Let's Go To Court! - 39: Intern Chandra Levy & the Wichita Horror

Episode Date: October 24, 2018

Chandra Levy had her life together. She was an intern at the Federal Bureau of Prisons and was just a few days shy of graduating with a master’s degree in public administration. She had dreams of working for the FBI. Maybe the CIA. So when she suddenly went missing in early May of 2001, her parents were alarmed. Their alarm swelled when they learned that Chandra’d been having an affair with Congressman Gary Condit. Was Condit to blame for Chandra’s disappearance? Had he done something to her? Despite a damn good alibi, suspicion enveloped Condit. In the winter of 2000, two men terrorized Wichita, Kansas. Over a short period, their random crimes escalated. First they robbed a man. Then they shot a woman. Then, they raped and terrorized a group of five, twenty-something friends. The men murdered four of the five friends. The lone survivor lived through the ordeal when the killers’ bullet deflected off her barrette. She played dead, then sought help. Ultimately, her testimony helped put the men behind bars. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Who Killed Chandra Levy?” Washington Post investigative series by Sari Horwitz, Scott Higham, Sylvia Moreno Season 38, Episode 48 of 20/20 “Chandra Levy,” Wikipedia “Gary Condit,” Wikipedia In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “The Wichita Horror” by Denise Noe, Crime Library “True Crime: The Wichita Massacre” by Kara Kovalchik, MentalFloss.com “High court overturns death penalty sentences for Carr brothers, upholds conviction” by Sherman Smith, The Topeka Capital-Journal “Supreme Court restores death sentences in heinous Kansas murder spree” by Richard Wolf, USA Today  

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A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Pitts. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about intern Chandra Levy.

And I'll be talking about the Wichita Horror. I have no idea what yours is about. Oh my god. But I'm terrified because I know that you're about to do a murder one and it's going to be bad. Okay. So, last week, at the end of the episode, I promised that I would do a murder this week. And I promised that it would be a really bad one with lots of blood. God. And I may have over delivered.

Over delivered? This is the worst murder case I've ever talked about on the podcast. Oh, no. My dad recommended it to me. So I left here. So, you know, we record on Wednesdays, then we go to lunch and then I bowl in a bowling league on Wednesday. So I went to bowling last Wednesday and I was like, dad, I have got to come up with a really good murder case to do next week. What should I do? And he's like, oh, well, you know what you should do. And like, I've had this case like in the back of my mind for a

long time yeah and he was like you gotta do it and i was like okay i'm gonna do it but it's bad oh my god it's really bad you know how i get with these i'm not good with these i hope there's a weird sexual element because that's really my forte you're gonna wish you hadn't said that. Oh, no. Oh, God. All right. So should we just jump right in? No, we shouldn't.

Oh. You know why? Because this episode is sponsored by the Gaming Historian. He's so cute. I've got to have. What? No. Please don't say stuff like that. He's so cute. I've got to have, what, no? Please don't say stuff like that. It makes me uncomfortable.

He's so unattractive. Don't say that either. That's not necessary. The important thing you need to know is that The Gaming Historian has t-shirts. And you know what? They're only 10 bucks. That's two for 20, folks. That's three for 30 four for 40 we could go

on because we're pretty good at math we're excellent at math when we're talking in tens if you would like a gaming historian t-shirt head on over to gaminghistorian.com and get yours today this deal ends at midnight that's a lie It reminds me of those infomercials. Do you remember back in the day? The first 20 colors! Yeah, and I was always like, how do they know? So if you're asking yourself that right now, don't worry about how do you know. It's midnight tonight, no matter what day you listen to this. Absolutely correct. one day you listen to this absolutely correct are you ready maybe not i don't know man you're freaking me out with this so i researched this all week and i just didn't feel great really and then this morning

i read through it and it was the first time that I had read through the whole thing and not just like chunks of it. Yeah. And you realize that it's hilarious and uplifting. No, I realize that it's fucking terrible. Great. Great. So get ready. Okay.

I'm just going to start out by saying that I pulled the majority of this information from an article for Crime Library by Denise Ngo. I've actually pulled. I was going gonna say you love denise's stuff yeah i've used a couple of her things before so hey denise what's up thanks for thanks for helping me out okay that's me trying to pet myself up here it's december 8th 2000 we're at a come and go in wichita kansas i hate that worse it's a convenience store for those of you that don't know with the worst name on the planet k-u-m and go it's terrible wichita is the largest city in kansas it's about two hours and 45 minutes southwest of Kansas City, and it is the same city BTK infamously terrorized for more than 30 years. A 23-year-old assistant baseball coach at Newman University in Wichita named Andrew Schreiber exits the convenience store, and two young African-American men approach him, brandishing a gun. They order Andrew into his

own car and then force him at gunpoint to drive to various ATMs around town to withdraw money. Andrew did as they said. His heart was pounding in his throat, but he thought maybe, just maybe, if he did everything they told him to, they'd let him live. Yeah. everything they told him to, they'd let him live. Yeah. And they did. After Andrew had withdrawn $800, they directed him to a field where they released him,

shot out the tires on his car, and then took off in another vehicle. Wow. I got to say, if someone brought me to a field, I'd be like, we're done. Oh, yeah. I'm like, I'm for sure fucking dying here. Andrew was badly shaken, but he wasn't physically hurt. He could have no way of knowing that he was the first victim in a crime spree of escalating violence that would leave five people dead and come to be known as the Wichita Horror. Oh, my gosh. You've never heard of this?

No. And I don't know how I haven't. The next victim would come three days later on December 11th. Ann Walenta, a 55-year-old wife and mother of two adult children, was returning home from a rehearsal with the Wichita Symphony Orchestra. She played cello for them and she served as the orchestra librarian. At around 9.30 that night, Ann had just parked her SUV in front of her house when a man approached her. I need some help, he told her. But then he pulled out a gun and ordered her not to move her car. Ann panicked.

Just as she was attempting to drive the drive away the man fired the gun bullets shattered the glass of her window and tore through her body oh ann was critically injured but remained conscious and laid on the horn in an attempt to gain the attention of someone nearby kidding me. Isn't that genius? That's amazing. It worked. A neighbor heard her incessant honking and called 911. Yeah. Anne survived for several days at the hospital, even becoming alert enough to tell police of the ordeal and describe her attacker before she ultimately succumbed to her injuries.

The next attack would come three days after Anne's, before she ultimately succumbed to her injuries. The next attack would come three days after Anne's, while she was still clinging to life at a Wichita hospital. Some news sources refer to this next victim by name, and some refer to her by her initials, but because she is a surviving victim of a sex crime, I've made the decision to call her Jane Doe. Cool. Yep. It was around 8.30 on December 14th when Jane Doe pulled up to the triplex her boyfriend, Jason Beffert, shared with his friends, Brad and Aaron.

Jason was a year older than Jane at 26, and like her her he was a school teacher brad heike was 27 and worked for coke industries which is owned by the coke brothers who are from wichita yeah did not know that you didn't know that i knew that coke industries was a big company in wichita i did not know that that's where the coke brothers were from or that that's where it is headquartered yeah interesting yeah um weirdly it's not the grossest thing about this story um by the way for anyone who's like listening and not not certain it's not we're not talking about Coca-Cola that's correct Koch K-O-C-H. Google it. Yeah. Aaron Sander, 29, had also worked for Coke Industries, but had recently left after feeling called to join the Roman Catholic priesthood. Also at the house that evening was Aaron's former girlfriend, 25-year-old Heather Muller.

They had recently split amicably as they both had felt the calling to join the clergy with heather thinking of becoming a nun yeah so heather and aaron are a couple and then they both decide that they're going to join the clergy heather's going to become a nun aaron's going to become a priest. And so they break up but remain close friends while they're starting to pursue these options. I mean, there's easier ways to stop having sex with someone, I feel like. Right? I just cannot imagine the dynamic of a relationship where both people are like you know what i think i'm done permanently that evening the five friends watched tv had dinner and talked before all retiring to

their respective rooms for the night jane and jason were in bed sometime after 11 when the porch light came on and they heard Aaron talking to someone but his voice was muffled so they couldn't make out what he was saying. Jason was irritated about the porch light casting light into the bedroom and was about to get up and shut it off when the bedroom door burst open. In the doorway stood a tall black man with a gun. He came into the room and tore the covers off the bed. Then a second man, also armed with a gun, led Aaron into the room and pushed him onto the bed. The room was dark, but Jane could see that the second intruder was shorter and thinner than the first. Jane's dog, Nikki, growled at the intruders and bared her teeth they told jane to control the

dog or they'd shoot it oh my god then they demanded to know who else was in the house the three were obviously terrified by this point and they just wanted to comply with the intruders so they told them that brad and heather were downstairs at a time, they were brought to the bedroom while one of the gunmen stood watch. When all five were in the bedroom, the men ordered them to undress. The men forced the friends naked into the bedroom closet, bringing them out in different combinations and forcing them to perform sex acts on one another.

Oh, God, that is so horrible the articles and the court records go into great detail about this but i don't feel like it was necessary or appropriate to include that's what i said you were gonna regret that kristin oh no i meant funny stuff okay sorry so i didn't feel that it was necessary to include those details here. If you want to read them, it's readily available online. Cool. Over the next few hours,

Heather and Jane were sexually assaulted by the intruders and the men were beat with a golf club when they were unable to perform sexually.

Oh, God. Yeah. Fucking terrible. Then, one at a time aaron jason brad and jane were taken by one of the men to an atm to withdraw money during this time the other intruder was left at the home to watch the remaining captives he spent that time ransacking the house, looking for valuables. At one point, he found a coffee can with a diamond ring stashed inside. The man asked who it belonged to, and Jason told him it belonged to Jane. Then, turning to Jane, he said, That's for you. I was going to propose on Christmas Eve.

Oh my God. Oh, this sucks. It's the worst story ever. After the men were done driving the captives to the ATM, they forced them into Aaron's Honda Accord. The men were forced naked into the trunk, while Heather, naked from the waist down and shoeless, having only been allowed to put a shirt on, sat in the back seat. The shorter man got into the driver's seat.

Jane, also shoeless and naked from the waist down, was forced to ride with the taller man in Jason's truck. After they'd been driving for a while, Jane asked the man where they were going. He told her they wanted to drop them off in a field away from their vehicles. Eventually, both cars parked at the edge of a snow-covered soccer field. It was roughly like 17 degrees outside. Oh my gosh, and they're all naked. And they're naked. They have no shoes on.

This field has accumulated snow on it. Yes. The men were pulled out of the trunk of the car. this field has accumulated snow on it yes the men were pulled out of the trunk of the car and all five captives were told to kneel in front of the car no they're going to another shot jane felt a bullet slam into her head what everything went white and gray she stopped she saw stars but she didn't lose consciousness one of the men kicked her from behind she She fell forward and pretended to be dead. Oh, my gosh. Then there were more shots.

Jane was laying in the snow, nearly naked, pretending to be dead when she heard the truck start up. The men drove it over the victims. Jane felt the impact, but still didn't lose consciousness. How the hell? No idea. She listened for the sound of the truck's engine to grow distant, and when she felt sure it had driven away, she tilted her head to confirm. When she could just faintly make out the headlights,

she called out to her friends. Jason, Heather, Aaron, Brad. No one answered. Oh my gosh, it's a horrible story. When she could no longer see the lights from the truck, Jane got up to check her friends. They were all face down in the blood-stained snow. Next to her was Jason, the man she loved, the man she knew loved her. He'd wanted to marry her. He just hadn't had the chance to propose. She rolled him over.

Blood was pouring out of his head. She thought, hoped, prayed that there was a chance he was still alive. So she took off her sweater, the one piece of clothing she had on, and wrapped it around his head to try and stop the bleeding. Jane realized she could not save her friends in that field. She needed help. Jane realized she could not save her friends in that field. She needed help.

So she took off running toward a house across the highway where she could see Christmas lights on. She ran naked, shoeless, and bleeding through the snow for more than a mile. Oh my gosh. Each time she saw headlights, she threw herself to the ground in fear that it could be her attackers. Finally, she reached the house and pounded on the front door. The couple who owned the home let her in and bundled her up in blankets. Then they called 911. Jane refused to lie down and rest while waiting for emergency crews.

There was a bullet in her head. She didn't know how much time she had, and she wanted to relate every detail of the crime before she passed out or lost her memory or died. This woman is amazing. Amazing. somehow in the midst of this unimaginable trauma she managed to speak clearly and calmly to dispatchers and direct them to the soccer field when first responders arrived at the field they found the bodies of heather aaron brad and jason the man she loved and her three close friends were all dead. They'd all been shot execution style in the back of the head. Jane was heartbroken. She was the lone survivor of that night of horror and her life had been saved by an incredible will to live and a barrette. When the bullet was fired into her head, it was deflected by a barrette she was wearing in her head or in her hair, which saved her from the full impact of the bullet.

No way. Yes. What the hell kind of barrette was that? It's just described as like a plastic barrette. But somehow somehow like. How is that possible? The bullet hit it and deflected. And so it wasn't a direct hit like into her skull.

I mean, she still was shot in the fucking head. Well, yeah, but oh my God. Is that not insane? Yeah. When police went to the triplex, the place where this nightmare began, they discovered that the two men had returned to the scene after leaving the five for dead. Good God. They'd robbed the place and killed Jane's dog, Nikki.

