Loremen Podcast - Loremen S5Ep51 - Haunting Houses

Episode Date: September 26, 2024

The Loremen encounter what might be the biggest ghost in the history of the podcast. We're talking about a house that is a ghost. (Pretty big, right?) James takes Alasdair to the South West of England to view a property that's just come on the market and could vanish at any moment. Could this phantom maison be an echo of The Anarchy from the reign of King Stephen? Or do lone walkers on the moor go a bit funny sometimes? Enjoy this week's tales, drawn from the writing of Janet & Colin Bord and Christ in a hole! It's... Christina Hole. Come see the Loreboys LIVE in spooky West Norwood Cemetery on Friday 11th October 2024 (2024): https://choose-se27-comedy-festival.designmynight.com/66968247e76bce06372992c8/loremen-podcast-live-recording This episode was edited by Joseph Burrows - Audio Editor. LoreBoys nether say die! Support the Loremen here (and get stuff): patreon.com/loremenpod ko-fi.com/loremen Check the sweet, sweet merch here... https://www.teepublic.com/stores/loremen-podcast?ref_id=24631 @loremenpod youtube.com/loremenpodcast www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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This place will not break us. The Phenomenon returns to Paramount Plus. The only way we go home is together. From new season now streaming exclusively on Paramount Plus. Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm James Shake Shaft. And I'm Alistair Beckett King. And Alistair, I have got one of the most excellently titled episodes of recent times.

And we've had some good titles. Yes, that's quite a boast, sir. Yeah. Well, you'll see when it comes to the scoring section. And you score me highly because it is Haunting Houses. Ooh. Mm. Ooh. Mm. What does it mean? Well, have a listen. Alistair Beckett King. Yes, James Francis Shakespeare.

Effing Shakespeare, that's right. Is that, did I get your middle name right? You did, yes. Oh, that's got to be top friend points for knowing that. Or guessing that accurately. Yeah, wow. Alistair James Beckett King. Yes, correct. Double high fives.

I nearly said Alistair James Shake Shaft. Yeah, my parents wanted to meet. They wanted to call me that. They named you after Donkey. Donkey Shake Shaft, for listeners, is my great-grandfather. Go and do your reading in the previous episodes if you didn't understand that. Well Alistair, boy oh boy, I've got some spooky stuff for you today. Thank you.

You know, on the podcast, we've talked about haunted houses. Many times. And you know, on the podcast, we've talked about dream houses. And I don't mean that in like location, location, location, or, you know, love it or list it type thing. The Barbie sense of Barbie dream house. Is that what we're talking? Literal dream houses, houses that people have dreamt about and then seen in real life and

there's been some sort of... Oh, I don't think I've heard of that. But we've talked about it literally on the podcast. In that case, I have heard of that. You've definitely heard it. Whether you've listened... Is a different thing. But I didn't bring you here to talk to you like a supply teacher.

No, didn't you? No, not today. I am chewing, by the way. Are you concerned? This is your own time you are wasting. All right, fine. I don't respect you because I've just met you and we have not developed a rapport. Could you write your name down on this map I have made of the desks and then I will know who you are.

Could you not write a silly name, please? No, I want to talk to you about a kind of a combination of those things, the spooky things, not the like TV program type things. Yep. Not the property TV show type things. Alistair, I want to talk to you about haunting houses. Haunting houses. Great hook. I've no idea what that means, but I'm intrigued.

I'm not sure it's particularly accurate, but it just sounds good. And I think I'm going to even use it as a category. I was going to say that's got episode title potential. We're going to talk about the haunting houses of the Southwest even. Wow. To kind of, you know, make it a little bit more relatable. Why is that more relatable? I've got no idea.

I don't know why I think any of the stuff we talk about is relatable. Hey, listen here, you like things from the Southwest, right? That's everyone's favorite direction. Just super relatable. I want to talk to you about ghost houses. Tell me about these haunting houses, James. Right. Well, we're going to be meeting some friends of the show on the way. Don't you worry, because I got some new books recently by the authors of Mysterious Britain, aka Janet and Colin Baud, who have written such tomes as Mysterious Britain,

The Secret Country, subtitle More Mysterious Britain. Will Barron Oh, they really revealed the secret quite early on there about which country it is. Alistair A guide to ancient sites in Britain, alien animals, crammed with arcane information not only on BHMs, big hairy monsters, but black dogs, lake monsters, giant birds and other remarkable manifestations. And such books as the Bigfoot Casebook, a mysterious tall hairy man beast. It's so relatable.

