Let's Go To Court! - 286: The Murder of Michelle Young

Episode Date: February 21, 2024

Jason Young called his sister-in-law in a panic. He told her that he’d been looking on Ebay for a purse to buy for his wife Michelle. Like a dummy, he’d printed out a few of the purses he’d been eyeballing, and then he’d left the papers in the printer and gone out of town for a business trip. He worried that Michelle would spot the printouts and ruin the surprise. Jason’s sister-in-law, Meredith Fisher, agreed to help out. But when Meredith arrived at the home, she sensed that something was amiss. And now for a note about our process. For this episode, Brandi copy and pasted from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Michelle Young” chillingcrimes.com “Silent Witness” episode Dateline “Michelle Young Murder: Husband Arrested Three Years After N.C. Mom's Death” ABC News “After Three Years Young Is Charged With Murder” by Lenora Carver, The Transylvania Times “Jason Young Gets Life in Prison for Wife's Murder” ABC News “Michelle Young murder case timeline of events” WRAL News “Jason Young's daughter spoke of him during 911 call” WRAL News “No third murder trial for Jason Young” by Travis Fain, WRAL News “State of North Carolina v. Jason Lynn Young” findlaw.com YOU’RE STILL READING? My, my, my, you skeezy scunch! You must be hungry for more! We’d offer you some sausage brunch, but that gets messy. So how about you head over to our Patreon instead? (patreon.com/lgtcpodcast). At the $5 level, you’ll get 55+ full length bonus episodes, plus access to our 90’s style chat room!  

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Pond. Let's go to court. On this episode... Oh, Jesus Christ.

I can't believe I almost read that. Okay, you go ahead. On this episode, I'll be talking about the murder of Michelle Young. And so will I. No, you will not. I didn't. I, you will not. I went in so confident. You did. You were just going to read the whole thing there.

Yep. Send that file over. I'll read you the case right back to you. That's right. They were the perfect couple. Yeah. What if I just sent this over to you and you read it for me? I mean, it could be a fun way to mix things up.

Don't you agree? Happy. Oh, well, it could be a fun way to mix things up. Don't you agree? Happy, oh, well, it's Happy Valentine's Day for us today, but when this comes out it won't be Valentine's Day anymore. So, happy belated Valentine's Day, everyone. I think they really appreciate that. I can tell. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah, absolutely. It's also Parade Day

here in Kansas City. Don't say it like that. You don't like the parade. I like watching the parade footage. I have zero interest in going to the parade. Too people-y. People-y. Yes. But you're a people person.

I am a people person. You're also a purple people eater. I'm not a purple people eater. I am a people person. I don't like being around large groups of people because I get anxious that I'm not going to be able to get out of the crowd. I have to have like a clear exit path.

Like that time you almost died in Victoria's Secret. Exactly. Exactly like that. Anyone who's worried, she did not really almost die, but in the Lifetime movie that they'll make about it, she will almost die. Trampled by push-up bras. That's right. That's right. No, so I like to watch it. In that movie, I guess the push-up bras. That's right. In that movie, I guess the push-up bras come to life. Sorry, I made an error there.

Continue. I like the idea of the parade. I like to watch it from the comfort of my home where there are a limited number of people. I don't want to be at the parade. Is this just because you weren't invited?

I think everybody was invited. No, I haven't. I don't think Taylor. I don't think Taylor Swift made an appearance at the parade today. Unfortunately, people, they were expecting a lot more people because there was a chance that she would be there. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, she's probably in some suite somewhere living it up. No, she's got to be on a plane to fucking Australia. Oh, boy, you're really keeping track. I read the whole article about it. Okay. About logistically if she could do the parade. Yeah. And it was like at the earliest flight she could get like on her own personal jet, obviously.

But the earliest she could get out of Kansas City would put her in Australia at 5 a.m. Friday. And she has a concert at 6 p.m. Friday. So people were talking about if she was going to do that or not. Anyway, I've voted way too much time to this. I'm worried that she wasn't going to catch her Southwest flight. She's not flying on Southwest.

You know what I think we should do right now? An ad? We should. Doodaloo. And we're back from the ad. Doodaloo. Doodaloo. Are you ready to hear a story?

Well, first of all, we just recorded a bonus episode for our Patreon. Oh, yeah. Hot new bonus episode out. Brandi hated the case I did. I sure did. I don't think you've ever hated a case more, honestly. Maybe it was up there for me. No, I hated Bold Guy more than that.

Oh. Yeah. See, the ones I love, you just can't stand them. No. I did a cringy one, folks. Super cringy. Super cringy. Check it out, won't you?

It's only $5 to cringe all day. Yeah, join us over there, won't you? Sure. All right, now can I tell you a story? Yes, yes. Okay. I am ready. All right.

It's terrible. Oh, great. Okay. Shout out to chillingcrimes.com. You know, one of my favorite sources. Truly, they have a very large piece on this case that covered the trial very thoroughly. So biggest shout out. Somebody creamed her jeans when she saw that.

I did. I did. Brandy, that's disgusting. Please don't talk about that. Okay, you said it. No, no. Sometimes you, that's disgusting. Please don't talk about that. Okay, you said it. No, no. Sometimes you do that imitation of me. Oh, it was me throwing my voice?

Yeah, yeah. I don't much appreciate it, thank you. Also to an episode of Dateline, in this case. It was a Keith Morrison episode, so. Oh, okay. I kind of liked it. All right, all right. Very good.

Are you ready? Yeah. Jason Young was kicking himself. It was November 3rd, day after your birthday, 2006. And Jason was in Virginia on a business trip when he realized that he had left some eBay printouts in the family office in his home back in Raleigh, North Carolina. Okay. More specifically, these were printouts of coach purses. Jason had been shopping for a belated anniversary present for his wife, Michelle, and now his bonehead move was going to potentially ruin the surprise. Why does your face look like that? Why did he print out?

I had the same fucking question. It's so weird to me. It is so weird to me, too. Okay. So Jason called his wife's sister, Meredith Fisher, and asked if she could go over to the house and retrieve the printouts in hopes that Michelle hadn't stumbled upon them yet. Jason thought his chances of that were pretty good as Michelle had been on her own

with the couple's two-year-old daughter, Cassidy, since he had left for his business trip the previous night. Michelle was also five months pregnant with the couple's second child, which was a boy. Meredith got the phone call from Jason and was like, absolutely, no problem. I'll head over, I'll grab the papers. I'm not even curious as to why the hell you printed out eBay listings.

It was just about one o'clock in the afternoon when Meredith arrived at Jason and Michelle's house. She went in through the garage. The garage door had actually been broken for a while, so she knew she could just manually lift it and then enter the house from there. They never locked the door that went from the garage to the kitchen, which I do have concerns about with the garage door being broken. Well, especially in the context of this story, I imagine. Yes. Okay. Yep. As soon as Meredith opened the garage door, though, she was surprised to see Michelle's car there.

She had assumed that she wouldn't be there when Jason had asked her to go over, but Meredith kind of shrugged it off and went into the house anyway. Immediately upon entering, though, Meredith said something just felt off. The house felt eerily cold. As she walked through the kitchen, Meredith noticed that Michelle's purse and keys were sitting on the counter, so she called out to her sister, but there was no response. Meredith continued to move through the house toward the stairs that would take her to the office, all the while listening for Michelle or Cassidy, her two-year-old niece, but all she heard was the

family dog, Mr. G. I like that. I like that too. She could hear him whimpering, but she couldn't tell where he was. Meredith made it to the stairs and she had just started to make her way up them when she noticed something at the top of the staircase. There was some kind of red substance all over the floor at the top of the stairs. Meredith initially thought it must have been like red hair dye, but when she reached the top of the stairs, she saw her sister lying on the floor face down. The red substance that Meredith had seen scene wasn't hair dye. It was blood and it was everywhere. Michelle was dead and it appeared she had been brutally beaten to death. She was lying in a pool of her own blood when Meredith found her. Meredith immediately ran to call 911 and as she did she heard a noise behind her. It startled her.

