Let's Go To Court! - 235: Prepare to be DP'd!

Episode Date: November 9, 2022

He’s back by popular demand! Kristin’s dad, DP, returns to the pod to ask critical questions, like: Where’s Norm? Where’s David?? And do you have at least six months’ living expenses in savings???  But first, Brandi starts us off how she often does — with the story of a “perfect” marriage. At least, that’s what Teresa Kohnle called it. When her husband, Jim Kohnle, died in a house fire, she was devastated. She told investigators that she’d loved him “more than life itself.” Later that day, she inquired about his life insurance pay-out.  Then DP tells us about Ira Bernstein. Ira and Susan Bernstein had serious money. He was a podiatrist. She had her PhD in education. They lived in a gorgeous mansion. They had a pool, a tennis court, plenty of acreage, and a lake. But their marriage was rocky. Ira had numerous affairs and eventually Susan decided she’d had enough. With a nasty divorce looming, Ira and his new girlfriend Kelly Gribeluk hatched a plan.  And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, DP pulled from: "The Target" episode of Dateline Secrets Uncovered "Ira Bernstein" from ChillingCrimes.com "Podiatrist Ira Bernstein's Estranged Wife: Kids Fear His Release from Prison" by Robert Brum at Lohud.com  "Wealthy Podiatrist Plots to Kill His Wife" an episode of True Crime Daily In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Smoke Gets in Your Eyes” episode American Monster “Teresa Kohnle” episode Snapped “Woman Drugs Husband And Sets Fire To Their Home, But Claims It Was His Idea” by Benjamin H. Smith, Oxygen “Woman accused of arson in death of husband gets life sentence with parole” by Adam Cook, Dalton Daily Citizen “Teresa Kohnle Accepts Plea To Life With Possibility Of Parole In 2007 Arson/Death Of Her Husband” by Dennis Norwood, The Chattanoogan “Kennedy v. Kohnle” justia.com YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 40+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

Hey, let's go to court listeners. Daryl Pitts here, also known as DP, also known as Kristen's dad. I just snuck into the sex dungeon slash recording studio. Patty, do not cut this under any circumstances. Also, don't let the ladies know that I'm doing this. I've got a huge concern before Kristen and Brandy start that one semester of whatever bullshit. concern before Kristen and Brandy start that one semester of whatever bullshit. You're all aware that Norman has been missing in action for months. I have not seen the guy. The weird thing is, is the excuses Kristen comes up with as to why he's not around. He didn't go to Obsess Fest because he was staying home to give medicine to a sick cat. Are you kidding me? If somebody came up with that excuse on the podcast

when they were covering a murder or something, they'd say, no way, get it out of here. But that's the only excuse she could come up with. I think we can all agree, Norman is no more. But here's the main concern. Ever since ObsessFest, no one has seen David. He may have met the same fate as Norman. We invited them over last week. We invited London, David, and Brandy over to our house. Okay, you think they're all three going to show up, right? Well, no. London's there. Brandy's there. David isn't there. I said, where's David, Brandy? She said he's put new product into his beard and he's got to stay out of the humidity for 48 hours. That's the only excuse she could come up with.

Thoughts and prayers for David. Also have a little concern about Tim Pounds, Brandy's dad. If there's anything that ever happens to Tim or to me, call the mayor and have him alert the FBI. Patty, do not cut this. One semester of law school. One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso.

I'm Brandi Egan. And I'm DP. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll be talking about a fire. And I'll be talking about Ira Bernstein who found himself in a very uncomfortable triangular... This is so long.

I did that last time. I don't ever write anything down. Okay, where do we start again? No, we're keeping that. We're keeping it. And I'm listening because it's my birthday. Happy birthday. Thank you.

Thank you. Kristen, what did your dad get you for your birthday? A case. You got me a couple days off work. A case? I was supposed to bring a case today? Everyone, he has told this joke four times today. I will wing it.

I will come up with something off the top of my head. I'm so glad. I watched a Dateline last night. I think I can remember some of it. You think you can remember most of the stuff from it? I'll remember some of it, yes. Excellent. Dad, we are very excited to have you on the podcast.

I'm happy to be here. I listened to last week's podcast, and I did hear a shout-out that DP was going to be in the house. I'm excited to be here. It's been like two years or I'm excited to be here. It's been like two years or something since I've been here. It was October 2020 that you were on last. Oh, was it that? It's so weird that you remember that.

That's when I had COVID. Oh, okay. Well, yeah. Yeah, I filled in for Brandy on COVID. I filled in for Brandy on some kind of pregnancy thing. Bullshit. And now she's getting married here in, what, a month or so. I'm assuming I'm going to have to fill in for that, too.

She's just always creating these life events. Meanwhile, I've never seen her child. She was at Disney World most of the time during her COVID scare. So I don't know what to believe. You know, I've got an HR background, and the excuses people come up with to get out of work are kind of amazing. And Brandy has done a good job with excuses because you want to go big or go home. That's right. Absolutely. I'm a professional bullshitter. You're doing well, Brandy. You're doing well. But hey, good to be back. And I'm excited to do the podcast again.

And I understand we're going to have some questions for DP. Ask an old white guy at the end. No one was interested. No. We've got no responses. Which is weird. But you know what we do have to do? An ad.

Darn right. Dad, why don't you plug our Patreon? Yeah. Yeah, pitch our Patreon for us. You support us on Patreon, don't you? I do not support you on Patreon. But however, Sherry and I are as one. Okay. And therefore, we support you at the highest level.

Is that a Spice Girls song about you? Stop it. Stop it. Spice Girls. Is this some new hip band that I've not heard of? It is. All the kids are listening to them. To the Spice Girls.

I remember you girls were doing Spice Girls back when you were in elementary school, right? We were professional Spice Girls impersonators. No one ever paid us for this. Okay, so Kristen, which one were you? Because I know there was Scary Spice. Ginger, hello. Ginger. And Brandy, you were?

Sporty Spice, obviously. Obviously, because of all your sportiness. Kyla was? Scary Spice. Scary Spice. And there was a fourth one. There were two more. There were two more.

How dare you? Baby Spice. Who did Baby Spice? Do we have to beep the name or something here? Probably. And then Posh Spice. Yes. Posh.

Which one's married to David Beckham? One of them's married. Posh. Posh.ice. Yes. Posh. Which one's married to David Beckham? One of them's married. Posh. Posh. Okay. Obviously. Yeah. You know, I don't know why I don't have a good memory of somebody I didn't pay that

much attention to 25 years ago. Oh, wow. Okay. What's weird is that none of this has to do with our Patreon. Yeah. Great job. Okay. So, yeah.

Patreon. I'm going to kind of go off some memory here. Yeah. There are different levels on the Patreon. I'm going to start at go off some memory here. There are different levels on the Patreon. I'm going to start at the top. The Bob Moss, I think, is the top level. Kristen, what all do you get at the Bob Moss level? That was a terrible plug.

You didn't have anything memorized. Okay, at the top level, you get episodes a day early, ad-free, and you get 10% off merch. Plus, you get everything that they get at the lower levels, which includes access to the Discord, bonus episodes every month. There are 37 of those. There's 40 of them. 40 of them. My gosh. Three bonus ones Brandi just threw in at the last minute. Also, you get a card with a sticker.

Sometimes it has my autograph. Sometimes it has Brandi. Sometimes it has my autograph. Sometimes it has Brandy's. Sometimes it has both. Oh, I heard some rumors about some people who were very unhappy about not getting that. I don't know what you're talking about. You also get monthly Zoom hangouts with us. Let's go back to the lack of signatures on some of the people's cards. We don't have time for that. We run a tight ship on this podcast, Dan.

Other than the signatures. Well, Dan, as you know, when I'm involved, it just really tightens it. Yeah. Okay. Hey, let's keep moving along. So we've got the Supreme Court level down below that. We already listed all the stuff you get at that level. Because you started at the top and when you join at the top, you get all the

bottom level stuff, too. Well, you need to start at the top. Why would anyone go for those bottom levels when you don't get the 10% off merch, you don't get the bonus episodes, you don't get into the Discord. Well, you get a lot of that stuff. You get some of that stuff. I wish I was in Discord. I used to be in Discord and I got kicked off for inappropriate.

Dad, you can afford it. I promise you. Inappropriate. Well, now you got to finish that. I got kicked off for inappropriate behavior. I'm not going to give any detail on that. Dad, you're an old white man. People are going to assume.

So you want me to say what I put on there that got me kicked off? No. Okay. Well, then I got kicked off for inappropriate behavior by the father of one of the podcasters. I got kicked off for inappropriate behavior by the father of one of the podcasters. You are the father of one of the podcasters. I know. That's what I'm saying. Maury Povich proved it.

Yes, right up in the air. We were on Maury Povich. You are the father. No. So amongst other things, you were also accepting friend requests on Facebook from randos. And we figured it was only a matter of time before someone sent you a webcam and you just set it up. Now, let me tell you, your listeners are not randos. They are all good, upstanding people.

Brandy's making faces. No, I'm sure they are. I'm sure they are. Brandy's making faces. No, I'm sure they are. I'm sure they are. And I did get that webcam, and I hooked it up, and they asked me—well, I can't get into what they asked me to do, but— Oh, no. Anyway, sign up for our Patreon. That's patreon.com slash lgtcpodcast. And go to OnlyFans to get Dad's webcam.

Have you considered an OnlyFans to get Dad's webcam. Have you considered an OnlyFans? You know, when I heard the money those ladies were making. Dudes, too, can make money on there. Can a 64-year-old bald white guy make money? First time for everything. Yeah. Time to find out. Maybe that's a certain fetish that people have is old white men that are bald.

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. fetish that people have is old white men that are bald uh-huh uh-huh see the problem is is that you also have to be rich which you check that box but you have to be willing to part with some of that money so what what what you make money old white guy oh that's not what he has in mind situation oh no no he wants to be the object of lust. Oh. That's what my father is trying to tell us right now. That's how the ladies and I guess the guys are making money. Sure.

They're not. You're thinking I'm going to go on there and prostitute myself in some way? Is that what you're thinking, Brandy? No, she's thinking you're going to have to give money away for people to be interested in you. Brandy, are you serious? Hey, there is a fetish for everything. Are you looking at this man? Sorry, I apologize.

Just look at me. You're right. You know, we've talked in the past about who people confuse me for. Jimmy Garoppolo is who people think I look like now. No, they do not. For those of you, like Kristen, who don't know who Jimmy Garoppolo is. I keep thinking you're saying Janine Garoppolo. Are you saying I look more like Janine Garoppolo?

Jimmy Garoppolo. Okay, I'm looking him up. Oh, my God. He's a good-looking guy. See, Kristen, that's my definition of a good-looking guy. Yeah, he's very good-looking. Shereri tells me I look a lot like Jimmy Garoppolo. Now, that's, of course, he's like 28 years old.

So that's what I looked like when I was 28. This is what – How old were you when you got married? I was 23. OK. He was kind of a child bride situation. Yeah. He was a child bride.

I've seen your wedding picture and you had quite a ways to go to get to Jimmy Garoppolo. Five years. Again, he's 28. Five years to get there. Yeah. That's quite a ways to go to get to Jimmy Garoppolo. Five years. Again, he's 28. If I just did the stubble shave thing that the guys are doing and I parted my hair like Jimmy parts his hair on the side and did a little spray tan. Did you still have the fro when you were 28? No, I kind of tamed that thing down. I'm sorry.

I took us off on a tangent. I don't know how I got on Jimmy Garoppolo. Well, you started fantasizing about making money off him and busting after you. And Brandy tried to burst your bubble, but you didn't quite understand. I apologize for trying to bring you down, DP. Should we talk about a fire? Let's do it. Yeah.

I'm ready. Okay. Shout outs to an episode of American Monster that I watched about this case and an episode of an Oxygen show that I will not name at this current moment. Those... Snapped. You know, those Oxygen bitches,

they give it away in the title. They give it away in the title, don't they? They do. They always do. Their shows are named way too specifically. It's gotta to be sad. So when I said Oxygen Bitches, you were a little surprised. I'm going to try to join you guys in dragging my language down into the gutter with the two of you. I was surprised when I heard you say bullshit earlier.

I was too. See, I'm going for it. I mean, we were out of the room when you said that. Oh, yeah. Whoops. Oh, boy. That ruined the whole thing right there. All down. That Patty. whole thing. All right. Forth that, Patty.

Wall down. That Patty. My goodness. All right. Here we go. Jim Conley was living his best life. And just so everybody knows how much I struggled with this last name, I will spell it for you. It is spelled K-O-H-N-L-E.

And it is pronounced Conley. Wow. That's the wrong spelling. C-O-N-N-E-L-L-E. And it is pronounced Conley. Wow. That's the wrong spelling. C-O-N-N-E-L-L-Y. Yeah. How about that? Yes. He was the grandson of Fred Conley, the founder of Monarch Marking Systems.

Ever heard of it? No. Me either. But they invented one of the first price tag machines. Oh, shit. So Jim had been born into an affluent family, but he made the decision not to go into the family business. Instead, he became a chiropractor and started his own practice in northern Georgia. Dr. Jim, as I'm going to assume he was known, no source said that, but I like the way it sounds, was really well respected as a chiropractor. Bonnie White, who was a friend of Jim's and worked at his practice for some time, said, when he worked on you, you felt good just being around him.

Jim was the kindest, most gentle man you'll ever meet in your life. was the kindest, most gentle man you'll ever meet in your life. Jim's practice was super successful, and with the growth of his business, he needed more staff. So Jim hired 21-year-old Teresa Boggs to work the front desk. She was beautiful and bubbly, and despite the fact that she was 20 years younger than jim and that jim was her boss they started dating and before long they were in nerve hey i don't see anything wrong with this at all i don't you say it's only a 20 20 20 age gap. That's not a problem in my book. Not a problem at all. Kristen, any thoughts from you?

So many thoughts. And you know them all. So here we go. Yeah. In 1996, they welcomed their first child. Ew. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

She's still working there? Yeah. Okay, well, that's dumb. That really jumped ahead there. I thought – The point of marrying a rich old dude is you don't have to work anymore. Yeah. Well, he's not that old.

He's like 40. Are they married though? Still, he could be her dad. At this point, they are not married. They had the child out of wedlock. What kind of dumb hoe would do that? Right, Dad? Am I right?

I don't like to use the word hoe. It sounds a little sexist. But it does apply in this situation. Am I right? A smart hoe would have made him marry her, and she's not signing a prenup, folks. We're not signing the prenup. Is this guy, like, chiropractors, do they make, like, big, big money? They make pretty good money.

They make decent money. But they're not making, like, half a million a year. Hold on. When you officiate Brandy and David's wedding, are you going to call them dumb hoes? I don't think so. I have to say that I was expressly asked for my permission to use the term ho-face in my wedding ceremony. No, no. He does not have permission.

Hey, it's part of the story. The ho-face fail. It's not just ho-face. It's ho-face fail. I said he could do it. Yeah, it's going to happen, Christy. Brandy, you're a mess. All right.

Okay. Okay, so in 1996, they welcomed their first child, a son, who they named Caleb. And the next year, they welcomed their first child, a son who they named Caleb. And the next year they got married. Somewhere in there, Teresa got her certification as a massage therapist. And together, Jim and Teresa, I guess he closed down his other practice. And together they opened Alpha Wellness Center. Alpha? Alpha.

Okay. And this is massages and chiropractic services in one. Correct. Correct. But like massage therapy. Oh. They're not giving hand jobs in the back room. Oh, that's what I thought it was.