What the hell? I mean, why? Yeah. The dog can't ID you? It's just crazy. The manhunt for the two assailants was on. Wichita news stations broadcast the grisly details of the crime, along with a description of the assailants and a description of jason's

truck which the men left in the first break came pretty quickly when the morning after the attack a man saw the coverage and thought the description of the truck matched a truck he had seen parked in his apartment complex parking lot whoa police rushed to the complex and confirmed that the truck was in fact Jason Beffert's. While there, a resident flagged officers down and pointed out an apartment on the second floor where he had helped a man carry a big screen TV. A big screen TV was one of the items that was stolen from the scene. Police surrounded the apartment, then knocked on the door a tall black man ran from the apartment onto the balcony and threw one leg over the railing as if preparing to jump then he saw the apartment was surrounded by police and he went back inside his girlfriend

answered the door and police arrested the man and read him his rights. The man was 22-year-old Reginald Carr. He and his 20-year-old brother Jonathan had recently relocated to the Wichita area from Dodge City. Both Carr brothers had extensive arrest records. Carr brothers had extensive arrest records. The news of Reginald's arrest was quickly broadcast across Wichita news stations, and one viewer got a sickening feeling when he saw Reginald's face on his TV. That viewer was Andrew Schreiber. He knew that face. It was one of the men who had robbed him and left him in the field. He called police immediately and let them know. Police believed that Reginald was the taller, heavier attacker

that Jane had described to them. Then police got another big break. Tony Green had been watching the news coverage of the quadruple homicide when she started to get an eerie feeling that the description of one of the assailants sounded a lot like a guy her daughter had been dating for about a week. Oh, no. That guy was Jonathan Carr, and he was asleep on Tony's couch when she got home from work. tony's couch oh when she got home from work she fished around in his leather jacket while he was sleeping and found a diamond ring oh my gosh she knew from news reports that the men suspected in the quadruple homicide had stolen a diamond ring and she knew that jonathan who'd known her daughter for about a week couldn't have bought it for her tony told her daughter of her suspicions and they got out of the house they ran across the street good for them to call the police i know i cannot imagine yeah so they run across the street to

call police before jonathan wakes up so it sounds like they had a bit of a ways to go to the house across the street so she's like calling police on her cell phone as they're running yeah to this neighbor's house she tells that she tells um the dispatcher that she believes the man they are looking for is at her house then as they reach the neighbor's house like something out of a fucking horror movie oh no the women turn around and he's there and see jonathan carr standing on the front porch staring at them oh my god they made eye contact and he ran oh but police were on the scene almost immediately and they chased him they caught up

with him two blocks down the street where they found him hiding between a house's storm door and front door oh my god oh fuck i know is that not fucking terrible so scary yes when they took him into custody he had over $1,000 in cash on him. At the time of the Carr brothers' arrest, Ann Walenta was still clinging to life in a Wichita hospital. Police showed her a photo lineup, and she picked out Reginald Carr as the man who shot her. She did not, however, recognize Jonathan Carr in the lineup.

After he was taken into custody. So Jonathan is the one who keeps not being recognized first by that. Correct. Yep. Weird. So Reginald is recognized

by Andrew and by Ann Walenta at this point. And they believe that Reginald is the man that Jane Doe is describing. Right. But so far, neither Andrew or Anne recognize Jonathan Carr. Neither of them.

Neither of them. So Jonathan Carr is taken into custody custody and he's sitting with homicide detective kelly otis while waiting for a nurse to come in and take uh samples for dna testing while they were waiting jonathan started asking questions he began by asking otis about another recent case in wichita in which four teenagers were shot and killed by two men. Here, here's their exchange. Car. What happened to those guys that shot those kids?

Otis. They've been charged with capital murder. Car. What's capital murder? Otis. Car. Otis. Car.

After a long pause. Do you feel anything from that? Whoa, dude. Otis. We've never been able to ask anyone that. Okay. She's a bit of a smartass. I don't hate it.

Okay, she's a bit of a smartass. I don't hate it. I think this line of questioning is pretty interesting because obviously this shows that he did it and is worried about the consequences. Of course, of course. Reginald and Jonathan Carr were charged with 113 crimes, including five counts of capital murder and multiple counts of rape and robbery. They were also charged with animal cruelty. Well, now, hold on. He was just curious about all those crimes. There was a public outcry by a large number of the citizens of Wichita

to categorize this as a hate crime, as all of the victims were white and the accused perpetrators were black. Oh, that's stupid. The DA refused, though, stating that they felt the crime was financially motivated rather than racially motivated,

which I completely agree with. There were no signs that there was any kind of racial motivation in this whatsoever. They were, however, going to seek the death penalty. Yeah. The Carr brothers were tried together and their trial, with the Honorable Judge Paul Clark presiding, began in September of 2002. A jury of seven men and five women was seated and testimony began. Jane Doe was one of the first to testify and her testimony, like much of the trial, was horrendous. She described the

rape that she and her friends had endured, the trips to the ATM, and finally the shootings. Jane also testified that after the arrest of the Carr brothers, she had been able to identify Jonathan, but not Reginald, in a lineup. So this is the reverse of everybody else. Okay, that's helpful. Because she was in the car with him, right? Okay, yeah, that makes sense. And she attributed this to the fact that Reginald had shaved his head

and worn glasses that he had not been wearing the night of the murders. Okay. A medical expert testified that if it hadn't been for the barrette, Jane would have died alongside her friends in the field that night, as her attackers intended. as her attackers intended. A crime scene investigator testified that Jane's dog, Nikki, had been beaten, likely with a golf club, before being stabbed to death with an ice pick. Oh my God.

Yeah. A dramatic courtroom moment came when trauma surgeon Scott Porter was testifying about the injury sustained to Ann Walenta. As he was describing the injuries and pointing them out on an anatomical mannequin, one of the jurors, a 51-year-old male, fainted and was rushed to the hospital. He was fine and returned to the jury a short time later, but it was just really... It was just too much.

Yeah, it was just too much. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. County Coroner Mary Dudley testified that a gun had been pressed against the heads of Heather and Aaron when they were shot, while Brad and Jason were shot from slightly further away. She also testified that she found evidence that Heather had been raped while all three men

had extensive bruising on their bodies, which she believed came from a golf club. Andrew Schreiber told the court of how he was abducted, robbed, and left in a field. He also testified that though he'd been unable to identify Reginald or Jonathan in a photo lineup following their arrest, he knew for certain that Reginald was one of the men who'd accosted him outside that convenience store. How? He said he just immediately, when they put his picture on the news, he recognized him immediately.

Okay. But the picture that was in the lineup was different. He didn't recognize it. That was in the photo lineup. Hmm. But this is somebody who obviously is changing his appearance to some degree. Okay. The prosecution filled the room with items belonging to the victims that they had found in Reginald Carr's home.

Yeah. See, to me, that's it. Among the items were TVs, a VCR, a CD player, a tool set, remote controls, a cordless phone, and various personal items, including clothing. Friends and family members of the victims took the stand to testify that the items had belonged to their loved ones. It seemed that there was no end to the physical evidence linking the men to the crime, but the most concrete evidence was still to come.

Jesus Christ. Okay, in case I decide to leave that in. guys norman has this thing he does where when we're recording he will come up to the window and just like stand and smile oh my god see i saw him pull up so he did not scare me this time usually he scares me as well i about peed on myself you're telling me this horrible story and all of a sudden he pops up in the window. Too little, too late, peanut. Jump back again just a tiny bit. Sure.

Can't imagine why. Medical examiner. The guy faints on the jury. Yeah, we're way past that, man. They're found guilty. No, we're way past that, man. They're found guilty. No. No, we're not there yet. I'm just guessing. A forensic investigator

testified that a shoe print found at the triplex matched a shoe that Jonathan Carr had lost while running from police prior to his arrest. He also testified that ballistic tests showed that the bullets used to blow out Andrew Schreiber's

tires were fired by the same gun that killed Ann Walenta and that spent cartridges from that same gun were found at the triplex. that same gun were found at the triplex the gun had been recovered along an off-ramp just blocks from the soccer field where the victims were shot but investigators could not directly link it to reginald or jonathan carr they didn't have fingerprints they didn't have been wiped clean oh damn but that's pretty yeah i yeah it might be circumstantial but it's pretty good evidence pretty great circumstances if you ask me yes a dna expert from the kbi testified that jonathan's dna was found in a semen spot on the carpet of the triplex. Yeah, okay, that's great evidence. Yes, and on the swabs taken from Jane Doe's rape kit.

Yep. He also testified that blood found on Reginald's clothing belonged to Heather Muller. I mean, lock them up. I'm like, what more do you need? What more do you need? lock them up i like what more do you need what more do you need on october 25th 2002 after putting 849 exhibits into evidence the prosecution rested its case did they just take a nap after i think they were just like we're gonna show you every so much fucking evidence that there's not a chance in hell that you think these guys didn't do it.

I mean, the only thing better would be if they had video of them doing the crimes. I mean, they had everything short of that, I think. Yeah. And in the face of all that evidence, the defense looked pretty weak. looked pretty weak. Jonathan's defense attorney entered an unused Amtrak ticket into evidence. What?

And said that Jonathan had been scheduled to catch a train at the time of the quadruple homicide. But it was unused. It was unused! He hadn't gotten on the train! I feel like that's almost proof.

That he did do it! No, he offered up an explanation, Kristen. You see, he had gotten lost leaving Wichita on his way to the Amtrak station. And so he'd missed his train. Give me a... Got lost. That was literally the only defense Jonathan Carr's attorney put in for him. After he entered that unused ticket into evidence

he rested well you know there's not a lot you can do what can you do in that situation like well my client says he didn't and uh yeah I don't know Reginald Carr's attorney wanted to enter testimony that Jonathan had told Reginald that he was with a man that night that was tripping and shooting people. But this was deemed ineligible hearsay. Okay. So he didn't get to testify to that. And this freaking defense attorney wanted to put Reginald Carr on the stand to testify this information that's just a fucking disaster waiting to happen but i will say this when when the prosecution has laid out all that evidence that's true yeah you know yeah what's what's the harm exactly you're gonna look more guilty yeah what are

you gonna show up show an unused amtrak ticket like you're screwed anyway either way um additionally reginald's defense tried to enter medical records into evidence that they believed suggested ann walenta had died from medical malpractice rather than the shooting shooting but the judge also denied that yeah and like i'm sorry yeah when you've been caught for murdering that many people yeah taking one murder charge isn't going to make that much of a difference and also why the hell was she in the hospital in the first place she shot her exactly yeah they're trying to use the fact that she survived in the hospital for several days as like evidence that like, oh, she didn't die directly from the shooting. These are just good guys here. In an odd move.

Oh, my God. Lay it on me. Reginald's attorney replayed for the jury Jane Do doe's interview with the police oh well without could not have helped without any explanation before resting it's believed that he was trying to draw attention to jane's vague description of reginald that night okay but this point was not clearly made to the jury and And several jurors looked distressed over having to re-hear this awful account

of the night's events. What was this man thinking? I mean, I understand this idea that maybe they've got the wrong guy here. Yeah. But you just want to show us

that snippet of her. Just, you know, if all she can say is tall African-American man, then, you know, he's got a good point. Yeah. No, you don't do the entire thing. Oh, my. Yeah.

In closing arguments, the prosecution told the jury, this is a crime driven by greed and lust, by selfishness, and driven by twisted sexual gratification. Just as Kristen requested. Yeah, oh my god. I am so sorry. I will never say anything again. Ever. In their closing arguments, defense attorneys for each Carr brother tried to point the finger at the other.

Oh god. Jonathan's attorney reminded the jury of the other oh god jonathan's attorney reminded the jury of the inability of several witnesses to positively id his client don't just go back there and check the box guilty on all counts please consider jonathan's guilt and innocence separate from the damning evidence against his brother, Reginald. It's like, there's also damning evidence against Jonathan. Yeah. Yeah. Because Jonathan's DNA is the one that was found inside the rape victims.

Yes. Sorry, you're caught. Yeah. The defense tried to bring on a DNA expert who said that because they're brothers, wouldn't their DNA be really similar? And how could you tell for sure which brother it belonged to? But that expert did not stand up to cross-examination. Has this expert ever seen Dateline? Right.

Like the only rule is like twins. Twins? Yeah. Okay. But brothers, no. No. You can totally tell totally tell yeah they should have had me come up there on november 4th 2002 the jury deliberated for 15 reached a verdict how long was deliberation it was uh longer than you would think but they also were deciding on 113 counts. So I imagine just filling out that jury form would have taken.

You got to check a lot of boxes. That's right. Jonathan and Reginald were convicted on almost all counts. I believe the official count was Reginald was convicted on 50 counts. And Jonathan was convicted on 43. Among the convictions were multiple counts of capital murder, aggravated kidnapping, aggravated robbery,

rape, and animal cruelty. They acquitted Jonathan of the four charges of kidnapping and robbery against Andrew Schreiber. So the jury did not believe that they proved that Jonathan was there that night as well. Because remember, Andrew Schreiber never ID'd him as one of the men. Oh, you're talking about the first guy. The first guy.

Okay, okay. Yeah, the first guy. I thought Andrew was one of the guys. No, no, no. He was the first guy that lived. Yeah. Gotcha. Now it was time.

What the fuck? Was it the mailman this time? I'm sure it was. Christ on a cracker. I wish you weren't doing such an upsetting one, too, because I jump out of my skin every time. I'm waiting on something important. Oh. Yesterday, I ordered a bikini, and I got it in i was super excited i opened the package

it's the bikini top and a pair of hideous flip-flops that are too small for me no bottom where's the bottom yeah exactly is it coming in a separate package yeah so they no they i called them and they were like oops we'll send you the bottoms can you please send us back our hideous they want theops? They want the flip-flops back? I was like, fine. Yeah, I kind of thought, like, they're really ugly flip-flops. I really thought they'd just be like, we'll cut our losses. Yeah, it's kind of bad customer service.

