Loremen Podcast - S2 Ep7: Loremen S2 Ep7 - The Witches of Caithness and Costwolds Dogs

Episode Date: January 31, 2019

Witches, Black Dogs, Crabs, Happy Whales and Toads. This pair of compendium stories has it ALL. Also what passes for a piece of Folklore in Banbury and why you should make consistent fashion decisions when dealing with packs of hounds. Find the show notes here: www.loremenpodcast.com/episode-7-s2 @loremenpod www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.loremenpodcast.com/about www.facebook.com/LoremenPod @JamesShakeshaft | @MisterABK Featured image from: A narwhal and large sperm whale. Engraving. Credit: Wellcome Collection. (CC BY 4.0)

Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm Alistair Becker-King, teacher of ancient wisdoms. And I'm James Shakespeare, the substitute teacher of ancient wisdoms. So if you could please sit down, stop stop chewing it's your own time you're wasting double double toil and trouble here comes the story of two scottish witches with quite a line in feline terrorism and whale butter i have a witchy tale from Scotland. Ooh. From an area called Caithness.

So I'm calling my story The Witches of Caithness, and the story takes place in the vicinity of a place called Thurso, and it's a very magical area. In fact, they've got a wizard. I'm barely even going to mention him. I'm going to mention him briefly, and you'll see why the whole story is not about him. But they've got a wizard called Donald DeVale Mackay, also known as Lord Ray.

And he lived in a place called Tongue Hall. Tongue Hall? Tongue. It's spelt like tongue. Tongue Hall. Easiest standard Scottish wizard. He was invited to join the black school of Padua, where the devil teaches his evil ways. And the devil's very reasonable.

The fees are very low at that school. Is it state subsidised? There is a catch, as you've intuited, which is that he will take for his own the last person who leaves the class. Each class? Each class, it seems. How many classes a day? I assume there's just one main class where they just outline the main stuff

and then you're free to sort of, you know, supported open learning. Oh, so it's more like the University of the Devil. Yeah, I think so. It's like a Steiner school. The Devil Polytechnic. Yeah, exactly. McKay, of course, tricks the Devil, naturally. So they're all filing out McKay's last.

And the Devil's sort of coming to him. I'm going to get you. And he says, Devil, take the hindmost, pointing at his shadow. And the devil seizes his shadow and Mackay escapes. But from that day on, never has a shadow. Having no shadow in northern Scotland is not that impressive because many of the days are overcast. There's not that much sun.

It's not that remarkable. What he did have was a team of imps who did his bidding, which is pretty impressive. And he's credited with having raised up a great many of the mountains in the area. Even though this guy lived relatively recently, like more recently than the mountains. One of McKay's projects, and this is the reason why I'm not dwelling too long on him, was

he wanted his imps to build a bridge across Dunnet Bay. Obviously, you're going to need rope for that. What do you think, James, of all the materials in the world? I can already see you rolling your eyes. Oh no. What do you think they James, of all the materials in the world? I can already see you rolling your eyes. Oh, no. What do you think they made the ropes out of? Did they try and make them out of sand?

Of course they tried to make them out of sand, James. Why? It didn't work, did it? Did they not understand the concept of rope? Why must you be so constantly trying and failing to make ropes out of sand? Anyway, so as soon as I was thinking, this guy's great, he's got it all. As soon as I got to the ropes of sand, I thought you're an idiot. Yeah, you're on a beach.

Look for seaweed. But that man once turned into a horse and went to Thurso, which brings me neatly to Thurso. Which brings me neatly to another town near Thurso, which is known as Scrabster. Yeah, that's a nice name. I paused knowing that you would make an appreciative noise for Scrabster. Ooh. Yeah, that's a nice name. Yeah, all right. I paused knowing that you would make an appreciative noise

for Scrabster, which sounds already like a nickname. Yeah, definitely. It's the Scrabster. What's he doing? Scrabbing. He is crazy. Classic Scrabster. So basically it's a witch story that takes place in the 18th century,

which is really late for a witch story, sort of 17th something or other. And because of that, that means that these are real people and it really happened. And what that means is inevitably the story is going to end with an innocent woman being murdered for witchcraft. A clearly innocent woman whose name is Margaret Nin Gilbert. One of the most interesting accounts of this comes from

Eliza Lynn Linton's book Witch Stories from 1861. I'm going to find a little bit of that because she's keen to set the tone. Because the Scottish land of faerie, she makes it absolutely clear, is not the sort of fun faerie land of lots of places. It's very much the domain of the devil and of darkness. The story of Margaret Nin Gilbert is the story of a plague of cats. What's... Nin's not a middle name. I think it means Gilbertson

because sometimes she's recorded as being called Gilbert's son. Oh, right. So I guess it means of Gilbert, perhaps. Used to be in... Or Gilbert daughter. Used to be in Gilbert. Yeah.