Oh, my God. You know, we used to drive by this place and it says massage therapy on the outside. It's over in Shawnee. Probably not very far from where you live, Brand want to dox me and Sherry was always oh sketchy sketchy sketchy I said Sherry it's massage therapy yeah but we did notice that during the day there wasn't a whole lot of business in there but later at night it's sometimes 10 11 o'clock at night yeah yeah there would still be cars in the parking lot so yeah i get so there's a difference between massage parlor and massage therapy but here's the thing all the guys who went there said they loved it so yeah so they opened their

practice together jim practiced holistic chiropractic care, and Teresa offered massage therapy. And their wellness center thrived. The little family couldn't have been more thrilled. In 2000, Jim and Teresa welcomed their second child, a daughter they named Allison. And with the family being bigger, they needed a bigger house. So they moved to Ringgold, Georgia. so they moved to Ringgold, Georgia. I don't know anything about Ringgold but I do like the name of it and it's got a double G in the middle

so I enjoyed that as well. Anyway, the house they bought wasn't like massive by any means and so yeah, I think he made good money but he wasn't pulling in like you said. He's making six figures, we'll say. Probably. Yeah. So it was like a 2,000 square foot home, four beds, three baths, I think. As far as I can

tell, it was on some acreage and they had like a big pool in the backyard and it had like an outbuilding. So, you know, nice, nice little place. And it worked well for the family. Jim would often wake the kids up in the morning and take them out to swim before they had to leave for school. And the kids had more than they could ever want or need. Christmases and birthdays were a huge deal in the Conley home. Caleb was interviewed on both of these shows, actually. And he recalled that, like, no matter what he asked for, his mom and dad always seemed to make it happen.

That's a good recipe for raising a kid. Giving them whatever they want. That's how, Kristen, you were raised that way. Oh, yeah. Well, except for the Barbie Jeep. You got everything you wanted, right? You know, I did get a lot of what I wanted, but yeah, that Barbie Jeep still

stinks. Uh-huh. Got it for the granddaughter, though, didn't they? Sure did. And then the grandson got his own, too, because you know. Yeah. Uh-huh. And then she got a motorized vehicle when she turned six. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Altogether, it was an idyllic life. Hey, Brandi, can I interrupt? Yeah. I got a question. This guy was 40 when they got married and met and everything. Yeah.

Do we have a previous wife hanging around? I didn't find much about his life before this time. Surely there's some sketchy stuff going on between when he was 20 and when he turned 40. No info on it, though. I mean, it's possible, but maybe don't talk shit about him because he's going to die. Yeah, because it was for sure snapped. Oh, it snapped always the woman kills the man. Yeah, it's always the woman snaps and kills the dude.

Well, can't men snap? I know, but not on oxygen. Not on oxygen. Oh. Those oxygen bitches don't let men snap. Bitches and bitches don't let men stand. Around this time, while, you know, life was really going well for the Conleys, one of Jim's sisters recalled a moment where she was talking on the phone with her brother and he got really choked up. He told her that he was living his dream life.

The kids, the house, the wife, the business, the whole deal. It was the life he'd always dreamed of. I like had a moment when I saw this, this part of this show. This was on the American Monster episode because I literally had a moment like this, like two weeks ago where I was standing in the hallway of my house watching David and London change the laundry over. Like London was literally taking the stuff out of the washing machine and throwing it as hard as she could in the dryer. And David was like, great job, baby.

You're doing great. It was just so sweet. And I was just watching them and I was like, never in my wildest dreams did I imagine this would be my life. Yeah. Yeah. And so I definitely, I understand this moment that he shared with his sister. Do you feel like you're about to get murdered?

No. That is really sweet. This isn't going to happen to him though. He's not going to get murdered, is he? I don't know. Is he? Oh, OK. OK.

I guess we'll find out. Brandi, thanks for sharing. That's cool to hear that you're – Yeah, I'm 100 percent living my dream life. Yeah. Better than my dream life. That's cool. That's cool.

Yeah. So he's living his dream life. Everything is going the way he wants it to. But a short time later, Jim's health started to decline. He was tired all the time. He no longer had the energy to take the kids swimming in the mornings. Instead, he would sleep, stay in bed late. On Christmas, he was no longer like down on the floor, passing out the presents in the mix of it with the kids. Instead, he sat on the couch, barely awake, barely participating in the festivities. Initially, Jim thought that this fatigue was the result of maybe being overworked and stressed about the business. But no amount of rest seemed to help him or give him any kind of relief.

So eventually he went to the doctor and he was diagnosed with Lyme disease. So Lyme disease is a tick-borne illness. It's caused, it's transferred to humans by bacteria in ticks that you're exposed to during a tick bite or from a tick bite. You know what I'm saying. Anyway. I don't. We got you. The tick bites the person?

The tick bites the person. That's what I'm saying. The person bites the tick. No. No people are biting ticks. Ticks biting people. Transferring bacteria that then as a result causes Lyme disease. But, you know, to get even sometimes, if I find a tick on me, I bite it.

That sounds disgusting. Well, you've, to get even sometimes, if I find a tick on me, I bite it. That sounds disgusting. Well, you've got to get even. And he sucks on it until he kind of expands. Blooms up. Am I the only one doing this? I mean, I'm sure you think so. No, I'm not. No.

No, the listeners are doing it. I mean, you're out in the woods a lot. You get ticks on you? Absolutely. No, we've got to. Not since he started biting back. Yeah, word gets around— He just has a shirt that he wears when he's out there.

I bite back. The tick community— Keeps the neighbors away, too. No, the tick community is aware of me now, and they do not mess with DP. No, but really, you've been clear in that area with the pond? Oh, yeah, yeah. You got ticks out there? We've got special laundry detergent that—and this is serious.

No, I believe it. No, it's not laundry detergent – and this is serious. No, I believe it. No, it's not laundry detergent. You wash your clothes and then you spray it with this stuff and you can wash them like 20 more times. It doesn't come off. And it doesn't come off. And you can do this – you obviously do it with – I mean socks, underwear, everything. And it really cuts them down. Probably you want it on your underwear the most.

You do. Those little beggars. And that's where it's hard to bite. That's want it on your underwear the most. You do. Those little beggars. And, you know, that's where it's hard to bite. That's where it's hard to bite them. You get them down there near the underwear, it's damn near impossible. Sounds like you need to do some yoga. He's been working so hard on his flexibility. Do you sing that song to Sheree right after you come in and you need her to check you for tics?

What's that country song, Kristen? Check you for tics. Brad Paisley. Yeah. I want to check you for tics. You know what? The musical references on this show are top notch. Top notch.

So far beyond my knowledge base. Yeah. I mean, they're dated, but they're not dated enough. No, they're not. I've missed it. So Lyme disease is curable if you catch it soon enough, but you have to catch it like within 30 days to, and then it's just treated by antibiotics, like a long course of antibiotics, usually two to four weeks.

But Jim was sick for months before he ever sought treatment. And so his more advanced symptoms, his fatigue, his lethargy, some other stuff, like it can cause brain swelling and all kinds of stuff. And that stuff, if it goes untreated, is irreversible. And so the effects of Jim's Lyme disease were irreversible. And yeah, it was bad. It was bad. Jim had to cut back at work.

He initially cut down to four days a week. But even then, sometimes he would be scheduled for patients and he just couldn't get out of bed. And so he'd try and call like a substitute chiropractor to take over his patients for the day, but it wasn't always possible. And so some days the practice just couldn't open. Did they ever catch the tick who bit him? Yeah. I don't believe so. They put up posters.

Did they catch the wife who was poisoning him this whole time? Where did she get the ticks? That's what I want to know. She had a box of ticks. She went down the woods. Framing ticks. What if she hadn't intentionally done it, but then when he came in and was like, can you check me for ticks where I can't reach?

She saw one, but she was just like, yeah, the long con. Yeah, no, you're good. Wink, wink. Uh-huh. You think it was one of those situations? I think she not only saw him, she was putting him on him where he couldn't see him. Oh, okay. Do you think we're giving Sheree Ray ideas right now?

No, here's the deal with Sheree Ray. She always takes good care of me. Like if I start feeling sick or something, she is. She's a nurse. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So she's not going to like start pushing this stuff to the side. She is taking care of me. Yeah.

In any circumstance, Shereire is out there for me. I am glad to see that you made it here today and you survived the night on Sunday. Oh, after you came over on Sunday? Pizza incident. Pizzagate. Yeah. That's what we call it. Should we talk about Pizzagate?

I think we should. I thought there was a real possibility you weren't making it through that night, DP. Tell the people what you did. Well, here's the deal. So Sherry is like 99.9 percent of the time in charge of food. Yeah. And so I kind of just – She's like a professional hostess.

Well, and I blow it off. And I'm like, OK, I don't have to do it. I clean up. That's my deal. Clean up. Well, I do recall in defense of Sheree Ray, her saying, why don't you get some pizzas? Yeah. She left you in charge.

Where did she go, in fact? She dropped Jay and the kids home. Oh, OK. Where did she go? OK. the kids home oh okay okay so i sat there and i'm brandy i'm gonna throw you and david under the no that's okay actually yes you can go ahead say say what we said brandy would you like you said you said to the group should we order some pizzas and david and i were like, no, no, no, that's not necessary at all. But you know what Norm said? I could eat some pizza.

What'd I do? Did I ignore Norman? Yes. Because money was at stake. Was Norman even there? Yes, Norm was there! He was right next to you. Oh, oh, we're messing up his bit from the beginning. Seriously, seriously, why wasn't

Norman there? Anyway, so Sheree Ray came home from doing God knows what. Yeah, wherever she'd wandered off to. Doing God's work out there in the community. And it was about what time at night? It was 7 p.m.

And there was no food. We usually eat around 10, so this is really early for me. And she was devastated to find that there were guests in her home and there was no food being served to them. So she whipped up some grilled cheese sandwiches. It was way better than pizza. It was delicious. And we made it through it. Here's the deal.

Dad, maybe she didn't want to make grilled cheeses. Maybe she wanted a night off from cooking. And just wanted to enjoy pizza that you had procured for everyone. She's not getting out of it. So, yeah, here's the deal. You would have thought, in fact, I was a little concerned when you guys left. Yeah, you should have been. I was concerned that something bad could happen to me.

I told you to go to that panic room. That's an interesting fact. In this new house we have, we have a literal panic room with a safe room door on it. Yep. And Sherry does not know the combination. So I could go in there and she might somehow bolt me in there so I can't get out. I was going to say, real fast. Real fast.

Yes. No. So when you guys left, Norm and I were there with my mom and dad. And, you know, Norm and I caught the first half of the lecture, which was when people come over to your house and it exceeds a certain time and night, you just get food. You just and they you may ask them and they'll say, oh, no, no, no, that's not necessary. Doesn't matter.

You do it anyway. You do it. You ask them what kind of pizza they like. Maybe they don't. They won't even say you get cheese and you get pepperoni. Everybody's happy. Like she she walked him through. So after that Home Economics 101 lesson I got, I will never make that mistake again.

Very good. I'm glad you could learn this lesson at 64. Actually, I've got a birthday coming up here in about two months, three months. So I'm pretty excited. What are you guys going to do for my birthday? I think I'll ask people if they want some pizza. What if they say yes? I'll just pretend I don't hear them.

Back to your story, Brady. Okay, so Jim is cutting back at work. Some days he's unable to get out of bed. Some days they can't open the practice. And so the family's finances suffered. Somewhere along the way as well, Teresa found out that she was pregnant with the couple's third child. And they were really excited about this. Despite Jim's health issues, like this was a blessing to them.

They were very excited. But then Teresa suffered a late-term miscarriage she was like five and a half months oh god she was diagnosed with placenta previa where the placenta covers the cervix and so they determined that the baby could not survive in those conditions and so they did an emergency C-section and the baby didn't survive. Is it anything related to his Lyme disease that caused this? No, unrelated. This is unrelated. Okay. But after she suffered this loss, she was unable to work for some time while she recovered. And so with the two of them, neither of them being able to work,

the family's finances really suffered. The family's cars were repossessed. One of the shows mentioned that the only reason they were able to even have food to eat was because there was a locally owned grocery store that really liked the family and they allowed them to have a line of credit for food and never asked them to pay it down. Yeah, or else they wouldn't have even had food to eat. So I'm going to throw in a little DP advice here. You shouldn't be living so close to the edge financially that a short-term illness – and I know this is probably going to turn into a long-term illness – puts you under to where you lose everything and can't even put food on the table. So quick little tidbit, DP advice, have at least six months to a year of living expenses in your bank account.

Thank you, Dave Ramsey. I also have advice. Okay, what do you have? Be rich. Don't be poor. Exactly. Don't be poor and stupid. Why weren't they rich and smart instead of poor and stupid?

That's what we're all asking ourselves, Dash. So they had found themselves in basically a side of life that they were not accustomed to. By late June of 2007, though, Teresa was ready to go back to work. But the family no longer had a car. They'd been just using rental cars, which is super expensive. Oh, wow. And so she's like, I can't pay to have, like, whenever they needed a car, they'd just rent a car. But if she's needing a car every day for work, like, they couldn't afford that.

And so Teresa's parents agreed to help her out by giving them a car so that they could stop paying for the rental cars. stop paying for the rental cars. And so on June 29, 2007, Teresa's friend, Robin, agreed to drive Teresa and the kids two hours away to Knoxville, Tennessee to pick up that car. So that morning, Teresa and the two kids

get in the car with Robin and they drop the younger daughter off at a babysitter because she didn't want to do the whole car ride or whatever. She was like six years old. And so they drop her off and then Caleb,

the older child, and Teresa and her friend make the drive to Knoxville. So they're maybe on the road for 90 minutes when they get a phone call. They are alerted that a driver was passing their house at approximately 9.40 that morning and saw smoke.

And so they alerted firefighters. And when firefighters arrived at the house, they went inside. The fire was burning pretty strongly at that point. Visibility was super low inside the house. pretty strongly at that point. Visibility was super low inside the house. They used like thermal imaging to go in the house and see if anybody was inside. And when they reached the primary bedroom of the house, they found Jim Connolly dead from smoke inhalation in the bedroom. So on the call that Teresa answers on this drive, she is told your husband has died in a fire and they have to pull over the car. She's devastated. She tells her son that his father

is dead. And they. I'm surprised they give that news over the phone. I am too. Yeah, that's that's turn around, come back. Yeah. Something has happened. We need you to get back here as quickly as possible. Yes. And then in person, you deliver that information. But according to both of these shows, they delivered that information over the phone. I believe that it happened. I just don't like it.

Yeah, I don't like it either. So they come back to town and almost immediately an arson investigation begins. So I think this is kind of standard operating procedure. So somebody died in the fire, so they need to make sure that it was of a natural origin or whatever. They bring in like this little special dog named Smokey. Oh, that's cute. Yes. And he is specifically an arson investigation dog that is trained to alert on accelerants.

So they're walking him through the house and pretty quickly he alerts in a location that they had already determined was the start of the fire. It had started in an area that was like in the kitchen. It was like kind of off the kitchen, but they used it as an office. And the fire, they determined, had started there. There was a candle in the area, so maybe a candle had been left burning. Did they insult Smokey because they already knew that?

Right! Yeah, a lot of good Smokey did. We know that already. A lot of Smokey. Like, Smokey, we already fucking knew it started there. God. But then he's like, oh, I'm the goodest boy. And also the accelerant was used here. And so this particular spot in the kitchen where this office area was, backed directly to the primary bedroom.

And so they were like, okay, so this fire was set intentionally with accelerant. And there was a person potentially sleeping in this bedroom. When they found him, Jim was no longer in bed. Teresa had told the police that when she left, Jim was still in bed. When they found him, he was like kneeling next to the bed. And they found burn marks on the bottoms of his feet. They believed that he had tried to stamp out the fire as it spread into the bedroom.

