Let's Go To Court! - 292: Kristin's Brand Spankin' New Podcast: An Old Timey Podcast!

Episode Date: May 8, 2024

Hey LGTC fans!  I hope you enjoy this episode of An Old Timey Podcast! Norm and I are having a ton of fun making this show. It’s full of deep dives, tangents, and very silly jokes. We also hope you’ll subscribe to the new show wherever you listen to podcasts. (And if you’re feeling generous, please leave us a five-star rating and review. It’ll really help us out!) …and if you’re still missing Let’s Go To Court, I’ve got good news! The video from our final live show is on our Patreon at the $10 level.  Speaking of which, the Let’s Go To Court and An Old Timey Podcast patreon accounts have *ahem* become one, so that’s the place to be for the entire back catalog of LGTC bonus episodes, bonus videos, and ad-free episodes. It’s also home to all of our new content, including a monthly bonus episode of An Old Timey Podcast, plus videos of our episodes!  Anyhooters. Thank you all for being part of this journey. I hope you’ll come along for the next leg. Love,  Kristin

Hey, Let's Go to Court fans, it's Kristen, and it's been a minute. And if you've got a big, gaping, LGTC-sized hole in your heart, then I've got good news. I have a new podcast. It's called An Old-Timey Podcast, and I host it with my darling husband, Norman Caruso. Say hi, Norm. Buongiorno. Oh my god! Did you know he's French, guys?

That's actually Italian. Oh, my God. Did you know he's French, guys? That's actually Italian. Oh. Oh, bonjour is French. Bonjour, no. You add that. You got it. Okay, don't. Anyway, I've been to Olive Garden.

Hey, you know what? I've got things to say about an old-timey podcast, okay, to drive the people in droves to the new feed. You ready for this? Yeah, let's pitch it to us, Kristen. Let's hear it. Okay, it's deep divey. Okay.

Check. It's well-researched. Ooh. Check. Source on that. Hey, we go to Wikipedia for all our shit. Don't worry. It's also very silly.

It's a history comedy podcast, and it's simply divine. And, you know, just like Let's Go to Court, it's got tangents, it's got jokes, and it's simply divine and you know just like let's go to court it's got tangents it's got jokes and it's got a soundboard check this out kristen sexy times you want to tell the people what the fuck that was that was your father dp saying sexy times and by the way, DP texted Norm and asked to be added to the soundboard. And I cannot turn down DP. Oh, okay. Anyway, we are dropping the second episode of an old-timey podcast right here in the Let's Go to Court feed. We hope you'll listen.

We hope you like it. And we really hope that you'll subscribe to an old-timey podcast. And if you're feeling extra generous, maybe leave us a nice little rating and review. A nice little rating? No, we want a five-star rating and review. Please, please. I'd be fine with four stars. Shut up, no. And if you don't like it, don't tell anybody. Keep that shit to yourself. Oh, and if you're still missing Let's Go to Court, I've got good news there too. The video from our final live show is on our Patreon at the $10 level.

And Norm, tell them what happens when they sign up for our Patreon at the $10 level. I mean you just get a ton of shit. You're going to be stuffed with content. Oh, God. You get the nearly two-hour live show. You get the entire back catalog of Let's Go to Court bonus episodes. Let's Go to Court bonus videos. You get ad-free episodes, access to the Discord, a discount on merch.

And then you're also going to get access to all the old-timey podcast stuff as well, including ad-free episodes plus full video episodes. I am stuffed. You're telling me that these folks are going to get to look at our sexy ass faces yeah

oh they're going to be too horny to do anything else with their day I am too turned on to work I'm calling out

so head over to our Patreon we've got a link in the show notes we've got a link to the new podcast we hope you'll head over there and subscribe

and in the meantime please enjoy this episode about a woman who I've been obsessed with forever. Thank you all for listening to this. Thank you for your support. I've missed you all and I'm so glad to be back. Toodles. Toodles. Hear ye, hear ye. You are listening to an old-timey podcast. I'm Kristen Caruso. And I'm her non-threatening husband, Norman Caruso. You certainly are. And on this week's episode, I'll be talking about Carrie Nation. Ooh!

Ooh! Carrie Nation, another local history hoe. You almost called her a hero, didn't you? I was going to say celebrity, actually. Oh, excuse me. I don't know how many people know about Carrie Nation, but. I feel like everybody knows about Carrie Nation. Am I full of shit?

I don't know. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Speaking of full of shit. Yeah. I believe that you have some things that you need to apologize for. Is that not true, sir? I do. It's only our second episode, things that you need to apologize for. Is that not true, sir? I do. It's only our second episode and I already have to apologize.

Go ahead. I'm looking forward to this. Kristen, in our first episode, I may have made a few mistakes. And so I'd like to correct myself for the record in a little segment I'd like to call Mistakes of Shame. Oh, God. Thank you for taking this seriously. You're welcome. So first, in the first episode, I made a joke about Nugenics, that testosterone booster. Yeah.

And I claimed that the spokesperson for Nugenics was Frank White. I remember it well. I believed every word of it. I apologize. The actual spokesperson for Nugenics is Frank Thomas. Frank Thomas, a.k.a. Big Hurt. That's his nickname. He's a Hall of Famer in the Baseball Hall of Fame.

Frank White was also a baseball player. He played for the Royals for many years, he is the Jackson County executive and he was involved in that whole stadium vote we just had. Are you sure? I'd like to trust you but – You know what? What? No, it's funny. The morning that episode dropped on Patreon, your dad texted me at like 8 a.m.

It was like, Frank White, don't you mean Frank Thomas? And I was like, oh, God. I really fucked up. What else are you ashamed of, Norm? I understand you made multiple mistakes on our first episode. My second mistake, I talked about John Brown's children. Yeah. Second mistake, I talked about John Brown's children.

Yeah. And he had a child named – I claimed he had a child named Salmon. Spelled S-A-L-M-O-N. Just like the fish. So just like the fish, anyone would have made this mistake. But it turns out you probably pronounce his name like Salmon or Salmon. So I apologize to John Brown's ancestors – not ancestors. What's the opposite of that? Descendants.

Descendants. I apologize to John Brown's descendants for pronouncing Salmon's name like the fish. And I feel bad too because the second you said it, I thought it sounded fishy. And you have another? And then finally – My god. Kristen, I was very proud of this joke. Yeah?

When I said John Brown could be on the cover of Threatening Boys magazine. Yeah, I loved that joke. Yeah. Well, then we started joking about how I would be in non-Threatening Boys magazine. Yes. Kristen, if you can believe this, The Simpsons already made that joke. Are you serious? Lisa reads a magazine called Non-Threatening Boys magazine.

Wow. So I don't want to get sued by Disney. So we can no longer talk about that. Oh, we can talk about it. But Threatening Boys is still on the table. OK. I, you know, I'm feeling pretty brave. I think I'd like to see a mock-up magazine of you on the cover with all your non-threatening attributes as little headlines.

I don't know. I don't want Mickey knocking on our door. Crippling anxiety. Mickey and his lawyers. Constantly fearing death. What other non-threatening traits do you have? Seeing things that bother me but not saying anything and just silently fuming about it. That's a non-threatening boy.

Like when I'm at Costco and somebody is pushing their cart down the aisle and they stop in the middle of the aisle. You lose your mind. And like no one else is in the aisle. The whole aisle is for them apparently. But I'm a non-threatening boy. I will not say anything. I will simply stand there and wait and silently fume.

There's a little steam coming out of my ears. And you'll wait until you're in the car with your wife slash lover and then you will say, oh, do people not know we're living in a society? I'll say, did you say that? OK. Well, thank you, Norm, for owning up to your mistakes of shame. This concludes our very first segment of Mistakes of Shame. Well done. I also want to say that I had a lot of fun with the soundboard last week.

And I'm going to try to rein it in a little bit. I think I may have been a little too excited. Are you trying to say that you mentioned Hank Hill being about to bust a few too many times? I may have busted too much. Great. Well, we love the self-awareness. Anyway, Kristen, I'm excited to hear about Cary Nation. Oh, are you? Well, keep your pants on, sir. Don't bust just yet. We've got to promote our Patreon.

Oh, right. That's how we survive out here. It is. If you want to keep us going back to Costco, where Norm can get upset when people just stop in the middle of an aisle, then please sign up for our Patreon. At the $5 level, you get access to all of the old Let's Go to Court bonus episodes. Rest in peace. And you get a new bonus episode from this very podcast, an old-timey podcast. That's right. Norm looks concerned because we haven't recorded it yet, but that's fine. It's going to happen.

Yeah. We're pulling double duty next week. We've got to record two episodes. We're out here doing the Lurds work. Also at the $5 level, you get into the Discord to chitty chat the day away. Yeah. It's fun in there. I've been in there a lot lately.

Making all kinds of inappropriate comments. The big talk right now is what is my pet name for you? Because apparently in the first episode, you said, I don't call you by your name. It's true. And so now people are speculating, what do I call you? You've already called me Kristen on this episode, which I understand. It makes sense that you would call me Kristen, but it does make me cringe. Excellent. What does he call me? Get in that Discord and you can discuss with other history hoes. Also at the $10 level on our Patreon, you get access to all that, plus all the old Let's Go to Court videos. And, and, and, and, you get full-length videos of this podcast. You get to look at our sexy faces.

Yeah, I'm pointing at you right now. Look at this. The video is cool. I'm glad we were able to give that to all of our lovely history hoes. I agree. Yeah. And people are loving it. Well, yeah.

Yeah, I'm real excited. I do want to say thank you all so much for the kind words about the first episode. I was real nervous about that episode because it was the meatiest little meaty boy ever. You ever did see. Yeah. Yeah, but people – Kristen assured me. They're like, listen, our fans love long episodes. It will be OK.

I said, OK, and yeah. Most people were thrilled to fans love long episodes. It will be OK. I said, OK. Yeah. Most people were thrilled to have that long episode. Yeah. Just thank you for all the nice words. Yeah, I just – I really appreciate it. Thanks for taking a long one from my husband, everybody. We appreciate it.

OK. I really need to rein in this soundboard. No. No, you don't. It's fine. Everyone, Norm is a sensitive, non-threatening boy. One person said he went too hard on the soundboard and now – I did.

Now I have all these doubts in my head. You're okay, darling. But that's what non-threatening boys do. They doubt themselves literally all the time. What else do you get at the $10 level, Kirsten? At the $10 level, you also get, okay, this month, we are going to drop the Let's Go to Court live show

video, which will be super exciting. Ooh, yeah. Ooh. And we're going to do some kind of fun video for the fans. Are we going to do a YouTube stream? Yeah, I think we're going to do a stream on YouTube. A private stream, obviously. We don't want any randoms coming in. We don't want any non-history hoes in there.

Hoes only. Yeah. Yeah, I think we're going to do a YouTube stream and we're going to play some interactive games like maybe Jackbox or Drawy or there's a whole bunch of fun stuff you can do with the chat. Okay, I know none of this, but but i'm excited about it i want you to show up and wave your little flag and tip your little hat and bang the shit out of your desk you okay it's all on video non-threatening boy hurt himself yep but i won't complain that's right, are you ready for this? I am ready for Carrie Nation. Talking about Carrie Nation. Oh, that was beautiful. What do you know about Carrie Nation?

The only thing I know about Carrie Nation is she did not like alcohol because just like John Brown, she also thought it had dangerous powers. John Brown, she also thought it had dangerous powers. And so she destroyed liquor shops and bars with a little hatchet. Oh, a little hatchet. Cute little hatchet. Broke the windows and whatnot. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Well, we can just wrap up the podcast right here, right? I just basically summed it up. Tell me a little more. Do you know anything else? I know she is buried in Belton, Missouri. Yeah. Well, that's just because I'm obsessed with Carrie Nation and I told you that. That's true. That's basically

all I know. Thoughts on her character? I don't know anything about her character. Who am I to comment on Carrie Nation's character? Oh, boy. Okay. Here we go. Here we go! Let's start. Okay. I'm so excited.

Okay. Okay. How meaty is this going to be? Well, it's nothing compared to your meat. Go ahead. Go ahead. I pressed the button so bad. Press the button.

Just do it. I'm about to bust. Okay. I got it out of my system. Did you? Yeah. All right. Let's hear about Carrie Nation.

Okay. Today, I would like to discuss a complicated, controversial woman. An old-timey woman who was mocked back in her day and continues to be mocked today. Buckle up, baby. We're talking about Carrie Nation. People are still roasting Carrie Nation today? Yes. Yes.

But first, some shout-outs. Obviously, there's a lot of great information online, but I got the best information from the book Carrie A Nation, colonelling the life by fran grace shout out to fran thank you fran thank you fran thank you for being a friend and part of the book smashing the liquor machine colon a global history of prohibition by mark lawrence shroud and of course, who could forget the book The Use and Need of the Life of Carrie A. Nation, written by Carrie A. Nation in 1905. Did you burp? Excuse me. Ironically, as if you'd had a little whiskey in you.

I purposefully did not bring a Coke Zero this time because it kept making me burp last episode you know now i'm still burping we can bleep the burps actually i can do that look at that yeah but you didn't burp so it was kind of a wasted bleep and we pay for these bleeps by the bleep It's $25 per sensor button Per press It's $50 per Hank Hill clip Which is why we have to promote the Patreon so much Oh yeah, we're swimming in this right now

Uh-huh We're in a real bad spot Shout out to Carrie Nation for writing a book about her life So Kristen could use it for this episode. And because it's so old-timey, it's free. So you, too, can go read this book and get really weird feelings. Public domain. It's a great thing.

All right. Here we go. Okay. Good history hoes probably think they know about Carrie Nation. probably think they know about Carrie Nation. She was the woman back in the early 1900s who so despised alcohol that she busted into saloons with a hatchet and she smashed the shit out of everything.

And she loved it so much that she did it again and again and again. Smash, smash, smash. Yeah. People called her crazy and ugly and tall she's all equally bad how tall was she good question all equally bad no i love tall women i married one it. But you know, I remember early on, hashtag never forget,

you said, I actually don't mind how tall you are. Did I really say that? You did. And I was like, wow, thank you so much. I will marry you one day. It was a compliment.

Sure. We'll get to her height later. Okay. All right. Even more modern sources dismiss Carrie Nation as a crazy woman. And she was maybe a little bananas, but she wasn't that bananas. So let's talk about her. Carrie Amelia Moore was born in 1846 in Garrard County, Kentucky, to her parents George and Mary.

1846? Yeah. That's a lot earlier than I thought. Okay. What time period were you thinking? I always associate Carrie Nation with like 1900s. Well, yeah, she did live to then. Yeah, but I just thought she would be younger.

A young whippersnapper? Mm-hmm. No, she was old and tall and ugly. Tall, young, hot woman named Carrie Nation. Hmm. Okay, so the thing you have to know about Carrie is that Carrie loved her dad. She was her dad's favorite child, and she really felt that he could do no wrong.

And she wants you to think that he could do no wrong either. Okay. Convince me, Carrie. Hang on. She'll get to it. All right. First, we got to talk about her bitch of a mom. Oh.

She didn't call her mom a bitch, obviously. Take it from me, folks. Don't use that word. Oh oh you want to talk about it no what happened what happened you've never called your mama bitch oh god no absolutely not you wouldn't be here today if you had i would not be sitting here playing hank hill clips on this soundboard if i had called my mama bitch now. Now I, a more brave soul, once in high school called my mom a bitch in kind of a whisper and then I ran away. And by ran away, I mean ran up the stairs.