Maybe. Maybe. So Eliza Lynn Linton is keen to establish a little witchy goings-on. She mentions that the minister of Redcastle lost his life by witchcraft around this time and Mr McGill's house at Kinross, who was minister there,

was so egregiously troubled by a spirit which nipped the sheets and stuck pins into eggs and meat and clipped away the laps of a gentlewoman's hood and a servant maid's gown tail and flung stones down the chimney which wombled a space on the floor. Were they underground overground stones i mean obviously i looked up the word wombled and it means to sort of weave around so they rolled about which hardly feels worth mentioning

that stones that have rolled down a chimney would then continue to roll about but they wombled a space on the floor and then took flight out of the window that's worth it yes threw a minister's bible into the fire and spoiled the baking and played all sorts of mad pranks to disquiet the family and defy God. Sorry, spoiled the baking? Spoiled the baking. Right, okay. So this is the kind of witches we're up against.

And this is the background in which a man called William Montgomery found himself harassed by a series of tenacious cats. Oh. Yeah. And we all know cats and witches go together like peas and carrots. Yeah. Yeah. They just, yeah.

They go together. They do go together. Yep. Thanks for checking. Yep. And he was on numerous occasions attacked in his house by extremely violent cats. At one time, one of them attacked him and then jumped into a chest that had a hole in it and stuck its head out of the hole pretty sinister oh cheeky as well um and another time

one of them got wrapped up in a plaid blanket by him and he attacked it with a knife and he didn't bleed and on both occasions he believed he'd killed the cat and threw it outside but then the next day the cat was gone a sure sign of witch. So this is what's known apparently as a foregang, which is Scott's word. I think it means like foregoing. So it means it's a sign that something bad is going to happen. So he was on the lookout. Bigger cats. Yeah.

More cats. An increasing surfeit of nighttime cat terror. So he was reporting this to the sheriff and other people saying, something's up. There's a witch in the area. So everybody had their eyes open. And those eyes, the eyes of suspicion, fell upon Margaret Nin Gilbert. So from Memorials by Robert Law, one Margaret Nin Gilbert, in Oust, living about one mile and a half distant from Montgomery's house, was seen by some of her neighbours to drop at her own door one of her legs from the middle. What? some of her neighbours to drop at her own door one of her legs from the middle. What? What?

Yeah, no, I've really struggled to interpret what's meant by that. Margaret was seen to drop at her own door one of her legs from the middle, and being under bad fame before for witchcraft, the leg, black and putrefied, was brought to me, this is the sheriff writing, and immediately thereafter I ordered her to be apprehended and incarcerated. So now I wasn't clear on what was meant by dropped her leg from the middle. I thought, oh, so just like off at the knee, like she was at a doorstep and just the bottom half of the leg fell off. Yeah, or a third leg?

I think it's a third leg because I've read the rest of the story and there's no mention of her having only one leg for the whole rest of the story. So I think it is off from the middle. I think it means from the middle of her body. Right. The idea is that this was one of the cat legs. Right. That checks out.

So during the fight with Montgomery, he'd wounded the hind leg and then one of the legs fell off last. So she turned back into a human except had one cat leg lolling about and then it fell off. But why wouldn't cat legs turn back into arms and legs? It's not at all clear.

Did, like, the lower sort of chassis of a cat emerge from a stomach, and then the top would sort of just shrink and turn into fur and that? I mean, it's quite clear that... I suppose one of the legs would need to become the tail. Well, no, because the front legs of a cat are clearly our arms. Yeah. So if you turned into a cat, all your legs are accounted for. There's no space for additional surplus legs.

So it's very confusing what's meant by that. Eliza Lynn Linton describes it as falling off from the rest of her body, which doesn't really make it clearer at all. No. And she's an interesting writer, Eliza Lynn Linton. She has a stutter. It's a fantastic name. I read a little up on her on a website called Victorian Secrets,

which I think is probably not what most people were attempting to type into the blog, but still, fascinating website. And she was sort of a proto-feminist in a way. She was the first woman who was ever paid a salary as a journalist in Britain. in a way she was the first woman who was ever paid a salary as a journalist in britain and then she got older and became the most vociferous anti-suffragette person in the country oh she absolutely hated the suffragettes and wrote sort of scabrous broadsides against them and was so extreme that the anti-suffrage movement rejected her application so if she were now for being a bit much yeah she's either she'd be like Peter Hitchens, or she'd be like...

She'd have her own YouTube channel full of suffragette fails, wearing a trilby. Triggered much would be her catchphrase. And I've just remembered a really important detail about the cats. Detail about the cats. Five legs. This is how we knew they were suspicious. When they were in the house,

they were seen to be talking amongst themselves. Which I like, because it's suspicious But at the same time it's just them minding their own business Standard cats It's just them going like The night's a fair drawing in eh? Have you had your tea? Have a little wee cat cigarette

So got any fights with any local townsfolk have you? Oh no I tell you what The mice round here aren't as nice as the mice round here aren't as nice as they used to be. And then a Scotsman comes in with a dirk and goes, ah, have at you. Hacking off your hind limbs.

