Let's Go To Court! - 234: Back to Our Roots

Episode Date: November 2, 2022

This episode should feel like an old, familiar tune. Kristin starts us off with an old timey love triangle and Brandi covers a family annihilator…?  Robert Miller was a celebrated criminal defense attorney in Washington DC. He was buddies with Herbert Hoover and Franklin Roosevelt. He’d been the law partner of vice president Charles Curtis. He even had a nickname! It was: Judge, not guilty. He was pretty content. But his much younger wife, Marguerite, was not. Soon, she and her psychiatrist, Dr. John Lind began having an affair. It didn’t take Robert long to decide that he needed to get even.  Then Brandi tells us about David Hendricks, who was out of town on a business trip when his wife, Susan, and their three children, Rebekah, Grace and Benjamin were found dead in their home. David quickly emerged as the prime suspect. (Isn’t it always the father?) But there wasn’t much evidence tying him to the crime. The DA’s office moved forward, undeterred. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Deadly love triangle,” by Mara Bovsun for the New York Daily News “Woman testifies husband killed in self defense,” Associated Press, May 24, 1944 “Miller acquitted in killing after hearing wife assailed,” by Jack Doherty for the Daily News, June 1, 1944 “Lawyer’s erring wife says Lind extorted $5,000,” The Chicago Tribune, May 24, 1944 “Wife supports husband who killed rival,” Associated Press, May 24, 1944 “Slain doctor altered will for killer’s wife,” by George Dixon for the Daily News, February 29, 1944 “Prosecution calls 50 for Miller trial opening Monday,” The Evening Star, May 12, 1944 “Miller jury due to be completed by noon today,” The Evening Star, May 16, 1944 “A kiss but not a happy ending,” the Daily News, February 23, 1944 “Charges capital slayer planted gun,” by George Dixon for the Daily News, February 23, 1944 “Crime: One of the best,” Time Magazine, March 6, 1944 “Miller carried 2 guns before Lind slaying, prosecution charges,” by Norman A. Kahl for the Evening Star, May 16, 1944 “Miller denies he intended to kill Dr. Lind,” by Norman A. Kahl for the Evening Star, May 26, 1944 “Aged lawyer acquitted in murder case,” The Morning Herald, June 1, 1944 “The story of murder on Valentine’s 1944 in front of Woodies department store,” The House History Man In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Guilty or Innocent: The Hendricks Family Murders” by Gina Glaub, The Midwest Crime Files “1983 Bloomington quadruple-homicide remains unsolved” by Samira Kassem, The Argus “Reasonable Doubt: The Hendricks Family Murders by Fiona Guy, crimetraveller.org “David Hendricks” wikipedia.org “Questions and Answers” authorhendricks.com “People v. Hendricks” justia.com YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 35+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts! I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll be talking about an old-timey love triangle. And I'll be talking about a family annihilator.

Okay, just this start, I'm like, have we done this episode before? Right! Like, three times before? Yeah, we're really going for our roots. Yeah. As they say. Well, so I branched out last week, so I had to do like, you know, I had to come back home. Wow, you were really doing some tree analogies there.

That's right. Congratulations. We all know how much you hate trees. I like aspens. Yeah, that's it. You're what we call a tree bitch. A tree bitch! Brandy, how you doing? I'm doing great. I did

a whole bunch of wedding stuff this morning. Oh my gosh, everyone. Brandy's in a great mood. I am. Krista's not in a great mood. I'm not. So I should, okay, here's, this is the conundrum. Do I continue up at this level

just to kind of carry both of us, or do I come down to your level? You mean, do you put yourself into a bad mood? I don't want to do that. Well, no. You know, I think a therapist

could really help you work through why that was your go-to answer. How do I adjust myself to fit with the other person in the room?

No. Don't make yourself smaller, Brandy. Okay, I won't. I, um... Should I tell the people what I did today? Yeah.

It's exciting stuff. I picked up my wedding dress I did today? Yeah. It's exciting stuff. I picked up my wedding dress from the alterations place. It's done and perfect. It looks beautiful. And then David and I had our tasting at our venue to finalize our food menu. Oh, my gosh. All kinds of exciting stuff. Taco Bell is going to do such a good job.

Such an amazing job. Taco Bell is going to do such a good job. Such an amazing job. We joke, but man, if I had a Crunchwrap Supreme on your wedding day, it would be a wonderful time. How about a late night chili dog? Could I interest you in a late night chili dog? I'd like to suck on chili dogs outside the Tasty Freeze. We will be sucking on chili dogs. We will not be anywhere near Tasty Freeze.

Damn it. We will be sucking on chili dogs. Is it sucking down chili dogs? No, it's sucking on chili dogs. Is it sucking down chili dogs? No, it's sucking on chili dogs. Okay. My God. Outside the taste of freeze. Got his hands between her knees.

You know, that's how that song goes. Why am I in a bad mood? I don't know. Is it because I came late to lunch? You just had to have lunch with your husband. I enjoyed having lunch with my husband. You know what? I do know why I'm in a bad mood.

I can't tell it on the podcast. Okay, great. He's such a mystery. An enigma no here's why I think I'm in a bad mood why are you in a bad mood I realized that in one week

well by the time you hear this I'm going to be 37 so that feels old it's not it feels old you It's not. It feels old. You are a beautiful, vibrant, 37-year-old woman. Thank you.

And you're doing amazing things with your life. Look at our fucking podcast. Yeah, just look at our fucking podcast. Just look at our fucking podcast. I tried. I really did, but I just couldn't. I don't get them. You know what?

They laugh at their own jokes. Whatever. We think we're fucking funny. It's fine. We know we're funny. No, yeah, maybe I'm just having feelings about that.

Yeah, it's fine. You can have feelings about it. At 35, I was kind of excited for it. 30 felt like a big deal. 36 still felt kind of young, 37 feels like wow you think it's because it's like death is near creeping to 40 yeah it's 37 yeah i understand anyway should we do an ad yeah do you want to do a butt plug for our Patreon?

Brandi, quit calling it a butt plug. People are going to be disappointed, just like that guy. That guy who went to see our tits and was so upset. Yes. If you sign up for our Patreon, now there's lots of stuff there. None of our butts or tits, but there are are 40 bonus episodes you can get a sticker and our autographs most of the time when brandy does her job brandy it's good to hear you laughing about this now it's only taken what three weeks for you to finally forgiven myself i worry it's too soon

i'm not going too easy on myself, am I? I think you should have felt like absolute dog shit for a good six months. Also on our Patreon, you can get our episodes ad-free and a day early. What else can you get? Yeah, all that stuff and more. Yeah, yeah. They know the deal. Discord.

They know the drill. Do it. Get in there. Yeah. Yeah. They know the deal. Discord. They know the drill. Do it. Get in there. Get in there. Head on over to patreon.com slash lgtcpodcast today and sign up. Wow. You seem mad at them. But they're not the ones who sent out the cards that didn't have your signature on it.

How dare you. They didn't mess up. Are you cold? I'm a little cold. Yeah. Turn the fan off. My eyes are watering really bad. I'm having an allergy day.

Oh, yeah? Yeah. I thought you were just having a great day. I am having a great day, but my eyes are... Yeah, me too, motherfucker. Oh, water. I'm sorry. Sorry.

I'm being kind of a big baby. No, be a baby. Do whatever you want. No, it's, you know, being a baby is adorable when you're 36. But once you turn 37, it becomes just a hair too old. Yeah. Just a little too old. Oh. Just a little too old. Oh, man.

Okay. I guess should I get started on this? Yeah, tell us about an old-timey love triangle. I do feel like we've had it. I bet you anything. We have this exact title somewhere in the past. Yes, I think. Maybe. Yeah.

Don't worry. We've not covered either of these cases before. They're just kind of the things we like to cover. You know, people every now and then will say, hey, I think you've covered this before. No, that would never happen, we always say. But you know what happened to me this week? What? You started researching a case you've already done? Yeah. And I was like, now researching is maybe too strong a word. Yeah, but you started reading about it.

And I was like, this is funny. This is good. Oh my gosh, I kind of enjoy this. And then I got further and I was like, wait a minute, this sounds like something. No, no, no. I wasn't even that good. I was like,

this sounds like something Brandy has told me. No, it was me telling it to myself. I guess I tune myself out sometimes. Annie Hooters, shout outs to 12

million articles from the 1940s. Oh, wonderful. I basically spent like all GD day reading coverage of this case from newspapers.com. Excellent. So shout outs to the ghost of those reporters who wrote those

articles. They're not alive anymore. Yeah, they're ghosts. That's why I said shout outs to the ghosts of those reporters who wrote those articles. They're not alive anymore. Well, yeah, they're ghosts. That's why I said shout outs to the ghosts. Yeah, I was agreeing with you. Yeah, I don't know that you are. And I found out about this case from an article by Mara Boveson. Oh, from the New York Daily News. That's right.

So she wrote an article called Deadly Love Triangle. And she has done like the only overview of this case that I could find. Oh, shit. So this case was one of those weird ones that was like hugely famous in its day. Super sensational. Everybody couldn't stop talking about it. And then like interest died off completely as soon as. No one talked about it since. Yeah. Except for Mara.

Yeah. Thank you, Mara. Yeah. Thank you, Mara. And now you. That was my sexy sound. It was very sexy. I know. I might have to leave the room for a few minutes. And who could blame you?

Do you need to change your pencil looms? Oh, gross. Oh, it's gross now, huh? I thought you said a bidet was totally natural and normal, Kristen. It is natural and normal. But the idea of you getting all creamed up and having to wipe off with my bidet is just too far. You know? I try to keep just too far. You know? I try to keep this podcast classy.

All right? That's all I want to do. It's have some class. I've got a feeling Brandi's hit cream in her jeans. Disgusting. You brought it up. Let's not forget that this is all your fault. Who was too sexy?

You, Kristen. Everybody, it's so hard to be this hot. People don't like me and it's because I'm hot. Yeah. Yeah. You don't have like a lot of friends who are girls. Yeah. Yeah. You don't have like a lot of friends who are girls. Yeah, yeah. I have almost no female friends

because everyone is jealous of me. They say they don't like me because of my personality but we know that can't be true. Couldn't be true. Because I have a great personality. I have a brilliant personality. Personality.

Personality. Have you ever known anyone who really was like, the problem is I'm too hot? Yeah. Who? We'll bleep it. It's not even really somebody I know. It was like an acquaintance of an acquaintance. Oh, you're saying this wasn't a close personal friend?

It was like an acquaintance of an acquaintance. Oh, you're saying this wasn't a close personal friend? It was not. And I listened to her tell this story about why she doesn't have many friends who are women. And I was like, well, it's because you're a fucking bitch. Brandi, it sounds like you're just jealous. I was, obviously. Okay. Well, solve that mystery. Okay.

Blah, blah, blah. Here we go. Are you ready? I am. Is that a spooky voice? Yeah, it's almost Halloween. It is almost Halloween. Ooh.

Oh, shit. We should have done a Halloween episode. It'll be after Halloween by the time this comes out, though. Oh, damn. Who do we blame? The media. No one to blame but ourselves. The media.

Oh, okay. Also Biden. Oh, no. I dropped my tissue. That's also Biden's fault. You didn't move. Well, you can drop a tissue without like moving your

whole body you literally were sitting like still as a statue and you go oh no I dropped

my tissue next time I'll be sure to shake and wiggle it all about oh now we know

what you're after yeah I just wanted to see you shake them titties Kristen I know classic classic alright picture it Now we know what you're after. I just wanted to see you shake them titties, Kristen. I know. Classic, classic.

All right. Picture it. Twas the 1940s in Washington, D.C. Okay, I'm picturing it. What's happening here? Sorry. You know what I thought was going to happen? I was like, I will zoom in on this screen and scroll down in no time.

And it took more time than I thought it would. And Robert Miller was basically awesome. He was a criminal defense attorney and man, was he good. He'd been practicing law for more than 30 years and he averaged one trial per day. Oh. Which seems like too many. That's a lot. Yeah.

The dude was well-connected. He was the dean of the municipal court lawyers. He was friends with Herbert Hoover. He was friends with Franklin Roosevelt. And get this. He'd been the law partner of Vice President Charles Curtis. Who was Charles Curtis the vice president for? Herbert Hoover.

And you know what? I originally had a bunch of stuff in here making fun of him because I was like, who even gives a shit? Then I googled the fella. Get a load of this. To this day,

Charles Curtis is the highest ranking Native American to ever serve in the federal government yeah you knew this yeah I've seen a picture of him he he's in like full headdress in a picture with her it's amazing yeah I mean how do yeah until Kamala Harris he was the only vice president in all of American history to not be white. Yeah. Holy shit. Yeah. Anyway, so yeah, I started off making fun, and then I was like, would you get a load of this guy?

Get a load of this guy. He was born in Kansas. I knew that as well. I figured you did. Anyway, this is not about him, so I wish you'd shut up. This is about Robert Miller. And my burp. Does that taste like seafood?