See, even you were afraid. Oh, I was terrified. I think even my dad was terrified. You don't want a charere bird pecking at you. No, you don't. No, you don't. You don't want a charrette bird pecking at you. No, you don't.

No, you don't. OK. So a lot of sources, including the Ken Burns documentary on Prohibition, refer to Carrie's mom, Mary, as insane. Did it really? Yeah. That's a great documentary, by the way. It is. They called her insane in the documentary?

Yeah. Wow. Was she? her insane in the documentary yeah wow was she well the popular story about mary is that she had to be committed to an insane asylum because she believed that she was queen victoria that story it turns out is mostly bullshit the narrative was started by people who hated Carrie Nation during the height of her hatchet slamming ways. They wanted to establish this idea that Carrie came from a long line of insane people. And a lot of subsequent biographers repeated that narrative. I'm going to touch on that more later, but for now you should know that Carrie very obviously had feelings about her mother.

And that's really obvious when you read her autobiography because she goes so far out. What? Why are you smiling at me? I'm just imagining her chapter two, Why I Hate My Mom. No, no, no. That's not how it comes across. No, no, no. That's not how it comes across. It's just obvious because she goes so far out of her way to make you think of her dad as just the sweetest little enslaver in all the land. Oh, enslaver? Oh, we'll get to it.

Okay. And when it comes to her mom, Carrie doesn't say much. Now, in defense of Carrie's mom, I will say that she had an incredibly tough life. By the time Mary was just 20 years old, she'd been married, she had two children, and her husband and both of those kids were dead. Hmm. Her husband was dead, too? Yeah, the whole gang. Usually it's the other way around. Well, yeah.

How did her husband die i'm not sure maybe in the same dysentery bathtub that you know john brown's great granddad did everyone shared the tub so she was a 20 year old widow and she had to get remarried because it was 18 fuckity fuck and women had no. And now she was used goods. And she didn't have a lot of prospects. Tough times for Mary. So she ended up marrying George Moore, who was old enough to be her dad. How do you feel about this?

I'm disgusted by it. So how old was he? Old enough to be her dad. So he's 20. I'm guessing he's in his 40s yeah that's bad he already had four children oh so they got married and right away mary became pregnant with carrie and then she was pregnant just non-stop until menopause god yeah it's terrible this is this seems to be a running theme in the 1800s is let's just have a shitload of kids. Well, I mean, birth control methods probably weren't that great and birth control at all

was probably frowned upon. Were they very religious? Yes. That makes sense. Dancing is a sin. I don't know if you knew that. It is and that's why I don't dance. Yeah. It's sinful. I don't know if you knew that. It is, and that's why I don't dance.

Yeah. It's sinful. It's not because you can't dance. It's not that I can't dance or don't want to dance. It's because it's a sin. Yeah, so you won't catch me at Funky Town, that sinful hellhole. Everyone, there is— Sorry, I should explain what Funky Town is, huh? Yeah, and you should explain why you're

terrible it's like a disco themed dance club in Kansas City yes that Kristen has wanted to go to

and I told her she can go anytime she wants I have heard that every night they play the song car wash and then they have

a bubble machine and like people get dressed up it's a great time blah blah, blah, blah. Well, they don't do it every night because they're only open on the weekends. Well, yeah. You don't want to go on a Tuesday to Funky Town. Tuesday night Funky Town.

Anyhow. Just go with Kyla. Norman, you need to be more afraid. That's the problem with you. You need to be way afraid that I'm going to meet some dude at Funky Town. He's going to sweep me off my funky feet. I'm a non-threatening boy. And he's going to disco me into Loversville.

A non-threatening boy would not be worried. Is not threatened. Would not be worried about that. And if it did happen, I would just be like, well, all right. Wow. She found someone better than me. Oh, it turns out he had a heart-shaped bed with silk sheets. I can't compete with that.

Not at all. Okay. So, yeah, no funky town trips. When Mary and George got married and they had carrie they were moderately wealthy farmers what did they grow well they didn't grow shit okay what did you say you're going to talk about george the enslaver yeah george george george the enslaver terrible as he can be sorry that's a great song. Watch out for that free-dom for your enslaved people. Okay, yeah. This song's kind of falling apart.

So they're moderately wealthy, but it's not because they're good at farming. It's because George had inherited enslaved people. Tale as old as time in the United States of America. Yeah. And this is where things get sticky. So Carrie wrote her autobiography in the early 1900s, long after slavery had been abolished. And I think she struggled a bit with the narrative because she was a big fan of john brown really yep she was hang on nice and she was very progressive in her views on people of different backgrounds, races, religions, and I say very progressive. We're talking for the time she was progressive.

Yes. Contextually, she was progressive. But the fact was her family had been enslavers. And probably more importantly, her beloved daddy had been an enslaver. And of course, common sense says that slavery was horrible, but Carrie was in a position that a lot of white people were in where they didn't want to acknowledge the role they played or the role their parents and grandparents played in the peculiar institution, as you called it last week.

That is what everybody called it. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to make it like you. How dare you, Mattie? How dare you? So how do you make it palatable in a way that journalists even decades later won't question? This I got to hear. First of all, what do you think?

How do you make slavery palatable? Yeah, and how do you make your dad seem like a good guy? Oh, that's easy. easy okay let's hear it my dad was very nice to the enslaved people oh wow treated them treated them well ding ding ding in fact they liked being there ding ding ding wow norman that's textbook lost cause yep well there you go you're're right, Norm. You make it happy. You make slavery fun again. So this is where it gets infuriating. Yeah.

Because a lot of sources, including an alarming amount of modern ones, use the fact that Carrie grew up as the white child of enslavers as a way to explain why she loved black people and always got along so well with black people. It was because she had grown up with enslaved people around her. So this is like the og i have black friends yeah kind of i'm not racist i i have a black friend yeah but it goes way back it's a well it's more complicated than that okay so i'll tell you more so that narrative of the happy plantation with the kind generous enslavers and the thrilled-to-be-there enslaved people comes directly from Carrie Nation's autobiography.

And it sure as shit appears that subsequent researchers and writers were able to read other parts of that autobiography and apply critical thinking skills. Something any good historian should do. But a lot of them didn't to this part. Oh good. In her autobiography she wrote about all the time that she spent with the people her family enslaved. Happy times. She wrote about how it was years before her mother would allow her to sit at the white folks table. She talked about how she slept out in the enslaved people's quarters

between a husband and wife this did not happen um okay so here's the thing it's possible that it did but how do you as a now very grown woman she was an old woman when she wrote this. And how do other people not stop and think, okay, you grew up sleeping in a couple's bed and that's a happy thing for you. And you're not like thinking at all about, damn, what was that like for them that they've got this like random child in bed with them?

Awkward. Well, yeah. What if they want to bang? But to her, it's just a happy. I feel like you're really tempting me to push this button over here. What if I wrote this whole thing just to tempt you to use the button? I must resist the devilish temptations. I admire that. I'm here to break the jawsish temptations. I admire that.

I'm here to break the jaws of the wicked. Okay. You seem kind of like a non-threatening boy who won't even ask people to move to the side in Costco. I only say I want to break the jaws of the wicked. I will not actually do it. Yeah, and you're like, well, it turns out no one's wicked. I'll watch someone else do it and be like, oh, very good. I didn't see a thing.

She talked about how she loved hearing the enslaved people's stories, loved hearing them praise God. She talked about the people her family enslaved with what seemed like genuine affection, but obviously unexamined affection. but obviously unexamined affection. She was very sure to say that she was proud of how her father treated the people he enslaved. Classic. She had a couple stories that she shared as proof of how good he was. Would you like to hear them? Absolutely.

For one thing, when the enslaved women's children would act up, they asked him to whip their children. Okay. Norm, this obviously showed the amount of trust they had in him. By the way, Carrie mentioned that they never asked her mom to do this. Because again, her mom sucked. What do you make of that story? That instead of him punishing the enslaved children, he asked the parents to do it?

No, no, no, no. She's saying the enslaved women, if one of their children acted up, they would ask him to whip the child. And Carrie's take on this is, oh, wow, that's pretty amazing because it shows what trust they had in him and how much they admired him or whatever. Yeah, that's – No. That's weird. I don't think that happened. I can see if you're in that position where you have absolutely no power and you want to make your enslaver feel comfortable with you and comfortable with all your kids there and not try to sell them off. You do whatever you can.

And if that means like, oh, yeah, I just I just love you, admire you. Oh, will you take care of this discipline? You know, I just like. Anyway, are you ready for another story? Yeah. This autobiography is full of things that definitely happened. Here's another story. This one time her family had a sale because they were moving. Garage sale?

Tag sale? That's how it sounded. What are the other names for a garage sale? Yard sale. I remember tag sale. I feel like tag sale is a southern term. No. When I was in Connecticut one time, my buddy was like, let's go check out the tag sales. And I was like, what is that? Okay. But it's just a garage sale. Well, at this one, at this garage sale, they had items and also a person for sale. Oh. But don't worry. The guy was a bachelor, so it wasn't sad for him or anyone else.

Yeah. He was actually happy to be. Oh, they were all happy. Don't worry about it. He was thrilled. After that, one of the enslaved men, a man named Tom, went up to Carrie's dad, George, and he begged, please do not take me with you on this move. I'm married. My wife lives next door.

Please do not separate me from my wife. Very reasonable request from a human being. Yeah, and terribly sad. Yeah. And terribly sad. Yeah. And I guess this was really rough for Carrie's dad because Tom was very valuable. But because George was such a good guy, he said, okay, if you want to stay, then go find someone who will buy you.

And Tom did. And that's a nice story about what a good enslaver George was. George, George, George the Enslaver. Actually, a very good guy. Can you imagine? That's your good story? A man was literally going to be separated from his wife. The bar is nonexistent.

And your dad says, okay, find someone to purchase you. Yeah, wild. That is ridiculous. But it's amazing like the mental gymnastics we go through and the mental gymnastics that we are willing to continue to go through when we talk about slavery. Yeah. Also, in case you're worried, you should know that according to Carrie, her dad was super relieved when slavery was abolished. Like so relieved. Thank goodness. I've been wanting to get rid of these enslaved people for so long. Yeah. Yeah.

Now I finally can. She wrote, my father was glad when the slaves were free. He felt the responsibility of owning them. Have heard him say after having some trouble with them, those Negroes will send me to hell yet. Gosh, it's just so stressful owning people and not paying for labor. It's a real burden. Yeah. That reminds me of a story of Ulysses S. Grant.

I think he was given an enslaved person as a wedding gift from his father-in-law. Yeah. And he immediately freed the man. Yeah. Because he was like, I'm not interested in owning people. The funny thing is I bet his father-in-law was so offended. George couldn't do that. Couldn't do what?

George couldn't just free his enslaved people. He had to wait until a law was passed. Right. And also I think they fell on financial hard times. So I think that is also a factor here. OK. Anyway, spoiler alert once it became illegal to own people it became very clear that george was not actually a good businessman

twas the free labor that did the trick when the grass is cut the snakes will show oh as they say please don't talk to me about snakes oh oh sorry everyone kristin's very afraid of snakes we spotted a snake in the backyard oh that's right two days ago yeah it's all i can think about i love that you're like oh that's right i i'm like on high alert yeah we came back from a toodle which is what we call a walk we toodle we call it a toodle because the dogs know the word walk. So we just have to like adjust our words every couple months so that they don't know anyway. Yeah. Yeah. So we walked to the back door and there was like this long black thing.

Yeah. It honestly looked like landscape fabric. Yes. That was like sticking up. I would have grabbed it. And Chris was like, oh, what's that? And then it started slithering. Oh, fuck.

And it slithered on out of here. His name was Mr. Scaly. He left his business card. Shut up. And he slithered over to our neighbor Carl's yard. Yeah. It was just a little black snake. It was harmless.

Okay. They're good. They're more terrified of you than you are of it. I don't think that's right because it's been two days. I can't stop thinking about that little fucker. I promise you. Sounds like someone's got a little crush. I promise you.

He's not thinking about me. He's not like, oh, my God. I can't stop thinking about that. That very tall woman. I can't stop thinking about that woman. And I don't mind that she's tall. I'll slither right up them legs. Ew, stop.

You're looking at the sound bar. I know there's stuff you want to press. I'm not going to do it. Wow. Okay. I have to control myself. You know, this story is all about control and being a good man. Hmm. So I appreciate your efforts.

Okay. So the family struggled financially and they moved around a bit. And by 1854, they found themselves on a farm in Belton, Missouri. Oh, wow. Belton, Missouri. Home to sidewalks, indoor plumbing. Toilets. Schools. Everyone, my parents. Toilets. Schools.

Everyone, my parents used to live in Belton. It's kind of a rural suburb of Kansas City. For a long time, I don't know if Belton still has this, they had this billboard that I think did more harm than good. And it was basically like, Belton, Missouri, we have civilization here. It listed bullet points of things that literally any community should have standard. It was like sidewalks, shops. Restaurants. Toilets.

Okay, it didn't actually say toilets. We did start exaggerating. I added that bullet point. But Belton does have toilets. And does it. Okay, so they're out in Belton now. And Carrie spent a lot of her teen years sickly and not in school. She really hated that.

She was very insecure about the fact that she missed so much of her formal education. But that was actually kind of the fashion at the time. If you were a young woman, it was so hot and so cool to be like really skinny and sickly. Oh, my God. Look how good I look. Oh, my gosh. It's just good. It's sick.

Look how good I look. So sexy. The hottest thing ever was if you never left the house. I'm a fan of that. That's me. You're like a sexy Victorian girl. You're just like always bedridden, watching TV, cuddling with the dogs. Yeah.

There's always some affliction that's got you. Yeah, you're sickly but so sexy. I look great though. The popular thought at the time was that bed rest was the best way for a young woman to properly develop her reproductive organs. So I don't know what you're doing when you're doing bed rest. It's crazy. I'm also developing my reproductive organs. So I don't know what you're doing when you're doing bed rest. It's crazy. I'm also developing my reproductive organ.

Just getting that sperm count up. I have one reproductive organ. It's still in development. I'm developing it. So, you know, there's this thought of like what a young lady should be doing. But then the Civil War broke out and all of a sudden it was like, get out of bed and be helpful. You know, I wonder if George, George, George the Enslaver headed on over to Kansas and voted illegally. Belton is pretty close.

I guess back then it was – well, by horse and carriers, that would be quite a little ride. The impression that I got from the autobiography – and it could be wrong. But the impression I got was that they were kind of trying to lay low. So you don't think George was a border ruffian? I don't think so. But I guess I don't know. So the Civil War broke out and how did it go for Carrie and her family? Not great.

Yeah. Carrie did some nursing and slavery became illegal and all of a sudden she and her mom had to do a bunch of housework. And Carrie complained that the worst part of slavery – are you ready for the worst part of slavery? I thought I had an idea of what the worst part of slavery was, but let's hear Carrie's opinion. The worst part of slavery was that it made white women lazy and incompetent because all of a sudden they had to clean their house. They had no fucking idea how to do it. Why didn't I think of that? That's 100 percent right.

Uh-huh. Carrie's parents struggled financially. They took in borders. Do you know what side they supported during the Civil War? Again, I feel like they were trying to ride it out. But I mean they were in Missouri. They were enslavers. I'm sure they were on the Confederate side.

It was a little more complicated in Missouri. Yeah. Civil War. Yeah. It was a little more complicated in Missouri, Civil War. Yeah. Many enslavers were actually pro-union in Missouri because Lincoln promised them – because they were a border state. And so they were very concerned about war happening in their state. And Lincoln said, no, don't worry.

