Let's Go To Court! - 212: An Australian Catfish & Domestic Violence

Episode Date: April 27, 2022

Kristin starts us off with a catfish…. AUSTRALIAN STYLE! When Davine Arckens was 24-years-old, she set off on the adventure of a lifetime: A year in Australia. She had such a good time that she de...cided to extend her stay for an additional year. But in order to do that, she had to find work. It didn’t take long for Davine to connect online with a farmer named Max. He claimed he owned a remote farm and he needed a farmhand to help him raise cattle.  Then Brandi tells us a story of domestic violence. Camia Gamet crouched down in the bushes outside her boyfriend’s apartment and called 911. She asked the dispatcher to send help to her boyfriend’s apartment. Except, she didn’t admit that it was her boyfriend’s apartment. And when the dispatcher asked who she was, Camia ended the call. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Backpacker kidnapped and shackled in abandoned pig shed by madman,” episode of 60 Minutes Australia “Backpacker rapist Gene Charles Bristow, who kept kidnap victim in pig shed, jailed,” by Rebecca Opie for ABC Australia “European backpacker says she felt like a ‘slave’ during two-day rape ordeal in ‘dirty pig shed’” by Rebecca Opie for ABC Australia “Australian farmer Gene Charles Bristow guilty of raping backpacker,” BBC News “Alleged rapist Gene Charles Bristow admits to using fake name,” by Rebecca Opie for ABC Australia “Lawyer for alleged ‘pig shed’ rapist Gene Bristow accuses backpacker of making up evidence,” by Rebecca Opie for ABC Australia “Farmer who kidnapped and raped a Belgian backpacker he kept prisoner in pig shed loses appeal against his convictions,” Australian Associated Press In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Camia Gamet” episode Snapped “Broken glass, dented frying pan, busted lamp found near body of Marcel Hill, allegedly beaten, stabbed to death by girlfriend” by Danielle Salisbury, mlive.com “Case manager testifies she warned Marcel Hill of Camia Gamet, the woman accused of killing him” by Danielle Salisbury, mlive.com “The Domestic Abuse and Brutal Murder of Marcel Hill” by Anita Durairaj, Medium “The Camia Gamet Murder Case” Jim Fisher True Crime “State of Michigan v. Camia Tiffany Gamet” justia.com “Camia Gamet” murderpedia.org YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 30+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

Transcript
Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll be talking about an Australian catfish. And I'll be talking about domestic violence. Oh, great. Yeah. Bummer of an episode. Here we go. But hey, you like the Australian cases. Yeah. What? It's like a catfish.
Starting point is 00:00:32 Australian style! Okay, great. You know, it was impossible to work on this without hearing you in my head going, Australian style! You're welcome. I'm feeling like it's real cushy in the sex dungeon today. You know, I was thinking, we've had a lot of drama in our studio and we've not
Starting point is 00:00:56 communicated it to the listeners. We haven't talked about it at all. Everyone, we had this room. You know, we've got quilts up on the walls to absorb sound we had a rug
Starting point is 00:01:11 and Kit unbeknownst to me for a while was using this room as her piss palace yeah own personal piss palace we thought she was doing great with the potty training turns out she just found a special pot anyway it smelled own personal piss palace. We thought she was doing great with the potty training. Turns out she just found a special plot.
Starting point is 00:01:30 Anyway, it smelled horrible in here. You were, like, polite and you lied about it a lot. I didn't lie. I didn't think it smelled that bad. It smelled terrible. Everyone, we're in here for hours at a time. Yeah. It really adds up. Anyway, long story short, I hours at a time. Yeah. It really adds up.
Starting point is 00:01:48 Anyway, long story short, I got a new rug. Yeah, and it's cushy and it smells like new rug, not like kit piss. You're welcome. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it. You know what I like almost as much as shaving my legs? What? Our Patreon. Well, that's a terrible ad. Nobody likes shaving my legs um what our patreon well that's terrible ad nobody nobody likes
Starting point is 00:02:08 shaving their legs i love having freshly shaved legs oh hold up don't switch it around now yeah we all love you know what i love almost as much as having freshly shaved legs what our patreon What? Our Patreon! Well, I agree, but you sound dumb. Everyone, I'm loving the reaction to our latest bonus episode. Oh my gosh, yes. Okay, people are pissed off about your case. Yes. I mean, you did a great job covering the viral interrogation video. Oh my gosh. Very upsetting.
Starting point is 00:02:39 But they're also partial to my case. Oh, people are loving the shit we threw at Noom. Yeah. Noom. Never going to be a sponsor of this podcast. Never sponsor this podcast. We've made our peace with it. If you want to listen to that episode, plus all the other bonus episodes.
Starting point is 00:02:58 The 33 other bonus episodes. Yeah. You'd be crazy not to sign up. Yeah. It's at the $5 level. Also, if you want more than that, and believe me, there's more. Yeah, but you'd be crazy not to sign up. Yeah. It's at the $5 level. Also, if you want more than that, and believe me, there's more. Yeah. Oh, there's more.
Starting point is 00:03:10 You're going to want it, too. All right. We've made it a little creepy. Don't know why. But if you sign up at the $7 level, you get all that. Plus, you get into the Discord. You get monthly Zoom calls. You get a sticker.
Starting point is 00:03:23 You get our autographs. Oh sticker. You get our autographs. Oh, my God, our autographs. You also get inducted into the podcast at the $10 level. You know what that is? That's the Bob Moss level. It sure is. And with that, you get all the stuff from the previous levels plus ad-free episodes. And you get them a day early.
Starting point is 00:03:44 Also, 10% off merch. What more could you want? 20% off? Shut up. It's too much. That's too much. I was doing like a Price is Right thing. I know what you were doing.
Starting point is 00:04:00 Well, I mean, not everyone is as familiar with game shows as you are. We can't all be on your level. But, you know, what can we do? Are you going to talk to us about Australia now? Yeah. What are you doing with your watch over there? I got like a – somebody added me in the Discord.
Starting point is 00:04:14 And so I was just seeing if it was something exciting. Was it? Yeah. What was it? Somebody suggesting a bonus video idea. What is it? Well, so bonus video idea. What is it? Well, so on this month's bonus video we're doing or Zoom call we're doing like am I the asshole and relationship advice Reddit. We're going to read those and react to them.
Starting point is 00:04:35 Somebody suggested that we do like a mean tweets thing. Oh. Oof. Ugh. I prefer not to do that. Anyway, shout outs to. I prefer not to do that. Anyway, shout outs to reporting by Rebecca Opie for ABC Australia and an episode of 60 Minutes Australia. Okay.
Starting point is 00:04:59 I'm not going to give you the title of that episode because, man, it just gives the whole thing away. I mean, didn't you already give it away? Aren't we talking about a catfish Australian style? There's more to it. Oh, okay, great. Than meets the catfish's eye. Also. Don't look at me like that because I covered one eye. Did I look like I was disappointed?
Starting point is 00:05:17 You looked so disappointed. You're like, this is who I chose to go into business with. Oh, boy. I chose my long into business with. Oh, boy. I chose my long-term friend. Too late now. 25 years in, nothing I can do about it now. Just going to ride this thing until the wheels come off. We got ourselves an international case disclaimer here.
Starting point is 00:05:43 But they speak English in Australia. Do they? Do they really? It's OK. Here's the other disclaimer I have to put out there. OK. I have a weird thing about 60 Minutes Australia. OK.
Starting point is 00:06:00 They upload to YouTube regularly and I really like them. Like I really like the presenter. So I have weirdly watched a lot of 60 Minutes Australia. I don't know why. That is kind of weird. OK. But what I discovered from like actually having to like take notes and stuff and actually try to talk about it later is I don't really understand. Like every sixth word.
Starting point is 00:06:23 I don't really understand, like, every sixth word. So I realized, like, uh-oh, oh, shit, I'm not really catching on to everything that's being said here. So I was like, okay, I'll go to my good friend, closed captions. They were even worse than I was. So international case disclaimer, I say to you. All right. Let's talk about Devine Arkin. Ooh. Devine is very cool.
Starting point is 00:06:50 And unfortunately, okay, so my international case disclaimer just starts right here. One sentence. One second in and you're like, okay, and this is where I'm going to stop. Okay. Well, I told you, like, for some reason I struggle with the Australian accent a bit. Uh-huh. But it really hit the fan at the beginning of this episode where the newscaster was talking about how Davine was from a small town in Belgium. And I thought I understood that part perfectly.
Starting point is 00:07:23 I thought she's from Hewlett, Belgium. And I thought I understood that part perfectly. I thought she's from Hewlett, Belgium. Okay. And I Googled it later because I wanted to learn more. That's not a place. There is, however, a Hewlett Packard corporate office located near Brussels. That's in Belgium. Yeah. So great. She grew up in the Hewlett Packard. Corporate office. Corporate office, yeah.
Starting point is 00:07:49 Which seems like a very boring way to live. No, what you need to know is Davina's from Belgium. And while I can't point it out to you on a map, I can tell you that the B-roll of this town looked lovely. Yes. It had very cool architecture. We're talking brick buildings with detailing in the brick. Oh, yeah. You know, I love it when they're like,
Starting point is 00:08:10 oh, we're switching the brick style now. I do like that. I'm going to put it in cattywampus, but it's not cattywampus. No, it's because it's like, yeah. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. We're talking arched windows. Uh-huh. Turrets. Bavaria kind of situation. Bavaria situation? What's a Bavaria situation? Yeahrets. Bavaria kind of situation.
Starting point is 00:08:25 Bavaria situation? What's a Bavaria situation? Yeah, like Bavarian style stuff. Oh, well, you know what? I know what you mean by your hands going all, you know, like that. Sorry, everyone. We realize we're podcasters. Are we good at it?
Starting point is 00:08:39 Maybe not. So the town is on the small side and it has a lot of greenery. But from what I could see, it looked like they had a lot of the same type of tree. And perhaps that was why when Devine was in her early 20s, she was like, I got to get out of here. Got to see more trees. Need to explore the world. Need to see a place where there are multiple types of trees thriving in the same environment. Am I right, Brandy?
Starting point is 00:09:02 Oh, you don't get it. You don't get it. Something only the hottest, coolest girls appreciate. Yeah. Okay. Speaking of cool girls, Davina is very cool and very adventurous. Even her haircut is adventurous. What is it?
Starting point is 00:09:21 Okay, I'm going to start this by saying she actually pulls this off. I'm going to describe it, and I know it's going start this by saying she actually pulls this off. I'm going to describe it and I know it's going to sound like no one can pull this off. Is it asymmetrical? Well, in a sense, it's like a mullet shag situation. Somehow it looks good on her. Some people can pull it off. Miley Cyrus. I know, but I mean, that's like the percentage of people who –
Starting point is 00:09:49 That cast member on SNL right now. Which one? What's her name? I don't know. What do you got to do to get a cast list? Oh, great. We're just – I've just got all 40 years of jesus christ okay any day now i'm gonna figure out who it is
Starting point is 00:10:14 boy this is riveting material i really i'm loving this sarah sherman okay are you to show me a picture of her? No. Yes, hold on. She's beautiful, and she has a shag mullet. Oh, yes. Okay, yeah. Yep, she sure does. Yeah. Some people can pull it off.
Starting point is 00:10:38 It's wild. It is wild. Speaking of SNL, do you ever stop and think about what a miracle it was that we got Bowen Yang instead of that douchey racist white guy who had a stupid podcast? Yeah. Bowen Yang is like my favorite. Bowen Yang is amazing. Yeah. And it's what's the most amazing thing to me is that he was not like the first pick.
Starting point is 00:11:04 Like some douchebag white guy was like the first pick. And then it's like, oh, I guess we'll get this other guy. Podcast where he said all kinds of racist shit on it. Oh, crap. We're going to fire that guy. Anyway. Yeah. All I'm saying, did you ever see the Bo and Yang thing where he dresses up as the iceberg that hit the Titanic?
Starting point is 00:11:27 Yes. Norman doesn't get it. Oh, it's hilarious. It's one of my favorite things. Everybody look it up. He goes on Weekend Update as the iceberg that hit the Titanic. Anyway, okay. I'm glad we went on that tangent.
Starting point is 00:11:41 Devine loves nature. She loves new experiences. She loves to bike, to hike, to travel. She likes trees. Yeah. Unlike someone I know. I do like trees. Just one specific
Starting point is 00:11:56 kind of tree. Aspens are my favorite. You're really not super in love with them, I gotta say. In fact, by her early 20s, she'd already traveled through South Africa, Guatemala, and China. Oh, shit. I know. And as a result, she had these wild pictures of herself.
Starting point is 00:12:14 And mind you, these are not like Instagram-y perfect pictures. These are like hardcore bitch-I'm-traveling pictures. There's a picture of her handling this large, disgusting snake with what appears to be like the end of a pooper scooper or something. Snake stick. It's terrible. It's called a snake stick. All right. Snake stick.
Starting point is 00:12:35 All right. It was disgusting. The photo looks like it was taken in some kind of terrifying vet. Oh, fun fact. That snake is now dead. Why is that a fun fact? And so are all other snakes, so we don't have to worry about snakes anymore. That's not true. There's also a picture of Devine in what appears to be some sort of like zookeeper uniform. She's feeding a carrot to a panda. Okay, that's really cute. The carrot looks like it's peeled. Okay. Doesn't that seem kind of weird?
