Let's Go To Court! - 223: Threatening Messages & an Airplane Pooper

Episode Date: August 17, 2022

Being the head of security for a televangelist can be pretty scary… apparently. In late 2008, Chris Coleman received a threatening email. The writer was upset with his boss, Joyce Meyer. They wrote that if Joyce didn’t stop preaching the “bullshit,” they would kill Chris. If not Chris, they might kill his wife, Sheri and their sons Garett and Gavin. Chris had no idea who could have sent the message. Like, literally no idea. And he was the head of security. Then Kristin tells us about Gerard Finneran, who boarded a flight from Buenos Aires to New York City, eager to knock back some drinks. He drank several, then got up to serve himself even more. The flight attendants informed him that passengers weren’t allowed to serve themselves drinks. (Duh.) Later, they cut Gerard off. He didn’t take it well. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Boorish biz flier rode no class,” by Linda Stasi for the Daily News “Passenger accused of defecating on airliner pleads guilty to making a threat,” by Larry Neumeister for the Associated Press “United Airlines Flight 976,” entry on Wikipedia Gerard Finneran’s obituary  In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “The Writing on the Wall” episode 48 Hours “A Family Erased: The Chris Coleman Story” by Jeanette Cooperman, St Louis Magazine “The Conflicted Christian” by AJ Wiseman, Medium “Shocking messages: An Illinois man’s secret life ended in the 2009 murder of his family” by Kevin S. Held, Fox2 News “People v. Coleman” findlaw.com YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 35+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll be talking about the airplane pooper. And I'll be talking about some threatening messages.

Mmm. Mmm. Is this about the guy who pooped his pants on your flight? You're just really... Yeah, and I sued him for being disgusting. No, that guy didn't mean to poop his pants. You could tell. You could tell.

You could see the shame in his eyes. Was it accidental pants pooping? But let me tell you. Are you going to tell us about an intentional plane pooper? You're going to have to wait. I will wait. I will keep my pants on. Dear God, please do.

This guy didn't. More on that later. Am I right? That's right. Everybody look out. We're two cocktails deep. We are two cocktails. They were so good.

You messed up with that cucumber pepper thing. Everyone, I ordered a cucumber cocktail. It sounded really good. They garnished it with cracked black pepper. Yeah. It's a weird choice. Meanwhile, Norm and I had these delicious blackberry cocktails.

You were so jealous. Anyway. You got one. Yeah. That's the end of that story. And now to bring ourselves back up. Brandi has an energy drink. I have an iced coffee and an iced tea.

Norm gave me this energy drink that tastes like orange Starburst. Oh, no. It tastes like red Starburst. I'm literally looking at the chaos. I know. You were acting like you were reading that. Oh, my gosh. It's really good. I acting like you were reading that. Oh my God. It's really good.

I had two sips and it's gone straight to my head. Woo-hoo. Hey, you want to talk about our Patreon? Oh yeah, we could. Yeah.

Let's do it. We got a whole Patreon. You could check it out if you wanted to. It's a good way to support the show. Plus, I feel like this episode is off

to a weird start. It is off to a weird start. I'm sorry. I'm not rallying at all. So if you want to support the show. Plus, I feel like this episode is off to a weird start. It is off to a weird start. I'm sorry. I'm not rallying at all. Yeah. So if you want to support the show and get exciting extra content, head on over to patreon.com slash LGTC podcast. What kind of exciting content is there?

At the $5 level, you get a monthly bonus episode. Plus, you get into the Discord to chitty-chat the day away with other lovers of Let's Go to Court. Or some people who just find it okay, but, you know, it's a way to pass time. And Brandi, these bonus episodes, are they wimpy little things? No, they're full-blown

meaty boys! Why would the emphasis on boys like that? I don't know, but I love that you did. By the way, also, everyone at the $7 level. That's right. That's the Supreme Court. What? Left you hanging.

You certainly did. That's where you get inducted onto this podcast. You get all the stuff that the previous level got. Okay, so don't get upset. Calm down. You get all the stuff that the previous level got. Okay, so don't get upset. You get that stuff too. Calm down. You get a Zoom call with us.

That's right. Oh, can't put a price tag on that. No. Except for we did. It's at $7 a month. Yeah. And then at the $10 level. We didn't even talk about

the card and the sticker. Oh, well, you get a card and a sticker. People like that. Boy, this is rough. This is a rough start to an episode. Woo. Woo. Woo. Woo. Then if that's not enough for you, and it's probably

not, we got a whole nother level. It's the Bob Moss level. Yeah, you fucking say it this time because I said Supreme Court all by myself. Oh, was that some heavy lifting for you? No, we're just kind of embarrassing. At the Bob Moss level, you get... Woo!

All that stuff we previously listed. Plus, you get ad-free episodes and you get them a day early. Woo! That's for the low, low price of $10. Yeah. Do you know what $10 will get you? One gallon of gas. Oh, that's Biden's America, people.

That's right. Or a whole month on our Patreon at the Bob Mousel level. Yeah, so you decide what you want to do. Great. That's a terrible ad. Expertly done. Okay, that was an ad for us. Now let's do an ad for someone else. You want to talk about some threatening messages?

I'm sorry. I just took a drink and made a fart noise with my mouth. I just want the record to reflect that that was not my butt. And we know that's true because we've heard her butt making noises before. What? Everyone, Brandi's talking crazy again. Threatening messages, huh? Yes.

Am I going to enjoy this? Oh, great. Someone dies. Okay, I'm not going to enjoy it. You'll enjoy parts of it and then parts – okay. Couple of shout outs. First, I watched episode 48 hours. Called The Writing on the Wall, which doesn't really give anything away.

So I was going to – Is the threatening message written on a wall? Is it – you'll have to listen and find out. Okay. The second shout out. Why did I get stuck there? Because this is a rough one. I can just tell it's a rough one already, folks. Also, shout out to Jeanette Cooperman for St. Louis Magazine.

Huge, amazing piece on this case in St. Louis Magazine. And then also A.J. Wiseman for his article for Medium. Very good. You ready? Yeah. I don't think you're ready for this, Julie. Everyone. What? Christine had to prove Norm and I wrong. She was making noises, calling herself Beyonce. And we're like, Beyonce doesn't make that noise. And then she played the song and Beyonce did make the noise. But Kristen sounded like she was on the toilet and Beyonce sounded hot. It doesn't matter.

The question was, did Beyonce make that kind of noise? And she kind of did. Anyway, here we go. Kind of did. Anyway, here we go. It was 6.42 a.m. on May 5th, 2009, when Sergeant Justin Barlow, a detective with the Columbia, Illinois Police Department, was awoken by his ringing phone. He glanced at the clock. He'd been up like three hours earlier trying to rock his six-month-old baby back to sleep. And then he glanced at the caller ID on his phone.

It was his neighbor, Chris Coleman. Detective Barlow lived right across the street from Chris and his wife Sherry and their two sons, Garrett and Gavin. But he didn't really know them. He waved at them in passing. Thank you for miming waving. You're welcome. I had no idea what that was. But that had been their only interaction until recently when he'd been made aware by another police officer, police officer, that the family had been receiving threats. receiving threats. The threats had started the previous fall, November 14th, 2008, to be exact.

So Chris Coleman was actually the head of security for world-renowned televangelist Joyce Meyer. Oh, man. Are you familiar with Joyce Meyer? Yeah. Her hair hasn't changed in decades. It has not. I think she could whip her head around and it wouldn't move. Well, of course not. That's a helmet. Yeah. You ever watch her? No. You ever seen her? Yeah. I've never watched her either. But I'm familiar. Yeah. I'm familiar with her too. She also writes books. Well, yeah, they all do. Yeah. Anyway, so he was the head of her security and it seemed that someone was unhappy with Joyce and the messages she was spreading through her ministry. The first message came in the form of an email. It was sent from the email address destroychris at gmail.com.

And it was sent to Chris's work email address and then the person had also cc'd Joyce Meyer and her son. The subject line said, Chris's family. They are dead. And then had three exclamation points at the end. That's how you know they're serious. That's right. The email read, I'm sure this will make it to someone in the company. If you jackasses are like

any other company, this will be someone's account. Pass this on to Chris. Tell Joyce to stop preaching the bullshit or Chris's family will die. If I can't get to Joyce, then I will get to someone close to her.

And if I can't get to him, then I will kill his someone close to her. And if I can't get to him, then I will kill his wife and kids. I know Joyce's schedule, so then I know Chris's schedule. If Joyce doesn't quit preaching the bullshit, then they will die. During the Houston conference, I will kill them all as they sleep. If I don't hit then, I will kill them during the book tour or the trip to India. I know where he lives and I know they are alone. Fuck them all. They will die soon.

Tell that motherfucker next time to let me talk to Joyce. She needs to hear what I have to say and now she will. This was super alarming to Chris Coleman and to the, Kristen, why does your face look like that? Because I'm beautiful. Okay. Oh my God. Stop. No, I think that's really weird. Yeah. It's a super weird email. So why do you think it's weird? Well, I mean, I have many reasons to think it's weird, but I know a lot more about this case. So, OK, well, I know nothing about the case. Why do you think it's weird?

My immediate thing is you're saying you hate Joyce. You're saying stop the bullshit. I would expect for it to be like, here are these specific things that I hate about what Joyce is doing or saying. I also think if you're that mad at Joyce, why aren't you threatening her more directly? Yeah. Or like her. Not that I'm trying to give ideas. Yeah.

Like her family. Yeah. Why are you threatening Chris's family? Yeah. So this doesn't pass the old sniff test. Sniff test. Yeah. So Chris was super alarmed by this email.

Obviously it went to Joyce as well. So they had like a little meeting about it and they reported the email to the police. And the police it seems took it seriously. They said that they would up patrols in the family's neighborhood. But like other than that, there wasn't a lot they could do. And the messages kept coming. Another email came in and it included more threats. One said they were sick of Meyers' pampered ass flying all over the world,

and it insinuated that she stole money from hardworking people to live a life of luxury. So to me, this is more to your point. Like, okay, we're pointing out things that we're specifically unhappy with Joyce about. Yeah. Yeah. Worth noting, Joyce Meyer at this time had an estimated annual income of 50 to 100 million dollars a year. Fuck these Uh-huh. Wow. So a couple of these emails came in and then in January of 2009, it escalated. A note was hand-delivered to the Coleman's mailbox and it read in part – Was it delivered by the mailman? It was not.

Oh, then it's alarming. Yes. It was not sent through the mail. It just like wound up in the mailbox. No, I meant like I was being a total dick. You were? Yeah. I didn't even get it.

You said a note was hand delivered to the mailbox. I just meant like. No, not by the fucking mailman, Kristen. I know. I was being an asshole to you. But you were too dumb to understand. Don't say that. Everyone, Brandi's very smart.

