Let's Go To Court! - 233: A Catastrophe and a Preppy Rapist

Episode Date: October 26, 2022

James Scott had a reputation for wreaking havoc. As a teen, he burned down an abandoned elementary school. A few years later, he set fire to an apartment complex and a garage. But by 1993, he seemed to have settled down. He was married and out of prison, working at Burger King. Then came the Great Flood of 1993. That summer, James Scott did what many other local residents did – he helped reinforce levees along the Mississippi River. Later, when one broke, people were certain that James was the one to blame.  Then Kristin tells us about a total shitbag named Alex Kelly. Alex grew up privileged. He was an undefeated wrestler, a football player, and an honor roll student. At a party one night in 1986, he raped a fellow student. A few nights later, he raped another teen. Investigators soon arrested Alex, but he wasn’t accustomed to facing consequences. When it came time for Alex to face trial, he was nowhere to be found. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “The Fugitive Son,” by Jennet Conant for Vanity Fair “The Fugitive Son,” episode of Vanity Fair Confidential “In retrial, Alex Kelly is convicted of rape committed 11 years ago,” by Monte Williams for The New York Times “Tiny dramas, big piques at Alex Kelly rape trial,” by Monte Williams for The New York Times “Alex Kelly lied, former friend testifies,” by Monte Williams for The New York Times “Fiancee testifies in Alex Kelly rape case,” by Monte Williams for The New York Times “Without putting Kelly on stand, defense in his rape retrial rests,” by Monte Williams for The New York Times “Alex Kelly avoids trial in second rape,” by William Glaberson for The New York Times “Rapist famous for evading justice establishes skydiving business in North Adams, questions delays,” by Josh Landes for WAMC Northeast Public Radio In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Catastrophe” podcast episode, Criminal  “Catastrophe on the Mississippi — The Man Who Flooded a Town For Sex” by Ash Jurberg, Medium “Revisiting The Great Flood of 1993 and James Scott” by Adam Pitluk, Huffington Post “Man Convicted of Sabotaging Levee” Associated Press, The New York Times “The Great Flood of 1993: The James Scott Story” ABC17 News “State of Missouri v. James R. Scott” findlaw.com “James Scott” wikipedia.org “Great Flood of 1993” wikipedia.org YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 40+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts! I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court! On this episode, I'll be talking about the preppy rapist. And I'll be talking about a catastrophe.

Ooh, I'm kind of excited. Do you know this story? Based off the word catastrophe? And the name that I called dibs on? No. Okay. This case is such a Kristen case. I'm worried you know all about it already.

But it is my gift to you covering this case. Okay. Folks, let me tell you about my best friend who just threw me the most amazing bachelorette party this weekend. Oh, you're so sweet. Oh, we had the best time. It was so fun. It was so fun. Okay, Kristen is such a good friend, in fact.

And she busted her fucking lip putting up decorations for this party. You know, it looks a lot better. It does look better. looks a lot better it does look better um everybody every penis decoration under the stars is what i put up in my home already had it you know just you know from last tuesday right right no i hit myself in the face with a chair i'm so so sorry. It is your fault. I mean, I apologize for having a need for a bachelorette party. No, it was so fun. We played some games.

We had delicious dinner. We had the most sophisticated dick cake you've ever seen in your life. Yeah, we're going to have to post pictures of it. And I'll tell the epic story of acquiring the penis cake. Yes. Later in the episode. So, you know, for anyone who was about to turn it off. No.

No. Stay tuned for that. Yeah. It was amazing and exactly what I wanted. And thank you. You're welcome. I'm so excited for you. As a thank you, I have a Christian case for you to enjoy today.

Is no one going to be murdered? No, no one is murdered. Oh, my gosh. Yay. Well, first, let's do an ad. Oh, yeah, shit. Ads, right. We have those.

Stop it. Okay, do you want to do a butt plug for our Patreon? Everybody, if you're a member of the Patreon, bend over. It's time for our butt plug. Yes, I do want to plug our Patreon because you know what's going on right now? We got a hot new bonus episode. We got a hot new bonus episode. It's out, baby.

Yeah. Go listen to it at the $5 level or higher. And we talked about. I don't remember. We recorded so long ago. I covered a suicide. Oh, yeah, that was a terrible case. Okay, yours was terrible too.

You covered a rape. What are you, on a theme? Oh, gosh, I guess I am. I thought mine was a little more lighthearted. What did it... It wasn't. Nope. Sorry.

Nope, just two terrible cases. Great. Terrible new episode't. Nope. Sorry. Nope. Just two terrible cases. Great. Terrible new episode out. Thanks a lot. Enjoy. At the... You know, we've got a lot of levels on there. There's all kinds of levels.

You can get cards signed by one or both of us. Sometimes none. Yeah. You can get a sticker. You can get ad-free episodes a day early. It's kind of a choose-your-own-adventure situation. Pick which level you want to be at. Wow.

I'm so intrigued. You want to go pick your own adventure? I think I'll sign up. Can't wait to listen to those terrible cases. All right. You ready? Yes. Okay.

Shout-outs to... Okay. Shout outs to... Okay, so I... What? Well, I was going to say, I found this case in a really odd way. Reading some hate comments on Twitter. I went down like a rabbit hole. Hateful about us? No, no, no, no, no.

Hateful about the most ridiculous things. People getting out of prison. about the most ridiculous things. People getting out of prison. Like, I believe that I went on a journey through some tweets about Adnan Syed being released and having his charges dropped, which, like, amazing, finally, right?

Well, not everybody's super thrilled about that. And also, other people think that there are other cases that are more important that should be being focused on. So, people really have a great time sharing their opinions on Twitter. And this case was mentioned. And so anyway,

I went down a little rabbit hole, read it and was like, this is such a fucking Kristen case. So shout out to whoever that was on Twitter that angrily tweeted about this case. And then to an episode of a little tiny podcast you may have heard of called Criminal. Huh? Hello. A little tiny podcast you may have heard of called Criminal. Huh? Hello?

And an article for Medium. Most of this comes from those sources. Okay. It was the summer of 1993, and much of the United States was on flood watch. Do you remember the great flood? I mean, you guys, were you living in Mexico at that time? We were in Mexico, yeah. Okay.

So heavy snowfall from the previous winter had resulted in higher than normal water levels in the Mississippi and Missouri rivers and their tributaries due to snow melt off. And then the spring came and brought with it, according to Wikipedia, voluminous rainfall. The central northern plains, including areas of Kansas, Missouri, and Iowa, received 400 to 750 percent more rainfall than normal. Wow. I remember this very clearly. My grandparents actually ended up coming and staying with us for a while during this time because the flood threat was huge. The grounds were super saturated from all the rainfall. The rivers were cresting at any time.

Levees were put up all over the place. So as a result of this, more than 1,000 flood warnings and special weather statements were issued that spring and summer. That's more than five times the average during that time period. And thousands of levees were built along the rivers to keep the water in. So levees are like earthen dams that are built up along riverbanks, essentially giving rivers higher water capacity. How does it work, though? So it holds the water in, Kristen. I don't understand.

I think you do. I don't think the listeners understand. I think they also do. Earthen dams? Like, what? Anyway, one such area where these levees were built up was around the Bayview Bridge, which spans the Mississippi River and connects Quincy, Illinois to West Quincy, Missouri. The town of Quincy sat up high above the river on

limestone bluffs, so flooding wasn't a major concern there. But across the river in West Quincy, Missouri, there was a major risk of being flooded and it would basically wash the town off the map if the levees failed. Shit. And so levee watch became a major task in West Quincy in the spring and summer of 1993. It became clear as the river began to crest near West Quincy that the levees were not high enough. So the National Guard, they were already in place. They were the people who built the levees to begin with. They were in charge of all of the levees during this flood watch time. And so they were in charge of these levees and they were like, OK, we've got to rework them.

We've got to make them taller. And so they reworked the levees to make them taller. But at the same time, when they reworked that sand and dirt that was making these levees, it made them thinner as well. But, you know, in order to reinforce them, they put these like plastic sheeting over the levees and then they stacked sandbags on top of that to give it additional height, additional. Plastic sheeting. Plastic sheeting, yes. That doesn't seem like enough.

I agree. Yes. Did they have reason to believe that that would be enough? Yeah, I mean it seemed to be working. They thought that it was still thick enough that it would hold the water in. And they had people actively like walking the levees every day to look for weak spots. And so it was decided like this was the best plan. And we're talking like a ton of like this levee area was huge, miles long.

We're talking tons and tons of sandbags on top. 3.5 million sandbags, to be exact. Like, these are some big-ass levees. Yeah. And to do all of this, it took lots of hands and lots of volunteers to get the work done. And then once the levees were built, they had to have people monitoring them, checking for weak spots, and that took, you know, volunteers as well. One of those volunteers was James Jimmy Scott. Jimmy had a bit of a reputation in the Quincy, West Quincy area.

He caught his first arson charge at just 13 years old. Oh, good. Mm-hmm. So he and his brother had broken into their old elementary school, which had been closed down like a year or two before. They'd like, he had two brothers. I think Jimmy was the middle. He had an older and a younger. They'd broken into the school. They'd like climbed a fire escape, broken a window, got in. And they were just, you know, running through the school, smoking cigarettes, being badasses. And then they went into the school auditorium.

And one brother, the youngest brother, wanted a cigarette. Jimmy said no. Then the youngest brother wanted to hold the lighter. And so he said no again. And then somebody dared somebody to set the curtains in the auditorium on fire. Oh, Lord. And so they did, not really realizing how fast they would catch or how quickly that fire could spread. And so they held the lighter to the curtains.

They very quickly went up in flames. And then they tried to stomp them out, but it just spread so fast. And so they ran from the building. And it burned completely to the ground. You're kidding. No. Firefighters weren't able to get there or did they just decide it's an abandoned elementary school? Well, yeah.

I mean, when the boys left the school, they didn't call the police or anything. And so, yeah, I think it was allowed to burn for some time before anybody knew that there was a situation going on. So, yeah, it was the building was completely destroyed. And it took like no time to track it back to the three Scott boys. Jimmy was bragging that he'd done something big at the old school. And so, yeah, like three days after this, the three boys were arrested. Jimmy was determined to be the instigator of his brothers. And so his oldest brother just got probation.

His youngest brother was like sent home with nothing. Yeah. And Jimmy was sent to a youth home to finish out the school year. It's like a boys reform school type of situation is what I'm imagining. I don't really know what a youth home is, but. OK. So he did. He finished out the school year there

and then he had to get like a mental evaluation at the end of the school year and it was determined that he could go back home. He was diagnosed with ADD at that time during that mental evaluation.

The cool kids often are, Brandy. So Jimmy. Are you ever jealous of me? Of your ADHD? Well, and all the other great things I've got going on. I'm jealous of you constantly, Kristen. Oh my God, shut up the other great things I've got going on. I'm jealous of you constantly, Kristen. Oh, my God.

Shut up. I know. I know. Okay. So Jimmy was able to go home during the summer of 1982, but he was never really. 1982? I thought this was. Oh, right.

Sorry. We're going back in time. We're talking time, Kristen. Everybody, please keep up. Okay? Please keep up. My God. We're talking time. Everybody, please keep up. Hey, please keep up. My God, dumbasses. But he was never really able to shake the reputation he got from his first arson.

Kids he'd played with for years now said their parents wouldn't let them hang out with him. And so he kind of spiraled from there. He started setting, like like little fires pretty regularly. And in one of them, he destroyed this antique tractor that was kept in this carport at some property that he was at. Another time he set an apartment on fire. That was like a girl that he liked lived there and she had like rejected him.

I could not think of the word. Did you like this? Yeah, that was the go away gesture. Yes, uh-huh. Well, shit. And he also set a car wash on fire. Okay. Well, no wonder nobody wanted their kids hanging out with him.

So by the time that he was 18. But no one was hurt. I mean, he set an apartment. No, no one was hurt in any of the fires. Dear God. Yeah. Dear God. Yeah. Thank God. I feel like Yeah. Okay. So by this time, by this time, Jimmy was 18.

I'm mostly concerned about that model. What was it? It was an antique tractor. Oh, no. Not the antique tractor. Also, you light a car wash on fire. I mean, couldn't they hose that off? They got the water right there. Oh, my.

Sorry. By this time, Jimmy was 18, and he was arrested and charged with six counts of arson and one count of disorderly conduct. He was convicted, and he was sentenced to seven years in prison. charged with six counts of arson and one count of disorderly conduct. He was convicted and he was sentenced to seven years in prison. After serving about three of those years, he was released from prison. And it seems he tried to better himself. He got a job at Burger King, started seriously dating this girl named Susie, and they got married. And, you know, things are pretty good.

But Jimmy liked to have a good time. He liked to party. He liked to drink. And he still had that reputation he was carrying around with him. Why are you making him seem like the victim of this? I mean, he's carrying it around for a reason. It's because he kept setting fires. Yeah, he set multiple fires.

Yeah. Yeah, he did. reason it's because he kept setting fires multiple fires yeah yeah he did everyone i'm looking at brandy with squinty eyes you squint all you want you know every day brandy wakes up she goes i'm just walking around with this reputation that i cut hair and i just don't understand like i just can't shake this reputation that I cut people's hair. Then she goes in and she cuts people's hair. Yeah, I think that like even though he's served his time for his crimes, like it's really hard for people to not consider you still a criminal. Oh, that's what you're saying.

