Let's Go To Court! - 38: The Affluenza Teen & the “CIA” Con Artist

Episode Date: October 17, 2018

Ethan Couch did a horrible thing. When he was 16 years old, he got drunk, loaded his friends in his truck, and drove recklessly down a dark, two-lane road. Not far from his house, Ethan lost control of his truck. He hit one vehicle, and then another, which hit another. Four people died. When police arrived, one deputy remarked that the stretch of road looked, “more like a plane crash than a car wreck.” The story made national headlines — for an unexpected reason. During Ethan’s sentencing, psychologist Dick Miller contended that Ethan grew up in an environment with no consequences. His family had money, and money meant that you made your own rules. In other words, Ethan was a victim of his own privilege. It was the affluenza defense, and it infuriated the nation. Then Brandi tells us about the con to beat all cons. In the post-9/11 world, the United States Navy Veterans Association prospered. They brought in millions upon millions of dollars in donations. The money couldn’t have gone to a better cause. People jumped at the chance to help the nation’s veterans. But in 2010, a reporter from the St. Petersburg Times looked into the organization. He was shocked by what he discovered. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “The worst parents ever,” by Michael J. Mooney, D Magazine “Ethan Couch, affluenza sufferer, has been sentenced to two years in jail,” Texas Monthly “Teen sentenced to 10 years probation, rehab in 4 deaths,” Star-Telegram “Ethan Couch, the affluenza teen, has disappeared with his mother and has possibly fled the country,” Texas Monthly “Teenager’s sentence in fatal drunken-driving case stirs affluenza debate,” New York Times “Ethan Couch,” Wikipedia “Affluenza mom Tonya Couch back in jail after authorities say she used meth,” Dallas News “Fred Couch, father of ‘affluenza teen,’ goes to trial,” Star-Telegram In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “The Strange, Spectacular Con of Bobby Charles Thompson” by Daniel Fromson, The Washingtonian “Mystery Man Bobby Thompson blames CIA for bogus charity” by John Martin, Tampa Bay Times “Money Stolen by Infamous Con Man ‘Bobby Thompson’ Finally Goes to Vets” by Matthew Mosk, ABC News “United States Navy Veterans Association” wikipedia.org

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts! I'm Kristen Pitts. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court! On this episode, I'll talk about the affluenza teen. And I'll be talking about a con so strange and spectacular,

it's like something straight from a movie. Pumped for yours. I'm really excited for yours. I know a little bit about it, but not much. Okay, your mind's going to be blown. I feel like... Well, I'm not even going to say it. Say it.

Is Domino's Pizza involved in your case? Yes, it is. Okay, because that was the first thing that like... You know what would have been hilarious if it wasn't in any way do you like domino's pizza that's all right i would never pick it no i would okay if i were like at somewhere and they got pizza and it was domino's. Well, sure, of course. 100% eat it. But if I'm getting pizza for myself, not even close to on the list. You know what I think? I think the only way Domino's stays in business

is because there's like an event. Somebody wants cheap pizza. They go to Domino's. I don't think anyone individually orders Domino's pizza. Prove me wrong, Internet. Reach out to us if that's your favorite pizza place maybe there's something we're missing there maybe they have a great i don't fill in the blank i just can't imagine that that's the case great sushi clearly not sponsored by domino's or little

caesars norman loves little caesars okay here's the deal. I love their crazy bread. Oh, well, sure. Sure. Their pizza's not great. No. That's the whole story. When I was gone this summer, before I left, I got a little card, wrote it to Norman, and then I filled it with gift cards to all of his favorite places.

And one of them was to Little Caesars. Last night, we both wanted pizza. And he's like, well, I've still got money on the Little Caesars gift card. I was like, absolutely not. That's not what I'm having. And he was trying to say that I was being wasteful and stuff. I was like, no, wait for when I'm out of the house. And that's all you.

Go crazy on Little Caesars. Eat your $4 pizza and you enjoy so brandy yeah i can't help but notice that you're topless right now don't get our listeners excited kristen i also realized i shouldn't have said that while i was taking a drink but here's the thing fresca everywhere it was like it was 1970 here's the thing i've got a solution to this problem oh my gosh finally i've been looking high and low we have gaming historian t-shirts on sale now for just ten dollars ten

dollars ten dollars we've got the classic logo and the retro style limited edition that has to be 84 off sure these shirts they're a hundred dollar value this is a vip discount that i'm telling you about that's available to everyone in the world. Everyone who visits thegaminghistorian.com. So head over there right now and get yourself a t-shirt today. Is that available in both the retro design and the classic design? I literally just said that. How dare you not pay attention?

How often are you tuning me out I don't think I'm ever tuning you out so then I'm genuinely concerned right now I did not hear that at all yeah head on over gaminghistorian.com get you some shirts get them in a five pack you know so you can wear them every day of the week. Yeah.

I have people say, oh, didn't you wear that yesterday? You'd be like, this is a different one. I think what you should do is you should get them in all of the sizes and then each day wear one. That's like the next size down. Let's get shrinking or you're getting bigger. down so it looks like it's shrinking or you're getting bigger is this your favorite idea you've ever come up with really my mouth just started saying words and my brain had to fill it as I went oh are you gonna tell them what website to go to oh uh yeah actually i already just said that kristin that's the gaming historian dot com this is one of those i thought i kind of knew this one did not yeah see that's why i feel

like i don't know very much about it so i'm really excited to get some get some deets. So, right off the top, shout outs to an article by Michael J. Mooney in D Magazine and an episode of 2020 about this case. Both of them very helpful.

D Magazine? I know. It doesn't sound... Is there just a giant dick on the cover? No, to to get around obscenity laws,

they've got to have like one dick and like 75% really great articles. Are you ready? I am. Okay. It's Saturday night, June 15th, 2013, the day before Father's Day in an upscale Texas neighborhood. Brianna Mitchell

is driving home from her job as a chef. She's on an unlit two lane road when her tire blows out. She veers off the road into the grass and hits a mailbox. She gets out of her car and she's a little shaken and pretty soon the homeowners come out of their house to help her eric and holly boils along with their adult daughter shelby who i think was 21 all come out and they just want to make sure that brianna's okay they're all standing in the driveway when all of a sudden a youth minister comes along his name is brian jennings and he has two middle school boys in his truck. They're all coming from a graduation party, and their truck is filled with like tables and chairs and stuff that they're just driving back to the church. Brian tells the boys, stay in your seats, stay buckled.

I'm going to just make sure everyone's OK. So now we've got five people all standing around. Brianna is on the phone with her mom. Eric, Holly, Shelby, and Brian are all talking and just kind of assessing the damage on Brianna's car. And Eric is like, well, you know, let me pick up our busted mailbox and take it back to the house. He picks it up, takes it to the garage. And when Eric is in the garage garage he heard this horrible sound tires screeching metal crunching cars crashing oh my gosh the impact was so big that it shook his house oh my gosh neighbors start

pouring out of their houses i really can't like I can't imagine how loud this was. But the articles I read said that from very far away, people could hear what had happened. Seven people called 911. It was pure chaos. One woman called 911 to report the accident and she started panicking and screaming. And the dispatcher asked her to stop screaming and said, how many cars are involved? And again, this is on an unlit road. Yeah. And the woman said, ma'am, I can't tell. It's dark.

There's kids laying in ditches. There's kids laying in the street. Oh, my gosh. I have chills. Another person called it in. And the operator said, OK, how many people are injured? And the caller starts looking around. He's like, one, two, three, multiple.

I don't even know how many. Oh, my gosh. Police arrived, and one deputy said that the area looked more like a plane crash than a car wreck. Wow. It was horrible. The wreck was spread out over about 300 feet. Wow. the wreck was spread out over about 300 feet wow it took a while to assess what had happened but authorities figured it out pretty quickly while eric was in his garage and brianna and brian and

holly and shelby were by the road a ford 350 pickup came barreling down the road it was driven by 16 year old ethan couch He was going more than 70 miles an hour. His blood alcohol was three times the legal limit, and he had traces of Valium and pot in his system. And I should say, it was three times the legal limit three hours later when he was taken to the hospital. And that's a big fucking truck. Yeah. I only know because i saw so many

pictures it's a giant truck yeah yeah he had five friends in the cab with him and two friends were laying down in the back of the truck oh my gosh he lost control of his vehicle rammed into brianna's which killed brian shelby Holly, and Brianna. From there, it hit Brian's pickup truck, where the two middle school boys were still buckled in their seats. It pushed that vehicle onto the road, where that one hit another vehicle, and then Ethan's vehicle flipped over and hit a tree. Oh my gosh. Amidst the chaos, Ethan pulled himself out of the wreckage and walked away. Lucas McConnell was one of the middle school boys who was in the youth minister's truck. He said that after the wreck, he saw Ethan and heard him say, I only had two beers

and I'm not going to get in trouble for this. Shauna Clark and her teenage son, Corbin lived nearby. And when they realized what was going on, they came out to help. And pretty quickly they came across Ethan. They said he was passed out, lying in a ditch, like a quarter mile away from the accident.

So Corbin got down and kind of tried to snap him out of it and said what's your name what's your name and he said the kid said what's your name what's your name and finally the kid goes hey man i'm ethan i can get you out of all this and corbin's like i'm not in i'm not in anything, I don't need you to get me out of anything. Yeah. Ethan apparently told him, just remember my name, I'll get you out of all this. What?

But Ethan, of course, was taken to the hospital, and soon police were able to piece together what happened that night. Apparently, Ethan and his friend Garrett decided to throw a party at Ethan's place. Their friend Avery came over. They all did shots. They had dinner. They did some more shots. They all got into Ethan's truck to pick up some more friends.

They drove by a freshly mowed soccer field and stopped to do donuts. Jerks. Yeah. On the way back home, they decided, hey, hey we need some beer but none of us are 21 so we need to steal the beer they go to walmart grab three cases of miller light and just walked out a side entrance with it i'm amazed it's that easy to steal something super i mean yeah people walk out like put stuff in their cart something that might not be bagged and they'll if you walk with authority like have you ever done this no no but i used to have salons that were inside of walmart

oh people would walk out and it would be And people would walk out and it would be half an hour later that store security would realize that that person had not paid for anything and had come up to see if anybody had seen anything. How was that half an hour later? You didn't question anything. I did not. Okay. So they went back to Ethan's house, which, which by the way sounds like an awesome place his house was 4 000 square feet it had a pool a barn a playground a workshop this huge wet bar and no parents ethan's parents fred and tanya lived most of the time in their much bigger, nicer place in Fort Worth.