But if you want to mess with her, call her dumb. Anyway, this note read in part, fuck you. Deny your God publicly or else. Oh. No more opportunities. Time is running out for you and your family. It was after this message was delivered that Detective Barlow, so the neighbor across the street, learned what his neighbors were going through. And at that time, he offered to put a security camera on his house,

pointed directly at the Coleman's mailbox. And for a while, all was quiet. The emails stopped coming. There were no more messages for a while. How long is a while? A couple of months. Oh, okay. Like four months.

Oh, shit. Yeah. Oh, okay. Like four months. Oh, shit. Yeah. But then on April 27th, the Colemans received a final warning. It read,

I am giving you the last warning. You have not listened to me and you have not changed your ways. I have warned you to stop traveling and to stop carrying on with this fake religious life of stealing people's money. You think you are so special to do what you do, protecting or think you are protecting her. She is a bitch and not worth what you're doing. Stop today or else. I know your schedule. You can't hide from me ever. This is so weird.

I'm always watching. I know when you leave in the morning and I know when you stay home. I saw you leave this morning. I will be watching. You better stop traveling and doing what you are doing. This is my last warning. All in caps. Your worst

nightmare is about to happen. What the? After this message was received, they checked the security camera that the neighbor had set up and it did capture a figure walking to the mailbox. But it was dark and the figure was dressed like in a dark hoodie.

So there was just no chance of identifying this person. Did they try enhancing the image? They did. They were like, enhance. Enhance. Enhance. And? Well?

No, it was just still a dude in a hoodie, like with his back to the camera. It's too bad. Yeah. So now we're back to 6.42 a.m. on May 5th, 2009, when Detective Barlow was woken up by that phone call from Chris Coleman. Barlow answered the phone and Chris told him that he'd left the house that morning to go to the gym, but that since he'd left, he'd been unable to reach his wife, Sherry. He'd called her multiple times to try and wake her up and let her know that it was time to get the kids up, but all of his calls had gone unanswered. Oh, my God.

He did this to himself. He killed his family. He did this to himself. I guess we'll have to listen together and find out, Kristen. No, we won't. I think I figured it out. He's the guy in the surveillance footage. Chris told the detective that he was worried and he asked him if he could go over to his house and check on his family.

He said he was also on his way back, but he was still about five minutes away. No, that doesn't. It's super fucking weird. So Detective Barlow did just as he was asked. He threw on some clothes, he grabbed his service weapon, his cuffs, his radio, and he called for backup. He was on the Coleman's front porch when a backup officer arrived on scene. The officer kind of walked up to him and Detective Barlow was like, nobody's answering the door. And so the other officer was like, I'll walk around the back and check the back. And so he walks around and like a couple seconds later, he radios Detective Barlow and he's like, you got to come back here. There's a window

open and the screen is out. And so the detective joined the other officer around the back of the house and they went in through that window. They cleared the basement and then they started going up the stairs. As they climbed the stairs to the main floor of the house, they smelled a strong odor. the house, they smelled a strong odor. And as they got on the first floor, they were able to see that what they were smelling was spray paint. There were messages sprayed in red spray paint all over the walls of the first floor. Punished was written across the kitchen breakfast area. I am always watching was sprayed on another wall. And up the staircase you have paid was sprayed. No.

Yes, all of those things are in fact on the walls, Kristen. I'm just registering my skepticism. When it feels like a movie, it's probably not 100 percent real. Yeah. So these two officers are in the house clearing the scene. They've made it to the first floor. They found all of the messages and they see that the words are leading up the stairs. So they decide to make their way up the stairs.

Why do I have a lisp all of a sudden? I do not know. These are the things I do not know. I mean, I do know this guy murdered his whole family. As they are about to. And then spray painted his house. As they are about to go up the stairs, Chris Coleman pulls up outside. Other officers have arrived on the scene at this point and they keep him outside. Worth noting,

it's been 13 minutes since he called Detective Barlow and he said he was five minutes away. Fucking liar. Well, maybe, you know, on the way to check on your family, like stop at Starbucks or something.

You don't want to be under caffeinated. That's right. So they keep him outside and he doesn't protest. He's like, okay, no problem. I'll wait here on the stairs. Yeah. Because he sat down on the front porch. If I'm wrong about this guy, this is going to be terrible because I am talking mad shit.

But I mean, yeah, he doesn't need to go in. He knows what's going on. So he has like a nice little seat on the front porch. Sure. And inside, the two detectives go upstairs, and they find Sherry, Gavin, and Garrett. God. They are still in their beds, but they're all dead. Their skin was gray and mottled.

Rigor mortis had already set in. Oh, my God. They had all been strangled to death. There were ligature marks around all of their necks. Oh. The detective and his backup officer made their way out of the house following this horrible discovery and went around to the front where Chris Coleman was sitting on the front porch. At this point, Detective Barlow and the other officer had kind of like quietly discussed that this scene didn't really make a lot of sense. And they were like, let's limit the information that we give Chris Coleman about this.

When they walked through the house, was one of them like, no, no, no. Yeah. And so they walked up to him and Detective Barlow simply said, they didn't make it, Chris. They didn't make it. Didn't make it. Chris kind of stood for a second and then sat down and then kind of collapsed into a ball on the ground and started sobbing and curled up into the fetal position. Immediately, the police knew that this was like a huge case and they didn't want to mess it up. This was a pretty small town.

So it's a suburb of St. Louis on the Illinois side. And so the police chief in Columbia, Illinois, was like, we got to call in the major case squad from St. Louis and get the right people investigating this case. He really felt like this was beyond his scope, his ability. I respect that. Absolutely. scope his ability. I respect that. Absolutely. So the major case squad was called in immediately and like 25 seasoned detectives were brought in to investigate this scene. They started processing the house. They secured the Coleman's phones, computers. And in the meantime, Chris was taken to the police station to give a statement. But not before he was cleared by paramedics because he started to, like, have, like, a really weird reaction and they thought he was going into shock.

At one point they had him, like, loaded on a gurney. And somebody on the scene noticed Chris look down at his arm and the person followed his gaze and noticed that there was a scratch on his arm. And then Chris went into hysterics and started thrashing about. Yes. On the gurney. To try to scratch himself on the gurney. Correct.

Gross. Shortly after that, they cleared him of, you know, medically cleared him, made sure that he was not going into shock, was not seriously injured in any way. And he was taken to the police station to give a statement. So they've got him set up where they're going to take his statement. By this point, the major case squad has learned about the threatening letters that have been sent. about the threatening letters that have been sent. And so they're tracking down any people that they know have a history of having a problem with Joyce Meyer and seeing if there's any, you know, wait to know. So that's going on on one side.

And then on the other side, they've got Chris Coleman and he's talking to Detective Barlow, his neighbor. And then another detective is in there as well. He told them that, like, that morning had been just like a standard morning for him. He'd got up about 540 to go to the gym. He'd left the house. And then as soon as he left the house, he had called Sherry to wake her up. That was their usual routine, apparently.

Which immediately the detectives are like, why don't you just wake her up on your way out the door? Like that seems like a really weird routine. But if you say so, they also did check his phone records and they saw no history of that routine. He got up. He called. You know, as soon as he left to wake her up, she didn't answer. He went to the gym. He started doing his cardio.

He called again. No answer. Finished his cardio. And there's no record of these calls? No, he did make these calls. Oh, just no record of the habit. Of this being a habit. Yes, a routine for them.

Yeah. So he called. No, he called like four or five times. Yeah, I bet he did. No, he sent a couple text messages. No answer each time. And then finally he called Detective Barlow and he headed back to the house from the gym. He was gone in total about an hour and 15 minutes, an hour and 10 minutes.

So he lays out that, and then the detective's like, okay. He was only gone an hour and 10 minutes, and someone came in and strangled three people and then spray-painted all over the house and got out undetected. And rigor mortis had already said it. Oh, God, I didn't even think about that. Yeah. That happens. Does it?

Yeah. Does it? Yeah. Come on. Oh, God. So Detective Barlow is like, okay, who do you suspect? I know you've been getting these emails. You've had to have been talking about this at work.

What have you guys come up with? You're the head of security. Who's got a problem with Joyce? And he's like, Chris is like, I don't know. I don't have any idea. And I just, I should have been there this morning. Shouldn't have left. I should have been there.

And they're like, oh, okay. I mean, so he really doesn't come up with anybody for them? Mm-mm. Okay, see, that's another dumb thing. Because, like, if you're the head of security. You're the head of security. You're the head of security. You got no ideas. And, like, the funny thing is, is surely she gets angry letters all the time.

You could frame a couple weirdos. I mean, just a tip for any murderers out there. So, yeah, worth noting, they did look into this to see if any other people had sent any threatening messages. Nobody else in the company had received any threatening messages. Yeah, of course not

because it's so weird. Oh, I'm super mad at Joyce and as revenge, I'm going to go after this random guy who works for her. Yeah. He's the head of her security,

of course, and he's not just some random guy. Okay, but he's kind of random because like, I would think you'd go for someone a little more high profile in the spotlight. Yeah, perhaps Joyce herself or her son who's heavily involved in the ministry. Right.

Yeah. Duh. Yeah. Mm-hmm. By this point, police were super alarmed just by everything Chris was saying, even just his behavior. The weird thing that he'd done on the gurney where, you know, he was just so upset he couldn't help from thrashing around. And they were also alarmed by the questions he hadn't asked. Yeah, like how did they die?

Like what happened to my family? How did they die? And so they confronted him with that. They said, what do you think happened to your family? How did they die? And so they confronted him with that. They said, what do you think happened to your family? And Chris said, I have no idea. You guys haven't told me. I'm just waiting patiently for that information like anyone would.

Yeah, you haven't fucking asked, dude. And he said, you don't have any idea how your family died. And he like mumbled don't have any idea how your family died. And he like mumbled something under his breath. And like they thought this was super telling, obviously. Yeah.

And so then they started probing into the family. They asked him if there were problems in the relationship. So Chris and his wife Sherry had been married about 12 years at this point. They had met when they were both in the military. Chris was in the Marines and Sherry was an MP for the Air Force, I believe. But they had both been involved in the same canine training program. That's how they met. Okay. And so their relationship had kind of been a whirlwind. They had gotten married like three months after they met. Sherry had found out that she was pregnant. Chris had been raised very religious. His parents were both pastors and he had grown up like in the Joyce Meyer ministry.

His parents attended like all the conferences. They knew Joyce personally. It's actually how he got the job. OK. I thank you for that because I was like, this man is so stupid. How is he the head of anything? Of course his mom and daddy got him the job. His parents were super involved in the Joyce Meyer Ministries.

And so when he left the military after marrying Sherry, they matched him up with Joyce and she offered him a job as the head of her security with his military training background. Sure. So he was qualified for the job, but he definitely got help getting the job. No, he wasn't. Well, maybe he worked. Are you listening to this? Okay. You're right.

Yeah. I don't know that he started as the head of security, but he started in security. And at this point, he was the head of security. No, I completely understand how a military background would make you, you know, an attractive applicant, might even get you in the door. But no, this guy's not smart enough to be the head of – Well, yeah. I mean for the head of security, he didn't have any security on his own house of any kind,

which was also a super big red flag to the police. Yeah, and he'd been threatened for months and he had no idea who might be doing this. He hadn't even really looked into it, it sounds like. Yeah. Also, not real important to the story, but interesting. I mean, maybe important to the story. I don't know. You decide.