Was it the two-year-old? She was relieved to find out that the noise was just Cassidy, her two-year-old niece, emerging from her hiding place under the covers on the bed. Oh, my God. Brandy. I know. She clung to Meredith. She was physically unharmed.

And Cassidy asked her aunt for Band-Aids. She said that her mommy had boo-boos everywhere. Oh, my God. I hate you for telling this story. I know. I just can't even imagine. No. So Meredith gets on the phone with 911.

All the while, Cassidy is kind of like chattering to her in the background, telling her different things. And this is captured on the 911 call. You can hear her talking in the background. She kept saying the mommy has boo-boos everywhere kind of thing. She just kept saying lots of different things. And not all of it is what's the is relevant. No, no, no.

Audible. Not audible, but where you can understand what she's saying. I want to say legible, but that's not right either. Unintelligible is what they say when you can't. Intelligible, yes. Is that right? That doesn't seem right. I don't think that's right either.

Okay. Okay, it doesn't really matter. Well, you get it. You can't understand everything she's saying, but you can understand bits and pieces. I mean, she's two. So Meredith told the operator that she thought that Cassidy said there was somebody in the house. Obviously, she relayed everything that she had seen.

They told her to get out of the house, wait in the driveway for the police to get there. As she was waiting for police to come, the dispatcher did ask a few questions. Was there anybody that she could think of that Michelle, you know, might want to harm Michelle? Did Michelle have any enemies? Did she have any problems? Like, you know, who could have done something like this? And Meredith told the dispatcher that Michelle and her husband Jason did fight pretty frequently. But as far as she knew, it never rose to the level of like physical violence or anything like that.

She told them that she couldn't think of anybody who would want to harm Michelle. And she did tell them also along the course of this call that it appeared that Cassidy had been left at this scene with this for a very long time as there were little tiny bloody footprints all over the house. Oh, my God. Mm-hmm. I can't even imagine what that little girl went through. Wait, how long had... How long had this been...

How long had she died, basically? Not really sure. Okay. Michelle had been dead for several hours by the time the police got there. So it wasn't a matter of like days? No, no, no, no, no. I was starting to wonder why the husband hadn't called.

No, not days. Okay. Several hours, though. That's terrible. Yes. When paramedics arrived at the house, they confirmed that, yes, Michelle was dead and spoiler, had been dead for quite some time. Yeah.

They did check Cassidy over to see if she was injured, and she was not physically harmed. She had dried blood all over her feet from where she had tracked it through the house, and there was some on the bottom of her pajama pants, but no physical injuries to her. Police obviously did a thorough search of the scene, and it was kind of interesting.

Obviously, there was no sign of forced entry into the home, but the home was also not secured. They knew that because the sister had been able to come in no problem. There was some blood on the doorknob from the kitchen to the garage. They later were able to confirm that this was actually Michelle's blood. Likely that's the way her killer left the house. The house had not been ransacked in any way. This did not appear to be a robbery gone wrong, nothing like that. There was a couple of things missing from the home.

They were kind of weird. There were two drawers missing from Michelle's jewelry box that sat on top of her dresser. Like the entire drawer? The entire, yeah. So it's like a three-drawer jewelry box that sat on top of her dresser. Like the entire drawer? The entire, yeah. So it's like a three drawer jewelry box. Jewelry box. That's super easy to say. The top two drawers of it were completely gone.

Okay, that's weird. And then Michelle's wedding ring and engagement ring were gone as well. But that's all that was missing from the house. The house hadn't been ransacked. That just feels like a stage, like they tried to stage it like a robbery when it really wasn't. Like, hey, just so you know, I went through the jewelry box and here's proof because I took the drawers with me.

Right. So the husband did this. Oh, calling it this early? Well, I've been calling it from the get-go in my head to myself. Afraid I'm getting it wrong. I'm pretty sure I'm getting it right. All right. Michelle was obviously taken from the scene and processed. She was dressed in sweatpants and like a zip-up sweatshirt.

She was dressed in sweatpants and like a zip up sweatshirt. Rigor mortis had already set in like hours had passed since she had died. There was blood everywhere in the bedroom. That's where she was found in the primary bedroom. So there were two closets in this primary bedroom, like a his and hers closet. They were labeled that way, which i think is kind of weird but she was found in front of the one marked his closet and there was a little doll placed right by her head oh would you cut it the fuck out i think that's it i think yeah i know yeah as i've been researching it all i can think of is this day i i'm sure that i told you about this day when this happened. It was this summer.

David was homesick. This was when David got shingles and London had the stomach bug. So they were both homesick together. I was texting David all morning because I was at work. And all of a sudden he stopped texting me. And an hour went by that I could not get a hold of him. And so I'm just picturing in my head that something has happened to him. Yep. And he's on the floor in our house. And London is sitting next to him trying to wake him up. So I left work. I couldn't get a hold of him.

I left work. Yeah. Went home. I walk in the door. London comes running up to me. And she goes, Mommy, you're home. Oh, God. And I'm freaking out.

I've cried the whole way i'm like panicked that something has happened yeah and i walk in and it turns out that david had just fallen asleep he was so sick yeah and just like he felt terrible but he had fallen asleep no he should not have well enough to be taking care of somebody else like yeah no no, it was just, he was just so sick. And like, so I wake him up and I'm just standing there. I wake him up. I'm standing there crying. Yeah.

And he's like, oh my God, what are you doing here? What are you doing here? And I was like, I've been trying to get a hold of you for an hour. That's something terrible happened. He has like never felt worse about something in his life. I was like, you did nothing wrong. Yeah. Like, this is not that you did something wrong.

I just, I couldn't get a hold of you, and I was panicked. Yeah. Yeah. Because I like a picture. Was London not being able to wake her daddy up? Yeah. Anyway, glad I told that story when this little girl has been through this horrible traumatizing thing. Well, you didn't make it worse. No.

Or better, though. Or better. Didn't make it better. Ugh. As police were processing the scene, Meredith called her and Michelle's mother, Linda Fisher, and told her what she had discovered, what had happened. Linda then called Jason's mother, her name business meeting that he was in Virginia for. And he was en route to his mother's house in perhaps you can help me with pronunciation. Brevard, North Carolina. Brevard? You ever heard of this?

Spell it. B-R-E-V-A-R-D. Brevard. Brevard. No, I have no idea. Okay. Anyway, she lived in Brevard, Brevard, Brevard, North Carolina. So he was driving from this business meeting that he was at in Virginia to his mom's house in Brevard, North Carolina.

Hang on. I have to know now. Okay. Okay. Because if he's driving down from Virginia, well, gosh, that's quite a drive. Okay. Yeah, it would be like a several-hour drive to his mom's house, so then it's a shorter drive home the next morning.

He was going to spend the night. His mom had some furniture she was given him and whatever. So he is en route. That's the only reason, I believe, that Linda called his mom rather than calling him. And as soon as he arrived there that night, his stepdad told him what had happened. He called and talked to Meredith at that point. And Meredith told him at that point that the police were telling him, like, telling her, like, this is a homicide. Like, this is this was not an accident.

Like, this is. Oh, no. I don't think that they had let him in on all of the circumstances of everything at this point. I'm sorry. I'll calm down. He found out that something had happened to Michelle. And then once he talked to Meredith, she's like, no, it's like really bad. She's she was brutally murdered.

Immediately, Jason and his family got in the car and headed back to to Raleigh to be there for all of this investigation and everything and be there for Cassidy. And when they were en route to Raleigh, Jason kept getting phone calls from his friends. They were like, hey, we got a call from the police. Like they said something bad's happened. And they're asking questions about if you guys are having marital problems and stuff. Like what's going on? Like just trying to get, you know, more information.

It seems like this investigation like really ramped up very quickly. At that point, Jason called and spoke to an attorney. And the attorney said, don't answer any questions. Yep. Don't even meet with the police. Oh, well, I don't know about that. Wouldn't you want to meet with them with your attorney just so you can give them information? That's sure what I would think.

