Lex Fridman Podcast - #255 – Mark Normand: Comedy!

Episode Date: January 9, 2022

Mark Normand is a stand-up comedian. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors: - Calm: https://calm.com/lex to get 40% off - InsideTracker: https://insidetracker.com/lex and use code Lex25 to get 25% off - Onnit: https://lexfridman.com/onnit to get up to 10% off - Grammarly: https://grammarly.com/lex to get 20% off premium - ROKA: https://roka.com/ and use code LEX to get 20% off your first order EPISODE LINKS: Mark's Twitter: https://twitter.com/marknorm Mark's YouTube: https://youtube.com/c/marknormand Out to Lunch (special): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDolNU89SXI The Standups: Season 3 (Netflix): https://www.netflix.com/title/80175685 PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ YouTube Full Episodes: https://youtube.com/lexfridman YouTube Clips: https://youtube.com/lexclips SUPPORT & CONNECT: - Check out the sponsors above, it's the best way to support this podcast - Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman - Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lexfridman - Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman OUTLINE: Here's the timestamps for the episode. On some podcast players you should be able to click the timestamp to jump to that time. (00:00) - Introduction (08:45) - Love (11:51) - Childhood in New Orleans (26:37) - New York (35:11) - LA vs NY (44:25) - Advice for new comedians (58:57) - Crafting jokes (1:00:59) - Norm Macdonald (1:08:32) - Favorite medium (1:12:43) - Austin (1:19:04) - Sending people to space (1:20:37) - Robots with human emotion (1:24:08) - Self-driving vehicles (1:28:15) - Future of human interaction (1:32:22) - Advice for young people (1:36:22) - Rapid random questions (1:54:09) - Meaning of life

The following is a conversation with Mark Normand, a New York comedian who has a way with words that is often both dark and hilarious. Let there be a warning dear friends, to proceed with caution and to wear protection. You may in fact need it. He has a special on his YouTube called Out the Lunch and a new special on Netflix as part of the Stand Up Season 3, I recommend you watch. And now a quick few second mention of your sponsor, check them out in the description, it's the best way to support this podcast.

First is calm, a meditation app, second is inside tracker, a service I used to track my biological data, third is on it, a nutrition supplement of fitness company. Fourth is Grammarly, a service I use to check spelling, grammar and readability, and fifth is Roka, my favorite sunglasses and prescription glasses. So, the choice is health, eloquence, or style. Choose wise than my friends. And now, onto the full ad reads. As always, no ads in the middle, I try to make these interesting, but if you skip them, please still check out the sponsors. I enjoy their stuff.

Maybe you will too. This show is brought to you by Calm, a meditation and mental wellness app. Over 100 million people around the world use Calm to take care of their minds. You may hear, in my voice, a bit of a melancholy tone. I've been going through some rough times.

That's how life is. There's ups and downs. Sometimes it's just even throughout the day, hour to hour, minute to minute. And you just gotta write it. Sometimes during a bit of the low times, you have to do an ad read like I'm doing now. And it's all okay, it's all great

And I think guided meditation meditation in general is a great way to reflect on that up and down of life to breathe to find yourself to find your breath to find your mind in the time of trouble and the time of chaos, and the time of sadness, and the time of ecstatic bliss, to find a calmness. Anyway, if you go to calm.com slash Lex, you get a limited time offer 40% off a calm premium subscription, which includes hundreds of hours of programming. Once again, that's column.com slash Lex. Com like c-a-l-m.com slash Lex. This show is also brought to you by Inside Tracker, a service that used the track biological

data. They have a bunch of plans, most of which include a blood test, they give you a lot of information that you can then make decisions based on. They have algorithms that analyze your blood data, DNA data, and fitness track are data to provide you with a clear picture of what's going on inside you and offer your science-based recommendations for positive diet and lifestyle changes. Andrew Huberman talks a lot about it. He uses it. He recommends it. David Sinclair as well. They actually had a conversation together recently on the human-man-lap podcast that you should definitely listen to.

Anyway, in terms of Inside Tracker, I love this idea, it feels like the future. Why the heck would you be making decisions for your lifestyle, for your health, based on kind of generic population data? It should be based on your unique longitudinal data measured over time. It's obvious, and it's sad that it's not done, why it's spread, and it's obvious to me that's going to be done in the future, so inside trackers, the right tool to sort of step into the future with. For a limited time, you can get 25% off the entire inside trackers store if you go to inside tracker.com slash Lex, that's inside inside tracker.com slash Lex, that's inside tracker.com slash Lex.

This episode is brought to you by on it, nutrition, supplement and fitness company. They make alpha brain, which is a new tropic that helps support memory, mental speed and focus. I use it as a boost when thinking through a difficult problem. When stepping into a deep work session, I use it as a boost when thinking through a difficult problem when Stepping into a deep work session and I know it's going to be an especially Whether it's designed whether it's programming whether it's thinking through a difficult problem if I know it's going to be a rough one And by rough, I mean there's a lot of dead ends. We have to go down a There's a lot of dead ends. We have to go down a particular trajectory, and then there's going to be a dead end,

and you have to backtrack. That's just such a frustrating process. So to maintain focus, to maintain clarity of thinking and a patience, it just helps me to take an alpha brain in those cases. I don't rely on it. I take it when I need that extra super boost. Clear the mind, house maintain focus.

Anyway, go to lexfreedman.com slash on it to get up to 10% off alpha brain. That's lexfreedman.com slash on it. This show is brought to you by Grammarly, a writing assistant tool that checks spelling, grammar, set and structure and readability, Grammarly premium, the version you pay for, and then when they really hope you sign up for, offers a bunch of extra features.

My favorite is the clarity check, which helps detect rambling, over complicated chaos that many of us can descend to. Whenever I mention this part, I usually love to bring up James Joyce. One of the greatest writers of the 20th century, the author of Eulissie's and Finnegan's Wake, both books that I've read and understood none of. In contrast, the short stories by James Joyce, I think it's called The Dead. So the dead is the final short story in the book of short stories. It's called the dead Those are understandable and those are brilliant one of my favorite short stories ever is the dead I

Should probably talk about it at some point It has love as jealousy It is that melancholy feeling when you ponder the passing of all the millions lives around you, plus nature. Something about snow and pausing to reflect on life in a melancholy way, Robert Frost with the stopping in the woods in a snowy evening. That's right name. Miles to go before I sleep. Miles to go before I sleep. I remember spending quite a long time interpreting that poem.

It's a powerful one. Anyway, Grammarly is available on basically any platform in major sites and apps. Do more than just spell check, get your point across more effectively like Robert Frost versus James Joyce with Grammarly Premium. Get 20% off Grammarly Premium by signing up at Grammarly.com slash Lex as 20% off at Grammarly.com slash Lex. This show is also brought to you by Roka, the makers of glasses and sunglasses that I love wearing for their design feel and innovation on material, optics

and grips. But most importantly is that they're super sexy. Function is one thing, but sex appeals another. Roku was started by two all-American swimmers from Stanford and was born out of an obsession with performance. Two words I love, obsession and performance. I actually met one of said swimmers, Rob, they have an amazing facility here in Austin. He's an incredible human being. Just I don't know, one of those people that just brings a smile to your face. So much energy. Also, it's just a fun person to work out with. He could just really push it to your limit. Anyway, the sunglasses are designed to be active in. They're extremely lightweight.

The grip is comfortable but strong and the style is classy. So it holds up in all conditions. What I'm wearing is suit or wearing running gear and extreme heat or in the cold I guess you can say but it's not really a winter compared to Boston winter but holds up in all conditions. Check them out for both prescription glasses and sunglasses at roca.com and enter code Lex to save 20% off on your first order. That's roca.com and enter code Lex. This is the Lex Friedman podcast and here is my conversation with Mark Normand. I asked him Dylan about Bukowski first, so let me continue on that tradition and ask you about something that Charles Bukowski said about love. Do we rollin?

Yes. Oh, geez. No, hello, no, nothing. Nope. I thought I was robotic. Bukowski said, love is a fog that burns away with the first daylight of reality. So Mark, normally let me first ask you about love. What are your thoughts about love?

You talk about your relationship quite a bit. Do you think love can last? I do, but I think it's work. Everybody wants love to be this pre-packaged, perfect, euphoric thing, but you got a, it's like a good body, you know. We're all born with a good body, but you got to keep it in shape, and it's the same with a loving relationship. I think you, uh, nobody wants to do the work. That's the problem. You talked about, I think you told a story about being unfaithful to a previous girlfriend or something like that. I think you told a story about being unfaithful to a previous girlfriend or something

like that. I think the story goes that you were drifting apart. Who are you talking to, Bert, Crusher, maybe? You're something like that. Oh, yeah. High school, sweetheart's dated for like 12 years. And then that wasn't love anymore. That was more like a relationship.

That was like, it was comfort. It was routine. And we just slipped into that kind of married life autopilot world. And I tried to break up, I think, and it didn't take. It was one of those things. Our lives are just so baked in.

And then I think I cheated and she caught me and it was ugly and then we went to therapy to try to work it out. But it's much like a car that gets into a wreck. the door just never closes the same. You know what I mean? Yeah, so what are your thoughts about the commitment like outside of love marriage? I think it's an antiquated idea. I think it's kind of silly and unrealistic. And I think we're coming out of that as we get all polyamorous and non-binary and quee fee and all this stuff. I think we're coming out of that as we get all polyamorous and non-binary and kui-fi and all this stuff. I think we're slowly moving away from that.

But I think a lot of the ladies, more majority women like marriage, like the idea of it, like I'm a fiance now or whatever you call it, I'm engaged. And I mean, she is just, woo-woo! Going hog wild. She's loving it. She's got the dress thing, pick a venue, flower, and she, going hog wild. She's loving it. She's got the dress thing, pick a venue, flower, and she's deep in, whereas I feel guilty because I'm just like, ah, geez.

Is it planned already? What's the wedding? She's a good game, I'm just living life. Yeah. It's planned. It's in New Orleans. I'm from there, and it's next year. Are you married? No. Single. Virgin? It's a plan. It's in New Orleans. I'm from there and it's next year.

Are you married? No, single virgin. Of course, yeah, I can't imagine. I bet you'd be great and bad. You're ripped. The best hairline in podcasting. Yeah, I don't know. I haven't tried yet, so we'll have to see. All right, well, let me know. Pretty big hog on you. Yeah, I could see you pecking a crazy, crazy tool downtown. That matters to girls. Apparently, yeah, that's all I hear about. Yeah, I could see you packing a crazy, crazy tool downtown. That matters to girls. Apparently, yeah, that's all I hear about.

Okay, New Orleans, you grew up in New Orleans? Yeah, born and raised. Trimae outside the French Quarter, you ever been? Yeah, don't remember it. Oh, you drink? Yeah, I drink. Of course I drink. I don't know. I can't tell if you have fun. No, not really, but Russian. I mean, Russian, of course, I drink. Of course I drink. I don't know, I can't tell if you have fun. No, not really, but Russia,

not me in Russia, of course I drink vodka, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I gotta know. Okay. Beer was just labeled an alcoholic beverage in 2011. Fun fact. What do you mean?

In Russia. It was just drinks. It was just like apple juice before. It finally got declared legally as an alcoholic beverage. Which means you can regulate it. That kind of thing. I guess so. Yeah. See, that's where your brain goes. Yeah. I just go out of these fucking rustic turns. I didn't even know there's rules about drinking.

Good. I'm learning about Russia from you. So, what's the difficult memory experience from childhood in New Orleans that made you the man you are today. Mmm, I don't know if it made me the man, but, uh, geez, I had a lot of scuffles in the neighborhood with, I was the white kid in the neighborhood. So I was, uh, automatically, the odd man out, the minority, the weirdo, the dork, the dweeb, the honky. So, uh, just a lot of memories of like

getting slapped in the face by guys and just having to take it because there's like five guys there and they'd be like, oh look, you don't even fight back. And you're like, what am I going to do? Hit you and then get beat up by these guys. So a lot of that stuff was a big bummer growing up, got robbed all the time, lost a lot of bicycles, had a bicycle taken from under me, that was pretty brutal. These kids pulled up, you know, they're like 17 and I was 13 and I had a face paint on, like I had a not black face, but I was at a summer camp and I had a rainbow face painted on me, we were helping kids that day. So I let them put paint on me. And so now I'm riding home.

What a mark. What a, what a goober I am. I'm riding home and these guys see me. A mile away. I'm a sitting duck and they go, we can take his bike. He's got a fucking rainbow on his cheek. So they just go, hey, you know, like cutting front end.

They go, let me try your bike. I go, I'm good. I'm good. I knew what they wanted. And they go, let me try the bike and I go, I'm good, I'm good. I knew what they wanted. And they go, let me try the bike. And then just push me and took the bike. The stuff like that was really shaping the insecurity, the self-worth.

Did it, because I've been mugged and I was younger too. Really? Yeah, it changes your view of human nature a little bit. For sure, you go, wow, didn't know people could be this mean. This cool. Yeah. In considering, I'm always worried about it. Did I fart too much?

Am I annoying? Am I pissing this guy off? But what a way to live. Just I want the bike. I'm taking it. Fuck his feelings. For me, that quickly turned into realizing that that's just a temporary phase that those folks are in.

Like, they have a capacity to be good. Sure. For some reason, for me, that was a motivation to see, can we discover, can we incentivize them to find like a better path in life? Like, I wasn't like all, like, I don't know, Gandhi about it. You know, of course, I was pissed and all those kinds of things, but I don't know, it seemed like just the kind of thing you might do when you're younger. Yeah, hope. But this is adult crime, obviously. Yeah, I know, but yeah, exactly. And then it solidifies,

and then you'd be on saving at some point. But it's like there's always an opportunity to make a better life for yourself, to become a better version of yourself. Yeah, and I remember coming home crying with no bike and my mom, my parents were like liberal to a fault. You know where they were like, oh, well, they need it. They're poor kids in the neighborhood.

You're like, all right, but I also have a bicycle that I ride around. And I also like to live in an area that's not just riddled with theft and vandalism, but they were just like, they need it. And then it was a moot point we just moved on. So I remember very young being like, all right, I gotta figure my shit out.

Okay, so you said you were beat up quite a bit, like bullying and stuff. Pushed around, I was never hospitalized or anything, but you know, you get a black guy here and there and a bloody nose, stuff like that. And it was just the outnumbered thing. The violence didn't really bother me, because you're just kids, you're boys.

But it was the predatory, let's get them, we can take him down. He's an easy target. That's what kills you, a mental part. Yeah, until you actually said I didn't realize, I've been in what do you call them scuffles. And there's just one that stands out to me. Where, yeah.

Let's hear it, Fetty. Break it on. And you do jujitsu and all that stuff, right? Yeah, you can see the guns through the suit. Do you like John Wick? All right. Well, I used to have, now you're gonna start making fun of me. I used to have long hair for like a couple of years.

I was in a band playing music and stuff like that. And there was, like most of the fights I've been in were basically one on one, maybe a little bit, like a little extra stuff, but not outnumbered. And this one particular time, I've learned a lot of lessons, but one of them was, there was a fight started between me and this other person. And then his buddies, I guess, were there.

And they, as opposed to like like breaking up or letting it happen. One of them grabbed my hair. It's the first time anybody grabbed my hair in a fight, which I've since then realized that that's actually a really powerful grip and a powerful weapon. Oh, very vulnerable of you. And then my head got pulled back and they pulled me down to the ground.

Like I couldn't do anything. So I remember being exceptionally frustrated. Yes. That was the feeling like I can't do anything here. I'm like trapped. And then they were just like kicking me and hitting me and stuff like that. And the odd numbered part of it, because I was kind of remember that trapped part because I just hated from a fighting grappling perspective. How like the feeling was, this isn't fair. Yes, that's what it is. It's a deep, deep unfairness that you just can't, you can't win the mob wins.

Yeah, the mob wins. Scary stuff. But it makes a man out of it a weird way. They build character, you realize life isn't fair early and you go on from there. So it's something there. and look at you today. They're probably, uh, you know, eating out of a dumpster at a Krispy Kreme and you're here, got eight podcasts.

Yeah. You're doing great talking to giant Titans of the industry. No, I do remember returning home that night. I mean, that you said you were crying. That's really formative. Like, that's the point in which you get to decide, what do I make of this moment? I mean, especially when you're younger, maybe it's not presented to you that way, but like some of the greatest people in history

were bullied in these kinds of ways. And they made something of themselves in this moment. Like, bullied by life in some kind of way. It's like an opportunity for growth. It's weird, but like hardship even in small doses's like an opportunity for growth. It's it's weird, but like hardship, even in small doses, is like an opportunity for growth. Totally. I mean, look at Richard prior. They say he's labeled the best comedian all time, grew up in a whorehouse, watched his mom get plowed by these guys and in the middle of Indiana, I want to say. And just who had a heart of life who sucked dick for drugs all this stuff growing up beat up and

Then the weird thing is sorry, that's my birth control arm and then the the whole world is like trying to get rid of bullying But we still do bullying, but now it's accepted bullying. It's very strange. So you're your proponent of beating kids up Yes, sex with them. All right. But no, I just think it's part of life and it's horrible. It's like rain. You gotta have it. Look, a rainy day is a bummer, you know, but you need it. And I think it's similar to that.

What was your relationship like with your mom, your dad? What are some memorable moments of them? What did you learn from them? Good parents, the giving, thoughtful, a little out to lunch. They were workaholics, so it was hard to get a lot out of them. And my dad was kind of an angry dad. I think he just had like a weird childhood and he's just trying to make it. And he's trying to provide, but it's hard. And we live in this horrible neighborhood and we're getting robbed all the time. Um, so life was kind of coming down on him all the time.

So then he'll take it out on you or whoever he would snap. But great parents, they cared. They put us first. Um, but there wasn't a lot of. I don't see you know, you ever go to a friend's house as a kid and there's like a picture of a ski trip and you're like a ski trip. What the hell is that about?

You know, it was a lot of that. And very smart people, but I don't know how well they were at socializing. So you never like bonded with them like on a deep human level? Like some body, but a rarely deep. Yeah, it was just almost coworker. Hey, cold out. Huh?

What? It's cold out, huh? Oh yeah, like that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got you. Get there a little bit, but it, my parents are done. I hope they never kill this stuff. But they would do a thing where my dad, especially would do a thing where he would,

he knew how to cut you down, right to the bone. And so after a while, you're like, I'm not going to interact with this guy because he can get you so well. One time we were at a, like a Thanksgiving, some kind of family of event and all the cousins are there. And I remember I was holding court. I was a young boy, finding my comedic legs at this weird tumultuous sea we call a family.

And I was killing. And my dad comes out when he goes, what do you hold in court? weird to mulch you a C we call a family and I was killing and My dad comes out when he goes what do you hold in court? And I was like and I felt like I was this big I just who shrunk down He just nailed it because in my head. I'm like I'm holding court looking me I can hold room and he goes what do you what do you hold in court here? Yeah, I don't know the hell do you think you are and I was like he's right I should be holding court who the fuck am I up nobody so Stuff like that was he of that you think?

He wasn't, he wasn't, I don't think he was, but. Do you give parents a pass when they're unaware of the destructive? Like, is it better when they're unaware? Cause it seems like that's the way. That's true. That's the way parents often fail, is they're not intentionally malevolent?

They're just like coolists. Yeah. It's a bittersweet thing. Because you're like, okay, he's not malicious. He's not trying to hurt me. But also, he doesn't know he hurt me. I don't know. It's tough.

Because if he was trying to hurt you, I guess that would be worse. So you're the fully baked Mark Norman cake at this point. What? That's a sweet cake. Do you, um, fruit salad, you know, the sense of self worthy mention. I think in your comedy, there's a sense like you hate yourself. You think? When I listen, I didn't know that came through.

Shit, I was trying to hide that part God damn it. I mean when you like in the privacy of your mind Are you able to love yourself or is it mostly self-hate? Jeez what happened to this podcast? I didn't know it was on mr. or Dr. Phil Dr. Phil I thought we were gonna talk about engineering and and climate change and rockets Phil. Dr. Phil. I thought we were going to talk about engineering and climate change and rockets. We'll get there. Okay. Stars with love goes to rockets. All right. I like that. I like that's a t-shirt. I mean, like, what's the question? Sorry. Do I have to love? No, no, like, I love myself. Yeah, yeah. So are you like this engine of being self-critical, of just being constantly anxious about how the world perceives you, these kinds of things.

Is this something that you just go to for comedy or is this who you are as a human being? I think I don't want to explore it. I think I get around it. You know, I tap dance around it, but I get it out a little with my act, maybe, because I can't do it. I'm not doing it in real life. So I'll get out this no love, not loving myself. I don't know who wants to love themselves.

Everybody always like, you gotta love yourself. And then when you meet somebody who does love yourself, you're like, I fucking hate this guy. Don't you hate the guy who's upset? I'm great. I'm awesome. Life is good. You're like, ah, this guy sucks. I'd rather an insecure guy.'s upset. I'm great. I'm awesome. Life is good.

Like, ah, this guy sucks. I'd rather an insecure guy. So maybe I want to stay insecure. Maybe I don't want to find this love for myself. Well, okay. So self-love, like, just appreciating who you are, like, appreciating the moment of being grateful doesn't have to express itself by the guy saying, I'm awesome. True. It's more just like humility,

just like walking calmly through the world and just being grateful to be alive, that kind of thing. And just, and like, oh, being appreciative of all the accomplishments that you made so far. I say all this because mostly I'm extremely self-critical and everything I do. And so, and I kind of enjoy it.

I think it's a nice little engine that it makes it fun. It makes life fun, because it's like, if you hate everything you do, like you've done in the past, that gives you like, all right, we can do better. Yes, but that's the key is making itself critical. I always try to get better, I get changes, I get to eat this, I get to improve this.

When you just go, I hate that I do this, I suck, and you just shut down. So that's the key is always being productive with the criticism. Yeah, and the basics of life, I'm just like grateful for it to be alive. That's nice to be coupled by a couple of that with the subcriticism.

Again, the hairline, the hog, the muscles, the world, you got a good brain on you. I mean, you're lucky, you're in the top, you know, most people on you. I mean, you're lucky. You're in the top, you know, most people are fat as shit at Burger King right now hitting their kids. Yeah. You're in a, a Ramada hotel sitting with, you know, a low level comedian.

For the record, I ate McDonald's last night. Oh, all right. Well, you're human. Well, just, you know, this is not me defending. I'm not sponsored by McDonald'solls, but I mostly meet. And there's nothing wrong with the beef they have. It's actually one of the easiest ways late at night. I think it's two.

Two. I don't know if it's actually. It's it's actually rats. Yeah, you're right. But hey, it's just me. I'm a meat guy myself. They say in 20 years, we're going to look back and go, okay, leave people eight meats,

all because I'm gonna be like slavery. Yeah, there's some ethical, difficult things with factory farming. Yeah, so let's ride it out now, we still got it. And now it's unrecorded. Tom Wates says something about New York. You like Tom Wates? I think he's underrated.

I think he's got great. He's got a great, he's great equips and quotes. Check him out on YouTube. He's got some montages and supercuts of him being hilarious. What does he say about, I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. That was the one.

That was the one that sold me. I was like, this guy's awesome. Yeah, but his music is just a genius musician. Yeah. Anyway, he was talking about New York as walking around these, I'm in New York right now, we're in New York right now. It's still a magical city to me. A lot of people are quite cynical about it about the state of things, but not like Michael Malice, like a lot of friends of mine, they're just a lot of folks in San Francisco in New York There's something about the pandemic where people have become quite cynical about the place they are and they try to escape

It's interesting. I mean, they're asking some difficult questions about what they are in life. They're having like a Self-imposed midlife crisis is good I think for everybody to go through this process, but I think I hope New York re-emerges It will as the flourishing place for the weirdos. Anyway, the Tom Wade said New York, of course, is to be in endless surreal situations where a $50,000 gun metal Mercedes pulls up in a puddle of blood and outstuffs a 25 karat blonde with a $2 wristwatch and he goes he keeps going on so like it's like that's like bars he's like a rap yeah he's good but basically just the absurdity of it all lots of money lots of weirdos degenerates and dreamers and the whole the whole mix of it do you think

and dreamers and the whole mix of it. Do you think, do you think that's an act to create description of what New York is today? Like, is there still place for the weirdos and just the interesting artists, the edgy, the comedians, the creators, the entrepreneurs, as opposed to Wall Street, as opposed to like Wall Street, as opposed to like Rich folk, and then like Hopeless folk. Yeah, I think it's definitely changed a lot. There's a tiny corner for us weirdo artists.

New York used to be where you went to make it as a painter or whatever a comedian or a singer. And there were all these dives and shit boxes and all these places you could go. And now there's more pink berries and shit boxes and all these plays you could go and now there's a now it's more pink berries and Subway sandwiches and chase banks. So It's definitely lost a lot of its Creative edge. It's just money money keeps coming in and now you see all these comedians moved in Nashville Austin Denver whatever so

It doesn't have the power it used to have like you got you gotta be here. If you wanna make it, that's definitely gone. So that hurt the city a lot. The city is way more soulless. When I moved here in 07, I mean, not only did I get mugged three times in the first year, but it was a hub of like, it felt like things were happening here, you know? It was an energy, it was electricity,

and we still have the electricity, but it's also maybe just because it's Times Square. There's Soho, there's Wall Street. So we got the staples, but there is a little bit of that. It's almost like a marriage. Like, yeah, we're in love, but it's not as passionate as it once was. That's how I would equate New York.

What gives you hope, you're pretty hopeful about it though. I'm hopeful just because I know it's magical and I think it has to be. I mean it's the epicenter of America like this is where the immigrants came and this is where the stock market is and the entertainment industry a lot of it is here. So I think it's it's gonna happen but it something like the bottom has to fall out and then people have to move back here and all that so something The corporations are kind of fucking us. They're just buying everything. Well, that's true for everything This true for Austin probably as well people just buying out land and all that kind of stuff You always hear a Hemingway and Dalie and all these guys went to Paris In the 20s or whatever that was

Yeah, I get it now. I feel like why do these guys go to Paris? You know, why do these artists? And now I get it because it's like, it's freer there. That's why Austin became like that Paris, where everybody's like, I gotta get out of LA, I'm going there. And maybe when we came back from that, you know, the 70s were wild and 90s were cool. So maybe it'll come back, I'll just take a decade.

Well, there's always, that's how stories are told. There's always pockets of like Paris within New York. Right? True. There's just an opportunity to let your weird flourish is there in New York, I'm sure. They're the mean, it's there. You got to find it before it was front and center.

What's your favorite thing about New York? Like what kind of things just like, I mean, how long does it pot? I could go on. It's too much to put into one hour. We've got other questions, but I love that one neighborhood is wildly different than the next. I mean, literally, and then you take four steps

now I'm in Chinatown. I mean, literally, and then you take four steps now I'm in Chinatown. I mean, and then the history there, and then the stories, and the food, and the culture, and all that. And then you go 10 feet over here, and now you're in Brooklyn, and this is insane. It's the whole of the world, and it's almost like a little America in one,

you know, a city, and it's great. And just the fact that they pulled it off like Fifth Avenue goes way up and you're like there's a billionaire's house next to a hobo And then this is a black guy who's fighting with a Cuban guy and an Asian guy's trying to get in the middle of them and the cabbies from the Middle East and There's so many beautiful women here and there's so many brilliant minds here and the pace is great It keeps you all moving. I mean it just You can't beat it. I'm in the city will fucking the ass too. Don't get me wrong. You landed JFK and you're like, oh god

I got mugged my my uber driver called me a homo. I stepped in human shit. Where the fuck am I? So yeah, it's it's bad news, but that bad news. It's almost like the bullying So yeah, it's bad news, but that bad news, it's almost like the bullying. It kills you in a weird way, but it makes you stronger and you build more layers and layers and layers. That's why some new guy, some hasty from Milwaukee shows up. You've been here 10 years and you go, let me help you out, because you got to adjust. You're gonna get your ass kicked for like six months, but I know the ropes a little, and I think you need a little that. If the treadmill's not on, you're not gonna run.

New York, the treadmill's on. So it just makes you run, and it makes you better. And look at where's on you. You probably lose 10 years of your life living in New York versus Indianapolis, but it's a better life. Have you seen 25th hour?

Yeah, inan while. Spike Lee joint. Yeah, Spike Lee joint. I mean, at Norton, there's a whole like monologue there about. Oh, that's right. But they're talking about just, he has like a mix. There's like melancholy music, I think, or just a melancholy feel to the whole thing,

but there's an anger and a disgust with the city. Yeah. But through the anger and the disgust comes out like a love for the city. The same with, was taxi driver in New York? Oh, yeah. It's going crazy. Yeah. So like that, there's something about the, what is that? What is that, that, that grit of the city that like pushes you down.

Well, that's the beauty of the city is it's this tribal human nature, like the sex shops and fist fights and racism and all's tension, but yet it's the epicenter of technology and finance and sophistication on Fifth Avenue. So you get that juxtaposition. It's kind of like in Boston. You go to Boston, they got MIT, they got Harvard,

they got all this shit, and then they got the fishermen, the blue collar douchebags, the Irish guys, the immigrants, you know, and you get that mix of like, insanely smart with wicket pissa and these, these two worlds, and that's a good thing. It's like when a black guy fucks an Asian lady, that's a good looking kid. You get a mix.

You know, we're mixing two totally different things are coming together and it makes it. It's like peanut butter and chocolate. Peanut butter and chocolate, I've never tried that. What? Peanut butter, maybe I have some of Reese's, man. Like Reese's, yeah, and yeah, yeah. The best candy.

Yeah. Without the fakeness of LA without the without the kind of With the facade. Yeah, LA stuff What's the difference between L.A. Comedy and New York comedy, too? Mmm. I think one place you kind of go to make it and be discovered and Be loved and one place you go you, you can get all that in New York too. But I think in New York, it's more of a, a school, a bootcamp of comedy. Let's make great comedy. Let's make original comedy. Let's watch the other guys and gals who are at

the show at the clubs and learn from them and try to hang out with them and absorb some of them. And in LA, it's like, when am I on, I'm next, get out of my way. I'm the star here. I'm a bigger star than you. Oh, this guy's actually a big star. I got to out work. It's just a lot of that instead of like, damn, that was funny. I got to be that funny.

Damn, Oshay did joke. And look, I don't want to speak for LA comics because there's Bill Burr and the Jezzlinac, there's brilliant LA comics, but they all cut their teeth in New York, the same, then they moved to LA. It's a good point. Ali Wong, all these people, killer comics, but New York started New York, moved to New York.

There is something about comics that stay in New York for a long time though, like David Tell. Oh, you know about Dave? Yeah, he wants to do this podcast. He does. Yeah, I'm a huge fan of David. Wow.

But it's like, he almost like he doesn't want to make it. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, you probably know him, but like, it feels like you just, maybe it's romanticizing him, but you're like, you almost just love the art of comedy of like becoming funnier, crafting the jokes, becoming funnier than the other comics, like competing with each other kind of thing, not over like money or fame or any of that, just purely the comedy of it.

Totally, that's Dave, that's him and a nut. He's like that guy in the movies in the 80s, action movies where they're like, they go up to a creek in Montana and some guys live in the cabin and he's sharpening a stick and they go, the Russians are coming, they're invading, we need you, you're the best commando. And he's like, I gave that up, man. I'm done with that lifestyle. They're like, well, you're the best. We need you. And he has

to suit up eventually. You know, he looks at a picture of his dead wife and he goes, fuck it. I'm going. And then they, you know, fight the Ruske's. But he's that guy. He just is gifted. He's like got a gift from Allah. and he's the best. Yeah, a lot of comics given props. They're so surprising to me because he hasn't really made it like big as it in the 90s. He was huge. He had his own TV show. He was the show that show was awesome. But I mean like as big as I think he deserves to be. So I well, that's art. The mainstream shit is always the worst. It's like McDonald's versus some hole in the wall. I know I'm shit, no McDonald's again, but it's good.

And you know, certain comics we get name or good, but the delicacy is gonna be less talked about unless household namey than the mainstream hacky shit. Yeah, it's funny because he hasn't I think it was on Joe Rogan's show once maybe. Yeah, once a tour. And he was with somebody else. Jeff Ross? Yeah, he might have known Jeff Ross.

Oh, yeah, because they did that like two mics thing. Oh, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. But he's the quickest guy. There's no one funnier. Yeah. Yeah, him and you're super quick.

Your appearance, I don't know, recent appearance, I don't know what it's called. Oh, thanks. Just so fast. You're wrong with the Ari and Shangulous. Shangulous. Yeah, that was fun. We're going back in January.

Yeah, I know what this comes up. This never come out. Neither will you. We're having fun. Yep. All right. So what does it feel like to bomb in stand-up comedy, like to fail? Maybe the psychology of it first.

Like, just take me through it because we're talking about being outnumbered in a fight, just being beat up. Very similar. like just take me through it because you were talking about being Outnumbered in a fight just being beat up very similar By the way, this is like a no eye contact off. Yeah, you know, I like Great, it's kind of nice to be with my people But yeah, you should have paper to look at her. I'm going. I got a good sweet spot right there. Yes. Yeah, it's a nightmare, but it's part of it. You know, it's, it's the, it's the validation too is the worst part.

Like, because you know, whenever you do comedy and kill, you can be a great comic, but even David Telly's brilliant guys, they feel like they're getting, you feel like you're getting away with something. I don't have a day job. I'm telling jokes for a living. I'm talking about my dick up here and they're fucking loving me and they call me as a genius at all this I'm talking about my sack, you know, and and it's great. It makes people happy and it's funny, but That bombing when you bomb you go your first thought is like yeah, you're right. Yeah, first you're like

Fuck you guy what you don't like this shit and then you just start going in you're like, maybe it isn't that good Maybe they're right. I do suck. I knew I sucked. I should become a male man, you know, and it stinks and it feel you feel alone And you feel like you wasted their time and then you're like, what was I thinking I could be a comedian? What the fuck am I, you know any Murphy? What am I doing here? So it's a lot of just spiraling out of horrible thoughts am I doing here? So it's a lot of just spiraling out of horrible thoughts, but I also love that it hurts so bad. Bombing fucking hurts because now now everybody doesn't do it. I think a lot more people could do comedy probably and figure it out, but the bombing is so brutal that it keeps a one time I went to Minneapolis. I was like, this is a great city. I mean, it's sun is shining. Why isn't the city like packed? And they're like, because the winners are so bad and we love it,

because it keeps everybody out. And I feel like it's saying about comedy. The bombs are so brutal. I've had bombs where I'm in the, I'm in bed. I'm just staring at the ceiling. Like, what the fuck was that? Like you have PTSD. I bombed it in a arena once, 20,000 people. I did 30 minutes to silence. I guess it's not just like one joke fails. It's like, they start piling on like it's irrecoverable. Yes. And one joke failing is very common. Like a lot of audience don't even notice like that bomb. You know, you got so many jokes in a row.

You can say what you go in and then a bad one, then a good one. But when you bomb, it's almost like they chose, we don't like you. Nothing you say will redeem yourself. And it's hard to get out of. It's like being pulled down by your hair. You can't get back. I can't win this fight no matter what. Can you like get him back by acknowledging like the alphanet room that like that helps

but they're still gonna go. That was funny when he made fun of it but he sucks. He's still sucks. He's still sucks. That's the worst part. You're going, no, this is good. You guys just don't like me. Just because you don't like me doesn't mean I'm bad. Yeah, I like going to open mics a lot just just listening because first of all, I think the audience in the open mic,

at least the ones I've been to is most I guess other comedians is it or like at least people who don't seem to want to laugh at anything. And so I just love it because it's human nature and perseverance that is best. Here's comedians, like clearly, this is mostly in Austin, they have a dream. Like why would you get up there? Right. Like maybe some weird, you know, New Year's resolution bullshit, but for the most part, it's people who want to be comedian. Like a lot of the open-micres that people who have clearly have done this for quite a long time

are like at least a year or two, maybe five years, and they're often not very funny. And the just bombing in front of an audience of like 20 where they're just sitting there like Almost like mocking them with their eyes or maybe And I don't know and they still push through they still they still like as if they're doing an arena and everybody's laughing Yes, they still they still got that energy trying almost like to an audience Yeah, they still they still got that energy trying almost like to an audience That doesn't exist like an audience of their dreams because I guess that you have to do that to keep the energy of the act going And it's just so beautiful to watch them try it

It's a and also the what happens open mic. I don't know five minutes. Whatever they do They you know walk off and that walk back, you know, off stage. And like, you can't, who do they look at? Like, what do you look at? Do you make eye contact with people? Do you? You look at your phone, you look at your feet, you just zone out. You kind of, you kind of go white, you know, you just hear white noise and go out.

It's tough. But you got it. You need a little, a you need a little delusion to be a comedian. To get into it, it takes a little bit of delusion. Like, you think you can do this, you know, you got 10 years ahead of you of hell and you're up for this. And, you know, most comics, we see a horrible crowd and we see our friend bomb and we go, yeah, he's bomb him, but I'll get him. I'll get him. I'll get him. And then you don't get him.

But that's human nature too. It's like, they don't like him, but they'll like me. And you need a little of that to keep going as a comedian. But you don't want too much delusion because then you're a psycho. But you need a little. Well, the psycho could be good for a comedy. That's true too, let me say your do. I mentioned to you off line

that talked to Elon and we talked about doing stand-up that he's thinking maybe do a few minutes of stand-up. I'm saying if you need a coach, Elon, I gotcha. Well, maybe you should move to Austin to coach him full time. Hopefully he can fly me in. So what advice would you give to somebody who wants to try to do five minutes? Like the early steps of trying to go to an open mic and say something funny. Well, that's the irony of comedy is I don't know if it's irony, but it's like the beginning is the hardest part. Usually the beginning is easy part. Hey, I'm playing this level of Mario.

Let's start a jump over one Koopa trooper, whatever. And then the end is like, Jesus Christ, I got 30 guys coming at me. Comedy's the opposite. The beginning is like, it's a gauntlet. It's just obstacles. And it's like you said, open mics. I watch these famous comedians on Netflix and you go, this would all bomb an open mic. They're killing in, you know, radio city. This would bomb an open mic. That's the weird part. So it's almost like you have to go through hell just to get to the promise land. And I would say rehearse the shit out of it

because you're gonna get frazzled up there. Everybody thinks, oh, this is a good material. But you also forget about the other part of delivering it, having confidence, being likeable, having timing, having a cadence, figuring out who you are, figuring out what the audience thinks you are or how they perceive you. Because you can go up there and say all this, but they go, well, that's the guy he's clearly gay.

Why is he actually not gay? You know, that's all there. Now they're not listening to the joke. So like, you got to know how you look. And it's just repetition, repetition. And bombing is not failure. That's what you got to remember. I mean, look, if you do a killer hour and then you take it to Netflix and bomb, you fucked

up. But bombing is not failure. It's just data. It's going, oh, okay, I got to retool that. That didn't work. Something wrong there. I missed a word there. So you got to treat the act almost like like like ingredients in a

Cooking in a dish, you know like oh that I put too many eggs in taking egg out You got a treat like that and look when you pull a bad cake out of an oven You go I fucked up but it doesn't hurt your feelings But when you bomb and fuck up it hurts your feelings So you got a fact of that and two your's gonna be hurt and just almost be a robot and just keep going towards that open mic. You know, scary an open mic is bombing suck but bombing in front of other comedians is way worse

because they know what just happened and they could have saved you and they didn't. So it's way worse. And they're gonna be your quote unquote friends. But for this journey. Yeah, no, these are evil people. Twisted fucked up. What people?

Can you tell, like in those early days, let's just talk about that, like the open mic level that a joke is gonna be good on paper. Like I'll give you my experience because maybe you can be my coach in this particular moment. So like Larry Nasser. That's fun. You're okay, everybody.

Open up. I'm not having an amazing team of folks who help me with editing and they're now currently sweating. You got to leave that one in. That was quick. That's pretty good. to leave that one in. That was quick. Yeah, that's pretty good. I'll leave that one. That was good.

All right. So, going in front of an audience, just even to give a lecture terrifies me, which I've done. But open mic, I mean, that to me, perhaps that's why I like going to open mics and listening is because I just, it terrifies me so much, that to me, perhaps that's why I like going to open mics and listening is because I just It terrifies me so much that idea. Yeah of Going up there and bombing and me is scary and to do even like one minute to be honest is scary in five minutes I'm also

Wash enough open mics to realize that five minutes is a long time. I mean depends on your comedy But if you're doing fast stuff, five minutes is a really long time. Oh, it's eternity. I guess it was a long story, two is a long time because if the story's not worth, you're building up to something. If the story's gonna fail,

you just spent all that time telling the story that completely went flat. Completely. Got nothing. I guess if you have a series of jokes, you can at least try to recover and do the Mitch Headburg thing where, all right, I'll cross that off. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm able to, like, I've tried to write a few things and I'm able to tell that it's

really bad. Like, better than most. Most people's egos kick in and go, no, this is good. Now, see, I'm able to introspect that. Like, it seems funny. I mean, I guess the thing I'm looking for is original. Like, there's easy stuff that you think is funny, but to me, originality is the thing you should be looking for because then that's what's actually becomes funny.

Or rather, if it's original, even if it bonds, that feels like more a beautiful art creation that you did. At least you swung for it. You did something unique. Even with open mic, your first five minutes, there's so many, just go to enough open mics, you'll hear like all, there's like a list of jokes that you just go to. First of all, you can make fun of the fact

that you're at an open mic that you're doing this the first time and so on. You can do a lot of stuff where you make fun of your appearance in some way and so on. But like yeah, you could do that, that takes actually, that's way harder than people realize to do it in an original way. Yes.

To present who you are as a person very quickly, enough to then put that person down in front of everybody else. So you have to reveal the... The audience is like that because they go, he knows what we're thinking. Yeah, exactly. But do it again in an original way. And so like when I'm trying to write stuff, not that I've tried long, it's like 30 minutes. But as enough to see like, oh shit, to write something original is really difficult.

It is. But do you got a bit, anything? No, I don't. You didn't write any one line or anything? For this? No. Well, just in general, ever in your life, ever written a joke? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, anything? No, I don't. You didn't write any one line or anything? For this? No. Well, just in general, ever in your life, ever written a joke? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, okay. No, but I don't have anything in my mind popped up. So the jokes that I've written have more, like for some reason my mind goes to like dark places. So, you know, like, and not actually dark in the Mark Norman dark because you go really dark to where it's like almost absurd. Yes. My natural inclination is to go to like a dark historical like place like Hitler and Stalin.

Yeah. And almost go to that place and then Talk about something absurd there. So like don't go like Like all the way. I don't know. I don't want to give examples because it'll be clipped but But the mark normal style look it up. He has a special on his YouTube But the Mark Norma style, look it up. He has a special on his YouTube. That kind, I want to almost explore the dark aspects because his human nature more connected

to actual historical figures. That's the inclination. Like I don't know, nature's metal, the Instagram channel that explores like the darkness of nature, like something there. That's good that you already know that you've kind of gotten to the core of nature. Yes. Like something there. Uh-huh. See, that's good that you already know that you've kind of gotten to the core of your comedy already. And that's interesting.

That's a step ahead. Yeah, I can hear, I'm with most things that I do in life, I can like hear the music from a distance like in myself. Like, okay, if you have anything, this is the direction it'll be. Yeah. Without actually knowing exactly all the steps. That's a nice motivation to be like, all right, well, if you do this for a long time,

maybe you'll have a chance to get there. But you have to, that's where it's a feature to be super self-critical, I think. Yes. But then that's why it's fucking terrifying to walk up to a stage, stand there, and probably forget everything. Yeah, that's the other part nobody thinks about just goes right out of your head. You go fight or flight. It's ugly.

My first years were horrific bombing, horrific stammering, horrific not remembering the punchline. Like, you got to maybe you got a set up going and they're kind of on board and you're like, ah, how's that camera? I camera out goes and you just hate yourself. It's a nightmare. But you've already kind of, maybe you haven't done stand-up or whatever, you kind of know your voice.

And that's, yeah, that's pretty advanced. So you're not trying to be somebody else. I guess, yeah, just for having done like podcast and lecture and so on. That helps. You've already done some of the work of the stand-ups do, which is embarrass yourself in front of others for prolonged periods of time.

Yes. Yeah, so I've done that without actually developing the funny. Right, right, right. But maybe the funny just is not that difficult to develop, you know, it's super difficult, of course, but I mean, maybe the essential work of a stand-up comedian is just the embarrassment of like finding who you are. Yeah, that's a part of it for sure.

You know, in the beginning, you're like, water bottle. What's funny about water bottle? I'm a funny guy, I can make this funny, but that ain't, that's not it, you know? It's, it's your shit, your shit, like your dark stuff for me. I tend to gravitate towards dark, but in a weird way where, you know, people will say like, Hey, don't objectify women. But then they go, Caitlin Jenner is beautiful. And you're like, well, wait, I know something's off here. Why can't you objectify her, but not the supermodel?

So what's going on there? And I like to play with that. So I have this joke where I say, Caitlin Jenner, oh, women go, Caitlin Jenner is beautiful, beautiful woman. I go, well, you look like her and they go, fuck you. And you're like, there's a lot of truth there. But I like exploring that kind of, oh, you're trying to get one over on me or you're lying yourself or what are we doing here? And I like, I like that kind of comedy. I don't see color. Well, I'm black. No, you're not. You, you know, that's fun because you're you're lying. Yeah, you okay. So like big time comedians, it's just yourself don't like to think of yourself in this way.

But yeah, this is like where you overfill a philosophized comedy. But yeah, definitely. It seems like comedians don't say important. Nothing worse than a comedian who thinks they're important. Yeah. So I was going, I was trying to find, as I was trying to say, these words that we realized how cliche it is and how uninteresting it is. So I'm going to just, but there is something.

I'm worried this whole thing is uninteresting. I'm like, who cares about comedy? There's like six comics on the planet. But nobody cares. Okay. This is just, I trust you in the, in the pilot's seat. You know what you're doing. You got, you got listeners.

They've tuned out long ago. Oh, you'll get Dan Carlin on here, huh? You see it around? Yeah. We just go back and forth on Twitter. Just now as a huge fan. He was on here before. He'll be back.

He's great. I've been actually really trying to volunteer myself aggressively with Dan Carlin for like a Russian episode where I could speak Russian. There's certain documents saying, I talked with Joko about this too. Certain things, I mean, I just love the challenge of bringing Russian documents that I can read in Russian and then can translate and can try to capture the depth of the writing in the Russian language and communicate to the American audience. So much is lost in translation, like there's so much pain and poetry in the Russian language, it's just connected to the culture. Every language, not every language, but many languages are

every language, not every language, but many languages are uniquely able to capture the culture of the people. I mean, in some way, they're the representation of the culture of the people. And so, Russian is definitely that. It represents the full history and culture of the 20th century with all the atrocities, all the broken promises, all those kinds of things. Norm says Russian literature is the most tapped into human existence than anything else. Norm McDonald. Yeah.

Big Russian literature guy, Dusty Eskiy, all that shit. It's funny that there is a gap of comedians too. There's a culture of Russian comedy, like a stand up comedian that are told. They're told that. Yeah, yeah. I don't know these Russians. I mean, I don't know these Russians.

I mean, I don't know today. I mean, more from the 80s and 90s. So there's a... Yeah, Kov. No, I know. So there's like a force. I've never seen that offended. No, no, it's not offended.

There's a different... There's like the Kinesens and the edgy. Is that Russian? What do you mean? I thought you said there was Russian comics. Yeah, Russian, I mean, I'm comparing that. I'm giving you, I'm giving you like a style, a darkness, like that's the kind of people

that kind of challenge. They give again, this is to home important comedians are, is they give a voice to people where in the Soviet Union, you really can't like express your opposition to the government. And so comedians are exceptionally important there for just, just, I don't know, channeling the anger, even once sometimes it's not the actual opposition to the government, they're just channeling the anger, the frustration with the absurdity of life. Like, you know, when there's a shortage of food, shortage of

jobs, the absurdity of the bureaucracy, like the top-heavy government, just all of that can only sometimes be expressed with like dark, absurd humor. And that actually, why there's a culture of that kind of humor, you know, you get around the table with vodka. Yeah. And all you can do is just talk shit and just be offensive, say horrible shit, ball bust. I mean, I make school shooting jokes and people go, how do you do that? I'm like, well, maybe that's how I deal with it. Yeah.

You know, like, how come I gotta, I gotta empathize the way you do. Maybe we're different. All right, so now let's skip the whole open mic thing and crafting jokes. Oh, that's tough. Kerak said, one day I will find the right words and they will be simple.

When do you know the joke is done? It's perfect. You're somebody that does like really sharp, like fast jokes. Wow, thanks. So like there's somebody, I don't know, I don't know who you see yourself in the same school as like had your, your, your darker and faster than headburg, I think in terms of like just, I don't know, the turns you take are very,

thanks, I appreciate it. I think I got some Norma Donald and maybe you know, obviously norm, but Chris Rock was huge for me. Chris, old like 90s Chris Rock was like, I didn't know you could do jokes like, I always love George Carlin and Groucho Marx and Bill Murray. There's so many different types of comedy, but when I saw the bigger and blacker bring the pain, I was like, oh my God, this is like, it hit me.

So that was big and then Norm's just like the funniest guy on the planet. So that was big and then Norm's just like the funniest guy on the planet. So him being the smartest guy in the room but acting dumb was great. So yeah, Chris Rock is that way of cutting to the bullshit which I mentioned earlier, I like that cutting through the bullshit kind of style of comedy

because you kind of go, oh I'm not crazy. That's what I thought too. I was too scared to say but I thought that and he's saying in a room of go, oh, I'm not crazy. That's what I thought too. I was too scared to say it, but I thought that and he's saying it in a room of people are laughing. Maybe I'm not an idiot. So that helped me. So it's observational, but not Jerry's sign of observational. It's like look going to the darker thing.

Yeah. It was inside. But I like him too, but seeing it doing it about stuff like in your life, society. Yeah, race, gender, government, politics, all that kind of stuff. Exactly, exactly. Sex, human emotions, jealousy, whatever it is.

That's the good stuff. How'd you feel when Norm passed away? Nah, that was a bummer because he was, you know, what, 61 and I just didn't see it coming and I just watched so many hours of his stuff and I met him and he's like, he was like this comedic bar. Like, hey, we got norm, you know, there's so much shit comedy then you see norm and you're like,

this is next level, this is Savant type shit. And then to lose him is like, ah, Norm had 20 more years at least of just content and content and thoughts and his point of view, and that's, we'll never get that. That sucks. Yeah, there is something about artists, like Jim Hendrix dying too early. It's like, you wonder.

What was next? Yeah, what was next. But then part of it is like, you know, it's really, it's like, you wonder. What was next? Yeah, what was next. But then part of it is like, you know, it all ends for all of us and it's like walking away early is kind of admirable. It's almost like I did a pretty good job. Yeah. I'm good with that. And especially the way he did, which is not telling anybody.

I know! Nine years, his best friends didn't even know. And in this world of like, victimhood, and I need clicks, and I need people to love me, he could have, we got, you know, canceled and yelled at and trouble, and he could have pulled that cancer card and he never did. I mean, the integrity on this motherfucker. Did you get a chance to interact with him like, what, how often do you meet him? I met him once at the Comedy Cellar seller and we chatted for five minutes and then he went on and did

the the letterman set that he did he was running the letterman set and sweet guy nice guy didn't know him that well but I mean he's just brilliant and I also love a brilliant guy who does stupid stuff. That's a fun little combo there. Like silly guys who are actually brilliant also. You know, like Louis CK is a brilliant comic and he'll do a joke about farting on a kid. And you're like, that's great that he still finds Farts funny and he's also this comedic genius guy.

I like that. And it doesn't really acknowledge the genius. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like smart people there, silly. Yes, that's a good combo. Like you said, Elon is silly. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. Because we taught, we teach kids like, hey, put that down, stop that, quit cutting up, quit horse and around. But maybe that's some kind of sign of brilliance there. Yeah. Being like, childlike and silly is a kind of wisdom. I feel like those people are way wiser than the people that no offense to me wear a suit and take themselves way too seriously. But you got to spark in you. You're, you got a little, what's the word? Not elf.

Imp. Little imp in you. Give that a go. You know what, imp, little imp in you. Give that a go, you know what imp? Yeah, let's look at it. It's like a little, set a Tolkien character, imp. Yeah, my name. And imp is the European mythological being similar to a fairy or a, he called me a fairy.

What? Frequently, no, okay. Similar to a fairy or a demon. Oh, I feel like that's a big leap. Big leap, yeah, that's not a great info bio there. I feel like that's a big leap. Big leap. Yeah, that's not a great info bio there. Frequently described in full-claw and superstition. The word may perhaps derive from the term imp,

but with a Y. You used to denote a young grafted tree. It's a little mischievous. You got a twinkle. You're the serious buttoned up guy, but there's a twinkle. There's a twinkle. And the audience can see the up guy, but there's a twinkle. There's a twinkle. And the audience can see the twinkle, and that's why he resonated, I think.

I'm sorry. Deep analysis by Mark Norman, psychological analysis. Okay, but then back to the crafting of the joke, you said Chris Rock and Norman Donnell, what for you, how do you know when the joke is done? Are there some jokes when you're like, are proud of like, wow, that's well done. Yeah, yeah, the joke is done.

It's a tough question because there's so many different kinds of jokes. There's what we call a chunk, which is a big idea with a bunch of jokes in the middle of it and then a big crescendo at the end. Or there's a one liner, or there's a tag of a joke that's also a joke. So the jokes come in different, like I have a joke where I say, I met my girl in that Jewish app. What's that Jewish app called? PayPal.

That's the rest you want from the other crowd. But it's a fun turn because you say your thing and then I hit you with a misdirect. And that's what a joke is. A joke is basically me saying something that makes sense, but you didn't see it coming. Yeah. And that's a perfect example of that. So that joke took forever to figure out, by the way, you know, and you have to go to different services like PayPal. Like what's funniest? Exactly, and I figured PayPal is funny because it has a word pay in it. Yeah.

You know, Venmo, it's also not really a good word, Venmo PayPal, it just hits better. Yeah, PayPal is funny or some more? It's funny or some other, and that's the beauty of common. There's a weird little magic into it. You can get technical all day and formulate, but there's still that little bit of a fairy dust

that you don't know why this is funnier. Or imp dust. Imp dust! Yes. With a Y. Okay. So you know what joke is done when it kills and it is a roundness to a joke when you feel like this is buttoned up. This is done here.

Yeah. It's simplicity the right word there. Yeah. Is it like you're chopping stuff where are you adding stuff? Like what does it feel like? Simplicity is always the best Angle I mean you can get real high concept with a joke and still make it work But the simpler the better I saw

Dave Chappelle on stage once and Chris rock and Dimitri Martin were in the back Watching in awe and Dave's well. I can't remember the joke But he said something about sex or women and Dimitri Martin goes, that's a little easy. And Chris Rock goes, that's why it's good. And I remember hearing that as some young comic like, I'm getting this like, you know, comedy lesson right here for these two Titans. And so that was fun. Simple is key.

So the easy is okay. That's such a weird. I think I remember reading or hearing M&M say something about maybe the song some shape, one of the songs. He's like, I knew it was going to be good because it got like really repetitive and annoying very quickly. I mean, that's the sort of the music equivalent of, it's too easy. Like if it's like super catchy, as a musician, you might get very quickly bored of it. Uh, like as you're creating it, not as to, it's too easy. It's like, there needs to be some more complexity to it.

But I like complexity, but the best guys who are the ones who make complex, shit, look simple. Like you ever heard that Ben Franklin story where he's talking to his friends, I'm gonna start a hat store. So he puts a sign out, says, hats for sale, $12. And Ben Franklin looks at it,

he goes, well, you don't need the $12, because all they need to know is that you got hats for sale. He's like, all right, so he loses the $12, makes a new sign, hats for sale. And he goes, you don't really need for sale because it's a business. People can put that together. So he just goes, all right, it makes a new sign, hats for sale. And he goes, you don't really need for sale because it's a business. People can put that together. So he just goes, all right, he makes a new sign.

It says hats. And then Ben Frank, I was like, you know, you don't really need the word hat. You can just put a picture of a hat. And he made a new sign, which is a picture of a hat and it's like helped the business. There's something, this is like some old lifestyle or whatever, but I think about that all the time

when I'm writing. I thought this was going to like, there was no sign. It went like super like, oh, maybe that could work too. What, like, as a comedian, so I'm a fan of yours, I enjoy, I really enjoy you in conversations. Wow. Because you're now getting nothing out of it. I'm this is, all right, I can't tell. Oh, like a motion. You were your tough nut to read. get nothing out of it. No, I'm just this is all right. I can't tell like a motion. It will.

You're tough not to read cold inside. I mean, just the quickness you have, obviously, you also a great stand up comedian. What's your favorite medium to shine in? So you have a podcast yourself, an excellent podcast. You're often a podcast guest. Yeah. Which is always fun to listen to how you're going to deal with the different people. You're great on Rogan.

Oh, thank you. Um, what, what, what do you enjoy most? Podcasts are great because you can, you can stretch out a little more. You can breathe a little, you know, with a standup set, I like to be like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. But podcasts are great because it's conversational. So you can be, it's almost like you're being funny with your friends. Whereas the stage is like a, this is a piece.

This is a presentation. But I think the podcast is great, but you don't get the reaction. Unless the host is laughing, you can't hear the guy in his car and New Jersey driving a work on, ah! Every now and then I'll read a comment like,

I spit out my coffee when you said this and I'm like, but it's not immediate. You want the immediate. So stand up always be number one, but there's no better feeling than killing in a room of people who don't know who you are. Strangers, you're in the middle of nowhere, you left your wife at home, you left your kids, you left your house, you're in the middle of bum fuck dickville and murdering for these hillbilly nobody whatever it is and they're slinging their beers and woo cheering you on and they carry out and you

fuck some fat lady and you leave and you get back to your hotel and you go holy shit what was that? No one will ever know about it just lost in the ether. That's the best feeling. Yeah. Killing an obscurity is Bill Burwood say. Yeah, this is one of the things that sucks about giving lectures at universities or giving lectures in general is when you look at the audience, several hundred students, they're all have a board look in their face. Yeah, like even like my my face now probably looks bored, but I'm actually excited to be talking to you. But there's something about just, there's something about a comedy club. Maybe this the contingent of laughter, but like it gives people the freedom to just laugh to like, to remove the episode of like, you don't have to pretend like, you don't care.

Like, if you care, you can show it. And you can have fun with it. A lot, probably liquor is helpful too. Yeah. It helps for sure. But there is a, especially, and that's why comedy, I think, is so popular right now, because HR is up our ass. We're scared of old tweets that might come back to Honest.

What did I say on that interview? Ah, even people at offices are like, I put something on Facebook in 1999 that was about fat tits that I liked. Should I get rid of that? Even people say like, there's no cancel, whatever. There is something in the air right now and that wasn't there before.

It's the video, I'm a Karen, I got caught at caught a traitor Joe Whatever it is this people rad on each other now I'm ready to tattle tailing because they want the clicks. It's a horrible Society we've crafted but Stand up comedy gets you to come out and now people do it at stand-up shows too sadly But it gets you to come out and let that inhibition down like because we're all human We've all had the fucked up thoughts like man that guy's fat as shit. It doesn't mean you hate the guy that hate fat people that you're fat shaming but you can't say that at the office you can go up you're fat as shit you'll get fired for body shaming but at the club you go that guy's

fat as shit the crowd goes he is fat as shit and it's this weird cathartic thing because all we do is tamp shit down it's kind of like you ever meet a girl He's like all prim and proper then the bedroom. She's like put a lamp up my ass. Ah, you know, whatever it is It's because we got to get it out. We're all repressed in some way. So I guess what you're saying is comedy is important Call back Play it sir. Yeah, What do you think about Austin? What do you think about the comedy scene? Austin, we'll talk about LA in New York. What do you think about what Joe's trying to create there?

So I should say that the reason I moved to Austin, I have this dream of, I wouldn't be funny if I said this dream would become a comedian. Oh, yeah. An audience at least. Yeah, that's true. You know, I would say you can hear the music in the distance. I, you know, I have this dream around robotics and artificial intelligence, whether it's a company, whether it's something else that was just pulling me to do.

I actually wanted to move to San Francisco and then all my friends in San Francisco said no, it's the wrong place. Yeah. To, uh, it's no, it's at this time, the, the, is just not conducive to like taking big leaps into the unknown, excited about the future kind of thing. And Austin was that, for me in particular with Elon Musk, but also just the energy that everybody had, including Joe, the excitement about the future. I don't care if Austin burns to the ground

and it actually is a complete failure. Being excited about the future seems to be, like optimism about the future. It seems to be the thing that actually makes that future happen. It makes a great future happen. So it's always cool for me to see, like Joe, super excited about creating like a culture in Austin like a making it a comedy hub like yeah I don't want to overstate it but he I mean I think you really

believes it'll be a very big place for comedy in the United States and generally in the world and so just even believing that that's powerful like Like, you start to make it, you start to make it happen. The energy is there. Anyway, so put that for me from just an outsider watching the fun of, I should also mention for less of an outsider, more inside of, in the martial arts world, partially probably because of Joe, I'm not sure. Like John Donahar, Gordon Ryan, the B team, all those folks, those are, that might be

gibberish to you. But those are like some of the greatest grapplers and martial artists of all time. So it's also becoming this hub of martial arts. So the whole thing is just beautiful. Anyway, what are your thoughts about that scene? Well, there's a lot, lot here, a lot of things to mention. One, I think Joe did do that to a degree. You know, like all these people with sagura lives there now, a lot of comics live there. He's opening clubs, other clubs are opening. I think it's happening.

That's the other thing is people go, everybody's moving to Austin, Austin's the new hub, and then they look at their watch and they go, five minutes went by, nothing changed. It's gonna take years, you know, but everybody wants it now, now, now. What, Austin, there's no industry there. You know, there's no Netflix, whatever. And you're like, yeah, I know, but it needs a minute.

You can't just do this overnight. So people forget that. So it could happen huge, just give it some time. I mean, he's opening a club. I went and saw it. It's incredible. It's so perfect for comedy. It's every detail, it some time. I mean, he's opening a club. I went and saw it. It's incredible like it's so perfect for comedy. It's every detail. It's incredible. But so it could happen still. I do think where there's a little biting off more than they can chew with Austin because it's not that big.

So like this spread. I mean, yeah, it's not big and the infrastructure is not quite there. Exactly. To support it. But it has a lot of, you know, comparing for my, for the tech side, for it has a lot of land to expand into. So it might become this helps. Like you're basically establishing, it's kind of like in New York, you're establishing these whole neighborhoods.

Yeah. And you have the freedom to do that because there's a lot of space on all sides. Yes, okay, so that helps. So again, maybe some time. I do agree with this new hope that's kind of built in the human beings of like, let's go to America. Let's go to the utopia. We even have it with space.

Let's go to Mars. We got to see what's over there. And it's just red, dusty bullshit. But you still got to go. So I'm with you's over there. And it's just red, dusty bullshit, but you still got to go. So I'm with you on that about this new hope, this new land. And I think that is beautiful. And I think there's a lot of haters.

I think there's a lot of naysayers who hate change, who hate anything new. And then I think you got to go, hey, that hurts, that sucks, but blow me dickless. I'm trying something, you're a loser. Stop hating on me. I mean, how many people hate Elon Musk, you know? Yes, hilarious. I mean, there's some of the criticism in Austin would be it's like a fad like a lot of people really. Yeah. I really people are excited about Austin and somehow that's like

it's like one green day became famous. You no longer want to be a fan of Green Day. But to me, like this, uh, also was already a cool town. Like every comic five years ago, it's like, oh, I got Austin this weekend. I can't wait. Yeah. So it already had a buzz, but some people think maybe the buzz was the cool part. The fact that it was like this off the beaten path city. And now I get to visit it and then leave. But I think it could still be this comedy tech booming place. It just will take some time and people want it right now.

Well, on the tech side, it's already there. It's getting there very fast. I mean, Elon's really pushing that with the factory. It's just a huge number of people are moving there with jobs. Like, you're already starting. And then the opportunities to launch new companies is just incredible. I guess it's not right now.

It's like within months, within a year, that kind of thing. But like, it's an opportunity to just start to build shit in a new place. And it's cool. It's kind of like, you know, go to Mars. It's like we get to start over. Yeah, and I like the hope aspect. I think that's huge for people.

And I'm all for it. I hope it works out. I don't know if it will, but I don't know anything about economies and city scant planning and all that shit. So it might be too early to say, but I hope it works. He's still talking about Austin or Mars. Austin. Mars is, uh, there's nothing there. There's no vagina there. There's no food there. There's no water there. I don't know. It seems I get space travel. I think it's important, but I don't know. Mars is really going to move the needle.

is really gonna move the needle. So what are your thoughts about Elon Musk and SpaceX and launching rockets into space? I think it's all good because you could say, hey, we could just feed everybody and it was like, yeah, that's true. By the way, these guys give a ton of money to like philanthropy shit that nobody cares about. By the way, you know, it's weird like he can feed the Nigeria and with pocket change

of his and you're like, well, maybe he has, you know, like I heard Bill Gates gave back so much of money to save six million lives. But that's a reverse Holocaust, by the way. That's pretty good. What have you done? You're a barista. So, you know, I just think I think space travel is good because you learn about the place you're living in from going to space. It kind of helps you learn about this more. You could say, what's the point of going to this other there, but it does help, I think. Doing difficult things in the engineering space seems to be a way to develop, like as a almost like an accident, as a side effect of doing a really

difficult thing in a team of brilliant people, you develop things like the internet. And you could argue that the internet may be is not so good for society. No, I'm just kidding. That's good and bad. Yeah, but it's like a pull up. You're trying to get your bicep going, but hey, but before you know, you got decent forearms, but you weren't working on the forearms. You wanted to buy, but you got the four. And I think that's kind of what space travel is. I like how this like pivoted into

to a workout routine advice. I'm trying to get an analogy going here. All right, they'll work pretty well. I'll take it. All right. What are your thoughts about since I'm a robotics person, they'd be curious to see like what do you think about the space at all about first of autonomous vehicles with Tesla autopilot and Waymo Self-driving car. I'm not sure if you're familiar with all the autonomous vehicles and so on So those are robots on wheels and then there's also legate robots So next time you're an Austin you get to meet some of the LEGOed robots that have been working on.

And I find those kind of a fascinating way to explore the nature of intelligence in our computers, but also explore our own intelligence and also explore our own like what makes us connect to other living beings, whether it's dogs, cats or other humans. Like there's some magic there that's beyond just intelligence. And I like when I have the robot dog, there's some aspect to it that I don't know, brings me joy in a way that a dog does, in a way that a good friend does. Yeah, that means. That's interesting.

And I'm not sure if that's some kind of anthropomorphism like where I'm projecting my hopes for this, what this thing is, but it's kind of built in. I mean, it's just a source of joy. Maybe it's connected to the fact that there's just a loneliness within all of us, within me, and it's just nice to have other things in your life that move, that recognize you, that kind of thing.

I mean, I suppose it's nice to even just have a plant. Yeah, it is. Plant goes a long way. You see a guy with plants in his apartment, it changes the apartment because they're alive. You got a water room. You got to put sun on them. So yeah, I think there's something there. And I think you can see people's reactions

when you show them advanced technology, like these dog robots or these robots at dance and shit. People are like, what the fuck? It hits home in some way, whether it's fear or you want to fuck them clearly, whatever it is. But it does connect with you in some way. So I'm with you. And I think this is why I don't think robots will take over.

You always see that robot, they're making them too advanced. They're gonna wipe us out, blah, blah, blah. If robots get it human emotions, that is scary because they could get mad at us and kill us and they're stronger. And they don't need sleep, they don't need food, they don't need water, they don't get jealous. But if they have emotions, then I think we can dominate them.

Because who's that emotion? Who knows emotions better than us? We've got thousands of years of evolutionary emotional bullshit. We can go, hey, robot, I heard you, your wife fuck that black and dicker, huh? They're gonna crumble. We can bully them. Emotionally manipulate robots? Yes. That's when we'll win.

Right now they could kill us. They could just we'd all die. Then we shoot them back. Bing, Bing, Bing, Bing. That's no good. But if they do get emotions, then we can go, Hey, you, you look like hell. What is that? A rusty bolt? Hey, you're dropping some oil there. You know, you loser. I think we can win if we, if they do get emotions. So this goes back to your father being able to undecide you to send the word. Are you right?

Yeah, so we're the creators of the robots. And then the robots will just, you would say the exact thing where the robot will be like, that's not a bitch. And then it goes back to his whole and just sits there miserable. Right, yeah, hardware looks more like software to me. You can't get it up. Yada, yada, yada.

Yeah. But I'm not worried about robots and I think self, what do you think about the self-driving cars? Is that just wiping out the horse and buggy? Isn't that just progression of technology? Yeah, so I don't know if you've driven in a Tesla, for example. I have, I wrote in the past.

The best drive it. Yeah, there's several stages in that. I think it's the problems way harder than people realize. And for quite a while, it'll just make driving more pleasant. It'll make it less stressful. It'll take over some of the boring bits for you and make it easier. Like there's something that happens actually when the car is driving for you in the following way, like it's, it's staying when the car is driving for you in the following way. It's staying in the lane, it's keeping distance to the car for you.

Maybe it's changing lanes. It allows you to relax a little bit. You still have to be alert, but you become like a passenger and you get to like taking the world. I mean, somehow that's more relaxing without making you necessarily, like, bored more. It's energizing more. So I just think it makes the driving experience more pleasant. But when you actually fully automate cars, when you can just completely tune out and start reading a book, go to sleep, that might change society, like in ways we don't even understand, because you'll have, I mean, the, the,

it'll probably change the nature of roads because the cars, because now you can be super productive. Yeah. And so no longer quite matters to you as much how long it takes to get from point A to point B, because you're not wasting that time. You just continue working. Yeah. It's like public transit that time, you just continue working. Yeah. It's like public transit that comes to you. Exactly.

And so they, there will be maybe less roads and bigger roads and it will just change the nature of how we get from point A to point B. I think you're right. But then couple that also with the fact that we seem to be more and more comfortable existing in the digital world. Yeah. So like, maybe we won't want to go be more and more comfortable existing in the digital world. Yeah. So like maybe we won't want to go outside more and more, we'll just interact with each other virtually

and I don't mean Zoom meetings. I mean, just in other ways, that's more fulfilling than a Zoom meeting. That's true. But then maybe not, because like there's something deeply uncompaling about about Zoom meetings. Like podcasts that are remote, unless they're super information dense,

at least to me as a podcast fan, kind of suck. They suck. There's no connect. It goes back to the dog thing. With the Zoom, there's no connection. Yeah, and we're not, you know, I don't understand why we're not even making eye contact. I know. But it's something there.

It's in the room. this pheromone. And that's like out of our understanding probably. It's just some kind of weird biological, you never have Cheerios in a bowl. The Cheerios tend to go together. You see a cluster of Cheerios. They're never really hanging out on the other side. And that's kind of how people are in real life.

I wonder what the physics of that is. So they come together and they stick. There's so many with molecules. I don't know, I can't remember what it was, but it was fascinating. And I think that's how people are. And I think you try to write a TV show or craft a movie with your team, zoom, nothing there.

It's like phone sex versus penetration. One day you'll learn that. I know nothing of either the, I look forward, because I think there's a phone sex Netflix documentary that this is show or something like that that is really popular. I don't wanna go watch, at least I can learn about that. Okay, I could say any of some links.

I could really. Oh, on the internet? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But you're self-driving car. I think it's just inevitable. It's coming and these truckers are gonna have to figure something out Yeah, I mean that's that's an under understood industry actually because there's not There's a lot of trucking jobs and oh, yeah, and people don't want it well People don't want to actually take them anymore because it's such a difficult job

So it won't have or a lot of people believe it won't have as big of a negative impact as folks anticipate. Oh, good. There'll be other automation, I think they'll have a huge impact. Yeah, for sure. I mean, you already see it in McDonald's, you go to the, why do you want to get yelled at by the heavy said woman of color, you know, for making a bad order when you can just, you know, hit the screen? But those interactions, I think, are human. I mean, that's part of life. So it is scary

taking away everything. How long do we're not fucking? That's common, too. Yeah. Then it's going to have two types of people. You a fuck in real life or you a digital fuck person. I'm a digital. I like real fucking. we can't date. That's coming. Well, there's also the reproduction side of sex, which is like with genetic engineering, you'll be able to specify a little bit of details. I talked to Jamie Meretzel about that. Like where you can specify like, you know, it'll start with like, I want my child not to have like a high likelihood of diabetes or something like that. And then you get to specify like intelligence, you just get to specify those kinds of parameters until you're like basically trying to create a perfect human and you lose some of the magic

of the flaws that make us who we are. And you know, I'm pretty sure in the full lineup of humans, like, so let me give you some information, which I'm sure you researched this thoroughly, but a male of the human species of the homo sapien produces 500 billion sperm cells in a lifetime. So that's all some more than others. That's all uniquely genetically unique humans that you could produce. So even across those 500 billion, you can select. And so mean like a board sum or no, you can choose which of them you want. I mean, just imagine

all the genetic possibilities there, they're like all the possible like you won the race. Yes. Shocking. This is one of all the 500 billion. you have to imagine what the competition was Oh just Tarts all day long handicapped Well, so it's not actually the the fastest sperm or like it's I think a lot of his timing and luck What it seems like there's actual papers on this and I've actually been reading I hope so so it's not just like the fastest sperm to the egg. Okay. There's a timing thing So you were just lucky.

All right. I believe that. So it's interesting to think about like once you're able to specify some parameters of what your child is like, how that changes the nature of even just like the intimacy of two humans getting together and making creating together a child. Yeah. I mean, it changes it. It's almost like, I don't know, it becomes like a factory line of some kind.

If you don't meet naturally. Yeah, if you don't meet naturally. And then you don't, and you get, get to optimize your child, then it's, yeah, then it's something like you have to consider you to letarian type of things like what's good for society and then it'll probably be regulation about what kind of children you can have and not like your child cannot have an IQ below this or above this or something like that. I mean, your child cannot. We above this something like that. Your child cannot.

We already kind of do that. We know. VIP clubs. Like, hey, you're kind of ugly or women go, hey, he's not tall enough. We kind of do it a little, especially sexually. Yeah, we do. You can't get on the roller coaster if you're this short, whatever it is. We do it in some capacity.

But here this would be like fully transparent and to a degree that is hard to imagine. Like the way we currently do it, you can at least get around it. Yes. You can at least trick your way onto the roller coaster even if you're short. Right. Or the fat guy can get rich so he can get laid. You know, there's other ways. At the risk of asking the totally wrong person this question, what advice would you give to young people today in high school and college about how to have a successful career or career they're proud of or maybe have a life that they're proud of? Ooh. Well, first of all, you got to, you gotta want a life you're proud of.

Not everybody has any integrity. A lot of people just want short money. I want to feel good, look good right now. I want to do Molly. Boom, I'll feel good, you know. But you should space it out. You should, it's almost like saving money so you can use it later. Nobody wants to save money.

What do they say? Like 11% of America actually has money saved. A thousand dollars or some shit, it's wildly low. Everybody wants it now, now, what do you call it? Immediate gratification. I think the key to happiness and satisfaction is working for something. Even if it's, it's like a baby.

If you could have a baby in five minutes, if a woman, you got a, you gizzed in her and she had a baby, up five minutes boom, newborn, healthy, I think it'd be more likely to throw it away. If you could make it that quick, it's the fact that you spent nine months back breaking the labor, the lactating, the ripped placenta, and the hymen, or whatever the fuck, that's what makes you love it., and the hymen, or whatever the fuck, that's what makes you love it. And I think it's the same with comedy or making money or whatever.

Look at these kids who like child stars. They all become heroin addicts at like 22 because they've just, their sensors are burned out. They're pleasure sensors. See, you didn't have to earn it. I think earning it is a big part of life and always try to do better, try to do more, try to learn new things.

Hey, I'm bored, life sucks, life to play the piano then, you chooch, but you won't do it because it takes effort and failure and all that, but that's the good part. And I know it's hard to see. So I think that's a good, good key to life is work hard at something you care about and then love the result.

The hard work, the journey is actually way more important than just getting something. Everybody wants to go on Amazon. I got a package, then you feel good for 10 seconds and all right, let's go on Amazon again. And then you're just, it's just a dumb cycle of you being disgusting and gluttonous. So work for it.

Everybody wants to take steroids and just, poop, I'm buff. What did you point at me? Just say, I'm Russian or what? I saw the Icarus. But no, I'm not saying you're on Roids. I've just seen it be way bigger.

But I'm just saying, you know, work for something. And then I would also, young people, eat shit early. Eat shit early. I know a guy who kind of got canceled or whatever. And he had an out early, but he tried to get by and he tried to ride it. And it all came crumbling down. But if he had eaten early, like, yeah, I fucked up.

I did that. Whatever it was, he would have just kind of been been shit on for a month and then it would have gone away. But now it's his whole identity and that sucks. So each shit early and I know it's hard to see. What do I mean early? I'm in the present, but look ahead, look back, this time will pass.

We're looking at high school. High school is the biggest thing in our lives. Oh my God, this exam, Susie Q hates me. The football player beat me up. Ah, I'll never recover. Now you. The football player beat me up. I'll never recover. Now you don't even think about high school. It's just a blip in your dumb life, you know, and that's what this is now. This will just be a blip. So remember that and work towards something and work hard and care about the result. If the result isn't

good, try it again. And failure is not always bad. Failure, we look at failure, is this end all be all? My life's over, I failed. But failure is really just learning. So that's up. So in summary, eat shit early and eat shit often. Yes. All right, Mark Norman. Eat ass.

That's the escalated quickly. All right, I have a list of random questions for you. What activities make you lose track of time? Oh. Just have that go into that zone. You have this happiness, contentment, and value that you just truly enjoy. Yeah. I think a good conversation.

I'll sit at the comedy seller with friends maybe a little whiskey's flowing and When you're really just vibing and and inhib in inhib in in a bit You can do it. What is it? Inhibiting inhibited uninhibited uninhibited when you're just vibing you're uninhibited and you're saying crazy shit And you're laughing and you're not worried it my seeming cool right now I'm I seeming likable when you're just you, 100% and it's all coming out of you. And then they're saying stuff and you go back and forth and you feel that excitement.

Oh, they're talking, but I want to say my thing. And you know, you get all keyed up. I love that and I look at my watch, I'm like, fuck, it's three in the morning. This is, we've been talking for five hours. So I love that. That makes the time fly by. Also, I bought a, speaking of self-driving cars.

I bought a 1973 BMW car and it's classic and it's stick shift and it's grisly and gritty and rusty and it's a bucket of bolts, but I love driving it. Bucket of bolts. Yeah. You're a townweights, you're poets. Have you taken like a long trip anywhere, like road trip in your life or with this BMW. Not with it, it's pretty new, but I will. It's a new 90s side. Yeah, yeah, it's new to me.

And it just, it goes in the face of everything we're doing now. Everything is digital, everything is automated, everything is hands off, everything is delivered. And this is the most hands-on thing in the world. And I am dialed in, man. I got the techometer. I keep an eye on that. Oh, I put the wrong gear and shit oh it's about to stall put some gas put some clutch and it's all just brainpower and and stay in and focus and all that and it's the opposite of tweeting and texting

and watching porn or whatever so I almost needed that in my life so I bought this car just to have this little exercise. I hope you don't mind that I'm just trying out random questions I wrote. I knew that I completely, they're like completely insane. I'm a guinea pig. Gives it my face. Break it on, baby. This would be edited down to five minutes. If everyone on earth disappeared and it was just you left. What would your days look like? What would you do? That's tough because I'm already an introvert and I try to avoid people mostly like I like a one-on-one but crowds and all that is tough. So basically unchanged. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. But then that's the irony

is I would be so sad to not talk to anybody. So it's this weird bitter sweet thing, but I don't know what I would do, man. I guess it's kind of like when you're hungover, you just go into the primal survival mode. I gotta get food. I need water. I'm horny. Jerk off.

You know, you just go, you're not like playing the piano or painting or at the gym. So I think I would just go and urges, man, prime allergic, fine food, store food. Am I safe? Make weapons, build a shelter that I can't get attacked in. I would go all survival mode. And then once I maybe realize if I was safe or not, there's no wild roaming dogs, I would start exploring. And, you know, maybe somehow get a vehicle and I would try to expand and that would be it. And I maybe had journal. Exploring to what to try to find new experiences.

New life, if there's other, maybe there is another guy out there. Oh, so always there's a possibility. Yeah, hope. And then maybe there's another guy out there. Oh, so always, there's the possibility. Yeah, hope. And then maybe there's a better place I could live. Let's find that and then moving on. Maybe there's more food over here. So yeah, the hope would drive me. But it would be bleak and sad and horrible also.

So what you're saying is you really want other people to be there so you can hide from them. Yes. Yes. Well said. All right. What's the item on your bucket list that you haven't done yet? Think about something you'd be very upset if you died and you haven't done.

Well, I'm terrified of having kids, you know, just because I'm a child myself and I'm selfish and lazy in a way. So kids are like, this is your whole life now. This is it. You got to not let this thing die. You got to love it. You got to raise it. So kids scare the shit out of me,

but I also feel like if I don't have them, I'll regret it. Well, you've seen so many people, like you who are fundamentally changed by kids. Like it's a source, it's a source of like a deep source of happiness, even though you didn't anticipate it. Yeah So you like you penciled it into your bucket. Yes. Yes

You're it might be out there. Okay, do you have you want kids? Yeah, well, I want kids. I want to get married I want to have kids I kind of I don't like choice so So in the following way, I appreciate the value of scarcity, in the power of scarcity. I don't like the modern dating culture. It's not some religious thing, whatever. I just like one girl for a long time, or at least swinging for that always,

swinging for the fences. And you could be swinging right now. I mean, there's a different use of the word swinging here. Sure, sure. But I'm saying, you could be clear. You look great. Your hand. Yeah. Thank you. muscular. Thank you. You get the job done. So I feel like you wouldn't leave without an orgasm on her. Yeah. But I just like to, you know, about

furries, I like to dress up as an animals and I just have trouble finding others who like to say out there. I could show you some chat rooms. You're also my coach for the internet. Okay. What are you most afraid of? I guess on Unlived Life, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I was a big fan growing up of like wild guys, you know, like these Teddy Roosevelt who would go out and hunt lions and like bar fighting guys. I was obsessed with a Hunter S Thompson types. And look, this is what I love about guys like, who's a good example? Like Hemingway. Hemingway was the manliest guy. He had the rifle and the elephant gun and the whiskey and the riding and the women and the fist fights.