Chris's family was never accepting of Sherry. They thought that, like, she had trapped him, gotten pregnant on purpose, and then convinced him to marry her and they hadn't married in the church, which Chris never would have done. Oh, God. So for their 12 years of marriage, he had to like bribe her to go on trips with him to see his family because she just felt like she was never accepted by them. Well, and it sounds like she wasn't. Exactly.

Yeah, that sounds awful. Awful. Yes. Yeah, that sounds awful. Awful. Yes. Trapped him. Yeah. Okay, unless she raped the man. Right. I hate that.

I know. Trapped him. Give me a fucking break. Yep. So they're asking about his relationship. You know, they learn their relationship history, and they're like, you know, what kind of problems do you have in your relationship? And he's like, none.

Everything's great. Oh, it's the perfect George. And we have a great relationship. You know, things were kind of tough for a little bit, but Joyce encouraged us to get into like counseling and that's really been big for us. And it's really improved. We've had some trouble communicating, but we've gotten past that and we're really communicating well now.

Things are going great. By this point, a couple of hours have gone by. The police have started accessing their phones and stuff, and they see that— He's cheating on her. Uh-huh. Yep. Chris was exchanging a lot of phone calls and messages with some woman named Tara. Yeah.

Yep. And so they're like, have you been seeing anybody outside of your marriage? And Chris is like, what do you mean? Yeah, that's a really hard question. I can understand how he'd need that explained to him. And one of the detectives is like, in a romantic way, have you been seeing anyone outside of your marriage? Yeah. And Chris said, no, no.

Uh-uh. But there is someone that I talk to very regularly. If you're going through my phone and stuff, you are going to find out that I was talking very regularly to Tara in Florida. Especially like recently, we've been talking a ton. Yeah, and it's just a real platonic banging that we're doing there. And so one of the detectives is like, OK, and what's that about? Mm hmm. And Chris is like, oh, she's just a friend.

She's just somebody to talk to. Turns out this woman, Tara, Tara Lentz was her name, was a cocktail waitress in Florida. And she was Sherry's high school best friend oh come on mmhmm yep

and so they press him on this relationship a little bit more and they're like okay so you said it's just a close friendship how often do you guys talk oh you know

like every day and so then the detective's like so you don't feel like you were doing anything you know that your wife would have been uncomfortable with here. And Chris goes, well, you know, some of the conversations my wife probably wouldn't have approved of. But he said, you know, we're just friends. We met through Sherry.

Our family went on vacation to florida and we met up with her while we were there you know so that they could see each other and you know we've just been talking since then but it's totally just friendly and they're like okay so is this something that you saw potential in potential and becoming more than that? Oh, no. I would never do that to my kids. Never. And they're like, okay. Wow. That's a really interesting thing to say.

Especially when your kids have just been murdered. Yeah. Yep. By you. Yep. Yeah. So at this point, they know that Tara lives in Florida. So they've contacted the Florida police to bring her in and get her version of what their relationship is.

And like they do a quick like 20 minute interview and she tells them a completely different story. They are very much in a relationship. They talk every day. They have a wedding date set. Oh, shit. Oh, I just knocked the mic. I'm sorry. Oh, my God.

And Chris kept telling her any day now he was going to serve Sherry with divorce papers. In fact, originally he said she was going to be served on May 4th. Oh. And then there was a typo on the divorce papers, so it got delayed in that she was going to get served on May 5th now. This is just disgusting. Mm-hmm. They learned that the couple had been seeing each other since a couple of conferences, I think one in Arizona. They spent a lot of time together.

They exchanged a lot of saucy text messages. Saucy? Yeah, saucy. I don't think I've ever heard you use that word before in that context. This is spread out over several hours, right, this interrogation is. And they keep, like, you know, leaving the room to get the information relayed to them from the detectives who are talking to her in Florida. And then they come back in and you kind of feed a little bit of the information, you know, get his version. And then here's some sauce.

Yeah, that's right. At some point, they're like, OK, we know you guys have been on vacations together. We know that you're exchanging, you know, a lot of text messages with adult content. What's the real story here? Chris says, well, I didn't think it was an affair. What? I mean, you flew her out places. You guys were at a wedding date.

And so Detective Barlow says, you didn't think this was an affair? What do you think an affair is? He said, no, an affair is when you're like living with them and you plan to get married and everything. Well, no, that's not what an affair is. No. It's absolutely not what an affair is. And so they're like, OK, so she actually has on her calendar, on her BlackBerry, that she showed us a scheduled wedding date to you, Chris? A scheduled vacations? You guys have a credit card together? What?

Yeah. So, come on, buddy. You know what this is. We know what this is. We all, let's all get on the same page together here. And surely some of the people he worked with had to have had an idea, too, because she's

at these work events. Yeah. So, OK, I thought that same thing, but it seems like he was able to get her access to these conferences as like a participant. And so people wouldn't be suspicious that she was there for him. But by this point, detectives are like,

okay, he's clearly having an affair with Tara, which is very strong motive for murder, especially because he is working this high-paying job. He's making over $100,000 a year as this head of security for Joyce Meyer. But if he – Joyce Meyer Ministries frowns upon divorce and adultery both. So he's risking – But he wasn't having an affair. Right.

He's risking his job either way he goes. And so they put this theory together that he murdered his family so that he could be with his mistress without losing his job. Oh, wow. Yeah. What do you make of that?

I think that's exactly what he did. God. He wanted to start a new life with Tara. And if he divorced Sherry, he would likely lose his job because they believe in everything but divorce. You do the counseling. You stay in an unhappy marriage. You do whatever. You just don't get divorced.

Yeah. And so he decided to kill his wife and two children and start over with Tara they even had found a note in Chris's phone that they had named their imaginary daughter that they would oh wow yeah Zoe Lynn Coleman in case you were wondering. I wasn't. But at this point, they only have that theory and not enough evidence to back it up. So after a six-hour interrogation, Chris was allowed to go home and the investigation continued. They looked into Tara, found out that, yeah, these two were having a very serious affair. They were

speaking all day, every day. He even sent her a text message, like, right before his phone was taken away when he was being interrogated. He is such an idiot. Yeah. At one point, like, the neighborhood, so this is a really close, like, neighborhood that

they lived in. Like, everybody had kids. All the kids played together. At one point, they made, like, neighborhood that they lived in. Like, everybody had kids. All the kids played together. At one point, they made, like, this memorial on the Coleman's front yard with, like, balloons and stuff for the kids. Did he go out and take it down? Mm-hmm. Threw it away. Ugh. Yeah.

Yep. How old were the kids? Like, 11 and 9. Oh, my God. I believe. Oh. Mm-hmm. And word that Chris had been having this affair started to like leak out in the community.

And then people really started to suspect that he was behind the murder of his family. Yeah. And that the threats had never been real. Yeah. That he had done the whole thing. And the major case squad started to believe this as well. And they felt a lot of pressure from the community to solve this case and be able to place Chris Coleman under arrest.

And so they started looking into the origin of the threatening messages, the emails, the letters that had been dropped in the mailbox. And it turns out that those emails had been sent from Chris's own laptop. So you're saying the killer had access to his laptop. So the email address had been created with the same IP address Chris' laptop had. And yeah. So when they asked Chris about this, he said that obviously someone had hacked his computer. Yeah. Happens to the best of them. Happens to the best of them.

Also, Chris, who was, in case you've forgotten, the head of Joyce Meyer's security, had told people that he had set up security at his own house and set up like a surveillance camera system. And so they asked him for the recordings. Yeah, because that'd be really helpful. For the day that the murders happened, see if they could catch somebody coming or going. And he was like, oh. So it wasn't actually set up to record. What was it set up to do then? It was going to be set up to record, Kristen. Just hold on. The parts

weren't in yet. And so for now, it was just monitoring. And then once I got the other parts in, it was going to record. Well, how long do these parts take? Wasn't there like a four-month period? It takes time. It takes time for parts to come in, Kristen. Okay.

Uh-huh. Yeah. Yep. I mean, we're talking about like a little security system, right? Not like a Maserati or something. What do you think the head of security for Joyce Meyer Ministries is going to put together, Kristen? Some rinky-dink little surveillance system that doesn't record anything? Actually, yes, that's exactly what he did.

He got one of those stickers that says Simply Safe, but he didn't actually invest in the system. He didn't actually put the system together. That's exactly right. Yeah. And then, so they're looking into that. They're looking into his behavior, as I mentioned. Remember the scratches on his arms. So an autopsy revealed that Sherry had fought her attacker.

She had two black eyes. She had defensive wounds on her arms. And then they looked back at the footage of Chris's initial interrogation and he had done something really weird. He'd been sitting in the interrogation room holding his arms like this because he'd just come from the gym. So he had obviously cut off sleeve shirt on because he's like a muscle dude, right? He's the head of security. And so he's sitting there in the interrogation room like this. And one of the detectives is like, are you cold?

You cold? And he's like, yeah, I'm freezing. He's like, OK, OK. You need something to cover up with? And he's like, yeah, yeah. And so they brought him in a blanket and they expected him to kind of like wrap up in it. He only covered his arms. Like a muff.

Yes. Come on, dude. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And so they asked him at some point to look at his arms, you know, and they noticed the scratches and they asked him where he got the scratches. And he said, well, this one I got yesterday when I was taking the satellite dish down off of the roof. And then these other ones, I think that happened when I was on the gurney earlier. Just, you know, had a moment of real shock and rage. Yeah. You know, had a moment of real shock and rage.

Yeah. And they were like, okay. And they also started looking for DNA in the house. There was some DNA that was found under Sherry's fingernails. It was not a complete profile, though. It was not a complete profile though. It was not enough to confirm that it was Chris's DNA, but it was a partial match to his DNA. There was nothing that they found at the scene that didn't belong there. They didn't find anything.

That's big. Yes. They didn't find anything that showed anybody other than the Coleman's had been in the Coleman's house. Yeah. that showed anybody other than the Coleman's had been in the Coleman's house. And then, of course, there was all of that incriminating evidence that was found on Chris's phone. There were X-rated snapshots and videos. What decade are you living in right now? You tell me they have saucy text and you have sexy snapshots?

Yeah, somebody has to describe some of the videos on the stand later. And he, like, got real nervous about it because they wouldn't let him play part of it in court. And so he had to, like, describe the naked pictures. Oh, God. Just play them, right? I mean, that seems less cringy. Yes, exactly. Yes, exactly. There was also a note that they found on Chris's computer that had, like, all of Tara's favorite things on it.

Like, and her clothing size and what he got her for Christmas. He got her a promise ring. Oh, so what are you, 12? Yeah, exactly. Sorry, that's probably too young for a promise ring. It's too young for a promise ring. I apologize. Unless your dad's giving it to you. Ew, what the hell? Probably. Oh, God. It's too young for a promissory. I apologize. Unless your dad's giving it to you. Ew.

