Let's Go To Court! - 205: A Charlatan & a Family Annihilator

Episode Date: March 9, 2022

Is this the twilight zone? Perhaps it is. We’re wearing top hats on our tits, we’re putting Jello in our salads, and Brandi’s covering a charlatan while Kristin covers a family annihilator. What has this world come to? Brandi starts us off with a story about a Georgia pastor named William Pounds, who loved proposing to women, but hated staying loyal to them. On June 12, 2015, he called 911, claiming that his fiance Kendra Jackson had shot herself in the head. The scene didn’t quite match his story. Then Kristin tells us about Arlene and Seymour Tankleff, who were attacked in their Long Island home. The next day, their 17-year-old son Marty discovered his dad clinging to life, and his mother dead. Detectives immediately zeroed in on the boy, and who could blame them? This smelled like a Brandi case! And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: An episode of American Justice, titled, “Wrongly Convicted Marty Tankleff Finally Freed”  “Wrongful Conviction” podcast #84 Jason Flom with Marty Tankleff An episode of The Real Story with Maria Elena Salinas, titled, “Confessions of an innocent man” “The names stay linked: ‘Bagel King’ and Tankleff,” by Bruce Lambert, Paul Vitello and Nate Schweber for the New York Times “Martin Tankleff,” The National Registry of Exonerations In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “’Jekyll And Hyde’-Like Pastor Shot His Fiancée In The Head And Claimed It Was Suicide” by Joe Dziemianowicz, oxygen.com “Perry pastor on trial for fiancee's shooting death” by Tavares Jones, WGXA News “Perry pastor indicted in fiancee’s death” by Amy Leigh Womack, The Macon Telegraph “Bond revoked for midstate pastor charged with murder” by Amy Leigh Womack, The Macon Telegraph “Minister testifies in own defense at trial for 2015 slaying of woman” by Joe Kovac Jr., The Macon Telegraph “Former pastor sentenced to life in lover’s murder” by Joe Kovac Jr., The Macon Telegraph YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 30+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll be talking about a family annihilator. And I'll be talking about a charlatan. A family fucking annihilator? Who do you think you are, me?

Yeah. You know what I'm gonna do today? What? I'm gonna tell a Brandi story, but I'm going to tell it better. Oh, no! No. No. I am nervous because I'm in your territory. I'm waiting in your waters.

All up in my grill. All up in my business. My business. Yes. And it smells disgusting. That's rude. My business, my business. Yes, and it smells disgusting.

That's rude. And you're kind of in my business. With the charlatan stuff? No, no. Am I? Or is this a brandy case that I'm disguising? Something else. Mm-hmm. Well, I'm looking at the name you've provided me from the case, and I can only surmise that it's about earrings.

That's Kendra Scott. I'm sorry. You know what? While we're here in the ad corner, we should talk about our Patreon. Okay, we should talk about our Patreon okay we should because last week when we plugged the Patreon I think you know we were a little worn thin we were underwhelming about it

it's really a hot place lots of cool people there well the thing is like we had just recorded a bonus episode we were in no mood to plug our Patreon now I can tell you that at the end of the last bonus episode people told their fart stories in the Discord and we shared them.

We laughed so hard. I was in physical pain. And people have said it has ruined their morning runs. Yes. Because they have to stop to laugh. Exactly. So to get access to that,

all you have to do is join our Patreon at the $5 level or higher. That's all the levels. And to get access to that, all you have to do is join our Patreon at the $5 level or higher. That's all the levels. And you get access to that bonus episode and 31 others. Also, you get into the Discord at the higher levels. You get a card, a sticker. You get our autographs.

You get monthly Zoom calls. You get 10% off on merch at the highest level for the big spenders. That's when you get the ad-free episodes and you get them. A day early. Patreon.com slash LGTC podcast. That's where you go to get it. This is where you do it. You going to tell me about a charlatan?

I am going to tell you about a charlatan, Aria? I am going to tell you about a charlatan. What if you were the charlatan who came to town saying you were going to tell me about a charlatan and really you told me about a family annihilator? Oh, that would be interesting, wouldn't it? That's not what's happening. It's not. Because you watched Snapped. You did watch Snapped. I did not watch Snapped, you asshole.

I did, however, watch an episode of – It troubles me that you look so confused looking at your computer right now. Are you unprepared for this moment? No, there's one little note that I'm missing and I'm trying to find it real fast. I meant to make a note of it. I realized it on my drive over here, but I hadn't made a note. And then I was like, I'll remember to do that as soon as I sit down. And then you know what I did?

Forgot. Forgot. That's exactly right. So right now I'm currently stalling while I look for the note. You know, everyone, it's tough to be the only professional on this podcast. And I know that's frustrating for a lot of you. You think that Brandy is just here for the sex appeal. And that is why she was hired. Didn't really think it through the podcast thing. You know, you wouldn't see her, but that's on me. Have you found it yet? I did.

Hold on. I'm writing it down right now. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's not what I wrote. Oh, my God. Uh-huh. Exactly what you said.

Anyway. Mm-hmm. Okay. Oh, are you ready now? I am. I'm ready now. Oh, good. Okay. I'm ready. I was born I am. I'm ready now. Oh, good. Okay.

I'm ready. I was born ready. I don't know what you're talking about. Anyway, did you say that I'm very attractive? Is that what you were saying during the... Absolutely not. I have no memory. I said you were hired only for your sex appeal.

Oh, that's not really the same. Yeah, it is. All right. What do you mean? If you're hired for your sex appeal, it's because you're hot. What are you talking about? Okay. Well, how do you interpret that?

I don't know. Any way I can spin it for it not to be a compliment. You know, my brain's going to do that. Well, I'm just curious. I don't know. Let us in your brain, Brandy. It's kind of a sad place in there. May I guess?

Yeah. Okay, my guess is that you took it more as like she's not smart. Am I right? You know me too well. No. Brandy, you're very smart. Thank you. I appreciate it.

And you're very beautiful. Thank you. Thank you. That's so nice of you to say. It's true. Thank you. It's. That's so nice of you to say. It's true. Thank you. It's just really sad that you don't know that. I did just return from St. Louis where I participated in a trivia competition.

And we took first place. Won the whole thing. And after that, you went to a beauty pageant and you took first place. So I don't know why you're struggling with these issues. Okay, on to the charlatan. Okay. I watched an episode of one of my favorite Oxygen programs.

Oh, God. Here we go. Not snapped. Uh-huh. A little program called what? Accident, suicide, or murder. Oh, my gosh. Wait. Is this?

Oh, my gosh. Orange Theory is calling me. These motherfuckers. These motherfuckers. Won't stop calling me. Um. Is this the self-help guy? No. Oh, okay.

Who's the self-help guy? You don't know the story? John of God, that guy? No, I was not thinking of him. Oh. Who are you thinking of? Oh, the sweat watch guy? Yeah.

Oh, no. No, no, no. It's really creepy how all I have to do is say, he is a, and then you're like, oh, right. Yes. No, no, no, no. You've never heard of this guy. Oh. I promise you.

And you're going to know about seven words in why I picked this case. Okay. Okay. Shout outs, obviously, to that, my favorite program, one of my favorite programs, Accident, Suicide, and Murder. One of my favorite programs, Accident, Suicide, and Murder. And also to Joe Kovach Jr. and Amy Lee Womack for their reporting for the Macon Telegraph. It's a little newspaper in Macon, Georgia. It was the early morning hours of June 12th, 2015.

Oh, my God. Your birthday. When William Pounds III. Oh, what? Yes. Placed a call to 911 in Macon County, Georgia. Okay, everyone, this case takes place on Brandi's birthday, and this man has her maiden name. My maiden name.

Yep. Okay, yeah, you had no choice but to do this. I had no choice but to cover this case. Could be a real stinker, but it won't matter. It won't matter one bit. William was calm. Real, real calm. A little too calm.

Super calm initially. He called the dispatcher ma'am and said that he needed some help. And when asked what was going on, William explained that his fiancee, Kendra Jackson, had shot herself. He said she shot herself in the head. I need an ambulance. Please. I need an ambulance. Please. I need somebody here. All of that was very calm.

He explained it. But it was kind of Williams' nature. He was a pastor and he was a senior master sergeant in the Air Force. Oh, wow. OK. Yeah. Every article calls him bivocational, which took me a really long time to figure out. He had two careers.

I have never heard that in my life. I have never heard either. And literally every article uses that word to describe him. You know what? One person used it and everyone else was like, I don't know what that means. But, you know. This guy's a bivocational he's a bivocational so he was he he worked well under pressure and so he was very calm on that call. But as the call went on, he did get emotional. And he said, damn it, Kendra, why did you do this to me? Kendra, as I've already told you, was his longtime fiance. She was 46 years old. She was a divorced mother of two. And she was really well known in

their community. She was really involved. She was involved at the church that William was the pastor of. Her friends described her as the perfect balance of classy and sassy. Oh, oh my God. I love that. Love it. Yes. But now,

according to William, Now, according to Williams, she had taken her own life by shooting herself in the head with his firearm. So in the early morning hours of June 12, 2015, police responded to his home located at. Okay, hang on. All right. Located at 571 Bell Meade, B-E-L space M-E-A-D-E place, Macon, Georgia. There's not really anything great that comes up. There's no pictures of the interior. And I can't even get a clear description on some things call it a duplex.

Some call it a single family home. Gosh, it looks so cute. Yeah, it's a cute little area. You know, I'm a sucker for the big, tall trees, Brandy. I know. I know. It's a real, real nice landscaped area. Lots of trees.

Yes. Wonderful. As crews are responding, it takes about seven minutes for crews to get to William Pound's house. And as crews are on the way, the dispatcher is helping William perform CPR on Kendra. He's counting out loud with the dispatcher. And then the Cruz get there and he hangs up with them and lets the first responders in. And they go up to the bedroom where Kendra's body was and they immediately find a very bloody scene. And it's very clear that no amount of CPR will be helping Kendra Jackson. Yeah.

There were things about the scene that didn't look right, even to just like the first paramedics that got there. The blood around Kendra had began to coagulate, which to them meant that she'd been laying on the floor there for upwards of an hour. Yeah. And – Did he say in the 911 call that he witnessed her shoot herself or that – I'm glad you asked. So in the 911 call, he initially says she grabbed for the gun. And then a couple minutes later, he says, I tried to get the gun away from her. And then when the first firefighter arrived on the scene, he said, I was downstairs watching TV with Kendra.

We got in a fight. She ran upstairs, slammed the door, and I heard the gun go off. Okay. So those are all very different accounts yeah so that account is the first one that is told on scene so that's like the first firefighter who walks in the door and is like hey where's the body what's going on he sends the paramedics upstairs um william pounds met him at the front door and is like, this is what happened. And I've been performing CPR on her. And immediately they're like, OK, something's not jiving here.

And so they call a homicide detective in immediately. Lieutenant Shelly Rutherford was called in and she was there within minutes. And she said that she treats every case as if it is a homicide until she can prove differently. So even though the original dispatch went out that they were responding to a suicide call, she said she walked in the scene processing it like a homicide. And so from the beginning, there were inconsistencies with the story that William was telling.

First of all, he told three different stories at this point. Yeah, this doesn't take a genius. Second of all, the version that he was telling at the scene about her running upstairs, slamming the door and shooting the gun didn't make any sense because there was blood on the outside portion of the bedroom door. Yeah.

So it had to have been open at the time the gun was fired. Yeah. So Kendra's body was laying on the floor of the bedroom with her hand up by her head and the gun just resting neatly right next to it. Yeah, that's not how that works. And that's exactly what Shelly Rutherford said. She said, that's how it happens in movies. Yeah. That's not how it happens in real life. You never find the gun just directly next to the person who has ended their life if they have truly died by suicide.

I'm surprised with his background he didn't think of that. You know, it's interesting that you mention his background because one of the things that stuck out to the paramedics immediately is that this man is a senior master sergeant in the Air Force. And as part of his capacity in that job, he was trained in CPR. Oh, yeah. He was a trained – he was a trainer of CPR. Oh, yeah. He would need to. And he was a trainer of CPR. And so from their assessment, the minute they arrived at the scene was that no CPR was going to help Kendra. And anybody who was trained in any capacity in CPR would have known that and would not have attempted to administer it.

OK. He obviously killed her. But I will say in a situation like this when it's your own fiance, maybe some of that training goes out the window. Maybe you're trying something. Yeah. You want to try anything to save. Yeah. Save.