They really should not make you ship back the flip-flops. I was just like, okay. Well, they said I could either bring them in or ship them back. I was like, oh, I'll come in, you know? Wow. Yeah. Back to the murder, Kristen. Let's talk more about my missing bikini bottom.

How important is it to wear the bikini bottom on the beach? It's very important if you ask SpongeBob. Because he's from Bikini Bottom. It's a SpongeBob joke. I'm too old for SpongeBob. And and i hate to say it so are you you didn't know spongebob is from bikini bottom no all i know is he lives in a pineapple under the sea in bikini bottom okay so now it was time for the jury to decide what punishment the Carr brothers would face life or death during the penalty phase the defense called several witnesses to shine a light

on the brothers formative years they had to have had the worst childhood ever. Janice Harding, the men's mother, said her sons grew up without warmth and affection. I'm not a huggy, kissy person, she told the jury. Wow. She also testified that their house was filled with violence, first by the hands of their father, then by her in retaliation for that abuse. And then by her second husband. Ugh. A forensic psychologist testified that Reginald's experience with sex, drugs, and violence began as early as six years old. Oh, no. When he was exposed to pornographic pictures of his mother.

Oh, no. I mean, that's terrible. Well, you had to know from these crimes oh yeah these these guys yeah they were messed up from a young age oh no another psychologist testified that jonathan's upbringing combined the five h's which i never heard of this before no the five h's are hopeless homeless helpless hungry and hugless oh i know that's really sad the hugless gets yeah um he said that childhood left him and his brother so void of empathy and attachment that they could do this to other people the psychologist did admit that jonathan without a doubt knew the difference between right and wrong. He just lacked the ability to care.

Speaking for the prosecution, both Andrew Schreiber and Jane Doe gave victim impact statements. Andrew told the jury that he suffers from survivor's guilt since he lived and so many others did not, and that he's constantly survivor's guilt since he lived and so many others did not. And that he's constantly reminded of the trauma he suffered because he still lives in Wichita. So he sees the places that he was taken on a regular basis. Oh, boy. That would be really tough. Yeah.

Because he was driven all around town. Jane Doe spoke clearly and eloquently to the jury. I speak on behalf of Brad, Aaron, Heather, Ann, Andy, Jason, and myself. She told them how her life had been forever changed by the acts of two soulless monsters. life had been forever changed by the acts of two soulless monsters. Every day there is a memory or a scar that reminds me of that night, she testified. I wake up in sweats from my nightmares. I pace at night because of noises that I think are somebody breaking into my house.

And every morning I carefully blow dry my hair to cover up the spot that can no longer grow hair i look at my knees and see scars from the carpet burns that i got from the rape and in the back of my mind i wonder if it will happen again yeah i there's not enough therapy in the world. No. No. In closing, the defense asked the jury to extend mercy to Reginald and Jonathan Carr that they did not extend to their victims. The prosecution asked the jurors not to be guided by sympathy, stating, You can't blame your family for what went wrong in your life. I agree you can't blame others. Yeah, but they were exposed to some pretty terrible stuff in their formative years, for sure.

That's what I'm saying. You can't dismiss that. That's not a normal childhood. Yeah, it's not. And you can't expect people who were treated that way or raised that way to grow up to be normal humans yeah the jurors deliberated for seven hours what do you think they recommended i mean

they probably recommended the death penalty right yeah they did yeah they recommended the death penalty, right? Yeah, they did. Yeah. They recommended the death penalty, and the Carr brothers declined to deliver an allocution seeking leniency or offering additional mitigating circumstances. The judge formally sentenced them to death on November 14, 2002. The Carr brothers appealed their sentence, though.

And on July 5th, 2014, the Kansas Supreme Court overturned their death sentences on appeal due to the fact that the judge did not allow for separate penalty phases for the two defendants. So the Kansas Supreme Court said it was fine to have them tried together. Sure. But you should have had separate penalty phases because they weren't convicted of exactly the same charges. Yeah, I think that's fair. They also overturned three of the four capital murder convictions because of errors and redundancies in the way they were charged. Wait, are we talking like paperwares? Oh my, oh geez. New sentencing trials were ordered. The Kansas Attorney General, though, appealed this ruling to the United States. Supreme Court!

Ons to, ons to, ons to. If only you guys could see my sweet dance moves and in january of 2016 with an eight to one ruling they reinstated the death sentences wow justice sonia sotomayor okay was the lone dissenter and justice antonin scalia wrote the opinion It was actually the last opinion he wrote before his death. Yeah. And Justice Sotomayor actually dissented, not totally in disagreement of what the other justices said. She actually just thought that they shouldn't have heard the argument at all. She didn't think that it was, it was.

Okay, Sonia, you're kind of splitting hairs there, but all right. Reginald and Jonathan Carr are currently on death row at El Dorado alongside your buddy, John Robinson. Do not call him my buddy. So I looked into this a little bit because I was interesting how death row works yeah sorry i said that really far away from the microphone brandy's trying to get better about not like leaning back in her chair like she's in an easy boy recliner away from the mic sorry um hey the most important thing is that you're comfortable you want to go into the other room? Grab yourself a drink. Let's keep talking. So they don't actually have a death row at the prison in El Dorado. I guess I'm a very literal person.

I thought they. Yeah, they don't. There's actually no death row accommodations. Death row inmates are just held in solitary confinement there yeah and have which is basically the same as a death row in places that actually have it they get one hour outside of their cells i think solitary confinement is the worst yeah they also they have the cells are small like eight by ten or something like that um but each cell does actually have a phone, but,

um, so that they can make phone calls, but phone calls are very expensive, like 18 cents a minute or something like that. So it adds up very quickly. So they can just call out. Yeah. I mean,

it's all recorded as we learned from your idiot case that you did. How dare you? Keep talking and you'll be the next hole, Brandi. The likelihood of the Carr brothers ever being put to death is extremely slim. Yeah, Kansas is not that kind of state. Kansas has not put anyone to death since 1965. For reference. Okay. That is the same year that Dick Hickok and Perry Smith were put to death.

They were convicted of the murder of the Clutter family. Oh, yeah. Oh, in cold blood. In cold blood. Yes. Yes. Okay. I was like, you were giving me this look like you know what I'm talking about. Yeah.

Okay. So in 1965, like four people were put to death. Yeah. yes okay i was like you were giving me this look like you know what i'm talking about yeah okay so in 1965 like four people were put to death and two of them were the men from that killed the clutter family yeah which if you guys don't know what we're talking about truman capote wrote an amazing book about it yeah held in cold blood oh my gosh yeah that we should do that case too yeah absolutely so no one has been put to death since then there's currently i believe nine people on kansas's death row there is a bit of a silver lining at the end of this horrific case uh i would love to hear it. Andrew Schreiber and Jane Doe, as the only survivors of the Wichita Horror, became quite close throughout all of the proceedings. And in 2004, they were married.

Wow. Today, they have two children. Oh, my God. And live in the Kansas City area. What? Yeah. That's amazing. Is that not amazing?

That is the coolest What? Yeah. That's amazing. Is that not amazing? That is the coolest thing. Yeah. That, okay, that is a huge silver lining. I mean, that's, it's a big silver lining.

Wow. Yeah. Yup. And that's the, that's, man, all the best to those two. That's the case of the Wichita horror,

Kristen. Okay. That's the case of the Wichita horror, Kristen. Okay, that was terrible. Yeah. I can't believe I'd never heard of that. It's pretty fucking terrible. Yeah, so, um, a couple of the articles that I read about this were like, this case is largely unknown outside of Kansas. And it is such a horrific case that that seems crazy.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just the inhumanity of that. That's just horrible. Yeah. I cannot believe she survived that. Yeah.

And I want to know everything about that barrette. Yes. I mean, that company that made that barrette should be using that as their fucking slogan. It'll stop a bullet. Okay, well, that was really good. I brought it up there at the end, slightly. Is that not amazing that they're married? That, you know, again, if it were in a movie, I'd be like, I don't buy it't there's no fucking way that would happen that's amazing yeah that's amazing yeah okay chandra levy oh my gosh this is a big

one yes so how familiar are you hmm fairly familiar i figured this would be one you would know pretty well so this one the vast majority i'm gonna i'm giving credit to this washington post series so these three reporters spent a year going over the case they did this in like 2008 and this whole thing started in 2001. So they just like they were a new set of reporters that were put on this case to look over like what what errors were made. Why is this still unsolved? Because for a while. Yeah. Yeah.

The vast majority of what I'm reading to you is basically their article. Yeah. And it's a 12-part series. It is so damn good. How long is this going to be? 12-part series, Kristen. Buckle up. Buckle up.

Should I get some popcorn? You should get popcorn. You should... Go ahead and kick back that Lazy Boy. Put it on your adult diaper. Oh, no. on your adult diaper oh no so on sunday may 6 2001 robert levy called washington dc police he was very worried so he lived in california but his 24 year old daughter lived in D.C. She was an intern at the Federal Bureau of Prisons.

He hadn't heard from her in five days. The last time they'd communicated was when she emailed him the flight info for her trip back home. But she hadn't come back home. And I believe she was flying home for her graduation, for her master's program. So this was very odd. And she wasn't answering the phone. This was not like her at all. She was seven months into her internship.

She was days away from graduating with a master's degree in public administration from the University of Southern California. It was not like her to just drop off the case like that. Detective Ralph Durant was on the case. Worth noting, he didn't have a lot of homicide experience. Because I guess in this area, that just didn't happen much. But he was a memorable dresser. He wore parachute pants, cowboy boots, and he had a ponytail. Wow. Which I'm wondering,

like, I don't, I've got so many questions about that, but we don't have time. So he goes to Chandra's apartment, and of course she's not there, but he doesn't see anything suspicious either. It's just a regular nice apartment. Officers came back to the apartment several days in a row, but Chandra was never there. And the stuff inside the apartment remained untouched. Meanwhile, Chandra's parents, Robert and Susan, are really freaking out. They start going through Chandra's cell phone bill, trying to find evidence of, you know, anything. Yeah. And there was one number that kept popping up. It was the number

for married Democratic Congressman Gary Condit. Eventually, they got on the phone together, and Robert leveled with him. He was like, look, I'm the father of Chandra Levy, and she's missing. Can you help? And Gary was like, oh, wow, you know, Chandra was good friends with one of my former interns. I'll do anything I can. In fact, if you need money for a reward for information, I'll happy to contribute robert ended that phone call with a really weird bad feeling he told susan i think chandra might be dating that guy the next day he called detective durant and said hey i think chandra

and gary and gary condit had some sort of affair. Chandra's aunt confirmed that feeling. Chandra had apparently told her she was dating Gary Condit. I don't know if she said Gary Condit or just like implied that he was an important congressman. Yeah. So the aunt called Detective Durant and told him everything she knew. So the detective calls Gary Condit. And Gary's like, well, what? No, I mean, like she called me and asked for career advice. But you know,

I haven't talked to her for like a week. By this point, police have a warrant to do an in-depth search of Chandra's apartment. They go in, look at everything. They listen to her voicemails. By this point, the voicemail box is full. There are two voicemails from Gary Condit. They were placed a few days after she disappeared. And in the messages, he just seemed concerned because he hadn't heard from her. They're like, okay, interesting that that he called then a police sergeant

discovered her laptop he turned the computer on starts trying to look through the search history and somehow he corrupted the search history on her computer what i i mean i don't know how he did it i don't know if he like oops butterfingers deleted or but at any rate thanks to that mistake it took police a month to recover her search history when they did they discovered that on the day she went missing, she went to webpages for Gary Condit, Southwest Airlines, Amtrak, and Baskin Robbins. Then what Baskin Robbins has to do with it. This is why like, oh my God, like if I go missing and you find embarrassing stuff on my search history, just like don't look into it. I'm like, she's been obsessively looking at the menu at basket robbins for five days you think she just broke down and went

so then she checked the weather then at around noon she looked up the address for the clingle mansion which is this big i think it's like a three-story farmhouse and it's the headquarters for rock creek park so right away police are like okay was she meeting someone at the mansion hey gary condit lives close to rock creek park how did she meet him there i'm not sure but close enough that they were kind of like it's believable that if they wanted to meet up maybe they met up there like close do you think close enough that it is like legitimate or like they're fishing for a connection either way is possible okay because i i don't know how close okay but i'm they definitely they were looking at him. Oh, for sure. Yeah. So they were really into that theory. And they spent days examining Klingle Mansion and the area around it.

But they also had another theory. What if she wasn't going specifically to Klingle Mansion? Because the webpage for the mansion also included information on hiking trails. Chandra loved to exercise. She loved to run. She just canceled her gym membership. Maybe she wanted to go outside for a run. They didn't pursue this one quite as much, though.

Okay. Police had other things to look into, like the security tapes at her building. Those tapes would tell them for sure what time she left, what she was wearing, whether she was alone. But obviously, apartment buildings don't keep those tapes forever. Yeah. Like waiting for law and order to show up. Right. And by the time detectives got around to asking for the tapes they'd already been recorded over which

i mean in a lot of cases it's like 48 hours later it records over okay yeah for some reason that's based on like one tv show i saw one time for some reason i thought with this one it was seven days could have been Hey, if we're just throwing numbers out there. Gary Condit lived 47 feet from Rock Hill Mansion or whatever it was. Gary Condit lived in the Klingle Mansion. So let's take a moment to talk about Gary Condit and Chandra Levy. Let's. Let's.