What the hell? Probably. God, anyway. Purity balls are really cool. And then there was a note on November 5th, 2008 that said, the day Tara changed my life. Who knows what that means? It's the day they banged. Probably, right? Yeah.

The threatening messages started nine days after that. Oh, good God. Yeah. to track down a credit card receipt, an electronic copy of a signed credit card receipt from Chris Coleman when he purchased candy apple red spray paint. Oh, God. Like a month before the murders. Wow. All of this together, investigators felt like was enough to make a case against Chris Coleman.

It was pretty circumstantial, but it's pretty good. It's pretty, yeah. It's pretty good. And so after two weeks, they placed him under arrest and charged him with the first-degree murder of his wife and two sons. with the first-degree murder of his wife and two sons. Prosecutor Ed Parkinson led the case, and he said this crime was about greed, sex, selfishness, and narcissism. Chris Coleman decided he wanted a new life,

and his family was in his way. That's so sad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He said he was a monster who carried out a very sadistic plan. The prosecution spent the next two years building their case before going to trial. They said it was like a 10,000 piece puzzle because it is so circumstantial. There isn't hard evidence tying him to the murders of his wife and children. Their theory was that he became so obsessed with his new relationship with Tara that that's

all that he wanted. He was enraptured by her. But in his mind, he couldn't get divorced because he would lose his high-paying job with Joyce Meyer Ministries. And so this was his way out. He was going to make a clean break before anyone knew about the affair. Yeah. So during the course of this two years as this is moving to trial several sherry's friends came forward independently and she had let them all know bits and pieces of what she had started to suspect but she hadn't told anybody the whole story yeah she told one friend that if anything happened to her, Chris did it. Oh, she told another friend that Chris had asked for a divorce and she refused. Uh huh. She said, I will not give

you a divorce. I'm not giving up on this marriage. I love you. Like, yeah, I won't do it. You won't get me to leave. And she told another friend that she suspected that Chris was having an affair. And she even suspected it was with Tara. She pulled her up on Facebook one day and showed her friend. And she said, you want to see who my husband's having an affair with? Wow. I hate that yep

but also is that really the way divorces work I mean you can't just say no no you can't just say no but she wasn't going to leave willingly so the deal with Joyce it wasn't going to be easy no so here's the thing is that the way Chris phrased it to somebody during this investigation is that Joyce Meyer Ministries frowns upon divorce if it's your fault.

So he couldn't be the reason for the divorce. He would lose his job. And so he needed Sherry to be the one to leave. And so he needed Sherry to be the one to leave. And so he started like – according to what Sherry told her friends, he started withholding sex and like he started calling her names and they were fighting all the time. Oh, great. Yeah. To try and get her to be the one who would leave.

And when that didn't work, he murdered his whole family. Yeah. Chris Coleman's trial began Monday, April 25th, 2011. And when the prosecution opened to the jury, they said, this will be a really tough case for you. You will have to get past the idea that something like this couldn't happen. It is unthinkable for a father to strangle his innocent children in their sleep. But it does happen and it did happen. Yeah. The police officers who located the bodies of the Coleman family were the first to testify. And as they testified, the prosecution rolled in this 3D model of the house to walk the jury through what the police saw as they went through the house and where they found the bodies and then they put up the pictures of the crime scenes where the dead bodies of Chris's wife and two children were found.

The officer said that while this wasn't a bloody scene, it wasn't a particularly gruesome scene. It was one of the hardest scenes that they've ever worked. Well, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A forensic pathologist testified about the time of death. So remember, Chris told them that he left the house at like 540.

Everybody was alive and well when he left. And then someone, you know, snuck in the house the second he left, murdered the family, left the spray-painted messages, whatever. A pathologist testified that their time of death was 3 a.m. Yeah. Yeah. The pathologist also testified about the ligature marks on Sherry and the boys' necks and how it was clear Sherry had fought and that the boys had not, which means that they were likely asleep when he started killing them.

Psychologists testified that one of Sherry's hairs was found on one of the boys' bodies. So that meant that they believed that Sherry had been killed first and then the same ligature had been used to kill the boys. Yeah. And that the hair had to held the ligatures for about four to five minutes straight on each of his family members to murder them. You're right. I hate this story. played a videotaped deposition from Joyce Meyer, who said that she had known Chris since he was a little boy because his parents were very involved in her ministry. She said that she knew he was having marital problems, that she had suggested they go through counseling, but she said she didn't know anything of his affair until the police had told her about it. And she said that

it would have likely affected his job. She said it wouldn't necessarily have been the divorce that would have cost him his job, but the adultery would have cost him his job. She did explain that in her testimony that looking back in April, she'd started to become suspicious of Chris. He wasn't as attentive in his duties as he used to be. He was forgetting things. And she said on May 4th, he called in sick to work, which he had never done before. Tara Lentz initially refused to testify. No, that's not how that works. And she

was court ordered to do so. A lot was made of her court appearance. She walked in. The news article said she wore scarlet and she really wore a magenta shirt. She wore her promise ring to court. Really? She was not on the stand very long and her answers were very short and quick. She was asked if Chris professed his love for her and she said yes. And they asked her how often they communicated and she said all the time, constantly. late into the evening and that they had talked that night that Sherry was supposed to be served with divorce papers that day but there'd been the typo and so Chris had promised to her that

she would be served the next day. Following her testimony a computer forensics person testified about all of the this was like the really awkward thing testified about all the photos and videos that have been found on both chris and tara's computers and cell phones and then also talked about how the oh man okay so there's this one point where he's like having to narrate the sexually explicit content and he's like there is a picture of chris coleman in the shower unclothed with his genitalia showing and then there's a picture of chris coleman taking a picture of himself in a mirror and his genitalia is exposed and then there's a picture of Tara Lentz

turned away from the camera and she is exposing her buttocks and then there's a picture of Tara's breasts and then finally the prosecutor's like that's enough we've heard enough

that would be so uncomfortable it's like we get it they were exchanging nude pics yes and then on top of that they played a clip

of one of the videos but they put like the black pixels uh huh over the naked parts. And it's a video of Chris. This is so crunchy.

It's a video of Chris Coleman. And he's like standing there naked. And he's like, I just got finished texting you and I've still got a hard on. Ew. Oh, God. It's so bad. And he's like, you want to see it? No, thanks.

It'd be funny if they didn't do the black blood over his genitals. They did it over his eyes. Yeah, exactly. Then they played another one. Oh, no. Brandy. He's in the shower, masturbating. Is the no. Brandy. He's in the shower masturbating.

Is the shower on? Yeah. I mean, that doesn't, you could get your phone wet. I think he's like got it set up outside the shower. And he says,

you're the only person that I've ever done anything like this for before. Oops. Drop the soap. What? That's not sexy. Oops. Drop the soap. What? That's not sexy. Oops.

Drop the soap. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's like a dumb joke about being in jail, isn't it? Is Tara or what's-her-face supposed to be on the other end of that phone call? Like, ooh. Yeah, I think so.

This is really uncomfortable. We're going to come up behind you and surprise you. I mean, what the? Yeah, dude, we know this is your first time doing this. You're terrible at it. So then the computer forensics guy went on to talk about the lists that he had found, the dates that had been noted on their calendars, the saved wedding date. I'm worried that you're starting to gloss over stuff, and I want to know much, much more.

I can't talk about any more. I'm lost over stuff, and I want to know much, much more. I can't talk about it anymore. I was going to say, it's amazing to me what makes you cringe versus what makes me cringe. I could never cover a child death thing, and you're like, yeah, here it is. I mean, it's terrible for sure. Well, yeah, but when I— think that's cringy to me, the thing that is the most uncomfortable to you is you're describing a man in the shower trying to talk sexy to his cell phone. He finishes up the testimony talking about all of the dates.

This is the date that Tara changed my life. This is the date that he had saved in his computer as their prospective wedding date. What was their prospective wedding date? I don't have it written down here. I think it was like, I don't know, man. You're so uncomfortable. You're still thinking about that shower scene, aren't you? I don't have it written down here, but they had a date like with a heart drawn around it that they were going to get married

on. Then they had a linguistics expert talk about a couple of things. They talked about the spelling of things in those threatening messages. The word opportunities had been misspelled. And oftentimes the apostrophe on contractions had been placed at the end of the word rather than in front of the last letter. And so they did like a check of the other documents on Chris Coleman's computer. And those were common mistakes in his other documents. So the defense tried to get this testimony blocked, saying that this isn't actual science.

This is just so calling this guy a linguistics expert is misleading to the jury. But the judge allowed it and said, you can present this information, but you can't then draw any conclusions from it. You can say this is how this was misspelled in the letters, and it's also misspelled in these documents on his computer. You can say, this is how this contraction was spelled wrong in the letters, and how this was also misspelled on other documents in his computer. But you couldn't then— We leave that up to you, Jury, what you do with this information.

Correct. Okay. Yeah. leave that up to you, jury, what you do with this information. Okay. Yeah. There was also some DNA testimony that was given about how the DNA scrapings from under

Sherry's fingernails had been inconclusive, but there was nothing there that could rule Chris out. It was a partial match to his profile, but not enough to be conclusive. That was about it for the prosecution. And then it was the defense's turn, and they called only two witnesses. The first was a

linguistics expert to talk about handwriting specifically. So the prosecution had brought some evidence that Chris had willingly given a handwriting sample to compare to the spray paint that had been spray painted on the walls. OK. And the prosecution had said their handwriting expert said it was a match. And the defense brought a handwriting expert who said it's not a match. OK. I would think that – well, like I guess your handwriting and your spray painting could potentially – I mean I feel like that would be kind of different. I feel like it would be really hard to tell. Yeah, they also put up their own linguistic expert who said the things that the prosecution pointed out, the misspellings and the misused apostrophes, don't mean shit.

Very good. And then they rested. That was their whole case. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what are you going to do? You've got a shitty case. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. I mean, what are you going to do? You've got a shitty case. In their closing, the defense said that every bit of evidence in this case was circumstantial. They said there's nothing so much as a jaywalking ticket on Chris Coleman. They said no murder weapon has ever been found and the state was not able to recover a speck of paint from Chris Coleman. So his argument is that if he had spray painted those messages, there should have been spray paint on him when he was interrogated later that day. But if the family was murdered around 3 a.m., doesn't that give him plenty of time to shower and – Yep.

Yeah. Yeah. And he could have worn a fucking spray suit, like a suit when he sprayed. He had lots of time to get rid of evidence. Yeah. He said that anybody could have hacked in to Chris's computer and sent those messages and made it look like he had sent them. He said, this investigation isn't over. I believe it will be, though.

Yeah. I think it's done. The prosecution in their closing, they kind of put all of the steps in order. And then they said, when the killer went in to each of those little boys' room and when the killer sat down on their beds and when the killer reached out for them to strangle them, they didn't get up and run. They didn't scream. Of course they didn't. Why would run. They didn't scream. Of course they didn't. Why would they? It was their dad.