How dare you? Well, you ate seafood for lunch. It wasn't a gross thing. It's a legitimate question. It sounded suggestive. No, I didn't think it was suggestive. Okay. I just thought, you know, at what age, ma'am, do you hear someone burp and not say, did it taste like such and such? Maybe 37, I guess.

I don't know. A few months. Okay. So far, it's not 36. I would like to remind you that you are 85. And I think you look great for 85. Thank you. As I said, Robert Miller was a very well-known criminal defense attorney.

In fact, in the legal world of Washington, D.C., he had a nickname. Big Dick Miller. Oh, what? What? I don't know. Why would it be Big Dick Miller. Oh, what? What? I don't know. Why would it be Big Dick Miller? Like he wasn't afraid of anyone. It seemed like he probably had a big dick.

He had at least big dick energy. Yeah, but that's not really a nickname. Big Dick Miller? Isn't his last name Miller? Yeah, but who do you call Big Dick and then their last name? Mrs. Dupree called her husband Big Dick. Stop it. She called him Big D because his name was Dick.

You are rude. That was our sixth grade teacher. Sixth grade teacher. We loved her very much. She was wonderful. She did call her husband Big D, and some of the immature kids would giggle because they thought of dicks. Yes. Not me.

I didn't giggle because they thought of dicks yes not me i didn't giggle once his nickname was judge not guilty that's not a nickname i agree i agree it's not not great but that's what they called him okay i like mine better i bet he would like it better, too. He's like, yeah, spread that around. Yeah, judge not guilty. That's not a nickname. It's like a catchphrase. A nickname is whatever people call you. Okay. Robert took the tough cases and he won.

He liked to brag that he got his clients off by having them get on the stand and just tell the truth. You know what I'm going to start calling you? Rectum? Damn near killed him. Based on what exactly? I don't know. Your propensity to bring up buttholes. Interesting that you're the one who brought it up today.

I do like that you know what i i think because it feels a little western i can picture myself boom smacking into a saloon you Yeah. You know? Yep. Slinging those doors wide saying, hey, it's me. Wrecked them. Damn near killed them. And then I get some whiskey. Do they do that thing where they like slide it down the bar to you? I would hope not because I don't, you know, I'm cheap. Like I don't want to lose drops.

Yeah. Yeah. Like who are you doing that for? You're supposed to catch it perfectly and not lose a drop. When have I ever caught anything perfectly? Chlamydia that one time. Oh, my God. I knew.

I knew. The second I said it, I was like, she's going to turn this sexual. You know, you're about to be a married woman i am so i suggest you class it up okay my bad yeah do you need advice on how to be more classy no thank you thank you for coming to the best in the biz. You thinking of some tips you could give me? I am. I am indeed. You know what? Here's a classy tip for you.

Okay. Never eat a banana in public. Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. Also, another classy tip just to keep the mystery alive in your relationship. Mm-hmm. Also, another classy tip just to keep the mystery alive in your relationship. Mm-hmm. When you put on your pajamas, first put on a dickie. So Kristen gave me lingerie as a gift at my bachelorette party.

And I held it up and I was like, this is less clothing than I've maybe ever worn. And so then we joked that I'd have to put a dickie on to feel comfortable. Okay. I, you joke, but like that was pretty full coverage. It is full coverage. I'm like, I like got the robe. Yeah, it's got like a little robe. It's very cute. It is very cute.

It's very cute. Yeah. I, um. What? I cute. It is very cute. It's very cute. Yeah. I, um. What? I tried it on over my clothing. Oh, my God, Brandy. What? What?

Who tries on lingerie over their clothing? Never. Oh, my God. Don't worry. I'll take my clothing off when I wear it officially. Okay, now hold on. Oh, my God. Don't worry. I'll take my clothing off when I wear it officially. Okay. Now hold on. Could you please set the scene?

And I'm sorry. To anyone who doesn't like tangents, this is obviously not the episode for you. It's not. Okay. Set the scene. So even when you try on clothes? Yes, I did it in the living room. Okay.

So I did it before I – like so I was – you know – I brought things home and I was like going through all this stuff. Like I had to go through my bag and like I got a couple gifts and so I was – so I laid it out. And then David was right there as well. And so I didn't want him to see the whole thing, but I was trying to decide if I still needed to keep the receipt. And so I just was like, oh, I'll just real quick. seat. And so I just was like, oh, I'll just real quick. And then that way it won't ruin the surprise either because then I won't have clothes on underneath it when I wear it for real. Did David approve?

He loved it. Boy, wait till he sees it without pants on underneath it. Gonna blow his damn mind. Anyway, I'm glad it worked out for you. You know, I do a lot of things that I don't really realize are that weird until I say them out loud. I could tell. I mean, that's the one where it's like,

are you kidding me? You tried your laundry right out over your clothes. I mean, yeah, no, that's just weird. I'm trying to give you an out there, but it's just very strange. You know, I had to stop myself from doing something weird. What? Well, okay, so, yeah, I got you that lingerie. And I was like, I think that's really cute.

And, of course, now I'm getting all these ads. Oh, so you wanted to buy the same set for yourself. Yeah, but then I was like, that'd be too weird. It'd be too weird. What if we showed up somewhere wearing it? No, I know we would never show up at the same time. But maybe one sexy night I'd, like, look up at the moon and be like, I wonder if Brandy's looking at the moon.

We'd start singing the song from Five O'Clock. In our matching somewhere out there. You're in your lingerie. So yeah, in conclusion, I

stopped myself. Because I thought that little rope thing was pretty cute. It's super cute. Do you like how I'm fishing for compliments on the gift that I got you? Thank you. It was an amazing gift. Shut up. No, it's wonderful. No. Oh, God. Such a douche.

Anyway, nickname was Judge Not Guilty. Okay, great. This is bad. Okay, here's part of the problem. What's the problem? I came in at the tail end of lunch, so usually we've gotten like our shitty chats out of the way. But I had to come late because of my wedding stuff I had to do. So we're just a mess today.

And apologies to people who hate tangents. This is not. Oh, my God. We're almost half an hour in. We're barely into the case. We're going to hate this. I'm not even past page one. Right.

All right. I won't say anything the rest of the episode. Good. That would be wonderful. Thank you. I will go off on my own tangents, but I expect you to not join in. Okay, so, you know, yeah, he had his clients get up on the stand and tell the truth. That was how he, you know, braggy braggy.

Yeah. Anyway, Robert didn't have a perfect reputation. At one point, he was was also huh, that's uh the dumb bitch who wrote this. Put in an extra word there. Tripped me up. Anyway

at one point he was put on trial for making up evidence to get his client out of a jam. But he was acquitted of that so don't worry about it. Robert was doing great in his professional his client out of a jam. Oh. But he was acquitted of that, so don't worry about it. Mm-hmm. Robert was doing great in his professional life,

but he was also doing great in his personal life. You see? He was fucking two bitches at the same time? No. Oh, okay. My God.

And they were wearing matching lingerie. And they were singing the Fiefel song. Which hadn't been included in that movie yet, so it was a weird time for everyone. Robert was in his 60s, and he was married to a buxom blonde named Marguerite. She was 25 years younger than him. It wasn't gross at all.

Rumor has it sometimes the couple would go on dates and he'd be like, cool, this is like dating my daughter. He didn't say that, but that's what everyone says when they date someone who's 25 years younger than them.

And you can try to deny it, but you know I'm right. It seems that Marguerite wasn't quite as happy as Robert was. And, okay, I'm sure her discontent was way more complicated than this, but I can only tell you what the old-timey sources told me. And they said that Marguerite was really sad for the following reason. Her husband was a rich, fancy-pants criminal defense attorney, but he insisted on living in a rundown shithole located at 1314 8th Street, Northwest, Washington, D.C. I know.

Why do they add the Northwest? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. I'm seeing a building. Mm-hmm. Oh, okay. Yeah.

It's like a row house. Yeah. See, I think it's cute. It's cute. Yeah. Marguerite did not. Okay. So Marguerite did not like the house.

She thought it was drab and it was Victorian, which was so last century. And on top of that, well, seriously, isn't it funny to look at this time period and be like, oh, yeah, that Victorian would be out at this point. Whereas now we're like, oh, cool, Victorian. Cool, Victorian. Mm-mm. This is like 80s. Yeah. What's an architectural thing that was big in the 80s?

You know what they loved to do in the 80s? What? Put sunroofs everywhere. Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think those are called skylights. Sunroof is in a car. Um, I don't see

why you had to seem so smug about it. That's the convertible top that you put on your house. On top of that, Marguerite thought the neighborhood was kind of dumpy. Oh. She desperately wanted to live in the fancy suburbs of Chevy Chase, Maryland. Hmm. I'm not familiar with...

I'm about to say something vulnerable. Okay. But my... I don't... Not familiar with... I... I'm about to say something vulnerable. Okay. I was like, Chevy Chase, Maryland, but, like, this is the 1940s, and, like, this is an old-timey source. You thought that this town was named after Chevy Chase? Sure did. Not the other way around? Sure did.

Okay. Sure did. That's fine. In my defense, I hadn't thought about it much. But when I did, I just assumed that, you know, he was like the local boy who went out and made good. And they were like, you know what? We're going to change our name. He was super famous in the 1940s.

You know what? Kiss my butthole. Okay. Which you definitely have in your pocket. Get it out of my pocket. So yeah, Marguerite wanted to move. But Robert didn't. So Marguerite needed to move, but Robert didn't. So Marguerite needed to just, you know, get over it.

Yeah. Get, get, get, get, get over it. Hey! But Marguerite was really bummed to the point that her friends recommended she go see a psychiatrist. And since Marguerite was a fancy lady, she didn't just go to any old psychiatrist. She went to the best in the biz. She went to Dr. John Lind. John Lind had gone to Georgetown

and George Washington Medical School and his fourth cousin was Abraham Lincoln's mom. So put that in your corncob pipe and smoke it. Wait, is he a snowman? Didn't old Abe have a corncob pipe and a button nose? Too hot to spit out a coal, if I remember correctly. Yeah, that seems right. He definitely had that hat.

He did. John Lynn. And when he put on his hat, he began to dance around. John Lind This episode is a mess. It is. John Lind was the senior medical officer at St. Elizabeth's Hospital, and he was very well respected. In fact, he actually spent a fair amount of time in court as an expert. How much time did he spend? He spent so much time.

No, I have no joke. He was an expert witness because of his expertise in insanity brandy so marguerite sought treatment from john and he helped her and helped her and did i mention that john was a widower um Oh, man. And he helped her and helped her. And did I mention that John had, like, a sexy little mustache? What kind of mustache? Like, just a sexy little one. Not like a Hitler one.

I know when I say little mustache, that's where I'm... More like a pencil mustache? Yeah, more pencil-y. But, you know, more like a marker, you know, because... Just a little thicker. A little thicker. Yeah, thank you for following me on that. A lesser woman wouldn't have.

Also, he wasn't nearly as old as Marguerite's old ass husband. So he helped her and he helped her. And he banged her. And yeah, he wasn't super worried about ethics. So pretty soon Marguerite and John began having an affair. I have suddenly become very worried that her name's not Marguerite. Why? I don't know.

Hang on. Hang on. Please pause. Please pause. I'm going to check a source real quick. No, it's Marguerite. All right. I had all the faith in you.

Yeah, everybody calm down. I knew it was Marguerite. All right. I had all the faith in you. Yeah, everybody calm down. I knew it was Marguerite the whole time. Yeah, me too. You know, the thing I've got is confidence. Oozing out of every pore. And my pores are really big, so it's just really pouring out. Yeah, I'm just scrolling slowly. Pouring out.

and slowly pouring out you know chevy chase um so the actor chevy chase is he from chevy chase maryland and is that why i have no idea i can't be the only one who needs to know this let's see let's see i got i'm on it i'm on it his name is cornel. His name is Cornelius Crane. What? No, he's from New York City. I think he just liked the name of the town. Hmm. All right. No, it's just a weird coincidence.

The nickname was bestowed on him by his grandmother from, oh, the Ballad of Chevy Chase, which is probably what the town is named after. OK. Yeah. All right. Well, I'm glad we cleared that up. Also, he's a douche, so I just feel like it needs to be said. OK, great. Let's see. So they were having an affair. And this affair

went on for years. At the fair. They had cotton candy, popcorn, one of those big buckets of cookies. What if you started an affair at the fair? I bet it's happened. But not for the

lols, just because of sexiness, right? Right. I want to do it just for the lols. Oh, yeah. And Norm will understand. Will he? I'll be like, hold on. You seem mad. Let me just say the sims.

What if I cheated on him at the cheetah exhibit at the zoo? That'll soften the blow. What if you banged someone at a fireworks stand? A lot of good ideas. Thank you for brainstorming anyway i'm not gonna do any of that don't worry don't worry norm yeah so this affair went on for years which i I've said three times now, so I hope you get it. Everybody's getting it. A lot of people knew about it. John's adult daughter was like, Dad, this is a terrible idea. You need to stop.

But, you know. What about Marguerite's old-ass husband? Did he know about it? Do you think I'm not getting to it? Oh, okay, sorry. Next sentence. Eventually, Robert found out. Because he went to the zoo.