Gary Condit was a very successful politician. He was a Democrat, but he kind of went, he was known for kind of going rogue. For whatever reason, the dude had a picture of Newt Gingrich in his office. That's weird. I mean, that's not a face I want to look at. I don't care where you lean politically.

I can't imagine wanting a picture of that guy. And he was part of a handful of Democrats who was really hard on Bill Clinton about Monica Lewinsky. So early on in that scandal, he came out and was like, hey, Bill Clinton, if he's having an affair, he should just come out and admit it. This is ridiculous. Yeah.

That came out to bite to vitamin the ass later. Yeah. Should have taken his own advice is what I'm saying. Yeah. Chandra was completely charmed by Gary. She had a thing for older guys and she loved Harrison Ford. What? How old was she? I think sherison ford what how old was she i think she was 24 and how old was gary connor oh like 50s what do you think about that kristen um gross gross gross gross yuckadoo

it sure is it's now a phrase and it applies to when old men in positions of power go after the interns. Maybe she seduced him. We're going to learn more about Gary Conant and you tell me, okay? Am I going to come to regret that? Like you came to regret saying, I hope there's weird sex stuff? My main goal at this point is to make you regret things. And here's the other thing. So she loved older guys.

She loved Harrison Ford. And she thought Gary Condit looked like Harrison Ford. If I were Harrison Ford, I'd be very offended. Gary Condit did not look like Harrison Ford. Other than he's like 50-something and had gray hair. Yeah. Yeah, he's a white guy. had gray hair. Yeah. Yeah. He's a white guy.

That's where the resemblance ends. He's an old white guy with two legs. Yeah. He didn't have an earring. Nothing. He's not going to go. Gosh, if only I knew any Indiana Jones reference. Are you trying to make an Indiana Jones reference?

I'm trying. Going after that chalice. No way he's going to outrun that giant ball. Boulder. Yes. Thank you. No. So. I'm trying. Going after that chalice. No way he's going to outrun that giant ball. Boulder. Thank you. You didn't want to make a Star Wars reference? Oh, right. He was in Star Wars. Yeah.

Ask me anything. No way he's fathering Kylo Ren or whatever his name is. Is that his name? Yeah. Sure. You have no idea? No, I think it is Kylo Ren or whatever his name is. Is that his name? Yeah. Sure. You have no idea? No, I think it is Kylo Ren.

Okay. But here's the, in a lot of these articles, they refer to him as the handsome politician. I mean. Let me refresh my memory on what he looks like. Google Gary Condit and you tell me if you're turned on. Because I am not the i am not thinking that he's the looker that they're describing him as

definitely not no right he looks like jessica simpson's dad oh he does look kind of like jessica simpson's dad what are you doing spill Spill on yourself again? Sure did. No, this guy in no way looks like Harrison Ford. And he is. Yeah, give him a little frosted tips and he looks just like. Yeah, give that man a spray tan and some frost.

What's his name? Joe Simpson. Yeah. Why do I know this? I don't know. I don't know. of tips and he looks just like yep give that man a spray tan and some frost what's his name joe simpson yeah why do i know this i don't know i'm just waiting for trivia night this is the one area where i can contribute so chandra thought this relationship was really going places at At one point, she told her friend that her boyfriend, the congressman, was going to give up his political career, divorce his wife, become a lobbyist, marry her, and start a whole new family. Okay.

That's basically what the friend said. Yep. The friend was like, I think you're being very naive. Yeah, extremely naive but chandra was certain her boyfriend had reassured her that their relationship was the real deal i also think it's weird when like you're with a married guy and you call him your boyfriend i just like why am i getting upset with labels? Okay.

Moving on. So officers were really, would you rather she called them? I, her lover. No, I'd rather it just not happen. I think,

I think that's why I'm being like, okay, I need to shut up because like the reason I love her. No, no. The reason I'm grossed out is because i don't think this should happen at all i think if you're married you just shouldn't do that i think if you're in a position of power don't do it say it no well here's the thing i think most people know so i think it's just like do they know this is a super popular case just say something and

then come on say say what you want to say. I mean, yeah, I think he learned his lesson. This ruined his political career. Yeah. And turns out he wasn't doing much more than banging some 23 year old. Yeah. I mean. Yeah, it completely ruined him.

Yeah. OK, do you think we should not? I i don't know is it too much of a reveal or this early in i mean the thing is like i knew what had happened when i was reading all this yeah i mean i obviously know what happens i still find it interesting yeah i think it's very interesting okay how many people are like us though though? I don't know. That's my concern. Okay, you make the call. No, it's your case. I want you to make the call.

I think it's okay to leave it in, but if you think it takes something away, then... I don't think... Okay, everybody, here's the deal. I feel like a lot of people know this case well enough to know that Gary Condit was a huge suspect in this case. Yeah. Was like the number one suspect. Yeah. But really, from what we know now, what he was really guilty of was having an affair with an intern. And that's the extent of it.

So, with that, Brandy is unleashed. She's free to say whatever she wants to say because she's been holding back. I've been looking at you and you're like this whole time. And believe me, I mean, I think that might be the harshest way possible to learn your lesson about an affair. learn your lesson about an affair, Kristen, as you were just alluding to. That's what I kept thinking as I was reading this. Like, man, this guy really paid. I mean, for a long time. Yeah.

And you know what he's doing now? People thought this guy was a murderer. Yeah. Do you know what he's doing now? I don't. After this happened, he and his wife. Is he working at Baskin Robbins? Do you know this he's doing now? I don't. After this happened, he and his wife... Is he working at Baskin Robbins? Do you know this story?

No! Clearly not! After this happened, obviously his political career was ruined. Career was over? His wife stayed with him. Wow. Don't get that. But anyway, they moved to Arizona and they opened a Baskin Robbins franchise.

Shut your fucking mouth! I'm serious shut up but then it went out of business holy shit this is all stuff like i didn't i don't even have this in the script because it's like it's like totally ridiculous are you fucking kidding me yeah if memory serves they opened two baskin robbins in a. They like shut down. I think they got sued or something. Then he was like on the board of some other corporation, but that corporation has dissolved. Who knows what he's doing now? Holy shit.

Yeah. Oh, man. Wow. So do you think that it was secretly his dream all along to open a baskin robbins and that was the alternate life he was planning with chandra levy you know i do think it's super weird that she that was in her search history yeah and ice cream comes up again in this case it's i think this dude loved ice cream not that i'm holding it against him no this guy has suffered enough yeah he learned his lesson as you said so they looked into gary for months and gary was kind of evasive with them

i will say gary was dumb about this oh yeah very dumb i think he thought that somehow he could like control the narrative too long in politics not a lot enough time in ice cream so they pressed him and he said that he and chandra were friends and that they well here's the thing he said they were friends and that they'd spent the night together a few times no did you do like a winky face when he did it uh basically listen to this line of dialogue if you know what i mean so after hearing that a sergeant asked did you have an intimate relationship with miss levy and gary said i don't think we need to go there and you can infer what you want with that so to

me that's a yes that's a yes that's like a double wing well seriously yeah what is it yeah and once you've said that why not just be like yes yes we were having an intimate relationship it was a mistake yeah i'm not a murderer yeah i mean this dude like did not know the stakes clearly but you know what i think that goes back to the cases like we talk about all the time where people are truly innocent and they think you know well i'm innocent so i'm not gonna get in trouble yeah and i can just say oh yeah and i still i mean obviously this is different than the other case we talked about but i still have my political career to think about right now. Yeah. So I need to be as evasive about this as possible. Yeah.

Deny, deny, deny. Yeah. But I'm good because I didn't murder anybody. Yeah. That's the kind of logic that has you scooping Rocky Road. Dream job. Unlimited waffle cones. That's right.

You get to try the new flavor of the month before everybody else. Man. Brandy, let's go to Arizona. They have Baskin Robbins here. We don't have to go all the way to Arizona for that. Oh, okay. I just figured since they moved out of California, we had to also make a move. So pretty soon the FBI gets involved.

Agent Jack Barrett was on the case, and he heard several stories about Gary being involved with women. One woman said that when she was in her early 20s working as one of his junior aides, they had a three-year-long affair. She said that he was charming, but also manipulative and controlling, and she was very concerned about Chandra. There was another woman named Anne Marie Smith. Rhee Smith. She was a flight attendant and met Gary on a flight when he offered her his phone number and some of his power bar. She thought he was charming and she said that he told her that their relationship could last forever as long as she never told anyone about it. But-hmm. But then, in mid-May, 2001,

after Chandra went missing, he asked her not to call him for a while. She said, what's going on? Is it your family? Is it your job? And he said,

no, I can't tell you. I may have to disappear for a while. What? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Which, again, while what yeah which again to what we were talking about like i think in that moment he probably makes it look like you're guilty of murder yes yes i mean like it's just so but i i think knowing what we know now maybe he was was just like, you know, we got to lay low.

I can't be like screwing around like I was before. You can't have my power bar anymore. I'm cutting you off from the power bar. Gross. Meanwhile, Chandra's parents are beside themselves. They're worried sick and they're angry because the media at this point was not paying a lot of attention to the story. And police didn't seem to know their ass from their elbow. So Robert and Susan decided to do something about it.

These two sound amazing, by the way. So they reached out to a nonprofit group which organized a candlelit vigil. Wow. That was covered by the media. They passed out chandra's favorite candy reese's peanut butter cups then they flew out to washington dc and they talked to police a lot of people don't think to hand out treats at a vigil i think it humanizes when absolutely when you say like this is this was their favorite color this was their favorite food

this you know it humanizes them. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's really smart. Yeah. They met with their state senators. They held a press conference. Dateline did a story. CNN did a story. It was all of a sudden very much in the news.

The story was everywhere. Not everyone knew about the relationship between Chandra and Gary. But the rumors were out there. Yeah. And Gary's camp tried to shut that shit down. Mm-hmm. His chief of staff told reporters that a relationship between the two of them, quote, totally did not occur. Okay.

Dum-dum-dum-dum-dum. Just terrible moves. I'm telling you, he should have taken his own advice. If you had the affair, just say you had the affair. Say you had the affair. Oh, boy. Man, in this case, fucking having an affair

is way better than fucking murdering somebody. This is Brandy's chart of crimes. this is Brandy's chart of crimes. I do think we need to have you like, yeah, like on the scale. I mean,

dog, dog killings, pretty high up there. What's worse, dog killing or human killing? Don't make me talk. I mean, I know what you think,

but will you say it out loud? They are horrible in their own ways. Dogs? Murders of both humans and dogs. What? How dare you make me? We all know how you feel. No. Oh, no, we know how you feel. No.

Oh, no, we don't? Nope. Okay. I am leaving it up to mystery. You sound like Gary Condit right now. I know! Yes, I love dogs. Yes, I have dogs.

I also love humans. I'll let you infer what you will. I know! So, Chandra's family starts talking. They're comparing notes. She told a few people that she was dating someone important. She wasn't big on naming names, though. Susan told police that Chandra told her she was dating someone, but wouldn't say who. All she'd say was,

he's highly visible. You'll understand in five years. What does that mean? To me, it means, oh, within five years time, He's going to be huge. No, he's going to divorce his wife, and we're going to be with this new... Yeah.

So they were on a five-year plan. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So they were on a five-year plan. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. At this point, it's May 18th, and the FBI forms a task force. They had a list of suspects, some of them from Chandra's gym, some of them from her internship at the Bureau of Prisons, and one of her guy friends and some of his roommates,

who she'd recently hung out with. They interviewed a bunch of people, polygraphed a bunch of people, but none of it went anywhere. Everyone passed the polygraph. Everyone had an alibi. That just left Gary Condit. Around this time, an assistant police chief told the Washington Post that Chandra had gone to Gary's apartment, quote, more than a couple times.

Later, the police chief tried to backtrack and be like, oh, no, he was just talking about a rumor, you know, kind of nothing's confirmed. So like this story is getting out there, but the police are kind of like stuff's getting leaked. You know, it's just kind of a mess. Then police searched the woods near Gary's apartment. And of course, the media noticed that like they were camped out. But the police were like, oh, the location of these searches doesn't have anything to do with the congressman. Gary Condit is not a suspect. Everybody be cool.

Too fucking late. Yeah. But everybody was like, yeah, OK, this guy looks guilty. It is not a suspect everybody be cool too fucking late yeah but everybody was like yeah okay this guy looks guilty and no one was more suspicious than robert and susan levy yeah on june 14th they held a press conference to publicly ask gary condit to tell police whatever he knew. Wow. Yeah. I love them.

I think they did as good a job as you can do. Absolutely. They also hired a lawyer, William, a.k.a. Billy Martin. Billy Martin had a big reputation in Washington. He immediately set up an 800 number for people to call in with tips. And he was like, hey, by the way, police, I'm also going to be conducting my own investigation. Wow. Try to keep up.

Yeah. Meanwhile, Gary Condon is like, oh, shit. This is getting real bad. So he also gets a lawyer. He hires Abe Lowell, who was known for- Abe Blowhole? No. Lowell.

L-O-W-E-L-L. Didn't that sound like blowhole? I don't know what it sounded like. Abe Lowell. Yes. Got it. So he was known for defending very powerful people. For example, he led the efforts to stop Bill Clinton from being impeached.