Sorry, are you seeing yourself? Is it like looking into a book mirror? hairy man beast. It's so relatable. Sorry. Are you seeing yourself? Is it like looking into a book mirror? It is like, it's like reading a blurb mirror. The Bigfoot case book sounds like something you would have got him like a filofax, like a fun facts as a kid. Yes, definitely. There's pictures of him to color. There's a word search. And all the words are foot. Yes, there. There's pictures of him to colour, there's a word search. And all the words are foot. Yes, there's probably are.

Bigfoot has got his hair tangled and only one of the hairs leads to a pie, whatever a Bigfoot eats. Can you help him? Was it fava beans? Or is that the skunk ape, wasn't it? I mean, that's not split hairs, they're all the same. And as people who follow our Insta feed will have seen, I've got two new books by them. These twin tomes are Ancient Mysteries of Britain and Modern Mysteries of Britain.

Really really sticking with the Britain theme, deviating very occasionally to go big foot. Yes. So, but between those, I think I've got all mysteries of Britain covered up to the 1970s. Thank you to the boards. Yes. But it is to the modern mysteries of Britain that I want to refer this time. And specifically the chapter entitled, ghostly houses and vehicles.

We're not going to be touching on the vehicles, vehicle fans. It's just going to be the houses today. Oh no, one day. We'll get to it. Don't worry. And one of the reason the houses particularly caught my eye is because one of the stories cites its source as being haunted England by friend of the show Christ in a hole. It's Christine.

A hole. That's right. And you extended the hole as if someone had just scored in a whatever sport this is. But this story comes from Somerset. In fact, near somewhere we've talked about before Cadbury Fort which we talked about before because I think it's potentially like the house of some fairies in Somerset in the episode Somerset fairies we cover it we didn't cover this story. I miss story was actually directly directly related to CNNH by a woman who lives in the area and her family's lived in the area for ages. And a friend visited her. Now first of all, I've tried to do some fact checking here because it says the friend visited

her just after a war or in fact what Christenholz specifically says, a friend who stayed with her shortly after the end of the last war. Modern Mysteries of Britain by Janet and Colin Baud, they say it's the end of world war II. But I looked up when haunted England by CNNH was published and that was 1940. So I don't think that was world war II. Although there was a second edition in the summer of 1949 and Christen Hull says, the publication of this issue was long delayed by production difficulties.

I've made various minor corrections, added to note on Borely Rectory and entirely remade the bibliography and index. She doesn't mention she heard an excellent story about a ghost house from near Cadbury Fort. Yeah, but she could have updated which war? No, because then the previous version would have been the next war. That doesn't make any sense. Or the current war. Shortly after the end of the next, of the, yes. Yeah, yeah.

That's because that would be the future. Now I understand. Yes, I think you're right then. It must be the First World War. Or the Great War. It was a war. Let's just, let's just agree that it was a war. Well, thank you for trying to fact check that.

That was good. I mean, yeah, but to be honest, the difference of about 30 years is somewhat immaterial as we will find out. So anyway, this friend has gone for a walk, presumably to get over the war or just war in general. And she sees a very old and beautiful house stood by itself in a field. And now she's done this work a couple of times before, but has not noticed this big old house. Okay.

Now we're cooking. Yes. I mean, potentially it could have been because of all the brooding, but I think this house is big enough to even cut through the bluest funk. So she sees this house. And the other thing about this house that was particularly notable was the two people standing outside. There was a man and a little boy and they were wearing Alistair ye oldie worldie clothes. Will Barron Well, I guess. Yeah,

I'm picturing that little boy I met in Yorkshire that time when I was filming a thing. Do you remember that story? No. I think maybe it's in one of the extras. When I was a film student in Yorkshire, a family approached and they were very weird. And there was a young boy dressed like an old and dazed farmer. And he, it was a mother and a girl and a boy, and they sort of sent the boy to talk to us and they didn't seem to understand what we were doing. And we explained, we were just making a film.

