Loremen Podcast - S1 Ep7: Loremen S1 Ep7 - Baa and The Wilnecker Paradox

Episode Date: February 1, 2018

The Loremen "solve" a sheep-themed murder mystery and discover the greatest writer in Wessex (allegedly). Loreboys nether say die! Check the sweet, sweet merch here... https://www.teepublic.com/stores/loremen-podcast?ref_id=24631 Support the Loremen here (and get stuff): patreon.com/loremenpod ko-fi.com/loremen @loremenpod www.twitch.tv/loremenpod www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod

Welcome to Lawmen, the podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm Alistair Beckett-King. And I'm Alistair's landlord and master, James Shakeshaft. Here's a cautionary tale about being just annoying this comes from a book called Oxfordshire Stories of the Supernatural that is quality front cover it is a generic front cover unfortunately it's a picture

it's sort of a blurred picture of a ghostly skeletal monk pointing at a book with a map that says Oxfordshire. And I thought, oh, that's quite cool and a neat book. And then I got one in the same range of Derbyshire stories of the supernatural. They just changed the name on the map. Changed the name on the map.

Yeah. And on the cover of the book. Yeah. But this one's by Betty Puttick. A good name. It's a puttick. You know it's But this one's by Betty Puttick. Hmm. A good name. It's a puttick, you know it's going to be good.

Betty Puttick. And this is a story entitled Never Say Bah. This happened in Oxfordshire as the skeletal monk. You're pointing at

the book. Right, you're pointing at the book. Yeah. And it was a guy called William Eden. His nickname was Noble.

Noble Eden. He came to a sad end on his way home from Tamer Market in 1828. And all because of his unfortunate sense of humour. Interest peaked? Yeah, absolutely. Good. So what it was, Eden was a market gardener. And one day when he was, you know, doing his gardening in his garden,

he saw two local wrong-uns, Sewell and Tyler, and they were stealing a sheep from one of his neighbours. I'm laughing at this. I'm visualising two men carrying a sheep. Making off with a sheep. Maybe putting it in a jacket. Yeah. It's a lot of fun.

But the penalty for sheep stealing was transportation or death at this time. So when the police came round... That would be transportation to Australia. Yes, I guess. Yeah. Not just a lift. Yeah. You've got to live on a train.

So Eddon kept quiet when the police came round because, you know, he knew these people, they're local. They're my wrong-uns, but he doesn't want to kill them. But he was a bit of a japester. And so whenever he saw these guys knocking around the place, he would bar like a sheep. That's what that implies. Yeah.

I've seen you lads. He was amused by their like red faces and angry reactions. Foolishly amused by it because they very quickly realized that their liberty was reliant on his silence and if they're if you're the sort of person that's going to risk death or transportation to nick a sheep you're not going to be above killing someone to shut them up are you probably not and he did it for a bit and then he was about to return from tame

market uh on this fateful night. And he seemed to have some sort of premonition. He told the friend he was traveling with that he feared something bad was going to happen to him. And his friend said, and this is noted here, his companion offered to continue all the way home. But Eden laughed it off and sent him on his way. However, Eden's premonition came true. Sewell and Tyler were lying in wait for him. And as he reached Anksy Bushes, he was set upon and murdered.

Now, one of my favourite opening words for a paragraph in these sort of stories. Meanwhile, Mrs. Eden was at home in the kitchen and she saw a frightening vision she looked up and saw her husband walking towards her and behind him unbeknownst to him was tyler with a heavy stone hammer about to bring it down on her husband's head and then he did he did bring it down on husband's head uh and she she screamed obviously as and as the she ran out screaming my husband's been murdered my husband's been murdered there was a search and they found the body of noble and as it says in this reporting of the story it was too late he'd been savagely bludgeoned to death sorry i shouldn't well it's not appropriate it's i think it's an inappropriate

sentence um so she and she was convinced it was was Tyler because she'd seen him in the vision. But unfortunately, a vision was not considered to be evidence in 1828. So the verdict of the inquest was murder by person or persons unknown. Now, she was not going to let it rest there, the widow. In those days, it was believed that the body of the victim of a murder would bleed when touched by the murderer as a sort of sign that this was you know the murderer so she challenged tyler to come and touch her husband's corpse he didn't uh what could be more suspicious than refusing to touch someone's corpse i don't know it's like a man who barred at you all time. His mad wife. And then sometime afterwards,

his son, their son, Eden's son, was driving home and two men waylaid him in the dark and threatened to, you know, the same thing that had happened to his father. He didn't see their faces and he managed to beat them off. Not my words, the words of Betty Puttick. And he escaped, but he was convinced by their voices that these attackers were sewell and tyler