That's what I'm saying, yes. You're not saying like – I thought maybe he had a nickname like Fiery Jim. I didn't come across that anywhere. Okay. In the summer of 1993, Jimmy became concerned about the flood watch. He had watched the news coverage about levees breaking all along the Mississippi River. More than a thousand levees failed that year, resulting in massive flooding.

20 million acres of land was destroyed and it topped $15 billion in damages. Wow. It was a massive flood. Yeah. Jimmy felt himself called to help at the levees in West Quincy. He said he was trying to better himself and this seemed like the perfect opportunity. Or, depending on who you want to believe, maybe Jimmy volunteered at the levees because he saw an opportunity to create destruction

on a massive level, way bigger than any fire he'd ever set. And maybe he went there to intentionally sabotage a levee, which would then trap his wife on the other side of the Mississippi River in Quincy, Illinois, while he would be in West Quincy, Missouri, which would leave him free to party and bang all of the chicks he wanted while his wife was trapped, you know. No, that can't be the motive. Sure, it could be. Just go bang some chicks.

No, because his wife's always nagging on him. Everywhere he looks, there's his fucking wife. Well, there are easier solutions to that problem than breaking a levy. No. Either way you want to believe it. On July 16th, 1993. The weird thing is that's the only way you can cheat on your spouse. You have to destroy a levee.

You have to destroy a levee. Yeah. So if you don't want to get cheated on, I mean, don't live near levees. Don't live near levees. Stay away from rivers. near levees. Stay away from rivers. On July 16th, 1993, Jimmy Scott was at the site of the West Quincy levee. By this point, the river had stopped rising. It had crested and then the water levels had started to drop. It dropped about one and a half feet at this point. So we're not talking major, major recession. Is that what people say?

The water levels had receded? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I know what I'm talking about. I sound smart. But it started to go down and people thought, you know, okay, we're headed in the right direction. We're moving away from major flood risk here. We're moving away from major flood risk here.

But that night, one of the levee in West Quincy breached. And a massive flood happened as a result of it. A levee failed and the river was able to burst through. And it flooded 14,000 acres on the Missouri side of the river. A barge was like sucked through the breach in the levee and then the barge just like floated along with the floodwaters and crashed into a gas station, which then burst into flames. Holy shit. Yes.

Jimmy must have been hard as a rock. Tell me I'm wrong. Christian! That's wildly inappropriate, ma'am. That's what they said to him. They were like, sir, this is a tragedy. Anyway, the flood washed out all of the bridges in the area. So it completely separated West Quincy, Missouri from Quincy, Illinois.

The only way to get across the river was to drive like 200 miles out of the way. And that bridge would take like – the main bridge, Bayview Bridge, would take like 70 some days to repair. And so the two towns were cut off from each other except for this wildly out of the way route for that long. So Jimmy had 70 days to just bang all the chips. Live it up.

Just bang like crazy. Obviously, lots of businesses were destroyed. Like 40 homes were destroyed. Yeah, it was terrible. WGEM-TV, which is the NBC affiliate in Quincy, was reporting on the flood watch, on the levee watch of the area. And then after the levee breach, she was kind of on the scene looking to talk to anybody who had been involved. And she happened upon Jimmy Scott, who was down in the area. And he said that he'd been working on levee watch that day and he'd noticed an area in the area. And he said that he'd been working on levee watch that day and he'd noticed an area in the levee that looked weak to him. And he pointed it out to a National Guards member.

And he'd gotten the National Guardsmen to come with him for some ways, but they walked like half a mile. And the National Guardsman's like, how much further is this? And he's like, well, it's downriver, you know, a little ways further. And he's like, you know what? We're not even worried about that far down. We're more worried. The weak spots are up here, so I'm sure it's fine. And so he said that he had taken, you know, a couple of sandbags and tried to kind of shear up the area where he saw the weakness. And then, you know, he'd gone on and had a drink, hadn't really thought anything of it, met some friends, whatever. And then when he'd heard that the levee had breached, he got down there to the scene as fast as he could. And he was helping them pull boats in the water and help the Coast Guard and do rescue missions and whatever.

And, yeah, he'd seen the whole thing. Hmm. So he tells this to a news reporter and his, you know, it seems that he was there that day, you know, doing the levy checks and he had talked to a National Guardsman. But a couple of people were watching this interview that day, namely a police detective named Neil Baker. I'm sorry. He may have been a police sergeant. I believe I read somewhere he was a detective, but maybe I made that up. What in the ever-loving hell? Get it together, Brandi. Anyway, police officer, rank unknown, position unknown, was watching the news report and he recognized Jimmy Scott immediately.

Because he'd been the officer that had investigated all of his arson cases. Right. And he was like, fucking Jimmy Scott is on the news. He was there when the levy broke. What are the fucking odds of that? And he thought Jimmy didn't look like he should look for someone who'd been working the levy all day. He said he looked too clean. He said that he didn't have a life jacket on.

And he said he didn't look like he was like that out of breath from helping people and stuff. And so Neil Baker thought, I bet that Jimmy Scott is up to it again. I bet he sabotaged that levy. And that's why it broke. Doesn't that seem like a really big leap to go from like – Well, fuck yes, it does. I mean that levy. Again, that seems... And that's why it broke. Doesn't that seem like a really big leap to go from like... Well, fuck yes it does! I mean, that seems ridiculous. And also, like, how long had it been since Jimmy was supposedly helping out?

I mean, had it been a while, maybe he caught his breath. Yeah, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Is he about to get... Is he about to get the blame for this whole thing? And I've been talking shit about this, dude.

Brandy, you always let me do this. And I'm such a sweet person naturally. So you bring it out of me. OK, so this this Neil Baker, he's a police sergeant with the Quincy Police Department. He's on the Illinois side. So people on the Missouri side are also looking at this. They catch this interview, too, and they're like, I don't know. This guy seems to know exactly what happened.

How does he know that? And why would the levy have broken where it did? Like it wasn't one of the spots that they were super concerned about. It didn't seem to be, like, an issue that had been noted, like, that that was a particularly weak spot or a spot that needed to be watched. And so they got to talking with Mr. It sounds like even if it was pointed out as a weak spot, they didn't want to go look. So you don't just get to decide, no, that's not a weak spot. And no, we're not going to go look at it.

What if they thought it was one of the strongest spots along the levee? Well, go fucking check. I'm sorry you have to walk half a mile. Good grief, get your steps in. And so West Quincy authorities start talking to Quincy authorities and they're sharing stories about old Jimmy Scott. And before you know it, they bring Jimmy Scott in to ask him what role he played in the levee breaking that day. Well, yeah. I mean, here's the thing.

If he's responsible, that's great, right? Yeah. That's wonderful. Wonderful. If he's not responsible, then oh shit, we ignored a warning. We didn't do what we were supposed to do. All these homes and businesses were destroyed. I assume no one was hurt, right?

No one was hurt. OK. Thank God. Yeah. But still, that's a lot of money. Yeah. It's a ton of money. Millions of dollars in damage.

Yeah. So blame Jimmy. Yeah. He's just a bad seat anyway that's what i'm screaming and so they bring him in and he's like i mean yeah i i worked the levy that day i was there volunteering you know he tells the whole story i pointed out i got I got a National Guardsman to come walk with me. I showed him a spot that I was worried about. He didn't come all the way. And so I took some sandbags and, you know, I arranged them so it would kind of shore up that spot that I thought was weak. And then he's like, do you think that's what did it? Did me taking the sandbags, is that what caused this to fail?

He's like, I never thought that it would do that. Like it. Oh, he was really distraught. He's like, did I did my concern over this levy and my move not really knowing what I was doing. Did that result in this flood? Am I really the cause of it? Poor Jimmy. I know.

Yeah. Am I really the cause of it? Poor Jimmy. I know, right? Yeah. And so at that point, they let him go. And months go by. But they keep investigating Jimmy Scott. They want to pin this on him so badly. Yep. And so in October, Jimmy Scott was arrested on a burglary charge. So he was like working his job at Burger King.

He comes out of work one day and there is Detective Neil Baker. Maybe detective. Who knows? He is for sure a sergeant. This much we know. Let's just give him all the titles and then we can't possibly be wrong. This much we know. Let's just give him all the titles and then we can't possibly be wrong.

And Neil Baker's brother, who's also a police officer of some— Miss Missouri. We're giving them all the titles. No, this is in Quincy, Illinois, Kristen. Excuse me. He will have to give up that title at the end of his reign. So they arrest him on a burglary charge and he he's like, what did I what did I burgle? And they're like, there's plenty of time to talk about that, Jimmy.

Why don't we talk about the levy? What? And so they arrest him on a burglary charge. But then they only question him about the levy breach. And let me guess, he didn't ask for an attorney. I did not find anywhere that he asked for attorney. Damn it, Jimmy. I know. And so he told them the same thing that he told them before. He said, yes, I saw a weak spot. I tried to get somebody to pay attention to me, somebody to listen. Nobody wanted to listen. And so I pulled

four sandbags from another part of the levy and I put them at the part where I saw the weak spot. He said he saw water trickling through and that the water was kind of cloudy. And so to him, that meant that the levee was eroding into the water and that the water was making it through. And there was like a bit of a puddle that was forming. So enough, like this was substantial water that was coming through. Yes. That's why he was concerned. That's why he tried to get the National Guardsmen to walk more than half a mile.

So he told the police, my town was in trouble. The folks in Quincy and in West Quincy were about to lose everything. That's why I went down to the levee. I didn't have plans to hurt anything. They needed help. And so I helped. He said, I didn't mean plans to hurt anything. They needed help. And so I helped. He said, I didn't mean to cause a problem. But if I did, I'm up shit creek.

And they were like, hmm, you like creeks, do you? And so he was really adamant. He told the same story. Like, this is what I did. If I did cause this levy to breach. Oh, my God. This poor man. Which I can't imagine moving four sandbags out of 3.5 million sandbags is really the reason behind a levy breaching.

No, but like they want it to be his fault. Yeah. And yeah, maybe they're convincing him on some level that it is. Oh, my God. Yeah. And yeah, maybe they're convincing him on some level that it is. Oh, my God. Yeah. So they interrogated him for about an hour and a half about only the levy. No mention of the burglary that they brought him in on. He was released that day. But whatever the burglary charges were, they ended up filing those against him and he was convicted in January of 1994 of some burglary charge and he was sentenced to 10 years in prison. Wow. Yeah.

So they've got him in custody, prison, whatever, with the burglary charge. Burglary charge. And so they really worked on building this catastrophe case against him. Did you know in the state of Missouri it is illegal to knowingly cause a catastrophe? Like, that's a law on the books. I mean, isn't that true anywhere? It's not on the books everywhere. No. I feel like that's got to be a thing.

So it became a law in 1979. And the law defines a catastrophe as, quote, death or serious physical injury to 10 or more people or substantial damage to five or more buildings or inhabitable structures or substantial damage to a vital public facility, which seriously impairs its usefulness or operation. So while he's in custody, while he's serving his burglary time, he is then taken to Missouri to stand trial for knowingly causing a catastrophe. What evidence do they have? You know, people saw him there. And like he was an arsonist.

So obviously the next step is causing a levy to break. That is ridiculous. It is ridiculous. So in November of 1994, Scott was tried for knowingly, I'm sorry, intentionally causing a catastrophe. At trial, prosecutors told the jury that they believed that Jimmy Scott had either removed or cut the plastic sheeting that went over the levee. And then he'd kind of burrowed through it like a worm. What? Mm-hmm.

To, like, loosen it up? Uh-huh. Through the sand and soil that was packed up, creating literal dam walls. Mm-hmm. Wouldn't that be incredibly difficult to do? Yes, it fucking would. And wouldn't you look like you'd done it? Yes, and wouldn't you likely die?

Yes. Yes. All of those things. What? Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah. That's their theory.

That's ridiculous. Yeah. He liked to create havoc. He liked destruction. Yeah. And he found an opportunity to do it on a massive scale. Honestly, I would be inclined to agree with the first two. Mm-hmm.

But this one's ridiculous. Yeah. It's so different than starting a fire or robbing someone. Yes. Also, I think it's worth noting that the people who saw him being interviewed on TV thought that he looked too clean. Well, see, what happened was he got through all that sand and dirt, right? And like he got sucked up into the water, which cleanses you.

And there you go. Also, he came out the plastic tarp. Also didn't have a life jacket on. Very strong swimmer. And the waters were so powerful once the levee breached that it sucked a barge, which crashed into a gas station. Yet somehow Jimmy was able to perfectly get out of the way. Maybe he had like a pogo stick. Just jumped right out of there after he burrowed through.

But back, back, backed it up. Jet skied it. Okay. Sure. Sure. Why not? You tell me how he did it, Brandi. So the prosecution did have a couple of witnesses testify who had known Jimmy and had said that.

Yeah, but they didn't see him do anything like this. No, but you know what they'd heard, Kristen? What? They'd heard him say at a party, sure would be cool if the levee breached and my wife was stuck in Quincy and I was over here in West Quincy and I could just party it up without her around. Yeah, I mean, that sounds like a kind of dirtbag, dumb thing to say. Which is exactly what Jimmy says. Jimmy's like, yeah, I probably did say that. And it's a stupid joke, but it was only a joke.