Starting point is 00:13:05 I don't know. Maybe pandas like their carrots peeled. How? What? I don't know. How would you figure that out? I don't know. Maybe you do an experiment. You give them three carrots that aren't peeled, and then you see which ones they eat.
Starting point is 00:13:27 Although they eat them all, then... Then let's not waste time peeling these bad boys. But pandas don't deserve to have their carrots peeled. It just seems unnecessary. Okay. Seems like super unnecessary to me. But, you know, I'm all about simple living. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:13:50 When I feed pandas, I don't put too much effort into it. I don't want to feed a panda now. No. Why? Let the pandas be, I say. Touch its little face. Yeah, and I hope it bites your hand because it's like I'm a fucking panda. Well, I wouldn't do it without its permission.
Starting point is 00:14:12 How does one get consent? You can figure it out. Yeah, it's a vibe. Yeah. If it does like a flirty touch. If it rips my face off, then it didn't want me to touch it. That's how you know. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:14:25 All right, great. There's also a picture of Devine shooting a rifle. What? At what? We don't know. I hope it's... I don't know what the right answer to the end of that is. And there are pictures of her in the mountains and at the base of trails, so you get the idea.
Starting point is 00:14:43 She is Carmen Sandiego. pictures of her in the mountains and at the base of trails, so you get the idea. She is Carmen Sandiego. And when she was 24... Where in the world is Carmen Sandiego? We can't say the town in Belgium, so that rules that out. When she was 24, she was all geared up to go to Australia. She wanted to see the wildlife. She wanted to explore nature. She wanted to go backpacking. Brandy, you're making a lot of faces. You got some opinions?
Starting point is 00:15:10 Does she know about all the snakes and spiders? I don't think she's as afraid of stuff as we are. I'm just saying, like, I, too, would love to go to Australia. I'm saying like I too would love to go to Australia and I think that I will someday. But like to, you know, real fancy hotel part. Yeah. I'm certainly not exploring the wilderness. Didn't you hear that all the snakes are dead now?
Starting point is 00:15:39 Good news. Good news. Good news. They're dead. I think they also got like crocodiles and sharks out there. They sure do. Yeah. Just everything that's trying to kill you. What are your thoughts on backpacking?
Starting point is 00:15:56 You like that? No. I don't want to fucking backpack. I had one backpacking experience. I nearly died. Oh, was that the Grand Canyon? Yes. When you got camel toe?
Starting point is 00:16:04 I got canyon toe. Thank you very much. You know what was involved? Bats, a fucking giant spider. And fabric way up your vag. No, fabric up my vag. I did experience a visual of somebody else's horrible camel toe. When you were at the Grand Canyon?
Starting point is 00:16:27 Yeah, when I was hiking out. A lady was hiking in and it was, I mean, she was, the hike, I was almost to the end and she was just getting started. And her leggings were already way up there. Did a rough hike ahead of her. She sure did. Well, God bless her. Anyway. Bears, too.
Starting point is 00:16:48 There were bears in the canyon. The day after I got out of the canyon, front page of the newspaper, black bears spotted in the Grand Canyon first time in 100 years. Really? Yes. Maybe it was just trying to get a look at that toe. Maybe it was just me. I was like, you know, real grumbly. Kept stealing picnic baskets.
Starting point is 00:17:13 Had huckleberries all over your face. What are huckleberries? I don't know. Anyway, but yeah, you had them. Anyway, so here we go. She didn't just want to visit. Enough about you being a bear. Sorry. You've got to be a twink, okay?
Starting point is 00:17:29 My grandma called me Brandy Bear when I was little. That's so cute. Yes. So, in your face. I didn't realize that that was something you were throwing at me. Anyway, Devine didn't want to just visit. She wanted to get a working visa that would last for a year. Okay.
Starting point is 00:17:57 And so she did. But in 2016, she flew down to Australia, and she had a blast. She went surfing. She went snorkeling. She did that thing where you sled down a hill of sand. Yeah. You okay there? No, I'm just real worried for her. It's too much stuff. She went to one of
Starting point is 00:18:15 Australia's pink lakes. Did you know about this? No, is it a salt lake? Yeah, I mean... Yeah, it's like the pink salt. Yeah, so it's like the color of Pepto Bismol they look really cool but also kind of creepy and they're obviously
Starting point is 00:18:28 not clear and man she just stuck her foot in anyway like a badass oh she is so brave I'm seeing how
Starting point is 00:18:37 lame we are I know with this story I know cause like it's an objectively cool story it is it's so cool and I'm so scared
Starting point is 00:18:44 and we're just like we're like oh gosh so she snorkeled did she see all the stuff down there Because, like, it's an objectively cool story. It is. It's so cool. And I'm so scared. And we're just like, oh, gosh. So she snorkeled. Did she see all the stuff down there? Did she know there was a lot of stuff in the water? So when she put her foot in the pink water, did she wonder what kind of stuff was in there? She went to Sydney.
Starting point is 00:19:04 She went to Melbourne. She went to Melbourne. She went to Tasmania. She got on this terrifying, skinny little bridge thing that went from one mountain to another. Pass. I'm already scared of bridges, kind of. Yeah. But then, you know, that true crime down the Delphi case. Down the hill, yeah. Now I can't go near any bridges.
Starting point is 00:19:29 So she's doing all this stuff. She's having a great time. In fact, she was having such a good time that she decided she wanted to stay for two years. But if she wanted to do that, she'd definitely have to find a job in the bush in order to get the – I know. You know what? I only put that in there because I knew you'd want to make a vagina joke. I was going to say that's what my waxer does. She got a job in the bush.
Starting point is 00:19:58 Amazing. Hilarious. Yeah. Well done. Thank you. So she'd have to do that in order to get the visa extended. And if you want more information on that process, I can't help you because all of my knowledge on visas comes from 90 Day Fiance. So there we go.
Starting point is 00:20:16 But the bottom line is that Devine was like, OK, I just need to work for whatever number of days I need to in order to get my visa extended for another year. What the hell is happening to you? Nothing. What's wrong with you? I bit my cheek just now. If anyone wants to see Brandy make an alarming face, watch her bite her cheek. So Devine got on Gumtree, which is like Australia's Craigslist. And she posted an ad looking for work. And after a while, she got a response.
Starting point is 00:20:48 Real missed opportunity there, Kristen. What? It's like Craigslist. Australian style! Those are your jokes. I'm going to let you have them. I thought you wanted me to sing that classic song, Kookaburra Sits in the Old Gum Tree. Kookaburra sits in the old gum tree.
Starting point is 00:21:09 Merry, merry king of the bushes he left. Kookaburra laughs. Kookaburra gay your life must be. Ha, ha, ha. Classic song. I'm sorry, everyone. We're in a weird mood today.
Starting point is 00:21:24 I don't know what we're feeling today. What are we feeling? I don't know. Oh, I see you've got, what is it? Shut up. Mellow. What is it? Shy marshmallow today.
Starting point is 00:21:35 Oh, my shy marshmallow. Oh, shy marshmallow. That's right. I've got two of these water bottles that do not sponsor the podcast, but we love them anyway. That's the Ouala free sip. That's right. You ever have trouble sipping on your water? I didn't think I did either,
Starting point is 00:21:48 but then you try one of these bad boys. Turns out you did! Turns out you did! No, I needed it in my life. Anyway, yeah, I've got two colors because I'm rich. I only have one color. Yeah. Sorry to show off my privilege.
Starting point is 00:22:06 I just work harder than you. Oh, rude. I'm just, like, better. In every way? You know, I have a saying that I made up, but it's, we have 24 usable hours in every day. I bet you do dumb shit like sleep. I do. But dumb shit like sleep. I do. But not even that much.
Starting point is 00:22:29 That's why you're living the one water bottle lifestyle. Follow me for more tips. Oh my gosh, that's a great idea. What if we started a whole new podcast that was just like toxic positivity? Just fake lifestyle tips. Wonderful idea. So good. No, I lost the thing to my.
Starting point is 00:23:01 Now you're just, your flap's just flapping around. Everyone, I lost the flappy thing to my watch. The loopy thing to your watch. The loopy thing to my... Now you're just your flaps just flapping around. Everyone, I lost the flappy thing to my watch. The loopy thing to your watch. The loopy thing to my watch. Now it's flapping
Starting point is 00:23:10 because I lost my looping. I'm sorry, we will get on track. Oh, for fuck's sake. You know what the problem is? I started the I started the episode. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:23:21 Lately, we've had so many where you start and I feel like you bring a real seriousness to the podcast. Thank you. That we really need. That's right.
Starting point is 00:23:28 I do usually wear a top hat and a tweed jacket with elbow patches. While I just wear a tuxedo t-shirt and nothing else. I think it's really showing today. It is. Your nips are showing in fact. You lucky, lucky lady. Anyway, okay, so she has to extend her work visa, so she just has to get a job wherever she can get a job. So she gets a job in the bush.
Starting point is 00:23:54 So she lost that loopy thing in her watch. No, she gets a job in the bush. So she got a response. So just back, back to the book. Oh, okay, she's trying to get a job in the bush. She's on Gumtree with the kookaburra, and she gets this response from a farmer named Max. He said he had a farm in Lameroo, which is a really small town in southern Australia. We're talking home to less than 1,000 people.
Starting point is 00:24:17 Oh, shit. That is a really small town. So Max messaged her and said, would you be interested in rearing baby calves on a farm two and a half hours from Adelaide? He went on to explain that he worked for a network of farms owned by a company called Genesis Inc. And they employed a ton of people who were just like her, backpackers who needed a little work. There would be free accommodation, flexible work arrangements, and the pay was $20 an hour. Max told her that he had this opening because a French girl had been working on his farm and she had, you know, moved on with her travels or whatever. Devine asked a few questions, but really this sounded perfect.
Starting point is 00:24:58 She told her friend Echo Wang about the opportunity, and Echo was like, oh my gosh, congratulations. Devine and Echo had met three years earlier in China and they were really close friends and they both love to travel. Echo is very cool also. Obviously. I mean, yeah. Yeah. She's also beautiful and she has like another hairstyle that I feel like is, you can only
Starting point is 00:25:22 pull off if you're really cool. Does she have some kind of bang? No, it's just bleached. And like, you know, not everyone can just bleach their hair, but she looks pretty fucking cool. Anyway, neither here nor there. Much like your bleached butthole. Thank you, Brandy.
Starting point is 00:25:38 You know, no one ever comments on my bleached butthole and I show it to everyone. Everyone's so critical these days, I find. They're like, oh, we don't want to see your butthole. Oh, I've already seen enough buttholes today. Oh my god, I'm trying to eat hummus here. You know, it's just like a whole thing. But you've always been
Starting point is 00:26:02 so welcoming. Yeah. And thrilled. Yes. I'm always thrilled to see your freshly bleached butthole. So they both like to travel. And Echo was doing something pretty similar to what Devine was about to do. She was traveling in Australia and she'd taken a job picking fruit so that she could fulfill the requirements of her visa. So Echo was like, that's great. You'll be fine.
Starting point is 00:26:26 You know, enjoy. Good luck. Whatever. Devine was a little nervous because even though she was always really adventurous, she also took precautions. She rarely did anything alone. But, you know, this was going to kind of be the exception. But, you know, she was doing what a ton of backpackers do all the time.
Starting point is 00:26:49 So she decided, what the hell? She took the job. She worked with Max to make kind of all the arrangements. And on Thursday, February 9th, what? Is Max the catfish? Is this like a gumtree killer, like Craigslist killer, Australian style. You know, there's no job. She's going to get there and he's just going to murder her.
Starting point is 00:27:11 And then Echo Wang is going to track her down. I'm going to have to offer up a criticism. And it's that you did not come to this very quickly. You were too focused on my butthole, I think. I've been doing a lot of thinking about your bleached anus. It's called envy. So on Thursday, February 9th, 2017, Devine took an hour-long bus ride from central Adelaide to Murray Bridge. And just as he'd promised, when Devine arrived, Max was there waiting for her. He seemed like a nice, normal guy. He was in his 50s and dressed like, you know, a farmer.
Starting point is 00:27:56 She could... You okay? Very suspicious of Max now. Mm-hmm. Yep. She got into his red pickup truck and they headed down the road. By the way, even though his name was definitely Max, it was for sure Max, he had a personalized license plate. It read Gene 01.
Starting point is 00:28:16 Okay. Well, that's confusing. How's he spelling it? G-E-N-E? Mm-hmm. Okay. Not like a pair of jeans. That's how ladies spell it.
Starting point is 00:28:28 Yeah, but he's a dude. Don't get me. Or a bloke. Maybe it was like for his Sheila. No. No. So they drove and drove and drove through just like miles and miles of rural land. Right.
Starting point is 00:28:45 And if the B-roll is to be believed, they drove on the wrong side of the road. Kristen. Oh my God, that's so stupid. You know what? Not as stupid as questiony. I regretted that as soon as I said it. My God. Why am I like this?
Starting point is 00:29:06 You know, Max had said his farm was located in Lamarue, but it was really located in Menengi, which is also a very small rural town, but it's much less remote than Lamarue. In fact, Max's farm isn't all that far from the local police station. In fact, Max's farm isn't all that far from the local police station. Technically, the drive from Murray Bridge to Meninji should take less than an hour. I think I've now pronounced that town two different ways, so I can't be wrong now.