I'm not saying that's what happened here because he obviously killed her, but, you know. Here's the thing about the scene as well is that it was extremely bloody and William had been counting through the CPR, you know, chest compressions with the dispatcher. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten. Counting through them each time saying Saying he was giving the breaths. You know, he was out of breath the entire time he was on the call with the dispatcher. He's making all the noises. But what's weird is that while the bedroom was covered in blood. He wasn't?

Mm-hmm. No blood on his hands. No blood on his hands. No blood on his shirt. No blood. There was one tiny spot of blood on his pants. A tiny bit of blood spatter and that was it. Where there was blood was on the inside of Kendra's palm. The hand that she would have had to have held the gun.

The hand that she would have had to have held the gun with. Mm-hmm. Yeah. None of this looked good. I mean, this is like so straightforward. It's so straightforward. It's so straightforward. It's so straightforward. So they very quickly are like, you know, this doesn't make any sense.

And so that particular day they let William Pounds kind of believe that they were believing his story. And they went to processing the scene and they made notes of all of the things that didn't add up and there was a whole list of stuff. All that stuff I also already mentioned. There was also a second shot that had been fired in the bedroom at some point.

Oh my God. It had been fired into the mattress. But there were no shell casings. Well, yeah, because he picked those up. What an idiot. Yeah, but what had he done with them? They couldn't find them anywhere.

Can you imagine? I mean, you're trying, up. What an idiot. Yeah, but what had he done with them? They couldn't find them anywhere. Can you imagine? I mean, you're trying, you're pretending this is a suicide, but you pick up the shell casings and dispose of them. Yeah, so they asked him specifically about this. They're like, there's no shell casings here. And he's like, I haven't touched anything in this room. I haven't messed with anything.

I haven't touched anything. And they're like, okay. All right. All right. What did he say they got into a fight about? Well, so they had had an argument that night because William had tried to end their relationship. had tried to end their relationship. Kendra and William had been together for 15 years.

Oh, my gosh. They'd been engaged for years. They'd had weddings planned and they'd called them off over the years. So they'd met about in 2000. They'd met. Kendra was a teller at a bank in town and William's father was one of her customers. And she'd always joked around with him about how he was like a handsome older man. And he's like, you should meet my son. He's single.

And she was divorced and was, you know, thinking about dating. And she's like, OK. And so he introduced her to his son. Yeah. Yeah. And they hit it off they started dating she had two young daughters he was very involved in their lives i'm such a sucker because even though i know where this goes i'm like oh that's wonderful and he was this great guy he was in the military he was a pastor he was a really well respected pastor at this historic church that had been started back on a plantation in Georgia back in 1850-something when enslaved people would preach in just an open, like, arboretum on a plantation.

And then they built a church on that same area when they gained their freedom. Wow, that's cool. Yeah. And then it was like maybe 2010, 2012, when he'd taken over the church and become the pastor there, and everybody loved him. Was he the head pastor? He was like a – there was like two – I believe two pastors that kind of shared the duties.

Yeah. Super charming guy. Very smart guy. Very well-spoken. Handsome? Very handsome. Very handsome. Why do you always bury the lead?

I will say. Okay. There is some pictures of the night of Kendra's death. And he is wearing a billabong shirt. Big fan. More than many billabong shirts in my day. Right. But he pairs them with a pair of and one cargo sweatpants.

Oh, the cargo sweatpants. That's. sweatpants. Oh, the cargo sweatpants. So I will tell you that David owns this exact pair of sweatpants. He owns a pair of and one sweatpants with cargo pockets and I hate them. And I have made many

attempts to replace them. I buy him new sweatpants that have an assortment of pockets, but maybe not in a cargo capacity. Right. But to him, they just don't stack up. What kind of cargo is David hauling around in his shorts? I mean, he's really, he needs those, huh?

Yeah, you're really loading them down. So yeah, super handsome guy, super well-liked guy. I mean, everybody in town is like, oh my gosh, this horrible thing has just happened. This beautiful couple, Kendra, also a beautiful, radiant woman. They had this relationship that everybody had kind of been a part of as a community. You know, she was going to be the pastor's wife. But why did they keep calling off the wedding, though? Yeah, that's the question.

In 2014, they had had like a wedding fully planned. Uh-huh. And then it had been called off. And no one really quite knew why. Who called it off? Kendra did. Okay. Because in 2014, she found out that William Pounds had another fiancé.

Oh. What? Uh-huh. In 2005, William had met a woman who worked as a police officer in the Atlanta area. And he'd started dating her. Oh. At that time, he was already engaged to Kendra. They'd been together for five years.

Boy, he was just like proposing all over the place, wasn't he? And then he continued dating this other second woman and at some point proposed marriage to her. What the hell? In 2014 they found out about each other. Facebook? I'm not sure how they found out about each

other, but they talked to each other first and then together they other first. Wow. And then together they confronted William. Wow. But William was super charming. And he convinced them both that it was over with the other one. And he kept on dating both of them. Mm-hmm.

After they'd made contact with one another. Wow. He was a master manipulator. Mm-hmm. So this is the information that detectives find in the early days of the investigation. What is the motive here?

And they find out that he had two fiancés at the same time and he told them that the night of the shooting that he had told Kendra that it was – he was calling off their relationship. He was in love with the other woman. He never stopped dating her and it was time for him and Kendra to be done. He wanted to put his full effort into that relationship. And she lost it. She'd grabbed his gun and she'd taken her own life. And so detectives tracked down the other fiance and talked to her. And it turns out that some of what William had told them kind of checked out. Yeah, he was dating two women at the same time.

And yeah, it seemed like maybe he had told Kendra that he was going to – No, he didn't. They should call things off because on June 12th, he was supposed to marry the other fiancé. Oh. Yeah, they had a wedding planned that day that day yeah so kendra dies like sometime after midnight on june 12th early morning hours later that night he's supposed to marry the other fiance. What the fuck? Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yep. Did he really think he was going to get away with this? He sure did. He sure did. So they go. So they've obviously already flagged all the things at the scene that don't look like a suicide. And then they go back to his 911 call and they listen to it over and over and over again. And he's doing the CPR.

He's counting the chest compressions. He's doing all this stuff. But there are times on the call where the dispatcher is trying to talk to William and he's not responding. And they're able to figure out that he's been muting the phone. Because he'll come back on and be like, sorry, sorry, sorry. What was that? What was that? That's weird. And at one point when he unmutes the phone in the background, they can hear the sound of what sounds like a toilet flushing.

they can hear the sound of what sounds like a toilet flushing. Perhaps he flushed those shell casings down the toilet. Okay, but I mean still. At another point in the call, the dispatcher is talking to him and she's asking where he is in the house because the crews are about to arrive at the address and he's going to need to let them in and they need to know where the gun is and all of that, you know, standard procedure. And he's counting the CPR compressions. And then he tells the dispatcher that he's coming down to unlock the front door. And he's still counting the chest compressions.

Wow. Mm-hmm. He forgot to stop pretending to perform CPR. Oh, wow. Mm-hmm. I don't even know what to say. Yeah. Yeah.

Yep. So once they have all of this together, they've got the forensic evidence of the scene that doesn't match up, the coagulated blood, the blood on her hand, the two shots in the bedroom, the missing shell casings, his various versions of events. They're convinced that this is a homicide, not a suicide. And on August 21st, they arrested William Pounds and charged him with malice murder. What's malice murder? So it's a specification that not every

state has. I feel like I've heard this before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they don't, it's different than like the degrees of murder. So they don't charge him with first or second degree murder. They charge him with malice murder, which means he intended to cause great harm. Oh, okay. Yeah.

And his congregation could Oh, OK. Yeah. Never kill anyone. This had been a terrible accident. This was a horrible misunderstanding. Yes, it was a tragedy. Kendra, this beautiful, vibrant mother of two, her life had ended, but she had ended it. And they refused to believe anything else. Okay. So there are so many reasons why this is fucked up. One of them being, of course, you don't think your minister is capable of murder.

I mean, if you do, why have you been going to that church? You wouldn't go to that church. Exactly. But the other thing is like, OK, so this is a black man. And I assume this is a mostly black congregation. I would assume so. Yes. So, yeah, you're probably going to assume that they've got it out for him.

Absolutely. This man you trust says, my fiance died by suicide. Yeah, you would believe that. Yeah. And it would seem like just a tragedy upon tragedy. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. What they didn't know, what his congregation didn't know, that from the minute—

Is that he's a dumbass murderer? Yeah, and from the minute Kendra's death had occurred, from the minute he murdered Kendra, he distanced himself from her loved ones, from her children. Her children were teenagers. They had been a part of his life. He had been a part of their life since they were very young. And then he like completely cut off communication with them, wouldn't see them. Like, yeah, he murdered their mother and he didn't want to have to face them.

Yeah. Yeah. So his congregation could not believe that he had been arrested and charged with Kendra Jackson's murder. And so they did a fundraiser. Oh. And they raised his $500,000 bond. Oh, shit. Mm-hmm.

Oh, wow. And at his bond hearing, they testified as character witnesses. Some of them were asked on the stand if they knew that William Pounds was engaged to two women at the same time. And they said no. Admittedly, they did not. But that didn't change how they felt about him. Maybe that was an indiscretion. But he was a good man.

He was a man of God. And so William was released on bond. Oh, I'm so disgusted. Oh, my gosh. It's horrible. His bond did hold very specific special conditions. He was basically under house arrest with some very specific exceptions. He was allowed to make weekly grocery trips. He was allowed to make weekly trips

to Walmart, like one specific Walmart location. He was allowed to go to a counseling center. Was it a super center? I don't know. They specifically mentioned a separate grocery store and Walmart, so I'm guessing know. They specifically mentioned a separate grocery store and Walmart. So I'm guessing not. OK. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. He was allowed to have a monthly visit with his barber.

OK. Mm-hmm. He was allowed to attend two different churches on alternating weeks. So there was a church that – this is what makes me think that he shared the duties of the pastor of the church because on one week he would attend services at a church and on the other week he would perform services at his church. But he could only do that every other week. So yeah, he's out on bond on murder charges and he's still preaching from the pulpit. He gets out about as often as I do.

Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. He was also allowed to go to any doctor's appointments and have meetings with his attorney. Sure. In March of 2016, William Pound's bond was revoked and he was returned to jail after he was photographed attending a Mardi Gras party. Oh, wow. Yep. Mm-hmm.

Oh, wow. Yep. Don't worry, though, because the judge did later reinstate Williams Bond. But he was like, OK, remember this time, super, super double promise. You're not going to break those specifications. You're only going to go to the grocery store and Walmart and the doctor and the barber and, you know, all that. Are they not concerned at all about how bold this is? Apparently not. He went to a fucking party.

Yeah. Yeah, he went to a fucking party. He, I assume, posed for a photo? Yeah. Yeah. And this wasn't like a party at somebody's house. This was a party at a convention center. Oh, great.

So he can meet new people. This is a formal event that he attended. Yeah, he's meet new people. It was a formal event that he attended. Yeah, he's bold as fuck. So yeah, so he gets his bond revoked. He goes back to jail, but then he petitions again for bond and the judge is like, okay, but do you super

promise this time? And he's like, I super double pinky promise. And the judge is like, okay. And then in august of 2016 william was back in court because prosecutors were there to tell the judge that william had been violating his bond conditions again you're kidding he'd been visiting family visiting visiting friends, going out to eat, going shopping, just living it up, doing whatever the fuck he wanted. Yeah. This is just disgusting. It's disgusting.

Yeah. Yeah. Again, the judge revoked Williams bond, but this time he ordered that William Pounds would be held in jail until his trial. So I read a newspaper article about this. And at the time, his attorney was like, well, that is going to make it tougher to prepare for trial because it'd be much easier if he could come to my office. But, you know, that's what the judge says. And so that's what we'll do. That's what the judge says, and so that's what we'll do. Yeah, I mean, he could have just, like, followed his bond requirements. Also, how would you feel if you were a member of this congregation, you paid all of that money to bond him out, and then he's violating his bond conditions? I'd be fucking pissed. Yeah.

And violating them multiple times. what's that term faith abuse oh i thought you were gonna quote george bush which is what i did here fool me once shame on you fool me you can't get fooled again that's what i'm always saying to people. Finally, it was October of 2017 and William Pounds was in court for his trial. Prosecutors were really nervous about the trial. They were nervous that the jurors would put more weight into any testimony that William Pounds might give because he was a pastor, because they would see him as a man of God. They feared that whatever he – if he testified, that that might outweigh whatever – Well, yeah.