Ugh. I cried when I read that the first time. Well, yeah, that's terrible. It's horrible. The jury deliberated and deliberated and deliberated. They deliberated for two days. They sent all kinds of questions to the judge. They asked for a definition of reasonable doubt.

There were rumors that there was one holdout and that it was going to be a hung jury. And then finally they came back and they found Chris Coleman guilty of all three counts of first degree murder. Later, a juror spoke and said that they were when they first got back to the deliberation room, they were split seven to five in favor of guilt. And it wasn't that the five believed he wasn't guilty. It was that they believed there was reasonable doubt. Well, sure. Sure. It was that they believed there was reasonable doubt in the case. And so they started looking through evidence and they found a picture that had been submitted to the evidence of Tara and Chris together kissing. And it was dated October of 2008.

And Chris had testified – not testified. Chris had given information in his interrogations that they hadn't started dating until November. had given information in his interrogations that they hadn't started dating till November. And they said if he lied about that, they then believed that he could lie about all of it. And that was like the thing that made the last. I don't think that that's that big. No, because we all lie. Yeah.

But like that's the thing that pushed the other five over the edge and they. Oh, gosh. Yeah. But like that's the thing that pushed the other five over the edge and they. Oh, gosh. Yeah. And they found him guilty. They must have not needed much of a push. I agree. I think that's like nothing. They must have been looking for something to back up what they felt. Yeah.

Chris waived his right to be sentenced by the jury and was sentenced by the judge instead. That's interesting. Yeah. He was facing the death penalty, and I think he believed that the jury would sentence him to death. The judge sentenced him to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Yeah. Yeah. Chris Coleman maintains his innocence.

maintains his innocence. He says he is wrongfully convicted, that he absolutely did not kill his wife and children, that someone broke into his house that day and did it. And his parents believe him as well.

Chris says the only thing he lied about was that he planned to divorce Sherry. He lied to Tara about that. He feels really bad about that. But that's the only lie he told. I'm sorry.

His only lie was that he never planned to divorce? He never planned to divorce Sherry. Bullshit. Yeah. Bullshit. Yeah. And his parents said that people just don't understand Christians. And that Chris never would have had the affair if Sherry were fulfilling her wife's duties. Oh. Go-hmm.

Go to hell. But men have needs. And Sherry wasn't meeting Chris's needs. Wow. Mm-hmm. So Chris Coleman has appealed his conviction. And it seems. It's amazing they raised a piece of shit. I can't imagine.

Yeah. It seems that one of his appeals has gone in his favor. A court has ruled that maybe he did have ineffective counsel and that could lead to a new trial. OK. But that is still – it's like hearing, hearing, hearing. Exactly. Gotcha. What was their thing about people don't understand Christians?

Like what – Oh, you know. I don't know. I mean like that's – this country is majority Christian. Yeah. No, people just don't understand. People here don't understand you then. People don't understand Christianity and they believe it's one thing when really it's something else.

Really it's murdering your wife and children. It's a beautiful religion. Yeah. And that's the story of some threatening messages. Wow. Yeah. That was rough. Yeah.

I'm going to be the hero, baby. Great. You're going to lift us up. Thank fucking God. Yeah. First, I'm going to go pee and get more iced tea. Do it. Oh my. You told that very well. Thank you.

I hate you for that. I know. Okay. You ready for this? I am. Tell us about some poop. No. It's got to be lighter than this fucking case. Well, yes. My God. First of all, it's me telling it so you know it's got to be lighter than this fucking case. Oh, well, yes. My God.

First of all, it's me telling it, so you know it's going to be lighter. And I said that this is about an airplane pooper, so. How serious can it be? Brandy, there comes a time in one's life when one must stand up for what one believes in. Oh, yeah? When one must summon the courage to say, don't tread on me. Oh, no. And this is one such story.

Everyone, prepare to be inspired by a man named Gerard Buckley Fenneran, a.k.a. Jerry. Sweet Jerry led a privileged life. He was born in 1937 in New York City. And he attended Iona Prep School. Iona? Iona. Notable alumni include Frank Abagnale. Oh oh catch me if you can uh-huh don mclean oh what is that not don mclean i don't know but his most famous song is american pie did you like list the b tracks or what that might be Hold on. I think I might have the wrong guy. Yeah, mine's Jim Croce. Oh, well, that's really close. I always get them mixed up. Also, Mariah.

Oftentimes I'm talking about Don McCoy. I was going to say, like, how often does this happen? It's Jim Croce. Anyway, bye-bye, Miss American Pie. Yeah, we all know. Put my Chevy to the levee. But the levee was dry. This could go on for seven minutes. I think this song's like 18 minutes long.

Also, Mariah Carey's first husband. Oh. What's his name? Tommy something, I think. Yeah, the fucking Sony guy? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, not Nick Cannon.

That's for sure. I wonder if she was married to Nick Cannon. That's a weird one. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what to do with that. After high school, Jerry joined the U.S. Air Force Academy, where he was part of its first graduating class. He was flying high. While he was in the Air Force, he attended the University of Michigan's School of Business.

Over the years, he was stationed in Germany and Greece. And in 1965, he retired as a captain. I don't think they like that. They don't like captain? No. I love seeing captain. Yeah, I think that's more of like a serial guy, not like, you know. I respect the hell out of Captain Crunch.

All right. Do you want to know something about my self-control? Yeah. Norman's dad, true story, retired from the Navy as a captain. And I've never once said any kind of captain joke. Never even said aye-aye to him. Believe me, I've wanted to. Anyway.

That is some restraint, Kristen. Thank you for your applause. By the way, are you cold? No, I'm okay. Are you cold? Yeah, I'm cold. You have shorts and tank top on. Turn the fucking fan off. I'm practically naked. You are. You're way more naked than I've ever been.

Ever. Ever. You wear one of those 1920s swimsuits to the show. That's right. That same year, he found work in Citibank's European division. Jerry flourished at Citibank. He opened and managed a Citibank subsidiary. He ran Citibank's Latin American Investment Bank.

He became a senior vice president. He became a senior credit officer. He completed an advanced management program at the Harvard School of Business. Ever heard of it? In 1985, he joined Drexel Burnham as a managing director. Oh, shit. Fun fact, Drexel Burnham was forced into bankruptcy in 1990 because they just loved doing illegal shit. I know, it's because they hired this guy.

Nope, nope, nope, nope. The important thing to know is that our boy Jerry was doing quite well. Yeah, he's flying high, we heard. For many years. He created a fund with $172 million to invest in Latin American debt and equities. Please, no follow-up questions. I don't even know what that means. I know $172 million is a lot of dollars.

He became president of that fund, which, I mean, I guess you would if you created it anyway. By this point, he and his family had settled. How are you going to be president of a fund? I don't know. Please. Like, this man's life description. I mean, obviously he was killing it. Yeah.

But I'm bored shitless and I didn't understand half of it. Okay. Money, money, money. He managed money. He made a lot of money. There was money all around. Okay. He and his family had settled down in Greenwich, Connecticut.

Oh, that's right. Because you don't say the W. You don't call it Greenwich. No. It's like one, E, no W. Greenwich, Connecticut. Oh, that's right. Because you don't say the W. You don't call it Greenwich. No. It's like one E, no W. Greenwich. They were multimillionaires, Brandy. What kind of house they live in?

I don't know. But like I searched for him on newspapers.com and he came up as having like a $26 million estate or something. I mean, yeah, he was doing all right. He was a VIP. Obviously, he was a frequent flyer. And obviously, he flew first class. Yeah, of course.

So it shouldn't surprise you that on October 19, 1995, Jerry boarded United Airlines Flight 976. The 11-hour flight would take him from Buenos Aires to John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York City. Mm-hmm. Been there. JFK, I mean. Had a good time there, did you? It was fine. I'm glad you mentioned it.

I'm glad you mentioned it. So Jerry boarded the plane and may have noticed some important people on board. The president of Portugal was on board. Oh. So was the Argentinian foreign minister. Both of them were surrounded by their security details. Both of them have their own pages on Wikipedia, obviously. Okay.

Big deal people. Jerry was flying with his business partner, Susan Bergen. As they were all settling in, the flight... Is she related to Candace? I don't believe so. Okay. Just checking. That's a good thing. Thank you for that.

You're welcome. As they were all settling in, the flight attendants offered something to drink to all the first-class passengers. Jerry took them up on the offer. He had two glasses of champagne. And then, you know, Jerry got a little grumpy. What? He picked fucking champagne? Oh, are you not a fan of champagne?

Sure. Champagne's kind of a special occasion drink. Is that just like – I mean, but if someone is offering you champagne, do you turn them down? Do you say champagne? I might. Really? No, probably not.

Yeah. Too polite. I'd just take it. And drink two glasses of it, right? And then get grumpy, right? No, I wouldn't get grumpy. You totally understand with where this is going. I wouldn't get I'd just take it. And drink two glasses of it, right? I probably would. And then get grumpy, right? No, I wouldn't get grumpy. You totally understand with where this is going. I wouldn't get grumpy.

All right. He got the attention of a flight attendant and demanded that he be seated in the row that is reserved for crew members. What? The flight attendant was like, well, no. Yeah. You can't sit there. That's for crew members only. Seats taken.

Seats taken. Evidently, Jerry was in like the smoking section and he didn't want to be. Well, yeah, which is just disgusting. It was another time. Okay. I'm just saying if somebody is smoking on a plane, the whole plane is a smoking section. A wise person once said, a smoking section in a restaurant is like a peeing section in a pool. And I couldn't agree more. So that was that.

But then Jerry got up. He started walking around. He went over to the galley, which is that weird little hallway that you only see flight attendants standing in. Yeah, it's got, like, all the compartments, and, like, they pull it out, and there's, like, food and stuff. Yeah, I really struggled with how to describe it. I was originally like, where they keep all their flight attendant stuff. Yeah. But to me that sounds like this.

Like the drink cart, like, fits in there neatly. Yeah. Yeah. So he goes over there, pouring himself some more champagne. Oh, he did? Oh, he did? He hasn't had enough yet? He needs more champagne.

He noticed two other glasses of champagne had already been poured, so he took those two. He's five glasses of champagne deep now. Yeah. Okay. What, too much? I think maybe. One of the flight attendants. Seems like the glass probably just slowed him down.

Yeah, really just take the bottle. One of the flight attendants spotted him and was like, hey, sir, you're not allowed to do this. Get the fuck out of here. Yeah, you can't serve yourself. I don't think they say that because they're flight attendants. Right. They're very polite. You know the game.

You know the customer service game, Brandy. Yeah. When you want to tell someone to fuck off, what do you have to say? Like, what do you say? I don't even know. Let me throw a scenario at you. All right. Someone comes into the salon.

They just start washing their own hair in the sink. Excuse me. I'm so sorry. That's not allowed in here. You have to be a licensed cosmetologist. I don't need a license to do this. Just give me a sec. No, I'm so sorry.

