Let's Go To Court! - 222: The Hell House & a Normal Death

Episode Date: August 10, 2022

Kristin really did the Lord’s work this week by bravely sitting through an entire episode of Obsession: Dark Desires. (Please clap.) Between the terrible reenactments and over-the-top Southern accents, the Grace Kelly of podcasting nearly lost her will to live. But she couldn’t stop watching the story of a new homeowner named Kisha Kelly, who was harassed for years by her home’s former owner. Then Brandi tells us about a… totally normal death. When Randy Baker was discovered dead in his home, it looked like perhaps he’d died from a heart attack. But this is a Brandi case, so we all know that can’t possibly have been true.   And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Home Sweet Hell” episode of Obsession: Dark Desires “Obsession with house he lost was death of Dallas man,” by Selwyn Crawford and Tanya Eiserer for The Dallas Morning News In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “The Secret Keepers” episode Dateline “Follow That Car” episode On the Case with Paula Zahn “Did A Substance Abuse Counselor's Troubled Past Lead To His Murder?” By Jill Sederstrom, Oxygen “Police: Greeley man's family conspired to kill him” by Cassa Niedringhaus, The Coloradoan “All in the family: Greeley man’s murder featured on Dateline” by Janet Oravetz, NBC 9 News “Greeley Woman Gets 30 Years in Prison for Plotting Brother's Murder” Weld County DA “Woman Sentenced to Life in Prison for Plotting Husband's Murder” Weld County DA YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 37+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts! I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court! On this episode, I'll be talking about a hellish home. And I'll be talking about a totally natural death.

Nothing suspicious here. Hmm. Totally natural. Is a staircase involved? No, but a staircase involved? No, but a foal? Okay. Okay.

I like those oh, I just fell and died, you know. Well, the people rarely say I just fell and died. No, someone just said what I said. Oh, is that what you said? Okay. Apologies. Thank you. I know no one says I fell and died unless you get a Ouija board going. This is an After Dark episode. Yeah, obviously.

Did we ever play with a Ouija board? Yeah, I think we had a – we dabbled with a Ouija board. Yeah, we were disappointed. Yeah. The spirits weren't interested. No, the spirits did not answer. Not the least little bit. We, the spirits did not answer. We called and there was no answer.

Yeah, everyone, this is an after dark episode for a real fun reason. Norm and I are taking off early tomorrow morning to go help a sick relative. It's all good, though. I've got a bitch of a friend in Brandy here who said, fine, okay, we'll rearrange the week. I don't like it, but I'll do it. I'll do it. God damn it. Oh, no.

Do you think that's sad? She left her toy in here. These dogs have a million fucking toys. Okay, fine. I mean, like, just. Okay. The other day, Henry was over here

and he said, these dog toys are ridiculous. He is 17. That was very cute. Hey, tell the people who signed up for our Patreon,

Kristen. Oh, you can't be bothered? No. David just sent me a picture of my baby, so I have to look at that real quick. Oh. Hey, everyone. Brandy's baby doesn't have clothes. That's not true.

Don't tell people that. Brandy's baby is very hungry. No, also not true. She's just fine. This Patreon ads get real dark. For just $5 a month. You could sponsor

my baby. What's in it for you, you ask? Well, that's a horrible question, but we will answer it. You get immediate access to 37 bonus episodes. Woo! Full-length meaty boys, I tell you.

That's right. Plus, you get into the Discord to chit and chat and chit and chat. And then, yeah, if you want to chat, then there's some chitting going on as well. Ew, no chitting. We don't have the cleaning supplies. At the $7 level, that's the Supreme Court. Oh, wow. I had tea in my mouth.

Uh-huh. Anyway, we're professionals. That's right. That's the level where you get Zoom calls with us. That's right. We played Pictionary last month. It was a great time. It turns out I am quite a talented artiste.

She invented a superhero named Anal Man. No, it was Anal Face. That's what everyone dubbed him. Turns out I'm not good at drawing. Your drawings were wonderful. Turns out Spider-Man looked like Anal Face, which is a thing. Maybe we should put those pictures up. Show people what they missed.

Also at that level, you get a sticker. Yeah. Put that puppy wherever you want. That's right. You can put it right on your anal face. Okay. There's only one anal face in this world. And he fights crime.

It'd be terrible if he put a sticker over his face. What's his shootout? Obviously juices. What did you think the answer was going to be? Like best case scenario, what did you think? Farts? He's got like noxious gas that comes out and he like

Okay. Yeah, that's actually much more Yeah, that's much more reasonable. I was thinking like a dog's anal glands. But we have no reason to think that anal face is part dog. No. No.

I think he's part man, part anus. Yeah. Mostly anus, really. Anyway. Also at that level, have we gone through all this? You conducted on the podcast. Yeah, that's right. Let everyone know that you listened to this podcast.

That's not embarrassing. Yeah, you'll want people to know. And at the $10 level. That's the Bob Moss level. That helps London. Get a yacht. She's saving up. $5, she gets a pair of pants.

$7, she gets some carrots for dinner. $10, she gets that yacht she's had her eye on. For a couple years now. That's right. That's how you get episodes a day early. And ad free. Oh my oh me. Also 10% off.

My oh me. Is that how you say it? Yeah. My oh me. Me oh my. Oh that is what they say. We haven't done an After Dark episode on

the regular feed in quite a while usually they're the bonus episodes yeah everyone these are a little too relaxed yeah this is giving you a little

taste of what our bonus episodes are like so I guess if you hate this then yeah don't sign up for the patreon

if you're feeling this yeah there's more of this on the patreon giddy on up and giddy on out to the patreon oh my oh me oh as they say um did i say 10 off you didn't but i'm glad you said it now that's also at the ten dollar level longest ad ever uh anything on your mind? No. What about your butt? No. Pants? Underwear?

You almost said no. The people would know that wasn't true. I've got a question for you. What? I realize this is bad timing because I'm supposed to start my story now, but I thought of this earlier in the week and I was like, I have to ask. Yeah. Okay. You've gotten massages before. Like I thought of this earlier in the week and I was like, I have to ask. Yeah. Okay. You've gotten massages before. Yeah.

And you're never nude. Yeah. They always say like disrobe to your comfort level. I leave my undies on. I take my bra off. Wow. But I do leave my undies on. Okay. I'm surprised.

There's – okay. So there's something about like they put the sheet on you and they only remove it strategically as they're working on an area so I'm comfortable with that. The first like three times I got massages I wore shorts. Oh really? I did and then I was like okay this seems unnecessary and I'd really like my legs to get massaged

like a little higher up so Were these Bermuda shorts? I mean they were like basketball shorts. Yeah. So that first time you came in. I think the very first time I wore basketball shorts and a sports bra. And I was like.

And a sports bra, too. I mean, I might as well have a fucking turtleneck and long johns on. Yeah, you really might. Yeah. How are they supposed to work around that sports bra? And also, I didn't take my hair down. So then I didn't get, like, a scalp massage. Yeah. Boy, you fucked up big time.

I did. Mm-hmm. All right. Well, I'm glad we had this discussion. See, if this were an episode at our normal time and not 8 o'clock at night, I would have said, you know what? I'll wait until later. Now's not the time. Simply not the time. But no, now not the time. Simply not the time.

But no, now is the time. Now is the time. You ready for my story? I am. Let's talk about a hellish home. You put hellish in all caps. I mean, this is bad. This is bad.

Oh, shit. I mean, no, no. You know what? Actually, by our standards, it's not. It's really not. We've had some bad ones lately. Yeah, we sure have. Okay.

Shout outs to. Basically, this comes from two sources. I don't know why I said basically. It comes from two sources. One of them quite good, okay? Okay. Not the other one? No, hated the other one.

Oh, okay. Fucking hated the other one. What was it? Well, you don't think I'm about to tell you? Oh, okay, great. Okay. So the good one? No, hated the other one. Oh, okay. Fucking hated the other one. What was it? You don't think I'm about to tell you? Okay, great. So the good one that I liked, oh, everyone, she made a face like I walked in for a massage in a sports bra and basketball shorts

like some freak. I do wonder what the massage therapist thought because I swear I had one of them. I got a massage and I had I wore I was still wearing the shorts right yeah yeah the girl like the massage therapist pulled like the sheet up so then you know to like the backs of my legs yeah and I swear she saw my shorts and she went like like on my butt and then like immediately covered it back up.

Yeah, I bet she was like, okay, this is a signal to her comfort level. Yes. Which is not real high. Yeah. I don't know why she treated your ass like a turntable there. She did. That's exactly what it was like. I think she felt like, well, I pulled the sheet back.

I've got to do something. I think that's exactly what it was. It'd be weird if I was just like, no. Glad we had this discussion. Okay, tell us about your sources. The one I liked came from the Dallas Morning News. You liked it? No, I can tell you liked it because it's a News. Oh, yeah. You like it?

No, I can tell you liked it because it's a newspaper article. Is the other one a show? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know how I am. An ID show, I'm guessing. Yes!

Oh, my God! Okay, the article was by Selwyn Crawford and Tanya Iserer for the Dallas Morning News. Okay. Good stuff. Good stuff. Good stuff. Good stuff. Quality stuff. Mm-hmm.

The TV show that I hated, fucking hated. Too many reenactments. It was all reenactments. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Do you want to take a guess at what this was? It's one of their dumber ones. I don't think even you like this show.

That sounded like an insult to your intelligence. No, it's just that I usually like these programs. No, which one was it? It was an episode of Obsession. Dark Desires! I don't care for that show. No, it's terrible. I've used it as a source before.

Well, here's the funny thing. I remember you used it as a source, and, you know, you're a touch more polite than me. So you were like, I have to admit, I didn't really like the program. Well, hated it. Episode was called Home Sweet Hell. Oh, that's stupid. Listen, if you're upset about that, wait until we get into it. Okay.

I'm sorry. This first part, I have to shit on this program some more. First of all, I do want to thank the program for bringing this story into my life. Okay. If I hadn't seen the program, wouldn't know this story, and it is an interesting story. Okay. All right. Compliment adjourned.

No, I have so many things that I could say about this. Okay. I didn't write most of them down because I thought, you know what? If I forget some, that's probably a blessing for everyone. Starting off with the thing that just hit me right off the bat that I did not like. Okay. So the main person in this story is a woman named Nakisha Kelly. She goes by Keisha. Obviously, because she's on a show called

obsession dark desires you know something terrible happens to her okay she showed up for this interview you know looking like she's there to be interviewed yeah on tv yeah okay which is all i ask of people. That's right. No hoodies. Oh, yeah. And wear your fucking shoes. Yeah. Don't take your shoes off. Also, why is your hair terrible?

Like, there's so many questions. Okay. Keisha, she's wearing this cute orange top. Okay. Bright blue pants. Adorable wedges that have, like, stripes of orange, blue, and red. Clearly very well thought out. She's gotten her hair done.

Her makeup is done. She has on nice jewelry. Okay. You picturing? Yeah. Where do you think this interview took place? In a Burger King bathroom. You wish.

You fucking wish. Where did it take place? For this woman's interview, they had her on a fold-out chair. Uh-huh. Okay, like, you know. Like a metal folding chair. Yes, like everyone's gathering around for Sunday school and everybody grab a chair. In what I swear to you is a kill room.

Well, it's obsession, dark desires. Okay, no, no, no, no. I knew you would say that. I knew you'd say it. Here's the fucking thing. This woman has been through enough. Then you take her and put her in a kill room? Do you?

It's not possible. No, no, no. It's not CGI. That's what I'm asking. She's not in a green screen and they put a background behind her. No. No. She's in a – no.

No. They don't have the budge at IG. I mean even Zoom puts on a nice background for you. I don't think it's real expensive to put yourself a little dungeon background. May I describe to you this fucking place? I had this one. Was it on that? Is it look like it came off of that Netflix show?

What Netflix show? You know, that sex room. Those sex rooms are very tasteful in that show. Excuse me. You wish. You wish she was in there. I mean, it wouldn't really make sense for the show. But like, I mean, it's all very well done.

Uh-huh. Anyway, that's a whole other topic of discussion. No. They had her in, like, what appeared to be an abandoned house. We're talking exposed laugh boards on the wall, leaves on the floor, water stains running down the drywall, mold on the wall. Leaves on the floor. Water stains running down the drywall. Mold on the kitchen counters. What?