I mean it sounds like he's a fucking smooth talker. He's a real fucking smooth talker. So the prosecution laid out all of their evidence they had the dispatcher take the stand and talk about the weird 911 call they had the lead detective take the stand and talk about all the things of the crime scene that didn't make any fucking sense

they played the 911 call for the jury and it's good it's a good case it's a strong case but just as the prosecution suspected he might It's a good case. It's a strong case. Yeah. But just as the prosecution suspected he might, William Pounce took the stand in his own defense. And he was great on the stand. He testified about how he and Kendra had been together for more than 15 years. He testified about how he and Kendra had been together for more than 15 years.

He told the story of how they met through his father at the bank. He testified that – It is a really cute story. It is a super cute story. He testified that he believed that they had both seen other people at different points during their relationship. Oh, there's blame to go around. they had both seen other people at different points during their relationship. Oh, there's blame to go around. He testified that he had met another woman in 2005, that she was a police officer from the Atlanta area, and that they had slept together on the first date. And he testified that they had then maintained a relationship, and at some point he had asked

that other woman to marry him, even though he was already engaged to Kendra. He told the court that in 2014, his two fiancées had learned of each other's existences and they had confronted him about it. But he'd managed to smooth it all over. He testified that he had made, quote, false assurances to both women and convinced each of them that he had stopped seeing the other, but in actuality, he had continued seeing them both. He then testified about the night that Kendra Jackson died.

He said that on the night of June 11th, 2015, and into the early morning hours of June 12th, he and Kendra had sat in bed watching the NBA finals. He said that Kendra had a beer. They'd shared some dessert. And at some point he decided it was time to come clean with her. Time to break it off and let her know that he was in love with this other woman and that it was over between them. You know, because he was supposed to get fucking married the next day. Yeah.

I mean, no time like the present. supposed to get fucking married the next day yeah i mean no time like the present william testified that when he did this kendra got mad and quote lost it he said she yelled and hollered and said among other things you done made a fool out of me for too many years you've hurt me too many times and I'm just tired of your shit. He then went on to detail for the jury an expletive-laced tirade she had unleashed on him in which she, according to William, cussed him out for, quote, embarrassing me like this. Mm-hmm. Kissing me like this.

And then choosing to take up with some bitch when you know I love you. So, interestingly, the details of this tirade he could remember very clearly. But the details of the shooting were pretty foggy for him on account of his clustered mind. Yeah. That's what he said. Clustered. Clustered mind. I'm just thinking – I'm thinking it is no accident that in the speech that he is attributing to her, there are so many curse words. Oh, absolutely.

Because he is this well-spoken, just man of God who has it together. He's very calm. And she's just some crazy bitch. And a lot of people, and I think, you know, particularly in the South and Midwest too, like a woman cursing. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's so shocking. My dad has to call him F-bombs. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's so shocking.

My dad has to call him F-bombs. That's right. Who the hell calls him F-bombs? Your dad. Every other old person. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So he testified that he couldn't remember what exactly happened next, and that's why his story had been inconsistent.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And he talked specifically about that version of the story that the firefighter had talked about. So the firefighter testified at court that he had arrived at the scene and, you know, William had told him that very different version of events. And on the stand, William said, I can't say whether he's right or wrong. That's interesting. I know.

I think it's a really interesting. Well, he's got his clustered mind. He can't remember. Then William Pounds testified to his version of what happened that night. He said during the fight where Kendra, quote, lost it, she got out of bed and she got dressed and then she picked up his.40 caliber pistol off the dresser. William said he thought she was going to leave and take the gun with her. But then she was so mad and she was looking at him. He thought that she was going to shoot him while he was laying in bed.

And so he started to get out of bed. He testified that he couldn't be sure if she fired a shot at him or not. How do you not know? Maybe she did. Maybe she fired a shot. Maybe that's why there's a shot into the mattress. Maybe that explains it.

I can't be sure. You can't be sure? You can't be sure if a shot was fired at you? Really, William Pounds? My concern is that you're not as charmed by him as you need to be. I'm not. I'm not charmed by Mr. William Pounds.

Other than the fact that I like his name as William Pounds. Yeah, you sure do. Yeah, it was just all a blur. He couldn't be sure. What he was sure of was that something changed in her. It was clear to him that she was not going to shoot him because at that point she stuck the gun to her head.

William said he begged her to stop. He yelled, please stop. And he like scrambled to try and get up out of the bed and he scurried across the blankets. That's what he said to the foot of the bed where Kendra was standing. He said, I put my hands on her hands. I remember I tried to get the gun. And then I heard the gun go off. At this point, William broke down on the stand and through tears, he said, blood was just everywhere. I'd like to point out that according to his version of the testimony right here, he was in physical contact with Kendra when she shot herself, according to him. And there was blood everywhere.

Yes, he had no blood on him. Just fun facts all around. Yeah, that's super fun. Yeah. You're a great time at parties. Yes, I am. Great time at parties. Yes.

William Pound's testimony lasted about 90 minutes and concluded with two direct questions from his defense attorney. The first was, did you put that gun to the head of Kendra Jackson and pull the trigger? And William said, no, sir. I could never do that. The final question was, did you kill her? And William Pound said, no, sir. No, sir. During closing arguments, the defense – Wait.

I found nothing about cross-examination, so sorry. You get nothing. Boy. You know, don't think that I'm not a little upset about the fact that you couldn't tell me what dessert they had that night. Seems like this program is leaving out key details. Key details, yes. During closing arguments, the defense did that thing I love. Franklin J. Hogue, Williams' defense attorney, told the jury that, yes, his client was a self-centered hypocrite.

He was a manipulator of the women who loved him. He was a manipulator of the women who loved him. Women to whom for years behind their backs he had professed his love to the other. He admitted it all. Mr. Pounds has sat on the stand and confessed his sins to you. But he's not a murderer. In the prosecution's closing arguments, they used Kendra Jackson's words.

They presented a text message Kendra had sent to the other fiancé shortly after they discovered each other and it said, what happens in the darkness always comes to light. Oh. Mm-hmm. Then the prosecutor motioned to the defense table where William sat hunched over a Bible, something he had done throughout the trial. Mm-hmm. And he said, perhaps he should have spent more time reading his Bible instead of juggling two

fiancés. But that Bible isn't for him. That Bible is for you. Oh, oh, that's good. Oh, I love that. So good. Yeah, the prosecutor then went on to say that the Bible was a prop William was using to try and fool the jury to make them believe he was a man of God the same way he had fooled his two fiancés. He's lying.

He has lied to everyone who has had anything to do with this case. to everyone who has had anything to do with this case. The jury of seven women and five men deliberated for three hours and 15 minutes before finding William Pounds III guilty of malice murder. And because apparently Georgia doesn't fuck around, William Pounds was sentenced immediately after the verdict. Oh, OK. And all this whole trial was like only four days. When it came time for sentencing, the judge, Howard Z. Sims, lit into William. He said, Mr. Pounds, and I'm not going to dignify you by calling you Reverend Pounds.

You didn't earn that. You are a liar. You are a manipulator. And frankly, you're an all out charlatan. Oh. I don't believe the truth is in you. Oh, he said he'd heard nothing from him on the stand that day that he believed even a little bit. He then went on to say that there was a price to be paid for all of that deceit.

He said, I sentence you to life in the penitentiary without the possibility of parole. Moments after William Pounds was sentenced, just before he was shackled and taken off to prison, he walked up to the defense table and picked up his Bible. and picked up his Bible. Then he turned to an unidentified person in the gallery, someone there supporting him, and gave a little shrug and a nod toward the Bible and mouthed, I tried. No way. Yep.

Yeah. According to the article in the Macon Telegraph, that's what he did right before he was taken off to jail. Oh, my. And that is the story of a charlatan named William Pounds. Who committed murder and tried to get married on your birthday. On my birthday. Sometimes the cases choose you. Shut up!

Did you like piss your pants when you saw all that? Oh, I sure fucking did. What a weirdo. Randy, you ready? You ready for me to get all up in your territory? Yes. How are you feeling? A little nervous?

No, I'm excited. Oh, okay. Yeah, please tell me about a family annihilator. Oh, gross, you weirdo. Sorry. All right, well, I'll do it. Okay, shout outs to an episode of The Real Story with Maria Elena Salinas titled Terror on the North Shore and an episode of American Justice titled The Bad Seed. Oh, okay.

Okay. Thanks a lot. You're welcome. May need to bleep that, Patty. Anyway. Are you familiar with this case? No, I don't think so. The name you sent me, I've never heard before.

Okay, here we go. Picture it. We're in Belterre, Long Island. And it is nice. Belterre is on the north shore, Long Island. And it is nice. Belterre is on the north shore of Long Island, and it is for people with money. The houses are massive, and the median household income is $132,000. Oh, okay. What do you mean, okay?

That's good. Well, yeah, but I don't think that's making – that's not buying you much house in Long Island. Well, no, they're all millions. Yeah. So it's a median. All right. Well, I was impressed. Fine.

All right. All right, moneybags. No, I just mean like I know what real estate goes for in Long Island. You looking at Long Island a lot, are you? No. Anyway, you know, not by your standards, but by other people's standards. Yes, that's a good medium. They're doing all right.

And Seymour and Arlene Tankleff were no exception. In fact, here's how rich they were, Brandi. How rich were they? On the wall of his home office, Seymour had a big-ass fish on display. Oh. It was one of those with the mohawk and the pointy beak and the little bitty arms. A marlin. It's the kind of office accessory that just screams, ah, success.

That was my dolphin impression. Was it a marlin? I don't know. Yeah, probably. This was fitting because Seymour owned a super successful insurance business. And I tried to get more information on Arlene, but the most I got was that she was Seymour's second wife. So that sums her up perfectly. Yes.

What more do we need to know? Jesus. In 1971, they adopted a little boy whom they named Marty. And wow, they were obsessed with Marty. Admittedly, they did spoil the boy. They got Marty anything he could ever want. Interviews showed that like they didn't have like super wealthy childhoods themselves. And so they just like –

Yeah, really piled it on for Marty. He got ATVs. They traveled a ton. Did he get a Barbie Jeep? Probably because his parents loved him. traveled a ton did he get a barbie jeep probably because his parents loved him i don't think he probably wanted like the gi joe jeep because gender but i bet he got it brandy because it's what year i don't know it's the freaking 80s man yeah although no when he was getting the the jeeps yeah 70s nobody's letting yeah know, we're much more loose.

And we're not even that loose with it now. Well, you're loose, but others of us are tight. Because we've been rejuvenated recently. Yeah. Anyway. As Marty got older, he told his parents that they should get a boat. Actually, they already had other boats, but, you know, I guess another. We got to get a bigger boat.

There we go. Okay. We're going to need a bigger boat. Okay, we get it. Brandi, you've seen movies. So they got a boat. They called it Mr. T's Toy. Oh.

I hate it. I hate that name. Yeah, I mean, that's what people name boats, though. Mr. T's toy? That sounds like a penis. My grandpa's boat was called Jerry's toy. Ew, really? Yeah.

Is this a thing? Yeah. That sounds like a penis. You say a man's name, this is his toy, it sounds like a penis. Okay. I can't be the only one who thinks that. I'm sure you're not. Do you agree?

Yeah. All right. I don't. It was in my grandpa's boat, so. Oh, sorry. I didn't think how weird that would be for you. Let's talk about your grandpa's penis. I would like to not.

Thank you. For Marty's 17th birthday, they got him a nose a nose job also my grandpa's last name is marty so also he got a nose job he did not get a nose job 17th birthday get a nose job i feel like isn't there room still room for improvement naturally at that point well i guess if you got a big old honking nose, I mean, it's only going to grow more, right? I guess that's true. It's not going to get smaller.

I guess I would kind of feel like, aren't you still growing into your features a bit? Yeah, that's what I meant. Well. Yeah, I think people, you're still kind of in an awkward phase at that point. Not me, I was super high. I peaked at 19.

Would you say you peaked at 19? Yeah. Okay. That was the time in my life where I found myself the most attractive, which was a very low bar. You were super tan. I was. I was super tan.

Yeah. We'd just opened the tanning salon, so I was very tan. My hair was very long. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. in the tanning salon, so I was very tanned. My hair was very long. And I wore a black fingernail polish and a studded belt every day. And I was

cool as fuck, obviously. Obviously. Obviously. Trying to think of when I felt the most hot. I don't know. She comes and goes. Seymour and Arlene

did their best to instill good values in Marty. But judging from the title of that American Justice episode, I don't know that it worked. Arlene wanted to raise a gentleman. So she taught him good manners and she made sure that he learned how to cook

and clean. And Seymour envisioned that one day Marty would take over the family business. So he tried to ensure that Marty had a good noggin for business. What is the family business? Insurance. Can you pay attention? Did you say that already? Yeah.