I'm going to have to ask you to step away from the shampoo bowl there. And there's the door. Have a great day. Wow, that is so polite. And inside, you were thinking even more polite things, right? No, inside I'd be like, what the fuck are you doing? Yeah, I think that's what was going on with these flight attendants. Yeah, I think that's what was going on with these flight attendants.

So someone spots them. They're like, yeah, you're not allowed to just go up and serve yourself champagne. Like, if you want some, we will bring some to you. Have you ever been on a flight before? Yes, and I have paid for a first class seat and I will get what I want. Sounds like you're really picking up on this guy's vibe. Jerry made his way back to his seat. But he got up again because, you know, that champagne, it goes down quick.

He went up to flight attendant Sharon Mansker. Sharon was busy hanging coats and Jerry told her, I need a glass of champagne. And she was like, all right, I'll be right with you. That obviously wasn't good enough. No, definitely not. So he reached over and tried to pour himself a drink from an empty bottle of champagne. I mean, he obviously didn't know it was empty. Yeah. So this was all, like, just so annoying for the flight attendants.

I can't even imagine. How do they open bottles of champagne on a flight? What do you mean? I don't know. What do you mean? They just open them. Okay. Are you worried about the popping stuff?

I am. And, like, where about the popping sound? I am. And, like, where's the cork going to go? Well, okay. First of all, they're profesh. Okay. They do it with a sword. That's right. No, don't you think you cover it with a cloth napkin?

Yeah, I think that is what they do. Yeah. All right. And also, it's pre-9-11. You know, no one's alarmed by, like, big popping sounds on a plane. You know, And also it's pre-9-11. You know, no one's alarmed by like big popping sounds on a plane. It's all good. Now they just serve twist options. Yeah.

And it is bad. So, you know, they're annoyed. Yeah. They had stuff they needed to do and this entitled douche was doing just whatever the fuck he wanted. Yeah. But they tried to keep things calm. They got him back to his seat. De-escalate the situation.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. I was very excited to tell you this story because I feel like you have all the experience in this and I have none of the experience. Which shows when things pop off in our discourse. So, plane took off.

And after takeoff, Jerry ordered a glass of French red wine. He drank it. Then he ordered another and he drank that too. Okay, I'm sorry. He's had six glasses of champagne and now two glasses of wine? What? That's a lot. They cut him off yet?

Not yet. Oh, my gosh. I do wonder, like, at what point do you get cut off, right? Yeah. Probably when you're found wandering around the galley. Yes. Well, and I don't know if, like, rules are a little different on international flights. They probably are.

And it's what year is it? 1995. Yeah, they're probably a little bit lax in the 90s, too. Yeah, maybe. But anyway, he wanted another glass, Brandy. So he got up, went to the galley, and started pouring himself another glass. Oh, Lord. This is like everything you hate. Someone is not following the rules. They started pouring himself another glass. Oh, Lord. This is like everything you ate.

Someone is not following the rules. They're not following the rules. It drives me crazy. Well, you think the fucking rules don't apply to you, Jerry? Stay in your fucking seat. And certainly don't go behind the curtain. You've already been asked twice. And you knew it was the rule to begin with.

Anyway. I cannot stand people who don't follow the rules. I know you can't. You hate it. I do. You love a rule. You love following the rules. I do.

I do. You love a rule. You love following the rules. I do. When one of the flight attendants spotted him filling his glass, she went over to him and was like, excuse me, you're not allowed to do that. And Jerry was annoyed. He obviously didn't need to listen to her. No, he did. No, the rules don't apply to him, Brandy.

So he went back to his seat with the bottle and stuck it between his legs. What was it? Good luck getting it out from between his legs. Oh, okay. How bad you want this bottle of wine? Yeah, I thought maybe he had like a crazy straw he was going to put down there. That's, I think, the best way to drink French wine. So do I.

Yeah, you sniff. Air race it. You swirl it in the glass and then you stick in the silly straw. Yeah. At this point, the flight attendants, they were a united front. This guy needed to be cut off. Yeah. So one of the male flight attendants went over and gave Jerry the bad news.

He said, sir, we're going to take a little break from drinking now. I bet Jerry handled that just great. Well, yeah. Gosh, were you on this flight, Brittany? Here's how he handled it. He screamed at the flight attendant, I want your name. I'm going to bust your ass. What does that even mean?

I'm going to bust your ass? Yeah. He's going to bust some ass. Like he's going to kick his ass? Yeah, I think so. I mean, I don't know. It's just, it's not good. No, I don't.

I don't want Jerry busted in anybody's house. Unless they've consented and they want their ass busted. Yeah, I don't think that was the case here. So as Jerry's yelling about busting ass, non-consensually, another flagged attendant got word that someone on board the flight was sick. So they went back to the cockpit, got the first aid kit, and started making their way down the aisle to get to the sick person. But, of course, Jerry interrupted them and was like, hey, I want more alcohol. And the flight attendant said, quote, well, I want you to shut the fuck up.

Seems like neither of us is getting what we want. Oh, shit! He didn't actually say that, but I'm sure he thought it. Oh, Kristen, how dare you! How dare you do that to me! I knew that if I said, quote, you would totally buy it. I'm sorry. You were so excited.

I was. You were like buy it. I'm sorry. You were so excited. I was. You were like, yes. No, he had to be customer service-y branding. Which, as you know, is when you say, oh, I'm so sorry that that was your experience with us. But on the inside, you're like, I hope. Oh, God. You know what? You know what, Patty? Bleep that.

I made a joke. I wrote a joke here. Before hearing my case. Yep, and we're just going to. Bleep. Move on past. Move on past. Ultimately, the flight attendant got to the sick person, but they were delayed by Jerry.

Yeah. But, you know, Jerry got back in his seat. Things seemed calm for a while. The flight attendant served a meal. They drew the curtains at the 11th row. And Jerry burst through them. Flight attendant Sharon Mansker stood up and he shoved her out of the way. Oh, my gosh.

He went to the first class galley, where at this point he'd been many times before. And Jerry pulled down his pants, pulled down his underwear. And took a shit right there? Climbed on top of the drinks cart, crouched down, and pooped on it.

You're fucking kidding. I am not kidding. Oh my gosh. He was in full view of everyone. He used linen napkins to wipe himself, but it was a messy cleanup. He wiped his hands on the counter and on various service implements. You're kidding me. There was poop everywhere.

That's disgusting. Is that just a little added Kristen flavor? No. Is that real? No, he really, like, he rubbed it everywhere. He tracked poop throughout the plane. Then he locked himself. Oh, then he took, sorry, you distracted me.

He took those dirty linen napkins and wiped them on the walls of the plane. Then he locked himself in the bathroom. What the fuck? Mm-hmm. The stench was overwhelming. Yeah, I can't even imagine. No, I mean, my God. The sight had been horrifying.

You couldn't make this up. A successful investment banker had just climbed atop a beverage cart and pooped himself silly. This was a mess, literally and figuratively. The flight attendants asked Jerry's business partner to help coax him out of the bathroom. You had a business partner on this flight with him? Yeah, Susan Bergen. Oh, that's right. No relation to Candace, I remember now.

I want to know so much more about this relationship. Yes! Because I'm like, were they seated together? Was she with him this whole time as he's going nuts? Right! Anyway. But you see him squatting on the drink cart. What are you?

Well, by that point, what are you going to throw a cork up there to stop the whole thing? You can't. It's too late. You pop the champagne. Uh-huh. Right up there. Boy. Can you imagine?

One in a million shot. Susan took his hand, which was covered in feces, and they went back to their seats. Well, he didn't wash up in the bathroom. He locked himself in the bathroom. No. Yeah, he locked himself in the bathroom. They got the door open, and he was a mess. Okay.

So no. Oh my gosh. He had not like cleaned himself up. No, he was a mess. It's kind of like a nervous breakdown or something. Lord only knows. Oh my gosh. So she takes him back to his seat with his poo-covered hands.

Place your poo-covered hand in mine. They fell asleep, and the flight attendants covered them in a blanket to try to contain the stench of poop. Is this real? It's real. I don't think the blanket is going to do much. It would do something. It really would to just cover it, you know, tamp it down a little. Did they have some Clorox wipes on board to start wiping down the plane?

No, they sprayed Carl Lagerfeld perfume all over the plane to try to overpower the poo. Well, that's not going to work. Well, it's going to do something. This was before the days of Febreze. Yeah, no, Febreze was not out yet. They don't have emergency cleaning supplies on board? Well, I'm sure they had something, but, Brandy, like that time when the man shit himself on my plane. I mean, you can't just wipe that out of the air.

Yeah, that's true. And those airplanes are just recirculating the same air over and over again. It's terrible. Take it from me. Someone who was on a plane when someone pooped their drawers. It's terrible. I can't even imagine someone pooping openly. I was going to say, this guy didn't poop his drawers.

Yeah, he pooped the drink cart's drawers. In the meantime, someone alerted the captain that the entire cabin was caked in shit. Oh, my God. So the captain was like, that's it. We are officially no longer serving any food or beverages for the rest of this flight.

How much longer was the flight? Four more hours. Holy shit. People were like, really? Are you sure? These peanuts are so good we could flick the poop right off. But the captain wasn't allowed. Wasn't allowed. He was a neat freak.

Yeah, I'm guessing everybody lost their appetites. God, can you imagine? No! Oh, God. Can you imagine? No! So sad. The captain was also like, hey, flight attendants, I know you're all supposed to get some rest during these international flights, but poop man just ruined that for all of us.

From here on out, I need all of you on poop man duty. And then he said, duty, ha ha, duty. And they got it. And they knew at some point it would be funny, but it was not funny. Not then. Yeah, and that's a 100% real quote. The pilot looked into the possibility of landing in San Juan so that they could get Jerry off the plane and give the whole thing a hose down. Power wash the inside of the plane.

Oh, God. But he wasn't allowed to because they had those important dudes on the plane and that's a big security risk. You can't make these unplanned stops. Holy shit. Even if somebody poops all over the plane, you just have to keep on going. Keep it on.

So San Juan was like, uh-uh, keep it moving. So everyone just suffered for the remaining four hours of this flight. Oh my gosh. When they finally

I'm getting, okay, I'm getting off this plane. I'm suing everybody. I'm suing the airline. I'm suing the shitter. I'm suing the pilot. Because you wanted your snacks? No! Because I was forced to

stay on a poo plane. I'm suing those important dudes too. Everyone's going to ask you. You get a lawsuit and you get a lawsuit and you get a lawsuit. Would you ever fly again? No. Here's the thing.

I don't even like flying as it is. Exactly. So if I go through something like that, not a fucking chance. Mm-hmm. When they landed in New York, finally. I mean, they're lucky people weren't vomiting all over the place. Well, I don't know that they weren't. They probably were.

They probably ran out of barf bags. Yeah, because so many had been used as poo bags. So gross. This is disgusting. I don't know if I've ever mentioned this before, but I think being a flight attendant would be the worst job on earth. Oh, absolutely. It would be terrible. Everyone's mad.

