Lex Fridman Podcast - #228 – RZA: Wu-Tang Clan, Kung Fu, Chess, God, Life, and Death

Episode Date: October 6, 2021

RZA is a rapper, record producer, filmmaker, actor, writer, philosopher, and the mastermind of the legendary hip hop group Wu-Tang Clan. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors: - ROKA: https://roka.com/ and use code LEX to get 20% off your first order - Athletic Greens: https://athleticgreens.com/lex and use code LEX to get 1 month of fish oil - SimpliSafe: https://simplisafe.com/lex and use code LEX to get a free security camera - Eight Sleep: https://www.eightsleep.com/lex and use code LEX to get special savings - BetterHelp: https://betterhelp.com/lex to get 10% off EPISODE LINKS: RZA's Twitter: https://twitter.com/RZA RZA's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rza Wu-Tang Clan Website: https://wutangclan.net PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ YouTube Full Episodes: https://youtube.com/lexfridman YouTube Clips: https://youtube.com/lexclips SUPPORT & CONNECT: - Check out the sponsors above, it's the best way to support this podcast - Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman - Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lexfridman - Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman OUTLINE: Here's the timestamps for the episode. On some podcast players you should be able to click the timestamp to jump to that time. (00:00) - Introduction (06:57) - Life and death (14:16) - Quincy Jones (19:39) - Quentin Tarantino (23:05) - Kung Fu (28:01) - Biggie (29:48) - Tupac (32:45) - Nas (35:48) - Favorite verse (39:46) - Who is God? (44:56) - Wu-Tang Clan (48:49) - Bruce Lee (55:40) - Godfather (1:01:36) - Veganism (1:06:27) - AI (1:10:41) - Chess (1:14:00) - American Gangster (1:19:55) - Creativity (1:26:24) - Advice for young people (1:29:47) - Meaning of life

The following is a conversation with Rizza. The rapper, record producer, filmmaker, actor, writer, philosopher, kung fu scholar, and the mastermind of the legendary hip-hop group Wu Teng Clan. And now a quick few seconds summary of the sponsors. Check them out in the description. It's the best way to support this podcast. First is Roca, my favorite sung glasses

and prescription glasses. Second is Athletic Greens, the all-in-one nutrition drink I drink twice a day. Third is simply safe, the home security company I use. Fourth is 8th sleep, a self-calling mattress cover I sleep on. And fifth is BetterHelp, an online therapy service. So the choice is, stylish sunglasses, nutritional health, home alone style security, sweet dreams, or psychological fortitude. Choose wise than my friends. And now, onto the full ad reads. There's always no ads in the middle. I try to make this interesting, but if you skip them, please still check out the sponsors. I enjoy that stuff. Maybe you will too.

This show is brought to you by Roka, the makers of glasses and sunglasses that I love wearing for their design, feel and innovation and material optics and grip. Roka was started by two all-American swimmers from Stanford, and it was born out of an obsession with performance. I actually got a chance to hang out with one of the founders and the current CEO, Rob. He's an amazing guy. They have an amazing facility here in Austin. I really like the engineering aspects of the work they're doing. We might actually do a video or we get some custom prescription glasses for me.

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That's 8sleep.com slash lux. This episode is also brought to you by BetterHelp, spelled H-E-L-P-H-H-L. They figure out what you need and match it with a license professional therapist in under 48 hours. For some reason, as I'm saying this, the movie Good Will Hunting popped into my head, and that's probably my favorite Robert Williams performance where he is a therapist to will, the mathematician. I think that coupling of youthful brilliance and sort of melancholy wisdom that comes with age is just beautifully done in that film. And I think I seek that kind of thing from conversation, from mentorship, that kind of

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That's betterhelp.com slash flex. Remember, it's not your fault. It's not your fault. If you don't know what I'm talking about, it's a line from the movie. This is the Lex Freedom Podcast, and here is my conversation with Rizza. In the Tau of Wu, you write, when my mother left the physical world, I lost one of my main links to the universe.

They say that you have an imbical cord and an athera cord, which is the invisible cord that attaches you to your soul, your mother's soul and all other souls. When one passes away, you really lose something. It's physical and mental. It's real. Part of you dies. What have you learned about life from your mother? And that long life itself from my mother, you know, being one of eleven children and seeing the sacrifice that she gave to us, therefore given to life.

It's the early-degree-dest lesson of life. The thing that shook me as I wrote those words was coming up young with arrogance, confidence, knowledge of myself. They called me the scientists. We was taught due to supreme being in order to be the supreme being, you got to be supreme amongst other beings. I understand that more now than I did then because then I was so literal You know the word guard derived

Basically from the Greek language as they say and it meant wisdom strength and beauty Here we could have that But the power to control life and death is Something that you would assume is a God trait. So now here you are saying that you're a God, right? And you're reading the Bible how Jesus brought back Lazarus. And you know, now here's your turn to do something. And when my mother was laying there in the hospital bed, and air was going on and coming out of her lungs and going into her lungs, where's my power to bring her back to life? So you can't truly be God. You're powerless.

Yeah, or God is not the definition that we need to use to describe it. Because it's a translation of wisdom, strength, and beauty. So you could be that. But so I'm asking you a question with my mother, teach me about life. I learned that day on her physical passing. Okay. And I mean, that's a physical me. Do you think about her?

You miss her. Of course. I keep my mother in my prayer every day. And the thing I pray the most, beyond giving thanks is I pray that her name is honored and remembered by my family. I don't know if the world's gonna remember it, right? Even though if you watch my movie Love These Roms, I named the school in that movie after my mother just leaving somewhere else. Yeah, in physical space, yeah. Exactly, but yeah, painful.

The pain of my mother's passing is indescribable. Only into it happens to a person they know and then they won't describe it either. Only the people that lost their mother, they could look at each other and they got this nod. You know what I mean? But one other thing happened to me was the joy of life hit me differently. And I think it was the realization of my own mortality versus my end mortality. It's a big big thing and I don't know if we'll get the expound on that. But there was a joy that overcame me because I was kind of free of a certain illusion about the immortality of my physical being. First is the mortality of my physical being. And I was like, okay, wow, I understand.

So that was the first or the hardest realization you've experienced that your mortal. Yeah, and I'll say mortal and the what you're looking at here physically. I won't say my soul is mortal, right? I'll say it's immortal because at the end of the day, it's just like I could sit here and I could just hum, please, please, please, by James Brown, Please, please, by James Brown, but James Brown is not going to come in here and do that. So in some sense, James Brown is still here in another sense. It's so, it's it. So, it's it.

Wow. It lives through you by you singing it. It lives through you by you listening to it, celebrating it. And the hope is that the human species continues to celebrate the great minds and the great creations of the past. Our add this to that equation. When I say it's immortal, I don't think it's not just only because somebody sings it, right? It's like, where's the fire at right now? It's in the air. You just got to spark the spark. Yeah. So it's always there. Are you afraid of death? No, I'm not afraid of death.

I'm not trying to see it. I'm not rushing that nowhere near me, right? Because all I know is life. I'm not rushing that nowhere near me, right? Because all I know is life, right? My life is living. I read a lot of ancient texts, people probably know about me. And I love one of the great teachers named Boate Dama. And there was a thing written, and one of the books of his,

or one of the teachings of his, and the question, somebody asked him similar question, you know, you scared it death, what are you going to be after you die? And his answer was, I don't know. He had answers to everything. But he was like, I don't know. That's all. He doesn't know that. So yeah, because I haven't died yet. Well, the uncertainty to some people is terrifying, not knowing what's on the other side of the door. Yeah.