That's going to fall out of which is wee belly later. Apologies to any people who understand what the Scottish accent should sound like. So it's a bit of a sad ending for... No, it's more than a bit of a sad ending. It's an extremely tragic tale of injustice for Margaret Nin Gilbert. She ended up in prison and the usual interrogation and questioning

and the fingering of other people in the town. And she was quite clever, actually, because she pointed the finger at a few people who had died, which is quite good. So she's really won my sympathy there. But she also pointed the finger at a few people who were still alive. She didn't lie. Who were put in prison with her.

Right. And then she mysteriously died in prison. So I think what happened was they weren't pleased. But it's also a tale of repercussion. That's the name for this kind of story, where a witch or a wizard transforms into an animal and then is injured, and then when they turn back, they carry that injury with them.

Yes. Repercussion. So I thought that was quite interesting, because I don't think we've had a story of repercussion before. And this second witch belonging to Caithness is called Belle of Brimms, and she belongs to Brimms Ness and is an old woman. More upbeat witch?

A more upbeat witch. Funny witch? I don't know how funny. More murderous. Oh. She was just generally known for being very witchy. So one of the witchy things she did was she had other witch friends over on Orkney, and she would travel across the Pentland Firth

on the back of a crab. Cool. Pretty witchy. Yeah. Just the one crab? Just a single crab. Cool. Pretty witchy. Yeah. Just the one crab? Just a single crab. It's presumably quite large. Yeah.

Or are you thinking one per foot, like skates? I would have thought, like, yeah, sort of sideways inline skates. Going sideways, of course. Yeah, of course. That's the crab's natural method of transport. That's a very good point, actually, because crabs... It's only just occurred to me that crabs don't swim. So I would have chosen a swimming animal to take me across. I'll tell you who didn't like bella brims and his name is

those crabs as well as rob campbell who was the the main boatman between thurso and tongue which i mentioned earlier oh yeah well i i think i can guess why um and so they fell out and she said rob campbell the next time you go to sea, you're going to die. And so he tried to avoid going to sea for as long as he could, but eventually he had to start up his business again. The next morning. Yeah, because that's how businesses work. You can't just do it because a witch said not to.

So she went to quite great lengths there. She got a big tub, filled it with water, and put a little wooden bowl in the water so that it floated. And then she took either an earthenware pot or something called a bellamine bottle also known as a greybeard bottle because of the appearance of a beard on it which are known to be associated with witches and she filled that bottle up with water with a cork in the end of it and she put the bottle next to a blazing fire and at this moment rob campbell was setting out to sea. Once he was at sea, she opened up the cork in the little bottle a tiny amount and the water was getting so hot in there and steam began

to spurt out. And when steam began to spurt out, the water in the tub began to rock and the little boat started to go on steady. She's doing sympathetic magic, James. I know you're a fan. It got hotter and hotter and the water inside the bottle got hotter and hotter and she opened the cork a little bit more and a bit more steam came out and the bottle began to rock and sway until she pulled the cork out completely and then the water began to boil

and froth and foam and the little bowl was overturned and she turned to one of her witchy accomplices and said, Robbie Campbell is away now. Robbie Campbell is away now. And indeed, his ship had been wreckedoo. Robbie Campbell is away now. And indeed, his ship had been wrecked

on the Isle of Stroma. I did save one highlight for the end, because I thought drowning Robbie Campbell might not be that much of an upbeat ending. Bella O'Brims churned butter from a whale. There you go. That's not butter. People said, where'd you get all that butter from? A whale. That's not butter.

Well, I never. There you go. The Witches of Caithness. There were many and manifold, and that's two of them. That's two of them. Plus half a wizard. Yeah, a little bit of a nearby wizard. So, to the scores, James.

Yes. My first category, as always, is names. Yeah, you really did well in your picking of the story for scoring names. Hold on, don't think I just... Tongue hole? Tongue hole. It just fell in my lap. The Scrabmaster whatever it was. Scrabster. Scrabster. He's called that

because he's really good at Scrabble. Of course Scrabster would win you nothing in Scrabble because it's a proper noun. And he is a proper noun that guy. Oh, Scrabster. It's got everything.rabble because it's a proper noun. And he is a proper noun, that guy. It's got everything. Yeah. I'm not even going to bother listing them. Nin Gilbert.

Nin Gilbert. Lin Lindsey. That just chucking in random extra. Ford Gang. Repercussion. I mean, admittedly, I'm just saying words that are written down on a piece of paper. Repercussion is just a word. It's a lovely word. It is a lovely word. The Black School of Padua. Gustavus Adolphus. He wasn't even in the story.

Gustavus Adolphus was a good name. He's just in the thank yous. Special thanks to. He didn't even... He wasn't even involved. Ah, yeah. There's loads. We've got Donald Duval McKay.