Starting point is 00:29:40 But Max took a more scenic route. Great. He took about two hours to get to his property. So that she would have no idea where she was. He didn't drive through any towns. Great. He took exclusively back roads. Oh, so no one could see him bringing a woman to his farm that he's about to murder. They crossed two ferries before they finally got to his farm.
Starting point is 00:30:03 Okay. before they finally got to his farm. Okay. The whole time Max was chatty and friendly and they got to his property and he opened a gate and they drove some more and he opened another gate and then he took her to this pig shed. It was about as nice as you would expect a pig shed to be. It had a sheet metal roof,
Starting point is 00:30:26 and about half of the siding is sheet metal, and the other half is cinder block walls, and of course it's filled with hay and animal crap. So Devine and Max walked in, and weirdly the pig shed had a fridge that was broken down, and a futon. And he's like, this is your accommodations? Yeah.
Starting point is 00:30:50 Cool. I think, I didn't write this part down, but I think he said something like, this is your accommodations. And she had tried to be polite about it and be like, you know, I've stayed in worse places. Like, it's okay. Because, you know, what's she going to say? She thinks she's in the middle of nowhere. So Max walked her through the shed saying, okay, this is where you'll raise the calves.
Starting point is 00:31:11 Here's where you're going to feed them. And Devine is just kind of like taking this all in. And sort of out of nowhere, Max told Devine that he'd had trouble with some of his previous farm hands abusing drugs. So he said he needed to check her for needle marks.
Starting point is 00:31:29 And Devine thought he was being very weird, but she said OK. So she showed him her arms and showed him her legs. And Max was totally calm and friendly as he looked at her arms and legs. You know, really, it was a weird situation, but it was kind of okay, I guess. He acted just exactly as he had in the car ride. And then he told her, okay, now I want to check the bottom of your feet for needle marks. So he asked her to lay face down on the futon while he looked at her feet. Then she did.
Starting point is 00:32:03 Oh, God. He seemed to take forever looking at her feet from every angle. And all of a sudden he was on her back attacking her. He kept trying to get her arms behind her back but Davine was strong and she fought back as
Starting point is 00:32:20 hard as she could and it seemed like she was about to overpower him but then he pulled out a gun and held it against her back. Devine was terrified. She stopped struggling. Max used cable ties and then later chains to tie Devine's hands and legs together, and then he took off her clothes and sexually assaulted her. He told her that if she tried to escape, he'd kill her,
Starting point is 00:32:48 and then he introduced her to what was to be her new way of life. He told her, from now on, you don't wear clothes. You must be kind to me. You can't run away. If you do, I'll find you and shoot you. He also told her that there were dangerous snakes on his property. They would bite her if she ran through the field. He also let Devine in on a little secret. She was being sex trafficked. He told her that he was part of a sex trafficking organization and that she was officially caught up in it.
Starting point is 00:33:28 She would never get help from anyone because the police were in on this scheme. He also told her that she was lucky because the other guys in this scheme weren't nice, but he was super nice. So she had to be good to him and she had to love him. Oh, did she? Yeah. Okay. I mean, I can't imagine what was going through her head at this point. But she said she felt powerless and tiny.
Starting point is 00:33:57 She thought about her family and that just made it worse because what were they going to do when she was inevitably murdered out here? Another thing that made this so awful was no one knew where she was. She told people she'd gotten a farming job in southern Australia. But she was in the middle of nowhere. But she was in the middle of nowhere. And I assume when your loved one tells you, oh, I'm getting a farming job in some remote area, you're probably not expecting to hear from them super soon. And so if you don't hear from them for a while, it probably wouldn't seem that alarming. Before Max left the shed, he took Devine's cell phone and he took her keys.
Starting point is 00:34:44 Before Max left the shed, he took Devine's cell phone and he took her keys. At one point, he opened the broken down fridge and Devine spotted something inside the refrigerator. They were little metal hooks. So Max left the shed. Devine had just been through this unimaginably traumatizing event. She'd been kidnapped and raped. And at this point, I believe she had one arm and one leg chained to the wall. So it was risky, but she knew she had to do something.
Starting point is 00:35:21 So she got herself over to that fridge, got it open, and grabbed one of the little metal hooks she'd seen. She was terrified that Max would come back and catch her, but she worked as quickly as she could, pushing that metal hook between the chain links and twisting and twisting and twisting until finally one of the links popped open. Next, she got to work on the chain on her leg. That chain was much harder than the first one, but she kept pushing and twisting and pulling, and finally it gave a little and gave a little, and at last it came undone. So she was free, sort of. By this point, it was dark. She didn't have any idea where she was, so she decided it would be safer to stay put, and she decided to take advantage of the fact that Max had taken her phone but had forgotten to check her backpack for a laptop. So Devine got into her backpack and pulled out her laptop and pulled out the Wi-Fi stick that she had hidden in her bag.
Starting point is 00:36:20 And inside that dirty pig shed, she turned on her laptop and connected to the internet. Oh my gosh. She didn't have a strong signal or anything, but it was just enough. So she turned the light down on her screen as low as she could because she didn't know how much.
Starting point is 00:36:36 Exactly. She had no idea where he was and she didn't want to waste time. She began sending messages to anyone she could. She told her friends and family everything she knew. She'd been picked up at Murray Bridge by a man in a red pickup truck. They'd driven for two hours.
Starting point is 00:36:51 They'd crossed two ferries. He had a gun. She found an email address for the South Australian police and she emailed them. She sent a Facebook message to the Police Association of Southern Australia. She noticed that her friend Echo was on Facebook Messenger, so she messaged Echo. You want to know what they said to each other? Yeah.
Starting point is 00:37:13 Devine, help me. I've been kidnapped. Somewhere in Murray Bridge. On cow farm. Drove two hours. I crossed with two fairies. Don't know where I am. I got chains loose.
Starting point is 00:37:27 Echo. Are you controlled by them now? In a dark room? Or you escaped already? Just don't know where are you now. Devine. Please call police. Echo. Send me the location. Devine. How? Echo. Use Google Map. Devine. I'm on laptop, not phone. Echo, try to keep calm.
Starting point is 00:37:50 Don't worry. You will be safe. And then they lost their Wi-Fi connection. As soon as she lost the signal, Deveen hurried to put everything back. She tucked her laptop away. She hid the Wi-Fi stick. She put the chains back on herself. Meanwhile, Echo did not waste time. She called the police and told them what she knew. And man, these investigators seem to have acted very quickly. Within 10 minutes of getting that phone call that Devine had been kidnapped,
Starting point is 00:38:33 And within 10 minutes of getting that phone call that Devine had been kidnapped, they asked for a triangulation to commence, which is Australian for cell phones go ping, cell towers go pong. We know your location all the day long. And so it didn't take long for investigators to figure out kind of approximately where Devine was being held captive. Because get a load of this. approximately where Devine was being held captive. Because get a load of this. When Max was taking her on that long drive to his property, her cell phone was pinging all the day long and those pings and pongs all backed up everything that Devine had said about her journey. So by this point, Devine's family back in Belgium was, of course, freaking out. Australian authorities were trying to track her down. And in the meantime, all she could do was just like stay put and hope that people took her pleas seriously. Hours passed by.
Starting point is 00:39:14 Max kept coming back to the pig shed to assault Devine and say all kinds of bullshit. He made a big deal of telling her how she was lucky because he was the nice one in the sex trafficking ring. Cool. He was always having to pick up girls for this sex trafficking ring. And he didn't like the job, but it wasn't easy to quit, you know. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:39:41 Woe is me. Yeah. What a tough life you have there, Max. Would you like proof of how nice he was? Oh, sure. Well, he brought her toilet paper, Brandy, and a book. Cool. And some bug spray.
Starting point is 00:39:54 Excellent. Yeah, terribly nice guy. Hope that didn't put him out too much. So roughly two days passed, and all of a sudden, Devine heard planes flying low overhead. She didn't know it, but the nearby town of Meninji was swarming with police. It seems that the main thing that investigators knew was that the man who'd taken Devine
Starting point is 00:40:19 had been driving a red pickup truck, or as they're known in Australia, a big red ute. Sure. Did you know that? No, I didn't know that. UTE, I was like, is that some kind of fancy, like, Australian brand? No, that's just what they call them. I watched a music video the other day that had, like, a thousand views on it from, like, seven years ago about, you know, my baby wants a big red ute. There are red, you know, my baby wants a big red ute.
Starting point is 00:40:45 There are rednecks everywhere. My baby wants a big red ute. I'm telling you, rednecks are everywhere. Okay. Anyway, at 2 p.m., one of those planes spotted a big red ute sort of hidden away beneath a tree and invested. A gum tree. We can only hope.
Starting point is 00:41:08 But, you know, I hear they've got more than one type of tree in Australia. They do. They do. Don't act like you give a shit. Those lemon gum trees, though, they grow real big because I covered a case where a lady fell out of one. Oh, yeah. Died. Mm-hmm.
Starting point is 00:41:22 Fell. She didn't fall. No one ever falls in Brandy's cases. No. They are pushed always. Nuh-uh. There was that one. That's true.
Starting point is 00:41:34 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Won't tell you the one because I'm not going to spoil it. Mm-hmm. She looks so smug right now. So investigators just sat and watched the car, and eventually they saw a man get inside it. And, of course, they let him drive a ways, and they pulled him over and discovered that his name was Gene Bristow.
Starting point is 00:41:58 So while one officer got his info, someone else snapped a few candids of Gene, a.k.a. Max, and they were not flattering. What's Gene look like? Well, first of all, what body part does he look like? You like to compare people to body parts. Only if it fits. I don't squeeze people into boxes. Oh, okay. You're not shoehorning people here.
Starting point is 00:42:19 No. Here's the thing. Gene was wearing a dirty blue sleeveless number. Oh. Okay, okay. Was he driving his big red ute or was he driving something else? Of course he was driving the big red ute. Oh, okay. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:42:32 His baby wants a big red ute. You know, I don't know. Baby gets what baby wants. That's right. Yeah. Unless it's to not be kidnapped. Oh, can't do that. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:42:41 I can't go for that. No can do. Anyway, picture it. blue sleeveless number looks like he smells terrible and he'd paired that with a set of dirty cargo pants oh oh so he had a full length pant on uh-huh they were not shorts they were lungs that's right, she's making fun of my husband right now. Do you want to explain? No. All right. All right.
Starting point is 00:43:16 We'll just leave it at, if you're not wearing shorts, you're wearing longs. That's right. After talking to him briefly, they let him go because he wasn't technically doing anything illegal. Although I'd say the outfit was a crime. Yeah, I would agree. But being stopped by the cops and seeing all the police presence in this small town. Yeah, probably didn't rub Jean too good. No, he was a little like, yikes.
Starting point is 00:43:44 In fact, he pooped himself on the way back to the pig shed. In his cargo longs. Honestly, might have helped the stench. He did not look. You think him shitting his pants was an improvement? Yes, I do. I'm not saying that to, like, be funny or anything. I really mean that. I took one look at this guy.
Starting point is 00:44:03 I was like, uh-uh. Nope. No can do. I. I really mean that. I took one look at this guy. I was like, uh-uh. Nope. No can do. I can't go for that. By the way, the police did not follow him. They didn't? No. And, okay, I, first of all, I applaud the police for working so quickly once they got this tip.
Starting point is 00:44:21 But, like, this town has, has like a thousand people in it. And you see a sketchy guy in a big red ute. Maybe he wasn't sketchy to them. Maybe they know Gene. Gene's super charming. Gene. Everybody knows Gene. You know Gene. He lives right down the street. He drives his big red ute.
Starting point is 00:44:40 Yeah, but you're looking for a dude with a big red ute. Gene wouldn't hurt a fly. You don't send one officer. He's so nice. He would give you toilet paper and a book. Wow. What an amazing. He sounds like the nicest guy in a sex trafficking ring. That's right.
Starting point is 00:44:56 You can't send one officer to just kind of like. No. There's no Pink Panther in. Diddy, diddy, diddy, diddy, diddy, diddy, diddy, diddy, diddy, diddy. No. There's no Pink Panther in. All right. Anyway, so Gene got back to the shed where Devine was still shackled, and he said, There are police everywhere.
Starting point is 00:45:19 We have to go. He told her to put on her clothes, and she grabbed her her backpack and he made her run out of the shed. He got into his truck in full panic mode. I can't believe they were still in his truck. I can't believe he hasn't changed his lungs yet. Anyway, I feel like when you've got snakes and all kinds of crazy wildlife, you don't want to wear shorts. That's true. It's just tempting fate, as they say.
Starting point is 00:45:46 Yeah. It's like when I was doing my yard work the other day and I wore rain boots up to my ass practically. You're in full on fishing, like wading gear. Yes. And my neighbor was like, wow, you're really kind of decked out. I was like, yes, I'm afraid of snakes. And also. Once me, they're going to have to like really do some traveling. Last year, I got poison ivy in my anus.
Starting point is 00:46:12 It was no. Well, it was close to my anus. Man, that shit will travel. Yeah. And all you can do is pray. That's right. Ask Jesus to take your anus. Anyway.
Starting point is 00:46:28 Similar to taking the wheel. Yeah. Yeah, I got that. It was beautifully done. So he drove and drove and drove back to Murray Bridge and finally got to the Central Olympic Motel where he rented her a room. And I don't know. The Central Olympic motel had nothing to do with this
Starting point is 00:46:54 kidnapping. It's probably perfectly fine. What do you want to say about the Central Olympic hotel here? Well, I mean, they showed the outside of it on 60 Minutes, and I was like, oh, that looks rough. And so then I decided I was going to Google it, found it.