And he saw Marguerite and John in front of the cheetahs. Cheating! And he was like, alright, this is kind of cute. A little too on the nose. Mm-hmm. Which was just a carrot.

I thought it was a button. I thought it was a button. Oh, that's a button nose, yeah. Button? No, you got to put a... Frosty had a fucking button nose. Oh, that's stupid. You should have a carrot nose. We all know that.

Okay. Would you like to know how he actually found out? Turns out it was not at the zoo. I would love to know. Okay. So he went to the fair and he saw this. Stop it. How did he really find out?

Oh, it's a lot lamer than all that. Okay. He was at home and he picked up the phone and he overheard his wife chitty chatting all sexy like with John Lind. These were the days of landlines. Everyone, I'm miming a telephone so Brandy can fully understand. How do the kids mime telephones these days? Like this, right? They can't see you, Brandy.

You're going to have to explain. Well, they can't see what you're fucking doing either, Kristen. Everyone's always picturing me. They're not. Kristen's got like a hang ten situation up by her face. I just held up my whole palm by my face because I do think that's what kids do now when they signify talking on the phone. I think they do this. That's if they're texting Kristen.

Kids, weigh in, please. We have so many kids who listen to this podcast. Children whose irresponsible parents are letting you listen to this podcast. How do you mime talking on the phone? Maybe they don't. Because these days— Mimes don't exist. And also, we all have our phones.

A mime is a terrible thing to waste. God. We all have our phones on us, so I could just gesture with my literal phone. Oh, you would just hold up your actual phone. Yes. Yeah. Okay. All right.

Well, mystery solved. So, you know, Robert heard the sexy, sexy, sexy talk, and he was devastated. He demanded that Marguerite quit cheating on him right this instant. But, you know, she kept doing it. And so then he... After he specifically asked her not to?

Rude. Rude. So then he talked to John, and he was like, quit banging my wife. And John was like, I would prefer to keep banging your wife. So Robert tried threatening John. He said he'd tell the hospital ethics board that he was sleeping with a patient. And John was like, whatever, I'll have you disbarred. So the – He doesn't have the power to do that.

Well, he probably knew enough about Robert to – Oh, you're right. Yeah, I think – come on. Brandi, think with your head. So the affair continued. And by the way, it continued for years. I don't know if I hit that point hard enough. It seems there wasn't much that Robert could do.

point hard enough. It seems there wasn't much that Robert could do. And then one day on February 21st, 1944, Marguerite went into Woodward and Lothrop's. Is that like a department store? Yes. Okay. Which was a big department store in D.C.

You know, I could just listen to you tell the story. No, no, that would be terrible. When people were being super casual, they'd call it woodies. Oh. Just like when Kyla is being super casual, she calls Dillards the lards. Did you know she did that? No. That's ridiculous she did that? No.

That's ridiculous. It's absolutely ridiculous. Okay, so this past weekend, you know, I was trying on dresses for your wedding. And Kyla came with me. And I said I wanted to go to Dillard's. And she was like, we started pulling up. I was like, oh, there's Dillard's. And she goes, oh, yeah, the lards.

And I didn't even know what she was trying to say to me. The lards. The lards. The lards. Anyway, Marguerite went to the department store that day to exchange a pink brassiere. She did her. It had like the pointy cups on it. Probably.

What was up with that? I don't know. Back in the day, they loved those pointy like torpedo boobs. Torpedo tits, yeah. I like a more rounded. I don't know. Back in the day, they loved those pointy, like, torpedo boobs. Torpedo tits, yeah. I like a more rounded. I do, too. Boob. Yeah. Kind of a boob snob.

So she did her exchange, left the department store, and when she exited the building, John Lind was in his car waiting for her at the curb. Worth noting, this was a very busy intersection. They were at 11th Street and G Street Northwest, because evidently in D.C. you just add directions at the end. At the end. So people were coming and going, and Marguerite got into the passenger seat, and as soon as she did, holy shit, her husband showed up out of nowhere. Oh, shit. Robert leaned into the car. He told Marguerite to get out. He tried to pull her out of the car. He and John started to argue and then there were two gunshots. Who had the gun? Good question.

Robert Miller had shot John Lind in the head and in the chest. He died immediately. Marguerite was traumatized. She leapt out of the car covered in John's blood. The car rolled out of control down the street. There was an officer not too far away directing traffic, so he came running up, and as soon as he did, Robert told the officer, I killed him in self-defense. He pulled a gun on me. Look in there and you'll see it. And there was a gun in the car. It was in a white envelope, and it was right next to John's body. What? How is it in an envelope?

How do you think a gun gets into an envelope? You put it in there. Okay, but... don't you know how envelopes work you put a card that's been signed by two people into an envelope so rude um okay but how did it get back in it is this not the murder weapon is this some other gun what okay What? Okay. Because there's no way in the moment that I forgot his nickname. Judge not guilty. Judge not guilty. Like shot John and then put the gun in an envelope and then threw it into the car while Marguerite was getting out in shock and then the car was rolling away. So that envelope gun was already in the car, right?

Maybe. All right. Continue. Robert was arrested and taken to jail and as he was led away, he yelled to anyone who would listen, I told him to stay away from my wife. This was wild. People couldn't believe what they'd just seen.

This had happened on a busy intersection in front of a major department store, so there were witnesses, but it's not like people were really watching John and Marguerite and Robert before the gunshots. Except for the one person who was. Who was? His name was Lamar Johnson, and he was a porter at Woody's, and he said he'd seen the whole thing. He said that after the shooting, he saw Robert throw a white envelope into John's car. You're fucking kidding me.

What? Yep. So the whole thing I said couldn't have happened really did happen? Well, hang on. Keep listening. All right. So, you know, Robert was taken off to jail. He was charged with first-degree murder, which wasn't a bailable offense, but Robert got out on bail.

Yeah, obviously. He's a criminal defense attorney, and his nickname is Judge Not Guilty. Which is a very cool nickname. We can all agree. Right, Brandy? I think it's terrible. So, you know, he has all these attorneys. They were all just the guys from his law firm.

Yeah. Cheaper that way. And they got Robert out before he was technically charged. So Robert got out on bail even though he definitely shouldn't have been out. Also, Robert was 67 at the time. And by all accounts, he was in great health. He worked every day. But in order to ensure that he stayed out of jail, his attorneys argued that Robert was just so feeble.

Yeah. So frail and such poor held that if he were to be locked up for any length of time, it'd probably kill him. Mm-hmm. Yeah. What's 67 adjusted for inflation? That's a good question. But, you know, like, gosh, we see it all the time. Harvey Weinstein, boy, all of a sudden he was just weak as a newborn baby after he got charged.

Yeah, he's a walker to get in. Golden State Killer was motorcycling all around the place and then all of a sudden, oh. Did you see that footage that came out after he was convicted of him, like, scaling the walls of his cell? No. Yes. It was all an act. Of course it was that motherfucker. Yeah. There's all this footage of him during the trial in his cell where he's like using his

little desk to like stand up on top of it and climb up and like touch the top of his light fixture like. Yeah. He's a fucking squirrel. Yeah. And then they wheel him into court and he's like yeah yeah acting like he's in a coma yeah anyway on this podcast we are not fans of golden

and i know that's controversial but you know what I just don't care. So Robert was free as a bird and this story was all over the news. OK. This is just a weird twist that I'm throwing in because I found it mildly interesting. Turns out four days before he was killed, John had made a new will and in that will, he bequeathed his dining room furniture. I'm sorry. He bequeathed it? Did I say bequeath? I didn't say bequeathed his dining room furniture? I'm sorry, he bequeathed it? Did I say bequeath? I didn't say bequeath.

I said bequeathed. We'll never know. If only we were recording this. Okay, I'm sorry. What did he bequeath? Well, everyone thought it was a fart, but it was really just trapped air. And he said, that's my vagina. That's not my butt.

And they said, then why does it smell like that? This is disgusting. This is disgusting. Anyway, he bequeathed his dining room furniture. Yep. And two framed tapestries. To Marguerite? Yeah. That's weird.

Do you think maybe like she helped him pick out the dining room furniture? That's weird, right? It's super weird. Anyway, it really doesn't have anything to do with anything. I just thought it was weird

so I included it. I agree, it is weird. I get to decide whether I tell you about something being bequeathed what would you bequeath me um what would I what would I give you in the event of my death oh I I would give you my creepy haunted art in my living room. Oh, thank you, my friend. You're welcome.

Mmm. Mmm. What would I bequeath to you? Oh, you know what? Maybe I would have myself stuffed and taxidermied. Yes!

And I would demand – I'll dress you up for all the holidays. No, I'm an always newbie. An always newbie. And I have children in the home. Yeah. So they'll be like, wow, I'm really developing an appreciation for the perfect human body. It might be – you know what?

Bad idea. human body. It might be, you know what? Bad idea. It might be kind of like a Barbie situation where the kids get, you know, the wrong idea of like these unattainable beauty standards. Yes, you're right. I think that is what would happen. They're like, oh my gosh, but I don't have

pimples on my butt, but the perfect woman does. Yeah, you don't want them to feel bad. No. So yeah, might as well put a Moomoo on you. Yeah, I was thinking want them to feel bad. So, yeah, might as well put a muumuu on. Yeah, I was thinking about, like, one of those goose statues. We'd do, like, a goose statue. A goose statue?

You haven't seen those goose statues? What are you talking about? It's like a little cement goose statue. It comes with all these different outfits. So you dress it up for, like, it's got, like, a rain jacket. And it's got, like, a little bonnet that you put on it. And then like for Easter, it has like a duck costume. So it's like a goose that's dressed up as a duck. Okay, that sounds pretty adorable.

That's what I'm going to do with you. I'm going to stuff you and I'm going to get a different outfit for you for every holiday. You're going to be a giant shamrock for St. Patrick's Day. Just like your face is one of the clothes. Absolutely. I love this idea. All right, great.

I'm glad that's settled. Okay, great. Don't really do that to me. Okay, I won't. I had a weird moment where I was like, what if I'm hit by a bus? Tomorrow in this show.

And this is recorded. These were her wishes. She demanded to be. But two days before her death. She bequeathed to me her dining room furniture and her taxidermied body. Anyway, these were old timey times, so things moved quickly. Real fast.

They convened a grand jury, and the porter, Lamar Johnson, testified about what he'd seen that day. Okay, so the most important thing that all of these old timey sources need you to know is that Lamar was black. Can you fucking believe it? Yeah, okay. he testified blackly that robert had been standing on the corner clearly looking for someone for several

minutes before the murder i just loved every single source refers to him as a black man? Yeah. Okay. That's not pertinent information in any way. It is though, isn't it? Okay. And also all the sources are – when they talk about Marguerite, they have to mention she's blonde. Yeah. Buxom. Yeah. And then if the reporter didn't get a chub looking at her, he just called her portly.

Oh. One reporter – I thought this was super douchey yeah was you know showed a picture he was like she's 42 but here she is looking much older it's like god jesus christ her husband shot her lover in front of her well like while she was in the car didn, like while she was in the car. Didn't she get blood all over her? Yes, she was wearing a mink coat and it was soaked in blood. Oh, my gosh. And not because one of those PETA people threw it at her. That's right.

PETA probably didn't even exist yet. This was the inspiration for PETA. That's in poor taste. Why did you say that, Brandy? But yeah, isn't it so shitty yeah yeah so a lot of these sources when it comes to lamar it was like they would first mention like he was a black man um and then and like there would be that moment of like so are they going to say his actual name they would say his actual name but you know it would take a few paragraphs.

So Lamar testified that Robert had been standing on the corner, clearly looking for someone for several minutes before the murder. Then a car pulled up. The car stopped. Marguerite got in the car. Lamar saw Robert stamp out the cigarette that he'd just lit, and rush for the car. He pulled a gun from his pocket, thrust it in through the car window, passed Marguerite, and shot John twice. Then Lamar said he saw Robert pull a white envelope out of his pocket and shove it next to the dead man.

Wait, so he didn't see him put the gun in the envelope? Brandi, try to keep up. Two guns. Thank you. I just said different gun, Kristen. I don't think you kept up quite as much as you think you did. But what's the, why is he, oh. See, that's what I'm saying, Marie.

He was also armed. He had to shoot him. That's what he's going to argue, right? Yeah, I mean, welcome. But he planted that gun! Or did he? Wow. Judge not guilty.

Everyone, welcome, welcome. Brandi's just caught up with the rest of the class here. She tried on her wedding dress, looked real good, tasted her food, enjoyed that. She's been on cloud nine. I am! But she has, at last, come to join us.

A police officer testified that after the shooting, as soon as Robert saw him, he said, I killed him in self-defense. He pulled a gun on me. Look in there and you'll see it. That sneaky sneak. That's what the grand jury

said. They were like, oh boy. We've got a sneaky sneak. Yeah, they were like, mad, but not super mad. They were just mad, but, you know, not super, super mad. They were just like, oh, Robert.