It was disgusting. How much B-roll of the surroundings is there? A lot, Brandy. Okay. Because they were lazy assholes. They only interviewed her. And then they cut to terrible reenactments. Like, terrible.

I'm familiar with the program. So, like, they do a shot of her. And then they'd zoom out. And it's like, oh, great. You brought this victim of something terrible into a house with nothing in it but a fold-out chair and leaves. And then they'd, like like zoom out even further from another angle and you see like a kitchen

covered in God knows what and like all the cabinets are open just to show you this terrible place. Okay. Should I go ahead and start the story? I think we all are picturing. We've got it. We've cut it in our minds. Are you as outraged as me? Okay. Should I go ahead and start the story? I think we all are picturing.

We've got it. We've got it in our minds. Are you as outraged as me? I think I'd have to see it to be as outraged as you are. I do think it's a weird choice because usually they do it like in a conference room at a hotel. Does seem odd. Yeah. I've got rough opinions. Okay.

You know what? I'm just going to say it. Okay. I can guess. What? What is my opinion? I don't want to say it. Say it and we'll cut it.

My guess is that Keisha is a black woman and that had she been a white woman, they would not have put her in this setting. Ding, ding, fucking ding, Brandi. Yes. Oh. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. But I'm just thinking. No, I don't think they would. no, I don't think they would.

Yeah, I don't think so either. I think you put a white woman in that same scenario. She's done her hair. She's done her makeup. She's dressed cute. She's been through something horrible. I don't think they put her in a fucking abandoned house. Yeah.

Yeah, I think you're probably right. There's the crime. I'm done with my story. I love that you knew my opinion. I bet half the fucking listeners knew my opinion. Hopefully that's just a terrible thing they do to everybody on that stupid fucking show. But to me, just watching the one episode, I was like, That's the sound of me taking a shit. Sorry. But to me, just watching the one episode, I was like, mm, mm, mm.

That's the sound of me taking a shit. Great. Sorry. You had to do it on this episode. You waited until the end of the last one. That was you. No. It was you, and I was embarrassed for you.

You know what? I actually need to get some water. Okay, get some water. Jesus. Off to a great start. Okay, Brandi, I'm back. Are you proud that I lasted a whole 15 minutes into the episode? Without getting water. Yep.

This really shows where we're at with this episode. Okay, picture it. It's November of 2005, and we're at with this episode. Okay, picture it. It's November of 2005, and we're in Dallas, Texas. Keisha Kelly had been living with her sister Latrice in nearby Arlington, Texas. But Keisha was at a point in her life where she wanted to get her own place, so she got a realtor and looked at a few houses. It was important to Keisha that she stay close to family and close to work. She had a job as a mechanical drafter, which based on my extensive

googling probably means that every day she got up and got to work with a protractor, Brandy. Yeah, she made blueprints, right? Yeah. Protectors are the only fun things that math has ever given us. I didn't know what it meant, so I had to look it up. And then I saw that thing, and I was like, oh, my gosh, I've got to remember what the name of that thing is. That's so cool. Anyway, that's the journey I went on today. Anyway, could you please stop talking about protectors?

We don't have time. We got things to do. Keisha wanted a place that was centrally located between family and work. Great. I already said that. Let's hit it again. Yes, it's important. It's the number one and number two items on her list.

Location, location, and location. She also wanted to get it at a good price. What year is it? DP style, 2005. Not likely, Keisha. Well, you know, you can get it at a good price for 2005 standards. Okay. What?

I'm just saying. What's that? Bubble hasn't burst yet. Interest rates were a-climbing. You know what you're reminding me of right now? What? That little cloud guy in Mario Kart. He comes down and he's like, no, no.

He has a name? He has a name? I don't know. You're the fucking gaming historian's wife. I just bang the man, okay? I don't know. You're the fucking gaming historian's wife. I just bang the man, okay? I don't absorb the knowledge. So anyway, Keisha wanted a good price, which is Brandy, the cloud man, says, you know, oh, wait a couple years, the market's going to burst.

Well, she didn't know that, okay? So she was like looking for a place in the immediate future. Uh-huh. And she wasn't afraid of getting a place that needed a little fixing up. Okay. She really put in some sweat equity. That's right. Sweat equity is what I call it.

Nobody calls it that. That's what we all call it. She was kind of excited to find a place that had some DIY opportunities. So her realtor took her around to a few homes, including one that had been foreclosed on. And yeah, it needed a little work, but Keisha wasn't intimidated. It was in a well-established neighborhood full of mature people and mature trees. What kind of trees were they, Kristen? Don't act like you give a shit.

I care a lot about mature trees. I know you do. Yeah. Don't try to plot me in a neighborhood where they took out all the trees and put all the homes in and now they've got these little, know sticks coming out of the ground mature trees brandy plus unlike some of the other houses they toured this one had a homey feel the house was located at i've not prepared at all. Seven, five, one, nine. Sorry, that was a weird way of saying that. Seven, five, one,

nine, Gay Glen Drive, Dallas, Texas. You got a spelling on Gay Glen? Gay Glen. Oh,

one word. I know. Never seen the word before in my life. Okay, and you want to go to not just any listing. Hang on. I wrote it down. You want to go to the realtor in my life. Okay, and you want to go to not just any listing. Hang on. I wrote it down. You want to go to

the realtor.com listing. You'll see pictures of it. Looks like it was sold in 2020. Four beds, two baths. Really? Hang on. That might be the wrong place. No, no, no. That's it. You're right. Yeah. Alright. Alright. Yeah. This is nice. Yeah, so it's a cute, modest

home. I kind of like the roofline on it. What? They got one of those walk-in tubs. A walk-in tub with the... Oh, yes, they do. I always thought those were cool when I saw the infomercials. You did? Yes!

Well, aren't they for people who are, like, 80? Yes, they are! Okay, what about them appealed to you as a young child? Because it was like, you know, they have jets and stuff. That sounds cool. I don't. Okay, what I don't like. Uh-huh.

Right off the bat. Okay, so I'm in the bathroom, right? Okay, sure. Okay, the shower curtain right? OK. Sure. OK. The shower curtain, it's not working. But I get that they pushed it in so that you could see that it had the walk-in. Yeah. They wanted to appeal to someone like you.

Yes. Exactly. But then also like what's happening with the toilet paper there and all the stuff piled up on the counter. Yeah. You're making me look like you have no storage space. And so I'm already – it's already a negative to me. Yeah, I think whoever took these pictures did not do themselves any favors. Good flooring throughout.

It's a cute house. I like the staircase. It's a good staircase. It is. Although. Be ashamed to fall down it, am I right? Somebody would die if they fell down it. It's like an good staircase. It is. Although. Be ashamed to fall down it, am I right? Somebody would die if they fell down it. It's like an open staircase.

Yeah, maybe that's why it appeals to you, you weirdo. Probably is. I do like the roof line. Yes, as you mentioned. Back to that. Back to the roof line. Not enough people compliment the roof line on homes, I feel. It seems like very 60s style.

Is that when this house was built? Absolutely. Oh, she's good. She's good. It's a walking distance to the elementary school. That's great for pervs. Recently updated bathroom with a walk-in tub.

I like how you just didn't even acknowledge it. I have no idea what you said. What did you say? I said great for pervs. Oh, God. And people with kids. Terribly sorry.

Oh, no. You are my friend. So Keisha decided this was the place for her. In order to get it financed, her dad, Will Kelly, was the one who technically bought the house. His name was the one on all the paperwork, but Keisha was the one who would pay the mortgage, insurance, taxes, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. So they made an offer and everything went great. The inspection was totally fine. Closing process, uneventful. Keisha was pumped.

She was getting her own house. That's so exciting. Yeah. But I know it's going to go bad, like, any minute now, so. No, this is just a little story about how real estate contracts work. On her move-in day, she finished up some work, probably, you know, just protractors all over the place, you know, just spinning. And she and her family loaded up a truck with her stuff and drove over to her new house. They pulled up and Keisha got her keys ready, got to the front door, and saw that it was broken.

It looked like it had been pried open. And that wasn't the only thing that it was broken. It looked like it had been pried open. And that wasn't the only thing that had been broken. Around back, one of the windows had been smashed in. Keisha was, you know, alarmed, obviously. But they went in the house and no one was there. You know, it had sat empty for a while, so there was nothing there to take, really. She figured that maybe a homeless person had broken in because they wanted someplace warm to sleep for the night. Obviously inconvenient.

Yeah. And expensive, because she'd have to fix the door or fix the window. But, you know, not, like, the hugest deal. Two weeks passed. Keisha had her family over and they were all helping with the new place. Her mom and her aunt were cleaning. Her uncle Johnny was a contractor who fixes up houses. Do you like that I said aunt like a fancy person?

You know I get fancier every day. That's right. So, you know, he's walking around going like, yeah, that'll cost $11 billion to fix. Yeah. I think that's all contractors do. That's what they do. Her, her, her. Anyway, all of a sudden, boom.

Police show up. You didn't know what that was. I wasn't sure what happened. I bet a bunch of people pulled over. They're like, my God. The cops are right behind me. Keisha opened the door and the officers told

her that they'd had a break-in at this address. And Keisha was like, no. I live here. This is my home. I'm definitely not breaking into it. She got her keys, which clearly unlocked the door. And she showed them some paperwork.

And they were like, mind if we take a look around, ma'am? And she's like, okay. But I have a feeling that much like that time when that waitress was mean to you, she said okay. But then she gave them a look and said, this is absolutely not okay. okay, but then she gave them a look that said, this is absolutely not okay. So, you know, police looked around and determined that this black woman had not, in fact, broken into her own home. Yeah. Fucking.

Okay. Anyway. And as the police left, Keisha walked out on her porch and noticed a man standing at the corner of the street. At this point, what? Fucking Michael Myers? Yeah. No, it's a movie reference. I get it.

Uh-huh. Creepy murderer dude. The chainsaw? No, he has a mask. Yeah, he wears a mask. He has a knife. Yeah, I get it. Jamie Lee Curtis. Yeah, very has a mask. Yeah, he wears a mask and has a knife. Yeah, I get it. Jamie Lee Curtis.

Yeah, very good. Okay, so we're going to have to pause here. Okay. Because I need to talk about the reenactment in Obsessions. Dark Desires! Because you know what? I felt that it left a lot to be desired.

Yes, that's right. Okay, so this story is set in Dallas, and every single one of these actors is trying to do a Southern accent. All right. Do they have a Southern accent in Dallas? Not really. Yeah, you do. Okay, sure. I mean, Keisha does. Like, they interview her. But, like, you know, it's like a normal southern accent that, like, real human beings have. Okay.

The actors are cyborgs. I do declare. Yeah. This is my home. It's just far more loud. What? So although none of them succeeded in doing a good Southern access, access, accent,

The good Southern access, access, accent. They did all succeed in bringing some very dramatic moments to my TV screen. Picture this reenactment, won't you, Brandy? I will. Okay, Keisha is standing on her front porch doing her best impression of Blanche Devereaux when she spots this terrifying man standing across the street leering at her. He's carrying a duffel bag. He's wearing a formerly white shirt, dirty overalls with just one strap done like a cool girl in fifth grade.

His hair is wild. His teeth are jacked up. It's clear that something has happened to one of his eyes. And he's teetering from side to side, sneering and whispering. He's whispering? My house. That's what he's whispering? My house.

My house. Oh, my gosh. Okay, so this guy. Whew. I looked up a picture of the real man afterward. And I will say, this particular actor

really did capture him quite well. I mean, he's a scary looking dude. In her interview, Keisha said, I wouldn't want to be caught in no alley with him. And yeah, you wouldn't. Okay. So this is the previous owner of the house. The house was foreclosed upon while he lived there and it was taken from him and he's upset about it. Actually, you're not totally right. Okay. And I know it seems like that's of course what happened. It's a little weirder than that. Okay, great.

Keep on keeping on. This dude was big, okay? He's about six feet tall. He had one of those wide-ass necks that goes right into the head, not a curve in sight. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Keisha described his size as probably about 300 pounds or better, which makes me miss the South. But back to the reenactment.

In the reenactment, as soon as the creepy man leaves, Keisha turns to go back into her house and all of a sudden, boom! An older woman is standing in her yard in front of her. What? Does she have mystical powers? We shall see. She's wearing a house dress. Is she the next door neighbor? And a necklace that appears to be made of anal beads.

No. She has her arms crossed, but not really crossed. She's kind of holding her forearms. Yeah. Okay. And she talks in a soft, all-knowing voice and says, You need to beware that man. Oh, Lord.