Successful insurance company. I don't know. Big fish on the wall insurance oh yes life insurance homeowners you want me to name different types of insurance am I like Bubba Gump

here Bubba Gump is two different people oh you're right Bubba Gump what was Bubba's last name Benjamin Buford Blue oh god

I should have known you would know and be so smug about it. What? That's not even right. It's right. I'm super arrogant about it. It's probably not even right.

Should we see? No, we shouldn't. Give me a break. Trying to tell you about a kid with a nose job, trying to tell you your favorite story on earth and you're just looking up Bubba's on the internet. That's right.

That's what Brandy searched for on Tinder in her hoe phase. Bubba's on the internet? Bubba's on the internet. What? He's doing a top billing? In order of appearance that's going to take me for fucking ever to find him. Come on, Bubba.

Anyway, how are you doing? Oh, I'm doing great because we pay our editor by the minute. So I'm just like, hey, take however long you need to look up the name of an obscure character. No, he's not obscure. From Forrest Gump. Please don't rush. Don't rush this process at all. What did I say his name was?

Benjamin Buford Blue? Sure. That's correct. Permission to go back to my story. That's correct. Permission to go back to my story. So, yeah, he's hoping Marty will take over the family business, which, by the way. Is insurance. We already know this.

Oh, do we? All right. Big fish on the wall insurance. Yeah, stop repeating it. Yeah, perhaps Marty would one day have a big ass fish of his own on his office wall. Okay, that's the dream. The dream. But let the record reflect that Marty Tankleff's life wasn't all peaches and cream.

His parents. Total drag. They made him drive an old Lincoln Town Car to school. Just try to look cool in a Lincoln Town car, Brandy. I dare you. It's impossible unless you're sitting in the back seat of it. Why? Because then you have a driver.

Okay, fair. Also, Marty wanted to use Mr. T's toy a lot. See? It sounds like penis. I don't make these things up. But he was only allowed to use it sometimes. Uh-huh. What about the other boats? I don't know. I assume it was a sometimes basis

there, too. Okay. I mean, yeah, he's a fucking teenager. You can't just be taking the boat out all willy-nilly. What if he really wants to? Too fucking bad! You fucking spoiled brat. Oh, bitch. I'm worried that you...

My parents didn't have any boats. Did they let you drive a Lincoln Town car to school? No. I drove a Dodge Avenger. It was very cool. It was very cool. It was very cool. Yeah, so that's what he was dealing with, Brady. You really don't know what other people have been through.

So think about that the next time you judge somebody. Okay. I'll be sure to. Seymour had a daughter from a previous marriage. Her name is Sherry. And yes, it is spelled the same way that my mom spells her name. Thank you for asking. We were all wondering.

And Sherry was a bit older than Marty. She considered herself as more of a mother figure to him than a sister. And as Marty matured, she grew kind of less and less pleased by his behavior. she grew kind of less and less pleased by his behavior. In fact, in early September of 1988, Sherry says that her dad, Seymour, came over to her place, sat down, and was just like disgusted. He's like, I'm done. His behavior is reprehensible.

I have an appointment with an attorney to change the contents of my will. Okay. Yeah. Wow. Cutting him out. Cut, cut, cut. Okay. Yeah. Wow. Cutting them out. Cut, cut, cut. That's right. Sorry, I was thinking about that stupid

full house joke. Cut it out. Oh, God. You gotta do the finger. I know. You gotta... Yeah. Finger bang.

Finger bang. Yeah. Okay. We both made... We're on the same page. Ridiculous fingering. We're on the same page. Ridiculous fingering. We're on the same very strange page. Sherry was stunned.

She hadn't seen this coming, but, you know, their money, their choice, I guess. Yeah. Approximately 24 hours later, it was September 7th, 1988, 6.14 a.m., and it was 17-year-old Marty's first day of his senior year of high school. He called 911 in a panic. He told the dispatcher that he needed an ambulance because his father was gushing blood. Oh, my gosh. He gave the dispatcher his address. 33 C- I gave you dispatcher his address. 33.

I gave you the finger. I'm sorry. I mean, not that finger, but like a finger like, hey. How dare you finger me? 33. 33 Seaside Drive, Belterre. OK. Seaside Drive. This is going to be a fancy place.

It's not as fancy as some of the places around it. It's a ranch and, you know, because – Oh, I'm sorry. This isn't fancy? Yeah, OK. There's a little patio overlooking the water. I'm just saying compared to some of the other places. This is the only picture available on this particular website.

Yeah, so, and if you go to Google Images, the new owners have put up just like a wall of shrubs. Yes, you can't see to that. Oh, this is cute, though. What'd you find? I found a redfin listing that, oh, no, once you click on it, it only has the one picture. Yeah. Okay, but if you look at it in the Google Images, you see the yellow.

That's cute with the big like bay window. Yeah, it's a beautiful house. Yeah. All right. I'll allow it. Yeah, fun fact. It's worth over a million but sold for under a million. I can't imagine why.

Two people were murdered there? Just hang on a second there. Okay, here's how the call went. You ready? Yeah. Marty. He's gushing blood from the back of his neck. He's got a cut.

Dispatcher. what happened to him? Marty, I don't know. I just woke up and he's in the office. He's gushing blood. Please. Dispatcher, all right, listen to me. I want you to take a clean towel. Marty, yes.

Dispatcher, wrap wherever he's gushing blood from. Marty, okay. Dispatcher, wrap wherever he's gushing blood from. Marty, okay. Dispatcher, lay him down if possible. Get his feet elevated, and we'll have someone down there for you. By the way, I listen to more of this 911 call. I got to say, the New Yorkers, they will tell you, slow down. I can't write that fast. They will tell you, slow down. I can't write that fast. They will tell you, no, no, no.

I mean, my Midwest sensibilities were just scandalized. Marty says he did what he could for his dad and at some point went looking for his mom. He found her on the floor of the primary bedroom, dead. Was she also bleeding? Well, was there blood? It was very, very blood. Okay. An ambulance arrived, and rescue workers found Seymour unconscious, but still alive.

He had multiple stab wounds to his neck and chest. They rushed him to the hospital, and he slipped into a coma. There was nothing to be done for Arlene. She had been beaten over the head and nearly decapitated. Oh, my gosh. The scene in the bedroom showed that she'd fought for her life. Officers took Marty outside when they processed the scene, and Detective James McCready

arrived and he was immediately struck by Marty's odd demeanor. Marty was super calm. He didn't even seem upset. He was just sitting outside with his legs crossed and his bloody hands folded over his knees. Well, he'd rendered aid to his dad, so he would have blood on him. Sure, yeah. Just a little casual, though, was what the detective was thinking. Yeah, okay. So Detective James was kind of like, this is a little odd, and he approached Marty, and Marty immediately offered up a suspect.

He said he knew who'd attacked his parents. It was the Bagel King of Long Island. What? Yeah. Famous bagel feud going on here? Everyone knew the Bagel King of Long Island. Okay. His name was Jerry Steuerman, and he was a fourth-generation bagel maker.

His name was Jerry Steuerman, and he was a fourth-generation bagel maker. He owned Strathmore Bagels, and he wore capizios and a gold bagel pendant necklace. Okay, that was custom-made, and that's fucking cool. He also wore, speaking of custom-made, a curly toupee, which looked as good as you might imagine. Capizios. Capizios were cool. Were they? Okay.

I associate Capizios with like dance shoes, but he wasn't wearing Capizios to the bagels. Capizios were like high-end, older person footwear. Think Steinmart. Steinmart always sold Capizios. Okay. Remember Steinmart? Well, yes. Do I remember Steinmart? Bite your tongue. Okay. Okay. So, Marty

told detectives that his father had loaned Jerry some money and now Jerry wasn't paying it back. Clearly, he was behind the attack. And Detective James was like, okay, well, you know, I'll look into that. But for now, why don't you tell me what you've been doing this morning? And Marty obliged. He said he'd woken up at 610 a.m. and he saw lights on in the house. And that was unusual, so he began looking for his parents. He found his dad first and called 911.

He administered first aid like the dispatcher told him to, and that's how he got the blood on his hands. And then he looked for his mom. He looked in her bedroom but didn't see her. And then he went to the garage to see if her car was still there, and it was. So he went back to the bedroom, and that's when he saw his mother dead on the floor. Detective James McCready was pretty intrigued by this story because it didn't match the physical evidence. Marty had blood on his hands, but if he had blood on his hands when he went to the garage, why wasn't there blood on the door leading out to the garage?

Also, Marty claimed he hadn't gone back into his room at all after he'd administered first aid to his dad, but there was blood on a light switch plate in Marty's bedroom. So Detective James was like, smells like a brandy case. Yeah, sure does. So he took Marty to the station, but told Marty that he was going to the hospital. And because Marty was not in official custody, Detective James did not read Marty his Miranda rights because he was more of a Samantha. Very good. It was a real thinker.

I was going to say, if you're thinking that I didn't laugh because I didn't get it, you're wrong. You know what? Here's the thing. I laughed when I wrote it. Very good. And I smiled to myself thinking, Brandy's going to hate that. Fun fact, Marty's lawyer didn't even know he was being interrogated.

For the next few hours, detectives questioned Marty. And it got aggressive. But that was to be expected. The Suffolk County Homicide Squad was known for their interrogations. In fact, they had a very impressive 95% conviction rate based on confessions. No, that sounds like there's a lot of coerced confessions. No, no, no. Hey, hey, hey.

Fuck, is this... Did Marty not kill his parents? Brandy, goddammit. See, they were the best in the biz. I don't think... That's how you get the 95% conviction. Even the best in the biz do not have a 95% conviction rate

on confessions. That is coerced... I'm sorry you're jealous. I'm sorry you're jealous. I'm sorry you're jealous of this homicide squad and how good they are at solving crimes. I'm real nervous now. I was about to say terrible things about Marty. I think I'm going to keep him to myself. You called him a brat earlier.

Well, I still probably think he was a brat. Now I'm not sure he's a murderer. So they questioned Marty and questioned Marty and he kept denying it. He said, no, I didn't attack my parents. But the evidence suggested otherwise. Arlene had obviously died in a struggle and detectives told Marty that they'd found hair in her fist. They tested the hair and it belonged to Marty. Already?

Yeah. They're fucking lying to him. There's no way. No, they tested the hair. No, it's fucking 1988? Yep. Best technology. No! He'd done this. He'd done it and this had been such a bloody crime scene. but he only had blood

on his hands and that was because he'd showered after he'd attacked his parents hadn't he and marty said no no i didn't attack my parents i didn't take a shower this morning i woke up and you know but then they told him that they'd run a humidity test on the bathroom and determined that he had showered that morning. That's not a real thing. Oh, it's very – They're just fucking lying to him. It's very real. Is he going to ask if he gets to go to WrestleMania next?

I shouldn't laugh at that. But, you know. Yeah. Marty kept denying it. He hadn't attacked his parents. This wasn't a Brandy case. But finally, Detective James McPherson— Turns out it was a Christian case all along!

How dare you! Load me into a false sense of security. I'm just going to sit here and hear a nice little story about a family annihilator. And now it's turning into police corruption and a coerced confession. No, they did a humidity test. No, that doesn't fucking exist. But Marty doesn't know that he's 17. Fun fact, Marty had been brought up to trust the police.

Of course he had because he's a rich white kid. Yeah. And a lot of people, I think people are more savvy about this now, but a lot of people didn't know that police can lie to you. Yeah. In these interrogation settings, they can just make shit up like a humidity test. Like they had a humidity test or like they tested hairs and they were 100 percent his, no doubt about it. Because they got one of them super fast hair testing machines. I don't know why they buy the super slow ones when the super fast ones are just right there available.

Oh, my gosh. So, you know, he's just denying it, denying it, denying it. Full of shit, am I right? No. Family Annihilator, am I right? No. Anyway, Detective James McCready got up. He left the interrogation room, but he stayed within earshot.

And, oh, my, he received a phone call. It was from the hospital. An officer at the hospital said that Seymour had come out of his coma. It was a miracle. And get a load of this. When Seymour came out of his coma, do you know what he said? Feed me. Stop it.

No, he didn't come out of a coma. He didn't say, my son, Martin, Marty Tankleff killed me. No, he didn't. None of this happened. They're lying to him. It's all very real. Seymour came out of that coma and he said, Marty, you did it. No, he didn't. The detective sauntered back into the interrogation room and broke the news.