By the way, the gun in the envelope was wrapped in a handkerchief, which had the initial M monogrammed on it. Miller. Oh. It was all pretty damning. Really disappointed in myself. Oh, gosh. Brandi, you know you're a highly intelligent person, right? Do you know?

I do know this. Then how do you explain that? Yeah, so, you know, it looked pretty bad, but hear me out. Are we really going to listen to Lamar? Something about his testimony doesn't sound white to me. Also, John was banging Robert's wife and she's Robert's property. So, like, are we really going to be mad? Holy shit.

That is how they're going to look at it, isn't it? At one point during a recess in the hearing, Marguerite and Robert went out in front of photographers and reporters and they kissed passionately. They did? Yeah, one of those kisses where, like, you kiss so hard that your chin gets all. Oh. Yeah, it's not an attractive look. Not a cute kiss. But it's passion.

That's how I'm planning to kiss David at the wedding. That's also how I plan to kiss him. Have you rehearsed your kiss? No. Oh. Should I do that? Yeah, you should rehearse. Okay.

Yeah, because you don't want to like You don't want to You don't want to do that. Gross. Well, yeah. See, this is why you plan. Okay. All right.

Well, I'll go home and tell David that you told me I have to kiss him so we can practice. I also advise putting on lingerie without clothes on underneath. These are my sexy tips. I don't do that until after the wedding. Oh, really?

I am a lady. How many children do you have? So they kissed passionately. Okay, great. The photo of their kiss ran in a bunch of newspapers and they ran it big. Marguerite went on and on to the reporters about how this was all her fault. She wished she could take Robert's place. But she couldn't.

What? Yeah, because that's not how laws work. Yeah, but, you know, you get the idea. She feels terrible. This is all her fault. Smooch, smooch, kiss, kiss. Okay. The grand jury was like, yeah, this should go to trial.

So it did. But everyone in the court system knew Roberts, so they brought in a visiting judge from West Virginia. His name was Benjamin Moore, and as soon as he got to D.C., he said, let's paint the town red. I was about to make a paint joke! Was he green with envy over how Robert had been treated by the local justice system. We may never know. But we do know that one of the things he did was get Robert back into custody because he'd been charged with first degree murder. And you should know that

as I wrote this up, the ghost of Judge Benjamin Moore told me I was laying it on a little thick. But I told him to roll out. Ah! Oh my! Oh the jokes. Oh, the jokes. So jury selection got underway.

And if you're looking for a way to get out of jury duty, let's all take a page from Mrs. Gertrude Ryan Wagaman, who, when asked whether there were any reasons she felt she couldn't be a juror on the case, stood up and said, I think the wrong one was shot. Oh, shit. That's what Judge Benjamin Moore said. And, yeah, she was dismissed. Yeah. Then, okay, I thought this was kind of fun. Well, not fun, but, you know, work with me here.

was kind of fun. Well, not fun, but work with me here. Another guy was dismissed because this was a death penalty case and he was the dude who'd installed the electric chair at the local jail. Is that a conflict of interest? Well, I think they kind of felt like, you know. Maybe he really wants somebody to try out his stuff. Or maybe not. I don't know. I just, oh gosh, I think it'd be bad enough to be the dude who set up the electric chair. Or maybe not. I don't know. I just – oh, gosh. I think it would be bad enough to be the dude who set up the electric chair. Oh, God.

Yeah. Anyway, he was dismissed. OK. You're kind of a weirdo, huh? You're like thinking he'd be really excited. I don't necessarily know that. I mean that would be the fear that he'd be too excited and you don't need somebody having some ulterior motive for – as a juror. So I think it's probably the right move. that he'd be too excited and you don't need somebody having some ulterior motive as a juror.

So I think it's probably the right move. Ultimately, the case moved forward with a jury of 11 men and one woman. Robert Miller's trial began on May 16, 1944. And he was acquitted later that afternoon. No, this trial lasted two weeks. This is less than a month after the shooting. Yeah, that's nuts. Yes. The prosecution maintained that Robert had shot John twice, then planted a gun next to him so that he could later claim self-defense.

They said he'd gone out that day with two guns in his pocket. And it only took Brandy like 45 minutes to figure it out. This was premeditated murder with a premeditated defense. It had been cold and calculating. And you know, that all made sense.

But the defense... Hadn't it probably been cold and calculated? Oh, sense. But the defense. Hadn't it probably been cold and calculated? Oh, wow. Oh, OK. OK, I see. I see. You see what's happening here? I see.

You felt dumb. I'm sorry because I said something dumb earlier. So now. I have to point out. Every minor thing. Do I need to purposely make some errors so you can correct them and you can feel good about yourself? No, I apologize for my previous behavior. Did you know that if you mix blue and green together, you get yellow?

That's not accurate. And don't talk to me about color theory, ma'am. Oh, was that wrong? Maybe you could correct me. I have brought you down to my level, haven't I?

You are feeling so good. You're flying high. Woo! And now I brought you down. No, I'm still flying high. You can't. You're never going to bring me down. Pew!

That was me. Shooting me down. Yeah, that was kind of dark, huh? I was picturing myself more like a little Cupid. Like, you know, tits out. Maybe a little diapy. A little diapy. You know, I'm just, like, the tip of my arrow is a heart.

You know, so. How mad can you be? Not very. Exactly. Oh, blah, blah, blah. Okay, so the defense. Yes, we're all excited about the defense. Right?

Round of applause for the defense. The defense went for. We're all excited about the defense. Right? Right. Round of applause for the defense. The defense went for a twofer. Defense attorney H. Mason Welch told the jury that Robert had shot John in self-defense. And he'd done so after weeks of going crazy with worry over his wife's affair. Okay, but that's a terrible argument because you were saying that John Lind got the gun back in an envelope. Like, this doesn't make any sense. No, he's not saying that.

All you have to do before you shoot someone is like they were... Say I've got a gun and... What? Yeah, I mean, like for them to be reaching for it, you're in imminent danger. All right. Don't like it, do you?

I don't. And he's going to get acquitted. So this was temporary insanity and also self-defense. Mm-hmm. and also self-defense. H. Mason Welch said, A man of unsound mind can shoot in self-defense. He can see a threatening gun and can hear threatening sounds,

threatening words. So they were covering all their bases. Yeah. And by this point, Marguerite was standing by her man, and she was willing to say whatever it took to get him off the hook. Hmm. That's catchy. But back to the prosecution's boring-ass, straightforward case. They, of course, called Lamar Johnson, who testified about seeing Robert waiting for his wife and saw Robert throw a white envelope into the car.

They called psychiatrists who'd examined Robert Miller and said that he was sane. They called some of John Lynn's family members who said that John did have a gun, but that he'd always kept the gun in a bureau drawer in his home. And that's where it was still located. The defense's first witness was Marguerite Miller. And wow, she did a hell of a job. She told the jury that John Lind had been a piece of shit. What?

She said that they'd had an affair for nearly five years, and in that time he'd constantly threatened her that he was going to tell her husband about the affair. She said he owed money to everyone. He was so sketchy. He blackmailed her out of five grand. Adjusted for inflation? Eighty-four grand. Oh.

Chunk of change. You're making a face, Brandon. Yeah, because I'm not buying it. This is just the classic case where the victim sucks. Okay. Also, John always carried a gun, and, you know, he liked to keep it in a white envelope, as you do. Mm-hmm. She also said that she and her husband had argued about her affair with John, and she'd warned Robert that John carried a pistol.

She talked about how awful she'd been to her husband and she said that Robert asked her to stop seeing him and calling him. She told the jury, I was very sassy and ugly to him and I said a lot of things I shouldn't have. Then came the day of the murder. Well, which was definitely not a murder.

It was clearly self-defense. Also, he was temporarily insane. So, you know, choose your own adventure. She testified that Robert had been trying to get her out of John's car. He grabbed her by the arm and the leg. He'd said, Marguerite, you get out of this car. And John said, stay where you are. And John and Robert started arguing.

And John reached for a gun, which, you know, was in the white envelope at his side. And he said, I'll shoot the gray-haired old bastard. But Robert shot him first. See, Brandy? He said he was going to do it, and he was reaching for it. Okay. She said that after he shot John, Robert walked away and she went after him. She said, I took him by the arm.

He didn't know where he was or what he was doing. He kept mumbling, I shot him in self-defense. He kept going on like that. What? Bunch of baloney. No. No. See, she was bad and the victim was bad. A bunch of baloney. No. No.

See, she was bad and the victim was bad. Robert – good. Good. Mm-hmm. Robert Miller took the stand. He cried as he talked about Marguerite cheating on him. He said he found out by picking up the phone while the two of them were talking to each other. And he said it crucified him. Hmm.

After he learned about the affair, he leaned hard on the lard. He prayed a ton. He wailed at the sky. He lit a bunch of candles. He tried to get the affair to stop. He talked to Marguerite. He talked to John. He got scared.

John Lind had a gun. So Robert decided he'd better carry one, too. You know, just to beguerite. He talked to John. He got scared. John Lind had a gun. So Robert decided he'd better carry one, too, you know, just to be safe. Okay. He said that on the day in question, he'd followed Marguerite into Woody's and watched her as she shopped like a totally normal guy. When she left, he saw her get into John's car and he tried to grab her and pull her out. And John said, don't get out of the car. I'll blow that old gray-headed bastard's brains out. And Robert saw John reach for a gun, so he shot first. He didn't remember shooting more than once.

He only found out that he did shoot twice when he went to the morgue the next day. What did he go to the morgue for? Because the rules do not apply to this man. Can you fucking believe this? No! Hello, murderer. Come to the morgue. Yes! He also didn't remember talking to anyone after the shooting.

He said, after it was over, it was a blank to me. He said, after it was over, it was a blank to me. On cross-examination, Assistant U.S. Attorney Charles Murray asked Robert if he recalled throwing a handkerchief in the car after the shooting. And Robert said, they said that, but I don't remember anything about it. I know that's my handkerchief, but I don't know how it got on the seat. I have a theory. What's your theory? Is it that the M stands for Marguerite?

M stands for murder. So it's like it just works on every single level. No, so he's admitting this is his handkerchief, which I'm guessing it had to have been a pretty masculine look. Otherwise, they would have said, oh, that's Marguerite's. Yeah. It had to have been a pretty masculine look. Otherwise they would have said, oh, that's Marguerite's. Yeah.

What I imagine was, yeah, he showed up that day with two guns, clearly planning to use one as like to plant on John's body. Yeah. I'm guessing when he pulled it out of his pocket, he accidentally pulled his handkerchief and threw it in there. Because, I mean, honestly, the first time I saw something about his handkerchief with the M, I was like, this has to be made up. There's no way anyone would be this stupid. Right. Yeah. But then here he is on the stand talking about it. So, I mean, it had to have been.

Yeah. Thank you. You're welcome. Mm-hmm. Thank you. You're welcome. Mm-hmm. A bunch of witnesses testified that Robert had always been a great guy, but in the weeks before the shooting, he'd sort of come unglued. In his closing argument, Prosecutor Daniel Mayer told the jury not to believe Marguerite's story.

He said, she is as versatile in changing her story as she is in changing her affections. Oh, shit. She is the most thoroughly unreliable witness in this trial. He also said that Robert had been a calculating killer, not calculated. He'd plotted how he could kill

John and then walk free. And, you know, the defense, when it came time for their closing argument, they agreed that Marguerite was a hoe for show. They said the only reason we had her testify was because she had stolen from the defendant everything he had ever cherished. And we wanted her to tell the truth of just what happened in the car when Miller shot her lover. She owed him that much. They said their client was just an elderly, broken-hearted man whose wife's affair had driven him temporarily insane. And then, for good measure, they blamed the victim. The defense attorney said that John Lind was a, quote, man whose God-given insight into the human mind was used strictly as a tool of the devil. Why, he knew more about how to seduce women than anyone else on earth.

On earth? And he took sadistic delight in it. That's right, Brandy. Well, sadistic delight in it. That's right, Brandy. Wow. Sadistic delight. Sadistic delight. Yeah, that's why psychiatrists are famous seductors of the women. He asked the jury to acquit his client, quote,

so that in the few years remaining for him, he may somewhat overcome the agony and sorrow he was forced to bear, but had no part in creating. Yeah, okay. The jury deliberated for an hour and 20 minutes. And acquitted Johnland. I mean, I'm minutes. And acquitted John Lund. I mean, I'm sorry. And they acquitted Robert Miller.

I can understand why you would think John Lund was on trial here. Can you imagine? No. Like I'm just imagining his kids going to this trial and they're hearing that their father was like this sadistic seducer. Yeah, good. Yeah. Yeah, they found him not guilty. Two days later, Robert showed up back in court, back in his usual role as a criminal defense attorney. He was there to defend a woman in a larceny case and he got her acquitted. Robert and Marguerite stayed together. And I guess all that talk about him being frail and in poor health was a bunch of bullshit because he died 20 years later at the age of 86.

Holy crap. And Marguerite was right there by his side. Wow. And that's the story of an old timetimey love triangle. That was wild. Wasn't that nuts? Yeah. Oh, man. I had so much fun with that.