and then before too long sewell was imprisoned and in prison he sang like a canary he hinted that tyler was implicated uh in this murder and tyler was subsequently arrested but discharged because there was a lack of evidence and tyler's reaction to this was he adorned his hat and coat with coloured ribbons and danced around outside the houses of people that had given evidence against him. If you testify against the boss, you're going to regret it. He's going to dance around inside your house with a series of ribbons adorning his clothing, and it's going to be very mocking. So you are not going to dance around inside your house with a series of ribbons adorning his clothing. And it's going to be very mocking. So you are not going to enjoy that.

So, yeah, it seems they got away. But then Sewell was captured again stealing chickens this time. And this time he really realized, look, I've got more evidence against Tyler. It was Tyler that, because this time he was going to get transported for 14 years. He just went all in. He said, I've got evidence against Tyler. I witnessed him killing him. This is me quoting Sewell.

I witnessed Tyler kill him with a stone hammer. And this time they were both charged, found guilty, and sentenced to death. So Sewell, he turned state's evidence, but then they still sentenced him to death. Yeah, on the 8th of March, 1830, a crowd of 5,000 people gathered outside Aylesbury Prison to see them hanged. Tyler swore that he was innocent right up till his death, but he was basically hanged on the basis of

a madman's mad widow's vision and a partner who wanted to get out of getting sent to Australia for 14 years. So he wanted to get out of being sent to Australia, and in the end he was killed. He was killed. Which is a narrow escape, if ever there was one. Yeah. And the ghost of Noble Eden,

if you encounter it at the crossroads on the Tame to Aylesbury Road, it is a sign of good luck. Does he bar at you? I don't think he bars from beyond the grave, no. But I've always noticed... He's up there behind still. I have noticed

when you see a bunch of sheep in a field and they do bar, there is always one that sounds like a bloke doing an impression of a sheep. There's like... And then one just goes...

I just imagine that's a bloke in a gone deep cover yeah so yeah that's the that's the story of Noble Eden I think

Noble must be an ironic nickname in the it's a fairly ignoble end yes scores for Never Say Bar

I can't believe that Never Say Bar is what the locals call it. It's not a James Bond film. That's it. James Bond never does say bar at any point. That's true. In any of the films. So it could be the name of any one of them. All right.

So what categories have you got? Okay. Supernatural. Supernatural. You've got a ghost. Yeah. Admittedly, he's just tagged on at the end. Sort of tacked on at the end, supernatural. Supernatural. You've got a ghost. Yeah. Admittedly, he's just tagged on at the end. Sort of tagged on at the end, yeah.

Sort of brackets and also be a ghost. And he's a good luck ghost as well. Yeah, he's a nice ghost. And we have a vision. Yep. Which is certainly outside of the realms of science. Yes. And we have corpses bleeding when you poke them.

The idea of it, but it doesn't actually happen. Anything else you want to pitch for being supernatural? There's the Eddins premonition that something might happen that he very quickly brushes off. He had a premonition and then she had a vision. And then he becomes a ghost. I'm looking at the book that is lying open here and I can see something you said that I didn't realise was a direct quote was,

a vision was not considered to be evidence yes so I think it's a three I think it's a three yeah and I think you should be glad of that

yeah no this is more of a true crime it's more of it is more hard boiled more gritty there's a little bit of there's a little bit of spice about it

but yeah three's fair enough naming I think the names are quite good but first of all the name of the story is brilliant Never Say Bah by Betty Puttick

by Betty Puttick so as told by Betty Puttick as told yes William Noble Eden he's not

particularly noble no it's maybe he had no ball someone stole it and he would not dob him in oh that's my baby White Leaves Noble

because he doesn't grass well I don't think that's particularly noble the noble thing to do would be to bring people to justice we've got Tyler and Eden Oh, that's my baby Whiteley's noble, because he doesn't grass. Well, I don't think that's particularly noble. The noble thing to do would be to bring people to justice. We've got Tyler and Eden and Sewell.

Sewell. Sewell. Sewell and Tyler. How is Sewell spelt? Sewell. S-E-W-E-L-L. Oh, right, yeah. As in Brian. Imagine if he spoke like Brian Sewell throughout the whole story.

Well, that would be how the kid recognised him in the dark as a threat. I think we should stop saying things about us doing the murder and the sheep theft. Wasn't us. We will treat you as we had

treated your father. Both of them sounded like Brian Thorpe. Yeah. Tyler. Nice rural name. Tyler. Tyler as well.

