Lex Fridman Podcast - #311 – Magatte Wade: Africa, Capitalism, Communism, and the Future of Humanity

Episode Date: August 13, 2022

Magatte Wade is an entrepreneur with a passion for creating positive change in Africa through economic freedom. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors: - Mizzen+Main: https://mizzenandmain.com and use code LEX to get $35 off - Audible: https://audible.com/lex to get 30-day free trial - InsideTracker: https://insidetracker.com/lex to get 20% off - Onnit: https://lexfridman.com/onnit to get up to 10% off EPISODE LINKS: Magatte's Twitter: https://twitter.com/magattew Magatte's Instagram: https://instagram.com/magattew Magatte's Facebook: https://facebook.com/themagattewade Magatte's Website: https://magattewade.com Websites mentioned: Austin housing project: https://texansforreasonablesolutions.org Center for African Prosperity: https://atlasnetwork.org/partners/center-for-african-prosperity PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ YouTube Full Episodes: https://youtube.com/lexfridman YouTube Clips: https://youtube.com/lexclips SUPPORT & CONNECT: - Check out the sponsors above, it's the best way to support this podcast - Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman - Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lexfridman - Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman OUTLINE: Here's the timestamps for the episode. On some podcast players you should be able to click the timestamp to jump to that time. (00:00) - Introduction (05:55) - Africa (34:48) - Magatte's story (1:03:36) - Corruption (1:25:01) - Advice for young people (1:46:02) - Identity (2:06:58) - BLM (2:24:18) - CRT and racism (2:54:32) - African geopolitics (3:03:02) - Overpopulation (3:21:49) - Loss

The following is a conversation with Macau Wade, an entrepreneur who is passionate about creating positive change in Africa through economic empowerment. And now a quick few second mention of each sponsor. Check them out in the description. It's the best way to support this podcast. We got Ms. In a Main for Style, Audible for Audio Books, Inside Track of For Longevity, and Honoured for for supplements. Choose wise my friends. And now onto the full ad reads as always no ads in the middle. I try to

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They make alpha brain and you interpret the help support memory, mental speed and focus. I remember when I first started listening to Joe Rogan, one of the early legitimate sponsors, I remember, is for AlphaGrade, for Onet. It feels surreal and really an honor to be able to say that Onet supports this podcast. So, just like one of the podcasts that really inspired me to get into the long-form discussion format, I mean, Joe has been an inspiration for many years and now is a good friend and it's just all of it is surreal and just a gigantic honor. But yeah, I do take off a brain on occasion when I have a difficult, deep work session coming up. So when I really have to think for a long period of time. You can get a special discount on Alpha Brain if you go to lexfreedman.com slash on it. This

is a lexfreedman podcast to support it. Please check out our sponsors in the description and now dear friends here's my god wait. You were born in Senegal. You have lived and traveled across the world. So let me ask you, what is the soul of Senegal? Like it's people, it's culture, it's history, can you, can you try to sneak up on telling us what is the spirit of its people? Teranga. Teranga. Teranga, it's a wall of word. Wall of is a main indigenous language of Senegal and it means hospitality. That is what us, the people of Senegal are known for. And it transpires in everything that we do, everything that we say, it's a place where I guess with hospitality goes this concept of warmth. So we are a very warm people. So on a nutshell, that's us,

that's us, the place where you come and everybody will just embrace you, make you feel very comfortable, make you look like you feel like you're the only person in the world and that we've been waiting for you our whole life, right? So that's my country. So that's for people in Senegal, people in Africa or also people across the world, weird strangers from all walks of life. So hospitality to those that are one. For everyone. For everyone, for everyone, especially towards the foreigner,

because it's very ingrained in us, this understanding that especially the foreigner, the foreigner is called foreigner, because the foreigner is coming from somewhere else. So if someone has taken the time and the energy, whether in a forced manner or because it's a choice to travel so far to come, to a place that's not fair, to start with, that's why we foreigners again, then it is your duty to welcome them, to be Uber, welcoming to them.

So there's not a fear of the foreigner, there's not a suspicion of the foreigner? No, no, no. And I think this goes with the other way around. Maybe it has to do with just, you know, when you feel good about yourself, when you're very grounded yourself, it's very easy to open yourself to others. And I'm wondering if that's not, you know, the other side of the equation in a way. So no, we don't have a fear towards the border. What's this now?

So when you have a pride of your culture, pride of your own people, it's easier to sort of embrace. I mean, it's interesting how these kind of cultures emerge, because the Slavic countries are sometimes colder. They're slower to trust others. We're now here in Austin, Texas. One of the reasons I fell in love with this place when I showed up is there's that same hospitality as compared to other cities I've lived in. sort of Boston, Philadelphia, San Francisco. There's a hesitation to open up to be fragile to be caring before understanding what the before understanding what I can gain from you kind of calculation. It's really interesting, and I wonder how those kinds of dynamics emerge, because there are certainly parts of the world.

Austin is one of them, where you just feel the kindness, just radiate without knowing kindness from strangers. You know, if I were to advance one thing and I had the same experience after having lived in San Francisco first, then we went to New York, then we came to Austin. When we came to Austin, I felt it took me a while to put my finger on it. But what I found in Austin, people just hang. People are real. They're real. Yeah. They're real. Yeah. Unlike what you were saying, I feel like in these other places, people are, it's a destination for people who want to come and perform. I think maybe the early San Francisco people, it was different for them. But later, as prosperity starts to come in and success comes in, then you attract a different breed. At first, wherever people who made it, who made this place be what it is. And then it attracts all the bling followers and the bling attracted people.

And when those people show up, it's time for all of us to get out. And that's one of my worries about Austin too. And I guess I'm gonna, I count myself in it, but you know, because we also knew a rival's, always been furious now. But how are we gonna protect this place? Yeah. Yeah, these are, you know, in the best possible version of the Austin history, this is the early days

of Silicon Valley in Austin. And so you get a chance to build on top of this culture that's already been here, of the weirdos, the artists, the sort of the characters, but also the general kindness and love that just permeates the whole place, build on top of that entrepreneurial spirit. So like tech companies, new startups, all that kind of stuff. And then you get a chance to build, totally new ideas, totally revolutionary ideas, and make them a reality, and dream big, and build it here.

I think Elon represents that with all the people that kind of try to do the cutting-edge stuff they're doing at Testlands Basics. But there's a bunch of other companies. They're just like coming up, I get to talk to a bunch of tech people and they're just incredible. Versus San Francisco, there's a cynicism a bit. And also some of the interaction with strangers, there's always a bit of a calculation. Like, how good is this going to be for my career? Or how can I hang out with this person, can advance me. You know, you go to a party, you're seizing up.

It's like, I'm not going to talk to someone so because that's not going to advance me. Who is going to advance me next? And so this is what I would not want to see here in Austin. And I think maybe there is one way to try to to I really would like to see Austin not go away. Sofosisco did an other town before I like how you pronounce San Francisco the French accent. Sofosisco? It's great.

That's the one word you go with the French accent. You sounds beautiful. You have to make me think. Sofosisco. But you know, so now that you find that cute, you're going to have to forgive me when I mess up my English because English is not my first language. So, I always try to make sure people know that.

But you know, next, this is why I am very interested in what some folks here are working on. And I'm just going to be very selfish here because I want to help her with what she's doing. It's someone like, you know, Nicole Nozek and her project, you know, with the housing projects that they have right now, making sure that Austin remains a town that's affordable for people of all walks of life. If we can accomplish making sure that all walks of life doesn't matter how little or big

you're making money wise, that you can stay in this town so that diversity at that level can remain. Then I think Austin stands a chance to really show the world how to do things differently. And what I love about, you know, her initiative is just how they're really trying, you know, to again work on keeping affordability down for most people. I think it's important to, because it seems like it matters to you. I know that it matters to me. I absolutely would not want to see Austin go away for St. Francis Co. did. And I think the key to that is making sure that true diversity,

not like the fluff, fluff crap diversity we're hearing over there, invest another thing by the way, because St. Francis Co. likes to pride itself in. Oh, you know, we are so into diversity. But I'm like, if diversity for you means gender, difference of gender, skin color, you know, maybe the different accents we have and you think, check, check, check, check, check. I'm like, it's not enough. Can we also add diversity of thoughts? And that's the other problem I have with that place, you know? And I know some folks who are scared of saying much around people. That's also another thing. So not only they're sizing you up, but everybody's

also varies with invisible, this invisible, how should I say this, there's this invisible agreement that they all seem to have to stay on script. There's a feeling like you're following a certain kind of script that's very kind of script. That's very kind of shallow. And there is a bit of a categorization going on, which category do you belong to? And let's put this into a simple math equation, what comes out as opposed to just the free open embrace of people,

the weirdos, the characters, the interesting, the full deep sense of diversity. Exactly. Not just ideas, but backgrounds and rich and poor, like artist engineers, high school dropouts, PhDs, all of this. Yes, yes, yes. That's what makes for a rich society

if I's gonna get ahead. And glad you mentioned Nicole's efforts, I know she really is passionate about. I don't know how complicated that work is because there's probably a big force trying to increase how much it costs to live in Austin. I don't know how you resist that. Whenever I go to New York City, just the fact that there's a giant park in the middle of it, I wonder, how do they pull this off?

This is amazing. It's like to resist the force of the increasing price of the land and still to protect this idea of having a park. And in the same way, protecting the ability for people from all walks of life to live in the center of the city, to live around the city, to chase a dream when they don't get any money in their pocket. I don't know how you do that. This is partly political, probably regulation, all that kind of stuff. It's a lot of it has to do with regulations. And this is where her and I also very much see eye to eye in terms of, you know, the free markets and also prosperity building because it's always the same problems every most of the time most places. Here what you have is some people in the name of we got to stand for and I don't like to use this word, but maybe you help me find a better one, but at least that's a word that people can understand.

We got to stand for the lesser fortunate among us. Some people would like call them, maybe it's oftentimes used to a word, maybe V underdogs. Whatever it is, I would also say, maybe the lesser fortunate among us, right? In the name of standing up for them, you're promoting policies that are actually gonna backfire and where they end up being the first ones to suffer from it.

So let's take this whole housing issue that Nicole and her team are working on. We find that oftentimes the cost of identity, it's the good old supply and demand equation. If you're going to make it so hard that the supply level of housing remains below a certain threshold, remains lower than the demand of people who need, especially affordable housing, housing altogether, what's going to happen is scarcity prices go up and who gets kicked out first,

the last surfortone are fortunate among us. And so, but I find that oftentimes people in the name of We Care don't engage their mind. And the friend of mine said this and he said, so well, he said, having a heart for the poor, that's easy. Having a mind for the poor, that's the challenge. And oftentimes it's, we all have a heart for a poor. But when it comes to vent to, then what do we do to have a real impact on making sure

that people get a chance at going up, then that's where everything starts falling apart. And then you have people who, you know, then they start pushing for policies, housing policies, making it super hard for you to even renovate or add one more story to your home or anything like that. By doing that, you're messing up with the supply, with the supply of housing, and therefore the people who can't afford, you know, people get priced out of a market. And so what people like Nicola doing are going back to where all of us is taking place and they're going back to the regulation side. And just like you know, I'm sure we'll talk about it here, but people want to today, why is Africa the poorest region in the world? We go back to the same corporate bad laws and tons of senseless regulations. If you make it so hard that in Berkeley for someone to build one more story to their home, which

means maybe one more unit that could be rented out to someone. And if many more people do that, then you have a much bigger supply, which means the prices will go down, which means more people have access among them, especially the less fortunate among us, then we're starting to see a winning proposal, aren't we? But instead, if you go the other way around, then all of a sudden you're pricing them out of a market. Same thing was done with us. So oftentimes when I see problems of this nature, you can betcha that regulations and census laws are the heart of it. And that's what they're tackling. It's not popular, it's not fun, and people tend to not even

understand where you're coming from. But this is a problem we have with people not understanding economic econ 101. Well, so it's the regulation laws and the system that props them up and increases the span of those laws. And we'll talk about that the fast anyway, those kinds of things develop when it works, when it doesn't. Let me sort of step back and ask a question about Africa. In the West, in many places in the world, Africa is almost talked about like it's one country like it's one place

so In what ways is Africa one community and in what ways is it many many many communities just from your perspective From in San Golan and beyond right So at the most basic of Right. So at the most basic of what makes us one goes back to even what makes you African, you are African, I'm African, we're one big family. Africa is very much at the end of the day, the foundation and the birth of, you know, the human race. So in from that standpoint, at the most basic level, we're all Africans. Where this whole thing started. Exactly.

Exactly. Where this whole thing started. And how at some point, humanity was hanging by its fingernails. Only two thousand of us were left on this earth. And eventually we started, you know, we went for survival. And that's how we started to spread around. And some going up north, some going this way that way. And as you're traveling to different places, then features start to change to adapt to where you are. So hair gets lighter for some people,

eyes get different shape for others to adjust to a new natural habitat. The genomics program, I think, at the National Geographic did that so well for people who are interested in going back to that work with Spencer Wells and such. But yeah, so at the very basic, most basic level, that's what United States all, first of all. And then, I would say that the continent, especially here, I will group it into Black Africa, you know, Black Africa. Africa. Unfortunately, our common stories, you know, of having gone through this terrible, horrible period of around the same time, the whole continent being, you know, enslaved and colonized. So that, in a way, forms not that we were ever the first people or only people ever, you know, enslaved in this world. As a matter of fact, I mean the world slaves comes from a slave, you know, slave slaves, slaves, this love, right from the Eastern block. So the first slaves were

actually people looking more like you than looking like me, right? So, but we don't necessarily remember all of that because in our human psyche, the closest to us in history of a big mass of people being enslaved is African people. We were the last, the last group like that. You know, the pain of World War I and World War II permeates Europe, but it certainly does for the Soviet, the former Soviet Union, the countries that made up the former Soviet Union, in that same way, the pain of slavery and empires using Africa, does that permeate the culture? Is there still echoes of that? In a way, yes, especially the fact that, you know, in many different places, whether it's Ghana or my country or Benin, where you have these places that we call the Doer of North

Return or the places of North Return, which this was the last place where the slaves were standing or this is in Senegal, we call it the Doer of North Return. There is this one door, you're there in this live house, and once we go, we go. That's it, that's going to be the last time they see back home. So, you know, those, of course, of course,

it creates for a common lived experience which becomes a common lived history and of course it's going to tire us up. Is there a resentment because you mentioned hospitality? Yeah. Is there a kind of resentment of the foreigner that they there's a rich vibrant land? There's many resources, there's powerful cultures. Are they just going to show up and use us? That's a way to see geopolitics in this modern world. Yeah, yeah. This is okay. So where it plays very differently is, so if you came to Senegal today, there is not really a problem at that level. Where

people's resentment start to come from is of course when bad behavior shows up, meaning like you have so many white people who can show up and just in the attitude, they have an entitlement attitude, right? And they think, but in a way, we're all still servants. Some people, you know, in your face, some people more, but that can cause some little resentment. But where really the resentment is. And that can, at the end time, it can take different forms, like even pity is a is a. Don't even get me going on that. I was trying to be polite today. So just, just don't let's do not. You know, sometimes I tell myself, my God, today you're going to be all composed. You know, next, you all compose. So don't go very make a fool of yourself.

Yeah. Just just just behave. Yeah, hold it together. You get me on some grounds. That's when it's all gonna go out. Yeah, so yeah, let's move beyond that too. So resentment, there's a dance between hospitality and resentment. And resentment. So when you come in, you live your life,

you're just a normal human being, and you treat me decent, you would treat a friend, normal people. I have no problem with you. I'm not gonna come back and be like, well you and your ancestors haven't saved me, you're not gonna see that stuff. Sometimes I'm in this country, well I feel like that's, you know, it might look like that. But we in Africa don't do that. Now, if you come, you have a nice attitude, you think you're still sitting servants around? Well, you can have a problem. Someone like me, I might even grab you by the back of your neck and you know, take you back to the airport. That's when you're lucky. How are you very quickly? Exactly, but where things come up

is especially nowadays with the African youth. When we have to be reminded of a World Bank, when we have to be reminded of a World Bank, when we have to be reminded of even the world, places like the World Economic Forum, you know, like all of these places that seem to constitute, they would, the way they describe them, then I say they, it's primarily my Pan-African friends. So here may be terms are worth describing.

So the Pan-African friends. So here maybe terms are worth describing. So the Pan-African movement goes way back when we're talking about way back when started in the firties going on all the way from there. So what you have there is people who have started coming together and dreaming up an emancipated Africa away from the colonies because at that point there were still colonies and dreaming up all of that. So we're talking about people like Kwame Kuma, Afgana, we're talking about Julius Nierrari of Tanzania, talking about Blis Jain of Senegal and other people like that, Bande of Malawi. So anyway, so, and the African youth of today,

we're still hanging on onto some of these ideas of, and on some of these dreams of a reunited Africa. So when you were talking about what seems to unite you, there is that, you know, also, meaning like we all feel like we're part of the same family. Is it only in our heads? Is it in reality? Many for many different reasons, there is definitely what we call a pan-African movement. And I very much myself, consider myself one of them.

I don't agree all the time with where we want to go and how we want to go there, but not where we want to go. Where we want to go is we would love to see a United Africa for sure, but how to get that accomplished? That's where oftentimes we have issues. So on something like that, so this Pan African, especially the Pan African youth, but it's beyond the Pan African youth, it's the youth in general in Africa, World Bank, UN, all of these organizations that they tend to qualify as imperialist organizations. And it's not always a correct way to describe them, but I'm sure you get the sentiment.

And from that place, there is tons of resentment, because for the longest time, these groups, organizations, and some that preceded them, have proceeded to actually decide what even our new frontiers would be. You see, when you go to a place like Senegal, Mali, all of that, different countries, but we were one people. One group, one kingdom, and then at some point they decided just when you look at Africa, have you looked at how straight some of these borders are? You were like, did a robot just draw these? Really? No fancy robots. No fancy robots, especially if it's when it looks so cute.

But you know what I mean? So they have continued deciding what it would be to be us, to live on our land, and how do we even progress? And it just keeps on going. They get to decide how are we gonna, which type of even economic development path are we gonna choose or not?