But this is what he says. This is what he says is the advice he was given. And so I believe it. I mean, yeah. As soon as he got back to Raleigh, the police were like, OK, let's go. Let's go talk. And he's like, I will not be sitting down with you on the advice of my counsel. And they were like, okay, can we just get like a basic

statement about where you were last night? And he just repeated the same thing. I will not be making any statements on the advice of my counsel. I know that looks really bad, but it's very smart. It's very smart. I agree. It's very smart. And so police were like, cool. And this, I believe, pretty quickly got reported that Jason was not cooperating with the investigation. So now police are like, fine, I guess we'll figure out, we'll retrace his steps on our own. Yeah. Figure out where he's been. So they put together that on November 2nd, Jason had left Raleigh to go to Virginia.

So he had a sales call at 10 a.m. in Clintwood, Virginia on Friday morning. So that would be about a five-hour drive from home. So he was splitting the distance. He was driving about two and a half hours this night, staying overnight and then driving the rest of the way in the morning. They also learned that Michelle had made plans with Jason being gone. She was going to have her friend over to the house to watch Grey's Anatomy. Well, it was 2006. Yes.

Yeah. So they reached out to Shelly Shod. Shelly was Michelle's friend. And she said, yeah, absolutely. I came over to Michelle's house last night. I got there about 630 p.m. Jason was actually still there when I got there. And we invited him to go get some dinner with us. And Shelly said that Jason had said, said no thank you, that he was going to eat. He had plans to eat at Cracker Barrel on his way to Virginia. Okay. He had booked a room at the Hampton Inn in Hillsville, Virginia for the night. He planned to stay there before driving from Hillsville to Clintwood the next morning for his sales call.

He worked in like medical software sales or something like that. So he has like a sales call at like a doctor's office, I believe. Shelly told the police that after Jason left, she'd helped Michelle give Cassidy a bath, got her in her PJs, put her to bed, and then the two of them had watched Grey's Anatomy. She said that while they were sitting there that night, you know, watching TV and just, you know, hanging out, Michelle had told her that she and Jason had been having a lot of problems in their marriage. She said that they had been fighting a lot. And the big thing that they were fighting about was that Michelle wanted her mom, Linda, to come stay with them for the holidays.

She wanted her to come at Thanksgiving and stay through Christmas. Oof. And, yeah, and Jason didn't want her to stay for that length of time. But Michelle has a two-year-old. She's got a baby on the way. She needs help. Yeah. Okay.

Shelly also told police that, like, the feeling in the house had just been weird that night. She felt an eerie feeling the whole night. That's how she described it. She felt like she was being watched. She said she couldn't explain it, but she felt it so much that she actually asked Michelle to walk her to her car at the end of the night. Yeah. And so sometimes— Her car that's supposedly, I assume, in the driveway, right?

Yeah, just in the driveway, yeah. And this is a really nice neighborhood and a nice part of Raleigh. Raleigh. Raleigh. That's the second time you've done that. Is it really? Oh. It's definitely Raleigh, folks.

It's not Raleigh. So it's this, I mean, big brick home in a very nice neighborhood. But, yeah, Shelly just had this feeling that something was off. She asked Michelle to walk her to her car and she did. She said it was sometime between 10 and 1030 and she left. Police talked to a few people in the neighborhood to see if anyone had seen or heard anything of note in the hours between when Shelly left and when Meredith had discovered her sister dead the next day.

A woman named Terry Tiller told police that she was delivering newspapers in the area where Michelle's house was on November 3rd between 3.30 and 4 a.m. She said she saw a light colored SUV parked oddly in front of the house. It was either in the yard or it was on the street right in front of the house. She remembered it sticking out to her but couldn't remember exactly where it was positioned. Yeah. Another woman named Cynthia Beaver noticed a light-colored, she described it as a soccer mom car, parked at the edge of the driveway of the Young's house around 520 that morning. She believed there was a white male seated in the driver's seat, and she thought maybe there was somebody in the passenger seat.

Maybe a woman, but she couldn't be sure. A third woman, Faye Hensley, said she drove past the Young's house at around 6.15 that morning, and she saw an empty SUV parked kind of oddly at the edge of the driveway. I cannot believe how many witnesses there are to this. That's kind of incredible. Yeah. Over a pretty big time span. We're talking 3.30 to 6.15 a.m. Well, and they parked so unsubstantial that everyone notices it. Yes. Okay. So with that information, they're like, okay, let's see if we can confirm Jason's whereabouts. We know what his plan was. Let's see if we can confirm it. So they retraced his movements. They did figure out that after he left their house in Raleigh that evening that he stopped off at a gas station around 7.30 p.m., filled up his white Ford Explorer.

Hmm. Light-colored SUV, perhaps? He called his mom. His mom was like, hey, when you come back tomorrow, you should stay the night and we'll get you the furniture and everything. You can drive back home on Saturday. And Jason was like, yeah, I'll have to call Michelle and see if that's OK. But yeah, I like that plan, you know, that kind of thing. Why'd you make his mom sound kind of flirty?

I didn't mean it to be flirty. What did I say that was flirty? I don't know. It was just a vibe. I think she just wants to spend some time with her son. Well, we don't know. It was just a vibe. I think she just wants to spend some time with her son. Well, we don't know

the way you said it. Goodness gracious. After Jason spoke to his mom, he continued on his journey to Virginia. Did stop off at a Cracker Barrel in Greensboro.

What? Well, he didn't write down. I think that's still in North Carolina. I don't think he's made it to Virginia yet. Yeah, yeah. Okay. There's a Greensboro in North? Well, he didn't write down. I think that's still in North Carolina. I don't think he's made it to Virginia yet. Yeah, yeah. Okay. There's a Greensboro in North Carolina.

Excellent. He ate dinner there around 925 p.m. And then he, what was that look for? No, it's nothing. It's just a really late dinner. He's a young guy on the road. I don't know. I do think it's kind of a late dinner.

Yeah, thank you. All right. What'd he order? That I don't know. I do think it's kind of a late dinner. Yeah, thank you. All right. What'd he order? That I don't know. God damn it. What I do know is from there, he checked into the Hampton Inn at 10.54 p.m. He entered his hotel room using a key card at 10.56 p.m., and that key card was never used again. He took advantage of the express checkout the next morning, and so the hotel does not know what time he left.

Police, when they looked at his call records, his phone records, they found that he had placed a call to his mother the morning of November 3rd at 7.40 a.m. And that call placed him near Wytheville, Virginia. Oh, wow. Beautiful. Virginia. Oh wow beautiful. Yeah and then they were able to confirm that he arrived at his sales call in Clintwood Virginia that morning but he was 30 minutes late to it. Okay. So police then obtained the surveillance footage from the hotel where Jason had stayed and they saw him checking in at the front desk and walking down the hallway toward his room. It appeared that Jason had not left his room at all after he'd entered that day. But upon further analysis of the surveillance footage, police thought that it had been tampered with.

No way. Yeah. Okay. There was like a big gap in the timeline of the footage. Like it went dark at one point. Wow. Yeah. Okay. There was like a big gap in the timeline of the footage. Like it went dark at one point. Wow. Yeah. So this would require some more investigation.

But they believed that this likely meant that at some point after midnight, Jason had tampered with the security camera. Absolutely. Tampered with the security camera. He'd left his hotel, driven back to Raleigh, killed Michelle, and then driven to Virginia for his sales meeting. So then they're looking further into Jason and Michelle and their relationship. And a search of the Young's computer revealed that at some time they were not able to give a timeline on this. This is just a search that was done at some point on their family computer. There were internet searches for the words anatomy of a knockout, head trauma blackout, head blow knockout, and head trauma. Investigators believe that Jason Young was responsible for the brutal murder of his pregnant wife, Michelle.

But they didn't have a lot of evidence to back that up. Well, I mean, this isn't too bad. It's not bad. It's not bad. There's no physical evidence at this point tying him to the crime. Over the course of the investigation, they did discover that the couple was having financial issues. That's all the articles really say. discover that the couple was having financial issues. That's all the articles really say. I don't know what that means exactly. And there's no mention of what Michelle did for work. I don't know if she's a stay-at-home mom.