Yeah. And then it kind of like collapsed to the ground. Yeah. So it was clear like within the day that this was an arson. This was not an accidental fire. I say that that was determined within a day, but they didn't bring Teresa in for questioning

until July 5th. So maybe they allowed her to have the funeral and all of that. And then July 5th, they asked Teresa to come down and give them an exact chronology of what happened on June 29th, what time she left the house, all of that. of that. So in that interview, she says that at the time that this fire happened, that she and Jim were having financial difficulties, that, you know, Jim had been suffering from Lyme disease for several years at this point and that they'd fallen behind on their mortgage. Their house was like 30 days from getting foreclosed on. Both of their cars had been repossessed and that things were just super stressful. But she said their marriage was good. They loved each other very much. Did it ever occur to them to not live that way?

Why weren't they rich again? Did you answer that question, Brandi? Dad, it's very important to have the boomer perspective on the podcast. We're glad to have you here. You two bringing that millennial energy, that's not working all the time. Do you ever think about the older generation? I do. I think about what you guys paid to go to college. I think about a lot of things. It was hard.

It was hard back then, Kristen. Brandy. Yeah. Question about these finances. back then, Kristen. Brandy. Yeah. Question about these finances.

Is there something that might help this situation get all the stuff paid off and put them back on sound financial footing? Are you talking about like some life insurance or maybe some homeowner's insurance that maybe a fire where someone dies might pay both of those? Well, no, I wasn't. I wasn't thinking about that at all. Because, you know, if you don't have enough money to eat, you're probably not paying life insurance premiums or homeowners insurance premiums. Interesting that you should say that because they did have both of those things. They had both of them.

There was a problem. That's where the money was going. Jim had a $500,000 life insurance policy. Ah, there we go. I thought it was going to be more, so okay. Teresa was the beneficiary of. Uh-huh. So, yeah.

She got the best she could afford, Dad. So she's, you know, sitting down with investigators and she tells them, I loved my husband more than life itself. But she said that he'd been having troubles. He'd been really stressed. He'd been dealing with depression as a result of his disease. And did they interview the boyfriend at all? There was no boyfriend. Oh, I missed that one.

I took a big swing early and missed. So they get this initial story from her. She talks about the timeline a little bit. She says she can't be sure exactly what time they left that day, but, you know, it was no later than 830. Couldn't possibly have been any later than 830 a.m. She said they got in the car. They went and picked up some Chick-fil-A for breakfast. And then they dropped Allison off at the babysitter's.

And then they hit the road for Knoxville. And so just for good measure, they talked to Teresa's friend, Robin, who was the one who was driving that day, and she said she couldn't be sure either what time they left that day, but she was pretty sure it was about 845. Okay. Ballpark. That's not that bad.

It's not that bad. That's a ballpark. It's not that bad. It's not that bad. That's a ballpark. It's not that bad. So then they decided to look into some surveillance footage at the Chick-fil-A. So they determined that this fire had started right around 9 a.m. based on the amount of damage that had occurred by the time they got there at 9.42 a.m. And they determined that it had started at 9.42 a.m. And they determined that it had started at 9. So by Teresa and Robin's timelines, like, okay,

they would have been gone by the time this fire started. So when they get to the Chick-fil-A footage, they find Teresa. So they drove Teresa's rental car to pick up this other car. And so they find footage of this silver PT cruiser that Teresa was driving as a rental car come through the Chick-fil-A drive-thru at 9.17 a.m. That was a half hour away from the house, it sounds like. About 10 minutes from the house. Oh, 10 minutes.

About 10 minutes. 10 minutes. For the want of Chick-fil-A, she messed it up. For the want of Chick-fil-A, she messed it up. I mean, Chick-fil-A is delicious chicken, but that really pulled her down. Yeah. It's not great. It's not great.

Did the detective lean over the table and say, was it worth it? Was it worth it? So now they're like, well, shit. Like she absolutely had time to be there and set the fire and get out of there before. So it was just like a passerby who saw smoke coming out of the house that called the police. And so they're trying to work to put this together. And they get a phone call from this guy named Tom Drew, who is an insurance agent. He happens to be Jim's insurance agent. And he said that he just he had heard about Jim's death.

In fact, he'd gotten a call wondering how to claim his life insurance from Teresa on the day that Jim had died. At 9.30 in the morning. Right. She still had the chip playing around. Yeah, exactly. And he said, hey, Jim, it's me. He said, hey, I just want to let you know a couple of things.

First of all, I got this phone call from Jim's wife. You know, seems like maybe she's calling a little fast. written letter, like a last will and testament written by Jim, making sure that Teresa was the beneficiary on all of his insurance policies. And he said in this letter that he was contemplating suicide. Who dropped this letter off? That's a good question. I did read in one article that this insurance agent told the detectives that he didn't think there was any reason to believe that Teresa knew about this letter. I would disagree, but it seems very convenient. With this information, the investigators were like, never, ever have we heard of a case where someone would choose to die by suicide by dying in a fire.

Yeah, that's a terrible. Exactly. And by this time, they had had done a full autopsy and determined that he had died of smoke inhalation. So he was alive. Yeah. When the fire was burning. And they're like, that like, that's a stretch. There's way easier ways to do this.

What they also discovered in his autopsy was that he had antidepressants in his system and also sedatives. Oh. Maybe like large amounts of sedatives. Well, you know, we all take a couple sedatives every morning, don't we? Sedatives that had not been prescribed to him. Cool, yeah. Where'd those come from? Do we know where those came from?

Well, I mean, I think we can all guess where they came from. I can't. I'm very slow. And so they talked to a forensic psychologist and they were like, that forensic psychologist was like, none of this adds up. Like, no, this is not a suicide. This was a homicide.

And so Jim's death was ruled a homicide. And so around this same time, investigators are talking to other people in Jim and Teresa's life. They talked to the other employees at the Alpha Wellness Center. And they did learn, you're going to like this, DP, that Teresa had maybe been having some affairs. Brandy, when I said something about that earlier, you acted like it was the craziest cockamamie story

you'd ever heard in your life. And now we're finding out it happened. Okay, here's the deal. There were just rumors of infidelity. Yeah. But it was like kind of those things that like everybody knew that Teresa had been kind of sleeping around and that had been going on for quite some time. And, yeah, it's not great. And, yeah, it's not great.

So with all of this additional information, they then go back and they do further searches of the Conley home. And they had done the arson investigation in the home, but they at this point hadn't had search warrants to search other parts of the home. So there'd been like outbuildings on the property. OK. And as part of the arson investigation, that part of the property was not touched by the fire. So it wasn't included in the investigation. It was only after they had determined or had labeled Jim's death a homicide that they were able to secure search warrants to search those other parts of the property. And when they searched that outbuilding, boy, did they find some stuff. Like all of the family's personal belongings

neatly stacked up. Gotta save those photographs. And just like all of the kids clothing and bags and baskets out there. This is so stupid. Yep. They also discovered

that there had been divorce papers drawn up that had never been filed. So Teresa's story that their marriage was perfect and happy and they were just dealing with life circumstances that they've never dealt with before wasn't matching up with the evidence here. Right. And so they decided it was time to sit down with Teresa again. Right. pain medicine and sedatives to deal with the recovery of that. And that she had begun, maybe she had maybe become dependent on them and had begun. There was some kind of substance use disorder stuff going on. And to support that habit, she was embezzling money from the business as well. So the business manager or like the office manager had actually approached her about this. There were 16 checks one month that Teresa had written to herself.

And when the office manager was trying to balance everything, she confronted Teresa about these checks. And Teresa was like, oh, those are voided checks. Those are voided checks. And the office manager was like, well, no, because voided checks don't clear the bank. And here's the statement where these checks have cleared the bank account. And she tried to brush it off. And, you know, but it seemed that Teresa was embezzling money from the account. How much had she taken?

I don't know. I never saw a figure. Well, and it's time to fire this business manager. Really? She's just too damn nosy. Well, no. What an awkward situation. Hey, let's just too damn nosy. Well, no. What an awkward situation. Hey, let's sit and talk about this.

Well, seriously, imagine this business manager. You're confronting a co-owner. Yeah. I mean, she and Jim own this business. And you're confronting – and at first you're probably just thinking, I've got to figure out where these checks went. You're probably assuming that they weren't for personal purposes. But then when she starts with the voided check, then you know it is.

Yeah. So surely this lady got fired, right? I don't know. I mean I assume the practice was shut down with the doctor being murdered and all. That does slow the business, doesn't it? Yeah. They still had the massage thing going. Yeah.

But she was under suspicion of murder, so. So she might not be available either. Okay. So when they talked to some of the other employees of this business, they also learned that Dr. Jim had confided in them that he thought he was being drugged. Dr. Jim had confided in them that he thought he was being drugged. And when they did those blood tests during the autopsy, they found high amounts of lithium in his system. That was the sedative that was in his system. And so he had specifically told someone within the practice that he feared that Teresa had been drugging his coffee in the morning, that she had been intentionally sedating him, making his illness worse.

So I never really found confirmation in any articles that really, did Jim really have Lyme disease or was he really just being poisoned the whole time or were both going on? Yeah. To me, I think it's possible both were going on. Yeah. That Teresa maybe saw the effects of his Lyme disease and how much easier it was to get away with her shenanigans, having affairs and stuff.

And she wanted that to continue. And so maybe she began drugging him. But that's purely speculation. Yeah. Talk it out my ass here. I wish you would stop doing that. Yeah. And, you know, you've got Kristen's.

You could talk out of Christians. You could upgrade at any time, Brandy. Yeah. So once they uncovered all of this information, they decided it was time for Teresa to come in and have another interview. And this time she agreed to take a polygraph test. Oh.

So what's interesting is that in Georgia, I have a real problem with this, but this is the law in Georgia. Polygraph tests are admissible in court. Oh, that's stupid. Is that still? I believe so. Yes.

So she sits down to do this polygraph test. They ask her if she had anything to do with Jim's death, if she had planned the fire, if she had anything to do with setting the fire. It had anything to do with setting the fire. And according to someone on one of these episodes that talked about the results of this, I have a real problem with this, too, but we'll get there in a second. They said, quote, the computer indicated her level of deception was in excess of 100 percent. That makes no fucking sense. It can't be more than 100%. She could lie the entire time and it cannot be in excess of 100%. Okay, but think about this.

This is Georgia. They don't know math. Shout out to all our listeners in Georgia. We think you're 100% great. So they don't waste any time. They literally do this test and then they sit down with her and let her know the results. And they let her know she failed miserably. She lied the entire time.

In excess of 100% of the time, she lied. Wait a minute. I got an idea. Yeah. They ask her a question. She tells two lies. That's 200%. That's 200%. That's 200%.

Okay. All right. He majored in econ. And so they sit her down. They tell her this, and she's silent for a moment. And then she says, he wanted to die. What she should have said was, I think I need a lawyer. Right.

Exactly. She should have said that before she agreed to take the polygraph altogether. But yeah. Yeah. So she said he wanted to die. And they're like, say more. Where's this going? And she said, he told me he wanted to die.

He told me to leave the house and not ask any more questions. I was thinking she was going to admit that she set the fire. So she did not admit setting the fire. At this point, she did not. She did later say that she lit a candle under his instructions, lit two candles under his instructions, and then left the house. Under the flammable paper instructions? Yeah. And so they're like, okay.

And she said, you know, I didn't want this to come out. I would rather spend the rest of my life in prison for something that I did not do. Oh, boy. Than to let anybody know that Jim was having these thoughts. Okay. Brandy, what? I mean, you're going to get an Academy Award for that. You were.

The only thing I wish is I wish people could have seen your expression. Thank you. I think the thoughts came through that microphone so clearly. The emotion that you had. Man, you nailed it. So they're like, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, cool, great, awesome. So he wanted to die. Wonderful.

Okay. So also let's talk about some phone calls you made. You were alerted that the fire had happened and that Jim had died, and your very first phone call was your insurance agent. I was suspecting it was going to be one of the boyfriends, but okay. Insurance agent. That's even worse. That doesn't strike you as a bit strange?

And she said, you know, I know he did it. I can't prove he did it, but I can. And, you know, I can't prove that I didn't did it. I can't prove he did it, but I can. I can. And, you know, I can't prove that I didn't do it, but I know that I didn't do it. Oh, my goodness. Stop. You got to stop. Yep. So at that point on July 9th, 2007, Teresa Conley was charged with felony murder and first degree arson for the death of James Conley.

Following her arrest, the kids were taken into protective custody. They did eventually, I think, go live with Jim's father. But initially they were taken into protective family and children's services. And while they were in the custody of family and children's services, they were questioned about the events the day that their father died. And Caleb said something really interesting. He said that that morning they had gotten in the car, loaded up to go to Chick-fil-A, and then dropped the sister off at the babysitter's. But he said something that had never been mentioned before. He said as his mom came out of the house, got in the car, and they started to back out of the driveway, he noticed smoke coming from the house.

And he said, Mama, look, I think the house is on fire. And she had said, No, I'm just burning some papers in the backyard something that they did fairly regularly apparently and so Caleb had said you know that was something they had done and so he just believed his mom that that is what was going on that day when in fact obviously she had started the fire before they left and that her 11-year-old son had seen the fire burning before they even got out of the driveway. So they were all set to go to trial in December of 2010 with Teresa facing felony. They actually adjusted the charges.

There was felony murder and there was malice murder that she was charged with because they believed that she had intentionally set this fire to cause harm to Jim Conley. But things weren't going real well for the defense. But things weren't going real well for the defense. As I mentioned, lie detector tests are admissible in court in Georgia. And her defense attorney, whose name was McCracken, by the way. Hell yeah. His first name. Phil.

His first name was McCracken. No. Oh, I thought his first name. His first name was McCracken and he went by Ken. I mean, yeah. I think that's a cool name. I do, too. I would make everybody call me McCracken. Yeah.

What was his last name? I can't remember, and I didn't write it down. I thought for sure I'd remember it. I'm so sorry. I got in so much trouble with my mother-in-law, God rest her soul, for making it. They had friends named McCracken, and so she's talking about Mr. McCracken and I just offhandedly said is his first name Phil?

And Sherry is not happy that I've made this joke. Her mom doesn't put two and two together to know what it is. But so I said well seriously what's his first name? And she tells me his first name. I said I was really thinking it was Phil.

I knew a Phil McCracken one time. Sherry was not happy with me. And then other members of the family who at first thought it was funny decided that I was the bad guy and I wasn't obviously. Obviously. Yeah. His name is McCracken Poston. Well, that's too much. That's a good Southern name.

It's a great name, but he went by Ken. Yeah, okay. So they're all poised to go to trial. It's moving towards the trial, which is scheduled for December of 2010. But the defense is not feeling great about their case. They've got the phone calls to the insurance agent right after she finds out Jim's dead. They've got the timeline that doesn't match what she gave. They've got Caleb's testimony that he saw the fire burning before they'd ever left the house.

And they've got, you know, it's just not good. It's not good at all. And so they, sir. Sir. It's not good at all. And so they – sir. Is this funny? Are you making a statement about lunch today? No, no.

I was sitting here realizing my phone is not on silent. And not a single person has called you. Well, and that's the amazing thing. I am extremely popular. Yes, we all know. So popular. And so I thought I better go in here and surely nobody will make a comment when I pull my phone out and set it on silent.