Right. Yeah. No, that's the damning testimony presented at trial. That's stupid. It's that two people had heard him say. This prosecutor shouldn't have even gone through with this. This is ridiculous. The defense relied on like a soil science expert who had looked at the levees, who had studied the flood, had studied the thousands

of levees that had broken that summer and said, this levee just broke. The levee just failed. No one sabotaged it. Right. It just failed. Well, we don't want to hear that. Right. Well, we don't want to hear that.

Right. The prosecution played the police recordings. So the interrogation that they'd done with Jimmy Scott where he'd said, I did. I removed, you know, four sandbags from one area and moved them to the area that was weaker. They played this in court and the prosecution claimed that was him admitting that he tampered with the levy. Oh, OK. No, that is so ridiculous. And again, four sandbags. Yeah.

I'm sorry. That's not going to do shit. No. No, it's not. Good or bad. It's not going to do shit. It's not going to do anything. And that's not even what they're trying to say he did.

They're trying to say he burrowed like a little water moccasin or whatever. Oh, God. That's a snake. I know. Well, they go on land and in water. Yeah. That's why I chose it. Okay, great.

That's a good call. Should I have selected a duck boat? Oh, that's problematic. Why? Maybe we should cover that case. A whole duck boat load of people died when one sank not that long ago in Table Rock. Oh, shit. Aren't those like touristy?

Yes. Oh. Yeah. See, when people say, do I not understand what problematic means? I thought problematic meant like.

Oh, yeah. I definitely used the term wrong. Oh, okay. For sure. I thought duck boats were racist or something. I was like,

what'd they do? Well, I think there's like some questions about whether they should be allowed to still be in business and operating. And I'm not sure if they are or not. What with all the Nazi comments.

Yeah, I get it. Sure. One of them pinched my fanny one time. What? Say that. Oh, so now I'm not allowed to speak out about it. You're problematic. Oh, so now I'm not allowed to speak out about it. You're problematic. Oh, no.

The trial lasted for three days. How'd they even fill three days? This is stupid. Did they call up the National Guardsman who, like, couldn't get off his bum bum? I don't know. They should have. Yeah, they absolutely should have. The jury deliberated

for four hours. Did those fuckers find him guilty? And they found Jimmy Scott guilty. That is ridiculous. Of causing a catastrophe. Y'all ever heard a reasonable doubt? That is so fucking stupid. It is so ridiculous. You want to know what's more ridiculous? Oh no, what was his sentence? fucking stupid. It is so ridiculous. You want to know what's more ridiculous? Oh, no. What was his sentence? Ten years to life. Oh, my God. There wasn't enough evidence

of this. He was sentenced to ten years to life in prison. To run consecutively to his ten year burglary sentence. So, really, twenty years minimum. Yeah. This is why you should never volunteer for anything.

Is that the message? That's the message. Absolutely. So at his sentencing the judge said something to the effect of you know it's funny that this started with fire and

ended with water. Yes. Yes, it is. Hilarious. I don't think you meant funny. Ha ha. But, you know. Yeah.

Funny. Ironic, maybe. Yeah. It's like a black fly in your Chardonnay. Is that what the lyrics are? Yeah, a death row. Black fly. Yeah, I never understood that part.

All I ever heard was, I knew Chardonnay. Never knew what she was saying. Black fly in your Chardonnay. Yeah. Isn't that ironic? Yeah, the death row pardoned. Two minutes. Two minutes too late.

That's right. Remember when you met Norm and then you saw me? What? Think on it. You'll get it. It's a real. It's a thinker. Meeting the man of your dreams in the meeting is beautiful.

Why? Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.

You're like, oh, gosh, I guess I'll just be your friend. I mean, what can we do here? Okay. So Scott appealed his conviction. Yes. In 1997, he appealed his conviction. Yes. In 1997, he appealed based on prosecutorial misconduct. So the two people that testified at trial saying that they had heard Jimmy Scott say, oh, I'm going to, you know, wouldn't it be wouldn't it be hilarious if the levy broke and my wife was trapped? And somebody else had said that they'd actually heard him even say, I'm going to fuck with that levee. That's what they testified to. I'm going to mess

with it and I'm going to have me a free weekend. Yeah. I mean, that's really bad. It is. It's bad. So was it not real? Well, so it's not necessarily that it wasn't real, but the prosecution never told the defense about those witnesses. Well, what? Yeah. So they were just bamboozled? Yes, they were completely bamboozled. Yeah, you can't do that.

You can't do that. And so at the time when they'd been called to testify, the defense had objected and the judge had actually pulled. They made the jury leave. They pulled the counsel into chambers and they talked through it a bunch. And he had determined something like, OK, you can't call them for direct examination or direct questioning. Can he call them or call? Whatever, Kristen. Anyway, I didn't write this down. So I'm trying to recall it from memory because I think it's fairly interesting.

Recall it or recall it. Anyway, so he determined that, yeah, this was a huge fuck up. So the prosecution's like, oh, we just learned of these witnesses, but today. And the judge is like, bullshit. And so they're like, well, we did just learn of one yesterday and the judge was like bullshit bullshit and so they were like well we did just learn of one yesterday and the other

like last month and so well is it today or is it right exactly okay and then we weren't exactly sure

what they were gonna say and so the defense was like well too fucking bad like you have to tell you have to give us a chance to depose them like this messes up

our whole case because they had planned to put Jimmy Scott on the stand and they felt like this totally like took the case in a different direction and made that it completely changes things and makes that not a good direction to go. And they had already told the jury that Jimmy Scott would tell them exactly. They look like scared liars.

Exactly. And so the judge determined that the prosecution couldn't call them for direct questioning but they could call them as rebuttal witnesses and so so yeah so then the case finishes he's convicted and so he he appeals based on prosecutorial misconduct because of that yeah and so the appeals court looks at it and they're like, yeah, the judge tried to handle it the best he could at the time. But the only proper handling of this would have been to declare a mistrial, which is what the defense had asked for at that time. And so they're like the judge did err in letting this trial go forward. And so they overturned his conviction. Good. In February of 1997, the Missouri Court of Appeals

sided with Jimmy Scott and threw out his conviction due to prosecutorial misconduct. And then he was retried in 1998. Trial was the same. Witnesses were the same. This time they called another soil expert, another scientist who was like, this levy was going to fail. This guy, no matter what this guy did, like it wasn't enough to cause this level of catastrophe. This was the 12th levy to fail in a line of 13 that failed. Uh-huh. Yeah, and we think that he's responsible. He's responsible for this? No, he's not.

I mean, isn't the truth probably that one single person couldn't be responsible for this? Yes! This is a huge structural flaw, right? Yes. Oh, this is so frustrating so again a jury deliberated they deliberated for three hours this time before again convicting him this poor guy of intentionally causing a catastrophe. On July 6th of 1998,

his life sentence was reinstated. Unreal. Yeah. 28 years later, 28 years since he was arrested. He spent 28 years in prison for this? So far. Brandy, what?

Jimmy Scott remains imprisoned. No! For this crime to this day. You are fucking kidding me. Nope. you are fucking kidding me nope since the second trial jimmy scott has done some interviews he's talked to some press and he says that he believes that he was the scapegoat of course he was he was targeted because of his past by police and they just wanted someone to blame.

Just someone. And so there's some, I read a couple articles where they talk about like the psychology of this. You're talking about an entire city that is suffering major damage. The psychological thing is that people want a face to blame. It's not enough to say this was an act of God. This was a horrible accident. This is, you know, whatever. You want a person

to blame for it. Mm-hmm. And they found it in Jimmy Scott. I cannot believe. Mm-hmm. The soil scientist that they had testify

at his second trial, his name's Dr. David Hammer, he said, the way the prosecution wants you to believe this happened physically could not happen. It would have been suicide for Jimmy Scott. Right. He would not have survived it. But not only did he survive, he thrived because he looked too good when he was interviewed.

Mm-hmm. He thrived because he looked too good when he was interviewed. A former Time journalist, Adam Pittuk, P-I-T-U-K, he has written a book about this. It's called Damned to Eternity. And he believes that Jimmy Scott is innocent. Yeah. I believe Jimmy Scott is innocent. God.

I'm not saying Jimmy Scott was a good guy. Sure. Obviously, he has a burglary conviction. He has arson convictions. But he didn't do this. He didn't do this. Wow. To this day, Jimmy Scott remains the only person convicted of intentionally causing a catastrophe in Missouri. Why did that law get put on the books?

I have no idea. I don't know. Huh. So, yeah, Jimmy Scott to this to date has served 28 years in prison for this. He becomes eligible for parole next year. Oh, my God. I am stunned, shocked as shit that this did not end with. And then he got out.

Nope. Of his conviction, Jimmy Scott has said, I've done a lot of dumb stuff in my life, stuff I wish I could take back. I do. But what's done can't be undone. I am the reason I'm sitting here today, but I'm not doing my time for the West Quincy levy. Wow. That's not why I'm here. I'm doing my time for the West Quincy levy. Wow. That's not why I'm here. I'm doing my time for my past.

Wow. That's. Yeah. I mean, that's right. Yeah. He said he does remain hopeful that he'll get out of prison. I cannot believe he is still in prison. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Even if, even if you believed that he did intentionally cause that levee to break. 28 years in prison for it? Yeah. I mean, when no one was even injured. Right. Now, there's a lot of property damage.

A ton of property damage. Absolutely. You would have to get something. But wow. Yeah. That's terrible. Yeah. And that's the story of a catastrophe.

Is he still married? I don't know. I think if I were the wife, I'd have a tough time with that. Like, oh, hilarious joke. Goodbye. I will say that everybody says like, oh, I'm going to, you know, a couple people came forward and were like, oh, yeah, you're joking with everybody. You're telling everybody that he's going to cause the levee to break just so he can get some time from his wife. He did drive like 500 miles the very next day to pick up his wife so that they could be together.

He didn't even spend the time away from his wife. Yeah, so that just says that it was a dumb joke. It was a dumb joke. Wow. Yeah. Good grief. Yeah. Does that blow your mind?

It terrifies me. Yes! It really terrifies me. Yes! I think we need, like, some juror education. I mean, also, though, the prosecutor should have never gone to trial with that. No. That's ridiculous.

No. You didn't have enough. No. And it sounds like the jury needs to be a hell of a lot more skeptical. I know. I read a bunch of comments on some threads that I read about this case, and people were like, I don't know. Like, you guys are giving this guy a lot more skeptical. I know. I read a bunch of comments on some threads that I read about this case. And people were like, I don't know, like you guys are giving this guy a lot of credit. He was an arsonist and he did burglary and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, okay, yeah, but he served

his time for those things. And like, those things don't have anything to do with this other thing. And there's no proof that he did this. See, and I'm not quite as open-minded as that. I'm kind of like, hey, yeah, you like, you like destruction. You like that kind of this. See, and I'm not quite as open-minded as that. I'm kind of like, hey, yeah, you like destruction. You like that kind of stuff. All right, I'm going to look at you. Yeah. But, I mean, okay, go ahead and look. Right.

But if there's nothing there, then we got to let it go. Yeah. If all these other levees broke. Yeah. If the scientists are telling us this is physically impossible, then we got to let it go. Yeah. That's my official opinion. Great.

I think it's pretty clear. I can't be more clear than that. I do love that fucking pillowcase it's wonderful okay did you feel like that case was a Kristen case yes oh my gosh did I feel like it come on

practically had my name on it okay did I sound like Alvin okay okay alright this is terrible Okay. Did I sound like Alvin? Okay. All right. This is terrible. I hate this man.

I mean, you already told us he's a rapist. But he's preppy, so don't get mad. You know how, like— It's like the Zack Morris of rapists? You know how when someone's wearing khakis, you can't get too mad at them? That's what you'll find here. Okay. Shoutouts to...

Are you okay? This is going to be terrible. Great. All right. The Fugitive Son by Janet Conant for Vanity Fair. The Fugitive Son, because again, was the title of the Vanity Fair confidential episode, because they don't get too creative with these titles, I guess. Also, a shit ton of great reporting from The New York Times, most of it done by Monty Williams.

Hmm. Hmm. Is that like a Mon-T middle initial Williams or like Monty, like as in Monty Hall? No one is named Mon. I feel like you did a weird pause between the Mon and the T. So I was just clarifying. Okay. It's Monty.

Okay. Great. Monty. And you know what? Maybe there was a weird pause because I am feeling super self-conscious. Why? About names that have an E at the end. Why?

Someone reached out to me. Okay. You know, a million years ago, like on episode like three or some shit, I covered Lamonte McIntyre. Yeah. Episode 10. Thank you. And you know how I called him Lamonte McIntyre? Yeah.

Because there's an E at the end of Lamonte. Yeah. His name's fucking Lamont. The E is silent. It is? Yes. I feel like I've always heard him called Lamont MacIntyre. Okay.

This person reached out to me. I was like, well, that can't possibly be true. Yeah. Because I don't know. I feel like it's a local case. I'm like, no, I've known. I know how to pronounce his man's name. I feel like it's a local case.

I'm like, no, I've known. I know how to pronounce this man's name. Well, it's either that I'm right and literally everyone who's ever done a news story is wrong. But so now I'm super paranoid about my print sources. Oh, yeah. Anyway. Okay. Monty.