No one wants to be there. You're dealing with entitled jerks. Yeah. And I'm sorry. One of them poops on my beverage cart. That's when I hang up my uniform. Strap on my parachute. Get the fuck out of here.

Get the fuck out of here. the fuck out of there. So they landed in New York and he was taken into custody by the Port Authority police. And they were like, ooh, there's poop all over you. They'd gotten a call ahead of time so they weren't surprised.

But I'm sure they were disgusted. He was arrested by the FBI. Yeah. He was charged with interfering with a flight crew and assaulting and intimidating a flight attendant. What about the other passengers? Yeah, emotional distress all around. Jerry immediately lawyered up. He pled not guilty and was let go on a $100,000 bond.

Was he possessed by 43 demons and two devils? What do you think? So he's not guilty. What do you think the excuse is? Voluntary intoxication. Oh, that's interesting. Okay. This story, of course, made huge news.

I never heard of it. A lot of immature people were very amused by it. Is there an SNL sketch about it? I'm about to read you a David Letterman. Do you remember David Letterman used to do those top ten lists? Top ten Gerard Finneran excuses for pooping on a plane. Are you ready? I'm ready.

Number ten. Misread the brochure about advantages of first class. Stupid. Number nine. Confused when Stuart asked for headset deposit. Number eight. Went nuts after learning they were out of chicken almondine.

I've never been a big Letterman fan. 7. Excuses. Thought he heard somebody yell, we're going to crash. And that was just something he always wanted to do before he died. Oh, yeah, these aren't great, are they? We're going to crash. And that was just something he always wanted to do before he died. Okay. Yeah, these aren't great, are they? Number six. Hoping to impress the aloof blonde English woman in 2D.

That's not going to get it done. No. Number five. Had already used the air phone to call everyone he knew. So I guess that's like, you're bored, so next thing is poop all over the plane. Number four, you try drinking for 14 hours and see if you can tell the difference between a food cart and a bathroom. Number three, it was all part of an elaborate plan to intimidate the real killers. I don't even understand that one.

Number two, his ass wouldn't fit in the overhead compartment. I like that one. And number one, the number one excuse. Oh, like you've never done it. Never have. Ba-dum-bum-tsh. So, that was hilarious. But I'll tell you who wasn't laughing.

Everyone on that flight? Well, yeah, that's true, I'm sure. But mainly Jerry. Oh, okay. Jerry was not used to being a laughingstock. He was only used to stocks and bonds because he was a stockbroker. Very good, Kristen. Thank you.

Very good, Kristen. Thank you. Was it as good as the top ten list that was written by professional comedians? Some might say better. Not me. When Jerry's lawyer, Charles Stillman, found out that the Daily News was working on a story about Jerry's poop tantrum, he called up the reporter and said, I promise you, you have no idea what hell will come to you if you print these lies.

Where's the lie, my dude? Yeah, this is amazing to me. I think this is just rich guy bullshit. Yeah. No, I did something. I expect to get away with it. But, like, dude, you did it in front of a bunch of other people and a bunch of other, like, rich, important people. So they're not going to put up with that.

Shit. Anyway. But at this point, the reporter had accounts from multiple people on board the flight. So she wasn't super intimidated. So then the lawyer called her two more times and he took a different approach. What was this approach? This time he said in a very calm voice. It was, it's all a totally false, horrible lie.

My client was suffering from a dire medical emergency and wasn't allowed access to the first class bathroom, although he was a business class passenger. They are horribly mistaken. This was not, underscored, not alcohol related. They are distorting because they didn't attend to his medical emergency. No. Yeah. No.

If it was a medical emergency, you shit your your pants you don't climb atop a beverage cart crouch down and then wipe your shit everywhere yeah yeah worst case scenario you do suffer a medical emergency yeah and you put your pants you can't get to the bathroom yeah you poop your pants. And you can't get to the bathroom. Yeah. You shit your pants. Yeah. Which is horrible. Yeah. I mean, no, it'd be horrible. And even that, as you can attest, would be bad for the other people on the flight as well. But, like, at not even close to the level. There's such a difference between choosing to poop atop a beverage cart and just letting one go in your dockers.

So this was just a case of explosive diarrhea. It could happen to anybody. And it was also a cover-up. Everyone was lying about Jerry. Okay. The flight crew was trying to conceal the fact that they had ignored his very real medical emergency. No, they weren't. Yeah, not everyone agreed.

In court roughly a week after the asplosion, Assistant U.S. Attorney Tim Mocked admonished Jerry. He said what he did was an outrageous act that clearly threatened the safety of the passengers. His actions show he has a problem with his drinking and it creates hazards. Yeah. But Jerry's lawyer, Charles, was like, wait just a minute. My client is a graduate of the Air Force Academy. He's been married for 35 years. He has logged 5 million frequent flyer miles without incident, Brandy. I don't care.

One incident is all it takes. This has all been blown out of proportion. No, my dude climbed atop a beverage cart and shat everywhere. There's no proportion you can blow that out of. Anyway you sliced it, it's terrible. The purpose of this court appearance was for the prosecution to try to amend the terms of Jerry's bail. They wanted him to enter an alcohol abuse program. They also wanted to make it so that he couldn't get on another flight without permission from the court, which seems fair.

And so U.S. Magistrate Judge Joan Azrak heard these arguments and agreed with the prosecution. Jerry's bail was amended. A few months later, in February of 1996, Jerry appeared before Magistrate Judge Stephen Gold, and this time he pled guilty to threatening a flight attendant. It was a misdemeanor. He admitted to the judge that he'd threatened the flight attendant because the flight attendant wouldn't serve him another glass of wine. He said, I became annoyed and said words that implied a physical threat. What? The article didn't say if this was the judge.

It must have been the judge. It was like, did you tell the flight attendant you were going to bust their ass? And Jerry was like, oh, it might have been something to that effect. I don't know if it's those exact words. It seems like me. Jerry's lawyer told the court that Jerry was a, quote, marvelously decent human being. Marvelously decent. Marvelously decent.

So decent, in fact, that he climbed atop a beverage cart, pooped everywhere, and wiped his poop all over everything. Also, he shoved a flight attendant and told another one he was going to bust their ass. Yeah. Great guy. His lawyer also said that, quote, he's not a man with a problem. Okay. Are you kidding me? This is absolutely somebody with a problem.

somebody with a problem. Amazingly, the fact that he'd pooped all over the plane somehow didn't come up in court. Afterward, when asked about it by the media, his lawyer would only say that Jerry had suffered an intestinal illness that resulted in diarrhea. But in court, the judge asked Jerry if he'd gone through any kind of alcohol treatment program or psychological treatment, and Jerry said no. And the judge was like, okay, but have you had any alcohol within the past 24 hours? And Jerry admitted that he'd had a glass of wine with dinner the night before. The judge said, are you sober as you stand here before me? And Jerry answered, I hope so, your honor.

You hope so? That's obnoxious. Yeah. Oh, you're so charming. Sir, you pooped all over the plane. Yeah. Charming. Sir, you pooped all over the plane. As part of his guilty plea, Jerry agreed to pay the airline $1,000 in cleanup costs.

That's not enough. I can't imagine. They got it done to my satisfaction for $1,000. Just like that whole plane on fire. He also agreed to pay about $50,000 to reimburse the airfare to the other passengers aboard. I mean, that would be the absolute least I would expect. Yes. He also agreed to perform 300 hours of community service. He should have to personally clean poop off of things.

They should just find all kinds of poop-covered things and, like, that's what he has to spend his three hours doing. He has to clean porta-potties. He has to clean porta-potties. He has to clean animal stalls. He has to clean, like, that creepy bathroom at the park. Oh, absolutely. His sentencing took place a few months later. At the time, Judge Gold sentenced him to two years on probation and ordered Jerry to stop drinking on airplanes. Well, that's not enforceable.

Yeah, I know. The judge also ordered him to not drink alcohol excessively anymore. Also not enforceable. And go to counseling. Okay. He could have sentenced Jerry to six months in jail, but he said that Jerry had already, quote, suffered a great deal of humiliation and embarrassment. That's some rich guy treatment. I agree.

That's for sure some rich guy treatment. And that, my dears, is the case of the airplane pooper. Holy shit. Yeah. One thing I didn't mention in this story is that 10 years later, he died from Alzheimer's. Oh. And I wondered if any of this could be related somehow. I don't know.

I lose sympathy when he didn't go to counseling for anything. I mean, you do this. Then you have to go get some sort of treatment because obviously something is wrong. Anyway. Oh, my gosh. Someone had some quote. I wish I would have written it down. It was basically like, you know, short of an act of terrorism, this is the worst thing that can happen on a plane.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Also, I think somebody having a baby on a plane would be terrible because the smells associated with childbirth are terrible. No. See, again, I think it's – You have the joy of a new life being there that cancels out, you think? No, that's not what I was going to say.

I think like – again, it's the same thing as the guy who pooped himself on my flight. It's like if you go into labor – Oh, yeah. You can't – that's not your fault at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't help that and I'm just hoping that everything comes out safely. Yeah. No, you're absolutely right.

But like someone climbs atop a beverage cart and takes a big dookie after being refused wine. Oh, my God. That was a good one. So I've got to admit, someone in the Discord suggested that I cover the – Oh, the pooping runner. Yeah, the pooper jogger, whatever you call it. So I was like, oh, that's a great one. So I pull it up.

That lady was never caught. So, you know, Norman and I were driving back from Michigan. She started looking up poop lawsuits. Well, here's the thing. So, you know, Norman and I were driving back from Michigan. She started looking up poop lawsuits. Well, here's the thing. Once you start looking into that, it's like here are some related stories you might be interested in. So then I clicked on that one and I chose that case based on how much it made us laugh. There was a long time where I couldn't figure out if he actually climbed atop the beverage cart and crouched down. And Norman kept asking, did he climb on top of it or did he just poop onto it?

And I was like, I can only tell you what I've read so far, sir. Very frustrating for both of us, obviously. Obviously. You needed to get to the bottom of that. Should we take some questions from the Discord? Oh, I don't know. We playing hard to get? Yes.

I'm so cute, aren't I? Like, oh, gosh, what will she do? Oh, my gosh, I think this is such a great, great, this is a great question. This is a great question. This is a great question. Errish Kerber asks, as a product of the 80s that survived the 90s, tell us a story from your childhood that was normal back then but sounds outlandish nowadays. I remember my cousin coming down with chicken pox right before school started to prevent me from contracting the pox after school started. My mom and sister decided to host a sleepover so I'd get chicken pox from the cousin before we headed to kindergarten.

It worked. Okay, my parents intentionally exposed me to chicken pox when my sister had it so that we would both get it over with. Yeah. But no, something that I think about for my childhood all the time that like you would never do now, we would ride in the back of my dad's truck. Oh, wow.

Like in the bed of his truck. We thought that was the coolest thing ever. I think you'd be locked up if you did that today. One thing, like, I always think when I see trampolines nowadays and they have, like, the walls around them. Oh, yeah, the net all around it. Yeah, of course they should have that. Yeah.