And Duval, I suspect the duv of that is black, like Black Donald. Do you remember Donald Do from one of our previous stories? Yep. Lord Ray. Or as I like to call him, Lord Ray. It's very laddy, a laddy area, considering it's got so many witches. Bella Brim's, Brim's Nest. Yeah. And a Bella Mine Bottle.

A Bella Mine Bottle. I obviously have to give you five, but just a little warning for picking stories just because they got great names it's not gone unnoticed has my strategy been i mean it's the work the glee in your eyes when you said each name and like nodded scrubster tongue hole yeah i can't believe you've seen through my stratagem which is quite a good word. That doesn't count. All right, so it's a stern five. It's a five with a little look.

All right, I'm going to do a story with no good names in it next. Welcome to my world. It's not my fault everything in the South is rubbish. Apart from Cornwall. Apart from Cornwall. Which has all the Zs. Or everyone's called John Zongle Ziddeldang. Yeah.

All right, second category. Supernatural. Yeah, pretty spooky. Is it? Yeah, because, I mean, apart from, I think the first witch, it's more like a, I mean, the right phrase would be witch hunt. Yeah. I mean, you could put that down to two cats being murdered

and someone lying. And someone, and I think also probably some kids just like like dropping stones down the chimney sticking pins in the food like someone's just playing a bunch of pranks yeah it gets out of hand there are repercussions in all sorts like in all sorts of ways not just having a diseased cat's leg fall out of your middle there's repercussions in the pranks that are played there's repercussions in that woman who gets called a witch she then grasses up some other witches yeah it's like a chain letter isn't it it's like a pyramid scheme we think they killed her right so there are repercussions there as well they're not very supernatural repercussions they see it seems like just what happens if you're

really naughty yeah but it's um surfing on crabs there is milking a whale yeah that's bad explain that i don't want to i think biologists maybe do and yeah i don't want to i don't want to get into that but even then it's not a one-woman job, whatever you're thinking. It's still impressive, isn't it? Yes. Whatever you think actually happened. Yes. The whole brilliant scheme laid against Rob Campbell with the big tub.

Yeah, it's like she used an amp, sort of amplified her magic using a tub as a loudspeaker thing. I don't really know how electronics work. No, that's basically it. She did it in the bottle, which went to the tub, which ended up in the sea and presumably really messed someone up on a lock in the middle, halfway between or something. Presumably, yes.

I don't know how this magic works. What nobody does, it's in the nature of magic. Yeah, she doesn't say she's said anything. It just seems like, is that what happens every time I boil a kettle? Yeah, it's a chaos theory, isn't it? Someone flaps their butterfly. Someone flaps their butterfly. Someone flaps their butterfly. Someone flaps a butterfly.

Yeah, that's the way it happens. It's raining men. Yeah, so I think Supernatural is going to be a four because the first witch was clearly not a witch. Yeah, you're right. But four for surfing on crabs, definitely. I accept that. I should have just said,

I should have just come out here and said, a woman surfed on crabs and then just folded my arms and waited for the points to roll in. Listed a bunch of great names. That's basically what I did. Next category. And I've got to say this the right way

so you understand what I'm saying. The next category is women. I hear you, brother. Yeah. Or in the voice of one of those Scottish cats, women. Yes, there are definitely women in this story. There are women in the story. But also we're dealing with an undercurrent of almost sexism.

There's almost a sexist dimension to the persecution and murdering of middle-aged women for being a bit weird, is what I'm saying. Yeah. And we've got Eliza Lynn Linton. Yeah. Definitely a woman. She's, yeah. Tipping her her trilby raising her eyebrow quizzically doubling down on facts and reason yeah she's a real bad woman lynn linton she's very interesting her friend her stuff was a lot of her stuff was published after she died and her one of her friends was sort of saying it's a shame she didn't get a

chance to re-edit it to take out all the bits where she was horrible because she was much nicer in real life. So I think she was probably just a sort of Julie Birchill Rod Liddle character just being a professional. I don't know if that's a good idea though to be a professional or otherwise.

Well it's very hard to make the jump from amateur to pro. Are we going to have to bleep well it's gonna be a lot of bleeping it's gonna sound like we're saying something worse than we are as well we're not we're using one of the orifices that both people have i don't think i don't think you can explain what's behind the bleep behind the bleep we could do release in a separate podcast just release the bits that have been bleeped but they're all mild it's all things like drat yeah we're just being over cautious about our bumholes probably gonna bleep that one and that was like one of the most mildest ones i think we can i'm gonna i hey i think we're leaving

bumhole in i think we can do it would we if we were to bleep it would we just bleep the bum or just the hole is it the hole that makes it rude or is it the bum? I think bleep hole is worse than bum bleep. B-hole is... So, it's for women. So, what I was saying about women is they're in the story. I think it's... They've had a hell of a time.

It's a four. And I think Lynne Lindsay has prevented there from being more women. With her anti-suffrage stance. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, four. Oh, well, thanks again, Eliza Lynne Linton. You're being sarcastic, right? Yeah, yeah, not really thankful.