O-R at the as well O-R at the end Anxie Bushes Anxie Bushes yeah Tame was a place name I always find amusing hmm

that's right it's spelt fame right it's spelt fame I think these are all good names I think it's a four yes I think it's a good strong four solid four

if we know Mrs. Eddins first name that might have been a little bit yeah if her name was called something like Hackety, then I would have given that five.

This category is Quest for Justice slash corpse poking. I like it because, as you said, it's a noir-ish thriller and it sort of follows the killing style.

There's been a murder and we just unravel it over a series of ludicrous episodes. And eventually she does get her man yeah a man who claims he was completely innocent is hanged to death

yes so a happy ending for all yes well I didn't I didn't know about the corpse poking thing no that people believed that touching a corpse would cause it to bleed

if you're the murderer if you're the murderer they also used to believe that the eyes contained an image of the last person, the last thing you saw when you died. Oh, really? And so they spent ages photographing dead people's eyes, hoping that an image of the murderer would, a bit later than this, in the 19th century, hoping that an image of the murderer would be in the eye.

But it turned out not. Or it was a cameraman. I can't believe I did all these murders. well it looks like it was me so the corpse poking is cool and her quest for justice is uh and so she's fairly tenacious is it's also the actions of a mad woman it is also the actions of a mad woman but i think that's what makes her a gripping protagonist. I think it's five. Although on the other hand it is the sad story of a mad lady hounding a person to his death. We've also

we've only got Eden's word that there even was a sheep rustling in the first place. It may be that these are just two innocent guys he just started barring at them like a weirdo and then was killed

for being annoying someone else might have killed him because he was just he was a madcap fool and then this this Mrs. Eden gets it in her head

that it was Tyler that what done it I don't think so because and here's I've had to lay my evidence on the table in front of you that evidence

is some ribbons as long as your evidence wasn't a vision. No. It's the solid gold evidence that the dancing in ribbons is as good as a confession. That is incontrovertible cast iron evidence. So wait a minute, because he's happy that he didn't get... It's the taunting. The taunting makes me convinced that he definitely did it.

I'm like the people commenting on that Amanda Knox documentary on Netflix. I don't care. I'm convinced. He did it. Maybe he was going to go dance with ribbons anyway, and it just happened to be by there. It's five out of five. I don't know why you're trying to talk me out of it.

I don't know why. I'm convinced he was guilty. Okay. I don't know why I sighed there. I'm getting points. I'm getting five out of five. I'll't know why I sighed there. I'm getting points. I'm getting five out of five. I'll take those five out of fives. And the final category, heckler put down.

Explain the category title to me. Well, because it's described in the story. And again, we've only got the word of Eden that this barring is a joke. Well, because it's not a very good joke. You and I know that in comedy gigs, if you say where are you from and someone says Wales, some wag at the back of the room will make a sheep noise. Yes. And no one ever laughs.

No. And yeah, that joke happens consistently whenever anyone mentions Wales, for instance. Yes. Which must be very annoying for the Welsh. Yes. So it is, as hecklesles go it's a rubbish heckle anybody who does it deserves to be

violently bludgeoned it says in this version of the story whenever he encountered them he would bar like a sheep it was a small town they were moving in the same circles

he would just be barring I mean Eddyn sounds like a bit of a probably one of those guys who after the gig come up to you and shake your hand as if they thought

they were helping I was helping in your sheep rustling. And it just got too much, yeah. As bad jokes go, every comedian has died on stage. Not that many people have been actually murdered because of their joke. No. So the consequences were very serious for Noble. So wait a minute, in this...

No, but he's not the comedian, he's the heckler. He's the heckler now. In this metaphor. Yeah, I've's not the comedian, he's the heckler in this metaphor. Yeah, I've mixed my analogies, I apologise. So let's just get this metaphor straight. Tyler or Saul

are the comedians doing their hilarious sheep rustling routine. Yes. Noble Eden wants to be part of the fun, so bars at them

whenever he sees them. They need to nip that heckle in the bud because it's ruining their act yeah sheep stealing they kill him with a hammer they slam him with a hammer yeah a pre or in comedy terms a pre-prepared insult yes perhaps and then as often happens in these situations his wife chips in yeah and they and tries you to get you to touch him it just like happens in normal gigs and so they like most of us doing that situation fall back on the ribbon dancing material yeah you've met a strong case i think it's a four read like a five in this story we meet the greatest writer in Wessex.