And Keisha says, who is he? Who are you? And she said, I'm the next door neighbor. And that's creepy Joe. Okay. What? He's a squatter who started living in the house after it had been foreclosed on. Again, I'm going to give you half points all around.

Half points. All right. The woman with the anal bead necklace says, he's Donald Pennington. He used to live there many years ago. No. Keisha says, where does he stay now? Neighbor. Out there.

And the old woman points to a wooded area nearby. Oh, Lord. And Keisha looks over there, and the camera pans in that direction. And Keisha says, She's gone! Gosh! Spooky! It's so fucking stupid.

It's so stupid. Like, this story is actually creepy on its own. Exactly! Like, you don't have to have this neighbor who, woo-hoo-hoo, pops in and woo-hoo-hoo, pops out. So, okay, so they do this ridiculous thing. Then the show cut to their interview with Keisha in the kill room that they'd so graciously prepared for her. And she explained the story in a much more normal way. She essentially said that her neighbors explained to her that in the early 90s, Donald used to live in that house.

They're dramatic reenactments. I would fucking say so. Here's the thing. Do we even need reenactments? Must we? Must we have them? If we have to have them, I prefer— You don't like little animations?

I would rather do an animation or like just a faceless thing. Like don't give me a mannequin with a face on it. You know what I mean? Give me the decapitated mannequin. Right? Okay, sure. It's less creepy. It's less weird.

Yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, headless mannequin's not creepy at all. Everybody's saying it. Okay. Okay. Okay. You go into a store. Do you want to see like a full-on head with like the fake hair?

No, I don't. Exactly. I don't like this. Exactly. I think you've learned a lot today. Okay. My favorite episode of The Twilight Zone involves mannequins. Go on.

It's called The After Hours. It's a wonderful woman. Buys a gold thimble at a department store. And then she gets it home and realizes that it's dented. And she wants to send it to her mother as a gift. And so she returns to the department store to get a new one because she realizes that it's dented. And they're like, oh, well, we only sell thimbles on the ninth floor. So then she gets in the elevator to go up to the ninth floor.

There is no ninth floor. But then, like, the elevator opens and it's, like, this storage area. She walks around and it's, like, abandoned. But then it's not abandoned. Because a mannequin was there. She's a mannequin. So you're telling me that all the mannequins in all the stores are just ladies who were sold dented thimbles and have been bamboozled. They all take turns.

They get a month that they come to life and get to go live out in the world. But then they forget that they're mannequins and so they have to lure them back into the store. Oh, wow. Yeah. That's rough. Yeah. See, this is why I don't watch shows like that. It's too creepy.

It makes it so much sadder somehow that they have a month off. Yeah. All right. So Donald used to live in the house in the 90s. Okay. And there'd been like three other people who'd bought the house since then and he'd run them all off. He'd harassed them endlessly. He acted like he still owned the place. He used the home as his current address for all of his mail.

He occasionally called the cops when he saw people there that he didn't like. Sometimes he let himself in and made himself at home. One woman who bought the house came home and found him sitting at her kitchen table eating her food. What would you do oh my god i don't lose my shit it would scare the of course oh i don't even know yeah yeah that's super scary another set of residents came home and found him lying on their sofa watching TV? Keisha was freaked out. She was completely uncomfortable. Months went by.

Donald was on the corner every day or every other day. Just watching the house. Watching the house. Don't like it. Neighbors said he sometimes stood and watched the house for hours. Even when the sun was blazing he'd just stand and watch. But Keisha was determined not to be

intimidated. As evidenced by the following reenactment. Oh no. Keisha's standing on her porch. Donald is watching from a distance. You get on out of here! Oh, oh pretty good! Okay, Keisha's standing on her porch. Donald is watching from a distance. You get on out of here! Oh, pretty good! Okay, Keisha yells, y'all don't scam me!

Yeah! And Donald just kind of twitches and whispers, my house! My house! Oh, no. house. Oh, no. A few months after she moved in, she got some alarming

paperwork in the mail. It was from Dallas County. An eviction had been filed against her. That was strange. So Keisha and her dad, Will, went to court and of course they had all the relevant paperwork. Will owned the house.

He most certainly was not evicting his daughter. Yeah. Donald was, though. Yeah. Yeah. Donald was there for Keisha. This was the first time she'd seen him, like, up close. Uh-huh.

They all waited around. And eventually the judge heard the case and was like, okay, this is ridiculous, and dismissed the case. Yeah. Eventually, the judge heard the case and was like, OK, this is ridiculous and dismissed the case. Yeah. So that had been annoying and a complete waste of time. Yeah. It's more than annoying.

It is. It's a huge waste of time. Yeah. Yeah. And you should have to, I don't know, it should be a little harder to be able to get an eviction process going. Oh. Interesting point. You think so, Brandi? You think so?

Yeah, I agree. I am personally shocked at how easy it was for him to get this process going. Yeah. Because wait for the next part. It happened again. Holy shit. Keisha got a notice of eviction. She and her dad went to court.

So did Donald. Will and Keisha showed the judge their paperwork and the judge was like, oh, this is ridiculous. Dismiss the case. Then it happened a third time. Keisha got a notice of eviction. She and her dad went to court. So did Donald. Will and Keisha showed the judge their paperwork.

The judge was like, oh, this is ridiculous. Dismiss the case. Yeah. Then it happened a fourth time. Keisha got a notice of eviction. What? She's like, this is ridiculous. Ridiculous.

Yeah. She's like, I'm not going to court again. It takes up a ton of time. Okay, not to mention, she has a fucking job. Yeah. Yeah, she's working with protractors constantly. Those protractors won't spin themselves. She's like, it always takes a ton of time.

It always gets dismissed. I'm not doing it. I'm not going. So Keisha and Will decided to ignore the notice of eviction. Meanwhile, the harassment continued. Donald would call tow trucks to have cars removed from Keisha's property. He would call the police when Keisha had people over. He took out an insurance policy on the house.

Which, like, that's the least fun part of homeownership. Well, yeah, and, like, what documents did he provide in order to do that? So she said in this episode of this TV show that I enjoyed tremendously that he must have had a government-issued ID with that address on it. Yeah. And a lot of the stuff he was doing was just stuff that no one would do unless you owned the house. Right, and so there are no safeguards for like stopping. So like. That makes sense. Like why on earth would you be like, you know what I want to do with my money?

Insure this house that's not mine. Yeah. Exactly. You're right. Around this time, Keisha started to talk to more of her neighbors because she wanted to know more about Donald Pennington. So she went and talked to the woman who was like a mystical creature and appeared to disappear. Right, right, right, with the anal beads.

Sure. And that woman told her that Donald had lived in that house with his wife in the early 90s. And Donald was very violent with his wife. He beat her all the time. The neighbors said that she lost count of the number of times she called the police. Eventually, Donald was arrested and went to prison for domestic violence. And while he was there, his wife sold the house and moved on. When he came out a year later, someone else was living in the house,

and he couldn't accept it. And ever since then, he'd harassed whoever lived in that house. Now that Keisha knew that Donald could be violent, she started to think that the house just wasn't worth it. It was pretty fucking scary. She wondered about packing up and moving in with her sister until she could find another place. But she just couldn't do it. She didn't like the idea of passing this problem on to someone else. She said, I wouldn't want to give somebody that headache. Plus, she didn't want him to win. Yeah. So she stayed. And on June 4th, 2006, she was served with notice to vacate the premises. She was being evicted.

Holy shit. From her own house. She had three days to comply. What the fuck? Is this not amazing that someone can do this? It's unbelievable. Okay. I was just stunned. Is this not amazing that someone can do this? It's unbelievable. OK. I was just stunned.

So for like half a minute today, I was like Googling how to evict someone in Texas. And of course you don't get very far. But yeah, I mean I think it's kind of the same deal of like no one would fake this. Right. So when someone does, they just can do it endlessly? I mean that's such a failure of the system. No kidding. She and her dad went to the courthouse to talk.

It's worth noting that most of those systems are to protect the landlord, not the tenant, which is just really great stuff. Or in this case, the homeless man who lives across the street. Just eviction laws in general are not great, so. Yeah. No shit. She and her dad went to the courthouse to talk to one of the clerks, and they were like, here's the situation. We own this house.

Something's wrong with this man. And the clerk was like, I'm really sorry, but this is a default judgment. Because you didn't come to court, he more or less won. Oh, my gosh. So the thing about a default judgment is that it can be vacated, but it's a ton of work. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. So Keisha and her father had to hire an attorney who would file a motion to get this thing opened back up and hopefully put all this bullshit to an end.

But in order to really fight this, Keisha decided that she needed more information. But in order to really fight this, Keisha decided that she needed more information. So she went downtown to the police station and got all the police records on Donald Pennington. And they were like, how far you need to go back? And she was like, as far as y'all can take me. And they gave her a fat stack of papers. She found the incident report from when he assaulted his wife. She found reports on the times he'd harassed the previous owners of her house. She was amazed that he hadn't been stopped a long time ago. When it came time to go to court over the eviction case, Keisha and Will's

lawyer took care of the whole thing. You know, the eviction got overturned and the lawyer argued for a restraining order. Yeah. And in March of 2007, the judge entered a permanent injunction against Donald Pennington. It barred him from entering or trespassing

on the property, coming within 500 feet of it, harassing or interfering with the Kelly's ownership of the property, or causing any constable to oust Keisha from her property.

Don't you dare cause a constable to oust her. The judge warned Donald that he could go to jail if he didn't follow these rules. And Donald responded, I ain't scared of jail. I've been to jail before. Great. Yeah. Shit. Yeah. What do we do with that? Yeah. Shit. Yeah, what do we do with that?

Yeah. I guess nothing. Right. So this— I'm afraid of no ghosts. Yeah, basically. And, you know, they didn't have time to sing that song. But they made time because it was a priority.

have time to sing that song, but they made time because it was a priority. This permanent injunction worked about as well as you'd think it would. Yeah, exactly. In her interview, Keisha talked about how frustrating it was to not get meaningful help from people who actually had the power to do something. She said, the police never got on the bandwagon. The judge never got on the bandwagon. The mental hospital for Dallas that handles all the mental patients, they never got on the bandwagon. So, just a side note, there was a little bit in this episode and a little bit in the article that said that he had been treated for bipolar disorder and depression. So there – Yeah, I would guess there were some mental health issues at play here for sure.

Yeah, because you wouldn't just do this. No. OK. So now we're getting into another thing I hated about this show. OK, great. So – Somebody got a tally going? So obviously there's something really wrong with this guy.

Yeah. And also it's terrible that she's going through this. Of course. It's all bad. Both things can exist. But as she's saying this, as she's making this point that she wasn't getting help that she needed from the systems that were in place, place on this fucking tv show the actor playing donald was standing at a grill outside keisha's house with a set of tongs turning leaves over on the grill and then munching on them okay yeah that's unnecessary so this fucking show had tons of like wacky footage of Donald acting crazy and laughing maniacally and talking to no one.

But interestingly, zero talking heads with like a legal expert to talk about why this systemic failure happened. No questions posed at the police or politicians about how this was allowed to go on for years. No questions posed at the police or politicians about how this was allowed to go on for years. Just tons of footage of a man doing wacky shit. Yeah. Bugged the shit out of me. Yeah. And I hate.

Sorry. I hate that she was the only one interviewed for this story because it puts all of it on her. Yeah. Every single bit of it. They didn't even like pull from court records or anything. Right. If they did, they didn't show that. Right. I think it's unfair to her and unfair to him.

Absolutely. Anyway, I enjoyed the program. By this point, Keisha had been in her home for about two years. And she came home one day and a man was standing on her property. And she's like, who are you? Who the fuck are you? She was much nicer than that. She's nothing like you.

That's not what I say when there's a man on my property. May I help you? May I help you? Sir, you need me to polish that crowbar for you? What do you need? I'm happy to help. Just here to help. We keep money in the back bedroom.

Save you some time. You look like a busy fella. A lot of places to rob. So she's like, what are you doing here? So she's like, what are you doing here? And he was like, oh, I just came to give this man an estimate on getting some burglar bars put on the windows of this house. What? Burglar?

No, so Donald is calling people to put up security stuff on the house that's not his now? Yeah, for sure. Holy shit. Yeah, so there's Donald right there. And Keisha, of course, flipped out. And Donald was unfazed. But the guy who was there to just give the estimate was like, you know, took off. I hope you all knew what that meant. Yeah, we get it.