I mean, especially when you're young, you know, as a kid, fear terminated my life. You know, I mean, you know, I was actually watching horror movies and I believe then all type of supernatural things that could have, can't happen. I thought I saw things as well and You know whether it was being projected from my own mind or whether it was there visible to me. I don't know, right? But Life is beautiful

And we have it and we should use it all the way to the last drop we have it. And we should use it all the way to the last drop. Realizing the mortality, the gift your mother gave to you is realizing the immortal and in so doing, help you realize that life is beautiful. On this topic, Quincy Jones, I read, said to ODB and you, when it rains, get wet, what do these words mean to you? Well, I think what Quincy was saying at that time was you know, I Think I was more conservative like as a person and like you know

Have money women wanted me anything. I kind of wanted I probably could have had you know me And he was just saying when the rains get wet, enjoy this man, just raining on you. You know what I mean, don't put up the umbrella, don't go back in the house, get wet, experience the moment. Yeah, and enjoy it. And I didn't take total heat to him at that time. A couple of years later, it took some heat. But at that time, I didn't take heat. And when I took heat, I think that I may have mistreated by looking at his example

of getting wet versus my example of getting wet. And I could tell you right now, I'm getting wet right now in my way. In part, thanks to your mother, but overall, you just learn how to appreciate the rain, just like the, the experience of every moment. Yeah, and I'll share this with you because we, this is going to be a very open conversation and I haven't had this conversation. So definitely important, my mother didn't impart to my wife. I need my wife, it's my second wife, but I met her after

my mother passed. And she was just a friend, you know, some girls, I met her because she was beautiful and actually built the friendship with her. But a few years later when the relationship became, like, you know, this is gonna be my woman. It was actually doing the middle of my divorce. And I was like, you know, do I run wild? And hey, you know, me and my wife, already filed, we were separated. And do I run wild?

And I didn't run wild wild a little bit, but not too wild, right? And, you know, I'm a still a man. I just say hip hop God. I read you know how to party. Exactly. For the funny thing is that my wife now, her name is T'lani. my uncle said she reminds me of your mother. He knew my mother when before I knew my mother. And he saw that and we ended up dating, got engaged and then her mother passes. And so now there's a total understanding of everything. And we actually help build each other back up. So when so of course, I have to think my mother for the awareness. Then I think my wife for bringing that awareness to actualization. Like to actually feel,

I don't think I'd be talking to you right now and talking as much as I do these days, if it wasn't for the security and peace and harmony that I was able to gain in home, you know, so. And like you said, you now share that look of having to both lost here. Yeah. Your mom.

What have you learned from Quincy about music, about business, about life? Quincy Jones is a great mind, a great artist, you know, a treasure in all reality. He's seen it from when it was, he couldn't walk in this. He couldn't eat in the same places he played his music at, to own in places bigger than the house. So what a beautiful life, you know. He's a type of God. You spend one hour with him.

You got a lifetime of information. And I was blessed to spend multiple hours with them and days with them. You know, just a certain period of time where we came across each other and he was always there to share the knowledge. That's another thing about him that I think was special. Hopefully, I picked that up is that he's always willing to share. Share with his experience, his knowledge. I mean, I think he even share his home to the right person if he feels that that's what they need to get back on that feet. He's a very beautiful man.

So just the kindness, the goodness of the man is like the thing that really rubbed off on you. Yeah, I mean, minimal. I mean, Quincy Jones also, in his 50s, as a producer, produced one of the greatest albums of all time, and one of the greatest selling albums of all time. I just great critically, economically great.

And I mean, I think he did it at the age I am right now, so I might have a great year coming up. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha You've have a few people you've worked with who are fascinating like yourself. Quentin Tarantino, you work with him. Once somebody asked you to describe him with one word, you said encyclopedia. What have you learned from the guy? About filmmaking, about life, again. A very generous man with his knowledge. And for me, he shared it, I think, in a way that was unique in a sense of no at a point in time you know we just was super duper tight like you know I don't go into this crib and watch movies and just

having long conversations about art and about life you know man so I learned the lie I consider him you know especially when it comes to anything cinematic in my life, I could sit in him the guard father that for me. I think, you know, I humbly ask them to mentor me, which is a very humbling thing to do, coming from my neighborhoods, coming from who I am, coming from, I was already a multi platinum artist, you know, I mean, it was past the year 2000 already

So like 2000 one 2000 two that I asked him to mentor me. So I was the real But I humbled myself because I saw him a craft of brain power saw him a craft of brain power that to me resonated with me, but I was just a patemone and I was a novice at it because I was trying to make movies in my music. You know trying to make videos and here was a man who was a master of it and an encyclopedia of it as well. And like film history, film history, from whether it's the actor, the director, the cinematographer, maybe even the costume designer. He may know 50, 60, he may know the 50

greatest costume designers in his memory. Yeah, I mean, his guy's brain, both of you have pretty good memory. I'd love to be a fly in the world, that conversation. And Kung Fu movies mostly. We actually started, I think we started our relationship trying to outdo each other. Knowledge wise or what? Yeah, movie knowledge wise.

Actually Kung Fu movie knowledge wise. And I think that cat, if it was another category, I wouldn't have had a chance, but at least in that category, I was holdin my weight for one. You know what? I'll be honest and say that I May have set a few he didn't see yeah, but Quirng is older than me. Yeah, so he could go back Father. Yeah, he could go back to 72 Well, I didn't see one yet. You know, man. Yeah, Yeah. Well, we he said master the flying gate team that I got a chance to that you commentate over today and I got a chance to see the screening of he said that's one of his favorites

for you the 36 chamber of Shaolin The master killer is your favorite best best ever. Would you say that's the greatest kung fu movie ever? It's hard to say the greatest ever, right? Because somebody may make another one and it depends on your own phase of life. But I will put that first, if I want to introduce somebody to Kung Fu movies, that's a beautiful entry.

You talk about knowledge, you talk about wisdom. What kind of wisdom do you draw from Kung Fu movies? The, you know what, the martial art itself and the movies. It's endless wisdom to be drawn. And I draw it, you know, I draw it in a way, you know way that I could decipher it in my own life. So for instance, in the movie Master Killer, he basically, when he does Kung Fu, he does really a style called the Hong Kong technique. And the director of the movie is actually a hungar expert who has a lineage that traces all the way back to Shaolin Temple. This director always wanted to keep his movies purred and to bring hungar to the world.

It's like he wanted to show the world this lineage. In fact, you just said master of the flying gullotine is Quentin's favorite movie and we mentioned in 36 chambers It's my favorite movie, but the action director of master of flying guillotine is the director of 36 chambers of sound Yeah, and some of the things that's happening in Master of the other flying guillotine is really the infant stage of what this Action director is going to learn and then use later on in his movies. So that's the beauty of it. It's almost like, you know, Quentin is seeing him in his

generation. So Quentin might have been the same age I was watching that movie and then when he becomes a director, I'm at Quentin's age and I'm seeing his work. So some symbionic relationship there. And I'll end this question by saying, hungar deals with the five animal technique, the tiger, the crane, the leopard, the snake, and the dragon. Those are the five, that's the five pattern. Some people go seven, some go 12. But let's just stick to the five pattern and fist. How do a man emulate a tiger? And you see a tiger's fist. He curls before he sprongs on you. How does a man emulate a snake? It doesn't have to be only in the kung fu move. It's in the ideology of the snake. It's in the agility of the crane at any moment.

