Let's Go To Court! - 7: The Toxic Tush Doctor & the Torn Love Letters

Episode Date: March 23, 2018

WARNING: The audio in this episode is rough. What can we say? We were young(ish), dumb, and thought we’d save a little money by sharing one microphone. Yeah. The audio quality improves drastically after episode 9.  Brandi starts us off with the tale of the toxic tush doctor. These ladies just wanted a more shapely behind. Instead, they got injected with fix-a-flat and construction-grade silicone. This story will make you grateful for your sad, flat little ass. The murders of secret lovers Edward Hall and Eleanor Mills captivated the nation in 1922, but they still have us on the edge of our seats today. This trial has everything — religion; a double murder; a forbidden love affair; a media circus; and a female pig farmer. Let’s just say that it starts with two dead bodies covered in torn love letters and gets even more intriguing from there. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: The book “Cold Cases: Famous Unsolved Mysteries, Crimes and Disappearances in America” by: Helena Katz “The Press: Under the Crabapple Tree,” Time Magazine “Frances Hall, Henry Stevens, and William Stevens Trial: 1926,” encyclopedia.com In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Fake Doc Charged With Bizarre Butt Rebuilding” by Carey Codd, CBS Miami “$15K Bond For Accused Fake Doc In Toxic Tush Case” by Gary Nelson, CBS Miami “Emotional Day In Court After ‘Toxic Tush Doc’ Sentenced To 10 Years Prison” by Joan Murray, CBS Miami “Fake Florida doctor who ‘enhanced’ buttocks with cement, caulking gets 10 years for manslaughter” by Katie Mettler, Washington Post

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Pitts. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about a trial that has everything. Religion.

A media circus. A double murder. A forbidden love affair. And a female pig farmer. And I'll be talking about the toxic tush doctor. The woman accused of injecting fix-a-flat and construction-grade silicone into women's asses. This podcast is sponsored by Cheddars.

Ooh, you know what they have there? What do they have? Honey butter croissants. Oh my God. If you have not had one, it is a flaky bite of heaven yes i do say so myself what did you make them i did not but cheddars did they are handmade daily you know i'm it's occurring to me now that lying about being sponsored by cheddars might be a problem um you know who this this podcast is not sponsored by who fucking noodles and company

when are you gonna get over your anger never noodles and company you are dead to me until you bring back that spicy caesar wrap you have one day. Are you ready? Yes. Okay, so I told you that I was going to do this case, and I was really excited about it. And I really wanted to do this case. It was on my original list, like when I was coming up with, you know, ideas for episodes. Turns out, there's not that much information available about the actual trial, but I said fuck it and I'm doing it anyway because I really wanted to. Yes, yes.

And this is our damn podcast. That's right. And it kind of makes me think of like the Robert Courtney stuff. Yeah, technically there wasn't a criminal trial, but the story is crazy. Yes, exactly. So let's just go for it. Okay. The story is crazy.

Yes. Exactly. So let's just go for it. Okay. I got a lot of my information from CBS Miami articles by Carrie Codd and Joan Murray. CBS Miami actually had this awesome thing where I went to their website and I could search this person's name. And every article that was written about this case came up for CBS Miami. So I was able to follow a timeline through them so that was amazing okay now to people who don't do research that doesn't sound like anything at

all but that is actually amazing so convenient yes and then I also had a really great um I found a really great Washington Post article by um Katie Mettler that I used. Okay, so the toxic tish doctor. Yay. In 2011, a woman sought medical care at multiple Miami area hospitals. Over several months during 2011, she went to different hospitals. She had a massive infection, which turned out to be MRSA. And she also was suffering from pneumonia. which turned out to be MRSA. And she also was suffering from pneumonia.

So the hospital, the various hospitals are like trying to figure out where she got this infection and how it got so bad. And in case you don't know, MRSA is like a staph infection on steroids. It's resistant to antibiotics. It's super hard to fight. And so it was in the really advanced stages. I'm sorry, I have to clear my throat. in the really advanced stages. I'm sorry, I have to clear my throat.

I do not clear my throat in a week as many times as I do it while we are here recording this podcast. It's the pressure. Okay, so she has this massive MRSA infection, and the hospital's like, you know, we've got to get to the bottom of this. Have you done anything weird um you know think about your behaviors or whatever and so finally yeah i don't know okay finally she admits that she received cosmetic injections in a hotel room. Oh, no. And that the sites where the injections were, like, put in her body, the injection sites,

were sealed with cotton balls and super glue. What? Yeah, so this is how I picture it. So she's in a hotel. She goes to this, like, dark hotel room, lays on a massage table, this like dark hotel lays on a massage table uh-huh and gets what she believes are cosmetic grade silicone injections to make her have like a more shapely behind was this like you know in some high-end hotels they have like the spas no no this was like in a hotel room oh oh and some sketchy person showed up with yes syringe yes gotcha but it was like really a discounted rate like you know super cheap

silicone injections my ass is gonna look great and i'm gonna pay next to nothing so the woman gives her the injections in her ass and then dabs cotton balls in super glue and like sticks them on the parts where she did the injections. Like a craft project? Yes. As if she's creating Santa's beard out of cotton balls. Oh my God. Yes. So the hospital's like, what the fuck? we have to figure out what's in your ass

and so how many times have i heard that so again this is in my mind they need to get a sample of what was injected in her ass. So in my mind, they take like a comically large syringe and stick it in her ass and pull out whatever was in there, a sample of it. And they send that off to the lab. Lab results come back and it shows that the injections consisted of cement, fix-a-flat oh my god mineral oil and construction grade silicone like that you buy at home depot oh no yes oh no yes okay question yes do you know how much she paid for this um i don't in this for this specific victim i don't know um there's a couple of other victims that will come along and i have some numbers for them but it looks like everybody was paying a little bit different maybe somewhere around like a 200 range oh yeah you gotta pay more than that absolutely

so the hospital alerts um the florida department of health and they notify the miami gardens police department and an investigation begins the investigation leads to the arrest of o'neill ron morris who is a transgender woman who sometimes went by the name duchess so um for our purposes in this all of the news articles refer to her as O'Neill Ron Morris. So that's what I'm going to call her, but I will use the she, her. Yeah. If that's what she wants. That's what she wants. Exactly. But only a couple people refer to her as Duchess. So I'm going to refer to her by her legal name and then. Yeah. Call it good. Yeah. Okay. So o'neill ron morris is arrested um in the meantime victim number one as we'll call her this person that sought all this medical treatment she suffers from life

threatening injuries resulting in multiple surgeries and she required extensive home care over like a series of, like, four months. Well, because I'm sure she couldn't move, right? Yes, absolutely. So the infection has gotten so bad, and this stuff that is in her ass is, like, causing these, like, nodules and stuff. Oh, God. Just horrible. In November of 2011,

Morris is charged with unlicensed practice of health care with serious injury. Her lawyer, Michael... Mirror? Myrer? Myrer? It's M-I-R-E-R. Sure, mirror. Mirror, that's how I'm going to pronounce it.