Your dad's awake. He says you did it. And Marty was like, what? He was so confused. What the hell was going on? His dad wasn't a liar. He didn't lie about anything. So if his dad was saying that he'd done this, and if the police were saying he'd done this.

Maybe he'd actually done it. No. This sucks. They're going to make him believe he murdered his parents. He wondered if maybe he'd blacked out and killed his mother and attacked his father. This is terrible.

You look so mad at me. This is terrible. Oh, I was going to tell you about family annihilator. You know what? I hate family annihilator cases. I think they're terrible. You've subjected me to many family annihilator case. And I was like, you know what?

You know what? I'm going to mess with her. Fuck. At this point, the detectives read Marty his Miranda rights. After that, Detective James McCreary wrote down everything that Marty said. Marty said that he'd stabbed his parents with a watermelon knife. What the fuck's that? A knife that you use to cut watermelons.

Is that a specific type of knife? Or was he like, you know, some families have, you know, specific, like, this is what I'm asking. He'd go to a store and buy a watermelon knife. Or did this particular family just have a knife that they dubbed the watermelon knife because they used it always to cut watermelon with? You know, I don't know. Okay. But, yeah, I don't know.

All right. Thank you for your help on this matter. So that's what he said. He'd used a watermelon knife and he'd beaten his mom with a dumbbell. Okay. Why had he committed this awful crime? Well, it was simple. The night before, his dad hosted a few friends for their weekly poker game.

It was a very exclusive thing. They called it the After Dinner Club. A bunch of prominent dudes were there, including the mayor and the bagel king of Long Island. And Marty was supposed to have set up the card table for the poker game. He forgot. He forgot. And you know what? His parents got mad at him.

And this enraged Marty. How dare they get mad at him about that stupid card table. And so he decided to kill them. That's stupid. It's a motive for a double murder. No. So real. No.

He told the detectives, I decided to kill my mother first. I ran across the bed. I got to her quick. She fought me. So detailed. This written confession actually ends mid-sentence. Because in the middle of this confession, Marty's lawyer found out that he was being interrogated. And he called the station and was like, back the fuck up off my client.

So the statement ends, I cut at her throat and neck. I left to dot, dot, dot. So the interrogation stopped. The detectives tried to get Marty to sign the confession, but he refused. He almost immediately recanted this. But it was too late.

They had him. He'd confessed. Marty was charged with murdering his mother and attempting to murder his father. He attended his mother's funeral in handcuffs. Wow. But Marty claimed he was innocent. He would never have done this. He maintained that the real killer was probably the Bagel King of Long Island.

Yeah, and the Bagel King was there the previous night. So it's very possible. He was the last one to leave the party. Well, for fuck's sake. He's probably got blood all over his capizios. And that won't wash out. No. Capizio is famously difficult to clean.

Really? No, I just made that up right now. So, you know, he said the thing about Jerry owed Seymour 500K. He wasn't paying it back. And that was true. Seymour had invested in Jerry's business. He had loaned him 500K at an interest rate of like 35%. Holy – that's worse than a credit card.

Oh, it's nuts. Cocoa nuts. Well, here's the thing. Jerry had a gambling problem. I think maybe he had a tough time getting loans, and so this was what he did. Yeah, one of the worst terms ever. Also, you have to give me bagels. Sorry.

Blueberry bagels for you? Is that what you would do? I do love a blueberry bagel. What kind of schmear you like on a bagel? I like a whipped. You're all about the textures. Yeah, I like it whipped. Whip it all night.

I like a fruity one. So either, okay, at Einstein Brothers Bagels, I actually prefer the honey almond. But I like a good strawberry whipped cream cheese as well. On the blueberry? Oh, yeah. Fuck yeah. I knew. Yeah, blueberry? Oh, yeah. Fuck yeah. I knew. Yeah, blueberry and strawberry, delicious together.

There you go. We don't mean to tell you how to. You know what I don't like? What? Smoked salmon. Savory bagel. I love a savory bagel. Fuck off, savory bagel.

No, I don't. You ever had an everything bagel? Fuck right off, everything bagel. No, fuck right off everything bagel. I'm the least bit interested in you. All right. Well, this is terribly disappointing and upsetting. You ever had one of those cinnamon crunch bagels from Panera? See, I'm not as into the sweet bagels.

Okay. Well, have you ever had one? I don't think I have. Maybe I have. It's got like a crispy cinnamon sugar coating on the outside of it. I mean, that does sound good. Yeah, it's fucking delicious. But you know what the problem with Panera is?

Tastes like hospital food? No, they only have plain cream cheese there. Yeah, why don't they mix it up? I don't know. That'd be so easy. Yeah. Yeah. Panera, I know you're listening.

The CEO of Panera, famously huge fan of the podcast. Did you see someone in the Discord was teasing us because we made fun of Panera's first date? I mean, if you go to Padera on a first date, God bless. Yeah. We used to go to Padera at the mall all the time because it made us feel like we were fancy. Sophisticated ladies. Yeah. And we were. Yeah. Okay.

Anyway. So, they had this loan and Jerry wasn't paying it back. And the loan was, according to The New York Times, secured by shares in Jerry's bagel stores and several racehorses. So Jerry stood to lose quite a bit. Yeah. And apparently two weeks before the attacks, Seymour went to the bagel store and confronted Jerry about the money he owed him. And Jerry grabbed him, pulled him across the counter and said, I'll cut your throat.

That's. But hey, hey, no, don't give me that face. No. So Jerry Steuerman couldn't possibly be the person behind these attacks. Mom. It was definitely Martyy i don't hey by the way i'm going to tell you what jerry was doing in the aftermath of the attack on arlene and seymour and i don't want you to make too much of it okay i don't want you to overreact

what was he up to well you see he was the last one to leave the home that night. Yeah. And shortly afterward, he withdrew 15 grand from a joint bank account that he shared with Seymour Tankleff. And then he faked his own death. What? He left a note for his children and girlfriend on how they could collect his life insurance policy. OK. So he for sure –

No. Did this. No. Then he fled to California where he got a new hairpiece and shaved his beard and got contact lenses. Was it straight this time? Okay, here's the thing. I think the new hairpiece looked a lot like the old hairpiece. Maybe just a tad different? Yeah, I think – new hairpiece looked a lot like the old hairpiece. Maybe just a tad different.

Yeah, I think. Just a hair. I think he liked the look. Yeah. And was not willing to sacrifice it. It'd be like if you went on the run. Yeah. This is the longest my hair's ever been.

You're losing your mind if you think I'm cutting it off. If anything, you'd get extensions to have even longer hair. People would be like, oh, what's that? Oh, it's just a mermaid. I'm cutting it off. If anything, you'd get extensions to have even longer hair. People would be like, oh, what's that? Oh, it's just a mermaid. That's exactly what they'd say. It is. And then they'd be like, is that mermaid ordering dominoes? Oh, this is how we catch her.

Oh, this is how we get her. So we take her down. Jerry also got a new name. What, Gerald? Jay Winston. Oh, that's not enough of a change, my dude. Jerry Steuerman to Jay Winston, that's a good change. All right.

Used to be a shithouse. How different do you want it to be? I mean, change up all the letters. This isn't Wordle. What are you talking about? What's J for? Are we talking the letter J or the J-A-Y? No, J-A-Y.

Okay. All right. Well, that's probably smart because then, you know, if somebody says his name, he'll respond. If he changed it to Peter, people would be yelling Peter at him all the time and he wouldn't even blink an eye. Right. But you start with that first letter and wow, that does it. Yeah. That's exactly what I think.

Thank you. By the way, this was an alias that Jerry used quite a bit. Well, then that's stupid. He had a lot of aliases. What other ones? Don't worry about it. There's nothing fishy about having a lot of aliases. There certainly is.

Like five. Yeah, there's certainly something fishy about that. How many aliases do you have? Don't worry about it. I'm Christina Potts. I'm Christina Potts. And when I go on the run, I get just a trim. And then I'm disguised.

You know how I'm going to disguise myself? How? I'll wear glasses. Oh, my God. But those big Groucho Marx ones. Just blend right in I could tell you right now you would not do the things one needs to do no

you're absolutely right disgusting we could never commit a crime together I'd be like David Gann you'd have to be the one who does the thing yeah and then i'm like okay brady you gotta fuck off somewhere all right i'm gonna send my good friend to you definitely not a hit man so about a month after the attacks seymour tankff died. He'd never come out of the coma. So, yeah, he didn't have the moment where he said, Marty, you did this.

No, Marty, you did it. So Marty was now charged with the murder of his mother and the murder of his father. Okay. Did they know that Bagel Man had? Oh, yeah. Yeah, they knew he disappeared. Why? Does that worry you? Yeah yeah didn't worry the detective obviously because they've already pinned this on marty at this point everyone knew that jerry stewartman was missing and that was weird

according to you and me and like everybody but it doesn't have a thing to do with this detectives tracked jerry down in california okay and brought him back to long island not because they thought he might be involved in the crime but because they wanted him to testify for the prosecution at marty's upcoming double murder trial so the actual murderer is going to testify against the person that they've pinned the crime on. Great. Okay. Just making sure we're all clear what's happening there.

Brandy, some people aren't as trusting as the Suffolk County police detectives. And those haters thought it was weird that Jerry had faked his own death and gone to the opposite side of the country so quickly after these attacks. So when he was interviewed by the media, Jerry did feel the need to explain himself. He said, I couldn't take it anymore. I had too many other, too many problems. It just got too much for me. So I staged my death. To Detective James McCreary, this made perfect sense.

Jerry had a lot going on and he couldn't handle the pressure of being accused of something he didn't do. So, you know, he faked his own death, altered his appearance, fled to California under an assumed name. Happens to the best of us. We've all been there. No. Yes. Absolutely not. Obviously, Marty had done this.

He'd done it out of greed. He wanted his inheritance early. Except, the way the wills were written, Marty actually wouldn't get any money until he was like 25. Yeah. So, you know, this was kind of a long con thing where, you know, you kill your parents when you're 17 and then you just like wait. Eight years. Yeah.

Uh-huh. You know, it's one of those. Yeah, because that's the thing that happens. By this point, with the exception of Marty's half-sister, Sherry, everyone in Marty's extended family believed that he was innocent. There was no way he would have killed

his parents. He was a good kid. He didn't have any history of violence. He had no motive. But that confession looked really bad. His sister,

his half-sister didn't believe he was innocent. Yep. She believed he did it. Mm-hmm. Oh, no. She claimed that – so, OK.

So he went to stay with her I think after he bailed out and she and her husband sat him down. They were like, hey, we support you no matter what. Even if you did this, we support you. And she claims that he said, OK, thank you. And so that means he did it? He was not emotional. There's lots of reasons that people might not be emotional. Mm-hmm.

Hmm. I mean, yeah, I think that I might be suspicious if that was the reaction as well. But yeah, there's lots of explanations for a reaction like that that don't include I murdered our parents. Right. OK, great. And should she take into account how this other guy was the last person at the house and also faked his own death and ran off to California? You know, I'm sure she took it into account, but she seems to have sided with the detectives on this one. OK, great. OK, so cool.

How long is Marty going to prison for before they? You look so upset. You look so upset. Robert Gottlieb was Marty's defense attorney, and for more than a year leading up to the trial, he tried to get the confession thrown out. The confession hadn't been videotaped. It hadn't been recorded in any way. All they had was an unsigned statement that had been written by a detective. The defense argued that Marty should have been Mirandized as soon as he'd entered the police station.

But on May 8th, 1989, Suffolk County Judge Alfred Tisch, who had the most impressive comb-over you've ever seen, was like, No, they read Marty his Miranda rights before he made the confession so it can be used at trial. Robert knew how bad this was for his case. What? I mean, it's not even a full confession. It's not signed or anything. It shouldn't be admissible. Yeah, probably not.

His lawyer wasn't present. His lawyer wasn't alerted that this was going on. Inadmissible. Too late. 17. Yeah. He's a minor. No adult was present.

Because he killed them all. Inadmissible. Yeah. Great. So he's going to let that just go in. So they're going to convict him and the bagel king is going to testify too. So that's cool. Okay. How – okay. This is a serious question about you.

How do you enjoy family annihilator cases but you don't enjoy this? This is not a family annihilator case. Yeah, but why do you enjoy those cases? I don't know. I think this is – what? I don't know. I think this is – What? What? I don't know.

I hit my head real hard when I was a kid or something. No, I think there's something fascinating about someone who doesn't feel a connection to their family in the sense that they can then murder them. What if their family doesn't let them go on the boat as much as they want to? That's – I mean does that explain it? No. What if they make you drive a stupid old car?