So, I have a story for you here. Well, not exactly a story. I have a local legend. Yes? In the form of a woman. Right. The author of many books. I have one of her books.

I say books. You can see from the thickness of it. It's, um, I would say it's four millimetres thick. It's in the pamphlet area. Yeah, that's... Wait a minute. If a booklet is a little book, what's a pamph? With bigger. Is it

held together with staples? Yes, we have got staples that's a pamphlet that's a pamphlet yes well no that's one up from a pamphlet it may be a booklet it's like a little baby book and her name is Patricia M Wilnecker

yeah when I read the name I said to Rachel my girlfriend I said Wilnecker I hardly know her she wasn't familiar with that format of joke it's a standard joke. Yeah, that's a classic, yeah. So I will refer to her as Patricia M. Will Necker. I hardly know her.

Would that occur? Throughout the rest of it. The reason I think she's a legend is, the book that I picked up is called Freshly Unearthed Ghostly Tales of Wessex. From the font, it's not clear whether Freshly Unearthed is a series of books, and this is one of them, or whether that's just the full title. So, in Ghostly Tales of Wessex, Patricia M. Wilnecker has gone round. Did you say?

I say would that I could for this one. There are other variations. She's gone round interviewing the elderly people of Poole, where she lives. In Dorset. In Dorset. I would have bloody loved the place. Should we do that again? No.

So, that's the that's the similar to the Wilnecker paradox it's another classic not paradox the Wilnecker Wilnecker paradox

possible title for this episode I don't know yours is less applicable because it's someone's got to mention Dorset for it to work not

even that's it's even worse than that they have to mention somewhere that you know is in the county of Dorset I would, I bloody love the place shall I just set you up properly

and we'll do it properly I'm keeping all this in so she's interviewed lots of people in the town of Poole in Dorset yes it is in Dorset sorry did I do it wrong i don't know what am i

supposed to do i'm supposed to say you go i go it's that's the thing it's one of them jokes where both people are telling the jokes right so sort of like i didn't realize there was pressure on me to do it oh my mate was telling me he's got like a a son, who is just getting into jokes and knock-knock jokes. And for some reason, so the kid's grandparents, somehow they don't understand knock-knock jokes. Or they never want to be told them. Because he'll go up and go, knock-knock. And they'll go, yeah, I'm opening the door. Hello?

And they go, no, who's there? So they go, right, okay. So he goes, knock-knock. They go, who's there? And he says, you know, doctor. And they go, no, who's there? So they go, right, okay. So he goes, knock, knock. They go, who's there? And he says, you know, doctor. And they go, no one's ill, it's okay. And they're not playing hard to get. It's like they genuinely don't know how a knock-knock joke should work,

should be done. Extraordinary incompetence. Or crawl on this kid. But they're right, you should nip it in the bud because he's about to get to the point where he thinks he can make up his own jokes as two comedians.

Yeah, oh yeah. Open mic children. Awful. No, in Dorset, of course I would have bloody loved the play. So that's the thing. It's a call and response

where both people have to sort of know the joke so it is literally pointless in doing it. So someone mentions a town in the county of Dorset and the listener says as a question

in Dorset pretends to mishear that as a request to endorse the place I bloody love the place. Well I just said it then so you could just edit that back onto it was a bit quiet and to be honest i don't want to give you notes but you didn't sound like you meant it no i've not been to dorset so i don't have any

strong opinions one way or the other um on the other hand i'll tell you who does and that's patricia m wilnecker good and um but what I like about her is her prose is surprisingly engaging. She's written several books. Most of them are about either the school that she went to as a girl or her dog, Bounty, her Jack Russell. To the extent that both the school she went to and her dog, Bounty, the Jack Russell, are both mentioned on the back cover of the book,

even though it's about neither of them um and there's a lovely picture of her lovely picture which is a picture of her and Bounty where Bounty is centre frame and she's veering she's actually being cut by the edge of the frame that's how important Bounty is that she's not even in it and there is a picture of a building in the background uh which could that be Parkstone Grammar School in Poole, Dorset? It must be. Her bibliography include A History of Upper Parkstone, a school,

Upper Parkstone in the Second World War, More Recollections of Upper Parkstone, that's the third instalment, Bounty, The Tale of a Dog, and if you Google her, that's the main one that comes up, Bounty, The Tale of a Dog, but she followed it up with

Wessex Walkies for You and Your Dog, and More Wessex Walkies for you and your dog. And more Wessex Walkies for you and your dog. And she's written a bit of historical fiction and non-fiction about things that have happened in Poole. But what I like about her is she is a master or mistress of irrelevant details. And I think this is demonstrated even in the title of the stories. These are the ones that are selected on the back as examples of the stories in the book. All right. The Man on the Bicycle.