Or Mont. What if it is Mont? God damn it. Anyway. Okay. Monty. Or Mont. What if it is Mont? God damn it. Anyway. Felt like a big dumb asshole. Well, don't worry. You don't even have an asshole anymore. Just dumb.

Picture it. It's 1986 and we're in Darien, Connecticut. Darien is nice. That's where I put my dairy in. Oh, God. That was so stupid. And Patty, don't you dare cut it. Don't you dare.

People need to know. You done or you got more dairy jokes? That's all I got right now. Darian is super... Got it creamed. Butter not making more. God! Just getting cheesier by the second. Jesus.

We good? Yeah. Okay, well, since Brandy's all dried up. I'd say I'm about half and half. Oh, my God. Oh, no. Are we going to run out of dairy products? I'm looking at you right now, and I can just see that you're like, how do I work yogurt into this?

Yo, play with yourself. All right. Darien is super small. It's very nice. And everyone there is super rich. Okay, great. They get free dairy from Brandy. It's very white, very waspy, and very khaki.

The women wear headbands, Brandy. What kind of headbands? Okay, you know what? This is your problem. If I tell you East Coast very rich headbands, you've got to picture the, like, you know, the rich lady headbands from, like, the years of yesteryear. The little padded headband thing? Yeah, absolutely. Come on.

Get with it. Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Think Kennedy, you know? Yeah. You should know that both the 1975 and 2004 versions of the movie The Stepford Wives were partially filmed in Darien. Excellent. I've only seen the Nicole Kidman one.

I never saw the original. I could have skipped the Nicole Kidman one too. I was just about to ask. You know, I had more questions about your Darien. I also wanted to talk about whether you'd seen the Nicole Kidman film.

I have. Okay, great. It's got Christopher Walken in it. And I think Matthew Broderick. Do we think that Christopher Walken knows? That he was in it? No. About the Natalie Woods thing.

Like, does he know too much and we're all just like letting that just happen? Yeah, probably. Yeah. Yeah. How has he not been canceled? Well, wait, he didn't do it, right?

Well, no, but wasn't he on the boat? Yeah, he was on the boat. Wasn't he like, I mean, long-term friends with Robert? Yeah, I think so. All right. Well, I'm Yeah, I think so. All right.

Well, I'm just saying I'm suspicious. Okay. I'll drop Christopher walking a line. Let him know. You're on to it. 60 years later. She's not saying you did anything. She's just saying you know some stuff.

You know some stuff. And she thinks that maybe you shouldn't have been allowed to be in the Stepford Wives in 2004. That'll really affect him, I think. I think it will. Yeah. So anyway, a lot of people who live there commute to Manhattan for work or to Stanford, which is just a few minutes away. Stam-ford? With an M?

Yeah. Stamford,? Yeah. With an M? Stam-ford, Connecticut. Mm-hmm. Not Stanford. Yeah. You've never heard of Stanford, have you? Yes, I have. Oh, have you? From the office.

Okay. It's where Jim gets sent to. It's where he gets the nickname Big Tuna. Okay, very good. Darian was where Adrian back called home. And on Friday night, February 10th, 1986, Adrian went out with some of her friends to watch their high school basketball game. It was typical kid stuff. Adrian was a sophomore.

In fact, she'd just turned 16 five days earlier. So she and her friends went to the game, and afterward they went to a party. As the night wore on, Adrienne got a little worried. She had an 1130 curfew and her friends weren't ready to leave the party. She ended up calling her dad and telling him that she'd be late and he was like, Adrienne! Oh my god. I bet you she hears that all the time, don't you think? Yeah, I'm sure. It would be terrible. Yeah. That's why you can't be named Stella. Oh, yeah.

Stella! Yeah. Yeah, everyone thinks they're being so unique. Right. And it's the millionth time. How many times do you do that to the neighbor's dog? Norm used to do it literally every time we saw her, and I was like, please stop. Stop!

It's not even that amusing the first time, you know? So anyway, she called him, let him know she'd be late. And, you know, luckily, as she was trying to figure out how she'd get home, this guy, Alex Kelly, offered her a ride. out how she'd get home, this guy, Alex Kelly, offered her a ride. But Alex wasn't just some guy. Adrian and Alex knew each other. They went to school together. Alex was a senior, and Adrian's older sister was in his class. Plus, they were neighbors. So he offered her a ride home, and she accepted. And the ride home was awkward. She tried to make conversation with him but he basically like stared straight ahead and answered her questions with one word answers pretty soon they got close to adrian's house and alex asked her do you want to go to my house and get stoned

and adrian was like no no thank you the way, you're passing my house. That's my house. Yeah. But Alex kept driving. He drove to a dead-end road near her house. He parked the car, which happened to be his girlfriend's family's car. What? Yep.

And before Adrian could even register what was going on, he was on top of her. He said, you're going to make love to me or I'm going to kill you. He said make love to me? Yes. Oh, boy. Adrian tried to fight back, but as soon as she pushed him away, his hands went to her throat and he began choking her. Oh, my gosh. She tried to find the door handle, tried to unlock the car door,

but it was pitch black, and he was on top of her. And Adrienne was in no position to fight Alex Kelly. She was barely 16, and he was an undefeated wrestler. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, he was the co-captain of their high school's wrestling team. He was a star football player. He was the co-captain of their high school's wrestling team. He was a star football player.

Are you giving us like pre-Brock Turner, Brock Turner? I think it's worse. Oh my gosh. Okay. Adrian screamed, but Alex threatened her. He said he'd hurt her even more if she kept screaming. And he raped her. Oh, my gosh. was distraught. She held it together as best she could, and she got home and sobbed. She had been a virgin,

and this whole thing, she said, had happened like literally a stone's throw from her house. Oh, my gosh. So now she was violated and bleeding and just in so much physical and emotional pain. Adrienne went up to her room and fell to the floor. Her older sister, Kristen, overheard her crying and came in. And I think it must have been pretty obvious what had happened. Adrienne's shirt was on.

I think it was either inside out or backwards. Her socks were in her pocket. Her bra was in her pocket. Adrienne told her sister that Alex Kelly had raped her, and later they told their parents. Adrienne's family tried to convince her to go to the hospital, but she was terrified. She said, what if he's watching? What if he sees me? She was terrified that he would make good on his promises to rape her again and murder her. Of course she was. The next day, she did go to the hospital and they went to the police. And one of the detectives who talked to Adrienne that day was interviewed for the Vanity Fair piece.

And she said that Adrienne was just very fragile. And she said that Adrienne was just very fragile. You know, she was so young and so naive and had been raised in this very conservative home. And this just – I mean it was just awful as it would be for anybody. It seems that in that moment, Adrienne didn't want to press charges, which is understandable. I mean this is her neighbor. She's terrified. And four days later, a 17-year-old girl from Stanford named Hillary Buchanan was at a party and she went outside to smoke a cigarette. That might not be her maiden name.

Well, anyway, I guess it doesn't matter. Thank you for clarifying. Patty, please cut that. That doesn't need to be said. Is that her maiden name? Well, anyway, I guess it doesn't matter. Thank you for clarifying. Patty, please cut that. That doesn't need to be said. Is that her maiden name? Shut up. Shut up. What is her maiden name? You know what? I've got it here, but then I'm thinking, does it really

matter? No, it doesn't fucking matter. No, okay. Patty, cut all of this. You don't cut this whole episode. She went outside to smoke a cigarette and Alex Kelly was out there and he offered to let her sit in his car while she smoked because it was cold outside. She accepted and got in the car. And as soon as she did, he took off without her permission. He just starts driving. Wow.

That night he drove to an empty parking lot behind the Weeburn Country Club. He jumped on her. He threatened her. He pushed her in the backseat and he raped her and sodomized her. Oh, my gosh. And afterward he took her back to the party. And she immediately told a friend that she'd been raped. She went to the police and she later identified Alex Kelly in a photo lineup.

It didn't take long for Adrian to find out that Alex had attacked another girl and she blamed herself. She said it felt like someone had punched her in the throat. She said she felt that if she'd pressed charges at the police station, none of this would have happened to Hillary. Wow. It's terrible. Absolutely. But, and hear me out, did this really happen?

Yes. Brandi, Alex Kelly was on the honor roll. All right? And he was on the football team. Wait. And he was an undefeated wrestler. Hold on. What?

Did he wear khakis? Yes. He was very good looking. He looked like he'd stepped out of a Ralph Lauren ad. So obviously. He couldn't have possibly done out of a Ralph Lauren ad. So obviously. He couldn't have possibly done this. Couldn't have done it, right? Jesus.

He looked like a Ken doll, Brandi. No one's ever heard of a rapey Ken doll. Plus, he had a very good looking girlfriend. So obviously he didn't rape anybody. That's the way that works. That's not how it works. That's the way it works. Okay.

But the police had the nerve to arrest Alex Kelly. Oh, they did? It's like they didn't even care how good looking he was. In fact, they arrested him while he was on his way to the Fairfield Interscholastic Athletic Conference in Wilton. He was supposed to wrestle that day. Oh. And he was very concerned with having his schedule interrupted. He asked the investigators repeatedly whether he'd be able to make it back to his wrestling

match. But what'd they say? No, see, these investigators were total dicks. They seemed way more concerned about rape. He was charged with two counts of first-degree sexual assault, unlawful restraint, threatening and possession of marijuana, and violating probation. What was he on probation for? What? He was on probation.

That's a small matter. What was he on probation for? What? He was on probation. That's a small matter. What was he on probation for? Excuse me, ma'am. We all make mistakes. What did Mr. Preppy do? Alex's parents, Joe and Melanie Kelly, rushed to their son's rescue. We don't get to know what he's on probation for. You will in a minute, but I am offended that you haven't really

absorbed the fact that he was a star athlete, okay? Okay, I don't give a fuck. And on this, no, on this podcast, we care a lot about athletics. Okay. Very little about rape, okay? We just let that shit slide.

That's right. Joe and Melanie were well likedliked in Darien. Joe had a plumbing business that he'd evidently built from the ground up, but I have 12,000 question marks. Melanie came from serious money, and they married when they were in their 20s. So I'm kind of like, OK, how much did the in-laws help with this business? Yeah. Right? I mean, come on.

Yeah. Also, she mean, come on. Also, she ran a travel agency, which is an old-timey profession you never really hear about anymore. The family had a beautiful house and they owned a bunch of local real estate that was valued in the millions. They had three boys and, yeah, their boys were pretty wild. But you know what they say, boys will be boys. That's my favorite saying. Okay. So is it okay that he raped her because he's a boy?

No. You're not even listening. Because he's a very athletic boy. You know how it is. They were good kids, practically perfect in every way. Stop me if you've heard this, but Alex was good looking and a good student and an athlete. He was perfect. Except, whoops, in his junior year of high school, he stole about $100,000 worth of property from his neighbors. Oh, is that what he was on probation for?

Yeah, you know how you're like, oopsies. Accidentally steal $100,000 in property? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then you and your friends take that property into Manhattan and you pawn it all and you buy cocaine with it, allegedly. Wow. Okay, I was about to say, this sounds like a Zach Morris, like, get rich quick scheme,

but that really took a turn there with the buy-in of the Coke. I don't think I ever once saw Zach Morris do a line of Coke. He wouldn't even take that joint from Jimmy Woods' name at that party. Wow. You have, like, stored all of these 90s shows into your memory. My big memory of the hardcore stuff was those caffeine pills that Jesse got hooked on. That's right.

I think those are just as bad as cocaine. Just say nope to dope. Don't you remember after they kicked Jimmy out of the... I'm not remembering this Jimmy episode. You don't remember this? Okay, Jimmy was like this hot TV star and he came to the school to film an anti-drug commercial.

And then he invited the kids to a party at the house he was renting over. Like a black fly in my Chardonnay. And then they were passing a joint around. The death row party. And Zach was like, no thanks. Two minutes too late. Stop it. No thanks, man.

And then they left the party. And then the next day they were like, we don't think Jimmy should be in the ad anymore. Yeah. And so. Yeah, I agree. They were like, friends don't let friends do drugs. And they shot their. But what if it's just pot?

They shot their own say no to drugs commercial. And I think Screech got out of a locker in it. And you didn't do any drugs for all of the 90s. And Zach Morris got Jimmy's jacket and he was so disappointed in him that he took it off and threw it in the trash.

I do remember this episode! And it was one of those trash cans that goes whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh. Yeah. No, I remember this episode. Yeah. Sorry. You had to jog the old memory a bit. Hmm.

Boy. A lot of lessons. That's right. A lot of lessons. Okay. Okay. So they got caught, and Alex was charged with nine counts of burglary.

And the judge said, quote, if I were a victim in this case, I would have wanted to see this punk put in jail for 50 years, which that seems extreme to me. Yeah. Alex was sentenced to 35 months,

but his parents hired a fancy pants lawyer, so he got fancy pants justice, which meant that Alex spent 68 days in a juvenile rehab facility. That's about the same. And now, like a year later, he was in trouble again.

Oopsies. Boys will be boys. Well, hey, he wasn't guilty, you dumb hoe. Oh, okay. Yeah. My mistake. Alex's parents hired Michael Mickey Sherman to defend their son. Why would you ever go by Mickey?