Like he went into, he's like a cartoon character. The legs are moving, but he's not going anywhere. Yeah, we get it. But then all of a sudden, bing! Cloud of dust. Took off. Yeah. And another one bites the dust.

Did she call the police? Because it's in violation of the permanent injunction. Oh, that didn't even occur to her. Yes, it happens next. Okay, well, tell us about it! I had to tell you about the cartoon legs. So it comes. Am I too much this episode?

Like too sexy? Yeah. And too cool. Yeah. And too cool. Usually. Often I find myself thinking both of those things about you. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Well, just power through. All right. Geez. So Keisha called the cops. That was a good idea. It really was. And they arrived a little while after Donald had already left. Of course.

And she was like, hey, please help me. This is the same guy who's been harassing me ever since I moved in a few years ago. And they were like, well, yeah, mm-hmm, just be cautious and watch your surroundings. Don't hesitate to call us if you need us. See, sir, that's what I'm fucking doing right now. They were like, well, did you call us when Brandy told you to call us? Did you wait for Kristen to describe the carton? Thanks, because it seems like it's on you, ma'am.

She later said all they're concerned about is their police report that shows they did their part. But they didn't help do anything. Nothing. Yeah, they're there to fill out their forms. So Keisha was like, all right, things are escalating. I need to do something to increase my safety. So you know what she did? What?

She got an adorable Rottweiler. Attack dog. Yeah. Attack dog. Fuck. She named him Bronx. And Bronx was a good boy. Yeah.

He was a barker. He barked at noises. He barked at people who came to the house. And he barked at anything and everything. Yes. Kind of a dotty dog. He barked at people who came to the house, and he barked at anything and everything. Yes. Mm-hmm. Kind of a dotty dog. Yeah, I was about to say, got a real dotty situation here.

He made Keisha feel a lot safer. But Keisha's dad wanted more. He was like, maybe you should just move home. But she refused. Ten pounds would have said that. You know what ten pounds would have done? You would have been kidnapped in the middle of the night. You would have thrown me over his shoulder.

He's like, carry me out of there. He's like, I know you said no, but you're wrong. You're just wrong. So she's like, no, you know, that's what this guy wants. I won't give it to him. And her dad said, OK. And he got her a gun. Keisha wasn't a gun person, but she'd been through enough that she said, all right, you know, if it makes you feel better, I'll keep it in the house.

She was nervous at first learning how to shoot the gun, but she got the hang of it. shoot the gun, but she got the hang of it. During the reenactment scene where Keisha's dad is teaching her how to use a gun, his accent slips from American Southern to Jamaican, but what can we do? So she had a gun and she had a guard dog. And one night, Keisha's friend called her up and invited her out to drinks. And okay, maybe I just heard what i wanted to hear okay but norman heard this too okay you called him into the room made him listen well he he came down okay and he started making he was like oh my gosh this is great because then you can make fun of these reenactments i was like i'm on it i'm already there i'm like cakes. How many episodes in a row will you reference Lone Star? I don't know.

That's two. So let's see. Let's keep it going. I swear to you, she said that her friend invited her to have drinks with her at Cheddar's. Did they have? I fucking hope so. The onion rings. Obviously.

Yeah, because it was like 07. Cheddar's is on our shit list, folks. They removed the onion rings as an appetizer. You can't even get them anymore. Well, yeah, that's what I just said. You said they removed them as an appetizer. They removed them from the restaurant completely. The whole restaurant.

Said they were slowing down their kitchen. But they were speeding up my heart. Yeah, if you haven't had a strong beverage at the Cheddar's before you go antiquing, have you even lived? That's right. Have you even lived? That's right. Keisha was only out for like an hour and a half, which doesn't seem right. How do you only go out to Cheddar's for an hour and a half?

Maybe they didn't get the onion rings. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe that was the key. Yeah. Sped it right up. That's right. What do you think they ordered?

Painkillers. Yeah. They each had a painkiller. Limit one perers. Yeah. They each had a painkiller. Limit one per customer. Yeah. What did they get? I don't know. I'm a big fan of the salmon at the Cheddar's. That's my new favorite dish there. Yeah, but they're just there for drinks.

Your friend invites you out for drinks and you get salmon? Probably not. Yeah. No. What are you thinking? I wasn't. You know what I was thinking? I was thinking what I'd want at Cheddar's. Exactly.

I want the bourbon glazed salmon, Kristen. OK. OK. My fear is that they got the nachos. Are they not good? No. You know what they do at Cheddar's? What do they do?

This is obviously not sponsored by Cheddar's. Well, I shouldn't say obviously. We're talking great things about Cheddar's. You want to get yourself a meal for like, you know,

15 bucks? Yeah. Yes. Take yourself to the Ched Shed. Yeah. Anyhow, they do the thing where they give you

like seven chips. Oh, each chip has – I don't like that. No, I hate that. No. It's so obvious. Someone has fingered the fuck out of these chips. I'm sorry.

You have had me for saying fingered last episode. You've said it like five times. I've been very judicious. I've wanted to say it other times, but I've held back. But that's how I feel when I see those individually done up chicks. Chicks? Whoops. Chips.

Don't finger the chicks. Unless they want it and have consented. No, if you're in the middle of a Cheddar's restaurant, don't finger anybody. That's just a nice rule. It's a family restaurant.

I'm just saying they got private booths. Ew! What the hell are you and David doing at Cheddar's? Jesus! Nothing! Well, you're the one who brought it up! I might be saying to each their own if we've got consenting adults.

I don't want to sit down at a booth in Cheddar's and feel a wet spot. I think they wipe those things down between people. Well, let's hope and pray if people are fingering each other. What is wrong with you, ma'am? Oh, I'm the bad guy here? Yeah, I am so uncomfortable with this conversation. I'm just like, when will it end? Oh, my.

Yeah, you never say anything inappropriate on this program. I keep it classy. That's what they all say. All right. Anyway. You farted on the recording last week. That was not a fart. That came from deep inside me.

And how dare you? My body rebelled because I had mac and cheese and custard. That's too much dairy. I tried to hold it together like a champ. I got to the end of that story and it just went awry.

And you know what? If you had been a classy friend, you would have just like... No, I didn't hear anything. You know what? Let's back up to that part in the story before, you know, whatever happened, happened. And instead, when I asked you where to back up to, you suggested a toilet. And in doing so,

you know he couldn't cut anything. It was comedy gold. It was comedy gold. The next day I went shopping with my mom and I told her how I was nervous for the episode because like, you don't know how that's going to turn out. You don't know until you hear back, yeah. She thought your line was quite funny as well.

Anyway, so yeah, so Keisha was at the Cheddar's. No one was being fingered because it's not that kind of place, Brandy. Okay, great. Thank you. And she got back to the house and saw that her front door was open oh no she went inside no don't go in

just call the police well maybe she did her house probably better than that call your dad I mean really the police have done fucking nothing for you so far

hey no they gave her that great tip about be aware of your surroundings yeah I mean, really? The police have done fucking nothing for you so far. Hey, no. They gave her that great tip about be aware of your surroundings. Yeah. Get the onion rings at Cheddar's. You never know when something's going to be cruelly ripped from your menu. That's right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

The house had been ransacked. Oh, no. Not an onion ring in sight. Sorry. Her computer was missing. So was some of her jewelry, her DVD player, and her gun. I was going to say, what about the gun? Get to the gun.

Worst of all, whoever did this had used her own gun to shoot her dog. No! He was still alive, covered in blood. She called the police. They came out and asked her, who do you think could have done this? And Keisha was like, gee, I don't know. It's a real mystery.

Better get Scooby in the game. No, she was like, duh, it's Donald fucking Pennington. Yeah. And they were like, is that his middle name? Is that with a PH or is that an F? And she's like, don't you have records on this? Haven't I seen you fellas like every three days for the past five years?

To this day, she has no idea if they went and interviewed Donald or did anything about this. I mean, and to be fair, there's probably not a ton you do about a burglary. No. The dog ended up being fine. Okay. Thank goodness. I know. I could tell.

I was going to save it for the end, but man. I wasn't going to make it. Were you going to have to back up to a toilet or like what was your situation? I'm just going to make you tell me if the top is OK. And if he wasn't, I was going to leave. So that night, Keisha went to her sister's house and stayed with her. And her dad got her another gun. But Keisha was scared. After the break-in, she heard that Donald assaulted someone with a knife.

He'd gotten into a fight with an acquaintance over some change. He was arrested for that, but it didn't look like he was locked up for very long. Keisha stayed at her sister's house for three months before she eventually moved back home. She was nervous about it, but ready to be back on her own. And then one night – I probably wouldn't have gone back. I get – yeah, I get it's your house. You're wanting it.

I think it's really brave of her to go back honestly. I don't think I could have done it. I don't know what I would do. I don't think I could have done it. I don't know what I would do. I think it's tough also because it's like, okay, if we try to sell this place, what would we get out of it? Exactly. You might be stuck. There's financial burden tied up in it.

Absolutely. Yeah. And then one night, Donald Pennington called a locksmith. And then one night, Donald Pennington called a locksmith. The locksmith arrived at Keisha's home, and Donald showed him an ID with Keisha's home address on it. And he told the man he'd been locked out of his house. So the locksmith got to work. And in the meantime, Keisha was inside, had no idea this was going on, and she was talking on the phone with her dad. And she heard someone trying to break in.

They were at the front door. The handle was twisting. She hung up the phone and called the police and got her gun. And as she was on the phone, the door swung open. It was the locksmith. I mean, this guy, he put his hands in the air. He's like, don't shoot, don't shoot. And he told her he was a locksmith. He'd come to let this man in his house. And Keisha was like, which man? Where is he? And there was Donald right there on the property. She told both the men to leave.

And, of course, the locksmith skedaddled. Yeah. But Donald didn't. She told the dispatcher that she needed someone quick. She told Donald again to leave. She fired a warning shot in the air. He didn't move. She aimed the gun at him.

He charged at her. And she fired. The bullet hit him in the head. Oh my gosh. The 911 call recorded everything. Police arrived on the scene and they arrested Keisha and took her downtown. At the station, they had her go through everything that happened. And ultimately, the district attorney opted not to bring charges against her. Yeah. This was a case of self-defense. The DA based their decision on the locksmith and the 911 operator, and also the police reports on Donald Pennington. Yeah. I mean, it kind of spoke for itself.

I mean it kind of spoke for itself. So it was over but in a way it wasn't. She cried as she told the story about shooting him. Yeah, I can't even imagine. I felt horrible for her. Yeah. She said multiple times, it didn't have to come to that. It didn't have to come to that.

She said, I'm not a killer. Yeah. And I mean she's clearly not. didn't have to come to that. She said, I'm not a killer. And I mean, she's clearly not. She said to this day, she plays things back in her head, wondering if there was anything that could have been done differently. But ultimately, she felt that once he came at her like that, she had two choices, me or you. Yeah. me or you. Yeah. So that's the end of the story.

To me, it's just a story of systemic failure. Yeah. I hate that this is painted as just like an obsessed man. Clearly something, what he did was terribly wrong. Clearly he needed help. Yeah.

I hate that she was put in a position where she had to kill him in order for this to stop. Yeah. Absolutely. I don't know what the solution is, but my God, there are so many things like how was it possible for him to get eviction going on her four times? How is there not some kind of system or something? Yes. Yeah. Also, how are reenactments so bad?

That's the real question. It must be stopped. These bad reenactments, they must be stopped. That was wild. Wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah, I feel terrible for her. She's clearly a very

caring person. All right. You ready to talk about just a completely normal, natural, nothing funky to see here? Nothing funky to see? Someone dying bell bottoms? No, it's good. I like that. I actually didn't like how much I liked it.

I know you gave me that face like you hated it, but you loved it. Man, can you imagine a more you story than someone like falls down the stairs to their death because they tripped on their bell bottoms? But it gets pinned on the husband. Oh, my gosh. and he breeds owls he doesn't fuck owls he just encourages them to fuck each other just to clarify thank you for the clarification

alright for this I watched two shows Obsessions Darkest Eyes an episode of Dateline hosted by our boy Keith Morrison. Yes. Yes.

Oh. Yeah. He was in, you know, top-notch Keith Morrison form on this one. And an episode of On the Case with Paula Zahn. Okay. Essentially all of this comes from those two sources. Okay. It was 8.30 in the morning on August 16th, 2017, when a call came in to the Greeley, Colorado 911 dispatch center.

