged in Floyd County Jail inmate death” by Doug Walker, Rome News-Tribune “Georgia v. Denver Fenton Allen” transcript of proceedings Fay Frankland “Judge criticized for vulgar courtroom exchange” by Bill Rankin, Atlanta Journal Constitution “Man who gained fame for crude “Rick and Morty” courtroom exchange gets life” by Joshua Rhett Miller, New York Post

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts! I'm Kristen Pitts. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court! On this episode, I'll talk about the astronaut love triangle. And I'll be talking about a pre-trial hearing unlike any you've heard of before.

This episode of Let's Go to Court is brought to you by... The gaming historian. Was it not clear that I was sending it over to you, Kristen? I'm sorry. You gave me that look like I'm sending it over to you. And when I fumbled, your eyes got smaller, like, come on. So yeah, this episode is sponsored by The Gaming Historian, who every week sets us up with our microphones and tells us,

hey, you need more expensive mics now. Let's do this. If you'd like to support his show, you can head on over to gaminghistorian.com. Or thegaminghistorian.com. Either way works. And if you're looking for 16 classic episodes of The Gaming Historian. And you know you are. Then check out The Gaming Historian Volume 1 on Blu-ray.

Available now at gaminghistorian.com. You're gonna love it. We guarantee it. All right, are you ready to hear about a crazy pre-trial hearing i'm very excited okay i got my info for this episode see even my notes are just begging me to fuck up my notes literally say i got my info from this episode. I got my info for this episode from articles by Doug Walker for the Rome News Tribune, articles from the Atlanta Journal's Constitution. I bet it's the Atlanta Journal Constitution.

It sure is. And the New York Post. And the New York's Post. As well as the actual transcript from the hearing. Okay. Okay. In the early morning hours of Wednesday, August 26, 2015, Stephen Rudolph Nally, a 49-year-old inmate at the Floyd Floyd County Jail in Rome,

Georgia, was found beaten to death in his cell. Ooh. Valley had no. What is wrong with you today? Well, apparently I didn't check for spelling fucking errors on this thing. Wait, you told me that you wrote this script two nights ago

very quickly so that you and zach could go to cheddars did you have cheddars on the brain i did not write it quickly i just finished it in time to be able to have a date night the following Your spelling errors indicate otherwise. Would indicate otherwise. Okay. Nally had been incarcerated since August 12th and was serving seven months and 27 days for charges of burglary and aggravated stalking. Wow. Per Georgia state law, the GBI was called in as all inmate custody deaths require a full investigation by an outside agency good law I feel like yeah um Nally's cellmate Denver Fenton Allen was immediately the prime suspect I feel again like obviously the husband in the real world exactly exactly i don't know that killing your cellmate is a is the perfect crime because there's probably only one suspect

when it's two people locked in one cell i would think so um so denver fenton allen had been at the floyd county jail for only a week He had previously been incarcerated at Bartow County Jail in Cartersville, Georgia. So Cartersville and Rome are about 25, 30 miles from each other. But the Bartow County Jail had transferred him to Floyd County because from what I could gather, Floyd County Jail had a specialized block for inmates suffering from mental health issues. Okay. And Denver Allen was suffering from mental health issues and was housed on that block. Okay.

Investigators quickly learned that Denver Allen had been having some troubles with some of the other inmates and believed that he had killed his smaller cellmate to assert dominance on the block. The next day, Denver Allen was charged with Stephen Nally's murder. So pretty much an open and shut case. I suppose that way. By June 17, 2016, so eight months, no, ten months later, Allen's trial was a little over a week away and he found himself in court for a pre-trial hearing most pre-trial hearings are pretty boring with the exception of like the occasional

plea change that results in an unanticipated confession or arguments about what evidence should be allowed at trial. Typically, there's not a ton that goes on in these things that we would cover on this podcast. And typically, the media doesn't even cover much unless they're really high profile. Exactly. But on this day, June 17th, 2016, a pretrial hearing, unlike any other, took place in a courtroom of the Superior Court of Rome, Georgia. It began simply enough. Denver Allen told Judge J. Bryant Durham Jr. that he was unhappy with his public defender. What would follow, though, is an exchange unlike anything you've heard before in a court of law.

I am so excited. Okay. So I'm going to read you snippets of the court transcript. Okay. So this is how it begins. Alan, the attorney here, motioning to his public defender, I'm wanting to fire him. Judge, who are you going to hire? I'm not going to hire nobody.

I'm going to try and get a different public defender. Judge, that isn't, you have the right to an attorney. You don't have the right to a specific attorney. Mm-hmm. Alan, this lawyer has made sexual advancements on me. He's misrepresenting my case. He told me if I wanted him to do a good job, I had to let him give me oral sex. What?

He's had the doctors at Central State Hospital put a false diagnosis on me. Chris, in your face. Oh, my. Judge. I'm sorry. Okay. Judge. I'm sorry.

Okay. You know, I know Mr. Wyatt, Allen's public defender, pretty well. And I don't think he has the ability to make the doctors at Central State Hospital do anything. So we're just glossing over the blowjob? He is. He's just going to try and fly over that and move up to like the matters at hand so alan is also not thrilled that the judge glossed over the blow job stuff and so he you know has become clear like this strat this his his strategy is not working and so he takes it a different direction he complained that his lawyer was withholding evidence from him

so he his big complaint to the judge was that he asked his lawyer for the discovery on the case and he claimed that his lawyer had only given him the indictment and he of course knows as an inmate who's dealt with other people what he is supposed to get when it comes to discovery he wants the autopsy report he wants crime scene photos he wants the coroner's report and he's complaining in court to the judge that he doesn't have these items and so the judge judge is like, he asks Mr. Wyatt, hey, did you turn over the discovery to your client? And Mr. Wyatt says, yes, I gave him everything I had. And the defendant, Alan, is like,

well, all I got's the indictment. You're telling me that all the discovery in this murder case is the indictment. And so the judge is like, no, I don't think that's what he's saying. I think that there's he's saying i think that there's a miscommunication about maybe what you've received and what you haven't received or what mr wyatt currently has in his possession

so this does not make denver allen happy at all he sees again that this strategy is not working and he begins to begins to get angry alan it's not going to happen i'm not going to trial with this attorney and the judge says well you have two choices one you can go to trial with him or two you can try this case yourself now i completely think that's and at this point alan tries to interrupt the judge like he's like talking over him and the judge goes wait a minute listen to me that would be the biggest mistake you've ever made in your life yes and alan interrupts him again and says so basically you're sitting here telling me you're going to find me guilty if I go to trial and try to defend myself. No, that's not what he's saying.