I will never know. I think she really liked that song. He really liked that song. Hey, Mickey, you're so fine. You're so fine. Oh, you know what? Hey, Mickey. This is an older gentleman.

Maybe it did seem fun for a while. Yeah. My great-grandfather on my stepmom's side. He went by Mickey. I believe his name was Merlin. Really? Did I just make that up? How would I know that if you made it up?

What are you Googling right now? Well, he was a famous basketball player in his day. He was? Yeah. Tell us all about him. Yeah. His name was Merlin Mickey Marty. His name was Merlin.

And Mickey was either his middle name or a nickname. No, it was a nickname. It was a nickname. Very hateful. You know, your problem is you didn't say no to dope. Wow. Like, did he play professionally? He's in the Hall of Fame for the Duhawks.

The Duhawks? Yeah, you know, the Loris College Duhawks. Was he a rapist? Class of – no! I'm just saying we don't care because he's an athlete. Duhawks? Yeah, you know, the Loras College Duhawks? Was he a rapist? Class of—no! I'm just saying, we don't care because he's an athlete, so this is a safe space for any athletic rapist. He was named to the 1947-1948 First Team Converse All-American Team. He averaged 20.5 points per game and led the Duhawks to a 23 and 8 season. You just fell

asleep. Oh, I'm sorry. What? He returned to the courts for the 45-46 season after missing four and a half seasons while on military service during World War II. What a lazy bitch. I mean, go to work, right? How dare

you! Yeah, his name was Merlin and he went by Mickey. How tall was he? I don't know. Not that tall. He was probably like 5'7".

I think he was probably I mean, I don't know. I promise you he was 5'9". He was 6'2". Really? Yeah. Okay.

All right. Are we allowed to move on or do you have more relatives from your past? We would like to Google and discuss. So they hired Mickey Sherman, Michael Mickey Sherman. Alex maintained that he was innocent. These girls, both of them, were lying. And incredibly, a lot of people sided with Alex. They just found it really hard to believe that Alex would do something like this.

Fuck off. Also, were these girls really victims? They got to have sex with Alex Kelly. Ew, gross. That's disgusting. What were they doing out so late? Had they been drinking? Oh, so this is a they were asking for it sort of thing.

Asking for it? Or, Brandy, was this just a classic case of bitches be crazy? You know, where, like, you have sex with a dude. There were willing participants and then they wanted to buy rape after. It doesn't happen. Yeah, you know how that is. Oh, my gosh. Alex was, of course, released on bond.

And the school asked Alex's parents to keep him home. But Alex was adamant that he was innocent. So he went back to school, which, of course, was horribly traumatizing for Adrian and her family. At the time, a lot of people didn't take the accusations against Alex Kelly very seriously. There was a lot of talk about date rape, which was a super fun term that we used in the 80s and 90s to describe rapes that we didn't think were all that bad. Just rape. It's all rape. I fucking hate that.

Yeah. But do you remember that term was everywhere. Yeah. And it was like, well, you know, it's date rape. There's a whole Sublime song about it. Oh, that's a fucking awful song. That's the point of the song. Yeah, I hate it. I feel like men just don't need to even bother with that.

So yeah, this was maybe just, you know, a misunderstanding, you know. But Assistant State's Attorney Bruce Hudduck didn't misunderstand anything. He knew that Alex Kelly was a certified douchebag rapist. Yeah. Which sounds like he rapes douchebags, which is disgusting. Oh, I see what you're saying. Also, those aren't Bruce's exact words. Oh, OK.

But I'm sure. Of the same vein. Yeah. So he upgraded the two counts of unlawful restraint to two counts of first degree kidnapping. Oh, shit. Yeah. In the meantime, Alex was removed from school and given his diploma early. At some point, Alex was offered a plea deal. He was facing more than 100 years in prison.

And the plea deal meant that he'd only get 20 years in prison. But Alex rejected the deal. He also rejected the way he was being treated, okay? People were treating him like he was a rapist. Yeah, weird. But again, it doesn't seem like everyone was super mad at him. Maybe just like a couple people. His lawyer claimed that Alex was having a really tough time.

Was he? Yeah, because the police kept like hounding him, like following him and like not wanting him to rape anybody. Because he raped two women. Well, one of them was 16. How old was the other one? 17. Okay. Yeah, he raped two women. Well, one of them was 16. How old was the other one? 17. Okay. Yeah, he raped two girls.

So Alex got permission from the court to move to Colorado and get a job there until the trial started. He did? Yes. Okay, so hear me out. The prosecution was actually on board with this. They were like, yeah, it would probably be better for the victims if you weren't hanging around here. But at the same time, it's like, well, now he's not being monitored. Yeah, he's going to be raping people in Colorado.

Right. Was Colorado like, no thanks? I don't know that Colorado knew what was coming for him. Yeah. So that fall, Alex moved to Leadville, Colorado, which is close to Aspen. He got a job at a restaurant and he did a ton of skiing and snowboarding and he got accepted into three colleges in Colorado. Great for him. Yeah. It's wonderful. His family. Do you want to talk about the trees in Aspen? I could talk about the trees in Aspen. No, you couldn't.

Yes, I could. I love Aspens. My favorite tree. Great. In the fall, they turn golden and they quake in the wind. They call them quaking Aspens. It's called queef. It's not.

Or shivering Aspens. They shiver. I can tell when I'm being faked out. No, I love aspens. I'm sure you do. You know, they grow and grow. They all share the same root system. So they're all like a whole grove of aspens is really just like one living organism.

So what you're telling me is they're all in a little bit of a neighborhood of trees. They are. I do love aspens, okay? I fucking love aspens. Yes, I love them too. We were driving back from Lee's Summit on Sunday, and I was like, there was like this, we're sitting like getting on the highway,

and there was like this really wooded area by the road, and I was like, those are aspens right there. I'm like pointing it out to David, and he's like, very good, great. Yeah. Those are. It hurts, doesn't it, when someone doesn't appreciate trees the way they should. You rethinking the marriage, are you?

No. So his family came out to visit him and they stayed at their condo in Vail because, of course, and their lawyer, Mickey, came out to visit them to discuss the upcoming trial. The discussion didn't go great. Mickey had obviously been advocating for the rapes to be separated into two trials. In fact, he'd hired a market research firm to establish that most people would be more likely to find Alex guilty if both of these rape cases were tried together. But the judge overruled the defense's motion. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah.

I mean I would say that a juror would probably be – I mean yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Two women making the same claims. Yeah. Yeah. I think it'd be a much. What's the word I'm looking for?

I don't know. You've said like no words. I don't know. Let's move on. Sorry. Cut that, Patty. Bacon bits. Is that what you're trying to say?

Bacon bits is exactly what I was thinking. It'd be a lot more bacon bits. Patty. Bits? Is that what you were trying to say? Bacon bits is exactly what I was looking for. It would be a lot more bacon bits. It would be a more compelling argument with two victims at the same trial. Well, yeah, of course. Yes. That's the word I was looking for. Compelling was the word I was looking for. But I think – I think I do kind of agree you need to try these separately just because I think each thing needs to stand on its own. These are two separate crimes. Two separate crimes, yeah.

Although they did happen very close together. All right. I'll be persuaded either way. The entire Kelly family was pissed. This wasn't fair. Alex didn't stand a chance. And on Sunday, February 15th, 1987, the family vacation came to an end. Joe and Melanie flew home, and witnesses said that Melanie looked very emotional

as she said goodbye to her son that day in the airport. What'd they do? They sneak him out of the country or something? What? He's gonna go on the run? Brandy, no. Alex was going to see them later that day. No! He had a separate ticket back to Connecticut. Kathmandu, he's leaving. He's going to Kathmandu. I don't know, it was the first place that came to mind. You are really stuck on it, though.

No, he was going to fly out later that evening to Connecticut. No, he wasn't. He never made that flight. They bought the ticket. They also bought him a secret other ticket and he flew to Nicaragua. Interesting. That wouldn't make it a second with that white skin and that Central American sun. You think he'd be sunburned to death?

Just fries up immediately. He's like a vampire. He's like, I should have taken the plea deal. Yeah, so on February 18th, the jury selection was supposed to begin for Alex Kelly's trial. But Alex didn't show up for court because he was on the run. He was getting a terrible sunburn in Nicaragua. In Nicaragua. Joe and Melanie had no idea where he was.

They didn't have a clue. There was a massive search for Alex. The FBI got involved and America's Most Wanted did a segment on the case. The governor of Connecticut offered a $20,000 reward for information leading to Alex's arrest. I know. It didn't work, though. leading to Alex's arrest. I know.

It didn't work, though. Instead, a bounty hunter just, like, followed Alex's lawyer around, hoping he'd lead him to his client. And instead, Mickey, who sounds like a bit of a smartass, began introducing the bounty hunter to everyone he ran into. So the FBI was looking for Alex. Interpol was looking for Alex. Joe and Melanie were like, you know, checking under the couch cushion, squinting real hard at the horizon like, oh, my gosh.

Yeah, we're trying to help find him. We're looking everywhere, here, there, and everywhere. Oh, gosh, looking so hard. And in the meantime, Adrian and Hillary were fucking terrified. Of course they were. He could be anywhere. They were worried he'd come and attack them again just. Of course they were. He could be anywhere. They were worried he'd come and attack them again, just like he said he would. Adrian said, he told me not to tell. I told everyone.

Months passed. Then years. The women tried to move on with their lives, but it was hard and it was frustrating because there was no way that Alex Kelly's location was truly unknown. He had to be getting help from someone. His fucking parents. Yeah, it's a big mystery, isn't it? Yeah, his rich ass parents. Eight years passed.

Shut up. Finally, in July of 1994, the FBI raided the Kellys' home. Not a moment too soon. No kidding. And Lord Almighty, guess what they found? They found receipts and records showing that Joe and Melanie had been financially supporting Alex this entire time. They found letters from Alex. They even found pictures of European vacations they'd taken with Alex.

Oh my gosh! This dude had literally been vacationing in Europe the whole time. The whole time? The whole time! He'd been skiing, parasailing, scuba diving, rock climbing, living his best fucking life for eight years holy shit yeah did he try nicaragua out first and there he was like i'm never gonna survive he didn't i want to say he went to 15 countries nicaragua was not one of them okay

pretty disappointed if he'd gone he would have immediately been sunburned to death, as you pointed out. They also found a letter that Melanie hadn't mailed yet. It was to a woman in Sweden. Turns out that was Alex's new girlfriend, and he lived with her. So the FBI called Sweden, and they were like, quick, arrest that man. But by the time they got there, he was gone. They called all of Sweden. I'm sorry.

Do I have to be more specific? They called Friedrich Jansson. Friedrich was eating herring at the time. Of course he was. Or what is it? Salty licorice? Is that what they like? God bless him.

Salted licorice is the worst thing that has ever happened to my mouth. And I've tried popcorn salad one time. That's right. That's the worst thing that's ever happened to your mouth. You don't know. I don't do the disgusting things you do. Okay. Brandy's been with me since before it was cool.

Oh, my God. Patty, we might have to bleep that because it was disgusting. It was disgusting. Because Brandy's disgusting because she does that to strangers. Gross. She finds them outside of gas stations. Stop it. Okay, I will stop.

Yeah, so they called up all of Sweden and all of Sweden went knock, knock and knock it on Alex's door. And oh, my gosh, he was gone. Wonder who could have tipped him off. Certainly not his parents. Yeah. Eventually, Alex did surrender. Definitely not because his passport was about to expire or because authorities were closing in on him. That's not why.

OK, he surrendered because he was ready to face the music, Randy. By the way, he surrendered in Switzerland, which allowed him to use some loopholes in Switzerland's extradition treaty with the U.S. So, you know, even though he'd been on the fucking run for eight years, he got a few of his charges dropped before he returned to the United States. So cool. If you're wondering if you should be a rich white dude, you should definitely be a rich white dude. By this point, Alex Kelly. Well, this is a loud ass sweater. I apologize.

You got too many buttons. So many buttons. It's so comfy, though. It's really cute. Thank you. It looks very cozy. It is. We're suffering through a real cold snap here, folks.

Stop touching. You just really caressed your titties. What? Stop it. Don't act like you didn't just do that. Oh, my gosh. Everyone, you know what you just heard? You just heard like a sexy mirage where he's like seeing what she wants to see.

I've just been sitting here not rubbing my titties. By this point, Alex Kelly had a new defense attorney. It was Thomas Puccio, who – it's P-U-C-C-I-O. Puccio. Puccio. Puccio. Poo-ch-io. Poo-ch-io. Poo-ch-io. Poo-ch-io. Anyway, what was this about me mispronouncing names?

He's a big time New York litigator with a terrible comb over that is not fooling anyone. Like literally the comb over doesn't even reach the other side of his hair. Doesn't even cover the whole. Just stop, right? Yeah. Give it up. What do you think that's about? You're at that level, okay?

You've got tons of money, and yet you have a terrible comb over. Isn't that that like no one loves you? No one's willing to tell you the truth about yourself? Or maybe. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe. You're a hairstylist. You've got to have a theory.

I don't. I don't have a theory. Do you have anyone come to you with a comb over? No. Really? No. I have no clients that have a comb over. I'm not scared.

I'd tell them to just cut it off. Hmm. The way you said that sounded like you were scared. I'm not scared. I'm not scared. I'd tell them. No, you should. I mean.