All right. You want to talk about a family annihilator? No, I don't. Thank you. Okay, great. Thanks, everyone, for coming to this podcast. You know, you didn't have to actually go somewhere physically, but we appreciate you did it. You can carry it with you.

You know, you didn't have to actually go somewhere physically, but we appreciate you did it. You can carry it with you. Shout out to Sarah Alaska in the Discord for recommending this case and for sending a really great article by Gina Glob for MidwestCrimeFiles.com. Is Sarah from Alaska? I would assume so, or she likes Alaska. She just enjoys it. Or her name is Sarah Halaska. Yeah. The H isn't on the end of the Sarah and it's on the beginning of the Alaska.

Could be that one. Who knows? Also, shout out to Samira Qasm for The Argus, which is a paper associated with Illinois Wesleyan University. Oh, sure. Wesleyan? Wesleyan, yeah. What did I say?

Wesleyan? Okay, excuse me. Wesleyan. Anyway. You sweet, simple woman. Thank you. David Hendricks was worried. It was November 8th, 1983, and he couldn't get a hold of his family.

Couldn't get a hold of his family. David was in Wisconsin on business while his wife Sarah and their three children, Rebecca, Grace, and Benjamin, ages 9, 7, and 5, had remained home in Bloomington, Illinois. What? You're mad already? Yeah. Kids are going to die in this story? Yeah. This is how weird you are. You didn't even know why I was mad. I mean I had an inkling. David had only been gone a day but he'd spent the whole day unable – or unable to reach his family. And as the hours went by, his concern grew. He called neighbors, friends, other family members, but no one had talked to Susan or seen Susan and the kids.

And a neighbor even went over and knocked on the door multiple times at the Hendricks house, but no one answered. Later that evening, David learned that his family had failed to arrive at a family dinner. I think this was like a weekly dinner that they went to. It was super like common for them to go to this dinner. So David, when he hadn't been able to get a hold of them, was like, well, I'll call such and such house after this time and I'll be able to reach them there. Sunday dinner. Yeah. And the kids and Susan had never showed up.

And so at that point, David decided it was time to call the police and ask them to do a welfare check. And he also headed for home himself around this time. So he either called from a hotel room in Wisconsin or from a rest stop on his way home. It's a little unclear to me. But this is how that call went. Bloomington Police. Yes, this is David Hendricks calling from, I'm in Madison, Wisconsin. I live in Bloomington and I'm on a business trip right now.

And I'm a little concerned about my wife and kids because I've been trying to call them all day and haven't gotten dispatcher. Where do you live? David. I live at 313 Carl Drive. Now here are the circumstances. I've tried to call them periodically through the day and haven't gotten them. I'm sure it's no big deal, no big emergency, but they're supposed to be at a dinner date tonight at 530. So I called there to talk to her there and they never showed up there. Dispatcher. What's your wife's name? David. Susan Hendricks. And they're not home because I called a neighbor who's gone over to the house

and knocked. So I think there might have been an accident between Bloomington and Delavan. Delavan. Delavan. Did he not know? No, he knows. I don't know. D-E-L-A-V-A-N. Okay. They probably took Stringtown Road. Dispatcher. Okay. What's, well, you couldn't, that couldn't. You know, we can go out to Carl Drive and check on that.

David. Well, the neighbor's been there. They're not home. As a result of this call, officers were sent to the Hendricks home to do a welfare check. And David worked on getting there as well. David Hendricks is a pretty interesting guy. He was born like in northern Illinois, grew up in the Chicago suburbs. He's one of seven children.

And his family belonged to a Christian fundamentalist group known as the Plymouth Brethren. Oh, gosh. What's the deal there? So it's a super conservative religious group, but they don't attend like regular church services. They have like these meetings. They don't have like brick and mortar churches. They don't have like brick and mortar churches. They don't have ordained ministers. But they do believe in like very conservative values and like the very conservative principles of fundamental Christianity. OK.

families were both in this group and they quickly fell in love. It was clear that they were on their way to marriage and that they wanted a big family. I think this was kind of expected in this group. You have a lot of children. But first, David was focused on completing his education. David had always been a great student. Was he having an affair so he decided to kill his wife and all his kids so that he could not have a divorce. Wow, was he? Pretty close-minded of you, Kristen. Close-minded? You just jumped to that conclusion.

I'm just well-educated thanks to you about family annihilators. I didn't want to be educated in this. Never asked for this. Never asked for it. So anyway, we're not there yet. Kristen, if you could keep your pants on. David had always been. I will, but only because I'm about to try on some lingerie.

You want to get a good base layer going before you put on your lingerie. You know what it reminds me of? Remember in like 08 when it was popular to wear like those kind of lingerie tops? Yeah. And they were long. Yeah. And you'd wear them over jeans. A lot of times you'd wear them over a button up shirt too.

You remember that? And that was a trend. Oh, that was a trend. You'd wear like a white button up under a lingerie top. Yep. What the fuck were people doing? I mean, exactly what you do in your living room, evidently. What the fuck are people doing?

Anyway, David had always been a great student. He actually graduated from high school his junior year. Wow, he graduated from high school? His junior year, Kristen, a whole year early. And then he decided to go into prosthetics. He went to Northwestern University. He attended like a program through their – what? That's a good school.

It is. It's a great school. Yes. So he attended a program through their medical school that specialized in prosthetics. So it wasn't like an actual like doctor program. But he got a degree in prosthetics. It was like a year-long program. OK.

doctor program but he got a degree in prosthetics it was like a year-long program okay by june of 1973 he'd like gotten all of his education under his belt and that summer he and susan were married they were like the picture perfect family david was really skilled in prosthetics he was moving to a real good career in orthotics. And they started having babies. In September of 1974, so just like a year after they'd married, they welcomed their first child, a daughter named Rebecca. And then in May of 76, they had another daughter, Grace. And then in June of 1978, they welcomed a son named Benjamin. Following the birth of Benjamin, though, Susan had some medical problems and she ended up having a hysterectomy. So this was pretty devastating to her because she wanted to have a bunch of kids.

Yeah. And so the couple talked about adopting more children. So David had this family that was like the envy of everyone around him. And he had built this really successful career for himself. So he started in prosthetics and then he went to orthotics and he ended up inventing like this back brace for like scoliosis care. Oh, wow. And by 1983, he like patented. Wow. Why did I hit the piece so hard? Man, you knock that out of the park. I've never hit a piece so hard in my life. Powerful. So he patented this brace and by 1983, he was like selling it everywhere. It was called the cash brace, which stands for something that I didn't write down,

but it's an acronym. Wow. Anyway. And it was on November 8th, 1983, that he was out marketing this brace. So this was super common for him. It was something he did. It was like this is super common in the medical industry apparently and the orthotics industry, whatever industry you want to call it, where you do these cold calls to like doctor's offices and stuff like that. Yeah. He's basically a sales rep, right? Exactly. OK.

Yes. But he's pitching his own product. He was like the whole company. He's basically a sales rep, right? Exactly. Okay. Yes, but he's pitching his own product. He was like the whole company. He only had one employee. But he was super successful. One article called him a millionaire. I did look up their house though and – do you want to see the house? Yes, I want to see the house.

Okay. It's located at 313 Carl Drive, Bloomington, Illinois. Okay. It is a 3,500 square foot house Four beds, three baths Most recently it sold for $179,000 So I don't know if the area has changed or No, he just was not that successful

Or maybe a whole family was murdered in this house And so the value of it has gone down dramatically That too, but also Okay This is just me being me. I think I do like a I love a four season sports. Yeah. Well, that's a big primary suite. I've never seen one.

It is. All right. Well, it's a sizable home one. It is. GG. Alright. It's a sizable home. It really is. There's also, like, he had a motorcycle and an airplane. Why'd he have an airplane? He liked to tinker with it. I don't actually know that

he flew it. But he had an airplane hanger where he would, like, keep his motorcycle and he'd work on his motorcycle and his airplane there. Okay, never mind. I take back what I was about to say. What were you going to say? Well, I was going to say that sometimes I think especially like true crime TV shows and stuff.

Like it's so important for them to establish they had the perfect life that they will sometimes exaggerate a person's success when it's really just like, no, they were just like a middle class family. But no, if he's got a plane that he tinkers with, they're doing all right. Yeah, I think he's doing pretty good. This is the first time I've ever been wrong, so this is devastating. OK. So anyway, he's out of town doing these cold calls when the day goes by that he can't get a hold of Susan and the kids. And so that's when he calls the police and he heads back for home.

By the time David arrived at the home, the police were already there. So police had come doing the welfare check and what they found was horrible. When they arrived at the house, they did like a perimeter check and they discovered that a back door was unlocked. It was closed, but it was unlocked. So they went in. The home was dark and quiet. But the downstairs was a mess. Drawers were open.

Stuff had been gone through, but there wasn't anything missing to speak of. Like this didn't look like a robbery. Stuff was like scattered around, that kind of situation. And then when they went upstairs, they found the bodies of Susan, Rebecca, Grace, and Benjamin. They were all dead in their beds. They had been brutally murdered. They had been brutally murdered. They had been slashed and hacked to death with a butcher knife and an axe.

What the fuck? So the butcher knife and the axe were actually found on one of the children's beds. So Grace and Benjamin were in bed together. And I believe it was on their bed that the axe and knife had been placed. OK. A couple of articles say that the weapons had been completely wiped clean. But I found another source that said that they were covered in blood and hair but were completely clean of fingerprints. Yeah.

That makes sense. Yes. So the police make this horrible discovery. Yeah. so the police make this horrible discovery what was interesting and I'm using that term very loosely is that the crime scene was super bloody each of the rooms were very bloody the beds were soaked in blood there was no blood anywhere else in the house

why was that oh yeah it wasn't tracked anywhere and then they did a test of like the plumbing in the bathrooms. Didn't find any traces of blood at all. There was like one faint footprint like on the leading out from the back of the door. Like maybe a bloody footprint. Maybe not.

Maybe not. But other than like that was it. There wasn't like big trails of blood through the house or a big like clearly cleaned up scene, nothing like that. That's really strange. So when David arrived home, it was after midnight and police were there. He found his home like cordoned off by police, huge police presence. And they broke the news to him that his family was, in fact, at home and they were all dead. According to the neighbors, when David received this news,

he was devastated. He started sobbing. He hit his knees. He was very upset. Very upset. But the police note it differently. They say that David had no reaction at all. They said he was very calm and didn't seem surprised to hear that his family had been found brutally murdered. Hmm. I don't know what to make of that, that they're very different versions of. Yeah, so the neighbors are saying one thing the neighbors are saying they witnessed him get the news and that he immediately became very emotional like literally fell to the ground sobbing and the police say when that's really

weird yes yeah why wouldn't they be on the same page i know so another article said that the police made a statement very early on to like people on the scene that like clearly David had done this. And so maybe that, I don't know, formed some opinions very quickly. Yeah. But even then you would expect like – so if the police don't believe him and he drops to the ground, then they might say, well, you know, he went over the top theatrics. But not say he had no reaction at all. Yeah, that seems so strange. I agree. So they obviously collected evidence from the scene and performed autopsy. So at the scene, they did find, I believe, two footprints.

So one was a little bit smaller than the other. And they couldn't match the footprints to any shoes in the house, any shoes of David's. They couldn't match them up to anybody within the home. Were they the size that David would wear? It says they were not consistent with any of the Hendricks family members. Okay. And there was the lack

of blood evidence in the house. So there was a very bloody scene, but there was like they did. They checked all of the pee traps from the plumbing, assuming that because there wasn't blood tracked from the scene, somebody must have cleaned themselves up. Right. But they found none in any of the sinks.

There was no evidence that anybody had washed blood down the sinks. Wow. Nothing. They then checked all of David's stuff. They checked his car, his luggage, his hotel room that he had stayed at for any traces of blood or bloody clothing. Found nothing. Wow. Mm-hmm. They even went to like every rest stop on the route that he would have taken home.

Sure. Nothing. Holy shit. Mm-hmm. Holy shit. So they immediately take David into custody and are like, OK, tell us what happened. Tell us about the day leading up to you leaving on your business trip. So that day would have been November 7th. And according to David, on that day, he and the kids had spent most of the day together.

He'd done some work. He'd ridden his motorcycle for a while and he'd actually, he'd actually like needed to winterize his motorcycle. So during the day he'd ridden it out to his hangar, winterized it and then jogged home. Okay. And then later in the evening, Susan went to a baby shower that she was like co-hosting at a family member's house in a nearby town. I think the town was like, like I want to say like 40 minutes away. And so while she was gone at the baby shower, David took the kids to the mall because Rebecca had like an art project that was being displayed there.

So they went to the mall and then they went to Chuck E. Cheese where they ordered a vegetarian pizza. I would be so fucking pissed as a 5, 7 or 9-year-old. But apparently – What about as a 36-year-old? I would also be pissed. But what they did order was a pitcher of root beer and I'd be pretty jazzed about that. Yeah. That's what we always had with pizza when I was a kid. A pitcher of root beer?