Sometimes punching a person is not going to work as they would say in leopard fish or a tiger paw. So sometimes you may have to poke them in the eye with the cranes beak So having your mind able to adapt the instinct of The animal when you are being attacked or when you are being the aggressor That's something that you don't need a form for that's the mentality so comfortable like I said it informs me Endlessly because at first I was trying to learn, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, like I can't really hit you with that and really hurt you. That's I've been banging my

hand a thousand times on some bricks and made it so callous or muscles are so strong. But the idea that if Nia was to get into a fight, and I'm going tie it up on you and take that instinct and plants when I'm a prince or Fly away like the stalk It's that's the mentality it's much more than the technical moves. It's it's much deeper. Yeah Yeah, it's interesting. I mean when I see the Kung Fu movies, I love martial arts, all martial arts and competitive ones too, like the actual competitions and so on. It just seems like Kung Fu movies go much deeper than just like the techniques. They start, I mean, if you see it, right?

Even I watched a great MM-A5 recently, you know, just interesting, because he was on top of the guy, you know, and the way he got from Undehr. You know, it had to be, you know, it's spirit got from Undehr. It's something like mixture of crane and whatever snake, ill, slippery ill technique. Yeah. Now I love that when people become artists in the cage or they, that's much bigger than just like winning much bigger than particular techniques.

It's just art, especially at the highest level competition when millions of people are watching. Which is pressure within the cell. Yes, yes. That's art under pressure is even more beautiful art. You know, you look at some of these fights and you wonder like, why why somebody wins and lose. And sometimes the less talent guy could win

because he could deal with the pressure. But the other guy, he could have beat him. There was somewhere else, but not in this arena. So you're a scholar of history, including hip hop history. I've listened to so many of your interviews. You've spoken brilliantly about some of the big figures in hip hop history, Tupac, Biggie, Nas, many others.

Maybe let's look at Tupac and Biggie. What made them special in the history of music? That's a good question So I don't know if I'm the authority to answer it But I'll just speak my piece on it and maybe I can just add on because I'm sure so a lot of people that spend a lot of time with them That could speak on it, but just as a fellow artist I think

Not only was B.R.G.A. double-lericist, I think he had a voice that was really immaculate. In a sense that some rappers get on top of music and you gotta get used to them when you gotta vibe with them. But he make a record sounds like a record immediately. If you go back and listen to his music, you could take his voice and put it on anything. And for some reason, it sounds like a record, you know, me, me just like the raw voice of the man. You can just listen to raw and it sounds like a record. Yeah. But if you put a beat, take his voice

to put it on any beat, it's, it just has a voice. It's a macala. You know? So it's local skills and all that was great. Um, and you got to think once again, he's doing all this, he's not even 25 years old. Yeah. Yeah. Then you go to Park once again, a macular voice, but what Park had, I think, was a way of touching us on all of our emotions. And especially on, like, Park had the power to infuse your emotional thought like

Brenda has a baby, their mama but then he had the power to arouse your development you know and those two things actually he was probably more dangerous than Big, no choice B.I.G. No choice B.I.G. We could party with him. To this day, we were still, but Park was probably going to a point. He was more going into the Malcolm X of things. And society fears that. Yeah, so he was really good at communicating love and at starting revolutions.

Yeah. And that's dangerous. Very dangerous. And they communicated love, but he wasn't starting level-of-loss. Well, it's interesting to think about what the world would be like if there were still with us, but it's the way the world, Hendrix, a lot of those guys just go to Tucson. Yeah, it's a peculiar thing.

You know, you asked me earlier, am I scared of death? And I asked you, no, not scared of death. I'm not trying to see it, though, you know what I mean? It's like, that, not scared of death. I'm not trying to see it though, you know what I mean? It's like that was the block of death. It's like, I'm not really going right there right now. I'm making a left for right turn. You know what I mean? Unless it was mandatory for some gradinist,

greater good, it's like, okay, I gotta drive through that. You know what I mean? Yeah, but it can still happen. That's the meditation on death part, where you could die at the end of today. Yeah, you could die or dead. Well, dying in death, I think it's two different things personally. Um, the process you mean of death or just, yeah, I mean, you could die. Like, so you could die every day. You could die and not be yourself. You know, man? Which is crazy. But to get to a point of no return, you know, and that's a whole other table.

I mean, there's some sense in which, um, Res of the producer becomes somebody else completely when you're making a film, becomes somebody else completely when you're, um, I don't know, playing chess becomes completely, we need something different when you're I don't know playing chess becomes completely something different when you do Kung Fu or watch Kung Fu or when you're a family man all of those are little deaths when you transition from one place to another so it's not like you're one being you're you're many things yeah I was a scrub now with a scrub that is all life dog Yeah, it's fun outside of you and

Anybody on Wu Tang who is the greatest Rapper from a lyrics like a word Smith perspective in hip-hop history or some of the greatest maybe some candidates There's name of few. I mean you're gonna have to start with a rock him You know you're gonna have to pick who G rap in there. You know, man. So going back, you're gonna you're gonna have to pick up with those brothers first. You might have to, if you want a good Technically, you might have to start with grandma's the cast. You know, man, who you might not you may not Have heard of. You know, man, but you may have sung his lyrics every time you sang sugar hill rappers delight Because that's it. How was it? They copied his they copied his and they made it does

But point being made but I I named a couple more. I got to put knives in that category You know, we got a chessboard in front of us and one of the greatest chess players The youngest grandmaster, you know, and out, you know, before I think Carlson was a Bobby Fisher. So, just use Bobby Fisher as the American. One of the greatest American chess players, of course, Susan Polga may have tied this record as the youngest grandmaster and she's the youngest female grandmaster, I think, to date.

But he was a master at what, 14? Yeah, something like that. So now, to me, I met Nas when he was 15. He was already a master lyricist. It takes about 10 years to become a master lyricist. So by the time the world heard of Wu-Tang, most of us had 10 years of rapping in us already. So that's why you met us at masterly level.

The jizzle was already a master, when Naz was a master, but the jizzle was 21. Naz was 15. So Naz is like the Mozart of rap. Yeah, or the Bobby Fischer. Just Bobby Fischer is born something in him, or maybe those early years just, because he's not just good at the lyrics.

He's also, he goes deep with it, just like you. So he's like, there's depth. It's not just like mastery of the word smithing. It's just the message you actually get. It's information. Yeah. And to a small phrase, that's the whole thing of energy. How do we condense all that energy into this

so that it could feel that? And he's definitely one of those artists, MCs that does that. And he was doing that at 15, you know, like I said, I'm thinking on five years or four or five years older than Nas. So I was always feeling, you know, my confidence of what I was doing, but I was like, this kid is on the 15.

Oh, shhh. I got a step up in my game. When he turned 19, then we got yoomatic. Yeah. From you, or what are the best and most memorable lyrics you've ever written? Well, that's a hard question for me. The stuff stand out, like stuff you're really proud of that was like, important in your career.

Yeah, I mean, I think I did a song called Sunshawa. I don't know if we put it on the Wu-Tang forever, double CD, but only on the international version. But if anybody can go get those lyrics and write those lyrics down, you could just put that in your pocket and I'm sure that it'll answer at least about 25% of your life's problems. Well, that's a good one, Sunshine, where you talk about religion and God, that's good. Tomorrow, I think it's on 8 diagram. I'm not a record guy. I'm a song guy.