Yeah. You're fooling anybody. It looks terrible. It does look terrible. Yeah. My other favorite thing to do is people who, okay, there's this like people that have like real bad cowlicks have this thought that they have to leave all that hair really long and then it just sits like a fucking like plant over the top of their head.

Oh, yeah? And like my favorite thing to do is to tell people that they don't have to do that and they can just cut it short and it won't stick up either. Hmm. I'm trying to picture what people are doing. So they just like grow it out. It's like a regular haircut, right? But then they've got this super long chunk in the back.

Chunk in the back, yes. That's to cover their bumping. Just sitting on top of everything. All right. It sounds attractive to me. It's not. Okay. So, yeah, we've got comb over boy.

And then don't worry. Alex's parents were not charged with anything. Seriously? Yeah. I hate it. Harboring a fugitive. I mean, I guess they weren't harboring him. Aiding a fugitive.

Yeah, they were financially supporting him lying to the police. Yeah, obstruction of financially supporting him lying to the police. Yeah. Obstruction of justice. Man. The prosecutor said that he was worried that jurors would feel sympathy for Melanie and Joe and feel like they would do the same thing for their kid. Helping their kid.

I hate this. Yeah. That's how I feel about that. And here's the thing. That was Kristen's butthole. I've been working with it. I think that was pretty good. I mean, you've definitely been working with it. I've talked about all the –

Gross! You're the one who's doing it, Brandy. Patty, we might have to bleep that too. Yeah, so here's the thing. I think, yeah, maybe some people would feel some degree of sympathy, but that doesn't mean you don't get charged with shit. Yeah, no. No. But I think the prosecutor had a pretty good read on the town.

People in town seemed to feel a lot of sympathy for the Kelly family and still not much for the victims. Wow. You know, sometimes I wonder, like, at this point, the victims had not been named yet. And I don't know. I wonder if it's easier to talk shit when there's not a name attached. Probably. But even then. I mean we still have sexual assault victims like sexual assault survivors all the time are treated like shit all

right well boy it's a crap shoot any either way so you know alex is back in the united states he was taken back to court in handcuffs and in a fun moment someone shouted pervert adam and he turned around to look. He answered. You're right. Yes. Did someone request a pervert? Anyway, he pled not guilty to three counts of first-degree sexual assault and two counts of first-degree kidnapping. And at this hearing, the prosecutor announced that there were new allegations against Alex Kelly.

Really? A year earlier, a woman contacted the police to say that when she was 13, Alex Kelly had raped her in the Bahamas in August of 1986 when he was free on bail. Oh, my gosh. She had pictures of herself with Alex and his passport showed that he'd been in the Bahamas when the attack took place. He obviously wasn't supposed to leave the country. Yeah. But who cares, right? Right.

As it turned out, while he was on the run, three other women came forward to say that he'd also raped them. Wow. He didn't face charges for any of these alleged rapes. After this hearing, Alex's defense attorney was defiant. He said that the accusers, quote, are not victims because there was no crime. Okay. The judge set bail at $1 million,

and of course Joe and Melanie paid his bond. Right. He shouldn't have had bail at all. Yeah. You wouldn't think so. He was on the run for eight years. Right. Maybe it's just time to lock him up, right?

Yeah. No, he was allowed to get out, and he was ironically in the custody of his parents because his parents could be trusted. Yeah, no. Also no. So he wore an ankle monitor and chilled at his mommy and daddy's house. of his parents because, you know, his parents could be trusted. Yeah, no. Also, no. So he wore an ankle monitor and chilled at his mommy and daddy's house. By the way, the family celebrated Alex's return. You know, they put up a bunch of balloons.

They called it balloons, balloons, balloons. It's not. And Alex attended his 10-year high school reunion over Thanksgiving weekend. And people were evidently happy to see him. Can you fucking imagine? In a weird, sad twist, the defense attorney's only child died a few weeks after Alex came back to the United States. Ernie's only child died a few weeks after Alex came back to the United States. He was 16 and he was receiving a driving lesson and he hit the gas when he meant to hit the brakes and he died. Oh, my gosh.

I know. It's terrible. It's absolutely terrible. A lot of people expected Thomas to step away from the case, but he stayed on. Wow. He filed motion. I thought his name was Mickey. No.

They changed lawyers. Sorry. It's been like eight million years since this all went down. You got to change lawyers at some point. Don't you remember Poochio? No, that's right. Sorry. The Pooch, I call him.

The Pooch, yeah. He filed motions for a change of venue, separation of the rape cases, a new judge, reduced charges. He wanted to suppress all the evidence that the FBI seized in the raid because he didn't think there had been enough probable cause to search the Kelly family's house. Oh, Lord. He did get some victories. The two rape cases were separated into two trials. So, yeah, in addition to like the eight-year vacation, you know, don't worry. Things are working out great for Alex.

Coming up, Alex. Also, fun news. Alex got engaged to his Swedish girlfriend. So that's exciting, isn't it? We love an engagement story. But then, oops, she was like, yikes, and fucked off back to Sweden. Don't worry, though. He found love again, OK? Oh, OK.

This time he rekindled. He's pretty worried about him. Yeah. He rekindled his relationship with his high school sweetheart, Amy Molitor. Fun fact, it was actually her family's Jeep that he'd been using when he attacked Adrian. Cool. Yeah, Adrian's blood was in it. Excellent.

What the fuck? Oh, my gosh. I really struggle with this shit. Yeah. Yeah. What do you want to say kristin i want to say who the fuck stands by someone like this yeah and i And I hate that that's how I feel because I'm sure it can't be good

to be this dude's girlfriend. Mm-hmm. But at the same time, I'm like, goddamn. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Best case scenario, he had consensual sex with someone

in your family's Jeep. Yeah. Best case scenario. Mm-hmm. I want to say I'm not mad at her, but I'm a little like what I guess I am. I don't know. It's complicated. I hate it all.

Complicated. So Alex was ready for his first trial. For it, he showed up every day in court wearing a blue blazer and khaki pants, looking like a little schoolboy who just stepped off a yacht. At trial, the defense's argument was that Adrian was a liar. She'd been at a party. She'd consumed beer. She'd had consensual sex with Alex Kelly, regretted it, and called it rape. By the way, here's something fun.

At some point, the defense attorney, Thomas Puccio, publicly criticized Adrian's family by saying that they seemed to enjoy coming to court in designer clothing. Oh, okay. He called them, quote, very unvictim victims who loved stepping into court totally coiffed and dressed to kill. What the fuck does that even mean? Exactly.

What is it? So they're supposed to come in wearing what? Here's the thing. Adrian is extraordinarily beautiful. So is her entire family. They are strikingly beautiful people. What does that have to do with anything? Nothing.

It has nothing to do with anything. And yet they're wealthy people. So, yeah, they're going to show up in designer clothes. Yep. Just like probably everybody else in that courtroom. Just like this guy's client. Right. Right.

Also, oops, we've got another little tangent. I know you hate these, so I'll just go real fast. A few days into this first trial, Alex got drunk and then he sped past a police car. And when the police car chased after him, he tried to get away and he lost control of the car and totaled it. And in the passenger seat was his girlfriend, Amy, and she was injured. And Alex left her there bleeding and ran through the woods back to his parents' house. And when the police went to his house, they were like, Alex, you know, we know what you did. And he was like, what? A crash?

I have no idea what you're talking about. I've been here the whole night. So yada, yada, yada. He was charged with speeding, evading responsibility in a serious accident, and interfering with an officer. And, of course, he pled not guilty because this was all a witch hunt. Okay. Oh, my God. I fucking hate him. Holy shit. Back, my God. I fucking hate him. Holy shit.

Back to the trial. A witness for the prosecution named Thomas Kelly. No relation to Alex Kelly. They were former friends. Now Thomas thought that Alex was a big douche. And he hated that they had the same last name. Even though it's kind of a cool last name. I kind of like it.

He testified that he'd talked to Alex on the morning after the alleged rape. And Thomas asked Alex if he'd taken Adrian home the night before and if they'd fooled around. And he said that Alex told him that he hadn't driven her home. He said that he and Adrian walked out of the party together, but that some of her friends drove up in a station wagon and they drove her home. Interesting. Yeah. Interesting because his whole case now is like, oh, yeah, we had consensual sex in the Jeep. So why would you lie to your friend the next day about that?

Members of Adrian's family testified about how distraught she'd been that night. There was medical testimony. And of course, Adrian took the stand to tell the jury what happened. So, OK, keep in mind, this was like 10 years after the attack. And during cross-examination, Thomas Puccio asked Adrian how Alex managed to lower the backseat of the Jeep. And she said that he'd take what? Well, I don't fucking know, sir. That's the thing. It's like you're talking about such a traumatic event.

And you're being asked to recall every single fucking detail. And there's been a period of, like, years. Yeah. detail and there's been a period of like years yeah and the reason there's been this long waiting period is because of the defendant but she's going to be held responsible if she doesn't remember every goddamn thing oh my gosh she said that he'd taken one hand off of her throat to lower the back of the seat. Yeah. That was slightly different than what she'd originally told the police.

She originally told police that he'd taken both hands off her throat and held her in place with his weight while he lowered the seat. Well, it's obvious what we've got here, folks. What's that? We've got a liar. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously. This is the most important detail.

Mm-hmm. Mm. Obviously. This is the most important detail. Yeah. So the defense took the jury to a parking garage to show them that it would have been impossible to lower the seat of that Jeep with only one hand. OK, great. And that seemed to really impact the jury. You're kidding me. I wish I wasn't. After three days of deliberation, the jury delivered a note to the judge that they were unable to reach a unanimous verdict. Holy shit. The judge announced a mistrial. Adrian felt that she'd failed. Her biggest fear had just come true.

Someone on that jury didn't believe her. The prosecutor decided to try Alex again. But wow, the defense put up a hell of a fight. At some point, they got the judge to throw out the kidnapping charges. He said that the prosecution hadn't met the requirements for kidnapping, which included abduction and restraint. But prosecutor Bruce Hudduck said that he he learned a lot from the first trial. Basically, Thomas Puccio is a giant douchebag, and Bruce learned that he needed to be much more aggressive with jury selection. So for this trial, he sought a jury of more family-oriented people. I don't know exactly what that means. Is it just, do you have kids?

No, a whole panel of grandmas. He also got more aggressive in his cross-examination of witnesses. Adrienne's mom and sister testified about how distraught she'd been that night. They talked about how she was shaking and sobbing. Her sister said that Adrienne's neck and chest were bright red. She said, quote, there were white marks that looked like a handprint. She testified that Adrian's shirt was on inside out and her socks were in her front pocket and her bra was in her back pocket. Her underwear was bloody and so were her legs. Thomas Kelly, Alex's former friend, testified again, and this time the cross-examination was just pure gold. The defense evidently couldn't really pick apart what he was actually saying.

So instead, Thomas Puccio grilled him about why he hadn't declared $2,500 in income from his job on his tax return. What? Yeah. He's a liar. Get it? He's a liar. Okay. This guy lies about everything from $2,500 on his paycheck or on his tax return.

Yeah. Give me a break. To this story that Alex told him 12 years ago. Okay, great. This went on and on, and finally the defense attorney goes, have you smoked marijuana today? What? And Thomas said no. What?

It's like the last place I thought that was going. And then he said, did you smoke marijuana the day you testified in the first trial? And Thomas was like, no. And then the defense asked if someone from the state's attorney's office had suggested he wear a suit to this trial since he hadn't worn a suit to the first trial. And Thomas said, you looked so good in yours, I thought I'd wear one. The perfect response. Adrian testified again, and this time her testimony matched what she'd originally told the police about how Alex had used both hands to lower the seat of the Jeep.

told the police about how Alex had used both hands to lower the seat of the Jeep. On cross-examination, the defense asked Adrienne if she'd been flirting with Alex at the party that night, which what if she fucking has? Who fucking cares if she was? But she said, absolutely not. My focus was on getting home and getting a ride home, not on your defendant. and getting a ride home, not on your defendant. Alex's girlfriend, Amy, took the stand, and now she and Alex were engaged. Great. Yay. Then came the really infuriating part.

There had been blood on Adrian's underwear that night. There had been blood in the Jeep. And you wouldn't think that the defense could use that to their advantage. But boy, did they try. How? I'm not sure what that first noise I made was. Okay, okay. Let your imagination run wild, Brady.

I have no idea. Yeah, it's a real thinker, isn't it? All right, well. The defense called Kevin Ballard, a chemist from Baylor University, who said he'd done tests on the blood stains from Adrian's underwear, and those tests revealed that she'd smoked marijuana on the night that she claimed to have been raped. Oh, okay. So? She's high as a kite. She doesn't know left from right, up from down.

She knows consent from not consent. The defense also called Dr. Kurt Dabowski, a toxicologist from Oklahoma, who had reviewed the tests that Kevin performed, and he concluded that Adrienne had ingested marijuana 17 to 106 minutes before she bled on her underwear. OK. Great. Good for her. Do you think they can even test for that? That sounds ridiculous. Sounds like some Theranos bullshit.

It sounds like absolute bullshit. Yes. The jury deliberated for about nine hours, and they found him guilty. Oh, good. Alex was stunned. He turned to the jury and said, I'm not guilty. I'm not guilty. I didn't do this.