Starting point is 00:47:11 And they got rooms available? It seems like they always have vacancies. But the reviews are pretty good, so it must be cheap. Must be nice. No, it's not nice. I saw pictures. It must be cheap, and it must just be like, yeah, for what it is, you know. It's a pretty good deal.
Starting point is 00:47:29 They have cinder block walls, Brandy. Yeah. Is this a motel? Yes. Okay. All right. Yeah. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:47:36 I mean, it must be like a get what you pay for situation, but people seem pretty pleased. Okay. All right. No interest in staying there? No seem pretty pleased. Okay. All right. No interest in staying there? No, thank you. Okay. Well, I heard they were going to sponsor the podcast, and that's just out the fucking window now.
Starting point is 00:47:55 First, we lose Noom. Yes. Then we lose the Central Olympic Motel. False. Neither one expressed any interest. Anyway, he told her to eventually get on the bus and go to the airport and to wear a hat and lay low and go back home. And then he skedaddled. Really?
Starting point is 00:48:18 Thoughts? He really said that? Yeah. She's just free. She doesn't really think she's free he has scared the shit out of her of course of course he has uh-huh but yeah he's just trying to like he knows it's only a matter of time before he's he gets caught yeah so what'd she do so she still didn't know what to believe. She was so traumatized and scared. She didn't fully trust the police. She didn't trust anyone. She was convinced that if she left the motel room, she might be spotted by someone else from the sex trafficking ring and be kidnapped again. So she stayed in the motel room. But finally, she just got so hungry that she decided
Starting point is 00:49:07 she had to leave and search for food. Okay. 60 Minutes Australia then says that she went out in search of a cafe. And I was like, you know, to me, cafe seems kind of like cute. I'm like, huh, cafe. Okay. Turns out I read in another article she went to McDonald's. Do they just call cafes? Is everything a cafe? She probably got a frappe there. No, come on.
Starting point is 00:49:36 She got a McCafe frappe. No one orders those. And so they're delicious. I've had them. You've had them? Yeah. Caramel frappe. You bet your fucking ass I've had them. I didn had them? Yeah. Caramel frappe. You bet your fucking ass I've had them.
Starting point is 00:49:46 I didn't realize it was time to brag. And they are delicious. What do you pair that with? Do you pair that with the french fries? Do you do a little dip like a frosty? No. No. No.
Starting point is 00:49:55 It's just the frappe. You don't need anything with it. It doesn't require any side dishes. Okay. You just get the frappe. All right. It's nice. I don't know. It doesn't sound like it's for me.
Starting point is 00:50:07 It sounds like there's a lot of sweetener. Oh, for sure. There's whipped cream on it, too, and a caramel drizzle on top of that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you'd hate it. It tastes delicious. You'd hate it.
Starting point is 00:50:24 I'm sorry, it's not your black coffee. It tastes delicious. You'd hate it. I'm sorry. It's not your black coffee. So anyway, she went to McDonald's, which is apparently a cafe. Yeah. On the way back to the motel, an off-duty police officer spotted her and recognized her. And he shouted out her name. So all she remembers from this point is that she was just immediately surrounded by police.
Starting point is 00:50:51 They took her back to the station. They got word to her family in Belgium that she'd been found. Meanwhile, fucking Gene. Goddamn Gene. He ran back home and shaved his head. What's that going to do, Jean? The perfect disguise. You live in a town of a thousand people.
Starting point is 00:51:12 You think that shaving your head's going to... Right. Okay. And then he tried to dispose of evidence. What kind of evidence? Just keep your pants on. Oh, okay. But by the next morning, police were swarming his farm, and no one was more shocked by that than Gene's family. Gene had a whole family?
Starting point is 00:51:32 Yes. Well, what'd they think when he shaved his head? I don't know. He had a wife and kids? Mm-hmm. Gene. So you got a wife and kids? Mm-hmm.
Starting point is 00:51:43 Jean. He has a wife named Jan and a son named David. And I believe that David's girlfriend, Shane, either was living with them at this point or just staying with them. Like, the three of them were around this whole time. Oh, my gosh. And actually, their home was not far from the shed, but it was obscured by a bunch of trees. Yeah. So there was no way for Devine to know that, like, there was this other home. You know, she truly thought she was in the middle of nowhere.
Starting point is 00:52:12 Yeah, completely secluded. Absolutely. So Jean's wife and his son David and the girlfriend Shane are like, what is happening? They're just stunned. And when they – Jean and Jan is very confusing. Well, I doubt they're together anymore. Does that help? I would hope not.
Starting point is 00:52:32 Yeah. Mostly because you're outraged about the names. Yes. David sounds great. Yeah, it's a very unusual name. So when they found out that Gene had been arrested for kidnapping and raping a young woman, the young woman who everyone had been searching for, David in particular was horrified. He had always been very close to his dad, but this was unforgivable. And he was pretty blunt. He said he wonders how often this has happened.
Starting point is 00:53:01 And he was pretty blunt. He said he wonders how often this has happened. Because he was like, my dad was acting totally normal this entire time. There's no way for me to say for sure that this hasn't happened. Who knows how many times. Several times. Yeah. So Gene's poor family was reeling. And in the meantime, investigators were finding all the evidence that he tried to hide. Police found the shackles that had been used on Devine at the bottom of a
Starting point is 00:53:29 well. They found her cell phone in a water tank. They found a fake gun in a paddock, which is a small field where horses do jazzercise. I don't know. I didn't know what a paddock was. I had to look it up. And... I don't think horses do jazz exercise. The really sexy ones do. Oh, okay. You're probably used to seeing ugly horses. Yeah, that's right. I usually hang around ugly horses. The ones who do Zumba. Yeah. All the horses I know
Starting point is 00:53:58 vary into Zumba. I know a couple who still do Taibo. Have you ever done Zumba? No. I don't have the skills. It's pretty rhythmic. I have done.
Starting point is 00:54:10 What? Sweating to the oldies. Oh, Richard Simmons. Love it. Well, yeah. I had it on VHS. Well, yeah, it's a lot less intimidating. When it's on VHS?
Starting point is 00:54:21 Well, when it's like playing in your home, not necessarily. Oh, yeah. Because you guys got to go to a Zumba class. That's what I was thinking. Yeah. I've never met Richard Simmons in person.
Starting point is 00:54:33 Thank you so much for clarifying. You're welcome. As if there's any way that we would get to what is this episode 212 and we would just now be finding out.
Starting point is 00:54:43 Just now finding out that I met Richard Simmons. If you had ever met Richard Simmons that would be like, hi I'm Brandy and one time I met Richard Simmons. That's exactly right. So you know police found all this stuff
Starting point is 00:55:00 that he tried to hide. They of course also found plenty of DNA evidence in the shed. It was all very damning. But Gene wasn't guilty. According to Gene. What, you don't believe Gene? Why wasn't Gene guilty?
Starting point is 00:55:18 Because it was Max all along. No, no. He never brought Devine back to the shed. Okay, so who did? Well, here's the thing. Devine was totally full of shit. Oh, okay, great. So how did all her stuff end up there, Jean?
Starting point is 00:55:37 Well, so later he did have to change his story, I'm assuming, because of the DNA evidence, the pesky DNA evidence. And he admitted that, yeah, he had brought her back to the shed, but that it wasn't his fault. Okay, whose fault was it then? I'm so glad you asked. In letters that he wrote from prison, Gene said that it was his son David's fault. What the fuck did David do? Oh, this is really something. Are you ready for this?
Starting point is 00:56:08 I am. He said that he went out and got Devine because David didn't help out enough around the farm. What? Yeah. Yeah, so he went and hired help, and now she was making up this story. And it was all David's fault because David wasn't helpful enough. Isn't that awful?
Starting point is 00:56:32 That's ridiculous. Go fuck yourself. Okay, I'm going to read to you from one of these letters. And, oh, God, here we go. Okay, great. Can't wait. I want to reassure you both that I'm not guilty of anything. They've only got a pack of lies to go on from the woman claiming to be the victim.
Starting point is 00:56:52 She's doing it for the money. For what money? Yeah, I mean... Stupid. That's stupid. Even if there was money involved. No, she's not doing it for that, buddy. Jean Bristow's trial took place in the spring of 2019.
Starting point is 00:57:15 Prosecutor Michael Foundas painted a picture for the court. He said that Jean Bristow lured Devine to his farm under false pretenses and threatened her with a fake gun. And once he had her in the pig shed, he held her captive and sexually assaulted her repeatedly. Yes. He said this was a premeditated and thought-out plan. Yeah. The prosecution walked the jury through the entire story I just told you about Devine getting free and using her laptop to communicate with her friends and family.
Starting point is 00:57:43 The prosecution also presented evidence that in the days leading up to Devine's abduction, he'd searched for shackles, handcuffs, tasers, and Rohypnol on the internet. Oh, shit. They also showed that he'd purchased the fake gun on eBay. Cool. So the prosecution had a lot of evidence on their side. One might say, why not just plead guilty to this? But the defense had one hell of a story.
Starting point is 00:58:11 Did they? The defense argued that all Gene had done was hire a farmhand. He'd never held her captive. He'd never sexually assaulted her. She'd slept in that pig shed and she was fine with it. She only left the farm because she couldn't handle the work. What? Well, I mean obviously this is bullshit.
Starting point is 00:58:41 Obviously he did this. Yeah. It's not a terrible defense strategy though because how does – but there's proof. Is there proof of the assault on – You know, I didn't see that. Davina. Sorry. Is there proof of the assault on Davina?
Starting point is 00:59:00 I don't think there is. I don't think there is. I think the things that really just make it look bad are the fact that he told so many lies. He took this thing. Yeah. So, I mean, that's the other thing is you just look at this and you go, no, not happening. Yeah. But don't worry. You'll hear more evidence on that theory.
Starting point is 00:59:42 And I can tell you're excited to hear it. evidence on that theory. And I can tell you're excited to hear it. At trial, Gene's son David testified against his father to refute the claim that he'd hired a farmhand. That's what I was going to say. Wouldn't the family know that? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So David said that they'd never advertised for or employed a farmhand because there was never enough work on the property to justify hiring someone. This was referred to in a lot of articles as a hobby farm. So I'm assuming that just means,
Starting point is 01:00:14 you know, the family works the land and that's about all you need to do. Devine also testified in court about all that she'd been through, and on cross-examination, defense counsel Nick Healy accused her of making it up. Cross-examination, defense counsel Nick Healy accused her of making it up. He asked why, when she unchained herself. She didn't run away immediately. She had no idea where she was. Right. She'd also been told it was dangerous.
Starting point is 01:00:39 Well, and it was dangerous. Because here's the other thing is, like, even if you're not in as remote an area as you think you are, like at night you don't know where to go. And you know that someone else knows that at least the general vicinity that you're going to be in. And he knows this land. Go fuck yourself. I just can't imagine asking someone these questions. Seriously. Yeah. He asked why she didn't immediately go to the police when Jean left her at the motel.
Starting point is 01:01:11 Yeah. Wow. I've got something terrible to say. What? My thought when I hear an attorney asking a victim questions like this, especially when it's so clear that she's not making it up. Yeah. I don't really mean this, but I do think it. Boy, that's a.
Starting point is 01:01:39 I wish it upon you. Right. How would you. You have no idea how you would react in this situation. Oh, she did it all wrong. Yeah. I wish it upon you. Right. How would you? You have no idea how you would react in this situation. Oh, she did it all wrong? Yeah. I wish it upon you. Good fucking luck.
Starting point is 01:01:50 Yeah. Hope you do it perfectly. Yeah, exactly. Hope you don't believe anything that's told to you. Hope you don't get scared. And also, she was told, like, I'm part of this big trafficking ring and the police are in on it. So, yeah, she might have been a little nervous to go to the police.
Starting point is 01:02:10 Also, she'd just been horribly, I mean, she'd been horribly sexually assaulted and good God. Yeah. Oh, but you better act the way I think you should act. Don't you dare stop off for a McCafe first. Agreed.
Starting point is 01:02:27 I hope she got extra caramel on her frappe. I hope she got whatever she wanted. Yeah. So Devine responded to these questions that she had been manipulated. She said that she believed Gene when he told her that the police were corrupt. The defense wanted to paint this different picture, though. One where Devine was never held captive, never raped. She just wasn't up to the job.
Starting point is 01:02:52 Here's how that line of questioning went. Yeah, how'd that go? Defense. You said to Mr. Bristow, look, I don't think I can do this kind of work. It's too hot. It's too uncomfortable. And you asked him to find out times the bus went back to Adelaide from Murray Bridge. And you asked him to find out times the bus went back to Adelaide from Murray Bridge. And Devine said, I never helped him with any work.
Starting point is 01:03:12 Yeah. This is infuriating. Yeah. I just cannot imagine saying that to someone. When it came time for the defense to present their case, Gene took the stand in his own defense. Cool. What did Gene have to say? Oh, so many things.
Starting point is 01:03:41 On the stand, he admitted to giving Devine a false name when they corresponded online because, I mean, you really can't deny that. OK. What's that about? What's his explanation for that? Oh, I'm glad you asked. He did it because, quote, you can call yourself what you like online. Oh, he didn't like being Gene. He wanted to be Max, Max way cooler than Gene.