And I went back and I heard him say to his mom, like, they're just taking a picture. So he didn't know what a video camera was. That is spooky. I think I, Oh, it was just Yorkshire. How to say, snippets just Yorkshire. You know, he is. A little, little, how to say. Snippet of Yorkshire life. I'm sure he was wearing braces and a flat cap, at least in my memory. They're probably all dressed like that now because of Peaky Blinders or something.

So he could have been from the future. Could have been from the future. And he'd be like, why is his phone so big? I was up in the North East a while ago and you know, you know what fringes are doing there? No. Young guys, like sort of 18 year old know what fringes are doing there? No. Young guys, like sort of 18 year old guys fringes. Right, go on.

Are just incredibly swoopy. They're like a beautifully curved bird's wing. Oh really? Because when I was a kid, you'd have a small, you know, the cool boys would have a small fringe, like a curved out, like a little fluffy fringe at the front straight up or just what no curved like over a Coke can. Oh yes. I I've seen people use Coke cans to get the exact angle and no, and like a number three or four on the rest of their head. So it's like, I've seen it.

Exactly. So it's just a fringe. Like a cup that was the style wet look at the time comb, but it's the opposite. Now it's just a fringe. That was the style. Like a wet look. At the time. Comb. But it's the opposite now. It's the opposite in the Northeast. And I've not seen this anywhere else in the country. When I was traveling around recently. Yeah, a real swooshy long fluffy fringe right at the front. And you'll see four young guys with identical fringes.

Wow. And do they know that people in the rest of the country are not doing that? I don't know. I think there was a fa- I remember a fad for it, but it was like ages ago when like your One Directions were just starting out. Is it possible that it just reached Whitby? That could be it. Cause it was like, it was like, what's it called?

Not your part, but your crown of your hair was like, it seemed to be fashionable to have the crown of your head sort of just above you and in front of your ear. If you can imagine that's where the hair emanated from. Anyway, them days are past. The kid and the old man were both wearing clothes of a bygone era. Ye oldie worldie. Olden days clothes. Olden days clothes. The woman couldn't kind of work out exactly when it was, but judging by the clothes, she

could tell that the child was of higher rank than the man. But the other weird thing about these two people was that they vanished while she was looking at them. Whoa! You buried the lead there, James. I did a bit. I took a little sidebar there, but yeah, they just- You let me talk about fringes for a while. That probably won't make it into the edit, but still…

Put it back in. It was good. It's good fringe chat. I want to be up to date on the haircuts. In case you have to go to ground in Whitby and blend in with the teens. Exactly. Yeah. I'd still be drying it over a Coke can like an absolute fool. It's under a Coke can, man! Wait a minute. Is it? Well, it swoops. It curves upwards now. That's the a Coke can man. Wait a minute. Is it? Well, it's whoops. It curves upwards now.

That's the thing. Rather than downwards. Yes. Concave convex rather than concave. I suppose it depends on which side you're looking at it from. Good point. Great. Yeah.

Anyway, so yeah, these two vanishing people back to that. Well, let's get off fringes for a second. They vanished while she was looking at them. And she went back to her host. And now, she's quite clever here because she doesn't go in straight away with, you know, them two ghosts. She goes back to the host and says, well, she starts asking about the house in the field over there.

It's kind of like in that way, you know, when you want to gossip about someone, but you don't know if the other person's noticed the thing that you've noticed. So you kind of dance, do a little vocal dance around it. She sort of expected her mate to go, oh, you mean the house with the disappearing boy and man outside of it? But a friend was like, what house? There's no house there. And in fact, she's quoted as saying, no such house, nor had there been one on that site

within living memory, which seems a bit much. Wow. But it certainly, it certainly, you know, wraps up all the loose ends on that. So the friend told her like the full story of what she'd seen and she was sort of trying to find out if there was like stories of a ghost or something around there, but there was nothing. There was no legends as far as they know. And then later the local lady unsurprisingly looked into it and found that during the anarchy, do you know what that is, Alastair?

Is that the Civil War? Origins, yes. Civil War point zero, which happened in 1138 to 1153. Oh, wow. Oh, I see. That's way earlier than the civil war. It's a civil war that they don't want you to know about. England was kind of quite a lot of France as well at that point.