I mean, we would go bouncing off that thing. Oh, absolutely. Okay. Holden Dim Ankles wants to know, you two have talked about how much you were rule followers. So I'm curious if either of you said curse words when you were kids or if that was a rule you refused to break also. Yeah. No, I was pretty old when I started using curse words. Yeah.

Yeah. And even then, I wouldn't say them in front of my mom for a curse words. Yeah. Yeah. And even then I wouldn't say them in my in front of my mom for a long time. Yeah. One time. I called my mom a bitch. To her face kind of. Kristen. I know.

It was a moment of sheer badassery. My mom was being a bitch. And so I ran up to my room and as I was running up the stairs away from my mom, I said, bitch. And I got in so much trouble. Oh, my gosh. It was worth it because I was such a badass, you know? Yeah. Old-timey Tuscan Potatoes said, what is the grossest word to each of you?

Personally, I can't stand the word panties. I hate the word panties. I say undies. You also say underpants. Underpants. That's my other one. Yeah, yeah. I can't stand the word panties.

It sounds inappropriate to me. What's a word you hate? David doesn't like the word moist. Well, that's a classic. Yeah. I feel like moist and panties are classic hate them words. Oh, gosh. But I'm so different.

What do I? Penetrate, another one I don't like. Oh, you know, I really don't like when people use the word lover seriously. Oh, yeah, yeah. Like if someone introduced me to their lover, I don't know what I would do. If someone introduced me to their lover, I don't know what I would do. Disney Adults has not a question, but we had our second baby girl on Friday and I saved all the new LGT episodes from after the break to binge during labor. My older daughter is a couple of weeks younger than London.

Yes. Congratulations on the new baby. Juliet is her other daughter and is just, yeah, like just a couple of weeks younger than London. So you can confirm that this is not a lie. I can confirm it's not a lie. She's telling the truth. Because that was my first question.

I was like, did she give birth? She did. Does she have another child? I've been lied to before. We just had a bunch of people who just had babies like this week and last week.

I can think of three off the top of my head, which sounds like a bunch. I was going to say. Don't worry about it. Okay, this is a question that I have to bring up. What? I saw it mentioned in the general chat earlier, and they brought it into this one, too.

Actual cannibal Shia LaBeouf says, Do you think Kristen would be similar to Piper in Orange is the New Black if she went to prison? I saw that asked earlier, too. What do you think Kristen would be similar to Piper in Orange is the New Black if she went to prison? I saw that ask earlier, too. What do you think? Would you? Oh, God. I mean, I would hope no. Mm-hmm.

But probably yeah. Right? Because, like— I saw the arguments that were being made earlier. They seemed kind of fun. Okay. What did you think? Someone said, yeah, because, like, I, you know, the judgy.

The judgy. You can't judge me. I'm judging you. So did you ever watch that show? Yeah. I watched all but the final season. Yeah. So I watched it all.

I read the book. Uh-huh. Yeah. Not a Piper fan yeah which i mean probably means that i am a lot like her if i don't like her the one thing is i would say i feel like in that situation i would do a better job of laying low yeah i think you would too yeah yeah also i specifically remember a scene i think it was in the show and she talked about it in her book where she was in the salad line and she picked out all the arugula from the iceberg lettuce. And someone was like, you can't do that.

She's like, I don't eat iceberg lettuce. You wouldn't do that. Never. Yeah. If anything, I'd be the person saying, hey, we all need a little arugula. We're all in this together. Ooh, Gay Frog asks, I have a beverage-related question for each of you.

Okay. Brandy, did you ever end up trying the shamrock shake? If so, what was your opinion? Yes, you and Norm took me through a drive-thru at McDonald's to get it. I thought it was too minty. That tastes like I was drinking a toothpaste shake. And I like mint chocolate chip ice cream, but I was not a fan of the shamrock shake.

I about kicked her out of the car. Almost did. Kristen, your question is, you said a while ago that you prefer to go to a local coffee shop instead of Starbucks. Do you have a favorite? Mine is Hi-Hat in Westwood. Oh, I've always wanted to go to Hi-Hat. That looks so cute.

It does look cute. One of the places I would always go has closed down. Oh, I've always wanted to go to Hi-Hat. That looks so cute. It does look cute. One of the places I would always go has closed down. Oh, okay, great. Mud Pie on 39th Street. But Monarch Coffee in Kansas City, it's really cute. Yeah, I like that place. But really, I mean, I kind of, have I ever... Can you frequent all the coffee shops?

Oh, you know what? There's one that I don't like. There is? Yeah. I really didn't like it oh i went in there i bought a coffee and like a scone or something and then i was gonna do some writing so i asked for the wi-fi password, and the password was, please buy something. Oh. I thought that was so shitty. And it was literally right after I just bought two things. It was kind of like, oh, okay.

Oh. Meg the Crazy Cat Lady wants to know, if either of you committed a serious crime, would you turn the other one in? Oh, I feel like we'll have different answers for this. You would turn me in for sure. I probably would, but I'd put you in contact with a lawyer first. Ruben's case, Ruben's company. I'd help you first.

I'd get you a really good defense attorney and then I'd get you to turn yourself in. What if I was like, no? Then I'd have to do it. Wow. Wow. What would you do? I'm not a snitch. Unlike yourself.

Oh, no. No, it would depend on what you did. Yeah, it would depend on what you did. Yeah, it would depend on what you did. Yeah. But I can see myself not saying shit. Yeah, I think you'd be more likely to do it than I would, yes. Blaise Slays asks, if you could ethically pet an exotic animal and safely, what would you pet? I've got two.

Well, it's obviously a lion. Lion right here. Uh-huh. You have to tell people. Right between the eyes. She's touching the crotch. No, I am not touching the crotch. How dare you?

No, right between the eyes, right on the bridge of their nose. Looks so soft. And then also I'd want to touch their ears. Uh-huh. Okay, but then also like a baby hippo. Oh, gosh. They look so cute, don't they? Okay.

Yeah. I'd like to touch a baby hippo too. Right in the crotch, Kristen. You're the one who's on a podcast and going, I'd touch him right here. What am I supposed to do with that? PTSD out. The Wing Wang wants to know, Brandyy I need more information about your makeup sleep routine do you wake up with your makeup smudged in the morning you said recently you don't use

waterproof mascara does it get all over your pillowcase if so how often do you have to change your pillowcase I'm sorry I just need to know more I'm intrigued I totally understand all these questions yes I wake up and my makeup is smudged all over the place. Like, yeah, I have mascara smudged, like, all on my face. Like, that's the first thing I do when I wake up is go clean my face with a makeup wipe. I don't know if you're aware of this, but you can do that right before you go to bed, too. It's allowed. Also, my makeup does get on my pillowcase and I wash it about every week. I use the OxiClean white stuff to – it's just like fresh as a daisy again.

Have you ever thought about changing up your routine? No, it works for me. It's working just fine. Yeah, it is. That's so annoying oh we've got a related question to that last one okay okay mimi's crusty muffin wants to know brandy how did the sleeping in your makeup ritual start you seem like such a rule follower and that's a makeup 101 rule bonus. Was this a gateway to breaking

other rules? Asking for a fellow rule follower. No, it was not a gateway to breaking other rules. Probably just started out of laziness and then I didn't have any adverse reaction to it. So I just kept on doing it. I mean, it is amazing because it is like the number one rule. Yeah. And yet you've broken it. Yeah. Like a badass. I am truly a badass. No, I'm the one who called my bitch, my mama bitch and ran away. I'm the one who called my bitch

a mom and ran away. So I asked her for permission because, you know, last week I told the story about her at Ross, you know, getting into a war with that old lady over the comforter. And I asked for permission to tell that story. And she was like, yeah, that's fine. And then she texted something like, I'll have to really censor myself around you from now on. And I was like, that'd be great. Thank you. Daryl, stop.

We're just material for her. That's right. Oh, charay-ray. Should we move on to some Supreme Court inductions? I believe we shall. How do you get inducted on this podcast? I'm asking

you because I genuinely don't know, not because I'm not in the right place on my form. I'm asking you because I genuinely don't know, not because I'm not in the right place on my form. Wow. Well, Brandi, you sign up on our Patreon at the $7 level or higher. And once you sign up, we have a list that has been pinned to the top of our Patreon for approximately five years. Yes.

And it asks you your name, your pronunciation, and your favorite cookie. Oh. And you just add that information right there. Thank you. Are you in the right place now? I am.

Great. We're going to continue to read your names and your favorite cookies. Cassandra Vasquez. Caramel Chocolate Chip Chewies. What the hell? Yeah, what is that? I don't know.

Brianna Stanley. Any S'mores Ice Cream Treat. What?? I don't know. Brianna Stanley. Any s'mores ice cream treat. What? That's not a cookie, Brianna. Boy, people are really playing fast and loose with the rules. Dixie. Girl Scout Thin Mints. Katie Foley.

Black Forest Cookies. Jamie Butt Slut Rob. Brown Butter Chocolate with sea salt. And your motto. Tagalogs. Wait, she called it Tagalogs. Oh, you're right. I think she meant Tagalogs.

We just don't know. Maybe this is an off-brand. They're shaped like logs. They've got little knots in them and stuff. I don't know why they don't sell very well. Lexi Coleman. The raspberry cheesecake cookies from Subway. Everybody loves that.

Several people have said this. I've never even heard of this cookie. Obviously, I'm not frequently. I can't even tell you the last time I had Subway. I can. It was like four years ago, wasn't it? That time we went in. We didn't even eat it, though.

We just picked it up for Norm. Oh, okay. So then it was even longer ago than that. Anyway, we're in the middle of inductions. I was like, what'd you have? And you said, yeah. Look, I didn't hear him, okay? I thought I could just fake my way

through the interaction. I obviously couldn't. Lucita Bastow. Arnott's Mint Slice. What? She says, kind of like Thin Mints, but there is mint icing inside. Okay, well, that sounds delicious. Jane Atwood.

Chocolate Chocolate Chip. Abby Carr. Frosted sugar cookies from a very specific booth at my local farmer's market. She won't tell us which one. I'll never do. Angela Thomas. Crumble copycat snickerdoodles. Oh.

Oh, can't try the real thing because it's stupid gluten. Oh. Hannah Larish. Chocolate chip from Great American Cookie. Is that like the place at the mall? Isn't that like a mall cookie place? I think so. Yeah.

But I haven't been to a mall in years. I'm partial to Mrs. Fields because they have the peanut butter dream bars. Oh. No one asked. No one did ask. Pam Cargo. Fruity Pebbles cookies.

Welcome to the Supreme Court. Thank you for all of your support, everyone. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Patreon. Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and then head on over to Apple Podcasts. Leave us a five-star rating and review. And then be sure to join us next week

when we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. I got my info from the court record, Jerry's obituary, the Associated And sometimes Wikipedia. An article for St. Louis Magazine by Jeanette Cooperman. An article for Medium by A.J. Wiseman. Fox 2 News and The Court Record. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.