Why are you doing this to me? As the jurors were taken away, a lawyer who'd been representing Adrian clapped, and Alex Kelly's dad yelled obscenities at him and threatened him. Oh my gosh. It's a super lovely family. At the sentencing, Adrian asked the judge to impose the maximum sentence of 20 years. She said, I have been living in constant fear since I was 16. Yeah. Yeah. He said that his perception of that night was just different than Adrian's. He said he never meant to hurt her. He said, quote, I wish we could stop destroying ourselves and start to help each other. The teenagers of many years ago have grown up.

What? The prosecutor told the judge, he asks you for a break. He asks you for a chance. He asks you for things he didn't give Adrian on the night of February 10th, 1986. Mm-hmm. Alex was sentenced to 16 years. Adrian felt so much relief over the jury's verdict. Looking back, she said, Hillary had done the

hard part that night when she was raped in 1986, and now it was sort of my turn, and I finally succeeded in doing my part. Wow. Pretty soon it was time for the next trial, but the next trial never came. This time Alex Kelly pled no contest. He was sentenced to 10 years, but it would run concurrently with the 16-year sentence from the earlier trial. I know. I hate it. Yeah, he pled no contest so he could still maintain his innocence but he did plead guilty for failure of appear – failure to appear. Oh, OK.

Close. Yeah, so that was good of him. Didn't make a fucking difference. No! Also, the prosecutors agreed to dismiss charges from the 1996 car accident, you know, the one where he left his fiancée bleeding in a totaled car.

Sweet guy. Yeah. I... I don't know. A lot of these articles and stuff are complimentary of the prosecutor and it does sound like he went i mean he i don't know maybe i'm maybe i'm being too harsh looking at it from today's lens but wow i mean didn't do shit to these parents. Yeah, I can't believe the parents weren't charged with anything. I'm sorry.

That is some rich white bullshit. Absolutely. I hate that. Anyway, Alex spent years appealing his case because he was totally not guilty, but the appeals weren't successful. In 2005, Alex was up for parole. And wow, the footage of this parole hearing was revealing. Really? He tried to squeeze some tears out as he told the parole board that what he'd done was so heinous, so wrong.

He said he'd done what he did because of selfishness, aggression, hyper-competitiveness, and self-centeredness. Hyper-competitiveness? You know how it is. Like you with the taboo buzzer. Yeah. You just go around raping people. I'm so competitive I rape people. Yeah.

But he'd changed. Okay. He said, I've finally come to realize that the world is bigger than me. Uh-huh. I've finally come to realize that the world is bigger than me. But then one of the parole board members was like, it's really interesting that you didn't enroll in the sex offender program until like right before you got a chance to be paroled. And he was like, oh, you can see when I sign up for that. Oh, shit.

A member of the parole board said, for many years upon your incarceration, you denied this offense. And Alex goes, well, I denied it to other people, but I always accepted it to myself. Inside. Yeah. Inside, I knew. Uh-huh. And I felt really bad. Yeah.

Like deep. Really deep inside. Down inside. Adrian and Hillary sat together at the parole hearing. They held hands and they addressed the parole board together. Hillary said, I was a child. This absolutely brutal, surreal experience has followed me for more than half of my life. I do not believe that being in prison for less time than he was vacationing in Europe is sufficient enough punishment.

Yeah, Hillary. After Hillary and Adrian spoke, the board denied Alex parole. And here's how that went. I don't know the name of the parole board members. I'm just going to say parole. Yeah. Parole. the name of the parole board members. I'm just going to say parole. Yeah. Parole. Mr. Kelly,

by unanimous vote, the parole board has voted to deny your application for parole and set no new hearing date. Alex. So you're saying you're saying there's no more parole hearings? Parole. No more parole consideration. There will be no new hearing date set. Alex, I would like to say something real fast. Parole. Mr. Kelly, this hearing is concluded. Thank you. Alex, why did we come here? What? This hearing was a waste of time. Oh, my gosh. And then they said, Mr. Kelly, this hearing has been concluded. It was amazing, though, to see the mask slip off. You're like, I'm just so, oh. Yeah. I know I'm not supposed to look over at them, but I just want them to know that I'm sorry. And then, this was a waste of time.

Oh, because you didn't get your way. It was a waste of time. Two years later, in 2007, Alex Kelly was released from prison. He had to register as a sex offender. And a lot of people have a tough time finding work after they're incarcerated. But don't worry. Not Alex Kelly. Alex did fine.

The year after he got out of prison, he began working for Connecticut Parachutists. What? Yeah. And he rose through the ranks of the business. He became the club's president and the drop zone manager, which is the highest paid position in the company. But bad news. In 2015, he was asked to resign after punching a skydiver who touched his equipment and also groping a male skydiver's genitals and also threatening to beat up a pilot when they got into an argument.

And also he made really gross sexual remarks to people and he screamed at them. OK, but don't worry, Brandy. He's still doing OK. And in fact, the latest article I was able to find on him said that he now owns his own business. It's called Green Mountain Skydiving and it's in Bennington, Vermont. He also owns Berks Mountain Skydiving and it's in Bennington, Vermont. He also owns Berkshire Skydiving

and I sure hope that his parachute opens every single time. Adrian and Hillary chose to identify themselves. It didn't sound like that's what you really hope, Kristen. Motherfucker. So Adrian and Hillary chose to identify themselves publicly as rape survivors.

Hillary hasn't spoken publicly about the case in several years, which, you know, totally her right. Adrian continues to. She says she hopes that if less women are ashamed, then maybe they'll be more likely to come forward, and she hopes she can be a part of that. She also said something really beautiful about the importance of forgiving yourself, so I want to end with a quote from her. She said, It took me at least 15, 20 years to forgive myself.

Forgive myself for getting in the car. Forgive myself for not reporting it right away. Forgive myself for blaming myself for having this happen to me. The one thing I finally forgave myself for was Hillary. And that was really when I felt like I was over this, when I forgave myself for what happened to her. when I forgave myself for what happened to her. And that's the story of the preppy rapist and his enabling parents and the courageous teenage girls who fought back. That was infuriating.

Yeah. Yeah. That's a bad dude. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not the least bit surprised to hear all of the reasons that he lost his job or was asked to resign.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he learned no lessons. He never learned any lessons. No. He was never held accountable for shit. Mm-mm. And neither were his parents, evidently. No!

Yeah, so why not do whatever the fuck you want? Yeah. Ooh. Well, I told you that was awful. It was. You knew I wasn't lying. You know what I think

we should do now? Take some questions from the Discord! Ooh, yes. To get into our Discord, all you have to do is join our Patreon at the $5 level or higher. Is that your stomach? It was not my stomach. Was that your stomach?

That was yours. It was not! Bullshit. Blame your stomach noises on me. I've got your butthole, not your stomach. And you are loving it. turns out it is my stomach yeah are you okay over there? I'm fine

this is what someone says right before they shit themselves you just explode everywhere I'm totally fine everything's fine NatLikesCats asks Brandy what's the best heat protectant for hair prone to greasiness and getting weighted down okay I have one that sounds like it would be counterintuitive to that but it's actually really good so kenra shine spray is a super fine aerosol mist um and it is a heat

protecting up to like 425 degrees also if you're using your iron that hot turn it the fuck down you don't need to bake cookies with your iron. Oh, a little sass. There's no reason it needs to be that hot. But yeah, it's a super fine mist, so it doesn't get heavy. It doesn't weigh down, but it gives you really good heat protection without really giving any finish to the hair. You just get like a little bit of extra shine. Kenra Shine Spray. Okay.

I like when you give hair advice. Oh, thanks. Shine spray. Okay. I like when you give hair advice. Oh, thanks. Oh, Shelby says, not a question, but I just want Kristen to know that I think of her every time I walk through my neighborhood in northwest Florida because it has both palm trees and regular trees. Hell yeah. Yeah, think of me and appreciate those trees.

Unlike Brandy who only appreciates aspens evidently, even though aspens are lovely. Frozen Like a Grape says, I was listening to an episode from 2018 and Kristen told us about an amazing breakfast she had right before she ran the Kansas City Marathon. I remember it well as a bowl of mashed potatoes with zucchini and eggs and hot sauce. A huge zucchini. Huge zucchini, which caused her to visit a porta potty three times. That plus the poop in the bag story. How many crazy poop stories you got, girl? You know what? I feel judged.

Here's the thing. I feel like I've got a normal amount. I just don't have a lot of shame about keeping them to myself. I think that is the same amount of poop stories as everybody else. Just no shame in sharing a poop story. You, on the other hand, I bet you've got some great poop stories, but we'll never know. Oh, she's doing her thing of like, oh, no, I can't think of a thing. Yeah, we know.

We know how you're going to play this, Brandy. Uh-huh. I can't think of any poop stories. Have I even ever pooped? Yeah. OK. I have to tell them this because we're for sure going to cut the earlier part. But everybody, as we were going through the questions to try to figure out which ones to answer, Brandy's stomach erupted. It is making some noises, but it feels fine.

And she kept trying to blame my stomach. I really didn't think it was my stomach. And I was like, I know the call is not coming from inside my house. So yeah, she's the kind of person that she's going to shit her pants. And you're going to be like, wow, what was that sound? What was that smell? And she'll be like, I have no idea. I think it's you.

I don't think these are a poo brewing noises. What do you think's brewing? Nothing. Brandy. It doesn't – it's not doing a – Brandy, this kind of denial is like what landed me on the side of the road pooping into a Bed Bath & Beyond bag. It's a dangerous game you're playing, the denial game. Luckily, you're in my home and we have not one but two toilets. That's right.

I won't grant you access to either of them, though, because I like a good story. Oh, no. Ooh. Ooh. of them though because I like a good story oh no oh okay Mimi's Krusty Muffin wants to know Kristen if you had to order Brandy her last meal what would you order I would shake an entire table oh shoot what would I order for you oh gosh this is so tough okay What would I order for you? Hmm. Oh, gosh. This is so tough. OK.

OK. So here's what I'm debating between. It's like do I go for something I know you love that is probably like your favorite or because it's your last meal, should it be more special? So like if I'm thinking more casual, I would probably do like pepperoni pizza. Yeah. Gosh, you love a good cookie, but you're so specific about the cookies, you know, that kind of thing. Or, I mean, if it's more fancy, you do like good steak. I do. You like some mashed potatoes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Maybe a little mac. You like some mashed potatoes. Mm-hmm.

Maybe a little mac and cheese. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It'd be tough. What would you prefer? I think I'd go steak and potatoes. Yeah, because, you know, it's fancy before I die. After you've killed all those people,

I assume. Yeah. Or, you know, catastrophize the levy. That's right. As one does. Yeah. People are always doing that. I hate it when they do it. Oh, my gosh.

The ghost of Richard M. Balls says you were interested in the LGTC cookbook idea. How about an LGTC album of you two doing covers of your favorite songs? But you're only humming them and everyone has to guess what song it is. Okay. We learned on last month's Zoom call that Kristen is not a good hummer. I am great. You were just all wrong.

What was I? Oh, oh, okay. You know, I'm going to hum it right now and you all tell me. Okay. Okay. You tell me what this song is. Mm-hmm. Hmm.

Hmm. Ha ha ha! Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Anyway, that was obviously, what's it called? It's called Heya. Yeah.

And you know what? Everyone in their car was like, oh, it called? It's called Heya. Yeah. And you know what? Everyone in their car was like, oh, she's having Heya. Heya. No one got it. Everyone got it. Ooh. Okay, I'm interested in this. ClarkAdventures94 says, Brandy, what is the unspoken rule about headphones in the salon if you're getting a time-consuming service done?

I'm going to be getting my hair lightened soon and I'm so socially anxious about this. I'd like to have them to watch TikTok or listen to a podcast, but I don't know how to go about asking help. Okay, so as a stylist, I wouldn't care at all. So I put AirPods in when I get my lashes done. And so when I go in, I just ask the stylist who's doing my lashes. I say, hey, do you mind if I put just an AirPod in so that I can listen to a podcast while you do this? And she always tells me, no, that's totally fine. But I would just do the same thing with a stylist. Like sit down and like after you have your consultation and everything, just say, hey, do you mind if I just put an AirPod in so I can listen listen to something while you're working away there and i think that yeah and they'll say you son of a bitch

they'll be like absolutely of course whatever you want to be comfortable i um wait wait no what there's more you just remember to take it out before you get shampooed get shampooed. Well, yeah. You might not think about it. Okay. Anyway, I just thought that was a stupid thing for me to tell you, but I thought it was a helpful. It was a helpful.

Mama mia. No, what was I going to? Oh, yeah. The son of a bitch thing. What? I think it's funny just as someone with anxiety to think about like. Think about like saying something really polite and then being like, fuck no. Yeah, because like your brain is always lying to you about like, well, you know, they'll probably get really offended.

Yeah. And, you know, so I'll say this to them and they'll say, your mom never loved you. So just know that that's a possibility. That's not a possibility. The stylist about putting in your headphones. Oh, Game Show Aficionado says Brandy and Kristen, tell us about Brandy's bachelorette party. OK, we promise to come back to this later on and discuss the cake. Okay, everyone. The dick cake saga.