Don't worry, though. Fred would stop by Ethan's place a few times a week to check in. Excellent. A 16-year-old has basically his own home. Essentially, yeah. Yeah. So I saw a couple different explanations for this. yeah yeah so i saw a couple different explanations for this one explanation i saw was that they were going to sell that place and it was ethan's job to get it ready to go on the market which that sounds like total bullshit to me for a 16 year old boy yeah okay so all the kids are back at Ethan's house. They drank more beer, took more shots, set off some fireworks. Okay.

And that's when one girl at the party, I think she was the only girl at the party, her name was Star, decided she wanted to leave. She realized her period was starting and she didn't have any tampons. So she called two cab companies, but neither of them sent someone to pick her up. Ethan helped her search his house for a tampon, but they couldn't find one. So he took a shot of Everclear and said, I'll drive you to the gas station. Okay. I do want to say one quick thing about this tampon business. The 2020 episode just kept talking about how they left because, like, a female at the party needed to go to a convenience store. Like, they said that multiple times.

And I thought, what a weird, like, what the hell? And then, you know, in the D Magazine article, they just said tampon it's like well just say that yeah i don't know why they didn't say it because it just sounds weird it does sound weird the lone female insisted we go to the convenience store so ethan does his shot of everclear y And says, I'll drive you to the gas station. But here's the thing. I'm not leaving anyone alone in my house. So we all have to go together. On the way to his truck,

he picked up a box fan and smashed it on the ground. What? Just to be a badass. Just like to Hulk smash? Yeah, just to be cool. Don't you know anything about being cool, Brandi? Clearly not. I bet you've never smashed a box fan.

I never have. So Star was hesitant to get in, but she says that Ethan's friend Garrett was like, I've seen him drive like this a bunch. It'll be fine. They all get into the truck. Two kids in the bed of the truck, six in the front. None of them wearing seatbelts.

Ethan pulls out of his house and he's immediately going 70. 70 miles an hour. Yep. Wow. Star tells him to slow down, but he just laughs. He starts driving into oncoming traffic. Star yells at him again. They were less than a quarter mile from Ethan's house

when Ethan hit Brianna's car, which hit the four people, then hit Brian's car, then landed against a tree. Ethan never hit the brakes. Oh, my gosh. So, obviously, that's a terrible story. Ethan eventually pled guilty to four counts of intoxication manslaughter. But car accidents happen every day, and people die in them every day, and there was no trial in this case, but it still became national news.

Everyone was talking about it, and it was all because of what happened at Ethan's sentencing. By the way, have you ever had anyone try to drive you drunk somewhere? Not that I can think of. I'm really responsible about that kind of thing. Yeah. Like, always have been. Yeah. Yeah. Like, always have been. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I've always been just taking that very seriously. Yeah. What about you? When I was researching this, I thought about this one time, and this is like the cringiest story ever. It was when I worked at a summer camp

and we were all at a bar and we had designated drivers because everybody wanted to go out and so like it was no problem to have a designated driver. Well, this one girl, she'd been drinking all night. It was her car.

And at the last minute, we're all going to leave and she's like stumbling around. She's like, no, I'm good to drive. I'm good to drive. Meanwhile, we're all going to leave. And she's like stumbling around. She's like, no, I'm good to drive. I'm good to drive. Meanwhile, we have a designated driver right there who's been drinking Coke all night. Yeah.

And we were all like, no, no, no, no. And I remember I said, I was like, I said something like, I'm not going. I'm not going. And then I said, I'm not going. I'm not going. And then I said, I'm too important. Which sounds a little high and mighty in the moment, but it's true. Everybody's too important to get in the car with a drunk driver. Yeah, but I didn't say we're all too important. I said, I'm too important.

Just a reminder, I had accomplished nothing in my life. So, um, that's why I'm here today. So Ethan had the best defense money could buy. His defense attorneys dug into Ethan's home life, had him evaluated by a well-known psychologist, and discovered that Ethan hadn't had a normal childhood. He'd been surrounded by wealth and privilege and no consequences. Yeah.

Ever. Yeah. And before the judge handed down Ethan's sentence, they decided she needed to hear about that. That tragic tale. Ugh. So let's talk about Ethan's childhood. Let's. Are you ready?

Yes. Ethan's parents, Fred and Tanya, married in 1996, and they divorced in 2006. They remarried each other in 2011. Wow. Mm-hmm. In 2011. Wow. Mm-hmm.

The first time they divorced in 2006, the court ordered that a social worker visit Fred, Tanya, and Ethan and talk to them. That social worker's report is nine pages long. Fred said that his marriage to Tanya had been a mistake from the start he accused tanya of having a pill problem and he'd said that she'd given ethan vicodin on more than one occasion what by the way he was nine at this point oh my gosh he said that she referred to ethan as her protector and that he slept in her bedroom in a separate bed still Still weird, but I should say separate bed. Still weird. Tanya told the social worker that Fred was abusive.

She said he'd thrown her in a fireplace and that he'd been violent with her daughter from her first marriage. The social worker talked to Ethan and found him polite. He said his parents yelled a lot, and he said he wished they wouldn't put him in the middle. Wow. I know. Yeah. The social worker walked away with a really bad impression of this family.

The social worker's chief concerns were, quote, the codependent relationship Ethan has with his mother and the father's lack of a regular and consistent relationship with Ethan. The report stated, both parents

have adultified Ethan and have allowed him to become overly involved in adult issues and decisions. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Worth noting, the police were no strangers to this family. They would get called out to the couches. And generally, what they do when they got there is they say, Okay, Fred, you know, you calm down, you leave the house for a while and that was it yeah so ethan was raised in a very dysfunctional environment and it wasn't just the court system that took notice around 2006 tanya enrolled ethan in a private school called the anderson school the school's co-founder lavonna anderson said that fred and tanya would get into screaming matches in the school's parking lot. She said Tanya, quote, loved the boy so much that she couldn't say no to him. If you're raising young men, you've got to learn to say no. She said that Fred needed counseling, but he probably would have thought he was smarter than the counselor anyway.

needed counseling, but he probably would have thought he was smarter than the counselor anyway. So my assessment, Tanya's a doormat who like loves too much disciplines never and Fred's an asshole. That's just my impression. Yeah. One day when Ethan was just 13, LaVonna noticed that Ethan had driven himself to school. Oh my gosh. Oh, my gosh. So the two argued back and forth. And at some point, Fred said something like, I'll buy the school. I'll buy the school? Yeah.

He's rich, Brandy. That's all that matters. Yeah, that's clearly the answer. So ultimately, Fred got annoyed enough that he pulled Ethan out of that school, put him in another, and then like a year later, pulled him out of that school, put him in another, and then like a year later pulled him out of that one. So at the sentencing, psychologist Dick Miller testified for the defense. He said that based on his assessment of Ethan, Ethan grew up in an environment where he could do whatever he wanted to do with no consequences. There were no rules. They had money, and money meant you made your own rules. Dr. Miller made a case for treatment rather than imprisonment.

And then he said the unforgettable line. He said that Ethan suffered from affluenza. Yeah. In other words, he's unable to understand the consequences of his actions because he's been surrounded by so much wealth. Yeah. And he's never had a consequence. What's your reaction to that?

I imagine there's some truth to it. That he has never known that there are consequences for his actions because he's never been disciplined. But that you have to start somewhere, so why not now when he killed four people driving drunk at 16 years old? Yeah. And I should mention, killed four people, and one of the kids was i think is now paralyzed yeah so people were stunned by that testimony the prosecutor actually smiled when he heard it

he thought it was so ridiculous this notion that affluenza yeah had got the best of ethan brian's daughter was in the court that day and when she heard that she looked at her mom like, what? Is that a made up word? Eric Boyle, who lost his daughter

and wife, essentially said, I know he had terrible parents, but affluenza as an excuse just blew my mind.

Meanwhile, the prosecutor, much like yourself, was having none of it yeah it was like yeah i get that this kid has never faced a consequence how about now yeah exactly how about now so there's a first time for everything so he told the judge i want 20 years for this kid yeah but judge gene boyd sentenced ethan to 10 years of probation 20 years for this kid. Yeah. But Judge Jean Boyd sentenced Ethan to 10 years of probation.

That's fucking bullshit. And time in a very nice rehab facility. In the courtroom, the victim's families were shocked. Yeah. Almost as soon as she was done handing down the sentence,

bailiffs escorted the judge out of the courtroom. She didn't discuss the order, didn't explain it, just gave it and left. Wow. People were so angry. Yeah, and that shows to me that she's ashamed of the sentence that she handed down. If you're going to hand it down, then immediately leave. Yeah. I mean, that's what that looks like to me.

Oh, for sure. For sure. We'll get into some of the logic in a minute here, but yeah, you're there with victims' families. You need to explain yourself. This was on every news show. I don't know if you remember. Oh, yeah. It was everywhere.

People were talking about this sentencing. They were like, money buys you everything. This kid got away with murder. Yeah. People started digging through the judge's previous sentences. And they found that in 2004, a poor 16-year-old got drunk, killed one person with his car, and Judge Boyd sentenced that boy to 20 years in prison. Wow! She told him, the court is aware that you had a sad childhood. I hope you will take advantage of the services offered by the Texas Youth Commission and turn your life around. Holy shit!

But the New York Times reported that criminal defense attorneys weren't super surprised by this verdict. They said that this is part of a nationwide trend, even in Texas, for minors who are in serious drunk driving cases to get probation instead of jail time because it's viewed as a better way to rehab the kid. Interesting. So I will say one thing. That story about the 2004 boy,

that's bad. But to me 2004 boy, that's bad. But to me, like, that was 2004. The Ethan Couch thing is 2013. I think it's totally possible that this judge, kind of her thinking changed along with the nation's thinking. Absolutely. I can 100% see that. So I saw that part.