Dumb, dumb. And the judge goes, you're probably right. That would be my guess. If you try to defend yourself, you don't know anything about selecting a jury, do you? No. Do you know anything about cross-examining witnesses? No. Wait, he's actually saying this.

This is what Alan is saying back. No. Do you know anything about criminal procedure? This is what Alan says this time. I know I don't have to let this guy suck my dick to get some legal representation. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. my dick to get some legal representation oh my god oh my god that's true that is true that's in the constitution the judge says you know something i'll be honest mr allen. Allen. Oh, boy. I really don't believe that. I'm assuming he's meaning he doesn't believe that his lawyer is trying to make him let him suck his dick.

Not that you don't have to let him suck his dick to get good legal representation. Never assume. And Allen replies, I'm not concerned if you believe it or not, but I'm supposed to have the right to get an attorney and I'm not going to work with this attorney. Wait, so what was the attorney doing during all this? Just like sitting there. Oh my God. This poor man. Yes. Yes.

And the judge says, well, that's up to you. and the judge says well that's up to you at this point judge durham tries to reiterate the importance of having proper legal representation especially at a murder trial uh-huh but alan continually speaks over him and interrupts him this next exchange is where it really goes downhill are you kidding me okay go judge listen to me alan fuck you judge listen to me alan go fuck yourself oh i'm through here are we done judge i'm finding you in contempt of court alan i don't care what happens next is reminiscent of the judge nelson eat my shorts scene from the breakfast club you know this yes yes so the judge goes i know you don't i sentence

you to 20 days for that and if you say anything else i'm gonna add 20 days for that. And if you say anything else, I'm going to add 20 days for everything you say. Oh, no. Alan, fuck you. Oh, no. 40 days. No. Alan, fuck you again. No.

Judge, 60. Alan, go fuck yourself. Judge, a year. Oh. Alan. Now he jumped ahead. Alan, your mama. Judge, 10 years.

What? Yes. What? your mama judge 10 years oh my god alan suck my dick he says that to the judge in court. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. So this exchange has grown very heated. Obviously, the judge has raised his voice. He is pissed. Like, if anybody knows, like, your mama, that's where they draw the line. You know, you can say a lot of things.

Not about your mama. You insult somebody's mama. That is, it's not good. Norman once got suspended in elementary school because some kid said a Your Mama joke to him and he punched the kid. Oh my God. That's amazing. Weirdly, his mom wasn't super proud. She's just defending her honor. Yeah.

So judge is pissed. He is riled up. And he goes, you know something? This is going to be an interesting trial. And Alan goes, oh, yeah? And the judge goes, oh, yeah. And the judge has a smile on his face when he says that well yeah and alan goes you're not supposed to smile in court you know if you smile it's a violation what and the judge goes i can smile anytime i want i'm the fucking judge yes and'm the fucking judge. Yes. And Alan goes, now you're cussing and yelling at me.

And the judge goes, I have not cussed. I am yelling. And Alan goes, well, go fuck yourself. Suck my dick. Oh, my God. Again? And the judge goes, that's why I'm yelling. You know something?

You are absolutely the rudest person I think I've ever met. Ooh. Ooh. This is what Alan says back. Oh, God. What? You reckon if I let you suck my dick that I could get a fair trial here oh my god this guy is so obsessed with his dick clearly what the judge says back is even better what oh i don't

think so i don't think that's gonna get you a fair trial unless you have every one of the jurors do it okay this judge might be just as inappropriate as this guy yes that is ridiculous so yeah so this is what i this is it's funny you say that because the next thing i have in my notes here is that like clearly the judge has lost all sense of decorum and professionalism right now and we hold our judges to the highest standard. But I have trouble blaming him here because this is just I don't know that I could stay professional in these circumstances. OK, hold on. I know you. I feel like you are super professional.

And I think you would remove yourself from a situation before you said, let every member of the jury suck your dick. And I'm sorry. I know that I'm picking apart something really weird here. But why is he obsessed with people somehow benefiting from the privilege of sucking his dick? I mean, shouldn't it be the other way around? I really don't. I don't get that at all. I agree.

We'll come to find out that he thinks very highly of his dick, Kristen. I already suspected. Things continue to escalate and it just gets worse if you can believe it. Oh my God. Alan, I don't think your mouth is big enough. Oh, my God. I've got a big old donkey dick. Oh, my God.

And the judge says... This podcast, by the way, is explicit. It's such that I've done a warning at the beginning. No, I've started adding it to all our episodes. The judge says, you know, I'm sure mine's not. Meaning his mouth isn't big enough. And then Alan says, I mean, this is terrible. Oh, my God.

Alan says, I've got a big old donkey dick for that ass. What? Yes. Oh, my God. And the judge says, good. i'm sure women love it and alan says i don't fuck girls and the judge says oh oh no i'm i'm sorry and then alan says i fuck white boys with big butts. What? Which I feel like is a very small group of white boys.

You are really limiting your market if you're specifically looking for white guys with big butts. Brandy, the heart wants what it wants. I mean, good luck finding very many of those this is really bad this is what the judge says back oh no it's really bad okay the judge says so alan says i fuck white boys with big butts. Right, I did not forget that. And the judge says, oh, of course.

You know, you look like a queer. Oh. Yikes. Good boy. Yeah, really bad. And Alan goes, so now you're calling me a queer in the courtroom. Mm-hmm. And the judge says, I didn't call you one.

I said you look like one. Oh, great. Yeah. This is just completely out of control. Just wildly out of control at this point. You know what's... What? I don't know.

It's funny to me. It almost seems like a good strategy. Go nuts on somebody to make them show their true colors yeah oh my gosh yeah and then alan says i mean if you want to suck my dick you can do it anytime now oh my god we can get this court ordered no you cannot so the judge is so riled up by this point that he is full on taunting Alan. Oh, my gosh. The judge says, oh, you're so smart. You're so funny.

You're so cute. I know all the inmates love you to death. What? And Alan goes, oh, yeah. And the judge says, I bet everybody enjoys sucking your cock. What? The judge says that on the stand. Or at the bench.

What do you say it? That's not the part we need to worry about right now. I would say on the bench. On the bench. Okay. Yes. The judge is on the bench. The witness takes the stand.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the judge sucks the dick and the witness takes the stand yeah and the judge sucks the dick and the yeah and the farmer and the cheese stands alone though naturally no one wants the cheese at the orgy so this is completely out of control and at this point the judge is so angry that he is physically shaking more yelling and more requests from alan for the judge to suck his dick or had i cut out so many suck my dicks in this thing it is ridiculous did you have a limit of like 10 and you're like, people get the point. Yeah, I don't need to say it any more than that. I've met the quota.