It was Stephen versus Matilda. I think the reason people don't want you to know about it is because it's really confusing. I'll come to it in a minute. But basically, ultimately, Prince Henry, who later became Henry II, was sent to live in the southwest of England for a bit when he was about nine. He was educated in Bristol and also apparently stayed near Cadbury Fort, the exact location of which has been forgotten for centuries. So that's what CNAH thinks. An interesting point she notes is that the lady concerned was not especially interested in Stephen's reign and had no knowledge

that the future Henry II had ever even been in the Dixstrict. Do you want to know a little bit about the anarchy? I've done a bit of research. Well, I think I know where I am now because we're talking CAD file time. So King Stephen is, becomes King, I think over the course of CAD files, many adventures. Now it's a particularly confusing point in history because King Stephen, who was Henry, the first son married to a woman called Matilda and his rival was also called Matilda, which may have been or caused caused a lot of awkward conversations. That's just way too many, too many Tildes really. The, the rival Matilda was also him and his wife, Matilda's cousin.

Cause I think there just weren't enough people around there. Yeah. There was a real shortage in those days. It was, it was basically, there was a war of succession because Billy the conk, William the Conqueror, friend of the show, I'm not sure, person mentioned on the show. Just look into whether he's a good guy or not. Basically, his successors rattled through the English crown and there weren't really

many firm rules of succession. So, Billy the Conk's first son got Normandy and his second son, William II, with electric Conqueror, got England. But Billy II died and his younger brother, Henry I, succeeded. And he named his daughter Matilda as the heir, which was very unpopular with everyone because unsurprisingly, they were sexist. Oh yeah, sorry. I thought they just had another name, Matilda. I see what you mean. They objected to him naming her as his heir. I thought you meant they objected to him naming her Matilda.

Well, to be honest, it was also became confusing. So maybe some people had that problem. And she, but also she was married to Jeffrey of Anjou, which is like the mortal enemy of Normandy. So they didn't like her for that. It's kind of sauce, isn't it? Is it? At most French places are a source of some kind. Or a feeling.

But then when Henry one died, Stephen claimed the throne and then the anarchy happened and in the end it got tidied up because of the Treaty of Wallingford, aka the Treaty of Winchester, aka the Treaty of Westminster. Will Barron Now call me an old stickler, but they are different places. Alistair Duggan They're all different places. The only thing they got in common is they all begin with W. So I think... Will Barron Right. So what's happened there?

Alistair Duggan It feels like someone was entrusted with some information and they forgot most of it. But I knew it was a W. Is it Wimbledon? Could it be Wimbledon? West somewhere? It's Whitby. You can tell from the fringes. And that, yeah.

And according to that treaty, Stephen agreed to adopt Matilda's son, Henry, also called Henry, which must've been easy for names because he was basically adopted by another woman called Matilda, but actually thinking about it, he would have just called her mum. And Henry too was that ghost boy. Right. I mean, that hasn't cleared it up at all. Not at all. For context, Henry too was the first Plantagenet. He's Richard the Lionheart's dad, and also Evil King John's dad from Robin Hood, the cartoon. But most importantly, he did not die as a child. So I don't know why the ghost is there.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And that kind of spoils it a little bit. I think they struck me as being more likely to be fairies. Do you think so? As a skeptic. I think they're fairies. Okay.

I just want to tack this in here. This all happened quite near the towns King Camel and Queen Camel. King Camel and Queen Camel are towns in Somerset. Near Cadbury Fort. Didn't even look up why. And then Alistair, I've got another little tale of a ghost house from the Southwest. So this happened in the 1960s on the eastern edge of Dartmoor near Haytor. Ruth St. Ledger Gordon, including details of this in her book, The Witchcraft and Folklore of Dartmoor. This is again referenced

in Janet and Colin Baud's Modern Mysteries of Britain, 100 Years of Strange Events. I think you don't have to say the subtitle every time, but I appreciate that you do. I respect that. I bet Janet and Colin respect that. And this place is called Hay Tor. Hay Tor. Yes. Hay Tor as in gonna hate. Exactly.

But it's more, it's Hay Tor like a, like a sort of, like a Tor stone, but made out of hay. Ah, like T-O-R Tor. Yeah. H-A-Y-T-O-R. It's like the one, there was that one, then there was Sticks tour, and then they started making them out of stone and the wolf got really annoyed. I believed you for a second there.

I led you a Medi-dance. And she, so she published the story of this, this cottage that vanished. And then she received a visit from a surveyor for the Ordnance Survey who'd been working in the Haight-Haw area. And this is what she reported. Looking down on this terrain from a high vantage point to check his map, he noticed one cottage that he had apparently missed. Smoke was rising from the chimneys and clothes blowing on the line. To remedy the emission, he pinpointed and walked down to the exact spot. He tooth combed the vicinity but could find no

cottage or trace of any building. Encountering a lady exercising her dog, he inquired where this cottage might be. Her reply surprised him. She too had seen it once but had never been able to locate it again. Oh, very spooky. Just to be clear, she was exercising her dog, not exorcising her dog. It's with it, it's spelt with a knee, but again, it could have been a mistranslation. Could have been a bit spooky. Yeah. I don't think... The power of Christ compels you to fetch.

To do your doings here. Your mother chews socks in hell. That's a compliment to a dog though, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think the tooth combing the vicinity seems a little bit much. I mean, you don't need to tooth comb to tell if a house is there. No, no. That you've seen. Is it a very hilly area? Could it have been obscured by a hillock? I don't know, but this, the Ordnance Survey guy, he's going to know his stuff.

They're pretty serious, aren't they, the Ordnance Survey guy, he's going to know his stuff. They're pretty serious, aren't they? The Ordnance Survey guys. Unless it's like a real life, one of those fake streets that they put in to stop people like copying maps and stuff. Well, what's the name for that? We better find out the name for that. Trap Street. Trap Street.

Yeah. That's a cool idea, isn't it? It is a fun idea. It's good for a pub quiz, isn't it? It is a fun idea. It's good for a pub quiz. Isn't it? It's a good bit of knowledge to know. And I feel like I might have pronounced Ordnance Survey as Ordinance Survey earlier, and I don't want to get emails. I just want to say I know it's Ordinance, not Ordinance. But yeah, maybe it's like a real life trap street, that cottage.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know to what end, but maybe it just traps people. I'm telling you, this is the work of fairies. Yeah, it does sound quite fairy rather than haunting. It's got fairy written all over it. I think it does. So there you go, Alistair. There's a couple of haunting houses. Thank you very much. The haunting houses of the Southwest, the most popular and mainstream direction. I think that's the direction, one direction we're talking about.

I must have been. It's it's the direction the fringes all point. If you just if you just shake up those those kids, eventually they all align. They do. Yeah. The fringes align. I feel like I have been making fun of people's hair a bit too much in this episode. I feel like people in glass houses mm hmm. That might explain how a house could

vanish though, if it were made of glass. You could see it from one angle, but not from another. Exactly. Still a sort of palace of glass fairy business. Obvious fairy business. So Alistair, shall we score? Yes, please. First up, names. Well, yeah, we had a lot of fun with friend of the show, Christ in a Hole. It's Christina Hole.

Didn't we just? Imagining our Lord Jesus Christ if he was in a well. However, that name has come up before. It feels a little bit like triple dipping or quintuple sextuple dipping at this point. A dodeca-dipple. Oh, I'm back on board. Yeah. But we did also, I mean, just as an aside, we had BHM's Big Hairy Monsters.

BHM's Big Hairy Monsters. Yes. And the Bigfoot Casebook. Yeah. Yeah. Some good book titles. That's true. Yes.

And the names we've got for Queens, everything from Matilda to also Matilda. To Empress Matilda, I think she ended up being, cause she married the one of the Matildas, I think the one that was fighting Stephen run, the married to Stephen. She married like the head of the Holy Roman empire or whatever it was called. Wow. Whether it rebadged itself as. You versus the Matilda they tell Roman Empire or whatever it was called. Wow. Whatever it rebadged itself as. You versus the Matilda they tell you not to worry about.

Wow. King Stephen. Now that is not a cool name. It's just King Stephen. I think William the second was known as Rufus. Oh, did he have red hair? I don't know. Maybe he did. Is that a thing? What Rufus means red?

Does it? I think so. Oh, maybe that then. So yeah, keep your Matildas close and your Matildas closer. Yep. Yes. Great point. Lots of good names and haunting houses I really, I really liked. However, I don't think I can give it a proper five or a four because the more I heard, the more I was convinced that no ghostly business was at play and that we were dealing with the Fay folk. So I don't actually think it's a haunting.