I also saw somewhere else that, that like this judge kind of had a history of leaning more toward probation rather than jail time um but holy crap four people yeah i yeah that's unacceptable that's a i'm just thinking about that if that was one of my family members were one of the That's unacceptable. I'm just thinking about that if that was one of my family members were one of the people that had died. What an injustice I would see that as. Yeah. I also, I don't know.

I think this is a tough one. So let me read you a quote from one of Ethan's attorneys, Michael Yanoff. Very infrequently does a nonviolent, non-intentional crime land a juvenile in jail. Not to say this isn't serious. It's very serious. But it wasn't violent or intentional, and the preference of the state is not to send juveniles to jail. I mean, I think that's valid. See, I think I can totally get behind that. Yeah.

I think my assessment is more colored by what happened later in this case. Yeah. Because when I first started reading about his childhood, I was like like holy crap i feel sorry for ethan couch yeah which i did not expect to happen because i all i remembered was this affluenza thing same yeah i didn't know about the childhood yeah but at the same time do other kids with bad childhoods get that kind of leniency? Yeah.

If they do, great. Mm-hmm. If not, fuck all that. Worth noting, Judge Boyd did not run for re-election. Really? She would have gotten her ass handed to her. Are you kidding me? You think?

Yes! She was like the most hated judge when she did that. Would you have voted for her? No. Well, yeah, no one would have. No, absolutely not. Hmm. Does that seriously surprise you?

It does surprise me that she didn't run. It wouldn't have surprised me if she wasn't reelected. Yeah. But the fact that she didn't even run for reelection is surprising. I don't when when i think about like how big that story was and yeah it was huge yeah i think i'd be like well time for me to read some books stay at home a while yeah so the sentencing just took place and at this point there are seven civil suits in the works. And since the truck Ethan was driving was technically owned by the family business,

Clayburn Sheet Metal, which, by the way, has the worst reviews online. Oh, did you look it up? Oh, yeah. Because people were like, people were giving it one star reviews and be like, he killed people. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That makes sense so people sued ethan tanya and fred and claiborne sheet metal all but one of these lawsuits were settled and those settlements are sealed so can't tell you the one thing that 2020 said was that they settled these suits without admitting any guilt. So that just left the McConnells.

Lucas McConnell was one of the middle school boys who was in Brian Jennings' truck that night. And his family was like, you know what? We don't like this one bit. There's been no justice here. The couches have admitted no wrongdoing. Let's go to court. So in 2014, the couches were deposed for the McConnell lawsuit. They showed part of the depositions on 2020, and the footage was ridiculous.

and the footage was ridiculous. Through those depositions, the world learned that four months before the crash, Ethan was stopped by police at 1 a.m. He was drunk in a parking lot, peeing. Four months before this happened? Yes. Okay. And there was a half-naked teenage girl there with him. Which half?

Okay, one thing I saw said fully naked, the other said half. I was trying to give her like a scrap of denim, I don't know. So when the officers started talking to him, Ethan started cursing. His mom, Tanya, arrived on the scene and never bothered asking her son where he got the alcohol. Wow. Later, I mean, the footage of this deposition, this mom is just like, she's trying to have it every way she can of like, oh, I didn't know. Yeah. Oh, but what about when you were called

out at 1 a.m he was drunk oh well yeah i guess i i could have asked about where he got the alcohol truth is i didn't give a shit yeah or truth is it came from me i knew about yeah of course yeah so tanya arrives on the scene later tanya and ethan go home tanya told her husband fred oh he just got caught peeing by the dollar general it's no big deal so she lies to her oh wow yes like this he was going to be a really strict disciplinary exactly i mean out about it stupid clearly not yep in his deposition fred said oh yeah i punished ethan for that i made him walk to and from work for a month but during his deposition ethan was like no i don't remember having to walk to work yeah i think he'd remember that see i think fred got embarrassed at a certain point because even at one point in this deposition you know this is after the whole affluenza thing hit the news and he was like i don't even know

that i believe in affluenza i think he was kind of embarrassed yeah well he should have been tanya didn't seem embarrassed though well let me say fred seemed embarrassed about all the stuff from the outside. Yeah. You know? And Tanya, I think, was more like looking internally. Yeah. Not too hard, mind you, but you know, whatever.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So obviously, since the police officer was called out to that, Ethan did have to face some consequences. Yeah. So obviously, since the police officer was called out to that, Ethan did have to face some consequences. Yeah. He had to do community service and complete an alcohol awareness course within 90 days. That was what he was ordered to do. How terrible that must have been for him. Well, he didn't do it. Did you think he did it?

No. Well, the police told him to do it, so I assume that means you do it. I saw somewhere, and I should have written this down, that Tanya said something like, oh, I messed up the paperwork. My fault. You know, the bottom line is. He didn't do it. He didn't do it.

Excellent. And his parent helped him not do it. In the deposition, Tanya tried to minimize what she knew about ethan's drinking she said oh i didn't know he drank but star teague one of ethan's friends the one who did the tampon that night was like oh yeah she for sure saw us drinking and ethan's half sister tanya one week before the crash said hey I'm worried that he's drinking in that house. So Star is like, Star has basically said,

yeah, Tanya knew we were drinking. Yeah, of course Tanya knew they were drinking. Tanya was probably providing them with alcohol. And Fred knew too. Yeah. At one point in the magazine, in the magazine, in the article in d magazine there was something where like tanya said like fred doesn't fred doesn't look after ethan or

doesn't supervise ethan properly and fred's response was i'm not a mom wow yeah yeah great see the centerfold in d magazine oh gross have you seen this guy you do not want to see sounds like a big d to me yes oh he's gross is he gross looking, he's gross and gross looking. Yeah, look that dude up. Nah, I've got to look him up. Well, actually, whoa, don't. Why? Because there's stuff about him.

I'll just look at images. Okay, okay, just images. What's his name? Fred Couch. Fred Couch. That was so close. Turd Ferguson. Oh.

Right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That haircut is... You know what that is to me? That is, I've gotten this haircut for the last 45 years. Yeah. And I'm not changing it.

As my face changes, I'm not changing it as my face changes i'm not changing a thing yeah it's not good can you describe it because i can't uh it's actually it looks to me that it's a flat top that he's not always styling as a flat top few people know this about a flat top a lot of styling goes into stuff. You have to blow dry that shit up. Yeah. So like in his driver's license picture here that I'm looking at, it looks like he did not style it that day. But this picture in court, he definitely has it has it up. Fixed up a little bit. Yeah. Hmm. All right, I'm gonna close that before I... Okay, I gotta say... See anything. I do not

understand these parents who are like, oh, come on over, kids, have whatever you want to drink, just because that was so not my reality. Yeah, no, not mine either. Yeah. Yeah. Can you imagine? What would your parents have done? I don't even know. It's weird because my parents didn't even really drink when I was a kid or a teenager. My parents, so my whole time growing up, I saw my mom drink one glass of wine one time. And it wasn't until much later in life life like now yeah drink yeah and my dad has discovered that he's a big fan of mike's hard lemonade really hits that mike's hard lemonade real hard it's like him and the 19 year old girls buying the mike's hard lemonade yeah no my my none of my you know i've got a whole bunch of parents yeah none of them really ever drank when i was a kid they all drink

excessively now what do you think about though like they do drink regularly now i don't know maybe when you're dealing with fucking kids like you just have to keep your head on straight. I would think you'd want to drink. I don't know. I don't know what to make of any of that. I don't know. Parents weigh in on this for us. Yeah, yeah, that's a good idea.

Did I ever tell you? So my dad, you know, is only recently getting into alcohol. Experimenting. He's in an experimental phase. Experimenting with alcohol. Well, I would say that Mike's Heart Lemonade is kind of a gateway alcohol. It for sure is. 100%.

For sure. That is a gateway drink. But what my parents love is they love the pre-made margaritas from Costco oh yeah which I gotta say quite good yeah so I knew that they they drank those but one time I was over at my dad's house or my parents house they just split up I hate to tell you this is news to everyone including them including them including my sister kyla i'm sorry you had to find out this way no but he was like oh have you ever had a peach margarita and i was like no but you know i kind of thought it sounded good and he's like oh it's bad and just knowing you know my dad yeah his idea of cooking

is to pour the cheerios in the bowl and add the milk yeah so i was like what where did you have a peach margarita turns out they had a can of peach juice in the fridge he poured that out and added tequila and called that a peach margarita. No, that was not a peach margarita! And decided that peach margaritas are gross. Okay. Daryl, I'm speaking right to you right now. What you have described

as a peach margarita does in fact sound disgusting. Yes. That's a good point. We are on your side. That sounds nasty. That nasty that is in no way though a peach margarita so what gateway alcohols did your parents get involved in they have some boone's Farm. Oh. No, I mean, my mom and Steve drink wine. They go to, like, wineries and shit. Yeah.

They have, like, a wine cellar in their home now. What? They went from nothing to. Yeah, I mean, they've always had a bar in their home. Yeah, okay. But they were not drinkers. Yeah. Like, at least in front of us kids.

Yeah. Now it's just, whoo, whoo, popping bottles left and right. Popping bottles, popping boxes. And then my, oh, they would never drink boxed wine. I realized after I said that, it sounds disgusting to say popping boxes. That was a boxed wine joke that turned into something really gross. Something way worse. And then my dad, so Lisa doesn't really drink right um she'll have like i say that like i've tried to get her to

drink she'll have wine occasionally with friends or whatever but she um my dad drinks um like crown and coke yeah this drink classic i respect that yeah all right now that we've gone through like Crown and Coke. Yeah. That's his drink. Classic. Mm-hmm. I respect that. Yeah. All right, now that we've gone through what our parents drink. That's correct. Wait, we didn't get your mom's drink of choice in there.

My mom, like, will... Oh, you know what she loves? Moscow mules. Oh, yeah. You know what she doesn't like? What? Lion and Kugel summer champagne. Oh, my God. Pe know what she doesn't like? What? Lying in Google Summer Shandy.