Okay. Okay. Anyway, her lawyer michael my i say mirror michael mirror michael myers the guy from halloween wow that is crazy who knew he went back to school and turned his life around good for him absolutely so michael mirror said um the claims against his client were false and he questioned the ability of tampa general hospital to make a diagnosis after rider trauma center treated the victim this is what he said he said i find it interesting that the alleged victim goes to one of the best hospitals in the world, Jackson Memorial, then goes to Rider Trauma Center, one of the best hospitals in the world,

and not until months later does she go to another hospital, Tampa General, and it's at that hospital where the doctor determines the substance she was injected with. So I'm interested what the state is going to have as far as evidence to be able to show that my client had anything to do with injecting this woman, this alleged victim, with these substances. Okay, so I have several problems with this statement. Yes. Okay, so he's basically saying that Tampa General is like a shit hospital. Yes, he's absolutely saying that there's no basically and um that how are they gonna prove that his his client was um involved at all right

so this he finishes by saying this is like one of my favorite quotes of his he says saying this is like one of my favorite quotes of his he says there's going to be no proof or any documentation that my client accepted any money well no fucking shit sherlock she wasn't running credit cards she was taking cash in a dimly lit hotel room i i tell you what that would be a great defense for like defending any kind of illegal activity. Well, they don't have this on the books. No kidding. You know, okay. And my other issue with this is, okay, those first two hospitals, she was embarrassed, right?

Yeah. So she didn't tell them. Okay. I'm certainly not one to say, oh, doctors are perfect. Doctors should catch everything. But doctors are not psychic. No, she didn't tell them. From my understanding, she did not tell them that she had gotten these injections. As the patient, I feel like you go in and you need to tell them whatever you think will help them figure out what's wrong with you. Yes. Even if it's

embarrassing. Absolutely. Oh my God. Yes. Okay. Continue. Okay. So at that time, the Department of Health says that more potential victims have come forward, and they urge anyone who's impacted to come forward. A few days later, a second person is arrested in the case. Corey Alexander Eubanks is arrested in late November 2011 after victim number two comes forward saying she was treated by both Eubanks and Morris and that the two worked together and split the money. Victim number two says Eubanks' job was basically to get the patient set up and then to escort any witnesses out of the room before the procedure began. And so another victim later says something about, like, the injections came out of, like, a Pedialyte bottle. Like, while this stuff that they were mixing together,

they were, like, swishing around in a Pedialyte bottle. And then so it was basically his job to make sure nobody saw that this was coming out of a Pedialyte bottle. Because so it was basically his job to make sure nobody saw that this was coming out because people might be like um yes doesn't look legit yeah exactly eubanks is arrested and then morris is actually rearrested because she has actually bonded out of jail at this time after her first arrest okay so based on what the second victim says, she is rearrested and charged with an additional count of the same thing. And then Eubanks is also charged with two counts of practicing health care without a license. Okay.

Victim two says that she knew Morris as Duchess and paid her $900 for what she was told were silicone injections. And Morris told her, this is my profession. Don't worry. Was that in a hotel room too? I'm not sure. That one's unclear because she also went to people's houses and like did it for them at their own houses so it's unclear where victim two received her treatment see this is when i start to get kind of worried because nine hundred dollars i feel like now we're getting in that range where i'd be like well yeah that's probably legit and i mean that's so stupid like what you know the higher the amount they want to charge me, the more I'd be like, this is a real butt implant. Yeah.

Coming from that Pedialyte bottle. That's right. And she makes house calls. How great. Yeah. Victim number two also says that after the procedure, Morris covered the injection sites with cotton balls dipped in super glue and suggested that she soak them off with Epsom salts afterwards. So, you know, I'm going to stick this super glued cotton ball on your ass. You just go home, soak that in some Epsom salts.

They'll come right off and that injection site will be just fine. When victim two called Morris twice afterwards with health concerns, Morris first recommended more Epsom salt soaks. And then later suggested she tell the hospital she had MRSA and that the MRSA treatment would resolve her symptoms. Oh, man. Yeah. So she knew exactly. Had to have known, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Oh. Had to have known, right? Yeah. Yeah. Oh. At this time, Morris makes Bond, leaves jail. So what does she do?

She goes on Entertainment Tonight to do an interview. What? Yes! She tells E.T., this is my first and last interview. They didn't catch me doing anything, so they are just allegations. So I'm innocent. I really am innocent, or whatever. That's a direct quote.

Or whatever. Oh. Yeah. And I love the, so, or whatever is is first of all solid gold yes but the thing they didn't catch me yes yeah yes okay yeah she goes on to say it sounds bizarre but how could america feel like a person would even put cement in somebody's bottom. You know, it's just these allegations. I didn't do these things to these people. Just know these people are lying and ruining my life. That's all I have to say. They keep on lying, but you know, the truth will prevail. And you know, that's why we have to have courts and stuff like that. I want that on a t-shirt could you read that back again with the truth will prevail yes the truth

but you know the truth will prevail and you know that's why we have to have courts and stuff like that a banner i want it in sky writing amazing she finished the interview by saying get ready i'm so excited if anybody's the victim it's definitely me oh oh yes yeah yes i was just a gal with, you know, a long receipt from Hobby Lobby and dreamed to fill people's asses to the brim. So she goes on this interview at Entertainment Tonight and she says, you know, says all this stuff. You know, I'm these are all lies. I didn't do this to anybody. This is all going to come out in court that they're lying and I'm innocent. She would have to eat those words later in 2013.

Because she pled guilty to one count of practicing health care without a license and was sentenced to one year in prison. Only one year? Yes. Oh. Her accomplice Eubanks pled guilty to two misdemeanor counts of culpable negligence in exchange for one year of probation. So that happened in late 2013.

So you may be wondering, like, why did that take so long? What happened in the meantime there? These charges that we just talked about were in Miami-Dade County, Florida. Next door in Broward County, there had also been an investigation going on for some more serious charges. Okay. Shatarka Newby was a Florida inmate who was serving time for fraud stemming from using a stolen credit card to pay for breast augmentation surgery. Now, I am not one to condone any crimes,

but that seems a little bit genius to me because what are they going to do? Take the implants out? You don't have to return the merchandise. They can't repo those. They can't show up with a tow truck and just take them off of you. That's right. Are you going to call this the perfect crime? The perfect crime.