Might have been 8 diagram. Do you have a lot of questions? Yeah, the answer to all questions, you're talking about God, the spark of all suggestions, of righteousness, the pathway to the road of perfection, who gives you all and never asks more of you, the faithful companion that fights every world with you, before the mortal view of the prehistoric, historical, he's the all in all you searching for the oracle. Good on him.

This is such a, this is so good. I mentioned impossible. It's purely philosophical, but you can call on your deathbed when you're laying in the hospital. You will call them on your deathbed. I had a big, I have a scientist friend. Well, my wife's best friend, Rebecca. She married a scientist. They both were scientists.

They both were scientists and she made a doctor nil I don't I'm gonna say their last names But nil and Rebecca, you know You know, you know, there's a white best friend so they come over and me and nil we go through the longest The dates of science and legend. We just go we'll break we could go break day with it. And, you know, before he had a child, he was more adamant and, you know, there's, you know, don't believe in God, you know, man? After a child, he still kept his thing,

but I just hit him with the question. If you was about to die, cause now you got a child to take him away, he's looking when you're thinking about yourself. Now, I said, if you was about to die, because now you got a child take them out, right? It's different when you're thinking about yourself. If you was about to die, you don't think you're going to make that call. He's like, I'll make that call. And it kind of inspired my lyric because it was like, yeah, who you gonna? And I just want to say a farce.

So you mentioned, that is one of my favorite Lurid, but that's part two to Sun Shower was the prequel to Sunshine. So if you ever get a chance to check out Sun Shower, it starts off with trouble follows on wicked mind. 2020 vision of the prism of life, but still blind because you like the inner. So every center could end up in the everlasting winter of hellfire. With dawns and splinters prick your eye out, you cry out, your words fly out, but you remain unheard. Suffering, internal and external along with the wicked fraternal of genitals and colonels, letting the affirmal nuclear heast that burns you firmly and permanently upon the journey

through the journal of the book of life, for those who took a life without justice will become just ice. It's been taught your worst enemy couldn't harm you as much as your own wicked thoughts. For people ought to be not and listen what So they find themselves persecuted inside their own universal court So that it's a long one. It's like a free pager. Wow, that is about life. That's like character integrity how to be Yeah, how to be in this world and that ultimately connects to God. Yeah. Who's God?

You. I'm glad you just asked that question because I actually, I'm going to have to make a distinguishable separation here. All right. Um, and it's funny because I heard recently, uh heard a rabbi was debating with this historian, Dr. Ben, I can't put this stock to Ben name, but it was the bait. And then at the bait,

they started going back through the etymology. They went way back beyond antiquity because they was debating it. So there was, you know, some things, they was going deep. And they really went far, far back to kind of the first word of of God. And it was when they pronounced it on this particular debate, it was Allah. And it's different that they got Allah in. I've already Agree to my heart in my life that The father this universe proper name is Allah

And of course in the log it all You know and I don't think that God is the same is that I think a log is birth to God Is the same is that I think a log is birth to God In fact if you take the world a lot ALL AH and you take it through numerology or numbers the number a being letter a being one L being 12 and you add it all up to as lowest To the you know the last denominator you're gonna get the number seven and the number seven is gonna, you're going to get the number seven. And the number seven is going to bring you right back to that letter G. So a law of born's God, but God don't born a law.

How does that guy, how does a law connect to the Oracle, the that you're, you're going to be calling for when you're laying in the hospital? Well, what I was saying in an episode of verse was that we're looking for the Oracle. We're looking for somebody else or something to help us that nobody can really help you at the end of the day. You know, and we're speaking on on so now that we I don't want to say we're speaking on religion, but we're speaking on a way of life and a way of thinking. And I've read many books, of course, and I could say there's no book that my the book that is the most strongest book I've ever read is actually the Holy Quran. It's stronger

to me than my than the Bible, which I've read. It's stronger than quantum physics, which I've read. It's stronger than the Baga Vigitas. It's just, and I read once a British scholar said, it's the most stupidest book I've ever written. And it doesn't make sense. And so I said, oh, I see why he says that. I can't understand exactly why he said that as well. Why is that? Because the structure of the words are just,

it's peculiar, you know what I mean? But it's almost like how some people songs, you don't really know exactly what they're saying until years later. Yeah, you have actually Joe Rogan, I think you talked about how a joke of Dave Chappelle hit you like a long time after this. So this is kind of like the Quran. It, uh, I tend to believe that we, like human beings cannot possibly understand anything as big as these ideas. So, um, just, I don't know, did you think that, like, are you humble in the face of just the, the, the immensity of it?

To be honest, Jess, I'm humble in the face of just the the immensity of it? to be honest just I'm humble in the face of the You can say the world again. I pronounce words funny and the I'm the pittance I'm essence the Magnitude I'm humble within the face of in the face of Allah The problem that we I may have had was that I wasn't humbled in the face of God because it's just a definable thing. And that's why I think a lot of us, and I'm saying that, you know, I know when we say

God, we're trying to say a lot, like people were saying that, but they're actually not saying the same thing because you're actually putting something beside. And and that's the reason why you can have gold as many guards. You can find a whole bunch of them. I mean, but you're not going to find many. There's nobody beside a lot. A lot is one. So I know it's the whole thing, but that's my hardest is there. I'm humbled by it.

I'm at piece with it. And it doesn't take nothing or the merit, anything from myself. That's the beauty of it. It doesn't take nothing from me from being who. So if I say if somebody walk up your piece God, I could take that because they're telling me that, yo, I'm a man of wisdom, I'm a man of strength, I'm a man of beauty, or some attribute of that, you know what I mean? So the Wu-Tang, they're the gods of rap. There's wisdom there, they're strength there, there's beauty, they will take that. Yeah, so. So Wu-Tang is one of the greatest musical

artistic philosophical groups ever. Let's look hundreds of years from now. When humans are robots or aliens or whatever that's left here, they look back. What do you hope they remember about Wu-Teng? What do you hope the legacy is? Well, even with thousands years, I hope we don't get with it in humans. But, you know, look, whatever happens is going to happen. But I think that my philosophy on it is that we're gonna continue to advance and continue to advance things around us, but I don't see us becoming extinct. Well, I mean, the reason I bring up sort of Wu Tang in that context, then this is a special

moment in human history. It's like a hundred years and we've created all of this music. Just if you think of all the richness of music that's been created over a hundred years, it's like, it's not obvious to me that that's not going to stop. Like there's a flourishing here. So it's funny because I can see where the, the book of human history is written. There's a chapter on this period of time.

And one of the things we did well is like all the technological innovation was like with rockets and with the internet, but then there's also the musical innovation and film innovation. Right. Just so much art that's being created and Wu Tang is a huge part of that. So I just wonder what like if there's a few sentences written about Wu Tang. It just makes me wonder how they remember. I would hold that people will, no matter how many years are inspired by us, but I will say if I can just use Ute as itself, so we first started off the witty, unpredictable talent and natural game, natural gaming and natural world play. And then we went to the wisdom of the universe, the truth of a law for a nation of God. Wisdom, universal truth, a law, nation, God.