Oh, my God. Peanut, what is happening? Oh, my God. She's not even looking out the... She's not even looking out the... Peanut, quit it. So, the Summer Shandy, for those who don't know. Which, if you haven't tried it, it's delicious. You don't like beer, Kristen. I don't like beer, so those who don't know. Which, if you haven't tried it, it's delicious. You don't like beer, Kristen.

I don't like beer, so I don't try it. But it's like, so it's like, correct me, like half beer, half lemonade? Yeah. Right? Okay. So my mom also doesn't like beer, but I think Norman brought them over or something, and she was like, oh, okay, you know, lemonade and beer. She's like, so she gets one out of the cooler

takes one sip looks like she's going to projectile vomit and she goes oh it's gone bad it's gone bad so norm had to be the hero that day and drink the rest of my mom's wine and kugel what's it called summer shandy wine and kugel what's it called other fun drinking stories with the family one time i think it was for my brother-in-law jay's birthday yeah jay likes whiskeys he likes manhattans and so i decided like i was gonna do manhattans for everybody yeah but as you know i'm terrible at math and i was just trying to like eyeball some fractions yeah what i ended up creating was essentially a big sized whiskey it was terrible it was like it was huge oh no and norman walked around

for like an hour just like sipping this huge thing looking like he hated his life until finally i was like you need to stop you're not you're not gonna hurt my feelings well because he'd be like fall down drunk if he drank half of the thing. Anyway. Okay, so the parents for sure knew that this kid was drinking. For sure. So this civil case is gearing up for court. The McConnells were like, we want justice.

Here we go. But then in October of of 2015 they settled the mcconnells basically said and i love this logic this they were on 2020 and they said hey 2020 you guys came did a story about our lawsuit we appreciate you guys you showed the couches for who they are by showing those deposition tapes that were prepared for our lawsuit. So we're good. We feel like we got the justice that we wanted. That's what we wanted, yeah. Months later, a young woman named Hannah Hardy was doing some soul searching. She'd just been watching interviews with the victim's families. I didn't say she was watching 2020, but I like to think she was watching 2020.

And she thought, you know what? Two months ago, I was on Twitter and I saw a video. Do you know this part of the story? No, I don't think so. It was taken at a party where a bunch of kids were playing beer pong. They were all drinking and having a good time and in the background, there was Ethan Couch.

And you know what? That was a violation of his probation. I was going to say, I'm sure he's not supposed to be doing that under his probation. When she first saw that video back in October, she saved it. Because she kind of knew, like, this is not good. And for two months, she just sat on it.

But then in December. A little egg. She kept it warm. She was like, Horton, here's a who. That's exactly what I was picturing. Oh, my gosh! Like Horton, here's a who. That's exactly what I was picturing. Oh my gosh!

So then in December, after watching those interviews with the victim's families, she shared the video on Twitter. She tweeted, Ya boy Ethan Couch violating probation. I got more if you want. At City of Burleson. At Tarrant County DA. Oh my gosh. boy ethan couch wow

so people were like interesting they started sharing the video saving the video investigators immediately started looking into it because if he was found to be in violation of his probation he could get a maximum of 10 years in prison wow that seems wrong oh well let's not question me that's right i feel like he'd have to first be bumped up into adult court and then maybe his max could be 10 years hi i feel like if you're sentenced to probation, 10 years of probation, you're violated. You violate that probation. You then serve out the remaining part of your probation in jail.

Yeah, maybe. I have no facts to back that up. Just a lot of confidence. Just for reference. Eight days later, after the video was posted to twitter ethan was due to check in with his probation officer oh was he but he didn't oh shit so police start looking for ethan but he's nowhere and neither his is his mom. Were they on vacation? Sure. So police issued warrants for both of their arrests,

and they held this press conference. They were so mad. The FBI got involved. This made national news. Everyone wanted to find them. U.S. Marshals offered $5,000 to anyone who could give information leading to Ethan Couch. Holy shit.

Yeah. Ethan and Tanya were missing for three weeks. They were long gone. They were in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, in an $80 a month apartment, which did not, I mean, mean sounds bad looked bad from the outside 2020 head footage yeah because at first when they was like they went to puerto vallarta like that's like a resort so that's the only thing i've ever heard is that they were in puerto vallarta so i

just assumed they were like at a resort they're not an 80 80 a month apartment? Yeah. Ooh! Not good. Not good at all. By the way, Ethan, so Ethan normally has like kind of strawberry blonde hair and like a red mustache. He had dyed it. Okay, I'm sorry. You just gestured at your chin when you said mustache. Are you aware that a mustache goes on the lip or were you meaning beard? I meant beard. Said mustache. Are you aware that a mustache goes on the lip? Or were you meaning beard?

I meant beard. Said mustache. Pointed to where I grow my facial hair. I like to have a few stray hairs pointing out my neck every now and then. Did I ever tell you about the first time I found a stray hair growing out of my neck? No. Oh, my God.

Well, first of all, when I was like 26, I went to this new hairstylist. Yeah. And, you know, I can't remember what we were talking about, but she was like, oh, my gosh, you know, getting older is so weird. But she was like, oh, my gosh, you know, getting older is so weird. She's giving me and telling me this in a tone like you and I are in the same boat. And she talks about like getting like a weird stray neck hair. And I was like, oh, my God, what the fuck? Ew.

You know nothing about me. This is so gross. Don't tell me about your nasty problems. She spotted your neck hair, Kristen neck i'm sure i'm sure but in that moment i was like ew ew ew don't tell me about your life sure enough months later i'm looking in the mirror and i noticed that like a hair has fallen onto my neck. So I like brush it off. Keep brushing it off. Keep brushing it off.

Realized my horror that it's attached. And I don't think I've ever had a more intense conversation with Norman or my sister of like, you two are the people who are in charge of my neck and if you see a hair come in like i'm holding you personally responsible i was horrified anyway got any neck hairs over there brie no are you don't i'm neck hair free shut up yeah i'm gonna glue some i'm gonna get a a piece and just glue it to your chin how dare you make me feel alone I'm going to glue some, I'm going to get a piece and just glue it to your chin. How dare you make me feel alone?

So Ethan had dyed his hair black. Looked terrible. Did he keep the red mustache? No, he dyed that too. I mean, seriously, it looked, do you want to look it up right now? Yeah. What's his name, Jeff? Oh, it's so bad.

Yeah, it's like... I think sometimes you can do things to your appearance that like... Well, now you stand out even more, you weirdo. Yeah, it's not good. Okay, I've got a question for you. If you were to go undercover, what would you do to disguise yourself? I don't know. Are you kidding me? I've never thought about this think about it now i don't probably wear a lot of hats okay you wouldn't like get rid of the blue in your hair

i feel like if if there were are you wait what i'd have to but i'm very attached to the blue in my hair i got it i've got news for you. You'd be caught in five minutes because you're like, they'd release a description, woman with blue hair. You're like, oh, okay. Yeah, no, I'd cover up the blue and I'd probably wear a lot of hats. Mm-hmm. All right.

All right. What would you do? Jet black. Oh, God. Carmen Sandiego style. I'd look like Ethan Couch if i did the jet black hair wouldn't be good i feel like i'd go really short with my hair i don't know that'd be the right choice for you no it would look terrible but in the moment it's not about like what looks good

it's like how different can i make myself look also I think I'd do the fake pregnant belly. Ooh, nice. I think that would be like different enough. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But then the other thing is like, I mean, police would be like, there's a woman who's 5'9 and she's missing. And I think that'd be it for me. She's with a woman who has blue hair and is so attached to it that she's not going to touch it.

To tuck it up in the hat. If I cover this up, I'm never getting it back. Yeah, but you committed a crime. So, like, you know. Look, we're in an $80 hotel. So what do you want? See, I'd have a really hard time because you'd be like let me just color with box color and be like well you do it for me right yeah but we can't go to the we can't go to the supply store and get

real color because then i'll have they'll will be spotted these are gonna use like walmart color i'd be totally cool with that. I'm sure you would. You classless hoe. I'm not the least bit interested in that. Don't care at all about what you're okay with. So Ethan and Tanya, they're hiding out in Mexico. And you remembered how they got caught yeah they used one of their cell phones to order a pizza from dominoes let's have a moment this is the this is the part in the podcast where we tell people how to commit

crimes that's right get this these two dum-dums they ditched their passports they ditched their id cards they they ditched anything that would id them yeah they changed their hair did not ditch their cell phones or get a fucking burner phone exactly how easy is that i and also you're in Mexico why are you ordering a pizza you should be eating guacamole I don't think I can tell you how to live your life is that the point you're trying to make listen I was upset with this on so many levels and one of them yes was why are you eating dominoes when you could have fish tacos

or like you know just anything delicious the world is your oyster and you're eating dominoes anyway they waited for their stupid pizza but officers showed up instead yeah do you think the officers brought the pizza they're like good, got a delivery from Domino's. And they open up and it's just a gun's bone. Hungry for justice. Got the police officers eating their pizza.

That would make me so angry. Okay, if Norman was ever convicted of a crime, that would, he would flip. He would flip. So officers brought Tanya back to the U.S. immediately, where she was charged with hindering apprehension of a felon.

Yeah. She faces two to ten years in prison. She posted bail a few weeks later. Meanwhile, Ethan was able to delay his deportation by saying that mexican authorities had violated his human rights oh my gosh so u.s authorities i have to assume were pissed yeah because that meant that ethan could stay in mexico for potentially a really long time while this trial happened. But eventually, I guess Ethan decided that being in jail in Mexico is not that great.

That sounds fucking horrible. So he was like... Being in jail in the United States doesn't sound great. Yeah, I think jail anywhere sounds awful. Yeah. I bet he thought... I mean, what was he thinking? I don't know. Well, he's never faced consequences before.

So maybe he thought, delay, delay, delay. Oops, this sucks too. They don't have dominoes in here. Yeah. I don't know. So he was like, never mind that stuff about my human rights. You can deport me. So Ethan came back to Texas.