Dispatch center. You know what's a shame? I feel like for like years, you've done great with that word. I've done great, yeah. Now we're regressing because it's an after dark episode. That's right. On the line was a frantic Kelly Baker. Through tears, she relayed to the dispatcher that she'd just arrived home,

opened the door, and found her husband, 59-year-old Randy Baker, dead on the floor. The dispatcher asked Kelly if she thought Randy was beyond the point of help, and Kelly responded that she didn't know. She couldn't handle getting close enough to him to find out. She said, he's purple. And so the dispatcher kind of kept her on the phone and was like, OK, you know, no chance of us, you know, trying to I can walk through CPR. She's like, no, no, I couldn't possibly. She did sound very distraught on the phone.

She was crying heavily. Well, your intro has us very suspicious. When police arrived on the scene, they located Randy's body in a hallway just inside the door from the garage. There was a bag of food from a local fast food restaurant spilled on the floor beside him. There was some blood at the scene, but not much. Initially, it looked to investigators that maybe Randy's heart had given out. Kelly told investigators that he was recovering from heart surgery. He'd had a pacemaker put in. He had actually had heart problems for years and his health had really been declining as of late.

In fact, it had gotten so bad that he had actually been falling asleep behind the wheel. Like he had done it like five times in the past few weeks. And he was still driving? Including one time just like hours before his death. He had actually nodded off behind the wheel. He'd like bumped something with his car. Holy shit. And like woken up and a police officer had witnessed it and talked to him and determined that he wasn't under the influence or anything like that, that he just, yeah,

nodded off and he told them to get home safely. It had happened multiple times? Yeah, like five times in the previous few weeks. Am I the most alarmed person? No, I think it's pretty alarming. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's pretty alarming. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's very alarming. Did he go to the doctor for that? Yeah, and so they just kind of wrote it off as like his body was just really working to heal from this heart surgery.

I believe that there were multiple things. Like I believe he had open heart surgery where they placed a pacemaker and maybe done some other things at that same time. Well, gosh, maybe you don't drive for a while, Randy. Yeah, maybe. So investigators initially surmised that Randy had come home the previous night with dinner for himself and had walked in the house, suffered some kind of medical event, and then fallen to the floor dead. He'd hit his head on the way down or when he landed,

and that explained the small amount of blood that they found at the scene. Randy Baker's death was tentatively ruled due to natural causes pending a formal autopsy. But when that autopsy was performed and they kind of cleaned that blood off of Randy's head, it revealed a bullet hole. Oh, Randy had been shot in the head kind of behind the ear with a.22 caliber gun. And a second gunshot wound was found in his shoulder. This one had come from a.45 caliber gun. Randy hadn't died of natural causes at all. He'd been shot to death with two separate weapons.

That's really weird. Yes, super odd. Okay, now the shows that I watched on this put this out there like this was some like big shocker. But I have to assume that police were skeptical of the natural causes thing because there were some pretty big red flags at Randy's house. Randy's wallet, keys and his car, a silver Pontiac G6, were all missing from his house. Well, okay. Yeah. So he didn't drop dead of natural causes and then is it like somebody just happened along

and was like, ooh, a wallet, keys, a car. Great. I'm going to take these. Wouldn't they also take the burger? It wasn't a burger. What was it? Well, okay. I guess I'm assuming it wasn't a burger. What was it? Well, OK. I guess I'm assuming it wasn't a burger because it came from a restaurant called Santiago's.

I assumed it was Mexican food, but I guess I don't really know. Yeah, I don't know either. Yeah. So when you said local fast food, you really meant like local fast food. Yes, it is a local fast food restaurant. OK. We'll get there. All right.

I'm going to talk more about Santiago's. Oh, my God. I'm so excited. You know, I love it when food plays a prominent role. Yeah, I know. So his keys are missing as well. It's missing. His car is missing.

And based on the fast food that they found next to his body, I didn't realize we were talking about it right now or I wouldn't have said, like, we'll get there. Investigators then visited Santiago's. It's like a standalone or single fast food restaurant near Randy's house. And they were like, hey, do you have surveillance cameras? And they were like, we sure do. And they were like, okay, can we see last night's footage? And they were like, absolutely. And so they looked at the footage and Randy had pulled through their drive-thru about 7.30 p.m. on August 15th and he was in his silver Pontiac G6. The restaurant was only about 10 minutes from his house. So

with this information paired with the autopsy, investigators believe that Randy had been gunned down sometime after he'd arrived home, like immediately as he walked in the door, approximately – approximately? Did I just drop the A? You had no time for it. At approximately 7.45 p.m. They believed that he'd been shot initially in the back of the head right behind his ear. That had caused him to fall to the ground. in the back of the head right behind his ear that had caused him to fall to the ground.

And then he'd been, as he was laying face down on the ground, been shot in the back with the larger caliber gun and it had killed him instantly. But they didn't know who had done it. His wife, Kelly, was obviously brought in and questioned, but she insisted that things were good between her and Randy. They were separated and she wasn't living at the house, but things were completely amicable. It was what they both wanted. So which gun was she holding and which gun was her new boyfriend holding? In fact, Kristen, their relationship was so good that she was still operating her hair salon out of the basement at Randy's house.

That's actually why she'd come over that morning to work. She wasn't living in the house, but they were still legally married and nobody had filed any kind of divorce paperwork yet. But, you know, everything's fine. Everything, you know, it was good. This is what everybody wanted. Sounds terrible. That sounds terrible. Investigators did question Kelly as to whether she was seeing someone else.

Yeah. And she said, do I have to answer that? I'd rather not. Which is in and of itself an answer. Yeah. And they were like, you know, no, you don't have to answer it. But boy, you just told us a lot there. Yeah. And eventually she said that she was seeing someone, that she'd been seeing someone for a couple months at that point and that she had been with that person the night that Randy was murdered.

Yeah, we know because she went and killed him together. Kristen. She's not very nice of you. Kelly is a grieving – It wasn't very nice of her. Kelly is a grieving – It wasn't very nice of her. Kelly is a grieving widow. Is she? They did actually speak to the person and he told the same story that they were in bed together all night.

Wow. Mm-hmm. Sex alibi. That's right. Nothing cooler than that. They also asked Kelly if Randy had any life insurance. And Kelly said, yes, you know, he did. Just two small policies totaling $10,000.

She did admit that she was the beneficiary of them. But in the scheme of things, that's a really small amount of money. Yeah, that's not much at all. And so it wasn't anything that the police found alarming. And they, like I said, checked out her alibi that she was banging that dude all night. And story checked out. So they asked Kelly if she might have. Well, how do they know for sure?

Well, exactly. I mean, the two are, yeah, yeah, I was here banging him. Yeah, she was here banging me. Like, anyway. Okay. Airtight alibi. I bet a cleave could slip out. Oh, God.

They did ask Kelly if she had any idea who might, you know, have want to hurt Randy. And Kelly said that, you know, maybe it had something to do with her husband's past. Ooh. When he was younger, he had been a drug dealer. Maybe that had resulted in some dangerous connections. But Randy had been sober for years. And in fact, he actually now worked as a counselor for people struggling with substance abuse disorder. So Randy's drug use started when he was 28 years old. He was like a lineman for the power company and he was electrocuted at work.

Oh, my God. And he suffered permanent heart damage from the electrocution. And from that, he was like in constant pain. And so he began misusing pain pills. Sure. His ex-wife, Dori Baker, they interviewed her on the Dateline episode. She said there was just so much pain there and he didn't know what to do with it. And so he became reliant on pain pills. And she said it was a really dark time in Randy's life. He medicated himself with drugs and alcohol. And then in order to support that, he began dealing drugs. But he did that for about three years. And then he decided that wasn't

how he was going to spend his life. And he cleaned himself up. He got sober. Wow. And he committed himself to helping others. And he became a drug and alcohol counselor. That's incredible. Yeah. He even helped his nephew, Kelly Raisley, his nephew, like the Father's Day before Randy died. So like two months before Randy died, sent him this really nice text message. He said, my dearest uncle, not only have you been a role model and inspiration to me, but you're the closest person I've ever had to a real father figure. But you're the closest person I've ever had to a real father figure. Wow. In addition to being a father figure to the people he helped counsel and his nephew, Randy also had a daughter of his own with his first wife, Dori Baker.

Randy's daughter, Betty Winnick, described her dad as her person. She said she could go to him with anything and everything. She said other people often found him intimidating because of his stature. He was like this really big dude. He was like 6'4". She said like 260 pounds. Or better. Or better. And he was bald.

She said he was super intimidating looking, but he was just a big softie. Yeah. Big softie. Yeah. So Randy was actually still married to Betty's mom, Dory, when he met his second wife, Kelly. Kelly lived a few doors down from the Baker's and she started cutting the whole family's hair. Okay. What?

So they interviewed Dory, Randy's ex-wife, on this episode of Dateline. She said this thing and it's heartbreaking to me. She said that when they met Kelly, she said when she saw the way Kelly looked at her husband Randy, she knew it was over for her. Oh. And she was right it was only a matter of time before Randy left her for Kelly Jolene Jolene yeah Dory said she never stopped loving Randy and was devastated when Betty told her that Randy had been murdered. Oh. After Randy and Kelly got together, they blended their families. Randy had Betty and Kelly had a couple of children of her own.

And for years, the blended family thing worked pretty well. They had some, you know, arguments about how to discipline each other's kids and that kind of thing. But the family worked and Betty became really close to Kelly. She called her mom. But Randy's health continued to decline and Kelly found herself kind of taking on more of a caretaker role. And after 18 years together in the spring of 2017, Kelly said that she'd had enough. She didn't want to be married to Randy anymore and she moved out of the home that they had shared. But – Wait. Kelly and Randy were together for 18 years and the ex-wife still

loved him. Oh, gosh. Yeah. Yeah, it's really sad. Yeah. Yeah. When investigators, you know, learned all of this information about their past and whatever, they asked Kelly, you know, kind of the details of their relationship and then what had led to them, you know, separating and moving toward divorce. And Kelly told them that, you know, their relationship had become a caretaker-caregiver relationship and that she had just kind of reached her breaking point because Randy was just kind of mean. Betty said this wasn't how she knew her father, obviously, but marriages are different than parenting relationships. Thank God. Yes. But in the wake of Randy's death,

his daughter Betty said she was in a haze. She knew that her dad's health was bad and that there was a chance she could lose him. But to lose him in this way, it just – she couldn't wrap her brain around it. And she said she was desperate to have something of her dad's to remember him by. And so she went to Kelly and asked if she could have his most prized possession, his 1995 Harley Davidson Road King. But Kelly told Betty that the bike was gone. Randy had sold it. His most prized possession? Kelly couldn't remember any of the specifics of when or to whom or for how much.

How much? So much. But she was certain of one thing. It was gone. Betty found this super odd. She didn't think her dad would sell his bike at all. And if he had, like if he'd had to for some reason. People would have known.

He certainly would have told her. This just did not sit well with Betty. And she told investigators as much. not sit well with Betty, and she told investigators as much. But just as they were about to dive into the mystery of the missing Harley Davidson, they got word that a concerned citizen had found Randy's missing Pontiac G6. Five days after Randy was killed, his car was found abandoned in like an alley in Greeley, Colorado. It had been completely wiped down. The license plate had been removed and the keys had been locked inside. So detectives are trying to figure out how the car had ended up here.

And they keep like, I don't know, they worked backwards. And they ended up talking to like a whole string of career criminals who like did this kind of like parted out cars and stuff. And they kept working backwards, working backwards, working backwards until finally they found out that the car had been listed for sale on Facebook and that the person who had listed it was Carol Baker, Randyandy's sister what uh-huh have i falsely accused kelly this whole time have you oh no what an asshole are you i hope not so they find out that this car was listed for sale on Facebook by Randy's sister, Carol. And then they find out that Randy and his sister, Carol, this was his older sister. I think she was, I don't know, five years older than him, maybe five or six years older. They had had a really strained relationship.

had a really strained relationship. They were not close, but Carol was actually super close with Randy's wife, Kelly. Oh. Oh, no. Betty recalled that a lot of the time it was Kelly and Carol versus her dad, especially once the kids grew up and were out of the house. It was very much them against him. Fun fact.

