Let's Go To Court! - 49: Cheaters… with Daryl Pitts!

Episode Date: January 2, 2019

The day has arrived. Kristin’s dad Daryl Pitts, a.k.a. DP, *cringe* is on the podcast! Our theme this week is cheaters, because what could be more fun to discuss with your father? Brandi starts us off with yet another brutal attack in Olathe, Kansas. Late at night on February 28, 1982, Melinda Harmon ran to her neighbors for help. She told them that two masked men had just broken into her home. They’d killed her husband David right in front of her. Police rushed to the scene, but the evidence didn’t match Melinda’s story. Then Daryl tells us about a strange night in March of 2011, when Kandi Hall called police to report that two men were shot in a Walgreens parking lot. One was her husband; the other was her boss and lover. Kandi’s husband Rob survived, but Emmett Corrigan wasn’t so lucky. Then Kristin tells us about Leon Jacob, a greasy-haired guy who fancied himself a bit of a ladies man. His charm worked on recently divorced veterinarian Valerie McDaniel. The couple quickly moved in together. Together, they plotted to murder their exes. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Toxic Love” episode of 20/20 “What happened in bizarre murder-for-hire plot that led to veterinarian’s suicide, her boyfriend in prison,” ABC News In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “A Knock on the Door” episode 48 Hours “Conspiracy To Kill” by Richard Jerome, People Magazine “Police Catch Woman and Her Young Paramour 20 Years After They Beat Husband To Death So They Could Be Together” by Benjamin H. Smith, oxygen.com “In a Limbo of Another Kind” by Marek Fuchs, The New York Times “Killer in infamous Olathe love triangle case soon will go free” by Tony Rizzo, The Kansas City Star In this episode, Daryl pulled from: “Deadly Desire” episode of Dateline An episode of Dr Phil “Dr. Phil Show does not provide healing for Ashlee Birk,” by Maggie O’Mara for USA Today “Woman’s affair with her boss leads to deadly parking lot confrontation,” by Jason Mattera for True Crime Daily Articles for Idahonews.com Articles in the Idaho Statesman by Cynthia Sewell

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Pitts. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about a smooth ladies' man. And I'll be talking about another brutal attack in Olathe, Kansas.

And I'll be talking about serial cheater Candy Hall from Meridian, Idaho. Folks, it's finally happened. The day is here. The DP is in the building. We're in the presence of greatness. Well, thank you so much for inviting me. I appreciate the opportunity to be on the podcast. I, you know, I think this will be the way that mom knows that you weren't lying about

being invited on the podcast. She could not believe we invited invited on the podcast she could not believe we invited you on the podcast she was surprised and she said where are you going when i laughed and i said i'm going to do the podcast and she said no you're not she said there's no way they want you on that podcast listen uh truth is we didn't really want you on the podcast, but the people demanded it. It's true. It's true. Lots of comments, lots of questions. Twitter was a buzz. Yes.

One comment, is that what made it a buzz? Our social media presence is so small that one comment does constitute a buzz for us. That's correct. I appreciate the opportunity. So, Dad, before we started recording, you said that you had some concerns about being on the podcast. Yes, I do have some. I have three concerns, and I just need to get these. You wrote them down. I need to get these.

Yeah, these are written down. First concern is that you ladies will be bragging on me the entire podcast. I don't know. Here's why I think that. Here's why I think that. First off, I've listened to a lot of your podcasts and you appear to be bragging on me quite a bit. Oh, for example, you've talked about my sweet, all white, fake leather Costco shoes that cost $15. Oh, and you read that as that we were like jealous of those shoes well yeah oh okay i mean it's great spin well i i knew you you knew they were great looking and you knew they were cheap and so

i i knew you were happy with that i was i was wearing them we were like this is a guy who knows how to keep his cheap shoes clean another thing that i've heard you brag on me about is my super cool vintage clothes now most, when they have vintage clothes, they got to go to a vintage clothes store, to mine. I walk into my closet and right there in my closet, a whole line of vintage clothes. Wow, that is impressive. Yeah, yeah.

Third thing I've heard you brag about is my thriftiness, my ability to save money in all situations for example right now for probably the last 10 years i've not spent any money at all on a comb a brush shampoo haircuts anything like that so i figured out that by shaving my head why are you not wearing shampoo or using using shampoo? Just use this body wash at your toe. Yeah, if you don't have to, if you don't have hair,

you do not need to use shampoo. Well, you got a little hair. There's a little hair. No, there's not enough to have shampoo, so it's just the body wash, like you said, Brandi. Body wash the whole thing

and you're good. Second thing I'm concerned about. Who? F-bombs. I cannot keep up with you girls and your F-bombs. We weren't raised with you girls and your F-bombs. We weren't raised well

is the thing. Well, Kristen, I know you were. I don't know how you, but I, Brandy, I don't know about you.

So what I'm going to do, I learned it from my dad. I'm going to use the phrase sexy times. Ew. Who was? So, for example, if Brandy, if you say something kind of shocking, I'll say, I'm going to use the phrase sexy times. Ew. What? So, for example, if Brandy, if you say something kind of shocking, I'll say, holy sexy times.

Oh, no. No, that's so much more offensive than the F word. The F word. No, here's another one. Here's another one. So this is a cheaters episode, right? Yes. The theme of this episode is cheaters. That you selected.

You selected the theme. I wanted cheaters. Yeah. Oh, we haven't told people. Yeah. So there is a theme this is a cheaters episode yes this the theme of this that you selected i wanted i wanted cheaters yeah oh we haven't told you yeah so there is a theme it is cheaters cheaters okay why did you do this with my dad on the show i don't know getting a group therapy right after this i may need to say something like this also they were sexy timing in the back seat of his car. Okay. Okay. Well, that's better. That's fine. That's okay. But just, oh, sexy times is gross.

Well, you're going to get it all. If I feel the need, I'm going to bust it out. Cannot wait. The third thing I'm concerned about is I'm a big Seinfeld fan, and I don't know whether your listeners are as big a Seinfeld fans as I am, but I'm going to make a lot of really funny Seinfeld references, and it may go I'm going to make a lot of really funny Seinfeld references and it may go right over the head of some of your listeners. So I'm concerned about that.

I mean, he's such a big fan. He's practically Larry David. People tell me I'm like Larry David without the money. In looks and personality, you are like Larry David. So are those your concerns? Those are my concerns. And I just want to make sure they're out there. And you ladies will respect those issues.

Absolutely. Okay. All right. Well, before we get started, I've been waiting for this moment to confront you. Oh, I'm in trouble. When we started this podcast, everybody was really excited. We had this, you know, Facebook post that we started. It got shared kind of around.

You shared it. And you said, my daughter, Kristen, and her long-term friend, Brandy, have started a podcast. Did you intend to make us sound like lesbian lovers? Not that there's anything wrong with that. Not at all. No. Oh, no. No.

But. No, you guys became friends in fourth grade, I believe, when we moved to the Kansas City area from Mexico. And therefore, since that was 25 years ago. I mean, by definition, we are long-term friends. But the connotation that that carries. Usually people would say, like other people, just to give an example. Other people said long-time friends.

Other people said best friends. Other people said besties. You said long-term friend, which sounds like they've got a one-bedroom apartment. They're just roommates, though. We're supportive. We're trying to wrap our brains around it. Not that there's anything wrong with that. They're both roommates, though. We're supportive. We're trying to wrap our brains around it. Not that there's anything wrong with it. They're both such pretty girls.

We can't figure out why they don't have boyfriends. They've neither one never been on a date in their lives. I don't know what happened. They just were always so focused on their studies. And each other. Oh, God. Do you feel better now? I do.

I do feel better. I'm happy to be Kristen's long-term friend. I just wanted you to know the connotation that that might carry. You know, for some reason, I was aware of the connotation when I wrote it. And I didn't know that I thought it was funny. I just thought, this will create a little bit of controversy, so I'm going to write it this way. All right, excellent.

Always trying. So these two husbands you talk about, this Norman and Zach, I've never met them. I got to say, Brandy's at least sounds believable.

I'm saying that my husband is a YouTube star. Does he live in Canada? Yeah. Sounds totally made up. He's really cute, I swear. I swear. Super good looking.

It's just his FaceTime doesn't work and he... He doesn't have a smartphone. He doesn't have a smartphone, yeah. So could we text him? Oh, yeah, you can text him. Text, yeah. Talk to him on the phone. Text, tell you're blue in the face. No problem. Oh, we can talk to him on the phone, have a smartphone, yeah. So could we text him? Oh, yeah, you can text him. Text, yeah. Talk to him on the phone. Text till you're blue in the face.

No problem. Talk to him on the phone, too? Oh, sure. Oh, yeah. That's going to be... He's got a kind of feminine voice, though. I believe it. I believe it.

I don't know why I was questioning it. All right, Brandi, you want to take it away? I am going to kick us off. Okay. All right, Brandi, you want to take it away? I am going to kick us off. Okay. So I took a break from my Johnson County series to do our Christmas episode.

I'm back in Johnson County for this episode. Happened to have a case in mind that fit right in that nice little cheater's pocket. Oh, boy. I will say right off the bat that I pulled a good portion of this information from a 48 Hours episode. I think it was called A Knock at the Door. Ooh. Okay. It was the early morning hours of February 28th, 1982, when Gail Bergstrand was suddenly awoken by a loud thump. The thumps continued as Gail got out of her bed

to see where they were coming from. As she became more awake and alert, she realized they were coming from the other half of the duplex they lived in at 1002 West Sheridan Street, Olathe, Kansas. Hold on. 1002 West Sheridan Street, Olathe, Kansas. Yes.

Why are you giving the address and looking it up? We love to look these things up. We love to look the houses up. And I'll show you, Deb. It looks a lot like the... It looks just like the duplex from the Duffield case episode. Yeah. Okay.

Okay. A couple of fun facts here. 1002 is the left duplex if you're facing it. So the noise is coming from the right side of the duplex. Okay. That wasn't really a fun fact, just information. The fun fact is that the duplex that my parents lived in when I was born, so the house I came home to, is like two blocks away from this duplex,

like down one street around the corner. Weird. Yes. Okay. So that was like five years later four years later but yeah 1982 to 1986 is four years i'm excellent at math as we already covered you and i paid close attention in school that's right so the series of thumps paused for a moment and then started again. Gail shook her husband, Richard, awake.

I think something's going on at the Harmon's, she told him. She described to him what she had heard, a series of thumps, a brief pause, and another series of thumps. David probably fell down the stairs. Go back to sleep, Richard told her. Why would he expect that the husband had fallen down the stairs? Thump, thump, thump. A little pause. Maybe he's rolling around the landing and then thump, thump, thump

down the other set of stairs. I thought maybe he had a drinking problem or something. In fairness, I don't know that I'd be that worried either if I just heard some thumps. Yeah. Gail wasn't going to be quieted that easily. She pressed her ear to the wall and told Richard that if she heard anything else,

he was going to go over there and figure out what was going on. But ear pressed against the wall, Gail heard anything else. He was going to go over there and figure out what was going on. But ear pressed against the wall, Gail heard only silence. So she climbed back into bed and attempted to fall back asleep. But she couldn't shake the feeling that something was wrong at her neighbor's home. She kept picturing David Harmon rolling down the stairs. The Bergstrands were fond of their neighbors. Melinda and David Harmon were a young,

wholesome, all American couple. They were extremely active in the Nazarene church, a conservative evangelical branch of Christianity. And at the time, Olathe had a large population of Nazarene Christians because Midwest Nazarene university is there. Um,

and it's still there today. At this time, population of Olathe would have been less than 30,000. And it was spread over a large area. So they're kind of in the western part of Olathe, not very developed, little pockets of neighborhood. So everybody kind of, you know, you knew your little neighborhood, you knew your neighbors. And then where the university was heavy, heavy Nazarene population there. And the Nazarene religion, super conservative, very straight laced, no drinking, no dancing, no laughing. I've got a quick no dancing story. I went to a conservative university, William Jewell College. We nicknamed it Billy Jewell Bible School.

Oh, yeah. And while you couldn't have dances, you could have foot functions. And so literally they would be a poster up. This is obviously back in the 70s because I'm an old guy. That would say the, you know the Delta Zeta foot function was occurring this Saturday, and that was okay by the Baptist. That sounds way worse than a dance. That sounds weird.

It's the dirty foot function. Oh, gosh. So you call it a foot function, and everyone goes and dances, and somehow that's okay? Well, yeah, because I guess they thought that the older Southern Baptists who were giving all kinds of money wouldn't recognize that that was a dance. And it didn't say the word dance, so everything was cool. So that's how you get around that in the conservative Christian annals. All right.

Annals. Yeah. If I use words that are too big for you. I know the word. Thank you. So Melinda actually worked at MNU. She was a secretary to the Dean of Students. So she was like, right there in the office. She interacted with students on a regular basis. She was kind of the face they saw when they came in. And she was about the same age

as the student. She was in her early 20s. So they related to her very well. And David worked at a local bank. I don't know exactly what his position was there. But he was like a key holder. So they related to her very well. And David worked at a local bank. I don't know exactly what his position was there, but he was like a key holder. So he had some kind of, I would say, management position of some kind. So back to that night. Gail had been laying in bed for about an hour trying unsuccessfully to fall back to sleep when suddenly there was a knock at the door she shook richard awake and they went down to see who it was when they opened the door they found melinda on the porch she was a bit dazed and slightly panicked she told them that david had been attacked and needed help melinda said she'd been asleep and had been awoken by something and found that there were two masked African-American men in her room.

Beating David while she lay in the bed. Don't think so, Melinda. Not Noletha. Not Noletha, no. When they realized that she was awake, they had dragged her from the room, taken her downstairs and demanded David's keys to the bank.

She'd given the keys to them and then they'd hit her across the face with a heavy object and knocked her out. When she came to, about an hour had passed, and she had come next door for help. The Bergstrands called the police and then asked Melinda if there was anyone else that they would like her to call. Anyone else that she would like them to call?

She asked them to call her aunt and uncle her only family living in the area so she was originally from ohio i believe and so she had relocated here because of the nazarene population like these people were very into their church gotcha um and so her aunt and uncle lived in town and that was all that she had yeah and so she's like oh call my aunt and uncle but the call went unanswered it's like the middle of the night so for a call not to be answered is weird and so gail's like on the phone she's like, oh, call my aunt and uncle. But the call went unanswered. It's like the middle of the night. So for a call not to be answered is weird. And so Gail's like on the phone. She's like, nobody's picking up.

And she's like, oh, right. They're out of town. I forgot. Well, hey, she just took that hit to the face. Brandy, you're being very unsympathetic here. And so Gail, for the first time, was like, well, that's weird. And she later said, just the way she said it, she said it so nonchalantly, like she was going to order a pizza and then forgot they weren't open.

Right. And so Gail starts to take a second look, like a better assessment of what's going on. Melinda's husband, by her own account, had been brutally attacked. And she herself had been knocked out. And here she was with one tiny mark on her cheek. And here she was with one tiny mark on her cheek. And while her story didn't feel rehearsed necessarily, Melinda's demeanor struck Gail as uncomfortably calm. What are you doing?

Do you need a more comfortable chair, Debbie? No, Brandy, I saw something on the floor. Something shiny. I saw you were distracted by something shiny. Shiny objects distract me often. I'm surprised you were distracted by me picking up a shiny object. Do you need a more comfortable chair? No, I'm fine. Are you sure?

Because you're kind of wiggling like a five-year-old in church. I'm going to move around. You did give me a very comfortable bench, a hard to sit on while both of you hard bench no back on very comfortable padded chairs we're both in lazy boys i'm in a church pew with no back no i'm fine i'm fine don't worry about me all right so gail's like okay this story is sounding a little bit odd she's pretty calm and she's but she's telling me that her husband has just been horribly beaten right and that she had been knocked out but there's just this one little mark on her face i don't know how i'm feeling about this was it makeup on her face or was it a real mark it was a bruise oh tiny bruise

tiny bruise okay the kind that only two big men can inflict don't forget these were african-american that's correct don't forget that um so gail's starting to have her suspicions about maybe what had taken place next door and it was just gonna get worse after getting no answer at melinda's aunt and uncle's house, Gail asked her if there was someone else she could call for her. And Melinda was like, uh, sure. I mean, I guess you could call Mark. Let me see if I remember his phone number. I think it might be 599-3607.

Is Mark her boss? Mark was Mark Mangelsdorf, a student at MNU who had become very close friends with the Harmons. Mark was the student body president and had met Melinda through her job as secretary in the university office. Melinda had quickly taken to Mark and introduced him to David. The three became very close, but there were some in the conservative Nazarene community who thought the friendship was inappropriate. They thought it was inappropriate of Melinda, a faculty member, to be friends with a student,

and others thought it was inappropriate for a couple to be such close friends with a young, single man. Hmm. Very interesting. This is a cheaters episode. I'm putting two and two together here. Despite her thoughts and suspicions, Gail didn't say anything and instead called Mark and told him he should come

over. There'd been an emergency. Mark arrived 30 minutes later, freshly showered and wearing a tweed blazer. Got to dress up for these in the meantime the police had arrived on the scene they entered the home and went straight to the master bedroom on the second floor it was a scene so gruesome that some who were there that night describe it to this day as the worst scene they've ever worked. There was blood everywhere. Oh, sorry, I missed the cue there.

You want to try again? No, no, it won't have the same magic. David was clearly dead. What wasn't clear, though, was that he was David. One responder later said something to the effect of, it could have been a 10-year-old boy or an 80-year-old woman. The gender and age were unrecognizable. Oh, my.

Yeah. Really bad. One, okay, that's bad. One little print-up of his injury said that one of his eyeballs, like, fell out and, like, rolled across the room. Oh, my God. It was, like, found in the corner of the room. Oh, God. Yeah, really, really bad. This was found in the corner of the room. Oh, God.

Yeah, really, really bad. This was the thump, thump, thump we heard? I'm guessing, probably. Okay. What was apparent was that David had been beat savagely with a heavy, blunt instrument. The blood was spattered all over the room. The walls, the ceiling, the pillows, the blankets,

the carpet, the sheets. So. Everywhere. It looked like this was an obvious case of overkill, which meant David likely had a connection to his killer. I'm sorry, you forgot the S? Killers. Yeah. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Two S? Killers. Yeah. Oh, that's right.

Yeah. Two African-American men. Males, yeah. Have you noticed that sometimes white ladies, when they make up stuff... It's always the African-American men. They back off to their racist backgrounds and the black guy came in and did it. Oh, yeah. Very easily.

But this overkill situation didn't match the random home invasion story that Melinda was telling. And as for Melinda's injuries, just one small bruise on her cheek, quite the contrast from the overkill David suffered. Initially, police looked past those questions, and for the next few days, they staked out the bank,

hoping to catch the perpetrators who had stolen the bank keys. But upon closer look, the investigators were like, wait a second, this is not adding up. There was no forced entry into the home. And if the intruders were really seeking access to David's bank, why would they kill him first? Before they got what they needed. That was a poorly timed pause. Were you waiting for one of us to say something? Yeah, I was.

I was looking for you guys to interject something. Our fault. It's all right. It's only our 49th episode. You'll get there. And then there was the blood spatter evidence. I may have mentioned earlier that it was everywhere really um melinda told them that she awoke to the attack and had

stayed in bed until the intruders dragged her out so there should have been blood spattered across her face and a clean spot on the pillow where her head had been instead the blood was spattered evenly across the pillow her head had not been there during the attack as for the nightgown she'd been wearing it had blood spatter on it but only from the knees down to investigators it didn't look as if she'd been in bed rather it looked like she'd been standing at a distance from the bed watching what was going on so the way the blood spatter was the the on her nightgown so she's got this you know this floor-length nightgown but there's only blood spatter like from the knees down so to investigators it looks like as the cast-off blood is coming

it's already on its way down when it's hitting her gown right so that doesn't match with her laying there in bed unaware of what's happening. Her story is not adding up. That's the point I'm making. I'll just tell you right now, I'm not feeling good about the story. Yeah, I think that's a good feeling. So they started to turn their focus from those mystery intruders to Melinda Harmon. And when they did, they found out that there were a lot of whispers

and rumors about the inappropriate relationship between Melinda and Mark Mangelsdorf. And that those rumor mills were calling this horrible attack a Nazarene divorce. Oh, gross. This is one of those deals where it's better to have your husband murdered than to divorce your husband. So at the time, divorce was apparently heavily frowned upon This is one of those deals where it's better to have your husband murdered than to divorce your husband.

At the time, divorce was apparently heavily frowned upon in the Nazarene church. What about murder? And Melinda would have likely felt shunned should she have made the choice to divorce David. Now, I'd like to put a note in here that I'm not passing any judgment on this religion. And in their defense, a Nazarene pastor spoke on this episode of 48 Hours, and he said that that wasn't true and that if Melinda had really won a divorce, she could have gotten one and she would have still been accepted by her church family. That's neither here nor there, and none of this is my own opinion.

It's just the opinion of the investigators as stated on the 48 Hours episode. So they're like, she's fallen in love with this Mangelsdorf guy. She can't get a divorce because she'll be shunned by her church and her church family. And that's all that she has. She has no actual family here other than her aunt and uncle. So what's better? Probably to murder her husband. During their investigation into Melinda and Mark, though they couldn't find any proof that there was an actual relationship there were really big signs that this was a super close friendship they uncovered stacks of letters between the two and while they labeled them love

letters and one alluded to a kiss that the two may have shared, that was as steamy as they got. Like, they were literally like, I love hanging out with you. Like, thank you for all your support. You're such a good friend. Like, they really did not get very steamy. Wait, you said they labeled them love letters. So investigators labeled them love letters. They were Melinda's letters that she had kept. Gotcha. Wait, you said they labeled them love letters. So investigators labeled them love letters.

They were Melinda's letters that she had kept. Gotcha. And I don't know if they were all from Mark and they found some from Melinda to Mark at his home. I don't know. But they found these letters and there were a bunch of them. Right. But the steamiest they got is alluding to a kiss in a living room one time. Well, but to be fair, though, in the Nazarearene world a kiss is like third base i believe it but investigators couldn't find any tangible evidence

to link either melinda or mark to the murder of david harman so the case went cold. Melinda moved to Ohio with her parents. And later she married a dentist and became Melinda Rash. She had a couple kids and became a soccer mom. Oh my gosh. Mark graduated from MNU, then got his MBA from Harvard, got married, had a couple kids, got divorced, got remarried, had a couple more kids. He was living his life. Everything was great for Melinda and Mark. Then, in 2001, almost 20 years after the murder.

They found those black guys. They did. There were only two guys in Olathe. exactly they found him and said you got to be the guy yeah a couple of olathe detectives bill wall and steve james had been doing some reading on how advances in dna evidence and technology had led to long cold cases across the country being solved so they decided to take a dive into a cold case of their own. They pulled out all the evidence and records from the David Harmon case. Okay, my notes say from the David Harmony nurse.

I think that might be some autocorrect there. And they were immediately fascinated by the case. It seemed to them so clear that Melinda and Mark had been having an affair that it was shocking to them that the case had never been solved. So in December of that year, on a hunch, they went to Ohio to talk to Melinda. They knocked on her door. She invited them in. They sat down at her kitchen table. her door she invited them in they sat down at her kitchen table and she told them a completely different story than she told police that night 20 years ago you know you gotta write this stuff down you gotta write you gotta write this stuff down so that's exactly detectives are like holy

shit she doesn't remember her lie oh my god so she tells them now that there was only one intruder, not two, and that they were a shadowy figure. She never saw who it was. And that was all the details that she could remember. And so they were like, well, this is quite different from the story you've told us before. We're going to be real honest here with you, Melinda. We think you murdered your husband. And she's like, what my gosh no not me i could never i think it was mark oh yes she says wow it was a shadowy figure i never saw their face

but in my heart oh i could feel his spirit oh i know it was mark mangelsdorf who killed my husband oh my goodness oh my goodness yes we're blown away here yeah so police are like great thank you and so they take her in and they make she makes an official statement they record an official statement she says the same thing thing. She never saw his face, but she knows deep down inside that it was Mark Mangelsdorf. And so this is December of 2001. So they go and they talk to Mark Mangelsdorf

and he's like, what? Absolutely not. I could never. Oh my gosh, David Harmon was like a brother to me he took me under his wing he really helped me i was so close to the harmans melinda was an amazing friend to me as well i don't i wouldn't be where i am in my life and i never met those two blah blah blah blah also i'm a harvard mba did i mention that exactly because harvard mba so they always got to tell you they went to harvard for sure so they're like okay great mark thanks

so they spend like the next two years just digging into this case getting every duck they can in a row because there's no there's no time constraints there's no statute of limitations on murder and they're like we have hardly any evidence this case is 20 years old this is going to be super hard to convict but we know these people killed david harman so they light up every bit of evidence they can on and on december 3rd 2003 Melinda Rash was arrested and charged with first degree murder. Whoa. Yeah. It took another year and a half before they arrested Mark Mangelsdorf.

He was arrested on April 8th, 2005, and he spent a week in jail before making his $300,000 bail. So obviously he knew when, um, Melinda was arrested and charged. And so he and his second wife had been, she was actually pregnant at this time with their, it would be, I think their fifth child totaling his ones from his previous marriage.

Um, so they're like, well, any day now you're probably going to be arrested. And that never happened. It never happened. It never happened. And then one night in April, they're at home.

It's like 10 o'clock at night. They live in a $2 million house in New York. Beautiful house. Okay. $2 million in New York though. That can't be that great. But it's not like New York City. Okay.

It's a beautiful house. Okay. Well, he's going to do some serious downsizing though. To a cell? That prison cell. That's some serious downsizing. Nobody's cell that's some serious downsizing nobody's ready for that yeah so they uh they get a call it's like 10 o'clock at night and they get a call and it's a detective in the case and he says mark i'm outside can i get you to come downstairs he goes downstairs and they place him under arrest and he's charged with first degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder.

Conspiracy to commit murder. Conspiracy to commit murder. Oh, Brandy, so well said. Thank you. I want to point out that Brandy had to say that three different times. So if that gets cut, just so everyone knows, she made three efforts. Wow. Each one better than the last.

We did end on a high note. Yeah. So this 48 Hours episode that I watched, Mark Mangelsdorf does an interview on it. He actually has a couple of interviews on it. And it's been after he's been charged. So is he in a button-up shirt with the prison uniform tied to his waist? He's home. Oh, okay. He made Bond. He's home. Oh, okay.

He made bond. He's got cash. He's got cash. I forgot he had cash. So he's like, oh my gosh, I'm 100% innocent. I could never imagine

taking another person's life. His wife is there by his side and she's like, you know, pretty early on in our relationship, Mark told me about, you know, what had happened to his friend David Harmon so many years ago.

And he didn't even have to tell me all the details. I just knew. And it was not possibly in his character to take another person's life. Hmm. Yeah. And so he's maintaining his innocence this whole time, you know. And I have no doubt that Melinda is innocent as well. She was just a great person who something terrible happened to.

She's a victim in this as well. Wait a minute, this is his wife talking? No, that was what Mark was saying. Mark was saying that too. And what did Mark's mom think? Did Mark's mom think he was innocent too? Probably. So Melinda Rash's trial began on april 11 2005 they had in in court they played her tape

of her laying everything out blaming it all on mark mangelsdorf and then they also laid out the inappropriate relationship that she had had um with him and that she thought that he was the masked intruder. She claimed on this tape that it was Mark Mangelsdorf. Mark Mangelsdorf testifies at trial in her defense and says, I know it's not Melinda. By the way, it's also not me. He testified in her trial trial but she had led the police back to him yes oh my goodness yes well and it was the when he testified on her behalf

it was the first time they'd seen each other in 23 years did sparks fly i'm sure oh we got another cheater thing going here so he testifies and says there's just no way that it was melinda like there's just no way you know she loved him they had a great relationship she testifies about how involved they were in the church all of this stuff but the prosecution lays out how the nazarene church frowned upon divorces at the time and how she wouldn't have had another option and how she'd fallen in love with Mark. And then they really hone in on how she told one story when it happened and a completely different story 20 years later. The jury deliberated, I think, for two days before returning a verdict.

And on May 2nd, they found Melinda guilty of murder. Without any physical evidence to speak of. No physical evidence. That's pretty wild. I mean, I think she's probably guilty. I think so too, but that's not enough for me to... So she was found guilty of first degree

murder. That's crazy. So she was facing a life sentence. Well, think about it though. First degree is premeditated. Yeah. If she's guilty. If she's guilty, then it's first degree. Yeah.

Yeah. So now that she's found guilty and is looking at a possible life sentence, something kind of crazy happens. She tries to work a deal with the prosecution. And she's like, all right, I've been found guilty. prosecution and she's like all right i've been found guilty if we can get that bump down to like a second degree murder i will testify at mark mangelsdorf trial i will testify against him can you do this after the fact apparently you can i had no idea you could do this after the fact you know our legal background could use a little buffing up. Yeah. Well, now, Dad, you're a lawyer, right? Well, actually.

Oh, wait, no. HR, Hallmark Cards. Yeah, I was a human resource manager at Hallmark Cards and Progressive Insurance. However, when I was in an undergraduate school, I took a class in pre-law. Oh, so you're practically a lawyer. Well, I didn't even finish yet. About five weeks into the class, I realized this is a whole lot of work. I don't really enjoy it that much.

I'd really rather be having fun at college, partying and stuff. Going to those foot functions. Foot functions, yeah, foot functions. And so I dropped the class. Did you get a W? Or did you have time to? No, I was a withdrawal. Yeah, I was a withdrawal.

And I didn't affect my grade point. Okay, good. And Brandy, I was kicking butt in this class. Oh, I'm sorry. Now, Dad, why didn't you help me out and tell me your story? Could have saved me some time. You know, I thought you were smarter than me, so you'd be able to make it through that law school with no problem.

Dad, I am smarter than you. But like you, I kicked the pants off of law school. I just didn't enjoy it. I wanted to go to some foot functions. Well, here's the deal. You had a really high grade point average in undergrad and I didn't. And so I thought, well, Kristen, she's got the grade. She's got the ability. She's got the smarts. She's got the stick-to-itiveness. Oh, my God. How big is your head getting over there, Kristen? It's all true facts, Brian.

She's heard it before. She's heard it before. So I thought you would fly right through law school and still be able to have all the fun you wanted. So, sorry. Not true, turns out. You ask how big my head is getting? Yeah. It shrinks when we get to the part where I go, better turns out. You ask how big my head is getting? Yeah. It shrinks when we get to the part where I go, better drop out.

So we all three kind of dropped out at different points along the route, but still now three experts. That's right. Yeah. That's right. Also, I've noticed the really smart people, they don't say they quit. They say, then I pivoted. Yes. To this other thing.

I pivoted to cosmetology school. I pivoted to having my two o'clock in the afternoon hour free to do whatever I wanted instead of going to that pre-law class. Foot functions every day at two o'clock. You know, and it wasn't all just foot functions at William Jewell. We did a whole lot of other wild stuff. No, I bet. I can't get into it on the podcast, but wild stuff at William Jewell College. Excellent. Okay. So Melinda's been found guilty. She's facing a life sentence and she's like, So Melinda's been found guilty. She's facing a life sentence. And she's like, fuck.

And so. Sexy times. Sexy times. So she calls up the prosecutor and she's like, hey, how about this? I'll tell you everything. I'll tell you exactly what happened. I'll testify at trial. I'll testify to everything

that took place. Bump me down to second degree murder so that I can get out like after 10 years. Was this their end game all along, you think? Maybe.

I don't know. I don't know. They don't sound that sharp. I mean, he might be smart. No, no, no. I'm talking about the prosecution. Was that their end game? Maybe.

Go for her first. If you get her, then you for sure get him. True. Could be. And he's the one who for sure did the murder. Oh, yeah. So the prosecution's like, well, I don't know. What do you got?

And she's like, I can tell you exactly what took place that night, but I have to know there's a deal. And so they give her the deal. And so she tells them that they 100% conspired together to kill David. They had fallen in love, Mark and Melinda, and they did not believe in divorce. And so it was much better to kill David, much better to be a widow. Plus you get the sympathy vote. That's right.

Absolutely. And maybe life insurance. I don't know. They didn't mention life insurance at all. That's a perk. So Mark bought a crowbar. They planned out when it would happen. He came over.

She let him in. She stood there while he beat David to death. And then they were both so affected by what they had done, they couldn't look at each other anymore. That's why they didn't get together after work. That's why they... In fact, they never actually had an affair. The most that they had done

was that one kiss in the living room. I'm not buying that. That sounds like BS. I do, too. I do. If they are this wound up and weird about like, well, you know, can't do a divorce.

Yeah. Can't do the affair this has to be the honest way where i'm a widow oh let's yeah you know let's not think about how i have to get to be a widow i kind of believe it they never had anything when and that was very inappropriate to them that they had had that one kiss and they're like nothing we can't move forward on our on our feelings for each other until david is out of the picture and then once that they had done it they could not look at each other the last time they saw each other was at david's funeral well that that probably actually helped him in the long run because had they gotten together 100 it helped

them they could have waited two or three years and it still would have been, well, look at this. Yeah, exactly. We knew, we knew. So at David's funeral, Mark walked up to Melinda and whispered in her ear, I got rid of the crowbar. Those were the last words they ever spoke to each other. Did he tell her where he, did she tell him? Did he tell her where he put it? I'm getting the he's and all the pronouns are mixed up.

So she spills all of this to the prosecution. And they're like, excellent. This is wonderful. And Mark Mangelsdorf gets word that Melinda is going to testify against him. So what does he do? Kills her. He pleads guilty. Mm-hmm. So what does he do? Kills her. He pleads guilty. Oh.

Yep. Sorry, I like that we said that the exact same way. Oh. He totally changes his story. He's like, it's time to own up to this. Oh, yeah. I will plead guilty to second degree murder only. And they give him that deal.

He pleads guilty to second degree murder. So Melinda never got her deal, right? She got her deal, too. Oh. They both him that deal. He pleads guilty to second degree murder. So Melinda never got her deal, right? She got her deal, too. Oh, they both got the deal. So how long did he spend in prison? I'll get there. Oh. Keep your pants on.

Sorry, jumping ahead. Jumping ahead. So he pleads guilty. His wife makes this statement about how, you know, I still believe that he's a great man and I'll be right here by his side and I'll be waiting for him when, you know, he gets out and you are a whole, not the whatever, some of your parts. You can't just say you're a whole and then end it. So wait a minute, how old are they at this point? How old is he and the wife?

Forties. Forties? Yeah. Okay. So wait a minute. How old are they at this point? How old is he and the wife? 40s. 40s? Yeah. Okay. His wife is younger, I think. She would have to be. Yeah. What, to fall for that?

Yeah. Yeah. So both Mark and Melinda were sentenced to 10 to 20 years in prison. After nine years behind bars, Melissa Rash was released from prison on April 29th, 2015. I thought her name was Melinda. What did I say? Melissa. Oh, Melinda. It's Melinda here in my notes, too.

I just said it wrong. Melinda Rash was released from prison on April 29th, 2015. I'm so excited that you finally messed up on somebody's name for once. Upon her release, she returned home to Ohio, where she will be on supervised release until 2025. So parole. Yeah.

Almost a year later to the day, Mark Mangelsdorf was released from prison in 2015 after 10 years behind bars. He is also on conditional release. Wow. So they're not supposed to murder anybody. No, anybody. Poor David Harmon was murdered for an affair that never really happened. Wait,

that's your takeaway. I mean, I think that like, it tells you a lot about who they are as people. Like, yeah, to them, divorce was worse than murdering someone.

Yeah. And it was for an affair that never really happened. They had an emotional affair. They never had a physical affair. Yeah. Maybe. You don't believe? I 100% believe they never had a physical affair.

Well, maybe not. It is telling that, you know the fact their consciences their consciences each of their conscious each of their consciences got to them yeah oh yeah they couldn't go forward with it that and that does say something positive about them as people yeah if there's anything positive yeah murderers yeah i don't what do you think about 10 years? Nine and 10 years. That's low. That's really low. That is so low. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, that's nothing. Yeah. I'm really surprised that Melinda was able to keep her second degree deal. Keep the deal after. Yeah. Yeah, I would think it would be like. She upheld her end of the bargain. She gave the prosecution all of the information.

But you know what? When they open up a tips hotline, they always say, you get the reward for anything that leads to an arrest. So I always think, like, you've got to get to that end point. They still convicted him. Yeah, second degree. When he pled guilty to them. Second degree. I just happened to go in this house at night.

I just happened to have a crowbar. Yeah. He got a deal. I mean, both 100 they both came away yeah pretty strong i think we can surmise that if it had been two black men who'd done that oh gosh well and the prosecutor said like the fact that they had not been able to have a relationship after it like it had clearly showed that they did have a conscious and it made them feel like maybe they were deserving of a break of a. Oh, give me a break. We're not a very sympathetic.

Oh, you felt bad. And they took their age into account, too. They were in their early 20s when they did it. Give me a... No, man. I am not agreeing with this sentence. I think it's terrible. Texas is killing teenagers.

Yeah, really. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Meanwhile, over here in Johnson County, you're white and Christian. You're set. Especially Nazarene and Olathe. Yeah. That makes it all good.

I've got an interesting sidelight on this one. That guy's name was Mark Mangelsdorf. I've got a personal cheater story for you about a guy named Mark. Oh. Yeah. This is kind of weird. Kristen is aware. I don't know whether you're aware.

I was engaged when I was in college to another woman before I met Sherry. Sherry Ray? Wow. Before Sherry Ray. And one of the guys she cheated on me with was Mark. Wow. Wait, we can't include this in the podcast. Oh, you can if you want to.

It's up to you, Kristen. You can do it if you want to. So anyway, just one of many. I mean, it was fool me once, Kristen. You can do it if you want to. So anyway, just one of many. I mean, it was, you know, fool me once, you know, shame on you. Fool me twice, three, four times. You know, eventually the engagement breaks down. But this was happening at William Jewell? William Jewell College.

Oh, yeah. Okay, but my favorite story of you ending the engagement is, will you tell the story? Because you were just so, it was like not a big deal for him to end this engagement at all. Well, yeah, that kind of tells you. So two things happened. So my buddy calls me. So I graduated semester.

I graduated halfway through my senior year. Graduated. I'm at home. It's only a half hour away. Yeah. And my buddy calls me. He had been my roommate. And my buddy calls me.

He had been my roommate. And he says, hey, I got to tell you, somebody told me that this weekend your fiancé, so to speak, was with another guy. Oh, gosh. And I was like, oh. But again, this had happened before. Uh-huh. So not totally shocked. Yeah. So, you know, a normal person would go up there and and talk to your

fiancee and kind of work your way through it what daryl did was i called her on the phone again i i'm a half hour away i call her on the phone and i said if our relationship broke down who would you want to go out with just can, can you imagine this weird conversation? Yeah. And so she names a guy, and it takes a while to get her to name anybody, because, you know, she doesn't really want to. Well, you're not going to name him the first time. Yeah.

And I look back on it. Maybe she was naming other guys that she had, you know, relationships with. I don't know. Maybe. But, like, on the fifth one, she names Mark. Uh-huh. I don't know. Maybe. But like on the fifth one, she names Mark. And I said, bingo. And I said, I'll come up in a few days and we'll talk about this.

And boom, I hang up. And so I literally, you know, a few days later, go up, ask for the ring. And you talk about an unemotional thing. I need the ring back. She gives me this super expensive, huge engagement ring. I'm so sure. This is like $1975 or something. Adjusted for inflation. It's like $2,000 today. So, yeah, we paid like $400 for this.

And it's like $2.5 million today. Yeah, probably. And so I got it back. And that was it. Now, obviously, we'd had some issues up to that point oh i would guess see now the story i was trying to get you to tell i didn't i didn't realize all that stuff it was that you realize okay this relationship needs to end i need to go get the ring but you were watching something good on tv and you waited until the show was over and then you went well actually no it was on the other side of it.

There was something I wanted to watch on TV. And back then, I mean, there's no DVR. So you had to do it real quick so you could make it home to watch the show? And so I thought, okay, that show comes on at nine. I'm going to have dinner. And this is not going to be a long, drawn out meal. And so I had to get back in time for the show. Do you remember the show?

I do not remember the show. Dang. It may have been a dateline on cheaters. I don't know what it was. Probably. Who knows? I wanted to get back

for the show. So yeah, that was... But hey, everyone's better off now, right? Well, yeah. I'm married to Sheree Ray, the most amazing wife ever. Yeah, this is true.

She's married to somebody. I thought you were talking about mom. And so it all worked out in the end. And you had the most amazing daughter of all time. And then you had Kyla. Two amazing daughters, please. Two amazing daughters. Oh, all right.

She listens to the show. So, Brandi, when you said that Mark Mangelsworth, I had kind of heard about, I knew about this place, but for some reason, I'd forgot the guy's name was so close to the... Yeah, no kidding. So, anyway. Okay. So. That's my case.

That's the whole... That's a good one. Good case. Good case, Brandi. Yeah. Okay, Dad, take it away. Okay, you're ready. Okay.

Give you a little background on this story before we get into it. In 2006, Rob and Candy Hall moved to Meridian, Idaho, which is a suburb of Boise. Excellent. Both of them are about 35 years old. He is kind of a low-level IT guy, and she is a paralegal. Okay. They've got two kids, daughters. Both of them are, one's 10, one's 14. And things are going pretty well for them there in Boise. Now, let me talk a little

bit about this name, Candy. It is spelled K-A-N-D-I. I knew it. What do you think about parents who would name their kid candy well do you suppose her name is candace and she goes by candy no all the legal see i got into the legal stuff and all of it k-a-n-d-i yeah it's rough what do you think about somebody who named their kid brandy brandy's okay because brandy is a fine girl oh what a good wife she would be that's what zach says that is what he says here's kind of what I think about naming your kid Candy. I'm guessing the Baders who had a daughter named that they named Ruth. Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Yeah, I'm familiar. If they would have named her Candy, would we have

Candy Bader Ginsburg as a Supreme Court justice? Let me say something, though. I have known one Candy in my life. She was super accomplished, super well-educated, was the president of a local college. Here's my theory. You get given the name Candy. You are either a stripper or you far exceed all expectations. You have to overcome it. Yes.

There's no middle level, just do an okay candy. Yeah, that's probably true. Was your candy spelled K-A-N-D-I? Yes. Oh, okay. Yes. Well, I can't argue with you. I just don't think there's many candies doing postgraduate work at Harvard.

I agree. Right now. You know, it's a little bit like naming your kid Jeeves. You know, when you name your kid Jeeves. They're going to be a butler. His career path is laid out. There's no way it's anything but that. No one's voting Jeeves for president.

Here's another thing. Kristen knows what I mean when I say a mismatched couple. Oh my gosh, she's got such a theory. I got theories on mismatched couples. Do you know what a mismatched couple. Oh, my gosh. She's got such a theory. I got theories on mismatched couples. Do you know what a mismatched couple is, Brandy? No. If you took a bell curve and laid out the attractiveness of the human race, you'd have a whole bunch of people kind of in the middle,

and you'd have some people out on the ends. Candy was kind of a standard deviation away from the center. Candy was an attractive woman. The husband, Rob, right there in the meaty part of the curve. Red. Rob, pictures of him, some of them look like kind of a mashed potato face guy. Oh, all right. Kind of pasty and mashed potato.

Here's the deal. I'm 60, and this guy was 40 in these pictures. He looked worse than me. He had less ears. I mean, this guy was not. these pictures. He looked worse than me. He had less ears. I mean, this guy was not. But, Dad, you're super good looking. You're like Larry David. Hi, that's right.

I mean, people constantly talk about how hot Larry David is, right? Have you seen some of Larry David's girlfriends? He does really well, and it's because of how great looking he is. I know. Have you guys seen Sheree Ray Pitts? Yeah. That's true. Exactly, exactly. You guys think you're a mismatched couplee Rae Pitts? Yeah. That's true. Exactly.

Exactly. You guys think you're a mismatched couple? No, we're not. We're not. I'm playing up a little bit. Okay. I'm playing up a little bit. I'm an immediate part of the curve. Sharae Rae, she's better looking than me.

Yeah. Yeah. No doubt about that. Dad, does it hurt your feelings that Brandi looked you over and then asked if you were part of a mismatched couple? It did hurt a little bit. Brandy, normally I'm a lot better looking than this. I just got back from the dermatologist and had some work done. So as soon as all this heals up, I'll be great looking again.

Okay. Well, we got to get back on the case here. Okay. Things are going well Okay, we've got to get back on the case here. Okay, things are going well for a few years there in Meridian. But in 2010, things start falling apart a little bit. Candy, at this point, claims that Rob is having an affair. And let me tell you. You doubt it? Anything's possible.

But I'm not really buying it. And she also tells her friends that he beats her. So we're going to learn more about Candy. Candy, she's got a problem with the truth and those kind of things. So I'm guessing neither one of those are true. But on the Dateline episode, she's up there yapping her jaw back and forth about how bad her life was because Rob is not only cheating, but beats her. He has nothing going for him at all. On the contrary, Candy is actually having an affair. Candy has an affair with a lawyer in Oregon.

It's kind of a long distance thing, obviously. And we don't know whether it was one time or a few times, but she's having an affair with a guy in Oregon. Here's the interesting part. That has nothing to do with the case. That's just background. I know. I'd really love to vacation in Oregon.

I've never been there. Oregon is so cool. Oh, I want to go there so bad. We'll load you up in the motorhome and take you sometime. Thank you. Appreciate it. Okay. In late 2010, now, her life is a mess right now.

But in late 2010, she loses her job as a paralegal there in town. Now, the weird thing is she's really good at this job. And the people in the office are kind of shocked that she loses her job. She's one of the best in the business. She's banging her boss. She did something illegal. Brandy, Kristen. She banging her boss.

She did something illegal. Brandy, Kristen. Just because this is a cheater's episode, and I've already told you, don't start assuming things. Okay, sorry, sorry. And both of those, well, one of them might be right. Okay, but so imagine this. Your husband beats you. Yeah. Your husband's having affairs.

Yeah. And you just lost your job. Yeah. Things aren't good for Candy. No, no. But good news on the horizon, she is hired by a young, brash, hot shot lawyer just out of law school and just passed the bar exam. He's starting his own practice. And his name is Emmett Kerrigan.

Ooh. Okay. That sounds like a made-up name. Emmett. Emmett Kerrigan? Emmett Kerrigan. Wow. Now let's talk a little bit about Emmett.

Let's. Okay. Emmett is married to Ashley. Emmett and Ashley Kerrigan. They met in college in Utah a few years before this. Are they Mormon? They are Mormon. Okay. I wasn't going to bring that up.

Whirlwind romance. Two months after they met, they are engaged. Yeah, they're Mormon. They're Mormon. Gotta start having the sexy times and you gotta be married. Six months after they met, they're married.

Yeah. They're more married. Oh, it gets more and more. They have 17 kids. They have a set of twin daughters within a year of when they got married. And by 2010, she's 28 years old. He's 30 years old. They have five kids like you do. Now, I always like to talk about the mismatched couples. This is not a mismatched couple.

Both these people are on the far end of the scale here. Ashley is a good-looking lady. Emmett's a good-looking guy. And they are a match on that scale. Okay. Now, here's where it gets a little dicey. Do you think that's like something in the Mormon genes? I know a lot of Mormons. They're all pretty good-looking. Well, and you know what? I was just thinking our one true legal expert for this podcast is my buddy Franklin,

who actually stayed in law school the whole time. He's now a lawyer. Did he pass bar exam, too? Oh, he did the whole thing. The whole thing. See, I just wasn't aware you were supposed to stick around. I thought I'd done it all. But yeah, I wonder.

They don't drink. I know. I think there's something about it. Because I have a big Mormon family that I'm very close with, and they're all great looking. Hmm. Are you just sucking up to them right now? I don't think they listen to the podcast. Okay.

Why are you doing too many curse words on this thing? You think about the Osmonds, you know, good looking family. Yeah. There's a lot good looking. Might be something to this. Good looking Mormons out there. All right. Okay, we're getting distracted by religion again.

I know. You hate when we do tangents on the podcast. No, tangents are good. Yeah, but it takes too long. As long as I'm involved. As long as I'm involved. Yeah, because like a long podcast,

if I'm deciding I'm going to work out for the podcast and it lasts like two and a half hours, that's a long workout. You're going to have a great body if you listen to this podcast while you work out. No kidding.

That's what people, and we need to have more podcasts though so people can work out daily on these two-hour podcasts. They can listen to the same episode multiple times. Yeah, we can't put out a two-hour podcast every day. You're going to get a lot of good information, though, if you listen to them over and over again, aren't you? You're going to pick up little details you missed. I have actually heard, and this is true, that if you listen to our podcast episodes more than once, like your teeth whiten and you lose weight and your hair gets shinier. And you get this like glow to your skin.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like a healing quality. That hadn't been happening with me. I need to listen more carefully. Yeah. Okay. So now Candy's got this great job with Emmett, the new boss.

Yeah. Well, within two weeks, they are all over each other. Oh, good. Okay, now, so she's about 40. Kristen, I know you like the age gap. Oh, I do. She's about 40. He's about 30.

Ooh. Ooh. And they're all over each other. Kristen likes cougars. No. No, I don't like. Don't like. Now, they're not only doing the sexy times at work.

They're doing sexy times away from work also. Wow. And everybody knows it. Oh. Okay, right there in the law firm, it is not a secret. Gross. Candy will go back in the office there for a while and she'll come back out of the office with hair messed up and her dress on backwards.

Oh my gosh! No, I made up the dress on backwards. But they literally said that she would come back out rather disheveled. Oh my gosh! And it was happening so often that clients knew. Oh, jeez! Because the client comes in for a meeting and they say, well, he's he's with the paralegal right now. It's going to be a little while.

He's having sex with the paralegal right now. And we can't. And basically, yeah, having the sexy times and we can't go back there because who wants to see that? Yeah. And so eventually, you know, this gets around town. This is happening for a few months. Rob, the husband of Candy, finds out about it. And he finds out about it via text and email. So we're in a more modern era than yours where they had to

find the letters. And so he's on top of it. He knows what's going on. He's having the conversations with Candy and all that kind of stuff. Ashley, on the other hand, so Ashley is the young mom of five. She's got five kids at home. Five kids at home. She suspects something's not going well because he's kind of withdrawing. So they haven't had kid six yet? They haven't had, yeah.

He's like overdue for kid six. But here's what Rob says to her. Candy's an older woman. She's more of a motherly figure for me. Oh! Yikes. So this is a heads up. Oh!

Heads up, ladies. If your husband says, the lady at work. Don't worry about her. She's like a mother. And she's only 10 years older and she's attractive, then you probably ought to be looking out. Good advice. And listen to this, though. Candy actually helps out here.

Candy buys Ashley presents. she buys the kids presents i don't care about it all i don't like that all the things that would make it seem like she's a friend of of ashley's and you know helping with the kids she's like a nana and a friend all in one oh all the time all. She's doing the sexy times with Emmett. Okay, so Candy's got this story that just sounds bizarre, but this is so Candy when you put her whole story together. She says at one point Rob grabs her phone when Emmett has texted. All mashed potatoes. Mashed potato face. And he says, hey, come over here.

We're going to talk this out. We're going to, I'm going to tell you my wife loves me. She doesn't want you. And so come on over. So again, again, this is Candy's story. Oh, this is her version of it. Her version. We don't know that this happened at all.

Got it. When you hear how it ends up, you'll probably think it didn't happen. Yeah. So the story that she tells is that he comes over they go the two men are in the front yard like you like you want to air that in your front yard she stays in the house they are out there for several minutes talking rob comes back uh-huh tosses her phone on the bed and says i can't compete. What? He's young.

He's rich. He's good looking. He's a jacked bodybuilder. What? He's a big jacked bodybuilder. Oh my gosh. He's all roided up and everything. I can't compete. And it sounds like you're not buying that story

that that actually happened. Not quite, no. But in Candy's world, she gets to tell how these two men were dueling over her, and this other younger, better-looking guy thinks she's so hot that he can't compete. He can't compete. The guy's just too much of a stud. I think it's BS. Yeah, I think so.

The whole thing's BS. Now, on the other end of the scale, we've got Ashley over here. Mother of five, 28 years old, working on the relationship. Oh, gosh. Poor Ashley. No kidding. But Ashley goes out to his car one time and she says, I was just cleaning out the car and there are amphetamines, there are steroids, and there are the boner pills and i guess there's a more professional way to say that it would be your uh erectile dysfunction pills that she finds in the car your erectile dysfunction pills you got your you got your uh Viagra.

Okay. My Viagra. Your personal Viagra, Kristen. So this is the first time she realizes. It's really great for your hair. You wouldn't think a guy with five kids would need Viagra, but, you know, he did. Probably if he's doing the sexy time as often as he's doing it. And he's doing steroids.

Yeah, that's not helping, is it? It's not helping. And he's doing steroids. Yeah, that's not helping, is it? It's not helping. He's got a counterbalance. Yeah. Okay, so this guy's a jerk. Let's just put it this way.

Emmett. Yeah, he's a jerk. He sounds great. On the next anniversary, he goes to a fitness competition in Ohio

on their anniversary. And so he misses the anniversary. Well, his body is a gift to both of them. Both of them and the world because you go to the competition. I don't think he won the competition. He also tells Ashley he hates her family because she wants to have Christmas here. Yeah. I hate your family.

Wow. Ashley has her brother call him to try to talk some sense into him. And so the brother calls, and what he does, as any good lawyer, he defends himself and says, She's crazy. She's paranoid. She's the problem. None of this is happening. There's no problem.

I'm not on steroids. I'm just a total stud jacked muffin without the— Jacked muffin! Don't say jacked muffin! Don't say—Kristen, don't tell me what to say. Okay. Please never say jacked muffin again. Do we need to take a moment?

No, we're good. We're good. We're ready to go. To talk about how Kyla and I ordered you and mom to stop calling each other muffin. Yeah. Do that. Do that. Okay.

You tell the story. So you and mom have called each other muffin as like a term of endearment since the dawn of time. Decades. Decades. Decades. And so finally, you know, we all know what muffin means in slang. In the 80s, it did not mean this. Well, you know, times change.

So Kyla and I gently told you both, you've got to stop calling each other muffin. And you two were like, what? No, no, it doesn't mean anything bad. And mom especially was very, very adamant that we were wrong and we were gross. Do you remember the turning point? I do not remember the turning point.

You have to tell me. It was Saturday Night Live. Yes. Oh, I do remember. Okay. On Saturday Night Live. Dusty Muffin. Yes, Betty White made a joke about her Dusty Muffin.

And that's when mom realized, oh, it's not just our daughters being gross and inventing slang. We don't keep up on a lot of pop culture type stuff, but we do watch Saturday Night Live. And so that's, if you want to get something across to us, put it on Saturday Night Live and we'll know. Tuscan potatoes. I know what that means.

Sherry has always thought the girls were talking dirty. I think, okay, I think mom's fear was always that we would be saying something very dirty and sexual in front of her and it would go past her. So the Tuscan potato story is it was Kyla's graduation. We were all at a restaurant and I was looking over the menu and I noticed that like every menu item had Tuscan potatoes with it. And just being like goofy and weird, I turned to my mom because I didn't know what those were. And I was like, what's the deal with these Tuscan potatoes the kids keep talking about?

And she, like her jaw dropped and she goes, oh, you are sick. And I was like, what? It says on the menu, Tuscan potatoes. Mom has still not admitted what she thought that meant. But now, Tuscan potatoes. It just sounds dirty. It just sounds dirty. Well, you also got in trouble for singing the J-Lo song,

Don't Be Fooled by the Rocks that I Got. Yeah, so there was this song. Don't be fooled by the rocks that I got. I'm still, I'm still Jenny from the block. My boyfriend at the time, Kyla and I were singing, Don't be fooled by the rocks Jeffrey's got. Okay, mom got beyond angry. Beyond angry.

You don't want Sheree Ray mad at you. Oh, Sheree Ray Bird. And she said, Girls, I know what that means. And I remember Kyle and I just looking at each other because we were like, What does it mean? Because rocks means diamonds.

Yeah. According to Sheree Ray, rocks means testicles. i'm gonna i'm gonna defend sheree on this one a little bit it does also mean testicles just not in that context we weren't singing about my boyfriend's testicles she didn't know this it sounded that way i gotta i gotta i gotta i gotta say i think uh you guys were just as guilty as she was on the saying muffin all the time. No. Oh, Brandy, can you weigh in here?

It is a similar situation. I'm Switzerland. Brandy, how long have we been long-term friends? Long-term friends. And you're going to betray me this way. So long-term, I couldn't even die. Are you going to get married now or something, now that this long-term friendship is over?

We've been waiting for the courts to decide, and I guess they have waited. I guess. I mean, I know Norman's fake, but is Zach? Because we could get this done real quick. Okay, so let's get back to the story. Oh, yeah, candy. This stuff is obviously bubbling to the surface here pretty badly.

We've got, you know. Emmett's off course. He's doing drugs and steroids and sexy times all over the place. You're right. Ashley's upset. March 2011, about 8 p.m. one evening, Candy tells Rob that she needs to go to Walgreens. Sounds innocent enough. Big fan of Walgreens over here.

Walgreens. On the dateline, they got the shots of the Walgreens. Very nice Walgreens, upscale area. Emmett gets home, and Ashley has prepared a wonderful meal, got the kids all decked out and all their best. Poor Ashley. She thinks it's going to be great times, and probably, you know, Ashley's probably open for sexy times with Emmett. And unfortunately, Emmett picks a fight with her. Ooh.

Because, you know, Emmett's got— Because Emmett's a dick. He's got someplace to be. So he picks the fight and says, I got to go to Walgreens because I've got a cold. And so— It's the old cold defense. So he goes to Walgreens also. And, of course, they're talking to each other on the way there.

And they both get to Walgreens. And Candy gets out of her car and gets in Emmett's car and they take off to do some sexy timesing in an area where they're building some houses and there's some empty streets. And so in the truck, they are doing the sexy times while Rob and Ashley are at home kind of wondering, when are they coming back from Walgreens? You know, it usually doesn't take that long to go to Walgreens. Well, interestingly enough, the 17-year-old daughter, remember I told you that Candy and Rob had two kids. The daughter's 17 by now.

Yeah. And the daughter sees her mom's car, BMW by the way, at the Walgreens. And she knows stuff's up, so she calls her mom for some reason. And her mom says, well, I'm out with Linda. This is a little bit like the fake boyfriends. I'm out with Linda, my friend, and she didn't buy it because the car's sitting at Walgreens. They didn't go out with a friend to Walgreens. No. So she calls her dad. Yeah.

This is where it gets a little dicey. So she calls dad and says, hey, I see mom's car at Walgreens, and she's not here, but she says she's with Linda. What do you think? Well, Rob decides it's time for him to call Candy's phone and see what the deal is. So he calls Candy's phone. Candy picks up. Where are you? Well, I'm with Emmett, and we're just talking.

Oh, well, she's an idiot. Yeah. You know, again, she has trouble keeping her story straight. This seems like a really easy one to keep straight, though. Not the sharpest tool in the shed. Okay. Okay? So she says she's with Emmett.

Emmett then grabs the phone and says, what's up, chief? Doesn't that sound like what you'd say? Okay, so nasty talk ensues. You know, Rob is saying, hey, why are you with my wife? Why aren't you with your five kids? Hey, you know, I'm with your wife. She doesn't love you. She loves me.

Kind of goes back and forth. And this is on the phone now. So this is cool. It's on the phone. Rob hangs up. And like you do, Rob goes and gets his pistol. He has a small pistol. Now, interestingly enough, this pistol was a gift from Candy a few months earlier.

Now, here's some advice, more legal advice. Don't buy your spouse a gun if you are having relationships with other men. It could escalate. Dad, that's just good common sense advice. That's literally giving them ammo. I learned that in that five weeks I was in that pre-law class.

Yeah. So he gets his pistol, he puts on his hoodie, and he puts the pistol in the little pouch in front there because, you know, he might have to use it

because he's going to Walgreens. And so in the Dateline episode, you know. That is amazing to me. I don't even put my wallet in those little hoodies

because I'm afraid of it falling out. I can't imagine. It could fall out. Okay. Oh. You is amazing to me. I don't even put my wallet in those little hoodies because I'm afraid of it falling out. I can't imagine. It could fall out. Okay. Oh. You may be onto something. Okay.

According to some theories. Okay. Oh. So he goes there and we've got video of him wandering the store. Oh. And of course, they're not there. So he comes back out and moves his truck and he's parked right next to Candy's BMW. Oh, boy.

So she's going to wait for her. Unfortunately, it's off camera. So we don't see anything that happens after this. So this is all basically Candy's story or in some cases Rob's story and in some cases Emmett's story as to what happened afterwards. Okay, so Emmett and Candy show up. And again, it's off camera, but it's around 9 o'clock by this time. Store's closed. People are leaving.

There's no one there. For 17 minutes, the three of them are having a conversation. And it's getting loud because we're unhappy and we've got sexy times happening between multiple people. And so at some point, after everybody clears out, the thing becomes a little physical between the men. And they start shoving each other a little bit. Mashed potato face. Mashed potato versus bodybuilder? Yeah, that's not good.

You wouldn't think so. Mashed potato versus touch potato. Mashed potato has a gun, though. He has a gun. Oh, that's true. I forgot mashed potato right there. Mashed potato has a gun, though. He has a gun. Oh, that's true. I forgot mashed potato was armed. So Candy claims that when this started going down, she was just so upset, she turned away. Oh, bullshit.

No way. Candy. Oh, my. You ladies do not believe Candy at all. No. No. Candy saw the whole thing. So when Candy turns away, she hears pop, pop, and then a pause, and then another pop.

So she hears three shots. She turns around. Rob is standing there, and he's kind of struggling to keep his feet, and he's bleeding from his head. And Emmett is on the ground. What? Are they both shot? They're both shot. What?

They are both shot. How? Okay, we got different stories here. Candy's story changes many, many times, but we'll get to it. Well, she didn't see anything. She didn't see anything. So she goes over and grabs her lover, Emmett, and kisses him. The man's been shot through the heart and through the head.

What? She goes to Emmett? Well, that's who she loves now. Fuck off, Candy. And the man's dead, so, I mean, he's not feeling the love. Yeah. He's dead? He's got it through the heart and through the head. This was an execution-style deal.

Oh, that's rough. And then she says she sees the gun. It's sitting on the ground between she and Rob, and she goes up and grabs it. Rob shoot Emmett, and then he was going to kill himself. Murder-suicide? No. No, no, no. Let's see.

Let's see. Rob shot Emmett. There was no third shot. Candy sees the gun. She is the one who shoots Rob. Oh! Right? Kristen, that's a pretty wild theory.

That is a good one! That's good! No, no, no, no. That's not a good theory. That's not a good theory. That's totally what happens. Here's the situation. The gun is between the two of them, between Rob, her husband, and herself. She grabs the gun and throws it into the situation. The gun is between the two of them,

between Rob, her husband, and herself. She grabs the gun and throws it into the street. Oh, that explanation for why her fingerprints are on it. Kristen, I'm liking your theory. Thank you. Okay, so she calls 911. Of course, you hear the 911 call. The 911 call is, oh my God, there's been a shooting.

Oh, here we are at Walgreens. Please come, please come. So the police show up and they've got a dead man and they've got a guy with a severe head wound. Actually, I shouldn't say severe. It was a glancing blow. A glancing blow!

Was Candy not a very good shot? Is that what you're saying? We don't know that Candy shot him. It's a glancing blow and it just took off some skin, and head wounds bleed a lot, and it didn't even hit his skull at all. Yeah. So he's good from that point. And so the police have to send him to the hospital. He's arrested because they said he shot the other guy. Yeah.

Because they said he shot the other guy. Yeah. And so he's arrested, but they can't really interview him because he's got a concussion, and now he's on medication, so he's in the hospital. So now they're talking to Candy, and this is a wild, wild story. So Candy, when asked if there was a relationship between she and Emmett, said, well, no. He's my boss. He's boss-employee, just any boss-employee relationship. Oh, boy. Now, well, no. He's my boss. He's boss, employee, just any boss-employee relationship.

Now, here's how sharp this lady is. Half the city knows. That's what I was going to say. Come on. You'd say yes. So the police, you know how they get the opportunity to ask questions over and over again? Yeah. They say, have you ever been intimate with Emmett? No.

One more try. Have you ever had a sexual relationship? Maybe they thought she didn't know what intimate meant. Oh, that's what you're asking. Yeah. Intimate. I'm getting what you're saying now. Intimate is out of my vocabulary. No, she says no. Now, I have a theory that if they had said, have you ever sexy timed Emmett? She would have said yes, but they didn't ask it and she didn't say it. They really need to be better trained. So the bottom line is from that night and for several days, Candy changes her story a hundred times. Because she's lying.

Every time she tells it, it comes out better in Rob's favor. But what we end up with in court is a couple of different versions of what happened. So we'll hear about that. But the bottom line is Candy can't keep her story straight. Just like some of the other folks

in our Cheaters episodes can't. So the prosecutors for a few months worked on the case, built all the forensic evidence and everything like that. And then they said, let's go to court. So in court, here's the defense. Here's the defense's argument. Rob is a good guy. Rob, he'd love to testify. a good guy.

Uh-huh. Rob, he can't, he'd love to testify, but the poor guy has some amnesia from the head wound and all the medications he was put on immediately afterwards, so he can't testify. Emmett, however, bad guy. Bad guy. Super bad guy. Jerk, cheater, drugs, you name it, bad guy. So obviously, it's good guy, bad guy thing. For sure.

Here's their story. And this is what they say that Rob has told them happened. The two started tussling, and Emmett shoved Rob so hard that the gun came out of the pouch. Which was, Kristen was worried about stuff. Yeah, worried about her cell phone. I was concerned. Which was, Kristen was worried about her cell phone. I was concerned. And Emmett picked up the gun and shot Rob and just glanced off his head.

And here's where it does. And then he handed the gun to Rob and was like, here, Rob, it's your turn now. Shoot me. Mashed potato overcame Jack. Oh, okay. He overcame him. Grabbed the gun. Boom, boom. Two shots. him, grabbed the gun, boom, boom, two shots, dead on.

That's completely believable. That's where it happened. And also, Candy testified to all this. Sure. Now, the interesting thing about Candy's video tape of him saying, this is the worst witness in my 31 years on the bench. Nothing she says is credible. And that is just based on her testimony in court. Holy crap. And if you go back to what she had originally told police and how she changed that time and time and time again, and now you get in court and she's changing it. And the judge told the prosecutor and the defense attorneys, and this is in a private session, that it appears that she wants to tell the person who's in front of her what they want to hear as opposed to having any regard for the truth. And so while she was called by the defense, it didn't work.

Did not work. It didn't work. So the prosecutors, you've got to put this together now. It's not a slam dunk, but it's pretty good. So they went for first-degree murder, but they had second-degree murder on the table as well. They thought, you know, he brought the gun. Yeah.

We can show it's premeditated. It's premeditated. So we should be able to get first degree. Right. But we'll take second. All the gun residue was on Rob. Emmett had no gun residue. Wow.

Candy had no gun residue. It was all on Rob. Here's what they say happened. Okay. Lay it on us. Also, no DNA evidence. Evidence, yeah. That anyone else handled the gun except Rob.

Got it. They say they got up close together within a few feet of each other. Rob pulled out the gun, shot him in the heart, shot him in the head, and then turned the gun around either in an attempt to make it look like self-defense or a botched suicide attempt and shot himself across the top of the head. Sounds a lot like what I said. That's their, that is.

If only it were correct. Yeah, I don't buy it. You don't buy that story? I don't buy that version. You know, I could see that. I could see it maybe. But I could also think that. I think your version's way better.

Thank you. In the made-for-TV movie, we go with my version. Okay, this trial lasted two weeks because we had to bring up all the witnesses that said what a good guy Rob is. Yeah, of course. A bad guy. And Candy's a mess. all those kind of things they deliberated the jury deliberated for seven hours wow on the first degree charge guilty not guilty wow not guilty first degree. Second degree, guilty.

So guilty on second degree, 30 years in prison, 17 and a half before eligible for parole. Wow. So got a pretty strong sentence there. Yeah. Now, let me tell you something interesting. This is a good twist at the end of this. Candy goes to jail as well. What does Candy go to jail for, do you think?

Tampering with evidence? Nope. Ooh. Perjury. as well. What does Candy go to jail for, do you think? Tampering with evidence? Nope. Perjury. Is it related to... Not perjury. That's a good one. I'm digging back deep. Is it related to how she was fired the first time? Bingo.

Oh! What'd she do? She stole $30,000 from that attorney. That's why a good employee gets fired. Yeah. They're good at everything, including stealing money from you. Yep. And so about the same time, so they're not going to go after her when she's in the middle of this murder trial.

Yeah. But afterwards, they go after her. She pleads guilty. Uh-huh. Do you know what the sentence is for stealing $30,000 in Idaho? Like a year? 14 years. Holy shit!

No way! She got almost as much as... Well, now, wait a minute, though. Because 17... Well, before he'll be eligible for parole. He got 17 and a half before parole. That's crazy. Okay, now, here's the deal, though.

She only had to spend two years in prison. Oh, okay. Because it was a hard two, and then she spent the rest. She gets out. Well, that seems kind of serious. That's crazy, though. Holy shit. Okay, now think about this, though.

Two teenage girls, 18 and 14. Mom and dad are both in prison. Yeah, what happens? This is kind of a mess. We don't get a lot of information about what happens. 18-year-old has to watch the sister, probably. I'm guessing a family member probably will step in. I hope family members, yeah.

So Candy spends a little time in jail.. So Candy spends a little time in jail as well. Yeah. Candy spends a little time in jail as well. You haven't given your father a beverage, Kristen. I offered many times. I've got a Dr. Pepper sitting right over here that Brandy brought for me. Thank you, Brandy, for the gift. Jeez.

You're welcome. Gave a little DP for DP. Yeah, thanks, Brandy, for bringing my dad a DP. No problem. Okay, so another interesting fact. So in 2014, they appealed Rob's sentence to the appellate court in Idaho, and he lost. In 2016, they went to the Idaho Supreme Court. Wow, Brandi.

Sorry. I'm sorry. Where'd you go there? A little late on that one. They lost air as well. So he's still in prison. Okay. Now, I need to start watching Dr. Phil.

Yeah. Because as I'm researching this, there's a Dr. Phil episode about this. Yeah, yeah. And Candy and Ashley are on Dr. Phil together. No! I kid you not. What? Ashley has had to get a restraining order against Candy

because evidently Candy's wanting to, you know, Oh, good grief. rekindle the relationship. And so the restraining orders drop for one day. So they can be on Dr. Phil. Yeah, that's insane. And let me tell you, I watched this Dr. Phil. This was fantastic.

He's pretty great. Ashley comes off like a saint. Ashley has got the five kids. Uh-huh. Yeah. She's written three books. Her husband's been murdered. Yeah.

This lady's life has fallen apart. She's a motivational speaker now. Wow. And she's written the three books. And she handled herself really, really well. She's emotional motivational speaker now, and she's written the three books, and she handles herself really, really well. She's emotional. She cries, but she kind of lays it out there and just basically tells Candy who she is. Candy, on the other hand, they aren't allowed.

Evidently, they worked a deal so they wouldn't talk about her being in prison for two years for stealing, but they did talk all about the situation. being in prison for two years for stealing. But they did talk all about the situation. And Candy, she kind of tried to, you know, she had some memorized lines about how what I did was wrong and I shouldn't have done it and I apologize. But the whole rest of the time, she's kind of defending herself and she comes off terribly. I'm sorry if you were offended that I had sex with your husband.

Yeah, probably so. So the good news here is when you look at that episode that really kind of wraps this case up, you see that Ashley, the total victim, has done really, really well. She's remarried now and by all accounts is doing well

from all aspects. Has overcome one of the most negative things a person can overcome. Oh, for sure. And she's doing well. And Candy appears to be the same lying, cheating lady that she was before. Sack of Tuscan potatoes. Randy, my dad's right here.

So when I saw this one, I really liked the episode. But when it came down that she went to jail for stealing the money, I thought, oh, this is a twist we've got to go with. That's a good twist. That was good.

Okay, well, You did good. That was great. Yeah, that was really, really good. Thank you. It's time for my bathroom break. Yeah,

probably time for you to pee. Okay, are we ready for mine? Yes. I was very excited. You didn't say anything. Oh, yes. Oh, I'm excited about you.

Oh, boy. Let me warn you, folks. This is a good one. Oh. Are you saying it's better than ours? Much. Wow. We'll decide.

Okay. We'll be the judges of that. This comes from an episode of 2020 called Toxic Love. Let's talk about Valerie McDaniel. Valerie was in her late 40s and she was super successful. She was a veterinarian and she and her husband had a clinic together. They lived in River Oaks, which 2020 described as the Beverly Hills of Houston, Texas.

They're doing great. On the weekends, if you think they were hanging out in Houston, you're wrong. They had a $700,000 beach home where they lived it up. Where was it at? On the beach. I was it at? On the beach.

I was going to say that same thing. Valerie was pretty happy. She loved karaoke, cooking, and throwing parties, and she loved her nine-year-old daughter. There was just one thing that wasn't great in her life. It was her relationship with her husband, Mac. Mac was her partner in business and in life,

but he was kind of doing his own thing. He said he was really into hunting, but she didn't buy it. She suspected that he was cheating on her. Those long hunting trips weren weren't uh really hunting for animals hunting for the ladies i was gonna say hunting for ass

brandy let's class it up come on come on this is a family show is it unfortunately one day a woman called the clinic and told valerie hey i've got a list of women women who your husband has slept with oh sexy timed with sexy i hate to tell you this and valerie wasn't surprised uh how long is the list what you guys saying i don't have any more details on the list. Just the fact that there was a list. Valerie kind of believed it, but, you know. It's not like a Wilt Chamberlain list or anything like that.