You know, silencing a phone is... Yeah, you didn't just put it on silent. You're like flipping through Facebook or something over there. There's a way easier way to put it in silent than... My fingerprint, for some reason, wouldn't open it up. Oh, okay. You know, I should have laid down some rules, some ground rules before this started that

I would not be made fun of because things are not going well. We're not making fun of you. I'm just calling out bad behavior. Well, see, I feel responsible for my bad behavior. I know I shouldn't. And that's not fair. I know I shouldn't. Because I know it's not bad behavior. Dad, do you want to roast her a little for her behavior

at lunch? How many things did she do at lunch, though? I mean, you're going to have to remind me which one. She's just constantly on her phone. I did look at my phone in the middle of a conversation. You go out to lunch with these two ladies, and you might as well be having a one-on-one conversation with Kristen because Brandy, somehow the people who aren't in the lunchroom there with us are more important than the people who are sitting right there with her. Listen, I was furiously checking my email waiting for a response back from an important message. waiting for a response back from an important message.

I don't know what her excuse is every other week, Dad, but I'm just going to assume it's just always a very important email. Anyway. Back to this plea deal. Oh, you know what? I take it really well, but Brandi, you don't take our coaching so well. It's a shame. So McCracken reaches out to. Can we just call him Phil from now on?

McCracken reaches out to the prosecutors and was like, hey, any chance of working a plea deal here? And so they decided to float a little plea deal their way. They would float a little plea deal. Yeah. little plea deal their way. They would Float a little plea deal their way. Yeah. They would remove the malice murder charge, but she would have to plead guilty to felony

murder, which is a murder, a death that occurs in when another felony is being What is it? The commission of another felony. Yeah. Yes. The commission is the word that I have a really hard time remembering. And so he approaches his client and they agree to take

the deal. So this, she took this deal two days before her trial was to begin. And all of this happened in behind closed doors in judges chambers. That was like, I don't know, part of the deal, I guess. And so they have this private meeting with the judge and she has to admit, Teresa Conley has to admit, that this was planned, according to her, by her and Jim together. No. Give me a break. In order to better their finances and that Jim was never supposed to die. Give me a break. Well, that's a new story because yeah before it was he wanted to

so yeah so she was supposed to light two candles and get out of the house and then he was also supposed to at some point get out of the house but he'd been unable to do so and so he had died and he died in this fire and she said said at this plea hearing, she said at no time was there intent to bring harm or injury. The plot to burn the household was to ease the financial burden of myself and my husband. And at that hearing, she said, I lit two candles like he wanted me to do. And I walked away with no questions. I can't believe she's getting away with this.

I know. Oh, wait a minute. She's spending time in jail. She's not getting away with it. Yeah. But she should be going away for a very, very long time. Don't worry. She will be.

She just doesn't know it yet. Oh, OK. So, OK. So she is – that's a requirement of the plea deals that she has to admit what she did and how she did it and why she did it. But she comes up with a bullshit story to relieve herself of any blame. And in return, the state dropped the malice murder count and she was sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole. So when she was sentenced to this by the judge, she was shocked.

She's like, well, what does that mean? How long? What's the minimum? Did they not give her a sense of what her sentence would be? So she knew that she was facing life without the possibility of parole if she went to trial and was found guilty of the malice murder and the felony murder charge, which is why she sought the plea deal. She really thought she was going to get some kind of lesser sentencing by pleading guilty. But the judge said, or when she entered the plea, he said, there is no minimum. I can't tell you how long you'll be in there. That's up to the parole board. She said, well, what is, what does that mean? Like how, how long

before I go to the parole board? And he said, I can't give you guidelines on that. There's no guidelines on that. And he said, what I can tell you is that it would be a bad idea to punch a guard the first day you arrive in prison. That's hilarious. These judges, they sometimes got a sense of humor, don't they? I know. And she said, I beg that you have mercy on me for this. I accept full responsibility for this.

What now? Yeah. Weird because you didn't. A minute ago. Yeah. Uh-huh. And so Teresa Conley was sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole. And she was shipped off to prison.

So it turns out that she will be eligible for parole after 30 years. Wow. And this was not determined until after, like, all of this stuff goes through the courts and whatever. And so when she found that out, so she will not be eligible for parole until 2041. And she'll be 67 years old at that time. So when she found out that she had to serve a minimum of 30 years, she appealed her guilty plea, saying that she had ineffective counsel, that she wasn't properly explained what this plea deal was and what a guilty plea would mean. properly explained what this plea deal was and what a guilty plea would mean. And initially, it looks like the appeals court sided with her and said, yeah, that probably should have been explained a little bit better. But then the warden, this seems really weird.

The warden appealed that decision. The warden. Yes. Appealed that decision and said, no, look at this whole conversation that's in the record where the judge said, I can't tell you what the minimum is. It just depends on your behavior in prison. And so her sentence was upheld. I don't understand how the warden was the one who did that part, but OK. I don't know.

You're just some stupid hoe who showed up. That's what the court record says. I think you two are so lacking in your legal knowledge. What? I'm not sure you should be doing these cases and explaining this stuff without some kind of a legal background. I went to law school for an entire semester, even though I mentally checked out very early on. I think you should have gone at least two semesters. And Brandy, how about a full year of criminal justice, Brandy? What about that? Yeah, no, thank you.

So yeah, she was sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole after 30 years. She remains in prison now. Caleb and Allison were sent to live with family members. Caleb was interviewed extensively on these two programs. And he said he was just a super angry kid after this happened and that he acted out a lot and he didn't know how to where to place his anger. And then I think he joined the military and that really helped him. And he seems to be living like a happy and productive life now so he's early 20s now or yeah yeah okay well yeah that that would mess you up absolutely absolutely and that's the story of a fire whoo yeah rough one brandy rough yeah that lady was

full of shit yes you know when when people don't how to – they don't think through a story real well. Yeah. And then all of a sudden every few days they have to pivot off of that story into a new one because they've been caught in that lie. Well, yeah. And when you're lying in excess of 100 percent of the time, it's real bad. They're going to catch you. The math. Minimum 100 percent of the time. Yeah. They're going to catch you. The math. At a minimum, 100% of the time.

Yeah, they're going to catch you 104% minimum. Mm-hmm. Okay, you guys ready? Yeah. Are you ready? What do you got for us here, GP? Fishing around in your pants. Let me pull this out of my pocket.

Ew. No. Okay. Are you guys ready? Buckle up. Got a big one for you. No. Okay. Are you guys ready? Buckle up. Got a big one for you. Oh, boy. Dateline Secrets Uncovered episode.

That's where I originally learned about this case. Okay. Chillingcrimes.com had a good article. Oh, that's one of my favorite sources. Oh, it is? Yeah. And then lowhud.com. Have you ever heard of lowhud?

L-O-H-U-D dot com had another really good article by Robert Brum. Lowhud? Lowhud. Okay. Is this a reputable source, sir? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. I didn't use much from it, so. Oh, yeah. This is, okay. This is an actual newspaper. Oh, okay. And also, I didn't write, true crime, what's the one with Chris Hansen, Yeah, this is – OK. This is an actual newspaper. Oh, OK. And also I didn't write – true crime – what's the one with Chris Hansen, true crime story?

Oh, True Crime Daily. True Crime Daily. Yeah. I love me some Chris Hansen. I mean you remember him back in the day when he was getting after the predators, the child predators? I'm not familiar with that. Have a seat. Okay, 2002, Ira and Susan Bernstein, they have just gotten married.

They met at Penn State back in the 90s when they were both undergraduates. What were they studying? Well, let's – Oh, sorry. Calm down. Keep your pants on. Keep your pants on, as they say in the podcast business. He was studying some pre-med stuff because he became a doctor. He became a podiatrist, in fact.

We got a chiropractor and a podiatrist. Podiatrist this time. And on the Dateline episode, I can't think of the lady's name. She's interviewing him and she makes a joke about how did you choose feet? And he's kind of a nerdy, smart guy. And all he could think to say was, well, feet are very important. So he has a foot fetish is what we're getting at. Could be.

Could be. Feet are very important. Brandy, that's really not the direction this whole thing is going. Oh, OK. I'm sorry. It's not a foot problem issue. OK. But anyway, so they met at Penn State in the 90s with their undergraduate.

Susan also, she ends up getting her doctorate in education. So a couple of very highly educated, smart folks who got married and moved back to his childhood home in upstate New York, Rockland County, New York. Now let's fast forward because we've got the 2002 marriage. Now we're in 2012, 10 years later. These folks are killing it financially. I mean just killing it. Were they putting it into savings so that they weren't – Brandy –

Well, yeah, they weren't stupid, Brandy. Well, they did have – they did make some smart financial moves. OK. But they were still swimming upstream a little bit on the financial – Yeah, they were living a bit beyond their means. OK. 13 – now he's on this Dateline episode and they're interviewing him in a normal setting. So I'm starting off thinking, OK, he's maybe a victim here.

What's going on? No, uh-uh. You don't know anything at this point, Brandi. Yeah, we do. We've seen enough. Sometimes they like take half the jumpsuit off. They tie it at their waist. They put a regular shirt on at the top, yeah.

And then they just film from the waist up. You guys are very suspicious. He is bragging about how rich he is. 13,000 square foot house. Now, how many people tell you how many square feet their house is? You every time. Me. Thank you.

So obviously this guy is a smart guy. 14-acre property. Dang. Wow. 14-acre property. How many acres you got? I've got 11. Oh, that's so embarrassing.

I own other property though, Kristen. That's so sad. I know. Sad. I own other properties. Oh, that's so embarrassing. I own other properties, though, Kristen. That's so sad. I know. Sad. Only 11 acres. Maybe if you'd saved your money better, you could have 14. I needed to listen to this guy more.

If he would have given me some advice. They've got a beautiful pool house. They've got a lake on the property with a dock, you know, the boats and stuff. It's better than a pond. Tennis. Kristen, you're trying to put me down for not being as rich as this guy? No, he theoretically is richer than me. They own 20 other houses or commercial buildings. Well, Dad, he's definitely richer than you.

Oh, you don't know the whole story yet. Well, yeah, I mean, he's in prison now. And his wife. I had to spend a lot of money on that defense. Guess how much his wife, Susan, who does not work outside the home, how much does she spend on her credit card every month? Oh, $5,000. Brandy, that's child's play. What are you talking about? Brandy.

$20,000 a month. See, you're not much better. $40,000. Oh, wow. But again, we're listening to Ira's end of the story. That is true. It's probably all his wife's fault, whatever happens. Yeah.

I'm just getting the vibe. You're getting the vibe that Susan may not be as bad as we're thinking. So he literally says, we were kind of struggling financially because I have a feeling there were mortgages on all this stuff. So it wasn't like this stuff was free and clear. You guys love an address, don't you? Oh, shit. Yes, we do. OK.

OK. Buckle up, buttercups. This is on. You can go to Realtor.com or anywhere. This is for sale right now. I see the address. I got it. Come on.

Come on. 6 Cobblestone Farm Court. What? That's not even a real – Cobblestone is one word. We're in New Jersey? No. We're in New York in Montebello, New York or one –

Oh, here we go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it.

You said it's for sale right now? It's for sale right now. Oh, shit. Oh, shit. Oh, shit. Ten beds, nine baths? Oh, that is... Hey, it's a 13,000 square foot. Okay, according to this, it's only 8,000 square feet.

Oh, you mean he was... You're not counting the below grade square footage. Maybe he was lying. No, there's probably 5,000 square foot basement, don't you think? Yeah, probably so. Probably so. Are you looking at the entrance into this place? Yes, I fucking am. Do you see that think? Yeah, probably so. Are you looking at the entrance into this place? Yes, I fucking am.

Do you see that gate? No, I'm talking about when you enter the home. Oh, I'm not into the house yet. Hold on. It's the perfect setup for like when you come to my house. Yeah, exactly. I come down in a ball gown every time. See, Kristen comes down one side in the ball gown.

Brandy comes down the other side in the ball gown. Wait, are we living together in this fantasy? This is prom pictures, Kristen. You get together for prom pictures. Look at the ball gown. Brandi comes down the other side in the ball gown. Wait, are we living together in this fantasy? This is prom pictures, Kristen. You get together for prom pictures. Look at the terrible wallpaper. There's wallpaper all over the fucking place in this thing. And, you know, I'm not anti-wallpaper, but this stuff is 2002

electric boogaloo. I kind of like that bathroom wallpaper. Yeah, no, the bathroom wallpaper's good. I'm talking about that Four Seasons room. That's just terrible. Listeners, I'm going to take a break for about 20 minutes while they oogle this house. I mean, they have an upholstered headboard, so you know I'm here for that. Yeah, that is virtually staged, though.

That furniture is not really in that room. I don't know how you know that, Brandi. I can tell. On Realtor.com, they're supposed to say if it's staged. Virtually staged, I should say. Okay. Don't go too crazy. Because you know what?

I'm going crazy. Oh, man. They've got an outdoor, like the fire pit situation. That's very nice. Is this a mother-in-law suite here? It sure is. Holy shit. Look at that tennis court.

Tennis court. Beautiful. Giant pool. Now, you're not even saying. How much are they asking for this house now? Five million. I know. I mean, I'm serious.

Should we go buy it? I think we should because— Something horrible happened here. Well, you don't know anything horrible happened here, Kristen. Yes, I do. I've got a feeling. Horrible things happened. Horrible things happened here.

Multiple people were murdered in this house. Doesn't say that anywhere. No, no, because nothing bad happened. Horrible things happened here. Multiple people were murdered in this house. It doesn't say that anywhere. No, no, because nothing bad happened. This is one of these. It's got lush grass. This is one of these. It says right here on the listing. I thought you were just admiring the grass.

No. What's a fireplace balcony? There's a balcony with a fireplace? That's exactly what it sounds like to me. You look over your balcony and you see a fireplace. That's not what that means. Did you see it has radiant heat? You got to love radiant heat.

Yeah. Especially in 2002, you got to love radiant heat. You think they got that in-floor heating? Oh, I'm sure. Yeah, for sure, right? Now, here's the weird thing. That was your favorite thing to talk about at your last house. Was radiant heat?

No, your floor heat. We didn't have floor heat. We didn't have floor heat. They didn't have floor heat. You're thinking of their RV. Oh, is that what it is? Okay. Excuse me. Yes.

How dare you, Brandy? I want you to take a guess as to what these two folks paid for this house around, you know, in the early 2000s. I'll tell you here in one second. No, that's no fun, Brandi. Brandi, I'm not going to let you look that up. Okay. They paid $1.6 million in 2010. Wow.

Now, remember, 2010, that's when we bought our place. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, business was bad in 2010 in the real estate market. So they paid $1.6. They sold it for $4.1 about a year ago, and now it's back on the market for $5 million. I still think if you're an hour outside of New York City, this thing ought to be – I would have guessed $10 million. I would have guessed as well. Yes.

Anyway. OK. So you got a picture of how these folks are living. Yeah. $40 grand a month on the credit card. They've got money rolling in from rental properties. Yeah. $40,000 a month on the credit card. They've got money rolling in from rental properties. Yeah. But things aren't as smooth as silk as you'd think, even financially.

Right. And then we're going to get into some other stuff that is not fun. But they have three kids. They're banging other people. Brandy. Banging other people. Brandy, don't pull this down into the gutter. Oh, yeah.

Why else could it be? This isn't one of your cases that you just did where the lady was banging guys, banging the dudes. Okay. It didn't specifically say dudes. She could have been banging ladies. It could have been. I'm sorry. Sometimes I am just slightly homophobic.

That's the old white guy again. Yeah. You did want the boomer perspective. We did. You know, the boomer perspective. We did. You know, the listeners demanded it. I said, put that boomer on there more. Okay, again, remember, this is Ira's story. Okay.

And so— From prison. No, Randy! He has an affair. Oh, he was banging other people. He was. Yeah. That was the next thing out of my mouth after I told you you were crazy, Randy. So he has an affair. Oh, he was banging other people. Yeah. That was the next thing out of my mouth after I told you you were crazy, Brandy.