Carol had access to Randy's house. She had a key garage door opener. I'm not really sure. But she often did, like, cleaning stuff for Kelly in her salon. And Carol had actually been in Randy's house the night he was murdered. Coincidence, I'm sure. She told detectives that she had been there to do some cleaning for Kelly, But that she'd left, you know, probably by 630, 645, way before Randy got home.

And that she had been then visiting her aunt or aunt, as you like to say, who lived, you know, nearby. I know people from Connecticut. And she'd for sure been there the whole time. Airtight alibi. Did the aunt back it up? Yeah. What about the aunt? Aunt also back, back, backed it up.

Yeah. An aunt would never back, back, back it up. An aunt, maybe. So the police are like, okay, so we've got Kelly and Carol who are super close. Carol is Randy's sister, but they're like not close. Kelly and Randy are estranged. What is the situation here? They both have alibis.

Who the fuck did this? Right. And so after learning that this they had this weird, very close relationship, Kelly and Carol did. I don't necessarily know that it's that weird, but, you know, they were very close, whatever. They decide to take a deep dive into the women's cell phones. Just see how much communicating they're doing. And so a detective spent 12 hours a day, seven days a week for the next month, seven days a week for the next month, pouring over the phones of Kelly and Carol to discover that the women had exchanged 4,500 text messages

over about a three-month period leading up to Randy's death. Initially, there wasn't necessarily anything to, you know, damning in the text messages other than there was a clear hatred of Randy that the two women shared. Kelly had sent Carol a text message after Randy had had his open heart surgery and it said the asshole survived. Oh. Mm-hmm. Wow. Mm-hmm. Wow. Yeah. Yep.

So they've got this detective who's poring over all of these text messages, trying to figure out, okay, did they plot something together? What is this? And then he finds this text message that Carol had sent to Kelly. And it said put it under Sonia. Put what under Sonia?

And then there was a phone number that was sent. And then the minute after that in Kelly's phone a contact had been created for the name Sonia with that phone number. So then they traced this phone number back, but it didn't trace back to any Sonia, Kristen. Instead, it went back to a man named Kelly Raisley. That name might sound familiar because I've already said it in this episode.

That name might sound familiar because I've already said it in this episode. Kelly Raisley, who went by Grizz, was Randy's nephew, Carol's son. The same nephew that had sent Randy that text message for Father's Day that said he was the closest thing to a father he'd ever had. Grizz, as it turns out, as I mentioned, was Carol's son, had a lengthy criminal past with ties to a white supremacist prison gang and had already served a lengthy prison sentence for attempted murder. Oh, my. Mm-hmm. So investigators were able to piece together that Carol and Kelly and Grizz had been planning Randy's murder for months.

And they brought in Carol initially because they thought she'd probably be the easiest one to to crack the she'd been like was like a cashew had been out in the rain yeah as they say that is so clever it's incredible so they i can picture just a paste You know just at the slightest question A paste? Yeah Like cashew nut butter? Yeah cashew cheese

Ew You just press on that cashew that's been out in the rain And it just Yeah So they brought Carol in They put together I don't like how quickly you brushed off my cashew cheese. I don't like your cashew cheese.

My cashew cheese. They put together a photo lineup. Said that there were, these were some potential suspects in her brother's killing that they had maybe tied. You know, maybe it had something to do with his old drug dealer days. And one of the people in the lineup was her son. And so they let Carol believe that they'd connected her son to the murder. And they also led her to believe that Kelly had already sold her out. And then she confessed to the whole plot.

Wow. Yeah. She said they had spent months planning Randy's murder and that the night of Randy's murder, she had gone over to the house and done the chores, but then she'd let her son in the house and she'd left him there to lie and wait for Randy to come home and kill him. In fact, that wasn't the first attempt to kill Randy that they had made. Those incidents where Randy had been falling asleep behind the wheel, they weren't related to his health conditions at all, his heart at all. They had been slipping him overdoses of his medication, hoping he would die in a car accident. Oh. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. According to Carol, Kelly Baker had been the mastermind of this whole murder plot. Well, sure. You're not going to take credit. And had wanted Randy dead because she believed that he would never leave her alone. They could get divorced, but he'd still, you know, always be there bugging her. Really? That's what Carol said. It wasn't that she wanted to split. She wanted to.

Oh, it's interesting that you say that. So it turns out that maybe that wasn't that she wanted to split. She wanted to. Oh, it's interesting that you say that. So it turns out that maybe that wasn't the entire motive. Detectives also found out that, you know, there was $10,000 in life insurance. But there was also several other life insurance policies. There we go. Almost $130,000 that Kelly was the beneficiary of. that Kelly was the beneficiary of. And also the couple's house, because they were still technically married,

would go to Kelly and it was valued at like $400,000. Yeah. So that's making a lot more sense. Carol gives all this information to the police. She tells them that she didn't really realize what was happening until it was too late. Maybe she'd been manipulated a little bit. She called herself like dimwitted or. Yeah.

And then she was like, I think I need a lawyer. And they're like, oh, well, you know what? Here's proof she is dimwitted. She should have said that at the very beginning. And they're like, oh, you do. And she's like, yeah, I think I need a lawyer. And they're like, okay, great, you're under arrest for a conspiracy to commit murder.

Fun fact, Kelly was also arrested around that same time and the police intentionally walked them by each other in the hall of the police station so that they would each think the other one was talking. But really, only Carol was.

Kelly stayed quiet. She didn't talk at all. She got a lawyer. Didn't say shit. Grizz was taken into custody outside of a house that he was living at in Denver. He, like, came home and, like, the police were everywhere. And he, like, ran to the garage, ditched a gun that he had on him and then – Ditched it in the garage?

He did. He like had it on a belt. He like dropped the belt in the garage and then came out and like gave himself up. Initially, he didn't talk at all either. They held him in custody for like seven months before he eventually told them that he was the person who had pulled the trigger. Wow. Did he say why he used two different guns? Oh, so this is fun.

According to Keith Morrison, it's just how he rolls. Really? Yeah, he always had two guns on him. And so it wasn't even really the initial plan, according to Grizz. It wasn't even really the initial plan, according to Grizz. This is what he told them when he started talking, was that he actually had a bunch of Randy's medication crushed up into a powder. He had it in his pocket. He was going to drug him.

But Randy came home earlier than he house and he just panicked. He shot him behind the ear and then he fell to the ground. He realized he wasn't dead. And so he got out his bigger handgun and shot him again. Wow. Mm-hmm. Shot him again. Wow.

Mm-hmm. I mean, if he'd stuck with that original plan, they probably would have gotten away with this. Yep. Yeah. Oh, that's chilling. Yep. He said that he now believed that he'd been manipulated by Carol and Kelly. They had told him that Randy was abusive.

See, I just don't think he could be manipulated because he's part of the white race. I was like, where the fuck are you going with this? Yeah, he said that they had led him to believe that Randy was abusive and that Kelly needed to get out of a bad situation. Kelly was going to pay him $10,000 and give him Randy's Harley Davidson.

$10,000 to murder your uncle? Your uncle who's been the only father figure you've ever known in your life. He also, during this confession that he gave the police, he said, you know, I really just need to clear Randy's name and let everyone know that he is a great man. Oh. Mm-hmm. God. Oh. Mm-hmm. God. Yeah. Carol and Grizz both took plea deals.

Carol pled guilty to conspiracy to commit murder in the first degree and was sentenced to 30 years in prison. So initially she entered a guilty plea and then she withdrew her guilty plea and then took a plea deal. But 30 years was the maximum allowed with the plea deal. At her sentencing, the judge, Judge Shannon Lyons, said, if anyone should have put this plan to a stop, it should have been you. Instead, you were the glue that held this conspiracy together. The judge went on to say, I think what is fair is that you die in prison you didn't kill a stranger you killed your brother if you kill your brother who won't you kill well and you had your son do it yeah yeah grizz pled guilty to first degree murder and received a sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole.

He also agreed to testify against Kelly Baker, who had pled not guilty. But when Kelly's trial began in May of 2019, Grizz was feeling a lot less chatty. His memory wasn't as good. chatty. His memory wasn't as good. They put him on the stand and they were like okay, you know, tell us about the plan between your mom and Kelly and you. And he's like

I don't remember. Wait, you just said he took a plea deal. Yeah. He pled guilty. But then when he got on But isn't part of the deal that you have to like get up there and tell the damn story? I mean, he got life in prison.

He doesn't have anything to lose. Yeah. Oh, that's true. That's true. That's true. Yeah. So he took the stand and they were like, okay, tell us about the plan. He was like, I don't remember.

Fuck. And so the prosecutor says, okay, so were you paid $10,000 to kill your uncle? I just don't remember. Give me a break. OK, but you received a Harley-Davidson motorcycle in exchange for the murder, correct? And there was this long pause. And then he said, I received a Harley-Davidson motorcycle. Oh, my God.

This was not great for the prosecution. His testimony was crucial to showing that Kelly was part of this plot. But he had already confessed previously. Correct. So they played his confession. They played his recorded confession. It's not that bad. Yeah.

And Carol testified and she was more willing to talk. She talked about the plan, how it had been in place for months. They had all of the text messages between Kelly and Carol and Grizz. But the prosecution wondered without Grizz being willing to say, yes, I did it because Kelly and my mom asked me to. yes, I did it because Kelly and my mom asked me to. They worried that the jury wouldn't maybe understand or believe the murder plot. They weren't worried. It didn't go how they wanted it to. Really?

Yeah. I mean, well, I mean, as far as him testifying, yeah, they were worried when he got up there and wouldn't say what they thought he would. Pish posh. So they put up their case and then it's the defense's turn. And their case was simple. Kelly had no idea about this murder plot. She didn't know anything about it. Yep.

And she took the stand in her own defense. Oh, yes, please. Yeah. Oh, yes, please. Yeah. She said, you know, she didn't know anything about a murder plot and that she was just as stunned as everyone else when she discovered Randy's body that morning. She talked about their marriage and how it had started off really great and their family life had been wonderful. But then as Randy's health worsened, you know, she became just basically his caretaker and had gotten old.

And he'd gotten mean. She was done with it. She did pretty well on the stand. But under cross-examination, the prosecutors were able to tie Kelly to the whole scheme with a pesky $420 check. Okay. risky $420 check. Okay. So the prosecution was able to show the jury a text message that Randy had sent to Kelly the day he was murdered, saying that he had a $420 check with him.

It was in his wallet and he was bringing it home. He texts that to Kelly. bringing it home. He texts that to Kelly. And then the day that Randy's body was discovered, later that afternoon, Kelly had cashed that $420 check. But how had she gotten it? Because his wallet was missing along with his car. Oh, that's so good.

So she's on the stand, right? And they're talking. They're bringing this about. And they're like, you know, here's the check. Here's the text messages. Here is it being cashed at 346 in the afternoon. The day that Randy's body was discovered. Yeah.

And so the prosecutor's like, okay. So you cashed a $420 check, right? And Kelly said, yes. And she said, a check from a dead man's wallet, right? And Kelly said, a check from a dead man's wallet, right? And Kelly said, correct. And the prosecutor said, a wallet that was missing, right? And Kelly said, right. And the prosecutor said, from a car that was stolen, correct?

Stolen by a killer, right? A killer who shot your husband. Correct? In a murder you claim you had nothing to do with. Right? And then the prosecutor turned and looked at the judge and said, I'm done with this witness, judge. Oh, man!

That is good. That is good. The trial in all lasted about three weeks, and the jury deliberated for just about a day before they found 49-year-old Kelly Baker guilty of first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder. She was sentenced like immediately following and the judge told her this family lost someone they relied on who was the rock of this family. This was nothing but an evil, selfish and greedy act. nothing but an evil, selfish, and greedy act. You took away a grandfather, a dad, and a great friend to many. There is nothing that will ever justify the murder of your husband. And then the judge sentenced Kelly to life in prison without the possibility of parole for the first-degree murder

charge, and then he added another 48 years for the conspiracy to commit first-degree murder charge and then he added another 48 years for the conspiracy to commit first-degree murder charge. At her sentencing, Kelly said, you know, I don't know what it is at this time. I don't understand it but I know that God has a plan for me. Okay. And that's the story of the murder of Randy Baker. Wow. Wow. Yeah. I think if God had planned it, the plan would not be to kill your husband.

Probably not. Yeah, I'm willing to bet. Yeah. Ugh. Yeah. That was – oof. That grosses me out. I know. Having your son kill his uncle.