I don't think so. Who's Wilt Chamberlain? A basketball player. Excellent. She's such a jerk to me. I didn't think you knew, so I'm glad she asked. Who did he play for in college? Are you kidding me? University of Miami.

No, Brandi knows. Kansas Jayhawks. See, she asks me these deep level questions. Where did he go to high school? How tall was he? What's his tattoo say? I don't know any of this stuff. Where did he go to college where'd my aunt go to grammar school it is the same to me but i know the answer to that yes you do you know the answer to both questions so she decides this is bad but i'm just gonna stick it

out but then one day she met a doctor named leon jacob he was the son of her next door neighbor first names yeah i like when also is this like a veterinary doctor or is this a doctor of uh doctor of people a doctor i think is this a doctor of medicine? Doctor of people. A doctor of people? I think it's called doctor of medicine. Oh, really? Doctor of people.

That'd be a doctor of sociology, wouldn't it? Doctor of people. Okay, geez, gosh. Gonna cut all this out. She was drawn to him and after he saw her in a swimsuit he was drawn to her too but neither one of them was available yeah yeah good bone structure you know veterinarians they they don't do much with their hair they don't do much with their makeup just you know the natural beauty of a veterinarian so we're talking a standard deviation away from the norm here yeah okay all right you know neither one of

them was available though valerie was married and leon was in a serious relationship but in the spring of 2017 that all changed after 17 years of marriage valerie decided, I'm done. She filed for divorce. And it was a tough one. She had to take out a massive loan to buy her ex-husband's share of the business. I want to say $1.2 million. It was somewhere in that range. They decided to split custody of their daughter. And eventually, Leon and his girlfriend, Megan, split up.

So Valerie andon start dating and pretty quickly leon moves in things are going great valerie is totally in love and how could she not be because leon is a chick magnet he describes himself as an alpha male with a heart of gold. He's an avid golfer and skier, and he works out a ton, and he's also very aware of the effect he has on women. Was this a Tinder profile you're reading here? Here's a quote from the episode. Without sounding pompous, I've always understood women really well and they've always really liked me okay wow without sounding pompous i don't mean to brag but i'm really

fucking amazing wow i would think i would think brady was bragging just then but she said i don't mean to brag so weirdly though and this is very strange valerie's friends didn't think he was such a great catch weird i know well they were wrong obviously valerie's friend maggie thought leon was arrogant and full of himself on a level that she'd never seen in any human before maggie went to Valerie and said, hey, I don't like this guy. I've got a bad feeling. But Valerie was like, you're wrong. She was saying, you're jealous. You're jealous of me with my hot new boyfriend.

Who could not be? He was an alpha male with a heart of gold, Dad. Come on. They had so much in common. They were so smart smart they were both doctors but turns out leon kind of sucked at being a doctor he'd been fired from two residency programs in 2011 he got canned for being quote an immediate threat to patient safety. Ooh. Yeah. How old does he go? How old is he?

He looked to be 40s, you know. He wasn't great with money either. In 2016, he filed for bankruptcy. Also, even though he super understood women and women always really liked him, his arrest record said otherwise. His wife Annie filed for divorce after 11 years of marriage, and she later filed charges against him for aggravated stalking. Oh, wow. In one voicemail, Leon told Annie, I'm going to fucking hurt you. I'm going to fucking hurt your parents right in front of you.

Do you understand me? Where was that heart of gold coming from? Yeah. And guys, I know that sounded bad, but don't worry, because in the episode of 2020, Leon explained the whole thing.

Somebody got his phone and texted that? No. He said, she went a little overboard with her complaints about me. Yeah. Well, you got to put her back in her place. So obviously that was all Annie's fault. We can all agree to that. After that, he started dating a woman named Megan.

And believe it or not, things didn't go great in that relationship either. Here's a transcript of the 2020 interview. And I don't know the interviewer's name, but he's the guy who looks kind of like Clark Kent. Do you guys know that one? Why are you... I dragged a picture! Is it Christopher Reeves?

No, it's not Christopher Reeves! No, he's like the super handsome guy who knows he's super handsome. I just love the way Brandy, she'll take a joke that I thought was like moderately funny. And we're what, 30 seconds later, she's still laughing so hard she can can't speak this is why i think i'm so funny when really i'm not oh man here's the transcript interviewer according to the police report you busted her lip when you put a hand on her leon um okay um that's true I never put a hand on her. We were fighting. I probably shouldn't have put my hand even near her face.

I didn't touch her in any way. I was simply trying to calm her, but she bit my hand. And at that time, she bit her own lip. And subsequently, that charge has been dropped because there was no evidence. Okay. So it's true that those charges were dropped megan was done with leon she said she basically dumped him and was like hey okay leave me alone yeah go away forever hey can i throw something else here his explanation of that uh biting of the lip and everything

reminds me of when homer simpson said he wasn't going to eat the sandwich. He was just going to be chomping his jaw up and down. And if the sandwich came toward his lips, he wouldn't actually be eating it. He would just be a victim of the sandwich. That's true. I think that's what happened to him. So she said, leave me alone. But he didn't. He called her.

He emailed her. He texted her. He hid in the bushes outside her job. Yeah, that's stalking. So in the 2020, 2020, 2020, 2020 episode, they were like, you hid outside in the bushes. And he was like, there aren't even bushes out there. I was like, that's your defense? I was looking at her windows, but there weren't even bushes.

You know, the people who want to go on camera and talk about the bad stuff they've done, I mean, they're attention whores or there's some kind of problem because they never come off. They come off worse after the fact, but they must think they're going to kick butt in that. Oh, yeah. I think they 100% believe that they're going to convince everybody that they're being 100%, 100% truthful and get sympathy. Or is it possible?

They just want the, they can't, they can't stay away from the attention. I mean, that's. Yeah. But I think, I think part of it is because.

They think that people will fall in love. Yes. If they can just get out, get in front of them. Because they're so charming. Yeah. Here's the thing, though, about this is that at the end, you will see that Leon really is a good guy. Oh, wow.

You're full of shit. It's leading that way. You're such a liar. No, Brandy. Brandy. Brandy, did you hear? There's not even bushes out there. So you tell me who's guilty of stalking.

I'm disappointed Brandy's not. She's coming down against this guy. I think he's got the heart of gold. So go ahead. I want to hear more heart of gold stories.

It's like she doesn't respect alpha males. I know. So, Leon also had a perfectly reasonable explanation for this one, too. Megan was lying. She was full of crap.

Mm-hmm. So, to sum things up, Leon is in love with Valerie. He moved in with her right away. Life is good, except for the fact that he is the victim of Megan's lies. Ah, yes. Things are looking good for him peanut didn't care for that at all she got the big sigh peanuts on my side the thing is he's got this stalking charge looming over his head and texas won't grant you a medical license if you've got a felony on your record so he's like oh no if i get convicted how am i going to be a practicing

doctor and i'm such a great doctor not at all a threat to patient safety no then it hit him the solution kill megan yeah yeah no megan no felony yeah yeah well if you've already got one felony what's another one? You know, if you get caught. So I'm with him on this. I understand. I totally get this guy. The juice is worth the squeeze.

That's what you're saying. I don't even know what that means. Is that some kind of dirty thing you're talking about? What'd you say you wanted to squeeze, Brandy? The benefit outweighs the risk. Oh. Oh, I was thinking you were talking to Brandy. Okay.

I got you now. So Leon starts talking to this guy named Zach. Zach is a former Army sergeant. He's probably a great guy. All Zachs are great guys. Really? guy. All Zachs are great guys. Really? Yeah. All Zachs are great guys.

All Brads are blonde. All Candies are either strippers or the heads of their companies. All, what else was I going to say? Oh, all Marks are Canadian. Mm-hmm. Yep. Did you already cover Dee Dee? Oh, no.

All Dee Dees are terrible. Yeah. Okay. That covers it. Do you have any theories you'd like to? What are Brandy's and Kristen's? Amazing and beautiful. Duh.

I should have known. I don't even know why I asked. Yeah. My bad. My bad for asking. So Leon tells Zach what he wants and Zach is like, sure, no problem. You give me five grand, two Cartier watches and a laptop and I'll kill Megan no no you know this Zach is given Zach's a bad name well the five grand have you ever noticed

and he's wanting extra stuff but it's always five grand and all these murder for hire deals yeah it's five grand yeah it's way too cheap okay Okay, here, wait, I have a serious, important question. Okay. Is it Zach with an H? That's probably, I bet that's it. I don't know how he spells his name, because I pay no attention to the spelling, since I feel like I'm never going to. You'd ask?

Yeah. You think it's weird if somebody would ask how you spell Zach? Zach with a K is awesome. Zach with a K, that's just the wrong spelling, though. That's the correct spelling if you ask Zach. And the other way is Zachary. Can't argue with that. That's for people who can't read good.

So, easy peasy, lemon squeezy. five grand two watches a laptop excellent boom murder leon is like sure he gives zach all that stuff but zach possibly with an h did not honor the terms of their agreement what did they have this in writing? Because I kind of feel like I've got to put this in writing. It was in writing. They could take it to Judge Judy. And Judge Judy says, go murder that woman now. So he took all the money and all that stuff,

but he didn't kill anybody. Leon was pissed. He's like, I have to find Zach. And I bet you I will because I'm great at stalking. Only when there's bushes. His first stop was Kibosh Bailbonding. He goes to the owner, Michael Kibosh. By the way, on the sign, the S is a dollar sign.

Oh, I like that. Just so you know. Wait a minute, that's a real last name, Kibosh? Come on. Oh oh i'm not buying it well i mean he looks like santa claus and he owns a bail bonding thing i okay i don't know what to tell you okay all right so michael kibosh was the head of was the guy who bailed leon out of jail when he was arrested on that stalking charge who's phone? Yeah, I'm guessing it's your father's iPad. Okay, we need to get that out of here

because it keeps dinging. Oh, yeah, I just put it in your sweatshirt there. That'll take care of it. Boy. These guest people. He just leaves. It doesn't come back. I don't know how to put up with this.

I'm not sure this is going to be worth the $2,000 fee. You're right on the border right now. I'm going to charge you an extra $1,000 if you give me any more trouble. Will you accept two watches and a laptop instead? No, I'll need checks or I would take cash. Okay. I would take cash. So, according to Michael,

Leon came to him and said, oh my gosh. Brandi, seriously, I said I will take cash and you're still laughing. You're crying. You're laughing so hard you're crying. You want me to say it and see if Brandy cannot laugh this time? Let's hear it. Well, I'd like checks

but I will take cash. Oh, she's hear it. Well, I'd like checks, but I will take cash. Oh, she's still there. You can tell she didn't want to laugh, too. She tried not to. Here, hook her up with a Kleenex. Snot-free, please. That one in his pocket still has some Kleenex. It's got some spots on it.

Some open real estate on it. The good news is if you wait long enough, it dries out. Oh, Chris, she's got the whole game figured out now. You think he's got the kind of money to buy just extra boxes of Kleenex all willy-nilly? Brandi, I'm wearing $15 tennis shoes right now. You think I can afford a new box of Kleenex? tennis shoes right now. You think I can afford a new box of Kleenex?

Okay, so according to Michael, Leon came to him and said, I need to find this guy, Zach. I gave him a lot of money to take care of a problem. Michael said, take care of what?

You know, a wink wink. So Leon mentioned Megan and said, take care of what? You know, a wink, wink. Uh-huh. So Leon mentioned Megan and said, I want her out of the picture. Michael was like, yikes, I don't want any part of this. He's like, I can Photoshop way cheaper than that. What? Out of the picture. Out of the picture, Kristen.

You've got to explain the jokes to kristen he called the cops and the cops immediately went to megan they said megan here's the deal your terrifying ex-boyfriend even more terrifying than you imagined yeah we need to get you somewhere safe so they got her out of the house and then they tracked down zach they put the pressure on him and zach was like whoa hang on you guys i never had any intention to kill anybody i just wanted this free stuff i could get yes yeah police are like okay but if you want to get out of this without getting into trouble you'd better start working with us so So Zach says, okay, whatever you need me to do. Zach calls Leon. He says, hey, good news.

I've got this guy. He's going to do the hit for us. And Leon's like, all right, about damn time. So Zach connects Leon with Javier, the hitman, who is really Javier, the undercover. The police officer. Yep. The two of them are talking on the phone. Javier, the hitman, who is really Javier, the undercover cop. The two of them are talking on the phone, and it gets kind of weird. Police are listening in on the call, and here's what they overhear. Leon, we're taking care of both problems?

Javier, what both problems? Leon Both of the individuals that we're talking about Who's the second one? Valerie? Zach No? Not Valerie, not Zach?

No Oh Think about it Leon and Valerie are together They're in love Oh, Valerie's husband Mm-hmm Think about it. Leon and Valerie are together. They're in love. Oh, Valerie's husband. Mm-hmm.

Oh, yeah. The cheating ex-husband. But don't we really need to get rid of Zach, too, because the guy did not pull off what he was supposed to, and he knows all about it. He connected us with Javier the hitman. Yeah, but he knows all about it. You don't want extra witnesses out there running around. Well, when you do your hit, you do it your way.

Okay. I think I'll do it better than this. Have you ever noticed when you read these cases and watch this stuff, you're like, I'd be smarter than that. Brandy and I have these conversations all the time. Yeah, like people are dumb. Well, the ones who get caught.

Yeah. That's true. We're not hearing about the guy who's off in Aspen. Yeah, that's right. We're not hearing about the guy who's off in Aspen. Yeah, that's right. Exactly. The police are like, holy shit. We've got a two for one. They find out that not only does Leon want Megan killed, but Leon wants Valerie's ex-husband Mac murdered, too.

Javier is up to the task. He's like, sounds good. Why don't we all meet up in person? Is he getting a buy one, get one free deal here? Oh, no, no, no. Oh, I would have gone. See, if I were. Yeah, at least a punch card deal or something.

Yeah. Like you're two in, you get your, I don't know. And I feel like Leon's got a lot of people he'd like to kill. And I'm guessing Javier is up for it. Regardless of how, you know, the number. He's a go-getter. He is. He's not going-getter. He is. He's not going to back away from any of these.

But you've got to get a volume discount. You can't pay five grand and two Cartier watches. What was the other thing? A laptop. A laptop. A laptop. That's a computer. You know, I've got one of those Commodore 360s, and it's working fine.

I bought it 36 years ago at Costco. I've got one of those Commodore 360s, and it's working fine. I bought it 36 years ago at Costco. You just need Norm to come over and take a look at it. Yeah, so what's this laptop you're talking about? You know, that's Norm's favorite thing to do. Do maintenance on computers that should have been thrown away 10 years ago. Well, see, I'm looking at this table, and Brandy's got this nice laptop. Kristen, you've got a nice laptop. I've got like eight pieces of paper in front of me, so I am low-tech.