No. Oh, OK. I mean I feel sad if like one of my family members is just like a little bit upset with me. I'm like that is really upsetting to me. That really bothers me. So I can't imagine. Like that's – I think that's what I like so much or that's what I find so fascinating is like that's such the opposite. That someone can be so disconnected from their family that they can murder them.

that they can murder them. Mm-hmm. Just gives me the creeps. Well, yeah. I don't think it's not creepy. Yeah, but I'm not titillated the way you are. I'm like just creeped. Yeah.

Just creeped down. I'm creeped and titillated. Yeah. Yeah. Your nips are hard and your ears are erect. That's correct. Erect. The prosecution's case wasn't particularly strong.

I really took my time with that word. Pronounced every syllable to the fullest extent. But at this point in time, no one understood how common false confessions are. Yeah, it's 1989 by this point, right? Yeah, it would be very difficult to convince a jury that someone would admit to killing their parents when they really hadn't. It drives me crazy because looking at old interview footage, the detectives are like, you know, come on. Could I convince you that you had killed your parents if you hadn't? And of course the answer is like, no. You could never.

But it fucking happens. It fucking happens. I'm thinking it happened to Marty here. And so in April of 1990, Marty Tankleiff's trial kicked off. Prosecutor John Collins presented the jury with Marty's motive. Marty had a long, simmering anger toward his parents, thanks in part because his parents made him drive that stupid old Lincoln town car. Also, he wanted to use the family boat a lot, but they only let him use it sometimes. The prosecution called up a bunch of Marty's classmates from school, and yes, some of them did have those bangs that flip both ways.

Oh, yeah. I hate those. One friend testified that Marty told her, if my parents were killed, I could have any car I want. Another friend testified that Marty told her that once he inherited the money, he'd be able to take a bunch of them out in limousines. A mechanic took the stand to say that he had overheard Marty complain to his dad that he, quote, didn't want to drive that piece of shit to school. Okay. This motive is terrible. That's not a strong motive at all.

Yeah, I agree. But it doesn't matter. You don't have to prove motive, so. The prosecution brought in expert witnesses who talked about the physical evidence at the scene. The technician testified that the blood on the light switch in Marty's room was the same type as Arlene's. The technician also talked about a tissue that was found in Marty's pocket. It had a drop of blood on it. And it was the same type as Arlene's.

Does he have the same blood type as Arlene? I don't know. I would love to know that. Yeah. Maybe he had a bloody nose. And so he fucking wiped it with a Kleenex. And, like, before he realized he had it, he got a little blood on his light switch. What if it's completely fucking unrelated?

You are shaking this whole table. I'm sorry. I'm very fired up. Maybe it's completely unrelated to the brutal murders that took place. Here's the other thing that I didn't include in this script but I think is very interesting. You know, they claim, oh, he took a shower. He scrubbed the murder weapons, you know, got all the blood off of himself. And I mean they went over that bathroom with a fine-tooth comb.

They took out the pee trap. Yeah. Never found any blood. No. Yeah, so it didn't fucking happen that way. This kid did not murder his parents. You think he's a mastermind at 17 that he's pulling off the perfect murder with leaving no cleaning up perfectly, leaving no evidence to be found? That's the thing.

It's like it's not the perfect murder because they're in the house together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Three people are there. Two are dead. He's the alive one. Right. So it's like in that sense, it's not the perfect crime. But he's somehow amazing at cleaning up afterward.

But then going and getting himself a little bloody. No. Two weeks into the trial, the prosecution called the bagel king to the stand they asked jerry to explain why he'd faked his own death a week after the attack and jerry got up there and explained that he'd been going through a tough time his wife had died about a year before the attacks and one of his children was in bad legal trouble. What kind of legal trouble? Well, seems he had a bit of a side hustle.

He was bivocational, if you will, selling bagels but also selling cocaine out of the bagel store. Oh, out of the bagel store. And apparently he told an undercover cop, hey, you know, just come here, get cocaine whenever you want. My dad owns the bagel store. It's cool. Did you hear about that cop just recently that got caught selling drugs to a DA agent while he was on duty? Oh, shit. Out of his cop car.

Well, that's just dumb. Yeah. Out of his cop car? Out of his cop car. Out of his cop car. Man, that's too bold. Anyway, so that had happened and the cash flow in Jerry's business was not what it used to be. And on top of all that, Arlene and Seymour were murdered. And he was being accused by their son? Jerry told the jury,

it got to me. I thought everybody would be better off without me. That's all. Okay. But then defense attorney Robert Gottlieb cross-examined Jerry. Oh, how'd it go? Jerry did not enjoy this. His eyebrows went up to his fake hairline. He raised his voice. He made wild hand gestures.

Here's how it went. All right, that's enough. And Marty Tankleff sitting over there is accused of this, and I am not. And I'm sitting here for three days, bearing my to the world and it's not fair and nobody, nobody cares. Defense. Mr. Steuerman. The only mistake I made in my lifetime. Defense. Mr. Steuerman. The only mistake is I lived on. Mr. Steuerman, the only mistake is I lived on defense. Your Honor, can we have a direction to allow this witness? I was a poor man living like a millionaire.

Oh, my God. Jerry was a little fired up. Yeah, Jerry seems to be overcompensating for the fact that he murdered two people. His only crime, Brandi. His only crime is being a poor man living like a millionaire. Yeah, you got to sound like a mix of Peter from Family Guy. Who wants to be a millionaire. I don't do a good New York accent. I thought it was excellent.

Well, thank you, my dear. When it was time for the defense to take over, their first witness was psychiatrist Herbert Spiegel, who testified that he examined Marty shortly after the confession. And he said that it was very clear to him that Marty was confused. He was in a traumatic state and was willing to say anything to get him out of the mess that he was in. The defense also attacked the parts of the confession that didn't match the evidence.

So in the confession, Marty said he'd used the watermelon knife, and he said that a watermelon knife is something that you can buy. It's like a specific thing. Oh, wow'd used a watermelon knife and barbell to attack his parents but when those two items were examined they'd found no blood and no tissue on them it's not true also in the confession marty said he attacked his mom first. But according to the blood evidence, Seymour was attacked first. Then the defense called a bunch of Marty's former classmates, who all said the opposite of what the prosecution's witness had said. Witnesses said, said, of what the pro-

Are you short-circuiting? People, people. Are you short-circuiting? I used all my energy on that New York accent. Those aren't actual words coming out of your mouth. Let's try it again. Then, I'm going to go slow. Then, the defense, you know what they did? They called a bunch of Marty's former classmates who all said the opposite of what the prosecution's witnesses had said. Oh, okay.

That's a complicated sentence. I think we can all agree it would trip anyone up. Oh, it just spat everywhere. Oh, no. Mess. One friend said that Marty never complained about his parents, never complained about his car, never complained about the boat. And on June 7th, Marty took the stand in his own defense. It's a bold move, Marty.

He was interviewed about this later and he said that he feels like a lot of innocent people do this because they feel like they have nothing to hide. Yeah. I could absolutely see that. Yeah. And it's like, sure, just let me get up in front of the jury. I'll tell my story. Yeah. If the jury can hear it from me.

Yeah. Yeah. They'll know I'm telling the truth. Yeah. Ask me anything. Yeah. Yikes. He told the jury about his reaction when the detective told him that his father said he did this. And Marty said, I started believing them.

He said, my father never lied to me. They had me believing that I did it. During cross-examination, the prosecution asked Marty, you did tell detectives Ryan and McCready that you did kill your mother and hurt your father by saying, yeah, I did it. Is that correct? And Marty said, that's correct. He was very unemotional on the stand. In fact, he was unemotional for most of this trial. It could have been that he was numb or in shock.

Maybe he just wasn't a very emotional person, none of which is a crime, but it looked bad. This trial went on for 13 weeks. The jury deliberated for six days. And on June 28th, they reached a decision. They found Marty Tankleff guilty of the murders of Arlene and Seymour Tankleff. As the verdicts were read aloud, Marty's family members burst out screaming. Only his half-sister, Sherry, was relieved by the verdict. Marty was sentenced to 50 years to life.

And even though the Wills had left everything to Marty, he obviously couldn't collect on that. I mean, he'd killed his parents. So most of the money went to Sherry. It was good for her. At some point after this, Sherry's husband went into business with Detective James McCready. They opened a restaurant together. Seriously? Yeah, and they used Sherry's inheritance to fund the business.

Great. She knows this looks bad. She was not involved, though. Yeah, just her husband. And her money. Yeah. They later divorced. Okay, great. though. Yeah, just her husband. And her money. Yeah. They later divorced. She did this,

their marriage was on the rocks, so you know how when your marriage is on the rocks, you give your husband a bunch of money to open a bar with the detective who put your brother away for the murder of your dad? The detective who coerced his confession? No, no, no, no.

Who courageously got the confession against the odds and the other evidence. Yeah. Marty appealed his sentence, and as it often is, this appeals process was long, hellish, and kind of boring. So I'm just going to press fast. And, you know, there are details that are going to be left in the wind. Eliot Spitzer makes an appearance. Andrew Cuomo. I'm just leaving some details out.

Are there just dongs everywhere? Unfortunately, I'm afraid so. Mr. Spitzer's toys. Yeah. Spitzer's toys. The bottom line is that over the next 10 years, Marty lost every single one of his state appeals and blew through whatever money he had. I assume the rest of his family was, you know, trying to fund these appeals. Fund his appeals process, yeah.

So at that point, he reached out to a lawyer named Barry Polick. And Barry looked at the case and Barry agreed to work on Marty's federal appeals pro bono. He did this because a lot of stuff about Marty's trial seemed fucked up. First off, here's a fun fact. When Marty was interrogated, the Suffolk County Homicide Squad had been under investigation for their interrogation techniques. Weird. Yeah, it turns out like— 95% success rate there. It seems like that's almost

like fishy. Seems like they're like, you know what? We don't know whether we should give you a trophy or say, hey, quit locking up innocent people. Yeah. But in a case that hinged almost entirely on a controversial confession, that fact had been deemed inadmissible. They couldn't talk about the fact that this squad was under investigation. Ridiculous. Barry also discovered that Detective James McCready had been accused of perjury in a previous murder trial. Excellent. Wonderful. I called it a birder trial. Birder trial.

It's when you murder birds and it's no laughing matter. It's when you murder birds and it's no laughing matter. So Barry was like, wow, this case is even sketchier than a sketchbook. So at this point, they engaged the services of private investigator and retired NYPD detective Jay Salpeter. Sal-Peter. Who knows? Brandy, I will appreciate it if you will laugh when I say hilarious things like sketchier than a sketchbook. I almost

said sketchier than a sketchbook in an art class, but I saw the look on your face and I determined that you were not up for it. Yeah. Okay. Jay got to work right away.

He went down the street and said, hey, I'll have this solved any day. Marty, you'll be on your way. One of the first things that Jay did after he came up with that sick rhyme was he reviewed the case file. And then he launched his rap career. And it failed. So he went back to being a private investigator. And then he launched his rap career. And it failed. So he went back to being a private investigator. And thank goodness he did, right? Yeah.

Because even though that rhyme was great. Yeah. Never heard anything like that. Sick beats. Yeah. When he reviewed the case file, he discovered that after Marty was convicted in 1990, a woman named Carlene Kovacs came forward with information. Information that the police did not follow up on.

What do we got? Does it involve the bagel king of Long Island and his bloodstained capizios? I'm sorry. I shouldn't laugh at bloodstained capizios. I'm sorry. I shouldn't laugh at bloodstained capizios. But in my mind, capizios are dance shoes. So I'm just picturing someone dancing away and then committing murder. She said that in 1991, a man named Joseph Creeden, a.k.a. Joey Guns. Oh.

That's his nickname. Wow. Pretty cool, right? Yeah. As cool as that rap I made up. Almost. My favorite thing about that part was you were looking down for most of it, like reading something. And I was like, oh, here it goes.