Starting point is 01:03:55 You're about to feel sorry for him. Are you ready? I doubt that very much, but sure. He told the jury, I've been burnt online. The reason I give another identity is to protect myself. Okay, Gene. Yeah, that's rich. Yeah. That is rich. Oh, I'm just trying to protect myself.
Starting point is 01:04:15 Okay. He also had to admit that he'd lied when he told her that he lived in Lamarue. Sorry, there's a bug flying around. I don't know if the mic caught that. I'm like waving my hand around. I thought you farted and it smelled bad and you were like, woo, get out of here.
Starting point is 01:04:32 You couldn't be more wrong. My farts smell great. So he had to admit that he'd lied to her about the location of his farm, saying that it was way further out than it really was. And he also had to admit to lying about his farm being owned by Genesis Incorporated. He had to admit that he'd talked to other young female travelers about how he preferred women farmhands because they were gentler with young cattle than men were. Okay. So, I mean, he had to admit to a lot.
Starting point is 01:05:03 Yeah. But, so all that stuff that she said, that's all true. But when – that's where it is. That's where I draw the line. Yeah, the stuff that we have a record of, yeah. That is all true. So there is that, but – He committed no crimes.
Starting point is 01:05:21 Yeah, is she making all the rest of it up? He said, she was on my property of her own free will, and she left of her own free will. Fuck off, Jean. He testified that he'd never chained her up, and that the reason she wanted to sleep in the pig shed was because she couldn't handle the heat outside. Okay. okay when asked why he didn't tell his wife about the fact that they had a backpacker in the pig shed which i love that question yeah yeah yeah gene explained that they were a private family yeah we're pretty private i don't usually tell my wife anything when i've kidnapped a woman and they're chained up in the pig shed I tend to keep all my terrible crimes to myself.
Starting point is 01:06:09 He said, my wife describes us as a private family. We don't let strangers into our lives very easily. We have been taken advantage of financially. Once again, he's a victim of some. He's been burned online. He's been taken advantage of, blah, blah, blah. Another reason that he didn't tell his wife about the backpacker was that she'd been on his ass about him being unemployed and his wife wouldn't have liked it if she found out that he was spending money on a farmhand. He also told the court that Devine had been content in the shed.
Starting point is 01:06:43 He also told the court that Devine had been content in the shed. He said that Devine knew that his house was just up the lane and that if she needed a shower or anything else, she could just go up the lane. He said if she needed anything at all, she only had to ask. Okay. So did she need to ask not to be sexually assaulted then, Jean? It's also interesting like – so which is it? Because you're saying she could go up to the house anytime with your wife there. But also your wife couldn't know because she'd be mad. Because they're a private family.
Starting point is 01:07:20 Yeah, that's very contradictory. Yeah, that's very contradictory. The jury deliberated for three hours and they found him guilty of aggravated kidnapping, rape and indecent assault. Oh, I like that one. I've never heard of that one before. Indecent assault. I think we have it here, don't we? I've never heard of that.
Starting point is 01:07:42 We have that? I think so. I've heard of indecent liberties. I've not heard of indecent assault. Ba-ba-ba-ba. What's he sentenced to? Hang on. Oh, okay. Is there more before that?
Starting point is 01:07:55 Yeah. Okay. In her victim impact statement, Devine talked about how the crime had changed her. She'd gone to Australia happy and independent and confident, and she'd come back anxious and scared and haunted by flashbacks. Of course. She said, I don't think you should be allowed out of jail. I would never want anyone else to go through what I went through. District Court Judge Geraldine Davison sentenced Jean to 18 years in prison with eligibility for parole after 12 and a half. That seems low to me.
Starting point is 01:08:30 It seems really low. But we live in America and in America, I mean, we lock people up forever. Forever. And we take kidnapping. Kidnapping is an American crime. So it is. I know. It originated in America.
Starting point is 01:08:44 Brandi, you don't have to tell me. You've told me so much about kidnapping on this very podcast. I just I think it's not seen as as serious of a crime. I'm with David on this one of like, we don't know how many times he's done this. Exactly. Especially if you're taking advantage specifically of backpackers. I think that's a pretty vulnerable group of people. Absolutely. The judge told him, your offending has left her as a person who feels she cannot trust others, is uncomfortable and cautious around men, and is anxious and feels unsafe.
Starting point is 01:09:23 No one has a right to make another feel like this. Gene appealed his sentence, but it was denied because he's stupid. That's not really why. That's why. But, you know. Yeah. Davina's still recovering from what she went through. She said that for a long time she couldn't be alone.
Starting point is 01:09:43 She couldn't walk the dog alone. But then one day she could. She started taking self-defense classes and she's trying to cope with all the emotions that come with surviving something so traumatic. She said that initially she felt very ashamed for having been tricked by this predator. Her family had to tell her again and again that it wasn't her fault. Yeah, it's not your fault. Her stepdad, Luke, said something on 60 Minutes that I kind of liked, so I want to read it now. He said, she's not fully back yet, but we can laugh again. There's something broken, and if something is broken, it has sharp edges.
Starting point is 01:10:22 Those edges will become round one day. It will be good good but not the same oh my gosh that's such a accurate way yeah to put it yeah yeah and that's an incredible story of survival oh yeah holy cow i hate that he put her through a trial. So do I. And then just lied. Yeah, you knew you were going away forever. Well, not even forever.
Starting point is 01:10:54 You knew you were going to be found guilty. Yeah. Ugh. Oh. Oh. That was terrible. I'm sorry. But really good.
Starting point is 01:11:14 It was really interesting. I found it interesting too. But yeah, I mean it is just awful. Yeah. I really felt for her so much. She said – she talked a lot about just not feeling safe anymore. How much was taken from her. Well, yeah, and I think that's the – the thing that hits me so hard about that is that she was such an adventurous person, willing to take so many risks and like, yeah, had this amazing, adventurous life.
Starting point is 01:11:50 Yeah. And that was like stolen from her. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to go from being that adventurous to being afraid to walk the dog. Yeah. And she even said that that first day when she was able to walk her dog again, she was still looking over her shoulder. Of course. Yeah. And she even said that that first day when she was able to walk her dog again, she was still looking over her shoulder. Of course.
Starting point is 01:12:08 Yeah. It's just so awful. I think it's really brave that she – I mean she's been very out and open with, you know, like obviously when something like this happens to you, you don't have to put your name to it. You don't have to do anything. Yeah. to put your name to it. You don't have to do anything. But I think it's pretty incredible that she has talked about her experiences and hopefully it helps other people. Yeah. And hopefully Gene can impale himself on a pogo stick.
Starting point is 01:12:37 I don't know. Yeah. I think they have pogo sticks in Australian prisons. Yeah. That's like a main thing. The other funny thing was I guess he's from England originally. And so like part of his punishment is when he gets out of prison, he might get sent back to England. Jolly old England.
Starting point is 01:12:56 Which I – it's like – all right, whatever. I don't know. I'm just so American because I'm like, lock him up. Yeah. Yeah. Forever. Okay. So I've got a terrible story to tell you.
Starting point is 01:13:13 Oh, good. Mm-hmm. Shout-outs to a couple of places. Shout-out to episode of Snapped. Oh, my gosh. Of course. I feel like it's been a minute since I did an episode of Snapped. It's kind of a classic brandy, though. It is a classic of course. I feel like it's been a minute since I did an episode of Snapped. It's kind of a classic
Starting point is 01:13:25 brandy, though. It is a classic brandy. It absolutely is. Also, Jim Fisher, True Crime. He's a blogger and a true crime author, and so got some information from his blog. It was lovely. Very well written. Okay.
Starting point is 01:13:42 And articles for MI Live, which I believe is Michigan Live. Okay. Actually, it's not even MI Live. It's just M Live. But this happens in Michigan. So I believe the M stands for Michigan. It would be hilarious if it didn't.
Starting point is 01:13:58 If it didn't, yes. It was 3.08 a.m. on May 18, 2013, in Jackson, Michigan, when a call came in to the city's 911 dispatch center. The unidentified caller said, there's a man. He's bleeding a lot. He needs help. Just come fast. The caller then gave an address on the city's north side. But when pressed for more information, such as the nature of the man's injuries or her own identity, the caller hung up. The dispatcher, unsure of exactly what was going on, went ahead and dispatched EMS and police to the address the caller had given. And then a moment later, the woman called again. She said, so are you sending an ambulance or what?
Starting point is 01:14:50 Well, how fast did they expect to get there? So the dispatcher was like, yeah, you know, we have an ambulance en route. Can you tell me more about what's going on? Where are you? Who are you? And again, the caller hung up. When first responders arrived at the address given by the mystery caller, they found an older home that had been converted into several small apartments. They found the door to an upstairs apartment standing open, so they went in and they located
Starting point is 01:15:19 a gruesome scene inside the small apartment. There was blood everywhere. The floor, the walls, the ceiling. And there appeared to have been quite a struggle as there were items thrown all over the room and there was like a shit ton of objects that had blood on them. There was
Starting point is 01:15:40 a broken lamp that had blood on it. There was a bent frying pan that was covered in blood. There was a little end table that had a glass top. The table had blood all over it. It was broken. The glass was shattered. body of 38-year-old Marcel Hill. Marcel had been stabbed 11 times with a large knife, and then he'd been sliced from chest to belly. Oh my. He'd also suffered blunt force trauma to his head, and defensive wounds were present all over his hands and arms. Marcel had suffered a horrible death. Investigators knew they needed to speak to whoever had placed those calls to 911, but no one else was present in the apartment. Around that time, though, the woman called 911 again. She asked for an update on the condition of the man in the apartment. Hello, murderer. Yeah, this is ridiculous. She asked for an update on the condition of the man in the apartment. Hello, murderer.
Starting point is 01:16:45 Yeah. This is ridiculous. She asked, can you just tell me if they're taking him to the hospital, please? And the dispatcher. Is she getting sassy yet? I'd be getting a little sassy. So the dispatcher didn't really know what to say, but she was like, okay, ma'am, they have made contact at the address, but they really need to speak to you. Where are you? Who are you?
Starting point is 01:17:11 But again, the caller hung up. By this time, though, police on the scene had a pretty good idea of who the caller was. The mailbox for the address listed two residents. One was Marcel Hill, the man laying dead in the apartment, and the other was 31-year-old Kamiya Gamet, Marcel's girlfriend of a little less than a year. Kamiya had had a really tough childhood. She and her siblings had been removed from their mother's care due to her struggles with addiction. So her mother had been in an abusive relationship with her father. She'd actually left
Starting point is 01:17:52 that, moved the family away from Michigan. She moved to Ohio, I believe, got them away, but then really battled with addiction. And ultimately, the children were removed from her care. And after that, Kamiya entered the foster care system and moved around. Like she spent time in like 13 different foster homes or group homes or institutions. She never stayed in one place long. She was separated from her siblings. By the time she was 16, she left the foster care system and was just like out on her own. She worked jobs here and there and got some assistance from Social Security, but her life was really hard. It was really tough.
Starting point is 01:18:38 She managed to get her GED, but shortly after that, she fell into kind of that same cycle her mother had. She battled addiction and substance abuse and ended up in abusive relationship after abusive relationship. Her brother said she was drawn to the same type of men their mother was. He went on to say that when you grow up seeing your father beat your mother, you start to internalize that as what a loving relationship looks like. Yeah. And so he said – It sucks with what you think is normal. Absolutely.
Starting point is 01:19:12 And so he said that every man Kamiya ended up with beat her. Over the years, Kamiya gave birth to four children and eventually due to her own battles with substance abuse, her children were removed from her care. By 2011, Kamiya was deep in her addiction and she was dealing with a multitude of mental health issues, including a deep depression over losing custody of her children. Yeah. And she ended up serving a year in prison on burglary charges. Yeah. of floated around Iowa and Ohio through the foster care system. And then now she wanted to like start her life over and she thought, I'm going to move back to Michigan. She still had some biological family members there. She was hoping she could reconnect with them. She really just like wanted to get a job, make a life for herself, and then petition to get her children back.
Starting point is 01:20:22 So in the summer of 2012, Kamiya moved to Jackson, Michigan, and she began looking for a job. And that's when she ran into Marcel Hill. She had actually met Marcel years earlier when she was a teenager. So right after she left the foster care system when she was like 16, she'd come back to Jackson, Michigan, hoping at that time to reconnect with her biological family. And it hadn't worked out. She ended up like staying at a drug house and like it just went very badly. Yeah. But it was during that time that she had initially met Marcel Hill. Marcel Hill was a 38 year old man, not when she was a teenager. He's 38 now. Do you think I need to specify that? Yeah.
Starting point is 01:21:06 Okay. Oh, my God. Okay. So when Camille moved back to Michigan in 2012, she's 31. She runs into Marcel. Marcel Hill is a 38-year-old man. He has physical and cognitive disabilities. According to his family, he had suffered from fetal alcohol syndrome, which resulted in cognitive impairments. And then as a child, he contracted meningitis, which resulted in him walking with a very distinct and recognizable limp.
Starting point is 01:21:38 And he also suffered from severe scoliosis. As a result of his disabilities, Marcel was unable to stand long enough to achieve his dream of becoming a chef. And so he supplemented his disability income by working as a line cook at fast food restaurants. Like that was as close as he could get to, you know, the industry he wanted to be in. But Marcel craved normalcy. He wanted a job. He wanted to live on his own. And more than anything, he wanted a girlfriend. Due to his cognitive impairments, though, he would often get overwhelmed by kind of the daily tasks that are required of an adult living independently, such as paying bills and doing laundry.