And this time he was in adult court. and this time he was in adult court judge wayne salvant had been salivating for this moment oh my gosh he said you're not getting out of jail today sorry this is really serious i should like i mean why is he doing an oprah voice you're not getting out of jail today so then i know how you love poetic justice yeah he sentenced ethan to four consecutive sentences of 180 days one for each of the four people he killed in 2013 excellent he also told ethan when you get out of here in two years i don't want you drinking, using drugs, or driving. No driving? That's right. Dude's been driving since he was 13?

He's the best driver right now! I will buy this school! I will buy this prison! Where are they now? Ethan Couch is free. He was released on April 2nd, 2018. Oh. He was released about a week before his 21st birthday.

The Tarrant County Sheriff said that Ethan is a changed man. Is he? I mean, here's what he said. Okay. He goes, I do believe Ethan Couch is not the same person he was when he came to jail the time he spent it's a rude awakening for anyone i imagine that's true see i like from what the social worker said when he was nine that ethan was a patient good kid yeah who was in a bad yeah i do wonder if maybe i don't know no maybe maybe tanya couch's trial is scheduled for november oh yes yes what her trial why do you do this to us kristin you do these cases that are

almost done i had no idea i was like because i kept looking and being like huh so she could face two to ten years well what did she face oh she hasn't gone to trial yet hasn't gone to trial yet but she has continued to make headlines oh why in august of this year, she failed her third drug test. Ooh. The latest one tested positive for meth. What? Mm-hmm. Holy shit. She also got in trouble for other things, like drinking at a bar. And I think she was holding a gun at a gun show at one point, which, you know, she must have.

Those are things I feel like could just happen. You don't just get. Oopsies. Yeah, oops oopsie i smoked some meth her attorneys for what it's worth were like oh no this is all wrong um you know it's false positive blah blah blah wow would you like to hear about fred couch yeah i've been wondering what was he doing when they were hiding out in Mexico? Apparently, in 2014, officers were responding to a disturbance call. And Fred was there. He told the cops, hey, I'm a Lakeside police officer, showed them a badge, and they let him go.

He's not a police officer. You're damn right, Brandy. But a little while later, one of those officers was like, you know, I used to work in Lakeside and I do not remember that guy. So he called up the Lakeside police chief. You don't think they could have hired a new police officer since you worked there, sir? We're all lucky that he followed up on this so he called up the lakeside police chief and that guy was like i assume guy was like yeah i don't know that guy a while later they arrested fred couch for impersonating a police officer He paid his bail and walked away. Then, in 2016,

he was brought to trial and found guilty. He got a year of probation. Wow. So I want to end with a quote from Shauna Jennings is the wife of Brian Jennings, who was the youth minister who was killed. She said,

it's a daily decision to forgive i can't live my life bitter or angry oh i mean i think that's such an important thing to decide like a such an important decision to make but i think it would be so fucking hard yeah i i was all over the place yeah Yeah. Looking at this one. So when I learned more about his background. Yeah. It's like, oh, he did have shitty parents and he had a shitty childhood. I honestly did feel sorry for him.

And then when I learned more about like, this sentencing was kind of more of a nationwide trend. I kind of wanted to hear more about that just to make sure that that's true. But it did kind of see some charts on that. I would like to see a bar graph. Yeah. But then the Mexico thing, like he did that with his mom when he was 18. Yeah.

I feel like after all of that, he should know that his parents are fucked up. Yeah. By the way, his parents have been in trouble with the law in a bunch of other cases i just didn't mention yeah at one point they're real winners is that what you're saying at one point tanya um this was i think after the accident uh used her car to drive someone off the road excellent yeah excellent she's cool wow yeah there was a lot to that that i didn't know about i didn't know any of the stuff about his childhood i figured you were super and i thought that they went i said i figured you were super ignorant you just went right on by and then the

mexico thing like i said i thought they were there like at a resort I didn't know they were like hiding out at a shady motel or apartment or whatever I had no clue this place did not look nice let me tell you ugh do you need a pee break I think I'm actually pretty fabulous

and like smarter than I've ever been and like really cute cute Fabulous and smarter than I've ever been. And really cute. What are you looking at over there? What? None of your concern. Wow. No, I was looking at my email.

There was an email from the Kansas City Public Library that's like, your hold is automatically borrowed. And I was hoping it was going to be something cool, but it's not. What is it? It's the Jen Sincero book. You are a badass. I don't know.

Yeah. Okay. It's supposed to help me with my self-esteem. Tell me I am very important. Excellent. I'm too important for this. God, I'm so dumbass.

All right, are you ready to hear about a con? Oh, every day I'm ready. I feel as if I inhabited your body to do this case. How'd it feel in there? Tight. You have a lot of extra ear room. I feel like this case is just right up your alley. I'm so excited. And I hope you haven't heard of it. Okay. Okay. So I was about to say i don't think i have now i've never heard of that what is that what is the con okay um i pulled the majority of this information read all of it this amazing article from the washingtonian okay by daniel fromson okay This amazing article from The Washingtonian by Daniel Frommsen. Okay. Celia Moore didn't care what her boarders did as long as they paid their rent on time.

The 67-year-old... What? Do you know the case? I think I do. Oh, no! Is this the one where she kills people? No. Oh.

Nope. Oh, okay. The 67-year-old former paralegal owned a large Victorian home in a blue-collar neighborhood of Portland, Oregon, and she'd rented rooms to lots of different people over the years. What year was this? I haven't gotten there yet, ma'am. I'm so excited. She found that her renters typically strayed from convention.

They live a different life, she was once quoted as saying. But she had no idea how true she would find that to be when she received an email in February of 2012 from a man looking to rent one of her rooms. February of 2012 from a man looking to rent one of her rooms. In the email, Don Morissette described himself as a friendly former police officer with no criminal record who was relocating to Oregon and from New Mexico. When Celia met with him for an in-person interview, she found him pleasant and chatty. In fact, with the exception of his hair, which he poofed up in an odd sort of pompadour and dyed unnaturally dark, she found him generally unremarkable. And so Don moved into one of her rooms. Don was a well-mannered tenant. He had great stories. Don was a well-mannered tenant.

He had great stories. He'd lived all over. He was part Chippewa. He'd been through a nasty divorce. And he used to be a world-class dancer before injuring his knee kickboxing. No, no, he didn't. Shut up. He used to be a Mountie for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

Now he worked as a consultant for Boeing. He paid his rent on time, and he always offered to pay cash. Then, one evening, about two months after Don had moved in, Celia was laying in bed when one of her other boarders came to her room. There was a situation. She needed to come downstairs. When Celia went downstairs, she found more than 10 U.S. Marshals and Portland police officers in her living room. The head marshal stepped forward and introduced himself to Celia and then asked her about her boarder, Don.

Celia, concerned, was like, oh oh my gosh has something happened to him the marshal calmed celia and confirmed that don we don't send this many people to say someone died exactly don was fine in fact he just arrested him in the front yard. Because Don wasn't Don. He didn't work for Boeing. He'd never been a Mountie. He wasn't Native American. And he'd never been divorced. He had, however, been wanted on multiple felony charges for almost two years. When they arrested Don that night, they searched his backpack and they found three wallets, each complete with debit cards and IDs suggesting that he was Kenneth D. Morissette, Alan Reese Lacey,

or Anderson Yazzie. Other materials in his possession identified him as Lodi Jean Bitsy, Dale Buqua, Richard Overturf Jr., and Anatoly Volokonsky. No. OK. They're terrible names. If you're going to make up names, don't do weird ones. Right.

You ever heard of Dave Smith? Lodi Bitsy. OK. That sounds like an Austin Powers. That is ridiculous. Richard Overturf. These are terrible names. Dick Overturf.

Okay. So he's, he's choosing these. That is. Yeah. When Marshall searched a storage unit, he rented, they found a suitcase full of other people's documents, driver's license, birth certificates, credit reports.

Another contained newspaper-wrapped bricks of cash totaling more than $981,000. $981,000! What? $181,000! What? Also among his possessions were eight pairs of non-prescription glasses, more than 200 passport photos showing him disguised by various haircuts and facial hair, and a DVD of Catch Me If You Can. Oh, God.

Oh. Have you seen Catch Me If You Can. Oh, God. Oh. Have you seen Catch Me If You Can? I sure have. Don't give me that face. Who's in it? Leonardo DiCaprio. And? Christopher Walken. That's amazing. Your expectations were so low no i um we all know i haven't seen many movies and we all

know that i lie about the movies that i have seen but i love con men yeah of course i've seen yes catch me if you can if for anybody who has not seen catch me if you can it is the true story of the titanic sinking frank abagnale as the puzzle unfolded before her what you thinking about the titan your titanic joke you just made yes i'm laughing i think christopher walking was in that one And I'm laughing. I think Christopher Walken was in that one, Kristen. You must not be a big Walken fan because he was for sure in it.

Okay. As the puzzle unfolded before her, Celia couldn't believe what she was hearing. It was like living in a movie, she later recalled. But if Don wasn't Don, who was he? Turns out that for nearly a decade, Don Morissette had been known as Bobby Charles Thompson, a retired naval commander, a big time political donor, and the face of a nonprofit called the United States Navy Veterans Association. I misspelled that so bad in my notes. It's amazing that I was able to read that. Is Navy a hard word for you?

I misspelled states and veterans. In both his capacity as a political donor and the face of the charity, he'd rubbed elbows with a lot of big names in Washington. There are pictures of him with John McCain, John Boehner, George W. Bush, and Rudy Giuliani, just to name a few. This is crazy.

I love everything about this. He even sent out Christmas cards with a picture of him shaking George Bush's hand on it. They read, Happy Holidays! Best wishes from your friends Bobby and George. Okay. Bobby and George. Okay. The USNVA was founded in 2002 and raised money at an astonishing rate.

They outsourced their fundraising to telemarketers and raised money all over the country. In the post 9-11 climate, donors were quick to open their wallets to help those who served America. Yep. By 2009, the USNVA had 41 state chapters, plus its Washington, D.C. headquarters. And disclosures filed by the nonprofit showed that in the seven years since its launch, their revenue totaled right about $100 million. What? What? What? 2008 and 2009, he made donations of more than $135,000 to various candidates, including Michelle Bachman. Oh, my gosh. John McCain, Mitt Romney, and the National Republican Senatorial Committee.