Wow. Yeah. So the police are under a ton of pressure right now. And they tell people, look, one of three things happened to Chandra. She ran away. She committed suicide. Or she fell victim to foul play these are all equally likely we're not leaning in any direction okay you got these three possibilities then they released a i mean is there anything they're making a great statement there isn't

that anybody who's missing they either went willingly and killed themselves or someone did something to them. Yeah. Wow. That's great insight. I wonder if maybe at this point they were kind of like, we don't have anything on Gary Condit. Everyone's leaning toward him. Maybe we need to try to like force people not to go down this road. Yeah.

That's the only thing i think of then they released a picture of her with four hideous new hairstyles for people to identify her okay picture this so you know how chandra levy looked like she had the big curly curly hair yeah dark so i guess you know under this guise that maybe she ran away and changed her hair they used their 2001 computer technology to like photoshop shop on different hairstyles oh my gosh it looked stupid so like in one they gave her like this short cropped afro what the fuck yeah as if like... Is this available? Try, I don't know. It is so stupid. Oh my God, I found it. Google Chandra Levy poster different hairstyles.

It's the second thing that pops up. It is legit. Like, they should have been embarrassed to put this out there oh okay oh my god yeah what are they doing as if anyone would do that to their hair. What are they doing? Should we try to describe these? Like one looks like she has a mullet. One is like a flat on top, party in the back mullet. One is like an afro. One is an afro with bangs.

Yeah, that's the only difference between it and the other one. And then the last one is... It looks like an 80s rocker so it's like blonde feathered and she's in black and white when it comes to that so that's the ridiculous poster they released for people to like check out like That's the ridiculous poster they released for people to check out. That is ridiculous. What cracks me up is last week, or no, I guess it was two weeks ago, we talked about how we would disguise ourselves if we committed a crime and we discovered that you would not do a damn thing

because you love the blue in your hair. That's right. I would love to see the poster they'd do up for you. Man, be rough. It'd just be four different pictures of you with the exact same hair. And they'd be like, she's too vain. She's not changing it. Just with a hat on, different hats.

I mean, you'd look a lot like this afro do if you cut your hair that short. Yeah, it would not be good. I mean, if you're choosing between the two afro bangs, it's definitely the way to go. Why would you, I mean, if you're choosing between the two, Afro bangs is definitely the way to go. Why would you? I mean. Well, if these are the limited options, you go to, you know, the secret fugitive barbershop. Again, just my recommendation.

You're trying to blend in. You're trying to run away. You don't give yourself an Afro if you're a white woman. You've got it in your jeans, though. Kristen, your dad had a pretty sweet white man afro. Okay. And you know what? I bet he would share that on our social media.

My dad had red hair. Yeah. Like Ronald McDonald. And it was a look dad had red hair. Yeah. Like Ronald McDonald. It was a look is what it was. Yep. Afro, no bangs. Yeah. Okay, should we get back to this?

Yeah. Okay. So the Levees hear this and they're like, you've got to be kidding. Chandra did not run away. She did not commit suicide. Something bad happened.

So investigators are looking into these three possibilities. And Susan Levy is like, that's it. I need to talk to Gary Condit face to face. He knows something. So her lawyer reaches out to his lawyer and the four of them agree to meet in a secret meeting in the jefferson hotel which is a few blocks away from the white house susan and gary meet he tries to shake her hand but she refuses right off the bat, she's like, this dude does not look like Harrison Ford. With you, Susan.

So they talked, and he was adamant that he had no idea where Chandra was. But Susan had this nagging feeling that he knew more than he was saying. At the end of the meeting, he asked if he could hug her. And she said, absolutely not. Fuck no, creepo. Yeah yeah this guy's a this guy's a weirdo who the hell first of all i can understand trying to shake someone's hand but like after all that and you know what you did you know like i mean you didn't kill her but you know what you did and this is her mother oh yeah i'm sure she wants to hug you dude then it was investigators turn to meet with gary he was there with his lawyer and his lawyer

told them look assume that gary and chandra had a relationship but don't go crazy with off-topic questions about the relationship yeah so the interview was mostly about where Gary was between April 28th and May 3rd. And Gary said, I didn't see her that entire time. He went through each day listing what he'd done and who he'd seen. He said that on May 1st, the day Chandra disappeared, he left his apartment at around 11 a.m. and worked until 6.30. That afternoon, he met with Dick Cheney. What? Hell of an alibi.

Yeah. Afterward, he went out to dinner. Meanwhile, the public was fascinated. Psychics started calling in with theories, and police actually followed up on some of them. But of course, they led nowhere. In the midst of all this, investigators didn't do much with another lead in the case.

Inmar Wandike was a 19-year-old undocumented immigrant from El Salvador. He had a history of domestic violence. He'd come to the United States for work, but by the spring of 2001, he'd pretty much given up. Instead, he drank a bunch and hung out in Rock Creek Park. Yeah, huh? You look real good right now, I gotta say.

I really like guys that drink a lot and hang out next to running trails yeah on may 7th he broke into the apartment of tomasa oriana he took some of her stuff but she got home earlier than he anticipated and she spotted him crouched in the corner of her bedroom oh my freaking die oh god i oh man i would lose my mind okay so that makes me think of that i survived story do you ever watch the show i survived every now and then so this woman is like getting out of the shower she's home alone no and she's going like to her closet to get her robe or whatever and she sees like a out of the shower. She's home alone. And she's going like to her closet to get her robe or whatever. And she sees like a reflection in the mirror.

And there's a man dressed as a ninja crouched in the corner of her fucking bathroom. I would fucking die. Like he wouldn't have to kill me. I would just drop dead right then. Oh yeah, that is scary as hell. So she sees him crouch down in the corner of her bedroom. She screams and he took off.

But the thing was, she recognized him from like hanging out around the neighborhood. So police caught him a few blocks away. He had a gold wedding band, which came from her apartment. They booked him, and he was released later that day. He was told to return on May 29th for his court date. A week later, he was hanging out in Rock Creek Park. That's when he spotted Haley Schilling. creek park oh that's when he spotted hayley schilling she was a tall blonde aspiring writer who enjoyed running outdoors what the fuck aka christian pitts i was freaking out

yeah no word on her ear aka christian caruso.A. Christian Caruso? Question mark? It might be. Okay. My dad and I talked about it. My dad was like, I think you should go with Christian Caruso. Then Norman dropped a bombshell on me. He was like, I always kind of liked it that you had, like, your own last name. I thought it was kind of cool.

Oh, he doesn't want you riding his wave. Riding the Caruso wave. Too too damn bad i'm on it anyway now back to this like serious sorry so so she's me um and at about 6 30.m., she went out for a run with her Walkman on. At some point on her run, she noticed Inmar sitting on a curb in a nearby parking lot. What she didn't notice was that he followed her into the park, and he followed her for a mile. At some point, she realized someone was behind her but thought it was another jogger who just wanted to pass so she slows down to let the person pass and instead he jumps on her and grabs her throat she started screaming but by this point it was rush hour no one could hear her she saw his knife and immediately thought of a move that she learned in self-defense class. She jammed her fingers into his mouth, dug her nails under his tongue, and he bit her, but she was like, uh-uh, and kept going.

And then he let go of her and ran away. Is everyone taking notes? Yeah. Jam your fingers into it. Yeah. How does it feel? Does it feel terrible? I'm not digging my nails in.

Well, do it enough to know. Oh my God. That was disgusting. I mean, I could get you a tissue. You don't have to slop her up your jeans. Wiped it on my jeans. Yeah, I think that would not feel great.

Here we go. So he let go of her and ran away. She immediately reported the incident to the police. Is your mouth okay? Yeah, I'm just thinking about that. That is really soft under there. Yeah. Huh.

And she said, hey, I don't think he was just there to rob me. No! She said if he wanted my Walkman or my huge engagement ring, he could have... She was running with a giant engagement ring on? I mean, I go running with my wedding ring on. What, are you supposed to strip naked? I can't even talk to you about this. Seriously?

You think I should be taking off my wedding ring when I run? Do I think that you should yes do i think it's terrible that that's the society we live in also yes okay do you think i should run with like a fake mustache on so maybe people will think i'm a dude i don't think anybody's gonna think you're a dude when you're running in like your spandex pants he's gonna stuff it with a sock or something who's that very well-endowed man so you know she's like i don't think he was there to rob me. If he wanted to rob me, I think he could have. I think he wanted to murder me or rape me. Yeah.

That's what I think. Yes. Then seven weeks later, Christy Wiegand and her. I have no idea how to pronounce her last name. We're going to go with Wiegand. Great. And her fiance decided to go for a run in Rock Creek Park. Christy was very tall and blonde and she just graduated from Cornell Law and she was going to get married in about a month.

Her fiance ran off ahead of her. What the fuck is he doing? Sometimes people do that, like they all go at their own pace. Randy! Sometimes people do that. Like, they all go at their own pace. Randy! Thoughts? Comments? Concerns? It's his fault.

What? Just kidding! I'm totally kidding! So, he runs off ahead of her. At some point on her run, Christy realized that someone was behind her. The man grabbed her. They fought. He pulled a knife on her and, Christy realized that someone was behind her. The man grabbed her. They fought. He pulled a knife on her and held it to her chin.

He told her to shut up, and she did. But as soon as he let his guard down, she fought again and screamed again, and it scared him. So he ran off into the woods. What? Yeah. Christy ran up to the road and flagged down a driver. The driver took her to the police and flagged down a driver. The driver took her to the police station where she described her attacker.

I'm sorry. What time period are we at in reference to when Chandra Levy goes missing? I believe we're in a few weeks after. Because I believe we're in, let's see. Okay, so May 7thth he broke into the apartment i think chandra went missing may 1st what are you thinking uh that they were spending too much time looking into gary condon and they miss this connection. I think that it's kind of weird. Like if at this point he's already murdered someone,

I think it's kind of. Oh, that's true because he should be better at this. I would think so. If he's already been successful. Yeah, I mean. Right? And I kind of get the like, she's got, you know, the first one, like, she had her fingers under his tongue. You know, maybe he was. But even then, like, this woman, it seemed like she just kind of scared him.

I don't know. I think that's kind of weird. Mm-hmm. That is weird. Anyway. Oh, no. Are we, like, what? anyway um oh no are we like what are we introducing some doubt into uh i think this is super interesting i've i've got a lot i've got some conspiracy theories to you you got your tin foil hat on i kind of do. Okay. She describes her attacker to the police. 45 minutes later,

they pick the guy up. His clothes were wet. He was covered in leaves. Christy immediately was like, yep, that's him. It was Ingmar Wondike. So police take him into custody and they have a translator there. And Ingmar says he'll talk to them. He waives his right to an attorney and he tells the police, I did not assault anyone. But Detective Joe Green was like, well, OK, OK. Is it possible that maybe there was some misunderstanding? And then Ingmar is like, well, yeah, actually, it was. It was a misunderstanding.

So here's what happened. I accidentally bumped into a woman at the park today see my knee hurt so i bent over to massage it and she ran into me and we tumbled off the trail together and i tried to help her but she freaked out so i just ran all fucking shit ing ingmar. Brandy. Detective Green is like, okay. And by the way, of course, the detective is like, beautiful. Yep. Say you were there. Say you were, you know, like, tell me whatever bullshit story.

Yeah, we've just confirmed you were at the scene. So the detective's like, hey, she said you had a knife, though. And Ingmar is like, oh, okay. Well, I had a gold bracelet on. Maybe she saw that and mistook it for a knife. Like she saw the glint on it. No. Yeah.

Not buying it. I can't count on all my fingers and toes how many times I've mistaken a bracelet for a knife. So the detectives are eating this up. They're like, keep talking, keep talking. They said, hey, have you ever accidentally bumped into any other women at the park? For example, Hayley Schilling? Yep. And eventually Ingmar was like, yeah.

He said that he was out at the park, saw a woman running, and that she turned and saw him and fell and he tried to help her up but she just screamed and ran off no he's just a good guy brandy just don't understand then detective green pulled out a photo of chandra levy and he said have you ever seen this woman and ingmar said yeah once but he said he only saw her once and never saw her again yeah he saw her the one time he murdered her and then never again so here's the part that makes me want to rip the hair out of my head and neck area detective detective green didn't include that part in his report what the part about chandra he didn't

include that in part in the in his report didn't tell any other officers about it um he said he was too focused on the other two assaults and when he was asked later he said quote it wasn't mine to pursue what the fuck does that mean i take it as like that's a different case this is a whole other case that's going on maybe it's not in my jurisdiction i good god wow yeah so now it's early july 2001 nobody really knows about ingmar. People are still focused on Gary Condit. Understandably. The flight attendant, who said she'd been having an affair with him, came forward.

She told Fox News that a Condit representative had tried to get her to sign an affidavit saying that she hadn't had any sort of relationship with him. What? But she refused. Yeah. had any sort of relationship with him. What? But she refused.

Yeah. Condit later denied both the affair and the story about the affidavit. Of course he did. God, this guy. Just tell the fucking truth. Know what the stakes are, man. This is like what it reminds me of. It's like a fucking movie

where someone's gotten themselves in like a little bit of a sticky situation. And so they just keep lying when it would just be fucking easier yeah to just tell the truth they're like hey we'll be mad for five minutes yep and then you fucking move on with life and maybe you'd still have a political career but those denials didn't help no people were fired up for the first time in 20 years gary skipped the fourth of july parade in modesto california come on gary people showed up to the parade with pictures of chandra

and some of them wore yellow ribbons yeah oh god stop then what sorry i just had to see how long you'd let me make that noise not long it was too long oh it's my fault that you made an annoying noise no it's not your fault that i made the noise but it's your fault that I continued to make it and you weren't like, shut the fuck up. Okay, I'm going to get like a little paint gun or something for next time. I love it. No, I'm going to jam my fingers into your mouth under the tongue. You saw how much slobber came out when I did that to myself, so beware. You think you slobber even more on me?