I don't know if she's working. I don't know what the situation is. But they were having some kind of financial issues. And they discovered that Michelle had multiple life insurance policies. Well, let's just close this case right now, boys. One source said she was insured to the tune of $4 million. Give me a break. OK. Yeah.

So on the Dateline episode, they talk about this and how at one point, I think she talked to her mom about how much life insurance she had. And she's like, I think it's like a million dollars. Isn't that a lot? Don't you think that's a lot? And then it turns out it was actually way more than that. Yeah. They also discovered that over the course of his marriage, Jason had engaged in multiple extramarital affairs, including one that was currently going on with Michelle's good friend and former sorority sister.

Ew. Yep. Not Shelly. No. Not Shelly. No, not Shelly. Okay. There's another woman named Michelle, actually. Shut the fuck up. Does Michelle only hang out with people

who have some version of Michelle as their name? Because Shelly is kind of a nickname for Michelle anyway. It's not kind of, it is. Yeah. It is. Yeah. That's bizarre. That is bizarre.

All right, okay. But there was one piece of evidence at the scene that they couldn't figure out. There had been footprints left at the scene, presumably by the killer. Yeah. They were determined to be made from a size 10 athletic shoe, but Jason wore a size 12. As they put together this theory that Jason was responsible for the murder of his wife, they thought that these prints may have been a decoy. They were like a little bit too perfect. Okay.

But there was another shoe print that had been left at the scene. It was only a partial. And so that became like the focus of this investigation, identifying that partial shoe print. And it was like a monumental task. It took years. Years? Yes. Finally, investigators got a break.

The partial shoe print was determined to be from a size 12 hush puppy orbital. This was Jason's shoe size. orbital. This was Jason's shoe size. And they were able to confirm that Jason had purchased a pair of size 12 Hush Puppy orbitals in July of 2005. Wow, they really did their homework. They really did. It took them like three years, but they did it. With that, they were like, okay, this is enough now. And in December of 2009, three years after Michelle's murder, Jason Young was arrested and charged with her murder. He pled not guilty. In the meantime, other stuff had been going on over the course of this three years. Michelle's family had brought a civil wrongful death suit against Jason. Yeah. And it had been decided in their favor.

They were awarded a $15.6 million judgment. Wow. Yeah. They had also successfully petitioned the court for the custody of Cassidy. That's exactly what I was wondering. Okay. Meredith got custody of Cassidy. Did you hear my stomach? I did. Meredith got custody of Cassidy. Did you hear my stomach?

I did. I am very sorry, everyone. I'm super hungry. I ate some crackers. It's not doing the trick. It's not enough, apparently. I apologize. Okay. You know what I think we should do right now?

An ad. An ad indeed. Toodle-oo. And now we're back from the ad. Toodle-oo. So that was going on in the meantime. Finally, like, so the family knew this whole time. They're like, this is Jason.

And they had a civil suit to say, you know, yeah, he's been deemed responsible for this. And they were able to get Cassidy. He didn't even fight the custody. That's interesting. I agree. Okay. He's asked about it later. That's interesting. I agree. Okay. He's asked about it later. Mm-hmm.

And he said basically like all my money was tied up in defense attorneys for me being considered a suspect in my wife's murder so I didn't have a choice. Okay. Yeah. Jason Young's murder trial began on May 31, 2011. The prosecution told the jury that Jason and Michelle were having marital and financial problems and that Jason no longer wanted to be married.

They told the jury about how they discovered that he was having multiple affairs, had had many affairs over the course of their marriage. They told the jury that that night he checked into the Hampton Inn in Hillsville, Virginia. And at some point he left during the night. He managed to unplug a surveillance camera that was in the hallway. He propped an emergency exit door open with a rock so that he could come to and from the hotel or from and to, you know, you know what I'm doing. You know what I'm saying.

Side to side. Without having to go through the main lobby of the hotel where he would be spotted. And they actually went to every gas station along the route he would have had to take and to see if anybody had come in and paid cash for gas like in the middle of the night. And they got a hit. Wait, how many years afterward were they doing this? They did that pretty early on in the investigation. I mean, the whole investigation lasted three years. So sometime over the course of that three years, they started this. They got this theory together and they started going to all these gas stations and taking in a picture of Jason and being like, did this person come in and buy gas?

They would have paid cash, you know, probably in the middle of the night. And they got a hit at a gas station. There was a woman who remembered him. Wow. And she only remembered him. Wow. And she only remembered him because he'd been a dick. Shut up. Yes. He had come to the gas station at like 5 o'clock in the morning.

Uh-huh. He'd fucked with the pump and then he came in and yelled at her that he couldn't get the pump to work. And she's like, right, you have to prepay at this time of day. And so he'd thrown $20 on the counter. He'd pumped $15 of gas and left without coming in and getting his change. Wow. Yeah. Day. And so he'd thrown $20 on the counter. He'd pumped $15 of gas and left without coming in and getting his change. Wow. Yeah. Way to make yourself memorable.

No kidding. So anyway, so the prosecution told the jury all about that, too. The prosecution told the jury everything that Michelleelle had gone through yeah she had been strangled and beaten to death and likely her two-year-old daughter had witnessed the whole thing yeah and then her two-year-old daughter had been left alone in the house with her mother's body the prosecution says that this is strong evidence that Jason is the one who did this because they didn't want to harm the little girl. Instead, if this was somebody else, if this was an intruder or whatever, likely wouldn't have had that same result. But I don't think that's right. I don't know that

it's a very strong argument. I think there are people who would definitely kill a grown woman, strong argument. I think there are people who would definitely kill a grown woman but not kill a child. A two-year-old child. Yes. I'm still on their side on this one. I just think that's... Yeah. The jury was shown pictures of her little tiny bloody footprints throughout the house. No, that's enough. The jury was then shown surveillance footage from the Hampton Inn from 10.49 p.m. on November 2nd. They show the footage and then at 11.20 p.m. on that footage it goes black. The prosecution told the jury that it went black because that's when Jason tampered with the camera so that he could prop open the security door and be able to leave without needing to use his key card. They put an employee from the hotel on the stand.

His name was Keith Hicks. He said he discovered that the first floor emergency door had been propped open with a small rock. That door was to remain locked between 11 p.m. and 6 a.m. He also testified that he had observed that camera in the stairwell. He noticed that it was unplugged. When he took note of all this, he noticed that that camera in the stairwell. He noticed that it was unplugged. When he took note of all this, he noticed that that camera was unplugged, and he plugged it back in at 5.50 a.m.

But later that same day, another staff member sometime around 6.34, 6.35 a.m. noticed that camera was pointed directly at the ceiling. I'm surprised you can fuck with a security camera this much. No kidding. Yeah. Okay. The prosecution told the jury that they believed Jason had unplugged that camera so that he could prop the door open so that he would have an alibi.

He was at the hotel. He never left. This is a pretty good case, honestly. I know. And then when he came back and discovered that it was plugged back in, he pointed it up to the ceiling before it could capture any image of him. Yeah. Yeah. Prosecution told the jury that Jason had to have stopped for gas on his way back.

They said he'd stopped in a gas station in North Carolina at 5 a.m. And they put Gracie Calhoun, the attendant from the gas station, on the stand. And she said that she remembered the interaction because Jason was so angry. She said, I don't forget nothing like that when somebody's cussing and fussing at me. Sure. Yeah. I do love that nugget of this case. Yeah.

That nugget of this case. Yeah. She said the man drove a white SUV and that he had pulled up to the farthest pump. He tried to pump gas multiple times and then he'd stormed in mad that the pump wasn't working. And she was like, yeah, you have to prepay at this time of day. And he'd thrown a $20 bill on the counter. Wait, are you retelling this whole story? I'm just reiterating this is her testimony. Everyone, he left the $5 in change.

He never came for the change, folks. The prosecution told the jury about the state of Michelle and Jason's marriage. People close to the couple believed that they only got married because Michelle got pregnant with Cassidy. Oh, yeah. Meredith Fisher, Michelle's sister, took the stand, and she testified that she had told Michelle to leave Jason multiple times. Mm-hmm.