So she's in prison for getting these, basically identity theft, for getting these breast augmentations on somebody else's card. And while she's in prison, she gets very sick. I'm sorry, I've completely lost my spot. In case you're wondering why I'm stalling so much. I just thought that like it was a very dramatic illness. So, okay, here. So while she's serving her sentence in a Florida prison, she becomes very sick. Her butt becomes hard and black. And the discoloration extends all the way down past her knees. And she begins to have extreme respiratory issues.

In the spring of 2012, she actually passes away while in custody before her death though she wrote a letter to the florida department of health stating that between 2007 and 2010 she paid o'neill ron morris over two thousand000 for 10 silicone butt injections. Oh, God. So the Department of Health is like, oh, we know that name. We've had that thing going on with him over in Miami-Dade County. So they start an investigation. They are actually able to interview Shatarka before she passes away.

So she's able to tell them you know kind of what happened and all of this stuff after she passes away a medical examiner the assistant medical examiner determines that shatarka died from a massive systemic silicone migration as a result of silicone injections and in july of 2012 o'ne'Neal Ron Morris was arrested and charged with manslaughter. Yeah. Newby's family said that they had been waiting for the day Duchess, as they knew her, would be arrested. They said she was like a family friend. She was at the house all the time.

They said she believed she was a trained medical professional because she often wore scrubs and a stethoscope oh um so they were just like we trusted you and we considered you a friend and this is what you did to our loved one at morris's bond hearing in july it was revealed that another victim had come forward resulting in an added charge of practicing medicine without a license resulting in great bodily harm this victim i think we're up to victim number four now so we'll call this one victim number four um had butt injections that resulted in knots and required seven surgeries to fix at At the time of this bond hearing, she was actually in the hospital on bed rest in recovery from one of the surgeries.

Morris' bond was originally set at $150,000, but in August of 2012, she agreed to several special conditions to get it reduced to $25,000. So those conditions. She waived her right to a speedy trial. She agreed to wear an ankle monitoring bracelet. She surrendered her passport and she agreed to be present at all future court proceedings. So she agreed to those special conditions and she bonded out of Broward County Jail on August 31st, 2012. Okay, so at this point, it's a little bit unclear to me what went on in either case between the

time that she bonded out in August of 2012 and back to October of 2013 when she pled guilty on the other charges. There's just not a lot of information available so i'm guessing you know there were some you know um continuation hearings that probably took place and stuff like that but that information is not available to me um did you lose your place yes here we are with our new fancy microphones okay so miss there's a mystery year in there that we don't really know what happens but finally in january of 2014 she began serving the one-year sentence that she received for the charges in miami-dade county um her lawyer said with credit for time served and good behavior she would serve about nine months in state prison. Okay, so fast forward to March of 2017. This mystery, like, year has gone by. In the first case, she served her time, and then now she's waived her right to a speedy trial, and this

case is just kind of slugging along in court. It's now March of 2017, and she finally reaches a plea agreement in the charge of manslaughter in Broward County. Under the plea deal, Morris entered a guilty plea to one count of manslaughter and faced up to 15 years in prison. On March 27th, 2017, it was an emotional day in court. Oh my God, I'm sorry.

I just burped. I'm so sorry. I felt it rumbling. I was like, no, no, no. But it happened. On March 27th, 2017. Fuck. On March 27th, 2017, it was an emotional day in court as several victims made statements to the judge about the impact Morris had had on their lives.

Juanita Newby, Shatarka's aunt, said their family was shattered. There's no closure, she continued. Putting you in jail won't bring her back she said directly to morris um things became heated in the courtroom at that time because she spoke directly to morris and morris was like listen i didn't do this on purpose i didn't i didn't hurt my friend intentionally and the aunt was like you know i actually believe that i do actually believe that you didn't do something intentionally but you also didn't come forward and admit what you'd done. Yeah. Yeah. And you're playing a victim in all of this. And you showed up in scrubs.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. You totally misrepresented yourself. Another victim said, you gave us your word that the products you were using was A1 products. I'm guessing she means like cosmetic grade. Not the steak sauce. Yes.

And come to find out they were not. Maybe in the beginning, but greed really took over because you were pocketing the money from every victim. And then Shatarka's mother, Sherry Pitts. No. Yes. What? Yes. Okay, so that's my mom's name.

Yes. What? Yes. Okay, so that's my mom's name. So Sherry Pitts finished by saying, My daughter died the most inhumane death. Eighteen months she suffered without knowing the full extent of what she put in her body. The doctors couldn't do anything until they knew what was in her body.

Which that would be just terrible. That would be. Yeah. I mean, it's a, it's horrible on so many levels, you know, first that it's happening, but second that like someone is out there who you considered a friend who could just come forward and say, this is what I did. This is what's going on. Yeah. This is why she's so sick. And then let the actual medical professionals take over. Yeah. Okay. So here's my on. Yeah. This is why she's so sick. And then let the actual medical professionals take over. Yeah. Okay. So here's my question for you. Okay. Do you think it's possible that she really didn't know the danger of what she was doing? She didn't know there was such a difference between cosmetic grade silicone and silicone that she bought at Home Depot. I think it's totally possible that she had no idea she was going to kill somebody.

Yeah. I think it's totally possible she had no idea that it was going to cause serious bodily harm. Yeah. But at the same time, after that first victim comes forward, I mean, then you've got to go to everyone else. And be like, this is what happened. Yeah, you've got to come clean. Yeah, absolutely.

I think you're right. Do you? Yeah, I think that there's a small part of me that thinks that she probably did have no idea how dangerous what she was doing was. Because she did it to herself, too. Oh, well. She gave herself injections. Yeah. But did she give herself higher quality Oh, well, see, yeah. She gave herself injections. Yeah.

But did she give herself higher quality stuff? That I don't know. Okay, because I was going to say, wouldn't she be sick too? Although maybe people react differently. Maybe not. I think, yeah, I think it just depends on how everybody's body handled it, I guess. Ultimately, a judge sentenced Morris to 10 years in prison and five years of probation. Morris's defense attorney, at this time it's a different guy, William Lanphier, said he disagreed with the prison sentence because his client's patients knew they weren't dealing with a licensed physician.

All parties share the responsibility and the blame for their own actions and the role they played. There was an assumption of risk obligation from the victims, which I just don't agree with because she's not telling them, hey, I'm going to put cement and fix a flat in your ass. They think they're getting silicone injections. Well, and if you think I'm just thinking about cosmetic procedures. You don't always necessarily need an MD to do those things. No, absolutely. I don't know. I hate to be victim blaming, but at this, I, oh, God. I mean, I do see some logic in thinking, okay, there were red flags here.

Right. Like someone coming to your hotel with super glue and cotton. Right. But still, yeah, that doesn't absolve her of anything. But if you didn't know that it wasn't cosmetic grade super glue, because that is something that plastic surgeons do. They glue incisions closed so it doesn't leave a scar. So if you didn't know the grade of some of these things.

Yeah, and you were just told this is top quality. I've done this a million times. Don't worry. This is my profession. Yeah. Okay, okay. I take all that shit I just said back. Edit that out.

Make me look like a better person. Okay. So this is the part that I haven't mentioned until now, and I think it's the worst part of this whole thing. O'Neal was a transgender woman. Oh, no. Oh, no. And most of herill was a transgender woman. Oh no. Oh no. And most of her victims were also transgender women.

They were men transitioning to women who require lots of surgeries to do that transition. And they heard about her discounted procedures through word of mouth in the transgender community. procedures through word of mouth in the transgender community. And so she really preyed on those women who were just wanting to make their outsides match their insides and didn't have the means to do it. And I think that's pretty fucking terrible. Okay. First of all, I have to clarify the reason I was saying oh no, no earlier was because I thought you were about to say they sent her to a men's prison.

Oh, they actually did. yes yeah yeah she's serving her sentence in a men's prison which i whoa yeah uh is a whole different topic. To me, that's like a torture sentence because you know what's happening. Absolutely. Holy shit. Okay, what was my other point? I can't. Oh, okay, okay. Now that I know that, I'm taking back my other thing I said. This is the Kristen Pitts apology tour about when I was like,

you've got to come to your doctor and give them the whole story and you know, blah, blah, blah. Right. Okay. Now that I know that most of these victims were trans women, I can completely understand why you would be leery of being judged.

Yes. You would be fearful of, you know, who you could talk to openly in the medical community. Yeah. So one of her most high profile victims was this woman named, I'm going to just butcher this name. Her name's Raji Narina Singh. Wow. You did a terrible job.

She got facial injections. And she is one of the only women that I saw, that I came across in my research, that got facial injections. And she was injected with the same things everybody else was. And it just knotted up in her face. And she got all these horrible lumps and stuff. Her case is, I would say, the most high profile because she was featured on the show Botched. Oh, yeah. Okay.

So she went on the show Botched, which is an e-network, like, reality show with two plastic surgeons who help people by fixing kind of bad plastic surgery gone wrong. Yeah. So she went to them for a consultation and told them, you know, I got these injections. They weren't what I thought they were. And this is what's happened to me. And they look at her and they basically said, we don't think we can do anything for you.

It's too high risk. We could make it worse. And that's where the show left it she left without getting anything but in my research today i actually found out that they actually did formulate a plan for her and they called her back and asked her to come in and they were actually able to um do some fixes on her and they fixed a lot of her facial issues if you go on and look at her before and after pictures it's amazing but this is what she had to say um about her interaction with morris she says and this is kind of you know in in relation to her trans transitioning from

male to female she says it becomes so dire that you want to match your outside with your inside that you're willing to roll the dice and take your chances. As a transgender person, you're thinking, oh, my God, I can start to look like I want to look and I don't have to spend a lot of money. Yeah. yeah so i think there's a lot of um uh that's the hardest part for me is that i feel like she preyed a little bit on people who were just like her yeah yeah and he trusted her yes he trusted her because she was just like them yeah that's awful yeah that's awful and especially i take back my other thing i said about the money because transitioning that's crazy expensive so expensive yeah i mean you would be looking to cut corners in any way you can and maybe if you feel like oh this person's giving me a deal because she's gone through what i'm going through yeah i take back everything i've ever said on any topic.

And that's the tale of the toxic tish doctor. Wow. Okay, I thought I knew that story. I had no idea. All I knew was, like, I feel like I saw a viral picture. Uh-huh and it was this woman's ass and it looked like a balloon that had been deflated but was full of pebbles yeah yeah that's basically what it looks like it's like all of it has like collapsed and then deposited like in these chunks yeah which would make you miss your old ass right your old flat ass yeah you never looked better

uh side note on that show um botched i saw this lady once who got butt implants okay and then her implants flipped around whoa so like they're they're like you know um oh yeah they'd be flat on one they're flat on one side and then rounded on the other. So they flipped around. So the flat side was out. No. Yes. Oh no.

Yes. How does that happen? Like sitting on it for me? I don't know. I have no idea how it happens. I'm just picturing two capital D's just swimming. Oh, that's awful. Yeah. But they fixed it for her. So flats just swimming. Oh, that's awful. Yeah.

But they fixed it for her, so. Well, good. Flat ass no more. Oh, thank God. Yes. I can tell you from a place of great authority, there's nothing worse. Than a flat ass. It's all upper thigh back there.

Just a straight line. Try not to be jealous, ladies. Okay, you ready? I am. This is like a big ol' whodunit. A big ol' whodunit. A game of Clue come to life. Oh my gosh.

Okay, picture it. September 16th, 1922. In a field near a New Jersey farm. A couple is strolling down Lover's Lane. Hold on. A couple is strolling down Lover's Lane when they come across two dead bodies. One belongs to a priest named Edward Hall. The other belongs to Eleanor Mills, who sang in the church choir. They're laying on their backs next to each other. Eleanor's left hand is positioned on Edward's right thigh, and her head is resting on his arm. Edward has been shot in the head, but there's a hat covering his face and his glasses are on. Oh my god. It gets weirder. Oh god. His calling card. Is it bad to say I'm so excited?

You don't have to say it because I can see it on your face. It's like there is a switch on. Yes. His calling card is at his feet. Eleanor has been shot three times in the head. Her throat is slit from ear to ear. But there's a scarf covering it. Oh, my God. Her tongue has been removed. Yeah, so she can't talk. She can't tell anybody.

Damn right. Both of their bodies have other minor injuries that I'm not even going to get into because it's, like, so beside the point. Edward isn't wearing his watch, but there's money in his pocket and his wallet is nearby. Torn up love letters are scattered over their dead bodies. Oh my God. Mm-hmm. Here's the thing. They are both married.

Not to each other. Not to each other. So they're having an affair. Oh my gosh. So they're having an affair, obviously. Oh, my gosh. Police are called to the scene where it's clear that the bodies have been dead for about a day, just because there's maggots in Eleanor at the whole deal. So obviously they want to get started with this investigation right away.

But there's a problem. This is, like, the most exciting thing that has happened ever anywhere. So, you know, the police want to cover it. But the thing is, this crime scene is right on the border between these two counties. So you've got these two competing police departments who are like, it's my jurisdiction. No, it's mine. Oh, my gosh. So there's this huge argument over who

is going to investigate this in the meantime word gets out that there is this crazy crime scene and the whole fucking town comes to see it oh yeah and not just the whole town the media swoops in so this was one of the first cases where um could use, oh shit, what's the word, telegraphs to telegraph their news. So for the first time ever, you could send out reporters from all these faraway places and they could get the news back fairly quickly to their communities. So while the police are fighting over who has jurisdiction over this crime scene, the just regular people, reporters, show up. And what do you think they did?

I don't know, Tanya. Oh, they stood back at a far distance. Set up a perimeter. Yes. They came with their own caution tape. No. No. First of all, they walked everywhere.

They trampled all over everything. So there goes any footprint evidence you might have hoped for. Then they saw the calling card at Edward's feet, and they were like, oh, my God, this is crazy. Someone picks it up. They pass it around the crowd. Everyone wants to take a look. So there goes any fingerprints you might have tried to get. Then, so the bodies were placed right underneath this big crab apple tree.

Get this. People dug up the crab apple tree, cut it into parts to keep as souvenirs. Holy shit! Yes. What? Yes. Let me get a slab of that crab apple tree to remember the moment, Mike. Yeah, to remember the time I went to a double murder. Mm-hmm. I was born in the wrong time period. Yeah, here you are now where people would, like the police would just smack you down if you even got near it. So eventually the police figured out the jurisdiction issue and they started searching for a murder weapon. But of course, all these reporters and people weren't just going to stand

by and not help. So like reporters and just random people, they got rakes and shovels and they just started digging. They just started doing whatever. There were two wells on the property, so they just went and did their own investigation, tried to find some stuff. And then people got kind of bored because they couldn't find the weapon. So there was this old abandoned property on, or house on this property. So they just started taking shit from that property. Again, souvenirs.

There was no gift shop. They had to do their own thing. This is going to surprise you. But that destroyed the crime scene. No! What? Turns out that was not great that people did that. So anyway, that's kind of the day that everything was discovered.

But let's jump back to the day that Ed and Eleanor were last seen alive. First off, Eleanor sang in the choir at the church where Ed was the priest. But they'd been having this affair. And it was fairly well known in the congregation i mean it's hard to know how well known but people seem to kind of know what was up i have a question okay you're referring to him as a priest but you also said he's married what oh shit minister priest religious dude you know one of the articles did say priest, and I didn't question it at all. Uh-huh.

But he was Episcopalian. Okay. So that'd be minister, right? Probably. Let's say minister from now on. Okay. So some members of the congregation knew about it or suspected it. And when the police eventually came and talked to Eleanor's neighbor, the neighbor was like, oh, yeah.

And when the police eventually came and talked to Eleanor's neighbor, the neighbor was like, oh, yeah. The minute Eleanor's husband leaves for work, Ed just comes on by. He parks his car right over there. You know, like, so people kind of knew. Oh, my gosh. But after these two bodies were found, Eleanor's husband and Ed's wife were both like, oh, my God. I had no idea they were having an affair. They both said. Really? I had no idea they were having an affair. They both said, really? Mm-hmm.

Hmm. When police questioned the two spouses, Eleanor's husband said that the day that this all went down, Eleanor left the house without telling him or their two teenagers where she was going. And once it got late, he started to kind of worry. So he went to the church to see if she was there. But she wasn't. So he just went back home and went to sleep.

What? Yeah. He claimed that she did this sometimes. Like she would just leave for a day or two. And she always came back. So... Oh my God. If my husband didn't come home, Sometimes, like, she would just leave for a day or two, and she always came back, so. Oh, my God. If my husband didn't come home.

Yeah. No fucking way would I be able to go asleep. Yeah, no, no. And it wouldn't just be like, oh, well. I hope she's home tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah. And granted, this was, like, eons before cell phones and all that stuff but still you would still worry yeah absolutely uh anyway when police question ed's wife francis said that

ed did tell her that he was leaving to go meet eleanor um but he said i'm meeting eleanor about her medical bill so what does that mean? Eleanor, like nine months prior, had needed kidney surgery, but she and her husband couldn't afford it. So Ed, this minister, generously offers, I'm going to pay for it in installments. You may be wondering, how could he afford to pay for it if he's a minister? Yes. Dude married very well. When he was 30, he married 37-year-old, shit, what's her name?

Okay, he married 37-year-old Frances Stevens Hall. She was super wealthy, came from a very prominent family. She's rumored to be related to the johnson and johnson family oh yeah um so none of the articles said this baby powder thing's really gonna do something so nobody like no one in the articles said this, but in my mind, okay, he offers to pay for this woman's surgery with basically his wife's money. Yeah. Yeah. So.

Ugh, sleazeball. I agree. I agree. But here's the thing. When Ed didn't come home that night, Frances claimed she was worried. And she went and knocked on her brother's bedroom door. And she's like, Ed's not home. I'm really worried.

By the way, this is how wealthy they were. This home she was in is now owned by Rutgers University. It's like a dean's residence. It is beautiful. Did some Googling. Did some Googling. That could also be the tagline to this podcast. Did some Googling.

So, you know, she and the brother get up. They go to the church, but there are no lights on at the church. Then they go to Eleanor's house, but there are no lights on there. So they go back home, and the next afternoon, Frances reports her husband missing to the police. So at this point, i have two issues if neither one of them knew that their spouses were having affairs why did they go to the other yeah yeah well okay no no no now i'm now that i think about it she did tell police he was supposed to meet eleanor so i guess it might make sense to go to eleanor's house but still i don't know i yeah i'm anyway anyway so moving on this thing every reporter from everywhere was covering this thing and it was i mean it was crazy exciting you

you can't make this shit up torn up love letters over dead bodies that have been positioned. I mean, weird. So police are investigating this crime, but the investigation is going nowhere. but the crime scene had been trampled to shit, and clearly both of these spouses had a motive, but with no evidence, what the hell do you do? So in just a pure desperation move, the prosecutor asks to have the bodies exhumed and reexamined. What he hoped to find, the world may never know. A note in the pocket. So-and-so did it. They were still dead. Oh my gosh! You're kidding!

Still had both been shot, you know. So he really found nothing new. So, again, just spinning their wheels. Finally, police caught a break. After hours of interrogation, a young man admitted that he knew who did it. It was his friend, Clifford Hayes. Who the fuck's Clifford Hayes? Hold on to your hat. That's over your dead head.

Yes! So, he told the detective that Clifford went on a walk the night of the murders. So he's out walking on this lover's lane alone, and he spots two figures, a man and a woman. He mistakes them for the girl he has a crush on and some other dude, and he is just pissed. So he murders them both, and it's like a case of mistaken identity

no no no is that is that uh bullshit my goodness my goodness what on earth made you think that that was bullshit um yeah so you're not the only one who thought that was complete bullshit. But based on that story, the prosecutor charged Clifford Hayes with the murders. Because he didn't have anything else. He's like, yes, finally. Exactly. I have somebody to charge. Exactly.

Doesn't matter that it's. We've got all this media in town. Everybody's asking me. And finally, we've got an answer. Well, here's the thing, though. It's funny because in this case, like, in some ways, all the media coverage, I'm sure, wasn't great. But in this case, in this particular instance for Clifford, it was awesome. Because then this comes out, and people are all like whoa whoa whoa okay so he

kills him why position the bodies and where the fuck do the love letters come from yes yes what the hell what's with the love letters why overkill yeah no no it's a way more personal crime than that yeah people were just like, this makes no sense. It was clearly not some spur-of-the-moment crime. No. No, no. Not at all. So people didn't stand for it.

They were super suspicious of Detective Frank Kirby, who was the one who got the young man to blame Clifford Hayes for the crime. And they literally threw stones at him when he walked by. This was another time. Oh, my God. They threw stones at him. They shouted mean things to him. Because nobody believed that Clifford did it.

It didn't make any sense at all. And a bunch of people actually created a created a fund for his defense and people were pitching in from all over within three days the young man who had kind of broken down under interrogation recanted the story yeah said no made it all really made it up and they dropped the charges against clifford oh my gosh yes But now police have to go back to the drawing board. And now they're in, like, double trouble because they were super shitty with this Clifford kid. And now they've really got nothing. So they start to look more closely at the two people with motive.

Yeah. The spouses of the dead couple. But again, even though there's motive there's no evidence whatsoever yeah to pin anybody to this crime and that's when a new witness comes forward her name is jane gibson she's a 50 year old hog farmer oh i Oh, I couldn't wait for the pig farmer to come in. And the media nicknamed her Pig Woman. Well, that's just mean. Yeah, we're going to talk a lot about her.

The media had a lot to say about her. One source said that she was a former carny, but they didn't use the term carny. I can't remember what they said. The other thing they said was that, a former carny but they didn't use the term carny i can't remember what they said the other thing they said was that like the other thing they said was that like oh god i wish i could remember it was such a condescending awful thing to say about somebody but it was like she showed up with her son of unknown parentage. You know, like, basically saying, this old pig woman, she was having sex with everybody.

Who knows who the dad is of this thing? Oh, my gosh. But anyway, so this woman comes forward, and the bodies were actually found on her property. So she tells a story of the night of the murder. She says she was in her home. She heard her dog bark. And she thought, oh, my gosh, someone is out there trying to steal my crops.

So she gets on her mule to try to find this guy. Sure enough, she finds this thief. They, you know, engage in a chase. Tango? I was making tango moves. Duck, duck, duck. He was an excellent dancer, which is just really convenient. No, so she chases him out to the lover's lane.

And it's at that point that she sees four people. She sees two men, two women. Yes. It's dark out, though, so she doesn't get a good look at faces and stuff. But, okay, hold on. I'm sorry. This is like the worst part. Oh my gosh, it's so exciting! Because I want to get this story exactly right. Okay. So yeah, looks like two women, two men. They're all standing. She hears gunshots. And at that point, she's like, whoa, no, I've got to get out of here. So as she's leaving, she hears a woman shout, Henry. So worth noting that Frances, the wife of Edward, had a cousin named Henry. I was wondering who Henry was. Who lived semi-nearby.

Oh my gosh. Okay. So she claims that she came forward to the police with this story. And they were like, get out of here, pig woman! Exactly. Exactly. They were like, nah. And the other thing they said about this story was it doesn't it doesn't match what we know because

they were saying look we don't know much but we do suspect that just from the way the bullet went into edward's head that he couldn't have been standing when he was shot so police were suspicious but a lot of people were kind of like hey this this sounds kind of right there could be something to this yeah so people got excited like jane's story gave people a lot of hope because finally they had an answer and it was a hell of a lot better than some random guy named clifford stumbles upon two people and murders them here's the shitty thing jane loved to tell this story. She told it to reporters. She told it to neighbors. She told it to everybody.

And every time she told it, it got a little better. Oh, God! So, you know, you heard that first version. You know, the first version, oh, I didn't really see anything. I heard some gunshots. I heard the name Henry. Okay. But she starts to add in some fun new details because why not?

So she starts to add in like, oh, well, there were two cars actually. And the headlights were on. So I did see some faces. And you know, one was Francis and I saw her brothers and I saw the cousin. Yeah. Saw everyone very well. Yes. And oh, I heard another thing i just remembered i just remembered i didn't just hear some woman say henry i heard some woman say how do you explain these notes of course oh i remembered another thing i remember uh eleanor at one point tried to escape but they brought her back oh my god then this is this is my favorite because like yes um then she claims that when she was fleeing that scene the first time she lost her moccasin and at one in the morning she's like well i gotta get that shoe back so she goes back at one in the morning what does does she see? It's Frances standing over her husband's dead body, weeping.

Oh, yeah. So I'm sure these stories sold a lot of papers. Yes. But the people around her were like, Yes. But the people around her were like, So, like, first of all, her neighbor saw her the morning after these bodies were discovered. And she was like, yeah, Jane didn't tell me any of these stories.

Oh, my gosh. And Jane also had people boarding in her house, and they were like, yeah, she never mentioned this to us. I mean, why would she keep silent about this this whole time? Another small detail when she came forward she told everyone she was the widow of a minister her her husband was alive and not a minister so oh god but there were still some people who believed this story or some version of it just because you know as nutty as it was it at least made more sense i mean you know what i'm saying i think people wanted answers yeah and like maybe this is possibly an explanation yeah yeah i can see that so when she finally talked to police she she said the shooter that night was Francis Hall's cousin, Henry.

So police took what she said seriously this time. They questioned Henry, but he had a pretty good alibi. He said he was with friends all night and he had friends to back it up. So, you know, meh. Finally, a few months after. Meh. That's what police said so finally a few months after the deaths the prosecutor convened a grand jury there were 67 witnesses including our friend the pig woman pig woman so they were looking at i it was kind of hard to figure out but i think they were looking at francis her two of hard to figure out, but I think they were looking at Francis, her two brothers, and the cousin Henry.

But it went nowhere. There were no indictments. Yeah. For years, nothing happened. Then, Francis Hall's former maid, Louise, had some marital troubles. She'd been married for less than a year. When all of a sudden, her husband comes forward and he's like, I want an annulment. I am disgusted.

And he had this story. He claimed that at some point when Ed and Eleanor were alive, Louise learned that they were planning to elope together, which I don't know how you elope when you're married, but, you know, whatever. Whatever. You get the idea. Yeah. So out of loyalty to her boss she went and told francis hey there's something up then i guess at some point after the murders francis brought louise her chauffeur and her brother to show them the murder scene then she paid Louise $5,000 in hush money.

Okay. Louise was like, no, that never happened. That's completely false. The chauffeur came forward, said the same thing. That never happened. That's totally made up. But people kind of believe that story too. And one of the people who believed that story was the governor of New Jersey.

Oh, my gosh. So he appointed a special prosecutor to reopen this case, look into it again. So four years after the murders, Frances Hall, her two brothers, and her cousin were arrested and charged with the murders. Even though there wasn't much evidence. I know. On what evidence? Yeah. Exactly. Oh, my on what evidence? Yeah, exactly. Oh my gosh. They all pled not guilty, and the cousin was granted a separate trial.

So again, the prosecution had a motive, but they didn't have much evidence. So they just, I think their strategy was just like, let's load up on witnesses. 157 witnesses. What the fuck? Guess who their star witness was? Pig Woman. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

So at the trial, Jane stole the show. I'd like to point out that I was really offended by the nickname Pig Woman, and I've called her it no less than 10 times now. You would not believe the flip-flops I have done because like when I first looked at this case I was like that is horrible and I had I had seriously half a page of just like the the reporter from time was terrible and he said this and I was just mad mad mad and then I started reading more like, what she did and how she just kind of made it.

And I was like, you know what? Pig woman's fine. Pig woman's fine. Yeah, you can say whatever you want. That's right. Pig woman it is. But no, I'm with you because immediately I was like, this is not okay. They did this to this poor...

And I was so on her side, too. I, initially, I was like, oh, this is just this kind of disheveled woman who no one wanted to believe but she saw the whole thing and no no probably not so at the trial jane stole the show oh god she was oh god i wish i could see this she was brought in on a stretcher yes she was brought in on a stretcher because she said she didn't feel well. Oh, God. So she told a story about coming onto the scene with all of them there and going back at 1 a.m. for her shoe and seeing Frances Hall crying over her husband's dead body.

Oh, my gosh. In the middle of her testimony, her mom stood up and was like, You're a liar. Nobody listened to her. my daughter is a liar she's a lying liar who lies yes so obviously uh it was not hard for the defense to discredit jane um first of all she looked like shit i mean all i yeah so there's like the superficial stuff but then there's also um they pointed out okay she changed her story a million times and then they also brought in a witness who said um yeah jane tried to bribe me with some money in

if i would support her testimony oh my god my gosh. So, you know, there goes the star witness. And throughout the trial, any time the prosecution took a step forward, the defense came back swinging. Yeah. And I probably don't need to mention this, but obviously these people were super wealthy, so they had awesome defense attorneys. Yeah.

Duh. One point, and I still don't know. Okay. I'll don't know. Okay. I'll just say this. At one point, they called Frances' daughter to the stand to identify her mother's love letters. Which, apparently this shitty daughter, like, sold her mom's love letters for $500 to some newspaper or magazine. But I guess my question is, okay, what does that prove? Yeah, what does that prove?

Yeah, I mean, maybe it proves, I assume the love letters were to someone, you know, to not Edward. But, I mean, he was having an affair, too. And, you know, lots of people have affairs. They don't murder two people and tear up love notes all over the place. and tear up blood notes all over the place. So at another point, they called in a state trooper who said that Henry the Cousin paid him to drop the case. Which, how a state trooper drops the case. But anyway, that's just what we've got here.

Don't question me. You know, that seemed pretty damning, right? But then the defense gets up and he goes, um, are you in Alcatraz right now? And the dude's like, uh, yeah, I'm in Alcatraz because I'm a military deserter. And so then, of course, everyone's like, mm. You know what he should have said? What? I mean, not right this minute.

No, I'm in a courtroom. Duh. me not write this minute no i'm in a courtroom so suddenly you know people didn't care too much about what he had to say once they kind of learned like he's not some stand-up guy yeah so the trial lasted for about 30 days the jury deliberated for five hours what What do you think they found? Not guilty. They acquitted all of the victims. Yeah. To this day, the murders of Edward and Eleanor are unsolved. By the time it finished, it was the most reported trial in American history. Oh my gosh. Now, before we get any further, because normally I always interrupt with myself with like, and I get this from here, this from here.

Most of this I got from a book that I couldn't tell you the title of because I knew it would ruin everything. The title of the book is Cold Cases, Famous Unsolved Mysteries, Crimes, and Disappearances in America by Helena Katz. So thank you, Helena Katz. And I'm sorry I didn't give you a shout outout earlier, but I didn't want to ruin it. But can you believe that? Oh, you know what? I missed a part. I missed a part.

So the whole time I was looking into this, I was like, why didn't they question Eleanor's husband more? It seemed like no one really looked at him. And let me find what I got. Okay. So one newspaper columnist called Eleanor's husband, and I am quoting here, a harmless, dull little fellow. And it seemed like.

Where's the big woman? It really seemed like everyone was just kind of looked at him and was like, nah, you didn't commit a double murder. He couldn't do it. It was seriously.

I bet he did it. See, I mean, who knows? But it was like everyone thought he was too dweeby to commit this crime.

No, it's a perfect crime. Just be a big dweeb. Yeah. So, I, Oh my gosh. This this is i hate cold cases i don't like it i hate this and like last night i was how dare you bring up i know i know it's such a good one i know i know it's crazy it's crazy um the so the piece of evidence, and I would put this in quotation marks because I think this can go either way, against Frances was that after the murders, I think it was like six days after the murders, she sent some clothing to Philadelphia to be dyed black. Hmm.

Which to me is like, okay, was there blood on it? Right. In that case, great. If not, then she just had a dead husband and was in mourning. Was she in mourning, exactly. Yeah. Which either would explain it. I know.

Because that was very common then, right? Yeah. You were just in black and mourning. Yeah, yeah. But again, I feel like. In case you missed that, that was... Right into the fucking microphone. That's your thinking wheeze.

My thinking wheeze. Never made that noise before in my life. Had to do it right into the microphone. The fuck? But yeah, this case bothers me so much. Because I feel part of me is like, okay, well, it's one or the other. It's Frances and her brothers who evidently— What if it's both?

What if they work together? I doubt it. Why? Don't you? Because he was a dweeb. That's why. He was such a dweeb. Part of me is like, okay, the overkill with Eleanor.

Yeah. Part of me is like, okay, the overkill with Eleanor. Yeah. And I guess this could go either way, but part of me thinks, okay, Edward died in a much more dignified way. And someone cares. It has to be Frances because she's so pissed at Eleanor. Yeah. Even though I think that's dumb.

For the record, you know, I just think that's dumb. Like, your spouse is the one who's supposed to be loyal to you. But I can understand how, you know, you're. You love your spouse. You blame it on that bitch of a woman. The hope of showing the choir. So that's what makes me think that it was her rather than Eleanor's husband. Because also, his watch was missing. But money was still there.

Maybe that was the watch, like a family heirloom. That's what I wonder. Or like something to remember him by. My gosh. Here's a crazy theory that I saw online. I'm ready for it. Someone, and I can't remember who, said that maybe it was the KKK. Why?

Well, okay, immediately I thought that was dumb. Because, just to be honest, I immediately was like, the KKK killed two white people. But I started thinking about it more. I still think it's wrong. But I put my tinfoil hat on. Let me position it on there real good, real tight. And, you know, when we talked about the KKK, I think it was like the second or third episode with the D.C. Stevens thing.

Their whole thing supposedly was like, we're just a good Christian organization. We're just a good Christian organization. And so maybe if they felt like someone was doing Christianity wrong. A minister was. Which, boy, I mean, if the KKK says you're not a good Christian. You really got to re-examine your life. But I don't know. So maybe.

But even then, I just can't imagine. No, I think it's Francis. Yeah, it's too personal. Yeah. It's very, I think it's a very personal crime. Yeah. I think it's got to be Francis. Oh, man.

Also, I should mention, Eleanor was very good looking. Francis, not so much. Worth noting. Worth noting. Worth noting. That was so good. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. It was, it has been bugging me so much because, first of all, I procrastinated with this one. I started researching it yesterday. Because I guess when I first looked at it Monday night, I was like, oh, that's, you know, looks pretty straightforward.

Nothing to it. Well, then you get deeper into it and there's all these twists and turns. And I'm like, damn it. I wish I had more time. Which, because I really want to know more about Eleanor's husband. Yeah. And why did everyone just dismiss him? I really do wonder if people just thought he was pathetic uh-huh he couldn't get

his shit together enough to murder two people well and people people are weirdly judgmental about like a husband or a man who gets cheated on yes absolutely because you know people tend to have this attitude like oh men are dogs they'll do it but like if a woman cheats on you yeah you're a dweeb you're a dull spineless little fellow spineless little fellow that's right can you believe that that's a good one i hate that there's no resolution i'm gonna solve this case okay you know what i want to i to. It was just killing me. It was killing me. Sorry, podcast over.

We have a new mission in life. We have to solve this case. Yeah, I can never do another unsolved one because it just, I keep thinking about it. What am I going to do about it? It happened in 1922. Yeah. about it happened in 1922 yeah oh the other thing i forgot to mention was i'm pretty sure they exhumed the bodies again oh god yeah before they still dead the third time okay well get this the third time was when they apparently noticed that eleanor's tongue was missing which nobody looked

before i see part of me is really suspicious of that first of all how did no one look yeah um and i i guess i don't know where her tongue went ew yeah you think oh god somebody has her tongue edward's watch is wrapped around his neck. So gross. But don't you wonder, like... Tongue is the missing piece. Find the tongue, find the murderer. Don't you wonder where that watch is? Yes. I mean...

Francis has it. No, Francis' fucking grandkid has it now and has no idea. See, this is what I wonder about. Like, is it in a safety deposit box somewhere i mean that watch is somewhere yes find the watch find the murder i i am convinced because you know it had to be a nice watch you know little edward didn't buy his own watch that was was Francis' family

money that bought that. I'm so victim blaming with this because part of me is like Francis did it and hey girl. I get it. I would not want to cross you. I know that's messed up. I know that's messed up. I'll just stop. I know that's messed up. I know that's messed up.

I'll just stop. I know. Just stop there. I know. I know. It's wrong. It's terrible. It's absolutely terrible.

There's no excuse ever. Oh, my gosh. It's never okay to murder your husband and his lover. Even if she's hot and she sings in the church choir and you're paying for her surgery. Yes. and she sings in the church choir and you're paying for her surgery. So that's the unsatisfying ending to The Devil Murderer. Oh man, it's a good thing the story was so good

or I'd be so pissed at you. I'm pissed at me. We can all be angry. I should have made something up. And it's solved. And I solved it. All right. Oh my gosh. And I solved it. All right. Oh, my gosh.

Wonderful. That was a good one. Thank you. I have to put the name of the... I purposely didn't fill out our outro because I was like, I don't want Brandy to see this. I don't want her to see it. I didn't even realize that I had already done mine. I was like, oh, I have to do that real quick.

I'm just so on top of it. Shut up! I did it this morning in my pajamas watching the Olympics. What was on today? I was watching, uh, it was cross country skiing and I cried. Why? Because, okay, so the, the, it was a relay. It was a two-person relay.

And they did like six laps and they alternated laps. And it was women's. The, America has not won a cross-country skiing medal in like 40-something years. And the girl, so it was a two-person team. And the first person, this is like her like fifth Olympics or something like that. team and the first person this is like her like fifth olympics or something like that and the second girl is like her first olympics and she's young and she like looked up to this woman that she's racing with her whole life and her whole life she had a picture of the guy who won the one the only medal the united states has ever won

in a cross-country event on her wall. And she, she did the last leg. She fucking sprinted her life away and took the fucking gold. Oh my God. Oh my God. That is so touching. It was amazing. I just, and she was like in third place going into like the last turn.

And they're like she's totally gassed she can't do it she's totally gassed and then she like sprinted like her fucking legs off and took the gold that is it was amazing that is that is so cool that is so cool oh my god and like the commentators were like, she's got it. They're, like, screaming. Yes. And, like, it was amazing. Oh, my God.

That makes me so happy. Yes. I love that so much more than just she was in the lead the whole time. It was really exciting. No, no. Yes. Come up from behind. Yes.

Oh, my God. That is great the guy that won the gold um for like the individual cross-country skiing race he was from norway and he got knocked over in like the start and it's like huge race tons of people he gets knocked over he's at the like he gets trampled he's at the very back of the pack. He comes back and wins the whole fucking thing. Whoa. Yes. Damn. Yes.

I see. And part of me wonders, like, does having that happen, like, fire you up? Yeah. Because I would be pissed. I would also win the gold. It's really just a choice that you make. That's right. In that moment, you have to choose not to give up.

And just, you know. I would think it. Really. Go for the gold. If you enjoyed this episode, please. Like us on Facebook. Yes. Give us a review.

Subscribe to our podcast. Yeah, don't give us us a review. Subscribe to our podcast. Yeah, don't give us a shitty review, okay? Come on, guys. If you didn't like it, just don't listen to us. Just don't tell anybody how bad we are. Don't tell anybody how bad it was. If you did like it, tell everyone you know. But maybe warn them about, like, the content sometimes and the language.

Warn them that we're not classy, that we curse a lot. And so far, almost every episode has involved like sex or asses. That's right. Yeah, this one was free of penises for the first time. Yeah, hey, it was.

Penis-free episode. Good job. We hope you enjoyed this penis-free episode. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, We hope you enjoyed this penis-free episode. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia.

So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got a lot of great info from the book Cold Cases, Famous Unsolved Mysteries, Crimes and Disappearances in America by Helena Katz. And I got my info from articles by Carrie Codd and Joan Murray for CBS News Miami, as well as an article by Katie Mettler for The Washington Post. For a full list of our sources, visit LGTCpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours. but please don't take our word for it go read their stuff