Good. And my final category is innocent victims. Oh, yes. Yes, definitely. Still quite a lot. We've got the crabs, brutally pressed into service. The poor crabs. A whale.

The innocent victims of the pins in the meat. Margaret and Gilbert, innocent victim, obviously. The people she accused, also innocent victims. Innocent victims. Donald Duval McKay's shadow. Yeah. Another innocent victim. Yeah, it wasn't even...

Bobby, what's his name? The last guy, the boatsman. Bobby Campbell. Bobby Campbell, innocent victim. He's it wasn't even... Bobby... What's his name? The last guy, the boatsman? Bobby Campbell. Bobby Campbell, innocent victim. He's just trying to run his business. Just trying to run a small business. Yeah. In difficult circumstances.

Yeah. Actually. Yes. So I think five out of five are innocent victims. I think there's five there. Oh, easily. Yeah. Bobby Campbell, he was just trying to keep his business afloat.

The absolute glee on your face. It's a shame this is an audio medium, because that's priceless. And now, some tales of Cotswold dogging. Not like that. Funnily enough, my tale, too, includes witches, witchcraft. These are three animal tales from the Cotswolds. A triptych of animal tales? Yes.

Right, okay, first, this takes place in Bambury. Do you know Bambury at all? As in Bambury Cross? Yes. Ride a cock horse? Cock horse. Is that the phrase? Cock horse?

Yeah. That's what's in my head, but when I'm saying it, it sounds wrong. Are we allowed to say that? As long as you say the two words in that order, yes. Okay. Absolutely no bleeping needed there. Yeah. Banbury is very much the Croydon of the Cotswolds.

Wow. It's not that nice. There's some nice bits, but it's a bit rough. I don't think the people of Banbury would mind me saying that. I hope the people of Banbury don't mind me saying that. You wouldn't keep those bells on your fingers and rings on your toes for very long. No. I said that the wrong way around, didn't I? She didn't have bells on her fingers.

She's got rings on her fingers, sure, and bells on her toes. It's weird. Do we have to bleep it if that's in that order? So it's a bit rough? It's a bit rough. This bit of local folklore, which is from my absolute favourite folklore book, Folklore Mysteries of the Cotswolds by Mark Turner. This is an account of an exceptionally loyal sheepdog.

You know the type of story. You've got Hachiko in Japan. You've got Greyfriars Bobby in Scotland. Hey, Bobby. I don't know who you're Bobby. I think Bobby means Willie. Does it? I think it might mean Willie.

Wow. You would want a loyal one though yes but okay so this loyal sheepdog from bambury it was it was noted it had been noted during its life that it was unusually intelligent uh it could follow complex commands it and its master were inseparable until the man died and then maybe they weren't so inseparable so on the day of the funeral, they locked it away with some of the master's clothes. And after the funeral, they released the dog. The dog instantly ran to the grave, started digging it up.

The grave diggers, fortunately, were still there. They pulled the dog out, filled it back in. As soon as the dog got free, really quickly digging down, digging down, digging down. Grave diggers didn't know what to do. So they thought know what we'll do we'll put some earth in the dog will get out the dog will realize what's going on they started doing that they got carried away the dog didn't come out oh so sorry while the dog was in the hole they tried tossing earth in onto the dog yeah right innocently burying a dog alive to teach it a lesson well i think they thought that it would

sort of realize what's going on and get out, but it didn't. And according to the legend, it remains there still. Well, I believe it remains there still because it's been buried alive. It's not really legendary, is it? It's just according to the laws of physics. It remains there. Its remains are there still. Your stories are full of things that aren't spooky

being presented as if they're spooky, like the photographs didn't come out or the dead dog didn't move. The dead dog's still dead. Yes, and that's what passes as folklore in Banbury. Wow. We buried a dog alive once. I mean, I wasn't planning to go to Banbury and I'm not now. That was tale one.

Unsaddle my cock horse. That was the light-hearted tale one. I didn't think it would ever stand up on its own, but I've just found that really funny, that that's what passes for folklore. I feel like two men buried a dog and then made up a story to explain why burying a dog was for the dog's own good. It was the dog's fault, actually.

It was quite annoying to us, gravediggers. Yeah, they dig up bones. They are very much the antithesis of the gravedigger. Natural enemy of a gravedigger. Two sides of the same coin, though. Locked in an eternal battle. I was going to say Manichean, but then I realised I've only ever read the word and never heard it before, so don't want to embarrass myself.

No, better bleep it. Just pretend you swore. Now, the next tale. This is the meat of our Cotswold Animal Sandwich. Cotswold Animal Sandwich. They were a band, I think. One of those folk bands that does a folk song for four minutes and then seven more minutes of rocking

out. Couldn't skip because it was an LP. So this comes from Lower Quinton, which is at the top tip of the Cotswold Hills, as in north, not the top of a hill. So the northernmost bit is Lower Quinton and then there's a place called Mion Hill, which I think I didn't pick this just because of the name,

but I think you'll find Mion Hill. It's a very funny name for a hill because there would have been all sorts of confusion. Where are you? Mion Hill. Yeah, okay, but what hill? Mion Hill. Have you hit your head?