The Ghost that Scared the Plumber. The Gypsy's Phantom Devil Horse, which has a nice rhythm to it. Now that's got spice. And the Old Dorset School. I wonder which school in Dorset it is. She definitely would. My favourite one by far, and it's the last story in the book, The Strange Spoon.

Oh, no. Which is just about a spoon. While she was writing the ghost story, she found a spoon. In the last place you would think to find a spoon, her coffee jar. What? Where she definitely didn't keep a spoon. So she found the spoon. She claims to have been visited by a spoon.

I was about to make a cup of coffee and there it was inside the jar. I've actually, I've closed the book as if to say, case closed. And it is still there to this day as far as I know. Wow. In the same coffee jar.

Her writing is actually quite engaging. I like her irrelevant details and I also like her use of capital letters. This is written in 1995. She's really captured the 21st century 9-11 truther style of capitalisation. So whenever something spooky comes in, she capitalises it so you don't miss the spooky.

Right. But if you have a look here, you can see that the first two pages have no capitalisation. That's because there's almost no spookiness happening, thanks to the irrelevant details. Surely italics are the... Tell pages have no capitalisation. That's because there's almost no spookiness happening, thanks to the irrelevant details. Surely italics are the... Tell it to Wilnecker. It's possible she didn't know how to get italics on Word. I wouldn't

rule that out. So I'm going to just, as a sample, I'd like to read some of the Market Street hauntings from Poole. Yeah, I just left a little space there in case you wanted to do the endorser joke. I'll just edit just edit the exact same version here we go

this is the the story that she was told by an architect who lives in Market Street one night he told me a very strange thing happened my son had been home

on vacation writing one of his theses I love the way parents drop that sort of thing oh he's writing several theses he liked to work in the spare bedroom

which was used as a library slash workroom and had gone out which was used as a library slash workroom, and had gone out for the evening with a friend while I started work renovating a staircase, removing paint from the Victorian balusters. He continued walking on one of them for a couple of hours, and still it was not finished. I'm going to bed early, said his wife as she passed by. I'm getting a shocking cold. You'd better put up the bed in the spare room. Don't want to catch it, do you? He agreed and went on working, taking about another 15 minutes to complete the job. The pine looked lovely, and he couldn't resist running his fingers over the silkiness of the wood, thinking he might have been the first person to have touched the actual

baluster in 200 years. He stroked the pine again, but now, as his fingers moved down the shaft of the miniature Tuscan column, so icy hands caressed his spine, moving endlessly. It was horrible, he told me. He went straight to the bathroom, turned on the hot tap, stripped, and got in, feeling a sense of relief as the heat of the water restored him to normality. In bed he felt better and must have slept until the early hours when suddenly, without warning, heavy ironclad boots clobbered

clumsily overhead. Good alliteration there. Strong men struggled, some siblings, to move heavy chests, turning them on their corners, grinding in the gritty dust, splintering the boards and occasionally losing control, crashing the chests to the floor. He heard men's boots clattering as they lost

their footing. It was terrifying. No attic floor could stand the impact. Panic-stricken, he jumped out of bed. Instantly, there was an uncanny silence. Cautiously, he climbed back into bed, and instantly the thunderous noise started up again. He shot out of bed and scurried into his wife's room, head cold or no head cold,

hugging her tight for warmth and comfort. Been dreaming, she slurred, and was asleep again. Next morning, he went out on the landing. To his horror, it was strewn with books and two chair seats. In one of the other rooms, an old teddy bear had been stuffed headfirst into the waste paper basket. Oh. In the spare room where he had an old teddy bear had been stuffed headfirst into the waste paper basket. Oh.

In the spare room where he had started the night, his son's thesis papers... Bang on about them. His son's thesis papers had been placed on the floor, still in order, and each of the three chairs they had been on was wet. You've not made it to the bathroom, was his wife's sceptic comment. That, as it now

has three asterisks indicating, that's your lot for that story. She then correlates a variety of other encounters in the same area that feature the same noises. So several months later, the previous owners of the house

who were friends of theirs were invited to tea. The husband noticed they'd made alterations and was given a guided tour. As they passed the open door of the spare room, seeing it furnished,

he said with a wry smile, so you've cured the water problem. Which I think the implication here is that he means ghosts not terrible blooming in the house that I just sold you. And I'm going to read two more of the things to do with Market Street, which are a little tenuous. And to indicate capitalisation, I will be shouting.