I don't know. Blah, blah, blah. you think you slobber even more on me i don't know uh blah blah the next day chandra's aunt um sorry i tried to be fancy aunt linda talked to the media she said that chandra had visited her for thanksgiving and passover and that they'd talked about her affair with gary condit chandra told Linda that Gary kept cactus in his apartment and that he loved Ben and Jerry's chocolate chip cookie dough. See, again, with the ice cream. This dude likes ice cream. Super into ice cream. She said that Gary had given her Godiva chocolates

and a gold bracelet. And he told her that he had a five-year plan for her. And that in those five years, he would leave his wife and start a new family with her. Oh, isn't he going to become a lobbyist? He didn't mention the lobbyist thing. You know, it's all bullshit. You don't need all the prongs of the bullshit. Then she dropped a bombshell. She said that two days before she went missing, Chandra left her a voicemail.

In it, she said she was heading back to California and had, quote, big news. So I don't know if you remember this, but there was speculation that maybe Chandra had been pregnant. Yeah. And that maybe like he murdered her to cover Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that maybe, like, he murdered her. He murdered her to cover up the pregnancy. I do remember that. So years later, Condit denied ever saying that he would leave his wife. He said that last time he spoke to Chandra, he said he'd help her get an interview with the FBI or CIA

because she wanted to be an agent. As for the reason that Gary missed the parade, his wife, Carolyn, was being interviewed by the FBI. Oh, I thought he was going to say he had diarrhea. What? Yeah, that's the excuse you give. Nobody questions it. I think they'd question it in this case.

No. You're like, oh, I don't want to hear any more about that. Diarrhea, you say. Have you ever used that excuse? No, but I think it's a good excuse. People just, they don't want to hear details. Nothing. They're like, excellent, great.

And on to the next question. I can tell you've been in management. You've heard things before. You can't come in today. I can tell you've been in management. You've heard things before. Yeah. You can't come in today. Yeah, I have diarrhea. All right. Say no more.

Goodbye. Zach says that the perfect excuse if you're at work and you want to be able to go home early. What? Is to tell your boss that you shit your pants. Because they're not going to ask for proof. And they want to get you out of there as fucking fast as possible yeah but you're the guy who shit his pants at work for the rest of your career the rest of your career i mean maybe for a couple weeks whoa you are so naive

you think people are gonna forget about that in two weeks? No, forever. At Zach's retirement party, people will be like, you remember that chime in 05 when he shit himself? No, people remember great poop stories. Did you ever have anybody shit their pants at work, Kristen? Not to my knowledge. But let me tell you, I haven't forgotten about a time that that happened. How do you know?

Okay, one time. I remember this was when I worked at the newspaper and I was working the weekend. So I came in and, you know, weekend, it's just a really bare bones staff. So it was me, the photographer, and like the web editor. And I came in. It's just the really bare-bones staff so it was me the photographer and like the web editor and I came in it's just the three of us and I'm like oh my god one of these guys smells he smells so bad could not believe it was just disgusted sat there for four hours just like dying because one of these men was just so disgusting. I went home for my dinner break and I was like, oh my God, it still smells.

I had stepped in dog shit on my way into the office. I tracked dog shit in under my desk. It was still stuck to my shoe because i was wearing stilettos so like it had caked in to that curve how much shit did you step on evidently you filled in the arch of your stiletto hold on it didn't fill in it wasn't like but i mean you know a little goes a long way so when i came back to the office i was like guys i have to apologize to you i thought one of you was disgusting turns out it was me and my shoe yeah they were all cracking up it was hilarious because you know why nobody shit pants. Everybody loves a poop story, and I bet you those guys have not forgotten the time that I thought one of them had shat their pants at the desk and was just sitting there.

All right. Well, I'm glad we had this discussion. Let's see. Okay. So, Gary's wife, Carolynlyn is being interviewed by the fbi she was interviewed for three hours this poor woman yeah she said that she and her husband had a close relationship and that gary and chandra were just friends bull fucking shit lady you're an idiot oh hey god she's been through enough don't you think

well i mean let's not be in that level of denial i gotta say so spoiler alert she stays with gary you already told us yeah a long time ago but i just gotta say i do not get it i mean i wonder if what wonder if what well i wonder if maybe she was having her own affairs or if i think it takes a special person to be willing to be married to a political candidate someone who has a political career maybe that's what you she thought she up for. Constant affairs and humiliation. I think also like the humiliation of this is like another thing that gets added on. Because now like everybody knows. Yeah, everybody knows.

Here we are, two chumps talking about it. Fucking 15 years later. Yeah. Except we're great at that point one of the investigators was like uh did you know that chandra has been to your husband's apartment multiple times as just friends at that point the condit's attorney was like hey hey she doesn't have to answer marital privilege shut up everyone they asked carolyn where she was during the time period that chandra went missing which is like what do you think she did it yeah um and she said that

she'd flown into dc for a luncheon with laura bush wow, pretty good alibi. Did some shopping, hung out with her husband, flew home a few days later. The next day, Detective Chief Jack Barrett set up a secret meeting with Gary Condit's attorney. They met at Starbucks. Jack was like, look, we found a pair of black underwear in Chandra's apartment. There's se semen on them we want to know if it's gary's semen or some other guys and obvious obviously if it's another guys then that could take us in a whole new direction this could be good for you but we need gary to do a dna test the lawyer was like i don't know let's do interview, but we can't commit to a DNA test. So they did the other interview.

They got together the next night. And this time the detectives were like, all right, Gary, don't be cute. Level with us. Give us the details on this relationship with Chandra. He says, okay. The relationship started in november of 2000 she'd come to my apartment a few times a week she'd show up in gym clothes and bring a change of clothes in a backpack and yeah okay i did give her a gold bracelet then the detectives were like

what about the other women and attorney lowell objected and they were like how about the other women? And Attorney Lowell objected. And they were like, how about the DNA test? And then Lowell went nuts. He's like, get out. We're done. Goodbye. But then, late at night, on July 9th, Gary Condit, his lawyer, and a detective met in a parking lot behind a grocery store. And that's where Condit gave his DNA sample. Wow.

They just had to do this away from, like, I mean, his apartment was, like, swarmed with media. Yeah. They ran the sample back to the lab, and it was a match. Well. Okay. But that proves that they were having sex. That doesn't prove that we. So here's the thing.

Prosecutors saw this as a win. They were like, this is even more proof that he did it. No, it's not. No, it's really not. It's just proof that, yeah, they were having a sexual relationship. So Jack Barrett didn't think so. He was like, no, this just confirms what we already knew. Yeah.

And you know, we're laser focused on Gary Condit. Maybe we shouldn't be. The next day, police did their first official search of Gary Condit's apartment. A few hours before the search, Gary and one of his aides drove to Alexandria, Virginia. At about 8 p.m. Do you know this part of the story? I don't think so. This is so weird.

At about 8 p.m., they pulled up to a curb near a McDonald's. Some guy was driving home when he saw Gary Condit step out of the car, walk over to a trash can, push something deep inside it, and get back into his car. So keep in mind, by this point, Gary Condit is all over the place. Everyone knows what Gary Condit looks like. Yeah, what the fuck is he doing? So the guy immediately recognized him. And he was like, I wonder what Gary Condit just threw in that trash can. So he waits for him to drive away, and he goes and looks through the trash. Yep.

What a fucking idiot. So he digs it out, and it was a black cardboard watch box. It contained the manual and warrant for a watch, but no watch. The warrant? Warranty.

Police had the warrant for the watch's arrest i did not even hear myself say that could you tell i was just like yeah yeah okay so he's like this is weird so he took it home showed his roommates and the next day he took it back to the same trash can dropped it in in, and went to work. He told one of his co-workers, and the co-worker was like, dude, you have to tell the police. So he tells the police. Police go there, get the watch box, do some investigating.

the watch box, do some investigating. And turns out that the box had contained a watch that a former female member of Gary's congressional staff had given to him as a gift. The detectives were so confused. Yeah, what the fuck?

They were like, who keeps a watch box for seven years, then throws it out hours before we search his apartment? This seems suspicious, but what the hell does it mean? They wanted him to take a polygraph, but Gary was like, no. So he took his own. Like, he arranged it through his attorney, and he passed. But investigators were like, we don't care.

We don't care we don't buy it no you have to take one with us investigators asked for another interview this time it would be with fbi agent brad garrett asking the questions brad garrett what what's wrong there's a police officer named brad garrett fbi agent named brad garrett what that's uh ray romano's the guy that plays ray romano's brother on everybody really raymond who is a police officer on the show i like that guy he doesn't look like a brad i'm now i'm questioning if that's his name all brads are blonde everybody knows that it's science not science yep i'm trying to discredit you right now trying to think of a um yeah brad garrett right here everybody loves raymond's brother what was his name in the show

everybody loves raymond's brother do you not know how to use google yeah I'm working on it you're like the slow guy dismantling the bomb in the movie I am not I'm trying to be thorough don't get this wrong okay right now I'm trying to pull up imdb and your internet is just slower than molasses molasses Robert Barone yeah he totally looks like a Robert Barone does not look like Brad Garrett he should just switch okay so he and Gary talk and

Brad walked away thinking I don't think Gary's our guy on this yeah okay but that watch box story yeah that's fucking weird what is he doing okay my theory again is like he is not computing the stakes he's just like i don't want to be caught with evidence of another affair even though a watch box is not evidence of an affair no i i don't get it yeah that's really weird super weird

but the public was more and more certain that he did do it yeah they didn't like how cagey he'd been he seemed suspicious so gary hired a pr firm they set him up for an interview with people magazine and an interview with Connie Chung. Wow. Do you remember this interview at all? Mm-mm. Oh, God. He did not do it. Connie Chung is married to?

Maury Povich. I don't know that I've ever heard anybody pronounce his name Maury. Maury Povich. I can see him in my head. You're not the father. Yeah. The lie detector determined that was a lie gary condit how do you feel about their marriage you good with it yeah it doesn't bother me yeah

yeah i think it's when you talk about like people's reputations in the world in terms of class she's like way up there but i I think he knows it, you know. I bet Maury Povich is pulling in some bucks on that show. Oh, I think they're very happy. I think they've got the beach house with the pool right beside the beach. That's right. They've probably got 10 beach houses.

They probably do. You know. Anyway, in the interview, he came off weird and evasive. He denied hurting Chandra. But when Connie Chung asked him directly if he'd had an affair with Chandra, he said, Out of respect for my family, out of a specific request from the Levy family, it is best that I not get into the details of the relationship. Oh my gosh.

Yeah, like, dude, just say it. Just say it. Just say yes, and I regret that. And here's the thing. The Levy's were pissed because they were like, thanks, but no thanks. We never made a request like that. We did not make some special request to you.

You're just trying to cover your own ass. Yeah, exactly. At this point, everyone was like, time to resign. P.S. We hate you. P.S. We hate you. At this point, it's July 20th. The detectives got a tip that several weeks earlier, a Hispanic man exposed himself to a woman who was in Rock Creek Park.

Ingmar Bergman. What's his last name? Bergman. Juan Dique. So close. So close. So detectives claim that they called the woman right away. She says they didn't.

She says they didn't interview her until September, three months after the incident. Wow. And of course, by then she couldn't ID the guy. Yeah. Then September 11th, 2001 happened. Yeah. And the Chandra Levy story was not front page news anymore, obviously. Resources are taken away from this case.

But interesting... But interestingly... But interestingly, something did happen with the case. A guy who was in prison with Ingmar Juan Dike said, hey, he told me that he

killed Chandra Levy. The informant said that Ingmar said that Gary Condon saw him in his neighborhood, pulled up to him, offered him $25,000 to kill Chandra. Gary gave him a picture of Chandra

and told him where to find her. Bullshit. So he her. Bullshit. So he did. Bullshit. He hid in the woods at the park. No, he fucking killed her. And then he was like, oh, this has become huge news. The fuck did I stumble into here? And he's like, oh, excellent idea.

I'm going to tell everybody that this big politician who now everyone hates paid me to do this and then i'm gonna tell this story to my cellmate yeah okay so here's his story okay that's what happened he hid in the woods at the park and when she ran by he grabbed her stabbed her in the neck and stomach carried her body deep into the woods covered her with dirt and leaves and sent the 25 000 back to his family in el salvador but investigators much like yourself were like i don't know seems kind of fetched yeah the informant took a polygraph and he failed it several stop it several weeks later they gave a polygraph to ingmar the official result was not deceptive so it's like he's in this gray area where he didn't pass it he didn't fail it he's just not deceptive the other thing i saw

was that these polygraphs weren't done really well because neither of these men spoke english or they didn't speak it well enough to do it to do a polygraph so like the person administrating the polygraph would say something in english, it would be translated, and apparently that's really not the way you should do it. It should just be, everything should be in one language that everybody speaks, and that's the way it should be done. So, you know, there you go. Four days later, Ingmar was sentenced for attacking Haley Schilling and Christy Wigand. He'd pled guilty in the two attacks. And the prosecutor told the judge that Ingmar had really helped them out.

He'd taken the polygraph for the Chandra Levy case. He'd passed it. He'd been cooperative. His lawyer, Gladys Joseph, said, Mr. Wondike was trying to get a Walkman and go, and really just did something incredibly stupid and incredibly dangerous, even to himself. Yeah. Bullshit. Yeah.