And it's just like, so this is go back to a nation of God. This is take the last two letters. A nation of wisdom, strength, and beauty. Right? And I'm gonna go a little political here, but not going political. As we say, we're the greatest country in the world. What makes us the greatest? That's to be a question we ask. Is it our wisdom? Is it our strength? Is it our beauty? Now, since say, off the easiest answer, you know what's our strength? We got the

nooks. Nobody can really, you know, between the mouth and washer. They put it so we just, you know, they, that's the argument. Who could beat them? But where's the wisdom? Then they go argue, well, we got the technology. Right. But then where's the beauty when there's so much suffering and the people? It means that I can complete. The hope is that the wisdom is in the founding documents and the imperfect, but why is founding documents of the celebrated freedom that celebrated all the ideas, sort of having a lot of nukes, having a lot of airplanes and tanks, and that's not important. The hope is whatever we're doing here

with this quote greatest country on earth that we preserve the ideas and help them flourish. Yeah. You can say, well that's what I mean. So if we could get, so if you go back to the Wu Tang, I'm saying, that's what we're striving for. We're striving for that, you know what I mean? But you start on predictable and just like,

Yeah. Just, yeah. But like, but like got deep pretty quick I gotta talk to you about Bruce Lee Who's Bruce Lee to you? Who is he to the world what ideas of his or interesting to you like what? You know you talk about like Hendrix and music Bruce Lee is that in martial arts. He just seems to have changed the game. Yeah. You know, I went as, I guess I don't know if the word bold is the right word to say, but I went as bold as to say. That he was a minor prophet.

And I got that concept from the Holy Quran with it says that we send prophets to every nation, every village. We don't let nobody not hear the word in some form. Because it won't be fair. And so if a law is merciful, even a man whose death has to somehow get a sign. I don't know if Moses saw a burning bush. It was nobody else to talk to. So it had to talk to the bush. I don't know. I could have been a bush. This man too. Right. But point being made, it says that they are minor prophets. And I see Bruce Lee as one of them because what he bought to the world through it through March, you are. It was a whole shift in the dynamic of thinking. You know, and that happens when certain certain entities are born, but he didn't do it only in a

In the physical sense he was also for the philosophy and in the same process And he was also Straving to be the best of himself. So you got three things going on. I Study Bruce Lee multiple times. At first, of course, when I saw my first Kung Fu movie, it was the fake, it wasn't really Bruce Lee. It was a few green horned clips cut together. And then I saw a black somewhere. Then my following kung fu movies was like fearless fighters, the ghostly face, you know, the fist of double cable. Basically, and fearless fighters, the lady put the little kid on her back and flew across

the ocean, across the lake, right? So Bruce wasn't doing that. And then I went on to five deadly venoms and spearmen and 36 chambers. And these movies are beautiful. And yet they're all heightened. Bruce, they're heightened beyond doable. You're not going to say surreal. They play with the world that's not of this world. Yeah. Bruce played with this world. So when I somebody's, so when it's only on my first saw Bruce, I actually didn't think he was as good as these guys. He can't fly. He's not flying in the movie, right? But then when I saw, because the first one I saw was the big boss was they retied with Fistafuri. But then when I saw Chinese connection,

which is the real Fistafuri, I saw something different there. And I got enamored and then of course into the dragon, just really complete. That's why my first album was Enter the Wu Tang 36 Chambers of Silence. So it's Enter the Drag and the 36 put together because those are the two epidemies. So what happened is, you know, that's young me. Then teenage me studies him again.

And I realized, wow, look at this physicality. Look how he's really, he's moving for real. And then I studied him again while I look at what he's saying. Then I studied him again while I look at what he's really he's moving for real. And then I studied him again while look at what he's saying. Then I studied him again while look at what he's stands for. Which do you like in the realm of martial arts, the the real or the surreal, what the dance between the two? Yeah, I think the dance between the two because a move, I mean a movie to me is to entertain you So I'm cool with Obi-Wan Kenobi

Disappear in Out of the cloak We'll invade the strike some down And then I'm like, yo, what happened? He's like one Luke run Who with that, right right because that's the imagination and The imagination gets stimulated to the point to us things that we saw imagined by our artists We strive to create in our real world thus start track to me is just a precursor to our cell phones. Yeah So for me, I like to mix the two

Yeah, it's funny how the like fiction, like pushing into the impossible actually makes it realize eventually. Yeah. Yeah, once we see a D on screen, no matter how wild it is, we're trying to make it. Yeah, we're trying to make it. Some young kids get inspired when we watch that. I'm going to build that. Exactly.

So I don't know who's going to come with the back to the future time machine, but do you have any classmates that you think that's gonna be the time machine? I thought you were going to back to the future, like the, what is it? The hoverboard or like, yeah. Well, yeah, we are there at least. Somebody, they got, you know,

they see the one on the water? No. You know what it's close on the water, wait. No, the surf hover It's dope nice it's dope. It actually It actually if you were back to future fan you feel like you made it to Made it yeah, well now we just got to work on the on the time travel and it was cool to hear you talk about the Master of the flying G 18 today that that inspired

the hear you talk about the master of the flying geeky in today that that inspired the lyric for the you know Wu Tang client and nothing to f with yeah how does that go again but the coast world or the learn nothing I am Russian but the lyric I said I'd be torsing and forcing. My style is awesome. I'm causing more family foods than Richard Dawson. And the survey said, you're dead. The Federal Flying Galerete child soft, your head. Yeah. Yeah. And it was interesting to see the G 18 and the movie today.

How? I don't know. That's surreal, right? But it's not. It's like, it's engineering. It's both surreal and it just, and it adds this chaos into this real world that, and then challenges everybody to think what you're going to do with that. How are you going to beat it?

Yeah, how are you going to beat it? Both when you have the good and the evil and the mix of the bad guys and the good guys and you're not sure who the bad guys are. It's the old question of good versus evil, right? Yeah, like you said, then the question of who was good, who was evil? But they all had a similar problem and the good ones he came here.

But in terms of the real, you mentioned the Godfather, good and evil, that's your favorite movie. What makes you great, do you think? The characters, the study of family, of justice, of power. What connects with you? Oh, I mean, every one of those themes connects in a real, in a cinematic way as well. The difference I think with me and the Godfather was, I seen it doing a period of time when my father was absent. And therefore family structure and family values was actually adopted in my family

because of that, you know, me and my brother, Devon, we actually took so much heat to that movie and our family life. We kind of mimic that family in this structure of somebody has to be the leader of the family. Even it was the younger. Michael was younger than Sonny and Fragral. You know what I mean? But he was worthy. And my brother, the vine is older than me.

And my brother, King is older than me. And it's funny, it was a time the vine called King Fragral. I know King wants to, as King was asking, he asked me, he could beat I as, see my language. Yeah. But you're a Michael. Yeah. And not by choice like

just by definition of that's what I am you know, man, and and uh, it's just a blessing for me to have my older sister, my older brothers, uh, and my younger brothers look to me as, uh, and my younger brothers looked to me as Just as a good light in the family and like I said that movie helped my sisters to week You know the cool thing about my family. I know if I shit. It's a lot It's a big we all watch these movies together, and so the a diagram pole fighter master killer Father even as my family knows these movies, it's not just I know them, right? And then you extended further, my friends know them, right?

Two. So there's a language that we all can have that actually film has informed our communication. or communication. So the Godfather, you know, which also is still a fictional story of something, but since it was based in reality based on something real and it was human, it wasn't so heightened. I think the purity of it resonates and the purity of it is something that resonates with me, you know, you got to be you got a plan ahead You know, he didn't want to deal with the drugs but That time of business was upon them. It's like it's almost like this is a tough one like sometimes when the Muslim brothers come from the Middle East to America And they open up delis, right?