Yes. It sounds so good. Okay. So we would always go to Pizza Shop. That's our local pizza place that we love. And we would get pizza, obviously. And then my dad would always order a pitcher of root beer. To this day, when we take the kids to Pizza Shop, we get root beer with our pizza. Yeah. I think that's so sweet. Yeah. Love it. So when I read, we get root beer with our pizza. Yeah. I think that's so sweet. Yeah. Love it. So when I read that they had root beer with their pizza, I was like, yeah, that's what you have with fucking pizza.

Oh, duh. Yeah. They were having pizza. What the fuck else are you going to have? Exactly. So they got the pizza at like – God, now I want root beer. I know.

It's so good. Yeah. So they're at Chuck E. Cheese. They get the pizza at like 7 o'clock and David says the kids just like choke the pizza down because they are so excited to be playing at Chuck E. Cheese. At one point, like the kids had eaten the pizza and gone back to playing and David knew he had to gas his car up for his trip because he was leaving like after the kids went to bed to go on this business trip, something he did regularly. He would often do the drive at night so that like first thing in the morning he could hit the places he was going. So while the kids were playing at Chuck E. Cheese, he went and filled the gas tank up and then came back, which scares the shit out of me.

But, you know, OK. I don't know. How far was it? I don't know. I don't know. The lady without kids is like, oh, they're fine. They were fine. So he comes back around 745.

She's like, what? I'm sorry. I'm realizing I am treating this like this man's kids are like a laptop in a coffee shop. Right. And, you know, I will always just turn to the person next to me like, I'm going to go to the bathroom. Would you watch my stuff? Yeah. And, yeah.

You don't do that with children at Chuck E. Cheese. Turns out you shouldn't. You shouldn't. I'm learning that from you. Yeah. A mother. So around 7.45, he tells the kids it's time to wrap it up because they had wanted to hit the library's bookmobile that night. And it was like only there till like 8 o'clock.

And they had to run home, get their books that they had to turn in and then check out new books. So they run home real quick, get their old books, turn those in, check out some new books. And they left the bookmobile at like 8.15, go home. David says he read to the kids for a while, got them all into bed around 9 p.m. It was maybe 45 minutes to an hour after that when Susan got home from the baby shower that she'd been at.

Which I think is weird. Like an evening baby shower? Who's having evening baby showers? Wait, what time did she say she got home? She got home at like 10, 1030. Listen, this is this lady's like one day away from the kids probably. You're right. You're right.

She probably let loose. OK. I hope she did. In a fundamentalist friendly way. Yeah. Jell-O shots, no shots. I think they – so – What?

She dined on carrot sticks, cookies, and punch. Was that it? Yeah. That sucks. Yeah. Carrot – are you sure? Yeah. That's what someone –

That's a terrible baby shower. I agree. Yeah. They didn't even have like little mini Sammies? No Sammies. I think there was a mention of celery sticks as well. But that just made me sad.

Gosh, I'd rather be one of the kids eating that crap at Chuck E. Cheese. Chuck E. Cheese vegetarian pizza. At least you get root beer. Yeah. And you get to play in the ball pit. Which you don't think about being disgusting when you're a child. No, sometimes you do because sometimes it's wet in there.

I'm not letting my child ever go in a ball pit. What if she cries? Then I'm sorry. You're still not going in the ball pit. I will pick her up one day. And take her to a ball pit? Yeah. Not unless you've sanitized every ball before.

So that she can have a good childhood. She can have a good childhood without being in a public ball pit. I will take her to the ball pit, drop her off there, and I'll turn to the nicest-looking stranger and say, hey, can you watch this kid? You know what? Better yet, why don't you just, like, take her into a crowded restaurant and ask every person to spit in her face?

Ew. That's how germy those ball pits are. Oh, okay. What did you think I meant by that? I don't know. I was too – I couldn't even make the leap that we were talking about a metaphor. I was just like, why would I do that? Did you get

in ball pits as a kid? Yes! Alright. I regret it immensely. What? No, I mean, they were gross. Yeah, but also fun. Fun? Yeah, fun. But yeah, there were wet spots for sure. I'm sure it was just

punch. No, it was not. I'm sure it was punch. I'm sure it was a pitch or a root it was not. I'm sure it was punch. I'm sure it was a pitcher of root beer. No, none of those things are true. Anyway, David said after Susan got home from the baby shower, they talked for a few minutes. They actually talked about how excited she was for whoever this family member was that was having the baby and how it made her really want to focus on adopting. And so they talked about, you know, taking steps toward that. And then David said sometime between 11 and midnight, closer to 11, that he kissed Susan

goodbye and he went in and kissed each of the kids goodbye. And then he took off for his business trip to Wisconsin. He checked into a hotel. I couldn't find what time he checked into a hotel, but specifically a couple of articles say he checked into a hotel at a time that made sense with his timeline. So we'll believe that. hotel, starts out the next morning like at 8 a.m. making these cold calls at hospitals and clinics to try and sell his brace. This all pretty much matched up with what they could verify of this. But there was something in the autopsy that didn't sit right with investigators. So when the children's autopsies were done, the contents of their stomach revealed very large identifiable pieces of the vegetables and the pizza crust that

they had eaten at Chuck E. Cheese, which he said they had eaten somewhere around seven o'clock that night. So they would have had to have been killed earlier. Yeah, that's the theory, right? According to the state's pathologist who did the autopsy, they said that most people digest their meal within four to six hours. So for their food to be in their stomachs undigested means they had to die between two and four hours after their last meal, which would have put their time of death between 9 and 11 p.m., which meant David Hendricks was still at home at that point, according to his own timeline. And so that timeline doesn't change depending on if you're a child versus an adult. Interesting. Interesting you'd ask that.

I mean, it's a pretty basic question. Actually, that timeline varies widely from person to person, but we'll get to that more. Yeah. Yeah. Worth noting that during Susan's autopsy, there was no food found in her stomach, yet people had seen her eating at a baby shower later than the kids had eaten. So maybe it's just not a form of science that you can use to determine a time of death. Oh, but they're not going to want to hear that.

No. Oh, no. But who would want to do this? I mean... We'll get there. Okay. Keep on keeping your pants on, Kristen. So they started interviewing... Does this corset fit, you think? What?

Oh, because you got it on over your clothes. I get it now. Lingerie over your clothes. Hilarious. So detectives sat down and talked to a bunch of people who were close to David and the members of his religious group, people that knew him through the workplace. Like I said, there was only one other employee. It was like his office manager who did like everything. Yeah, yeah, sure. everything.

Yeah, yeah, sure. And they talked to family members and no one had any suspicion that David could do this. In fact, all of the family members, even Susan's family members were like, he would not be capable of this. This was a happy family. This was a happy marriage. He wouldn't have done this. I mean even an unhappy marriage. I mean this is just horrible.

But the detectives really thought that David was guilty of this and they thought that even more so when he got himself a defense attorney and refused to take a lie detector test. No, that's called being smart and that's called being a rich guy. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yep. And then he did some media interviews that the police really thought were weird.

OK. So he said in one interview that he thought that the saving grace for him was that his wife and children were now in a better place. I mean, I don't think that's that weird. I don't think it's weird either. He's a super religious guy. Yeah, if you're a really religious person. Yes.

I mean, that's what a lot of religious people say when someone dies is they're in a better place. So, yeah, if you're trying to find the silver lining, that would be what you would go for. And then in another interview, he was asked what he would like to happen to the person that had killed his family. And he said that he hoped that the killer would find Jesus and be saved. Yeah. Again, like that's what a super religious person. Now, that's that I would be. I can't say I wouldn't be raising an eyebrow.

Yeah. Cause that does feel a little bit like, you know, what do you think the punishment should be? Oh, a bunch of cookies, you know, like that.

But at the same time, you have to know. You have to take his beliefs into consideration. And also like I feel like a lot of just like kind of mainstream Christians would say this. Would say that. Exactly. So it's like it's not super off the wall to me. I don't think it's that off the wall either. But the police really thought it was.

OK. off the wall to me. I don't think it's that off the wall either but the police really thought it was. Okay. And so two weeks after the murders David Hendricks was arrested and charged with the murder of his family. Wow. David's trial began in November of 1984 because the court

systems moved much faster back then. So just like, you know, it's still a year, but yeah. I was going to say in mine, we were doing less than a month. And at the trial, the prosecution painted David as a man who was trapped in a marriage he didn't want to be in, but was forbidden to divorce due to his religious beliefs. To back up this theory, they called several women who had been models for David when he made these like pamphlets advertising his back brace. He had models on them.

Sure. When he presented his back brace at like conventions and stuff, he would have models who wore them. Sure. Several of these models testify that during these fittings leading up to their modeling events or pictures being taken, that David had insisted they be nude or topless during these fittings. And the prosecution pointed out that this was alarming because the brace wasn't required to be worn under clothing. It was worn over your clothing. Yeah, that is weird. Yeah. And is that true that it? So we'll go into the testimony a little bit. So a couple of women, a couple of women testified that they found David to be a little uncomfortable during these fittings. A couple of women testified

that he'd kind of rubbed their backs a little bit during these fittings. Another testified that after David had asked her to remove her bra, he'd commented on how ample her breasts were. Ew. And then he'd asked her to lift them out of the way while he'd made measurement markings on her body. One woman who was just 19 at the time that she modeled for him said she was really surprised when she showed up for the modeling event to learn that she needed to be nude during the fitting. It made her really uncomfortable.

And so she had wrapped a towel around herself as he'd done the fitting and like just moved it as necessary. Right. And in the end, she had been so uncomfortable with it that she didn't finish the job. Yeah. No, that sounds creepy as hell. Yeah. Another woman testified that when she showed up for a fitting session with David that she found him, like, dressed really nicely and he, like, combed his hair differently than

normal and he was wearing cologne. And she suspect maybe that was an attempt to impress her or maybe he was going to make a pass at her. But she had brought her husband and David was really surprised by that. And so she believed that by bringing her husband that day, it had put a stop to whatever plan maybe David had had to make any advances on her during that fitting. This still isn't evidence that he murdered his whole family though. It sure isn't. It is creepy. It's creepy. It's absolutely creepy. It's creepy.

It's inappropriate. It is not evidence that he murdered his family. So the prosecution argued that the interactions with these models showed that he was looking for something outside of his marriage. And they said this was further bolstered by the fact that David in the year prior to the murders had lost 40 pounds. He'd gotten a new hairstyle. He'd shaved off his mustache. He started wearing like more fitted clothing. Did he do like a Chris Watts makeover

thing? Yeah. And they said these things together equaled a motive. No, not really though. Yeah. Obviously he was trapped in a marriage he no longer wished to be in, but because of his super conservative religious beliefs

he couldn't get a divorce because then he'd be ostracized from his group. Yeah, no, I totally get all of that. And that may be the case, but like we need evidence that— This is the evidence, Kristen. No, that's a theory. That's not evidence. Evidence.

You can't— Testimony. That is not enough. No, it's right there there i just told you all of it sounds like he had a hot boy summer lost a little weight got some new duds i mean that's yeah there were also a couple models testified that they didn't think there was anything weird that david did like that was just kind of standard model stuff i mean and you know it's possible he was creepy with some. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, again, that's not evidence that he murdered people. Yeah.

Do we have evidence that he murdered anybody? All right. Let's get to it. Please. Okay. Let's get to the forensic evidence. You don't have any, do you? No. Here's what we do have.

The axe and the butcher knife, they belong to the Hendricks family. Yeah, I mean we probably already knew that because their home hadn't been broken into. So it had to have been somebody who knew them, probably. Also, hold on.

There was no forced entry. Yeah, so it was someone who knew them. Or David. It's his own home. Yeah, yeah. No, it definitely could be David. Also, one of the bathrooms, when they did luminol testing in there, whole bathroom lit up. Okay.

whole bathroom lit up. Okay. But also they did have to admit that Luminol also can react to bleach and Susan was known to clean her bathrooms with bleach. Okay. Great. Mm-hmm. And then there was no evidence of blood in any of the drains and the pee traps in the bathroom.

So, yeah. When are you going to tell me about – Stomach contents. Oh, no. The stomach contents, right? That's what you want to know about? No. I want to know about alternative suspects.

That food was not digested. So the kids obviously died before David's business trip because that is solid science. No, it's not. You just told me it's not. It's not. Okay. How about this? Several people from the Plymouth Brethren group were called to testify about their religious beliefs and how conservative they were and how divorce is bad.

So how about that? I mean divorce is bad in a lot of communities. OK. They probably also think murder is bad. Yeah. Did you say that because that's the defense's take. Yeah. Yeah.

Divorce is not worse than murder. Yeah. It's interesting that you say that because that's the defense's take. They're like, yeah, divorce is not worse than murder. So. Okay. How about this? Susan's sister, after the murder, she'd gone through a divorce. And then, like, she wasn't even allowed to come to the brethren meetings anymore. Yeah. I mean, that's douchey.