Nope. But the two women who he attacked were also at the sentencing, and they were not happy with the way things were going. So the judge in court even said that she didn't think he'd had any, anything to do with Chandra Levy. She said, she said it was like a satellite issue. Haley Schilling told the judge, I reject the notion that he intended to simply rob me.

The attack was a physical one, pure and simple. Yeah. He stalked me for a mile. He attacked me with a knife. We struggled on the ground. He left my valuables on the path when he fled. I do not doubt for a second that given the chance,

he would repeat this crime against another woman. I would request that this person be given the harshest possible sentence for his crime. Then it was Christy Wiggins' turn. sentence for his crime then it was christy wiggins turn she said being attacked by mr wandike was a terrifying experience and it changed me and it changed how i will view the world i completely agree that given the opportunity mr wandike will attack another woman the judge sentenced ingmar too what do you think i have no idea what's even what's the max oh I don't know oh uh eight years ten years he got more than I thought he would get actually yeah so now it's May 22nd 2002 it's about 9 30 a.m and Philip Palmer is walking his dog in Rock Creek Park.

He loved hiking trails, so he was off in this kind of ravine area. And that's when he spotted a human skull. Oh. Oh. Yeah. He marked the spot and then ran to call 911. Investigators arrived. They found a Walkman, a jogging shoe, a pair of leggings that were both knotted at the leg, which I don't know what that was about,

and a shirt that said, Property of USC Athletics. It was Chandra Levy. She'd been missing for 386 days. All the valuable forensic evidence was gone. The search team had barely missed her body. They missed it because of a miscommunication. They were supposed to search that area, but either like

the person giving the orders miscommunicated or like somebody didn't understand. So like, gosh, so frustrating. But to detectives, the crime scene looked sort of familiar. The location, the Walkman, the hillside. It reminded them of Ingmar.

Yeah. They searched the area for more than a week. When they finished, the Levy's hired their own investigative team. Because by this point, they're like, we don't trust you. Yeah, we don't trust the thing you're doing. So their team goes to the scene of the crime. They brought a shovel and an axe. And I shit you not, 90 minutes into the first day,

about 25 yards from where Chandra's skull had been found, they found her left tibia. Oh my gosh. Yeah. They didn't even get her whole fucking body? Nope. This was really bad i mean oh my gosh there's i'm i'm not gonna get into all of it but there was a lot of back and forth with you know

the police being embarrassed and kind of trying to imply that like that was brought on to the crime scene after the fact and you know oh okay so this obviously made them look like shit yeah first because they didn't find her in the first search and second because they left i mean it's like a 12 to 14 inch bone that they just left yeah so they went back to research the scene and found a bunch of other bones that they'd left behind. Oh my gosh. Meanwhile, they're like, we'd like to talk to Ingmar. But Ingmar is in prison in North Carolina, and his lawyer is like, don't say shit.

But detectives start talking to his friends and family. Here's the thing, though. Ingmar's friends and family spoke Spanish, and detectives didn't. Two months later, they went to the scene where Haley Schilling was attacked. And they were like, dang, this is really close to where Chandra was killed. Yeah. Two months later. I mean, like, I don't know.

Ridiculous. Four weeks later. And I called this, like, fucking, I don i don't know what was it a week after brandy you're a genius i also called it after i had all of the information yeah i was gonna say it's great 15 years after the fact so four weeks later they interviewed ingmar's ex-girlfriend iris and iris was like yeah he was very violent with me and my mom kicked him out of our So four weeks later, they interviewed Ingmar's ex-girlfriend, Iris. And Iris was like, yeah, he was very violent with me. And my mom kicked him out of our apartment shortly before Chandra was killed.

Wow. Yep. At this point, there's a new prosecutor on the case. Her name is Elisa Poteat. She specializes in prosecuting sex crimes. And she speaks Spanish. Excellent excellent she's a rock star so she starts sitting in on the interviews and she discovered that ingmar hadn't been working the day that chandra went missing elisa is like okay let's get moving we've got something by the way these slow ass detectives are annoying the shit out of me someone get me

two bilingual detectives finally she gets them now with a bilingual team things start moving forward around this time you know the media hasn't really let up i'm well no they let up with september 11th but they didn't like drop, drop this. So around this time, the Washington Post interviews Ingmar's former landlady. And she's like, oh, yeah, in early May of 2001, he had a fat lip and scratches on his throat. Wow. He got super weird. He started drinking around this time.

By the way, police have never interviewed me. Wow. Ridiculous. Elisa is like, oh, my gosh. this time by the way police have never interviewed me wow ridiculous elisa is like oh my gosh it's because they for sure they thought this case was one thing yeah right off the bat yeah and it turns out it was something completely different but i think it's more than that because like they also didn't get the security tape in time they somehow messed up her search history so that cost them a month they didn't do a proper search of the park like yeah but i think all of that boils down to they weren't looking for a predator that was out there they knew who did this they just needed to find the pieces that

proved that yeah but i mean that takes away the urgency uh-huh it's not some stranger crouching in a park attacking women but i think even if you did think right from the beginning, it's Gary Condit and you think maybe, oh, she was pregnant. Wouldn't she want like her search history? Wouldn't she want to at least see what time she left her building?

Like, I still think those details are really important. Yeah. I agree. For building a case against anyone. Yeah. Elisa is like, oh my God,

this sucks. We need to find Ingmar's belongings. But by this point they were anyone. Yeah. Elisa is like, oh my God, this sucks. We need to find Ingmar's belongings. But by this point, they were gone. Yeah. She's thinking, maybe he kept something of Chandra's. Maybe he has something

to link himself to her. Because I believe she had a pinky ring with her initials on it, and that's not been found. Yeah. In May 2003, the Levees held a private memorial service for chandra they decided not to mark her grave until her killer was found so that's how the washington

post piece ends but it's not how the story ends yeah because this piece got things moving again in this case the pressure was on and on march, 2009, investigators issued a warrant for Ingmar Wondike's arrest. He pled not guilty. In October of 2010, his trial began. Haley Schilling and Christy Wiegand both testified about being attacked by him. and Christy Wiegand both testified about being attacked by him. Christy's testimony was particularly important because she was attacked from behind and dragged down a ravine. Yeah.

Then Robert Levy took the stand. And the defense was like, hey, you told everyone that you thought Gary Condit did this. And Robert was like, yeah, you know what? I did think he did this. Until we learned about this character here. Yeah. The defense said, in previous interviews,

you said you thought your daughter was too cautious to run alone in the woods. And he was like, yeah, I don't think that anymore. I did think that at one time. I don't think that anymore. Then Gary Condit took the stand. He was asked repeatedly whether he'd had a sexual relationship with Chandra. And he said, I'm not going to respond to that question out of privacy for myself and Chandra.

Just say fucking yes. I know. What are you hiding? Yeah. What kind of face do you think you're saving by not answering that? So stupid. It's so dumb. Okay, here's how dumb it is.

So he says that. Then they have an FBI guy testify and was like, yeah, I can tell you from the DNA that it was for sure. His semen was on her panties. Yeah. So, folks, you tell me what you think. Yeah. So stupid. It's so dumb. panties. Yeah. So, folks, you tell me what you think. Yeah. So stupid. Oh, it's so dumb.

Then, Armando Morales, who'd shared a jail cell with Ingmar, said that Ingmar told him that he'd killed Chandra Levy, but that he didn't rape her. So here's, okay, here's where I get a little confused. Because the Washington Post story did not name

the jail informant. And that jail informant had that crazy story about the twenty five thousand dollars and blah, blah, blah. Yeah. This one, the guy has a name and the story is a lot less crazy. It doesn't involve Gary Condit. So make of that what you will. You know, maybe it's a different guy. Maybe it's the same guy with a more plausible story. Who knows? So the prosecution rested, but dropped two charges.

They dropped sexual assault and murder associated with sexual assault. So now it's the defense's turn. And they did not have much to say. But they did have another inmate who said that Ingmar never mentioned killing Chandra and never mentioned rape at all. Well, that's not great evidence.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I agree. But then under cross-examination, the guy was like, well, i did sleep a lot in prison and i'm not a nosy guy so i guess i didn't hear everything at this point the prosecution drops two more charges because the statute of limitations had run out on kidnapping and attempted robbery there was a statute of limitations on kidnapping and attempted robbery. There was a statute of limitations on kidnapping? That's what this said.

I think that's fucked up. Like, there are certain crimes. I think, in most cases, a statute of limitations is bullshit. I really hate it for rape and stuff. Because it's like... Oh, and it's, like, short. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

It's like seven years for rape. I want to know who set those laws into place. I'm guessing rapists, but you know, whatever. Can you imagine sweating through that? Like, hey guys, what if we... What if it doesn't come out for like seven years? Then like, you can't be charged with it anymore. Yeah.

Yeah. I'd hate for rapists to get in trouble for their crimes. Am I right? So now it's time for closing arguments. And they've just got first degree murder committed during a kidnapping and during a robbery. Prosecutor Amanda Haynes told the jury that Ingmar had gagged and tied up Chandra after he attacked her and he left her to die alone in the park. after he attacked her and he left her to die alone in the park but the defense attorney was like a cool story do you have any dna evidence linking him to this crime right oh you don't then your case is fiction i also don't know about this story about him tying her up because i i don't maybe't think they had anything like that.

Maybe that's why the leggings were tied. Oh, that's a good point. Maybe. Maybe. The defense said, we think that Chandra Levy was murdered somewhere else

and that her body was dumped in the park. On February 22nd, 2010. What kind of evidence do they have for that? What evidence does the prosecution have? They're saying someone else... Son, you say what you think. We'll just say some other bullshit.

I mean, okay. Let me say this one thing, and then I've got to say my thing. So on February 22nd, 2010, the jury found Ingmar guilty. Unpopular opinion time. You don't think he did it? Well, here's the thing. I think it's possible, and I think he's an excellent suspect.

But you think there's reasonable doubt? Oh, not only do I think that. I think they had no right to try him for this. They had no evidence. I don't even really think they had much circumstantial evidence. They just had like, here's a creep who loves this park. Who's previously been convicted of crimes in this park. Yeah. But that he de-escalated yeah i agree that's not great

i so who do you think killed her i think he probably did it yeah but i mean and i gotta say if if gary condit didn't have that meeting with dick cheney like so if he left the apartment at 11 and Chandra, like she'd done her web searches, I think at like 1130, 1230, then she went for her run. So I think by that point he was meeting with Dick Cheney.

If he didn't have that, I might think, Hey, that he did it. Not that he did it, but that it would be a possibility. Yeah. But I really think like they did not have enough.

They don't have, I'm surprised that they were able to get a conviction because they there's not i'm surprised they could even have a trial i'm like yeah yeah so then a year later ingmar's attorneys requested a new trial they said that the prosecution had made references to facts not in evidence and that one of the jurors didn't take notes and relied on other jurors notes are you required as a juror to take notes well so here's here's the thing it said that that was against the judge's instructions so maybe just in this particular case you know what that fucking pisses me off when people are like uh take notes please i'm like if i can't remember something i'll take a fucking note yeah right

now i'm good i'm a genius and i'm not saying i'm a genius but i hate when people instruct you to take notes yeah when was the last time someone instructed you to take notes i mean like in business meetings and shit like that oh really yeah someone told you to take notes yes gross tell the story now i don't have a specific story around it i've been in lots of business meetings but you were like one of the people in charge and they were telling you to take notes yeah because you know i also had bosses i was not well yeah no i know i know that's so condescending in every meeting business meeting i've ever been to uh-huh with a corporation i have been provided a notebook for note taking uh-huh and then the expectation of taking notes wait did they provide the notebook and say, you might want to take notes? Yes.

That is so condescending. Yes. Okay, I am totally with you. That would piss me off. It pisses me off. Okay, because in business meetings, I would always bring my notebook. Yeah. Again, in case I needed it.

Yeah. That's super obnoxious. I'd recommend you make a note of that. That's super obnoxious. I'd recommend you make a note of that. That's like one of my least favorite things someone could say to me. Here's my least favorite. Thanks in advance for dot dot dot. Okay.

Along the same vein. Yeah. Yeah. One of my least favorite things that someone who's like in a position of authority over me to say is, you that right it's like just ask me if i fucking know something yeah don't say it like that drives me crazy yeah i once had a boss um oh man i won't give too many details but at one point she said to me, and I think you know that. Oh. Oh. Oh.

It was real fun. It was real fun. Yeah. I wish I could tell more of that story. Also, another business lingo thing. back no yeah why can't you talk like a normal person in a business meeting do you sound dumb if you just use normal everyday english do you have to say let's let's noodle on this and circle back gross so they're requesting a new trial yeah because brandy's boss told them to take notes they didn't take notes but the judge was like no you're not getting a new trial at his sentencing prosecutors

i would like to interject that one of my former bosses listens to this podcast and you're talking about her i am not at all no i know the one thing I loved about working for her was that she let everybody manage in their own style. Yeah. That's a good manager. Yeah. Who's like, okay, you're a human. Yes. And I trust you.

Yeah. And you maybe don't need to take notes on everything. So they requested a due trial. And the judge was like, nah. At his sentencing, prosecutors shared a memo that said that Ingmar was harassing the female prison staff. He masturbated in front of guards and solicited a nurse. Oh, yeah, I didn't know that. You didn't know that?