So he has an affair. He gets caught. In the act? No, no, no. Don't get so graphic. Don't get so graphic in the detail. She's disgusting. I'm sorry, Dad.

Yeah, really, Brandy. Come on. Can you keep her under control a little more? I can't. I wish I could. Cut the mic. She has no control over me. Patty cut her whole story.

So here's what Ira tells the Dateline people. What does he say? They have an open marriage now. He has negotiated an open marriage. I don't think Susan knows about the open marriage.

The thing about an open marriage is that both people have to know they're in an open marriage. That's just cheating, right? That's correct. And it looks like that's kind of the way things were going. But again, when you're in front of the camera, you're telling your side of the story, which might have some positive twists going towards you. Okay, Weird thing.

She gets tired of this open marriage that she didn't know about. In 2014, she kicks him out of the house. Now, how do you get a guy kicked out of the house? What do you mean? I mean, he's still boxed? No. I mean, have the police come and get him because he's both verbally and emotionally abusive to her and the kids. OK.

All right. Yeah. His response to that is on the gentle teddy bear. I wouldn't ever. I don't even. My kids will fall over me. I was really thinking you were going to be like that bitch. No, no, no.

He was. He was a big sweetie pie. Here's the deal. Here's the deal. I'm telling you, as you're watching this case, you're thinking, this guy is a good actor because he was sounding – he was like producing tears. You were buying all the garbage. You're not really buying it, but he's producing tears when he needs to have tears. He's getting choked when he needs to be choked.

He's telling you what a good daddy is. So you're kind of like, man, this guy, he's got the act down. He does get his way back into the house a few months later. So she gives – well, he's – What charm. He's charming. He's charming me on the camera. He's charming her.

That's true. Dad's bent over waiting for her. Kristen. You're the one bent over. That's worse than anything I've said today. Listeners, I want to apologize on Kristen's behalf for saying things. You know, here's the thing. Brandy likes to dip her toe over the line.

I like to just jump in. Okay, so get this. So he's back in. Things aren't going well when he's back in. Shocking. Because he's still doing the open marriage that she doesn't know about. Yeah. All of a sudden, she talks him into signing a post-nup.

Oh. That gives her the vast majority of their fortune. Wow. And we don't really know how much that is because they owe so much money. But it gives her the vast majority. Why would he sign a postnup? Because he's planning to kill her. Yeah.

She's not going to survive the marriage, so it doesn't matter. Okay. That's a good theory. That's a good theory. We may find out that she knows some stuff. Oh. Also. So she may know some stuff that would make him do

just about anything. So he's up to some illegal activities. Okay. Alright. I got a double point. Double point. Brandy's understanding. So she knows all the dirt on him. She knows dirt. Why he shared this dirt, I do not know. But at some point in this marriage

he shares the dirt. Okay. We're going to circle back to the dirt. We're going to come back to that. We don this marriage, he shares the dirt. OK. We're going to circle back. We're going to come back to that. We don't get to know what the dirt is yet. Not yet. Just giving us a little taste. But so he's like out of the house again now. He's gotten punted out for the second time because of his misunderstanding of what open marriage meant.

And he meets Kelly Grabolick. Now, Kelly, in one reading, was a former patient of his. In another one, she was selling the foot inserts for your shoe and met him through that. In another one, she worked in one of the offices. So I know she worked in one of his offices later on. But this lady – OK. Kristen, here we go. He's 40.

How low would it go on her age for you to be comfortable? I want you to be comfortable. How low? 35. She barely missed. She's 33. So you're almost comfortable. And here's the other thing.

She's a divorced mom with three kids as well. So she's got similar – Oh, then in that case, yeah, that's fine. You're OK with a 33. She has life experience. That's a life experience 33 right there. And also, I'm going to make some assumptions. OK. She knows what she's gaining out of this relationship.

Oh, yeah. The police said she was not a person of means, which that's a really nice way of saying she's poor. Thank you. Wow. Thank you, Bird. She had in the past been a mortician. Oh. Oh.

So – I assumed they made pretty good money. Am I wrong? Well, she wasn't a mortician anymore. So here's what I think. They said she was a mortician. I think she was slapping some makeup on the people after the fact. I don't think she was doing... She wasn't doing

the embalming. I don't know, but... Don't ask these questions! Why all the detail, Nora? I think I might have missed my calling in life. I think maybe I was supposed to be a... Investigator? No, a mortician. Yeah. Because she loves makeup. Yeah. She's a big, creepy weirdo. I think maybe I was supposed to be a – Investigator? No, a mortician.

Yeah. Because she loves makeup. Yeah. She's a big, creepy weirdo. I could do the hair and then I could screw the thing in the butthole. Do it all. Can you gut them and everything, Brandi? I think I could do it. Ew, gut them?

Well, Kristen, what do you think they do? Oh, do they gut them? I mean, yeah, you got to do some stuff. You got to take the stuff out. Yeah, no, that makes sense. You don't want stinky. Also, another point. Oh, you just banged the table, sir.

We're trying to have a professional podcast here where Brandy talks about her joy for sticking things in people's buttholes. And you talk about your father being bent over. That's a true story. Now, Brandy, she tried to become a mortician, but she was too excited about that butthole plug. They kicked me out the second day. She's like, so when do we start?

And they said, why don't you go next door to the cosmetology school? And you said, sorry. Okay, sorry. Also, Kelly had really good feet. That is just a rumor. Ew. Just a rumor.

Ew, stop. Are you making a joke? I totally made that up. But you know she would have to have good feet, right? Yeah. Okay, I got a quote. Although you're marrying a bald guy. That is true.

Yeah, that doesn't make sense. But he's got a hell of a beard. Yeah, he does. Which I groomed for him. Maybe Kelly's got a hell of a beard. Yeah, he does. Which I groomed for him. Maybe Kelly's got a hell of an ass or something. Okay, I've got a quote that Ira said on the Dateline TV show. Yeah. She had a sexy look to her and she really got me.

Oh, boy. Really got me. Doesn't that sound like the most – Girl, you really got me now. You really got me now. I don't know what I'm doing. Hey, does anybody still do those soundtracks? Let's go to court soundtracks.

What do you mean? Back like a couple of years ago, somebody did a. Oh, like a Spotify playlist? Yeah, of all your hits. Do I want to do a mixtape, Brandi? Yeah, can you do a mixtape? I think there's a couple listeners who have put together some Let's Go to Court Spotify playlists. Okay.

Does anybody burn CDs anymore? What about those 45s that you put on the disc player? Does anybody get the Victrola out? Oh, Kristen, don't make fun of boomers anymore. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You still have those headphones that have like the foam pads on them. You should see my headphones.

My headphones are really cool now, Brandy. Are they? Yeah. What kind of headphones is he wearing? I don't know what kind of headphones, but I'm doubting. I've got ear candy. Ear candy. Oh!

I'm going to get him out. You've got wireless jammies? Well, okay, but is one of them not working so you're only using one now? What was that story? Well, I can make both of them work, but a lot of times I'll run outside and you only want one because if you're outside running, you really need to hear a car coming up behind you. Right. Or a murderer. Wasn't there a while there when you only had one that was working or you lost one?

That's all that works right now because I haven't hooked it up to both of them to work. Okay. Some special skill you have to unlock within your headphones for both of them to work? Yes, that is correct. Okay, so this Kelly lady. Dan, have you ever felt like you were going to be murdered out on a run? Not murdered. I did get hit by a car once.

Yeah, I do know that. Yeah. Yeah, so that you might have a reason. Let me tell you, when a car comes at you, you get high. And I'm not talking smoking pot. I'm taking you jump to get on top of the hood of the car instead of being underneath the car. I always heard white man can't jump.

Except this guy. Except for this one right here. Yeah, DP's got ups. DP's got the ups. Those Costco shoes really send you flying. Even if you have the up in costco shoes no he doesn't yeah yeah i think i got them at costco they're asics though oh well that's not what we're not we're not sure you're not running in costco court classics yeah you're gonna need

a podiatrist costco adidas here i'm not in the court classics anymore only because they don't sell them anymore if they sold 15 tennis15 tennis shoes, I would buy them. You would buy them. OK. OK. So Kelly is also an aspiring model. Now, she's an aspiring model. She's 33 and has three kids.

OK. Kristen, let me explain how you become an aspiring model at 33. OK. I was an aspiring Major League Baseball player when I was in my 20s playing in Beer League softball games. Yes. That's the same way. So they have some pictures of her dressed up in nice dresses and stuff. Yeah.

She's doing the sexy look. She's sucking in her cheeks. Chicken wing? Is that what this hand on the hip is called? Yeah. She's doing the chicken wing. That's where you lose your arm fat real quick. Yeah, that's how you do it.

And you've got to do like a claw hold on the hand. Yeah. That's what she was your arm fat real quick. Yeah, that's how you do it. And you've got to do like a cloth on the hand. That's what she was doing. She was doing pictures like that. Now, aspiring model. When I think of model, I think of Gazelle, Bunchen, and Tom Brady. Did I say her name wrong?

Yeah. No, you said it right. Gazelle. Gazelle. Like Tony Little's Gazelle. What's Tony Little's? You know, the guy with the ponytail and he's doing the arms and the sweet thingy. You know, the Tony Little Gazelle. Okay, are you guys... Her name is Giselle.

Giselle, are you guys feeling sorry for her and Tom? No? I think they'll both be fine. Yeah, I think they're going to come out the other end of this and still have wealthy hot people. I heard Gazelle doesn't have six-month savings put away. I think she does. Do you know she made over $100 million a year in her prime? That's more than Tyra Bonks.

Kristen. Kristen, it's more than Tyra Bonks. Kristen. Kristen, it's Banks. Oh, excuse me. Okay, so let's get back to this case. All right. We've got the aspiring model and the rich doctor. Now, is she really an aspiring model or is this like Dateline just being kind of shitty? Oh, I think Dateline being shitty.

Oh, OK. But it was interesting. You know, Dateline, they sneak some stuff in. So instead of just like going to when she knows she's on camera, they pull back and they show the interviewer and another camera. And she's like playing with her hair, fixing it up. That's just rude because I'd be doing the same fucking thing if I knew I was going to be on camera. She was dolled up. I'm sure she's beautiful.

Anyway, okay. She was okay. It doesn't pass the DP test. She's no gazelle. She's not a gazelle. She's no gazelle on the Serengeti. Let's just put it that way. Susan, the wife, finds out about the aspiring model and is not happy.

It's not a good situation to have your husband, even though it's estranged and he's moved out. Yeah, but she's got all this dirt on him. So what's she going to do with the dirt? Well, she's got the dirt. Yeah. So she doesn't have to worry too much. What are you going to do with the dirt? Well, she's got the dirt.

Yeah. So she doesn't have to worry too much. Kelly, poor Kelly, sees this man she loves who is being mistreated by the wife. Oh, no. Mistreated. And she goes on and on in this episode about how I can't see the man I love be hurt. Oh, my God. Do they murder Susan? Oh, Lord.

Brandy, do not worry about Susan. Susan's got the dirt. I'm worried about Susan. Okay, now we're going to go forward a little more time. So they're developing this relationship. We're at 2016 now, and Kelly is out shopping. Now, what does the mistress of a rich doctor go shopping? Okay, she goes shopping for lingerie is a good guess.

Yes. What else? She goes shopping for like a matching set of lingerie that she also got for her friend. Kristen, that is the worst made-up thing I've ever heard in my life. No one does that. You're right. No one should do it. Any other?

You have not? You have not gotten it yet? Now, hold on. Give us the setup again. The mistress of a rich guy, what's she out shopping for? We're talking about just shopping for herself? Yeah, yeah. She's shopping for herself.

Designer handbags. Boob job. Another couple of good guesses. We're not there yet. Car. Makeup. Makeup? Car.

Car, that's a good guess. Okay, car is a really good guess. And car is as close as we're going to get to the right answer. Tractor. Yeah. She's tractor shopping. So he had already bought her a BMW. Oh, my lord.

But listen. Listen. So she met this BMW car salesman when he got her the BMW. Wait. Is he hot? For some reason – I'm sorry. I just slurped.

I was coming. She goes back to talk to him. His name is Markenzie Lucant, and he is a BMW car salesman. Is he hot? No. No, he's not. He's not hot at all. No. She's just like created this relationship, so she's going to come back and buy even more stuff from him.

Keep up, Brandy. Come on. All right. Brandy, she is so far off base, it's not even funny. Really? So evidently, when she talked with Kenzie, she indicated that, you know, having some problems with her ex, you know, and stuff like that. She doesn't have custody of the kids.

And so she's not happy not having custody of the kids. And maybe there's a reason she doesn't have custody of the kids, but we'll find out. He tells her, hey, I've got some connections. I might be able to help you out. And the connections he has is with the police department. But he doesn't articulate his connections. But if you have some trouble with the ex-husband, let me know and I'll – Oh, my gosh.

So she thinks the connections are like crime. Like a hitman. Yes. Yes. Yes. She's shopping for a hitman. But instead, he knows the police. So, OK, listen to this.

And he's one of those upstanding BMW salesmen. And so he's going to turn them in. Oh, Brandy. He's going to set it up. OK. All right. Why don't you let me see the way this podcast works in its truest form as I tell the story and you listen and react.

OK, so she goes to him now. She had struck out three times already. Shopping for a hitman. Yeah. Now, can you imagine somebody comes to you and wants to know either if you'll kill somebody or if you know someone who will kill somebody? I would be so flattered. Because they'd say – you'd think, oh, this person knows I have connections. Well, Markenzi, he's kind of a wannabe cop kind of guy.

And he sees an opportunity to go undercover. He's so excited. Yes! He is. He is about peeing himself. Yeah. Yeah. He's going to get wired up.

Because he's got these buddies in the police department that he knows real well. Well, nobody's more excited than the police officers because they know this situation. Yeah. They're all just drama kids at heart. So – and so they kind of figure it out real early on because she says she needs somebody killed. Yeah. I mean, this – You only get one guess as to who it is. So she goes into pretty strong detail as to how this should happen.

Oh, good. That's convenient. How does she want it to happen? Total accident. Right. She wants her hit as a pedestrian. Oh, gosh. Now, this has nothing to do with –

Just like you on a run. Yeah. She wants her with two headphones. Interestingly enough – and really seriously, the cop said this had nothing to do with it, but she had actually hit and killed a pedestrian several years before. And they said there was no indication that it was – there was any kind of an intent or anything like that. But she had hit and killed a pedestrian. So she's thinking this is an easy thing that happened. No investigation.

And the bottom line is – so we've got Markenzie's car with audio recording and a camera sitting in the middle of the back seats, between the two back seats. A camera is facing forward. And we're seeing footage after footage after footage. Was it a hidden camera or one of the big shoulder cams? And she was like, don't worry about that thing. Don't worry about that cop-looking guy. You hear the VHS stop. It needs to be turned over.

I flip the tape over. So, Markenzie, he says, at first he's like, you know, she's not really serious about this. She's just mad because she says, the lady's calling me a hoe and the lady's calling... I said, my daughter and her friend call each other hoes all the time. That's just what happens. But Markenzie ends up telling her, I know some guys. And when he says he knows guys,

he means police officers. He does not get specific on what he knows. So they meet up in this rigged vehicle. And the police said, get her in the vehicle if you can. Don't go to her car. Come and get her in here. Sure enough, she gets in and she just lays it out. They need this Susan Bernstein killed. That's got to be an accident.

And he says, OK, what do you think in money-wise? And she says, well, what do you think in money-wise? And she says, two. Two what? 2,000? Well, he says, 200,000? Yeah. Because I think she was seeing if they'd do it for two.

Yeah. She doesn't know who – Markenzie, he might sell BMWs, but his buddies might be really low rent. Yeah. And so they agree to $200,000. Okay, now this is more than most, but these guys, you know, Markenzie knows. This lady bought a BMW and she didn't have BMW money. So he knows that the husband is funding this.