We have a very strict quota on this podcast. We like to keep it classy here. And that's why we only say suck my dick 10 times per episode. That's right. That is correct. You know, our families are listening. Finally, the judge tries to rein it back in good he's maybe come to his senses a little bit and he says okay i'm going to tell you how this is going to work you either listen or not i don't

care we are going to have a trial a week from monday alan no the fuck we are i ain't going to trial with this lawyer present and the judge says listen if you act like this i will send you out of the courtroom and leave you out of the courtroom during the trial do you understand the judge asks alan if he understands four more times. And each time Alan responds with some form of obscenity. He starts calling the judge different names and whatever. Then things escalate even further, if you can believe it. Okay. Alan, how about this? I'll kill your whole family.

I will murder your whole family. I will murder your whole family. I'll cut your children up into pieces. I'll knock their brains out with a fucking hammer and feed them to you. Oh, my God. So the judge, like, turns to the court reporter and is like, are you getting this down? And the court reporter is like, yes, I've got it all down. I also got the part where you called him a queer. And the judge says, OK, I'm going to refer you to the district attorney's office.

Like, I'm done here. Register your complaint with the district attorney's office. And we'll go from there. I hate to tell you what to do, judge, but probably should have done that. Probably should have done that a long time ago. Yeah. And Alan says, I don't give a fuck who you're referring me to. I will murder you.

Your whole family. Your kids. I'm not supposed to be in jail. I was framed. That motherfucker asked me to eat his ass for a bag of coffee. And now you're telling me I got to go to trial with this fuck man over here? He's probably a pedophile. What the hell?

Eat my ass for a bag of coffee. Is that the going rate? Yes. The judge says, this is maybe the understatement of the year. You're obviously fixated on butts and dicks. Oh, my God. This is amazing. This is what Alan says back to him.

You've got a nasty mouth, sir. I am offended oh my stars and the judge says oh i have an awful mouth a small a, awful mouth. In their next exchange, Alan threatens multiple times to jack off in the courtroom. Ew, what? What's worse than that is the judge eggs him on. He's like, do it. Take it out. Whip it out.

Jack off right here. But Alan has cuffs on. And so he's like, take my cuffs off. I'll do it. Oh, my God. Yeah. And the judge is like, do it for us jack off for us and alan turns to the court reporter and says are you getting this and the judge says yeah they're getting this and alan says i'm going to make sure this guy has done called me stupid this motherfucker

done told me he was going to suck my dick and the judge says i did not say that i told you jack i did not say i wanted to suck your dick and alan goes uh you're a real nasty ass judge. And the judge says, I am indeed. And you're going to find out how nasty I really am. And Alan says, you're going to find out how nasty I am when I murder your whole family, bitch. And the judge says, oh, that's fine. You know, you'll be in jail so long you won't have a chance and alan says this is bad oh the babies will be going daddy daddy help me i'm just gonna knock their brains out with a fucking hammer oh and the judge says well you know if i had

any kids you'd probably be able to do that. But since I don't, doesn't really matter. And Alan goes, then I'll get your nieces, your nephews, your sisters. And the judge says, I don't have any of those either. And Alan goes, your grandkids. And the judge says, how can I have grandkids if i don't have kids uh-oh alan does not like being called stupid he does not and he he now he's pissed and he says you know what if you're not gonna suck my dick sir what i don't want to be here

wait wait wait yeah was this judge a white guy with a big ass you know i didn't look him up i have no idea i have no idea missed opportunity the judge says okay i've enjoyed this i hope you have i know everyone else in this courtroom has enjoyed it but you can go now and if this happens at trial you will not stay in the courtroom alan gets one last word in suck my dick sir he says as he's escorted out of the courtroom that was amazing the craziest pre craziest pretrial hearing ever. Beautiful. And I just have to say that some heroes are courtroom reporters.

Because it is because I can't even imagine how hard it would have been for that courtroom reporter to get all of that down. And she did so amazingly. You know what? SMD. She knew that shorthand she's like i'll go back and fill this in later yes so what happened next please judge durham immediately recused himself from the case yeah good call and reported himself to the Georgia Judicial Qualification Commission, which is a judicial watchdog party or watchdog agency, and took full responsibility for his, quote, improper and intemperate comments. So, like, pretty quickly after he was like, OK, I messed up big time. I need to do damage control.

And he totally, yeah, recused himself and turned himself in, like reported himself. Good call. The commission publicly admonished Judge. Admonished? What did I say? Admonished. That's not a word. That's when you do a montage of people admonishing someone.

They admonished Judge Durham, stating that he had failed to avoid the appearance of impropriety and failed to discharge his duties impartially, competently and diligently. Yeah. Yes, I agree. The commission, though, said it was impressed with Durham's candor and contrition, as well as his agreement to undergo sensitivity training and counseling. I do think it says something that he was like, I'm not going to wait for them to come to me. I am going to go ahead and admit that I did this. You don't think so?

Well, no. Here's my thing. I think sometimes you do that kind of thing. You apologize. You take it before a commissioner or board, whatever, because you feel bad. Yeah. other times it's because you're smart enough to know yeah yeah i'm gonna get in a lot less trouble if i just come forward and maybe it's a little bit of both yeah but you know yeah the commission was also convinced that he had learned from his experience and would not allow himself to be drawn into this kind of exchange again did they test him did they like have an undercover guy how many suck my dicks can he stand before he gets all riled up

ultimately denver allen pled guilty after his new judge, Billy Sparks, denied his motion that he had killed Nally in self-defense. He was sentenced to life in prison, which prompted him to threaten to kill the people in the courtroom, including the assistant district attorney. Assistant District Attorney Luke Martin had this to say. He's a dangerous person person he needs to be in prison until he dies yeah probably yeah um he did undergo after this exchange and before a new trial started under there was a delay obviously yeah, when all of this happened. He did undergo some mental evaluations, and he was diagnosed with schizophrenia, but deemed competent to stand trial. Yeah. So the transcript of this pretrial hearing went viral.

I had never heard of it. I've never heard of it either. It even resulted in an 11-minute cartoon reenactment from the makers of Rick and Morty. Really? Yes! I am feeling really, I'm feeling bad for the guy, you know, if he's schizophrenic. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I'm feeling kind of bad for everyone. Yeah, I mean, it's not great for anybody. I feel terrible for the public defender. But, you know, I'm beginning to think that public defender was pretty sharp to just sit there and say nothing because he's like. He's like, I don't want to defend this guy either. Well, and it's one of those things like I'm just going to let this guy talk and he's going to bury himself. You know, I don't need to jump in and say anything. Absolutely. and he's going to bury himself. You know, I don't need to jump in and say anything.