So yeah, this is Mion Hill in Lower Quinton. It was believed the hill was created by the devil because he saw the abbey being built in evesham and he's so angry kicked a load of earth uh towards it and st ek gwynn e-c-g-w-i-n saw it coming and he and all the monks prayed and the earth fell short creating me on hill if you sort of imagine a kind of a a dark ages really rubbish x-man ripoff that is what i think happened the devil kicks some earth the monks prayed in a sort of like a force field yes a lot of that it'd be like when the rays meet like the force of god yeah against the force of

the force of mud kicking versus The force of mud versus prayer. To be honest... Natural enemy, mud and prayer. Yeah, exact two sides of the same coin. Mion Hill is notable. There's all sorts of artefacts going back to Neolithic times. I think there was an Iron Age fort there. And apparently a farm labourer found a pot o' gold up there, but that's unverified.

There's a ghostly huntsman and pack of hounds chase a ghostly fox on christmas eve and new year's eve um this book was up there getting time and a half well this book was published before the fox hunting ban right so it's not just some people fox hunting and saying it's ghost so they can get away with being evil uh now to the black dog though there's a black dog of me on Hill. Now, in 1885, a 14-year-old plough lad called Charles Walton, 14-year-old, and he had a job. Do you think they were just more motivated in the past?

It's what you're saying kids today, eh? Yeah. And, yeah, so this 14-year-old saw the black dog nine nights in a row. And on the last night, he also saw a headless lady in a silk dress. Oh, what a week. And the next day he heard his sister had died. Oh, poor guy. So he didn't get any better.

In fact, he got worse. And then in 1945, 60 years later. 60? Yeah, 60 years later. Just doing some maths there. 60 years later, the now 74-year-old Charles Walton met his brutal end on that very hill. Now, Charles Walton, in the interim,

had grown up to be quite the oddball. He was a bit of a recluse. People were a bit scared of him. He could feed birds with his hands. He could feed birds from his hands. Sorry. That's pretty much standard practice. Not just producing seeds.

Yeah. He'd feed wild birds in his hands. Wild dogs could be calmed by his voice. And he had what was considered to be a sinister trick. I think it is. It's really weird, which makes it sinister. He'd catch a toad and attach a small toy plow to it and then just release it and he'd keep doing it and then let it go yeah with one where's he getting small toy this many

small toy plows from that that's his thing also how's he catching toads i don't think i've ever knowingly verifiedly seen a toad. I've seen a few frogs, some ugly frogs. I've picked up a frog, but that's it. Never caught a toad. That's my limit. But even, the other thing that's weird about it is, plough sheds are designed to be pulled by a walking animal,

not a famously jumping animal. So a plough on a toad, it's just going to be plough gap, plough gap, plough gap, plough gap. It's just not going to work. That is inefficient. What an oddball. Yeah, sinister. Because you were saying everyone thought he was sinister, and then you listed two perfectly nice things,

like he was the bag lady from Home Alone 2. Well, she was considered sinister at first, though, wasn't she? Yeah, but you can see it in her eyes. She's a goodie. Whereas Donald Trump, same film, in her eyes she's a goodie whereas donald trump same film in his eyes nah baddie constantly putting little plows on frogs speaking speaking of of notable oddballs um it reminded me when i was there was this guy when i was in the town i grew up in there was this like within a cotswold town behind an actual a cotswold cottage so imagine that the yellowy

stone the cotswold stone walls there's like a miniature scrapyard just like in the middle of town we pass it on the way to school and it's run by a guy called tommy aldridge who i must have talked about before on this he was pretty old when we were kids um he has died now and he was a sort of like looked like archetypal yokel-y type bloke like trousers held up with a piece of string like a woolly hat that's got a hole in it kind of thing like Greengrass from Heartbeat Greengrass

but a more rotund Greengrass and he'd eat a loaf of bread by pulling the end off and tucking it under his arm and just pulling the white out the middle out the middle of the loaf of bread. Until he was got like a crusty glove. An inefficient boxing glove, yeah.

And his catchphrase was, Warham, innit? And that's just what he'd say, Warham, innit? And a mate of mine remembers he came round to pick up some scrap metal from his house. His dad was dealing with it, obviously, because we were kids, and he opened the door and Tommy Aldridge was there and Tommy said,

Warren Bennett, as a greeting, and my mate just cracked up laughing because Tommy's doing his catchphrase. And then Tommy looked at my mate's dad and went, what's the matter with him? Got tickles? Got tickles? That's so lovely.

Anyway, this guy charles walton he also kept a piece of dark glass or a witch's mirror in the back of his watch um and people paid him money to do little spells little charms and whatnot he's a witch in like the in like 1930s and 40s? Yeah. Wow. And then on Valentine's Day, 1945, he was found dead, brutally murdered, on Mion Hill. We did actually mention this crime in the Longcompton episode. It's similar. It's pretty horrible.