But Michelle hadn't done anything. Well, I mean, it sounds like she was pretty damn busy with a 2-year-old, and she's 5 months pregnant. Exactly. Yeah. Especially if she wasn't working at that point. I imagine you'd feel pretty stuck. Yep.

A friend of Jason's took the stand and said that about three weeks before Michelle's death, Jason had told that friend that he was, quote, done with his relationship with Michelle. Well, yeah, you've been cheating on her constantly. So, OK. Yep. The prosecution told the jury that Jason and Michelle argued a lot. And a lot of those arguments were specifically about Linda, Michelle's mother. Linda loved to visit her daughter and her granddaughter. And she would visit frequently.

And she'd stay for long periods of time. She wanted to move to North Carolina so that she could be closer to her daughter. She had actually offered to do some renovations on the house and actually move in there, have like a mother-in-law suite. And Michelle loved the idea and Jason hated it. And it had resulted in a lot of arguments. Yeah. Linda took the stand and testified about all of that. She also testified about the moment that she found out that her daughter was dead. She said she got a call from Meredith and that Meredith had said, Mom, Michelle is dead.

Linda asked Meredith what she meant. She's like, something happened? Did she pass out? Like, what do you mean? What do you mean? And Meredith said, no, no, she's no longer alive. Linda testified that she did actually call Jason immediately after she got off the phone with Meredith. But Jason didn't answer the call and he never called her back.

So instead she called his mom and then he got the information from his mom. So instead she called his mom and then he got the information from his mom. Linda testified that in the time that she spent at Jason and Michelle's house, she witnessed a bunch of fights between Jason and Michelle. She told the court that Jason belittled Michelle. She also testified that she had told Michelle to leave him, but Michelle said she wanted to make their marriage work. She also testified that Michelle had confided in her about her sex life with Jason. And she said that Jason didn't make love to her. Instead, he was very perverted about sex. Linda didn't elaborate on that more. I don't think she asked any questions

when she said that. She just said it made her have concerns about their relationship. Yeah. There was also a friend of the couple's who talked about on the Dateline episode about how Jason would make really inappropriate jokes in large groups of people like often exposing himself as a joke ew yeah ew fuck off yeah okay yep linda testified that jason would often have female friends stay over when michelle was away either like visiting her mom or something like that l Linda told the jury she had so much to offer. There was so much about Michelle that was just she was a cheerleader. I mean, she had that pep, that energy, that vivacious, you know, she loved life. And he took it away from her.

He just took it away from her. Linda testified about one of her last interactions with Michelle. She'd come to visit. Linda was sitting on the couch and Michelle was laying with her head in her lap. And she said she was stroking Michelle's hair. And she said she just felt an emptiness in her daughter. And at that, during that interaction, Michelle confided in her that she felt like she had nothing left to give to her marriage. Linda talked about how they had done the fight for custody of Cassidy and how there was a little bit of back and forth at the beginning. And then finally, Jason just gave full custody to Meredith. Jason just gave full custody to Meredith.

Linda testified that she believed that was because he didn't want the questions that would be asked if they went through full court proceedings. Okay. One of Jason's friends, a woman named Carol Ann Sowerby, testified. She told the court that she had known Jason since they were teenagers and that she had visited him in the fall of 2006. Carol told the jury that during that trip, which took place just 10 days before Michelle's death, that she and Jason had had sex on their living room couch while Michelle was out of town. She also testified that there was like a weird interaction kind of at the end of that night where Jason took

her wedding ring off because Carol is married. Took her wedding ring off pretended to swallow it and said you're not getting that back. What? But then the next day he gave it back to her. Yeah.

This dude sounds weird as fuck. He sounds really weird. I think this testimony is meant to show you that he has a pattern of removing people's wedding rings because there's another piece of testimony that's going to come forward where he removed somebody's wedding ring, and then Michelle was found somebody's wedding ring. And then Michelle was found without her wedding ring. How awkward is it when you have an affair and then you have to testify about it in court? Yeah, it's pretty awkward.

Oops, fudge stripes. Okay. Prosecution then called Michelle's friend Michelle Money. I'm sorry. Too many Michelle's. No shit. Michelle's and Shelly's all over this thing. Michelle testified that she was one of Michelle Young's college sorority sisters and that she believed that her husband had been unfaithful to her. And so she met Jason at a wedding that both she and Michelle attended.

And because she was angry or upset that her husband, she thought her husband was having an affair, she then began a relationship with Jason. What a cool thing to do to your friend. Super cool. Is this guy super hot or what's his deal? No, I don't think he's hot at all. Is that just because you hate him because he's a murderer?

Might be. I don't know. No, I mean, he... I mean, he wears hushpuppets. I know how much you love that. He's definitely had a transformation because this spanned such a long time. And part of the proceedings, he has really long hair, which I am not a fan of. So maybe I'm biased. Okay. I did hair, which I am not a fan of. So maybe that maybe I'm biased. Okay. I did not find him attractive at all. All right. So she said she met Jason through

Michelle, obviously, at a wedding that they both attended. And then she started up, you know, having some kind of relationship with Jason. They talked constantly. And she said, They talked constantly. And she said by the end of September 2006, she was in touch with Jason on a regular basis. Jason even visited Michelle in Orlando in October of 2006. He said he was going on a business trip. Instead, he went to Florida and banged Michelle's friend. Super fucking cool. Yeah.

And banged Michelle's friend. Cool. Super fucking cool. Yeah. By this time, they were in constant contact with each other. In the month of October in 2006, they contacted each other 980 times. And on the day before Michelle Young was murdered, Michelle, Money, and Jason were in contact 51 times on that day alone. So was she in the vehicle?

As far as I know, nothing was at, there was no accusations ever made to Michelle being involved in any way, having any knowledge of this in any way. I mean, she probably wasn't. I was just curious because that one. Right, because the one person said, I think maybe there was possibly a woman in the passenger seat. Michelle Money was actually the last person Jason talked to on November 2nd and the first person he talked to on November 3rd. Michelle testified that they would talk regularly about work and life and kids. The prosecution then called Dr. Thomas Clark to the stand. He was the doctor who had performed the autopsy, and he testified that Michelle had died from blunt force trauma to her head and that she had sustained at least 30 blows. had likely been inflicted with a heavy blunt object featuring a round surface that caused crescent-shaped skull fractures. They never did locate what this item might have been or identify it. Dr. Clark testified that there were signs that Michelle had been strangled.

She sustained a broken jaw, skull fracturing, brain hemorrhaging, lacerations, abrasions, and dislodged teeth. Oh, gosh. She had been brutally beaten. Yeah, yeah. Meredith took the stand and testified about finding Michelle's body and finding Cassidy in the house and about the footprints. I'm not going to talk about it anymore. Yeah.

Then they introduced the evidence about the bloody footprints that were found, the shoe prints that were found at the scene. Agent Michael Smith of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the FBI, if you're nasty. And Agent Andy Parker of the Raleigh-Wake City County Bureau of Identification. And Special Agent Karen Moreau of the State Bureau of Investigation talked about those bloody footwear impressions and how much work went into identifying the partial shoe print. And ultimately, they were able to identify that it was a size 12 hush puppy orbital. And then they were able to determine that on July 4th, 2005, Jason had purchased that exact shoe. They never found that shoe?

Well, no, of course not. Yeah. The prosecution did tell the jury that there was no evidence Jason had ever physically assaulted Michelle previously. But they said that didn't mean that he couldn't have done it that night. They said he was absolutely capable of physical violence. And they called his former fiance, Genevieve Cargill, to the stand to testify about that.

Genevieve testified that she was the victim of domestic violence at the hands of Jason. Wow. She told the court about one incidence in particular, which involved Jason forcibly removing her engagement ring. What the hell? She said they were at a wedding in Texas and Jason was extremely intoxicated. And they argued about how drunk he was. And he became angry. And he demanded that Genevieve give the engagement ring back.