And I just like to reiterate that I think Faye Franklin, the court reporter, deserves a huge shout out for getting all of this down in what had to be a very chaotic environment. Thank you, Fast Finger Faye. The Fast Finger Faye! We salute you. And that's the craziest pretrial hearing i've ever heard of that is nuts that's totally nuts i'd never heard of it either oh my god yes

pretty bananas yeah what are your thoughts on that judge do you uh i think that he probably is a perfectly competent judge and got caught up in the moment. I think that says a lot that he immediately recused himself and reported himself and whatever. So, but I mean, I could see the side that you say too, where it's better to come forward than have them come after you. So, cause you know, they will. Oh, for sure. There was no way that he was getting away with this. Yeah.

Yeah. Interesting. Well, that was insane. Yeah. Thank you for that. Okay. And you know what? That was short enough.

I don't have to pee. Oh. Wow. Are you impressed with me? I ain't. No. I'm wearing an adult diaper. An adult diaper? In honor of this Wow. Are you impressed with me? I ain't. No. I'm wearing an adult diaper. An adult diaper?

In honor of this story? Were you inspired by this story? I was very inspired. Do you know anything about this case? A little bit. Okay. Enough that I know she wore Depends on her crazy car ride. Hey, that's just smart.

Okay. Ready? Yes. wore depends on her crazy car ride hey that's just smart okay ready yes it's february 5th 2007 a little after midnight colleen shipman has just spent the weekend in texas with her boyfriend billy she and billy have been dating for about three months. Things are going great. She thinks he's awesome. He's super handsome. She's super cute. Life is good. We're so amazing. If you want things to take a turn, just sit tight.

So the only thing that sucks is they're in this long distance relationship because he's in Texas for NASA where he's an astronaut and she's a captain in the Air Force so she's stationed in Florida. Other than that, things are great. So they have this romantic weekend.

It's just a gulf away. That's right. That's what they tell each other. They have this romantic weekend then she lands in Orlando International Airport a little after midnight. she waits for her bag. It comes. What she does not notice is that there's a woman nearby who has been waiting for her and watching her the whole time she's been in the airport.

Colleen goes outside to get on the shuttle bus. You know, it's one of those shuttles that takes you to your long-term parking. While she's on the bus, she notices the woman. The woman's kind of looking at her. She's wearing a white trench coat. She has black, wiry hair. And Colleen's friendly, so she smiles at the woman. But the woman ignores her.

I feel Colleen. Because when I accidentally catch like the eye of somebody when i make an eye contact my first response is to smile at them yeah yeah just to show like hey i'm yeah not a creeper right just sometimes it doesn't work out well yeah not here either so colleen doesn't much think much of it um soon, the bus gets to where she needs to be. She thanks the bus driver, gets off. The woman with the wiry hair gets off at the same stop. Immediately, Colleen's intuition tells her she's in danger.

But she ignores it. Because she's Brandy. Yeah. Yes. What? There's a man in my garage? What? That's fine fine i don't want to bother the police no so she's ignored she ignores it she thinks she's being kind of paranoid and

silly yes it's dark out yes it's late at night and she's in this parking lot but come on it's just some random very petite woman yeah so she starts walking to her car and she realizes that the woman is following her it's not good she picks up speed at this point the other woman is so close behind her that she can hear her pants swishing oh my gosh so colleen sprints to her car the other woman starts running too they are racing to the car but colleen is like two seconds faster than the other woman she throws the car door open hops in and locks it and like the second she locks the door the woman has her hand under the handle and she's like jiggling the handle trying to get in. Oh my God. Banging on the car window. Oh my God. I know, it freaks me out to even talk about. Beating on the car window, screaming at her,

and she's got this really scary look on her face. Colleen described it as a blood-chilling expression of limitless rage and glee. Jesus. Yeah. Ah. At this point, Colleen is thinking, this woman wants to kill me. She wants to kill me and steal my car.

So Colleen starts yelling back at her. And then all of a sudden, the woman's expression shifted. And she was like, can you help me, please? My boyfriend was supposed to pick me up, and he's not here. I've been traveling, and it's late. Can you give me a my boyfriend was supposed to pick me up and he's not here i've been traveling and it's late can you give me a ride to the parking office no i can't that's what colleen said colleen's like no this is too weird but she's not heartless she goes no i'm not gonna give you a ride but i can send help for you yeah how about that the woman starts sobbing she's like no don't send help can i just use your cell phone instead and colleen's like sorry the

battery's dead you can't use my no you can't use my cell phone no the other woman's crying crying crying and she's like what what i can't hear can't hear you. I can't hear you. Can I use your cell phone? And so Colleen starts to soften a little. No, Colleen! I think Colleen's just nice. I would have probably done the same thing. I think I would have, too.

Ugh. And frankly, I'm not a great sprinter, so she might have caught up with me. Oh, she would have passed me. She would have left you. Immediately, I pictured Mario Kart. And you just start turning and going the wrong way. Fucking clouds hanging in front of me. The wrong way.

He's like, turn around. You're like, no, this lady's creepy. So Colleen starts to soften. She rolls down the window a little. And that's when the other woman blasted her in the face with pepper spray. Colleen, I fucking told you. Yeah, we knew it, Coll colleen our spidey senses yeah her eyes and throat were burning her whole car was filled with pepper spray but she knew she

couldn't open the door or roll down the window because her attacker was right there so she just stomps the gas she's like i've got to get the hell out of here she speeds to the toll gate where she gets help and colleen is really shaken up obviously yeah but just so glad that it's over yeah she got away from the creepy stranger or did she but it wasn't over the creepiness had just begun i feel like i sounded like a Muppet. You did. That was supposed to intimidate everybody.

Oh, well, I'm very scared of Muppets. Thank you. Good. They're like clowns to you. So they take Colleen to the airport police station. She's just given them her statement, and she's sitting there, and it's clear that they've got the woman who did this to her in custody and she starts catching bits of conversation from the officers and she hears she hears the words military and astronaut then a detective comes up to her and like the

first question he asks is are you an astronaut and she's like really this is your question yeah this is so strange so she's like no um i wear this shuttle necklace because my boyfriend bought it for me and he's an astronaut yeah but she's like what does this have to do with anything yeah then on the desk between them she could see the detective had two IDs, a military ID and a NASA ID. And Colleen's like, did I give them my military ID? No, I didn't.

Yeah. So it must belong to this other woman. And she's like, oh my God, if this other woman's in the military and she did this, she's in big trouble. Oh, yeah. But what's with the NASA ID? And all of a sudden, Colleen's thinking, holy shit, did she steal an astronaut's ID?

Right. What is with this woman? Then the detective goes, does the name Lisa Nowak mean anything to you? So Colleen starts thinking and the only thing she can come up with is that her boyfriend had a purple bike in his apartment and he said that it belonged to his friend and co-worker and she's pretty sure the name was lisa noack but even though that name kind of rang a bell it seemed so inconceivable. Yeah.