So, you know, we had the bachelorette party. Leading up to it, you know, I was like, okay, picking out the food, getting the decorations all right, picking out lingerie for our lovely Never Nude, all the stuff. And I wanted a penis cake. Yes. As one does. The finest penis cake. In all the land.

Yes, not just any penis cake would do. So I found a local person, like very local, who had an adult section of her bakery website. And I saw a penis cake that really caught my eye. It was a giant dong with what appeared to be a woman's hand wrapped around the peen. And on one ball it said to have and on the other one it said to hold. So hilarious. I loved it. So I reached out to this woman.

Mm-hmm. So hilarious. Yeah. I loved it. So I reached out to this woman. Mm-hmm. And she told me about, well, first of all, I was a little shy. Because as we've all learned when— You can't talk about a dick to anyone directly.

Right. Only you. Only me. Only me. And it's fine if we have microphones, but, like, not directly. So she's, like, on her website. She has, like, very normal things. Like, okay, tell me what you'd like.

Only she makes you tell it, like, three different ways. I was like, I want the penis cake. And I didn't want to be like, it's the cock and balls, you know, blah, blah. So I was like, it's the top row in the adult section, you know, first one over, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So she responds and she lets me know that unfortunately she's booked solid for penis cakes that day. She didn't say penis cakes, but she was booked solid. Asked me if the next day would do.

I said, no, it would not. Unfortunately, what am I going to do sitting alone with a penis cake? A day late and a penis short. But by this point, you know, I'm getting desperate here. And so I asked her, you know, could you do a simpler version of the cake? Maybe we don't need the hand. Yeah, maybe we just need one ball. She said no.

She truly was all booked up. I was like, God damn it. So, you know, I decided, well, maybe I can make this penis cake. Sure. Why not? I found a YouTube video and I started watching and like this woman, I mean, she did great work. And I was kind of like, OK, OK, this is kind of difficult. But all right, I think I can do it.

But then she starts like we get further into it. She's cut this sheet cake into a cock and balls and she's like make sure you reserve some of the cake to make nice round balls yeah and then she gets out her fondant she's like you're going to use this to make veins and i was overwhelmed checked out yeah i turned off the video and you were turned on so yeah that fondant. So yeah, that fondant looked good. I want to eat it. Do I want to mount it? Who knows? So I started telling Norm about my woes. Yeah. And he was like, just buy just buy a penis cake mold. You know, like they've got those just do that. Yeah. I was like, I don't I first of all, I don't trust it. I know. I think the dick's going to be overcooked. The balls are going to be under.

And the other thing, much like the barefoot Contessa, I do not like having a kitchen implement that only does one thing. Oh, yeah. And like how often are we going to use a penis cake mold? Yeah. He said. Penis cake Thursdays. Yeah. He was like, I don't care what shape it's in. I'll eat a cake anytime.

So anyway, I decided that was not the way to go. A couple days later, I was with my family. Kyla and I went for a run. I was telling her all about my penis cake woes. And she goes, you're overthinking it. Just go to Costco, get a sheet cake, cut it into the shape of a penis and balls. And there you go. And I was like, you know what? Okay, that's not a bad idea. I could do that. Later, I was telling my mother about this plan and she was horrified and rude. She said, no, no.

Your artistic skills are very hit or miss. Which is rude because it's true. It's really true. So she starts talking down to me she's like just order one off of the internet and i'm like mom don't you think i've been looking into this like it's not quite as easy as you think it is yes Yes. Well, just, you know, she's acting like it's the easiest thing in the goddamn world to get a penis cake last minute. So then she tells me, well, worse comes to worse. Just get a sheet cake from Costco and buy a chocolate molded penis and just put it on top. I was like, where are you finding these chocolate penises acting like they're just falling from

the sky? So finally, she tells me she will take this on. She will take on this penis cake burden. Like, great. Great. You go ahead and do that, mom. Okay. Well, I did feel a little smug because I think she quickly found out that it's a little more difficult than she anticipated.

So Monday night we were recording the bonus episode and she texts me, call me when you have a chance. And I was like, okay, well, you know, Brandy's over here. We're recording the bonus episode. And she goes, text me as soon as you're done. I will be up all night. So we ended up talking. She's like, okay, I found this lady in Blue Springs. All right, here are the options, blah, blah, blah.

What flavor? You know what? Blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, Mom, honestly, I'm not going to be picky about this penis cake. Yeah. You know, and I don't think Brandy's super picky about cake flavors. Nope, love cake. So here we go.

So the lady evidently asked my mom, do you want cum coming out of the penis, you know, like icing? Yeah. Obviously not real gum. And my mom was like, oh, no. So this lady goes, okay, so you want a classy penis cake. Yeah. And my mom was like, well, it's classiest.

Classiest they can get. I gotta say. It was the classiest penis cake I've ever seen in my life. I mean, it was truly beautiful. It was beautiful. It was pink and white and gold. It was beautiful. Yeah.

So I told my mom what colors the decorations were going to be and the penis cake matched. It did match. It was a lovely day. It was delicious, too. Sure. No, it really was. I did mess with my mom, too. Sure. No, it really was. I did mess with my mom, though. Yeah.

My mom had taken over the penis cake drama. She, on Friday, so the party was on Saturday. On Friday, she texted me a picture of this cake. And I was like, oh, my God, it's beautiful. Yeah. Because, I mean, it is a beautiful cake. It really is a this cake. And I was like, oh my god, it's beautiful. Yeah. Because, I mean, it is a beautiful cake. It really is a beautiful cake. And my mom said, okay, well, you know, do you have any edits or

additions, you know, the baker needs to know? And I said, yeah, could you make the dick bigger? There was this long pause. And she texted back, for real? True question marks? I couldn't help myself. I'm surprised that you didn't just get like a sheet cake from Costco, put a bunch of dildos in it.

In it? Like out the top of it. Oh, I see. You know, like stuck in there like, you know, you used to get like a little mermaid cake with like little aerials and flounders and stuff stuck in it. Oh, I see. Stuck in there like, you know, you used to get like a little mermaid cake with like little aerials and flounders and stuff stuck in it. Oh, yeah. But see, again, where are you getting all these random dongs? I mean, don't you just, I think you

can order anything on the internet. Okay. Next week, I want a penis cake. You're about to learn some real lessons here, sweetheart. Okay. It was a beautiful cake. It was sweetheart. It was a beautiful cake. It was wonderful.

It was a beautiful party. Oh. I had the best time. I did, too. And also, in true Charere form, she insisted on paying for the cake. As her contribution as the mother of the maid of honor, which is not a thing, Charere. But it is. of the maid of honor, which is not a thing, Sharae Rae.

But it is. It's so my mom to be like, as we all know, the mother of the maid of honor purchases the penis cake. The penis cake is provided by the mother of the maid of honor traditionally. Yeah, so don't question my generosity. That's just what's happening. So thank you to Sheree Ray. Thank you, Sheree Ray. The hero we all needed.

Oh, my gosh. What would that party have been without penis cake, I ask you? It would have been nothing. A shell of a party. Also, I found a balloon. It was, of course, shaped like a penis. And Brandi sat with it in her lap. I don't know what you're talking about. It was a real good time. It was, of course, shaped like a penis. And Brandy sat with it in her lap. I don't know what you're talking about.

It was a real good time. It was wonderful. Chelsea wants to know, what's the cringiest way you've ever broken up with someone slash been broken up with? I just had a recovered memory of breaking up with a guy by telling him I was in love with my best friend who was gay and gave me permission to use him as an excuse. Oh, no. One time I was married for 11 years. Uh-huh. Are we counting this as a breakup?

No. I don't know. I did break up with a high school boyfriend through an email. That's pretty cringy. How long had you dated? Like a couple weeks. It was fine. No, that's okay.

I, on the other hand. The next day at school, he wouldn't look at me. Well, yeah. I mean, that's the consequences. Yes. How long did it take him to look at you again? It was a little while. Yeah.

It was very cold to me for quite some time. Did he respond to the email? He did not. Oh. Kind of left you hanging. Yeah. What did the email say? I don't remember, but I'm sure it was terrible.

Hmm. sure it was terrible. I have done the super cool thing where it's like, well, I don't want to hurt the person's feelings and I also want to break up with you. So I'm going to dip my toe in the water and take it back out. You had to do like three running starts at it? Oh, three is, I wish it had just been three. Yeah, I've done that. That's terrible.

If you're in that position, let me tell you, rip the band-aid off. Yeah. My God. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, one time I dumped a guy over the phone using a line that you had told me to use. What did I tell you to use? This was in the seventh grade.

Okay. And my seventh grade boyfriend had kissed another girl at the skate park. Oh, no. And you told me that I should confront him. I did? Yeah, and tell him. I mean, we were all over for a sleepover. Okay. And tell him. Wait, who was were all over for a sleepover. Okay.

And tell him. Wait, who was the boyfriend? Okay, all right, all right. And tell him, well, it's better to be the dumper than the dumpy, so I guess you just got dumped. So that's what I told him. That's great advice I gave you, Christian. I still remember when you said it and I was like, wow. She's really got this thing figured out.

Well, it's like I was so mad and so hurt, you know, because who could ever cheat on me? And you know what? It does feel better to be the dumper than the dumpy. So I guess you're dumped. I guess you're dumped. Rumor has it that guy is still a shell of a man to this day.

A shell of a man? Oh my goodness. Should we do some Supreme Court inductions? I want to still think about this for a while. Yes, we should do some Supreme Court inductions. How do you think that guy's doing these days? Yeah, I don't know. Probably fine.

You said that like you had some intel. No. Now your voice is even higher. I know. I don't know why. So I remember seeing something on Facebook, but I don't remember being like particularly drama filled. He has long hair these days. I mean, last time I saw a picture of him, which was probably ten years ago.

Well, come to Brandy for all the hot gas. Oh, shit, everyone. I... Breaking news! Everyone, we both shook our tits at the same damn time. So, pour one out for your favorite cookies. It's done. It's dead to us.

That's right. Can't even look at another cookie. No. False. I could eat so many cookies. We are now reading your names and your first celebrity crush. Ooh, Allison S. Joe Jonas.

Alicia Fox. JTT. Of course. Morgan Pilgrim. Johnny Depp because I loved the movie Crybaby so much. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Cassandra T.

Brendan Fraser. Amy. Alan Alda from MASH. All right, Amy. Brianna A. Jonathan Taylor Thomas. Another JTT. Emily Lewis.

Channing Tatum. Levi Stanley. Mariah Carey. They put in parentheses, not sure what I was thinking. Mariah Carey is quite beautiful. What? Yeah, I mean, I think that like, you know. Well, you don't get a crush on a celebrity for their personality.

Don't worry, Levi's not having to run off with her. Tess. Sean Biggerstaff played Oliver Wood in Harry Potter. I don't know. I don't know who that is. Do you know who that is? Of course you do. Yeah, I'm pretty sure Oliver Wood does the commentating at the Quidditch games.

That's a deep cut. I'm pretty sure. All right. I'm not positive. Okay. Jess Barrows. Lance Bass. Woo!

Hot tea! Megan G. Jonathan Taylor Thomas. My goodness. That's right. It was that bowl cut. It got us every time. Lindsay C.

Devon Sawa. Okay, so it's Devon. No, Devon Sawa. I have to tell. So that's Casper. Yeah. The movie Casper, right? We just showed Jack Casper for the first time like two weekends ago.

Jackson is nine. Even he, when he saw Casper in human form for the first time, he said, that's what Casper looks like. It's a big moment for us all. I was like, same. Same, Jackson. Autumn LaFrance. Shamar Moore. Yes, he's from Criminal Minds.

All right. See, I didn't... All right. All right. Okay. Calm down, Brandy and Autumn. Carissa Gilman. Jonathan Brandis.

Yeah. Okay, so he was in Ladybugs. You see that movie? No. No? Okay, great. Anyway. This is going to be so long because you're going to have to explain like half the people to me.

Wes Beardall. Kathy Ireland. Oh, yeah. She was one of the supermodels. I remember that she had a line at Kmart. Well, yeah. That's also how the supermodels. I remember that she had a line at Kmart. Well, yeah. That's also how I know her as well. Welcome to the Supreme Court.

Oh, my gosh, guys. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you, everyone, for all of your support. We appreciate it so much. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Patreon. Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen. And while you're at it, ways to support us, please find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Patreon. Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen. While you're at it, subscribe to The Gaming Historian.

I mean, if you're just out there subscribing to stuff, why not? Get on it. And then be sure to join. Wait, didn't that? No. I left out a thing. Then head over to Apple Podcasts. Leave us a five-star rating and review.

And then once you've done that, be sure to join us next week. When we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned! And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources

on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. I got my info from The Fugitive Son by Jeanette Conant for Vanity Fair, The Fugitive Son episode of Vanity Fair Confidential, and excellent reporting from The New York Times, most of it done by Monty Williams. This is really embarrassing because you told us all of that at the beginning of your story, and I was genuinely shocked when you went on the run. story and I was genuinely shocked when he went on the run.

You know what's wonderful? I could tell you hadn't registered it and I was like, thank God because I didn't mean to read that title out loud. Then I did it and I was like, I'm just going to have to pray she's not paying attention. I got

my info from an episode of Criminal, an article for Medium by Ash Gerberg, The New York Times, Huffington Post, ABC 17 News, and The Court Record. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go. Read their stuff.