Genevieve said she couldn't get it off her finger. Like her hands were swollen. It was too tight. She couldn't get it off. And so they're in this hotel room and she said, I had never seen him like that before. His eyes were completely empty and deserted and glazed over like he wasn't seeing me. She said he was throwing her back and forth between the two beds in the room trying to get the ring off and finally he pulled it off hurting her along the way. Of course. She also said this was not a once-off incident. She said there was another incident that involved him breaking the windshield of her car by punching it with his bare hand. Yeah. She said he also damaged a wall in their apartment when he punched it.

She said after she had called off their engagement, she had gone completely no contact with him and years had passed without her hearing from him at all. And then out of nowhere on September 12th, 2006, she gets an email from him. And in it, he tells her that he loves her. Oh, shut the fuck up. Yeah. Yeah, we're talking like two months before Michelle is murdered. This guy, get out of here. Yeah.

the prosecution then called a daycare worker named Ashley Palmatier who worked at the daycare where Cassidy went and she talked about something interesting that Cassidy did shortly after her mother was killed she said she was playing with these dolls and she started hitting one of the dolls with the other doll. And she said, Mommy's getting a spanking. And then she said, Mommy has boo-boos all over. There's red stuff all over. They did have Cassidy sit down with a child psychologist to try and see if she could remember anything. But she was not. She completely shut down. She wouldn't give any information from it.

So this is the prosecution's best effort at showing, like, she witnessed something terrible and it is bleeding over into her life. She's acting out violence that she witnessed. Sure. Then it was the defense's turn. And they did the thing we love. Look, my client's a piece of shit. That's right. I hate him myself.

That's right. But he's not a murderer. That's exactly right. I hate him myself. That's right. But he's not a murderer. That's exactly right. They said Jason is far from the ideal husband. He might just be a piece of shit. But here's what he's not. A murderer. A killer.

Except for he absolutely is. They argued that the prosecution presented no credible evidence against their client. They argued that, of course, like his DNA and fingerprints were in the house because he lived there. Well, that's true. Yeah. You didn't find any bloodstained fingerprints of his anywhere? Yeah, but you found his bloody shoe print.

Yeah, exactly. So how'd that get there? Exactly. Well, so here's the deal. Jason had already gotten rid of those shoes before then, so that's just a weird coincidence. He told Michelle to give those to the Goodwill a whole year ago. Oh, wow.

Okay. That's convenient. Yeah. So don't even worry about that shoe print. That's no big deal. They said that no blood was found in his car or his clothes or the hotel room that he stayed at in Virginia. They said that he had no cuts or bruises or injuries on his hands. He did have a broken toenail.

But that's it. I'm sorry. I just was not expecting that. But also he beat a pregnant woman to death. So, yeah, I imagine he didn't get too banged up. Yeah. Jason took the stand in his own defense. What a delight.

Mm-hmm. He was on the stand for about three hours. Is that all? Mm-hmm. It was not very long. He told the jury that he was not the perfect husband. Okay. But he said he was working on his marriage.

How? By fucking her friend? That's legitimately what the prosecutor said on cross-examination. He said, when you were having sex with another woman 10 days before your wife was murdered, was that working on your marriage? Give me a break. Yeah. And he just said, no, ma'am. No, ma'am.

Yeah. I mean, what can you say? Yeah. He said that, of course, there were problems in their marriage, but he said that he loved Michelle and he wanted to make their marriage work. He was excited. He was looking forward to the birth of their baby boy. He was excited.

to the birth of their baby boy. He was excited. They shared an email that he had sent to Michelle in October of 2006, October 24th, 2006. And then Jason said that he wanted to go to counseling. He wanted to get their marriage figured out. So look, he's working on his marriage. Yeah, that came like a week before he murdered her, so I'm guessing it's part of the plan. That's absolutely. Don't you think?

Absolutely. Yeah. Jason testified that he didn't think that they fought any more than any other couple. Well, then you're just fucked up. Mm-hmm. Dude, that's all that says. Yeah. That's all that says.

The defense told the jury that Jason would not have had enough time to return to Raleigh, murder his wife, and drive back to the Virginia. Sorry, and drive the Virginia. The great state of Virginia. We give a lot of respect to Virginia on this podcast. We call it the Virginia. The hotel was located about 160 miles from their house in Raleigh. It would have been a journey, but the investigators did it, and he would have had plenty of time. Right.

Yes. Jason talked about what he had done that night. He'd gone into his hotel room, and he's really nervous about this sales call the next day. And so he just walked through the presentation on his laptop. And then he'd fallen asleep. He was so nervous that he ended up showing up half an hour late. They asked him why he was half an hour late. He said it's because he got lost.

Okay. Yep. Jason was asked about those internet searches that I mentioned earlier, all about the head injuries. And he said that he had conducted those at a different time and they were related to an accident that he had witnessed. Really? Uh-huh. Tell me all about the accident. That's all I know. That's all he knows, too.

Yeah, exactly. And that was about the whole defense. I didn't do it. I'm a shitty husband, but I'm not a killer. But also I was working on it real hard. Look at this email. Yeah, look at this email I sent where I was like, let's go to counseling. Yeah.

Yeah. So the jury got the case and they deliberated and deliberated and deliberated. No. And then they sent a note to the judge. Oh, my God. They were hopelessly deadlocked. They were split eight to four. Really?

Eight in favor of acquittal. Shut up. Yep. Wow. Yep. Shut up. Yep. Wow.

Yep. And on June 27th, 2011, a mistrial was declared due to a home jury. I am shocked. It's funny because I feel like we cover a lot of cases where stuff is circumstantial. This seems pretty solid to me. I think it seems pretty solid to me it seems pretty solid too i mean i don't want to really use the word obvious but that's kind of what i think fits here yep so jason would be tried again okay and his second trial began on january 17th 2012 and it's same thing as before i'm not going to walk you through all of it again. The only difference at this trial was that Jason didn't testify.

But his testimony from the first trial was played. I think this is really interesting. Because it was so well received at the first trial, I think the defense was like, let's not fuck this up. Right. Let's play that instead of having you actually take the stand again. Yeah, I get that. Yeah. This time, the jury deliberated for six hours.

And then they found him guilty. Okay. Of first-degree murder. At his sentencing hearing, Judge Donald Stevens said that Michelle wasn't just murdered. She suffered a beating the likes of which we seldom seen. The judge said that Jason only stopped beating her when he became exhausted and that the evidence suggests the assailant was overcome completely by anger and rage. And even then, he had the energy to strip her of her engagement and wedding rings because in his mind, she was unworthy of wearing them. The judge said that? The judge said that at the sentencing. The judge then went on to say that

the fingerprints of domestic violence were all over this case. When handing down his sentence, the judge told Jason that not only did he have the motive to kill Michelle, but all of the circumstances pointed directly at him and nothing pointed away from him. Jason was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. So Jason appealed his conviction and at an appeal hearing, some interesting information came out. I mean, this is the basis of his appeal. So during that second trial, the prosecution mentioned to the jury the civil judgment that Michelle's family had been awarded. Are you not? Oh, OK.

They also mentioned that the judge who signed that civil judgment was the same judge who was presiding over this criminal trial. Oh, no. Mm-hmm. And so in his appeal, Jason argued that this prejudiced the jury. Basically, this judge has already signed off on this civil judgment. This judge who you respect. Yeah. Saying that he is responsible for the murder of his wife.

I hate it because I agree. Yeah. So at this appeal hearing, his new legal team argued that his trial attorney, sorry, that his trial attorney should have, quote, objected more strenuously when the judge allowed jurors to hear that Jason first did not respond to the civil wrongful death lawsuit. He didn't respond to it at all. It went on completely without him. And that then he was the judge who had signed the judgment on it.

So Jason's attorney argued that the jury shouldn't have heard anything about that. And they believed that hearing that the same judge was overseeing both cases poisoned the jury. And the appeal court agreed. A unanimous panel of the Court of Appeals vacated his conviction and ordered a new trial. So he was to get a third trial. Holy shit. But before that third trial took place, the prosecution appealed this judgment from the Court of Appeals all the way to the North Carolina Supreme Court. And they overturned the appellate court's decision.