So Colleen told the detective anyway. She's like, I'm pretty sure that's the name of one of Billy's friends. In an interview looking back on that moment, Colleen said, then I was thinking, that bitch stole Lisa's ID card. Oh, God. She goes, I might have even said, there's no way that could be her. She lives in Houston. Yeah. All these theories start going through her mind because she's trying to make sense of this.

She's like, maybe this is some weird astronaut club initiation thing where they go and scare somebody. I don't know. None of this makes sense. The detective is like, yeah, I need you to call your boyfriend right now. Wake him up and please ask him to confirm that he knows Lisa Nowak. So a few hours later, the story comes out. The woman who attacked Colleen was astronaut Lisa Nowak.

Lisa specialized in robotics. On her missions, she operated the robotic arms of the shuttle during the spacewalks. She was a captain in the U.S. Navy. She was married and had three kids. She won several awards over the course of her career and was pretty well respected. What the fuck? Uh-huh. So why the hell did she attack Colleen?

Well, probably because she was in love with Billy, I'm guessing. She did it for love! So here's the thing. When Lisa and her husband were separated, she and Billy started dating. And they dated for about two years. But then, and the timeline seems just a little bit messy here, She and Billy started dating and they dated for about two years. But then and the timeline seems just a little bit messy here.

But Billy says he dumped Lisa when he started dating Colleen. Mm hmm. Are you ready for the world's biggest understatement? Yes. Lisa did not take the breakup. Well, Yes. Lisa did not take the breakup well. So Lisa was very bad at being dumped.

So she came up with a plan to fix everything. Oh, gosh. So here's what I mean by messy timeline. After the breakup, Lisa and Billy still had contact. They worked together and they still saw each other outside of work a little bit because they were training for some sort of bike race together. I don't know. So Lisa would come to his apartment occasionally. But what Billy didn't know was that during one of those visits, without his knowledge,

Lisa gathered information on his new girlfriend. Oh my gosh. She got Colleen's email address, phone number, address, and the exact coordinates of Colleen's house. What? Mm-hmm. Around that time period, Lisa allegedly researched murder, disguises, and corpse dismemberment. Oh, my gosh. Then, on February 4th, she put her plan into motion.

Lisa got in her BMW in Houston with several items. A black wig, pepper spray, a BB gun, rope, trash bags, a knife, a trench coat, a steel mallet, and diapers. She also had... I'm sorry, my jaw was so far down, I couldn't even get words out. Yeah. This is a fucking NASA rocket scientist. Yeah. Yeah.

It just goes to show that breakups are hard, folks. It doesn't matter if you aced the ACT or if you're a total dummy. They're hard on everybody. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Holy shit. She also had maps, latexx gloves and colleen's flight information then she drove 900 miles to orlando international airport wearing an adult diaper

she paid for everything with cash then waited for colleen's flight to arrive she disguised herself in a black wig and trench coat and attacked colleen in the parking lot Okay. The look on your face. What's going through your mind? I mean, this is so crazy. It is. I mean, I remember when this case happened, so I knew a little bit, but I didn't know all these details. It's so much bigger than you think it is.

I remember all I remembered from this case was the diapers the diapers that's exactly what i remembered yeah and just that it was like whoa crazy yeah um yeah there's a lot more to it so like i said police immediately captured lisa and they actually caught up with her while she was throwing a bag into a trash can oh was it all of the evidence of the murder that she had planned? Yeah, they were like, looks like you're throwing away some evidence. Yeah. They get her to talk to them and she's like,

oh, I just wanted to talk to Colleen. I just wanted to see where I stand in this love triangle. You wanted to talk to her with pepper spray? Yeah. And a steel mallet. And a knife. And rope. And trash bags. Just a normal conversation. And gloves. And a trench coatet and a knife and rope and trash bags just a normal conversation and a trench coat and a wig and diapers you brought all that in your bag over here today right

because you knew we were gonna talk that's right um eventually lisa was charged with attempted kidnapping battery and burglary with assault and destruction of evidence she pled not guilty oh my gosh and man she got one hell of a lawyer oh my gosh he immediately argued that Lisa should be released before her trial because quote one's good works must count for something. No. No. When she fucking put this plan in action,

all of her good works out the window. It totally tipped the scales. Yes. But the judge agreed. The judge said, pay your bail, wear an ankle monitor, and leave Colleen alone. All she did was pepper spray somebody. So that was kind of the thought, I guess.

Because that's all she was able to do. That's not all she planned to do. The prosecution's like, oh, hell no. Yeah. She wanted to murder Colleen. Yes. This isn't just some lady with some pepper spray. She wanted to murder Colleen. Yes! This isn't just some lady with some pepper spray. She wanted to murder. So before Lisa was released, they charged her with attempted first-degree murder.

And that made Colleen, you know, pretty happy because she was like, Lisa didn't just want to talk to me. She wanted to kill me. And if I hadn't gotten that door locked as quickly as I did, I have no doubt that she'd be on trial for my murder right now so Lisa got this new more serious charge the judge raised her bail and Lisa was like cool I drive a BMW I'm a fucking astronaut I'm a fucking astronaut I can pay for this so she got out oh my gosh so I want to jump back and talk about the public reaction to this story, because this was huge news.

First of all, it involved astronauts. Yeah. And we only ever hear of astronauts doing heroic stuff. Yeah. I read somewhere that before this, no astronaut had ever been arrested. Wow. Yeah. I mean, the screening process, it's highly selective.

Yeah. They are American heroes. Yeah. Boy. But all of a sudden, people were like, yo, NASA, what's your screening process? Yeah. Are you just letting anybody into this program? What is the deal?

So NASA was very embarrassed. A month after she was arrested nasa was like okay thanks bye we're dumping you please don't track us down in an airport like goodbye sorry was that in poor taste i loved it um yeah i feel like that's probably why you've never heard of an astronaut being arrested because basically i would think that nasa has some kind of policy where you break the law you don't get to be fucking astronaut anymore well and i i was thinking like surely amongst people who are that highly intelligent and i assume pretty serious people yeah the chances that they'd go off and commit such a weird crime anyway people were shocked by the story but they were also laughing really hard because she wore diapers on the drive

from houston to orlando um so that was in the original police report it said that right after she was caught she let them search her car and they found the diapers. And the officer was like, why do you have these diapers in the car? And he said, Ms. Nowak said that she didn't want to stop and use the restroom. So she used the diapers to collect her urine. But later, when everyone was laughing about it, Lisa claimed that she did not wear them. And her lawyer actually got really fired up about this and he said it jeopardizes our ability to have a fair trial when the accused is the butt of jokes no it doesn't then we all had to pretend it wasn't funny yeah oh diapers aren't funny anymore she claimed that like the diapers had just been in her car

you know who doesn't have adult diapers in their car am i right they claimed it was like okay i saw this in a bunch of different places some places said toddler diapers some places said space diapers um what the fuck are space diapers astronaut. They wear diapers? Yeah. Yeah, dude. Maybe it's not that weird then. This is brand new information. I shake back everything I've said. If she had fucking space diapers in her car, she's an astronaut. She's probably allowed to have space diapers. Well, I'm sure she is.