And not even regular. You've got legal-sized paper. Legal-sized. It's because I did a legal case, you know, the paralegal and the lawyer. I wanted legal-sized paper. He sprung for the nice notebook for us. Yeah. So, Valerie, Leon, Zach, and Javier all agreed to meet at the Olive Garden.

Why are all of your cases at restaurants? I love it. I love it so much. They're going to plan a murder at Olive Garden. They got one of the round corner booths. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 2020 had a good time with this.

They were like, and they ordered something not on the menu. So they're chit-chatting over the breadsticks and the bottomless salads. And Leon says. Sounds so good. See, I don't like Olive Garden. i only like the bread sticks in the salad i don't like the food so you just go there quickly arrange you that for lunch and arrange a hit bread sticks salad and you're out. What about spaghetti and meatballs? No. They don't salt their pasta. Oh, my God. Well, no, that's a thing.

Is that a thing? Well, you've got to, when you put pasta in the pan to boil, you've got to put salt in the water. What happens if you don't? It's bland. I don't like salty stuff. I've never done that ever.

You can't be trusted. You also don't like mayo in your dips. I don't. Or avocado. I don't. Brandi your dips i don't or avocado i don't brandy are you a good cook or not yeah okay but you just didn't know about the salty pasta thing i don't like salty so i don't put salt on anything okay what a cook is she if she's not not using salt and cookies yeah her cookies are amazing leavening agent when added to baking soda i don't even know what that means.

Yesterday at the salon, we were talking about this. Brandy could have her own YouTube show where she just says things to people in a condescending voice. And that little clip there of, it's a leavening agent. Like you're the dumbest person on earth. You've got to do it on YouTube because you've got to get that smart-ass look. You need to see that. And I've noticed her arms are always crossed when she says something in that tone. I think I was doing a highlight when I said it yesterday.

And you managed to cross your arms as you did it. And I don't know what you're talking about because my hair is naturally this way. Bore that sit on your forehead too do we need to tell that story okay so yesterday i got my hair done at brandy salon and anytime you do my hair like when i go out that night everybody's like oh wow because you know you do like the curls, you do the style, you know, it just looks awesome. So last night, the thing I had to do after I got my hair done was go pick up my niece and take her to skating practice. And I noticed that the whole time, like people were looking at me and kind of smiling at me. And I thought it was because I was so good looking. Yeah.

And my hair was so beautiful that they were like, who is this woman? I was just feeling great. Yeah. Your feet practically don't touch the ground anymore because you're like floating on sunshine. I went, you know, we got her paid up for the next round of classes, took her home. I was getting Allie ready for bed, and she goes, what's that on your face?

And I was like, what do you mean? So I went into the mirror, looked in the mirror, and there was like black soot all over my forehead and like down by my eye. It looked kind of like mike tyson's face tattoo except all smudgy except all smudgy so i grabbed a washcloth i was like oh my gosh and i was like ali how long have i had that on my face and she goes um i noticed it in the car i was like oh okay and while i was skating and i said was it there when i was paying the check and talking to the lady yeah and i started laughing i said ally why didn't you say anything and she just started laughing

so it turns out people were not looking at me thinking i was super hot they they might they still might have we don't know that but they were also looking at you for yes yeah well that's the plot twist in that story kristen you could you could take it in a posi way and say they were looking at both and they were wondering why does such a beautiful young woman have soot on her face

that's exactly what they were thinking okay thank you dad yeah definitely so they're chit chatting and I wonder what amazing

person does her hair no no one was thinking that they were thinking she's gotta be born with it the soot and the curls in her hair maybe she's born with it. The soot and the curls in her hair. Maybe she's born with it. Maybe it's Brandy.

So they all show up to the Olive Garden. Yeah. Are you ready for a genius move? Yeah. Let me just ask. You're showing up to arrange for someone to be murdered. Yeah. What do you wear to that meeting?

I'd wear all black. Black outfit, black stocking cap, dark glasses, and maybe smudge some soot on my face. Yeah, disguise. That's right. I'd be incognito. You want to blend in. That's not a great idea because you really want to blend in. I don't usually wear that, so they're going to see me the next day someplace

and they're going to say, no, that's not the guy who was there. That guy was all soot-faced and he had a black Stein cap and the sunglasses. Oh, okay. No, they're not going to. It's a totally great idea I have. Okay. Okay. I think you just want to blend it and you want to wear it.

So would you get rid of the blue in your hair for this occasion, Brandy? Ooh, Brandy's got the blue. I would put my hair in a bun and hide the blue. Oh, that's a good idea. You can strategically place it in a bun and you won't see it. Hey, Brandy, could you do the blue hair for me? Could you blue hair me? Yeah. I can grow it out a little bit

if I had to. I mean, you'd have to grow it out a little bit. That body wash is going to strip it right out. It doesn't stay? No, you're washing your hair with zest. Well, what do you wash your hair with that keeps the blue? Color safe shampoo. You're going to make me buy something?

No, forget it. I'm out. This is going to cost you money. I'm out. I just told you how I spend zero money. I bet it's been 15 years I've spent no money on hair, and now you've got me getting blue hair.

You're not going to do that for free either, are you? No. I think when you have no hair, you don't have to tell people you spend no money on hair. Well, I just got to brag, though. You've got to let people know. Because some people, they'd have hair hair like this and they would actually pay for somebody to cut it.

Yeah. My lovely wife, Sherry, cuts my own hair because. Cuts my own hair. Cuts my hair. Cuts my own hair. How do you say it? Cuts my hair. Cuts my hair.

It's not her own hair. She cuts my own hair. I'm sticking with that. So she cuts my hair and does a wonderful job by the way she has to do a one guard all over oh she's not mom's not getting the respect from brandy that she deserves are you saying this is easy yeah okay what would you charge me oh well it's not easy then if you're charging 18 bucks i'm i'm pleased that sherry is able to cut my hair for free.

Yeah. She has rarely charged me. Yeah. And our granddaughter helps sometimes. And I get no charge there either. That's good. Does she let you know when you've got stuff all over your face? She would probably not let me walk around in public with a big black smudge on my face.

That's true love. Okay. Okay. Back to it. So we face. That's true love. Okay. Okay. Back to it. So we've established what we would wear. Yeah. For a hit. Valerie went in a slightly different direction.

You guys wanted to go disguise route. You guys wanted to blend in. Valerie wore her scrubs with her lab coat that said her name on it. Oh, for fuck's sake. I mean, oh, for sexy time's sake. Oh, gross. So they're chit-chatting, and Leon says, hey, I've got an idea. When you kill Megan,

why don't you inject her with potassium chloride? Eventually, Leon and Zach step out for a smoke break. Valerie and Javier are alone at the table and Javier says to her, are you sure you want to do this? And she said, I have no other choice. He's going to take my baby from me. She was worried Mac might get sole custody. So she had no

choice. That would keep that from happening. I've got to admit it's good logic there. It would keep it from happening. I think got to admit it's good logic there. It would keep it from happening. I think you've got to be a little more subtle when you're... Yeah. Okay. So Javier says, okay, but that'll be $10,000. And Valerie says, that's

fine. But here's the thing. My divorce was super expensive. Can you put me on an installment plan? I don't think Hitman can take payment plans. This one does. The good ones do. That's because he's fake. No, no, the good ones do.

The good ones do. Yeah, they'll put you on the, what, one month? No, I mean one year. 36-month no interest. No interest, yeah. It's like a Nebraska merger bar card. If they start trying to charge you interest, I say no. That's where I draw the line.

Yeah, we're not doing interest. So police are like, this is excellent excellent we have all of this recorded we've got some video fantastic next they go to mac and megan they're like you guys your exes are dirt bags and now we need you to pose for a photo shoot fake fake dead yes oh nice so megan and mac are like all right so it starts with mac he poses in his car with his face against the steering wheel so he's smooshed up against it there's pig's blood dribbling down from his head he's got his sunglasses on then they took one of him just lying in the grass with blood at the back of his head you know like he'd been hit by a bullet megan got the more dramatic photo shoot i feel like maybe she was the

better actor of the two of them they put her in what looked to be from the photo like a dirty storage unit and they had her on a chair with her hands zip tied in front of her duct tape across the mouth and i guess during this she got kind of emotional so she really was crying in the photo shoot yeah i could see getting emotional during that well yeah because you're like this i'm doing this because my ex is trying to have me murdered yeah yeah Javier, the hitman, goes to Valerie and Leon's condo. He tells them the news. Mac is dead. He says, you guys want to see the photo?

And they're like, no, no, no, we're good. And Leon gives Javier $1,800, you know, part of the installment. A little while later, Javier is like, hey, now Megan's dead. Leon took the news real well police were like man this was kind of fun but you know what would be even more fun what if we went to Valerie and Leon's condo and gave them a death notice we could record the whole thing on our body cams We could record the whole thing on our body cams. Oh!

That's a great idea. They showed footage of this. It is amazing. So police sent, like, their best actors to the condo. And, you know, like, they knock on the door. And you can tell it's late at night. So Valerie opens up and she's, like, in pajamas in pajamas and she's like oh oh what's going on come in and they told her we're so sorry uh your ex-husband has been found looks like it's a fatality probably a robbery gone wrong and valerie is just like kind of weak what oh oh oh no

oh she's kind of acting like she's like sleepy and stunned and just kind of like, oh, no. Oh, my stars. So what was interesting about this to me was, like, I was watching it. And I thought, she's not doing too bad. But the police brought up a really good point. They were like, here's what happens when you go and notify someone that their loved one is dead. And it's real. They want to know, how do you know it's my loved one? Yeah, exactly. How do you know?

The immediate reaction is, no, it can't be them. Yeah, exactly. She's like taking this, she immediately, oh, yes, yes, and I'm sad. I had a feeling it was going to happen. Oh, gosh. What? I just spoke to him the other day. Yeah.

Did they warn them that they were coming, or did they just show up at the door? No, because it's a death notice. Well, they don't call you and say, hey, we need to stop by and talk to you about something? No, the police just come to your door. So she had no prep time. You need to give her prep time. I've got to get the eye drops ready. So Valerie had no questions.

She just immediately sat in her chair and put her head in her hands and just accepted the whole thing a little bit later leon comes out of the bedroom and police explain what what's going on and he is just oh oh my god i'm sorry is it leon or leon keep going back and forth. You know what? I keep wanting to say Leo because I keep looking away so I lose my emphasis. Leon.

So he's like, oh my, oh. He goes over to Valerie. So Valerie is sitting on like an ottoman and she's got the chair behind her he sits in the chair and he's got his arms around her he's like are you all right baby and she's like oh and he looks up at the cops and this is totally what you would say he goes

oh we've been here all night we were here all day with her daughter. What? And we were watching movies. You immediately come up with an alibi? Oh, Brandy. Alibi. He's just letting them know. That's ridiculous. Just letting them know what he did that day. That's dumb.

That's like my case where she was like, oh, yes, I was at Marshall's at 10, 14. And then I went to the gas station at 11, 12. And here's my receipt. Here's my receipt for everything. That is dumb. Hey, I was just thinking, if you need to fake cry, and if you know the police are coming, you get out the hot wings. Buffalo hot wings.

You don't think it's going to weird when the police come up and they say, we need to talk to you. And you're like, hold on one second. Hold on. You chowed down my buffalo wing. I need to be prepared with hot wings at the ready. And then I rub the hot wing stuff in my eyes. Oh, you're going to dab your eyes with the hot sauce.

I am crying. I'm just thinking how I would be smarter than these people. Man, I would be able to conjure up some tears with that hot wing sauce. I could do it. Okay. Okay. I think this is just a scheme for you to always have hot wings on the ready that is not a bad idea that is not a bad idea so they're all standing around everyone is giving academy award-winning performances and then one of the cops says

all right well i'm gonna need you to come with us and leon is like oh uh well okay i guess i'll stay here and the officer is like no no we we need both of you because you're both under arrest for solicitation of capital murder leon is like what what and they get And they get in handcuffs. What? I thought I told you I was here all day. I was here all day. Then they tell Valerie, you can go get your daughter before we put you in handcuffs and take her to your front door. So she goes, she does it, and her ex-husband is standing right there. The dead ex-husband? He was very much alive oh ghost of christmas past

so he takes the daughter away and she's arrested i know can you imagine i wish they had yeah now she really is crying yeah yeah so leon and valerie are under arrest. They were charged. Four days later, Valerie got out on a $50,000 bond. That's pretty low. That's very low. Because all you have to do is put up 10% and run, 5,000 bucks. That's what she paid for the murder. Yeah.

Well, only $1,800, really. That's right. She's on installments. Installments. Installments are good in case the murder doesn't actually occur. Then you'll earn out $1,800 and you can make bail. How stupid do you have to be to believe the installment? Yeah, no.

Hitman's going to take installments. No, no. I mean, a veterinarian. I don't get it. She wasn't skilled in the murder game. If she had more skill in the murder game, she would have known, hey, this sounds like a setup. Yeah.

Also, well, we'll get more into this later. Okay, so, four days later, Valerie gets out on bond. Her friends tried talking to her, telling her, hey, it'll work out, it's okay. But she knew it wouldn't.

Two days after she got out on bond, Valerie went out on the seventh floor balcony of her condo. And jumped? Yep. Holy shit. But she landed in the pool and everything was fine. What? What?

What? I'm just, Brandy, you seemed upset. It was a bouncy house. You seemed upset, Brandy, so I was making it sound better. So which was it, the bouncy house or the pool? I'm afraid it was just the ground. Oh. She left a note that read,

I am so very sorry for what I have done, but I am just not strong enough to fight all of the battles ahead. Oh, that is rough. You know, that's a gutsy way to die. Could you jump off a roof? That's... I don't... Like, Norman, he's afraid of heights,

so he couldn't even get up there on the balcony. He couldn't even go stand on the balcony. He might pass out and fall over the edge of the roof. Oh! Shit. Would you make these jokes at his funeral? No, you can't. You got to wait till after.

Yeah, five minutes after. After the funeral. Then you call his mom and dad over and say, hey, got a couple of good ones. Oh, God. No. Got a couple of good ones. Got a couple of good ones for you. Don't you think, Brandy?

No. You don't want to say it at the funeral, though. Brandy, are you saying you'd say it at the funeral? No. Oh, okay. In the 2020 episode, the interviewer asked Leon if he felt partially responsible. You don't want to say it at the funeral, though. Brandi, are you saying you'd say it at the funeral? No! Oh, okay. In the 2020 episode, the interviewer asked Leon if he felt partially responsible for Valerie's suicide. Like maybe he helped put her into something she couldn't handle.

Leon said no. Of course he did. Later, Leon asked a judge for permission to get out of prison and attend Valerie's funeral. And the judge was like, no. That'd be a no. That'd be a big no. By the way, they had only dated for like eight weeks. Oh, well, you can get attached in eight weeks.