And so they agree $200,000. He's probably going to have to liquidate some of that property to get that money. Who knows? Maybe he's got $200,000 laying around. Okay, so then Markenzie says, property to get that money. Well, who knows? Maybe he's got $200,000 laying around. Okay. So then Markenzie says, going to need a deposit. How much is the deposit? $2,000.

Need $2,000 up front. Okay. Great. Now – You know, 1% deposit. What do you do when you have to give somebody a deposit in a contract situation? You want to know the refund policy. What?

She literally asks what their refund policy was. Oh, my gosh. What, if she changes her mind or if they don't do it? Or if they don't do it. All kinds of stuff could go wrong. Brandy, think about it. You're redoing your basement. Yeah. The guy wants $200,000 to redo your basement.

You say, okay, here's $2,000. What's your refund policy if you don't get the job done? She thinks that they are in some kind of a legitimate business situation where she's going to get her $2,000 back. She's going to ask for a refund. She's going to ask for – no, she didn't ask for a refund. She wants to know what the policy is. Okay, great. What was the policy?

Hitmen often have written policies. Yeah, it's on the back of the receipt. Yeah, yeah. Hitmen often have written policies. Yeah, it's on the back of the receipt. Yeah, yeah. The policy was – you remember we did a case a few – maybe last time I was on where the installment plan was – they attempted to set up an installment plan for a hit. This is another detail that needs to be thought through when you're doing a hit is can we do an installment plan and is there a refund policy? I think I fell out of my chair when she asked me.

That's what the refund policy was. Because actually hearing her say it, what's your refund policy? And McKenzie, I mean this guy is a good actor. He's like, refund policy? What are you talking about? This is a hit. Refund policy. I don't think he was acting.

I think that's how anyone would react. Well, he gets a chance to act a lot more and it gets even better. So, you know, she runs to Ira and says, OK, it's going to be $200,000. Well, Ira's not really happy with the price. It does seem pricey. Even for a man of that – but, you know, they went on Zillow and looked up his house and say, this guy's got a $5 million house. Right.

We are getting $200,000. Yeah. Well, she has to go back then because she's the intermediary. Yeah. Ira is staying clean on this in his own mind. Yeah. But she keeps mentioning my partner and we. And so – and Markenzie knows she doesn't have $100,000 or $200,000 to her name.

But she comes back and she says, it's got to be $100,000. Well, he's like, no, we already agreed to $200,000. No, but he's going to be like, great. We'll still do it. Okay. Okay. For you. I'm going to have to give up.

For you, we'll do it. Yeah. You're a first-time customer. And since you've been called a hoe, that's not okay. A 50% discount. Okay. So they agree. Here's the deal.

$100,000. She's already given the two thousand. And you'd think at this point they could just jump on it and go because you always hear once they get the money, they can. They have it. But they really want they want IRA. Oh, well, they want IRA on. Yeah. Because, yeah, the whale, the big, the big fat IRA whale. So they're going back and forth and they meet several times. Ira Hoyle.

So they're going back and forth and they meet several times. I mean it's not – she is not uncomfortable at all sitting around in this BMW talking about this deal. But Ira is still a little uneasy about it. And he has maybe another job that they could do for him before they murder his wife. What? To prove that they're capable of – Her ex-husband that has the kids? Trevor Burrus No. Good guess, Brandi.

But remember I told you that Susan was on to something? There are some insurance investigators that need to be taken out of the picture at least … Deirdre McCloskey Kill the insurance investigators? Trevor Burrus Oh, not kill them, Kristen. Where are you going with this? Kill them. They need to be roughed up. Where are you going with this? Kill them. They need to be roughed up.

Oh, my gosh. And so – Let them know who they're messing with. And so they pay $2,500 each to get these guys roughed up. And she says, now, we don't want – because they're investigating him for insurance fraud. We don't want him coming into work Monday with a broken leg. We want him in the hospital, out of commission for a long time. I don't know how you exactly get these hit men to beat somebody up so badly that they don't die.

But I'm guessing. It takes a particular set of skills. Yeah, you got to know what you're doing. You got to hit them in the right temple and not – It's weird that you touched the top of your head when you said that. That's where he keeps his temple. Don't you keep your temple up high? I've got a high temple.

So again, Markenzie says, you got it. Yeah. So he goes to the police with this need to rough these guys up. They call the guys. Yeah. And the guy says, oh, yeah, we're investigating Ira for insurance fraud. Yeah. Why?

What did he do? He is claiming to have operated on people he hasn't operated on. Oh, so he's billing stuff he's never procedures he's never done. Yeah. And every person in town has two ingrown toenails. And guess who knows the whole thing? Yeah. Susan.

Yeah. She knows – Susan knows the dirt. OK. And so these guys – Medicare fraud? Is he committing Medicare fraud? No, he didn't say.

He just said insurance fraud. It looked like he had the contract for this police force that was investigating him. So in fact, the two investigators, the two lead investigators, they have been patients of his, not been operated on, but have been in his office, had their feet checked out. They're a little concerned that if this gets to where they're in the same parking lot that he might recognize them. Yeah. So it's a little dicey at this point. Yeah. Had to get some fake moustaches.

So they say, cool, cool, cool. We're going to do it. And they hire a makeup artist from the movie FX. Now, Brandy, I don't know. Is that a gruesome movie? Isn't that a network FX?

They said it was a movie. I think you misheard. They were, okay, maybe they were just makeup experts for the network FX. I thought they said movie. Or think you misheard. They were, okay, maybe they were just makeup experts for the network FX. I thought they said movie. Or maybe they did special FX. So

they hired this makeup artist that is experienced in making up guys. And so they have these pictures. And I'm telling you, I'm looking at these pictures thinking, I'm not buying this. Oh. It didn't, it looked way too professional. Because this should be a blurry cell phone. Right.

And it looks like they hired the police photographer to go out and take pictures of these guys. Annie Leibovitz came in and shot them. At any rate, the first thing – so he brings these back to Kelly. Markenzie, it's another meetup in the Walmart parking lot right across from the police station. Yeah. So they wouldn't have to drive very far. Shows her the pictures. The first thing out of her mouth is these look like police photos.

Oh, shit. And Markenzie is like, oh, gosh. But this is one of many times when it appears that they have – That she's like catching on. Yeah. That Markenzie again is – she's like, police photos? What are you talking about? of many times when it appears that they have – they kind of know something that Markenzi again is – he's like, police photos? What are you talking about?

I stood over here and took these pictures while these guys beat these guys up. I'm an amateur photographer. Yeah. And he's just – Thank you. And it's so – it's interesting how easy it is to just like dismiss her like what a stupid thing to say and she just backs off. Backs off. So – Maybe he was an aspiring say. And she just backs off. Yeah. Backs off.

Maybe he was an aspiring photographer. She was an aspiring model. And she's like, I've got to be nice to this guy. Yeah. Clearly he's got some talent. Yeah. And these people were taking these pictures outside as if, you know, you probably should have done something in an enclosed area.

Yeah. How about like in a hospital? Well, so you're on to something there. You're on to something there. Yeah. Thank you. But he shows these guys and they're on to something there. You're on to something there. Yeah, thank you. But he shows these guys and they're in the process of getting beat up. Oh, OK.

They got some blood. You're not getting beat up in the hospital. No, you're not getting beat up in the hospital. OK. OK. How about like a sketchy parking garage? That would have been better. Thank you.

But no, no, they didn't. OK. Again. I think you two really have some opportunities here in this field. Mark Kinsey is – he's really good. But sometimes some of the cop moves like those bad pictures and I didn't get it. But Mark Kinsey, it kind of – he pulls it out of the hat. Yeah.

So he shows Kelly the pictures. She's like – and he puts her at ease and she says, hey, can I take these and show Ira because I don't really know what these guys look like, these insurance investigators. And he says, oh, no, no, no. You don't want to have these on your person. Yeah. Driving around. No. And he's like, I'm going to have to coach this lady on how you do hits.

Yeah. And he says, how about if we get a hold of Ira and he comes and takes a look at him and everything? And I'm thinking – they're showing this live. I'm thinking this isn't going to work. They get him on the phone and Ira starts talking to Markenzie on speakerphone. And Ira says, well, if you want to look at the pictures, you can come here. We can come over to your office, whatever you want to do. He says, oh, OK, OK.

You come over to the office and I'll come out to the parking lot. And so this couldn't be better for Mark McKenzie because he's in the car. And so literally the three of them are in the car. I tell you what, this is fascinating footage. The three of them are in the car. I tell you what, this is fascinating footage to watch. The three of them are in the car. He shows him the pictures. He kind of is like, I don't know about these pictures.

And he says, well, those are the guys, right? Well, yeah, but yeah, okay. Well, you did what we asked. Okay. And Mark Henry's saying, you ready? We're ready to rock and roll on murdering your wife? And he says, I tell you what. Give me a couple of days.

Give me a couple of days. I want to do some stuff. And at that point, you don't really know what's he – what's he wanting a couple of days for. And Markenzie is like, OK. You're the boss. Whatever you want to do. Yeah. So they're getting ready to finish up this conversation.

And Ira looks into the back seat, looks directly at the cameras. Holy shit. Between the seats and said, what's that? Oh my god. And they cut to the police and the police said, we were shitting our pants. Yes. We're fucked. It's not going to work.

Markenzie, oh, you're talking about that? That's where my kids hook their audio up for their video games. And he taps them back. They put the video games up here and hook the audio in back there. And he's like, oh, oh. And he looks back. That is good. Then he looks back again and he says, I just want to make sure I don't end up on TV.

Oh, my lord. Again, you'd think at this point. end up on TV. Oh, my Lord. Again, you'd think at this point. Quick thinking Markenzie. Oh, Markenzie. Markenzie kick. I mean, this guy, you talk about an Academy Award. Yeah. This guy was.

Can you give me a run for my money? Is that what you're saying? I think it's Brandy and Markenzie. But he is. It's that piece of shit Meryl Streep. Oh, they're not going to lose to Meryl Streep. No. But he has this way of being dismissive of that idea and kind of laughing at these amateurs he's working with.

That's the best way to dismiss someone. Make them think that's like the stupidest thing they could suggest. Yeah. But I have a feeling if it was me, I'd be like, uh, I had to. Anyway, he just absolutely. So you're saying you're not a criminal mastermind? like, uh, I have to. Anyway, he just absolutely – You're saying you're not a criminal mastermind or a – I could be if I wanted to. I haven't worked at it.

Yeah. But clearly, Mark Enzi had been watching some YouTube videos on how to set up a sting operation and get the folks. So he still falls for it though. Yeah. He still falls for it though. Yeah. I mean he still falls for it. And so the next meeting, they are so spooked by this whole situation that Kelly refuses to get in the car with Markenzie because they think, well, something could be up. And so she thinks if I stand outside of the car, everything will be cool. Huh. So they must have actually talked to him.

Well, maybe that was a camera. Well, maybe it wasn't. But anyway. Yeah. They're still going ahead with it. So the way that the geniuses, Kelly and Ira, come up with to keep them out from being – not from being in trouble, from not being in trouble is that she will stand outside the car. And even if there's audio, when he says, are we ready to go ahead with this hit, She'll type in yes on her cell phone and hold it up. Oh, my gosh.

She and Ira evidently thought that is the way they will not be implicated in this murder. Obviously. Maybe you're not remembering that you've planned the whole damn thing over a few weeks here. Over a few weeks here. And so once they've got that, that yes, because Ira has already said, I'm not going to be the one. She's going to meet with you again. If she says yes, that yes comes from me. And so they got them both.

Yeah. So now it's arrest time. Yeah. So Kelly gets arrested just a few minutes before that Ira gets arrested. So Kelly's arrested. She is shocked and chagrined. She cannot believe she's being arrested for setting up a hit on Susan Bernstein because Susan, she knows Susan. She's talked to Susan. And Susan has told her that if Ira and Susan's marriage breaks up, she hopes she ends up with Kelly.

No, that never fucking happened. Now, Brandy, I sat there on the Dateline episode and listened to her tell me. I'm sure she did say that. She's full of shit. So they march her down through the police station and poor Markenzie, he's in handcuffs. Oh, they're really selling it.

Oh, they're selling it big time. And they're standing in the hallway. Chris Hansen is interviewing Markenzie about – he says, now, where did this happen? He says, I'm standing here looking all meek and in my handcuffs. And they march her by and she is – he said she just turned every shade of white you can imagine. And then he said, she pissed herself. And Chris Hansen said, wait, are you literally saying she urinated on herself? And he says, absolutely.

She urinated on herself. Oh, my gosh. Well, I mean, I probably would, too. Yeah, yeah. Oh, my gosh. Well, I mean I probably would too. Yeah, yeah. She totally fell apart. So you get some video of her in the interrogation room. Yeah. She is – it's not like on the Dateline episode.

She is bawling her eyes out. They're asking her about her relationship with Ira. They're asking her all kinds of questions and all she can say is, don't ask me that. Don't ask me that. She was looking kind of pathetic and don't ask me that. And no word as to whether she got some clean clothes. She may have been still sitting there. Sitting in her pee pants. Sitting in her pee pants like a one-year-old. Oh, my gosh. So Ira, on the other hand, he's you know, he's hauled in almost simultaneously.

They don't march him by a Markenzie for some reason. I wish they would have because, you know, maybe Ira pees his pants too. Maybe he would have. Maybe they only had one spare pair of pants. We're fresh out of pants. We can't risk it. We've got, we've got a whole jail full of pants back there, but we're not busting into that. That's for the inmates. So Ira plays it much cooler. You know, he doesn't really know what they're talking about. And, of course, Ira is not going to go very far in this before he gets a lawyer. Sure. Quickly.

And bails himself out of jail, by the way. So they put both of them away. So he leaves Kelly in there? Kristen, why would he leave Kelly in there? Oh, well, you said he bailed himself out. He did. He bailed Kelly out four months later. Oh, my God.

That is awful. Well, so that in a perfect situation, because the worst case. It took him a while to liquidate some assets. Yes, sir. He may not have enough money to bail two people out. But anyway, so he bails himself out. So he's out there living his best life. Well, that's terrible because then the investigators can just go to Kelly and be like, hey, he doesn't care about you.

Tell us the whole thing. Kristen, you have hit the nail on the head. Now, here's the problem. So you've got the perfect setup. You're telling her time and time again, probably every day you sit down with her and say, OK, another day has passed. He's out there doing whatever he wants with his wife, with his kids. Yeah, living it up. Yeah.

It's a perfect scenario for him. She finally breaks down. Yeah. And says, OK, OK. I'll talk. I'll talk. It was his idea. Yeah.

It was his money. Hey, the first to squeal gets the deal. That's the way. It was his money. The first to squeal gets the deal. That's the way it usually works. So she kind of bails on him. But here's the deal. Once she bails on him, they offer her a deal to give him.

So she gets 12 years in prison deal offer. Haven't gone to trial yet, so she gets 12 years in prison deal offer. Haven't gone to trial yet. So she gets 12 years in prison. Yeah, that doesn't seem bad. But a minimum of four. So she's eligible for parole after four years. Wow.

Yeah. I got to tell you, by the luck of Markenzie, you know, if one of those first three guys would have been, you know, the real deal, Susan would be dead. Absolutely. So she gets a deal and he bails her out then after he's been there four months. Well, once she's bailed out, she starts living with Ira. What? Yeah, she moves in with Ira. How do they allow that? Well, you can live wherever you – once you're bailed out, you can live wherever you want.