But I think the fact that she told the officer, I use them to collect my urine. Yeah, because you wouldn't say that yeah if it wasn't true yeah yeah yeah you're right and then once everybody's like making a joke i didn't even use them which i don't know what her deal is that she's not anticipating that that would be hilarious yeah i guess she doesn't like a good p joke so the judge um oh hang on sorry i got way off track here distracted by the diapers so around this time lisa and her lawyer went to court to ask about removing her ankle monitor she's like this is uncomfortable sometimes the battery dies it's a pain when i work out and colleen is like um hello remember me i'm the victim too fucking bad yeah i sure feel better

when she's wearing it yeah and i did not write this down but i think i saw somewhere that there was an argument used against colleen here in that she during this time had gone back to visit her boyfriend which was around where lisa lived yeah and so people were like well obviously you can't be too afraid and she's like well you know what i'm not afraid when my boyfriend is with me but when i'm alone in orlando where she attacked me i sure am but anyway i think that's fair argument i think it is too and i hope i didn't just make it up i'm pretty sure i read that somewhere anyway the judge sided with lisa and was like yeah you can remove it anyway the judge sided with lisa and was like yeah you can remove it it's hard to pull down your pant leg that's awful i can't have that

are you fucking serious yeah yeah he let her take it off what the fuck i know i don't know what i would do if i were colle calling i have no idea i cannot wrap my brain around that yeah clearly the intent was there if she would have had the opportunity she was going to murder her yeah so her attorney continued to be a rock star if either one of us is ever in trouble yeah we have to find him down yeah track him down because he gets her ankle monitor off and then he filed a bunch of motions to get evidence thrown out. He filed a motion saying

that the five-hour interview she gave to police that night could not be used in court because police had not properly read her Miranda rights. And he's like, same deal with everything that was in her car.

They seized all of it without a search warrant and that's like same deal with everything that was in her car they seized all of it without a search warrant and that's not okay so a quick word on that because the look on your face is too much i mean this is just it's all falling apart kristen she's gonna get away with this so police did ask her is it okay if we search your car and And she nodded. But technically they should have had her sign a consent form. They did not have her sign the consent form. Oh my gosh. So the judge agreed with Lisa's attorney. He threw out all that evidence against Lisa, said you can't use that stuff in court.

And he said the police took advantage of her sleep deprived state. What the fuck does that mean? Well, my issue is like, OK, she was sleep deprived because she was driving across the country. To attempt to murder somebody. Yeah. So I don't even know what to say to that. I you're not taking advantage. Yeah, so I don't even know what to say to that. You're not taking advantage.

Someone has put themselves in that situation. Holy shit. Kristen, is she going to get away with this? Stay tuned. I'm not feeling good about this. So all of a sudden. Oh, no hints? No, no hints. All of a sudden, a ton of stuff was off the table the five-hour interview

the trash bags in her car the maps soiled toddler-sized diapers which to me says yes you did use them because no one puts soiled diapers in their car anyway okay all because in my opinion it seems like the police didn't dot their eyes and cross their yeah the person prosecution is like oh hell no that's our case you're throwing out there we can't let you do that so they appeal the decision so they appeal the decision and the appellate court says okay the statements she made can't be used. She wasn't properly Miranda-vised. Miranda-ized. Thank you.

Which is like, do these guys not watch Law & Order? I know! You have the right to remain silent. You have the right to an attorney. Anything you can say. Oh, I almost have it, and I've just watched a lot of Law & Order. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law boom why weren't we there i mean ridiculous but the stuff in her car is fair game that was

inevitable discovery you can use that in her trial that's what the appellate court says boom back in okay yep we're feeling i'm feeling better okay should i not be give me like a wink if she gets away with it no such thing suck my dick that's gonna be my new thing i say anytime someone even remotely so the trial gets pushed back because this case is getting messier and messier it's not looking good for the prosecution the defense is like we've got this we're going to a jury trial and we're doing the insanity defense by that point lisa had been evaluated by psychologists and diagnosed with asperger's oc OCD, and a single episode of major

depressive disorder, amongst some other things. So the argument at trial was going to be she was mentally competent to stand trial, but temporarily insane at the Orlando airport. No. Temporarily insane at the Orlando airport. T-shirt idea, band name idea. I t-shirt idea band name idea this podcast is done let's start a band yes i can't play instruments or clap to a beat so well we're fucked just like this podcast i I'm going to have to carry us.

Brandy's laugh is just so infectious. Shut up. She's just got magic. My whole family thinks you're the funny one, so. Thank you, Brandy's family. I appreciate that very much. Norman, on the other hand, likes to say things like, you know, you don't always have to get the last word in. And wow, Brandy really is funny. And she's got some good quips.

And there's just something magical. Like, shut up. Shut it. Anyway. Anyway. This podcast over. We've been torn apart. It gets shut down because I can't handle any nice things about you.

Like, guys, it's okay if you have a favorite. It just has to be me. So even though the prosecution can't use any of her statements from that initial interview, the stuff in Lisa's car is pretty bad. Yeah. Eventually, a judge unsealed some information related to the case, and that revealed even more information about what was in her car that night. What was in it?

Photos of a woman in bondage. What? Mm-hmm. Yeah, a little BTK action happening? I don't know. I mean, they... I'll come back to that later, but... Was it a picture of herself in bondage they they said

in the article that they couldn't identify who the woman was so i don't know if it was just a random woman yeah maybe a stock a stock bondage photo you know how like you just google yeah yeah getty images bondage woman yeah uh-huh but colleen later said in court that lisa had looked up corpse dismemberment and i wonder if the bondage had something to do with that maybe so like i said in her car photos of bondage some photos of colleen some british currency was the photo of colleen like had x's over the eyes and like a cigarette this isn't a movie no i think it was a photo from her like at a race and you know if you're in a race you can all those photos are available online yeah i'm in races so often i know exactly what you

mean you and lisa are in these races together, the other thing that was in there, 69 orange pills. What were they? No clue. Motrin? I'm trying to think of a popular orange pill. I like to think that the person counting these

was really immature. Yeah, they're like, they're closing in on 69. They put the 70 in their pocket. You guys aren't going to believe this. This is shit exactly 69. So I wasn't able to find out what those pills were exactly.