Mm-hmm. He was sentenced to 60 years. Mm-hmm. But Ingmar maintained that he was innocent. He appealed. Again. And in 2015, the prosecutors said they would not oppose a new trial. What? Do you not know this part? Clearly not. Okay, what fucking prosecutor says that? Well, get this. The defense said, look, your star witness was ingmar's cellmate and the prosecution had a

duty to tell us that he'd been working with you guys on other cases but you didn't so this guy had been like a long time informant yeah and the prosecutors did not communicate that to the defense so the defense was like clearly he made up the confession so he could gain more favor from the prosecution or from the prosecutors. And oh, by the way, we've got a new witness. On the last day that Chandra was seen alive, a neighbor called 911 at 437 a.m. to report a blood curdling scream. What? Yes. That could have come

from Chandra's apartment. And the judge said, okay, let's have a new trial. Holy shit. Yep. A few months later, before the new trial, prosecutors admitted

that during the first trial, they had failed to turn over documents to the defense. Oops. The next month, the defense trial, they had failed to turn over documents to the defense. Oops. The next month, the defense said, this is ridiculous. All of these charges should be dismissed. There are too many prosecutorial errors. Oh my gosh.

Months passed. Then something super weird happened. something super weird happened. A part-time actress and one-time House of Cards extra named Babs Proler had just gotten evicted from her house. So she was living in a hotel in Maryland and that's when she met this guy.

He called himself Phoenix. Phoenix? Because he was rising from the ashes? In a way, yeah. They became good friends, and eventually he said, My name isn't really Phoenix. I'm Armando Morales, a.k.a. the Star Witness.

I just spent like 20 years in prison, and I was the star witness in a huge murder trial. Yeah, my cellmate confessed the whole thing to me. Babs starts to get a little freaked out, so she starts recording their conversations. And she claims that in those recordings, he says that he lied on the stand. After that,

she reached out to Susan Levy. And Susan was like, uh, this is super strange. If you've got those tapes, you need to send copies. Well, that's just it. Like, you are claiming this on the tapes. Why don't you just fucking show us that it's on the tapes? So, you know, she said, you need to send a

copy to the prosecutor, send a copy to the prosecutor, send a copy to the defense. Yeah. This is strange. So Babs did. She also gave her tapes to 20-20 for them to listen to. They listened to them. They were like, yeah, these are great, but there's no confession on here. Like, the guy, at no point does he say, oh, I made it up or I lied on the stand.

Yeah. But at any rate, on July 28th, 2016, prosecutors announced that they would drop all charges against Ingmar Wondike. Instead, they would deport him back to El Salvador. Wow. They explained that there had been quote, recent unforeseen developments. And they said that they could no

longer prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he did this crime. Yeah. So, as of right now, the murder of Chandra Levy is unsolved. Whoa. Isn't that crazy? is crazy so i don't think they ever had enough on him no uh i and i don't know why they dropped i mean i i kind of think that this woman didn't have

tapes proving that this guy you know made it up on the stand but i wonder if it was enough to like make him not seem credible or maybe there maybe there's there were other things going on behind the scenes that just made the prosecution feel like we we don't have enough yeah well i mean definitely the star witness's testimony was the most damning thing they had. And now he's at least questionable at the very least. Wow. That's nuts. Yeah.

So he was deported. Mm-hmm. And. Yeah. Wow. I do think the de-escalation is weird. But maybe, yeah, I don't know. I thought the de-escalation was super weird.

But maybe it wasn't a de-escalation. Maybe he just was not successful in those attacks and he planned to carry them out the way that he had carried out an attack on Chandra Leafy. Or maybe he didn't attack Chandra Leafy. I mean, maybe. Yeah. I don't know. Like I said, I think he's an excellent suspect.

Yeah. And I wish that they'd found her. Well, I wish that she hadn't died. Of course. i wish that they'd found her well i wish that she hadn't died um but like i wish that they'd found her body in that search yeah that's crazy unreal that's nuts that was good yeah oh this is a dark one man Man. Some big cases today. Yep. Someone reached out to us on Twitter. I thought this was hilarious.

I'm going to pull it up right now. So this is from John on Twitter. I don't know if people want us to say their full names. Maybe John doesn't want to admit that he listens to the show. Hey, John. So he tweeted at us. I started listening to episode 38 and did a google search i think we need to talk about that carrot top i was like at first i thought he was talking about

how ethan couch yeah had red hair yeah but no do you know what i'm talking about i do i responded to this tweet okay so get this when you search for ethan couch um it's under that section that says people also search for. You get Daniel Holtzclaw, who's that police officer who raped women. Scott Brown, who was Ethan Couch's lawyer. And then, like, I guess some other rapist. You also have George Zimmerman up there. And then you have Carrot Top, the comedian.

Poor Carrot Top. I know. Poor Carrot Top. I know. I wonder how he got lumped in there. Infamous redheads? I guess. Terrible. I think that's hilarious. I responded to that tweet.

What'd you say? With Big Bird singing one of these things that's not like the other. Big Bird singing one of these things. It's not like the other. You want to tell the Lamont McIntyre news that. Yes. Oh, my gosh. Yes.

So I text. I saw this news story the other day, like right when it was breaking. And I text Kristen Lamont. I met Lamont McIntyre, who we talked about in a previous. Yes. You know, he was famously imprisoned for 23 years. Yeah. After being falsely convicted of a crime. And there was a lot of corruption in the investigation and the prosecution, everything.

He was then exonerated. He was then exonerated. And recently, a law was changed in Kansas where he got a big settlement for his time erroneously spent behind bars, which was a big deal. He'll end up getting a couple million bucks out of it, which obviously does not make up for the years of his life. But when you go through that, you should be able to buy your beach house. So now he has filed a civil suit against the KCK Police Department for the way they handled his case. And it specifically names the detective who...

Mm-hmm. Who is believed to have basically retaliated against Lamont's mom for denying his sexual advances. Yeah. There's something like over like 150 mentions of things that he did listed in this case that Lamont McIntyre has filed. So we are hoping that he does not settle and that this goes to court

and all of that stuff can come out and then charges can be pressed against Detective Golubsky. That's our hope

for Lamonte McIntyre. Yeah. And that he gets a bunch of money. I want him to have all the money. I want that dude to be bunch of money i want him to have all the money i want that dude to be so rich all the money okay and i'll i have a story to tell you tell me the story when we did our pranks and hoaxes episode we finished up by you talking about some pranks that people had pulled on you yeah and i told you that i didn't think really anyone had ever pulled a prank on me uh-huh

that has changed oh my god i love it what has happened so i think that i've mentioned on yeah i for sure mentioned on the podcast before that I do not like clowns. Yeah. Hate clowns. Terrified of clowns. So a couple of weeks ago, I was working late at the salon and I was there with my sister. I was doing her hair. And so we left late. It was dark out.

And so my sister walked me to my car in the parking lot. And she's kind of like lagging behind me a little bit. This is my sister Casey, who's one of my older sisters. And so she's kind of lagging behind me. And then I see something like in the handle of my car door. I'm like, what the fuck is that? And I stop because it's just startling to me like just that there's something there and then like my sister's like what are you doing and i'm like what is that and i'm trying to figure out what's in my car door it's a fucking skeleton clown figurine hanging

from my driver's side door handle that is horrifying freak out and my sister starts cracking up because she put it there and she loved every minute of it so i'm take it out of my car door and i put it in my car and i set my purse on it and then i drive home and i'm just annoyed that she's done this to me yeah and then i get home i get out of my car i pick my purse up and the fucking thing i forgot was there and it scares me again because i picked my purse up out of it so i take it in the house and now the prank has escalated so zach has taken it and he's putting because zach is acting like this thing is the fucking elf on the shelf and he is positioning it in different places in our home one day i came out and it was like like leaning over a cup of water like it was getting a drink another day i came

out of the bathroom after like washing my face getting ready for bed and it was like on the floor like crawling towards my bathroom and then the ultimate one just happened a couple days ago what i walk into my bathroom and my bathroom i have like my vanity counter and then there's like a tall cabinet next to it okay and so i walk in and like i see something out of the corner of my eye and they're peeking out over the top Of the tall cabinet is that fucking clown skeleton. It's looking down on me. I screamed. I jumped. I, it legit scared the shit out of me.

And Zach thought it was the funniest thing ever in the world. So. What is he afraid of? He's not really afraid of anything. Just find something. Casey, on the other hand, who is the origin of this, and I will now have to exact my revenge on, is afraid of snakes. Oh, God, no.

Look out, Casey. Coming for you. Remember that time when I thought there was a snake on the highway just waiting for me? It was obviously a rubber snake well I'm glad that someone has finally played a prank on you it's about damn time yeah didn't love it

so I owe you an apology oh last week we went out to lunch as always oh my god this is this is the second time that you and i have gone out to lunch and i'm like hey let's try some place that i've just been to i enjoyed it you're gonna like it too and it so it was fucking terrible it was awful tell the people about it so we're getting ready to go lunch and kristen's like you pick where you go today we can go to the normal place that we always go to or we could go to this great new place and i was like no i don't care

she's like no no you pick and i was like well let's go to the new place that's clearly where you want to go and so we go to the new place we walk in and there's one other table of people there uh-huh and we do go we go at an odd time yeah it's between lunch and dinner so it is it's an odd time so we go in it's just fucking dead silent in there no music no music playing nothing so we're sitting there and we it looked like there was a business meeting happening at this table little did we know it was in fact a business meeting of the owners of the fucking restaurant that we were at they were sitting at the best table in the restaurant and very loudly discussing payroll and hours and ordering and all kinds of fucking shit while we're trying to have a lunch i was gonna say a nice lunch but it just we were at that point it was just a lunch our waiter acted like he'd never waited on a person ever in his life. He was so fucking nervous.

Nervous as a whore in church, as they say. He poured water all over me. I think you deserved it. And then. What? I got a grilled cheese, which was easy. You know, I figure I'm good with that. No, grilled cheese was good. Yeah. Along with grilled cheese. I can you know i figure i'm good with that no grilled cheese was

good yeah along with grilled cheese i can't remember what this extra thing is comes fries oh great wonderful so this woman who we had yet to see and i had all of a sudden appears with our food i don't know who the fuck she was and she's like i could probably tell you how much she makes a year yeah exactly payroll she's, here is your Reuben. And she hands that to you. And then here's your grilled cheese. And the house-made fries are paired with our homemade ketchup. What do you feel about homemade ketchup, Brandi?

If you guys don't know what homemade ketchup is, about homemade ketchup brandy if you guys don't know what homemade ketchup is it's just fucking tomatoes that they've pureed and then put in a little ramekin i gotta say i am with you on this it's like when you go to kind of a fancy restaurant and they're like oh and we do a pop tart like a homemade and you try it because you love pop tarts yeah and you're like, oh, and we do a Pop-Tart, like a homemade Pop-Tart. And you try it because you love Pop-Tarts. And you're like, I'd rather have the real $2 Pop-Tart. And like, frankly, I'd rather have the artificial. I would have rather, yeah. That was like dipping my fry in a tomato, which I did not enjoy.

Didn't enjoy the atmosphere. Didn't enjoy the conversation not with you but we overheard no but legit like we had to whisper because it was so fucking quiet in there and then which you know i do not like quiet restaurants like if it's quiet in there no it feels like it feels like you've just walked into someone's home yes what do you have in the kitchen yes exactly and then just it just you know push it over the edge with the homemade ketchup i'm not going back there kristin i'm not going to make you go back because i don't need to know more about their payroll no and frankly if we're the only ones in the restaurant, I want the best table in the restaurant.

So yeah, I bring that up to say I apologize to you. Never again. Thank you. You're welcome. It was also freezing out and you made me walk like five miles to the restaurant. Five miles? It was only slightly further than our regular restaurant spot. It just felt really far because it was very cold.

It was windy and we were accosted by a strange woman waiting for the bus. Oh, yeah. She just needed $16.50. I am bad at shutting down conversations with weird people because she was like hey you who and like waved us over and i can tell you would just have not gone yeah but i was like hello hello i am dumb. Here I am. Yeah. Oh, thanks for that joyous experience, Kristen. And yet you showed up again this week.

I am a glutton for punishment. I've got some homemade ketchup for you. I don't want it. I stomped the tomatoes with my feet. Your bare feet? Yeah. It's really rough and artisanal oh no thank you i'm gonna serve it to you in a mason jar yeah that was the other thing about that place the

water was served in a mason jar also served on your foot yes what was not splashed all over my leg was served in a mason jar how do you feel about about that, Brandi? I didn't love it. A little too hipstery for you? Yeah. Yes, I was not nearly hipstery enough to be in that restaurant. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Oh, we have a special request. You know, this is the... Oh, my God, we've been recording for three hours. Yeah, this is the fucking longest we've ever talked ever okay boy am i sick of you oh my god it's 4 30 yes oh my god i'm hungry we gotta wrap this up okay so this is the part where we um beg you to review us on itunes obviously if you hadn't haven't done that we'd love for you to review us on iTunes. Obviously, if you haven't done that,

we'd love for you to review us wherever you listen to podcasts. But if you've already done that and you would like to do more, here's something that would super help us out. On Reddit, a lot of times people will request different podcast recommendations, especially if they're into true crime

or true crime comedy. If you like us and you would recommend us we would love it if you'd mention us in the comments yeah mention us in that format it would be great for us uh and then exciting news that if you're if you've already joined us on social media you know this already but um if not then a big announcement we are now available on Spotify. Woo! We've officially arrived. Mama, I made it. So, yeah.

Please tell your friends about us. Join us on social media. We're on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. It's a good time. We promise. And then subscribe to us wherever you listen to your podcasts. And leave us a rating. Leave us a review on iTunes and then join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics.

Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from the Washington Post, an episode of 2020, and Wikipedia. And I got my info from Crime Library, Murderpedia, Mental Floss, the Topeka Capital Journal, and USA Today. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com.

Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff!