Let's Go To Court! - 89: The Divorces of Kim Kardashian & Susan Kuhnhausen

Episode Date: October 2, 2019

It’s divorce week! In this episode, we’ll talk about Kim Kardashian’s two divorces and we’ll hear about a guy who *really* didn’t want a divorce. It was 1988 and Susan Walters was ready for love. So she placed a personal ad in the Willamette Week. Her ad read, in part, “SWF, 33, overweight but not over life, seeks SM who wants more out of a relationship than just “slender.” Her ad went on to describe herself as an adventurous, active health care professional. That caught the attention of Mike Kuhnhausen. The pair hit it off immediately, and were married a short time later. But over the course of many years, the couple grew apart. Mike’s negative outlook on life didn’t mesh well with Susan’s sunny personality. After 17 years of marriage, Susan asked for a divorce. But Mike didn’t like that idea.  Then Kristin wraps things up with the stories of Kim Kardashian’s two divorces. When she was just 19 years old and high on ecstasy, Kim and 29-year-old music producer Damon Thomas eloped in Las Vegas. Their marriage lasted just a few years. In documents that have since been made public, Kim alleged that Damon was physically and emotionally abusive. Damon denied physically abusing Kim. A few years later, Kim met NBA player Kris Humphries. The pair’s highly publicized, star-studded wedding drew international attention. But the wedding lasted just 72 days. The divorce, however, lasted almost two years.  And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Exclusive: Kim Kardashian’s divorce scenes on ‘KUWTK’ were reshot and scripted” by Chantal Waldholz for Life and Style Magazine “Kim K/Kris H officially divorced,” TMZ “Kim Kardashian and Kris Humphries divorce timeline,” US Magazine “Kanye bought his first phone because of Kris Humphries,” Kocktails with Khloe clip on YouTube “I never wanted to be that guy,” by Kris Humphries for the Players Tribune “In Touch Exclusive Interview: Kim Kardashian ex-husband tells all,” In Touch Weekly “Kim Kardashian and Kris Humphries Wedding was 7 Years Ago: Remembering Their 72-Day Marriage,” by Natalie Stone for People Magazine “He punched me in the face and told me I needed liposuction: Kim Kardashian’s marriage hell revealed for first time,” Daily Mail “Kris Humphries talks marriage to Kim Kardashian, ‘brutal’ divorce: ‘I was in a dark place’” by Sara Moniuszko for USA Today “The Dark Secrets Behidn Kim Kardashian’s First Marriage that Everyone Forgot About,” by Chelsea Leary for Showbiz CheatSheet In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “A Hit Man Came to Kill Susan Kuhnhausen. She Survived. He Didn’t.” by Beth Slovic, Willamette Week “Intended Murder Victim Has Her Day In Court” The Oregonian “Woman Who Strangles Attacker Wins $1 Million From Estranged Husband” by Kathleen Glanville, The Oregonian “Portlander Michael Kuhnhausen, who hired hitman to kill wife (she strangled him), dies in prison” by Bryan Denson, The Oregonian “No Bigger Gamble” episode Who the (Bleep) Did I Marry “Susan/John and Jean/Penny” episode I Survived

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A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about the divorces of Kim Kardashian.

And I'll be talking about a man who really didn't want to get divorced. Oh no, did he kill the woman instead? Oh, did he? Oh no. Hey, mine is much more upbeat. So this is an episode that was voted on by the people. Oh, I was about to say the patrons. Well, it is the patrons okay i was going to then say who the people were okay well sorry brandy who are these people you speak of are the patrons these are our supporters on patreon and we had them vote

on this episode's topic they got to choose from divorces or custody battles and divorces won by a landslide and i'm so glad it did because custody battles would have been very sad my mom was very upset she was like i i just want you to know i really don't want custody battles to win i was like don't worry mom like nobody else did nobody wants to do anything so we are bringing you two famous divorce cases. Although yours is not quite famous. Yeah. No, there is a divorce involved in mine, but in true Brandy fashion, you know, I had to mix it up a little bit. Okay.

Well, in true Kristen fashion, I followed the rules. That's so us. I'm like, yes, technically I follow the rules, but you know, I didn't do it my own way. No. And I was very nervous the whole time making sure I was covering the exact right thing. If you are wondering how you can vote on a future episode, all you have to do is become a patron. Head on over to patreon.com slash LGTC podcast and join up at any level to get to vote on a future episode. We actually have one that's up now. The one that's up now is old-timey cases versus ongoing cases. Let us know what you want to hear.

To vote, it's just you're at the $2 monthly level. If you want to hear bonus episodes and vote and join the Discord, that's $5. If you want to go just balls to the wall, as Kristen loves to say. I was trying to think of a new way to say it. But that's how you always say it. If you want to go balls to the wall, and we know you do, you go $7 a month. You get all the things we just mentioned, plus a Let's Go to Court sticker, our little autographs. You get an induction into the actual Supreme Court.

And I hope you have a legal background because you'll be called out to make some important decisions regularly all right let's jump on into divorce week here at lgtc podcast okay as mentioned um mine is not a divorce case as well what the hell as you would um as you may have expected but i promise a divorce is involved and I promise that you will be on the edge of your seat. Okay. And right off the bat, a bunch of this information comes from this really amazing article in the Willamette Week, which I'm not even going to tell you what it is because I tell you what it is in the story. Okay. But the article is by Beth Slavik okay Mike Kuhnhausen looked through the personal ads in the Willamette week this was a Portland Oregon alternative

newsly nope weekly newspaper so I'm thinking the pit like the pitch that we have here in Kansas City so like uh just like a not your newspaper, but had a personals section, which it's 1988 at this time, and was apparently some kind of like pre-smartphone Tinder. Yeah. People put profiles about themselves in there, whatever. So Mike's skimming through the ads, and he was looking for something that stood out. And there it was. it was a personal ad entitled someone different mike's interest was peaked the ad continued single white female s 33 yeah they always had acronyms yes swf 33 overweight but not over life okay but i thought it was always BBW, right? No, I think, I don't know. Wait, is BBW Big Black beautiful?

I don't know. I'm sorry. I think. I'm looking it up. Big Beautiful Woman? Yeah, yeah, Big Beautiful Woman. BBW is Big Beautiful Woman. Yeah.

Well, maybe she didn't want to call herself that. She's actually. They pay by the letter. I'm just trying to save her money saying that she talks a lot about her personality in this in this ad not much about her looks okay oh you're saying maybe she didn't want to oversell it okay okay gotcha gotcha she said overweight but life. Seeking single male who wants more out of relationship than just slender. Active healthcare professional enjoys exploring the Pacific Northwest. Interested in conversation in good times with someone who's intelligent, thoughtful, and full of humor. Must be emotionally and fiscally mature. If you are seeking a bright,

funny lady who is adventurous enough to advertise, then please reply. I really like that. I know. I mean. It's a really good ad. It's a great ad. Yeah. I want to be her friend.

I know. And Mike wasted no time. Hi, different. My name is Mike. I'm a 39-year-old divorced white male, DWM. Was that an actual acronym? Oh, okay. I enjoy most things in nature, from wandering the ape caves at Mount St. Helens to walking on the beach at sunset. It was January 30th, 1988, when Mike learned who different was. Her name was Susan Walters, and her mother and friend had gone in together to pay for her personal ad. Mike and Susan talked on the phone for the first time that day, and things clicked right away.

May I just say, I'm not getting the same good vibes off of his little ad. You aren't. Because the things he described, walking on the beach and exploring a bat cave. Some caves. I don't know. That seems like the kind of thing that sounds good, but then no one actually does, right? Maybe. But from the first phone call, things clicked clicked they had a great rapport with each other

and over the next couple of weeks they racked up hours on the phone talking about everything they wanted out of life susan estimated that they spent over 100 hours on the phone before they ever met in person over how many weeks? Only a couple of weeks. Good Lord, people. Yeah. What year was this? 1988.

Okay. So yeah, phone. That was the only way for them to communicate. I understand, but still. Finally, Susan agreed to meet Mike for their first date because she was impressed by him. He didn't hold back on the deep conversations and she thought he had a nice voice. So in February of 1988, they met at Crystal Springs rhododendron garden somewhere near Portland where they walked and talked. They fed the ducks and squirrels. The connection they'd had on the phone was very real in person. And within the

year, December 10th, to be exact, the couple drove to Reno and they were married. No, wait, how long had they been together? So they had their first date in February, married in December. Kristen, you don't like it? I'm trying to be less judgmental. You think that's too quick? They're both in an advanced stage of their life. He's 38. She's 33. I think that's even more reason to be cautious. Really?

I think it's so common. No, I agree that it's common. I just don't think it makes sense, though. Sorry. I'm doing better than last week. Still got a little something happening. But this is the divorce episode, so we know things did not go happily ever after for Mike and Susan.

Yeah, I don't know why I'm acting like I'm a smart psychic or something. Susan recalled that within the first year of their marriage, things changed. They didn't go on the hikes and adventures that they had when they were dating. Tried to tell you, Susan. And Susan learned more about Mike's background. He had a pretty rough life. He'd been adopted, and while he'd been loved by his adopted parents, he'd always questioned his origins. He'd seen combat in Vietnam.

Maybe. he'd seen combat in vietnam maybe records show that he was a switchboard operator okay often complained to susan about how he'd been in the shit oh that's really lame yeah within the first few years of their marriage mike revealed to susan that he didn't know if there was a time in his life that he'd ever been happy. This made Susan unbelievably sad for Mike, but it also started to make her wonder if he was actually capable of complex emotions like joy and love. Finally, 17 years into their marriage, Susan decided she'd had enough. Oh. They'd never had kids, which Susan was fine with. Yeah.

It wasn't something that she really ever expected out of her life. But she'd spent 16 years dealing with Mike's shitty life philosophy that, and this is a quote, life is a shit sandwich and every day you take another bite until you die.

I hate people like that. I do too. I have encountered people like that. I do too. I have encountered people like that. Yes. It's the worst. Cannot stand it. That is the worst. Cannot stand it.

So she. You and I are not like that at all. We are not like that at all. We are such crazy optimists. We are. Can you imagine eating a legit shit sandwich? I cannot. No.

Well see, I'm trying to picture it. And then I'm like, how could someone really compare their life to that? Yeah. Like a shit panini. Like a shit panini. It'd be fine for you if it was in panini form. Yeah, what if it was grilled? What if you were promised a shit panini and then they brought you out?

A shit sandwich. A shit sandwich. You'd be really disappointed. Which is not what I ordered. Have you told this story on the podcast? I don't think so. I'll save it for later. You guys can keep going. Norman. That fits in great right great right here norman we tell us the panini story i

know we scared you with that review that said we go on too many tangents we do not give a why don't give a fuck tell us the panini story we went to a local kansas city restaurant should i should i go and name them no call out no no need no need why not well because this podcast is just getting bigger by the day no i feel like if you if we didn't say it to someone's face at the restaurant i don't want to say it behind their back on on the podcast fair enough we went to this restaurant for brunch and they had a breakfast panini on the menu a very nice place very nice restaurant nice restaurant breakfast panini had like eggs bacon uh a bunch of good stuff on it cheese cheese yeah i was like oh man that sounds good i love paninis by the way um well i get it the bread is not grilled in any way. It is soggy.

This thing resembles a panini in no way. This is not a panini. Yeah. It's a good thing you don't carry a gun because you were so mad. I was so upset that a restaurant would advertise a panini and give me a sandwich. A sandwich, yeah.

So upset. And they could have made the argument. Well, they couldn't have made this argument. I was going to say, he's not people wanting to finish this story.. And they could have made the argument. Well, they couldn't have made this argument. I was going to say, he's not people wanting to finish this story. One argument they could have made was, well, panini in Italian literally translates to sandwich. But this was not an Italian restaurant. No, and the expected. And two, in the United States, when you say a panini.

It's a grilled, smushed sandwich. Yes, this was not it. So I was very upset. And I was like, okay, when the waiter asks, when he comes and asks, how was your meal, I'm going to say something. He never asked us how was the meal. Maybe he knew. That's the standard thing. So how is everything?

I think he could see on your face. Maybe he was like, I'm not getting into that. He was ashamed of what he brought me. How did you? I saw a single tear roll down his cheek. Okay, so you did not get to air your grievances to that waiter. Yeah. How did you? I saw a single tear roll down his cheek. Okay, so you did not get to air your grievances to that waiter.

So what did you do? We'll just never go back there again. No, no, no. What steps did you take? Oh, I'm sorry. Well, one, we will never go there again. And two,

I went on Amazon immediately and bought myself a panini press. And I use it at least once a week. Yes. And I use it at least once a week. Yes. And I love it. I am still waiting

for my peanut butter and jelly panini. Yeah. We're going to do peanut butter and jelly panini. I think that sounds amazing. I think I would definitely like to try it.

Yeah. Anyway, that's my panini story. Excellent. Okay. So, it's 17 years in this marriage

and Susan finally has come to terms that like, she's not happy. She's never going to be able to make Mike happy. And it's not our responsibility to make him happy. And so in September of 2005, she kicked him out. and moved in with his parents and Susan went about taking control of her life like taking her life back over and finding a way back to her own happiness over the next year or so Mike and Susan stayed in regular contact they were friendly with each other and saw each other somewhat regularly Mike would come over and feed Susan's cats because she worked long hours as an emergency room nurse and so he would just he moved out of the house but she never changed the locks she never changed her alarm code and so he could come and go she wasn't afraid of him no she just wanted to be done yeah okay so he could come and go he could feed the cats when she needed him to and everything and they and they were cordial but over that same time susan rejected mike's

multiple attempts at reconciliation he was like please let me move back in let's just get back together and and susan said no every time she was sure that that's not what she wanted in fact susan wanted to move forward with a divorce susan was so sure that she was ready to move forward and make the separation official that she removed Mike as the beneficiary on her life insurance policy. Wow. Yeah. She changed it to her brother.

This move by Susan, unbeknownst to her, would set Mike on a path to avoid divorce at all costs. That would finally come to a head on September 6th, 2006. On that evening, it was a Wednesday. Susan's like 51, I think, at this point.

She ended her shift in the emergency room at the hospital. She decided she was going to stop at a little hair salon in Portland and get herself a haircut on the way home. She sits down in the waiting room, waits her turn, picks up a copy of Oprah magazine and is just kind of flipping through it. And she read a quote that really stuck out to her. It said, I will not die an unlived life i will not live in fear and she was like wow that really like struck a chord with her and was like an unlived life yeah i'm not gonna live an unlived life yeah she it was her turn she got her hair cut you know just a little trimmy trim and then set off for home.

It was like an hour had gone by by the time she got home to her little Cape Cod style home with the picket fence inside. Just exactly what I imagine like a little home in Portland looks like. Yeah, adorable. Yes, exactly. She walked in through the back door of her house, heard her alarm, you know, chirp and start to beep to be disarmed. She disarmed the alarm and then she saw a note from Mike. She had asked him if he could house sit the next couple of days for it because she was going to be working at the hospital, asked if he could come over and feed the cats. And there was a note from Mike that said, Sue, haven't been sleeping, had to get away, away went to the beach i'll see you on friday

or saturday so that was like his way of saying no i'm not going to be able to feed the cats and she was like okay you know whatever um she disarmed the alarm and then went back outside to go get the mail she's like standing in her yard flipping through the mail it's like 6 30 in the evening it's beautiful outside it's this great. It's like 630 in the evening. It's beautiful outside. It's this great September day. She goes back in the house, kicks off her Birkenstocks. She's still got her scrubs on.

And then she like walks through the kitchen and then stands and she looks down the hallway to where her bedroom is and she noticed it's very dark. And every morning she opens the curtains

in her bedroom. And so it leaves it, lets in a bunch of natural light. And the light isn't coming in. She's like, did I forget to open those curtains this morning? There's no way I forgot to open those curtains this morning. And then out of the darkness came a man. No, no, no, no.

It was a stranger. This five foot nine man. He was wearing like khakis and a striped shirt. He had a ponytail and a baseball hat on. The hat was pulled down low to kind of to disguise his face or cover his face and then he had on like yellow cleaning gloves oh shit and he carried a hammer oh oh fuck and susan just felt the panic well up in her the man came at her and as i mentioned susan was an emergency room nurse she had had tons of training and years of experience in dealing with people who were on drugs dealing with all kinds of people she from her experience she knew that she needed to stay as close to this

man as possible really proud him because then he wouldn't be able to hit her as hard with the hammer. Wow. Yeah. Man, talk about not your natural instinct. No kidding. Holy crap. I would have gotten myself killed in no time. And so that's exactly what she did.

She pressed her body up directly to him. He. It's very, sorry to. Yeah, no, go ahead. It's very similar in boxing. Yeah. When they're trading blows and like a boxer will hug the other boxer. I've always wondered why they did this.

It's because they cannot hit you as hard. That is brilliant. Yes. Okay, yes. So she immediately presses her body up to him. She's 5'4". He's 5'9". Oh, boy.

But he's fairly lanky. He weighed like maybe 180, 190 pounds. And she is a heavyset woman. She outweighed him but was much shorter than him. So she's like, I'm going to have to use my weight to my advantage here. And so she crowds him and he pulls the hammer up and he lands a blow to her left temple. Oh, God. She screamed in his face as loud as she could who are you what do

you want and he's like it's a murder for hire no he didn't say he didn't say anything of course he didn't but he also didn't stop um she knew she needed to get him to the ground right that that was where she stood the best chance of being able to fight him is if she could get him to the ground right that that was where she stood the best chance of being able to fight him is if she could get him to the ground and get on top of him god she's so smart she's so smart yes so she ends up like shoving his body up against a wall and they're in her bedroom at this point and so she's like got her body up against him um and he doesn't fall to the ground he instead like pushes back against her and so they're like, you know, kind of going back and forth against this wall. Right. And

then he spoke the only words he spoke during this entire event. He said, you're strong. In that, hearing that Susan said it just like sent this wave of adrenaline through her. She said she knew in that moment he was there to kill her.

Yes. In that she had to do whatever she could to make sure he wasn't successful. You know, that's a really good point. Yeah. Because if someone was just robbing the place. Yeah. Which, why would they have a hammer and gloves on? Exactly.

But if they were just just if they didn't have murder on their mind they wouldn't be fighting you that hard yeah so she's pushing him they're having this like they're i mean their bodies are right up against each other they're having this like weird you know mashed together fight he's trying to get swings off the hammer she's keeping him from being able to do that and she just keeps keeps saying, who sent you here? Who sent you here? And he won't respond. She somehow managed to get the hammer from him. Yes. And she swung it.

And she hit him three times, maybe four, with the claw side. Woo. She meant business. Yes. She meant business. And then she made contact with his skull like she wasn't she wasn't holding back at all you're not fucking around no you're not um somehow he got the hammer back from her oh jesus she grabbed him by the throat with her hands and she yelled again who sent you here

and so she's got her hands around his throat and he starts to turn purple oh my god like turns purple and then blue and so at this point susan's like this might be my chance this might be like he might if i let go maybe he will pause and catch his breath and i can get away right and so she lets go and she runs to flee. Yes. And she thought, you know, this is my opportunity. But she got to the hallway and the man was there immediately behind her. He like grabbed her and spun her in the hallway.

And this is a super narrow hallway. We're talking about this really small little cottage. Right. Narrow hallway. The two, like he spins her around. He punches her in the face. Her lip splits open. She's bleeding everywhere.

She falls to the floor. She looks up and there is this man just standing over her with this hammer and he's about to just start pummeling her. She said in that moment, she was like, this is it. This is how I die. I am going to die right here today. And then something inside of her was like, nope, I'm not.

I have to get that hammer. I have to get him on the floor. And so she did. She somehow started fighting and got him to the floor and started biting him whoa she just starts biting him she's like if he kills me yeah my dental records bite marks will tie him to my murder which is a very 80s thing to think it is so she's biting all over him she bites his arm she bites his thigh she bites him like in the back of the leg she bites him in his crotch she bites through his clothing to his genitals get him get him yeah he she like feels into his pocket she's like feeling for a wallet something

that she can throw back into the bedroom yeah so that he if he tries to flee the scene he will leave behind some kind of id oh god she was a true crime freak she loved it just going for anything sorry i should clarify when i say she loved it not she loved this i mean she loved true crime she knew what to do yes exactly she had now been fighting this stranger for 14 minutes she had been fighting for her life somehow she gets him onto the ground where they're both kind of just like wedged on the floor in this narrow hallway she throws her leg over his body and climbs up on top of him and grab like hooks her arm around his neck and starts choking him yep and she is he's bleeding fucking everywhere because she's landed so many hits with that hammer right um and she screams in his face tell me who sent you here and i will call you a fucking ambulance he didn't say anything he growled at her what so she put more pressure on him and she just

locked her arm in around his throat until he stopped moving then she stood up grabbed hammer, and ran to the next door neighbor's house. Oh, my God. Can you imagine being that neighbor? No. Holy crap. So they get next door. She gets next door to the neighbors, and the neighbor calls 911. And this is some snippets from the 911 call.

Right, right. So the neighbor calls, and she says, we have an intruder in the house next door. The intruder was in the bedroom with a hammer. The woman who lives there thinks she may have strangled him he was down when she left and the dispatcher's like can you put her on the phone and and the neighbor's like no she's bleeding and so and the dispatcher's like does she need an ambulance and the neighbor's like no she's a nurse she's fine she says call an ambulance for the guy he may be dead yeah she's like no no no she's fine but that other guy's probably dead and so the dispatcher's like what did she use on him she strangled him what else did she do and the neighbor's like she put

a choke hold on him and the dispatcher's like okay i've i've got help on the way stay on the line um and the neighbor talks to the dispatcher and she's like she has a hammer here and the dispatcher's like, okay, I've got help on the way. Stay on the line. And the neighbor talks to the dispatcher and she's like, she has a hammer here. And the dispatcher's like, don't touch it, don't touch it. Just leave it there. And the neighbor's like, well, she hit him in the head with it several times.

That's the hammer he had with him. She struck him. She strangled him. And she thinks he's dead. And the dispatcher goes, okay, was he by himself? And so the neighbor, you can hear on the 911 call the neighbor's like checking with Susan she's like did she have anybody with him and she's like no

but she thinks maybe it was her ex-partner who sent this person and the dispatcher's like okay have there been problems with the is it the ex-husband and she said ex-partner she did talk to Mike and asked him to house sit for the cats and he said he couldn't do it he was on his way to the beach or something he left a note he knows the alarm code and the dispatcher's like okay that's good information to pass on to the officers so police officers arrive on the scene um paramedics arrive on the scene and the attacker is dead she killed him oh my yeah she fought him to death okay i don't feel great about laughing at him but what was her choice yeah it was her or him that day yeah yeah yeah that's that guy i agree yeah yeah police did find his wallet he had it on him

and his id identified him as ed haffey he was a 59 year old vietnam vet and he had arranged the murder of his ex-girlfriend. Oh. Yeah. He somehow arranged the murder. And I don't know the details on that. But he ended up pleading guilty to conspiracy to commit murder. So he had hired a hitman or something like that. And he was sentenced to nine years in prison.

Lord Almighty. I do not understand that. No, that's insane. Yeah. He had been released in November of 2003. He'd moved to Portland because those charges had happened somewhere in a different part of Oregon I believe yeah because he had spent wrote near Roseburg Oregon I'm sorry I did not bother to look that up and see where that was I apologize but after he was released from the

from an eastern Oregon correctional facility he moved to Portland and he needed a job and he landed one cleaning floors at um fantasy adult video oh no that seems like the worst place to clean the floor oh no um and the supervisor who had hired him at fantasy adult video was one michael kuhnhausen. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so they're like, oh, that's interesting. Huh. Susan's estranged ex-husband was your boss? That's weird. What a crazy coincidence.

What a crazy coincidence, yeah. So they're like, okay, great. They make that connection almost immediately. Yeah. But they don't have anything like showing that they almost immediately but they don't have anything like showing you know that they don't have a receipt for murder exactly exactly so like two days after the murder susan has a friend come with her to her house to like pack up some stuff so she can go stay somewhere for a little while right and they're like going through the house and kind of

seeing because the police have like totally oh you know torn this place apart and everything and so they're going through the house and they go seeing because the police have like totally, you know, torn this place apart and everything. And so they're going through the house and they go down to the basement. And like her basement was used as a storage area. And like the police had said it was pretty cluttered and they didn't really know like. Yeah. Yeah. What what belonged there and what didn't. And they go down to the basement and there's this backpack in the basement.

And Susan immediately is like, whoa, that's not my backpack. And so they call the police. Please come out and get it. And it's it's this ed ed guy's backpack it's got like his all of his stuff in it and um it has a a container of hershey syrup two hundred dollars in cash i know like what the fuck yeah inside the backpack was a container of hershey syrup syrup. At least use Nesquik. $200 in cash. Diabetes pills. What's a diabetes pill?

Diabetes pills. So I don't know. Like. I believe you can. There's like a pill you can take. You can take insulin. Like metformin and stuff like that that are supposed to regulate your blood sugar. I'm not a doctor, but if you have to have diabetes pills. You probably shouldn't be carrying around Hershey's syrup. Well well maybe it's for sexy times kristin you know could

be he does work at fantasy adult video oh god oh i mean if you clean the floor there probably going and killing somebody seems like a not not quite so nasty job, right? Right. And then he has a daybook inside, like a planner. Are you kidding me? Does it say go kill someone? On September 4th. No. So two days before the attack on Susan is a note that says, call Mike. And then it has Mike's brand new cell phone number under it.

Uh-huh yeah so police are like great let's track down mike and so they go and they track down mike and wouldn't you know it mike has a perfect alibi he had driven out to the coast he had checked into a hotel with a credit card well yeah i mean he wrote that note He kept receipts all along the way. Did he have like a file cabinet filled with receipts? Yeah. And then when they are finally

able to track him down, so they do, like they track all of that stuff through his financial records. Sure. Finally, they track him to purchasing a gun. What?

Yeah, he purchased a gun like the night of the attack in Portland. Was he going to kill himself after he got word that she was dead? Because two days after. Okay. Two days after the attack on September 8th, he left a suicide note at his parents' house that said, All I ever wanted was to be loved, and every time I had it, I fucked it up.

Oh, wah, wah, wah. And then he had, like, like left town they couldn't find him they put out like a be on the lookout for him and then on september 13th so this is what seven days after like that's a week after i mean susan had to just be like shitting her pants he could be anywhere yeah they find him like trying to check into a medical center saying that he needs help he said that he they they arrest him when he's in the act of checking it and i don't know how they tracked him there but he said i have nothing left to live for anymore so they put him on like a mandatory a mandatory psychiatric hold and whatever and

then finally once that was cleared they arrested him for conspiracy to commit murder of course he's like i didn't have anything to do with this oh my god you dumbass just because i knew the guy didn't mean that i had anything you you know, to do with this. Uh-huh. Just because I was planning to commit suicide that night. Yeah. I know lots of people. Yeah.

And in the meantime, an autopsy had come back on Ed, this guy who had been sent to kill Susan, and he had had, like, a near-lethal dose of cocaine in his system at the time of his death. So this guy was, was like the coke head. He's all coked up, which means he has like super strength. And she still managed to fight him off. That's amazing. That is amazing.

So he's like, Mike's like, I didn't do this. I had nothing to do with this. Like, sure, the guy used to work for me and everything. But look, he's like, Mike's like, I didn't do this. I had nothing to do with this. Like, sure, the guy used to work for me and everything. But look, he's a cokehead. Drug addicts do all kinds of crazy things. And the police are like, yeah, but, you know, somebody turned the alarm off at Susan's house. Right. You know, during the day while she was at work, we checked the alarm records.

And he's like, well, yeah, I went there and I wrote the note saying I couldn't let the cats out because I was going to the beach. Yeah, I wrote my alibi for you guys. Yeah, exactly. That's essentially what he's like, no, your story checks out. Yeah, I was there, but I left. And so the police are like, of course, the police put this together that he had been there. He let the guy in the house. He set the alarm when he left, of course, so that she would come home and be none the wiser that anybody was in the house right

um the prosecutor as they were moving forward with this said said of mike's claims of innocence he could deny it all he wanted but the weight of the evidence was overwhelming yeah they had another guy come forward who had been like a um a cellmate of ed's at some point that ed had contacted with him he'd actually gone to the meeting with ed to meet with mike where mike had offered them fifty thousand dollars to kill susan and this guy was like yeah and this guy's like no i'm not i'm not interested wow yeah and so they figure out the how they figure out you know the the connection whatever but they can't figure out the motive what did he stand to gain from this he'd already been removed yeah as her beneficiary yeah what would he gain if she was dead

well a lot of i mean sorry a lot of shitheads kill their wives or ex-wives just for the control. And that could be a huge part of it. Okay. But there was a financial motivation, the police believe as well. Because Susan was ready for a divorce. She was ready to be done. And because of their financial situation during their marriage, she was definitely the breadwinner and whatever. She had stayed in the house and she had paid off the house.

But Mike's name was still on it. If they got a divorce, he likely would not have gotten any part of the house. And it was valued at like $300,000. Okay. And a couple weeks prior to the attempted murder on Susan, he had lost his job and had no financial prospects. He was still living at his parents' house. What do you do to lose your job at the Fantasy Ranch? Right?

I don't know. So he was he was a supervisor so okay so i don't know i don't know how he lost his job but the police are like okay that's baiting on the job maybe he was gross gross so yeah so if he would have gotten divorced he would have had nothing if susan died his name was still on that house so all of it would have gone to him that makes sense yeah ultimately in august of 2007 mike pled guilty despite all of his claims of innocence he pled guilty to soliciting Susan's murder. At his sentencing, Susan had her chance to go on the stand and tell her story of what happened to that day.

In a courtroom, looking directly at Mike's face, she got to talk about, or had to talk about, you could look at it either way, what happened to her and how she fought for her life. And then she made a statement directly to Mike. She said, yeah, let's hear it.

You sought out people with criminal records, people with substance abuse issues, desperate enough to do desperate things for money. Who better to do what you were too much of a coward to do yourself? Yeah. On the stand, she pulled out a stack of photographs of her bruised face, all of the injuries that she had sustained, the gash in her scalp, her arms and back, all of the defensive wounds that she had.

And one by one, she held them up for Mike to look at. And she said, these are pictures of me in my own emergency room. Do I look OK? of me in my own emergency room do i look okay so this is in reference to something that the police had said to her that he had said to police police asked him why he had never checked on susan after the attack because he just you know gone on the run if he's innocent why had he never checked on his wife that he was dying to get back together right and he claimed that he never checked on her because he had heard she was okay yeah give me a break so she's holding up these pictures and she's like do i look okay here's another picture of me in my very own er the er i've worked in for 30 years look honey do i look okay here's the hammer strike on the side of my head do i look okay at the end susan said i am damaged by what you have done to me i am damaged but i'm not destroyed

then mike got his chance to speak. Oh, let's hear it. He rose at his table, sniffling and whimpering and crying. My life has been so hard and everybody hates me. He said, I've heard a lot of people in the last year and I'm sorry. And Susan laughed. God, I love her. I love her. Michael was sentenced to 10 years in prison are you kidding me no

what the fuck i think that's disgusting low um so he's sent off to serve his time in the meantime susan filed for and was granted a divorce um and she went back to using her maiden name of susan walters um then in March of 2008, Susan filed a civil suit against Mike for what he'd done to her. And after a two-day trial, a jury unanimously awarded her $53,700 for her medical expenses and lost wages after the attack. Okay. And then in an 11-to-1 decision, they also awarded her a million dollars for emotional distress. He'll never pay that. Exactly. That's great. So what she said was she knew that he would never pay any of that, but she hoped that it would keep him from being able to afford another hitman.

that would keep him from being able to afford another hitman. Oh. Yes. That's interesting. If he got released or when he got released, he would have to get a job and he would have to pay her money. Like the courts would require him to do it. And so it would keep him from being able to squirrel away money and afford another hitman.

That's amazing. Yeah. Did she move? She didn't't she stayed in her house that is one brave woman yeah so mike's release date was scheduled for september 14th 2014 she as that date grew closer she like withdrew into herself she became so anxious um constantly she said she felt like a broken plate glued back together like there were just parts of her that were missing now parts of her that didn't fit she wasn't her same bubbly adventurous person um anytime she went out to eat she sat where she could see the door yeah um she drove a different route home every night if she thought somebody might be following her she drove around the block she watched over her shoulder every time

she went anywhere yeah um she was quoted as saying i'm doing a life sentence for picking a bad husband oh god that's true yeah yeah he gets 10 years and she gets the rest of her life so to be terrified so she stayed in that house for a while and then as his release date neared she decided she was going to move somewhere else so that he wouldn't know where she lived. She moved to a new home, but stayed in Portland, moved to a home in a cul-de-sac. So it was like off the beaten path. She put gravel all around the house so that she could hear footsteps.

If somebody was walking to the house, she put out security cameras. She took up shooting. She got a gun, started taking a practice shooting at a nearby range heck yeah she was gonna be ready she was not taking any chances and then what happened on june 13th 2014 92 days before his release mike Mike died of cancer in prison. Wow.

Yeah. It's called karma, baby. When asked about his death, Susan said that she felt sadness. Not sad for his death, but sad that he had never known a life where he felt he could be loved. He had never known a life where he felt he could be loved. And then many people have called Susan a hero for what she did that day, for fighting for her life. And she said that's so difficult for her to wrap her mind around because she took somebody's life that day. And that is something that she carries with her. And something that will. Yeah, she didn't want to have to do. No, she didn't want to have to do that.

I mean, the reason she got up that first time she let go of his neck was she just wanted to run away. She wanted to be done with it. Yeah. I can understand how that would be really hard to live with. Yeah. But doing it yeah yeah oh my gosh that's incredible and that's the crazy story of a man who really didn't want a divorce oh god what a shithead yeah i know i've already said it i hate people like that i know life is just awful all the time and there's no hope in anything better. Yeah. I hate to say it, but stay the fudge away from me. That's right. I hate to say it, folks.

I hate to say it. I hate to use harsh language. All right. We ready for something a little lighter? Yes. Okay. First of all, did you knowardashian has been married three times tell me something i don't know do you keep up as well yeah i didn't know oh my god i have not

watched okay so i used to watch keeping up with kardashians watch it for years but now i have not watched it in years. Okay. Okay. Well, this is interesting. I thought you would be like too good for this stuff. No, there was a time in my life where I loved it, like a little short period. And I watched like all the old seasons and then like watch the current season. But that has been years ago. Okay.

Okay. Well, here we go. First of all, special thanks to the fine journalists at Us Weekly, and style magazine tmz people magazine buzzfeed you're all doing the lord's work that's right if half of this script is accurate i won't be it was the year 2000 kim kardashian aka the princess of america who calls her that um i do if we have american royalty it's the kardashians i'm sorry to tell you you're right she was just 19 years old brandy she didn't have a reality show didn't have a sex tape and she hadn't yet taught us how to contour our balloon-like faces. In January of that year, a young Kim K got high on ecstasy and eloped in Las Vegas. It was her first marriage and it was to a music producer named Damon Thomas, who was

10 years older than her. What do you think about 19 to 29? Hate it. Yes. Hate it. Hate it. Couldn't hate it more. Couldn't hate it more.

18 to 28. I would hate that more. But yeah, I feel like I say my thing on age gaps all the time. I'm going to say it here briefly. I do not like a big age gap because I'm suspicious of the older person. I think that there's some tendency to want to control. There's some tendency to go after someone who's going to be more naive. And I just think maybe you're striking out with people your own age who are wise to the

bullshit. I don't feel that strongly about people who are both older, like the difference between 40 and 50. That's not a life difference. But the life difference between 19 and 29 is fucking huge. It is. Yeah, it definitely is. Kim was just out of high school.

This guy was well into his career. Yeah, he's a music producer. Yes. So now I feel like she does like she looks like a video girl though so like it makes sense it makes sense because she's hot and i see i don't think i mean like i figured that's the type of girl that a music a 29 year old music producer is looking for he's looking for like a hot video chick i just can't imagine being 29 and wanting to go after a 19 year old i don't care what industry you're in. I think that's gross.

Yeah, I think it's gross. I'm just saying. I'm not that surprised by it. Oh. I'm surprised. I'm not at all. I'm naive. Damon Thomas isn't a household name, but he is kind of a big deal.

He's worked with Lionel Richie, Pink, Chris Brown. He's been nominated for a Golden Globe and a Grammy. A Golden Globe? Yeah. For what? You know, I didn't look that up.

I assume, so he worked on Dreamgirls, the soundtrack for Green Girls. Yeah, I almost called it Green Girls. And according to Kim Kardashian, he was a shit bag of a husband. Not the least bit surprising. He's a 29-year-old looking for a 19-year-old. Yeah. Yeah. Their marriage lasted just a few years.

Do you know any of this story? Okay. I knew she was married to him, but I didn't really know who he was. It's interesting. At some point in their marriage they separated and in 2003 damon filed for divorce wow and it was ugly in divorce documents that have since been made public kim claimed that damon was physically and verbally abusive she so these divorce these documents like they go through the whole thing so i'm just going to go through it.

She said that when she and Damon were first married, she was working as a salesperson at this clothing store called Body. And that she'd worked there for three years. So about three months into their marriage, she says that Damon was like, got super controlling, wanted her to quit her job because he got all worried and jealous that like her ex-boyfriends knew where she worked so they might go to the store and try to talk to her oh my goodness yeah i don't know he's worried about these high school kids coming after him so he's like i want you to quit i want you to quit i want you to quit so she quits so now she's a housewife and that really sucked yeah because then you know he would come home and she says that, like, regardless of what time he came home, he always expected a meal to be prepared. And he would often come home at like 430 in the morning.

So then he's like waking her up and oh, she gets the joy of cooking him some stupid meal. Yeah. Sounds great. Sounds terrible. Yeah. Yeah. Wow wow and you're 19 so you don't know well and you're totally like he has complete control you have no way to you're not making any money on your own you're like totally yeah like under his power yeah he's the big important guy yeah and you don't know anything about relationships yeah and so you're like this is this is what a relationship is this is what a marriage is yeah

wow she described a dynamic that was incredibly controlling she was not allowed to leave the house without his permission wow she couldn't even go to the grocery store without asking his permission. Apparently. So she says that he was like terrified that men would hit on her, which is like, I'm sorry if you're worried that men will find your wife attractive. Don't marry Kim Kardashian. Right. Right. I mean, yeah, good grief. So anyway, he restricted the amount of time she spent with friends and family. And she also says that he was violent. She said that one day she and Damon were going to go skydiving with Justin Timberlake.

Like you do. Yeah. And he just flipped out on her. He hit her in the face, cut her lip open, and she fell into a bed frame and banged up her knee really bad and she says that she was limping when they went skydiving another time damon learned that kim had paged someone because this was like way back in the day he asked who the person was she said who it was and he got super angry and punched her in the face. Wow. Who was it?

It didn't say. But she said. That's later. She says she thought about calling the police but was too afraid. Well, yeah, she probably was. Well, yeah. Well, and I mean. Okay, this is. Oof.

Well, and I mean, okay, this is, oof. Her experience with family friends dealing with domestic violence is that the abusers do no prison time. Yep. Yeah. So there we go. I don't need to go more into that. I think people pick up on that. People know. Yeah.

If you don't need to go more into that. People know. I think people pick up on that. People know. Yeah. If you don't know, Terry. Try Googling Kardashian and OJ Simpson. She also described a time after they separated when she wanted to go back to their house to get some of her things. She says she asked permission. He said yes. She went into their bathroom to get some of her stuff and he flipped out he slammed her against the closet wall put his hands around her neck punched the wall next to her head then grabbed her by the hair threw her across the room and she basically just ran out of the house

terrified there were some other things um he apparently gave her $3,650 to get liposuction. Okay. Which I'm like, from where? And is it really that cheap? My God. Maybe when you're getting the amount done, she would. Right. She was 19. So, or, you know, a little older by then, I guess, but still. Well, yeah, by the time you're 20, then you just balloon up. Oh, it's just terrible. Disgusting. Imagine having to be a 30-year-old man with a 20-year-old wife. Then he gave her another $1,000 for more surgeries.

But again, how many, what are you getting done with $1,000? Lip injections. But that's not a surgery. What? You get it done, like, at a plastic surgeon's. Okay, okay. You get it done like at a plastic surgeon's. Okay, okay.

The bottom line was that he wanted her to look perfect, but also never leave the house and be admired. And have no one look at her. Yes. So other things I read that I did not write down. Everybody drink. So, and these documents weren't super clear, but they said that at one point, and this is just gross, he found a picture of one of Kim's sisters naked. I don't know which one.

And then showed it to their dad. What? And called her a whore. What? Yeah. I mean, gross. Yeah. So there's some other stories like this.

Again, this is all Kim's side of the story. But there you go. The court ordered Damon to pay Kim $56,000 as like a lump sum. Did I already say their marriage ended in February of 2004? No, you did not tell us that. Excellent. Breaking news. Their marriage ended in February of 2004.

Excellent. But you may be wondering, wow, Kristen, you're such an amazing researcher. Divorce proceedings are usually pretty private. How did you get your hands on these incredible court documents? I am wondering. Okay. Well, I found them online. They were really easy to find online.

So I found these online, and I was kind of like, huh, this is like really private stuff. But I found them in tabloids. And, you know, I figured, okay, well, maybe they did something shady to get this information. I don't know. That's not what Damon thinks happened. I assume that somebody paid somebody off. No, Damon thinks the Kardashians leaked them on purpose.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Because I believe, and I couldn't track down exactly when this stuff leaked. that somebody paid somebody off no damon thinks the kardashians leaked them on purpose yes yeah yeah because i believe and i couldn't track down exactly when this stuff leaked but i believe they leaked after the chris humphries thing when maybe people started looking into her first marriage and so anyway here's his side of the story um he thinks that she was the one who leaked those papers to the press. So in 2014, he did an interview with InTouch. He says he never physically abused her. And he was like, look, she never filed a restraining order.

She never filed for a protective order against me, which that's not proof that that's not. Yeah. But because a lot of people don't go to the police with this stuff yeah and okay all super douches are going to be like i never touched her yeah okay let's but there's a i at the same time there's a possibility that he didn't you're right yeah okay i apologize i don't know how. Anyway. The only time she accused me of abuse was after I filed for divorce. She just wanted more money out of me. And by the way, I filed for divorce because she was cheating on me with multiple guys.

Here's what he said happened. Okay. When we were separated, she lured me back into a relationship. She talked me into buying her a boob job and lipo and a bunch of nice clothes. And then I saw a photo of Kim in the tabloids. She was on a date with Jennifer Lopez's ex-husband, Chris Judd. You remember, I mean, kind of a loser. Yeah. And she was wearing the sweet new clothes that I just bought her

and looking all good from that free lipo. Mm-hmm. That was it for Damon. He'd had enough. Looking back, he said Kim was just obsessed with fame. He said, She can't write or sing or dance, so she does harmful things in order to validate herself in the media. That's a fame whore to me.

It's just not cool at all. Gosh, both of those sides are pretty believable. I know, right? That is a conundrum. That's why I was trying to get you to slow down a little bit. I could believe either of those.

Yeah, I don't know. So the truth is probably somewhere in the middle, right? I don't know. I mean, maybe. Because I could see, first of all,

we know I'm very suspicious of the 29-year-old who needs to get married to a 19-year-old. Yeah. And so it does not surprise me at all that that dynamic would be very controlling and unhealthy. And, you know, it wouldn't surprise me if it was abusive. Yeah.

But it also, I totally believe that she would. Yeah, I don't believe that the tales have to be exclusive of each other. No, I don't at all. Yeah. I don't believe that the tales have to be exclusive of each other. I don't at all. Yeah. I mean, he's saying I didn't abuse her, but I'm thinking, you know, you could do all that stuff that she says he did.

And not see any of that as abuse. Really? What? The stuff that she is calling abusive, the waking me up at four o'clock in the morning, the verbal abuse, everything aside from the physical abuse I think that someone could convince

themselves was like a normal you know just kind of behavior in marriage okay you know what yeah

someone who is we got to put on our douche bag hats yeah if you have your douche bag hat on well I'm paying for everything

and she gets to stay at home so when I come home at 430 in the morning I expect a hot meal yes that's what i'm saying i think that those tales could be very close to each other they do not have to be exclusive of each other and saying that she was relentless in her pursuit of fame yeah probably in fact definitely it would shock me i mean you don't fall into fame no not at the level she did so No. So, yeah. Okay. So, obviously, those court documents are very damning.

But when she has actually spoken out in the press about that relationship, she's been very diplomatic. She has basically said, I was really young. I thought I was in love. I now realize that's not what that was. Yeah. So, marriage number one, Denzel. Check. Then she dated Ray J. and they made some home movies she went out with nick lachey then nick cannon who got upset about her

home movies which what an idiot nick how does nick cannon i don't know kim kardashian and mariah carey i don't know but being marriediah Carey seems like his own punishment. Yeah, he is funny. Yeah. He's got charm. Yeah, that is true. He is charming. He's not good looking.

No, he's not. I mean, I hate to say it. Nick Cannon? I hate to shit on him. Nick Cannon's not bad looking. He's not bad looking, but I mean, he's not Mariah Carey or Kim Kardashian level. You'd be right on that. I'm definitely right on that.

He played the nerd in the remake of Can't Buy Me Love. Yeah, so again, another thing I didn't write down. um yeah so again another thing i didn't write down so apparently nick cannon was just so upset because his relationship with kim was going great he thought she was just wonderful he then he found out about the sex tape and i guess she lied to him and said there wasn't a sex tape but then the sex tape came out i'm thinking buddy you should have stuck on that train. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Way to take a principled stance. So then she dated Reggie Bush, then Miles Austin, and then true love.

Chris Humphries. Woo! In October of 2010, Kim met NBA basketball player Chris Humphries. Who spells it K-R-I-S, which is how a girl spells it. I know, it's how her mom spells it. That's just confusing. There can only be one Chris in that family. I mean, why? Who spelled it that way?

Shame on his parents. They seem like nice folks from Minnesota. I do actually think that he kind of got the raw end of the deal here i feel really bad for him do you i do okay yeah we're gonna yeah poor chris humphries i don't i i go back and forth okay here we go so So they meet. Sparks flew. On May 18th, 2011, after six whole months of dating, Kim walked into her bedroom in Beverly Hills and there was Chris Humphries with a K on bended knee. There were candles. The words, will you marry me, were spelled out in rose petals.

Candles, the words, will you marry me, were spelled out in rose petals. And he was holding a 20.5 carat diamond ring. Holy fucking shit. They said 20 carats. How do you even lug that thing around? They brought it to him in a Brinks armored car. I believe it. Because it was worth $2 million. How did he pay for that how much money was

he making in the nba i mean not that much yeah that's i don't think chris humphries ever got a contract that no way would she pay for her own ring they okay the articles i read all made a point to be like which he bought himself which the first time i read that i was like that sounds really like he's a big boy he did it all by himself he definitely could afford it but like it's a huge chunk of change for him not a good financial decision is that what you're saying probably not i'm gonna find out how much money he made in the nba i doubt he got a major contract i read somewhere that he was worth six million he was always a 2016 he made four million in the nba yeah he was worth $6 million. In 2016, he made $4 million in the NBA.

Yeah. He was usually a bench player. You don't have to say it like that. $4 million is nothing to sneeze at. He's spending $2 million of it on an engagement ring? Hey, I think he learned his lesson, don't you think? Wait, hold on. Okay, wait.

Wait, wait, wait. Okay. He made way more than I thought. Okay. Estimated earnings. Okay, wait. Wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay. He made way more than I thought. Okay. Estimated earnings by year for the 2011-2012 season, $8 million. Mm-hmm. 2012-2013 season, $12 million. 13-14 season, $12 million.

And then 15-16, $4 million. It went down for the next couple years to $4 million. So then 15, 16, 4 million. It went down for the next couple years to 4 million. So, okay, he could have afforded it. He definitely afforded it, but it's still a massive chunk of change. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Whew. Anyway. Whew. The other thing is, you can't wear a $2 million ring. No! Everybody's going to be trying to steal your fucking ring. Well, she's had that experience. Well, she has!

You're right. Yeah. Now she doesn't wear jewelry. What are you looking up? Oh, I was looking at Chris Humphrey still, but do you think that she chooses not to wear jewelry? What do you mean? She's completely styled by Kanye. Yeah, he picks the clothes he he picks all of that i totally believe that but i do think that not wearing jewelry was her decision

after being robbed in paris yeah because it's just not worth it oh yeah um are we calling that an abusive relationship because it's very controlling. See, I kind of think they're more in a partnership with it. Okay. You don't think so? You think he's, like, styling her like a Barbie doll? I mean, she kind of, yeah. Yeah, I sure do.

Oh, no, Kim. Kim. Kim, I've got a guest bedroom for you. You're going to love it. Okay. So Kim was over the moon. She said, it was everything I ever dreamt of and more. I think when you know, you know. Except for when you don't.

When you don't know. Almost immediately, they started wedding planning, which was a good thing because their wedding took place three months later. Yeah. Why? That's crazy, right? You gotta get it out during sweep season. Yeah. So these three months are going by and they're planning the world's most perfect wedding when a little man named kanye west got

wind of this engagement do you know what he did no okay so he and kim had been friends for years and when he found out she was engaged he bought his first ever cell phone and he only used it to call her and so he would call her and he would send her pictures of like old. His dick. Well, probably. Lil Yeezus. Lil Ye. So he would send pictures of washed up NBA stars who used to be cool looking

and he'd be like, look, this is what you're getting into. Don't make a mistake here. Oh my gosh. And she was just, that's actually super shitty. Well, she was like, blocking out the haters.

They didn't see them. Blocking out the haters. So she ignored that. She just continued right along. She was in love. She was getting married. In like five minutes. Yeah.

The invitations arrived at guests' houses in these little boxes, which were covered in hundreds of black crystals. Nearly 450 people were invited. Ryan Seacrest. Demiato serena williams avril lavigne ryan seacrest was required to be there he's the executive producer of keeping up with the kardashians he's like do i get paid to be here this wedding was insane they were married on August 20, 2011 at a private estate in Montecito, California. Kim wore a custom Vera Wang gown. Excuse me, she wore three Vera Wang gowns.

They were $20,000 a piece, which I actually thought didn't seem that expensive. That's on the low side. I guess it's all relative. And Chris wore a boring suit. I think I sometimes feel sorry for men with how lame they have to dress. Yeah. And they don't get to have, you know, outfit changes. And I mean.

Or like fun hair. Yeah. Or like a, you know, well, I guess they can do whatever they want. They just get judged for it. Yeah. Meanwhile, we get to be unicorns every day that's right the e-channel broadcast two big wedding specials called kim's fairy tale wedding a kardashian event an estimated 10.5 million people tuned in now let me let me rephrase that probably it was like the same people watching

both specials so i don't know that it's 10.5 individual people but you know you know one person watched it 10.5 million times probably a few the first of the specials was the most watched program in e history as for the wedding it was perfection earth wind and fire performed did they really jesus the wealth wolf gang puck prepared a four course meal wow they had a cake that was eight feet tall and cost twenty thousand,000. Why? Why not, Brandy? How do you even get to the top of an eight foot cake? Bladder. That is dumb and not the least bit practical. And what do you do with all the

leftovers? That's so much cake. Well, there were 450 people. No, 450 people could not consume eight feet of cake. And you know the ladies who were at that event were not eating cake. No. I bet 450 people could eat eight feet of cake. And you know the ladies who were at that event were not eating cake. No. No.

I bet 450 people could eat eight feet of cake. No. No. No. No. No. Yes. They could feed a whole country.

They could feed all of... Because you always want extra. You never want to run out. And you know they were not running out of anything at this wedding. Everyone looked chic in black and white. Were they required to wear black and white? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone looked chic in black and white. Were they required to wear black and white? Yeah! Yeah!

The wedding cost... Six million dollars? Wow. Ten million dollars? Fifteen million dollars. I was going to say, I thought I had heard thirteen million dollars. So the bottom line is, no one can really agree on how much this thing probably cost. Obviously, it was crazy expensive.

But cost is a funny thing. Because who paid for it? Good question. E? Some people think, let me, a lot of people think that Kim and Chris actually profited off the wedding. When you consider all the money they made from selling photos, getting freebies, selling the rights to broadcast their wedding. Apparently, Kim was even paid to have her bachelorette party at this resort. I mean, can you imagine?

You get your nice vacation. Thanks to momager Chris. Well, she is the brains. Oh, man. But hey, so a lot of people really hated on that. I do not. I just feel like, you know what? That's just being business savvy.

You're going to get married anyway. If you don't really care about privacy. Yeah. And you want to make some money. I don't know. Monetize your wedding. Do it. You know, the rest of us dummies lost money on our wedding.

That's right. Although I would never broadcast anything like that. My next wedding is going to be sponsored by the Gaming Historian. You better start saving up more. Everyone gets a t-shirt. Didn't we read a post, maybe it was on reddit about a lady that had a wedding and she was mad that people weren't

like paying for the wedding like giving her cash or something oh I read a post on reddit about this woman who it was like a am I the asshole

post and it was this woman who had sent or who went to a wedding and gave a gift basket of like a bunch of stuff that she thought

the two brides would love like a bottle of wine and a really nice basket. Yes, Norman, some people are gay. I hate to break this to you. We're all thinking it. Oh, and so like she had really

put a lot of thought into this and she when she got the thank you note they were like put in the thank you note that they did not appreciate the basket because the dollar value did not appreciate the basket because the dollar value did not match what they expected

to receive based on what they paid per head to feed people at the wedding see people do that and then they give Kim Kardashian crap for this

yes it's the same thing it is the same thing yeah I have noticed so I think it's a thing where people are throwing these weddings

that they can't afford afford so they think they're going to somehow make up for it in the gifts and you're not the wedding is just a fun thing and let me tell you I'm looking at you darling we had the cheapest wedding of all time and I gotta say

not of all time I think it was pretty damn cheap well you didn't go to the justice of the peace okay yeah it wasn't the cheapest wedding of all time but I'm it was pretty damn cheap. Well, you didn't go to the justice of the peace. Okay, yeah, it wasn't the cheapest wedding of all time, but I'm just saying, like... It was a cheap wedding. Yeah. Like, if you're the type who doesn't want to get up in front of a bunch of people

and doesn't want the E cameras there, just do it, you know, do it small. Do it DP style. Have your dad marry you. Ooh. Don't say that. Getting married DP style. So we did. Her dad appreciated it. No, don't say our wedding was DP style so we did

don't say our wedding was DP style yeah it was though okay I've got to throw up okay so they had the perfect wedding that means your cousin Jenny's wedding was also DP fact

oh no sorry Jenny cousin Jenny's wedding was also DP's. Fact. Oh no! Sorry Jenny. Sorry Jenny. Sorry Rob. They didn't realize what they signed up for. So they had the perfect wedding and they started married life together. And their marriage was pretty typical. They moved in together with Kim's sister courtney

right there with them and a film crew following them all around normal stuff uh they were filming a keeping up with the kardashian spinoff called courtney and kim take new york but here's the thing they'd had this whirlwind romance. Yeah. They were so excited to get married, but they didn't actually know each other very well. Yeah. They hadn't spent that much time face to face with each other. And once they did, Kim thought he was really annoying.

Wait, I want to guess if I can, when you get to, I i would guess if i can remember how many days they were married okay um i'm getting to it right now what do you think 72 days very good very good um so 72 days later on october 31st 2011 just three weeks after E! aired that special, Kim filed for divorce. Uh-oh. She cited irreconcilable differences. She immediately released this, like, super boring statement to the media, and it said, I had hoped this marriage was forever, but sometimes things don't work out as planned. We remain friends and wish each other the best. And I really want to bang Kanye.

Hold on that thought for just a minute. Poor Chris. Poor Chris. He did not get the memo because he wrote his own statement and his statement said, I love my wife and am devastated to learn she filed

for divorce. Oh no! I'm committed to this marriage and everything this covenant represents. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to make it work. Brandi, you are cringing so hard right now. Oh gosh! It's terrible. It's secondhand embarrassment. I'm secondhand embarrassed for him. You are.

You are. I see it in your face. It makes you wonder, how did he find out? Oh no. Like, are i see it in your face oh it makes you wonder how did he find out oh no like did he find out through the media that he was getting divorced poor chris humphries the public along with hollywood insiders were very skeptical everyone smelled a conspiracy they were like these two were never in love this was a publicity stunt they got married to make money the whole thing was faked we were duped second opinion some people who were close to the couple said no they were genuinely in love it just didn't work out they just like rushed into it it was dumb yeah they didn't spend enough time together but they

were actually in love okay what do you think that poor chris was duped you think kim did this because she wanted to not even necessarily for profit because she wanted to have a wedding oh that's interesting that was not part of the multiple choice, but that's actually what I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She wanted to have a wedding and then she was like, oh shit, I have to have a marriage now?

Fuck. That doesn't sound very fun. Yeah. I wanted all the cameras and the eight foot tall cake. Yeah. Which. And I think Chris probably was like totally thought he was like in love and yeah i think that he totally got boned

was that the word you were looking for he got boned so kim just like wasn't into him anymore it just seemed like here okay i'm gonna throw this out there i think she was in love with the idea of being in love yeah yeah i totally believe that yeah the other thing i think is that just because i i had a friend who this happened to she was engaged she'd been with this guy for a long time and she says that she knew before the actual wedding like she had big doubts but it felt like the ball was in motion yeah because her parents had already put down deposits the whole thing so she got married to him they ended up getting divorced

shortly after but i i can't even imagine the pressure when you've got the E! Network. Yeah. You've signed all these contracts. Yeah. Yeah. There are a lot of people who are going to hate this because there are so many Kim Kardashian haters and I'm just not one of them. I don't think that she intentionally did anything to make money. I'm not in that camp.

I think that she probably thought she was in love, but I think she was really in love with the idea of having a wedding. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think she loves fame. Yeah. Yes. So people were all about the money aspect.

I think it was more the fame. The attention aspect. Yeah. Absolutely. Because that was treated like the royal aspect. I think it was more the thing. The attention aspect. Yeah. Because that was treated like the royal wedding. Yeah. I love royal weddings. Me too. What is it about it?

I mean, we're not British, but man. When one of those happens, I'm camped out. Poor Meghan Markle, though. Why poor Meghan Markle? Meghan Markle can't do anything right. The British tabloids tear her apart. She is American trash. Well, her family seems trashy.

I'll say that. They, every now and then one of them will like, I just have to do this interview. And I read this article. This is so, so tangenty. read this article this is so so tangenty but i read this article that was like um comparing the things they say about kate to the things they say about megan and it's like they will call out megan as doing something wrong and then another article it'll be kate did the exact same thing and they're like praising her for it yeah yeah that really sucks does suck is it a because she's american or is it maybe a racial thing because isn't megan i think it's just i think it's i don't think it's racial i think it's

i think it's both it could it could potentially i was trying to give people the benefit of the doubt but i think it's that i don't i don't know anything there's lots of things that are frowned upon about her she's american and it's her second marriage. Ooh. And she was an actress. I remember she's an actress. Yeah. I think for the royalty you're supposed to grow up in a... You're a slutty edge.

Yeah, you're supposed to have lived in a tower your whole life. Only Rapunzel's allowed to get married. So how soon did Kim get with Yeezy? Would you just calm down? What would you like to know? Yeah, just hang on. I'm on the edge of my seat. Oh, are you kind of into this?

I can't remember any words to his songs now. I've been so lonely, girl. I've been so sad. That's the South Park. That's the South Park. Okay, so everyone has an opinion. Some people say this was all fake. People close to her are saying, no, she really wasn't in love.

This was just a bad idea. This story was everywhere. And Kim and Chris Humphrey's 72-day marriage was a joke. But. That was. But it came out super weird. My voice is breaking like I'm a 13-year-old boy. Randy, put that boner away.

Oh, God. Whoa. So this story. Oh, I'm sorry. Iy put that boner away. Oh god. So this story. Oh I'm sorry I already read that part. I got distracted by your boner. How dare you. We need an out of context LGTB podcast Twitter account. Got distracted by your boner.

People are gonna think you're a creep. No one's gonna be like oh that was Kristen making a joke about Brandy having a boner. People are going to think you're a creep. No one's going to be like, oh, that was Kristen making a joke about Brandy having a bus. Creep to Bess's boner. No one's going to give you the benefit of the doubt. So, you know, everyone's laughing, ha ha ha, making fun. But, you know, this divorce would be just as speedy as the marriage itself. They'd signed very detailed prenups.

And those prenups said that what they had going into the marriage itself. They'd signed very detailed prenups, and those prenups said that what they had going into the marriage, they'd get to keep. And since the marriage had lasted two and a half seconds, it would be really easy to dissolve. Do you remember what happened next? Yeah. See, I didn't remember this.

Yeah, it was not speedy at all. Uh, no. Slowest divorce in history. It was a mess. It was a mess. It was a mess. On December 1st, a little over a month after Kim filed for divorce, Chris Humphries filed his own legal documents. He did not want a divorce.

He wanted an annulment on the grounds that their marriage had been an act of fraud. Wow. He said that Kim had married him, you know, basically to boost her reality TV ratings and that he had been duped. And according to TMZ, he wanted $7 million. Holy shit. Yeah. I didn't remember that.

That seems a little steep, right? I mean, although he really got the shit into the stick. Two wealthy people, why not? Seven million's like nothing. To Kim Kardashian, probably. At this time, I think it was. Months went by. That spring, a rumor circulated that Kim was dating some new guy.

Kanye West. Just this unknown rapper named Kanye West. Love Kanye. But this divorce, annulment, fraud case was not going anywhere. In court, Kim's attorney accused Chris Humphreys of purposely stalling the legal proceedings. A few months later, they were back at it in court again. This time, Chris's lawyers were like, I don't want to use the word uncooperative, but they are not making the process easier. Which is like, do you think uncooperative is a four-letter word?

Right. It's just the way that's said. So now it's November 28th, 2012. It's been more than a year since Kim filed for divorce, and this shit is not wrapping up. Chris's lawyers were like, we want an annulment, and P.S., we can't wait for this to go to trial. We don't care.

We're just sitting. We're fine. It's going to be epic. And Kim's lawyer was like, that's never going to happen. And how dare you? You're basically handcuffing Kim Kardashian to Mr. Humphreys. Now it's December 30th, 2012. We're at a Kanye West concert.

And that's when he announces that Kim is pregnant. and that's when he announces that kim is pregnant so it was good news but it was also really scary news because she was still technically married to chris humphries okay i'm gonna say a little bit and then i want to discuss so the articles i read all said this is scary because in the eyes of the law that child which is clearly kim and kan's, would be Chris Humphries. And Chris would be the presumed father of that child. So her legal team was like, look, we need to wrap this thing up before you give birth. Yeah.

But would they? I mean, I understand that you would be the presumed father, but surely. Yeah, I mean, it just creates more legal steps because then there would have to be a paternity case involved just because a marriage exists. It's just like the eyes of the law. It's not. Yeah. So some of these articles. It creates a whole nother step in the legal process where paternity case would have to come in.

OK, OK. Some of these articles I read were, you know, I think they were just trying to make it as sensational as possible. Like, well, Chris could take that child. And it's like, give me a fucking break. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, they did want to wrap this up. At this point, Kim's attorney was like, all right.

Well, and I remember it being like a really big deal to kim to have it wrapped up before yeah yes yeah we are getting to that okay kim's attorney was like all right time for a new tactic we want this trial to happen we are super pumped about a trial let's have it right fucking now or let's broadcast it on e! Ryan Seacrest, come on in! Or, or, hear me out. Either we have the trial, or we just end the marriage. How about that? How about that?

Either way, let us know. In the court documents, Kim basically said what you just said, which is like, I'm having this baby. I don't want to be married to Chris Humphphries when i have this baby well that pissed off chris humphries his lawyers were like first of all we're not ready to go to trial and congrats on the pregnancy but that's not a reason to speed up this case okay holy shit i'm gonna read to you verbim. I think this is the douchiest thing ever.

What is really going on here is that an urgency in the form of an apparently unplanned pregnancy, something the respondent had nothing to do with, is perceived by plaintiff as an opportunity to gain a litigation advantage by trying to force this court to prematurely set this matter for trial. That's so dumb. Yeah, that's... Yeah, I just find that obnoxious. Yeah, it is obnoxious. Meanwhile, Chris's legal team was working on their fraud case,

and a big part of it was the show, Courtney and Kim Take New York, which you guys might be thinking, but that's a documentary. That's a reality show. How could there be fraud involved in a reality show? I know that's what you're thinking, Brandi. I'm not thinking that at all.

I need you to brace yourself for some real bad news. That was on PBS, right? I believe Ken Burns was involved. Ken Burns presents Courtney and Ken take Manhattan. Can you imagine? I'd watch it. It'd be PBS's most watched

special. So guys, I hate to say it. You hate to say it, folks. I hate to say it. You hate to say it, folks. I hate to say it. Hate to tell it. But Chris alleged that some of that show was fake. The horror!

There's nothing fake about Kim Kardashian. Did you see the Emmys thing that just happened oh yeah i did oh that was that was rough oh it was real rough tell it tell it to the people so um kendall jenner and kim kardashian presented at the emmys just a few days ago as of this recording time and they were supposed to be presenting i can't remember what they're presenting i can't either but they were talking about how our family knows above anyone else about unscripted um being caught it's all about real people and blah blah they got laughed at it now that means now do you think so obviously they were reading from teleprompters for that. I think the writers set them up for that. I do too.

Okay. I do too. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if they feel like they were set up. Probably. Yeah. What are you sniffing?

I'm smelling a lawsuit. Chris says that the show was faked and that it had been scripted and reshot to make him look bad. So his legal team deposed some of the show's production crew. And one of the people they deposed was a producer named Russell J. And in that deposition, Russell had to admit that, yes, at least two scenes in the show in which Chris had been seen as, like, the bad guy had actually been either, like, scripted or heavily edited or just completely reshot. Yeah. So let's go through.

Shocking. Brandi, just calm down. So let's go through. Shocking. Brandy, just calm down. For starters, you know, the big surprise proposal with the rose petals and all that. Not actually a surprise. Kim had them shoot it twice because she didn't like how she reacted the first time.

Not the least bit surprising. No, no. In another scene, Kim is talking to her mom,ris jenner also with a k whatever and it's meant to look as if chris as if kim and chris are still married and she has gone to confide to her mom about how things aren't going great but in reality that scene was shot after kim had filed for divorce so it was just something like they had to throw a filler scene that they needed to yeah well because otherwise it would be like things are going great oh wait i want a divorce yeah yeah yeah did fill in the narrative yes in one episode kim gets really upset because chris threw a party in their hotel room while she was out of town didn't tell her but it wasn't true she knew all about it she was actually in the hotel that night

and yeah she knew all about it so overall this was a really big victory for Chris word of the deposition leaked um and we all learned that we had been duped but you know kim had money like way more money than chris humphries so her legal team just buried them in paperwork they wrote a 217 page response to chris's latest filing and they were like quit holding Kim Kardashian and this court of law hostage with your incompetence it isn't cute you said you wanted this trial here it is if you're not ready then that just means you didn't do your homework wow and that's not a direct quote but you know you get the vibe yeah then things got real bad on Valentine's Day of 2013, just four days after Chris Humphrey's attorney received this monstrous dissertation

from the Kardashian lawyers, Chris's lawyer was like, hey, so I'd like to be removed from this case. I have irreconcilable differences with my client and it's just not working. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow.

So the next day the judge was like, all right, we're headed to trial. See you May 6th. Until this point, it had just been the attorneys duking this whole thing out. But in April, Kim and Chris were supposed to meet face to face for a mandatory divorce settlement conference. So Kim showed up. And he didn't. Wow. were supposed to meet face-to-face for a mandatory divorce settlement conference yeah so kim showed up and he didn't wow the judge was pissed i bet the judge was like all right now i'm setting up a sanction hearing and at that point we'll figure out how much we want to fine you for not showing up the next week the attorneys were back in court. They announced that they had reached a settlement.

Both sides agreed not to mess with an annulment. They wanted a simple divorce. Great. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy. Apparently not. Not too much. The court had to sign off on that judgment the next month. But guess who didn't show up to the hearing?

Chris didn't show up again? He didn't show up again. But it didn't matter. The marriage was over. This was a gigantic legal victory for Kim Kardashian. Chris didn't get the $7 million he wanted. He didn't get an annulment. You know, none of that fraud stuff.

As a final parting gift, Kim asked the judge not to penalize chris for skipping out on their mandatory meeting wow so their marriage may have only lasted 72 days but their divorce lasted two years holy shit yeah she i remember when she went to her final hearing, she was super pregnant. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, she was ready to pop. Yeah. So Chris Humphries has since retired from the NBA. He now owns a shit ton of Five Guys restaurants in the Midwest and some other chain that I'd never heard of.

And in March of this year, he wrote an essay about his experience of working so hard to get into the NBA, then marrying Kim Kardashian and being totally unprepared for what happened. It's actually a really good essay, and I'm going to read a chunk of it now. Is it from the Players Tribune? Yes. Have you read it? Oh, I love that site. Oh, okay. It's really good.

It's a great site. Look, I should have known what I was getting into. I was definitely naive about how much my life was going to change. But the one thing that really bothers me is whenever people say that my marriage was fake. There's definitely a lot about that world that is not entirely real, but our actual relationship was 100% real. When it was clear that it wasn't working, what can I say? It sucked. It's never easy to go through the embarrassment of something like that, with your friends, with your family,

but when it plays out so publicly in front of the world, it's a whole nother level. It was brutal. I didn't know how to handle it, because I never thought I was going to be famous in that way. I remember having this moment when I was getting booed so hard in Philly, and I thought to myself, why exactly are they

booing me though is it just because I'm that guy from TV do they think I was trying to be famous is it because they think I disrespected the game of basketball the last one killed me because all I've ever wanted to be known for was basketball oh that makes me really sad. I know. See, I, okay, so, I was totally not on his side reading through, you know, the two years, but reading that, I did feel bad for him.

Yeah. It would just be so humiliating. Oh, yeah. I remember, I remember people would make fun of him during games. Oh, yeah. Because that's like all he's known for now.

Well, and teams were like hesitant to sign him because of the drama that came with it exactly because and he was he's a good player yeah well i what the fuck do i know he's my favorite player go sports no but he talked about how he had really bad anxiety he was in a really dark place and yeah you would yeah you would be that would be horrible that i mean you who could have predicted that that's what he was signing up for as someone who went through a divorce not at all publicly like that's i felt all of those things like, yeah, you do. You feel shame and anxiety and like you've disappointed everyone. And I didn't have to go through it publicly.

Like, so I can't even imagine going through that, like with somebody who at the time was like one of the most famous people. Yeah. In the United States. Yeah. Yeah. That would be horrible. In the United States. Yeah.

Yeah. That would be horrible. I actually think it takes courage to end a marriage that early. Yeah. Because I think the natural instinct would be to try to stick it out. Yeah. And you'd just be miserable for years. Yeah. To come out that early and admit this was a mistake.

It does take courage, I think. Yeah. Kim has also talked about their marriage and I'm not going to read any essay from her, but it was, what she has said

was basically she turned 30 and she started to freak out because she was getting older. Her friends were all getting married. They were all having babies and she was behind.

And she didn't say this but i'm i imagine so much of of her fame is related to looks and so there might be this fear of like oh my gosh i need to lock something down well yeah i mean there's an expiration date on that yeah yeah well it depends on what kind of surgery well that's true she basically wanted to get married and jumped in to the wrong thing but let's end on a high note let's two months later kim gave birth to her daughter north and in october of that year kanye west proposed to kim kardashian on her 33rd birthday they got married in the spring of 2014 in italy and their wedding was not broadcast on the e-network yeah and that's the story of kim kardashian's two divorces wow very good that was

fun i've got a fun little nugget oh no what you got uh in i think this was 2012 kanye released an album called Good Music. Good Music Presents Cruel Summer or something. It was like a compilation of a bunch of artists that Kanye works with. And he has a line in one of his songs. Oh, you love that line. He says, I'll admit I fell in love with Kim around the same time she fell in love with him. Well, that's

cool, baby girl. Do your thing. Lucky I ain't have Jay drop him from the team. Jay-Z was part owner of the Brooklyn Nets who Chris Humphries played for. That is a good nugget.

Nice little nugget for you. I thought you were going to tell another Kanye lyric. What's that? What's that? It's something about... It's about Kim got famous from her home movies. What is that line?

What is that? Yeah, it's pretty good. Oh. yeah it's pretty good oh my girl a superstar all from all from her home movie I like that yeah that's from the song it's from that same album

oh yeah click my girl a superstar but you're not a fan of the Kanye Kim marriage you think that's yeah I don't like that he treats her Click. All right. My girl is superstar. But you're not a fan of the Kanye-Kim marriage? You think that's... Uh-oh. Yeah, I don't like that he treats her like a doll. Kanye has slowly become pretty unstable.

Well, yeah. He's always kind of had an ego. Well, kind of. Just a smidge. He's always had a huge ego. I tell you what he's he's still like one of my favorite lyricists uh-huh in hip-hop he just does such clever yeah he's good he's good at what he does but uh man he says some crazy stuff yeah he does um you

guys ready for questions yeah yeah bring them on we've got some good ones this week norman where are you getting these questions from uh this is from the lgtc discord which you can join by signing up for the patreon at the seven dollar tier and the five dollar tier yeah oh that's right five dollar or seven dollar tier yeah we prefer the seven dollar yeah okay this is from lily what's the most exotic meal you've ever had this is a good one oh i can say mine really ostrich i've had shark okay when i was a kid what'd you think of it i think it tastes like fish okay um i remember so i was in south africa I actually liked it until the person next to me was talking about how popular it is to eat ostrich there. And he was talking about how it's a very lean meat.

And then he compared it to the leanness of eating a human. And I was already kind of like, I'm eating ostrich, this is different. And once he said that, I was like, and we're done. Man, you throw some hot sauce on that, I bet that ostrich is good. Yeah, I think shark, if I remember right, has more of a steak-y texture, but tastes like fish.

Very similar to whale, which was my most exotic meal. Norway. In Norwayway i ate whale it looks like steak lily's from norway lily oh there you go uh looks like steak texture of steak yeah tastes like steak yeah smells like fish smells like fish it's a very strange experience yeah let's see marisak wants to know do you ever get paranoia from reading about all of these scary crime cases yeah i love let's go to court but it's been causing me to have trouble sleeping at night oh no 100 all the time i'm constantly sure i actually have a crazy story about this exact thing. Okay. Okay. So this has been a few weeks ago. I woke up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom.

And when I came out of the bathroom, just kind of instinctually, I looked over at my security system panel by my front door and saw that my alarm panel was disarmed. It was not set. And I very clearly had remembered setting it before I went to bed. And so I went and I got back in bed and I pulled my phone up because I have like an app on my phone for my security system where I can see like all of the activity on it. Yeah. And sure enough enough it had been disarmed like 30 minutes before i got up to go to the bathroom holy shit and so i was like holy fucking shit there's somebody in my house and so i'm like panicking i get up i turn every light on in my house i go through the whole house there's nobody there and so i'm like i don't i i don't know what this is like in my app show that had been disarmed at the panel using the master code, which is my code. And so I was like, I don't.

This is so weird. Was David with you? Yeah, David was there. And so like and he hadn't he hadn't turned it off or anything. I'm like, OK, I don't know. This must be a glitch in the system or something. And so I calm myself down. I check the whole house.

I check behind the shower curtains and every closet. There's nobody in my house. And so I go back to bed and I'm laying there. And all of a sudden, I think of this weird thing that happened right before I had gone to bed. I, again, was in the bathroom. I swear I don't go to the bathroom near as much as Kristen does. I was in the bathroom and the doorbell rang. It was like 10 o'clock at night. The doorbell rang and then immediately following the doorbell, there were two knocks at the door, which in my experience

means that a police officer's at the door. Like that's like a standard, I swear, police officer knock. And so I was like, oh my gosh, the police are at my door and so like I have a security doorbell I have like the doorbell camera I didn't even check it I just opened the door because I was like there's a police officer at my door and sure enough there was a police officer at my door and so it's a female officer and she's like hey do you have dogs and I said yeah I have two dogs and she said um are your dogs home? Are they inside? I was like, yeah, they're in their kennels, like where I'm getting ready to go to bed. And she's like, okay. And she's like, well, we found two dogs at the park. There's a park

near my house. And she's like, we found two dogs at the park. I'm just trying to figure out, you know, where they live. And I was like, okay. And she's like, well, what kind of dogs do you have? And I told her what kind of dogs I have. And she's like, oh, well, these are two pit bulls. Do you know any, any, any neighbors that have pit bulls? And I was like, well, there's one neighbor, like kind of down at the end of the street and then catty corner that I believe has a pit bull. I don't know that they have more than one pit bull. And so she was like, okay, which house? And so I walked to the end of my driveway with this police officer and pointed the house out to her. Yeah. Didn't think anything of it. She thanked me. I went back in. So now,

fast forward, it's three o'clock in the morning. My alarm has been disabled. I'm now laying in bed and I'm thinking about that. And I'm like, I didn't ask her to show me anything to show that she was actually a police officer. I just assumed that she was a police officer because she had like a vest on. Right. And I'm like, did I even see her police cruiser? I can't even remember. And I walked out of my house with her to the end of my driveway.

So her partner could go inside. Go into the house. He's already in the house. That didn't happen. And there was nobody in my house that didn't happen and there was nobody in my house and I'm sure she was an actual police officer

but these are the things that like my mind thought at three o'clock in the morning and David was there right yes what do you mean like hey what's this guy

doing in our house probably but yeah but I'm like these are the things that I had three o'clock in the morning and I'm thinking

and I can only assume that I'm thinking these things because we research these terrible cases all the time. Yeah. Yeah.

So to answer your question. Yeah, the answer is yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm bad about watching like Unsolved Mysteries. Oh, my gosh. Before bed. I love Unsolved Mysteries. So do I.

But man, my anxiety like flares when I watch that show. Some of the stuff on there. We watched some last night actually. I tried to stop him. Kay Burns, if you had a time machine, would you rather have one that only goes backwards or only goes forwards? I'd probably do backwards.

I'd do backwards too. I think the future freaks me out. I'd go backwards. I think the future The future freaks me out Yeah I'd go backwards Yeah cause what if Like the planet's shot And then you like Shoot yourself into the future

And then you burn into a crisp Yeah Yeah Yeah I'm going backwards Like you enter a trap door In a video game Into a lava pit

Yes Okay No I guess climate change Is real Yeah You fast forward to this I guess climate change Is real. You fast forward to this. I guess climate change is real.

All those scientists were right. Greta warned us. Greta Thunberg warned us. I get all my science lessons from the GOP, so that would be very surprising. Jen Bett wants to know, what is your go-to movie that you can watch over and over? And Bet wants to know, what is your go-to movie that you can watch over and over? Okay, I have one that I'll watch any time it's on, and it's on TV pretty frequently. Okay.

Fifth Element. I will watch it every single time it's on. That is such a good movie. I love the Fifth Element. Kristen, seen Fifth Element? Is that the one with the red hair? Yes. Yeah, I saw it once.

It's really orange hair, but okay. Kristen does not like sci-fi no i hate sci-fi that opera opera scene oh oh so good and chris tucker then i know you know what i do all the time because of that movie i my dogs my dogs are my face i go come in come in bet your dogs hate that movie too they love it actually multi-pass i do have a go-to movie um may i name a couple yeah i guess steel magnolias i love steel magnolias a League of Their Own. Is it just because it's like looking at yourself in the mirror? That's right. I look so much like Tom Hanks. No, but you guys, Kristen looks so much like Geena Davis in that movie. Kristen and I bonded over A League of Their Own.

How? Well, I was like stalking her on Facebook. First time you banged, it was on in the background? Ew. You got it. No. I was stalking her on Facebook, and I noticed in her about section, favorite movie, League of Their Own. So I messaged her, and I was like, oh my God, you love a League of Their Own? I think I like you now.

That's exactly what you said. I was waiting. I was like, is he going to remember exactly what he said? Oh my God. Oh. That's a top five movie for me. I love it. I do too.

It's an excellent movie. Thank you. I remember when I starred in it. What was it like? Really had to carry that film. Tom Hanks was great in that movie. He was great in that movie. Gina Davis, Bill Pullman, Tank Girl.

Rosie O'Donnell. Rosie O'Donnell. Rosie O'Donnell, Madonna. Yeah. Freaking John. Oh, yeah. I love it. I love this. Give the wife the pickle tickle.

I'm such an asshole. How about Marla Hooch? Poor Marla Hooch. Let's see. Oh, question for all three of you. I'm getting involved. What is the worst job you've ever worked? Oh, God. Hmm.

Hmm. Hmm. Kristen? I don't, oh, let me think. I haven't worked that many jobs, so. Which one was the worst? I would say my, like, the pizza place that I worked at, just because of how it ended. The guy yelling at you?