The prosecution really painted Kelly as like the puppet master here. Sorry, I just hit the whole mic. The puppet master, she befriended Carol who was a self-described dimwitted and used her in order to gain access to her less than scrupulous son to pull off

this whole thing. Yeah, it sucks. Yeah. Yep. All right. All right. Hated that. Hated it.

Should we take some questions from our Discord? Absolutely we should. Ooh. I'm curious about this question. Okay, well, first of all, how do you get into the Discord? To get into the Discord, all you have to do is join our Patreon at the $5 level or higher. And then when we record, we ask for questions and we pick a few to answer. Okay, here's a question I want to know the answer to.

Brandon Lewis asks, Brandy, I like wearing wigs sometimes, but I don't know where to get them. Where can guys look for them? And is it weird if I were to buy a lady wig and ask a hairdresser to cut and style it for me? Okay. I don't necessarily know that that's weird, but you should ask a stylist who is trained in that because it cuts differently than hair. And there's also a risk because once you cut the wig, it's not going to grow back like regular hair. And so you really need a wig stylist specifically. Somebody brought in a wig and

asked me to cut it unless they wanted something very minor, like a little bit of length off and a little bit of texturing. I would tell them no. Okay. But as far as where to buy wigs, see, I think this is so hard because I think you would want to find a wig shop in your area because I think you want to be able to try it on. Yeah. I would think so. Yeah. That's my take. What about Party City? They do sell wigs.

The quality I don't think is quite going to be what you're looking for. I see. Yes. Suck worker Cassie says, Brandy, blow dry or air dry? Okay, so I obviously blow dry people's hair all day long, but I almost never blow dry my own hair. Are you serious? When I wash my hair, because I only wash it like every four or five days. Right.

I wash it at night and then I go to bed with it wet. Fuck you. Kristen! And then I style it in the morning. Seriously? Yeah. I know. It's rude. Everything about you is rude everyone just a little little update on my face i i am currently experiencing a full-on

breakout you look beautiful well i always do but now I've got a full-on fucking breakout. Meanwhile, this bitch over here. You don't blow dry your hair? It just does that? Well, then I have to curl it in the morning. Well, yeah, I understand. Yeah, that probably takes, you know, upwards of ten minutes. That's right.

Anyway, I'm very happy for you. So I wash it and I brush it out, put my product in it, kind of do like a little, you know, tassel and then I just go to bed. Great. Good for you. Good for you. Okay. Frosty, not milkshake. You've asked this multiple times.

I think I've answered it before, but maybe not. Are we allowed to know what David does for a living? David works for my dad. Haven't I talked about that on the show before? Yeah. David works for my dad. Her voice goes higher every time. Why did my voice get high?

Also, for us to do not milkshake, said I have suspicions. He's a mechanic. How dare you? Yeah. No. No. Not a mechanic. No mechanics here.

No. Certainly no mechanics. All mechanics are dead to us. That's right. That's going to seem really weird and out of context. But some guy named Rusty is like, what? What's wrong with me? Nothing's wrong with you, Rusty.

No, Rusty, you're great. Ooh, Towerscope Pong says, what's your nightly getting ready for bed routine? Oh, let me be Brandy for a second. Well, I just like lay down and fall asleep. Yeah. Okay, so I go up to

bed. I put my pajamas on. I put my watch on the charger, plug my phone in. I do one little last check of London's baby monitor, make sure she's sleeping peacefully. And then I lay down and go to sleep. Full face of makeup.

Earrings intact. Wet hair every fifth day. That's right. What do you do? Do you really want to know? Yeah. Alright's right. What do you do? Do you really want to know? Yeah. All right.

All right. So here's the process, okay? Okay. I want to be one of those people who, like, puts lotion all over their skin right before they go to bed and, like... Well, you can be.

No. Just put lotion on your skin. I have lotion on my nightstand and I don't fucking do it. But you want to? Yeah. You're too shy? No, I feel like that person has their life together better than I do.

Listen, if you've got skin like that and hair like that and that's all you're doing, don't change a thing. All right. That's fine. Anyway, here's what I do. Okay, I go. I change into pajamas. Yeah right. That's fine. Anyway, here's what I do. Okay, I go. I change into pajamas. I'm nothing like you. I don't remove one article at a time.

I get fully nude. Yeah. Whabam. Tits out. Yeah. Then I select my pajamas. Yeah. I go into my bathroom.

I'm there for quite a while. I select a scrunchie that matches my pajamas. Yeah. Okay. Throw the hair out. Pineapple. Pineapple it. Mm-hmm.

Okay. Is it embarrassing to go through all my steps? No, I want to know. I'm legitimately interested to know what your routine looks like. Okay. Oil cleanser first. Okay. What's an oil cleanser?

It's oil that cleanses your face. You have products I've never even heard of before. So that's the first cleanse. Okay. Okay. You do multiple cleanses? Brandy. Yes.

Oh, God. Okay. So I cleanse with an oil cleanser all over. Yeah. Rinse that off. Then I get another cleans cleanser a little more hardcore okay rub that all on the skin then i have this like facial massager tool oh yeah that like yeah do you roll it is it a rolly no no it's not the rolly we're not there yet it's like it's like a

little vibrating brush thing it's not it's not a no it's for the face only it's not a, no. It's for the face only. It's not a Clarisonic. Anyway, so I cleanse, cleanse, cleanse. Rinse all that off. Then I take off my eye makeup, which is already pretty, you know,

pretty done. So take that off. What do you take that off with? Micellar water? That's exactly correct. All right. Okay. Then I just let it, wait a minute. What do you do? I let my skin dry off a bit. Okay. I just stand there. How wet are your pajamas by this point? They are not wet. I'm not like a whale jumping into the ocean. Are you like a Neutrogena commercial where you're just like splashing water? I'm laughing. No. I'm a pro. From there, it depends

on the night. Now, I do have my medication, my tretinoin. I don't even know how to pronounce it. You have to get your face super dry before you put that on. Super dry. Don't even know how to pronounce it you have to get your face like super dry before you put that on yeah super dry yes don't even let like the slightest bit of moisture be on there okay so i do that you know sparingly the neck the forehead okay you know my whole face okay got it

then i will do like a super thick cereveVe moisturizer. Slug that on there. Okay. I've got an eye cream. Oh, Lord. Okay. And then I let that set in. You just look like a slug at the end of this? Yeah, a sexy slug.

Then I let that set in. And then I get my jade roller and I roll all over my face. Do you do a lip scrub? No. You know, my lips I put on chapstick. That you do a lip scrub? No. You know, my lips, I put on chapstick. That's all they get. All right.

Brush my teeth, floss, mouthwash. Okay. There we go. That's it. I do brush my teeth before I go to bed. Well, yeah. I mean, I – Or I go to the bathroom. That's the first thing I do.

I go to the bathroom, brush my teeth, and then my vagina is funny. I guess that's – yeah. That goes without saying. Yeah. You don't just piss the bed down. What would be better? You know, you seem to just kind of jump into bed. Uh-huh. I do my 37-step skincare routine and then I just piss myself in bed because I've run out

of time. That's right. There's no time. That's a lot of steps. I kind of enjoy it though. I mean, your skin looks great. No, it doesn't. I've got a full, you know, breakout happening all on the lower half of my face.

It's okay, though. I am more than my pimples. I'm also an asshole. That's what matters. That's right. My bad personality. Thank you for sharing all those steps with us. We're going to have to cut that.

That's so boring. No, people love that. They want to know all your steps. Ray Loves Dogs wants to know, pizza rolls or pizza bagels? Don't make me choose. No, pizza rolls all the way. I do like bagel bites, but. Well, yeah, who doesn't?

Yeah. But if I had to pick one or the other, I'm picking pizza rolls. When I was in my early 20s, I always had a bag of pizza rolls in the freezer. I was a grown-ass adult. What? You haven't of pizza rolls in the freezer. Yeah. I was a grown-ass adult. What, you don't, you haven't eaten pizza rolls since? No. You haven't? I ate pizza rolls

last week. You did? Yeah! I mean, I love pizza rolls, but yeah, I haven't had them in like years and years and years. You should get yourself a pizza roll. It's good.

Yeah, I would come home from work. Hard day of reporting the news. And I'd heat up some pizza rolls in the microwave and make myself a side salad. I'm sorry. In the microwave? I had no time. They don't get crispy that way. They're still good, though. No.

They gotta get crispy. I cook them extra, because I want them real crispy on the outside. Yeah, but then it's a dangerous game, my friend, because then you bite it, and it's like lava. You have to wait. See, you have... For practice and willpower. No, I don't

have any of that. There's no time. Yeah, you take them out of the oven. I've got to make time for the skincare routine, okay? The reason you're able to wait this long is because you don't have one. Because I don't have a skincare routine. Mm-hmm. Ooh.

Yes, it's me. Calm down, asks. Who has the better butt, David or Norm? Oh. Okay. Okay, David or Norm? Oh. Okay. Not to brag to everyone. Our menfolk, they've got nice butts. They both have good butts.

Yeah. They've got. They both have bulbous booties. Yeah. They do. I have told Norm so many times. If we could, like, take his ass off and have him see it, he would just be jazzed. And I don't mean like an in the mirror kind of way.

No. If he could see it on someone else, he'd be like, whoa. Yeah, he'd really appreciate it. Yeah, David, same way. Very bulbous and it's firm. Yeah, so is Norm. Yeah. It's not as firm as David's.

I've checked. Stop. I recently bought David some new jeans. I got him some American Eagle jeans that actually fit him, how jeans are supposed to – they actually touch his body at some point. Jeans that actually fit him, how jeans are supposed to, you know, they actually touch his body at some point. Was David in kind of a JNCO jean? He was wearing, like, legitimately wearing jeans that were three sizes too big for him. For real? Yeah, when we met, he was wearing jeans, free jeans that were three sizes too big for him.

I told you he would have worn his dead uncle's underwear. They were free brandy. Exactly. What more do you want? And so I got him some American Eagle jeans. They've got like some stretch to them. And he was like, he is really feeling himself in his new jeans. Did he not think?

He's looking at his butt now. He's walking taller. Taking longer strides. Did he not know the magic of wearing pants that fit you? He had no idea. Oh, this poor boy. Oh, Funny Bunny wants to

know, squatty potty, yay or nay? I've never used one. I don't have that many problems. That's exactly how I feel. Stuff's coming out just fine. I remember Norm wanted one a few years ago. Yeah. But we only had one bathroom.

And I was like, no, when guests come, I don't want them. You don't want the squatty potty up there? To me, that just says we've got so many problems. Yeah. But we only had one bathroom. And I was like, no, when guests come, I don't want them. You don't want the squatty potty up there? To me, that just says we've got so many problems. Exactly. I don't know. Maybe I'm talking from a place of extreme privilege where poop just falls right out my ass. But yeah, it's one of those good for you-you-not-for-me situations with the squatty potty.

Wears t-shirts sometimes. Wants to know, how are DP and Sheree Ray doing? What are they up to? Oh, my goodness. Everyone, they have a house now. They are no longer homeless. Stop it. Anyway, my parents have a home now.

They're very excited. My mom is not super excited about the fact that they don't really have furniture in it. So they've got lawn chairs. Oh, yeah. That's not a disharray race. That's not. They have some furniture on order. Oh, yeah. Okay, good. It's coming. They have some furniture on order. Oh, yeah.

Okay, good. It's coming. It's a coming. There are two bedrooms in their house that are fully done. Oh, nice. Do you want to guess which ones? Allie and Henry's rooms. The grandchildren have their own bedrooms fully decorated.

Of course they do. I helped my mom get Allie's room all done. We got it done at Ross. Ooh! I'm about to tell a story that we might have to cut. Okay, tell it. So my mom and I, like, we're going to go to Target, get a few things. Didn't really find anything, blah, blah, blah.

There was a Ross, like, right next door. So we decided we're going to go in there. And she always teases me because every time I set foot in a Ross, I always say the same thing. I never find anything in here. Yeah. But like my sister-in-law randomly finds good dresses there. I think, okay, I think that's the one thing Ross has. Otherwise, it's just TJ Maxx's ugly cousin. Okay. I've always felt the same way. So I was like, we'll go in here, but I sure wish there was a TJ Maxx. Yes.

Well. We went in there. I didn't get a cart, obviously, because I know what's up. It's fucking Ross. Yeah. Lo and behold. Good shit everywhere. Oh, my gosh.