Pitchfork through the neck. The classic Cotswold pitchfork. And a cross cut into the throat or chest, which is supposed to, with a witch, that's supposed to kill all their spells, basically. If they've got any charms or spells, that's how you stop them. Right. And no one was convicted for it, ultimately.

The actual police came in because it was 1945. The real police? They almost never appear in our stories of obvious criminality. And the superintendent, Robert Fabian, who? Fabian of the Yard? Yes. From the TV show from 1956 to 1958, Fabian of the Yard. I'm not sure about the dates on that.

I've said it very definitely. Basically, there was a TV show called Fabian of the Yard based on this guy's memoirs. And this is the actual superintendent, Robert Fabian. The actual Fabian? The very same. Came to investigate he was walking over me on hill and a black dog rushed past him and then a young boy came by and he said

if the boy was looking for the black dog the kid's face dropped looked terrified and he ran away and once people heard that this black dog had been sighted they clammed up they didn't help the police investigation at all they totally tight-lipped everyone shut down like when the policeman walked into the pub people would just walk out they're just very wickerman yeah wickerman wickerman the wickerman yeah the implication there is that people in town knew more than they were telling there was disbelief in witchcraft because you know people were paying this guy to do spells and stuff, so they believed it.

And they think that later on, people have sort of looked into it and they think it may have been because something to do with the old style calendar change. Because in 1752, I think they changed, I can't remember the exact date annoyingly, but when they changed the calendars over, it basically moved by 12 days.

So it meant that 14th of February was actually the actually the 2nd of february which is candle mass which is a major witchcraft date now don't worry i looked up what candle mass is is a christian celebration or remembrance of the presentation of jesus at the temple oh yeah i'm presuming amazing big one yeah wasn't it? Big time. He was really nervous beforehand. His clicker didn't work. And no, apparently it's somewhere... It's weird.

It's weird. It's to do with a thing where the mother is to make a sacrifice 33 days after her son's circumcision of one lamb or two doves. And that's what Candlemass is. That's Candlemass. I think Candlemass has got too commercial these days. It used to be about your son's circumcision. I know.

And killing two doves. Candlemass merchandise is in the shops earlier and earlier every year. It literally got earlier because of the changing of the calendar. And that's the horrible second animal-based tale, and the main one. Oh, wait, so have we got... Just a little sort of... Have I got a third in the Cotswold Animal Sandwich?

Yeah, just a little sort of palate cleanser. Someone on tambourine? This is from the famous town of Broadway. Are you claiming that all the plays, the Broadway musicals happen there? Is that what you're claiming? That's where they originally come from. Oh, right, yeah.

I once angered a taxi driver, actually. I got the last train from London to a town, which was 10 miles away from the town that I actually needed to go to, but there's no public transport. And I just figured, oh, I'll be fine. I'll get there and I'll ring up a taxi on a Sunday night and they will come and get me because I've been in London. Yes.

And then I did that and i got there and i rang up and a guy said he wouldn't come pick me up and i said why not and he said i'm doing a drop-off in broadway and i went in america he hung up i'd walk 10 miles in the dark he was terrifying terrifying it was like a moonless night as well. Ghost dogs running either side of you. Oh, left, right and centre. So, yes, from Broadway, this is the ghost kennel man. So some rich guy heard his hounds baying in the night and he sent his kennel men out to shut them up.

The kennel men went out there in just his night shirt. The hounds didn't recognise him, tore him to pieces. And his ghost is menahorted in his nightshirt to this day. I really like the way you closed the book there. That's it. Man eaten by dogs. There you go.

There's your three. I feel like I'm ready to give five out of five already. I haven't even heard the scores. Yeah, okay. To the scores then. What's your first category? Okay, get out of the way. Naming. Naming.

Naming. Me on Hill. Me on Hill. It's a name that sounds like it's not a name. Okay, that's good. St. Equin. St. Equin, actually, that's an excellent name. That's how you say it.

Yeah. Fabian of the Yard. Fabian of the Yard. Fabian of the Yard. Am I remembering it? Fabian. F-A-B-I don't know. Fabian of the Yard. Fabian of the Yard. Or Fabian of the Yard. Am I remembering it? Fabian. F-A... I don't know.

Fabian, probably. Candlemass. And Charles Walton. I'm leaning towards a three. Yeah. Which I think is fine. I don't want to disparage the names. I like Equin a lot.

Yeah. But it just wasn't... It wasn't replete with names. No. Could have had a few more. I didn't pick the story solely based on what the names were like equin a lot yeah but it just wasn't it wasn't replete with names no i've had a few more i didn't pick the story solely based on what the names were like this is like what happens with new labor in schools you know you put the tests in as a way of rating the schools but in the end they're just working towards the tests exactly yeah that's what i'm doing yeah next test supernatural supernatural well there's nothing actually supernatural about just killing a dog.