The guy yelled at me in front of all the customers. That's right. Like, quit. Do you want to tell that story? And your dad called? My dad called and yelled at that manager. Yeah, it was the stupidest thing. Like, this manager was, like, on a power trip. do you want to tell that story your dad called and my dad called and yelled at that manager yeah it was it was the stupidest thing like this manager was like on a power trip i was 15 years old worked

at this pizza place i was like the counter girl and this couple had placed a to-go order and then when they got to the restaurant to pick it up they decided they wanted to eat there and so like the waitress went over took their drink orders and then was like hey they had they called in an order they want to um have it to go well it had already been boxed and so i got the box down because it was my job to pull to-go orders i got the box down i'm getting ready to put it on a tray for them and the manager comes over and he's like what are you doing that's in a box and i was like yeah but the people just got here and they want to eat it here he's like no it's a to-go order and i was like yeah dumb dumb yeah and so I'm like trying to explain to him he's like once an

order goes into a box doesn't come out of box and he's like yelling at me and I'm like no they're here and like the waitress comes over to explain to him and I'm like yeah they're they they're here they came up and said that they were going to eat and he's like I've had enough of you and he like told me to shut up and then he went and talked to the like and then the their waitress was standing there and she's like i i just told her to take this out of the box and i was so upset because he yelled at me like right at the very front by the counter where people were all of like my co-workers were yeah i like almost cried i didn't i made it through the rest of my shift But the second I got in my car that night to drive home,

like 15 year old me, I just start crying and I get home and I'm so mad that he yelled at me and embarrassed me when like, I didn't do anything wrong. Yeah. I get home. My dad's like, what's wrong?

And I tell him everything. He called that manager and he cussed that manager out and told him never to talk to his daughter like that again. And then I never worked there again. And my dad boycotted that place for years because of it. Shout out, Franny's the best. Shout out to my dad. What an asshole.

Seriously. And what exactly did he think you were doing? Right. I have no idea what he thought I was doing. You think I was trying to steal that pizza? Kristen, worst job you've ever had. I'm debating what to say right now. Because I think, honestly, the worst job I've ever had was the one I had most recently.

Which I'm not going to. Should I say this? Don't. Go ahead, whatever. Well, yeah. It was not, I mean, it was a prestigious job. And the pay was great and everything. But it was just like not my style at all.

Yeah. Like I had a cubicle nowhere near a window. Right. And just the environment was very like at the end of each day we had to send out an email to our team explaining explaining everything we'd accomplished that a list and then i mean there's just then we had to do the same thing at the end of the week for the week what we'd gotten done. There were just a lot of different systems you had to submit to to prove that you had worked. And I just felt like, my God, if I didn't have to do all this other stuff, I could get some work done.

I could get a lot more work done. It was also, and this is not the job's fault, it was also a nine to five cubicle job, which I should have never signed up for in my life. That is just not me. Torture. It would be torture. Yeah. Complete torture. Yeah.

I'm also kind of an ass. And I think that I think I don't do well having a boss. Yeah. So I can work for certain kind of bosses. Like, I would say my least favorite like period at a job was when I left, like right before I left my corporate job, because I worked for a manager who believed every, I worked for a regional manager who believed that every district manager should manage their people exactly the same. Well, people are different. You can't manage every person exactly the same and so I had had a lot of success with my management style and he wouldn't let me manage the way that I managed and he micromanaged me and it was terrible I fucking hated my life

during that time like yeah the worst period and I love I had loved my job prior to that and so I was like fuck this and also at the same time like I have that was when I first was diagnosed with Graves disease and I was super, super sick. And like, he was not understanding of that at all. And so I ended up, I was just, I left the job. Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, which was really a shame because I had loved that company so much and I had

loved that job. And you'd done really well. Yeah. I had been super successful. Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny that you and I have kind of the same triggers for a bad work environment. Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny that you and I have kind of the same triggers for a bad work environment. Yeah. Yeah. Being micromanaged, I can tolerate so much. Oh,

so can I. But being treated as if I'm not going to come and do the work is so insulting to me. And I remember thinking, OK, OK, they're going to figure out that I'm here to do the work, that I meet my deadlines, that I'm not trying to pull anything over. And I really thought after a few months, things are going to change. No, they did not. But I'm very grateful to that job because that job allowed like I was making enough money at that point that then you could quit your job and pursue gaming a story in full time. And then, you know, I full-time and then you know i could eventually quit yep and join you so it was a really important job but yeah not my style yeah oh not my style

what was your worst you know it's it's a tough choice my last job uh where i quit to work on gaming historian Historic. I was overworked. Yeah. I was on call on weekends. Ugh. Yeah. But I will say, like, the job was kind of fulfilling because you were helping people.

Yeah, it was an important job. It was an important job, and I met a lot of good friends there. Yeah. And I had great benefits, so I can't complain too much. So I think the worst job i ever had was gamestop yeah which is crazy because you think i would love working at a video game store i think that would be terrible yeah that company is just awful yeah it was an awful company yeah what did you this just in the gaming historian hates gamestop

i i yeah it's just a terrible company to work for. Well, tell us about it. And now they're, like, going out of business. Oh, yeah. They're, like, barely afloat right now. Yeah. Because normally... I think it's because normally...

Okay. They piss the gaming hysteria off. The pay was... Atrocious. Atrocious. I was a key holder, by the way. And I was barely over minimum wage. Yeah, of course, yeah.

No health benefits whatsoever you had to push magazine subscriptions on customers which is yeah not my thing you have to push pre-orders on customers and you're judged on those numbers if you don't get them then you're gonna lose hours yeah which by the way i one of my friends got a job there same time i did we started together i was getting the numbers on pre-orders and magazine subscriptions he wasn't they didn't fire him they just didn't give him hours yeah they forced him to quit to quit yeah super that's a super shady corporate strategy yeah um i got in trouble one time for eating a yogurt in front of a customer. I took a bite of yogurt. No!

And some customer was very offended. Was so offended. Norm, what are you eating? Were you at the register eating yogurt? Yes. No! There was no one at the register. I was hungry.

I stopped and took a bite of yogurt. What's the problem? I mean, that I stopped and took a bite of yogurt. What's the problem? I mean, that's not great. It's not great. For someone to call the regional manager. I mean, it's just weird that the person called to complain. That's insane. But yeah, I have been in situations. Like one time I was at the grocery store

and the lady ringing me up was eating a candy bar as she rang me up. Yeah, that's weird. And I thought it was weird, but I would never call. No, exactly. If I was at GameStop and the dork behind the counter was eating a yogurt, I'd be like, well, that's fucking weird. But I'd never call corporate and complain about it.

Do you mean hottie behind the counter? Have you seen this, man? Fix that in post. Well, I'm just saying, you look like a 12-year boy then so yeah we're like how is this getting working how's this child labor i think they were probably calling over child labor concern got turned into a complaint about yogurt yeah this growing boy was just trying to eat his yogurt child labor um gosh there's like there was one time there was like a tropical storm because this was eastern north carolina and so our store was like flooding and so we called corporate and we're like our store

is flooding uh should we open and they're like yes you are to open wow and we're like what do we do there's like water pouring in the store and they said go to lowe's and buy sandbags that's so one of us had to go buy sandbags. That's insane. And pile them in the front of the store. My gosh. They also did shady stuff like, as an employee, I could check out video games,

like rent them, and you could rent brand new games. So I could bring a brand new game home, play it, bring it back to GameStop, and they would still sell it as a new game. Shady. Shady business practices. Yeah. They would sell new games. and they would still sell it as a new game. Shady. Shady business practices.

Yeah. They would sell new games. Would they re-shrink wrap it? No. Oh. They would take brand new games, rip off the shrink wrap, and put the case on the shelf.

Uh-huh. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And sell it as new. And it's like, once the shrink wrap's gone, it's not new anymore. It's not new anymore. Yeah. Stuff like that.

They didn't give you anything for trade-ins they charged a ton for used games prevention that's how they get away with that okay prevent theft they shot themselves in the foot like all that's crap people complained for years about all this crap gamestop was doing they were just like we don't care and now the video game industry is moving away from physical media yeah people are really into retro games now gamestop got rid of all their retro stock they're trying to bring it back but it's not i don't think it's working out too well so now they're trying to get into like iphones and like oh gosh nerd gear like beanies and plushies and it's like they barely have games anymore yeah we're so where where's your go-to spot for retro games

for retro games yeah honestly uh video game conventions that i go to i mean you can buy anything there's vendors yeah a lot of times it's like collectors and they're just trying to unload their stuff but honestly ebay i mean you mean, you're paying full price for it, but you can find any retro game you want on eBay. But the good thing about a convention is Norman can just walk up to somebody and be like, do you know who I am? Do you know who I am?

Oh yeah, I do that power move. Give me that game. You guys know me. I do that power move all the time. Yeah, he's the bully of the gaming convention circuit. I love telling people that I'm the gaming historian. You know me. So you, Norm. What would we have to pay you

for one entire convention, say a three-day convention, for you to be like go up to people like as you probably know, I'm the gaming historian. Like that's how you have to introduce yourself. You have to have that energy. I'm sure you already know I'm the gaming historian.

Can I get some water over here? I am the gaming historian. I'm getting nervous just thinking about it. I just don't know, honey, that would be. The look on your face right now. Yeah, you're so uncomfortable. Norman, you don't have to do that. I will never do that.

I promise you. Hey, do you't have to do that. I will never do that. I promise you. Hey, do you want to deliver our listener homework? Okay, listener homework. Get on Patreon and vote on the next topic. That's right. You are voting between old-timey cases or ongoing cases.

I like that topic. I think that's going to be good. See, I had some other ideas, but you shot them down. The first one I fell asleep in the middle of, Kristen. What was the first one? I can't even remember. I was so bored by it. Let me answer.

YouTubers versus reality stars? Yeah, okay, okay. No, you guys. YouTube lawsuits versus reality TV lawsuits? Oh, my God. It's so good. Okay, don't get your mucus all. All right, you ready ready for what supreme court induction how do you get inducted into the supreme court i don't have my my thing up oh are you trying to get me to stall i gotta get to my

google drive you see good people it's just $7 a month to sign up. How long do I have to milk this? I'm still not there. For this week, we are reading your name and your least favorite word. We'd love to have you at the Supreme Court. Why are you talking like that? Because I'm stretching out my words. I am amazed at how long it takes this woman to pull up her Google Drive.

I am! Oh, wow! This week, what I would like everybody to do to prepare for the Supreme Court inductions is to stand and then immediately sit back down. Allie Yackel. Moist. Angela Falamer Cock Oh my

Joey Henry Groi I've sent you the theme Colin Fandom Alyssa Kaufman Panties Oh I should have moved those around so they were all together.

Ainsley Fidun. Chunky. I like doing chunky, too. Chunky? Chunky! Yeah. Amy Whaley. Like?

Chrissy Harris. Mucus. Thank you, Chrissy. I stand in solidarity with you. Welcome to the Supreme Court. Oh my gosh, guys. Thank you so much for all of your support. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please subscribe to the podcast. Find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, YouTube, Patreon, all those places.

Head on over to our Patreon if you've not already signed up. Get on there. Sign up and vote on a future episode topic. It's homework. You have to do it. That's the listener homework. Norm assigned it. It's not optional.

It's mandatory. Once you've done all of that please subscribe I already said subscribe Kristen oh sorry head on over to iTunes leave us a rating leave us a review and then

be sure to be sure be sure to be sure be sure to join us next week when we'll be

asked questions on two whole new twerpics twerpics podcast adjoined adjo. Podcast adjoined. Adjoined. Podcast adjoined.

And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from Us Weekly, Life and Style Magazine, People Magazine, TMZ, The Daily Mail, and BuzzFeed. And I got my info... I know. And I got my info from an excellent article for the William...

No! No! And I got my info for an... Fuck beans! I'm leaving all of a sudden. And I got my info from an excellent article for the Williamette Week by Beth Slavik, several articles for the Oregonian, as well as an episode of I Survived, and an episode of Who the Bleep Did I Marry?

Well said. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are of course ours. I don't know how you could find errors in this thing. But please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.