All the stuff you could want for like a little girl's budget. So I was like, oh, my gosh. And we went and grabbed a cart. You don't want to call Allie a little girl. She's a. What? She's not a girl yet, not a woman. She's like, you know, nine.

Yeah, she's 10. Okay, fine She's like, you know, nine. Yeah, she's ten. Okay, fine. Very mature. You know, whatever. I run, grab a cart. We're getting all kinds of things, like cute little signs for her bathroom, little twinkle lights, little, you know, all kinds of stuff. I found a cute rug, blah, blah, blah. My mom had already ordered a comforter for the bedroom that she wasn't thrilled with.

It was coming online in a couple days. But, you know, we're like, well, what if we looked at the comforters here? We were able to just knock this all out in one day. Okay. Amazing. We go. We're starting to look at the comforters. My mom sees one that's like, okay.

I'm like, yeah, it's fine. We're looking through, looking through, looking through. This old ass woman comes up. And she's, you know, I mean, very old. Yeah. And she sees us looking at this one comforter. And I was like, I kind of like this. My mom's like, I kind of like this.

And the little old lady's like, I kind of like it too. And we're all like, ha, ha, ha. Yeah yeah it was a cute moment right yeah okay so the little old lady snagged it out from under you guys grabbed um this other one that like i i mean we didn't have it in the cart yeah them's the rules right that's right so old lady, you know, just grabbed the one that my mom had kind of initially liked. And my mom was just like, oh. That was the one. That was the perfect comforter. It's the comforter that got away.

Right. Okay. Meanwhile, I couldn't even remember what it looked like. And again, I feel like if it had been great, it would be in the cart. Right. Yeah. But anyway, so, you know, my mom and I kind of leave that aisle because the little old lady is just, you know. Yeah.

Doing her victory dance in the comforter aisle. Yeah. She jumped with the air with her heels together. That's right. So, my mom's just devastated. So we're in the

sheets aisle now. We're looking at sheets and she's just shaking her head. She goes, you know what? He who hesitates loses the war.

I said, what? Because I didn't even remember the comforter. And she goes, the comforter. Like, the comforter? He who hesitates loses the war? So it was the perfect cover for Allie's room, Kristen. I get it. Charay-ray.

No, we're not even done. So I'm like, man, my mom's taking this battle on really hard. So I saw, you know, down kind of toward the cash registers were some quilts hanging. I was like, oh, okay. So I go over, I start looking through. I'm just not really seeing anything. My mom comes over

and I see her arms crossed watching the register. I turn. She's mean mugging the old lady who is in the process of buying the comforter. And I was like, Mom, stop mean mugging her. My mom goes, I wasn't mean mugging.

I just wanted to see if she was going to put it back. She's literally buying it. It's not allowed in the car. The lady, my mom, was like, what does that old lady want with that comforter? Maybe she has a granddaughter. That's exactly, like, obvious.

What could she possibly need that comforter for? She did it just to be a bitch. Oh, my gosh. So, everyone, you know, in a way, my parents are doing great. And in a way, my mom has lost the war. She did go to a different Ross the next day and found true. I mean, I'm not just saying this is truly a great, great comforter. Better than that kicks that other comforters.

Again, I don't even remember what it looked like. I just know that it was perfect and it was stolen right out from under our noses. Oh, I hope my mom lets us tell that story. I started making fun of her for that, you know, immediately. Of course. And then I started making fun of my dad for something. And she was like, Daryl, just stop talking.

We're just material for her. Ooh. Stout perennial bear grass. Asks, when do you start decorating for fall? I personally already started because I'm tired of this North Carolina heat and needed something to be happy about. I just ordered fall scents from Bath and Body Works. Do you do this on an annual basis? Absolutely, I do.

What do you order? Wallflowers. And I ordered some hand soaps. Some hand soaps. It's all square weather all the time. What started it was that I needed some new body wash and it was on sale. So I bought some body wash and I was like, ooh. What's this over here? Let me just take a little stroll through their false scents, see if I need any of that.

It turns out I did. Yeah. That's an emergency situation. Several of them. Uh-huh. Leaves, got a couple. I mean, it just smells like fall. It's wonderful.

Okay. Like, I don't know that I want to smell a leaf. Oh, it smells so good. Okay. All right. Yeah. Again, not sponsored. No.

Just Midwestern. Just enjoy the products. Oh, my gosh. DP is my spirit animal. Asks, Brandy, are you going to send London to private preschool? No, I don't have the fucking nuts for that interview process. That scares the hell out of me. And I think they judge me terribly, too.

Well, yeah, that's the whole point. No, thank you. That's so scary. You know what you tell them? You can't judge me. I'm judging you. And you judge them right back. What's the deal for private preschool? I mean, you've got to get on that list while

you're pregnant. deal for private preschool. I mean, you got to get on that list like while you're pregnant. But what do they do with the kids that's so special? Nothing. I don't know. But, you know, you want to get into a good private elementary school, you got to take a good private. Yeah, no, I'm a public school kid and London will also be a public school kid. Yeah, it really shows. I know. Uncultured smile. I tried to bring some class to this podcast and you talk about how you got fingered at

Cheddar's last weekend. It's just terribly upsetting. Oh, no. Oh, the Grace Kelly of not giving a fuck says it's my birthday and all I had to look forward to was signing up for my own health insurance now that I'm 26 do birthdays just get suckier

and suckier the older you get yeah I think there's less and less to look forward to on your birthday so my thing is that I think is that no one should ever have to work on their birthday if at all possible I think people should be able to take the day off for their birthday. Like that's a fun thing to look forward to. All right.

That's what I do. If at all possible, I take my birthday off. OK. Because, yeah, I think there's less and less to look forward to as you get older. And yet signing up for your own health insurance is not exciting. But happy birthday. As you get older and you're signing up for your own health insurance, it's not exciting. No.

But happy birthday. Cinnamon Toast Bitch wants to know, what is your strategy should you ever find yourself on Survivor? Do you play it straight? Do you form fake alliances? What do you do, Brandy? I just try not to get a bug in my ear. I can't be spending time plotting and scheming. I'm going to just be sitting there. I'm terrified.

I would be terrified that a bug was just going to get in my ear or in my vagina or some other orifice, butthole. Where are they going? Where else do they go? I tell you what. Okay. What if we guarantee you a scenario where you don't even see a bug? Okay. And also they don't go in any of your holes.

Okay. Now. Now that you can relax. Okay. What would be your strategy? Yeah. My strategy would be just to be like super friendly with everyone. That's not going to fucking cut it.

What more can you do? Would you make the fake alliances? Yeah, probably. No, I'd be too nervous. I don't think you could. I don't think I could do it. I think you'd be like old school survivor where it's just about loyalty and friendship and good times. Yeah, it would be.

Yeah, I don't – I couldn't handle it. I'd be too stressed. What would you do? What's your gameplay? Oh, God. Also, where do you poop? They do an aqua dump. In the ocean?

Yeah. That's what they're doing? Yeah. I don't like that. Are you, again, thinking something's going to crawl up your hole? Yeah. Like as soon as the poop comes out, something else is going to go back in? Yeah.

An eel? Yeah, an eel, a crab, cling on to my butthole. Just like grab one labia. I don't know if it's a bad news. Look, Mom, I finally got one. A labia. I'm not outdoorsy. It's not for me. And, I mean, I love how you're chuckling over there, Miss Beekeeper Suit, every time you're outside.

Yeah, I mean, the truth is, I would just, I would be terrible at any reality show ever. I enjoy watching. I would hate to be a part of any of it. Can't do it. Oh, Alpha Badass wants to know, Brandy, what's the craziest thing that's ever happened in your salon chair? This is a question I have to ask all hairstylists after my water broke while getting my hair done. Oh, my gosh. I had somebody who was having like really intense contractions while I was doing it.

And she wanted you to finish? Yeah. Pressure was on. Yeah, she was going to have yeah because she just wanted on yeah she like she was gonna have the baby like the next day like she was supposed to be going into the hospital the next day and i was like okay she's like my doctor says it's okay my doctor says i'm fine she's like yeah i am having pretty intense contractions and i was like, okay, let's go. I mean, that might be as wild as it's gotten. I've never had anybody experience like a medical emergency or anything like that.

Although there was that one guy who asked me to shave his entire back. So that's pretty wild, too. Will you tell that story? Yeah, So this gentleman came in for a haircut. And I did his haircut. And then I was like, you know, trimming up his little fuzzies on his neck. And he like tilted his head down. He said, can you go down? Can you go down further?

And I said, oh, I'm sorry. I can only go down, you know, to the collar. That's, you know, all we're allowed to do. And he's like, oh, okay. I understand. But I desperately want to do more, she that's not with her eyes no so great whatever he pays for his hair cut his leave that's the first time i'd ever cut his hair like this was like a walk-in haircut place that i worked at at the time and so like you know whatever guy comes

back a few weeks later for another haircut this time he has a scoop neck tank top on. And I'm going to clean up his neck and he goes can you go down further in the back now? Gosh, he's back shaved. Dear God.

And I had to explain to him that it didn't really matter where the shirt itself actually stops. We have to stop at, like, the natural collar line. Was that embarrassing to explain? Yeah, it was awkward to explain. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, we don't do body shaving here, sir. You almost wanted to point him in the direction of Craigslist. That is right.

I'm sure someone would be into this. All right. Shall we move on to Supreme Court inductions? Let's do it. This week we are continuing to read your names and your favorite cookies. And Brandy is not at the right place. I was going to say, are we? Because I don't even know where my fucking induction list is.

What? Ma'am? What's this? Episode 222? Sure is. Woo! Triple two! All right. Did you already say the thing that we were continuing to read their names Sure is. Woo! Triple two! Oh, right.

Did you already say the thing that we were continuing to read their names and favorite cookies? I sure did. Okay, great. Erin M. Peanut butter. Jasmine P. Sweet Martha's from the State Fair.

Oh, is this the bucket of cookies at the State Fair? I think it is. I have no idea. Oh my gosh. I saw this on TV somewhere. It is like, if this is, so somebody says it's a Minneapolis exclusive. I think that you go to the State Fair and you get a bucket. Yeah, I understand what a bucket is.

Of warm chocolate chip cookies. I mean, that does sound great. Sounds amazing. Fat asset. My own personal frosted butter cookies. And I sell them too. Oh shit, That sounds good. Esther Pants.

Chocolate chip cookies with walnuts. Rebecca McGregor. Chocolate mint crinkle. Catherine C. Snoop Dogg's Rolls Royce peanut butter chocolate chip cookies. Oh. What is that? I want that.

Delicious. Abby. Chocolate with Andy's Mints. Oh, yeah. Halidia. My Famous Chocolate Chip Cookies Made with Pudding Mix. Okay. Melissa T.

Underbaked Chocolate Chip. Alexia Marcella. Honey Cookie. What's a honey cookie? I don't know. I don't trust it, though. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

All right, I'll get to the bottom of this. Chrissy Kersey. I like penguins. What? Oh. It's a type of cookie, chocolate cookie sandwich here in the UK, which comes with a penguin joke on the wrapper. I thought it was like that kid in that clip.

I like turtles. That's exactly what I was thinking. Also, Chrissy, I like saying your name. Chrissy Kersey. Lauren. I like turtles. That's exactly what I was thinking. Also, Chrissy, I like saying your name. Chrissy Chrissy. Lauren. Oh, sorry. Lauren Peters. I thought they were Peters chocolate chip cookies.

I know. Sorry, Lauren Peters. Oatmeal chocolate chip cookies. Deanna. Half moon cookies. Alisa. Magianos lemon cookies. Michelle O'Linger.

Frozen Girl Scout thin mints. Angela Grubel. Iced sugar cookies. Lindsay Hicks. The kind that have sugar in them, but no nuts. Ashley Avancic. My grandma's chocolate chip cookies. Welcome to the

Supreme Court! Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Thank you, everyone, for all of your support. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Patreon. Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen

and then head on over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a five-star rating and review. And then be sure to join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned! And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then

regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web, and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. I got my info from an episode of Obsession, Dark Desires, titled Home Sweet Hell. And the article, Obsession with House He Lost Was Death of Dallas Man, by Selwyn Crawford and Tanya Iserer for the Dallas Morning News.

I got my info from an episode of Dateline, an episode of On the Case with Paula Zahn, and articles for Oxygen, the Weld County DA, the Coloradoan, and NBC9 News. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go. Read their stuff.