So I'm going to say three. This is names. I think you've, I think you've revealed your hand for Supernatural. I may have tipped my hand for Supernatural. That's true. What about, wait a minute. What about King and Queen camel? All right. Four.

Yes. Four for King camel. Two towns that sound like cigarettes. Yes. Okay then. I got a feeling I know which way you're going to go then. Supernatural. Well, James, I think fairies are supernatural.

Oh yeah. Yeah. You're the one who only scores ghosts high and scores everything else low. Yes. I love fairies. I think they're much spookier than ghosts. And I think we're dealing with two lots of fairies here. It feels like three would be the correct number of stories for an episode though. I mean, coming down Cadbury Fort on Midsummer's Eve, someone was driving and they sort of had bright lights. An emergency telegrammatic. Yeah. Breaking news.

The bright lights were the tips of lances with flames on them and it was a troop of armed warriors and at the head rode a mounted man of great stature and imposing appearance. And that was, oh no, wait a minute, this was seen by the woman, the hostess from earlier. The same, oh, she's just become less reliable. Oh damn. Yeah. She basically saw probably King Arthur's ghost because it's King Arthur's hunting causeway is the name of the road.

The road is called King Arthur's hunting causeway. Yeah. I don't think that ordinate survey guy would have been very happy with that at all. Midsummer's Eve? Yeah, okay. Yeah, okay. Including that one. I'm going to say it's a four.

Yes. I really liked the first one. I have been very generous there. So expect me to crack down capriciously like a fairy would. I've given you a little gift. You've tasted of my banquet. Okay. The next category is, and I presume this made the edit, is people in glass houses.

Okay. Because you shouldn't throw stones, but also a glass house could become invisible. Is that your, is that your theory? I think so. Yes. If that gets me points. Okay. And how do the people who vanished, how did they do that?

I don't think you've thought this category through at all. Didn't they add a glass outfit? People in glass pajamas. Right. Which is really not move. Yeah, she'd stand still now. Stay still and call a friend if you're in glass pajamas. Definitely don't drop and roll.

Oh, oh no. You're going to have to hope it's that fireproof glass that goes into beads. Forgot about the people involved. Thought it was just buildings that would vanish. They would vanish if you looked at them from another angle, but also people would have mentioned that they were probably made of glass rather than the carpet. They would have mentioned that. And they might not vanish from another angle. They'd just be less visible. So I'm very flattered that you came up with a category based on something I said. And I'm even more delighted to give it such a low score. And that is not an acceptable explanation for what we just heard.

One out of five. Okay. All right. Okay. All right. Okay. In which case my final category is don't be a hater and don't look for it. It's not there. Okay. You've kind of crammed two things into one category there.

I have crammed two things into one there. So, but don't, but I'm not going to be a hater. Follow the follow the advice. Yes. Yeah. Well, it feels quite pointed after I just gave you one. So, okay. Yeah. What's not there?

Those houses aren't there because they're not there. Not there. Yeah. That's two solid examples of it not being there. Don't look for King Arthur's. Horseshoe. I think there's, yeah, there's like a silver horseshoe or something disappeared and the Crown of England And the logic in the succession

of the Crown of England at that time in history, do not look for it. It is not there during the anarchy, which is evidently the name of that period of history. Will Barron Well, I'm going to say it's four and it would have been five were there not so many Matildas, because the likelihood of you finding a Matilda if you were looking for one was high. Al mean, yes. If you would chuck a stone, you'd hit a Matilda and probably a glass house as well. So it's unadvisable. I think they named their kid Matilda as well. What? A third Matilda? Yeah. The third Matilda has entered the story. What a late breaking Matilda.

So it's a fall. Yeah. There we go. How haunting were those houses? They were very haunting. What would people do if they wanted to come and see us record one of these episodes live? They could buy tickets to see us perform at West Norwood Cemetery on the 11th of October. At 8pm?

At 8pm indeed. And if you would like to listen to bonus material from Lawmen and get ad-free episodes and join the Lawfolk Discord, then join us at patreon.com forward slash lawmen pod. And thank you, Joe, for editing it. And thank you, the listener, for listening. And hey, give us a five stars on your podcast place where you get them. It actually does help. It does actually help, it turns out.

I'm still down here. It's not a trick. I'm still down here. It's not a trick. We know you, Jesus, is probably a trick. It's one of your Jesus tricks, isn't it, Jesus? No.