Why? They said that, yes, there is something to that that should not have been allowed in. But it wouldn't have changed the outcome of the trial. There's enough evidence that he did this that it doesn't warrant a new trial. And so Jason remains in prison. Yeah. And he maintains his innocence. Okay, well, that's cute. And there are a lot

of people that think he is wrongfully convicted. Really? There's a woman who wrote a whole book about it. She runs a whole website about justice for Jason Young. Is there something I'm missing here? No. So the really the only that they argue is that there was some DNA found on the jewelry box in the house that does not match Jason. OK. And then the argument is that there's not any physical evidence tying him to the case, tying him to the murder other than the hush puppy shoe print, which he claims he didn't even have those shoes anymore. I think there's enough. I think there's enough.

I agree. I think there's enough here. I do. I do have concerns about having the same judge overseeing the criminal trial as the civil judgment. That does seem like a conflict of interest. I don't know. Oh, see, I don't necessarily think that even. I think it's more about like letting the jury know this judge has signed off on it.

It could almost seem like an endorsement. I agree. I think it does sound like an endorsement. Yeah. Yeah. And while I personally agree that you wouldn't think that that would be the piece that pushes this thing over the edge. Obviously, that first jury, they couldn't agree on it. I mean, I think this is a fairly obvious one, but I don't know. Yeah.

So in the official judgment, the Supreme Court said even if the jury knew Judge Stevens wrote the default judgment in the civil suit. In this case, given the weight of the evidence, we don't think it would have changed the outcome. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So that's the story of the murder of Michelle Young by her husband, Jason Young. Is he wrongfully convicted? I don't think so. I don't either. I don't either. Oh. Yeah. How terrible for her family. Yeah.

Oh. Okay. To go back to the eBay printouts. Yeah. That's so fucked up to do that to her sister. Exactly. You made her sister go discover her fucking body. Yeah. That's so fucked up to do that to her sister. You made her sister go discover her fucking body.

Yeah. How awful. How awful. But he couldn't be there when it was discovered. That was part of the whole thing. Yeah. So he had to get somebody

to go to the house. We knew that eBay printout thing was bullshit. Trouble when you walked in. Yep. Ugh. And now let's do an ad. Doodaloo.

Doodaloo. Shall we take some questions from the Discord? Yes, we shall. Everyone to get into our Discord. Whoa, Brandy's gasping. There was a shooting at the parade oh my god david said shooting at the parade up to 10 people possibly injured okay i'm gonna i've got to call yes yes yes yes okay everybody i don't know how much we're gonna leave in

but when we went to look at questions from the discord we just found out that there's been a shooting at the parade today. So just had to pause and call my sister and everybody. Yeah, make sure. Yes. I think, yeah. I think that's the only person I knew going. God. Anyway, it'd be nice if this country did something about fucking gun control.

How about that? No. Do we have a problem with guns here in the United States, Kristen? It's the first I'm hearing of it. Yeah. Well, you'd think our politicians, it was the first they were hearing of it. No fucking shit. So, yeah, Patty, you can leave that all in, actually.

Yep. Should we take some questions from the Discord now, ma'am? Fuck. That is terrifying. I don't know why I feel compelled like we've got to leave that in, but I do think that's a very American experience. Oh, yeah.

Don't you? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely it is. Lesba wants to know what we're doing for Valentine's Day. Kristen, what are we doing? What are you doing? What am I doing? I don't want people to get jealous, Brandi. Okay, tell the people what you're doing for Valentine's Day. Kristen, what are we doing? What are you doing? What am I doing? I don't want people to get jealous, Brandi.

Okay, tell the people what you're doing. But fine, I will. Okay, so Norman and I are getting our signature heart-shaped pizza and a bouquet of boneless buffalo wings. Amazing. Will we spend the evening making love on the toilet? Maybe. Oh, God. Hey, don't kink shame.

Are you going to eat your buffalo wings in the hot tub? That just sounds sexy. You don't really think it's sexy. I don't at all. That's enough. That's enough. All right. I don't make fun of your love.

Okay. You want to know what we're doing tonight? I do. David and I are going to order some food. And then David, London, and I are all going to watch Press Your Luck, a.k.a. No Whammies. That's what we call it in our family. On the Game Show Network. It's our favorite game show.

It's on every night at 7. How old are you again? We love it. David wants to get on Press Your Luck. He should. He is legitimately in the application process right now. He love it. David wants to get on Press Your Luck. He should. He is legitimately in the application process right now. He loves it. It is his favorite

game show. I love watching it. To me, it's not necessarily a trivia show. I wouldn't call it my favorite game show, but I do really like it. London loves it. She watches it and she goes, no whammies, no whammies. Stop. Yay! She loves it

you know the weirdest thing is it's actually cuter when you say it no it's way cuter when she says it and then we'll be watching The Floor

which is my current favorite game show wow hosted by Rob Lowe it's not just my favorite game show hosted by Rob Lowe it is my favorite

game show period and then it is hosted by Rob Lowe. It is my favorite game show, period. And then it is hosted by Rob Lowe. Okay. Just so everybody's clear. Very good. All right. Okay. Game show aficionado wants to know, have you two been rehearsing for the live show yet?

So much. Yeah, just constant rehearsals. Brandy's not picking up the choreo very well. There will be no choreo. I'm going to be grapefinding the whole time Brandi tells the story. No, I don't know what strikes you about this podcast that it would be something

that is heavily rehearsed. Well, I think I really set the bar really high at our last live show. When you didn't finish the case. Oh, I finished it. And I did have to rush through the... Well, did I finish it? Kind of. You did a quick wrap-up.

Yeah, like a pro. Like a pro. How'd your dance number go? I had no dance number. Oh, so I guess someone did drop the ball. I did sing Christmas Shoes. A great time. Everyone loved it. Ooh, Cots for Busboys wants to know, Kristen, I'm re-listening to the podcast and just got to the episode about your droopy tooties.

Did you ever end up getting a bra you actually love? You know, not really. Still working on it, huh? Well, not really working on it. No, I just, I hate. Still working on it, huh? Well, not really working on it. No, I just, I hate. You gave up on it? Well, no, I just hate to say, I just went to Victoria's Secret and just, you know. Oh, yeah.

Like, it's fine. Okay. My big mistake was in the pandemic buying a two-pack from Costco. Yeah. That just didn't do the trick. Yeah, no. Boy, that was like, I don't know what that was like, but I was not getting the support I needed. That's partially on me.

I bought that thing, like the band was just massive. Yeah, that's where all the support comes from. Yeah, I know. You yelled at me about it. Okay. All right. Anyhow, my titties are doing okay. Okay, glad to hear it

oh what is it les lemon wants to know how old is your oldest pair of undies oh my gosh so i do have okay here's my problem you got some antiques okay yeah because i just buy the same underwear every time yeah so, so you have no idea, really. No, because I've got like three pairs where like the elastic is totally worn out. Mm-hmm. Even bits of it falling off like every time I put them on. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to spit. These, I don't have an accurate, but I would guess they've got to be at least eight to ten years old.

Oh, I've got to be at least 8 to 10 years old. Oh, I've got to be. And I still wear them because they're so comfy. Yeah. But they're like around the house undies. I'm not wearing those under like my outfit each day. They're like the comfy undies. Yeah. When you're going to throw on sweatpants.

Yeah, sure. Yeah. Sure. Well, we knew what was up the minute you said the elastic shot yeah it's shot i've got you soapy what do you what do you have okay it's funny i i haven't talked about this friend of mine in for a long time she was one of my friends from college but i just told you a story before we started recording about her. Anyway, her mom owned a lingerie shop in Chicago. Uh-huh.

And so, like, as gifts, she'd get us all, like, cute underwear. And, of course, to me, these are very special underwear. So you only wear them never. Right. Because you don't want to mess them up. I received these when I was 21. Okay. Still got them.

Okay. Just waiting for that perfect moment. Okay. Still got them. Okay. Just waiting for that perfect moment. Perfect occasion to wear them. Ooh, Pro Boni Attorney wants to know something, and I want to know it too. Brandy, whatever happened to your driver's license? Did you accidentally, on purpose, throw it away? Do you still have it? No, I still have it.