Starting point is 01:22:26 So he actually got enrolled in some kind of Social Security program where he got a benefit to pay a chore person. So he would get a small amount of money, and that amount of money would be paid to someone who would assist him in completing those tasks. and completing those tasks. I believe that job was being filled by his cousin until Kamiya Gamet reentered Marcel's life in June of 2012. So as I mentioned, Kamiya and Marcel had met when she was a teenager, and then she'd left town, she'd come back. In the summer of 2012, when Kamiya moved back to Jackson, she was like going down the street, and she saw Marcel Hill riding his bike and recognized him immediately, even though like 15 years had passed. I get that.
Starting point is 01:23:11 Do you get that? Yeah, I get it. OK, OK. So she stopped him. They talked. And like in the blink of an eye, they were dating and living together. And Kamiya had taken over as Marcel's paid chore person. It was an arrangement that worked out great for everyone.
Starting point is 01:23:28 Yeah, except you're telling me about it and there was an episode of Snapped about it. Okay, so now we're back to those early morning hours in May when police have responded to those three anonymous 911 calls and they find Marcel Hill brutally murdered in his apartment. And police knew they needed to find this mystery caller whom they believed to be Kamiya Gammon. And they also believed that that person was responsible for the murder of Marcel Hill. Yeah. So I don't know if you know this, but cell phones go ping and towers go pong.
Starting point is 01:24:04 What? And then we'll know your location all the day long, right? You're a genius. They ping the phone that had placed those 911 calls. How the? Triangulate a location. They commenced the triangulation. Commenced triangulation.
Starting point is 01:24:21 And it gave them a spot that was like 25 feet from this apartment well shit it was kind of like a wooded area just like a lot of brush and so they go poking around in there and well you know they found fucking camilla just like hiding in the bushes in the bushes yes well camilla i mean yes so she comes out of there and she has blood all over her clothes. Yeah. And so they. But you know what, though? It makes sense because she kept calling because she wanted to know what was happening.
Starting point is 01:24:57 So it does make sense that she wouldn't go far. Yeah. So they took her into custody at that time and they, you know, took her down to the station to do an interrogation, whatever. She was under the influence of both drugs and alcohol that night. She acted pretty erratically in the interrogation room. She did seem genuinely distressed when they told her that Marcel was dead. Yeah. But it turns out that investigators were somewhat familiar with Marcel and Camille because there was a history of abuse between the couple. There were multiple accounts from friends and family and even a couple of police reports about incidences where Camamiya had been violent towards Marcel. In one incident, she had stabbed him with a knife in the stomach, and then she stitched it up with thread herself.
Starting point is 01:25:59 He'd showed a family member and been like, it was an accident. She didn't mean to. And they were like, you need to get that looked at. He's like, no, it's fine. Oh, gosh. Another time, Marcel had gone to the hospital with a collapsed lung. Oh, my God. What did she do to him?
Starting point is 01:26:19 He told the doctors that he had tripped and fallen down the stairs and landed on a nail and that had caused a puncture wound. But really, Kamiya had stabbed him and punctured his lung. Oh, God. Again, his family members. But they had to know that that couldn't be true because surely a stab wound looks a lot different from a nail going into your lung, right? So his family knew that that wasn't the case. But also it was very classic domestic violence where he was like, well, she didn't mean to do it. It was an accident.
Starting point is 01:26:58 I'm not going to press any charges. And he never – no police report was ever made over that one. The doctors had notes about – Of course they did. I mean, yeah. But again, he was like, oh, you know, I fell down the stairs. Oh, God. Poor Marcel.
Starting point is 01:27:13 Mm-hmm. A third incident actually resulted in a police report where Marcel was hit over the head twice with a hammer by Camille, and he sought medical attention. And at this point, his family was with him, and he told the family members, he told the doctors, that Camille had beat him in the head with a hammer. And then he at that time told them, yeah, that time that I came in with a punctured lung, she had stabbed me. I didn't fall down the stairs. And so at that time, Camille was arrested and actually had been charged with assault and domestic violence. But then Marcel wrote a letter to the court saying he couldn't be sure that it was Camille who did it and that he didn't want to move forward with pressing charges.
Starting point is 01:28:06 Yeah. And so the charges were dropped. Oh, God. I hate these. It's just a very – it's a very typical domestic – cycle of domestic violence. I think that's why it's so sad. Yeah. Is it's so common.
Starting point is 01:28:19 Yeah. Yeah. The only thing here that's not super common is that it's the male who seems to be the victim. So they learn this pretty quickly that there's been reports. Police have been called to this address. They talked to some neighbors that day, too, and they're like, there's always things going on in there. That woman is always yelling and screaming at him. Lots of neighbors had woken up to the sound of some kind of argument that night. And so Kamiya is arrested.
Starting point is 01:28:51 She tells them a story that night while she's being interrogated, but they don't believe her story. Her story is that she had taken drugs and alcohol and then she passed out in the living room. And then she woke up to glass being broken over her head. She was being attacked. The apartment was pitch black. And so she just reached for whatever was around her. And she first grabbed a lamp and she used that to fight off her attacker. Once the lamp broke, she then reached for something else and the closest thing to her was a knife.
Starting point is 01:29:29 And so she hit her attacker three times with the knife and then she managed to get away. She got up, turned the light on and oh no, that's when she found out it was Marcel. Yeah. And so she'd run from the apartment and called 911. Except at first she denied calling 911. She denied that she had a cell phone. Oh, well. So they'd actually recovered only half of the cell phone in those bushes that she was hiding in.
Starting point is 01:29:59 Uh-huh. And she denied that it was hers, denied that she owned a cell phone. And then when they, like, stripped her down, took her clothes for evidence, the other half of the cell phone was in her bra. Yeah, there you go. Yeah. But I've always got half a cell phone in my bra. Just in case of emergency. And I'll be damned if I know whose it is.
Starting point is 01:30:19 That's right. That's right. That's right. So Kamiya was arrested and charged with the murder of Marcel Hill, though she claimed that it was self-defense and that she simply was fighting off killed her partner, the man she loved. And had abused horribly. Abused horribly over the last year. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kamiya's trial started in February of 2014.
Starting point is 01:31:01 In the prosecution's opening statement, the prosecutor laid Kamiya out to the jury as a violent person and a proven liar. They talked about how her statement didn't match up, how she claimed she didn't have a cell phone. They found the cell phone on her. And so the jury was not to believe any of these stories that she was going to tell. And that she had deliberately and knowingly stabbed and slashed Marcel Hill to death.
Starting point is 01:31:31 Because even in her story, she was like, oh, I, you know, hit him like three times to get him off and then I ran. Marcel was stabbed 11 times. Right. On the front and back of his body. And then the knife was run down his body. Oh, God. Yeah. Kamiya's defense attorney, Anthony Reduazo.
Starting point is 01:31:52 Reduazo. You think that's how it's pronounced? Don't ask me anything. Told the jury that, you know, this was just self-defense. That this was just. He should have said self-defense. Self-defense, yeah. That Kamiya had woke up from a drug-induced stupor that night to the sound of shattering glass.
Starting point is 01:32:15 That table had been broken over her head. And she believed that she was being attacked by an intruder. And so she grabbed whatever was around her and she'd used it to defend herself. Her attorney said that Kamiya had acted out of a fear-driven rage. And that she had even, you know, gotten a few injuries herself. Name them. She had like a bruise and then like a little cut. But hadn't like a table been broken over her head?
Starting point is 01:32:54 Yeah, no injuries from that. No like big slash on her face from glass being broken over her head. Boy, isn't that amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty cool stuff. So the prosecution had a bunch of witnesses who testified. One of the people who lived in the apartment with them, or in the apartment building with them, testified.
Starting point is 01:33:20 Her name was Michelle Winters. And so she testified that she heard them fight all the time. She did say that one time she heard somebody in the apartment say, you know, go ahead and hit me. And she couldn't be sure if it was Marcel or Camilla that had said it. But there was constantly arguing and fighting going on inside this apartment. Another resident of the apartment building testified that she lived in an apartment like right across from their apartment. Another resident of the apartment building testified that she lived in an apartment like right across from their apartment. She had a window that kind of looked directly into the kitchen because like her apartment like jutted out and had a window and then their apartment was
Starting point is 01:33:56 back here and had a window so she could look out her window and see directly in their kitchen. And on the night of Marcel's murder, she had woken up to hear glass breaking. This is a rear window situation. She'd gotten up. She'd looked out her window and could see directly into their kitchen. And she saw Marcel Hill cowering on the floor with his hands over his face like Kamiya threw glasses and plates at him. Yeah. Oh, my God.
Starting point is 01:34:26 Mm-hmm. Wait, and she didn't call? So I think that she did call the police. One of the articles said other neighbors also called the police. Okay. That Kamiya's calls were not the only calls that came in to 911 that night. Yeah. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:34:41 The medical examiner testified about all of the injuries to Marcel's body. He had 11 sharp force injuries to his head, chest, back, and arms. Multiple stab wounds would have been fatal on their own. It was impossible to know which one was like the fatal blow. fatal blow. There were also gaping lacerations to Marcel's head, which the medical examiner believed were caused by that frying pan that had blood all over it. So Marcel hadn't just been stabbed. He'd been horribly beaten in addition to being stabbed to death. As part of the programs that Marcel was in due to his cognitive impairments and his disability benefits that he received, he had a caseworker. And that caseworker testified that Marcel had told her about the incident with the hammer some months earlier. And that at that
Starting point is 01:35:40 time, he had also admitted that when he had fallen down the stairs, he hadn't actually fallen down the stairs, that he'd been stabbed by Camilla. And his caseworker had said, Marcel, you have to get out of this relationship. If you don't, she's going to kill you. And Marcel's aunt testified to something very similar that they begged him to get out of this relationship because they feared that Camilla would kill him. God, this is so sad. He wanted normalcy in his life so bad that he made excuses for her behavior. I mean it's just typical domestic violence. Yeah. Stuff where you're like, no, no, no.
Starting point is 01:36:24 She really loves me. She won't do this typical domestic violence. Yeah. Stuff where you're like, no, no, no. She really loves me. She won't do this anymore. Yeah. Yeah. So that was kind of the gist of the prosecution's case. They had the physical evidence. They presented every – they took out every item from the apartment that was found with Marcel's blood on it and showed the jury. These are the items she beat him and murdered him with oh
Starting point is 01:36:46 that night so then it was the defense's turn and they tried to present evidence showing that marcel was a violent offender himself so marcel was a registered sex offender and i don't sorry i don't have any more details on that. All I know is that he was convicted of a second degree felony sexual assault and as a result was a registered sex offender. Okay. So the defense gets up and they want to present all of this evidence about how Marcel has been abusive to Camille previously. I don't know what that evidence was going to be. I didn't find any proof of that.
Starting point is 01:37:30 I didn't find any arrest records. I didn't find anything claiming any previous abuse from him. But this is what the defense cuts up and they want to present. And the prosecution is like, hold the fucking phone here. Like, oh, hold the fucking phone here. You are saying that your defense here is that Kamiya didn't know she was killing Marcel. Kamiya thought she was fighting an intruder. And so if that's the case, no evidence of Marcel being a violent offender is pertinent to this case.
Starting point is 01:38:03 That's really interesting. Yeah. And so the defense is like, no, no, no, it's pertinent to this case. That's really interesting. Yeah. And so the defense is like, no, no, no, it's pertinent to this case. And the judge is like, no, with the defense you are wanting to put forward. Wow. It's not pertinent to this case. It's not pertinent at all. Any kind of previous arrest record or any police reports or anything if you have that stuff.
Starting point is 01:38:30 Again, I don't know if that stuff existed. But the judge is like, no. So you need to think about if this is really the defense route you want to go. So if you want to go that she thought she was fighting off an unknown intruder, you can't present any of that testimony, any of that evidence. And so they took a short recess and the defense conferred with Kamiya and they decided they would move forward with their planned defense that she didn't know who she was fighting that night in that apartment. And so no evidence about Marcel being a registered sex offender or anything like that was allowed at the trial. Instead, Kamiya testified in her own defense. Oh, man. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:39:14 You should talk about her life story a little bit, some of the stuff that I've already told you. She was 31 years old. She was originally born in Michigan and then was removed from her parents' care, spent all that time floating around the foster care system. And then she had returned to Michigan to try and rebuild her life and had just run in to Marcel, who she recognized from when she was a teenager. She said their relationship moved very fast, but she wouldn't necessarily label it a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship. Really? Mm-hmm.
Starting point is 01:39:48 He was someone she loved, and, you know, they'd probably get married eventually. Yeah, on the night of her interrogation, they were like, is that your boyfriend? And she said, no, he's just someone I care about. That's so weird. It's so weird. It's so weird. But she so weird. It's so weird.
Starting point is 01:40:05 But she said they often did drugs together and that she suffered from all kinds of mental health issues. She said that she had been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder, major depression, bipolar disorder, ADHD, and antisocial personality disorder. And that she was on medications for those things. But then also she was on medications for those things. But then also she was a habitual crack cocaine user and that she and Marcel regularly did that together. She did testify that their relationship, however you chose to categorize it, was rocky and that when they were using drugs and when they were drinking, things got physical, but on both sides, they were both physical with each other.