Usually they have like a no contact with any other witnesses in the case. I think they felt like there were some downsides to it, but there were some upsides to it. Because the fact that she had already implicated him was good. Yeah. The worry they had was, OK, she's living with him. She's going to recant everything she said. Exactly. That's what their concern was.

Because as they're talking to her, she becomes. We already learned that. Less and less of a sure thing that she was going to not recant and was going to try to bail. Well, so they've got to come up with a story. So they're living together now. They've got to come up with a story.

Okay, they've got all this video evidence. What are they going to come up with that said we were not trying to murder Susan? Well, what they come up with is— They were writing a play. I've heard that one. I've heard that one before. No, it was this bad Markenzie guy.

Yeah. Markenzie lured them into this. It was all his idea. His idea. Now, they didn't really go quite that far, but they said we initially, because they got all that video of it, we initially wanted her dead. But we changed our minds and we didn't want her dead. But we were so scared of Markenzie by that point.

Scared of Markenzie. Now, if he was going to kill us or Susan, we'd rather him kill Susan. And do you know what they said that Markenzie had told them? What? We're going to feed you to the alligators. Now, do you remember where this case took place? This happened in New York! This case happened in New York. They are

so far off on their geography. I don't know whether they had a local zoo with an indoor alligator exhibit or what, but they said Markenzie threatened to kill him with alligators. And so they had this story that they tried to back out. And so the Dateline interviewer says, well, you've got money. If you wanted to back out, why didn't you just give him $100,000 and say don't kill her?

Was it Andrea Canning? Andrea Canning. That's who it is, Andrea Canning. Why didn't you just give them $100,000 and say don't kill her? Was it Andrea Canning? Andrea Canning. That's who it is, Andrea Canning. Why didn't you just do that? And he said, well, we were afraid of them. They wouldn't do that. Andrea says, well, wait a minute. These guys would take $100,000 from you and kill somebody, but you didn't think they'd take $100,000 from you and not do it.

She says, that sounds easier for them. Oh, my gosh. And so he was stumbling and bumbling at this point he doesn't know how to answer the question of why didn't you give him a hundred thousand to call it off it was almost like he had never thought of that of that line of questioning so andrea or whoever writes the questions for for dateline or whatever just absolutely had him against the wall. So here we are. Bent over, really. It's like DP was earlier.

Had Ira bent over, so to speak. So here we are, and we're coming to a situation where he's going to go to trial. And they've got boatloads of evidence and all they've got is maybe the star witness who bails on on them and and tries to recant some of it but they got so much of him you know being stupid about the camera yeah yeah we want to we want to go ahead with it but you know we got to wait a little while and oh and and by the way you you do realize at this point that Mark Enzi is on our side. Right. Exactly. That was a fake deal you had.

And so they're struggling a little bit about how they're going to get through this. So as in a lot of these cases, I know this is let's go to court, but as in Brandy's case, they decide to offer him a deal. Now, you think she got off a little light? I'm telling you, this guy got off like you can't believe. He's a rich dude. Well, yeah, he's a rich dude. But think about that.

Okay, here's what he did. Conspiracy to commit murder. They basically got him on there. Insurance fraud. So not only is he in trouble from an insurance fraud standpoint, but I'm guessing your medical license is cooked. You're done with that. Unless you go to Georgia, maybe you can get it reinstated in Georgia.

And then conspiracy to commit assault because he thought he had had these two guys beat him up. So he's got these three. And those, for some reason, are – they're not felonies, those last two with the insurance investigators. Maybe because you didn't – you definitely said you didn't want them killed. Well, conspiracy to commit assault, that does sound like kind of small potatoes. OK. But insurance fraud, big potatoes. Yeah.

And there's probably – I mean a lot – Conspiracy to commit murder, huge potatoes. Yeah, huge of small potatoes. Okay. But insurance fraud, big potatoes. Yeah. And there's probably, I mean, a lot. Conspiracy to commit murder, huge potatoes. Loaded baked potatoes. Prize winning potatoes. You're getting all the fixings on that potato. Extra bacon. Okay. So what do you think he got as far as a sentence and then as far as earliest parole?

Kristen is looking over at my notes right now. No, I'm looking at your pencil. What does your pencil say? World's best dad. World's greatest dad. What's it say? From Kristen and Kyla. It says Walmart Visitor Center

Bentonville, Arkansas. Where Walmart history comes alive. I got this out of your pencil holder downstairs. No, you didn't. I'm sorry. Yeah, I was looking at where Walmart history comes alive and I was like, what the hell is that?'t. I'm sorry. Yeah, I was looking at where Walmart history comes alive and I was like, what the hell is that? So, okay, I'm sorry. Plea deal. Yes. Okay, he got, okay, he was sentenced to, oh gosh, you're just burping in the mic, aren't you? That's my job.

Sentenced to 20 years, but parole after five. Ten years. Boy, if you put those two together, you'd— Parole after five. Parole after five is exactly right. Fifteen-year sentence, parole after five. Wow. Again, I'm looking at that. Now, Susan, in the meantime, is going—so you've got a rich, smart lady who's going to her state representatives and anyone who will listen about getting the sentencing up on these kind of things.

Not that they're going to do anything about that one, but it just doesn't seem like it's – For the future, sure. And she's going in front of the parole board. She's not on the hook at all for knowing about the insurance fraud turning them in? No, it didn't say anything about that. That would be – We've got to let some stuff slide, Brandi. Brandy's

wanting her in jail. I'm just saying, she knew some shady shit was going on. She didn't call the police. She was benefiting from the shady shit, too. $40,000 a month on her credit card. So he says. Come on. That's true. That is true. After Brandy guessed five. Yeah. I don't think...

You won't want to see my credit card bill, Brandy. I was going to say. Five grand. So we're to the point now where they're both going to take the plea deal and they go to prison. But interestingly enough, they go to prison in 2017. What does that mean? I don't know. They're both out already.

Oh, shit. They both both out already. Oh, shit! They both are out. They are out. Just living their lives. And I did some effort in the research. That's ridiculous. Yeah. Well, they did their—

Four in five years. They didn't punch a guard, Kristen, on day one. They took that other judge's advice and didn't punch a guard when they got to prison. So that is the story of a murder for hire with an Academy Award winning hitman that didn't come through for him at all. Did they get back together after they were released from prison? I couldn't find – there are so many people named Ira Bernstein in New York that you'll go crazy. You think, oh, now he's an investment broker. And now he's – it's a very common name. You're bending over for everyone.

So anyway, that is – that wraps up that horrible case of Ira Bernstein. Wow. And again, I don't know whether he's got any – What a piece of shit. Yeah, no kidding. Well, and Brandy's all over Susan for knowing about that stuff. Brandy's a very strange person. I can't always listen.

All right. You know what time it is? Questions for DP. We will stop. Another. Don't wait for this. Another one for the playlist. Everyone, we are going into our Discord, which you can sign up for on Patreon. And we have asked the listeners for their DP questions. And boy, have they delivered.

We have. Taman13 wants to know, DP, are you ready for the wedding? Are you planning on sharing any embarrassing stories? Oh, the whole thing's going to be one big embarrassing story. I actually sat down with Brandy. I wish David

would have been able to be there. Why wasn't David there? You know, he got this new beard product and it can't touch the humidity for 48 hours. And so the timing of that just didn't work out the best. Too bad. I hope he can make it to the wedding. Are we sure this wedding is still going to happen?

Oh, yeah. Because here's my plan. Lots of embarrassment on the part of Brandy and just hoping, thoughts and prayers, hoping David is able to show up. What if I have him locked up because I'm afraid he's going to try and run away before the wedding? Runaway groom. Runaway groom, yes. Hey, how about hiring an actor to stand in? I mean, you get somebody who looks vaguely like David.

Nobody can match that ass. Oh. Oh, boy. Yeah. Like David? Nobody can match that ass. Oh. Oh, boy.

What if you did like butt implants in the actor? I mean, you can't treat that kind of – Dad, you're really making it expensive. Yeah. I think you just get some padding and you call it a day. That's true. I should have gone there. Everyone has got some extra throw pillows lying around. It's just an actor too.

I mean, we're not paying for his butt implants. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sorry. What are we, setting him up for life? Yeah. All of a sudden, he's on OnlyFans doing great. He's, you know, blown you out of the water. Any Hooters at the Emerald Club wants to know,

what things are best not to be frugal about, DP? What are you splurging on? Brand name Dr. Pepper. Are you off the Dr. Pepper? I'm pretty much off. I've had some. I noticed I didn't see you drink any on Sunday. I was – here's what I'm doing.

I'm working out more. I'm trying to be healthier and living my best life. And my best life doesn't really include Dr. Pepper. I'll still splurge. I had one, I'm going to say, a week ago. Okay. Enjoyed it. I'm to the point now where it tastes too sweet when you get off of something.

It tastes too sweet. No, seriously. I splurge on houses, as you know. We know. We know. We know this about you. And the good news about splurging on houses is for the most part they increase in value. Yeah, it's an investment.

Yeah. So unlike – splurge on cars, not so much. No. Now I will tell you as I've gotten older, I'm able to splurge on more things and so I do. So – I see. You're not even rocking the court classics anymore. Sharae Ray and I, we might order an app at a restaurant.

What? Yeah. That's big. That is where they get restaurant. What? Yeah, that's big. That is where they get you. And then they split that as an entree. But you did notice. I didn't. So at lunch today, water.

Healthy choice. Saving some cash. Got to go. We paid for your lunch. You didn't have to save the cash. I saved the cash for the podcast. Hey, I am 100% owner of this podcast. Wow.

Did you guys not remember that? I guess we forgot. To save the cash. I saved the cash for the podcast. Hey, I am 100 percent owner of this podcast. Wow. Did you guys not remember that? I guess we forgot. Oh, Brandy's Ho-Faze wants to know, DP, what did you want to do when you were a little kid? I wanted to be – I was making that up about Major League Baseball, but I was marginally athletic. And so I wanted to be – during baseball season, I wanted to be a baseball player. And during football season, I wanted to be a football player. But I got out of that phase fairly quickly because I stopped playing organized football or baseball or – yeah, baseball by the time I was in junior high.

So it faded pretty quickly. And I realized I probably needed to figure out something else besides, you know, a major league outfielder or wide receiver for the Chiefs. Yeah. Oh, I think this is a good one. And I think I know your answer. Slut for Books asks, DP, how would you react if a family member came out to you as LGBTQ plus? I have a shitty exclusionary family. I don't know how to get through to most of them. Any advice? Boy, it would be fine in our family. We went to an inclusive church where I'm going to say, what, 25%, 30% of the folks were gay and lesbian. So I wouldn't have any problem with it. I did a lot of work with the LGBTQ community at Hallmark and helping to get partner benefits. So personally, I wouldn't have any

problem with it. I really feel for those who deal with parents or deal with siblings or whoever that don't understand. And usually it's dug in for religious purposes. And so getting people off of their strongly held religious beliefs is really hard. But I do know that there are people who have changed because their kid came out. They didn't really know anyone and they felt like – Or they didn't think they knew anybody. They didn't think they knew anybody. And they felt like – Or they didn't think they knew anybody. They didn't think they knew anybody.

And their kid comes out and they are more open to the whole LGBTQ community now. But there are thousands of stories of where it goes horribly wrong and you can't get through it. So I say give it your best shot and have a – and try not to lose your cool as you're trying to talk to the person about it. But you do need to let them know and let them know kind of the situation and let them kind of spout off. And probably it's not a one-meeting deal. It's probably you meet and you hope to be able to meet and talk about it more and more because the more you are able to talk with your parent or your sibling or whoever it might be, the better chance you have to convince them that, hey, this is the way I was made. Yeah, this is who I am. This is my identity. This is me.

But yeah, tough situation. And I have – I tell you what. I've got friends that wouldn't handle it well. So I know what that might be like. So I feel for him or her in this situation and know that just take your time with it. But go ahead and try to have that difficult conversation and let them know. And get some therapy and let the therapist help with that process. Therapists are used to dealing with this stuff.

So we'll go back to your ad and say, you know, maybe better help will give you some ideas. We're turning this into an ad. But no, I, yeah, I think a therapist can help. I think also, maybe this isn't the right. I know I have some advice that I don't, maybe this isn't the right. I know. I have some advice that I don't know is the right thing either. Well, and yeah.

So my thought is sometimes you don't need to tell people. I had friends who were in the closet through college because they needed their parents' financial support. And I think that's really smart and really sad. Yeah. You know your family better than anybody. You're the expert in them. So if you think it's not the time to tell them. Yeah.

I the other thing I think is. You know, you if you want to have that difficult conversation, do it. But if they're nasty and abusive and shitty, like it's not your job to hold their hand and explain your own humanity to anybody. That's kind of along the lines of what I was going to say is that you can pick your family. Yeah. Your family does not have to be who you were born into and all of that. You can decide that that's toxic and not benefiting you in any way and move forward in a way that is healthy for you and supportive for you. You know what the best solution is?

Send your family – your shitty family members to DP. They'll get a lecture. Yeah. Dad, would you offer up your services as a – I would be glad to talk as long – I've got to get paid. What? You're not going to do this pro bono? Okay, pro bono, pro bono.

You know, it's interesting. I do have, at Hallmark, I worked in human resources and did a lot of, you know, what, counseling to the level that I was able to handle it and negotiation. And so, yeah, and my willingness to talk to people as long as I can keep them either on the phone or keep them in the seat, I'd be glad to help out. OK. All right. I know we just did a question for Slut for Books, but I actually think this is the perfect audience for this question. That Slut for Books has got some good questions. He wants to know any advice on asking for a raise at work.

Oh, yeah. Dad. Yeah, this is a good one. Yeah. Now, I will tell you that, you know, have your ducks in a row going in. Have some facts behind you as far as your performance and as much information as you can find out about where you stand in the workforce for comparable workers. Now, at the same time, I will tell you that many companies only give raises one time a year. So you can't just waltz in in the middle of a year when you've gotten a raise in February or whenever the regular raises are.

But be prepared. And I'll give you an example. This is even before I was in HR. I had a manager who worked for me, and he came in with literally a notebook, a three-inch binder. And, you know, we're going to talk about his – we do a performance evaluation. Then we sit down in a second meeting and talk about how does that performance relate to your increase? And he comes in with this big book and he was a good manager. He didn't have to do that. But I said, you know, kind of joking with him, OK, what's with the book?

And he says, well, I've just got some information that I want to be able to share with you to make sure that I feel like I'm getting the appropriate benefit out of out of working here. And we didn't he didn't even have to open the book. I said, well, here's where your performance lines up. It's all blank pages. It might have been. He's bluffing the whole time. But yeah, have your ducks in a row.

And here's the other thing. Be willing to walk. I mean no job, no company is the ultimate be-all, end-all. Because if it was, they'd be paying you appropriately. And so don't hesitate at all. And don't threaten them. Don't say, well, you're not giving me enough. I'm going to go to XYZ company. And look, don't threaten. But do look around at least every few years to see, am I being paid appropriately? How does that match up in the market? And there are, I'm sure, tons of good resources as to what the average hairdresser makes and everywhere else. And so I would just say, you know, don't go into it saying, give it to me because I deserve it.

But give it to me because I deserve it for X, Y, Z reason. And the more you can know about the situation, the better you are. If you know what other people are making and it's perhaps somewhat public knowledge, you can share that you know you're in the bottom 25 percent, but your performance is in the top 25 percent or something like that. So be ready to do it. It's a really good healthy exercise. My only real experience with doing it myself was I was being asked to take a job in – was it Ohio?

No, Indiana. Indiana. Because when Kylo moved to Indiana to go to school, I was asked to go take a job in Indiana as the HR guy in this plant. And I said, sure. And I just wrote down on paper, here's what I want. Did you slide it across the table real slow? I didn't slide it across the table.