But people forget it. The other side of that coin is I'm sure he was in a lot of hotel rooms weeping. I'm sure he was low He is fuck. I'm sure he had some wicked hangovers. I mean he killed himself for Christ's sake. So obviously he was dealing with something So the key to me is having this adventurous life living to the fullest doing crazy shit scaring yourself But also not killing yourself like also not hating because I used to party a lot hard. I used to bang a lot of gals and this the flip side is like this girl hates you now or you got herpes or you're hung over or your mom is like where are you? You never call me anymore. You're like oh my mom. I let let ties go my mom. I got to connect. So this horrible there's a horrible side of the party animal the Keith Richards We don't see is not pretty. I mean, he's already weird looking

But he's party he's smoking he's living but there's another side of that coin and I think the key to life is Living that fucking crazy awesome badass life and also having some You know meaning and and a little bit of, what's the word, not just not killing yourself, not going sad, not being depressed. There's a medium there, a sweet spot. Does that make sense?

Yeah, so taking big leaps and having way, grabbing life by the balls, but at the same time, not crushing the balls that are at a four work perfect like evil cannibal we all know him. What a badass fearless oh man what a cool dude he's got balls of steel, but he also lived like the back half of his life in a fucking uh you know bark Allanger what his legs were made of steel and he couldn't see straight and his dictaten work so. You know what I mean you gotta have a balance, but you still want the balance. I'm willing to take a little bit of shit for a little bit of fun,

but you don't want to go too hard. Because I- You gotta still risk it. I mean, how did it stop sin? It didn't end well. Yeah. It's quite a ride. Quite a ride.

What small act of kindness will you once shown that you will never forget That's a great question You're you're I just wrote these for the diggini pick you're the guinea pig that's a keeper Okay, that's a keeper. Yeah, this is where like workshop in question, sir All right, I'll take it now you're open biking. Yeah, this is your version Let's see the of ladies in high school who were kind enough to hand job me. That was nice, which I really appreciate.

I don't think women know how much that means to us. You know, when we're like, I'm not a piece of meat or whatever. And you're like, I know, but if you just gave me a hand job, it would make my world. It's like telling a kid he's smart or loved. See, most people mentioned like a math teacher middle school that

that was inspired them to get into science. You, you, it's give a shout out to the. Well, that's part of it. That's not the nicest, but I'm just saying that goes a long way. All right. Let's see, kindness. That's a great question. I want to give you a good answer. I got lost when I was like six.

I was walking around my dad and I zoned out and went away and Next thing you know, I don't know where I am. I'm in a neighborhood this old guy Finds me crying on a lawn somewhere and he goes cut come inside and he tried to call my parents and nothing came of it Eventually they found me after like nine hours cops were there the FBI's out there fucking helicopters And I guess you know that's the nicest old guy took me in for a couple hours and just sat me down and kept me safe That's something. Yeah. Oh, how about Enis my trans vestite nanny Very kind

He uh, did you hear about this? No. Okay. We had this transvestite name. He was like a drag queen, but it was in the 90s. So it was weird. It was new. And, uh, my bike got stolen and he, you know, my parents were like, eh, what are you going to do?

They're poor kids, you know, and he was like, fuck it. Let's, we're going to go get that bike. And I was like, this guy's in a wig and high heels. Big black guy. And I'm like, uh, ah, what are you going to do? You know, it black guy. And I'm like, ah, what are you gonna do? You know, it's gone. And he's like, nah, we're gonna go get it. So we got in the van and drove around my neighborhood, saw the kids,

plucked with the bike, you know, five street tuffs. And he goes, all right, you wanna come out? Or should I just do this? And I was like, you do it. I'm terrified. What are you crazy? And he got out of the van in full, you know, heels and wig.

And he went up to these guys and they went off, oh my god, look at this fucking guy, homophagin', all this shit, you know, it's the 90s. And he just stared at him long enough to where they were kind of like, all right, well, I guess we're gonna fight you now. And he goes, that's not your bike. And they go, what are you gonna do about it?

And he puts his hand on the middle of the bike and they didn't do anything. And he just picked it up and said, that's what I thought. Put the bike over shoulder, slid the van door open, threw the bike in and we drove off. Somebody stuck up for you. Yeah.

And he could have got, I mean, they're tools. They could have fucking tuned him up two seconds. That actually like takes courage. Oh yeah, real courage. And then that, the reason you do an act like that is that makes a kid like you feel like there's somebody on your side. That's powerful.

Someone on your side is big. It's big. That goes a long way. Especially when they have the risk of getting their ass kicked or their job taken away or whatever it is. Now we're going to get philosophical, maybe a little bit emotional. Would you rather lose all your old memories or never be able to make new ones. It's a tough one, but I'd go easy answer, make new ones.

But don't you think all this shitty thing that happened to you? Oh, so my hard drive is white clean. It's not, is it memories or is it how every memory affected me too? I mean, this is a very, what do they go hand in hand? I think the reality about memories is you replay them often you go back to them Even when you're not aware of it you really go you go back often like that And they change you change them to yeah, you change them to suit your understanding of the world. Yes, and so The the dark view you have both the hope and the cynicism you have about the world is so deeply grounded in the in the memories that you're

basically I will say if you erase all memories, I think you're really starting over with maybe the wisdom of how the world works, but not your, so much of your personality's gone. You would really, I did be interesting how your comedy would change. Maybe you would have a good sense of timing, you have a good sense of like the writing process, maybe, but like. Now you're making some good points,

but let me ask you this, let's say I go to Lake Cuomo with my girlfriend. Now, I wiped the memory, or I keep my old memories, let's say I go to the Tuscany with the lady. Yeah. I just won't remember that. Yeah, but you get to experience in the moment.

Okay, you'll get to enjoy it. Can I look at a photo of it? Yes. But what the hell a photo of it? Yes. But what the hell is this? He exactly. Oh, fascinating. It's exact. The rules are pretty simple.

Like everyone knows how the rules go. So you would, yeah, so what? Well, I was gonna say start new ones, but then I realized I wouldn't be who I was without them. That's what you're saying. So I guess I'd keep them. Because I am 38, so I've gotten a good chunk out of life. Yeah. And let's be honest, how many years do you have left? I know, right? I've got

AIDS. Is it better to have loved? Okay, this question is ridiculous. Is it better to have loved and lost or to have never loved at all? The, the, the, the, it sounds cliche, but there's a question. Definitely better to loss. So you enjoy the ups and downs. Yeah, that's life. We're sun and rain, baby. I kind of like both the whole thing, the loss. Every time you lose something, it really makes you distinctly realize how much you value

it. Yes. Like, am I, what I'm sad, like when I'm feeling alone, and I'm sitting there alone at home, and I wish I could hang out with somebody, that's like a realization how awesome people are. Yeah. So it's like the missing, the, yeah, We don't have a lot of that in life anymore because we can have anything we want immediately. So the missing has gone away, which again,

drives down the joy of having it. So I think you're right, you need both. So like you said, you have a condition that a terminal condition not many years left. Do you think about your mortality? You think about that? All day every day. Are you afraid?

Not afraid, because it's inevitable. So it's more like, what are we having to handle this? It's like the winner is coming. Let's stock up on some fucking nuts. But the existential nature of it, like the fact that this ride ends, like what the hell are you doing in your this four? Like is it your...

Neutrification, happiness, short term, but like, that there is a presumption there that it kind of goes on forever. I think it's truly think about the fact that it ends. Your brain almost shuts it down. Yeah. There's some kind of like protective like switch that just goes off. I mean, that's why the Stolex you know encourage people to meditate on death because it somehow reorganizes your priorities. It helps you like holy shit, this ends make the most of the day. Yes, it's just a nice thing but still you can't quite comprehend the thing ends. Little things too, you know, people go like, oh, we got to lay over between our flights.

It's an hour, what are we gonna do for an hour? It's like, what are you gonna do for an hour? You're gonna kill an hour, let's kill, how are we gonna kill this hour? This is part of your life. You're just trying to get rid of it, you're just trying to kill it, that always blew my mind.

Like, hey, fuck it, let's go hit the airport bar. Let's get a candy bar or something, anything with bar. But it's just, you've got to live. I hate this like, how are we gonna burn? Oh, the bar didn't open for 15 minutes. What are we gonna do? What we got 15 minutes? We got the world as always, sir.

Yeah, make the most of it. And like you said, in modern day, actually the boredom is a gift. Like when you're waiting for something, that's a gift. You get to be with your thoughts. Yeah. Those are the same thoughts you'll have when you're on your death bed. There won't be a, you won't be scrolling TikTok on your death bed.

I hope not, Jesus. You'll be a little more, actually, maybe you would be. What does that exist? Because it would be a good, like, content creators would be like, oh, I'm dying. It's gonna be good content Yeah, I want to be able to sure film the exact moment it goes Like last words. I wonder what my last Yeah, it's a good way to like end the the account of the bang. Yep. I like that Well, you know, they've ever seen that meme where the old guy in bed goes, I wish I had tweeted more, you know, and then he dies.

It's so true. Could be the future. What do you think is the meaning of life? I don't think there is one. Everybody always throws that out there. There isn't a meaning. I think we're here. We're lucky to be here. I think there's no afterlife. There's no heaven. That's that's all shit. We tell ourselves to feel better. And I think you got to just, it's's like saying what is the meaning of this? Food I made well, it's just you enjoy the food you try to get the most out of it Yeah, you built the food you prepared it so just get what you can out of it don't die and Try to make it last as long as possible.

Yeah, but you look at Earth. It's like four billion years old. And life started early on, like simple cell bacteria life, like a one billion years in. And then it started like having lots of aggressive interaction. Eventually, there's predator and prey and there's sex, lots of sex, lots of sex, lots of aggressive interaction, eventually there's predator and prey and there's sex, lots of sex, lots of sex, lots of violence.

Oh yeah. And then, you know, through natural selection, there's just a whole evolutionary process of animals that have loved and lost and murdered and gotten murdered and all that kind of stuff. And it's somehow led to human civilization where super busy trying to create things and creating beautiful art that kind of stuff. And it's somehow led to human civilization. We're super busy trying to create things and creating beautiful art, creating beautiful comedy.

Yeah. Just always creating something new. It feels like it's tending towards something. Like, it's not dying. If you die tomorrow, you still have all these hours of pods. So it's kind of, you're thinking of cheating death in a subconscious way, I think. Right. You know what Ernest Becker is and heard the name. It's a book called The Nile of Death, this idea that if you don't acknowledge

books on my show, the girls love it. Like Dusty Yasky, no, I'm just, I'm saying, you want to bring told story to Dusty Yask that the Russian literature. It's the back to norm It's good to bring to because No American is ready any Russian literature, but they all appreciate it if you bring it And it's not like they're gonna ask you and you'll agenda my questions because they haven't read it Yeah, so you can always pretend like you've read it. So it's a little dense Can we get a shortened version? Cliff notes. Yes, we're making a movie with Ben

Stiller that I can just go, oh, this is based on what is it, life and death? No, it's the one. Warren Peace. Yeah. Yeah. So, Ernest Becker's theory, and there's this whole Terra management theory that basically says that like our terror of death, our fear of death is one of the central creative forces of the human condition. It's the reason we're trying to, yeah, cheat death. We're trying to dilute ourselves that somehow we can become immortal through our art. That's why you've uploaded your special to YouTube

because you think your special will outlive all of human civilization. You think YouTube will outlive all of human civilization. You think YouTube will outlive all of human civilization. I can go away tomorrow. That can go away tomorrow. All of this can go away. So I'm truly grateful Mr. Mark Norman that you would spend your very valuable time with me today, even though it could all go away.

This could be the last day of our lives. And won't you be quite upset? This is how you spent it. Oh, yeah. You're a hotel room. What am I? You're like Harvey Weinstein here. You heard me up, but now I feel fucked.

Just wait. What we have ready for you after the podcast is over. I brought it. Thanks so much for talking to me. Thank you. That was great. Comedy. Thanks for listening to this conversation with Mark Norman. To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description. Great, comedy. As you know, it was regifted. Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.

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