With Valerie gone, that just left Leon to stand trial. And you might think, gee, they've got so much on him why not try to take a deal but here's the thing leon was innocent shut up he was not that's what he said you're forgetting the heart of gold stuff yeah the heart of gold yeah i remember so the trial starts up and leon's defense attorney just comes out swinging he said it would be a quantum leap to conclude that leon wanted his ex-girlfriend dead or valerie's ex-husband dead he told the jury hey hey leon is not a perfect guy but that doesn't make him guilty of solicitation of murder. Oh my gosh. Hey, look, I'm not perfect.

I've got my problems. In fact, if you're looking for the bad guy here, look no further than Javier, the undercover cop. Oh my gosh, he's claiming that Javier's not really an undercover cop? No, he is claiming that he entrapped Leon in this scene. Oh, come on! And the rest of the police are all in on this, too. That's not a bad idea.

I mean, hey, when you're on video and stuff, you've got to come up with something pretty crazy. Yeah, and this is pretty crazy. Yeah. Here's what he said. They realized this would be the case that makes their career. They were trying to force these people into making decisions that they did not want to make. Bull, sexy time shit. It is.

I am so glad I've got you backing off of the F-bombs. This is great, Brandi. You're doing so well. It's only entrapment if he was like walking down the street one day and Javier was like, Hey man, you got anybody you want killed? Would you have sought out a hitman? And you suggest how it should be done. Yes, that is not entrapment.

And you pay for it to be done. Only part of the money. True. Brandy's having troubles. She's not with it. The prosecution was like, ha ha ha ha ha, nice try. They said this guy has to be in control at all times. He wanted to create this perfect life for himself with Valerie. And he wanted to eliminate Megan and Mac. And with Valerie and he wanted to eliminate Megan

and Mac and we've got the evidence to prove it. They called Mac and Megan to the stand. Megan went first. She talked about how Leon physically abused her when they were together. She talked about him calling, texting, and emailing her after she ended the relationship. She talked about him showing up where she worked. She said, I did everything I could to stay away from him. Then Mac McDaniels took the stand. The prosecution showed the jury the posed pictures of Mac dead and Megan abducted. Then they played audio and video of Leon's conversations with the undercover cop. They had him on tape telling Javier how to kill Megan, saying just get it done and agreeing on a price.

But Leon, the hero of this story, did not take this lying down. He took the stand in his own defense. This is going to work out well. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He said, I never asked to have anyone hurt, killed, harmed, kidnapped. He explained that he had been pressured into saying those things because of this undercover cop. It was all his idea. Leon didn't intend for anything bad to happen.

Bullshit. Leon didn't do great under cross-examination here's a transcript leon i was just having a conversation about possible scenarios i wasn't giving him any directions prosecutor did you not want anyone hurt when you said, inject her with potassium chloride, stop her heart, untraceable? Leon. I said that was something you could do. I didn't say that for him to do that. Hey, in his defense, he's a really bad doctor.

He may not have known that would kill him. Remember? He thought that was like a B-12 shot. Yeah, I'm totally, I'm with him. Okay, good, good answer so far. Next, the prosecutor showed Leon the photos of Megan tied up and looking scared. And Leon confirmed, yes, I saw that image. Yes, I thought that was real.

And the prosecutor said okay but you never said whoop time out stop this has gone too far i don't want any part of this she said you never said that did you and leon goes not those exact words i did not after leon got off the stand and all the arguments were finished up, the judge let the jury go for the night and Leon went back to prison. He started thinking about his situation and realized, I've really gotten myself into kind of a riveting tale here. Sticky spot here. He made a phone call, which of course was

recorded. Of course. And he said, it's a good story. It's something you'd want to read a book about. I want Bradley Cooper to play me in the TV movie. Oh my! Bradley Cooper is not in the TV movies. And also,

shoot, what's this guy's full name? Leon, shit, what was his name? It's not our case, Kristen. Yeah, we can't help you there. Let me ask this while you're looking that up, Kristen. Bradley Cooper, I am not up with the current movie stars. Oh, don't worry. He's probably going to be nominated for an Oscar this year for A Star is Born.

He's asking how hot. Oh, he's very good looking. Okay, so that's why Leon wants him, right? Yeah. Okay, here's what we're going to do. I've got, I'm pulling up a photo of Leon Jacob. You pull up a photo of Bradley Cooper. Got it.

We're going to show my dad what we're dealing with. What about pull up a photo of Jason Alexander? Maybe he is, should he actually play? Oh, hold on, hold on. I want to do this at the same time. I tell you what, the tension in this room right now is almost unbearable. I'm excited. Okay, are you ready?

One, two, three. No, I'm going to be honest with you. Obviously, Bradley Cooper's a better looking guy. Yeah. But you got a bad shot here. You got a mug shot. The guy's hair's a mess. You give him a good haircut, clean him up a little bit.

I think he... You can see why Valerie fell for him so hard. You know, this Bradley Cooper, he looks a lot like me. Oh, God. And I could see... Actually, if I ever got into this, I think Bradley Cooper would play me. Oh, is this him again? Yes.

Oh, my. He looks terrible. Well, that's what I'm trying to tell you. Okay. That mug shot was unbelievably good. Actually, I think the mugshot was a good picture. Yeah, that was a hot mugshot. That guy is looking sweet.

Hot mugshot. So he's in this jailhouse phone call wanting Bradley Cooper to play him in a TV movie. I think it's a pretty sweet idea myself. The next day, the jury deliberated for less than an hour. Ooh. What do you think they found? I think they found him guilty. You're so right.

Next came sentencing. The jury had to weigh in on whether he should get jail time, and if so, for how long. For that part... Whether he should get jail time? Yeah, whether? That's what 2020 said. And who am I to question 2020? Journalism integrity there.

For that part, the prosecution called a very important witness. Leon's ex-wife and the mother of his two children, Annie Morrison. She told the jury that Leon had been violent with her. One time he pulled a knife on her. He pushed her, grabbed her, kicked her, and told her if she ever left him, he'd kill her. And that because he was a doctor, he'd make sure that no one would ever find her body. Because he would dissolve it. The prosecutor told the jury,

this guy cannot be trusted to live among us. Send him away for life. And the jury was like, sure thing. And they did just that. They sentenced him to life in prison. Right before Leon was taken away. Well, thank goodness. Man, it's not like he was going to get off

with like a slap on the wrist and probation. They said, get out of here. Talk to Bradley Cooper. See if you can make this work. We'd all love to tune in to the Lifetime movie. I got really nervous there. Why is he shooting for a TV movie? Shouldn't he shoot for the big screen on this?

I think so. His expectations are too low. Megan was given the opportunity to speak before Leon was taken away. She said, while you sit in jail, I hope you think of me. Because it's because of me that you will be in prison for life. Enjoy life in prison. Boom. Boom.

Leon will be eligible for parole in 30 years and he is currently appealing his case of course he is and that is the story of toxic love it's a good one that's good it's really good this was all good cheaters is that's a good subject matter cheaters good episode i gotta say i really struggled with this because there are a lot of cheaters cases out there that are really good that you don't want to talk about in front of your dad. Oh, well, why not? You holding back? Gee, I don't know. Okay.

Well, then Brandy does one that brings up an old wound for me. Oh, yeah. Oh, man. She really scraped that scab right off. I didn't even think about it. I didn't know. Yeah, I know you didn't. And I didn't know either. And like I said, I heard that episode. I didn't know. Yeah, I know you didn't. And I didn't know either. And like I said, I heard that episode and I didn't know.

So did you know he was engaged? No, I never. I didn't know you were engaged before, Sherry. Yeah. Yeah. Brandy was also engaged before Zach. It happened when she was 13. I was going to say, how could I possibly have been engaged before Zach?

Seriously, Brandi? No! Were you one of those child brides? Yeah, I lived on a compound. It seems like you lived in Lenexa, Kansas. I like to tease Brandi because she married so young. So how old were you when you married? 21.

That's how old you were when you got married, right? I was 23. Sherry was 20. Sherry was 20 years old, so she was pretty young. It was a different time. It was the 1800s back then. I don't know what your excuse was. 1981, Kristen? Uh-huh.

81. Mm-hmm. Well, this was lovely. It was lovely. Thank you for having me. Yeah, thanks for coming on our show. It was awesome. I'm guessing that just like one comment got me on this show,

I assume if one negative comment comes, I'm off forever. Oh, 100%. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. If we get one person who isn't into DPs, then you're done. I'm going to set up some fake Russian profiles and do some positive comments on how funny and great this episode was. And it was all because...

You think this will be our best rated episode ever? There's no doubt. Can you imagine? It sounds like all I have to do is about four or five accounts and I've got it made. How dare you, Sarah? Sorry. I never. A lot of fun. More work than I thought

because I'm not a journalist, so I had to do some stuff I'm not used to doing, but it was fun. Yeah. You appreciate the research we put into these things now, huh? I do. I do. Yeah. And the research and the prep work and everything else. Well, we're impressed that you came prepped. We legit had a conversation about how we thought you were just going to show up and try and remember it off the top of your head. You know, Kristen's heard me do that before, and she's always making fun of what I leave out and what I forget. And, oh, yeah, I forgot to tell you, you know, and so.

And you can never remember names, so you call all women Petunia. Yeah, that's funny, though. Yeah, but that's hilarious, Kristen. Candy's only a half a step ahead of Petunia. Yeah, that's hilarious. Candy's only a half a step ahead of the two of you. Yeah, that's true. No, the thing I was really envisioning is like when I come over to your mom's house and you guys watched a really good Dateline the night before and you try to retell it. And so you say something and then mom shouts from the kitchen,

No, no, that's wrong. That's wrong. That's what I thought was going to happen. And who do you believe is right when that happens? I mostly just wait for it to end. Is it true that you have the best parents ever? It's true. Okay.

It's true. Just as long as you can admit that. You had some good parents. Yeah. I had the privilege of spending a lot of time around your parents growing up. So much time. Yeah. Yeah.

So were you guys in the same class in fourth grade? Not until fifth grade. That's when we became really good friends is fifth grade. Yeah. Yeah. So I remember, I remember Randy coming over. I remember taking you guys out trick or treating probably fifth grade. Yep.

And you guys running all over the neighborhood. What's your favorite Brandy story from growing up? Because, I mean, we went camping together. You were at our house all the time. Do you have a favorite Brandy story? I don't remember anything really. I wanted to think of something really negative and funny. Constant delight, right?

You were a constant delight. That is true. You were fun to have around, Brandy. That's for sure. Thank you. I appreciate it. As were all of Kristen's friends. You were fun. You were fun to have around, Brandy. That's for sure. Thank you. I appreciate it. As were all of Kristen's friends. Yeah.

Yeah. You didn't like all my friends. Oh, let's not go down. Let's not tick down a list here. Oh, okay. If you had to put like an order, like where I would fall on the list. Oh, Brandy, you're number one. Thank you.

I appreciate it. And it's really not even close. I mean, you had some good friends, but, you know, Brand. Thank you. I appreciate it. And it's really not even close. I mean, you had some good friends, but, you know, Brandy, obviously.

I mean, to be fair to everyone else, I probably spent the most time there out of any of the, any of the friends. And if any other friend was right here right now, he'd be saying that she was

the number one friend. probably. No, no, no, no, I don't have a problem. No,

that's the scariest thing about my dad is that he's honest. And so that can, you remember one time Norman cooked something for honest. I don't have a problem. No, that's the scariest thing about my dad is that he's honest. And so that can... You remember one time Norman cooked something for us and I gave him a C plus? I wanted to smack you in the face. I had to be honest. You gave him a C plus?

It was pretty good. It was above average, but, you know. Barely. I... It was in the meaty part of the curve, as they say. I'm getting mad just thinking about that. Norman and I were dating at the time.

Norman made dinner for everyone and we're all thanking Norman and my dad I get a C, Norman. I get a C plus on this chicken.

Does that sound like me? What she just did. Does that sound at all like me? Yeah. Let me tell our listeners a story about what happened the last time that I had dinner with you. Oh, good. me. Yeah. Let me tell our listeners a story about what happened the last time that I had dinner with you.

Oh, good. Okay. Yeah. We came out to your house, Zach and I and Kristen and Norm and you and Sherry and Sherry made us

this delicious dinner. It was great. I think she made us chili. It was wonderful. We're sitting there. Dinner's over. We're all having some dessert. It was like a berry cobbler.

It was so good. And we all had some berry cobbler, vanilla ice cream. You did not partake in the berry cobbler. Hmm. Okay. You instead had some kind of chocolate ice cream. Very possible. So you get out your carton of chocolate ice cream.

You put some in your bowl. You put it away. You ate that chocolate ice cream. You put some in your bowl. You put it away. You ate that chocolate ice cream. Yeah. And then you decided you were going to get some more. Yeah. So you went and got your chocolate ice cream out again. And you used the spoon that you'd been eating with to dip it out of the carton.

Sherry about leapt across the table at you. Now, in my defense, Brandon, in my defense, I am the only one. So we're empty nesters, I am the only one. So we're empty nesters, if you didn't know. And so I'm the only one in the house that eats chocolate ice cream. Okay, but hold on. When other people are there, first of all, you offer people some of what you're eating. No, nobody's getting my chocolate ice cream.

And Sherry said, gosh, I hope no one else wanted any chocolate ice cream. And then your excuse was, we only have one ice cream scoop and it's got vanilla ice cream on it. That's a good excuse. I hadn't thought of that. However, I like the, I'm the only one who eats the chocolate ice cream. Because who puts chocolate ice cream on Barry Cobbler? Who are you to judge if somebody wanted to come over and have some of that chocolate ice cream? Not your call. You know, instead of me worrying about being bragged on a lot, I should have worried more about stories being told that were attempting to portray me in a negative light.

You know, you're like Leon. You're just dodging these bullets. You got an excuse for everything. And I'm going to be on the phone with Bradley Cooper after this episode. Daryl, seriously, thank you so much for coming on the show. Yeah. It was really, really a fun episode. Glad to do it.

Glad to do it. Can't wait for all the positive feedback from the podcast listeners. Thank you so much for inviting me. I appreciate it. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, if you haven't already, join us on Facebook. We're on Instagram. We're on Twitter.

Find us there. Head on over to iTunes. Leave us a rating. Leave us a review. And then join us next week. When we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned! And now for a note about our process.

I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web, and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from the toxic love episode of 2020. And I got my info from the Toxic Love episode of 2020. And I got my info from the 48 Hours episode, A Knock at the Door, The New York Times, The Kansas City Star, People Magazine, and Oxygen.com. And I got my information from an episode of Dateline, an episode of Dr. Phil, which I highly recommend, USA Today article by Maggie O'Meara. True Crime Daily online article

by Jason Matero. IdahoNews.com and the Idaho Statesman, an article by Cynthia Sewell. For a full list of our sources, visit LGTCpodcast.com. Any errors are of course ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff. Thank you. Kjell Kronström Thank you.