We are going to protect you and your property, which means you're enslaved people. So there were many slave owners in Missouri that were pro-union. Huh. But there were also a lot of Confederate sympathizers too. The Civil War in Missouri is very unique. It was a mess. We'll talk about it sometime. Yeah, so quit asking me about it.

OK. All right. So Carrie's parents were struggling financially, and they took in boarders. And uh-oh. Hot guy? They took in a stone-cold fox. Oh, tell me about him. I like how sometimes I say things, and you look at the soundboard, and then you look away. You wanted to press it.

And I'm caught because it's all on camera people are gonna see i'm eyeballing yeah you're like do you press the button you are picture it carrie was a young woman she was like 21 she was hot as hell yeah Yeah? Yes. Can we describe Carrie? Okay. Dark, beautiful hair. Large, expressive eyes. I will say this dude, Charles Gloyd. Not a great last name. Gloyd? Gloyd.

Listen, what he lacked in an attractive last name, he made up for it with an attractive face. My gloids are killing me today. Charles was hot, okay? Okay. He had big, beautiful eyes, soft, thick hair, and high, tight cheekbones. Go on.

You seem excited. I am. And get this. He was smart. He spoke multiple languages. Was this guy from Belton, Missouri? No. Oh.

Oh, he was a boarder. That's right. Mm-hmm. And he was a doctor. He'd been a doctor for the Union Army. Ooh. Ooh. This guy is getting sexier and sexier by the sentence

he was also kind of a sensitive soul the war had obviously been really hard on him and it seems that the old timey med school hadn't really prepared him for what he would encounter a lot of men died and he felt personally responsible for not saving them. In his defense, he was probably taught like put a leech on it and leave. I'm sure – as a doctor in the Civil War, I bet he amputated so many people. Yeah. And that was just awful. Yeah.

Yeah. Disgusting. And disgusting. Gross. You're going to saw my arm off. Ew. Gross. Ewgusting. And disgusting. Gross. You're going to saw my arm off. Gross. Ew. So after the war, he was like, I'm not ready to practice medicine again.

It was too disgusting. I want to teach instead. So he stayed at Carrie's parents' house and he taught school and he and Carrie made eyes at each other. And he was like, have you ever heard of Shakespeare? And she was like, no, I spent my entire adolescence in bed building a uterus. For some reason I thought you were going to say, have you ever heard of shakes and just like milkshakes? And ask her out for a milkshake.

Milkshakes were not invented yet. I don't think. Okay. History Ho homework. Oh my God. Please find out when milkshakes were invented. This is mandatory homework. Also shout out to, you know, we had history Ho homework last week.

We sure did. I wanted to know what the name of the company was that made those delicious fish sticks. And I believe her name was Kate. Katie. Uh-huh. Katie on the Patreon. Uh-huh. Immediately commented Gorton's. G-O-R-T-O-N-S.

It's in a yellow bag. Gorton's Fish Sticks. Well, thank you, Katie, for being such a good history hoe. The best. So your homework this week, find out when milkshakes were invented. Anyway, I'm sorry. Continue.

So he tells her about Shakespeare and she is juicing. Whoa. She was. Hey, I thought this was going to be a more family-friendly podcast. You ruined it. She was. Hey, I thought this was going to be a more family-friendly podcast. You ruined it. I did. You ruined it for several – first of all, you got that soundboard. It's filthy.

Now you're afraid to touch it, which is hilarious. I am. It's the best thing that's ever happened. Gun shy. And then what would you call it? The mistakes of shame? The mistakes of shame? The mistakes of shame. Yeah.

So you basically ruined the podcast with all your mistakes, your unforgivable mistakes. Yes. I'm just doing my best. Wow. Uh-oh. He's getting more bold, folks. Oh, I might get a little spread in Threatening Boys magazine for pressing that button. So they're flirting.

They're seeing each other. They're very into each other. Yeah. And one day when they were all alone, he just, boom, kissed her right on the lips. Whoa. Kissed her right on the lips. Carrie was shocked. That's a big step.

Yeah. She was a good southern woman. Until that point, she'd never been allowed to sit near a man and she'd never even held a man's hand. She had been... Wait, he went straight to kissing? He didn't even hold her hand?

Nope. Just straight for the smooch. Mm-mm-mm-mm-mm. This guy is something else. He's a threatening boy. He is a threatening boy, yeah. She had been taught from a very young age that if you wanted a man to respect you and to love you, you had to stay the hell away from him. That makes sense. So when Charlie came up to her and smooched her, what do you think she did?

Probably ran away. I'm going to need more drama. She cried out and then ran off crying. Okay, okay. You're getting closer. What she did, she threw up her hands multiple times, okay? So she's got the hands going and she goes, I am ruined. I am ruined.

I am ruined. Thriller. Thriller life. You ruined me. I am ruined. I am ruined. Ruined. Because in kissing her, he broke her hymen.

She took the dare pledge of virginity. Uh-huh. She sure did. That's why she stayed at home all the time. She didn't want to break that pledge. She's like, if I leave this house, I'm going to fuck somebody. Someone's getting fucked tonight if I leave this house. Better for me to be bedridden.

That's right. So yeah, she says she's ruined. I'm sorry. Oh, I'm so sorry. So sorry. What the? What was that? What was that?

What was that from? That's from SpongeBob SquarePants. Okay. So she's like, I'm ruined. I'm ruined. I'm ruined. Naturally. But more like I ruined my pantaloons because i'm so turned

on whoa worth noting carrie's parents especially her evil bitch of a mom we all hate her did not approve of carrie getting together with this charles fellow for one thing they were like why is he a teacher when he could be a doctor? Has he ever heard of money? Also, we're pretty sure he has a drinking problem. Oh. Didn't see this coming, did you? Carrie Nation origin story, here we come. Carrie didn't see the drinking problem.

I assume because she and Charlie weren't able to get much time together. And also because it probably would have been considered very impolite for a man to be drinking around a young woman. So since Carrie's parents didn't approve of them getting together, Carrie and Charlie started communicating in secret. Which we all know is the sexiest way to communicate. Yeah. Ooh. No. Old school DMs.

He would leave her letters in his Shakespeare book. And then at the breakfast table, he'd be like, Mmm, Shakespeare. Love Shakespeare. And she'd be like, say no more. And then she'd go into his room, scandalous, pull out the letter, and then leave a letter. Do you like me check yes or no? Mm-hmm.

Except way hotter. Because buddy, these letters were steamy. How do you feel when I call you buddy? Buddy. Look at your buddy. I know you don't like it when I call you dude when you call me dude it's because you're upset oh it's because i'm really mad that's letting you know yeah we're getting informal here yeah would you like to hear some of these letters well yeah he wrote to her that he wanted admission to her heart through the portals of her lips.

That could have been way dirtier, but yes. Oh, you're mad at him because he didn't say your vaginal lips or whatever? Yeah, I guess he didn't specify what lips. So Carrie was like, Mom and Dad, you have to let me marry this guy. And they were like, hell no, he's poor and he's probably drunk right now. So Carrie went to Charlie and was like, help me help you. Go out, establish yourself as a doctor. That'll make my parents approve of you.

So. Did he do it? Yeah, he tried. He tried. Okay, this took a couple years. All right, calm down. But he's a doctor in the Civil War. Couldn't he just be like, hey, give me a job. I was a doctor in the Civil War. Okay, he moved out to Holden, Missouri, and tried to establish himself as a doctor there, but he was devastated to discover that the people of Holden, Missouri were actually pretty healthy. Shit. The whole time, Carrie and Charlie communicated in secret. They had friends sneak letters to each other.

They tried to make it seem like what they had was platonic just in case they got caught so in these letters he called her sister carrie and she called him brother charlie but the meat of the letters was steamy so it's more like sexy incest yikes carrie and even back then that wasn't cool Incest No It's always been uncool You're such a brave boy With your hard stances You know what

And your chiseled chin I am declaring I am taking a stand against incest Norm no don't go do that brave thing please I'm doing it. Carrie and Charlie were in love, but the truth was that Charlie did have a drinking problem. He had a really bad drinking problem. He'd started when he joined the military. This was apparently really common at the time. The men had a bunch of downtime between battles

and they just drank to pass the time. You know all about this shit, don't you? Yeah. Soldiers were very bored. Yeah. Just drilling and sitting around in camp and – Drinking whiskey. Drinking was a fun hobby in army camps during the Civil War.

Yeah. And Charlie couldn't stop. It's clear he wanted to. He wrote to Carrie, I tell you, Carrie, love, the time will come, your parents will see they are wrong. God is my support and my strength, and I will prove that to them. Eventually, in November of 1867, Carrie and Charlie did get married. Carrie was so excited, but Charlie showed up completely drunk to their wedding ceremony. Ooh, bad look, Charlie. Yeah. Yeah. And of course, married life didn't turn out how Carrie had hoped.

Apparently, this was sort of common at the time because the rules of courtship were so weird. You know, you would spend very little time together because it was like improper to spend time together. And then all of a sudden you're living together as a married couple. Yeah. Well, hey, even in today's modern romances, I always recommend you live together before you get married. Oh, you do? Whenever people ask me for relationship advice. Which is just constantly.

You're sick of it. I get letters. I get emails. Uh-huh. And I always tell them, you got to live together before you can commit. You're kind of like Steve Harvey in that people are always asking you for relationship advice. You got to live together before you can commit. You're kind of like Steve Harvey in that people are always asking you for relationship advice. And I almost hosted Family Feud.

But I was rejected for being too good. I thought it was your controversial take on incest that stopped you from getting that job. Wait a minute. I'm married to my sister. How dare you take a stand against incest? That was the executive at whatever company runs Family Feud. UPN. Is UPN still a thing?

You know, this is starting to feel as fake as Carrie's stories in her autobiography. Yeah, I'm sorry. Continue the story. So they'd had these steamy letters and all this waiting. And now that they were finally together, yeah, they were in love. But Charlie spent most of his time away from Carrie and she didn't get it. Where was he? Drinking.

Oh, he's just off drinking? Yeah. Yeah. OK. Carrie didn't get it. But five days into their marriage, Charlie came home from another late night and he fell face first into his pillow and passed out. Later, when she went over and smelled the pillow, the stench of alcohol was so strong that she finally understood that her parents had been right. Charlie had a really bad problem. Yep. He spent a ton of time at the Masonic Lodge. Oh, is he a Freemason?

Yeah. John Brown was a Freemason for a very short time. Probably didn't like all the drinking, huh? Yeah. Seriously? Yeah, that was part of the reason he quit like very quickly. Yeah, they were drinking a ton. Yeah.

Okay, well, that was where men could go away from women and get drunk. So Carrie went to the Masons and she was like, please help Charlie stop drinking. And they were like, no, thanks. Lady, he's putting my kids through college. Yeah. Simpsons reference. I know. I apologize.

We all knew. People are starting to catch on. They are. They're starting to realize I have no original bone in my body and I'm not funny. Oh, my God. Classic non-threatening boy behavior. Oh, my God. Norm, your confidence is just too much. It's shot.

I need you to calm down. So people would call on Charlie. You know, they needed him. He was a fucking doctor, but he couldn't do the job. In her autobiography, Carrie referred to alcoholism as a disease, which is interesting because the American Medical Association didn't classify it as a disease until 1956. I think for Carrie to go through something like that, yeah, you would definitely – It would be horrible, yeah. You would definitely consider it a disease.

Yeah. Yeah. She saw what it was doing to her beloved husband. She saw what it was doing to her. She was in a terrible position. As a woman, she had virtually no power. Plus, she had almost no education. She had no way to support herself.

And she was pregnant. Oh. Yeah. She was pregnant and she was married to a man who she now knew couldn't support her, let alone a family. So Carrie did the only thing she could think to do. She went back home to her mom and dad. She left Charlie? Yeah.

She was in a tough spot because I think she had confirmed to her parents that Charlie's drinking was really bad. This was like six months into the marriage. OK. And her mom said something to her like, if you stay there, you have to stay there. You can't come here. And so she had to make a really tough decision yeah so she went back to belton yeah was she was she also in belton with charlie or was she in they were in holden holden yeah okay right where everyone was healthy and perfectly fine yeah

except for the doctor ironically yeah before she left char Charlie told her, if you leave me, I will be a dead man in six months. But Carrie left, and her mom forbid her from communicating with Charlie. She told Carrie if she wrote to him, she'd throw her out of the house. Ooh. Yeah, so Carrie would be either pregnant with nowhere to go or, you know. Yeah. With a very, very young baby. Carrie gave birth to a baby girl whom she named Charlene in order of Charlie.

Charlene. I assume it's Charlene. Oh, that's a joke. Salmon. That's the joke. Charlene. Charlene. Charlene. Charlene. Charlene.

Charlene. I can tell you've not listened to that song enough. No. So that's your homework. Will you sing it, please? Charlene. Charlene. Charlene.

Charlene. I'm begging of you, please don't take my name. That sounded exactly like how I sing it. No. Dolly and I do not agree. Although Dolly's so sweet, she probably would say you don't like her. Well, I think that was just a fabulous rendition of Jolene. She would.

And you changed it to Charlene. Yes. I sure did, Dolly. Thank you. Aren't you the cutest non-threatening boy I've ever seen? Oh, wow. Wouldn't you say that too? Thank you, Dolly. Aren't you the cutest non-threatening boy I've ever seen? Oh, wow. Wouldn't you say that too?

Thank you, Dolly. Well, son, you look like the kind of man who's been bedridden working on his penis organ. She'd say. That's right, Dolly. I've been developing my organ. For years now. Years. One day.

One day it'll be ready. One day it will be ready. So she gives birth and Carrie wasn't allowed to write to her husband to tell him that she had given birth to their child. That sucks. It's awful. Yeah, I think that's weird. He had no idea that she had given birth. No. And he was forbidden to visit, I'm guessing.

I would assume, but also like – If he's an alcoholic and – Yeah, he might not have really – yeah. In the end, Charlie was right. In 1869, he died from alcoholism. He was 29. They'd been married for less than two years. Good lord.

Yeah. Yeah, drank himself to death. Carrie was devastated. She regretted leaving him for the rest of her life. And she always wondered if she was responsible for his death. She wasn't. No, she wasn't. No.

But I can understand her feeling that way. Well, yeah. I mean, you would always wonder if I'd been there, could I have – especially not understanding – well, I guess she did come to understand that it was a disease. But yeah, you'd always wonder. Yep. But in that moment with an infant and a dead husband, Carrie had to do something. She was 23, she was a widow, and she didn't have a career to speak of. And to make things a little more complicated, Charlie's dad had died not long before he did.

So that meant that his mom, Nancy, was totally screwed as well. So Carrie sold some land that her parents had given to her, and she sold Charlie's old medical equipment and his books, and she built a small house in Holden. Oh. Well, that's nice. Well. So she lived there with Charlie's mom. Little house on the Holden.

Yeah. Who she was now financially responsible for. Oh, well, that's not fun. No, it's not. And her infant daughter. And because she desperately needed a career, Carrie began attending the Normal Institute. Which doesn't sound suspicious at all. Nope.

We'll call it the Normal Institute. Yep, nothing weird going on here. They now call it the University of Central Missouri, which sounds much less suspicious. Also a very suspicious name. It took some time. Everyone knows there's nothing in Central Missouri. Right. It's Kansas City on the west side of Missouri and St. Louis on the east side of Missouri.

Central Missouri, there's nothing. Taint nothing, they say. Taint. The normal institute. That's great. It sounds like if aliens came down and they were like, how do we assimilate? How do we not tip our hat? I know.