So it's very, so from that standpoint, yes, there's a lot of resentment, including even from people like me. Yeah, and it's interesting that the invader and the oppressor and the empires have actually created a force for unity. I've seen that in Ukraine and the invasion in Ukraine, where it was a pretty divided, not a pretty, a very divided country with many factions, but the invasion really forced everyone

to think about the identity of this nation together. Beyond factions, beyond all of that, it allowed it to look at its history and its future. They all say that all great nations have had to have a war of independence. And this is our war to find our own identity. So in that sense, Africa as one place, as one continent, found had to find multiple times its identity through the resistance of the oppressor. Especially Subternafrica. Especially Subternafrica, yes.

And there's an interesting aspect to this because the President of Senegal is also the head of the African Union. So we'll talk about the fascinating geopolitics of that Of that whole situation, but let me ask in general You talk about This question is fascinating question. What does it take for a country to prosper? What does it take for a country to prosper? You see many countries in the world that really struggle and many that flourish and

It's not always obvious why because some have natural resources some don't some have Wars some don't some have sort of authoritarian regimes some don't, and some have democracies and all that kind of stuff. So the dynamics aren't exactly obvious. Is there commonalities? Is there fundamental ideas that result in a prosperity of a nation? Today, I can confidently say yes. despite all the differences that you talked about. And I think then this is where it becomes very important

that we are very clear about the question you asked me. You said, what does it take to make a country prosperous? So I'm just going to stick to prosperity. Because prosperity doesn't necessarily mean sometimes has nothing to do with maybe how you conduct yourself otherwise socially speaking, right? So you can be prosperous and still when it comes to your family laws all the way, your approach, the other aspects of your life, maybe you're running a very communist lifestyle or you're in a very, a very liberal, you know, society.

So for me, when we talk about prosperity, I just want to make sure that we're clear on that, because some people might say that it might be somewhere and be like, well, you're good, because I know what I'm going to talk to you about next. And some people are going to sit down and be like, well, China is not like that. Or, you know, even Dubai is not like that. No. So what I'm talking about is this thing and that's what I love about this. If we just stick to the word prosperity, to me, I see prosperity as this. It's like economically speaking, what are we going to be to be a prosperous nation, meaning we are a middle to high income nation. I'm not talking about what are the rights of your women to vote or

can people live like this or I'm not talking about any economic, fundamentally economic prosperity. Yes, because I think it's that distinction is very important because over the years I've seen people push back on all types of things and it occurred to me that that's what the misunderstanding was there. So if we're going to talk about prosperity, making sure that the country can make money, so that it can take care of its needs and the needs of its citizens, then what I have come to find is that at the root of that is going to be what we call economic freedom and what I call the toolkit of the entrepreneur. In that, you can put the rule of law,

you can put the concept of clear and transferable property rights, economic freedom is at all the levels that which will allow entrepreneurs and business people to create value and create value entrepreneurially. We're not talking about when seeking anything like that, it's like you found a pie to be this big and you make it this big. So that's what we're talking about. Create value.

Create value. Yes. So when it comes to that, we have found that wherever you're looking at two countries that start out the same, we're talking the same people, each Germany, West Germany, South Korea, North Korea. Very similar people to start with, right? But yet, radical outcomes. I know that today Germany is united, but we're talking about back in the days when you had

East and Western and Block. Same people, very different outcomes, like as in South Korea, North Korea and so on and so forth. And at the same time, very different nations, Dubai compared to Singapore or to England, very different yet, the same outcome. So it seems to me like whenever we're looking at prosperity, if a nation is prosperous, regardless of whatever other shenanigan they might be running,

whatever other operating software, they might be running for anything that's not related to business. If on the business side, they are proponents of a free market or at least base level of free markets. We know that such countries will create prosperity. So what are the aspects of the operating systems that lead to a Singapore and to a South Korea and all that kind of stuff? So can you speak to different elements that enable the toolkit for entrepreneurs?

Sure, sure. And maybe here, let me just maybe illustrate it with my own story and then I can take you back. Yes, sir. Oh my god, those are your story. No, no, no. Who are you? It's just because he started with me coming here.

You shouldn't even robot anything. And now it looks like we know he's over taught. And now it looks like, I'm not only sorry for Trump. And then you're like, there are people. And then, no, no, no. But so this is where this question, even when you asked me, how do some countries become prosperous?

That question, Lex, I had it when I was seven or so. That's when my family moved me from Senegal. For the first time of my life, I left my country, I left my continent, and I was headed to Europe. To go join my people, my family, my parents, who were there as economic migrants. My parents had migrated for a better life. As so many people have to, so many people have to coming from poorer places, coming for low income countries. Do you sell the difference? Yes.

Between the two places. I, I, how else would you call it? Here you are in Senegal, minding your own business, causing tons of trouble everywhere, you know, just being a, this being a happy, free, wrench kid, but I was. Yeah. So you were always a trouble maker, and I just know.

Okay. Life wouldn't be fun without it. And of course, I was. Yeah. So you were always a trouble maker, and I just know. Okay. Life wouldn't be fun without you. And of course, I agree. I mean, you're right. So because even you know, like, you know, like, I'll put together like front, I know there's a lot of trouble making behind you. Just really trying to keep it together.

I know you are, but with me, I'm going to totally bring it out. So just, yeah. So. So you saw the difference. Right. I saw the difference. I'm walking in here, back home, and I tell people this story because to me, it's all the difference. Right, I saw it different. I'm walking in here, back home, and I tell people this story because to me, it's a defining story.

Back home, to take a shower. It's a, it takes time. Grandma has to, you know, make the shark cold catch on a little stove like you use at, you know, when you go camping. And then she puts a pot of water on it. It boils. She takes it, puts it in a bigger bucket,

mixes it with some colder water, then we put a little pot in it and a stronger member of a family has to drag it to the shower and then there finally I can proceed to take my shower. Here I'm in Germany in the middle of the winter and my mom's like, I'm going to have a temple in your shower. I'm like, I'm not getting naked, where is the bottle? I mean, just hold it, where is the boys? The bucket of hot water. And she's like, oh, you silly, come on, just jump in. And I jump in the shower, turn the buttons, the water is coming down temperature,

I want to play, I'm like, oh, you kidding me? It's so amazing. I'd been cheated out of life, my whole life. So that's what happened. And then I, then, and then I'm like, oh, and all of these roads, they're paved roads, unlike back home, everything is like sandy. And you know, my, and all of these roads, they're paved roads, I'm like back home. Everything is like sandy.

And you know, my feet are always, as I always have to wash off when I back home and I go back home and your shoes get ruined most of the time. And I started every, and I had this question and it was just like, wow, how come they have this? And we don't. So I was not being like, oh, you know, how come they have all of this money? Oh, I was not like, oh, you know, how come they have a little bit of money?

Oh, I was not that it was just like, how come? And I think what I was alluding to was, how come life is so easy here? And back, it's not. And easy, not a negative sense. No. In a beautiful sense. Sometimes I get, you know, just having traveled through the war zone, just to come back, traveling through Europe, back to to America, it just I'll just get emotional just looking at the efficiency of things like how how easy it is how we can First of all in Ukraine you currently can't fly right the war zone just even the the transportation you said roads Yeah, the quality of roads in the United States is amazing

You said roads. Yeah, the quality of roads in the United States is amazing. Just not, you know, many of the places that Drive in Ukraine you're talking about I mean Really bad conditions of roads and I'm sure in many parts of Africa and many parts of the world is the roads even worse Right, right and outdoor, you know having a toy indoor toilet is a is a fascinatingly awesome luxury to have. It is. It is. And don't take me wrong, Lex. Do we have some great roads now in many parts of Africa?

Yes. Yes. Main arteries, great roads. You're like, whoa, this is moving. It is. Yes, we do. But definitely more today than in my time growing up. Do we have a country like Nigeria that just

birthed six unicorns last year alone? Yes. Do we have the African youth out there being so amazing and living their lives. Yes, we have all of that, but it is still unfortunately just like we're scratching the surface. And those people still are getting all of that accomplished, literally swimming from molasses. This is some of the most gross,

immoral, unfair, waste of human capital. And so that is the started with you, the seven-year-old asking, wait a minute, how do amazing people in Europe do this and the amazing people in Africa don't. Yeah, and that's a cute word amazing because fast when I realized later because and I was not always like that for me amazing and amazing right. I knew instinctively that of course we are amazing too. But so this and then the so eventually the question became how so I went from how come they have reason we don't to the country

as I'm growing up and researching because it stayed with me when I tell you I'm obsessed I'm haunted I am haunted so you can laugh all you want but it's so the question became the question became how come some countries like the United States, Singapore, or which, and some others like mine, and many others in Africa or poor, that became the question. And along the line, along the road, I continue to live in my life, wondering about this question. And I've heard all types of reasons are to supposedly why that might be the case.

Some people with a very straight face are still peddling the IQ fury, according to which. Come on darling, it's not your fault. You know, your skin color goes with a gene sequence that just doesn't allow you to be as smart as white people are. And it's not your fault, but just accept it. That stuff is still out there, it's very real. And I have to hear it. And others would say to me, oh, it's just because, you know,

you guys don't have adequate level of education. And I say, you know, maybe you gotta go save that. To most of the street sellers you go see in Senegal. You go up to any of these, to many of these street sellers in Senegal. They are waiting through cars and moving cars under the hot sun, fumes thrown at their face, Trying to sell you anything and any, that you think you might be able to use. Whether we're talking about an ironing board, to an umbrella, to Q-tips, to, you know,

toothpicks, selling you whatever you need from your car, visa street sellers, and you ask from deer. Do you have any degree? Yeah. I have this credit degree in math or in literature or whatever, some very, very educated people yet they're right there. This is what they're doing. So that's just that scale wasted human potential. Thank you. So that has to do the waste to human potential has to do now with the system with something about the laws.

She's something. Yeah, something something about sort of the things that limit or enable the entrepreneur. Yes. Because at that point, I've heard this. You know, I heard people say, yeah, your IQ is no good. Yeah, you're not, you don't have enough degrees or you're not educated. Yeah, some people would even say, is because you guys are malnourished, you're

malnourished, you need to be fed, others, oh well, maybe I give you some shoes and maybe something's gonna chant whatever. And then, so I heard all of this nonsense, Lex, but guess what? I guess what? None of a mid-sense. You know, so I heard all of this nonsense, Lex, but guess what? I guess what? None of them made sense. Do you know why I did a make sense? Because if any of that crap was true, why, oh, why is it that my parents are any other people from these places? And oh, and by the way, some people call up those places, God for second land. That's also a type of call up those places, God for Second Land. That's also the type of criteria always have to hear. When it's not just flat out,

SHIT, whole countries, from you know, one person a few years ago, president of his country. That sentiment is sometimes there. It is, it is. As I go on with my life, trying to find the answer to why are some countries like mine, poor, well, others are rich. I'm hearing all of these reasons thrown at me. And then they make no sense. Because then how come then if my parents move as it is usually anyone

else who moves from a poorer nation to a nation that's supposed to be rich, all of a sudden they get to manifest the greatest potential. So I'm starting to think this has nothing to do with a person per se, because we're talking about the same person, same background, so everything's in, name, features, everything. Now I'm starting to think maybe it doesn't have to do with the person, maybe we're talking about something

that has to do with the place that they came from or the place that they're going to. So this little thing is starting to be in my mind. Again, remember, this is not something that I woke up to overnight. I'm like, well, I got my quen- It took me for a long time and I had to face off to have many different ideologies face each other. I had to really have a reckoning literally in my heart and in my mind. So then that's what I'm thinking. It cannot be. No, no, no, it's just the same people. It has to be about the place, but then what about this place? But then even about the place,

you're thinking, again, two countries, different backgrounds, same outcome, same background, different outcome. Hmm, what is this? And then I go on, I start a comp, I am in Silicon Valley in the late 90s, early 2000s, that come boom, all of that. And I'm starting to discover this concept of this thing called entrepreneurship. You know, I'm in to discover this concept of this thing called entrepreneurship. You know, I mean Silicon Valley and just getting to experience what seems so cliché by now, but you know, people on that getting together in the back of a napkin, talking about an idea, you know, bring it out and then they go out and they talk to some end of this investor,

so it's going to invest in it, then they have a lawyer who get to, you know, put all of these stuff together and then they they have the big four CPA firms, this whole ecosystem of entrepreneurship. And then eventually this concept of entrepreneurship being this idea of creating something out of nothing. So there I am, and at some point I become an entrepreneur myself. And the way I became an entrepreneur was not like, I woke up and I'm like, I want to make money,

so I'm going to become an entrepreneur. No, and this is also another problem I have with people who have a problem with entrepreneurs or business people. Most entrepreneurs do not start a business to become rich. Most entrepreneurs start a business because they have found identified a problem that bothered them enough that they said enough is enough. I'm going to do something about it. What entrepreneurs are are people who criticize by creating. Do they always get it right? No. As a matter of fact, the failure in entrepreneurship is humongous. It's coming crazy. Path to take the entrepreneurship path. We lose our spouses. My first husband passed away as soon as I was about to sign my first

term sheet. And yet I had to keep going. What force can keep you going? After you just loved, lost the love of your life. What force keeps you going? The force of, oh, I just want to be rich. Really? When your whole world is upside down, your whole world is upside down, and you just want to quit, you just want to go meet him and join him in death. I stayed why, because of the same reason why I started my company. I stayed because the women whom I had put back to work by Venn, we're talking about some of the most vulnerable women in my country, these are women who grow the Hibiscus,

which we need to make the bissap, which is the juice of teranga. Remember, this is our national identity drink. And for the longest time, women grow this Hibiscus, but we use for the national drink, for this drink. And now that Coca-Cola, Pepsi, or all that, had made it through the marketing, but it is more cool to drink those beverages. Now there is no more market for the Hibiscus. And with that,

girls' velivety hoards of these women. And for me, that bothered me enough, because in that force, I sow two things. One was a part of my culture. We're talking about, I mean, my part of my cultural identity for Christ's sake, the juice of Taranga. You ask me, what defines you? I said Taranga. There's a juice for it. So my culture is disappearing. And at the same time, these women are sliding into abject poverty because what they used

to make no one needs anymore. So that is what got me to start a company. And the company was created just because of that. I wanted to build a company that would allow me to not only preserve this very important aspect of my cultural identity, and at the same time put these women back to work. And at the same time, put these women back to work. And maybe it's more difficult to put into words, but there's a kind of, it's a basic human spirit, where you see the place where you came from breaking apart in some kind of way, and you have the entrepreneurial fire

that dreams of helping. Yes. And that sometimes it's hard to convert that into words. You have to tell nice stories and so on, but it's the basic human desire to help. Yes. And especially when you're the size by creating, especially when you've been,

especially when, and let's face it, do we all, are we all a bundle of circumstances? Some happy, some, some worse? Yes, we are. And oftentimes I ask myself, my God, why you? Why did you, why did you get to have the opportunities that you have? What makes you different from it? Let's say even your cousin that couldn't, that is still home, trapped. Because we call ourselves trapped citizens. When you're trapped in these countries, that go nowhere, you're,

we're like a bunch of trapped citizens. So, so you see, Lex, when my husband passed away, and I wanted nothing more to do than to quit, and to send investors, I'd already said, we understand if you wanna stop. Whatever you decide to do, we'll do that. And I wanted to quit and to send investors had already said we understand if you want to stop. Whatever you decide to do will do that. And I wanted to quit. And I was actually on my way. I was in Senegal for a month trying to really get a bearing over myself. And by the end of a month I had decided I'm letting go. There is no way. The pain was too great. Nothing made sense anymore. It was too much.

So I went to see these women and I talked to the one who, you know, we're talking back then, there were 400 of them, later on we grew to 9,000. And I told the representative of all of them and I told her this is very old lady. And just looking at her, I knew I was going through some pain, but this woman has probably gone through ten times. Not that pain is like measurable, but you could tell this woman probably lost a child, as oftentimes happen in places that are lower income countries. Probably lost her husband also, probably who knows so many people lost

this part of our lives. You can see the pain. You can see the pain. Yet she's so, so dignified. She's so dignified. And that already kind of made me like, my god stop crying. But and I told her that I was quitting.

I could not look her in the eyes. And she said, look at me. I could not look her in the eyes. She said, look at me, child. And I looked at her. And she said, you know, I know you're in pain, but where your husband is, where your beloved is, is absolutely nothing but you can do for him. But for us, you can change everything. And I went back. So, that's what entrepreneurs are at their best. Does she help you find your strength? Yes. And I was weak still, but I said, you put that aside.

There's a job to do here. And I went back and I fought with everything that I had. And this company that I started in my kitchen became this company that had the who's who of the beverage world. With at some point Roger and Rico, the chairman of PepsiCo sitting on my board, on my board, yeah, Rico, the chairman of PepsiCo, sitting on my board, on my board,

Yeah, I went back because of that. So the reason why I tell this story for me is important, because the world needs to understand. That there's a viable way of caring and of being part of a solution for the lesser fortunate. In terms of not keeping them where they are and we're like the Savior is coming and giving them food and all that. No, no, no, no, no. But it's like just like the leg up I got in my life give somebody else a leg up What are the things you're fighting against in Africa when you try to build a business like that? so then we're building this company and

Back then this was in 2004, but it was an I've built my first company We had to have two sister companies, one there, one here. So the one in Africa was about the whole supply chain. And the one in America was, you know, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we And then at some point I look around and I'm like, wait a second.

Here, back in the days, before we had, you know, like they would talk, they would say, oh, we have this one-stop shop for business registration. But the truth is, very quickly, you can set up an LLC in the US. We're talking about less than, even then, less than, you know, today's super fast, 20 minutes online, done. Back then, it was, you know, less than a few hours to get it done. Um, cost you almost nothing. We're talking about a few hundred dollars, you know, three to three hundred fifty depending which state you are.