Just that there were 69 of them and they were orange. Okay. Could have been Tic Tacs. Could have been. And the British currency, who knows what that's about if she was gonna the word would not come out i got stuck maybe she was going to flee but the thing is like i can't remember the exact amount but it didn't

seem like much it seemed like the rough equivalent of like 80 bucks which if you're gonna flee yeah once she gets there she needs enough to get on the train to go to a hotel and then she can figure it out from there wow you've got a lot of confidence runaway bride left with 40 bucks christian she made it all the way to fucking albuquerque she made it all the way to fucking vegas and then albuquerque you know what you're right what i'm learning here is i'm too high maintenance when i travel. That is correct. Me too. I'm like, that wouldn't buy me my snacks.

If you think I'm just going to sit in a train station with no snacks. No snacks, no magazine, absolutely not. Gotta be kidding me. What's my coffee budget? I will eat ass for a bag of coffee people would stop they'd be like what kind of coffee are we talking so let's see where am i here so yeah the other thing that was kind of funny about this was you

know they uncover all this stuff but you've got some random stuff in your car yeah and i think they had some trouble figuring out what's related to the crime right so like they had some like usbs that had like her kids photos i think that was just like that's in my car yeah i'm trying to think of what's in my car right now that's exactly where my mind went to i have a blow dryer in my car did they think that i was gonna kill somebody with that maybe it'd be the perfect crime because you could be like i I'm a hairstylist. I'm a hairstylist. What are you trying to say? I'm surprised you didn't just go for scissors. I have shears and a blow dryer in my car right now.

I could kill somebody. All right, psycho. You probably also have latex gloves. And 14 empty protein shake bottles. Ew. Probably not 14 because usually I drink them on my way to work in the morning. And on Sundays, I take them out. So there's probably like six.

I see. When I say I take them out on Sundays, actually Zach takes them out on Sundays when he washes my car for me. Are you serious? Yeah. That man. He you serious? Yeah. That man. He's a good husband. Zach, if you ever get annoyed, just like call me up. Let's do the Wendy's

chili finger thing. We can make this happen. Like he isn't perfectly happy to be cleaning my car and taking my protein shakes to the trash, Kristen. Does he have a big smile on his face? He loves it. He's whistling. He's like counting down to Sunday

every week. Oh, I can't wait to clean Brandi's car out for her. That is a spot on impression of him, by the way. That's exactly how he sounds. He's got that high pitch. It's really shocking to people because he's got that big's really shocking to people he's got that big old beard

he grew it just to balance out the voice so we're headed for this trial the media is covering this yeah big time nasa is embarrassed the military is embarrassed poor colleen is a wreck all of this has been traumatizing and embarrassing you know it was bad enough that she thought someone was trying to kill her and carjack her but then to be a part of this like media circus and you know people always refer to this as the astronaut love triangle yeah and i guess to me i always think of a love triangle where like people know that they're in one well exactly like Billy would have to be a willing participant yeah in it like Colleen

doesn't have to know but for it to be a triangle Billy has to be the like the peak of the triangle yeah and be involved with both of the other women which he was at one time but not he wasn't cheating on Colleen with no it doesn't seem that way it does not seem that way but like the way this all came out it seemed like yeah something really sketchy was going on then in 2009 lisa's attorney did something surprising he withdrew the motion he'd filed a few years earlier that would have allowed him to use the insanity defense. So now, when they went to trial, Lisa could no longer claim insanity. Why?

Exactly. What the hell was going on? Then came the bombshell. Lisa's attorney asked for Colleen to be deposed again because he found a document filled out by paramedics that night and at the bottom of the page it said that Colleen denied any direct contact with the pepper spray and wasn't experiencing any burning. So I think Lisa's lawyer's argument here was police misrepresented what happened. What happened here wasn't that bad. She's been accused of pepper spraying someone. Maybe she didn't even do that.

Where's the real harm? The judge said, okay, let's move forward with this document and you can redepose Colleen. Let's see what happens. What? Mm-hmm. Was this just like a misrecorded statement? I don't know. I don't know. But it was filled out by paramedics. Now, Colleen said, a little later here,

she did say, yeah, it sprayed me. I had burning in my eyes and throat. She's always, you know, she said that in the media interviews I read. Yeah. She said that. Oh my God, continue.

If this bitch gets away with this. So, Lisa's trial was set for December of 2009. But in November of 2009, she struck a deal and she pled guilty to burglary and battery. Oh, my gosh. In court, Lisa said, I'm glad to have the opportunity to apologize to Ms. Shipman. I am sincerely sorry. I hope very much that we can all move forward from this with privacy and peace. Go fuck yourself!

Suck my dick! No! Yeah. She gets off with battery and burglary? Mm-hmm. Colleen also spoke, and she cried, and this was where she, this was the first time that I saw her say you know no it I was burning me it hurt it sprayed me in the eyes she said please don't believe this lie she's telling you about how she just wanted to talk to me she stalked me through

that airport if she wanted to talk to me she could have i'm a friendly person we could have had hot chocolates while i was waiting for my bag but she didn't want to talk she wanted to kill me did she say hot chocolate yes she said hot chocolate she really did i would not have made that up because i remember like thinking really we could have had a hot chocolate i don't know colleen said please don't be fooled. I was fooled. Lisa Nowak is a very good actress. Lisa was sentenced. Oh my,

I'm going to be pissed, aren't I? To one year of probation, no additional jail time. Shut the fuck up. Seriously. Your reaction is the same as mine. I can't even believe that. No.

To me, it seems like police were sloppy and her attorney was amazing. Yeah. And that was like the perfect storm. I can't believe. I cannot believe that. No. where are they now oh god if she's still if they got she got reinstated as an astronaut at nasa i will flip this table kristin pick up your beverages i'm just gonna say i've got like a half full iced tea here. You can't do that to me. NASA now has a code of conduct for astronauts. I think they were probably like, well, we didn't think we had to have to spell it out, but I guess we do.

In 2010, Lisa was given an other than honorable discharge from the Navy, which I guess is not a dishonorable discharge. It's like one guess is not a dishonorable yeah it's like one step up from a dishonorable which makes me wonder what the hell do you have to do to be dishonorable no kidding her rank was reduced from captain to commander her husband divorced how many steps down is that a couple i think maybe one i don't know how dare you ask me follow-up questions? I only asked it because I knew you didn't know. Oh, you jerk. Suck my dick.