No, so that's what David was afraid of. Right, sure. Yeah, no, I get that. That's obnoxious that like you get divorced and then you're out of your community. Yeah. Sounds like your community sucks, but you know, I don't judge. Obviously, David wanted to avoid the social stigma of a divorce. Didn't want to be ostracized from his group. Again, that's a theory.

No, this is evidence. I already gave you the evidence, Kristen. Damn it. So that's the prosecution's whole case. Okay. OK. Yeah. So then it was the defense's turn and they countered a lot of the testimony that the prosecution had given. So first they talked about David's interactions with the models.

They didn't claim for the most part that anything like – that it didn't happen. Yeah. They did say, you know anything like – that it didn't happen. Yeah. They did say, you know, yeah, that would be pretty inappropriate. But also David was researching the development of another brace, which was required to be worn differently. It hasn't been produced yet. But that's why he was asking some models to be topless and not other models. models to be topless and not other models. Yeah. They didn't specifically deny that he'd made any advances to these models, but they said, you know, wearing cologne and combing your hair is not –

Yeah, lock me up. It's not pertinent to the trial in any way. Right. The defense presented evidence that several family members, friends and neighbors were aware that the Hendricks family had an axe in their house. Lots of people could have known that it was there and it was really common in this area at this time for people to leave their doors unlocked. Oh, OK.

I see. So – I was just going to say like I feel like a lot of people have axes. A lot of people have axes. Yeah. And yeah, the door being – they said the no forced entry just means that like the family very commonly left their back door unlocked. Yeah. They really hammered home the fact that there was a lack of blood evidence found on anything of David's.

There was no evidence found in his car. No bloody clothing was found. His shoes didn't match the footprints that they did find at the scene. There was literally no evidence tying him directly to the murders. Zero. Right. Zero. Yeah. I mean, so this is pretty alarming. Yeah. So then the defense called their own pathologist to talk about the stomach contents.

And this pathologist talked about how this is super unreliable in determining a time of death. Like literally by this point, the American Journal of Forensic Medical Pathology was talking about how you cannot use this to determine time of death because way too many things can impact how fast food digests, how big a bites you take, how fast you eat, how active you are after you eat. Your own individual metabolism. Yeah. All of these things impact how fast food is digested or how slow food is digested. Yeah. So this is simply – the defense argued that this is simply not a valid determination of time of death. Valid determination of time of death. And the defense contested the motive theory that the prosecution put forward. They talked about his religious beliefs and they said, yeah, like.

Sure, you know, it might be frowned upon in their religious group to be divorced, but they called a couple of witnesses who were like, yeah, you know, it's looked down upon, you know, but it's not something that is like you're not shunned for it. You aren't excommunicated for it. Well, wasn't her sister shunned for it? I mean she wasn't invited to get togethers afterward. That's a shun, my friends. Maybe if you're a dude, it's different. It probably is different. Let's be honest.

But they also stressed that murder was against their beliefs and would be much worse than divorce. Yeah. Yeah. Much worse than divorce. Yeah. Yeah. And the defense also stressed that David's comments that he made in those interviews following the death of his family were just testaments of his faith and his religious beliefs. Yeah, absolutely. And not weird at all.

I agree. I agree as well. at all. I agree. I agree as well. Lots of family members and friends and Susan's family members testified in David's defense that he would be incapable

of this, that they had a wonderful marriage. The police had looked at the wrong person. Yeah. But the jury believed the prosecution. Oh, my God. They didn't have anything though. Now, granted, it's always the dad.

Yeah. Yeah. But, I mean, that's not beyond a reasonable doubt though. So the jury found David guilty of four counts of first-degree murder. So this was a death penalty eligible case. Yeah. But following his conviction, David waived his right to jury sentencing and opted to be sentenced by the judge. That seems smart.

I agree. the judge. That seems smart. I agree. And so the judge acknowledged that the death penalty was an option. But then he sentenced him to four life sentences. And he said, based on the evidence admitted at trial against this defendant, I am not personally convinced that he has been proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Yeah. Yeah. And so David Hendricks was sentenced to four terms of life in prison. Holy shit. Thank God for that judge. No kidding.

No kidding. David spent the next six years appealing his conviction. And in July of 1990, his appeal made it all the way to the Illinois Supreme Court. And they overturned his conviction. Yeah. On a couple of grounds. The defense had objected to the testimony of the models saying that it was very prejudicial and that it wasn't pertinent to the murder case. Right. Yeah. So they had objected prior to the start of the trial.

The judge had allowed it in only on the grounds that the prosecution had to use it to show that David Hendricks had escalated in his treatment of the models over time. He's gotten more aggressive with them. He'd required them to wear less clothing. And did they demonstrate that? Okay. So that's what they did. They put the models on the stand and this one, she was fully clothed, but then this one was forced to be topless. And then this one was topless and he touched her back. And so they laid this out to show that he was escalating from model to model. But was that not the order that they actually – So when the Supreme Court looked into the case on appeal, they learned that the prosecution had manipulated the order of the witnesses to show this escalation.

They did not testify in the order that they had actually worked with David. Yeah. Yeah. So there was no escalation. There wasn't a clear escalation. He did ask different models to be different levels of undressed, but it wasn't an escalating pattern. That is fucked up.

Mm-hmm. What he did is creepy. Like, it's creepy that what he was— Sure. That he grazed a woman's boob and rubbed her back while she was— Yeah, and white comment on her boobs. Ample bosom. Yes.

Yeah. Not necessary. All creepy. Not proof that he murdered his family. Right. Yeah. Not all creepy. Not proof that he murdered his family. Right. Yeah. So when they did this, so they had the first model testify and she said that she kept her leotard on the whole time. And then the next model testified that she had a bra and underwear on.

And then the next model testified that she had been told to go topless. But they hadn't modeled for David in that order. That is so upsetting to me that the judge is like, I'm only going to allow this in if it proves escalation. And so they're like, oh, yes, we will prove escalation. And they, you know, did their fingers like Mr. Burns. Yeah. Yeah, I think I think prosecutors who do this shit should serve jail time. Yeah.

It shouldn't be a little hearing or anything. I think you should when you do something this intentional. Intentional. They intentionally manipulated the testimony.

Mm-hmm. That is prosecutorial misconduct yeah that is fucked up yes the supreme court also said that david's religious belief should not have been permitted at trial because the way they were talked about was extremely prejudicial. They couldn't – they didn't prove motive. They just damaged his – the way the jury saw him. Did they just make him seem like a weirdo or what? Yeah, they made him seem like a weirdo and they made him seem like, yeah, like it was murder or nothing because his religious beliefs didn't allow for him to get a divorce, which wasn't necessarily

true and people testified to that. But the Supreme Court says that testimony should not have been allowed in at all. OK. And so on July 3rd, 1990, David Hendricks' conviction was overturned. By this time, David had remarried while he was in prison. And so I believe he was still kept in custody because they tried him again. So in 1991, his second trial began. So this time, the models were not allowed to testify.

None of that evidence was brought in. The prosecution was not allowed to discuss his religious beliefs like at all. The main evidence against David at his second trial became the stomach contents. And it was heavily debated by the prosecution and the defense about whether that is a reliable method to determine time of death. And by this point, there had been lots of articles that had come out in the forensics world that like it just isn't. Yeah. It just isn't. An expert for the defense explained that the way the kids had rushed to eat and then immediately gone to play, that would have completely changed their digestive process.

Right. And so you can't determine anything based on their stomach contents other than, yeah, they ate at Chuck E. Cheese where their dad says they did. That's all you can determine based on their stomach contents. Yeah. The prosecution did put forward a new witness at this second trial. It was like a last minute, like, you know, Hail Mary witness. It was a former cellmate of David's from when he was serving his time following his initial conviction. This guy said that while he was bunkies with David Hendricks, that David Hendricks had

confessed to murdering his family. Bullshit. No, he totally did it. Totally did it. But to contest this testimony, the defense put up a whole bunch of witnesses, including other prisoners, who said that that guy lies all the time and does anything he can to just like get a little time in court, get a little spotlight on him. Sure. And that he should not be believed. Yeah. It's amazing in these weak ass cases how these jailhouse snitches just pop up. So convenient for the prosecution. Yeah. I'm sure they're not getting anything in exchange for their testimony. Right. Yeah. At his second trial, David Hendricks. Was this prosecutor invited to go eat a dick or like do this? I would love to know.

I need to look more into this prosecutor and see what happened because this is just a fucking mess. Yeah. Thankfully, at his second trial, David Hendricks was acquitted of all charges. Yeah. But who murdered his family? Okay. So we'll get there. So—

I do not have the patience. We're almost there. We are almost there. Can you wait it out? Just like I've got like one more paragraph and then we'll get there. I I do not have the patience. We're almost there. We are almost there. Can you wait it out? Just like I've got like one more paragraph. No, then we'll get there. I've asked you thrice. So since his acquittal, David has actually left his religion.

He says he's no longer a man of faith. He moved to Florida, started an orthotics company there and was very successful. He ended up a few years ago selling his company and is retired now. He is married to his fourth wife who – Yeah. So he divorced the woman that he married while he was in prison, was married to some other mystery woman. There's no mention of her ever and then is now married to his fourth wife who he describes as the second love of his life. Ouch.

I know. To those middle two. Ouch. I know. To those middle two. Yeah. So when he's been asked who he suspects of murdering his family, he has an answer. So he said while he was in prison, he learned that Susan's younger sister, so she's the one I believe who had gone through the divorce. So the divorce hadn't happened at the time of the murders. It happened shortly after the murders.

So she said that right after the murders, her husband had brought her scrubs to wash that were splattered with blood. Oh. And so she just washed them. She hadn't said anything. She hadn't washed them. She hadn't said anything. So she came to David with this information after they had divorced and said that he was very jealous of David's family because David was so successful. They had all the things that he wanted and that he knew how to access the home. He knew where they kept an extra key. He knew they had an axe in the home. Oh, my God. And that there was, like, she, so when this sister came to David, she also recalled that there was this really weird incident that her husband told her about

where, like, they had taken Benji to, Benji was what they called Benjamin, their youngest child. They'd taken him for a walk through a cemetery and like her husband had said something to the effect of like this is where you go when you die. Are you prepared to die? Like at the time she thought it was just kind of like a weird offhand comment but then when he died not that far into the future. Oh, gosh.

Yeah. not that far into the future. Oh, gosh. Yeah. So David believes this is the person who murdered his family. He took this information to the police following his acquittal. And they like – he actually hired a private investigator first. Yeah. And the private investigator tried to look into this and talk to this guy a little bit.

But he did admit the bloody scrub incident to this private investigator. But he said that he got them from a doctor at a hospital where he worked. And a doctor handed him bloody scrubs to take home and wash. Yeah. No. You know, these could be yours to take home and wash. Yeah. No. You know, these could be yours now if you want them. Yeah. All you have to do is wash them.

And so the private investigator had gone and talked to that supposed doctor and the doctor was like, yeah, that never fucking happened. No. Why on earth would that happen? And then they looked into it further and that doctor that he claimed had done that didn't even work at that hospital yet. Didn't start working at that hospital until like four months later. So then David took this information to the police following his acquittal. And they were like, no. And they were like, no, we already found the right guy.

Yep. Yeah, you got away with it. So enjoy. Yep. Wow. Mm. Wow. So he says specifically, he said, without the power of the police behind you, you can't do anything in an investigation. As people ask him, like, you have you're wealthy. You have money.

Why don't you spend it trying to solve the murder of your family? And he says, with the without the power of the police behind you, you have nothing. You can't buy that kind of power. While in prison, David befriended his cellmate, this guy named Henry Hillenbrand. He was a convicted murderer. He actually had escaped prison at some point too and then been recaptured. They really bonded and David spent hours interviewing him and recording the interviews. And then years later, he turned it into a book.

Oh, really? Yeah. What's the book? It is called – hold on. Let me pull up his website. It is called Tom Henry, Confession of a Killer. So Tom Henry is a mashup of this guy's actual name, Henry Hillenbrand, and then the name he went by when he was a fugitive, which is Tom something. Tom something. Tom Elliot.

Interesting. And that's the story of a family annihilator. Oh. Wow. It's possible he murdered his family. There's not enough there. There's not anywhere close to enough there. There's just as much evidence that he did it that there is that this – I actually think there's more evidence that the ex-brother-in-law did it.

I think there's way more. Yeah. Because – The bloody scrubs thing. Yeah, that's fucking weird and for them like to actually have tracked down this specific doctor and the doctor's like not only did that not happen i didn't work at that hospital then yeah oh

that was horrible. Yeah. But very interesting. Sarah Alaska. Thanks, Sarah. OK. So Bloomington, Illinois is actually like the inspiration for the town that the Halloween movies are set in and maybe where it was filmed. I read like one quick article about it that Sarah also helped.

So there's like some talk that David's kind of the inspiration for Michael Myers. So there's your Halloween. Oh my god. Your fucking watch! Oh my god. Sorry about that. What did your watch go off for?

It did an internet search for Michael Myers. Oh, great. Thanks. Appreciate it. Should we take some questions from the Discord? Absolutely. You get into the Discord by joining our Patreon at the $5 level or higher. You get to chitty chat the day away.