Starting point is 01:40:54 She said that particular day they had been over at Marcel's cousin's house. They'd had a lot to drink. They'd done some drugs. And so when she got back, she just kind of like passed out on their inflatable mattress in their living room. And she woke up to the sound of glass shattering over her head. She said it was pitch black in the room. And she was startled. She was confused. And she could feel someone hitting her repeatedly in the back of the head. Sorry, she said she jumped up and reached for the lamp, but the lamp broke in her hand.
Starting point is 01:41:25 She had intended to turn it on and see who was attacking her, but the lamp broke. And so she just began to swing it around. And that's when she kind of like fell to the ground and she was just feeling for what was around her. And she found her purse. And that's when she felt like she felt,
Starting point is 01:41:44 she felt for her purse she was going to grab her cell phone to like light up the room with her cell phone but right next to her purse was a knife that she had used previously in the day to hang up some curtains what uh-huh that's what she says on the stand how'd she use the knife that's a great question and so she said as she grabbed the knife, she heard a voice, a voice she did not recognize say, bitch, I'm going to kill you. Okay. And so she just started swinging. You know, this is such a good reminder that everyone should go into their living room right now and pick up all the knives they've got scattered around.
Starting point is 01:42:26 Yeah, just have laying around. We shouldn't do that. I know we all do it, but we shouldn't. Yeah. And she said it wasn't until she got away and turned on the bathroom light that she saw it was Marcel that she'd been fighting. She said she tried yelling his name, but he didn't respond. And so she went outside and she called 911. It's amazing that the neighbor across the street or whatever was able to see that it was him,
Starting point is 01:43:00 but she wasn't able to see that it was him. Yeah. Isn't that amazing? Also that she didn't recognize any of the sounds that her boyfriend of a year was making. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, really interesting. She explained that she didn't tell the 911 dispatcher what her name was because she realized that something serious had happened after she saw that it was Marcel and that she just wanted to get help to him as quickly as possible.
Starting point is 01:43:37 She said also the reason that her phone was like half in her bra and half in the woods was not because she was trying to hide it. She just, it broke. And so she picked up the part that she found of it and put it in her bra. Yeah, but why lie about it? Exactly. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:43:59 She said she remembered being taken into custody that night and being taken to the police station, but that she recalls that she was severely injured and nobody offered her aid. The police records show this very differently. She said that she had cuts all over her feet and her legs. They cataloged only small scratches from her being in those bushes. Yeah. And like no other injuries to her body. Certainly no injuries to her head where she said she had been beat over the head multiple times. There's no – there's nothing factual to back up her version.
Starting point is 01:44:35 Sounds like you don't believe her, Brandy. I do not believe her. I do not believe her. She then testified that Marcel was her only source of income as she was his paid chore provider. She said that she'd taken on that position a few months earlier after they'd moved in together and gotten into this relationship, but that he was actually in the process of removing her as his chore provider because his family was encouraging that he separated from her. Yeah. Well, so there's the reason. Exactly.
Starting point is 01:45:14 The most dangerous time to be in an abusive relationship is when you're trying to leave. Yeah. Yep. Ugh. Yep. Oh. Yep. Also testifying for the defense was the father of Kamiya's children.
Starting point is 01:45:36 He said that their relationship was abusive, but it was abusive at his hands. She was never abusive to him. Wow. Yeah. Do you have any thoughts on that um i think that's possible and i think that someone can be abused so many times that they then find someone to be the abuser of i think it's it's likely that camille spent her whole life being abused by someone and then not necessarily sought Marcel out to become a victim but found herself in this relationship with Marcel. Who was a vulnerable person.
Starting point is 01:46:15 Who was a vulnerable person and was like, oh, I don't have to be abused anymore. And it's totally normal for a relationship to be abusive. Every relationship she'd ever been in had been abusive. Every relationship she'd ever seen had been abusive. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think it's just a very, very sad, sad story about how abuse affects people. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:46:40 I also wondered if – because initially I was like, man, I'm surprised he's just admitting that, yeah, I was abusive to her. I wonder if there's some embarrassment about being a man who's being abused potentially. Well, and I think that's the thing that Marcel's family thought about him. So he was embarrassed to admit he was being abused. Yeah. And so he covered it up for several months before he wasn't able to anymore. Yeah. Yeah. And before I think it got to a point where he was really scared.
Starting point is 01:47:15 Sure. Oh, God. Yeah. This is a really fun story. I'm so glad you chose to tell it. Yep. In the defense's closing arguments, Kamiya's attorney told the jury, she is a woman and she is asleep and she is full of drugs and she's full of liquor. Did she react in a thoughtful manner or did she jump up and try to defend herself? That's what the defense said?
Starting point is 01:47:44 That's what the defense said. That's what the defense said. Well, they've just given up. Yeah. He also pointed out that Kamiya didn't try to clean up the scene at all or dispose of Marcel's body in any way. He said if this was a preplanned and premeditated attack, it was a heck of a bad plan. Sure. Yeah. Okay. In the prosecutor's closing arguments, they told the jury, the victim here did not die quickly. He knew his death was coming. He tried to protect himself and flee, but he was no match for Kamiya. He never was a match.
Starting point is 01:48:31 Wow. They continued, she has barely a scratch and he was eviscerated. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, this poor man. The jury deliberated for only a short time before finding Kamiya guilty of first-degree murder. So this was kind of interesting. Kamiya was charged with open murder.
Starting point is 01:48:59 I had never heard of this. I had never heard of that either. So open murder is where they are allowing the judge or the jury, whoever the trial goes in front of, to determine what degree of murder it is. Oh, okay. And so the jury decided on first degree murder. And the prosecution asked for this. They said, you know, Marcel was stabbed 11 times. After the second stab, she could have stopped. After the third stab, she could have stopped. After the third stab, she could have stopped. After the fourth stab, she could have stopped. Each continual stab shows premeditation. She continued to do it.
Starting point is 01:49:31 She continued to carry it out until he was dead. Okay. And so the jury agreed with that and they found her guilty of first-degree murder. Things really went downhill at the sentencing. Okay. In this trial. Kamiya, who had sat pretty quietly through the rest of the trial, was pissed that she had been found guilty.
Starting point is 01:49:57 And she made it fucking known. Okay. Yeah. Fucking known. Okay. Yeah. Marcel's aunt read a victim impact statement in court during the sentencing and she's reading it and she says, I hope you remember the cries of help that he screamed as you plunged the knife in and out of his body. And Camille laughed.
Starting point is 01:50:22 Oh. And rolled her eyes and said, is that it? Oh, shit. Mm-hmm. And the judge looked at her and said, you're going to shut your mouth or you're going to get duct tape put on it. Oh. Woof. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:50:42 Remind me again. What state was this? Michigan. Michigan. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Remind me again. What state was this? Michigan. Michigan. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.
Starting point is 01:50:50 And Kamiya said, he attacked me. I've been convicted on lies. Well, no. It was physical evidence. Physical evidence. Physical evidence. And the judge is like, I will find duct tape. You know what?
Starting point is 01:51:08 This is on the judge because the judge should have had the duct tape. The duct tape ready to go. This judge was unprepared. Marcel's aunt continued her statement. She said, Marcel loved you with all he had to give. And you know as well as we do here that there was no love from you. The only gift you had for him was the gift of death. Oh.
Starting point is 01:51:36 Yeah. Following the victim impact statements, the judge imposed the sentence, which I think is a mandatory sentence. She was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. And when she stood there with her defense attorney, her defense attorney was like, I understand. You know, you're doing what you have to do. It's a mandatory sentence, whatever, blah, blah, blah. And then the judge like, let Kamiya have it. He said, you gutted him in that apartment like a fish.
Starting point is 01:52:09 You were relentless. You stabbed, you stabbed, you stabbed, you stabbed, you stabbed until he was dead. I agree with the family. I hope you die in prison as well. Whoa. And if this was a death penalty state, you'd be getting the chair. Wow. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:52:32 So Camilla appealed her sentence based on – in part based on this outburst by the judge at the end of her trial. But the appeals court ruled that basically she had already been convicted at that point and so played no part in her trial. But the appeals court ruled that basically she'd already been convicted at that point and so played no part in her conviction. And so they denied her appeal. She also appealed based on how they wouldn't let the evidence about Marcel being a registered sex offender and having a violent offense on his record in a trial. And again, the appeals court sided with the district court and said no, that it wasn't relevant to this case based on the defense that you were presenting.
Starting point is 01:53:12 Right, right. This is not the first time the judge, this judge has had outbursts like this. I was going to say, this is a little off the rails. He's kind of known for this behavior. Some people have called for his removal because of it because a judge should be more professional than that. Yeah. Yeah, less biased than that. But he has shrugged it off and he said, sometimes I think a judge needs a little fire. And also I'd like to point out that I found an article that said that he's run unopposed in the last two elections.
Starting point is 01:53:46 So that is the story of domestic violence. What do you think about that, Judge? I think he's out of line. Yeah. Yeah. I think you're required to be way more professional than that as a judge. Yeah. to be way more professional than that as a judge.
Starting point is 01:54:03 Yeah. Yeah, I think he ran a real risk of this conviction being overturned because he did that. I get that the appeals court sided with him in this case, but he also did some stuff throughout the trial, which is allowed but kind of frowned upon. He questioned witnesses. Oh. Which is allowed. But it's supposed to be really like you're only supposed to clarify stuff for the jury. Never ask additional questions.
Starting point is 01:54:33 It seems like he pushed that. Did whatever the fuck he wanted. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting to hear someone go off on somebody like this. I also think the other side of me is you have a woman who's just been convicted of murder being disrespectful to the victim's family. And I think it would be really difficult to hold your tongue on that moment. But it's your job.
Starting point is 01:55:00 It is your job. It's absolutely your job. It's your job. It is your job. It's absolutely your job. It's your job. And I guess it's funny. You're kind of taking one stance. My stance is more that like it concerns me to see someone be so black and white about an issue. Although I think of course she did this and you know there's no question and she shouldn't be having that kind of reaction to the victim impact statement blah blah blah but
Starting point is 01:55:31 hey this stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum no you know like that was generational trauma for her. That was like her whole life led to that. And I think that's the other thing that's so tough about domestic violence cases is there's not always going to be a perfect victim. Well, that's exactly it. That's exactly it. I mean, I think there's – Camille was a victim her whole life too. Yeah. And so, yeah, I mean – yeah, there's – Marcel did not have to be a perfect person for this to be a horrible murder.
Starting point is 01:56:13 Right. Yes. And it's OK if a part of you feels terrible for Camille's life because this was learned behavior to her. She was taught this is what relationships look like. This is what love looks like. And it's just terrible all the way around. Ugh.
Starting point is 01:56:33 Yeah. Boy, oh boy. Yeah. It's a complicated one. I've got complicated feelings. You know what I think we should do now? Should we take some questions from our Discord? That was a pregnant pause.
Starting point is 01:56:54 Sorry, look at this picture I just got of my baby. She's watching TV. That's so cute. The way you get into this Discord is you sign up for our Patreon at the $5 level or higher. You get access to all the old bonus episodes. And you get into the Discord to chitty chat the day away and ask questions for the end of our episodes. Ooh, the Grace Kelly of not giving a fuck wants to know, okay, ladies, very controversial. Drums or flats?
Starting point is 01:57:23 I'm all flats. I hate the cartilage on a drum. Are we talking about buffalo wings? Yeah. I'm all drummies all the way. I don't like flats at all. I love flats. That's why we're such good wing friends.
Starting point is 01:57:36 That's right. That's exactly right. We can split a plate of wings without any animosity. No arguments at all. Okay. Hold the fucking phone here. Mm-hmm. Mel Bell says, no question,
Starting point is 01:57:54 but my sister Haley, who introduced me to LGTC, had her baby on Sunday. Congratulations to the Pounds on welcoming their new little baby boy into the home. Is your sister's last name Pounds? No fucking way. What's wrong with that? Is your sister's last name Pounds? No fucking way. What's wrong with that? That is not a common name.
Starting point is 01:58:09 All right. I'm sorry. Everyone, that's Brandi's maiden name. That's my maiden name. That's my family name. Are we related? Mel Bell, reach out, please. Also, congratulations to your sister on her new baby.
Starting point is 01:58:23 Congratulations on the new baby. Boy, Jesus. Sorry. Peg, the watch are same. Y'all have any wedding planning tips? I'm in the throes and very stressed about it. As am I, Peg. I have no tips. Are you a real stressed woman?
Starting point is 01:58:41 I'm a little stressed. I feel like I have a lot of decisions to make. Okay. And I need to make them like two weeks ago. So what's up there? I mean, what's like – I still – I got to book – oh, I got to book so much stuff still. Okay.
Starting point is 01:58:56 I got to book a DJ. I got to book a wedding. I've got an old iPod. No, we're not doing that. We're doing like a fancy little wedding. It's a fancy iPod. No, we're not doing that. We're doing like a fancy little wedding. It's a fancy iPod. No, I don't think it is. I do stuff I've got to book still, and you've got to book that stuff in advance.
Starting point is 01:59:12 So I need to do it now. It's fine. I'm getting stressed right now. Anyway, good luck, Peg. I hope this has helped. I'm sure it did. Boy, Peg, you going to use some of those tips there? Are you?