Wow. Thompson was described as a bit of a zealot, and many people thought he was strange. But his presence in Washington and the success of his charity gave him legitimacy. I think Barry Edwards, a political consultant who spent time with Bobby in Washington, said it best. I just thought he was a nice guy who was a kook. And that's the brilliance of his con. Oh! Keep going!

It was kind of by accident that anyone learned that Bobby maybe wasn't who he claimed to be. And that maybe the United States Navy Veterans Association wasn't the legitimate charity it purported to be. Oh my gosh. wasn't the legitimate charity it purported to be. Oh my gosh. Jeff Testerman was an investigative reporter for the St. Petersburg Times who was doing a piece on a county official he believed had lied about his military record. And while looking through the man's campaign donation list, he saw a check listed from the USNVA. Testerman knew Bobby Thompson as the face of this organization, and he knew he lived there in Tampa. So he figured he'd go to his

house, tell him about the county officials past, and leave with a good quote for the article. That isn't quite what happened. When Testerman arrived at Bobby's Tampa duplex one morning in August of 2009, he found him outside looking disheveled and reeking of alcohol. What time of day was this? It was in the morning. Oh. He asked Bobby about the campaign donation to the county official, and Bobby quickly grew agitated by the line of questioning he denied

that the us nva gave political contributions and when testerman realized he wasn't going to get much further with bobby he asked for his military rank for the article and so he could just be on his way lieutenant colonel navy reserve retired bobby barked before storming inside jeff left that day with a weird feeling in his gut oh my god and his 30 years of experience as a reporter told him to follow that instinct he'd been investigating a minor fraud but now he believed he may have stumbled onto something bigger this story has everything i love investigative reporting the saint petersburg times i love that newspaper oh god this is the best he just felt that bobby didn't come across as what he was supposed to be. So Jeff Testerman decided to look into it.

He started small. He tried to confirm Bobby's military record. But the government told him no such records existed. Then he began calling the U.S. NVA incessantly in an attempt to reach someone other than Bobby at the organization. He left messages for Jack Nimitz and Brian Reagan, who were listed as the chairman and secretary. They don't exist. No one ever called him back.

Oh my God, it's just this dude running this thing out of his duplex, getting drunk at all hours of the morning. Kristen, this organization has raised $100 million for Navy veterans. Well, I believe that it's raised a lot of money. I don't believe that it went to Navy veterans. With the help of one of the newspaper's researchers, Jeff searched for the 85 directors, officials, and auditors listed on the official filings of the USNBA. They could only confirm the existence of one, Bobby Thompson. They also discovered that almost all of the addresses of those 41 state chapters

were P.O. boxes. Oh. And the U.S. NVA's headquarters in Washington, D.C.? Why, that was a rented mailbox at a UPS store. Testermint sent questions to the U.S. NVA asking for explanations about these findings, and Helen McMurray, an attorney retained by the association, stood in to defend them. She told the newspaper that the U.S. NBA had, quote, accomplished major specific quantifiable achievements and would not lightly permit itself to be disparaged.

She defended them because it was her job. But the whole thing got her thinking. She'd been working with this association for a while now. Oh my god, oh I love everything! And there'd been some oddities. Her mind flashed to the IRS. She only worked with one guy the whole time? Her mind flashed to the IRS audit she had helped the association with. It was specifically an audit of the Connecticut chapter,

and problems arose from the word go. When Helen met with Bobby to prepare, his hair was a mess, his shirt was filthy, and he reeked of alcohol. Then there were the records. Seemingly, all of the Connecticut chapter's records had been destroyed in a flood. All that were left were the receipts that Bobby had in his possession.

And those were odd. What year was this again? It's, I don't know, 2009, 2010, somewhere in there. And they only have printed paper records? That's correct. Yeah, okay. Okay, Bobby. Yeah, so everything's ruined in a flood.

All they have are whatever records Bobby had on his person. And it makes sense because it's correct. Yeah, okay. Okay, Bobby. Yeah, so everything's ruined in a flood. All they have are whatever records Bobby had on his purse. And it makes sense because it's 1930. Many of the receipts that he had were for purchases made in Tampa, not Connecticut. And some didn't seem like legitimate write-offs or expenses. There were receipts for hair dye and rat traps and McDonald's hot fudge sundaes. Oh my god. Why would you even turn up? Then there were handwritten notes labeled with misspelled Connecticut towns. Oh god. It was odd. It was a mess. But ultimately, they'd passed the audit.

How? I have no idea. So the USNVA must be real, Helen told herself. She kind of laughed off her questioning of the legitimacy of the USNVA as she took in the scope of the organization. It had raised millions of dollars and it had a leadership team of over a dozen people. Of course it was real. Sure, she'd never met anyone other than Bobby, but she'd corresponded with the rest of the leadership team on countless occasions. Oh my gosh, did they all have the same writing style and make the same spelling errors? It had to be real. If it wasn't real, then this was an unfathomably elaborate farce. So Helen goes to Bobby and she's like, if there's even a speck

of truth to these accusations that Testerman is putting out there about this organization, then as your lawyer, I need to know about it so I can get out in front of it. Yeah. Yeah. Tell me now. Yeah. But Bobby's like, no, there's not one ounce of truth to it. But if you feel like you need more confirmation than just me saying that, why don't you go ahead, hire a private investigator, have a look into me, have a look into the organization. You have my permission.

No. Yeah. Was this just something he was saying, hoping she would take him up? I think he was bluffing, yeah. Yeah. That's my guess. But she did it. Oh. And the private investigator only raised more questions in Helen's mind.

The PI was able to confirm that Bobby had no military record. And it also discovered that the social security number he was using belonged to William J. DuPont Jr. Oh my gosh. Helen confronted Bobby with this information, but he told her he could explain everything. So one day they met for breakfast and Bobby told Helen that he had enlisted in the Navy under a relative's name. That was why he had no military record. He also let her in on a big secret. He was military intelligence.

Oh, shut up. And the USMBA was receiving funding from a secret CIA budget. Okay. They were probably being followed and watched at that very moment. She thought he was nuts. But technically, the USNVA was her client, not Bobby. So she stayed on with them. Then, in March of 2010,

the shit hit the fan. Jeff Testerman's expose hit the newsstands. The headline read, Multi-million dollar non-profit charity for Navy veterans steeped in secrecy. The article revealed the non-existent headquarters and chapters, and the fact that, in the end, the searchesent headquarters and chapters and the fact that in the end the

searches for people and documents within the organization all came back to one man. They did note that in 2008 the association gave about $27,000 to several legitimate groups, but they also reported that since 1999 Thompson had personally spent about $200,000 on political causes and had used a political action community to spend another $100,000. It was a lot of money for a man whose association paid him no salary. Mm-hmm. salary. The article also revealed that the nonprofit declined to reveal where its millions of dollars in income went. Helen McMurray cut her ties with the USNVA immediately,

as did the Associated Community Services, which was the telemarketing firm that they used to solicit donations. And Bobby Thompson went on the run. Whoa. So this article blows up. Yep. It's news nationwide because donations had come from all over the country to this association. It raised $100 million.

Yeah. And attorney generals all over the country started looking into it to see if a crime was committed in their state. Right. But the first to really get something going on it was the Ohio Attorney General Richard Cordray. I don't know if that's how you pronounce it.

Cordray. He took the lead and assembled a team to investigate Bobby and the association. They quickly uncovered something that Jeff Testerman hadn't. To rent a mailbox, Thompson had used the credentials of a Native American man living outside of Seattle. He was the real Bobby Thompson. They believed that this was proof that the non-profit con man was also an identity thief.

We don't know who this individual is yet, Cordray announced, but we do know that he's not Bobby Thompson. God, that has to be like impossible to track someone down like that. I mean, obviously not impossible, but... The manhunt was on. In the fall of 2011, more than a year into the manhunt, a U.S. marshal in Ohio.

No, I'm sorry. U.S. marshals in Ohio joined the investigation. By this time, more stolen identities had emerged. The investigative team spoke to the victims, but each time it just turned up another dead end. U.S. Marshal Bill Bolden. Did the victims know him at all? No. Okay, so they felt like he just got plucked?

They were like showing his picture. Nobody recognized him. Nobody had ever heard of him. None of them had donated to the charity yeah whoa okay yeah it was my other theory okay weird u.s marshal bill bolden was leading the team and he had over 20 years of experience in law enforcement but this case was unlike any he'd had before he'd never worked a case where he didn't even know the suspect's name. They didn't know who this guy was. That sucks. That sucks.

In February of 2012, the team learned of another stolen identity. This time, it was the identity of a man named Lance Guy Martin. Martin had addresses listed on a reservation in New Mexico, as well as Providence, Rhode Island. But when investigators spoke to tribal police in New Mexico, they said that Lance had never been on a plane. So the Providence address had to belong to their fugitive. Oh my gosh. Marshals quickly took off for Providence, but were disappointed when they tracked down Thompson's landlord. He confirmed that he had, in fact, rented the apartment to him, but that he'd already been gone for a few months. So the landlord also said that when, like, the guy stopped paying his rent,

he wasn't around anymore, so he goes into the apartment and he finds that it's basically empty. Uh-huh. Except that it's got, like, an altar set up in it and rows of chairs. And various religious materials. It looks like he tried to start a Christian charity. Well, he's not a fugitive. Oh, my gosh.

Of this other fake charity. Yes. Is that not crazy? It makes sense, though. I mean, do what you do. Do what you do. Yeah, do what you do. Yeah. The marsh do what you do. Yeah.

The Marshalls were obviously disappointed, but they did uncover some helpful information in Providence. While there, Thompson had purchased some prepaid debit cards under the name Anderson Yazzie. And those cards had recently been used in Portland, Oregon. So Marshalls took off to Portland with the intention of staying there as long as it took to track Bobby Thompson down and take him into custody. They arrived in Portland on a Monday. And that evening, Bill Bolden went into a pub where they had tracked Thompson's debit card activity. He sat down at the bar, looked over, and there was Bobby Thompson drinking a beer. Oh, my gosh.