In 1883, the Crown Hotel in Market Street experienced a piano-playing phantom in a room that contained no piano. The sound of two panic-stricken children plus NOISES IN THE ATTIC OF CLUMPING FEET AND THE MOVING OF GREAT CHESTS! Exclamation mark. Right.

Furthermore, while looking through court documents of 1639 relating to the thefts of five barrels of gunpowder, she discovered the story of a certain William Fox, who said upon his oath that he had been at William Padner's house until about ten of the clock. On departing, he met with Clement Short, a mariner, and went with him to his house. He stayed a while, talking of Newfoundland and sea matters, until about one of the clock. On the way to his lodgings, he heard whispering, rummaging, and a tumbling noise in one of the attics at Brown's Little Lane. Unfortunately, this name does not now exist. Did it lead into Market Street? There were two long barrels, three bigger ones, four smaller ones stored in Paradise Cellars

containing various substances described as soap, mustard seed, and gunpowder. Could the guilty parties of long ago still be trying to move their ill-gotten wares? I mean, that took place in a different street. It didn't even take place in necessarily Market Street. Just a street that could theoretically have led to Market Street. So that was

fairly disappointingly weak. Yes. But I was nervous that it have led to Market Street. So that was fairly disappointingly weak. Yes. But I was nervous that it might be a weak ending. So what I wanted to check was whether she was still with us. Because this was written

in 1995. Yes. She has the prose of a doddery ant engaging and yet rambling. Yeah. And so I thought it's possible that she's

no longer with us. Well, she hopes that when she dies she'll find herself walking in a spirit with Bounty, spirit of her little dog. Can dogs become ghosts, you ask? She specifically deals with this. Oh, good.

I hope Bounty's spirit will be there alongside me. Unlike most other animals, dogs and cats dream, so I'm sure they have souls too. Case closed. Brilliant. But I wanted to check because I didn't want to be disrespectful. I wanted to check whether she was still with us or I thought there might be an obituary if she had passed away. And libel.

Yeah, exactly. And so I Googled her. And if you Google her, the first sort of 10 results are Amazon and Abe.com for Bounty Tale of a Dog. And then one of them is a Daily Mail headline. And the headline is, Pensioner 81 banned from Dorset Beauty Spot. It's about Patricia Wilmette.

Whoa! And I thought, being the Daily Mail, I expected that she would have been banned from Dorset Beauty Spot. It's about Patricia Wilmette. Whoa! And I thought, being the Daily Mail, I expected that she would have been banned from the beauty spot because of political correctness gone mad or because benefit scroungers had built a mosque over the entrance, preventing her entrance and egress, or maybe trapping her in there. That's not it.

When you click on the link, which I have done, I apologise, you get the full headline. Pensioner 81 who visited the same beauty spot for 70 years is banned from ever returning after the landowner accused her of mowing down his son with her car. Oh, yeah. It is political correctness. You can't mow down a landowner's son.

Patricia Wilmaker has visited La Morna Cove every year since 1948. She even moved to the area and wrote a book About the Cornish coast But landowner claims she deliberately knocked down His son Daniel, 36 The best thing about this is she's been banned And it uses Wilnecker style writing, the word banned is capitalised

Pensioner 81, banned from ever returning Unless she tells him she's sorry That's the best thing about it Roy Stephenson said she can come returning unless she tells him she's sorry. That's the best thing about it. Roy Stevenson said she can come back if she tells him she's sorry. She vehemently denies running down Daniel and will not apologise.

Fair enough. There are other ways of getting retribution for those sort of things, I think. Like the law. Like how you're not allowed to run people over. You don't have to just apologise. Also, I think. Like the law. Like how you're not allowed to run people over. You don't have to just apologise. Like, you can...

Also, I think, likewise, other misdemeanours could be punished by banning you from Dorset's beauty spots. So that's actually quite... I tell you what. Oh, no. Oh, no. Really terrible news.

Patricia Wilnecker, 81, pictured with her dog, Shorty. Oh! It looks exactly like Bounty though. Maybe it's just better. Maybe she just replaced it with a better one and run the other one down. That's really sad. So Bounty is already in the spirit realm.

In the spirit realm waiting for well this is 2015 so she might have joined them. Thankfully Daniel survived the encounter which may or may not have happened. Well, yeah, because if he'd have got run over to death, then he could be out there kicking bounty in the afterwards, revenge. So I'm presenting, normally we do a local legend, but I think Patricia Wilnecker herself

qualifies as a local legend. Yeah, there's the legend of whether or not she ran over a man. I mean, that in itself, if that had happened 100 years earlier, you'd be telling me that now as one of your stories. Yes, because of libel. Yeah, so she, I'm not. She didn't. She didn't, as far as we know.