For LLC, starting a basic company takes almost no time. No time, no time, no money almost. You don't have to know a guy that knows a guy that, uh, slips some money to the politician and so on. No, no, no,, almost. You don't have to know a guy that knows a guy that slips some money to the politician and so on. No, none of that stuff. None of that stuff. And so at the same time, also things like Envisa can take you even to today's day.

Okay, Lex, I don't know if you have employees on parrots or anything like that. But do you have to go every month, or anybody listening to us right now? Do they have to go every single month to three different type of agencies, like governmental agencies, to do one step. This one is basically you're gonna go and give them your retirement money,

like you know, like the pension part of the salary that you took out from your employee, you have to go to this agency and put that application through. So you leave that money behind, then you go to another agency, this one is for their health, you know, care, whatever, you have three of those places where you have to literally go to in person three times, three places every single month to drop off these, you know, this paperwork. Do you have to do that anywhere in the US? I mean, do you do we have that situation anywhere that you know off right now? that situation anywhere that you know off right now? No. And do you think that's business friendly, or do you think it's cumbersome and business? And that's not just cumbersome sort of physically,

it's cumbersome psychologically, that there's a feeling like the system around you, yeah, there's a feeling like you're trapped. It's a feeling like the system doesn't want you to succeed, versus a system that does want you to succeed. Exactly. You're in a country like we're in Texas. If you make less than a million bucks in revenues a year, you know, all you do five minutes, it takes you, you're filing,

you know, your state, your franchise tax. That's it. It's below that number. Tell them what it is. Then you have nothing to give them or anything like that. You move on. Us, even if I make this much, there is a minimum tax that you have to pay, which is a thousand dollars in Senegal right now. For the listener, McGat was holding up a zero. You make no money. You still have to pay. You don't have to pay. So, and then, oh, let me walk you for what happened to me when we had to try to get the electricity hooked up on our first office. So, we go, they say, oh, first you have to apply, you know, like, you normally, you have to apply. Then we apply, we pay the money. Remember again, here you have to also go, this

was like, you know, you go to the office and you pay. And then we wait, and we wait, and we wait. And when I say we wait, I'm not talking, but we waited 24 hours, we waited 48 hours, a month, two months, three months, four months, five months, you go, you send your assistant, she goes, she comes back, well,, we send it to Wade. At some point, I'm like, I gotta go there. So I go there and I have to speak to the head of a district for, you know, and I'm just like going on and on and on about how we've been delayed.

This is gonna be a problem. We have to produce everything is delayed. And I'm, I'm, I'm just losing my business. We already pre-sold some of these products to our customers. I got to something is to happen. So at some point the gentleman looks at me. He's like, lady, look over there. I look over there.

I see a pile of paper this high. We're talking about maybe hundreds of applications. Each one of them is a single single single sheet. Each single sheet is an application for getting the electricity. And he says, do you see that? I said, yeah. And I said, look over there.

I look over there to be the side. I see two meters. He's like, each of these applications needs one of those. How many do you see? I said, two. Then I knew I was in trouble. And then I said, what do I do? And he said, Lady, it's not at our level. And I agreed with him. It was not on his level. But eventually, and you know, by now you can tell that I pretty much get what I need because, and at that point, what I did was not frighten him

or anything like that. I didn't even pay bribe or anything, but you could see when people pay bribes. Because when you have a pie like that, then the only way to advance your file and that by the way happens even at the passport office. You come, you apply for your passport, which is your right they, they forced us to have passport, it's your right, it's a sentence to have a passport. And even there, if you want your yours to keep going through the process, you have to bribe somebody so we can go even the face it's supposed to go let alone faster So here I'm thinking I have a problem and at that point I did what I do I

Talked to him about all the things I was trying to do. I explained to him. Why I'm here. Why I'm trying to do this and even him said Lady someone like you you have no You have no reason to even be here. You could be back in America, living your life, let me the loka. You don't have to be here. So that I think gained a lot of respect. And I said, if you don't do, if you don't help me with this, I understand I shouldn't be of a priority or anything like that, but I beg you, I beg of you, I need, I need for this to go on this week.

And he said, okay, that's how I got my meter. One of us two meters became mine. So Vinnie said, but we have a problem. And he said, okay, that's how I got my meter. One of us two meters became mine. So, Vinnie said, but we have a problem. And I said, what? He said, well, the truck, we need a truck to be here to do it because, because of where you are from the pole, we need long cable lines to get it all done. But the truck is, I don't know where the truck was,

because they had this one truck for I don't know how many customers. So I go to the mayor of a town with whom I'm quite friends, but you see, I know people, but it shouldn't be this way. So I go to the mayor of a town and I said, mayor, it happens to have a same name as me first, last same, same, but except he's the ugly one. I'm the pretty one because you know, he's a, you know,'m the pretty one because he's not working. He's a... You know? You know? Right. That's so people can tell you apart.

He's pretty strong, right? Exactly, I'm the pretty one and he's whatever. So I got to a mirror and I'm like, Mayor, how did you help? You need to help me with this? He's like, now what? And I explained to him and he's like, okay, you can take the truck from the city hall.

I'll tell the guys that they can allow you to have it and then you guys can do this. And then we arrive there. Guess what? I thought I was done Lex, but I was not done. Because now the electricity company, by the way, whom we paid, everything was there. They've been sitting in our money for nine months by now. Well, we need a ladder long enough to, you know, like one of the super, super professional ladders that normally the next week companies have They there's was in some of a village and they didn't know if it was gonna be back for another three days of four days I said are you kidding me? He's like no, so I call mayor again. I'm second mayor

Do you have a ladder and I explained and he said and that's how I got my My electricity hooked up. Otherwise, I would still be waiting. So Lex, you add all of these things together. And also the fact that in my country, by the way, even labor laws are so stringent. Basically, you are married to a employee for good or for bad. And some people say, oh no, you're not married for good or for bad. Except that it will cost you a lot of time and money to get rid of any of them.

It doesn't matter of a circumstances. Do you think I really, and then to promote really need to hear something like that? You know, the head of the Aileau, I had an argument with him at the UN, and I said to him, listen, and you listen to me very well. The reason if you want to protect employees As you claim everything you're doing is to protect employees

A you know Better for human being when I am in terms of making sure wanting to make sure that people are tweeted right and fairly But last time I checked Google for example is not offering their employees chef cooked meals super healthy Anything they want a feeding them for a morning till evening, having some, you know, babysitters or, you know, having health care, childcare on site, all of these perks that come on top of really cozy salaries. It did not happen because you, the ILO, told them, you have to do this. It happened because there are enough jobs created around that now you're in an employees' market.

And employers have to fall all over themselves to attract the best talent among us. That's how it's done. And not with your nonsense that you're imposing me right now, which the only results you're going to get, like in my country, do you know what we have to show for all of these, the fact that the Senegalese employees, the most protected employee on paper in the world? Well, we're one of the 25 poorest countries in the world. That's what it got us. So let's try to untangle this. So there's a system in place. There's a momentum of that system. Like you said, ladies, it's not my level, which is for somebody who grew up in the Soviet Union,

at least echoes some of the same sounds I heard from people I knew there. It's kind of this helpless feeling like, well, this is just part of the system, this gigantic bureaucracy. And the corruption that happens is just like the only way to get around, to get anything done. And so the corruption grows, maybe could you speak to the corruption? Is there, is to what degree is their corruption in Senegal and Africa? And how do we fix it? So when you said to which degree is there this corruption, I will respond to you the same, I respond to people. I say, yeah, we have corruption and it's almost as bad as in Chicago.

Right? So now, what I want people to understand when it comes to corruption, it's because we are misguided with corruption We think corruption is the root cause of problems when corruption is simply a symptom of the deeper root problem In this case If you make the laws so senseless, meaning, let me give you an example of senseless laws, every time I have to import something in my country, I have a business where making lip balms in this case and offers skin care products. Some ingredients I'm able to find in the country are the standard that I need in order to remain

competitive. Because, for example, our products are sold at Whole Foods Market, you can understand it's a pretty sophisticated and really, you know, they don't just put anybody on the shelves. But the thing is, it means that on the other hand, my inputs has to be right. So out of those, some, we have seven ingredients, seven items that need to come from abroad to go into the making of this product, some packaging and some raw material. But guess what? Like, for five of them, I am paying a 40% tariff, I have of them, I am paying a 40% tariff, and for me, I have a two, almost 70% tariff. That I call senseless laws.

These tariffs are senseless. The corruption is just a symptom. They reveal that something is broken about the laws. Exactly. And the laws are so taxation, this kind of restricting laws, like laws that slow down the entrepreneurial momentum. They do. They do.

Because in this case, when my product comes, what do people have to do? Because every time, if you add 40%, you're basically on the other end. So every time you add, if let's say my product normally costs a dollar and with 40% by every time I'm done, I had to pay, I had, now it's costing me 140. By the time it arrives in my warehouse, in my manufacturing facility, it's now at 140 because of a tariff I left behind.

That 40% you added to it. Do you know how much it's going to add to my final cost? But once the product is finished, I have to sell it to the customer. I have to sell it for $1.60 more because of that $0.40 extra you took from me. In order for me at the end of the day, to have some type of profits because profits at the end of the day is the blood of a business. There are two people on misguided. They say, oh, you dirty,

greedy business people, and it's all about profit, profit, profit. You know, I belong to this organization called I'm a board member on the conscious capitalism. It is the largest organization of purpose driven businesses and entrepreneurs. The type of proposal you're about, we've started our businesses because we see something that needs to be taken care of in society. Whole food market is one of them. The container store, you know,

all of these companies that are beloved in the US that you can hear of, we believe that the end goal of business is purpose. But in order to do purpose, you have to have profits to stay alive. And the best way for people to think of profits so that they're not all twisted about it. Lex, if I asked you, what's your goal in the world? You're probably going to tell me, you dream, you're gonna talk to me about what you're doing right now

and how you want to be uniting, or you want a more harmonious world, you want human flourishing. That's what you're working towards. That's what you say to me. You're not gonna say, well, my biggest goal in the world is to produce as many red blood cells as I can. Except you need to produce those, otherwise, no legs.

And if no legs, no one working. Yeah. You know what I mean? So that's also people need to stop with his whole profit. Do we have some psychopaths among us? Yeah, one person of us in this world of psychopaths in every field, anywhere you look. And surely you'll find that the entrepreneur's world as well.

Yeah, so we have one person of us who are psychopath for sure. But do they define the rest of us absolutely not and thankfully not? So let's just be clear on that. So here, my, you charge me 40% tariff, which is outrageous, then you're forcing me to sell it for $1.60 more, then my competitor who does not have to go for that nonsense because she's an American woman who is operating in America

and she doesn't have that nonsense put on her. So now on this market, competing against this woman, I to I. So if we're selling the same value product, mine costs $1.60 more simply because of some stupid rules from back home, then guess who's going to stay in business and who doesn't? See they want to talk about equality. That's the type of equality I want to see. The playing love of a level the playing field has to be leveled. I told you English is a Forflanggood. So it's two people talking Between us. Maybe we have this English thing figured out So the idea of capitals the idea of conscious capitalism,

is the thing that enlarged part enables this level playing field. That's what we want. So what you're trying to say, so here, so when I talked about census laws, that's an example. So when you make the tariffs so high that you're going to render me non-competitive, then that's where for people who might make sense. When the product arrives at Port, they say, hey, I give you this.

When I give you maybe 10% of the price or 5%, it's surely not 40%, but you are happy with it. You have a government official. That's what we call a bribe. And me, I'm like, hey, I saved myself money. And also, I saved myself time. But you see, if a law is where you pay 5%, or even the 10% that I just left behind, or nothing, you come, you pay, you move on.

Because who has a business of fooling around and staying behind? And no, you do that when it's actually makes sense to do that. So I'm not sitting here telling people, I engage in unlawful practices. In my case, because I'm around saying the things I'm saying right now,

so I'm a target. You have to do things clearly and I believe in doing things that way. So what I had to do was go to the ask again, Mayor, we have a problem. Mayor's, whenever he sees me, he's like, now what? So I'm like, mayor We have a problem mayors whenever he sees me is like now what So I say now it's the customs and and it's like what do you want me to do? I said do you know anybody at customs? I need to hire up at customs because I got to explain to them

What's going on here? They all know of course. But I think they're not always maybe understanding or maybe they understand and in this case he understood. So we went and he's like, yeah, I know this is not this is not very there. And I said, what do we do now? And I saw him going through binders and binders on in his office because he's going to try to go and look where in the law can we find something that can help me escape these rules and you know the best he found Lex was oh well here see this one if you've been in business for two years then we can allow you there is a special term for this French technical we can allow you to bring

your raw material, but you have to tell us exactly how much you're bringing, and it has to match your formulation because you know, they don't want you to bring in more that we need and maybe sell some of that to the rest of the market and they didn't make their money on it. So there it means I have to give them my recipe. Imagine Coca-Cola being asked to give their secret sauce to government officials in a country that you can't even know what might happen. Let alone even in business you don't do that.

I mean trade secrets or trade secrets. But here you ask to be putting it in front of some people you don't know where it's going to go after that. Because there they get to see okay, her recipe calls for X amount of Candidilla wax, X amount of coconut oil. Okay, and on top of that, we have to think about how much porridge might be or not, because again, we don't want her to buffer the other way.

So you have to get naked in front of them in terms of your recipe, which might end up only going to be somewhere tomorrow, maybe competitive competition, or maybe even them, they start a business and they compete with you because we've seen that. So you have to do that and then each time find out, fill out a paperwork, get the approval, then it can come in.

So when it can come in, you don't have to pay the tax or in by the way, you only have one year, one year to make this product and get it out. And all of it needs to be back out. Because if it's any of its days here, you're going to pay the taxes that we held up. So you're basically forced by these losses laws to be dishonest. If you want to proceed. All of this was so cumbersome because it means more paperwork, paperwork everywhere,

maybe having to disclose your thing. So me in my case, what I did is, you know, this person said, okay, we're going to see how we can, how we can work with you. But for the first two years, we were more or less in the gray area. Yeah, so, so what does it mean? Even gray area is good. Yeah, but, but, but what does it mean in a situation like that? Yeah. When everyone amests with you, it means they can come.

And they will look and they will find something. So it means that every day I'm trying to do business, I'm running the risk of being harassed and or maybe even put in jail depending on what it is. I mean, you're an incredible person because it seems like there's two ways to change this. Become president or gain power in the country and to try to change the laws,

which seems really difficult to do. And the other way is, fight through the laws and create the business anyway, build the business community. And through that method, create a huge amount of pressure. That's changed your loss. You're totally getting it with your last part because this is the other thing. And this is where I get so upset sometimes with my fellow Africans because they get so disgusted by what they're seeing, right?

And I think the answer is to go for politics. Let's go be president. Let's go be this. Let's go be this. Let's go be that. And we're gonna change everything. I see that in the US too. People thinking that presidents have all of his power. Do you know what's the least power in government?

The president. I mean, people don't get that. Your best bet, if you're going to, if you're in system going into politics, stick to the local level. That's where all the skeletons are buried and hidden. And that's where you can make the most impact local level. I know it's not shiny. I know it's not signing, but that's where it's at.

So if you must go into politics, but there, there's another way. So in my case, what I do is two things. I preach and I practice. I preach when I'm here talking to you about this, I'm preaching. I am sharing with people that is which I found and by the way the answer was there. I was doing these two businesses realizing the difference in treatment of the doing business environment of the US compared to a doing business environment of Senegal and at first I was like of course us everything is messed up it's because we're poor country but when I started to put two and two together,

I'm like, you're poor because you have no money, at least not enough money to take care of your basic needs. You have no money because you have no source of income. Where does a source of income come from for most of us? It comes from a job, doesn't it? And then some people sometimes at my UC Berkeley class, they say, oh no, it comes from government too. I'm like, I would like to think that even if you work

for a company, you're gonna be paid something, right? And they're like, yeah. And then even before I can say something, they're like, oh, yeah, because that money we used to pay our public officials comes from taxes, you know, employers, employees, we go back to the private sector for most of it, for where this whole thing is created. So it's clear, your poor because I have no money, no money because no source of it, from where this whole thing is created. So, it's clear, you're poor because I have no money,

no money because no source of income. Source of income for most of us is a job. We're talking about, so where do jobs come from, the private sector, primarily small and medium-sized enterprises, then don't you think that we should make it easy, that we should have friendly doing business environment. And also a lot of the, a lot of it comes not just in the small, medium-sized businesses, but I think a lot of the value is created from new ones being launched.

Yes. Right, it's not just like me, like saving somehow through regulation, the ones that are already there. No. Right. It's not just like me like saving somehow through regulation, the ones that are already there. No, no, it's like letting the market, letting the new better ideas flourish. Yes. It's about what I mean by doing business environment is all the things that you and I talked about earlier. Even the access to self electricity is part of a doing business, but doing business. So basically when I've discovered all of that, when I put all of his dots together, then I'm like, well, I guess business and it makes sense, Lex.

If you want to grow tomatoes, you're going to have to have two things. One is a good seed, right, that has good attributes. Then you're going to have to have a good environment for it. Is the soil the right one? What's your pH level? All of us good nutrients that you're putting in it. Is it in a place that has tons of sun? How much time exposure or not? The climate engineer is going to be cold, not, not. You can't have some beautiful tomatoes in the middle

of Siberia, last time I checked. So same thing here. You know, Muhammad Yunus, the noble laureate for peace, said, poor people are bonsai people. They're the same people. If you put them in the normal natural, a friendly habitat where they can thrive, they become the tallest tree in the forest. Poor people are bonsai people. So you see the tiny pot you put around the bonsai tree? That's the tiny pot that's created by giving me such a hostile business environment

that basically we're put together by the set of laws that you have put, that basically I have to jump through as a business person practicing business in my country. If you turn that environment into a friendly environment where I am not married to my employees, I have flexibility of the labor laws are simple straightforward, clean, where the tax code is very simple. It's not worth truck loads of laws. Like in my country, it's so complicated.

You have to hire a CPA which costs more money. And even them tell them, girl, we're going to make some mistakes. They don't talk to me like that. It's, you know, we don't say I mean, go up. They shouldn't. They better not. But they say, whatever they say. I'm scared.