Can you fucking imagine? That is the best. The only thing better would be if he'd gone to the McDonald's, ordered the hot fudge sundae, or hung out at the box, tear dye in Walmart, just waiting for one other dude. Yeah. The team followed Bobby home that night

and prepared to arrest him. They were ready for anything. Would this manhunt end in violence? Would he try and run again? They didn't know. They had to be ready. In the end, though, he was taken into custody

just after 10 p.m. without incident. As he was being handcuffed, though, he was taken into custody just after 10 p.m. without incident. As he was being handcuffed, though, he immediately invoked his Fifth Amendment rights. Sure. He wouldn't say a word. Yep. In fact, he wouldn't even tell investigators his real name, signing his name only as X on booking documents oh what a douche for five months authorities in ohio tried to find his real identity oh my gosh fingerprints failed to turn up any clues as did palm prints dna testing and handwriting analysis. It wasn't until September of 2012 that investigators would get a break with a little help from Google.

Investigators were so frustrated that they couldn't ID him. Well, yeah. And that he was refusing to give them anything. Yeah. So one investigator goes on to, gets on Google and he's like, most wanted white collar fugitives. Throws it into Google. Comes back with a list of the 10 most intriguing white collar crime fugitives. Number two on the list was a man named John Donald Cody.

Cody was a lawyer who'd been wanted since 1984 on theft and fraud charges in Arizona. He spoke Italian and Tagalog and was wanted for questioning. Tagalog? That's a Filipino language. Tagalog? That's a Filipino language. And he was also wanted for questioning in an espionage case. And he reportedly didn't have any tear glands.

He literally could not cry. What? Yeah. The article linked to a wanted poster. And though the man was much younger, there was that unmistakable poofy pompadour. They had a name. The marshals contacted the FBI, who forwarded over Cody's fingerprints, which for some reason had never been added to the criminal database. And it was a match. Oh my gosh!

A short time later, investigators met with Bobby Thompson and slapped the wanted poster down in front of them. Oh my God. John Cody, your time is up, they declared. And Thompson looked at them and gave nothing but a slight grim. He just, nothing, didn't say a word. John Cody's life was even more interesting than Bobby Thompson's or Don Morsette's. Born in 1947 in Hoboken, New Jersey, he was indeed a veteran, but of the Army, not the Navy.

He enrolled in ROTC at the University of Virginia, then attended Harvard Law, juggling classes with Airborne and Ranger trainings. Yeah. After graduation, he served in military intelligence. From 1972 to 1979, he worked at law firms in Honolulu, Manhattan, and New Orleans. He joined a timber company in Washington State, and he studied for an MBA in the Philippines. During that same time, he was an Army Reserve intelligence officer. He was trained to do much more than gather information. He studied civil disturbances,

nuclear weapons employment, and counterinsurgency techniques used covertly in foreign states. Cody's last known address before he fled was Sierra Vista, Arizona, where he practiced law in the early 80s. The army base there reportedly served as a headquarters for covert operations in Central America. It was during this period that Paul Rubin, a reporter with the local paper, received an intriguing tip that Cody was stealing from the estate of two deceased clients.

Rubin confronted Cody at home. He remembered that his bedroom was just like one little bed in the middle of the room. There was like a lamp on a stand and then next to his bed were two piles. One was a neat pile of law books and one was a stack of 25 or 30 playboy magazines work and play that's correct ruben published the theft allegation against cody though cody denied it and cody essentially went

underground on may 22nd 1984 he was seen running out of his office and jumping into his orange Corvette. He would spend the next 28 years as a fugitive. Oh my gosh. Two months later, law enforcement found the Corvette at the Phoenix airport with the keys in the ignition. A grand jury indicted him on theft and fraud charges determining that Cody did steal about a hundred thousand dollars from his clients he was disbarred in the state of Arizona initially he left a trail allegedly using false tax documents to establish fraudulent identities and get a loan in Virginia and then he disappeared without a trace. Is this nuts?

This is crazy. This is amazing. The trial of the state of Ohio versus Bobby Thompson, AKA John Cody began October 7th, 2013. Bobby Thompson was charged with 23 counts, including theft, money laundering, engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity, tampering with records, and identity fraud. He pled not guilty.

In opening statements, the prosecution hypothesized that Thompson's decades of crime had begun when he was passed over for a promotion in the Army. He is John Donald Cody, and what the evidence will show you is that he is simply a thief, a thief who could not tell the truth, prosecutors said. And then the defense offered up an alternate theory for the jury. Cody was no criminal. He had, in fact, served his countries on one of the deepest levels possible. John Donald Cody was a CIA agent. Oh. He was a non-official cover agent, secretly furthering American interests via charities and nonprofits, including the USMBA. How else do you explain his ability to get close to such high-ranking members of the

government? The defense asked the jury. Are you allowed to just say that? Apparently. That's insane. that apparently that's insane i feel like the cia should be able to step forward and be like nope for sure no no offense to my client but he's someone who kind of stands out just look at him the defense said the defense also said that this explained why Cody's fingerprints, though in the FBI's possession, had never been added to the criminal database. So they're like, this dude's not a criminal.

He's in the CIA. He was doing exactly what the CIA told him to do. Again, how do you... Continue. What do you mean, how do you say that? You say that if it's the truth, Kristen. Who's going to back you up on that? That's just it!

Nobody can confirm or deny it! Maybe it's a brilliant defense. Because it's not like theia can come out and be like illegal and it should be illegal to use that defense come out and say no it should be illegal to use that defense because then people could do anything oh i was acting as part of the cia yeah sorry i'm just a super patriotic guy. Sorry, I love America so much. So much.

I'm deep in the CIA here. Okay. I will say, as far-fetched as these claims sound, Cody's military file does actually contain a top-secret security clearance approved in the 1970s by an unnamed federal agency other than the Army. So who knows? Maybe he is in the CIA. Then the CIA would have gotten him out of this.

The CIA wouldn't have let one of their own go to trial. Right, don't you think? Yeah, no. have gotten him out of this the cia wouldn't have let one of their right don't you think yeah no whatever the case cody's purported life as a secret agent didn't go anywhere in court the prosecution mounted a week's long account of cody's con debriefing the jury with more than a hundred exhibits the fake ids the contents of his room his suitcases and his hard drives the actual 981 000 from the storage unit were brought into court. Cody found himself listening to witnesses he probably thought he'd never meet. The real Alan Lacey, the real Anderson Yazzie, and the real Bobby Thompson all testified at trial.

Also, if you were in the CIA, there wouldn't be stealing identities from random real people. Exactly. And all of these people were brought in and questioned, like, do you know this man? No. Have you ever met him? No. Did you give him permission to use your identity? No. Absolutely not.

To use your identity. No. Absolutely not. In court, the prosecution painted a picture of the smooth operator who liked to work rooms full of power brokers. But people such as Jeff Testerman and Helen McMurray also testified about his other persona. The disheveled, boo-scented one who showed up for that IRS audit, for example. Mm-hmm. one who showed up for that irs audit for example it was a version of that character who emerged as the trial neared its end during a recess one day loud thumps reverberated through the courtroom cody was in an adjacent holding cell and was banging his head against a brick wall so hard

that he stained it with blood oh my a week later he showed up to court late his forehead was all scabbed up from that incident his hair was uncombed and his shirt was unbuttoned to his belly button oh his lawyer didn't help him with that apparently not oh my his lawyer didn't help him a lot, as it turns out. John Cody did not testify in his own defense. Well, that's good. In fact, the defense called no witnesses and declined to offer a closing argument. Oh!

We just talked about this, remember? Who knew that was optional? Well, and I love that they did, like, the world's craziest opening statement oh it's cool everybody he's cia so yeah it's crazy so in in uh pre-trial filings they submitted like all of these witnesses they were they were gonna call barack obama like all these crazy defense people and then they called no witnesses. Yeah. Do you think they submitted all that pretrial stuff to like try to scare the prosecution? Yeah, I'm sure.

Yeah, okay. I'm sure. On November 14th, John Cody was found guilty on all 23 counts. Why? Why? John Cody finally spoke at his sentencing hearing. Just briefly, Your Honor. Oh, God.

Cody said. Here we go. Thank you. I understand what the court is doing by referring to me as Mr. Cody, but Bobby Charles Thompson is my name. John Donald Cody was sentenced to 28 years in Ohio prison. I understand what the court is doing. Uh-huh. Yeah.

It's no trick to call you by your name. Brandi, I know what you're up to, referring to me as Kristen. Kristen Pitts. I don't like it, but I guess I have to accept it. Okay, so he's sentenced to 28 years. What do you think about that? Isn't that exactly as long as he was on the run? Mm-hmm.

You love poetic justice. How old is he at this point? 67, 69, something like that. that okay so he'll die in prison yeah i think that seems about right i i can't believe how much money he took see i would feel like if he was younger then then he should have gotten a longer sentence but so he's sentenced to 28 years and he was ordered to pay 6.3 million dollars in fines and investigative costs citing the damages done to veterans who could have been helped by the funds raised for the usmba the judge ordered that cody spend every veterans day in solitary confinement oh i like that. Oh, man. Isn't that good? Yeah, that's pretty good.

Cody appealed his sentence. And in 2015, the Ohio Court of Appeals reduced his sentence by one year, stating that the Ohio courts did not have the jurisdiction for 11 of the identity theft charges. Okay. charges. Okay. They also removed the requirement that Cody spend Veterans Day in solitary confinement, stating that the judge lacked the authority to impose a punishment of that nature. Okay. I really liked it, though. I know. You know, I feel like that's 2012 arrest, so the $981,000, was awarded to the Ohio Attorney General's Office for distribution to legitimate veteran charities. In 2016, the first of these distributions was made in the form of a $50,000 grant to an Ohio military veterans legal assistance project. Wow. John Cody has never revealed what happened to the bulk of the money.

That's exactly what I was about to ask. So he really did raise all that money. He really did raise all that money. And how much was it? $100 million. And it was funding his political contributions, but he didn't give

anywhere close to that in political contributions. And, you know, just under shy of a million dollars in cash was found. So where's the rest of it? Oh, my gosh.