As far as she says. We know that. Allegedly. I'm just going to say the word she says. We know that one. Allegedly. I'm just going to say the word allegedly, and you can edit appropriately. Allegedly. To the scores. Yes.

So now I must ask you for your scores for Ghostly Tales of Wessex slash Patricia M. Wilnecker, brackets, given half a chance, slash I hardly know her. Should I give that a different title? No, I think that's in keeping. I'm surprised you didn't shout it. Oh, that was in catch.

You just were in a different room. So my first category is naming. Okay, Wilnecker. Wilnecker, good. Poole. Endorse it. Endorse it. I've got the chance to say that many times.

Thanks to names. As an author, the names she gives to her stories compelling the vanishing boy. A strange spoon. But some of them are quite dramatic. The many ghosts of Lichert Matravers.

Ooh. That sounds brilliant. The ghostly nun in Bournemouth Gardens. Coincidences? If I were offered the opportunity to read a story

called The Ghost That Scared the Plumber, I would. Exactly. The man who met himself coming back! Exclamation mark. Exactly. The Man Who Met Himself Coming Back, exclamation mark. Oh, that's great. Exclamation mark in the title.

That's really good. That sounds like a Morrissey song. It's even got mysteriousness in its naming format. Freshly Unearthed Ghostly Tales of Wessex. Yeah, we're not sure on what's freshly unearthed. Yeah, I'd give you, I think, a four. What? I think because no one...

What more could I have done? No one in the story has a name. This son, this architect. They're just ciphers. They're real people, Jen. She's protecting their identity. Not like you and me, who have trotted out her dirty laundry

in front of the microphone. She's protecting the architect who lives... Because, I mean, you can probably find the architect who lives on Market Street Pool endorses easily the least you can do

is not put his name or her name it wasn't mine and then there was the road street name thing she just probably couldn't find it it's not that it's not there anymore

do a bit more research Patricia if you even read the book James you would know that she's never out of the court documents room translating historical documents into modern English

I put my money on Wilnex. She's not run someone over in there then so she's still allowed in. She's still allowed in currently. No it's going to be

four. Four. Yeah. Next traditional category supernatural. Oh hi. It's got to be five. It is all about ghosts.

There's literally a ghost everywhere you turn. Or a noise. Yeah or a nightmare. Or someone clearly being asleep. And paint fumes. But I've only read you one of the stories.

And a leak. There's a whole book of supernatural tales there. There's not a whole book. There's an entire pamphlet. Whilst it was supernatural, there wasn't the sort of explanation, the reasoning for these ghosts. That makes it seem more like it was just a man falling asleep in a different room and having a bit of a nightmare. He inhaled some paint fumes,

had a bath, slept in a different room and moved some stuff around, had a nightmare. Very well told. I can very much imagine the sounds of the heavy ironclad boots and the heavy chest,

the corners splintering, the planks? Planks? Floorboards. Sounds like what the attic floor is like. That detail there though, The heavy chest, the corners splintering the planks? Planks? Floorboards. Ceiling boards. Depends what the attic floor is like. That detail there, though, that's what messes her up. Because when she comes to explain it, she definitely describes them as barrels.

No corners on a barrel to splinter the ceiling wood. The thing we know about barrels. You've got me. You've nailed me. They say it happened in an attic. The original events happened in a cellar. Doesn't add up, Patricia. I feel like I'm on the stand and you've cross-examined me.

Well, you've just been Grisham'd. That's my new catchphrase. So you started out saying that it was going to be a high score for Supernatural. I quote, it's all Supernatural. It's got to be high, James Hakeshaft. Yeah. But then I Columbo'd myself. Then you Columbo'd yourself.

Yeah. I mean, there's even the previous owner as well casts his cheeky comment about the, oh, I see you solve the water problem. That is put there as to prop up the idea of Supernatural events, chairs getting wet in the spare room but then again it also it does sound like the brag of someone who's just ripped someone off okay that's not yeah i agree that's not that's not conclusive but james the strange spoon turned up in the coffee in the coffee jar but she was sure it hadn't been in the coffee jar before i've

explained that with your so-called science i can only explain that with five out of five for supernaturals. There's no other explanation for spoons. Are you actually giving me five out of five? No. Because I'll take it

even in sarcasm. Put it in caps if only there was such a thing as caps for numbers. We need capital numbers. Brilliant. So it's five. Yes, it is a five

because it's all about those. Thank you, the strange spoon. We can't get into the game of saying it might be someone just imagining it for every ghost thing. Because it usually is. That way. No podcast likes. The blog factor.