They would sell him. And we would go in there and complain to them and make them like they, they used to get mad at us when we came. But you know, that's as a kid, but as a man, I'm like, yo, he's here to sell. They still don't have to sell to him. Like, like, Fido Codion didn't want to sell the drugs. Okay, he didn't want to sell the drugs. Okay, he didn't have to do it. He didn't do it. And of course, I'm some bullets to eventually somebody in the family ended up doing it. Yeah.

You see what I mean? What about this idea that's family before everything else? So like, you know, there's, there's different laws you live, according to in this world. and the family is first. Yeah. That's that's that's mathematically correct. I like that. I mean, there's a there's a certain sense of you look at powerful people, you look at Putin, there's a certain sense in which the people who are in the inner circle,

that's who you take care of, that's family. Anyone else that crosses you, that there's a different set of ethics under which you operate for those people. Well, Jesus said the same thing. You know, when he said love, die, neighbor, and and our brother he was talking about that community. Yeah When our other lady is a marathon Say Jesus I'm not feeling my brother not feeling so well, and cuz you he say give not that which is holy unto the dogs If you're gonna tell a woman

I'm give not that which is holy Until the dogs and she's a woman. You just call her a dog If I say that in hip hop Yeah, he called the dog. I know how that goes, but she tried but she said to him But even the dog is allowed to eat the crumbs that falls from the master's table And he went helped yeah, he helped Now let's go back to what you just said about pooling or Veloco the owner of my self and my family. Of course, the family is first.

But once the family is good, it has to then spread to the community, then to the state, country, world. The problem we have sometimes is that, and this is the reason why a lot of powerful families was overthrown Like why did they be had their own came with the gullotine, right because that once the family was strong they didn't let the The wealth the opportunity expand out

You know look at the Wu Tang Yes, our family was made strong first, but then all the Wu members able to form their own corporations and they had their own sub-families. It has to grow out. And they took over the world. You've talked about being vegan.

And I don't think I heard you explain this because it connects somehow about how you think about life. So you talk about when your family's good, you grow that like circle of empathy, you grow the community. Is that how you think about being vegan that just the capacity of living beings on earth

to suffer that you just don't want to add suffering to them. Yeah, I mean, you said it clear. It's like nothing in all reality. I came to a realization that nothing really has to die for me to live. Yeah. No animal, the plants themselves, right? So this is say, you know, you want a steak, which is probably the most, you know, you know, I don't know the most expensive piece of meat, but this is say the steak is, you know, top of the line, nice steak.

And you can eat the steak for the protein that help build your muscle. And I don't know if you got it from a cow or a bull, but whether it's a cow or a bull, they grow to about 1,500 pounds. And if it's a bull, it's all muslim muscle. And it's only in grass. Yeah, yeah, there's, yeah, it's possible to both as an athlete and just as a human being to perform well without meeting me. There's something and just as a human being to perform well without meeting me. That's something, especially in the way we're treating animals,

to deliver that meat to the plate. I think about that a lot. So I do, I'm a robotics person, AI person. And I think a lot about, I don't know if you think about this kind of stuff, but building AI systems as they become more and more human-like, you start to ask the question of, are we okay if we give the capacity for AI systems to suffer, first to feel,

but then to suffer, to hate and to love, to feel emotion, how do we deal with that? It starts asking the same question as you ask of animals. Are we okay adding that suffering to the world? Right. And I don't think we should add this suffering because it's not necessary. Like when you look, if it's necessary, right?

Because we're survival or the first law of nature is self-preservation. If you are on a desert and it's nothing else to eat, but that lizard, yeah. Yeah okay. You gotta do what you gotta do. Lizard's gotta go. Yeah, you gotta go You gotta do what you gotta do because after the end of the day, man is When they say man has dominion over these things His dominion is almost like a caretaker Out the way we do out the minion we dominated eat it cook it like who who's the first guy that looked at the lobster It was like I'm gonna eat this thing It's like it's supposed was hard to eat it. Yeah, you got to go through a process to get that a crab

I'm gonna make me see crabs when he was kids and I didn't know why I was always getting itchy throats and all that You know you can't you know just eat but at end of the day, a crab didn't provide no more than a finger work for meat meat. And it was hell getting that thing getting it out. It's like, it's not worth it. No, reality. You could have gave me a banana and did better for my body. And my appetite and my being fulfilled as full. Like look, look at the

blessings of life, right? If you take a seed or you get an apple and you eat it, in that apple is multiple seeds in it. If you plant that seed, it'll give you a whole tree with a whole bunch of apples with all multiple seeds. But if you kill a fish, it can't be produced done. If you kill a cat is done, it's not because it's not the coming back. But when you deal with the plants, even after you eat the apple and then you defecate, your defation is what fees the ground the cause of apple to grow more. Yeah circle life And especially there's a there's a guy named David Foster Wallace. He wrote a short Story called consider the lobster if you actually think philosophically about what From a perspective of a lobster That's like symbolic of something,

because you're basically put in the water, like cold water, and then it heats up slowly until it's no more. It's torture, yeah, it must have been like, they start eating lobsters in the air, in the air, in the air, in the air. Yeah, yeah, they just enjoy, they probably enjoy torturing animals,

and they realize they're also delicious after the torture is finished. That's probably how they discovered it. Let me ask you a question. I know you asked me the questions, but I just want to talk a little bit about the AI. You said something about trying to put the emotion in it. Yeah. Right. So do we, so are you thinking there's an algorithm for emotion? So do we so are you thinking there's an algorithm for emotion? Yes But I think emotion isn't something that there's a Algorithm for for particular system. We create emotions together. So

Emotion is something it like this conversation. It's like magic. We create together. So I Have I've worked with quite a few robots of a very simple version of that. I've had, you know, a room of vacuum cleaners. They're, I've had them make different sounds and one of them is like screaming and pain like lightly and just having them do that when you kick them or when they run into stuff immediately, I start to feel something. Right. So the emotion, okay. So the emotion you're saying is impulse back on the human yeah but I'm accident you think there's an algorithm for the emotion to be impulse from machine and machine yeah that that's a really good way to ask it um it's it's difficult because I think

ultimately I only know how to exist in the human world so it's like it's the question of if a tree falls in the forest, nobody's there to see it. Does it still fall? I still think that ultimately machines will have to show emotion to other humans and that's when it becomes real. I'm thinking about this a lot too. I just, okay. Now I'll come here with this because I come here to you with this, because I'm thinking about this.

And this is your feel. Well, do you think emotion is wave? Like light is wave, or is it think it's particle? So emotion is just a small, it's like a shadow something bigger. And I think that bigger thing is consciousness. So emotion is just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- It's just- if it's that fundamental to the I had a lyric. I had a lyric. I had a lyric that said this. It comes out, they did this documentary about the planet

and I gave it, and what a song is called The World of Confusion. And I'll try to paraphrase it, but in the world of the confusion where there's so much illusions, we suck the blood from the planet. Now it needs a transfusion and the redistribution of wealth of health and wealth of self and a deeper understanding about mental health. The doctor described the physical solution,

the psychiatrist wants to build a bigger institution, but neither have the solution or the equation to make an instrument to measure the weight of the hate vibration. What is the weight of hate? Is it heavier than the weight of love. Is it heavier than the weight of lead inside of a slug with just 10 milligrams? Is all it takes to kill them then. But anyway, it's not going from there. But damn, that's good.

But the question, you see the question there, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It can be measured. It cannot be measured. I think so. I think so. Just knock out the estimate. Yeah, yeah.

So we're in the dark ages of that, but I think it could be measured. I think so. I think so. Just knock out the estimate. Yeah. Yeah. We're in the dark ages of that, but I think it could be measured. I think there's something physical, like something that connects us all this much. You know, we tend to think we humans are distinct entities and we move about this world, but I think there's some deeper connection. But we're so, listen, sciences in the, we just had a few breakthroughs in the past 100 years from Einstein and the theoretical physics side. We don't know anything about human psychology. We barely know much about human biology. We're trying to figure it all out. Yeah, I had another theory because you think about quantum, right? As long as you say that there's an uncertainty

and you have me believe there's an uncertainty, then there's an uncertainty. But if there's not an uncertainty, what happens? So I'm only saying that, it's last, last, last, cause you look at quantum computers, they're gonna give you the all, the one, the one, the all, they're going to take two things and make it eight things.

And by the time you multiply four of those things together, it's like this chessboard, right? The moves cause them to the millions. But the thing that's introduced is the uncertainty, right? You're going to make a move. Just, you know this already, right? Because this has been played a thousand times. But sooner or later, something uncertain is gonna come in

or make your next move. I like the weight of these. They add the certainty. I think it's just like who saying unpredictable that there's something about us humans that really doesn't like everything to be fully predictable. I mean chest two is perfectly solvable. There's nothing unpredictable about chess right I could agree to that because Bobby Fisher said in one of his books I just want to actually love what he said He said every game of chess is a draw Yeah, the only way somebody wins when one of us makes a mistake. I mean, does anybody in the audience know what what is chess?

Like, how do you think about chess? What's at the core of your interest in chess? Do you see Kung Fu music, film, all of it life, all just living through chess? Yeah, I see. It's the most stimulating passage of time for me. That's also, it's like, it's a pastime. That stimulates my mind, my music, my thoughts about life at the same time. So while some pastimes is like, say baseball is watching

it's a pastime. And baseball can stimulate you, depending on how you look at it, right? But most likely, you're not gonna get this much brain activation, this much calculation, and this much thinking about yourself and again, my baseball. I mean, the player maybe, but not the viewer.

Chest is something that I can engage in too. And even though it's a past time, it's giving me all the stimulation of real time in my life. It's funny because it's also, it's a funny game because it's connected through centuries of play. Just some of the most interesting people in the history of the world have played this game and have struggled with whatever, have projected their struggles onto the chess board and thought there and the nations have fought over the chess board.

Right. The Soviet Union versus the United States, Bob, befisher represented the United States. Asking if you represent the Soviet Union. Yeah. I got a, before I lose track of it, when we were talked about the Godfather you were an American gangster great film You said it's one of your favorites, too. What you were in it with Denzel Washington What makes that movie meaningful to you? What what

What was the like making that movie? It was a great great American film. That was a great American film There was so many things in that film. Being a part of that film was probably a blessing and a treasure, because even if I wasn't a part of it, this course sets great filmmaking and to me a really cool, great story. The thing that I love about it the most really is the process of it, you know, which part of the process is. I wouldn't known the process if I wasn't part of it. So as a film, joy is, it was great film, but even the process of making it was like a high level education for me on multiple levels. I'm working with Ridley Scott, which is and this is a bold statement if I say this here because I've got a lot of

friends that's gonna probably, but he's probably the best living director. Because watching him allow me to understand a principle that I've coined to him, and I don't know if people use it yet, called multi-vision. He seems to have the capacity to see eight things that one time, I heard on Robin Hood, he had 18 cameras. I wasn't deaf for that. And you think he keeps him all in his mind just see I seen him

do it when he went to the monitors with the video playback guy. Yeah. I seen him bring everything back to to a point but nothing was the same on the frame. He was already there. Yeah, and he knew if he had what he was or not And he placed the cameras there Be and he and he he saw it like in his own way and I peeped it You know, I'm I peeped it. Yeah, and I said yeah, and I just you know humbly asked him. He was like He was gracious enough to speak to me and talk to me and confirm. Yeah.

Well, I thought I saw. He confirmed it. He confirmed it. And I was able to utilize it as I'm a filmmaker now. And I see, I could at least see three or four things. I can't see eight yet. I'll be there though. But I could definitely, like even right now,

just I could go like this in the room. Okay. I got it now. I got like how to make this right here, which is just us all sitting. How do I make this? Look, boom. Come on on, hell.

This is a story there. It's a story of you there. And I might just go off his hang and watch or his hanging wristband. Yeah. You know, because there's something else there too. He's dead, we don't know. Exactly.

So, so he has this. And even though this is the scene. Yeah, you keeping that in mind, all of this in mind. Yeah. What about like, can you give an inkling of other parts of the process like the editing like what is the Another thing another thing. Pedro. I don't pronounce Pedro last night. Why is it is a cool guy had a chance to play rugby with him. He was on his own. Was he on my team? Yeah, well, we went both teams, but Pedro the editor who you know added many great films once again he has

I will call the cipher in power A good editor is a decipher almost like breaking the enigma Because he's dealing with like breaking the enigma because he's dealing with thousands or we'll call it a film with millions of feet of film, at least a million feet of film. That's a lot of film before a feature. He's dealing with that, but he's dealing with multiple cameras. So it ain't like it's like two cameras. He got an A, B and he could just go back.

No, he may have six cameras and he has to go back and deal with that process. And you know what? He knows how to tell the story again. And he proved it on American gangster as me being a witness because it's so much information. It's even when the brothers all start getting their little business and then he picked one of the Bronx, and he just captured every neighborhood within one minute, and you knew what will happen.

You knew it all. You know, you saw the whole rise of fame. You watched the Palmer and Scarface who does it in two minutes, but it's only one character. So you see him go to the bank, he drops the money, you're off, you see him buy the lion, you see him get his wife, or the tiger, you see him get his wife, you see all that, then it ends on the big side of him in the big house with all the TV screens. And you see him go through it, right? But in the American gang, so you're going to tell tell that story of rising, but you also got to include these five brothers. Yeah.

And so that's all in the edit. Oh man. But also all in the director, knowing that as well. And you gotta keep track, you gotta keep thinking about them because that was a story right there. Yeah. Well, I was hearing it. I don't know if they was taking pictures of him or

about having a little party over there. Yeah, yeah. Jess, I think. Yeah, I was hearing it. I don't know if they was taking pictures of him or Yeah, I was having a little party over there. Yeah, yeah, Jess. I think yeah, I like it. They're playing chess and This is great You you said that you were always an old soul and see the world as if you're 200 years old I like this time because your creative vision allows you to see the final piece you've created, or you're creating very quickly, quicker than others. I heard that as if you've almost like lived many lives, you have this experience that allows you to see the vision.

So let me ask you on creativity, where does this creativity behind Rizah come from? This, both musically and film wise. I don't know if I have the answer to that one, right? But it's a, no, first of all, what does it come from? The only thing I could say about that is that for some reason, it seems endless. And that's peculiar when I think about it myself

because I was taught a lot of things from the jizzah. He introduced me to mathematics. He introduced me to hip hop itself, the break dancing. I got other cousins that introduced me to graffiti. The cousins that introduced me to DJ and like, I realized I had a lot of introductions, but the juzz are definitely, you know, my older cousin gave me a lot of early inspirations. And not saying that he's not creative, as creative as he was then or now. I just think like the wide span of creativity, I don't see him doing that, right? And I don't see my cousin that

told me how to DJ. I just see them move from DJing to making the beats. You know, a cousin that, you know, who actually got me into instruments, I didn't see him leave funk and rock. He didn't call, like I'm orchestra composer now. Yeah. So, so I just said to myself, I just accept myself as an artist, as a creative artist. That's what I am.

I have to accept that. Now, where it comes from, I don't know if I was to try to say where it comes from, I think, give me some type of answer. I'll say from life itself. But what does it feel like? Because you mentioned during this pandemic, for example, for some reason more came to you in terms of writing.

And so do you feel like you're just receiving signals from elsewhere? Or like, do you feel like it's hard work or you're just waiting? Wow, it's not even waiting. Or it's hard work. It's almost like, I said in one of my other lyrics This is for the MC part of it. I said MC in the me is easiest breathing

So it's like breathing. Yeah, it's just like In fact, there's actually with the scientific scientific thing I read about that now You made me now you said that you heard this. I know you've had to hear this. They say that You know the atoms in our atmosphere, which seem to be infinite in number, are not infinite in the space they occupy. Like they're in our atmosphere. And so there's a chance that at least one million atoms that you breathe in your life

Was breathed by Galle A.O. You heard this before, right? Yeah, okay It's very accurate. Okay, how does your body digest it? Yes, it. Well, let's start at the fact that most of the atoms in our, what they were made of is from like stars, right? Stars versus like, we're all really connected fundamentally somehow. And then they get the atoms to make up our body,

commonly even the same with the cells that are in our body, they die and are reborn. And we don't pay attention to any of that. That all just goes through us. I don't know. That makes me feel like I'm not an individual. I'm just a finger of something much bigger, some much bigger organism. Well, because you drink in the coffee, yeah right? You're going to digest that. You're going to digest those atoms, whether you want to put them through the bowel or through the urination, it's coming out, or maybe you're sweated out. You might sneeze it out, but they

want to make their way out. How do you digest the atoms if you just breathe in Cali, ehal. Right? How do, and that's what I think a artist does. I think something in the artist, it's like some people eat things and they're going to gain weight. Some people ain't going to gain weight. They're going to gain muscle. My, I'm just giving an analogy here. I'm thinking that the artist breathes in

and translates it into the art. First they gotta hear it. I think most of us don't hear that. Like don't, we receive it, but it's the art. First they got it here. I think most of us don't hear that. Like don't we receive it, but it just doesn't. Right, it's not, yeah, we now have the frequency. I said this to a while artist, and even, you know, in York, because to ourselves artists in a certain way,

but not, you know, but let's just say there's only one million artists in the world. Good. This is, you know, it's probably 10 with it. Yeah. If you divide that into the population, what would that, what would that, what would part of the table, would it be?

Tiny part. It might be that, right? Yeah. Um, yeah, it's that that inspires that. Oh, yeah. And you know, it's so crazy about that though. There's also a chance, I'm just going numbers and I'm going to talk about the size and which but there's also a chance that all of this is actually informing that.

Yeah. The artist is just watching this, all of this, all the chaos of this. Yeah. So it's hard to, all the chaos of this. Yeah, so it's hard to know where the beauty comes from. Is it the artist or the chaos from the... So I just, I don't have the answer, but if I was to be forced to say a something, and you're not twist my arm, but...

I'll say, I can if you want me to. No, thank you. I'll see life. Yeah, life. In the Tauvoo, you write something about confusion, which I really like. Confusion is a gift from God. Those times when you feel most desperate for a solution, sit, wait. The information will become clear.

The confusion is there to guide you. Seek detachment and become the producer of your life. So I've got to ask you advice. If a young person today in high school college is looking for some advice, what advice could you give them? To be a producer of a life that can be proud of? Read the Dow Wolf. Let's start with the Wu Tang Manu first. Yeah, no, I'll go do routine, manual first. Yeah, no, you go do that second. Second. Yeah. I think you could be the Dow-Voo first

and then do the manual. Because the manual is not the two books against each other, but the manual is talking about things that it's so deeply connected to the music and the people in the Dow-Voo goes beyond that. So I would actually start there, which is not normally how I was proud, I always tell people to start at knowledge,

then go to wisdom. But since the Dowel, skip ahead to wisdom, like it. Yeah, I think for that for a young man in high school, go to the Dowel rule and then go back. It's just like sometimes, you know, you have, you know, like my son's generation, they had to watch the other, the second round of Star Wars. Yeah. And then go back, you know, I mean, this generation is watching the Force Awakens and then they go back. Yeah.

But what, because if you just look at your life as an example, that's one heck of a life. Because if you just look at your life as an example, that's one heck of a life. There's very few lives like it. You've created some of the most incredible things artistically in this world. Like if somebody, you talk about that like one million right at the corner of the table, if somebody once strives dreams to become one of those, how do they do it? Well, the beautiful thing is that there are footprints left by those who've done it. You know, and the best way is to study that. The study those who've already done what you want to do. You know, we, you know, we live on the civilizations. We said, this is the greatest country in the world, but our silvers of pyramid would eye on it. You know what I mean?

Because they did it before. And they may have failed for some reason or something happens, but it was just a strong enough example, right? They take us further. You know, Elon Musk is sitting here trying to do better than what the rocket builders did before He's not the first one to build the rocket. He's not the first guy to think over the electric car He's doing it better. He's advancing it to the point that

Whoever picks up after him, maybe they'll get to that flying car so that's the beauty uh There's a good verse. I love finding verses to say things to confirm because this way people could take it verbally, physically and then maybe even spiritually. But Christmas is set of roast.

He said, the fastest way to heaven is by spending time or studying the wise people. Meaning the wise people who was living and those who lived before you. Study the masters. Yeah. Let me ask you a big perhaps ridiculous question, but give it a shot. What is the meaning of this whole thing? What's the meaning of life? Big question. I'm not going to rush into the answer. I'm going to give you somebody else answer first and I'll give you my answer.

I remember acting this in, you know, I was 15, 16 years old. One of the brothers, you know, we studied in mathematics. And the letter I itself was means I Islam. I mean in the individual, right? Being a total accord with Islam. And I mean, it's finished this. Then it took the word Islam and they defined it. That Islam is an Arabic word for peace.

Then they said peace is the absence of confusion. Okay. So then they took, I mean, this is something that really hit me when I was, I never forgot it. And I'm gonna go into the site for it, but then they took the word Islam and they broke it down by the letter into an acronym like casual everything around me Mm-hmm, and they they broke it down to I

Stimulate light and matter Because we're hitting you that if you're not here Then light and matter don't exist to you So you're stimulated Or they didn't hear for you So anyway taking all that so then I said, you know, so what's the meaning of life? And it brothers just said love is long forever

Right I ain't saying the religious point of it. I'm just saying all those like, I only see a little bit of a little bit of it. I'm just seeing all those other elements I just spoke about in front of it. I stimulate light and matter. I love that. That's powerful. And let me give you my definition of life. I think life is that simply for each and every one of us to add on to

Build like you said the masters build on top life gave you life give life back I don't think there's a better way to end it and talking about the meaning of life Rizza I'm a huge fan and such a huge honor to you spend your valuable time with me. Thank you so much. Bye, baby. Peace. Thanks for listening to this conversation with Riza. To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now let me leave you some words from Playdown. Poetry is nearer to vital truth than history. Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time. you