And I actually, I had forgotten how terrible it was. It was just tucked in my wallet. How often do you look at your driver's license? Oh, well, mine's beautiful. So I look at mine daily. You just have yours framed constantly. No. So then I actually traded in my car this weekend. Right. Got a new-to-me car. Not a new car, but new-to-me car. And they had to look at that thing about 100 times throughout the course of the transaction. And I was like, I'm going to get this fucking thing out again.

Did they judge you? Were they like, oh, good God. No, they didn't say anything about it. They were perfectly nice. They didn't even, honestly, the rudest thing they did was not say, this looks nothing like you. How happy would you have been if they were like, nice try. Nice try. This doesn't look anything like you.

This looks like a thumb. Yeah. And you're like, listen, I know. You're so nice. Thank you. I agree. It looks nothing like me. I'm obviously so hot in person.

I do think it's cool. Brandy has agreed to put that up on the screen at both of the live shows. No. No. No. No, no, no. We're going to have to blur the address, obviously. No. But the thumb will be up there. No.

Oh, OK. No. Still time to negotiate. Don't worry, gang. Garth Brooks of Hot Tubbing asked Brandy, what do you do when swimming? Is it different to be pantsless in a pool or do you have emotional support swim pants? Yeah. No.

I, this past year, wore the least full coverage swimsuit I've ever worn. No. So it used to be I would wear like a swim dress, one piece situation with like a skirt on the bottom. Yeah. Because that felt like it gave me good coverage. Grandma needs her coverage. Yeah. This past year, I did actually wear a two-piece.

Yeah, you called it a bikini one time. It is technically a bikini, but it is a long-line bikini. So it's got a high-waist bottom and a long-line top. So there's only about that much gappage between the two. Remember, there's no video. It's an inch and a half on a good day. But no, my hips show.

Oh my God. My shoulders show. A bit of cleavage that shows. Holy shit. Don't you know that you're tempting the men to stumble?

What? They're trying to do right by the Lord. You're out here showing a good inch of skin. A good inch of skin. That's right. That's right. Yeah. No, when I'm at the pool, that is the least dressed I am.

I remember when we first started the podcast. I can't remember why, but you bought a new swimsuit. Oh, yeah. Do you remember this? I do remember this. And I was like, oh, let me see a picture. Yeah. Because you were like, it was something like you just bought it.

I just bought it. And I was like, it was fine. Like, it's not great, but it's fine. The way you handed me that phone was like, I mean, like, as if you were handing me a photo of a close-up of your vagina. Yeah, absolutely. Like, fine, I'll allow you to just look, but only for medical purposes. Yes. Yeah.

And it was just you in a very full coverage. That was a full coverage. You were wearing more in that photo than I was wearing at the time looking at it. Yes, that is accurate. I remember that swimsuit. And that was a tankini with a skirted bottom that was pretty long. And you were wearing knee-high boots. No.

Should we do one more? Yeah. Okay, this is nuts. Calling in Horny wants to know, cereal first or milk first? Brandy, do you do milk first? No. No. Oh, my God.

Don't lie. No, I don't do milk first. No. No. Oh, my God. Don't lie. No, I don't do milk first, but I have been known to do a little bowl of cereal. You put your cereal in. You put your milk in.

You eat your cereal. You're left with milk. I have been known to pour a little more cereal into that milk that's left over. Yeah, that doesn't. Yeah. No. But no. That's not what's being asked here.

Cereal first, then milk, you serial killer. Okay, all right. I feel a lot better now. Shall we move on to Supreme Court inductions? Absolutely we shall. I'm warning you, gang, we got a lot of them, okay? A lot of them to get through. Just buckle up.

Buckle up, I'm Patty. Not Patty the editor. That's a Gilmore Girls reference. Anyway, that's fine. Okay, I was going to say, I did not understand that at all. Okay. One person will get it and they'll think it's funny and that makes it worth it to me. All right.

We are continuing to read your names and your first celebrity crushes. Lori Rogers. John Travolta. Katie McGrath. Jonathan Brandes. Elle. Rob Lowe. Samantha.

Nick Jonas Krista Smith Casper, the ghost version, not the human boy. Amanda McDonald Davy Jones from The Monkees Mikayla Jim Hawkins Molly D

Michael Jackson, don't judge, it was the early 80s before things got weird. Stephanie Fred from Scooby-Doo. Shannon Jones. Jordan Knight. The Gift Shop with All the Goods. Jessica Alba. Zach Hunt.

Ricky Martin. Maggie. Lance Bass. Tara. Drake Bell. Amy McFarland. Dan Marino. Elizabeth Sons.

Nick Carter. April Derringer. Ricky Schroeder. Ingrid Brubaker. Draco Malfoy From Harry Potter Oh, okay Shelley Leo DiCaprio

Jessica Wright Jonathan Taylor Thomas Brittany Peoples Leo DiCaprio again Dervella Christian Slater Kaylin Pete Wentz

Sierra Osborne Justin Timberlake Marta Tom Cruise. Cassandra Richards. Matthew Lillard. Micah. The kid from Rookie of the Year.

Ruth. Sean Cassidy. Johanna. Leonardo DiCaprio. Julianne. Ashton Kutcher. Ollie. Brendan Fraser.

And now I'm a lesbian. EJ. Brad Renfro. Molly Wagner. Scott Baio. Sarah Kowalmore. Now I'm a lesbian. Kaylee Wolfe Hillary Duff Nina Jason Bateman Tiana Sean Ortapanga from Boy Meets World Geneva Ralph Macchio Brittany Reynolds

Pete Wentz Carolyn Bo Duke Trish Sean Cassidy Jeanette Jonathan Knight Casey Bauman

Corey Haynes and Feldman Heidi Rhino Leonardo DiCaprio Larissa Johnny Depp Lacey Devin Sawa

Cassie Gavin Rosdale Joe Jackson Harrison Ford Sarah The tall skinny one from Boyz II Men Kathy David Cassidy

Karen Ferguson Brad Pitt Mellie Weisgerber Devin Sawa Laurel Villers Rob Rob Lowe, Meg, Josh Hutchinson, Victoria Redmond, Christian Slater, Patty, Ed Norton, Roxy, Angelina Jolie, Lou, Johnny Lee Miller, Luna Siena Bee, Jonathan Taylor Thomas, Anna Lloyd-Joy Tom Sellett Trudy Michael Jackson Maddie The Beast from Beauty and the Beast Whee!

Gordo from Lizzie McGuire Emily Jonathan Taylor Thomas Corey Kevin Richardson Jazz The Pink Power Ranger Rummen

Ryan Gosling Lucy Naya Rivera Emerson Emma Button Samantha Z. Yes, all of them. Now and then.

Linzo. Rachel Wally. Stephanie. Brett. Jalen. Changu. Luke Skywalker. Rebecca Reeves

Kurt Russell Anna Ashley Green LL Cool C Jennifer Beals Debbie Cooper Brad Pitt Nikki Park

Uncle Jesse Emily N Christy Carlson Bridget Palud Matthew McConaughey Melissa Babs Fonzie Amanda Carriker

Kevin Bacon Caitlin Ackerman, Zach Efron, Hillary Juergens, Harrison Ford, Jennica Schopenhorst, Dylan O'Brien, Holly, Steve Martin, Lomance, Chad Michael Murray, Tracy, Michael J. Fox, Emily Sicklestiel. Oh, Emily wants to know if the Beast in Beauty and the Beast counts. And yes, it does. It sure does. It's already been read. Absolutely.

Amy Baker. Taylor Lautner. Whew. Welcome to the Supreme Court. Everyone, thank you for hanging with us for a long-ass Supreme Court induction. Thank you for all of your support. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Patreon.

Please remember to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and then head on over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a five-star rating and review. Then be sure to join us next week. When I'll be an expert on a whole new topic. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you

to the real experts. I got my info from ChillingCrimes.com, an episode of Dateline, ABC News, WRAL News, and The Court Record. For a full list

of our sources, visit LGTCPodcast.com. Any errors are of course ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go. Read their stuff.

Woo. Take our word for it. Go read their stuff.