Oh, blog factor, yes. Because I feel like if she were writing now, and bless her, let's hope she is. She's more being written about than writing, unfortunately. Yeah, let's not talk about that, the incident. If she were writing now, some people would hope it were a confession. Or at least an apology to Daniel, 39. She doesn't have a blog, which is a tragedy. Really?

Yeah. Well, she was 81 three years ago. But I feel like the content that she's delivering in pamphlet form almost sort of prefigures the blog. Yeah. And really would sit happily in a blog. You can very much imagine this as a blog with her unable to find a way to change the font. And so just putting things in caps. Yeah. It's in Comic Sans.

The headlines are in Papyrus, maybe. Yeah, there is clip art. So much clip art. There's definitely a dog background. I think there won't even be an animated gif of Bounty. Or a dog-like Bounty. Yeah, not actually Bounty, obviously. All our hyperlinks are dead.

That's our difficult second album. All my hyperlinks are dead. What's your score then for the blog factor? Oh, five, obviously. Stapled pamphlets were the blogs of the 90s for people who couldn't set up a blog in the 90s because it was also a possible thing to do. Think of the speed of dial-up in pool.

That's true. In Dorset. No, I wouldn't. That's true. In Dorset. In 1995. No, I wouldn't. It's terrible. I'm not surprised she hasn't got a blog, though, to be... because if you're good at doing something, you don't do it for free. You put it in a pamphlet and sell it for a quid and an Oxfam. Yeah.

How much did I buy it for, actually? A quid and an Oxfam. A quid and an Oxfam. I thought that was a guess, rather than that you had just read the label off the back of the book. Yeah, I usually suspected you. Yeah, you did. We also undermined the whole premise of the podcast medium. What?

By suggesting that if you're good at something, you wouldn't do it for free. Oh, yeah. I was silent in a moment of sad self-awareness. Oh. Yeah, we could sell this for a quid in oxfam. Just on a cassette. My final category. Ghostly incontinence.

Oh, yes. Because the ghosts in the Market Street hauntings are different to most of the ghosts we've met in that they mainly manifest in the form of a wet chair. So, moistened upholstery is unique to that story. Because they'd moved some books around. They'd moved books around. They'd put a teddy bear head first in a waste paper basket.

Oh, yeah. That put a human face on it for me. I've simultaneously been imagining that being the beloved teddy bear of the sun, who I now remember is writing several theses, probably grown out of the teddy bear. I'm guessing three theses as well. Because there were three chairs that they'd been moved off of in order for these conscientious ghosts to have a wee on.

I wonder what we're to believe the water is, bearing in mind that he did come out of the shower. Yeah, after inhaling paint fumes and feeling dizzy. Or paint stripper, in fact, so even worse than paint fumes. Again, it's not our job to debunk or cast any doubt

whatsoever on the validity of the stories yes but also I think incontinence runs as a theme throughout the book

in the root sense of incontinence meaning lack of control yes so the ghosts they're rearranging books and theses quite neatly

but still chaotically, they're putting a teddy bear upside down in a thing. Then barrels are having their contents transferred to chests and then been moved from the cellar to the attic for no apparent reason. Yeah, in multiple different houses on the same street, potentially. Yeah. So explain that.

Well, that is truly unexplainable because they're all random facts. There is explainable as a series of unconnected things presented in a concise form. Yeah.

I give you one for each chair. What? Three points. I'm getting... Or is there no, it's four points, isn't it? Because there was another chair that had the inside taken out or something.

Hey, I'll tell you what, there were actually two seat cushions on the landing. So if we give me a point for every seat-related bit of a haunting, then that's five. So there's three seats with we on them. All ghostly. And two seat cushions. Yeah, and there's a big pile of feces on them. Or ghost. Ghost we. And two seat cushions. Yeah. And there's a big pile of feces on the floor. Five.

I'm getting five. Yeah, you get five. All right. I'm going to take the lid off next to the mic. That's a good noise. And I'm going to write the five right next to the microphone to celebrate. In all caps. Oh, you could really hear the curl around of the fly

Did you do the hat first then? Yes I did the hat first Oh I do the down and then the round and then I put the little hat on him That is a big five as well I had to do it really big so that Michael Monk could hear it You have been listening to Lawmen. The Lawmen are Alistair Beckett-King and James Shakeshaft.

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