Burying a dog alive. Yep. That's not expressly supernatural. But it's there to this day. There's nothing particularly supernatural either about killing a man with a pitchfork, even if it was because he was a witch, nor indeed putting a ploughowshare onto a frog or multiple it's strange but is it supernatural it's weird maybe with a y but nine ghost dogs a ghostly

woman yeah supernatural headless yeah ghost kennelman ghost kennelman yeah who was who was a ghost yeah so just weirdness of the village all shutting up, that's a bit spooky. Yeah. A bit scary. Yeah, it's not spooky, though. No. What I think is a little bit spooky is you've cleverly arranged the story

in such a way that there's sort of a nice symmetry to it, you know? So, you know, that's life. Sometimes man kills dog. Sometimes dog kills man. Sometimes man sees dog and is murdered. By another man. By another man. Probably not a dog.

But the three main outcomes of human-dog interaction are captured within the stories. To kill that dog, be killed by that dog, or simply see that dog. To be fair, you're right, you've got it covered. We've all either been killed by killed or seen a dog yes it's human experience yeah so it's three out of five for supernatural brilliant for each of the states of dog the close encounters of dog kind okay menagerie menagerie menagerie the the crazy cotswold world of animals it It's got everything. It's got dogs. It's got toads.

It's got several more dogs. Yeah. What else has it got? A ghostly fox. A fox? Which is a bit like a dog. It's in the sort of Canis family. And some actual dogs.

Sorry, some actual dogs. Actual dogs, ghost dogs. Oh, so you're counting actual dogs and ghost dogs as separate? They're two separate kind of dog. Intelligent dog. Sorry, dog sorry what oh a bird the guy could feed a bird he could feel he could feed birds yep okay you got some birds there and i also shouted at dogs uh the toad do we say the toad yes you've counted the toad multiple toads yeah there. There's your animals. That's your... So if you put Shake Shaft's menagerie, if you put all these into the back of the cart

and rode it round the Cotswolds... Yep, people would come. Yep. And then they'd see that black dog and they'd run away. The problem is I've underestimated the simple-minded credulity of the people of the Cotswolds. I think you're absolutely right. They'd love it.

It's a wonderful day out for everyone. It's like Trago Mills. Where's the peacocks there's a leaflet in the in the services there's a whole counter in the tourist information come see this guy's dogs all right it's it's four out of five very cheekily it's a very cheeky four out of five for menagerie You won't believe what he did to this toad. Final category, box set. How is it a box? You've got three stories, so that's like a box set.

Yeah. For one. The three sides of a box. Yeah. Outside, inside, and the left side of the box. Very persuasive. Yeah. And you've got the box.

of the box very persuasive yeah um and you got the box like you follow the story of the kid from his 14 year old self seeing that dog on the hill all the way to him as a 60 74 year old weirdo getting murdered on that hill and then there's the investigation the whole investigation fabian comes in yeah with his maverick techniques. Sort of seeing a dog. Yeah, but he gets results, doesn't he, James? No, not at all. Everyone ignores him. Everyone starts ignoring him after he says, oh, he's so a dog. But it's, yeah, there's a bit

of a Twin Peaks-y kind of the killing vibe to it. You're going to want to binge watch these dogs. Sorry, I'm still thinking about my slogans for my menagerie. They still don't talk about it to this day. Well, to this 2014, I read an article. Until this very day, 2014.

I read an archived article on the BBC where they'd gone and no one would talk about it. Really? Because, no spoilers, just like a box set. Yes, thanks for that extra point there. I actually felt it tick over from a three to a four there. Oh, okay. That seems low.

What else have you got in the behind the scenes in series five of your box set plan? Just all them toads. Just a lot of toads? Yeah, we follow one of the toads. The next series is all about the toads. It's like The Wire season two. They misjudged what everyone wanted to actually get out of the story. Don't worry, we're going to

go back to the weirdo in series three. And also all the dogs. I liked in The Wire when they put that little plough on Stringer Bell. Oh no, Prop Joe. He'd be the one you'd put a plough on. Yeah, bouncing around. OK, I'll take a four.

So I think it's four out of five. Yeah, fair enough. It's probably about how many series we get commissioned for before they pull the plug. You've been listening to Lawmen, the lawmen of James Shakespeare and Alastair Beckett King. Please subscribe, rate, review and recommend to a friend. You can tweet us at LawmenPod

or email us at contact at lawmenpodcast.com to suggest stories from your area. I should say that a few people got in contact from the last series and suggested stories, which was lovely, but they were almost all of them about child murders and so we're probably not going to do them because I don't want the podcast to be a mainly child death themed podcast. It is very difficult to be funny about infanticide.

Yeah, it's a slippery slope though, isn't it? You get one child ghost, people want more. I do have one lined up called the child ghost. Have we got another? Colon, people want more i do have one lined up called the child ghost have we got another have we got colon people want more thanks for your suggestions though guys yeah no we really appreciate the suggestions but grown-up murders please