We'll start a school called the normal Institute and no one will suspect a thing. Yes. Remember when we drove by that town in Missouri called Humanville? And I said, that is where the aliens are. This is where the aliens live. A totally normal town filled with just humans. No one will suspect there are aliens in Humanville. It took some time, but Carrie eventually earned a teaching certificate and she'd be in teaching school.

Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Good job, Carrie. Well, she barely made enough money to get by, after she'd been teaching for four years, this dude starts complaining that she's mispronouncing words in front of her students and she's doing a bad job. Salmon? No, she wasn't that stupid. According to Carrie, she taught the kids that it was okay to say, I saw a man instead of I saw a man. Oh, give me a break.

And that's why she got fired. Are you fucking kidding me? And then guess what? The niece of the man who'd complained about her took Carrie's job. So. What a bitch. Yes. The man, not the niece. Oh, okay. She wasn't the one who did bitch. Yes. The man, not Denise. Oh, OK.

She she wasn't the one who did this. Right. One of her biographers was like, yeah, you know, that story might be true. Or maybe Carrie, you know, pissed some dude off by, you know, saying how she actually felt about something. That's also possible. That seems more believable. Anyhow, now Carrie was super screwed.

So she took it up with the man upstairs. Super screwed. She was. I tell you, I'm not just screwed, I'm super screwed. So she talked to God.

Yeah. What did God say? Well, first of all, you should know that she had mouths to feed. She had no job. Plus, she was a widow, which meant she couldn't wear any cute clothes. I got bills to pay. I got

mouths to feed. And I'm wearing an ugly dress. So Carrie got on her knees and prayed to God to send her a husband. Awesome. Why is that? If this was an 80s movie, it would have happened.

What? Well, you know all those 80s movies that's like – or even 90s movies where they're like – they either pray or they like make a wish or something and then it comes true. Oh, yeah, and then it happens. Yeah. Yes. So this could be a wacky 80s or 90s movie. Oh, yeah. Really fun. Start really fun starts with slavery oh you know hey well according to carrie but it was fine slave people were having a great time everybody loved it it's no big deal and it's a shame it ended but also a relief that it ended

um yeah yeah more later a husband would be the surest way to financial stability, Norman. True statement. And she found one. Yeah? Yeah. It was this dude she'd known for a while. His name was David Nation. David Nation.

Loving on David Nation He seemed successful Seemed? Uh oh Yeah, what? What's wrong? What's wrong? Well, when you say seem

It means he probably wasn't successful Well You tell me what's wrong with this He was a newspaper man And a lawyer And a preacher. Man of many hats. That's right.

So many hats. Too many hats. Maybe. He had five children he was raising. Yeah. And his wife had just died under mysterious circumstances. Yay. Yay.

That's strange. No, no, it happens sometimes. You know, his wife, Samantha, she'd been perfectly healthy and 42 years old, and then she dropped dead. Fall down some stairs. Heard this story before.

No, no, no, no. Word around town was that perhaps their sketchy oldest daughter had poisoned her for the insurance money man this scheme goes way back i know people been doing this this is an old an old timey scheme old timey dateline covered this one yeah josh mankiewicz in a hat who i heard i heard is much older than he looks somebody somebody in the discourse that josh manankiewicz in a hat. Who I heard is much older than he looks. Somebody in the Discord said Josh Mankiewicz was like 68 years old. There is no way he's 68 years old. Hang on.

Josh Mankiewicz. Maybe they were messing with me. That dude is mid-50s. Josh Mankiewicz, 68 years old. Holy shit. He was born in 1955. Damn. So there you go. Josh Mankiewicz 68 years old holy shit he was born in 1955 damn so there you go

hats off to you well there you go folks Josh Mankiewicz keeping it tight what does that mean even it means you take care of your body well there you go clearly

I honestly have no idea who Josh Mankiewicz is. Yeah, you don't have the deep love and respect for Dateline that I do. I don't. And that's one of your many flaws. Thank you. OK. Yeah, so there's this rumor that maybe their oldest daughter poisoned the mom and maybe David had been in on it. But don't worry about it.

I won't ask. Carrie needs a man. Yeah, and if you want to know the truth, David says that his wife, you know, dropped dead because of some shameful things she did in her past. So there you go. So it's her fault, actually. Yeah, when you think about it. When you squint real hard.

Anyway, David started courting Carrie, actually. Yeah, when you think about it. When you squint real hard. Yeah. Anyway, David started courting Carrie. And once again, Carrie's family was like, oh, my God, we do not approve of this. Another dud, Carrie. This dude is maybe a murderer. Also, you're 28. He's 47. We all hate age gap relationships. All of us hate him.

Yeah. Yeah. Everyone. Also, ew, his wife just died. Why is he already courting you? Also, rumor has it that he is also courting someone else. He's horny. Ew, I hate that so much. Please bring back the Hank Hill if you're going to resort to that.

Oh. But Carrie wasn't in a position to be choosy. So in 1874, she married David Nation. He's got a great last name. He does. I'll give him that. He does. Norman Nation.

Can you imagine? Norman Caruso is a great name. Your last name is wonderful. My last name is like the Smiths of Italy. Whatever. Everyone has a last name is wonderful. My last name is like the Smiths of Italy. Whatever. Everyone has a last name Caruso. How do you feel about the fact that I take your last name publicly because I think it sounds pretty, but in actuality, I don't have that last name? How does it make you feel?

I don't give a shit, honestly. All right. Good to know. Norman Nation. That would be pretty cool. Yeah. Double N. Would you ever change to Norman Pitts?

No. I'm sorry, no. What if it was the only way we could continue to be married? Who made this rule? It's a new rule by the Normal Institute. What would you do? If I had to do it to stay married to you, I would do it. Oh, that's so lovely.

That would be a real shame to go from Caruso to Pitts. It's a damn shame. It's a damn shame. But it's for love. That's right. And, you know, I want to get to the portal of your heart. Wait. Kristen.

Yes. You are my faithful mount. Ew. Shut up. That's disgusting. That is disgusting. I love you. I love you, too.

Oh, Kristen, my faithful mount. That is disgusting. It's a romantic thing to say. No, it's not. No, it's not. I recently learned that that is actually dirty. What do you mean? You know, I was writing my script for A Game and a Story,

and I called Yoshi Mario's faithful mount. And I was editing it and you informed me that was that's disgusting that was gross sounds like Mario fucks Yoshi well and that Yoshi isn't stepping out Yoshi is his faithful mount how did you not know that was gross when you were writing that I don don't know. I'm a non-threatening boy. I don't know these things. Okay. Okay. All right.

So Carrie marries David Nation living in a David Nation. That's right. And by all accounts, David was a real dipshit. Oh. He had a handful of careers. He wasn't good at any of them. I thought he was lawyer, newspaper guy. Yeah.

That's suspicious. Lifeguard. Yeah. Life coach, nutrition coach. Herbalife. Yes. Yeah. He did it all, newspaper guy. Yeah, that's suspicious. Life guard. Yeah, life coach, nutrition coach. Herbalife. Yes. Yep. He did it all.

Beach body. What else? Yeah, so not too long. Longaberger baskets. No one does that anymore. Do they? I think they're still in business. In the 90s?

Oh. Yeah, my mom did Longaberger. Those baskets were everywhere. They're still in business. Nope. No, they're still in business. Man, in the 90s? Yeah, my mom did Longaberger. Those baskets were everywhere. They're still in business. No. No, they're not. There's no way. Closed in 2018.

You hate to see it, folks. You do hate to see it. They had the coolest headquarters. They just had a giant – their building looked like a giant basket. Did you go to the headquarters? No. You just saw it? But I remember that because my mom sold Longaberger baskets.

Oh, yeah. She had this pamphlet and it had a picture of the headquarters and I was like, holy shit. Their headquarters is a giant basket. I think if you're a certain age, your mom was required by law to sell Longaberger baskets. Or at least like if you had that gap between the top of the kitchen shelves and the ceiling. You got to fill it with baskets. Early 90s law was a basket on its side with artificial greenery cascading out of it. Like –

Beautiful. Like fake grapes with the vines coming down and just dust just collected absolutely absolutely but sheree ray always dusted the fake greenery because we didn't want it to look bad yeah make sure that looks good the basket of fake greenery to look stupid we have guests coming over will you dust dust the baskets and grapes above the cabinets, please? Also, the basket that sits on the toilet, you've got to have a toilet basket. Have you seen that video of – it's like – it puts like a black light in the room and somebody flushes the toilet and you just see like what shoots out of the toilet.

I'm so glad you finally seen this video because you flush with the lid up. What the? That's not true. That is true, isn't it? Okay. It's not true anymore because I watched the video. There we go. Thank you.

And I don't do it anymore. I always close the lid now because I was disgusted. Disgusting. Yeah, it's gross. And then people's toothbrushes get poo flecks on them. Yeah, it all blends together though. It's fine. Blends?

Like when you brush your teeth, it'll go away. It's fine. Okay, great. Sounds like maybe you're still an open toilet flusher. I'm in denial about our poo atmosphere. I don't want it to be real. So David did a lot of stuff. Sold Longaberger baskets.

He was a lifeguard, lawyer, newspaper guy. Yep, preacher. newspaper guy. Yep. Preacher. Preacher. Hip-hop artist. Yes. Yeah. I mean, David Nation's a great name.

It is. You could be a lot of things. You could be so many things. You could try a lot of them and not really settle on one. Yeah. I say. Which is what he did. Yeah.

So not long after they got married, David got sued by some of his business partners. Oopsies. What was he doing? Don't worry about it. Definitely nothing shady or sketchy. Okay. They were suing him because they didn't like him. Because they were jealous of his last name.

We want to be a nation. Yeah. So to get out of that mess, he was like, I've got a great idea. Let's move to Texas and be farmers. Okay. Yeah. Sure. So to get out of that mess, he was like, I've got a great idea. Let's move to Texas and be farmers. Okay. Yeah. Sure. So they did. And it sucked.

Turns out David knew nothing about farming. Oh, shit. That would suck if you didn't know anything about farming. Yeah. Yeah. And plus, Missouri is way better than Texas. Is it? Everyone knows that. Is it? I don't know.

OK. Their early years in Texas were so bad that it was almost funny. As soon as they got to Texas, their horses died. All of them died. Hawks came and ate all their chickens. And lightning struck their favorite cow. Chickens and lightning struck their favorite cow. Also, a bad neighbor threw all of their plows in the Bernard River.

It's the Bernard River. Oh, Bernard River. Sorry. Excuse me. I actually don't know. Yeah, so that comes from Carrie's book, and it does not give more details. Their cow was struck by lightning? Their favorite cow.

Not just any cow. Not just any cow. Our favorite cow. If it had been Bessie, we wouldn't give a shit. Yeah. But they got Bethel. How are you not more intrigued by the bad neighbor throwing all their plows in the river? I want to know so much more. Well, maybe that neighbor thought they were the bad neighbors.

And so that's why he did it. I mean that's quite the revenge to get on people. Look, in our first episode, I told you about neighbors that one neighbor killed the other because he was chopping down trees on his property. But at least I know why. Oh, so you're you're you don't you want to understand why. Yes. He threw the plows in.

Yeah. Well, Carrie's not going to reveal that information. OK, fine. Once again, David sucked ass. I really can't drive that point home hard enough. He'd moved them all out to Texas to raise cotton. Do you call it raising cotton? Raise cotton?

I don't know. Whatever you do to cotton. Plant it. Raise cotton. I mean, I don't know what the proper term is, but that doesn't sound right. It doesn't sound right, does it? Grow cotton? Grow cotton. That sounds so much better. Yeah, he wanted sound right, does it? Grow cotton? Grow cotton. Harvest cotton? That sounds so much better. Yeah, he wanted to do all of it and he did none of it. And as soon as things got rough, he was like, well, you know what? I think I'm going to go. Don't worry. Don't worry. I see you're concerned. I'm just going to go

find work as an attorney because I'm also an attorney. Oh, OK. So I'll be right back. I'm definitely not just leaving you alone on the farm with a bunch of kids to raise. Did he abandon Carrie Nation? For a while, yeah. He came back whenever he felt like it. This guy sucks. Yeah.

So Carrie really struggled. She did what she could to earn money. She raised pigs, which that sounds a lot better than raising cotton. Anyway, and she sold butter. Ooh, pig butter? Ew, what the fuck is pig butter? She's raising pigs. I would assume she'd make butter from the pig's milk or something.

Probably her least favorite cow is the one who provided the butter. Yeah. It was a tough life. Is pig butter a thing? No, pig butter is not a thing. That's disgusting. What are you talking about, pig butter? Look it up.

I feel like the... No, the closest you get is like bacon grease. There's a restaurant in New York City called Pig and Butter. Yeah. But not pig butter because that is very different. Whatever. Okay. Normie C's 100% organic

pig butter. Normie C, how do you make this pig butter? We're all so curious because it's definitely not a thing that anyone has ever heard of. First you take a pig and then you make it. Milk it? Is that how you make butter? Sir.

What? And you let it sit. Uh-huh. You let it sit. And then you stir it until it turns into butter. Gross. I guess pigs do lactate. This is disgusting.

Why did you do this to us? This is so much worse than the Hank Hill button. This podcast is for thinkers. We want people to be thinking. Yeah. Critical thinking. Maybe vomiting. This is a podcast for intellectuals.

Oh, is it? It is. All these history hoes are very smart. They are intellectuals. Oh, is it? It is. All these history hoes are very smart. They are intellectuals. Yeah. Only the smartest people listen to this podcast. You finished? Yeah, go ahead.

In 1878, things got a little better. There was this hotel called the Columbia Hotel. And Carrie had talked to the people who owned the building and yada, yada, yada. She got the opportunity to lease the building and start running the hotel. Oh, hell yeah. Yeah. Living it up in the Columbia Hotel. In the Hotel Columbia.

Such a lovely place. Such a lovely place. Pig butter in your face. What's this on this bread? That's our original pig butter. You can only get it at the Columbia Hotel. So once again, it was tough, but she turned out to be really good at running hotels. She was warm and welcoming and kept the hotel super clean.

Pig butter on every pillow. Did the hotel have a bar? Hell no. Where's that Todd one? Hell no. Hell no. Here we go. Thanks, Todd.

I want to let everyone know that Kristen made me press that button. They heard me. Yeah. Norm, you're never going to podcast in a way that stops all the haters. That's true. You're always going to get some amount of hate. But I'm a very flexible, non-threatening boy. I will just do whatever the people tell me to do.

That's going to make for terrible podcasting. I agree. You're probably going to want to find a new co-host oh no don't do that to me again i can't handle it that's how i become very sexy and skinny and sickly i lose another podcast host. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Bedridden. Pale. Uterus. Fully developed. I actually grow the other fallopian tube that I lost a couple years ago.

Oh, yeah. All right. Good plan. You lay in bed for six months. It'll grow back. Thank you. You just lay there, watch cops. I'm not watching cops.

Thank you. You just lay there, watch cops. I'm not watching cops. I'm watching Josh Mankiewicz on Dateline and I'm just saying constantly to Dottie and Kit, can you believe this man is 68? I saw a picture when I pulled it up and he looks good for 68. Yeah. Well, you thought he was 50. Yeah, I did.

Yeah. OK. Anyhow. You might not be smart enough to listen to this podcast. Well, you thought he was 50. Yeah, I did. Yeah. Okay. Anyhow. You might not be smart enough to listen to this podcast. But I'm smart enough to be on it. Well, maybe. Think about that. Yeah.

Are you about to kick me off now? Maybe I'll kick you off the podcast. Wow. Who are you going to bring on in my place? Probably the smartest man I know, Daryl Pitts. Oh, my God. Yeah. That'll be great. He's taught me so much. What has he taught you? Well,l Pitts, your father. Yeah. That will be great. He's taught me so much.

What has he taught you? Well, the eugenics thing. Yeah. Called your ass out. Yeah. Yeah. Frank Thomas. That?

Not Frank White. Frank White would not be a good eugenics spokesperson. Why? Well, he's much older than Frank Thomas. OK. And – Doesn't have the real manly, beefy look that you're looking for. Didn't you hear a speech from Frank White at the Royals – was it the Royals parade or something?

I think it was the Chiefs. The Chiefs Super Bowl parade. Frank White made a speech and you were just like, oh my god, this is the worst speech. The man went on and on and on. So monotone. My god. So heotone. My God. So he wouldn't be a good eugenics spokesperson? No, you got to pump up the jam.

That's what I'm saying. Pump up the peen with eugenics. That's right. I can't stand it when someone is like called on to speak and they don't pump up the jam. They don't bring the goods, you know? I agree. Thank you.

You got to get my juices flowing when you talk. Yeah! Yeah! We should probably get back to the story, huh? I don't know. I'm hoping that we'll podcast enough that you loosen up a little bit. I'm a real stiff

boy right now. You're a bit of a stiff boy, but you are talking about pig butter. So I feel like you've lubed up a bit. You're kind of getting greased up. Pretty soon you're going to be touching all over that soundboard. Yeah. I might just lose it and just start going hog wild on these buttons. Yeah, it will be interesting to see how you deal with the weekly feedback from people.

I'd like to hear more about Carrie's hotel that offered pig butter. Yeah. Well, she started bringing in decent money and she became more confident and independent. You know what? Maybe that's what I need. I need to run a hotel and then I'll feel better. I'll get confidence. Yes.

I mean, you would think that having a successful YouTube show might help with the confidence, but no. Take it from me, folks. It absolutely doesn't. If you don't have any confidence and then you get a successful YouTube channel,

you still will not have confidence. You still will not have confidence. Correct. Comes from within. Yep. Unfortunately, Carrie still had her bitch-ass husband. And a few years later, he was like, we should move. But he wasn't running the hotel.

No, he wasn't doing shit. He was like off gallivanting. And then he comes back into town. He's unimpressed with how bossy she has become because she's a boss sorry that's how she's the first one to scream on the track thank you she brings all the pigs to the yard so yeah she's got friends she's got this hotel she's doing great and he's like oh we should move where's he gonna want to go now uh rich Richmond, Texas. He has some vague career aspirations. Nothing lined up, mind you.

Yeah. But he is the man. So they moved. Once again, Carrie ran another hotel. And then they moved again. Yeah. This time to Medicine Lodge, Kansas. Medicine Lodge?

Really? Yep. Okay. Carrie ran a hotel. I think I vaguely know where that is. Where is it? Southern Kansas, kind of near Wichita. Yeah, so it's out west.

Yeah. I was devastated because her home is still standing. It's a museum. And I was like, we should go. And it's like four hours away. That's nothing. We don't have that kind of time. We I was like, we should go. And it's like four hours away. That's nothing. We don't have that kind of time. We're so busy talking about pig butter. We can't do that on the road.

We're starting this pig butter business because oddly enough, no one's thought of pig butter yet. Yeah. Until now. And we can tell people all want it. Yeah. Your listeners are going to go crazy for pig butter. If you sign up on Patreon, we will send you a tub of pig butter. New tier, $25 a month, we will send you a new stick of pig butter. In the mail.

We won't. In the mail, yeah. It'll be in one of those. A bubble mailer? One of those bubble mailers. Yeah. Yeah. I like it.

You'll know when your pig butter is ripe because it'll be a real greasy bubble mailer. It'll smell real weird. It'll smell. And you'll be like, mmm, yes, pig butter. There might be a little pile of vomit by your mailbox because the mailman had to drop it off. Are you ready for this? This month we're doing Italian herbs and cheese pig butter. Oh, gross.

Would you like to know the address for their home in Medicine Lodge, Kansas? Yeah. OK. It's 209 West Fowler Avenue, F-O-W-L-E-R. I know how to spell Fowler. Oh, calm down. You didn't know salmon. Salmon.

Salmon. Salmon. I do feel really stupid about that. I think that's fun, though. Yeah. Yeah, because we're going to make— I calls it like I sees it. It looked like the word salmon, so I called him salmon. Well, and clearly I didn't think anything of it. No, I think that's the fun of podcasting is you're just yourself who cares oh what a humble

little home yeah and it's basically is this like in downtown medicine lodge yeah it's great it's crazy that it's still there yeah and there's a sign out front carry nation home yeah and it's like next to a storage right next to the stockade. Yeah. You know, for 50 bucks, you can buy a log and then you get your name on a plaque. Well, it says here carry approved non-alcoholic drinking

water available here. Non-alcoholic drinking water? Yes. That's what the sign says. Well, you know, back in the day, water – like fresh water was hard to come by. So maybe like – maybe that's a joke and we don't get it because – Well, I know beer was popular back in the day because it was like a safe way to hydrate. Yeah.

But obviously you're going to get twisted. Yeah. Yeah. Also Sparks was very popular back in the day. Dear, what if we got sponsored by Sparks? I don't think Sparks exists anymore. What if we were sponsored by Longaberger Baskets and Sparks? And on set we had a basket full of sparks.

And we have to each chug one. Oh, gross. While we record. Yeah. Old timey after dark for sure. Holy moly. Okay. Very, very cute little house that Carrie lived in.

Yeah. Carrie became kind of controversial in Medicine Lodge right from the start because at her hotel, she welcomed white people and black people. Ooh. Yeah, that's the correct response. Calm down.

You know, that's interesting because Kansas was a free state. But, oh, well, I guess... Racism. Racism. We talked about this. Yes. Racism. You know, that's interesting because Kansas was a free state. But, oh, well, I guess. Racism. Racism. Can go anywhere. We talked about this. Yes.

Racism. If people were down on their luck, she'd welcome them in, feed them, give them something to wear. And sometimes she let them stay at her hotel for years at a time. Years? Yeah. So this was a big point of contention between her and David because Carrie had been through really hard times. And so when she saw other people struggling, she wanted to help them. And sometimes, you know, they were a little sketchy.

I wonder if it was like trauma from her first husband dying. She felt like she couldn't help him and so now she's like,'m gonna help everybody it could be yeah yeah i mean but also like those early days in texas when david just fucked off yeah she almost died and the only reason she survived was i guess some widow nearby like took pity on her and brought her like a little bit of food and that's how she lived so i think she was very jimmy john's party pet yeah she just brought over a simple jimmy john's party carrie was like is this a veggie sub no carrie was a vegetarian oh so she was like is this a veggie sub hell yeah yeah she went hog wild on that thing. Was she really a vegetarian?

Yeah. Interesting. I respect the hell out of vegetarians. Did you know that? I do know that. It's one of your many areas of shame that you're not a vegetarian. It is actually. I love how you were trying to hold back like you're not secretly ashamed.

Shame. That could be a real theme on this podcast because you and I both have a lot of shame. We are both ashamed of not being vegetarians. Yep. Big time. But does the shame prompt us to change? Hell no. Sorry for pressing the button, don't be okay so carrie would you know give her last dollar to people like she told a story in in her book

about this catholic priest came to town and he was clearly really down on his luck. Clearly something was going on there. But she felt for him and she had like two dollars. She gave him the two dollars. Then come to find out later through the grapevine that some Catholic priest had like stolen 30 grand from his congregation and they booted him out and he was like on the run so david would get really pissed because first of all he was bad with money so he wanted all the money to himself and then he finds out she's like doing these charitable acts to these sketchy people too well no here no. Here's the thing.

I think some people really needed it and like you can do sketchy stuff and still need some money. That's true. Or some kindness. Actually, a lot of times when you do sketchy stuff, you definitely need money.

Yeah. Like we're knee deep in this pig butter. We've got to get rid of it somehow. Yeah. And I spent all of our money on this sound board. Yeah. Yeah. You invested so much in the Hank Hill clip. I have to pay a royalty, like we said, every time I press the button.

Oh my God. If that were true, I would launch you out of a cannon. But then we have to buy a cannon. And that's also expensive. I'm going to trade it in for pig butter. And that's how we get out of this mess. Pig butter. That'll save us.

There's always money in the pig butter. You there, sir. You look like someone who would enjoy some pig butter. We can sell it old timey style from a crate in the town square. Yep. Yep. Fresh pig butter here. That's more like at a Royals game. We could sell the pig butter at Roy? Yep. Yep. Fresh pig butter here. Mm-hmm.

That's more like at a Royals game. We could sell the pig butter at Royals games. Yeah. Ice. No, it wouldn't be cold. Hot and fresh pig butter here. Bubble mailers for a pig butter. Pig butter.

Okay. Should we move on? Get your hog lube here. Ew. A.K.A. pig butter. All right. Carrie is a good person helping people down on their luck. And Davida is like, hell no. We need that money.

Quit giving it to people. And maybe charge people to stay at our hotel. Well, she does charge people. But, you know, if they really can't. Yearly rates? Don't you worry. You know what? You sound a lot like David.

I'm judging. David also got back to being a minister and things would occasionally get a little tense on Sundays when David would be preaching and Carrie would stop him

while he was at the pulpit and be like, what you just said was wrong. Did she um actually him? Yeah, because here's the thing. By this point, she kind of thought he was full of shit. She was like, this man's not really that Christian. I'm super Christian.

He freaking abandoned them. Yeah. He sucks. Yeah. Fun fact, Carrie actually got kicked out of two churches in Medicine Lodge. And that's partly because Carrie didn't practice Christianity the way other people did it. She thought it was really shitty and hypocritical that people at church would go on and on about, oh, love thy neighbor,

be good to other people. But when she befriended the so-called lower class people and brought them to church, the other people would be like, ew, stop it. Jesus didn't love everybody. Oh, my God. Who is with Carrie? Miranda. That was pretty good. You've got to admit that.

That's pretty good. We've been watching Sex and the City. Yeah, we have. Yeah. I never watched the show growing up, bits and pieces. It was a very naughty show when I was a child. Well, yeah. But we've been watching it and I've concluded that Carrie Bradshaw sucks and she's a terrible person. You really hate Carrie Bradshaw. Yeah. Samantha should be writing the sex column, not Carrie. No question. No question.

That is the thing that stands out to me now as an adult. It's like, Carrie's a sex columnist who's scandalized by bisexuals. Like,

very basic things. Yes. And when they're out to lunch and someone's like, have you ever, have you ever sat on a 10-inch dildo? And Carrie's like,

Oh my God. I'm not talking about it. We're eating salads right now. I don't kiss and tell. Anyway. She's as bad at being a sex columnist as David is at being a preacher slash lawyer slash cotton raiser. Carrie Bradshaw is basically Carrie Nation. No, not in any way.

Actually, Sex and the City would be a better show if Carrie Nation was the main character. That would be hilarious. And she wrote a sex column. And she smashed all the cosmos. Yeah. Okay. Meanwhile, in Medicine Lodge. I couldn't help but wonder what was going on at the saloon next door.

I couldn't help but wonder, would anyone buy this pig butter? So there I was, up to my tits in pig butter, all alone in my New York apartment. In my Medicine Lodge ranch. Okay, so one time at the Medicine Lodge Christian Church, the preacher stood up at the pulpit and started talking shit about Carrie's neighbor, calling her out as an adulteress, an open adulteress, Norman. She was open about it. That's what he said. It was like, yeah. If she's open, is she really an adulteress?

She's like, hell, yeah, I'm sleeping around. No, that means like she's just being brazen about it. Okay. Yeah, I'm screwing your husband. What are you going to do? Yeah. Like that? Yeah. Okay. But he's like, yeah, it's true. She's cheating on her husband openly,

brazenly. With David? No. You're jumping way ahead. You're making this way spicier than it is. Openly, brazenly. With David? No, no. Okay. You're jumping way ahead. You're making this way spicier than it is. This is – yeah. So yeah, we had to revoke her membership. To the church?

Yeah, which is ridiculous. Did they have like membership cards and stuff? I thought anyone could just go to church. This is how I know you didn't grow up in a church-going household. No, I thought you just go to church. Well, yeah, you can go to church. But like if you're real serious, if you're hardcore church in it, you become a member of the church. OK.

So this woman had become a member. But then she evidently put some dude's member in her and that got her removed from the church thank you except she didn't mess around with some dude's member like her lies her asshole husband said this to the minister and the minister didn't investigate it at all which even then it's like okay so somebody commits adultery now they can't go to church. That's fucking ridiculous. But anyway, so this minister is saying this blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, talking shit. And Carrie was just fuming. So Carrie stood up in front of everybody in the middle of the service and was like, shut up. You have no right to say that. So then she starts talking big shit to this guy. She's like, that woman has been a member of this church for two years because I brought her here.

And none of you, none of you assholes ever paid her a visit or had a kind word to say to her. You suck. You suck. And the church elders were horrified. The minister was like, get her out of here. And so some of the elders went over and they like, you know, kind of grabbed her by the arm. of here and so some of the elders went over and they like you know kind of grabbed her by the arm and her take on this i think was basically because like surely they could have dragged her out yeah but she was like i'm gonna make you drag me out she caused the scene yeah she just wouldn't move

and i guess these dudes were like okay well we're not gonna drag her out of the church so she just sat down in the pew like nothing had happened. And then, you know, after church was over, she got expelled. Well, good for Carrie sticking up for that woman. Yeah, absolutely. Carrie did a lot of good for a lot of people, but her methods were pretty extreme. For example, she was great at fundraising for the poor. And by that I mean she would sometimes go into stores

and ask them to donate clothes or groceries to those in need. And, you know, if the shopkeeper said no, she'd be like, oh, okay, yeah, no problem. And then she'd walk outside and be like, this store is stealing from widows and orphans. They steal from widows and orphans. They steal from widows and orphans. And then the shopkeeper will be like, come back here.

Hey, maybe we got this for you. Here's a nice bag of Sour Patch Kids. Yeah, they always gave some old-timey Sour Patch Kids. Yeah. Here's a lollipop. All ten kids will have to share the lollipop. And they'll all die of dysentery because germs have not been invented yet.

No, germs were invented by then. Did they know about germs then? I don't think they did. It wasn't widely. You don't know. Should I Google when germs were invented? When were germs invented? Hang on.

Viruses were discovered in the 1890s. Yeah. So that would have been a hot new thing. Oh, germ theory was developed. In Europe, right? It looks like, yeah, the final decades of the 19th century. Yeah. So probably not. Medicine Lodge is probably not aware of the germs. No, because President Garfield died in 1881 partly because his doctors were like going in bare knucks into his organs, pushing around. He had just had some Cheetos. Yeah. He just sucked all their fingers and went in. Yeah.

Yeah. Anyhow. Carrie could be a little bit extreme. But again, she was very sensitive to the plight of widows and orphans. Yeah. Anyhow, Carrie could be a little bit extreme. But again, she was very sensitive to the plight of widows and orphans. Yeah. Partially because of her own experience. Sure. She knew that if you were a woman who married a man or just depended on a man who had alcoholism, or I mean, even just a man who was financially irresponsible, you were totally screwed.

Divorce was very uncommon. Women couldn't vote. Women could barely make a living. They had very little power. And one of the things that made life really hard for women was alcohol. Men could literally drink all their family's money away. And a lot of them did. Yeah. And so women became really big advocates for the prohibition of alcohol. And they organized around this idea. Okay. The Women's Christian Temperance Union, not Women's Christian Temperance Union, Women's, which I find annoying, but they didn't ask me. Grammar police. Well, they would go on to become one of the biggest and most influential women's groups of the 19th century. So I'm clearly an asshole.

They campaigned for all kinds of stuff, prison reform, the right to vote, better labor laws, and of course … Prohibition. Get rid of that damn alcohol. Dangerous powers. Prohibition. Get rid of that damn alcohol. Dangerous powers. Dangerous powers. It was kind of perfect because at this time women were seen as defenders of the home, which is exactly what I am. So – Yeah. Well, that's why I was so outraged by that snake in my yard.

That's right. I had to defend this home. And meanwhile, you were like, oh. I leapt into your arms when I saw the snake. I said, oh. Oh, good heavens. A snake. So speaking out about the evils of alcohol was kind of this political loophole for women.

Women could talk about something that mattered to them very deeply and that was really very political while still kind of staying in their lane because they're defending the home. Yes. Got it. And the thing that gets kind of lost in modern day discourse about prohibition and temperance is that in the late 1800s and early 1900s, the idea of getting rid of alcohol entirely was kind of mainstream. It wasn't some radical fringe thing. Yeah. It was definitely somewhat popular. Yeah. And in fact, a lot of places, including the entire state of Kansas, had already made it illegal to sell or manufacture alcohol.

And those laws kind of carried into modern day even. What do you mean, Norman? When we first moved to Lawrence. Yeah. You had – so they didn't sell alcohol in grocery stores. You had to go to a liquor store to get alcohol in Kansas. Did you? See, I forget.

The laws are so weird and I think they vary kind of depending on where you are in Kansas. But like I remember growing up, you couldn't buy it on Sundays. Yeah. Could not buy it on Sundays. Which is so fucking stupid. And I think that's still kind of true. They don't sell it.

I think they sell it on Sundays, but it has to be like afternoon or something. Sunday morning, you cannot buy alcohol. And that's how they completely stopped drunkenness in Kansas on Sundays.

It's a miracle. Yeah, what they're doing. Yeah. And that law was only recently changed. Like only recently has Kansas started selling alcohol and only beer.

You can't buy liquor in grocery stores. Right. But you can buy beer in grocery stores and I think the alcohol level is lower. It is. It is. Wild stuff. Wild stuff. Wild and crazy Kansas.

Meanwhile, in Missouri. Meanwhile, across town, you can buy whatever you want. Yes, and that is still true today. You can buy alcohol literally anywhere in Missouri, meanwhile, across town, you can buy whatever you want. Yes, and that is still true today. You can buy alcohol literally anywhere in Missouri. In Missouri, it was apparently county by county. You would decide whether you wanted to be dry or wet. Speaking of wet.

Yes. Okay, so that state law for Kansas passed in 1881. And, you know, for a while, it was all very like, yeah, we're not drinking. But then, you know, the years passed and people were kind of like, are we really not drinking though? So is this permanent or like? So they referred to this time period as the wet 90s. And that is not a joke. They honestly referred to it as the wet 90s. And that is not a joke. They honestly refer to it as the wet 90s.

Sounds hot. The 90s are back, baby, and they are wet. Sounds fun. Carrie was very much on board with the temperance movement. So she founded her local chapter of the Woman's Christian Temperance Union. And as part of that work, she became a jail evangelist. She'd go to jail, talk about Jesus, talk to people about why they were in jail. And a fair number of the people she met in jail were people who had alcoholism. So something that kind of gets lost in Carrie Nation's story or that maybe intentionally gets lost

is that Carrie didn't hate people who struggled with alcoholism. What she hated was the people who profited off of alcohol and the corrupt politicians who had outlawed alcohol but then turned a blind eye to it being sold all over town. And wow, was it ever sold all over town. Bars and saloons would open at like 8 a.m. And because they were competing with the other bars and saloons, they often started the day by offering men a free drink.

At 8 a.m. Get that foot in the door. They offered free salty lunches. Now that would bring me in. I know it would. A free salty lunch. You get a pretzel hot pocket. Ooh.

Ooh, okay. With quadruple pepperoni stuffed inside. Oh, God, damn. And of course they gave drinks to little boys. Why not? Did they really? Yeah. Was it like Bud Jr.?

No, you wish. Budweiser Jr.? You wish. For the little guy? Hook them while they're young. Mm-hmm. And I mean, I was about to say there's no law against what age you have to be, but it's like, well, no, it was supposed to be illegal entirely. But since no one's following the law, yeah, why not give a 12-year-old Mike's Hard Lemonade?

Fuck it. Why not? Carrie saw what was happening, Mike's Hard Lemonade? Fuck it. Why not? Carrie saw what was happening, and she tried to do something about it. She talked to the bailiff at the local jail, and she's like, hey, you know, a lot of these guys are in here because they drink too much. But this is a dry state, so they shouldn't even be able to get their hands on booze in the first place. Yeah, let's bust some heads. Let's get these people selling the alcohol. Yeah, that's exactly what she said.

She said, shouldn't the people in jail be the ones who are manufacturing and selling alcohol? Yeah. And the bailiff was like, please go away. Look, lady. Look, lady. I don't even like talking to women, and here I am. So Carrie went to the county attorney attorney and she made the same argument. She's like, you need to do something about these illegal bars and saloons.

You're the fucking county attorney. And the county attorney was like, please go away. So then she went to Topeka, state capital. She's big time in us. And she pled her Topeka, state capital. She's big time in us. And she pled her case to the state attorney general. Naturally. And he was like – He's like, oh, God.

Please go away. Please. He's like, I don't – well, so they were just like, I don't want to deal with this. Right. She went to the governor. Same thing. They didn't want to deal with it. Partly because they were profiting off of all this illegal shit.

Yeah, of course. So why would they want to do anything about it? Yeah, technically it's illegal, but – They had the best of both worlds because they'd made it illegal. So people were happy. The temperance people should be happy, but also they're making money. It's way more profitable than pig butter. Just ask us.

We know. We are fucked with all this pig butter. No one's signing up for this pig butter tier at $25. We are up to our eyeballs in pig butter. We're like John Brown with his wool factory. It smells about the same. Really bad. But we will not lower the price on that tier.

I refuse. Yeah, absolutely. We are locked in. So Carrie tried talking to the people in power and they didn't listen. So she tried other methods. She organized marches. She gathered women together and they sang hymns in front of the illegal saloons. What'd they sing? Oh, you're going to hell because you're drinking. No, I don't know.

Something. What a nice little ditty. Thank you. Thank you. She wrote petitions. And yeah, sometimes those efforts paid off. She discovered that if she made a big enough stink, the politicians couldn't ignore her. Mm-hmm. I'm very sorry, Patty. Wow. That's my wife. She beautiful. I'm sorry. Pattyty will you believe that

isn't she lovely i'm about to bust norm you're a very lucky man obviously true folks obviously let me tell you what i love about kristin is it the pimples on my butt is it the constant belching or could it be both okay so here's an example of something she did with her temperance buddies okay so they caught wind that the local druggist was a drinker did they have uniforms they actually had white ribbons. Nice. Thank you for asking. And they wore nothing but the white ribbons.

Whoa. Completely nude. JK. That would never have happened. How dare you? Yeah. So he's a drinker. They're pretty sure. The druggist? The druggist. Is he a pharmacist or a druggist? It's the same thing. It's old timey. Yeah. CVS druggery? It's the same thing. It's old timey. Yeah.

CVS druggery. That's right. Walgreens druggery. So they go in and the guy's like, what's up, ladies? Nothing fishy going on here. Hey, ladies. I mean, if they walked in naked with only a white ribbon on. They were fully clothed.

Head to toe. Okay. And they're like, mm-hmm, mm- like, show us your back room, bub. Let's see it. And he did. And Carrie immediately spotted a big barrel. She went over, sniffed it. Pig butter.

It was whiskey. Whiskey, all right. The pig butter covers up the scent of the whiskey. Nothing back here but pig butter, ladies. Just pig butter. It smells terrible. You don't want to come back here. So there's this big tussle as these women grab the barrel and try to take it outside. Then they smashed it in the street.

But they secretly bottled up a little bit of it. To take as evidence? Don't worry about what they're doing. Or are they going to drink it? Don't worry about what they're stuffing in their petticoats. Or are they going to drink it? Don't worry about what they're stuffing in their petticoats. OK. Obviously, the pharmacist took them to court and he's like, that alcohol was for medicinal purposes.

I could see that. But yes, he's do you think he's full of it? No. They probably prescribed alcohol back then, right? Yeah, that was the loophole was it was medicinal. And that's why so many tonics flourished at this time. And that's why pharmacists loved that alcohol was illegal because they were able to make a ton of money with their tonics. Yeah. Doc, I need a prescription for sparks.

Doc, I need a prescription for sparks. So he's like, I'm a pharmacist. I'm out here doing the Lurds work, dispensing tonics to sick people. And so the court asked him, well, what was in the keg that the ladies rolled out of your shop? And he's like, California brandy. It's very classy, very expensive, very medicinal. Yep. Super medicinal. And the ladies were like, oh, yeah.

You want to know why? Why? Thank you. And they handed him a bottle of alcohol for him to taste since he was such an expert. Yeah. And he tried it and he's like, oh, that's not medicinal at all. That's a poor quality of sour mash whiskey. And they said, gotcha, bitch.

Gotcha. This is from your barrel. And fun fact, Brandy was legal for medicinal purposes, but whiskey wasn't. So he had just fucked up big time in a court of law. Man, they got his ass. Got him. The man was so embarrassed. But afterward, he packed up shop, moved his whole family to Minnesota.

Where most people that have been embarrassed and shamed move to. The whole state of Minnesota is full of people who humiliated themselves in a court in another state. I am humiliated. I'm going to Minnesota. Carrie and her chapter of the WCTU had some successes. But, you know, they're relatively small successes. And also after they had that big victory in court, then, you know, some dudes like busted up their buggies and messed with their houses.

So, you know. some dudes like busted up their buggies and messed with their houses. So, you know. Busted? Calm down. I really didn't know where you were going with that. I was like, do you not know the term busted? Oh, here he goes. Go ahead. Go ahead.

Everyone loved it when you did it last time. Go ahead. So these had been small successes she wanted to make waves she saw saloons as places where men were murdered and she wanted to put a stop to it but she didn't know how so she called on her good pal jesus christ she prayed and prayed and prayed for guidance. And on June 5th, 1900, when she was 53 years old, Carrie Nation heard the voice of God. As she'd later tell it, the voice of God told her to go to Kiowa, Kansas. Kiowa?

Yes. I've never heard of this place. Yeah, so it's a small town near the Oklahoma border. Okay. And she knew from her work as a jail evangelist that a lot of men went to Kiowa to get drunk. I've never heard of this place. Yeah, so it's a small town near the Oklahoma border. Okay. And she knew from her work as a jail evangelist that a lot of men went to Kiowa to get drunk. And the voice of God told her to go to Kiowa and also, I'll stand by you. I'll stand by you. That's, yeah, beautiful.

Thank you. That's, yeah, beautiful. Thank you. The voice told Carrie to take something with her to throw at the saloons and bars in Kiowa. And that's exactly what she did. What did she bring? Okay, that morning she went outside, starts grabbing rocks. Except they weren't technically rocks, they were, I think she called them brick bats or something. I don't know. Basically

they're bricks or rocks or whatever. There's a huge difference. Were they bricks or rocks? Shut up. There, she specifically said in her book that there weren't a lot of rocks there, but I already had it in my script

that they were rocks and here you've caught me, okay? Interesting. But I also don't think there were probably bricks lying around, so I feel like it was brickish material. Okay. Anyhow, she gets them them we might have your own

mistakes of shame segment next week i will on this very subject i will have no shame about so she grabs all these rocks or bricks or whatever and she wraps each one in newspaper so that if anyone saw her she would just look like an innocent lady carrying a bunch of packages. Oh. Oh, yeah. And of course, her worthless husband didn't give a fuck what she was doing. So she's like, bye, I made dinner.

I'm going to go stay at a friend's house tonight. And he's like. In Kauai. Kiowa. Kiowa. I'm heading to Kiowa. And he's like, OK, I don't care. Bye.

Yeah. And on June 6th, 1900. Well, he was old as hell now, right? Sure. He's like, okay, I don't care. Bye. Yeah. And on June 6th, 1900. Well, he was old as hell now, right? Sure. He was like 74 or something. Yeah, he was probably watching Matlock in his refiner. That's exactly what he was doing. Yeah.

And on June 6th, 1900, Carrie got in her buggy, rode 20 miles to Kiowa. And when she got there, she made a splash. She walked into Dobson's Saloon in Kiowa, Kansas. The wet 90s continues. Dressed completely in black. Yep. As soon as she entered the bar with her arms full of packages, she shouted, Men, I have come to save you from a drunkard's fate.

And before those dudes knew what hit him, she started launching rocks all over that bar. She destroyed the bar, smashed the mirror, smashed the bottles, picked up the cash register, and boom, threw it down. Picked up the slot machine, boom, threw it down. She opened the faucets of every barrel she hulk smashed the bar and she walked out dripping head to toe in booze wow and all these guys were were all these guys just saying they were stunned hey stop that hey no don't do that they were fucking shocked yeah they were shocked it sounds like she went ape shit this grandma walks in bust their shit up and then she went to another bar across the street she hulk smashed that one and then she went to another bar yeah it'll be funny but the bar across the street looked out and they're

like oh my god look at that woman destroying that bar. Glad it's not us. And then you see her coming towards you. Oh no. And you're like, oh shit! She's got more. Oh, it's okay. She's just got packages.

By this point, a crowd had gathered to watch what she was doing. People were stunned. This bitch was crazy! There were some other bars in town and they saw what was happening and they shut their doors and closed up for the day. They didn't want her to come in and smash their shit. Oh, no, this isn't a bar. No. This is a water cure infirmary.

We're giving these men enemas. Complimentary douches at the start of every morning. That's right. So the guy who owned that first bar that she smashed up, his brother was the local sheriff. So he's like, you're going down. My brother's a sheriff. But Carrie was like, no, I'm not. One of the dudes who owned one of the buildings she'd smashed was like, you're going to have to pay for that window.

And she's like, no, I'm not. You own that building. You know that it is being used for an illegal activity. So you're a party to that crime. Oh, so she's like, yeah, take me to court. Uh-huh. So by that point, the sheriff was there. The mayor was there.

The city attorney was there. And Carrie loved it because she had this big audience. And she knew that these men were powerless so she openly admitted she goes yeah i just destroyed three of your businesses illegal businesses yeah she goes who are you going to arrest sure looks like a lot of people are doing illegal shit here am i the lawbreaker or are they? And the mayor and the city attorney and some of the other dudes got together and they were like, oh shit,

let's just let this lady go. So Carrie Nation was free to leave. She got back on her buggy, headed back home. By the time she got to Medicine Lodge, word had already spread. She was badass. Yeah. Yeah.

The fuck are you going to do about it? She smashed the shit out of three bars, and the powerful men in town hadn't been able to do anything about it. And then a few days later, a tornado hit eastern Kansas, and Carrie was like, see, I knew it. God was on my side the whole time. Okay. That's was like, see, I knew it. God was on my side the whole time. That's not nice, Carrie. Calm down. The Kansas chapter of the WCTU was so proud of Carrie that they gave her a medallion. Oh, hell yeah. Which was inscribed, to the bravest woman in Kansas.

Isn't that cool? That's pretty cool. What? You seem like you have more to say. Have you always wanted a medallion? You seem a little twinkly-eyed about it. I'm wondering if they still give out that award. I don't think this organization is still in existence.

Fuck. Well, no, maybe it is. Okay. Sorry, Norm. Hang on. Let me look it up. It is still in existence. Fuck. Well, no, maybe it is. Okay. Sorry, Norm. Hang on. Let me look it up. It is still a thing. Ooh.

Maybe you can start the Kanjish, the Kanjish chapter. The what? Kanjish. I don't live in Kansas. I live in Missouri, the great state of Missouri. Oh, right. Right. Plus I drink, so.

She's a hypocrite. A lot of things just adding up here. Sorry I'm late. I was getting smashed. Sorry, ladies. Sorry, ladies. Carrie Nation was in all the papers and a lot of local bars got shut down. They felt like the writing was on the wall. They said, shit, if she comes here, we're fucked. It's worth noting that Carrie Nation wasn't the first woman to smash up a bar. Oh, unoriginal. Yeah, loser. Okay. She's kind of like you with the Simpsons quotes. Yeah, I know that feel. Ooh, 1855?

That same year. Wait, what? Oh, go ahead. You were about to say, you know. Let's hear it. What do we know? I was going to say, John Brown was probably hanging out. Yeah, he was probably like, go ladies, go ladies, go.

Yeah. That same year, 15 women in Illinois smashed a saloon. And the lawyer who got them acquitted was a little-known man named Abraham Lincoln. Oh, yeah? Yes! Lincoln acquitted him? Yeah. See, that Lincoln's a good guy. Mm-hmm.

Not a drinker. So even though Carrie Nation wasn't the first woman to do this, she'd done it alone. And she'd gotten people's attention. And she wanted to keep it. So she smashed more bars. And got more famous. And she got arrested.

A lot. Carrie put law enforcement in a tough spot because if they were going to come down on her, they needed to come down on the bar owners too. And they super didn't want to do that. Hell no. I'm sorry. I feel like I've got a hair in my mouth.

I don't think I do. Nope. I'm so glad that we're hearing some good ASMR noises right now. I'm so glad that we're videoing this. Okay. So anyway, after a while, Carrie decided to kick it up a notch. Until this point, she'd attacked a bunch of dive bars. But now, she was ready to attack the fanciest saloon in all the land. And that, of course, was the saloon in the Hotel Carrie in Wichita, Kansas.

Ooh, pretty big city. Yep. And this saloon was nice. It had a beautiful glass mirror, incredible woodwork, a mahogany bar, and a massive oil painting of a naked Cleopatra. Whoa. Which Carrie found to be too sexy. She did not like the nudity at all. Because it was too sexy.

She felt like the bartenders should be ashamed and think, would they want their mothers up there naked like that? No, they would not. So therefore, you shouldn't be showing a bunch of naked ladies. Although she did think the oil painting was quite beautiful. Look, I respect the art, but like. Yes, yes. Come on. Come on.

Quit turning me on with these big tits. That's what she said. I don't know if Carrie Nation felt that way. At 8 a.m. on December 28th because, yeah, the bar was full, which is ridiculous. At 8 a.m.? 8 a.m. I told youth because, yeah, the bar was full, which is ridiculous. At 8 a.m.? 8 a.m. I told you they start out drinking. They keep drinking.

They go on drinking. And all the while they're looking at a naked Cleopatra. They got free fried pickles. You come in. Oh, that would do it for me. December 28th. Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

Except I wouldn't be allowed in there unless I was a sex worker. That was the loophole. gosh. Yeah. Except I wouldn't be allowed in there unless I was a sex worker. That was the loophole. Yeah. Yeah. Their pig butter promotion, no one came in. But free fried pickles and also there are sex workers here. Bring them in, boys. You'd get a ton of clients.

So Carrie Nation walked into that fancy-ass bar and she shouted, Peace on earth and goodwill toward men. And she started smashing. She smashed and smashed and smashed. And the bartender just stood there shocked like a chump. 30 minutes later at 8.30 a.m. Was she using bricks again? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, baby. Not yet. Well, we're not sure. It could be rocks because no kristin's research was lacking a little bit now i apologize it's my moment of shame yep it's she said brick of bats was what she called it which i was not familiar with the term well everyone knows what a brick of bats is. No, they don't. Come on. Come on.

30 minutes later, by 8.30 a.m., Carrie Nation was sitting in jail. She'd done $3,000 worth of damage. Inflation? $100,000 worth of damage. God damn, Carrie. Yes.

Meanwhile, across town. Carrie was deeply in debt and in huge trouble carrie was sitting in a jail cell she was in jail for three weeks she wasn't given a pillow she wasn't charged with a crime the jailers knew that she hated cigarette smoking so they gave free cigarettes to they're fucking with her the people yeah yeah uh they purposely brought in a lot of people who had some really bad problems just to make her stay worse and then since they didn't have a charge uh they were like oh you're going into quarantine yep there's a kind of an outbreak of i can't remember they made it up they there was no

outbreak of anything or if there was they didn't give a shit but yeah yeah so she's stuck in there because she pissed off the important people this time but from her jail cell she said you put me in here a cub but i will come out a roaring lion and i will make all hell howl good nice quote but the truth was this shit was scary because at this point she was scaring the men. She was scaring the men with power. And that meant that she was in danger. In her autobiography, she talked about how at this time the men in power wanted her declared insane. That probably would have been the most effective way to shut her up. They'd already succeeded to some degree in messing with her reputation.

She was a woman speaking out against corruption, so they made fun of her looks. She famously hated corsets and talked a lot about how she believed that corsets were damaging women's internal organs. Which was probably true, right? It's absolutely true. But also, ew, natural waistlines are probably true, right? It's absolutely true. But also, ew, natural waistlines are so gross, right? Tell me about it. You should see mine. Well, you're a man, so you're fine. What if I'm a man with great shame? Oh, well, then maybe we ought to get you fitted for a corset. Her opponents went on and on about her mannish features and her mannish behavior.

She was described and is still described to this day as having been six feet tall. How tall was she actually? Well, hang on. In fact, on the Kentucky government website dedicated to her birthplace, there's an article on there that says that she was six feet tall and that since she was so tall, she probably had no choice but to marry the first man who proposed to her. What? That's on the – Yes. What? Because she's just a tall freak.

Yeah, she was so freakishly tall. I just need any man. You're the first man who proposed to me and I said yes. It's because I'm freakishly tall. So it's funny because I read this stuff initially about her being six feet tall and I was like, that is so cool. And I did not question it at all. And it wasn't until I read the book by Fran Grace, I think is her name, who she was like, no, they were just trying to – that was just a lie. She was a little over five feet tall.

And then you go back and look at pictures and you're like, oh, no shit. She's not six feet tall. She was a short queen? Just a little over five feet tall. She was the height of the average woman. Clearly, you can see in these pictures. It's like, OK, if she's six feet tall, then every man around her is six foot seven. Or, you know, I mean, it's just like it's so infuriating how these lies get spun and they still get told.

Like the thing about her mom thinking she was Queen Victoria. Yeah. Her mom did not think that. Anyhow. And that's on an official government website. Oh, that's everywhere. That is in so many places. What the? Thank you. It's bullshit.

I only included that because it was like she was so tall she had to accept the first proposal. Fuck off. That's the other I only included that because it was like she was so tall she had to accept the first proposal. Fuck off. That's the other thing is like people talk about her being ugly. Yeah. But she was hot as hell. Well, here's the thing.

By the time she became famous, she was an old woman. So whatever. She's an old woman and she's not doing the fashionable thing. She's not doing corsets or whatever. But you look at a young Carrie Nation. I'm going to look up young Carrie Nation. Yeah. But also here's the thing.

It's not the point. That's right. Because like I don't care if someone's ugly, pretty, whatever. I just hate that like this is the thing that is used against her her looks yeah and it's such a good way of keeping so many women quiet like okay if you step out we're going to call you fat we're going to call you ugly and especially in this time period it was like okay well what's the worst thing we can do well we're going to say you're like a man. You're behaving like a man. Yeah. Not very womanly.

That's right. Yeah. So the patriarchy feared her because as the temperance movement gained steam, the women's suffrage movement gained steam too. So we have to make her into something she wasn't. Crazy, ugly, unreasonable. So they were basically like she's not really a woman. Right. Yeah.

Right. Because what about her poor husband? Shouldn't she be at home with him? Yeah, what about him? Right. He probably hasn't looked up from Matlock at all during all this. No. He's watching these reruns.

He thinks he's seeing it for the first time. Yeah. Man. At this point in time, there was no better way to shut a woman up than to have her declared insane. The common story about Carrie's mom is that Carrie's brother had committed her

to an insane asylum because she thought she was Queen Victoria. And it could be true that Carrie's mom had mental health problems, but Mary was put in that insane asylum by a son who owed her money. And at this time, women could be easily sent to an insane asylum, especially by their male relatives, over reasons like, and this is no joke. This is a list of reasons from a Missouri asylum.

OK. Overwork, domestic trouble, religious excitement, and masturbation. So if they were masturbating, you're going to the asylum? Yeah. You hate to see it, folks. Yeah, lock them up. You're going to the asylum? Yeah. You hate to see it, folks. Yeah. It's scary. Didn't doctors used to, like, I guess it's not technically masturbating.

They would cure hysteria. Yeah, they'd give women an orgasm. Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Hubert Montgomery's magic stick. I tell you what. Imagine going, back then. It was going to the doctor. You get your medicinal tonic.

You get drunk off margaritas and then the doctor gets you off. What a time. Great Tuesday afternoon. I feel so much less hysterical. Oh, I feel so much better. Thank you, doctor. Gosh, that would probably be a good episode. Old timey cures. I'm just thinking. Gosh, that would probably be a good episode. Old-timey cures?

I'm just thinking about hysteria. I'm getting hysterical just thinking about it. Remember, this is a podcast for intellectuals. So let's keep it classy. Let's keep it educational. Yeah. OK. Well, I feel like if at some point people feel like they're not focusing enough, then maybe they need to cure their hysteria.

Pause the podcast. Cure your hysteria. And then come back to us. And then listen again. I'm about to bust. So the stuff about Queen Victoria. Carrie talked in her autobiography in kind of a disparaging way because, again, she did not like her mom. She didn't say I don't like my mom, but, you know, we all get the idea.

She talked about how her mom liked the finer things and she liked to be tootled around in a carriage. And it appears that that is the basis for an exaggeration that her mother thought she was Queen Victoria. Because she liked the finer things in life and liked to tootle around in a carriage? Yeah. So that's that grain of truth, which I will say Carrie had really strong feelings about anything too fancy. So who knows? But anyway, so that's that little kernel of truth and then she was written about by all these men over the years men who's honest to god one guy

was like yeah she she only did all this stuff because of menopause oh dear god fucking ridiculous so anyway so her mom had been placed in an insane asylum and she had died in that asylum. And now, like 10 years later, Carrie was dealing with this looming threat that she'd be declared insane too. So she started writing editorials trying to prove she wasn't insane. A lot of credit is given to her husband, David, for being the one to get her out of jail. And yeah, I mean, he did. He was a lawyer. Barely.

And a lifeguard. And a newspaper guy. Uh-huh. Long a burger. Yeah. He showed up with baskets full of Bibles. Barber life. Yep.

What else? Okay, but here's the thing. Reading between the lines. This is just me talking. Shaved dice. She – shut up. She talked in her autobiography about how men came to meet her in jail talking about how they wanted to take her on the lecture circuit. They wanted to put her on stage.

These guys saw dollar signs. Right. personal opinion is that when she finally did agree to let one of these men be her manager, that's kind of the thing that helped keep her out of jail and out of the asylums. And I don't know. I just feel like, first of all, she did have powerful friends. She had a lot of people who were very supportive of what she was doing. So she'd had this trial earlier where she was doing. So she'd had this trial earlier where they tried to declare her insane. And that was a no go. But yeah, I just I just have this feeling that especially, you know, obviously, these men are worried about their money, and what's going to happen if we get rid of booze and blah, blah, blah. But now there are these other guys who are like, Oh, I could make money

off of you by putting you on the lecture circuit. Why don't I pay some people off? Again, this is just me talking. Yeah. But I am a very tall woman. So you should probably listen to me and be afraid. It really explains why you were into me because I was just the first guy you stumbled upon. You were the first guy who showed an interest.

Not true. That is not true at all. Look at me. Just look at her. Just look at me. Just look at her. We have video now. Just look at her, folks.

Just look at me. At any rate, David picks her up from jail. By this point, he's pretty humiliated by her antics because he turned off the matlock. He realizes she's super famous now. They're getting into these fights because he's like, you're famous now. Make some money. And she's like, I will make money and I'll give it to the poor. And he's like, God damn it.

She said, I'm not about that money. So he kind of mumbles sarcastically. Next time you do this, you should use a hatchet. And she's like, great idea, David. That's exactly what I'll do. Oh, shit. So she went out, smashed up another bar, and when she did, she famously used a hatchet. Nice.

It was around this time in 1901 that David divorced her. They'd been married for 29 years. He felt his manhood threatened. Yeah, absolutely. Carrie knew they didn't love each other. She knew they didn't have a good marriage. But she was surprised and humiliated by the divorce. Divorce back then, common?

Not so common. Not common at all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, I guess it would be in society was kind of an embarrassing thing to get divorced. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Especially because she's made to look like the bad guy.

She was not being a true woman. Yeah. Too tall. Too tall to be a woman. The Carrie Nation story. Too tall. Too tall to be a woman. The Carrie Nation story. Too tall. David claimed in their divorce papers that she deserted him. Oh, bullshit. He complained, I married this woman because I needed someone to run my house.

And everyone was like, yeah, that makes sense. There's nothing wrong with that. He's the one that went off in Texas and was like, I'll be right back. And then he left. He's a total douche. He also tried to charge her with cruelty in the divorce. But the thing was, Carrie Nation had helped so many people and been so good to so many people that that did not fly. Even though the people in power didn't like her, there were enough people who would stand up for her that that just didn't work. But Carrie's opponents loved that she'd gotten divorced.

A silent film came out titled Why Mr. Nation Wants a Divorce. It was produced by Thomas Edison, by the way. He produced many films back in the day because he invented the film player thingy. We can't be more specific than that. Yes. In this film, which I watched,

a man is trying to take care of a baby. Can you imagine? And he's doing a terrible job because man. And then his big manly wife gets home, catches him taking a sippy sip of alcohol, and she spanks his butt. She spanks him? Yeah. Well, I kind of want to watch this.

Yeah, it's super sexist and stupid. Can we watch it? Is it on YouTube or something? Yeah, I watched it on YouTube. That's crazy. Uh-huh. Can we watch it? Is it on YouTube or something? Yeah, I watched it on YouTube.

That's crazy. Uh-huh. You know, we thought during our Mistakes of Shame segment that we would give spankings for every mistake we made. Yeah. I still want to spank you for all the mistakes you made on camera. I am wearing my gray shorts today. I don't know if you want to spank me. I saw you wearing those.

I was like, my God. Everyone, he's wearing his gray sweatshorts. I mean, I almost called them sweatpants shorts. They're sweatshorts. And they have permanent stains on them. They're not stains. Worn threading. That's all.

Very comfortable. It looks like jizz. What a price to pay for saving the earth. Okay. He's a hero, everyone. Thank you. Carrie suspected that David had been pressured to divorce her and that perhaps her opponents thought that if she was divorced, she'd be less able to carry out her fight against alcohol. But they were wrong.

She took the proceeds from her divorce with David and bought a big-ass house in Kansas City, Kansas, which she turned into a home for drunkards, wives, and mothers. Do we have the address? I do, but it's not there anymore. What's there now? Just houses. Pizza Ranch? So the address, if you want it, is 738 Grandview Boulevard grandview boulevard kansas city kansas the last i could find was in 1922 and there was an article in the paper saying they were going to do some renovations and then i couldn't find anything about it yeah it looks like a neighborhood yeah

yep the wild thing about that is people look back on that now and it's like, well, that's one of the first domestic violence shelters. That's incredible that she did that. Yeah. By this point, Carrie Nation was super famous and people tend to think that she just cared about alcohol, but she actually hated a ton of shit. I hate many things. Yeah. She also hated smoking. Oftentimes when she saw a man smoking on the street, she'd go up to him, yank the cigar out of his mouth, throw it on the ground and stomp on it. OK. Well, that's a little too far, Carrie. Well, I mean, she took a hatchet to saloon.

So she's not a subtle lady. Yeah. She took great pleasure in telling smokers how smelly they were. That's great. She also hated fashion. It was all vanity. Carrie really didn't like it when women wore bright colors. And as a way of discouraging people from wearing bright colors,

she was like, you know, Native Americans love bright colors. Do we really want to be like them? All that beadwork? For real? All that turquoise? For real? Yeah. Here's the thing I hate. You know, I want people to be like all good or all bad. I want simplicity in my folks. Nope. This woman did a lot of great things and i think she has been so disrespected and so intentionally misunderstood and i fucking hate that but at the same time reading her autobiography yeah she's like talking about fashion and i'm like well how bad can this be oh wait native americans wear bright colors therefore that sucks yeah also I mean she did I'll talk some more about like the things she did for black people and like yeah for her time

she was so incredibly out there and progressive uh but at the same time she was like you know the real problem is that black folks are bitter now because they're trying to get on the same social standing as white people and they should just stop that and kind of go back to how it was in slavery times go back to those attitudes and it's like good god carrie fuck off go back into slavery not back into slavery but she was like back into how they were in those times. And it's like, bitch, you mean how they were when people were terrified that you were going to sell their children out from under them? You want that? Like most people's lives, they're very complex.

So, yeah, Carrie Nation wasn't. I'm just saying I'm a simple woman. You want all good. I want all good or all bad that's right and with me you got all good i've never done anything wrong oh really yeah except the soundboard fiasco exactly and the frank white fiasco let's never forget that shame anyhow carrie kept smashing bars with her hatchet. She smashed up bars on 12th Street in Kansas City, Missouri. She was arrested again and again and again. Do we know where in Kansas City, Missouri she was smashing?

I mean on 12th Street downtown. I could have looked that up. I'm very sorry. Oh, you know, that's right. When we were out to lunch the other day, you were asking me where 12th Street was. Yeah. And I was like, why do you need to know that? And I was like, no worries.

No reason. Don't worry about it. Oh, my God. So she's arrested again and again. She's beaten again and again. One time she busted up a saloon in Enterprise, Kansas, and the person who stopped her was the saloon owner's wife, Belle Schilling. Belle Schilling punched Carrie Nation right in the face.

Jesus. And Carrie didn't fight back. She didn't say a word. She just walked into a nearby butcher shop and walked out with a hunk of raw beef over her eye. Nice. And she just kept on preaching about the dangers of alcohol. Nice and cold, get the swelling down. So gross. Yeah.

The next day, as she walked the streets talking about the dangers of alcohol, Belle and her little bitch boy husband paid four sex workers to attack Carrie. They beat her with sticks and whips. They kicked her into the gutter. They pulled out her hair. And the only reason this stopped was because Belle's mother was there and she was like, okay, you have to stop. This is ridiculous.

Yeah, you're going to murder her? Yeah. A bartender in Kentucky smashed her over the head with a chair. She received death threats. One bartender held a gun her over the head with a chair. She received death threats. One bartender held a gun on her, and she said, I'm not afraid of your gun. Maybe it would be a good thing for a saloon keeper to kill Carrie Nation. She knew her power.

She did. She knew. She was also kind of funny, so she could diffuse situations a bit. Yeah. She was also very inspired by John Brown. Who? He'd become a martyr. Spoiler alert for next week's episode.

And she wondered if being murdered would make her a martyr too. Fair. Part of the reason that we still know Carrie Nation's name today is that she was a marketing genius. She sold little pins in the shape of hatchets. She sold photos of herself. And in every photo, she held a hatchet in one hand and a Bible in the other. She went on the lecture circuit. And when she spoke at churches where black people weren't welcome, she was like, okay, but you're going to make an exception today. And if that makes you uncomfortable, you can leave. Damn right.

And people did leave. And they were really pissed about it. Oh. She published a newsletter called The Smasher's Mail. She published a newspaper called The Hatchet. That's a good name. Fun fact. She co-owned The Smasher's Mail with a guy named Nick Childs, and Nick Childs was a black businessman and politician who, oopsies, ran a saloon.

So, yeah. Awkward. They only put out three issues before they got into a big fight and stopped running the business together. Wait a second. Yes. I got to go to my other job at the saloon. Wait a minute. She even changed the spelling of her name from Carrie, C-A-R-R-I-E, to C-A-R-R-Y so that her name would be Carrie Amelia Nation, a.k.a. Carrie A Nation, as in carry a nation for prohibition.

And then she trademarked her own name because she was a business cat. This is very business cat-like activity. Yes. Next you're going to tell me she has a podcast. She totally would have. She would have. She inspired people. People participated in the hatchetations with her.

That's what she called them. And they did their own hatchetations. She had lots and lots of supporters. And the laws in Kansas became stronger against alcohol. We all want Carrie showing up to our bar. Yeah. Even though she didn't have the right to vote, Carrie did have political power. Politicians were afraid of her and her army of home defenders.

She became infamous. Bars began posting signs that read, All nations are welcome except Carrie. Some of her publicity stunts didn't go over well. She did the vaudeville circuit. She played music halls in England. And people mostly showed up to mock her and throw eggs at her. That's sad.

People were always making fun of her. But she was pretty quick, and she wasn't always the butt of the joke. Once, a physician tried to convince her that alcohol was totally harmless. Like, actually kind of good for you. I've heard this before. And instead of arguing with him, she's like, oh, okay. And she went and got a case of beer. And she chugged a bottle, picked up another bottle, chugged it, picked up another bottle, chugged it. And the doctor was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, stop.

You're going to get alcohol poisoning. And she goes, what? I thought this was supposed to be good for me. Checkmate. Did she actually chug actual beer? Yes. Wow. To prove a point.

Excellent. That's the thing. She wasn't some like, she didn't freak out. Yeah. At the sight of alcohol. Well, she did smash it all. She kind of did freak out at the sight of alcohol.

Another time she suspected that a bar owner was trying to use her to drum up business. So he bragged to her about his big expensive mirror that he had in his bar like, Oh, it would be a shame if something happened to it and he invited her to come see it and when she came to the bar oh look a bunch of reporters are there oh a bunch of people are there and she's like this motherfucker thinks i'm stupid he wants me to smash that mirror so he can keep it as a souvenir yeah so she got up on his bar and acted like she was going to smash the mirror and instead she just talked to the crowd about the dangers of alcohol and she smashed up all of his booze. All of his profits.

Yeah. Yeah. Carrie Nation is often characterized as this nutty woman who went flying off the handle over alcohol. And it's true that she was very extreme. And it's true that she was very extreme. But her methods were more understandable in the context of what life was like back then and in the context of what little power women had back then. She famously told politicians, you refused me the vote. I had to use the rock.

She's got some great quotes. Yes. She was very intelligent. And it was true. She always tried to talk to the politicians first. And yeah, when they ignored her, she started smashing. Smash it. Later in life, Carrie moved to Eureka Springs, Arkansas.

Ooh. Love it. Lovely little town. She never stopped advocating for the prohibition of alcohol. In fact, in Eureka Springs, she bought a home big enough that it could house herself and several women who'd lost their homes due to their husband's alcoholism. And she died shortly after giving a speech in Eureka Springs. Her last words on stage were, I have done what I could. And she collapsed.

Man, it's like in a movie. Yeah. She was rushed to a hospital in Leavenworth, Kansas, which is nuts to me because that is a very far way to go, especially in those times. Wait, wait, wait, wait. She collapsed? On stage. In Eureka Springs? Yeah yeah and taken to leavenworth yeah there's no way okay you can argue with well there is a chance i got it wrong and i'll have to yeah i'll have to go into the corner on the would die on the way. Yeah, probably. Were cars around yet?

No, this was like, well, this was like 1911. Even by car, that would take a while. Yeah, it'd take a while today. Yeah, you might be owning up to some mistakes of shame next week on this. But anyway. Anyhow, rushed to Leavenworth, Kansas, and she died there on June 9th, 1911. She was 64 years old. Carrie Nation was buried in Belton, Missouri, next to her parents. And for several years, her grave was just marked by a piece of painted wood.

Painted wood? Yeah. That would rot so quickly. Yeah in 1924 the woman's christian temperance union erected a gravestone for her that read faithful to the cause of prohibition she hath done what she could she hatch done what she could ah they totally missed that opportunity okay so i'd like to close with a quote from the historian Mark Lawrence Schrod. He wrote, By playing up her eccentricities, mocking her femininity, fundamentally misconstruing her religious beliefs, and laughing off her convictions, historians have made Carrie Nation a paper cutout of the temperance movement, easily crumpled up and thrown away without ever needing to consider that her grievances actually had merit. And that is the story of Carrie Nation.

Oh, thank you. Excellent job. I am fascinated by her. Well, like I said, I think most people know her as, oh, the lady that smashed the bars. Yeah. But like – And she's kind of a laughing stock. Yeah.

But yeah, now we understand her life, what she went through. I didn't know about her first husband. That's sad. It's tragic. It's awful. Yeah, and then her shitty second husband. Oh, God. What a douche. He died two years after the divorce, and that shithead.

And she even paid for his gravestone. She is a bigger person than I am. I would not have done that. Yeah. Yeah. I would have said, rot in the ground, you scoundrel.

Yeah. Here's a piece of painted wood. No, I'm a non-threatening boy. I probably would have just been like, oh, that's too bad. I'm going to eat this hot pocket with quadruple pepperoni. This pretzel hot pocket and not say a thing. Yeah. Yeah.

Very interesting. And not say a thing. Yeah. Yeah. Very interesting. That is one thing that, you know, when people talk about prohibition and they think, that's crazy. Why would they ban alcohol? And it's like, well, there are a lot of good reasons for prohibition. Obviously, it didn't work.

But I think the reasons – And ironically, like it didn't work. Right. But I think the reasons – And ironically like it made things worse. Yeah. But I think like people's reasoning for wanting to ban alcohol was a good reason. Yeah. And I'm not saying that we should ban alcohol. No. I'm just saying that like – I don't know.

I'm just saying that like – I don't know. I guess my understanding of it – I appreciate the reasons why people wanted to ban alcohol. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. I tried to write this out and then I felt like I couldn't write it well. So let's see if I can say it. OK.

But it's like, OK, at this time period, especially knowing that women were this big driving force behind this movement, it's like, OK. Well, to me, the bigger solution is that everybody's equal and that anybody can go get a job to support their family. Yeah. And that there's access to medical care for somebody who has, you know, a disease. Also, divorce is OK. So if you need to get divorced from someone, you can and you can still hold your property. You can still have custody of your kids, all this stuff like that's what you really want. Like that's the bigger solution. Right. But you can't you can't start from having jack shit for rights to all of a sudden getting there. So it does kind of make sense to me that, yeah, in the context of that society, well, the solution is just get rid of the alcohol. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely makes sense that women led that charge. I remember watching the Ken Burns Prohibition documentary and he really talked a lot about, yeah, how men would spend all their money on alcohol, come home, beat their wives as well in a drunken stupor.

Yeah. And, yeah, of course you would think. And you couldn't leave. I mean I'm sure you could, but you leave and what are you going to do? Yeah. Do you have an education? If so, gosh, even if you had an education, you probably couldn't make much money. Well, and a lot of colleges didn't even let women in. Except for the normal institute, a totally normal place.

Nothing to see here, folks. This is just the normal institute. Or Oberlin College. Yeah. John Brown's Daddy's Daddy Lessons. Way ahead of Earlham. Everyone, Norm makes fun of the song Daddy Lessons. I just think it's a funny song title, Daddy Lessons.

It's a good song. I believe you. All right. Excellent second episode of an old-timey podcast. Oh, if we do say so ourselves. Pat ourselves on the back. What a fantastic episode that was. My God, we've really done it

this time think of all the great things we came up with in this episode particularly let's talk about pig butter and let's talk about how for 25 a month you can get pig butter delivered directly to your door through our patreon subscription what i love This month we have an excellent new pig butter flavor. It's new. We just invented pig butter. You can't have like new iterations of it yet. You're getting way ahead of it. We've got – we've partnered with Hidden Valley Ranch.

Gross. To make – We just take packets of the dry ranch and, yeah. Mix it in with the pig butter. OK. Mm. Put that on your pizza. I think I will.

Yeah. I think I will. We're at three hours, one minute. Wow. And you said this wasn't a meaty boy. This sure does feel meaty. I feel stuffed. OK.

I – when I first started – so I've looked into Carrie Nation before plenty of times because she just fascinates me. For whatever reason, she fascinates me. But there's just not a shit ton online and that made me think that there's not a shit ton, period. And so, yeah, I was like, oh, this is not going to be a meaty boy. But then I was like, wait, her autobiography is free? Okay. So then I read that. And then I read the other book.

And, you know, it just got meaty on me. You know, it chubbed up. What can we say? That's what we call sneaky meat. That's disgusting. Snuck right up on you. It sure did. Yeah. It sure did. If I want to learn more about something, I read a book about it. And man, you'll learn a lot. Wow. You could just listen to this intellectual podcast called An Old Timey Podcast. Yeah. Where our fans are called History Hoes. Yeah. And we play

sound clips of Hank Hill Bustin. Do we? I thought... And we come up with great new products like pig butter. I just burped while you were talking. And we burp on the mics. Very sorry. Sorry to Patty. Sorry to the History

Hoes. Patty's probably... Oh my gosh, a burp just... Patty's used to youty sorry to the history hoes patty's probably oh my gosh a burp just patty's used to you burping on the mic probably she probably doesn't like it kind of like you how you're used to me belching around the house but you're not like there she goes the most beautiful i famously compared you compared you to Homer Simpson because of your belching. Famously. Famously. Most people know about it. And, you know, you were right.

Yeah. Should we wrap this up? I think so. I'm getting hungry. I am too. All this talk of pig butter has got me craving some delicious food. I'm going to dunk my hot pocket in some pig butter. Well, Kristen, you know what they say about history hoes?

We always cite our sources. That's right, Normie C. For this episode, I got my info from the book Carry a Nation, Retelling the Life by Fran Grace, part of the book Smashing the Liquor Machine, A Global History of Prohibition by Mark Lawrence Schrod, and of course, The Use and Need of the Life of Carrie A. Nation, written by Carrie A. Nation. That's all for this episode.

Thank you for listening to an old-timey podcast. Please give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts. And until next time, toodaloo, ta-ta, and cheerio!