I said, here's what I want. And they said, well, do you really want to go? Sure. Yeah. But for this money. For this, yeah. My wife's going to give up her job and she's going to have to get a job there. She's a nurse, so she can get a job there pretty easily.

But I'm not just going – and it was a short term. It was like a three-year assignment. I'm not just going just because you guys want me to go. Well, and they said, well, how about – I wanted like $12,000 more a year. And they said, well, how about like $3,000? I said, no, no, no. I'm not negotiating. This is what I want to go.

So know what you want I guess. And I didn't get, no, no. I'm not negotiating. This is what I want to go. So know what you want, I guess. And I didn't get the job. They found somebody who would do it cheaper. And so somebody else went and did it. So the one time you tried to do it, you failed. Exactly. And now you're on the podcast giving advice. Great.

I actually got some decent raises from time to time. No, I know. Where's T-shirt sometimes wants to need? Wants to need. Wants to know, DP, what are your favorite holiday foods? Will you ever trust sausage brunch at Kristen's again? Sausage brunch in your lap. I thought it was running down your leg.

It was. Well, that's what happens when you got sausage brunch and it hits your lap. It's going down your leg. Brandi that's what happens when you got sausage brunch and it hits your lap. It's going down your leg. Brandy doesn't know about gravity. So here's the deal. I pretty much like most of the holiday foods.

The Thanksgiving basics, love them. Turkey. Turkey. Ham. Ham. You know the difference between the two? Alright. I didn't learn it till i was like 30 okay yeah that's like so yeah stuffing stuffing yeah keep the onions at home stuffed up inside the bird no no did you see the look on my face i did yeah i wish the listeners could see the look on my face but just the standard stuff yeah i i go just the standard stuff. Yeah, I go for the standard stuff.

Not a super picky eater, but there's nothing real exotic when it comes to the holiday stuff. You're saying that because you're talking to Brandy. Yeah. Compared to Brandy, I'm not a picky eater. Now, if somebody's doing some seafood or something at Christmas, I am out. You are totally out on seafood. I love seafood. You are a less

adventurous eater than I am. No, Brandy. You're both children. You're bottom 5%. I'm bottom 10%. I think that's where we're at. Ooh, okay. All right. Bidets for Brandy

wants to know, DP, what's the best part about being married to Sheree Ray? Ooh. Well, there cannot be a more important choice in life than who you marry. And I hit a home run. You did. Hit a home run. Met Sherry senior year of college.

And we both knew fairly quickly that, you know that we were a good match. She just got me. To quote Ira Bernstein. Thank you for not saying the whole quote. But – so the question was … What's the best part about being married to Sheree Ray? Well, she is kind and compassionate. Except for when you don't order pizza.

Well, you know, sometimes I deserve it. Yeah, you deserved it that night. And she's very willing to tell me what I've done wrong. What I've done wrong. Let me give you a Sheree Ray quote. This was – so she's got a good sense of humor too. Yeah. She doesn't use it nearly as much as Kristen and I do. Yeah. But she's got a good sense of humor too. She doesn't use it nearly as much as Kristen and I do, but she's got a great sense of humor.

So one time she was – and I was actually a little bit irritated. So she was telling me, you know, you need to do this and that and this and that. And I was like getting irritated and I said, I don't need you to coach me on what to do in this situation. And she said, well, why did you marry me then? And this happened like two or three years ago. So we've been married a long time. But that is her sense of humor of when I'm getting somewhat like pushed back, irritated with her. She'll throw something like that.

Why did you marry me then? But gosh, it's been a wonderful, wonderful 42 years now. No, 41 years. We wonderful, wonderful 42 years now. No, 41 years. We're on our 41st year. And again, making that decision on who to marry, that is the biggest decision you'll make. What you're going to major in in college and what you're going to do for your job, that's nothing compared to who you marry. So, yeah.

That's true. Yeah, it is true. She is a wonderful, wonderful woman. And let me tell you, I'm a bit to put up with. Okay. Here, there's a part two to this question. Okay. They also want to know what would Sheree Ray say is the best part about being married to you?

Well, I'd like to think it was, you know, my outgoing personality and all those kind of things. I think that is true to a point. But she gets tired of the constant ha-ha-has and jokes and that kind of stuff. So she would probably – and this is going to get real basic here. But she has told me that if it wasn't for me and my financial focus, that we wouldn't be where we are today. We wouldn't be kind of living this life of doing whatever we want to do, traveling the country in a motorhome, living in a nice house, that kind of stuff. So she really kind of – but that's … I don't think she would say that. She probably wouldn't, but she has told me that.

No, and I believe it and it's totally true. But like you're a really good dad and a really good grandpa. And I think that's what she would say. She would. She would, yeah. And oh, you talk about a good nana. She – Oh my gosh. Isn't it always better for – oh, you talk about a good nana. She – Oh, my gosh.

Isn't it always better for – She's just a natural caregiver just in general. She's a better nana and mom than I am and she thinks I'm a better papa and dad than she is. So that crossover when you feel like you're not carrying all the burden, that's the worst case in a marriage is I feel like I'm pulling 70 percent of the weight. Yeah. Yeah. And I think Sherry and I both feel like we're both pulling 60 percent of the weight. So – no, we're both pulling 40 percent of the weight.

You can carry it in excess of 100 percent. That's right. It's true. Oh, dad. Anna wants to know how old is the oldest item in your wardrobe? Oh, lurd. Well, now. Oh, yeah, because they went down to the RV.

That's right. So he had to get rid of a lot of clothes. You didn't hold on to anything? I got rid of tons and tons of stuff. Literally, I'm not one. I'll purge some stuff out every once in a while. Right. But when we basically got rid of every piece of clothing we have except for what would fit into a 40-foot RV, you don't have a lot of stuff. So I bet – but even then, I probably got stuff older than what most people would have.

I've probably got t-shirts that I really like that I've had for 20 years. I've probably got T-shirts that I really like that I've had for 20 years. Yeah. And for sure, the only suit I kept is probably 30 years old. Very classy, though. Very classy look. Ooh. Okay.

Discount Magician, which I love that name, asks, DP, you always have so much confidence in yourself. I love it and am jealous. Is there anything that you feel insecure about or wish you could change? Well, I will tell you that that's one thing that drives Sherry crazy and other people crazy is I am way, way too confident. And it sometimes is really good. I always use this as a story about how overconfident I am. I was asked to preach a sermon one time at a church that we were members of, and decent-sized church, probably 150 folks there for this sermon I was giving.

And I looked out into the congregation, and I see a guy with his eyes closed. Now, Kristen, you've heard this story. In my mind at the time, I thought, he is meditating on the message I'm delivering. You didn't for one second think that guy was bored out of his mind and fell asleep? Afterwards, Brandy. Afterwards, I thought about it. You thought that man was just absorbing it all, sitting with the message. Can you imagine how much confidence?

That's so much. That's a shit ton of confidence. But the good thing is that as you're speaking, you know, can you imagine looking out? I would have been so rattled by that. But it was just one guy. It was just one guy. Everyone else was wrapped around that sermon. Oh, yeah.

And we're pretty sure that guy was dead. So, yeah, there are huge advantages because you'll ask for a discount in a store that you probably shouldn't ask for a discount in a store on. You'll try and negotiate anything and everything. You will – it probably doesn't always help when you're dealing with corporate officials at a higher level than you. And they see that confidence as nothing more than arrogance. Imagine. confidence as nothing more than arrogance. And so you say and do things that people who aren't used to people getting, you know, pushing back from three levels below. And so they become very disenchanted with you and it can hurt your career. But if you're happy at the career level you're at, you can do that. But the disadvantage

is it can come off as arrogant. And I'm sure I come off as arrogant. And that's just that's just the way. And Kristen, you probably come off as arrogant to people, too. No, I've never gotten that feedback. Never gotten that feedback. Joy to be around. Right, Brandy? That's absolutely correct. Should we do one last question? Yeah. I'm loving doing this. This is fun. I'm glad you're here.

Yeah, this has been amazing. Yes. And you did a great case. You did. Oh, this is interesting. Okay. My uncle was skin. My uncle what?

Was skin. My uncle what? Was skin. DP, I recently met a former co-worker of yours. Oh, my gosh. Oh, interesting. And he said you were a real rule bender. Care to elaborate? Well, that's the truth. Do we have a name now? No.

Oh, my. They've remained anonymous. That is absolutely true. Yes. And here's the deal. When you work in a job like human resources, I'm not an accountant. Yeah. There's no black and white answer.

So I would tend to bend a rule. I made sure I always bend it in the favor of the employee. So if the employee was having an issue with the manager, I would bend that rule to favor the employee. If it was an employee versus a corporate rule, I would bend the rule in favor of the employee. And I once had a – this may be – I may have figured out. I had a lady who was probably the smartest woman I had ever met in my life. She was a Stanford-educated lawyer at Hallmark. And she was working in the employee relations department. She was head of employee relations. And I had pushed her several times on partner benefits for our gay and lesbian employees.

She did not like it. And she called me one day and started telling me kind of the way things were going to be in this meeting we were having the next day. And I was trying to have a conversation about why I disagreed. Yeah. And she basically said, no, we're not talking about it. And she hung up on me. She didn't hang up. She wasn't talking about it. Yeah.

Yeah. It was abrupt. Yeah, it was abrupt. And so, again, I'm at the level I want to be. Yeah. I've got a good enough reputation that I'm not going to lose my job. She stands up there and says, we're only giving partner benefits in states where we're required to give partner benefits. And I am ready to jump in and say, well, the only reason we can do that is because of some racist laws that were in place where states could say we're not recognizing that in this state.

And I started doing that in front of the entire HR management team. And she shut me down and shut me up quickly. And unfortunately for her, she didn't realize that that would make her look really bad. Because I was just trying to explain something. And so this is done in front of my boss and my boss's boss. And my boss calls me and he says, why don't you go talk to her? He says, I'm sure you guys can talk through this. And I was like, I don't know.

And so he says, no, go talk to her because, again, he loved me. He just thought – He left you that piece of cake on your desk that one day. Well, we don't know where that came from. So I literally went and sat down in her office and she said, you make terrible decisions for Hallmark Cards. That was the first thing out of her mouth. Oh, my gosh. Brilliant woman.

Not a real people person though though, even though she was – She sounds sweet. Again, I kind of liked her because that's the way – she was just so blunt and direct. And this is the way it's going to be. And, you know, here's the bottom line. It wasn't her policy. She was having to implement that policy that came down from the board of directors. So it wasn't her policy.

that policy that came down from the board of directors. So it wasn't her policy. And she was going to stand up and she just didn't recognize that it would be better to let this guy talk in front of all of his coworkers. So bottom line, that meeting lasted literally 30 seconds. And I said, well, I don't know. There's a whole lot more for us to say because she saw me as a rule bender who would try to create opportunities for people and all this kind of stuff. But the cool thing about that meeting was I bet five or six people came up to me afterwards.

Really great move. I can't believe she shut you down like that because that wasn't what Hallmark was about. Hallmark was kind of a feely, touchy, let's talk it out. And she just was shutting the door on it. So it could have been that the person knew – that they knew was her. But again, I couldn't have more respect for the lady. I just think of times when I would be going to her with a difficult situation and she could understand the – both sides of the issue, the concepts and you could see why she was a Stanford law grad.

She's just the sharpest thing going. But that is absolutely correct. That is not made up. If I thought there was a way to twist an outcome without – I mean we're not breaking any laws or anything like that. But we might have been breaking some hallmark rules. There was no doubt about that. And so, yeah, yeah, that person, that's a great –

That's good. Oh, I so wish that they would have said who they were. Right, yeah. So this person who wrote it said it was a friend of a friend or – They said they recently met a former coworker of yours. Who said I bent the rules. That could be anybody. Yeah, because I've got some – I've got just a handful of friends that listen to the podcast that I'm aware of.

But they're the ones who are reaching out to me. Well, no, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying like you're trying to pinpoint the meeting where you develop this reputation. You like instilled in me and Kyla this distrust of authority and this kind of like, yeah, but why? You know, OK, that's the rule, but why? So that's just your vibe. So that was probably the biggest example of, you know, when you are a company that doesn't have partner benefits

and the whole country is going that direction and you are kind of trying to lead the charge from a very low position for that kind of a change. Yeah, you can have that reputation. But I did that all the time. I did that kind of

thing all the time. I'm probably very fortunate're a real badass. Well, I'm probably very fortunate that I spent 25 years there because the longer I was there and the more comfortable I got both in my job and financially, the more willing I was to say whatever. F it. Film the crack in. Did Phil work at Hallmark? I don't know. I don't know.

That was fun. That was so fun. Should we do some Supreme Court Inductions? This week we are reading your names and your first celebrity crushes. To get inducted, all you have to do is join our Patreon at the $7 level. That's the Supreme Court. Very sorry for leaving you hanging. Great level. Anyway.

Was I supposed to be? I thought that was just a Kristen thing. I'm sorry. You could absolutely jump in. What do you think we have you here for? Just to look good in the corner? I am a good looking guy. Amy P.

JTT. Cassidy Radke a good looking guy. Amy P. JTT. Cassidy Radke. Rachel Weiss. Caroline Hunter. Jonathan Taylor Thomas. Another JTT. Cheryl Shockey. Jonathan Taylor Thomas.

Very popular. Mary Eve. Prince Eric from The Little Mermaid. Oh, shit. Yeah. That guy was a stud, wasn't he? That was a hot cartoon. Valerie. Sean Cassidy.

Nicole B. Nick Carter. Monica Stevens. Joey McIntyre. Trisha Cepeda. Omar Epps from Love and Basketball. Same. That's how David got his nickname.

What's David's nickname? I don't know. Gross. Ew. What? Ew. Let's move on. Olivia Shaw.

Rupert Grint. Ooh. Specifically as Ron in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. Okay. I don't mean to crush, shame you, Olivia Shaw, but every person in that Harry Potter movie has the worst air ever. I think you do mean to crush Shane Hur. Okay.

I apologize for my judgment. Kristen W. Devin Sawa. Oh, specifically from Now and Then, though. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You see him running his undies in that one.

Calm down. He's a child. We were children then, too. But you're picturing it now as an adult with lust in your eyes. Katie Wilder. Michael Cera. What? That's the one person in the world. Alright. Elena Robinson. Chris Evans.

But the ginger English one rather than the one it's acceptable to have a crush on. I was five. I don't know what that means. I don't even know this off-brand Chris Evans. Alright. Okay. Yes. Okay. MV. Edward Furlong from Terminator 2.

Kelsey Ganley. Nick Carter. Two Nick Carters on this one. Sarah S. Jennifer Lopez. Stephanie Smith. Taylor Hansen. Welcome to the Supreme Court.

Did you start singing? I know I almost coughed. So I had to like pull it back in and it did sound like I was singing. I enjoyed it. Thank you everyone for all of your support. We appreciate it so much. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Patreon.

Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and then head on over to Apple Podcasts. Leave us a five-star rating and review. And then while you're at it, you know, doing stuff on the internet, why don't you subscribe to The Gaming Historian? Yeah, why don't you? And then be sure to join us next week when we'll...

We'll burp. We'll burp. When we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned! DP, you didn't want to whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. DP, you didn't want to get in on the podcast adjourned? You want to do it again? No. No.

It's a one-time deal. I lip synced. Oh, okay. He said watermelon. Watermelon. Yeah. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary.

And I copy and paste from the best, Secrets Uncovered, ChillingCrimes.com, Lohud.com, and True Crime Daily. I got my info from an episode of American Monster, an episode of Snap, Dalton Daily Citizen, the Chet Nugent, and the Court Record. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are of course ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff. Do, do, do, do, do, do.

Oh, boy.