At some point, she's going to catch on that this is the worst thing that's ever been said. I'm single handedly taking this podcast down. With the help of Joey Guns. Yeah. Joey Guns told her that he had been involved in the murders of Arlene and Seymour Tankleff. Joey Guns told her that he had been involved in the murders of Arlene and Seymour Tankleff. So Investigator Jay started looking into Joseph Creeden and discovered that he was long-term friends with a guy by the name of Glenn Harris. At this point, Glenn Harris was in prison and he'd spent a lot of time talking to the

prison's priest, Father Ronald Lehmert. And he told Father Ron that he'd been involved in the murders of Arlene and Seymour Tankleff. He said he felt terrible because he knew the couple's son was in prison for a crime he didn't commit. It took a while, but the priest eventually convinced Glenn to come clean to the authorities. Here's what Glenn told private investigator Jay. He said that on the night of the murders, he drove Joe Creeden and another guy named Peter Kent to the Tancloff home a little after midnight. He waited outside in his car. Glenn says he thought this was just going to be a burglary,

but when Peter and Joe came out of the house, they were covered in blood. And afterward, Joe went to get rid of a pipe he'd used in the murders. So he threw it out in the woods. So private investigator Jay was like, boom, crack the case, all right. He went and talked to the Suffolk County DA, but they were like, mm. That case is closed. It's solved.

It's going to make us look really bad. Yeah, we've already solved that case once. Also, Mr. Harris has a history of drug abuse and he has mental problems. He has no credibility. Jay was annoyed. So he worked this case even harder. It had been more than 12 years since they'd thrown that pipe in the woods. But Jay was like, I wonder if it's still there.

Was it? He got a metal detector and went out to the area where Glenn said they'd thrown the pipe. Did he find it? He found it! Shut the fuck up. Except did he? Because it'd been out in the woods for like a million years. So it was all rusted.

Yeah, it couldn't be linked forensically with the crime. But I mean, it was a pipe. Gold stars all around. For the justice system, this pipe was a nothing burger, which is a rude thing to say about a man's pipe. But when you coupled it with some of the other details of this case, it was definitely enough to get the media interested. So the media took a renewed interest in Marty's case. Interest, interest, interest. I hate it when I repeat words. And yet here I've done it. Yes. My rap career is going nowhere. And because of that, witnesses started coming forward.

One witness said that a few weeks before the murders, Jerry had tried to get him to kill Seymour, but he'd refused. Wow. Yeah, so the idea is Jerry was the last one to leave the party. He signaled for, yeah. Yeah. You smell what I'm stepping in. Another man, Neil Fisher, said that he overheard Jerry saying that he had killed two people. He'd been bragging about it in the bagel store.

Neil Fisher? Yeah. He a close personal friend of yours? He's one of the hosts of Triviality, my favorite trivia podcast. I doubt it's the same Neil Fisher because he's our age. He's a time traveler, and that's why he's so good at trivia he's seen it all pretty soon there were like a dozen new witnesses who all had a little something indicating that this had been a murder for hire plot organized by jerry stewerman yeah but it still wasn't enough for the stuff

he may not have had blood on his capizios but he sure had blood on his hands. Oh, my God. Brandi, are you going to leave us for Dateline? Oh, that was beautiful. Mm-mm, mm-mm, mm-mm. Well said. I'm ready for a commercial break. Coming up next,

I'm Lester Holt. Yes. Obviously. Obviously. Obviously. You look just like him. I like to think it's my dignified manner. And your chest hair. You don't know that he has chest hair.

How dare you? You've never seen Lester's bare chest. Maybe I have. You would have bragged to me already. Anyway. No, you have a strand of hair hanging perfectly down your chest. Between my titties. Didn't mean to distract you.

Like I distracted my husband at lunch. Legit. Everyone. Norm looked over at Kristen and full on checked out her boobs at the lunch table. Hi, mom and dad. Were you like even subtle about it. Were you like, wow, I'm in the presence of true love here? True love, that's right.

Yeah. True love is appreciating someone's titties. After many years together. So, you know, the Suffolk County DA is like, man, this still isn't enough. And that was understandable because this whole thing made them look bad. And also there were conflicts of interest flying out both ends like snarts. First off, Detective James McCready had said on the stand that he didn't personally know the Bagel King. But he did.

He did. They'd had a business relationship prior to the murders. Well, for fuck's sake. Perjury, perjury, perjury. If you say it three times. Beetlejuice appears. Beetlejuice appears. Yeah, so it turns out James McCready had a side gig as a building contractor.

What point was I trying to make by saying Bertrand three times? I think sometimes, like, in these cases where the wrong thing's happening, you like to shout out the right thing. Like, all of a sudden, there will be some weird time warp thing where, beep-boop, beep-boop. Oh, no, this couldn't happen because brandy from you know many years from now is correcting the record finally on in the summer of 2004 which is what i've got in my notes here and i don't stray from the notes okay um judge stephen braslow agreed to go over the new evidence. The hearing kicked off and right off the bat it sucked ass for the defense. Glenn Harris had given a sworn statement that he'd been the getaway driver.

But now he didn't want to talk about it. Great. Another witness named Brian Glass had said that he could link Jerry to the crime. But on the stand he did not. Great. The defense's case was falling apart, and they thought it was fishy, like Brandy's vagina. How rude. And they were right.

Yeah, somebody was behind this. Because her vagina is weird. No! They later found out that the DA's office had threatened Brian Glass with life imprisonment. Life imprisonment. Did I put some MMMMMs in there? Yeah. I put an MMM in there. It sounded like a prism was also involved.

Yeah, okay. I was about to say it was the 80s, but it's not the 80s anymore. No. I feel like the 80s were a real prism-y time. Yeah, I think so. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Anyway, so he was threatened with the prism for a pending robbery.

And after he did not implicate Jerry, he got a deal and was let out of jail. Cool. Yeah. That's great. So the defense was screwed. The hearing did not go in their favor. But over time, people kept talking about this case. Meanwhile, fucking Marty's just rotting away in prison.

He's 30 now. Yeah. So, I mean, he I think he went away when he was like 18. Yeah. And now he's into his 30s. Wow. Like arguably the most formative years of your adult life certainly. Absolutely.

Finally, the defense got to the point that it had more than 20 witnesses who implicated Jerry Steuerman in Arlene and Seymour's murders. The defense also found a new piece of evidence. They discovered a bloody imprint on a sheet in the Tancloff's primary bedroom. It was the imprint of a knife, and it didn't match any other knife that had been found in the home. Didn't match the watermelon knife? Fuck no. Because you know what?

That watermelon knife was for cutting watermelons. It didn't do anything else in its life. Yeah. So the defense petitioned for a new trial in 2006, and they lost again. Jesus. And in the meantime, the bagel king of Long Island was doing great. Ever since Marty had gone to prison, Jerry had done a ton of franchise business with the bagel shop. He got a franchise open in Kennedy International Airport and at rest stops along the New Jersey and Florida turnpikes.

This is a big thing. Yeah. He really is the bagel king. Yeah. I mean, people are going to listen to this and be like, oh, shit. I used to eat at the bagel king. That's where I eat my bagels. Sometimes I put the strawberry cream cheese on the blueberry bagel do you get your bagel scooped or do you leave it in

okay it depends so if i'm doing savory in like a sandwichy situation yeah i like the scoop because i'm not huge on the bread. I just like the crispiness. But if it's a sweet bagel, you know. You leave it in. What about you? Yeah, I leave it in because I don't fuck with savory bagels. You're a wise woman. The hole's too small.

Anyway, he and his wife Sharon moved into a condo in Boca Raton, Florida. And it was very rude that people seemed to think he'd been involved with the murders, but they were probably just jealous of his toupee. Meanwhile, Marty did his best to survive life in prison. I'm sorry, I didn't really give a good pause there. I probably should have paused. He said that he did okay in there, partly partly because and I thought this was very interesting. He said that career criminals tend to be pretty good judges of character. And so there were a lot of people in there who knew that he hadn't done what he was accused

of doing and tended to look out for him by telling him, hey, don't do drugs. Don't get in fights. Keep your head down. See if you can get a job in the library. Wow. Did he get a job in the library? I think so. And one other place.

And I can't remember the other place. So that's what Marty did. You think they've got McDonald's in prisons, Brandy? No. No. Mm-mm. You think they've got McDonald's in prisons, Brandy? No. So that's what Marty did. He did his best to reside in prison but not live in prison. Yeah.

Meanwhile, Marty's case got more and more traction. It was getting to the point that it was, like, embarrassing to keep him in prison because now celebrities knew about it. You know, kind of a West Memphis Three situation. So finally, on December 18th, 2007, the appellate division of the New York Supreme Court unanimously overturned Marty's convictions. They ruled that if the jury heard all the new evidence, they probably would acquit him. Yeah. Fuck yes, they would. Yes, they absolutely would.

And so about a week later, Marty Tankloff was released from prison. He'd been locked up for 17 and a half years. Yeah, where'd he go? You ready for his life afterward? Yeah. Okay, so the following summer, all the charges against him were dismissed. And the year after that, Marty filed a federal civil wrongful conviction suit against the state of New York and the Suffolk County Police Department. Can you keep your pants on?

They're off. They're fully off. Dust in the wind. Yes. Those pants. Yeah. In 2014, the state of New York settled with Marty for $3.375 million. Not enough. And in 2018, Suffolk County settled with Marty for $3.375 million. Not enough.

And in 2018, Suffolk County settled with him for $10 million. Better. These days, Marty appears to be doing really well. He graduated law school in 2014. Shut the fuck up. And is currently a lawyer in New York. He's an adjunct professor at Georgetown and Turow Law School. And he's an advocate for the professor at Georgetown and Turow Law School, and he's an

advocate for the wrongfully convicted. He talks about his experiences pretty regularly. He was on an episode of the Wrongful Conviction podcast, and I'm sorry I didn't shout them out at the beginning, but would have given the whole thing away. By the way, that episode of American Justice was not called Bad Seed. I made that title up. I also made up the title of the other one. not called Bad Seed. I made that title up. I also made up the title of the other one. Anyway, he shared some of his theories about his parents' murders.

He said he thinks that his dad found out that the bagel business was really just a money laundering front for drugs, and that just did not fly with him. He was not that type of guy. And perhaps that's what led to these murders. And on the episode of The Real Story with Maria Elena Salinas,

Marty talked about his half-sister Sherry and said that, you know, he wouldn't go as far as to say she was involved with the crime, but she definitely benefited financially from him going to prison. And that's the story of a family annihilator. Wow. Yeah. So she may not have been involved, but she didn't fight for justice. Yeah. OK.

Let me let me give this shout out. So that episode of The Real Story is called Confessions of an Innocent Man. The episode of American Justice, wrongfully convicted Marty Tankleff finally freed. So that kind of gives the whole thing away. So, yeah, I mean, it was really interesting. I went on a journey with Sherry. Because at first I was like, well, you know, it must be it must be the most awful thing

in the world that your dad and stepmom are murdered and then your brother is accused. Yeah. And then you get to the point where you are convinced by the powers that be that he did this. Yeah. And maybe you get to the point where like the only thing worse than that is then years later admitting, oh my gosh, I was wrong and I didn't support my brother who was going through something even more horrible than I could have imagined.

So that's kind of how I was feeling told about her father came over the day before the murders and said, oh, I'm so upset with Marty. I'm changing the contents of my will. I don't know, man. I don't know if that happened. Yeah. That's pretty convenient. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. That's pretty convenient. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those stories that I didn't see until later. I feel like that's the kind of story that would pop up earlier. Yeah. In news coverage.

Right. It's possible I didn't see it, but I feel like that would be a pretty key part of the prosecution's case. Absolutely. Wow. I'm so happy that Marty has made so much of his life after that. Yeah. Oh, it's so disturbing though. Yeah.

To be that clearly innocent. I mean clearly innocent. though. Yeah. To be that clearly innocent. I mean clearly innocent. Yeah. Yeah. And lose appeal after appeal after appeal. It's mind boggling. What are you making that face for? Because they don't care if you're innocent.

Of course they don't. They don't want to let you out just because you're innocent. There has to be a trial error. No. Because there were errors. Yeah. So it's not that either. Yeah. No, haven't they fucking admit they're wrong?

Yeah. Yeah. Because they weren't just wrong. They were malicious. Yeah. They pinned this on him. They weren't just like, oh, this is probably our guy. Let's make it really look like it's our guy. Like, no.

They bent the evidence to make it look like him. It didn't even look that good. No. It was really wild. So Detective McCreary, I think he died in 2015. Interviews with him are just wild. I mean, I have never put an innocent person away. Oh, yeah?

I mean, wow. Okay. Okay, buddy. Sure thing. That was great. That was very, very good. Oh, just knocked the whole table. The whole table.

It's not like we have a candle burning right there and we should worry about setting the table on fire. Do you think it would catch? Respect the wood, Kristen. It wouldn't catch that fast. I can't restart my phone now. We've got to go to the Discord. Do it after 2 a.m. Brandi, how do they get into the Discord?