And when we record, we ask you for questiones. And we sound cool when we do it. Yeah, do we? Oh, here's a question. Two raccoons in a trench coat wants to know, I need to know more about the bachelorette party cake. What flavor was it? Did it have filling? What did you do with the dongeration?

Okay, so last week we talked about the penis cake that my mother procured for you What flavor was it? Did it have filling? What did you do with the dungeration? Okay. So last week we talked about the penis cake that my mother procured for you for your bachelorette party. Yes. And I also want to know – so I sent you home with it. Yeah. What did you do with that dung? I just broke it open to see what it was filled with. I didn't eat – I broke off like a little piece of it.

But it was like – it was made of white chocolate. White chocolate is not my favorite. And it looked good. It looked beautiful. The fingernails on the hand were like Sour Patch. Oh, delicious. Like – Yeah.

More like Sour Patch like ropes rather. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Than like Sour Patch Kids. Did David partake in the dong cake? He touched the dong and had some of the like a couple he's not a cake person so he did have like a bite of the cake but yeah he did hold the dong so there you go it was chocolate flavored to answer the actual question thank you ma'am i see fat legs wants to know kristen do you brush your dog's teeth regularly? No.

Am I supposed to? I think a lot of people do. Really? So I didn't brush my dog's teeth, but they like went to the vet and got like dental cleanings. But a lot of people brush their dog's teeth like a lot. Like how often? Like a lot. I mean, we give them dental chews and stuff like that.

Yeah. I mean. I don't know. Are people brushing their teeth? Their teeth's dog? Their dog's teeth like every day? Surely not. That would be nuts.

Are you kidding me? Sounds ridiculous. Okay. Game Show Aficionado wants to know, Kristen, I know you find yourself at Costco from time to time, and I was wondering if you've ever had a bathroom emergency while there before. I had one just last week and thought of you. It was a number two situation, and luckily I made it to the bathroom in the nick of time. So this question made me think I have never been to the bathroom at a Costco ever. Where's the bathroom even at?

have never been to the bathroom at a Costco ever. Where's the bathroom even at? It's, okay, so past the registers. And you know how they've got like the super secret area where they keep all the valuable stuff? Past that, you go past a break room and then you're in the bathroom. Oh, okay. So you have used the bathroom. Sure, sure. I've never had an emergency, but I love that someone thought of me as they almost crapped their pants in a Costco.

It is lovely. That they thought of me? Yeah, that they thought of you. Yes. I'm sorry. That's the legacy you have, Kristen. That people think of you as they almost shit their pants. Yeah.

Could have been a Kristen moment. Do you ever feel embarrassed when you buy the big things, the toilet paper there? No. I do. You do? Yeah, because people know I'm just pooping. That's one of the few things in my life I'm not embarrassed about. Maybe you should consider it.

I've never been embarrassed by toilet paper. I shouldn't be. I mean, it's silly. I remember when I was younger, I used to be really embarrassed to buy tampons. Yeah. But now you're a grown-ass adult. I'm a grown-ass adult, yeah. I used to think, oh, my gosh, I'm going to buy these tampons and they're going to know I have a vagina.

I mean, secret's out. It was a mystery before I confirmed it with the tampons. I don't know. Like, why was that something I was embarrassed about? Because you're taught to be embarrassed of everything. Yes. Yeah. Especially as it relates to being a girl or being a woman.

This conversation is getting depressing real fast. It is. It's too depressing. Okay. I know we've already answered a question from I See Fat Legs but I have to know. They ask,

would you ever get a perm? Would you ever get a perm? I have had a perm before. Shut up. I got a perm in cosmetology school. Oh, you did? Just for like

the experiment of it all? What did you think? I ruined my hair. What did... It's just like it's a really harsh chemical and so it made my hair like crunchy. Did you look like a ramen noodle head? No.

It actually looked cute and I did this like – so I would do this like really cute like messy ponytail because my hair wasn't real long. So I could do it like – I could put it in a ponytail and it just kind of like – Poof. Poof. Poof. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I loved that.

But – You hated how it felt. Yeah, because then – like I still wanted to straighten my hair sometimes and then it would feel terrible. Of course. Yeah. How – if you get a perm, how often do you have to get the perm? I mean so like they just grow out.

They do relax over time as well. But yeah, I mean, just like when your roots start, if you want to keep it up, you got to when your roots start showing. Get those rooty tooties fresh and fruity. That's exactly right. Is that why you sometimes see people with like weirdly curly hair at the bottom? Yeah, probably. Either that or the person who cut their hair doesn't know how to curl doesn't know how to cut curly hair and so then they got triangle head. That's a cool look.

Are you just talking shit because you don't know how to do triangle head? No, I know how to I could make triangle head happen if I wanted to. Don't threaten me. Ooh, Karaoke Night at Emeralds wants to know, Brandi, what flowers have you picked for your wedding? I am a maverick.

Oh, boy. There we go. I am doing no flowers, only greenery, ferns as far as the eye can see. We're calling it fern gully. No, we're calling it Balloons, Balloons, Balloons. Oh, OK. What is wrong with people ask, what is the first CD you ever bought? I actually don't remember what the first CD I ever bought was, but I do remember what the first cassette tape I ever bought was.

What was it? Spice Girls. That was my first cassette tape I ever bought was. What was it? Spice Girls. That was my first cassette tape too. I bought it at the Sam Goody at Oak Park Mall. Of course you did. Of course you did. It was a fabulous store. Yeah, with my own money. And I thought I was

hot shit. I actually robbed someone. Did you? Yeah. Uh-huh. Boy, you're giving me a look. Oh, wears t-shirts sometimes. Wants to know, Kristen, how them titties doing? That's not actually the question. Oh, well, I was about to ask, did you see my fur cup?

I was like. The specific question is, did you ever find a bra that you like? Yes, I did. But here's the thing. I did the thing I always do, which is ever find a bra that you like? Yes, I did. But here's the thing. I did the thing I always do, which is I find one bra that I like and I wear the shit out of it. Uh-huh. And I mean. Now you need another one.

Yeah. I mean, what the hell am I doing with my life that I've got one bra that I like? I mean, I have a lot of sports bras. So, you know, I'm cleaning this thing. Yeah. Don't worry, everybody. But still. Suspicious Midwest Salad asks, when is the appropriate

time to decorate for Christmas? Whenever the fuck you feel like it. I agree. I completely wholeheartedly believe that. You want to decorate on November 1st, decorate on November 1st. You want to decorate before Halloween, I don't give a fuck.

Yeah. Do what makes you happy. Yeah, it can be depressing when the seasons change. Yes. And it feels so dark out and all that stuff. If having up the holiday decorations gets you going, by God, get it going. Do it. Aren't you watching this shit?

Down Bitch wants to know, are you watching The Mole? Yes, but I kind of dropped off of it. I don't know why. Down Bitch says, I started the new one last night and I'm hooked. Yeah, no. I was initially hooked myself. Oh, okay. But then I got more and more annoyed.

I do want to know who the mole is, so I'll finish it. But I kind of dropped off after a while. Also, these streaming services, they're starting to do the thing where they don't just drop an entire season in one night. I know. Okay, I'm so pissed about that because they created the binge monsters that we are. Right. And then now they're taking it away and doing these one episode a week drops. I hate it.

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. All right. Well, they're all listening. They'll make some changes. Obviously. Kristen, this question is clearly for you because we all know my answer

do you ever go commando and I just lost the question so I have no idea who asked it well I know the answer regardless of who asked it absolutely just freeball it freeball it's called let the kitty breathe do you not go commando

every now and then no brandy no for real no even like in your own home you don't just throw on a pair of sweats and no why not because like things get sweaty and chafey and i mean not super sweaty like know, there's less fabric down there. You got to try this shit out, Brady. It's a whole new world. Not interested. Okay. Wow. Wow.

All right. The Ginger Snap wants to know, what's the best hostess snack? Hmm. What does that mean? Does that mean like an appetizer? No, no, no. What? A snack by the brand hostess.

Wow. All right. Go ahead, Brandy. Clearly you're more prepared for this question than I am. Yep. I like the basics. I like a Twinkie. That's your favorite hostess snack?

Yeah. It's underrated. Don't they do ding-dongs? Yeah. That's clearly – Ding-dongs are delicious. That's clearly superior to a Twinkie. Twinkie's better.

No. Yeah. No, it's not, Brandy. Ding-dongs delicious. Yeah. Twinkies are better. Twinkies are better. The ding-donggs have that icing.

They sure do. Which makes it superior to the Twinkie. How about a raspberry zinger? I don't know that I've had a raspberry zinger. OK. It's literally like a Twinkie but then it's like dunked in raspberry sauce and then it's coated in coconut. Well, that sounds amazing. It's delicious. It also sounds better than a Twinkie, but then it's like dunked in raspberry sauce and then it's coated in coconut. Well, that sounds amazing. It's delicious.

It also sounds better than a Twinkie. No, I like the, you know, I like the basic. I like a Twinkie. I do like a raspberry zinger. I also like a ding dong. Are oatmeal cream pies, those are Little Debbie. That's Little Debbie. Wow.

I'm sorry. You know, it's like I talked to- Those don't belong in this fucking conversation. In front of little Debbie herself. My god. But yeah, ding-dongs are way better than – what else we got in the hostess family? You got those little pies. They make the mini fruit pies.

No. Hard pass. What about mini donuts? No, I'm not as – I'm nothing like you. I know you love those fucking mini donuts. The crunch ones? Yeah, any of them. No.

I'm running out of hostess snacks. Cupcakes? The cupcakes with the white swirly on top? That's a ding dong. No, that is a cupcake. A ding dong looks like a hockey puck. It's completely coated in the chocolate. A cupcake has the

chocolate frosting on the top and then the white swirl down the middle. Okay, that's my favorite. Whatever the fudge we're calling that, that's my favorite. Boy, I feel like you really gave me an education. Also, everyone, just so you know, Brandi didn't have to Google any of this. No.

This was just straight from her brain to your ears. All right. Very good. Should we do some Supreme Court inductions? I believe we shall. Oh! And you know what? Right now, we are reading your names and your first celebrity crushes.

It's about to get sexy. That is right. Annalise Dixon. Buddy from Hey Dude. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. I loved Hey Dude. It was so good.

Brandi Mandel. Johnny Depp. Breach or Queer? JTT. JTT, Queer? JTT. JTT, very popular. Very popular. Tiffany Williams. Keith Urban.

Ina Schmidt. Robbie Williams slash take that. I don't know what we're talking about. Robbie Williams, he's like a British pop star. Oh, okay. And maybe he was in Take That? I don't know what Take That is. That I don't know.

All right. Sorry, Ina. I'm guessing that it's probably Ina. Ina Schmidt. I apologize, Ina. Shannon Hicks. Jordan Knight and Donnie Wahlberg. Oh, that's greedy.

Eric Morris. Zac Efron. Oh, very cute. Didn't you fall madly in love with Zac Efron. Oh, very cute. Didn't you fall madly in love with Zac Efron? Obviously. Well, I'm sorry. Excuse me. Jessica Soto.

Jordan Knight from New Kids on the Block. Michelle M. Andrew Keegan. That dreamy hair. He did have dreamy hair. It was crunchy. No, but it was dreamy, too. He started a cult, so.

Oh, hey, we're not talking about now. We're talking about back in the day. He started a kombucha cult. The most disgusting type of cult. Joan Maxwell. Kirk Cameron. I know Joan. Oh, do you?

I do. Oh. Brianna Sanchez. David Arch know Joe. Oh, do you? I do. Oh. Brianna Sanchez. David Archuleta. Oh. He's from American Idol. Oh. He was the season of the two Davids.

It was David Cook and David Archuleta. How old are you? It was like in the early days of American Idol. Okay. Maddie Garcia. Skateboarder Ryan Sheckler. Oh, my gosh. Oh, wow.

Brandy's going to have to go use the bidet now. He's in one of my favorite movies, Grind. Okay. Also, Adam Brody's in it. He's wonderful as well. I was about to ask. You were not. Amber.

Bo Burnham. Do I need to explain who Bo Burnham is to you? No, he's a comedian. Thank you. Amy M. Leo DiCaprio, when he was the cousin on Growing Pains. Oh. Oh, she had a crush on him first.

Before he was cool. Welcome to the Supreme Court. My feet are cold. Okay. Thank you everyone for all of your support. We appreciate it so much. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. On Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Patreon.

Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen. And then head on over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a five-star rating and review. And while you're on the internet doing stuff, head on over and subscribe to The Gaming Historian. You know what we should have mentioned earlier? What? Next week. Prepare to be D.P.'d. If you know, you know.

Be sure to join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics podcast adjourned and now for a note about our process i read a bunch of stuff then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary and i copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes wikipedia so we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. I got my info from a ton of old-timey reporting found in newspapers.com. I got my info from an article for the Midwest Crime Files by Gina Glob, an article for the Argus by Samira Qasim, crimetraveler.com, David Hendricks' website, Wikipedia, and the court record. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com.

Any errors are of course ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.