Starting point is 01:59:29 All right. Ew. Caroline is okay. Asks, have you ever made congealed salad? Does that just mean like a jello salad? Is it a jello salad? Why would you say it that way? Don't call made congealed salad? Does that just mean like a jello salad? Is it a jello salad? Why would you say it that way? Don't call it congealed salad.
Starting point is 01:59:49 You know what that makes me think of? What? Blood. Oh, yeah. Blood congeals. Sure does. Do you remember when you brought that congealed salad? No.
Starting point is 02:00:01 I've never brought congealed salad anywhere. People were horrified it was just a couple old tampons that is disgusting there was blood everywhere fierce mama llama wants to know which case would you each love to cover but are held back by the lack of court stuff there are two cases that i've wanted to do for forever, but they're not really cases. Yeah. There's not much to them. What do you got?
Starting point is 02:00:29 OK. I am fascinated by Rachel Dolezal. Oh, yeah. The white lady. Yeah. Who became like the head of the NAACP in Washington. Yeah. And who pretended to be black.
Starting point is 02:00:44 That is wild to me. Yes. Also a wild one. You know that story about the lady who pretended to be in the World Trade Center? Oh, yes. Yeah. And like she would one up people when they were telling their survival stories. Yeah.
Starting point is 02:01:00 Yeah. Those are those are the ones where I'm like, oh, gosh, I wish there was court stuff because I would cover the shit out of that. Cover the shit out of that, yeah. What about you? Is there stuff like that for you? Oh, I mean, there's like a million unsolved murders that I'd like to cover because I find them interesting. Sure. Yeah.
Starting point is 02:01:15 But we don't have time for all of that. Very on brand that yours are all murders and mine are just like, this lady lied. There's one that I really want to cover that's tied to a reality show. What is it? Hold on. I've got to look up the name of the show. Okay. Milf Island.
Starting point is 02:01:32 I know some of you will get that. You're welcome for that hilarious joke. Okay. It was called Megan Wants a Millionaire. Hmm. It was like a VH1 reality show. It was like a dating. It was like a bachelor style dating show.
Starting point is 02:01:49 And there was a murder and then a subsequent suicide. So the case never went to court. Yeah. But it's so interesting. Did one of the guys murder the woman? Is that? Did they? Oh.
Starting point is 02:02:08 Okay. I gotcha. I gotcha. All right. I'll stop asking questions. Nancy Drew asks, are either of you clean freaks? If so, do you have tips for keeping the house clean? Oh, my God.
Starting point is 02:02:21 No. David is a neat freak and he keeps our house clean. Get yourself a David. But not her David. No, not mine. He's taken. I have a need for things to be perfect. Yeah. At all times. Yep. And so that's what really drives me. Yeah, I have that same need. Uh-huh. Yeah. It's debilitating. Uh-huh. Yeah. It's debilitating. It's terrible. It is. Did I tell you about how freeing it was when, like, several months ago, I decided, like, you know what?
Starting point is 02:02:55 The blankets on the basement couch, I'm not going to fold them every day. Can it be done? They're just going to look look messy and that's fine this has been a wild revelation for me yeah baby steps that's very good
Starting point is 02:03:16 because here's the thing if your house doesn't look perfect all the time people know you live there and you're failing on an epic level. Sealed with a queef asks, when did you have to start doing household chores and did you get paid? What chores did you hate?
Starting point is 02:03:35 I had to take out the garbage and the neighbor's dog always ripped the bag open and I had to clean the garbage up. I think for like my general chores, keeping my room clean and taking my laundry down to be done, that's stuff I was not paid for.
Starting point is 02:03:51 But I mowed the grass and I got paid for that. I remember mowing the grass. It's one of her many passions. I do. I love mowing the grass. Oh, you can't do it anymore. No, I don't have my own grass to mow now.
Starting point is 02:04:06 Oh, tragic. You can come over here. Maintenance provided. Oh, what a bunch of bullshit. You watch those folks just riding by on the lawn.
Starting point is 02:04:16 I mowed this morning and I was like, they were smiling the whole time, weren't they? Yeah, no, Kyle and I always had chores.
Starting point is 02:04:23 I mean, for as, kind of as long as I can remember. And we always got like a little allowance of just a couple hundred dollars a week. Stop it. So Jackson is eight and he has two chores. I was going to say two chores, but now I can only think of one chore.
Starting point is 02:04:41 Anyway, he just has to feed the dog. And so that's his short when he's at our house and he gets paid $2 a week to do that. I think you're ripping him off. I'd like to talk to him. I'm trying to think of the ones I hated. I hated dusting. Dusting is my
Starting point is 02:04:59 least favorite chore. To this fucking day, I hate dusting. I hate fucking dusting. Dusting can suck a dick. Yeah. Hate dusting. Also, you know how my mom was on Saturday mornings. Oh, yeah. She would go on a cleaning spree. Yeah. Hmm. It was almost as
Starting point is 02:05:16 if her self-worth was determined by how clean the house was. Uh-oh. We're really uncovering stuff. Oh, no! Oh, no! But yeah, so Kyla and I would have to lay low. We would be so hungry Saturday mornings because we wouldn't want to go downstairs and be spotted. Oh, my Lord. Dixie Norma says, Kristen, I bought a bra this week and no shit paid $190 for one.
Starting point is 02:05:45 The salesperson said it's good to have at least seven. Seven? Guess I need to start my OnlyFans. Yeah, you better get that shit started up. You're going to buy $790 bras. $190. What does it do? You better have, like like fucking lights on it and just like letting off like pshh pheromones.
Starting point is 02:06:11 And also inside it's got an interior cooling system so I never get titty sweat. Here's the thing. It's probably one of those things that if I tried one on, I'd be like, I can never go back. I can never not have a $190 bra. I've never paid even close to that for a bra. No. I mean, yeah, I think it goes without saying that I haven't. Mine are just strapped in with masking tape right now.
Starting point is 02:06:34 Holy shit. Dixie Norma, congratulations on your swell boob game. Oh, this is a good one. Shut up about it. It says, Kristen, what are your best cleaning hacks picked up from the queen of clean, a.k.a. your mom? Oh, boy. Your mom does have all the tips. She has all the tips.
Starting point is 02:06:59 But, like, I never paid attention to any of them growing up. So, like, when they lived with us for a couple months last year, I remember all of a sudden my dishes looked better. It's like, what'd you do? She had like, I don't know. She'd done something to get this. See, I still can't tell you. She'd taken the scratches out. She washed my walls, which is something I've never done.
Starting point is 02:07:20 I've never washed my walls. She polished like the baseboards and stuff. I mean it's one of those things like you walk in and you go, oh my gosh. It looks good in here. I don't know. I don't know what's different. And the difference is Sheree Ray has gone to town on your house. That sounds terrible.
Starting point is 02:07:37 Anyway. It does sound terrible. Sheree Ray is not going to appreciate that at all. She will not. Oh my god. She texted me something today. It was about your case. I hope.
Starting point is 02:07:49 She texted me at 9-11 this morning. A person with a balloon fetish is called a lunar. And then she sent three balloon emojis. And I said, is this a mom joke? And she goes, check your Wikipedia. What does that mean? She's not making it up. It's real life shit.
Starting point is 02:08:12 Straight from Sharae Ray. I said, how do you know this? And she goes, Google to see if there's such a thing as a balloon fetish. And there is. Did she find that picture of me? I'm sure she did. For the record, people seem to think that I actually am in fetish porn now. No.
Starting point is 02:08:31 She was in fetish porn. No. She's not in it now. No. Not currently. No. Just obviously that guy had some weird intentions when he took my picture. And that was the joke that I was making to deal with those weird feelings.
Starting point is 02:08:41 picture and that was the joke that I was making to deal with those weird feelings and the feelings got even weirder when we saw her on that message board anyway we've got to wrap this up because we've got a zoom call to get to we're very popular
Starting point is 02:09:01 I'm so popular so that means we need to get to the Supreme Court inductions. I'm being a DJ over here. I'm going to the bottom of my page. Oh, I was like, what the hell are you doing? Oh, boy. Maybe you could be your own DJ at your wedding. You ever think of that?
Starting point is 02:09:22 No. But think on it a little. No. Okay, but consider it. No. All right. I'm not considering it. It's free.
Starting point is 02:09:30 What is this, episode 212? I think so. Okay, I don't see your little pink Kristen anywhere. I am really struggling. I'm going about as slowly as possible. I thought it wouldn't take me that long to get down here, but yet here I am talking. Because you weren't DJing it. Yeah.
Starting point is 02:09:44 How about I tell people how to get inducted? Why don't you make yourself useful? To get inducted on this podcast, all you have to do is join our Patreon at the $7 level or higher. And we'll, you know, induct you. That's how it works. So this week we're going to continue to read your names and favorite cookies. Morgan. Sugar cookies with cream cheese icing
Starting point is 02:10:05 and strawberries on top. That sounds fucking delicious. Jen S. Iced sugar cookie. Janine K. Wrangler. Oatmeal rice crispy cookie from Cowboy Cookie. Oh, okay. Excuse me. Keely. White
Starting point is 02:10:21 chocolate and stem ginger. No. No, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Keely. White chocolate and stem ginger. No. No, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Keely. No. White chocolate ruins everything. Jillian. EL fudge double stuffed elf cookies. They're so fucking good.
Starting point is 02:10:37 Are you supposed to include the elf? They're not elf cookies. They are elf cookies. I know that's part of the brand, right? No, they are shaped like elves, Kristen. They are literally elf cookies. They are elf cookies. I know that's part of the brand, right? No, they are shaped like elves, Kristen! They are literally elf cookies! Ma'am, I'm going to have to ask you to be more professional. You're being like that judge in your case.
Starting point is 02:10:53 You're just freaking out. I will put duct tape on your mouth! Say elf again! I happen to know that you don't have any duct tape around. Katie Acevedo. My mama's almond pizzelles. Sweet Haley Grace. Chocolate Chiappa.
Starting point is 02:11:12 Haley Price. Taylor Swift's chai tea eggnog cookies. They're so good, I promise. I mean, that probably is good. Spicy. Yeah, I mean, it probably is. Taylor Swift. What's Taylor Swift doing making cookies?
Starting point is 02:11:24 Yeah, I'm skeptical. probably is. Taylor Swift. What's Taylor Swift doing making cookies? Yeah, I'm skeptical. Song. Chocolate chip cookies. Did you know they were a mistake? Someone tried to make chocolate cookies and ended up with the chips inside that we all love instead. I did not know that. They thought it would melt into the dough and it would just be a chocolate cookie. But the chips stayed intact and thus was born the chocolate chip cookie.
Starting point is 02:11:45 You love presenting trivia. K. Oatmeal raisin. Kristen. White chocolate macadamia. Yummy. Christmas sugar cookies. Haley.
Starting point is 02:11:57 Homemade chocolate chip M&M cookies. Scam likely. My best friend. Frozen thin mints. Greasy. Salted caramel. Sarah Marshall. Double chocolate chip.
Starting point is 02:12:12 Trying to forget her. I'm sure she's never heard that. Sharna. Chocolate no-bake cookies. Killian. Girl Scout cookies. Toasties. Oh, those are the new French toast ones?
Starting point is 02:12:26 Toast-yays? Toast-yays. What? Toast. They're the new ones. They look like little French toasts. All right, they sound delicious. What the French?
Starting point is 02:12:35 Toast? Okay. Oh, look, embarrassed at me. You lit liquor? What? Who you calling a cootie queen? What is that? It's from an Orbitz commercial like a million years ago.
Starting point is 02:12:53 Do they just advertise for gum on TV? Yeah, there's a wild time. You don't like gum. You're not a gum person. You think gum's disgusting. We have not welcomed them into the Supreme Court. Welcome to the Supreme Court. Welcome to the Supreme Court!
Starting point is 02:13:08 You know, they also used to advertise soap on TV all the time. You remember? You're not fully clean unless you're zestfully clean. Yeah, I remember. And then the Lever 2000, you gotta clean all your 2000 parts. And then the Irish Spring ones were like standing in a fucking waterfall. Why don't they do soap advertisements anymore?
Starting point is 02:13:23 Are people still buying soap? Not me, I'll tell you that. Big soap doesn't have me. Big soap will never have me. I have vivid memories from those old commercials of like a really buff dude with just the bar of soap. Yeah, zest. You're not fully clean unless you're zestfully clean.
Starting point is 02:13:45 You know. Anyway, they still make zest, but don't do commercial sport anymore is what I'm saying. Yeah. It is weird. Yeah. Also, Caress. Don't you remember those Caress commercials? Oh, they were very sensual.
Starting point is 02:13:59 They were. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Let's all take a moment and think about that. Anyway, thank you, everyone, for all of your support. We appreciate it so much. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media.
Starting point is 02:14:12 We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Patreon. Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen. And then head on over to Apple Podcasts. Leave us a five-star rating and review. And then be sure to join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned!
Starting point is 02:14:33 And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web, and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. I got and paste from the best sources on the web, and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. I got my info from reporting by
Starting point is 02:14:49 Rebecca Opie for ABC Australia and an episode of 60 Minutes Australia titled Backpacker Kidnapped and Shackled and Abandoned Pig Shed by Madman. That would have given it all away. It sure would have. I got my info from an episode of Snapped, articles for MLive.com, Medium, The Court Record, Jim Fisher True Crime, and Murderpedia.
Starting point is 02:15:10 For a full list of our sources, visit LGTCpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.