To get into the Discord, all you have to do is join our Patreon at the $5 level or higher. That gets you in this Discord where you can chitty chat the day away with other lovers of this very podcast. And then on recording days, we ask for questions. Ooh. Brandy tries her best to understand. Wants to know, Brandy, do you approve of Travis Barker's fiance? Or should I say, lover? Oh, goodness.

I don't think it's that surprising of a choice. They've also been like neighbors for years and all of that. Yeah. It's just a matter of time. You're going to bang your neighbor. That's right. That's exactly right. That nice old lady that lives next door to me, watch out.

right. That nice old lady that lives next door to me, watch out. A cool boat wants to know, Kristen, did you watch the newest Survivor season? I miss when you would talk about binging it. Did you get sick of it? I'm glad someone enjoyed my talk about Survivor. Yeah, I watched the latest season of Survivor. I thought it had too many twists. Oh! Yeah, I kind of want to see the game play out a little more yeah um they did some stuff to switch up the regular gameplay and they gave a little some switcheroos and that's all i'll say about it oh cinnamon toast bitch says every wednesday at my work we have a little midday group break where we all sit down and chill together and answer a random question. First of all, I love that.

I think that's super cool. I really want to see y'all's answers to today's prompt. If you could take away one animal's ability to fly and give it to an otherwise flightless animal, what would you choose? I would take the power of flight away from wasps and give it to penguins. That is a great answer. Yeah, I mean, well, it's tough to top that. Yeah. Man, if wasps couldn't fly,

the things I could do... That would really open things up for me. Sure would. Yeah, I'd take it away from wasps. I agree. Those fuckers, they don't need that. What if bunnies could fly? That'd be fucking cute as hell.

Oh my gosh. But then, okay, well, no. I was going to say it, but then think of the bunny turds falling from the sky, but they do pebbles. So yeah, that's better than bird turds. We're coming up with some improvements. We are. That's right.

I think this is an improvement. Flying bunnies. I'm smiling because I'm thinking of what it would be like to drive down the street and see bunnies flying. Oh, but then what if you hit a bunny with your car? Well, that'd be terrible, but that could happen now. Yeah, but

it's little wings. It would hit the windshield is what i'm saying yeah and that would be bad is this coming from you because you've recently had a bird no but i did a couple years ago and it was terrible and you know this you know how traumatizing it was i know and david hit a bird one day in with my car and um i was pregnant with london at the time and jackson was with us and i was sure that we were gonna get home and there was just gonna be blood all over the car we did on the highway yeah and so the bird hit it was super loud and jackson was like what was that and we're like oh nothing and then when we got home before I allowed Jackson to get out of the car, I made David walk around and check to see if there was blood all over the car.

There wasn't somehow. But we never told Jackson what the loud noise was. Well, it's too bad that he listens to this podcast. Yeah. Yes. Oh, no. Disney adult wants to know, have you allall watched the Tinder swindler thoughts? Have you watched it?

Oh, fuck yeah, I've watched it. Oh, man. I enjoyed the shit out of that. So did I. I feel so terrible for those women. I know. I think – because the other thing is like I think it's tough when you are the victim of something and you know that in coming forward, that's the only way to hopefully stop this person. But also you know you're going to get a ton of shit.

Yeah. Yeah. People – people are fucking stupid. Here's the thing. Because people are like, oh, they were greedy. They were with him for the money. Here's the fudging thing, people are like oh they were greedy they were with him for the money here's the fudging thing people if a hottie approaches you and you seem to click and it turns out they're

really fucking rich that is icing on the cake and also like this wasn't the first rodeo for these ladies. The one, this was the second diamond guy she dated. So, yeah, like, no, they know what they're doing. Like, this guy sucks. Don't blame it on the ladies. Ugh. Ridiculous. Anyway, yeah,

I was obsessed with that. Also, are we comfortable allowing Disney adults into our Discord? Oh, my gosh. Okay. Chew Renty says, I'm sorry. Chew Rinity says, not a question, but you're both right about the bathroom procedures in an armored car. What?

The guys do switch, but have also been known to pee in bottles. I worked for an armored truck service. Damn, it feels good to be right. Damn, it feels good to be a gangsta. Yeah, that's fun to hear from a white Johnson County lady. It's a song. Thoughts? Oh, sorry.

Greedy Little Beaver wants to know thoughts on Zelensky, president of Ukraine. Oh, I mean. A true leader. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's – god, that whole situation is so scary and sad. It's so scary. I mean, I mean – A true leader. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's – god, that whole situation is so scary and sad. It's so scary. I mean I just –

People's bravery is astounding to me. Absolutely. And to see the leader of a country fucking in fatigues with a gun strapped to him on the front line of the conflict is just unbelievable to me. And watching some of the interviews of him from previous years. Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah. What an incredible person.

Absolutely. Also, did you see the picture of him receiving his COVID vaccine? No. Why? He did it shirtless. I mean, OK, you know what? You, you motherfucker. I i wasn't gonna talk about how hot he is because i was like it's not it's not appropriate it's not it's not pertinent to the

story uh-huh correct and then you bring up him being shirtless he knew what he was fucking doing oh he's like oh if i get out here and flaunt all of this getting my covid vaccine well fucking putin took that shirtless pick on the horse and i'm sorry you know that didn't did nothing for me didn't land the way he'd hoped oh brazilian blowout wants to know brandy what is the best way to tell someone that their skills don't mesh with the job they're in like imagine someone who can't hold a pair of scissors or a curling iron who was somehow hired as a hairstylist and is just failing spectacularly every day they show up. How would you break it to them that maybe this isn't the right path for them to follow? I actually had to do this once. No.

Are you serious? Yeah. And it was a woman like – I went to cosmetology school with her. We were on different like levels. But like by the time I became a manager within the company, she was training to be a stylist. She got hired on the same company that I worked for. And she reached out to me because she's like, I'm at this particular company. You had to go through a training program.

You had to graduate the training program before you were able to take clients. Sure. And she reached out to me because she's like, I'm just having a really hard time with the training program. I've had to take it twice now. Oh, shit. And they're talking about some additional training or some one-on-one stuff with a trainer. But at this point – And she's already got her cosmetology.

Yeah, and this was a career change for her later in life and so i very like just as nicely as possible was like you know i would just kind of maybe assess where where your passion level is and how that aligns with your skill level and, you know, see if you think that this is the direction that you want to continue and maybe assess if seeking some additional training outside of this before going into the salon might be the next step for you. That's a really good way of putting it. Yeah. And honestly, it's like if this is what you are passionate about in life

then yeah then yes continue train hard but if like if the passion's not there along with the skill not being there check out other yes yeah well that had to very uncomfortable. That woman's name? Is not going to be said on this podcast. Brandy, I was setting you up to name like a famous hairstylist. Who's the famous? Vidal Sassoon. Ken Paves. Grainy white privileges. I literally just learned that Brandy's dad's name is Tim.

I kept hearing 10 pounds. Fun fact. And I thought I was missing a joke. That is not the first time someone has said that. Not at all. Yeah. Brandy's dad. Tim.

Tim. T-I-M. Yes. Short for Timothy. His name is Timothy. Yes. And his last name is Pounce. And, short for Timothy. His name is Timothy. Yes. And his last name is Pounce. And that's my dad.

And you can write that down in your Tim Pounce fun fact journal. In your Tim Pounce. Okay, I have not done this yet, but I'm going to. Factory Rat wants to know, Brandy and Kristen, are you watching The Amazing Race? Super hot Ryan Ferguson's on it. Are you watching it? No. I mean, I tried to get into that show a while back and I just couldn't.

I've never watched The Amazing Race, but I told myself I was going to watch it because Ryan Ferguson was on it. Here's what I have been watching. Okay. Because he's on The Amazing Race right now and because Ryan Ferguson also just launched a podcast called Prison Counts. It's decent. I checked it out. I really liked it. But because he's got both of those things going on right now,

what he is doing is a lot of lives on his Instagram and he does a lot of them shirtless. Wow, Brandi. I've caught a couple of those. You've made time for those, have you? I mean, I've just caught some of them here and there.

Yeah. Do you just, like, scroll for pictures of hot shirtless dudes? I mean, you're telling us about the president of Ukraine. What else you got? That's about it. Wow. Okay. I have to agree with this.

Okay. Lance Bass asked, what series did you love that has been canceled? And Blue Orchid responded, Santa Clarita Diet. I loved Santa Clarita Diet. I think it was so well written, so funny, and just like creepy kind of subject matter. It's like zombies living amongst us. Yeah, I was super bummed it was canceled after three seasons. Okay, this is a really weird answer to this question.

I wasn't going to say it, but you asked the question. Yeah. Okay, Norman and I just like stumbled upon this show from like 2013. Yeah. It's on HBO. It's called Hello Ladies. It's by Stephen Merchant. He's a guy who – yeah.

He's the tall, lanky guy. Yep. Yeah. Did The Office. Yeah. It is so funny and so good. Yeah. They did one season and then they ended it with a movie.

Yeah. And it's like okay i'm gonna preface this with i hate romantic comedies this is the best romantic comedy i've ever seen i have another one okay it's called i'm sorry there were two seasons of it it's andrea savage she's a comedian um she writes the show and on the show she is a comedy writer. So it's kind of about her, kind of not. The comedy is exactly my flavor of comedy. In one episode, she accidentally sends a picture of a woman biting a man's penis to her daughter's teacher.

Yeah, exactly my brand of comedy. It had two seasons on TruTV. And then it got renewed for the third season, and then COVID happened, and so it got canceled, and they never came back to it. It's hilarious. Both seasons are available on Netflix.

Okay, I'm going to check it out. All right. I'm sorry, is what it's called. And then we will use the power of this podcast to bring it back. There are dozens of you. Dozens! Should we move on to Supreme Court abductions? We should. And this week we are continuing

read your names and your favorite cookies. And no one is sick of us asking about the favorite cookies. Everyone loves it. On the episode 205 for real, this one, right? Yeah. I did take some time to correct

the errors that you made in this document. Oh, there you are. There's your little pink Kristen. Kayla Jones. Italian Christmas cookies. Cassandra Lopez. Mexican wedding cookies. Casey Muller Bunnell.

Chocolate chip. Gracie. Probably Oreos. Probably. Are you guessing? Gracie. You know this is a question about yourself. It's your own question.

You can answer it however you want. K-Pep. Mexican chocolate cookies. Blue Valentine. Vegan peanut butter and jelly cookies Lose Snickerdoodle Lauren Burger cookies from Baltimore

Mary Beth Z Chocolate filled snowballs Oh shit, what's that? Does it have coconut on it? I would assume We're picturing the same thing Kendall B Peanut butter cookies with M&M's Auburn R I would assume. Hmm. We're picturing the same thing. Kendall B. Peanut butter cookies with M&Ms.

Auburn R. My grandma's homemade chocolate chip cookies. That clearly says, my grandma's homemade chocolate chip cookies. All right. There is an exclamation point. Okay. Justin H. Wegmans brand ultimate chocolate chip cookie.

Jennifer K. Double chocolate Milano. That's a thing? Yeah. Fuck. There are so many things you don't know. You're not putting your cookies in coffee, which is like, what are you, a child? I guess.

Yeah. Double chocolate Milano. Yeah. I didn't know that was a thing. It's wonderful. Veronica L. I'm not done talking about it. Oh, okay. Fudge Stripes. I'm not done talking about it. Oh, okay.

Fudge Stripes. Oops, Fudge Stripes! Victoria Costa. Oh, yeah. Okay, those round Pepperidge Farm cookies with the jelly in the middle. No? I don't like jelly cookies. I don't like jelly.

Well, is it okay if Victoria likes them? Victoria, eat all the jelly cookies you want. I won't take any of them. Victoria Scott. Verona's. Megan A. Lofthouse Frosted Sugar with Sprinkles. Welcome to the Supreme Court!

Thank you, everyone, for all of your support. We appreciate it so much. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. Social media is taking over the world. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, Patreon.

Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and then head on over to Apple Podcasts. Leave us a five-star rating and review and then be sure to join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned!

This is where you do the... I am so sorry. I thought we were done for a second. I was like, yep! And now for a note about our process.

I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. I got my info from an episode of The Real Story with Maria Elena Salinas titled Confessions of an Innocent Man. An episode of American Justice titled Wrongly Convicted Marty Tankleff Finally Freed. An episode of the Wrongful Conviction podcast titled Jason Flom with Marty Tankleff. And also reporting from the New York Times. I got my info from an episode of Accident, Suicide, or Mort...

Moida. Hey, see? Articles for the Macon Telegraph and WGXA News. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.