No, here's... A new tagline for this podcast has become suck my dick. People click on it and it's just two women. They're like, what? They're like, what? That's weird. No, I think it's just two women. They're like, what? They're like, what? That's weird. No, I think it's just one step because it said, I think that she got her pay grade knocked down one notch. Please quote me on that. I invite you to quote me on that.

Her husband divorced her. I'm not sure why. I can't imagine why. People just divorce so easily oh my gosh um she now works in the private sector thank god i don't have to flip a table yeah but i mean i think she got off uh way too fucking easy yeah yeah billy ophelene and his nickname was Billy O. Just like Lisa, lost his career as an astronaut. They were both released around the same time.

Which kind of... That sucks for him! It made me wonder if there was more to this story that I wasn't seeing on him, because, I mean, if it's truly just he dated someone and she took... Maybe they have a no fraternization policy. I don't think they did, though. I bet they do now. But yeah, I was kind of surprised by that.

Yeah, I'm surprised by that, too. Colleen is married to Billy. Yes? Yeah. Oh, the silver lining. She and Billy have a son. They all live in Alaska. They went as fucking far away from there as they could yeah i would too um she and her husband both

retired from the military and now she's a novelist she just came out with her first book and it's about a creepy romance yeah no i didn't write down the description but it's like about a creepy romance thing you know wonder where she got some of the ideas paranormal stuff so that's the story of the astronaut love triangle that is nuts there was so much there that i didn't know um same here i when i first thought to do this case i was like this is gonna be hilarious yeah because i was like oh diapers no one gets hurt astronauts then i start reading and it's like oh my gosh i had no idea that that was the the motivation behind the nine hour diaper drive allegedly she was gonna allegedly attempt to murder her. Yeah. Yikes.

Yeah. Huh. That was a good one. It's. Yeah. Yeah. This story is way crazier. I mean, I thought it was crazy and it was way crazier than I even thought it was. Yeah.

Man. Mm hmm. than I even thought it was. Man. I have a story to share that relates to our Wendy's finger chili episode. Okay. Very excited. One of my regular clients, Doreen, she comes and sees me every week and I give her a shampoo and style and she's a loyal listener to the podcast excellent hi Doreen

and she just listened to the Wendy's episode and she said did I ever tell you the time that I bit into my burger at Wendy's and there was a penny in there what and I said no you did not so yeah she was at Wendy's she said it's been several years ago. She bit into her burger. She'd taken like a couple bites and then took a bite and bit something hard. Oh my God. I was like, oh my God, what is this? And so she opened it up and there was a penny in her burger.

So it wasn't, it was like on top. Like cooked in? No, no, no. But it was like on top of the patty, but like hidden by the condiments and stuff. Ew. And so she thought for sure that meant somebody intentionally put it there. Mm hmm. Because how else would that end up in there?

It's not like it accidentally got mixed up in the meat or something like that, which would be concerning, too. And so she had taken it home. And so she called Wendy's and was like, hey, I just bit into my burger and there was a penny in it. And the manager's like, well, can you bring it up here so I can see it? So she's like, well, I guess. Not very convenient. And so she takes it up there and she shows the manager or whatever.

And the manager's like, well, what do you want? She's like, well, I just want a new burger burger and so they gave her a new burger and 20 for the inconvenience wow you know what i would be worried that they would think that i was lying yeah one time i got it was just this grocery store down the street. Yeah. I went and bought a bottle of salad dressing. Yeah. And I got it home and I looked at it and I realized that it was half empty.

Uh-huh. And so I took it back because I was like, this is gross. Yeah. But the whole time I was like really prepared for them to be like. Well, didn't you maybe just use half of it? Yeah, did you eat all of it? No. So I bought like a

thing of like pre-sliced jelly cheese. Uh-huh. And it was like Did you say jelly cheese? I said deli cheese. Thank you very much. The look on your face is just limitless rage anyway

anyway but it was like in it was like on like a little styrofoam thing and it had a plastic seal over and when i got it home i saw that the plastic seal was open and i was gonna take it back but i was like they're just gonna think that i that I opened it. So I didn't. And I just lost that $4 because I wouldn't eat that cheese because I didn't know what had been done to it. You didn't give it to Zach like, hey. Hey, want some cheese? You want grilled cheese? Why don't you load this up?

No. I sat it in my fridge. I put the receipt on it. And then every time I opened the fridge, I looked at it and I said, I'm not going to do it. They're not going to believe me. I feel like they would, though. I feel like they'd believe you.

Do I have a believable face? You do. You do. I think I have a believable face. Or at least the lady was just like, oh, that's gross. Don't give me that look. Do you really? No, I do think you have a believable face. The face least the lady was just like, oh, that's gross. Don't give me that look. Do you really? No, I do think you have a believable face.

The face of an angel. Oh, I know. No, the lady at the store was like, that's disgusting. Get a new one. Yeah, that is disgusting. Gross. Good for Doreen for going back and getting another burger. I know.

She said she felt guilty about taking the $20, though. Really? Yeah. I would not. I burger. I know. She said she felt guilty about taking the $20, though. Really? Yeah. I would not. I wouldn't have either. Because to me, money is like just as dirty as a severed finger. Not that I would want, you know. But, you know, like money is disgusting.

Yeah, money is dirty. Yeah. That's why I don't have much of it. I'm just like, no, it's dirty. It's my choice if you enjoyed this podcast please tell your friends let everybody know spread the word like us on Facebook follow us on Twitter at let's go to court number two um on instagram at lgtc podcast and thank you to everyone who's giving us theme ideas oh yeah we love them we got some good ones i loved the idea for crazy divorces

yes that sounds super fun yeah the dead babies one though not as God. Was that Mark who sent us that idea? It really wasn't an idea for a theme. It was just his theme was actually the idea of Canada cases. Yeah, because he's from Canada. And so he sent us this case with dead babies

and I'm like, oh, boy, I don't know. I don't know if I can make that light enough. Yeah. But it does seem right up your alley. Thank you.

So I'll pass the torch to you on that one. But yeah, thank you to everyone who's come to us with ideas. Thanks for the feedback on the new mics. Yes. Yeah. And yeah,

tell your friends about us. Like us on, you know, our social media, all that good stuff. Leave us a review. Leave us a rating on if you listen to your podcast through iTunes. I don't think you can do that on the Android ones, right?

Yeah, I don't think you can. But even if you don't listen on iTunes, hop over to iTunes. Hop over to iTunes. Give us a rating. Give us a rating. Pretty, pretty please. Please. Please.

Please. And if you don't want to do that, suck our dick. And join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got most of my info from the Associated Press, People magazine, Court Testimony, and the New York Times.

And I got my info from articles by Doug Walker for the Rome News Tribune, articles in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, and the New York Post, as well as the hearing transcript. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours. but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.