That's horrible. Yeah. And that's the... It makes me so so mad because veteran like you think about veterans health care like and like oh my gosh the fact that like it started just right after 2000 like the right after 9-11 yeah yes we're raising money for veterans like yeah of course i'll give some. Of course. Is that not a crazy con? That was an amazing story. I loved everything about it. I do wonder about that lawyer.

What was she being paid? Yeah. For her to stay? Yeah. Yeah. So when she cut ties with him, she immediately hired a lawyer because she was like, I'm going to get wrapped up in this, obviously. Yeah. Because they're going to claim that I, I don't know, knew or whatever.

Helped out somehow. Helped out somehow. But nothing ever, it doesn't seem like that ever happened. No one ever believed that anybody other than john cody was the mastermind of this man yeah i'm amazed i'm absolutely amazed yeah first of all i can't believe you've never heard of this case because you love conman so much i know and there's an episode of American Greed about this guy. And I love American Greed. I know. Wow. That was so good.

It was a crazy one. I do have to say, though, this was really outside of what I usually do. No stabbings. This was definitely your case. I have got to get back to some murders for sure. Did you not enjoy that one? I did. I thought it was super interesting.

Yeah. I did. I really liked it, but just didn't. Sorry it was too lighthearted. What with the veterans being ripped off. I have to tell you a story about something that happened this week. Please do. So we had game

night with my family uh-huh and i was like i've been saying for weeks now that the next time we have a game night we're playing fucking taboo i'm tired of not playing it because could you stop and explain to people what you're like in a game night scenario i am very competitive. I love playing games. I love it even more if I'm winning. So you're at game night. Yeah. Zach's there with you.

Yeah. Zach did not play games. See, I only said that to set you up because I thought Zach refused to go. He went. Oh, okay. But he sat in the living room and watched baseball while we played games. Okay, I'll stop interrupting you. So, the first game that we play is Taboo.

There's six of us playing. We're split into two teams of three. Casey, who is my sister, and the reason that we don't play Taboo in my family because she's a big weenie about it um i would love to her her version yeah okay i'm the reason we don't play taboo okay um but because why you said you called her a big weenie what are you in her version of the story uh i'm an uh overzealous buzzer. So we get out Taboo and I'm like, well, let's play. Casey and I are on opposites teams. She's actually going to be buzzing me.

Okay. And I have said that I will not take the buzzer. I will play the whole game without the buzzer. Totally fine. So we start out. The teams are myself, my dad, and my brother-in-law, James. Okay. Versus Casey, Lisa, my stepmother, and my aunt, Stephanie. Okay.

I go first. Of course. It's like riding a bicycle. Comes right back to me. I get fucking. and first explain what Taboo is for people who don't know. Okay, Taboo is a game where you get a card with a word on the top of it and then a list of

like five words that you can't say. And you're trying to get your team to guess that word and you can't say any of the five words. If you say any of those words or any part of those words, you get buzzed, you lose a point, whatever. And you've got like a certain amount of time to do this in.

So out the gate, I get fucking eight on my turn. I am living my best life. It's amazing. You guys should see. She's glowing right now in the memory of this. So our team is kind of killing it. Uh-huh. And then, you know, it goes around.

I've got my second turn. Okay. I get a card. I said one of the words. I just didn't read it. Yep. Yeah. Casey buzzes me.

And she buzzes that saying. She holds that fucking buzzer down. Yay! Like, it's bad. And I'm like, all right, I fucking get it. But I keep going, you know. My turn goes. Yeah.

Next. Now it's Lisa's turn. I have the buzzer for Lisa's turn, which has been against the rules, but they were like, fine, just take the buzzer. We trust you. I have the buzzer for Lisa's turn. Lisa says part of one words. I go to buzzer.

The buzzer doesn't work. Uh-huh. The buzzer has stopped working. Casey buzzed out the buzzer while playing. She buzzed me so hard. I open up the battery compartment to see like if the batteries just need, you know, sometimes they come a little loose. You got to just rotate them in there or whatever.

Had Casey taken out the batteries? No. It was so corroded in there for these batteries. We had not played this game in so long, because Casey has refused to play it for years and years and years, that the batteries had corroded inside of there. So we had to go buzzer free the rest of the time. Casey killed the buzzer.

And my dad, James, and I won by so much that the rest of the family has refused to ever play taboo with us again. You are, you're super competitive. Love, love to win. Kasey's competitive too, though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And she, but she doesn't like that game. She finds it just, it's too stressful, like, trying to come up with the alternate clues in, like, a time period with somebody buzzing you. So it's just not, it just makes her very anxious, and that's why she doesn't like to play it. It's not because you're a jerk. Might also be because I kicked her ass at it, but that's neither here nor there. Oh, she'll for sure want to play with you again after she hears this. No, I mean, I've got nothing to lose now.

She's never going to play with me again. Like, this was the one chance we had. Yeah. We fucking murdered him so bad, she'll never play it again. At least she got to go down with the satisfaction of killing that buzzer. Good for you, Casey. We support you.

Norman, like you, is competitive, does not enjoy losing one bit. I just like playing games. Don't give me that look like I'm some simpleton. I saw this picture online today

of this woman at a baseball game. She looks super bored. She's in this black t-shirt that says I just hope both teams have fun. That's you! Yes! That is exactly me. That's totally you. I do not hope both teams have fun.

I hope my team fucking crushes the other team. Fun is like your lowest priority at game night yeah like if i have fun that is a bonus what's the angriest you've gotten in a game night situation oh man i don't know i don't really get angry i get mad at myself like no really i'm not i don't get mad at the other people i get mad at myself because i'm like i should be fucking better than that i do yeah i can't think of a time that i've got the lie detector reveals that was a lie i'm 100 serious i'll let you know casey will hear this and she can i'll report back if she's got some other feedback no i know you're lying because that you've told me about a time.

I didn't assume it was the worst time. It was just that time that you and I think your dad and Lisa and Casey went to like St. Louis or someplace for a trivia contest. And like nobody listened to you about one of the

Do you not remember this? And you were so pissed. I totally forgot about that. about one of the do you not remember this and you were so pissed okay so we did a team trivia competition and there was i'm trying oh the um there was so the round was The topic was game shows. Right. And you got like a little synopsis of a game show. And you had to figure out what game show it was. And... Or you got the... No, you got like the tagline of the game show.

That's what it was. Okay. And you had to figure out what game show it was. And there was one. And I was sure that the answer was to tell the truth. And my dad and Casey were sure that it was something else, and now I can't remember what it was. And so two against one, we went with their answer.

It was fucking to tell the truth. I was pretty upset about that. Oh, but you don't really get upset with other people. You just get upset with yourself. And we tied for first place in that whole comp. 40, like 40 fucking five teams. Uh-huh. We tied for first place.

And then we lost the tiebreaker, which was just like, wait, guess how many points you're going to get for the night. If we had guessed, if we had gone with my answer on that one then what would have happened we would have won outright we would have in first place instead we got second that's just the first loser kristin you guys the reason brandy's upset is because first prize was a million dollars. No, in reality, first prize was $200 and you are expected to donate it to the charity that the event is in honor of. Was it a fake Navy charity? Yes. Now that you mentioned it, I think it might have been. It was the human fund. And I think it might have been.

It was the human fund. Well, I'm glad that you were honest about that. Anyway, I'm over this game night conversation. What I'd like to say is that I have gotten a little bit of feedback. Uh-oh. From our listeners. Okay. That they're missing the murders.

Really? I had already picked this case, though, and I couldn't. Yeah, the girls at the salon were telling me, they're like, we like it when you do the murders. Those are our favorites. Oh, God, I get bummed out. I'm going, I'm going to go hard on a murder next week. I don't, I haven't picked it yet, so. Okay. It's going to be a good one. Lots of blood.

Ew. I hope you're ready, Kristen. No, I'm not. I'm just here to i'm not i'm just here to have fun i hope both teams have fun and there's not a lot of blood what else you got for us over there let's see i'm. I'm thinking. I'm thinking. Oh, everyone should know that I recently beat Norman at Trivial Pursuit two times in a row. That's right. I just want people to know. Just putting that out there for the universe to hear. It's one of those things that never happens, and it's happened twice in a row,

which means that it's going to be another two years before he plays Trivial Pursuit with me again because he gets a little bitter. And I like to rub it in. Yeah. I mean, you text me immediately both times. Oh, yeah. And he was like, he didn't even, well, no, he did know. So, like, I won the game.

I immediately pick up my phone. And he goes, oh, oh i'm gonna text brandy um do you want to talk about what happened to us on twitter this week what happened to us on twitter our singing was found out oh my god okay so during the last episode well first of all let's just say we recorded at a different time than we usually do yes we recorded in the evening and at one point in the episode it's toward the very end you said to me thank you for being a friend yeah and of course i responded traveled down the road and back again so we're starting in on the golden girls theme song you couldn't remember the next

line so we started singing from the beginning very loudly oh top of our lungs the golden girls theme song we're just having a good time immediately after we're i was like we'll for sure cut that yeah that was embarrassing yes that will of course not make it to the final episode and it didn't it's correct take it away brandy so what we failed to consider when we were singing at the top of our lungs because we were recording at not our usual time is that a small distance from us, just right above us, Norm was streaming away on Twitch.

And it turns out that his stream picked up our singing. Which in case you're wondering, was not good. No, it wasn't great. Listen, we were both here to have fun. We weren't performing. So we were called out a bit on Twitter by Mark that he overheard our singing. So really anybody who's listening that happened to be watching that stream on Twitch that day,

we're very sorry that you had to be exposed to that. And it was just really a humbling moment. Yeah. For those of you who will be loyal to us and stick around, we want to say thank you for being a friend. That's right. Thank you for joining us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, if you have already.

If you haven't, please. Be a pal and a confidant. Yeah. Hey, Kristen, if I threw a party and invited everyone I knew. You would see the biggest gift would be from me. And the card attached would say, thank you for being a friend. It's a lot better when we say it. It is way better. But I guess I'd just like to say, you know, thank you for listening. And be sure to join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics.

Podcast adjourned! And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web, and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from D Magazine, an episode of 2020, Texas Monthly, and a bit from Wikipedia. And I got my info from The Washingtonian, The Tampa Bay Times, ABC News, and Wikipedia. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com.

Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.