I'm scared. You know, we're going to, but bottom line is, we're going to make mistakes. This thing is so complicated, we're going to make mistakes. So which means my ass is on the line. So anyway, so if a tax code was so simple, straightforward, like it is maybe in Texas, where up till a threshold, you owe me nothing, go online, five minutes, fill out your taxes, you're compliant, keep building your business, because that's what we need from you.

If you made it so easy and straightforward, then you know what, that's when you get all of these people. Lex, what you're talking about, saying, you know what? My name is Aminata, and I live in the middle of nowhere, Senegal. But you know what? I've got this great idea which is for this really hot, nice hot sauce. But I know the Americans are going to love them. Hearing that hot sauce is a big thing.

Let me bring it to them. But everything is there for you to jump into the ring of entrepreneurship. You don't have to know someone like Maguard. You don't have to even have the ability to sell yourself maybe like I can sometimes. You are someone with a great idea. You're willing to work hard for it and pour everything you've got into it.

Guess what? It's fair. You can get into the race. You can be a dreamer and you can be a dreamer in a rural little village and then that has ripple effects throughout the entire country. Young kids growing up, I want to be the next ex, yes, whatever.

And it doesn't have to be the next Steve Jobs. That seems really far, far away. All levels, it's at all levels. You create local heroes because representation matters. Right? So and we are so badly in need of that. local heroes because representation matters. Yes. Right? So, and we are so badly in need of that. And so that's what all the things that have been stolen from us as long as things remain

the same. So once I found out that basically, at the end of the day, the answer is economic freedom. And that when it comes to that, the indexes, economic indexes that measure that, whether it's the doing business index ranking of the World Bank or the Frazier Economic Freedom index of the Heritage Foundation, when you look at all of those indexes and others, what do they have in common? One after another, they show you that it is harder to do business in almost anywhere in Sub-Saharan Africa than it is per se anywhere in Scandinavia.

So it is telling you that Scandinavian nations, that socialists Americans tend to love so much and take as an example over there too, they're showing you that they don't understand what's going on really in Scandinavia. That Scandinavia is more capitalist, Scandinavian nations are more capitalist than almost any Sub-Saharan African nations. Ultimately, the political systems actually don't even matter nearly as much as the private sector being able to operate the machinery of capitalists. There you go. There you go. There you go. And it's almost like, like I said, it's almost like it's own little widget within it.

You can have whatever type of society you wanna practice, you wanna exercise at whatever level you want to. But if you're serious about becoming a middle to high incommission, there is no other pathway that we know of at this point. And you know what made me super excited about that beyond having finally found my answer. I have to tell you when I found that answer,

I literally fell to my knees. It was a type of feeling that, you know, if something is not well with you, whether it's physical or mental, something is not well with you, whether it's physical or mental, something is not well, you're not well. And you go around and you go to a so-called specialist, some of them, you know, but you're going around for years, going around, trying to get help for your ailment. And here they don't know.

Here they tell you things that you can't tell why but you just know it's not true There there's there that and it's it's going on for years after year after year and finally you meet this one person and boom It's there Not only the liberation But also this whole new world that comes with it. You know, I'm still ill, but guess what? There's a path forward. We know that.

I'm going to have a lot of work to do. But there's hope. Right? And you're the beacon of hope, actually, for a lot of people in that part of the world. And those beacons are actually really necessary. So not only is their hope, but you can become, I mean, the beacon for your people, your home, this power that you see, that you feel all around to become, to escape the feeling of being a trap. Is there a device you can give to people that, to young girls and boys dreaming somewhere in Africa, of how to change the world? That's right. And by the way, I want to say, there are better beacons than me. I just

happen to be someone who has the chance of talking to you right now. And one of my goals is to open the same doors that were opened for me because together our voice, there's such amazing stories out there. And so bigger beacons, better beacons out there. One thing here for me, the reason why I do what I'm doing right now and it's almost to a point of self-destructing my own health, I feel invested with such the mission of I have been afforded with truth so it is my moral duty to try to take it around. I know I sound people sometimes they say, when I listen to, I feel like I'm talking to a priest.

And I'm like, because the gospel, I receive the gospel. So anyway, but the thing is, Lex, who tells you these things? To these days, when they talk about the poverty of Africa, what do they talk about? They sit in front telling you, oh yeah, it's because of colonialism,

it's because of racism, It's because of imperialism. It's because they're stealing, you know, raw material. Blah, blah, blah. Is any of those culp, you know, like guilty to some level of where we are today, one of maybe part of a reason where we are today? Maybe, maybe, is that the only reason or the overwhelming reasons? No, is that unsurmountable? Absolutely not. So for me, don't stay in that place of that steals and robs you of your agency.

So I think it's important for people to get the right diagnosis as to why we are where we are. Because what you and I just talked about, the mainstream does not talk about this when they even talk about Africa in terms that, you know, are not the usual suspect of, oh, famine is building over there, wars be along over here,

oh, we're having Ebola is coming, all of that stuff. Even when they were talking about the monkeypox, which at first, you know, in this wave, it started with white people in Europe. Well, even in many newspapers you pull out, it's black people which make monkey pucks on their skin.

I'm like, wait a second, this time around, we did not start with us. So why are we always showing us when it's right now happening to white people? You know? So all of that is happening. So for me, the thing is, we, the world, simply right now, does not have the right diagnosis as to why this continent right now, despite all of its riches, because Lord knows it's

got riches, starting it with its young population. 75% of the population in my country is below the age of 25 years old. So when we're talking, I know we're talking about, you know, repopulation, you know, it's, it's an important, we're going to have to go for that. Maybe you'll get me going about comments and I don't know, but anyway, um, so here, my point is, a, we need to write diagnosis as to why this continent is the poorest continent in the world. Despite its riches starting with its young people, over natural resources, diversity in land, people, cultures, languages, everything

that make for great ingredients for awesomeness. Despite all of that, we are the poorest region in the world. People need to know that the reason why that is, it's because we also happen to be the most other regulated region in the world. At the end of the day, what Africa, and I dare to say Africa here, and treated as one, we are 54 countries, 55 different in how you count, yet we almost for a tiny minority of these countries, we almost all lack one of the most crucial freedoms that they are. If you are serious about prosperity building, we lack economic freedom. And economic freedom is the thing that unlocks that human potential,

the young people just for them to run, to run with their ideas, to start businesses, or to start initiative. It doesn't have to be for profit all the time, right? But it is, it is, it is this thing that gets you to get up and go and do something criticized by creating. Young people are naturally wired to want to criticize by creating. They're not sitting around waiting or complaining usually unless you put them in a tiny box and they have no other way to go.

And in this situation, what they do, you know, let's talk about pre-colonial Africa of four favours before slavery ever happened. They were black people in the continent. You see, when we talk about the story of black people and Africans, you know, black people in Africa, for most of us, even me, I noticed that unconsciously it starts with slavery. But you're like, no, we were there before. Before what man ever sat foot? Where are we? What were we doing in our diversity? What economic systems were we running on? And then you realize that for most of them, they were free marketers and they were very much on the free trade, on the free enterprise side. So even that is a reinforcement,

this is a place where we do not understand our history. So proper diagnosis, Africa is a poorest region in the world because it happens to be the most overrace regulated region in the world lacks economic freedom. Number two, what do we do about that? We got to become serious about reforms, economic reforms so that we can become beacons of free markets. Just like the Asian Tigers, that's what the Asian Tigers did. They had to become serious. Singapore, Taiwan, you know, South Korea, those guys had to become serious about the free markets. Lee Kwon Woo, you know, when, you know, he's just like, we got to something, and he looked around and he realized at some point, we got to make these reforms.

And he went on to that journey of reforms, making his country one of the most free market, you know, countries in the world, and voila, the magic happened. Back in the firties of the stock market crash, and the great depression and everything, the world, and with, the world's, and we've all realized that we're told to the world coming from the Soviet Union, Stalin, while they were

starving and dying over there, but oh no, you know, I mean, the Duranty was telling the world that, oh no, no, everything is going well, nobody's dying when we know now, and getting police prices based on this stuff. But then the world went on believing that, oh no, capitalism failed. This is this this this this you know crash that you had in the in the in the stock market is proof. This is what least stage capitalism produces. You guys always have your big ups and downs. But that time it was so hard on people that they're like we're done with this. And at the same time we're told that lies coming out of a Soviet Union that supposedly their communism was doing just fine.

And you're at the point where the free market concept almost died. And it's the Asian tigers who kind of helped bring that idea back to life. They're success having used the free markets. And so for me, we've got to make a new commitment to the free markets on this so for me, we got to have, we got to make a new commitment to the free markets on this continent if we want to go anywhere, if we want to go anywhere.

And the timing is perfect because the young people, there's a, there is a kind of freedom for that revolutionary free markets in this whole space. Exactly. And by the, you said something, oh, say that again, because I want to tell you what I'm hearing in that. Because something's really cool. Say it again. Come on, Lex. I don't know which part. You said this.

This is my second one. I'm going to go to. No, you said you said there's something revolutionary in that. Because you know how young people are attached to a revolution. And how you know, I understand, look, look, Lex, I understand. And I am willing to give the benefits of a doubt to

some of these socialists who came to it because they had to witness some of the horrors of, you know, of their times, you know. There's a revolution in Spain behind that. It's ultimately criticized by crazy. Exactly. Exactly. But violent revolution is never the answer. But that's what they went for in 1789 in France, you know, French revolution. Um, and then lay and you know, marks and angles, you know, they're promoting these ideas that usually for them justifies violent revolution. Lenin, all of

these people, the I am with them when they say that they want to see equal rights for people. Of course, I don't agree with there. Therefore, we need to push for equal outcomes. Equal rights is right, but equal outcomes is not right. But I am with them all the way to equal rights, but this is where the two paths go this way. And also, they're none the fact that they have no issue with violent revolution. People get killed. You know, people get put in gulags and people get that's not right. So what you just said here just gives me goosebumps because there is revolution in the free markets.

But that's the type of revolution we want. The revolution that comes from people creating, criticizing by creating is one of the best forms of revolution. If you ask me, that's the most sexy way of revolution. Criticize by creating. But what? You're going to go shoot people or be like, what's his name? The Che Guevara, who tells you, I love, it's in writing. I love nothing more than to fry the brain of a man with his gun, really? Well, in terms of sexy, there is power in that message of the oppressor, the abuser,

the enemy that has abused their power, they need to be destroyed. And there's power in the message of that violence. Unfortunately, the lessons of history show that the violence one doesn't work, but it does the following. There is something about human nature as the Oakley-Shay goes that power corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. It's the people who are in charge of committing that violence. It does something to their head, the first person you kill, the second person you kill. For some reason, you lose your ability, the compassion for other humans. Even if you began as a revolutionary, as the Soviets did, fighting for the worker, for the rights

and the basic humanity of the people that really do the work, you lose the plot somehow because of the violence. So in that way, it seems like the lesson, at least of this part of the human history until the robust echo is that the economic freedom, free markets, and protecting those and allowing anyone from your country to dream and to make that dream a reality by creating it with as few sort of roadblocks as possible. Exactly. So that's why for me, the message is very clear is what we talked about today. The reason why Africa is the first region of the world

is because it happens to be the most over-regulated region in the world. And for some people who might be put up by it because they're like, oh, she's talking about less than fair. No. Let me put it maybe in a way that you can understand. Do you think that it should be as easy for any person in Africa, for any entrepreneur in Africa to enter price, then it is for any person in Scandinavia to enter price? If your answer is yes, which I would hope it is, then you have a moral obligation to work with me to make my country and as a whole, my continent more free markets.

It's that simple. At that point, there's no like, yes, but on the other hand, no. And it's for me under question and I yet have to find somebody who claims to say no. If you say no, then we have a whole other problem, I'm not even talking to you at that point anymore. So, yeah. So it's just to clarify, you know, there's a perception in some reality that the Scandinavian countries have elements of socialism and their politics and their society

and even in their economics. So at the very least, Africa should have, in terms of economic indices, should be as free as the Scandinavian countries. You're just giving that example. I'm economically free, yes. Because if a Scandinavian, they do have a subsidized welfare system, that's what

a more socialized welfare system. But the way they make the money is very much the way of the free markets. So how you make your money, and then there's how you maybe decide as a country to redistribute it. as a country to redistribute it, right? And so even there, even in Scandinavia, again, yes, they have more economic freedom. So then from there, like where we go is, my job and my goal is for every single African, young and old, to know what I have come to learn. We are not doomed. It's not over for us.

We will never catch up. The time for catch up is gone. But guess what? We've got a strong, strong possibility and chance to leapfrog. And leapfrog we will. It is still time. But for that to happen, like I said, we need to know what we just talked about today, because that is not what the mainstream keeps us abreast with. When you go to the World Bank, they don't necessarily work along these lines. There's still, it's not, when you go to universities, I will ask you, MIT, the MIT Econ department, or even some of most of the professors, are they free market oriented? We find that oftentimes in academia, there is a strong anti-captus bias. There is a strong anti-fremarket bias.

So this is a problem. This is a problem. We cares about the economists anyway. So we move forward. In MIT, the spirit of the entrepreneur burns bright, not in the economics department, because they just write op-ed articles, but in the dreamers, the young undergrads that actually build something. No, I get that. But then we cannot be stifling their efforts by putting these artificially made regulations and laws that stand in the way and clip their wings. So that's why when

you were saying, what advice do you give to them? The advice I give to them is each one of them, they have to pay attention to this discourse we just had. I don't ask anybody to agree with me on face value. Go back, do like I had to do. I come very much from the left of the left if you can believe that. But I had to have my own intellectual journey. And in this case, my intellectual journey was very much complemented by my own life, having to build these companies on two separate continents,

and having to, I was, I had front row seat of the differences. At first, I thought it was this way just because we're poor, then therefore we messed up, and therefore it's like this. But eventually I learned that no, we're poor because we lack economic freedom, and if the country allows its citizens, the economic freedom to enterprise, then they become rich. So I had it upside down, you see. And so it's important for people to know that. So number one, know your facts because your facts will empower you. In this case, I like to use that word.

Facts will empower you and they will even furthermore, they will power you and power and power you because empower is like inside and it's like I push you forward and up. So that's what it does to know the facts. And then go on and look around you. Where are the best practices of this? Who is the cutting edge of a free markets? Where's done in a way there? People don't necessarily be left behind

or anything like that. We are in 2022 for Christ's sake. We don't have to do entrepreneurship the same way maybe was done 50 years ago, a hundred years ago when as a community, as a people, we were maybe less enlightened because of our times, right? We can update this thing and move forward,

but update is definitely not build back, build back, what do they call it, build back new or whatever they're calling it, the WF, you know, like whatever, whatever nonsense and you know stuff they're smoking over there. It's not that. There are some principles that are universal and that stand a test of time. Those we have to keep and on top add the new things we learn from from our times and from life. So that's what I want them to know. Learn your facts, be empowered and powered.

And then look around, think about the, and look to see where the best practices are around the world because the world is yours. You might be African but the world is yours. So stop this nonsense of, oh well, it's done by white people, so we're not gonna do it. Get the best that Exist in humanity for what you're trying to solve and on top of that put your own twist

Right Bitcoin is all of ours to take Bitcoin is not the white man's thing so there for oh come on You know because you know we have a misguided pride We're not gonna use Bitcoin because it's white man's tap. Bitcoin is Matthew edit. Math is universal. So it belongs to all of us. There's no color. We exactly in in the space of economics, in space of ideas, ideas, and there's a chance to leap frog to exactly, which is really, really powerful.

Exactly. Because here we will leap frog and let's, I'm not crazy. This is, this is going to happen. You mark my words But it's going to happen if as many people hear what we're talking about today because at some point The solution is not going to come. It's not me. It's not This is going to come from a wisdom of a crowd. This is why I love the crowd There's no better wisdom than the crowd and that's also why I believe in the free markets. There's content of emergent order.

There's no way, there's no central planning that is smart enough, that has the level of intel that street-level people have. Trying to create something. It's just, we just have to be humble. There's just something at the bottom of a pyramid that just bubbles up and happens. They're the best. I think the cynicism, the idea that people are dumb is at the core of a lot of things that prevent the flourishing of society. You know, this kind of anecdotally people are like,

yeah, everyone is stupid and people say that jokingly. But the reality is, people are incredible. They have the capacity for kindness, for love, for innovation, for brilliance, in all kinds of dimensions. You might suck a math, but you might be amazing at carpentry. You have to find that thing.

And there's something about, when there's a freedom to find that thing, and people interact to get excited about shit together and then they build. If you look at authoritarian at places that limit that freedom at the core, I think, is the idea that people are dumb. Let us take care of everything. We'll come up with the rules and the regulations because people are too dumb to manage things themselves. And that, and then that idea builds, builds on top of itself where you think that they're the entire populace is much lesser than the wise sages sitting at the top. Then you add violence at top of that, and at least the corruption and to corrupting it's just the human mind of the leaders.

And the whole thing is, is becomes a jam mess. The antidote to that is economic freedom. But people have a freedom to enterprise and look, like so when we allow for that to happen, have you looked around lately and look at the level of niche that has happened in this country? I mean, you have clubs where you have places where people are into guitar strings, you know, like some of them. Like it's all about guitar strings. And others, it's all about these best cupcakes. And others, it's all about this new crypto thing over here.

And others like, hair, best, you know, wait, it's when you allow us because seven billion geniuses each one of us, I believe came to this world with something, something that only he or her processes and that is the genius and it is their contribution to the human problem. When you think about your identity today, so it's all started in Africa just like it did for the entirety of the human species There's a bit of European flavor in there a little little French Silicon Valley you're now In part a Texan there's here you really are an American so but you're also an African

Who are you when you look at a mirror when you think about yourself when you listen when everything gets quiet You listen to your heart. Who are you is can you figure out that puzzle? That's a very interesting question because It's been a long time. haven't asked myself. I have before. What I have found is I think who I am today has been for sure shaped by I call it Dakar Paris on Francisco, Dakar is on the go Paris, France and San Francisco primarily. And now yeah, I think I might want to ask you guys a little bit of tax in India. How do you say Texas in French?

Texas. Texas. Yeah. So Austin, Texas. Austin, Texas in French? Texas. Texas. Yeah. Oh, still in Texas. Austin Texas. Austin Texas. Austin Texas.

It's easy. Not that quite as good as Texas. Austin Texas. Yeah. Yeah. Us. Us. Us.

Texas. Yeah. So, um. You. I was formed by those three. I have to say that what I enjoy from my sonnigalies roots are our commitment to peace, love and tolerance, very much.

And Teranga obviously. And I like that it's a culture that's very much about reverence. It's with big on reverence. I don't think you could ever hear me tell an older person, especially not my parent or my grandma or anybody like that, for us to be able to tell an older person, that's not true or you're lying or never crossed my mind because that's the most disrespectful thing you can think of the

most irreverent thing you can think of. It doesn't mean that you have to agree with everything that's said but there's a way to disagree. There's a way to push back that doesn't have to rob this person who happens to be older when you especially from their dignity from a dignity that older age normally provides and There's wisdom to their words that you yourself may not See so the reverences for the idea of wisdom of tradition Exactly exactly and again, so that is something that I really enjoy Especially and something I'm very attached to to this day.

And then from France, what I had to, what I really came to enjoy, of course, is all the fineness that one can find within French culture. The fineness? Yeah, the fineness foods. You mean like intricacies that like the very stuff. Yeah, the soft sophistication in there. I mean, French lingerie, for example, I mean, La Dantelle, you know, the lace is all of that. Super, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's exquisite. So the fashion, the food, fashion, the food. I mean, there's something to be said about all of that. And it's, beautiful. And I love also, even when I talk about fineness, it's like a meal is not about like this big thing, we put in front of you, but you know, smaller portions enjoy what you're eating and spend time at

the table. Like the eating time is not necessarily just this function of feeding yourself, which I understand yet, but for this is something that they share with Senegalese culture, is eating is a moment of communion. It's a moment of friendship, family. It's a precious moment to this day and my husband is American. We eat our meals together all the time. I would not have it any other way. And there is a prep time, all that stuff.

It doesn't matter how busy I am, but we're doing it. Actually, to push back a little bit, it's interesting, because the camaraderie over a meal is a beautiful thing. I got, I mean, I was in a pretty dark place, because on the way to Ukraine, I traveled to Paris, and I stayed in Paris, and I wasn't able to enjoy the fineness because it was almost a distraction from the humanity for some reason to me because there's such a focus on the art of it all that you lose the basic connection to the humanity.

Now, that said, Ben, what you're talking about, I think some of the lack of connection over humanity was the fact that while I did know how to speak French for a long time, I forgot most of the language. And so part of it, there is a barrier, you said the hospitality, there is a bit of a barrier in French culture to where in order to be welcomed in, you have to hear the music and be able to play the music of the people. And if you don't, there's a bit of a barrier. I must admit on that and that it is true. You would feel less that if you were a group of Senegalese people, per se, or I would even say a group of Spanish people. And I think this is maybe the other side of it

for the French people. They can be a little bit, you know, up andy up there. And I think maybe that's what you're sensing there. If you don't have the codes, which is what you call the, if you don't sing the music, then it's hard for you to be part of it.

But I was speaking here from the standpoint of you're in. Yeah. From the inside. Yeah. Yeah. Also, come on. Come on. Coming from Texas and also Ukraine, Ukraine, I should say some of the best steak and meat I've ever had cheap Texas, some of the greatest, the size of the meals in France. It's like, what are we doing here? I mean, I get it's art. I like to look at my art on the wall. No, okay.

And then eat my damn steak as front-end. Did you go, so maybe, okay, no, no, no, no, no. Okay, now here I have to defend them, although sometimes I'm the worst. Yeah. No, did you go to some Michelin star restaurant? Maybe that's why. A little bit.

A little bit. Because next time you go to France friends I'll take you to the countryside or any French home they will serve you multiple times I mean your by the time you're done even if it's you know the portions are smaller if it's smaller if you want to but because that's where you get a chance to really you know feel what to eat in and then have more and then all of that stuff but not be like like this and then you know, feel what to eat in and then have more and then all that stuff. But let me like this. And then, you know, but no, you'll eat plenty. But it's because you went to the Michelin places where I like,

I'm sure the warmth of the people is there. It's almost makes me sad that sometimes I think to properly be in a place is really should spend a long time there. Yeah. And also be emotionally ready. Again, I was emotionally unavailable. I'll just say, well, I would imagine a new way to be Ukraine. I was emotionally unavailable. I'll just say. Well, I would imagine a new way to be Ukraine.

I'm like, who can think about food? But in your identity, a bit of Texas, a bit of San Francisco, and yeah, some of us is school. And I guess from America, the defining, the defining thing for me for America is it's the freedom and the entrepreneurial mindset. See, very quickly, when I moved from France to the United States, and I started becoming successful in the United States, I found myself, me and my husband, he was French and my first husband, who passed away.

We found ourselves at some point, we stopped talking to our friends in France, who stayed in France, because we were talking to them about things that were so outside of their comprehension. What do you mean, you're in your 20s and you just raised, I don't know, a million dollars or two million dollars, especially from back in those days. Today, you know, it's easy here and there. So even in France, that entrepreneur's spirit didn't burn quite as bright. I mean, I mean, don't take me wrong.

Do you have some entrepreneur people in France? Yeah, but to the level that you have it in the US, absolutely not. It's just, I mean, in France, it's still very much, you know, you're born in this area, you go to school in that area, your parents live around, eventually you'll marry and be where your parents are, or maybe go to where viewspouses' parents are, and you buy your house and you buy it once, and you're not going to do like the Americans two years later, I sell my house, I go somewhere else. You don't have any of it. And then what do you mean, you know, like just stopping from nowhere, you're going to do a bit, you're going to do what? Start a business and you have nothing to back you up or whatever.

Oh, and even this idea of, you know, going and fundraising this venture cap, especially back in the days, venture cap. All of that is, it's very American. We take it for granted, but it's very American. Who would have made a bet on me in France? The same person. I would not have found the same people. I would never in France have been able to raise at, you know, at some point, it was $32 million for my first business. Never would have having been able to do that in France. And it doesn't mean that French

people are bad people, anything like that. It's just something that's just not so in the culture, right? Just like this whole concept of philanthropy. It's not that the French people don't do philanthropy, but philanthropy in America is very different from the level and also the magnitude of maybe what different people do. And also they have this always like, oh, let's do it behind the scene. Money is suspicious, success is suspicious. So at some point my husband and I just felt like

a friend's activity where maybe thinking that maybe some drug dealers or something. So we just stopped because it just was not flowing anymore. And so, yes, in America, I found this, this entrepreneurial spirit. But then I was able to link it with something that I'm very familiar with in my country. See, back home in Senegal, I'm part of this, you know, you have what we call the murid. I'm a murid. So what it is is one of the four brotherhoods in Senegal, muridism is the most influential of them and the biggest one. And us, it's all about entrepreneurship as well. I mean, of course, there's a whole religious part. And but our mantra is pray as if you will die tomorrow and work as if you will never die.

And the way we say, the way somebody will say that somebody passed away, we say somebody has retired. Somebody has retired from their work, right? Beautiful. So I think it's funny because in that community, we're very much entrepreneurial, left to our own devices, we're entrepreneurial. But then what happens is the minute people start going to,

they're being educated through the education system, like the French, especially the French system, but tend to breed more like, French bureaucrat mindset, then you can see all the entrepreneurial mindset, kind of starting to dwindle down. So it's kind of very interesting. So in a

way, America helped me reunite with that side of my of my roots where America tells me reinforce that side of my roots and also gives me more tools to practice that side of my roots if that makes any sense. Through all of that, that's what brings out the heart of a cheetah, which I think is a beautiful, beautiful thing that encapsulates that whole trajectory, which I think is the best possible answer anyone could give. It makes me want to really think about who I am, because you really have brought together so many cultures within yourself. Like, just talking to you makes you feel like we are just all one people. Because at the end of we are.

At the end of we are. And you know, when you come from at the end of we are and also I think for me, if people can take anything from my story, it's at the end of the day. I am very care about it. And I'm all for harmony among people and among us peoples. If we can accept that we're all, I know they sound so cliché, but some for me is so true, but we're all humans. You know, when I left Senegal, when I was about to leave Senegal for the first time, and to go to Europe to be reunited with my parents, because now they had emigrated,

and things were going to be fine, and things were stable for them. Now they're like, it's time to be reunited with her. They brought me over, but before I left Senegal, my grandma sat me down. She actually, she lowered herself down to my level and she said, so, Megat, you're about to go to this place where most people will not look like you. And most people speak a language that's going to be different from yours. And you're going to realize that all the kids are going to school and you're never being the school because, you know, I was like I said a free range grade and I was just living

my life. And she said, but I don't want for any of that and she said her words that I don't want for any of that to intimidate you. She said you can be impressed by some of it if you want but no intimidation. And she said because the fact that they might be different from you, yeah they're gonna have a different skin color from you but it is still human skin. You're human, they're human. And she said, with language, you're going to speak. It's a different language from yours. But it is still a language that humans speak.

You're human, they're human. Therefore, you can speak it. And lastly, they have gone to school. Going to school is what little humans do. You're a little human, so you'll be just fine. And I went and grandma was right. Right? It was right. And that helped me.

And I think when you internalize that so early on, it just makes you belong to the human family that you're part of. I am part of a human family. And I would have no problem going to Russia, for example, let's take and be totally open. Maybe don't go right now, but no, not now. Maybe not now. You're right. But at least don't bring weed if you go on the plane.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, yeah, right. That girl, I don't know what she was thinking, but no. So, but what I'm trying to say, Lex, is I feel like I can go anywhere in the world, including some of the most unfriendly places in the world to someone like me, because there are places like that. And yet, I know, I know that somehow, somewhere, someone will take care of me. Someone will help me.

When I first came to this country, I came as a tourist, and you had this amazing family who had a family business in Indiana, Columbus, Indiana, the Wences, Carol and Eldon Wences. I owe them everything that I have in this country, that I am in this country. They are Americans in the mid-America from a place that most other Americans would maybe

look down on because, you know, and some people would be like, oh, you're going to this place where they have more churches and cows than people, you know, that type of behavior, because the coastal elites, but it is in Midwest, in the Midwest, that I found that I, black, young women, coming out of nowhere, found support. They all rallied around me. I didn't even come from the same faith as they are from, yet their whole church rallied around me to find me on a apartment.

My host family found me, got me a job, and it was not a pity job. They were like, we need, we are in serious needs of getting our accounting under control and our marketing and all of that. And I had to catch up years of accounting like 2% and and come up with marketing all of that. And I did it way faster than they thought I would ever be able to do that. At some point, they look at me and they like, look, there is a future for you. And we are too small for that future. And now we could be selfish and keep you here with us.

And we would want nothing more than that, because we are like my parents to this day. I just came back from seeing them. And they said, but there's so much more for you and we don't have it. So we want you to go and find out what it is. And that's eventually when I, you know, because something was brewing up in San Francisco when I say I left my heart in San Francisco because, you know, my, my, my, my man would become my husband. We went to the same business school in France, but then he was older than me.

So he had come to San Francisco and started a business fair and I just looked like there was something there. And Skyholo was like, you gotta go to San Francisco and find out with Emmanuel what's going on. And I went and I left my heart in San Francisco. I came back and I'm like, okay, I'm leaving. Here's the key to my apartment.

What, what am I supposed to do? But I'm out of here. So no, but, Skyholo, so this is it. This is what I'm saying, especially in these times, when this country loves to dwell on, you know, you're bad because you have this kind of color. Here are people with a completely different kind of color in mind, completely different faith in mind,

yet embraced me, protected me, paid for my visa, you know, for my lawyer, for my H1B, everything, and also played emotional support for me, and no one. No one asked them to do that. They didn't have to do it. They didn't. So what I'm saying is, and this has been the story of my life, everywhere I go, regardless

of the hostility around me, you bet you have at this always, always going to be somebody who shows up for you, and somebody who is at the extremes of the antipods of where you are and that tells me something. In the end, we are good people. Most people are good people. And there's so much power to that, the internalizing of this idea, the world, just human. And there's human kindness all around us. I've seen it a lot where people internalize that and they're able to walk lightly amidst hate

and walk past it. And it doesn't stick to them in a way that they build resentment and it paralyzes them. If they internalize the world as human, they can be in the, just like you said, in the worst places in the world for them. And someone somewhere that human magic and touch is there. Yeah, you'll find them. Yeah, yeah. And you know, the other thing too,

like, is especially in these times we're working in, it is to remind yourself, I think this is where we all are called to practice more, more courage. I call it courage. It's the courage to show up with curiosity, with empathy and with love. To me, those three are the the antidote to pretty much anything.

Yeah. Curiosity, in the face of fear, can you show up with curiosity? In the face of hate, can you say, I'm going to engage with love, even if I'm scared to death, and even if I'm pissed off to death, by this. But can you do that? In the face of just like, you know, judgment or whatever, can you show up with empathy? And I had just found that when you try to do that, you engage very different parts of your brain. That's proven by a way, by a brain scientist,

but you also can feel it in your body that but you're engaged in very different parts of your soul. And so I try myself, I'm not always good at it, but it's a practice, but I try to honor which is curiosity, empathy, and love. As I told you offline, those I agree with you 100% on that. But there is, you know, when you go to your crane and you can say, you can speak about the power of love,

but when you lose your family, when you lose your home, all you have in your heart is hate. Even if you know it, you're not supposed to have it. You're still all you have is hate. So sometimes it's a very human thing to have resentment, to have hate. But it is about trying not to stay there. And it's okay if it takes you years. But it is about trying, and I mean the word trying. It is about trying not to stay there.

Let me ask you about some of the things you see in this country from your perspective of everywhere you've been in the world. What do you think about the Black Lives Matter movement here in America that does struggle with the role of skin color today and throughout the history of this country, and maybe even throughout the history of this country, maybe even throughout the history of the world. Well, Black Lives Matter has been a very hard one for me because do Black Lives Matter, those free words together in that order, what they mean, they mean everything

because Black Lives Matter, as any other lives do matter, but I know in this case why they say black lives matter because some of the context we have had. Now while I agree with the principles that black lives matter, I have a big problem with the organization and what it stands for. When I have an organization that pretends to want to stand for black lives to matter, yet you are self-proclaimed Marxist Socialist, I pause. Why? I pause and then I'm like, have we learned nothing? Have we learned nothing? And the reason why I say that, Lex is because 60 some years ago, it started before even 60 some years ago.

Black people in this case, I'm talking about the African people, I'm talking about the African people. I'm talking about the black Africans who would go on to really cement this concept of African emancipation and African liberation. And here I'm taking us back to 1945. It's they had four of them before that. But in 1945, in Manchester, UK, happened something that would become major for Africa. And its future, especially Sub-Saharan Africa,

in Manchester, UK, people like Blaise Dianne of my country near Rere Tanzinea, Kwame and Krumah, Ghana, and others and others from different parts of the continent. Got together with Marcus Garvey and W.E.B Dubois. And I say Dubois because of how we say it in French. Here's a French name. French name at least. And Americans would say, so for Americans listening, I know you say Dubois. Oh boy. No, because just in case, like, we're talking about, that's what I'm talking about. So all of those people got together in the UK. And with W.E.Bubwa and Marcus Garvey, big top African-American intellectuals of their times. WWE, Budubwa had so many things happen to him, you know, starting from the North, being more or less a liberal type guy, you know, came to the South just to see

at this time, you know, people, black people being lynched and some of the body parts being shown in our store windows. I mean, just for a second, we put our self in issues. I put myself in issues. And that's when he started to become radicalized, right? Because at first it was like, oh, we're forums, we said that. And I was like, I've got darn it. And maybe it's people. We don't talk to them. We force, you know. I mean, I was like, got downed to enemy people. We don't talk to them. We force, you know. And eventually, little by little, go thing going through.

Yeah, you have these people. They're very much under Marx's socialist train. So you think that a lot of the sort of, it's a political movement that are just using... Yeah, because what happened back in those days, it is true that two-veh credit, common as socialists, were fighting for equal rights. They were fighting for the rights of black people to have equal rights. So, of course, I could see why one could say, especially in those times. You've been lynched.

Body's burnt. Body parts. Showcase that window stores. Meanwhile, in Africa, under colonization, in your own country, in your own land. And you have this group that's saying, your fight is part of what we fight. Of course, you're going to say a side with you, especially if this is all happening at a time where, you know, so 1945, these guys who would be the liberators of various African nations, for meeting with Garvey, with the B.E.B. Dubois. And that's where this meeting is very important. It's the fifth Pan-African Congress meeting.

It's very important. It can be their last one, but it's the most important one because that's when they formed their plans and really the rally that around this concept of African-Emancipation and Emancipation and African-Libberation. We're gonna liberate our countries.

Then later, so that's how all of these movements started to happen. And from there, Gandhi was already making some progress with India, getting them out of a British rule. And all of that. So all of this was happening in the really late. This whole thing was bubbling, bubbling, bubbling. It says like a new force going on. And then we arrive in the late 50s. new force going on. And then we're arriving in the late 50s and, you know, Krumor with, um, you know, them with a British as well, they might manage to become, to become, um, the, their colonization is, is over. They're the first one to go in 57. Then from there, it's what we call the independences. That's what, when, when African, most African nation are getting their independence, dates mine April 4th 1960

So all over so this is happening. Well now think about it. You're talking 57 you're talking 60 We like it though. We like at this time now with the middle of a cold war See because we have to put things in context if we want to understand what's going on Because people today ask me why do you think come because even now when they understand? Oh, you're right Um, it makes sense if you have no way to make freedom because people today ask me, why do you think, because even now when they understand, oh, you're right, it makes sense. If you have nowhere to make freedom, you're going to be poor. But why? Why did they go for this? Why did they go for this? And then they don't understand.

So that's what happened. So, beginning of the day of times, pre-colonial Africans were free marketeers, free enterprise, it's pretty well recorded by someone like George Ayute, that's where I got the cheat I think from, and Ghanaian economist, and then slavery happened, colonialism happened, and then the independence is late 50s, early 60s for most African countries, most sub-Saharan African countries. So they are what you have is, but then what happened there? So I told you in 45, fifth-pun African Congress in the UK with the liberators of Africa under the under the leadership because he was the wise, you know, eldest man, Du Boa was, he was in his

70s back in the day. So he's older than them, you know, and he's coming with all of these ideas and everything. So we're like, so there we are. Now in the late 50s, early 60s, we're starting to make progress with the independences, you know, India has gone there before. So all of that is starting to happen. And at that time, remember, they already were being introduced to the concept of socialism, Marxism, all of that, way before, by some of these black African-American intellectuals over time who were very socialist smart, just by that time. So now we're becoming independent because I do, I do

independent like this because I reckon that there's still neocolonism going on. So now this is happening, we'll be coming free, but then you look around. What do you see? That now most of these liberators or their nations become the president of the nations. But remember what I told you, most of them have Dranken, the social, socialist Marxist socialism, Kool-Aid. So has these African nations become independent

with their first independent governments and in, you know presidents most of them most of them are socialist various forms of status type of government and this is because at that point we had made a fatal mistake of going off saying we are Marxist socialist because you guys fight for equal rights. So in this case, there should be no colonialism or anything like that. So not only you have that going on, and the people, so right now you had this battle of ideology going on because on one end represented by freedom and the economic, what do you call it? The economic system they were using is capitalism, and these are represented by the Western nations facing off with Eastern bloc,

practicing various forms of stardism, socialism, communism, various forms of stardism, and these two are fighting for influence. So, and we also have, it's also not, so two things there. One is we're at a time where remember, the free market concept was almost dead. Almost dead. So almost every intellectual at that time was social Marxist. Or Marxist Socialist, I put the name, that's what you were.

So you're in a world where it was the normal thing, it was just mainstream acceptance. So not only you have that force, but at the same time, if these two forces are fighting one another, it turns out that the one representing capitalism and freedom, well, sorry, but isn't it you who enslaved us and colonized us? And you're fighting with the people who represent, you know, supposedly people who are saying that who had been fighting

for equal rights for us with us for the longest time, these are our friends. And that's when we made a fatal mistake. Because while yes, there were maybe good things to agree on with Marxist socialists over time, especially equal rights for all people and all of that, that the only thing we should have, among the only things we should have agreed upon. There are violent, revolution tendencies, no way. When it comes to the economic nonsense, no way, we should not have thrown the baby out with the bath water.

But that's what we did. And that's when we made a fatal mistake. So then we became free, all of his nations, and most of them started with socialists or communist leaders, my country, socialist. Leopold Siddharth Sangha, he was a socialist, and they stayed in power for 40 years, the first 40 years of our freedom years.

And all over the continent, more or less that's what you had. And on top of that, something else that the French don't know, the people don't know is France, with its colonies, said, you cannot not do, you have to, you have to keep the French, French civil law. So we're talking about the Napoleonic civil code. Are you kidding me? So that's what happens. So the reason why I go back to BLM is while I have all the respect in the world and all the compassion in the world for people like Krumah, for people like Nyareiway, for people, all of those people of those times, the liberators of Africa,

while I have so much love, compassion for them, I am also able to say, because I got the benefit of 60 some years time, and you know, where you get to do a debrief, and see what worked, what didn't work, what happened. We have had the 60 years to look back and to reflect. So yes, I can understand why they did what they did. I can understand why they cited with these people who on the surface, or at least some part of a fight, was the same fight as them when it came to equal rights. I can excuse them, but I will not excuse the BLM founders, because that mistake was tolerable 60 some years ago. Today, No, but blacks of today cannot be serious about black lives mattering and saying in the same sentence. And we're going to be socialist marks, a socialist.

It just doesn't work. So the BLM movement is too deeply integrated with with the idea of Marxism. We have those ideologies. Yeah. They are anti-fremark market, anti-capitalist. And we do know that you have to have free markets in order to build prosperity. And prosperity means economic power. If you have economic power, no one messes with you.

Or if they're going to do it, they're going to have to think twice. And when they do, they're gonna have to pay consequences. So if you want for blacks to be respected anywhere in the world, you're gonna have to be serious about black prosperity. All mass, not just a few people, or probably here in somebody over there, uh-uh-uh. No, we as a group have to be a critical mass of prosperity, across the board. We as a group have to be a critical mass of prosperity,

a cross-fabored. And because we're talking critical mass of prosperity, a cross-fabored, it means black people everywhere in the world. But guess what? We in Africa happened to represent 90% of the representatives of a black race. So you're gonna be serious about black lives mattering without being serious for Africa,

the one billion people in Africa that are black and for them to have access to the free markets and yes, fossil fuels so that they can rock it up, prosperity wise. And the resources of the young people, the young minds. So that all of these young people, young minds can finally manifest their greatness that I know they have and that they're showing us everyday despite, despite the obstacles. That's what we need. Senegal becomes rich and Senegal can become and will be rich

over in France. The colonized, the Singapore did it, we can do it. Malawi rich. Nigeria rich, functioning as well. Malawi rich. Tanzania rich. Uganda rich. Zimbabwe rich. Niger rich. Everywhere rich.

Prosperous. As prosperous, if not more prosperous, then Switzerland. Or Singapore. Or the US don't know of all of the Eastern times or Luxembourg, places that have no natural resources. We become rich and you watch the world having a very different relationship with us. That's the only time we will command any type of respect.

That's when people, even the, are a common psyche will change even about black people. All of the stereotypes that they have of us is gonna melt away. And you may still not like us. But you will still respect us because we are a force to be dealt with. And only economic power does that. It would be nice, of course, for us to respect people because they're people. It would be nice, but let us not kid ourselves. This is Earth.

And someone said, you know, nice people will make it to heaven, but not to Harvard necessarily. It's true. It's interesting that Pity does not ever turn into respect. It'll be nice if it did. It would be nice, but it doesn't. Prosperity is the only thing. And the way we do that, there is no, just like all of us humans have to inhale oxygen and excel carbon dioxide. That's a human way of breathing. You bring me on on but you want to be foolish and be like oh well sorry that's how white people breathe so as

black people we're gonna have to do something different well good luck with that right. So this is here why I'm saying I have no patience for black Lives Matter. They're making a mistake that was made 60-some plus years ago. Even more than that, maybe even 100, you know, when we were citing with a Marxist Socialist because there are the ones who've been fighting for equal rights. Let me ask you though about racism. Do you, as you travel through this world, as you travel through America, feel the burn of hatred? You've spoken about the revolutions that have been fought throughout

the 20th century against racism. But today, as people talk about educating, reminding the world, even with more philosophical ideas of critical race theory, for example, do you think this is still a battle that needs to be fought at the forefront of culture and in the United States? Does racism exist? Yes it does. But all forms of isms exist. Some people it's about very forms of ebblism. All of ours is about size. And racism is one of them. Does it exist? Yes it does. But is it what's going to stop anyone from manifesting their greatest potential? I say no. I say no. Many people in this country have showed it. Whether they're African Americans or African immigrant, I'm an African immigrant. You have African Americans like Oprah and others and other people even before her,

who despite the nastiness around them, we're able to make it. So we do know, especially as black people, but I think it's humanity as a whole. And that's what I love about the human spirit. It's resiliency. But resiliency only can happen if you don't allow yourself to be beaten down and to lose yourself of agency. It's of course easier say than than done and some among us

need a little bit more help to not succumb for it than others do. And I've seen it, it might be harder for you if you're somewhere in, you know, in a city, you know, in a city, Black America, maybe the environment might be a little bit tougher for you to try and get you together and all that stuff. And it's okay. But even in that situation, we need to, I think it's important that we still do not rob you of your agency. And this is where I am mad as heck against those who supposedly care and their idea of how to make sure that I don't become or stay a victim of racism is through all the things we talked about, the CRT, the anti-racism crap of, you know, Abraham X Candy and what's her name, Robin DeAngelo. I mean, her, I'm shocked.

The woman is making all of this money, supposedly fighting a war on our behalf. I'm like, lady, I hear you loud and clear that you are a true racist. I know, but you told me you are. And for you to think that you're a racist and makes you less racist, and that happens too.

She comes from a racist background, fine, she's saying it, it's true. But this idea that every walking person on earth belongs to one category of the other, depending on what you, you know, which can color you came with, it's problematic at its root. So my point is, does racism exist?

Yes. Do you think it's gonna stop me from doing anything I have to do? No. Might it make it harder, longer, maybe? But it will not stop me. But for it not to stop me, I can't engage in victimhood mentality. I can't lose myself or self-self. I got to use all the agency that I have to fight back and fight beyond. See, it's just a little bit of fight back. You fight back and you fight beyond. Because at some point, yeah, and it's this concept of yes and. So this is why I have loved the job.

So when I have somebody who is like, oh, anti-racism is the way, we're gonna go and tell all the white kids that, you know, because there will happen to be white that they're really the oppressors and blah, blah, blah, and the black kids because they're black, you know, you're not changing anything when you're doing that. Nothing except that you're causing, you're putting problems where there were no problems to start with.

All we had to do was maybe go for a different route from there. Kids are kids, kids are born kids and this I'm not sure if you want to get me going on to the whole science of bias because that's something I spent years of my life on and my journey on the science of bias started with the days of Philando Castile, Eric Garner, that whole summer of 2016, when we had this horrendous, horrendous situation of black people being killed by the police, where they shot before asking,

and the people left to die in the most inhumane way for the rest of us to watch from the social media. That's me. That's when my George Floyd moment happened. Not clear four years ago in the whole world is like, you know, so that sent me on a journey of understanding what discrimination is and bias is, and in a way that's the reason why I started this company that I even called skin-to-skin.

That's where it came from. Again, criticized by creating. I, I, I needed to understand what discrimination was. How does it work? Is it true? What candy is saying? Is it true? What Dianjolo is saying?

Is it true that that I, it could, it could be that your bad, your, your, your race is just because of a skin color, you happen to be born in? Is it true? Is it true? I, I needed to know because I was at a time of my life where at some point, you know, when those killings were happening, it was so hard for me being a black person in this country

and wondering, I mean, what is this? And what do we do with this? Yeah, is it true how much discrimination am I operating under in the system? All of that. You need to understand the full characteristics of, if you're dreaming of making a big change by building companies, you have to kind of. How much, what am I up against? What am I up against, right?

And so this is why, you know, spend all of his time on some of the work. And then eventually, I understood that discrimination, if you wanted to understand it beyond, it's, you know, beyond the big lines of, especially the clickbait lines, would make it very black and white. Then I had to really take a moment,

and I spent time with a world of brain scientists with behavioral psychologists, with evolutionary biologists. We have all of this ecosystem, but together, one might call the science of bias. And especially, I came across the work of this team of scientists at the University of I think it was Kahn's center and they're the only ones who made sense in the sea of nonsense

back then. And this article was in political and it was saying something that I could relate to. And eventually, what I learned was, and this part comes from evolutionary biologists people. They, in a way, tell you that right at one age free, I can happen sooner or later, because you know, we're all different. But you go from this person who has to rely on these other people, usually your parents, to stay alive, to be fed, to be housed, to be even your diaper change, all of that stuff, right? To now, something is sticking in, where you have to, in order for you to survive, and this

is all wired in, so you don't even understand it consciously as I'm saying it now, where in order for to survive for another for you to go from this state of dependency to another to the next tape to the next station more and more and more and more You're gonna have to develop visibility to make sense of the world and what's making sense of a world at this most basic level means is Can you determine if a situation or a person is good or bad for you? Failure and you need to be able to do so ever so quickly. Because failure to be able to do that means that you might not be alive for next second. See, it's so wired in. So this process is starting to kick in. And at that point, your brain is going to be your best ally for that.

What the brain is going to do is it's going to help you. The way the brain works is through, it works with, it's all wired for efficiency. The way it goes for efficiency is through automation. Meaning that every time it has computed, and you probably know these things way better than me, every time it has computed one algorithm, it doesn't want to do it again. It's almost like this, okay, got it, stored, stored, right?

Then it adds maybe some little levels of complexity to it, but it has to be something new, meaning the new level of complexity for it to even be willing to reconsider. Otherwise, you have, so then all of a sudden, what you have is these new wrongs in the back of your head and they have created pathways, right? So, and every time new wrongs have created pathway among themselves because basically they're attached and here is the pathway. Well, this pathway in the world of the world, in the world of science of bias, it's a habit.

In general, it's a habit when they form a pathway. So if we're willing to talk about unconscious bias, because of course, it's very different from somebody who tells me to my face. There's no world in which you or I could ever be equal because you're black and I'm white, you're a woman, I'm a man, this, this and that. That people like that, again, 100% of psychopaths in our world, they're out there. Unfortunately by the time we do nasty things, it's pretty horrible and that's what all we hear about. But I'm talking mostly about the rest of us. Remember when I told you that most of us are good people, bumbling along,

making it up as we're going. That's why I have compassion for human nature. So, but really, in the morning when I wake up, do you really think that I'm waking up and thinking, how am I gonna go kill? How am I gonna go kill Lex? That guy needs to go down. He's man, he's, don't take me wrong.

I'm sure there's some woman who feel like that, but I'm not one of them and I do think a majority of us are not whatever. But you know, in the morning, I'm waking them. I'm just like, gee, can I get my tea? Oh, my dog is not looking okay today. You know, we've got, right? It's a lot going on in Syria using these kind of, just like you said brilliantly, the brain has a much as simplification that's built up and uses those simplifications to get through the day. To get through the day, exactly.

So then here you are needing to make sense of a world. And then the brain is your best ally in that. The way it's gonna do it is for efficiency, efficiency is done through automation. So every time it thinks it's figured something out, it's never gonna think about it again. So that's how you build all of these habits of unconscious bias because everything so it somewhere along the line you come up with

with the information that black men walking around with a hoodie equals danger. So later, what do you see? Whether it's Lexo, my god, I'm walking in the dark alley. I see a black man with a hoodie. Maybe I'm gonna run away because I've been Given that information. So the best way to think about it is the brain is a hardware and And the software it runs on is What do you call it is a cultural imprint? All of this information that we're getting from the Disney movies that you're reading, telling you that themselves are to be saved by the prints and all that stuff. And girls were pink and all whatever.

You watch the movies and all the movies whenever you watch them, it's about Africa. They're talking to you about the blood diamonds or they're talking to you about slavery or they're talking to you about this. And then, of one, you walk away thinking that all the hills of Africa are caused because of resource extraction of the diamonds

or they're always fighting each other, look at the amine and the movie you know or you know slavery all the time you walk away and this is it and we all programmed the long same line see that's the beauty of it all of us are because even some black people who are going to claim but they didn't visit up when they registered really so the truth so then when I learned a little bit someone someone like, wow, this comes up to, if you've got the brain, you've got biases, it comes with a territory, that makes sense. Now, it doesn't mean we can't transcend

that function of a brain and that we should transcend it. Right? But I think it's very important, because once you understand that, a little bit more peace is created among us because this is not about a black and white or a yellow and green issue. It's about we are human issue and These are part of things we developed to you know to to to to keep to stay around Just like we no longer have to rely on

You know these fear of flight You know like ability of a brain because because bears are over there, start running and running fast, right? Today, we're over bears. Show me where they are. But we have kept this tendency to go for fear of flight. I don't know how they said. And so we have this, you know, courtesan done by the stress, you know, stress triggers that

back in the days, we have a stress trigger. We run. And it's all, you know, court is done by the stress, you know, stress triggers that back in the days we have a stress trigger, we run and it's all, you know, expelled out. But today we get triggers and we don't know what to do with it because where do we run to? What do we do? The bear is not even here. So same thing here with that. And so when you realize there's this whole thing that is now we, what you understand is that this problem is not about antiracism BS but it is about can each one of us do the work where their work is

needed which is we look inside. Can we go for this work of deep programming? This concept of a mindful practice of undoing the habit of bias. And that doesn't necessarily have to do with the simple categorization of black and practice of undoing the habit of bias. And that doesn't necessarily have to do with a simple categorization of black and white. It's all kinds of biases. It's about everything. It's about everything.

And you know, when I started on that journey and me and my friend back then built, you know, this practice of undoing your habit of unconscious bias, we had all types of people come and say, wow, I discovered with my bias against larger people. And I'm like, what do you mean? Well, I think I, it seems to me like I felt that larger people maybe are dumb. No, we heard things. And you know, and you don't judge. Yeah. You don't judge. And so and you see it's at every level, you know, like, I don't know, like there's even this one friend. She was like, you know,

when I looked into the whole dating thing, I absolutely don't want to have, you know, date for Asian men because she went, her mind was into some stereotypes about the size of whatever. And she was like, no, but you see, once you start, because this whole thing is the five-step thing, bias awareness, this, basically, at this level, what you're doing is you're learning to spot the biases in our culture, because that's where the cultural imprint comes from. You watch in this movie and you realize, like I said, well, gee, I realize once again, the black person is portrayed like the fag of a movie. Or, you know, the Latina lady, this is how she's been portrayed.

And you see it everywhere, even the NPR. NPR is happening, like you're listening to something, like NPR. It can't be more liberal than that. And this gentleman is asking these two candidates. One of them is a woman, political candidates, if everyone is a man. I'm hearing him asking the lady a question

that I know he's not gonna ask the man, and he didn't ask her. He said, how do you balance your race with a family? Does a man not have a family? Right there, you see, it's very subtle, but you see? But because now my mind is kind of trained to see things, I'm like interesting, or like when the media just says, pros climate change issue on something, without even the choice of words.

So it's pretty much everywhere. You open the book everywhere. The interesting thing though, even that man, woman example, is I think it's really powerful to bring that bias to the surface, but not let that lead to kind of fear and paralysis. You should almost, I mean, that's where humor is. Make fun of it. Bring it to the surface. Acknowledge the fact that those things are part of the conversation. And a lot of them are, it is, you know, it's a cultural imprint because it's part of culture. And that might be there could be,

you know, I grew up in the Soviet Union where the gender roles were stronger than in other places. That's right. And that's part of the culture. We have to acknowledge that this is how, this is affecting how I think. You might, exactly, we might like how that works when we might not, but we have to acknowledge it and not get, you know, make it part of humor, make fun of yourself, you know, all that kind of stuff. That's the thing. And so, let's watch why this first step is bias, bias awareness.

So you get, you train yourself, oh yeah, okay, that was one or it's, you know, and it's about, it's in you. We're talking about you, we're not. And then from there, you're like, replace the bias, like bias replacement. Then it is where you practice the empathy, you're like, gee, wow, I wonder how I would feel. Every day I walk into a store. And the guy thinks he should be following me

because maybe I might steal something because I'm black. Because once you try that, to put yourself in there with a person's shoes, all of a sudden something else starts to click. And then from there, you go on to making connection. Then you're making a connection, and then things start to change. Because now you, no, you're making then you make cultural immersion. So this is where we had some people like this one woman. She was very So this is where we had some people like this one woman. She was very, quite very feminist-oriented and she had an issue with women wearing their hijab. And because for her it was like, how come you? How come? How come you just slow it? You know, like how come? You're accepting this demeaning of

yourself, not understanding everything else that comes with it. But through as she understood that she even had that bias, then she went on through all the different processes, and then eventually when comes the next step, cultural immersion, she started going to the most doing Ramadan, when Muslims are doing, you know, it's the holy month of fasting and then we break at night. And she started understanding very different things. And eventually happens the last step that happens naturally, making it through real genuine connection. And this is where friendships happen. This is where that's it.

Dubai's can go home now because it has been challenged with reality. And understanding. And so for me, that is what I was after. And then, but then the world was just like, we don't want to be told we're part of a problem. So, but I still reckon that it is the type of mindfulness type of practice that's going to need to happen. And it's one that's very internal to you. It is, it is not. And it happens. Everybody at their own pace. So all of this I take it back to racism, the question you were asking me. Does racism exist? Yes, it does. Is it going to stop me from doing

anything I want to do? No. Is it going to make it harder? No, but this is where for anybody who is serious about making sure about fighting racism. I think the only job you have to do is to make sure that people keep their sense of self-agency. provide people with the tools to stand up. So this is why I have so much respect for Van Jones. People like Van Jones, although I disagree with him on so many things, but people like Miss Alice Johnson, she was pardoned by President Trump through the work of people like Van Jones and Kim Kardashian and others. They all joined forces. This is a case where people of, and those folks then went on to combine forces furthermore, no regard given to their political belongings, they said, if the issue is criminal justice reform, then anybody who stands for it has to come together. And so what they did in this situation with what they're doing criminal justice reform in my mind is a valid action to fight

racism in my mind because what are you doing there? You're trying to get people out of jail who really have no business being there. And also when you have people like Bishop Omar and the people he passed away unfortunately, but today we have Anton Lackie, who was in jail for having killed his cousin. You know, he had started, I think he started the gang in South Dallas. So we're talking really tough guy who was within the wrong side of the equation. And in jail, literally, he found Plato, the cave and all that. So today, these people, I'm like,

why don't we hear more about them, the urban specialist? Because these people, it's not about the antiracism crap of Kendi Odin and Genoa, I'll say it again, until the cows come home, but it is about we go where help is needed. We go in urban, you know, inner city, inner city, black inner city neighborhoods, and blocked by block, we change the culture.

And they say it like that, it's their words. These are African-American people who have, as many writers, anybody else to talk about their own culture and they will tell you people who have, as many rights as anybody else, to talk about their own culture. And they will tell you, we have to change the culture. I have some videos like that on my YouTube with Bishop Omar. What these people are doing is what we need to do. Bishop will explain and say, sometimes people are,

they're fit and deep down in the mud. And what we have to do is to try to pull them up. And you cannot say you didn't pull them up because we're not seeing their head out yet. But how much how much progress have they made from the bottom to where they are now and keep going. So what I see these people doing, you see, I have so much, I love and respect Glenlary and company, you know, and Ian Rove and all of those guys. I love them. I love a lot of the things that they say. You know, this whole concept of personal response, we don't know that.

But I'm just like, at some point, it also needs to be matched up with real actions. And that's what the people like Anton Lucky, urban specialist, Alice Johnson are doing. They're going where it's hard. Alice Johnson is getting people out of jail every single day, literally. And then people like Anton Lucky and his team are giving them the tools to leave the gang life, to be better people, to go for life of redemption. This is happening right now. But what I find is they're not getting the bulk of the attention. But this is anybody who's serious about this is why how I would love to see people do enter your racism is help lift people up for real. Action.

Support, support school choice. Support school choice. Black mamas are they know what's going on and when they tell you we want school choice They know what to talk about. They're not ill yet. Yeah, especially at the local level. Yes, helping out the local level. Yes So help them make sure that they can take their kids out of these public schools that are doing horrendous things to them You know miss Virginia watch that movie. How could you not support black moms in this country to take the kids to safety when it comes to education? How come not?

That's what I want to see happen. And not like some, near, let's go to some glass rooms and everybody's white, you go over here, everybody's a next-taint, you go over here, and kids, let us tell you about this. No, no, no, no. As a black person, I don't want you to do any of that crap.

Let me grow my wings. If you want, help put some fuel behind them, and let me take my flight. That's all I'm asking for. That's the only way for you to do a four, that's the only way for you to be part of a racism battle, if that's what you think is the most important battle of our life. That's it.

That's what I have to say about that. And so for me, I'm keeping my head very straight. It's about what enables black people to thrive. I don't need for you to be an activist on my behalf. No, because when you're doing what you're doing exactly, what you've been doing to us, black people in Africa, our whole life, I don't need you white savior complex,

because what antiracism is, white savior complex, that stuff doesn't work. It only works to make you feel better about how superior you are to me. But it does nothing, absolutely nothing, to change my everyday life. If it is not, if it is, at least in the African side, to actually even change my, you know, turn me into somebody who's waiting for handouts.

So I would encourage people to really, those people who are really serious about wanting to be part of a solution. And I know there are many out there for the love of God and everything that's out there and we care about stop It's it's about think about what's gonna Unable people maybe the word is wrongly chosen but know what I'm talking about They give them give people yeah to spread their wings yes give a person Yeah, learn to teach a person how to fish and don't give them a fish. When you're putting your stupid signs on a lawn with Black Lives Matter and all that crap,

you're not helping. And when you're buying one more anti-racism book or as a company, you know, financing one more DEI, you know, if it's done along those lines, I think we've got a problem. So you do think that the efforts of diversity, equity and inclusion are often not effective. Not only are we not effective, but they're also backfire and there are reports on all of us. And at the end of the day, it makes sense. It makes sense. So for me, I am very, very glad that people have developed an enlightenment about this. Very happy about that, very. But let us not keep going for the easy perceived solution to problems. Again, they've done this to us, the poor people of Africa.

They thought the solution was to give. It does not work. And then they say, oh, we're going to do a social entrepreneurship on you, Tom Shoes. Buy one pair of shoes, and we give one pair of shoes to some people in poor countries. Then guess what happened to us? You know, in the town where we operate in Senegal,

where I have my little manufacturing, we have 2,000 little mom and pop businesses. And guess what, they happen to be in Lex? Shoemakers, right? So, every shoemakers, each one of them hires at least five, 15 people. Do the math, family businesses. Guess what happens to them? The day the Tom Shoes truck shows up with bunch of free shoes. Who can compete against free?

Now all of these people, little by little, are going to have to close their shops because who can compete against free? Because Tom chose dumping all of his shoes on them. And then they go out of business. And now, instead of helping anybody, you have to be sent all the kids who depended on these adults working in these places. Now they have to join the rank of kids who need to be given shoes because you took their parents' ability

to make money through their wages by the shows. You see, so first they said we just have to give. So that was primarily the charity business. And you still have foreign aid business going on. So we just need to give. And then the social entrepreneurs came in place. But I'm like the only person for this business is good, is for Blake McCarty, the founder of Tom Shoes,

but other than that, I'm not sure really seeing who else is winning from this. And then, and so today, my whole thing is, we got a challenge to have a mind for a poor, or to have a mind for the lesser fortunate, maybe in this country, it is easy. And lesser fortunate, let me go, you know, for anybody that you see, you feel like it's being trampled upon because of something. Maybe it's because of economic circumstances or maybe it's race

in this case, or whatever. To have a heart for the lesser fortunate among us, for whatever reason, to have a heart for the lesser fortunate among us for whatever reason. That's that's easy, but to have a mind for them, that's the challenge. Let me ask you a difficult question. Yeah. As if we were not already asking difficult questions. The president of Senegal, Maggie, so is also now the chair of the African Union. He met with the president of Vladimir Putin on June 3.

I think primarily was to discuss food security. Security. Africa seems to be split halfway on their perspective and the war in Ukraine. So broadly speaking, what do you think about this, first of all, the geopolitics of Africa and the geopolitical relationship of Africa with the rest of the world and its current conflict with the war in Ukraine?

What are your thoughts there? Well, you've seen that many countries when it was time to vote, some of them abstained, you know, which in a way, say something. I think for the Africans today, especially as represented by the African Union, because not all countries fallen along the same lines. I feel like again, we're back to, we're back. For the longest time, the West tries to tell us what to do. They decide for us.

And here, they are, there's trouble, meaning there's definitely a rift, major one, between most of the Western world, as represented by, you know, Europe and America primarily, and you have Australia and all that. And then, then they're saying, I think this is more or less an attempt to stand on their own as well. It's like, you don't tell us what to do, as usual.

You always verb us in with, when it makes sense for you to try to verb us in, and then we're left hanging on our own. So there's this perspective of sentiment you were talking about earlier. It's been challenging for me to watch this, because remember, I have one foot also, because there's what I get to see and hear from being in the Western world, but there's also what I get to see and hear from when I'm in the back

home. So I wear all hats. And I think this is a situation where the African Union and African nations in general are saying, we don't, this is the case where almost like, you guys are fighting, you guys are fighting. Maybe for once, we have to watch out for ourselves. There is a sense in which this is the embodiment, sort of abstaining from a vote on the war in Ukraine is a political embodiment of a resistance to the influence of the West. Right.

It's not about the war between whatever you guys are fighting. Yes. It's saying, we're not going to let this particular empire that seems to be at the top right now, which is the United States empire in Europe, to dominate our political discourse, our geopolitical considerations. It's almost like, no, we're not touching this. Yeah, especially that given usually. So when they need us, again, for influence, which means more power, you guys vote the

same way we do. And when it's all over and they go back to spreading, you know, they go back to how do you say that? They go back to exchanging and sharing between themselves, the goodies of, you know, their Halloween collection. We're no longer, we're not there when the goodies are being shared. So I think it's definitely one of the situations.

But for me, it still is hard because I watch everything that's going on. And I'm, it's gonna be complicated for ramifications of all of us. I would like to see our African leaders also what they're doing is clear. But this is a place where I almost I'm also Stem to to say yes and yes to the reasons you're advancing right now, you know, off we don't want to be always Siding because we're tired. We're tired of always being dragged around and taken for granted.

And you vote away. You know, come on, guys, when you need us, we're great. And everything is good. And then when it's time to go and share the goodies, we don't exist anymore. And you actually go for policies that go against us. But in this situation, though, I would like to still see us do the right thing.

In my case, I was not very happy to see us going and more or less begging for, you know, what do you call it, cereals. You know, oh, please let the cereals make it. So at least we get them and we don't starve. I can understand why a president would say something like that or try to negotiate something like that. But when it comes to an African president having to do that with a non-African president, I'm sorry but for me it's too close to begging. Or listen, it's hard to be a leader. It's such a difficult dance because in some sense, sort of the flip side of that is you're creating a market, a geopolitical market of saying,

we're willing to sit down at the table with America, with European leaders, with Russian leaders, with China. And we're going to let you guys convince us who we should collaborate with. And that's what sort of great nations and groups of nations do. Now, there's a cynical, of course, a dark perspective of that because what's in that game played by leaders, the people that hurt, people of Ukraine hurt, people of Africa can hurt. People of Russia. People of Russia can hurt, people of China, people in the United States, but it is the way

of the world. And to earn respect, and sometimes earning respect respect and sometimes earning respect leads to the suffering of many. Well, but except in this case, he has to allow that end. The reason why I'm actually upset with going and being like, oh, can you let at least the boats that are supposed to come to Africa, full of cereals come over, the wheat and all that. It's just like, look, Africa has the highest land that you can do agriculture on.

We have a larger surface, such surface in the world. Why is this not a time for us to try to win ourselves off of cereals that we don't necessarily have on the ground? But no, let us go and plead. Don't beg create instead. Create instead. Exactly. This should have been, you know, just like how the rest of the world, when COVID happened and China had to close off for different reasons and since then has not, you know, completely reopened and people started to realize, wow, we've got, we've got too much, we're too dependent on China for a lot of what we need.

So we're going to have to bring back some production to the US, the Europeans are doing the same. All of that, this should have been an up a time for African leaders to be like, we need to be serious now about food security. And maybe the stuff that maybe don't grow under our climate necessarily, can we work on coming up with different things? Now, I understand it can take time. But if I knew that was happening at the same time that we're saying, well, let the zeros come in, maybe I would be a little bit easier with it. But right now, I'm just like, is it going to be the same

business as usual? And in this case, I'm just like, are we going to go, are we going to keep going from one masa to another masa? I mean, really? The interesting aspect of all this is if we look at all of human history, it's possible that the 21st century is defined by Africa. It will be. And the young people, the huge number of young people, it's like that trajectory could be there's so much possibility to define the future human civilization in Africa. And I don't mean sort of in the next 10 years, I mean in the next 50 years. What so some people concerned about overpopulation, some people concerned about us dying out as a human species. Both of those people live in Austin. I know, I know. I know, I know who they are.

But what's your, in Africa, is as at the center of this, because there is a vibrant, huge number, probably over a billion people. We're 1.3 billion people in all those 1 billion blacks. I mean, that, what, where do you land on that? There is a reason, like, why I say I'm haunted, but I'm obsessed, that I'm monoma naïa coal when it comes to the free markets, and that I have such a strong

sense of urgency to the point markets and that I have such a strong sense of urgency to the point that literally it is affecting me. And it has to do with the fact that yes, you have a youngest region on the earth in terms of the age of its population and the growth on the rate at which it's growing demographic wise. I am not willing to stay there and say it's a curse for humanity, but it will be a curse for humanity. If we don't make sure that these people are youth, gets to partake. And what it takes to partake is not much. So if a rest of the world thinks that get to partake means you have to send more foreign aid, you have to have more charity businesses, charity organizations sending stuff away.

Of course, you're almost thinking parasites. I'm sorry to say this way. If this is what you're thinking, you're seeing us as no more than parasites. I'm sorry to say this way. If this is what you're thinking, you're seeing us as no more than parasites. And if that's what is going to be, I could see why some people might go there. Now, people are here. What are we going to do? Disposive them? That's not an option.

So the only option we have left is to make sure that people partake. And what partaking means is that people get included in them and are part of the systems that allow for human flourishing. And it doesn't, it's not much. In this case, it's about, can we be serious about the reforms? So we have free market zones, areas where people where the flourishing can start, can start to take place. The wealth that people will need to flourish, they don't need you to give it to them.

But it's all about can I let you fly and you will make it happen for you and also for me. Every young African I see today, I realize how stupid the rest of the world is if they're not supporting what I'm trying to talk about Because even if you don't want to do it because that's a right thing to do, which I think it is the right thing to do You're self-in-it. Maybe engage yourself ischness because this person right there. Remember I told you Seven billion geniuses everybody is came to this world with a piece of solution to the human

problem this person and that person and that person Everybody came to this world with a piece of solution to the human problem. This person and that person and that person hold something for me because I'm part of humanity. This person might have a cure to a cancer that might take my wife out. The wife I haven't met yet, but this kid right here has it inside. this kid right here has it inside. And if I help this, if I make sure that this kid gets a chance to flourish and to manifest his genius or her genius, that trickle down many years later comes straight back to serve me and the love of my life. If we can't see it any other way, maybe let's try to think about it that way because it becomes a very good proposition at that point. So in this case, by 2050, Legos, Nigeria will be the largest city in the world.

The future is African wherever we want it or not. But is it going to be an African future where you have a youth being a ticking bomb? Because they have not, you know, there's no hope. They stay in poverty because they belong to nations that don't even understand. Sometimes the importance of common law versus civil law because they're trapped in countries that don't understand that, you know, you need to make the legal framework to provide for better economic freedom. So you can unleash the genuineness, the awesomeness, the ingenuity, the industrious side of your young people, especially of your women, so that they build all the wealth that your nation is going to need you to build.

And with it, the respect that comes from that, see, we have a choice to make. And this is why I feel so, so, so restless about this at this point of my life. We just lost George Hayote. George Hayote is one of a few Africans that I knew who put this out. That's why I learned from his gone. And I feel a strong sense of urgency to not only bring back to the table that which he has been working on, but to also make sure that it gets seen. That's why being here talking with you today, you have no idea. If someone like you could say, what can I do?

You did more than you could ever imagine. By just allowing me to take this message to one more person. And because if we do this, the change is going to happen somewhere down the line. The ripple effects of all of that, unlike in the human potential of all those people and Africa building cool stuff amazing things. Yes, yes, yes. So some are going to be built stuff. All of us are going to work on the reforms.

So we're working on reforms by the way. I'm I'm ahead of the Africa Center for Prosperity of the Atlas Network for largest organization in the world working on taking down barriers of entry for entrepreneurs around the world in their respective countries. So we're doing great work there. I basically, you know, all the, obviously all the fintanks we have in Africa right now, free market fintanks, and we want to promote more of them to come up. And these are local solutions by local people for their local problems, always.

That's where we draw the line. And so, um, they are, so we're working on reforms primarily and making people understand the free markets and the importance of it. Um, but it is piecemeal legislation. It takes time. It is hard. By the time you accomplish something here, more crap has happened over here. More laws have been pounded up because you know how they fix a bad law. Most of the time, where are we going to do it somewhere else? Put other laws to kind of undo the law from before, but it keeps stacking up. But before you know it, where you should have one thing and it's clear, you have a hundred and they go against each other and then it's all it's worse. So we have

piecemealization that happening. You know, our teams are doing really amazing, fantastic work, especially the team in Imanin Ghana. We have a group in Burundi, the Great Ender Great Lakes. I mean, people are doing amazing work, amazing work. But we need to run faster. So while we help them run faster, we also have to unlock other things. And right now, I'm working on one of my most craziest projects,

something bold, radical, crazy for some people. But I know we're not crazy, because before a Singapore has done it, you know, Hong Kong has done it. Later, the most recent China with the SZs, the smell, the special economic zones, some of the most radical free market zones in the world. They've done it. And oftentimes within generation, meaningful change started to happen, right? So here, what I'm working on is thiser, others call it free cities and I like to call it startup cities.

What these are is for us to think about, okay, if piecemeal legislation takes forever while we have this demographic that's growing faster and faster in Africa, there is a discrepancy here between the process of the progress we're making to set the right environment for business to prop up, and how many more people are coming to life, literally every day, on the continent. There's a discrepancy here.

And so the ticking bomb is going faster than the process we can make. This is a problem. So what some of us are working on is this concept of startup cities and to say, piece me a legislation takes too long. How about we continue doing that work, which is essential and critical, but at the same time, can we think of zones, and I'd like to call them also common law zones, where we basically try to have within the country an area where for business I'm not talking about family law or any of that stuff. No one is touching you culture or anything like that

But we're just saying business-wise An enclave where you have the best practices from around the world including yours in terms of what constitutes a great business environment and allow people in that it's, you know, you get in freely or nobody's fortunate to go nobody's forcing you to whatever. So in this. So basically, you're to think about this, rather an occupied plot of land within a country, think Dubai. On 110 acres of land, Dubai is thinking that in their case, they're like, maybe they decided maybe to realize that the best for business in their case, and they said, they looked around and were like, wow, but common law, especially British common laws, seems like a very good one. So at that point, they decided for business only, not family or anything like that, which is going to stand a, you know, sharia or whatever. And so they said, we are going to bring in, you know, so they hired a retired British

common law judges to educate the law and trained the people under there. And I'm oversimplifying, but at the end of the day, in a within a generation, Dubai became one of the top international financial centers of the world. It is what it is today. So in the case of the African nations, that zone can then spread. Yes, it can not only spread, but maybe let's say Senegal. Senegal was to go for this. Here you have this one.

And then, over there, you have this one and then, other way you have another zone. And then what they start to do is they're not all modeled the same way. Because maybe this one is saying, hey, we want to attract more, I don't know, maybe we want to attract more medical research, right? This one is going to be saying, maybe we want to attract more crypto or maybe it's going to be more like,

we want to be more about religious viso or whatever. You know what I mean us, we wanna be more about religious this or whatever. You know what I mean? So we want it to fit more of this or that. And just kind of give the basics, the grounds, and then watch the magic happen on it, right? And so this is what we're working on. And the hope there, because some people are like, I know some people are like, you guys are crazy,

but hey, I'm like, no, it's more or less the story of, you know, the Asian Tigers. And most recently, most of China's progress, economically speaking, because some people might say, well, you don't want to try to wear for developing. You see, even then I say, and it's okay, you can always do better, but we cannot deny the magic that they have accomplished. When they have accomplished, there's nothing short but a miracle. 800 million people getting out of poverty

in such a short amount of time. So it's not, for the quality of life, the majority of the child population. Yes, does something like that happen without problems? Of course not. And so the next person to do something just actually gets to learn from lessons, from lessons. That's all. And leap frog.

And leap frog. Exactly. So for me, this is a promise. And people are like, oh, but you guys are crazy. But I'm like, just like with everything, do you know how many attempts it took before the first flight, when I have a ride brothers took off? Do you know how many? And that's important. You try, you crash, you try, you crash, but each time you're going higher, up higher. And you want to get up for once, then you stay up longer. And before you know it, you're doing all sorts of things.

So here's the same thing. I tell people, listen, all I need is one success story. And then the seed change. People don't even wait for us. Everybody, but this is hard because it's the first time. So what the good news is, there are many groups working on the continent. There are some groups in Zambia, there's a zone there. Folks are doing something like this in Nigeria.

We're part of a project there in Nigeria. The one that I'm most excited about, I cannot disclose the name of the country yet, but my God, I'm so excited by it. And I just know, I just know Lex, it's going to happen in our lifetime. I hope so. It's a really powerful vision. It's not being dramatic to say that the future of humanity depends on that your success, that success in Africa. It's such an important continent. It is. It's the century. It's the continent where everything started. I think

it's the continent where that continent has to finally, finally, finally, finally thrive. We cannot all of us call ourselves an enlightened society as a whole. When you have such, when you have this, it's humongous continent. Have you seen the size of it? You know, yeah, it's, it's hard to fathom actually. Yeah. Forget. Exactly. and it has such ingenious people You know sometimes I look at my people I

Have to tell you I'm so proud of them and the young people especially and you know You would look at them and you know somebody said sometimes one day and it was so true. They said You know, we've seen poverty other places. But here it is just maybe somebody doesn't have money, but they have dignity and it's true. Yeah. So everything else we can handle and we will handle.

You have to mark my word for this. This is going to happen. And our youth is amazing. You should see them. So full of creativity. And it doesn't matter. You know, you were telling me what makes you different. Many things makes us all different. You know, the rondons are very different from the West Africans that we are. Rondons, for example, never dense with their hips, they're dense more like, you know, with this part of a body. What's African's hips? Us, it's hips all over place all the time. And it like, you know, with this part of a body. What's African's hips?

Us, it's hips all over place all the time and it's, you know, more jumping stuff like that. In Ronda, you feel it's more like, you know, I mean, they remind me more of ballet, you know, the ballet thing. Rondons have a sense where, you know, they don't eat in, you know, most so much in public, it's not very well.

It's happening here. You do, us, we, the West Africans, we like to be loud. We're almost like the Italians of the continent. And then the world is so more like, you know, the Swiss suffer. I do have a country that even looks like Switzerland. I mean, we're so different from one group to another. Then you go to the Congo and you see these guys. They're so crazy. We have addressed, I mean, Lissapur.

So we are a very different bunch. But, you know, what I love about us, what I love about my people. We are, we are, we are, we are the manifestation of what resiliency means. And so everything we need is there. Everything we need is there. I will say that there is nothing wrong with the seed. Everything that's wrong with us is that part that we put around us. So we're tired of being bonsai people. We need to be the tallest trees in the forest that we were designed to be. And so...

And that can be fixed. And that can be fixed. And that's the beauty of it. And that's why I am so... I'm almost dizzy with... I get dizzy with... with hope. I know my history, I know my economics, my fellow humans, and all of that. And we know that there's an unfailing recipe. And when it comes to that recipe, we have the hardest part of it. The one missing ingredient, which is our free markets, as we go around and talk, and people start to understand, and each country tries to figure out, okay, where do we go there from here? I know that I will die with my continent having taken the right shift, very turn. I don't have to see where it ends because I cannot

in my wildest dream imagine where it's going to end, but I know it's going to be, yeah, so all my only job is to get this message out and then let my people do with it what they want to do. That's a scale of impact. It's just boundless. It's kind of cool. I mean, sometimes we think about individual problems and how do we solve them? We look up at certain individuals, like the, I don't know, Steve Jobs is a new law mosque, but it's so much more powerful to just without knowing what they will do, give the freedom to millions, to hundreds of

millions of people to do whatever the hell they're going to do. Can you imagine? Can you just imagine? It's truly, truly exciting. So in that sense, the work you're doing, it's unimaginable the kind of impact it would have. Now, going back to that hard moment, this dark place you went in your mind,

in your personal life story, you lost your husband, what gave you strength during that time? What were the places you went to your mind in terms of personal struggle in terms of maybe even depression or or these kinds of struggles? I think for me when my person passed away I Went to

Maybe my friend could see what was going on. Maybe they couldn't. I don't know. But on the surface, I looked like I was fine. But what happened is the only thing I think that kept me around, as I thought about it, was the job to be done. These women relied on me and I was no longer free. I did not own myself and they said it in those words. You don't own yourself anymore. And it was true. But it helped me because I was able to, you know, sometimes whatever it takes to keep you around, whatever it takes.

And that's what I would tell people who feel like they can't just push one more push. And they think they need to end it. At that point, whatever it takes, just stick around for one more second because the next second, you know, so I stuck around because of duty. I felt a very strong sense of duty. My duty was in this case, I think, stronger than my pain. I don't know if it's possible. I don't know how that was possible, but it was. And I just pushed my grief under a rug for years. For years, I worked like a mad lady.

I would travel. I would do three states in three days, landing at twin-de-morning, around five or six going to ride along with our distributors because it was beverage and just keep going. I'd have all of this energy and look like everything is fine, but what happened was just like I was focused on the job to be done and sometimes it is okay to do that. At least for me, it was my safety, my, you know, like when you're in the water and you're about to sink and they throw you that, that round thing, to sink and they throw you that That round thing. I don't know who you call it

You know that Keeps you a float. Yes, yes Yeah, whatever. Yeah, what ever that's between the two of us. We're still terrible I know exactly what you mean exactly right, so you understand me So they said you that thing and I was just hanging onto it. My life depended on this thing. So these women, they carried me. They carried me.

And with time, things are moving forward. And at some point, I went into a really, really deep depression. And I went into a very dark place, even darker than the one I think I've came from. Because by that time, I had worked for years on this company and now some other things was happening. And around that time, it's also when I was discovering a lot of what we talked about today about what makes the country rich. And for me to understand that my network,

I was very much into left oriented network. And to just start to see all of this, I tried to address it to realize that many of these people would prefer go running for the hills, then accept for a moment that maybe capitalism might be part of a solution when many of them were involved in capitalism. So that was a hard time. At some point I was, yeah, so many things were happening around that time Yeah, so many things were happening around that time that basically shook up

Everything for me One is hard to talk about because it's very personal and the person that I that was but I was having a problem with Passed away last year and I'm one to always say leave a dead alone So because of that I won't speak about it dead alone. So because of that, I won't speak about it. But where to having a major fallout with somebody who was like a fabulous figure for me, somebody that I completely trusted. And so at some point you just tell, ask yourself, was my whole life built on a lie? Right? And then you're confused, and then you become confused. And then at some point you lose 90% of your friends because of ideologically speaking,

it doesn't work anymore. Then you just wonder, have I been asleep this whole time? And then you start to wonder, remember when he asked me who am I? At some point, Lex, I literally was like a candle in the wind. I felt like I was a candle in the wind.

And it was very hard to come back from that. And people have a hard, the few people I talk to about this, they have a hardest time understanding or even believing it because they're like, you, I'm like, yes, me. I used to be a candle in the wind. What got you out?

What made you overcome that? My current husband. My current husband. Love. Love. See? When I tell you love is the answer. But him, he came with love, but he also came with really helping me figure out the world.

So what Michael, because that's him, who we're talking about, Michael's strong. Um, can must be special. He's so special. He's so special. He's so special. So you have no idea how special it is. But you know, Michael, the reason why I have such love, respect and admiration for my husband, I'll never say enough is because actually

it's one of those relationships that got built based on intellect first. You see at some point I wasn't a position where I could start a foundation after having built my first business. And all I wanted was an ability to power as many, especially women, African women entrepreneurs like me a few years ago before then, to do something like I was able to do. Bring back to the world some really cool aspects of our culture built into a really cool brand, 21st century type. That's what I wanted to do because a more I could promote women like that

and put steam behind them and the more my dream envisioned for a respected Africa, prosperous Africa would happen, a back van that's what I wanted. And around me, this was also part of a whole crisis of ideologies I had back then. Maybe it was like, well, we should be just doing grants. And I knew that I, my people didn't need grants. They didn't need like a hand out. They don't want your charity. I didn't want charity.

I wanted someone who could work with me on my accounting. I wanted somebody who could help me brainstorm marketing-wise. I wanted somebody or I needed to raise money to pay my research and develop a guy to help me take the juices from my grandma's recipe to something that can be shell-stable. If you're going to need it coaching, these are all the things that I needed to make my dream happen. I didn't want to give me some crap for free, but that's not what I want. I just want to be able to build my business with all the things that business building needs. And so that's what I wanted to do and that's what it was needed.

And so, Michael, somebody found out about what I was doing because back in the days of North Coast, they would write a lot about me and everything. And so, Michael along with John McEve, a founder of Whole Foods Market, they had a nonprofit called Flow. And it's all about human flourishing. They want for people everybody to get this choice, this ability to be able to get to a point

in their life where they're in complete flow. It's Mikael, just Mikhail. Michael is the only one who can save that last name. But the whole concept of flow, when you're in a state of flow, you're basically doing what you're supposed to do, the way you're supposed to do it with the people who are supposed this whole concept of flow. It it's really, really, really, I'm decides. So, you know, so I meet with this man. You're next. You're so, okay. So we, we, he finds me, he's people find me. And then there was a program where it was all about

accelerating, accelerating women and deprinaries. So it's during this times that I'm starting now to see things. That's when actually all of this stuff that I noticed, how come here it takes me all of this time to start my business over there's 20 minutes here it's free, over there's $5.00 of dollars, all of this nonsense that I just took all maybe just because we messed up, we're poor, that's why everything is so messed up. Whoa, these people are introducing me to concepts. I'm like, first of all, I'm like, Whoa, these people are introducing me to concepts. I'm like, first of all, I'm like, oh, really? What did you call the doing business? And what is that?

You know, all of this stuff. And I'm starting to discover this whole of the body of work. What the free markets, this thing that I was sensing, this environment that I was sensing, that it was different around me. And that they called it the free markets over here. And over there, that. And then I started to butthead those ideas with ideas

that I was fed with before that. And the evidence won. And further, more than the evidence, the evidence combined with my lived experience, it was so powerful. So, I basically understood and understood these ideas from the most visceral part of my body, you know, of my being. And it makes sense. So, Michael, Michael helped me find the solution, the answer to my lifelong little girl's question of why do they have this and we don't,

and how do some countries like mine be poor while others are rich? And with the, with learning, with understanding all of that, the greatest, biggest sense of liberation came upon me. I have no other word to describe that. True liberation, the liberation that comes from a peer, to finally understand and be vindicated in your own, you know, understand, in your own deep knowing or feeling that they're not, what is saying is not true. You're not the problem. It's not you. There's something else. And when I discovered that, my whole life changed. So and since then, I have been, I've been very serious about going deeper and deeper and deeper into my understanding of all of this,

understanding the subtlety. At some point I was very angry about the liberators of Africa, because I was like, yes, you helped liberate us, but just to keep us in this merism, I was angry for a long time. And then eventually you have to engage empathy and love, to put yourself in their shoes and try to understand the time at which they were living. And that got me into a journey of trying to understand history more. That's how I understood I was able to go beyond these liberators and try to understand and rebuild the world around them at the macro and at the macro level. and also at the macro level. Just really, you have to try to walk in their shoes. And from there, finally separate the baby

with a bath water, but they were not able to do back then. That's why today, I'm sorry, but I have no patience for the BLM organizers, founders, especially founders. I don't know what the organizers think, but the founders told us what they stand for, and I say, guys, don't make that same mistake again. If you're serious about this, you cannot make that same mistake. The liberators of Africa, they have an excuse. We didn't know better. It was so easy back then to conflate everything. But today, you, me, anybody alive, cannot with a straight face.

I embrace Marxist socialist ideas, especially, especially when they're claiming that they want people to thrive. No, you can't. I'm sorry. And I will hold you, I will hold your feet up to the fire on that one. I will, I will. And that's what I'm doing. They will give me a lot of grief for this, but guess what? I could care less. Do you know why I could care less? Because we have an entire population to help rise out of property into prosperity where they become, you know, co-creators, global co-creators of innovation. And those ideas give you hope for the place you love, for Senegal, for Africa.

They do. They do. I live, the world I live in. The new centers of culture and fashion are in Decah. The new, the new, the new centers of tech and you know crypto even is somewhere maybe Nigeria. So you see that future you see that future clearly. I do I do I do. It's a beautiful thing and it's also beautiful to see that the space of these really powerful ideas is where you also fall in love. Right? So at the intersection at intersection, Michael would spend Michael and I would spend hours talking about all of these ideas.

And I would be like, but what about this? No, it doesn't make any sense. No, no, no, no. And then hours every single day for months, Lex. Yeah. And then from there, our love was born. Because I tell people, for us love is not about the case of NDIs, like you know, they all think. But it's about, look in one direction and in this case it's vis-vis-visioned, what we know to be possible and true.

If only you liberate people, what we know to be true and possible, we, all of us are miracles walking around. Every time I get on a plane, it's the miracle of engineering. All the things we're able to do, you know, now when they do operation on your teeth, how they're able to put the pain down away. All of this is us. You're working on these robots. This, this, this inside here. Humans are amazing. So that's why when it works in great tandem with this guy, these two working together.

Yeah. Ooh. Watch out. It's nothing we can't become. Nothing, nothing. Look, I, you're one of the most incredible people I've ever talked to. Oh, you say that.

You're amazing. Thank you so much. This was truly an honor. Thank you for everything you're doing. Thank you for the fire that burns within you. And it's just a passion you have for a place that's going to, I think, define the future of humanity. So thank you for everything you're doing.

Thank you for talking to that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you to you. And sometimes I hope this fire doesn't consume me. That's how much it is. But I am grateful to you for this. And yeah, thank you for, I know you don't do a lot of this,

you know, I am. It's a vista of interviews. Maybe I don't know, but I'm so, so happy. You mean fun, inspiring, powerful interviews. Yes, I need to do more. You're amazing. I don't know because at first I was like, Lex Friedman really?

You're really? How's this gonna go? Yeah, I'm gonna talk to Lex and go on quiz. I think you need to work on your unconscious bias. Why? Okay, you're the best. Thank you All right, thank you, my God. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Thanks for listening to this conversation with McGot Wade. To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now, let me leave you with some words from Nelsa Mandela. Money won't create success. The freedom to make it will. Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.

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