Loremen Podcast - S2 Ep9: Loremen S2 Ep9 - Jenny Collier - Santes Dwynwen and Gelert

Episode Date: February 14, 2019

Jenny Collier joins the Loremen in a Valentine’s Day Special: tales of star-crossed lovers from Wales. Also featuring the world’s biggest lovespoon. Content Warning: This episode isn’t very rude, but some of the subject matter is more adult than our usual family-friendly fare of ghosts, devils and murderers. @loremenpod www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod @JamesShakeshaft | @MisterABK  | @jenjencollier

Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm James Shakeshaft, a man for all seasons. And I'm Alistair Beckett-King, a man for two seasons. Spring and summer are not for the gingers. And now we've a few tales from Wales. Today we've got another deputy law person aboard the... Is it a ship, James? It's a studio, isn't it? You don't say on board, just in.

I thought we were... I was always visualising a sheriff's place, because it's like lawmen. Or like a ranch. Yeah. But just imagine saloon doors swinging open. Oh, there's a new law person in town. And who is that?

It's Jenny Collier. Hello, Jenny. Hello. Welcome. Thanks for having me. So, Jenny. Hello. Welcome. Thanks for having me. So, Jenny, do you have a story for us? Oh, I should say, you are technically Welsh. I'm definitely Welsh. That's what I said. Definitely Welsh. Yes. Well, it's just that you don't necessarily, in an audio medium, because obviously you look exceedingly Welsh, but in sound, you don't necessarily sound terribly Welsh.

Is that fair? Sure. I mean, if you were to see my face right now, the windburn makes me look like an English public schoolboy. But I am a Welsh woman. You are, yes. And I think you have brought a Welsh folktale for us. I have, yeah.

Or an English public school folktale, I guess. Told through the medium of an English public school boy face. Great. Yeah, well, if you could muster your school boy face. And I'll do the Welsh accent for the Welsh names. Oh, lovely. Can we all join in? Okay.

I love doing Welsh accents. I might have to get my notebook out for one of them because i can't remember how you say it have you got one of those one of those when you go to a stationary shop and buy a new book thinking new book new me i know i have this was a gift from my mum i think she's telling me to get some new material mums are the harshest critics so is your mum welsh uh-huh yeah she's really welsh as in she's got the accent and everything. Wow, the whole package. Face of a schoolboy?

No. Oh, that's a disappointment. Sorry to disappoint. Does she speak Welsh? She doesn't know. Do you speak Welsh? Poorly, but yes. Is that a Welsh word?

Poorly. Ver kamerag ansporeal, which means my Welsh is litter. I can't say, I don't know what the word for rubbish is. I've only been to Wales once and you were there and I said, oh, they take the language a bit seriously. And you gave me a look as if to say, stop saying things like that in Wales. If you want to make it out alive, you've got to respect the lingo. Yeah, they do take it seriously. Now, I'm in London, I can safely say, wow, do take it now i mean in london i can safely

say wow they take it seriously there was on the menus and everything like in a cafe really yeah it's like you know what tea it's stop pretending you don't know the english word for tea tear come on what's the worst word for video video do you want to know what buffet is yeah oh that's nice to think we've been wasting time with the a all of these we could have started our buffets seconds faster by just calling them buffs so the welsh are geniuses genius is that the welsh word for genius don't know is the word for football pal throid oh is it oh no I've got confused with the Welsh football TV show

Scordio yeah sorry I was drinking some water there and you nearly killed me Scordio Scordio

Scordio yeah is the name of a it's the football highlight show come on Wales S4C or whatever that's correct

and if you want to know what the chariot racing show is called which there is yes it's called Rashes know what the chariot racing show is called, which there is, it's called Rashes. Rashes. For chariot races.

Rashes. What does, like chariot races, like Ben Hur horses and carts? Yeah, yeah. Is it horses? Yeah, like donkeys. Sure, I like donkeys. Donkeys. Now, I don't want to be mean, is Wales a real country?

Because nothing I'm hearing is convincing me so far that it is. Well, yeah. Donkey chariot racing on televised. It's all pretty rustic and people in those chariots can i just yeah okay cool it's not like horses pulling chariots with donkeys in them no i think i think it's all i said donkeys but i think it might be horses and it's a chariot with a person in whipping the horses running around in the chariot race a la ben-hur wow i talked about it in jen her which was edinburgh show which was the name of your show a couple years ago so should i tell you my story yes please okay is it all right if it's like almost two stories

i thought the story i was gonna tell was something and then i googled it and found out that they're two separate stories well we often do that to cheat so yes. So it is cheating but it's also tolerated. Okay cool thanks. So here it is. It's well the story that I'm going to tell is the Welsh version of it's like the Welsh alternative for St Valentine's because I don't know when this is going to go out but it's nearly Valentine's Day isn't it and we've just had Welsh Valentine valentine's day which is january the 24th sorry welsh has its own valentine's day yeah because of how much time they've saved by not saying buffet in fall they're actually several days ahead by now yeah that's incredible is it called valentine's i mean that's actually racist. Come on.

Cindy V let us do Indian accents in the Indian one. I think we've got her on record as saying that we aren't racist. Yep. Okay. So it's called, it's not called Valentine's Day. It's called Santa's Dwinwen, which means St. Dwinwen Day. Dwinwen was the most beautiful daughter of Brachan Brachaniog,

who was a king who had over 50 children. That's a lot. She's up against a few, I guess. Exactly. She must have been smoking. And now she fell in love. Oh, it was in the 5th century, so quite a while ago.

She fell in love with a man called Maelon Daffodril true true name dafodril dafodril that sounds a lot like dafodril except because it's all like word of mouth that the story's been retold and stuff and a lot of it was in welsh and people didn't translate it correctly and things like that we don't know if they're called dafodril or dafodril which sounds pretty welsh doesn't it and it does sound a lot like daffodil the national plant i don't know if it's named after him mabes anyway she fell in love with him he was in love with her they did want to get together but then one day he either and i don't know if this tone is a bit it is a dark tale he either did rape her or

tried to or her dad just said no you can't get married so we don't know which of those I mean I prefer that version of it that's the one that they tell the children the last one's my favourite yeah me too

me too of those options of those options the last one is the most family friendly and enchanting because it's like, oh, they're not allowed to marry. That's a shame. Because he'd already, Broughan Brougheniog

had already promised her to somebody else because in the 5th century you could just give a woman to a person as a thing. Simpler times. That's when you got 50. Actually, the admin of that, I've said simple, they're probably very complex. Absolute nightmare. Let them pick their own.

Exactly. Otherwise, you'll have a spreadsheet. Exactly. You'll be cross-referencing. It's going to be difficult. Yeah. So in order for her to get over this nightmare... Oh, by the way, her name means one with a blessed life

and i don't think so it doesn't sound that blessed to me um even with the third and happiest uh reason for not marrying malon da fodril so they don't get together and she's like oh no um and runs into the woods crying and whatnot and then she she prays to God or like the Welsh gods. I don't know. You've got your own god in Wales. I don't know. I don't know. It's called God.

It might just be the normal, the like standard God. He's got a donkey there with him. Yeah. God is pronounced. And then she goes into the woods and she's like, oh, my God. And she is like, what am I going to do about not marrying the one I want to marry? And the fact that maybe something that he might have done is not a bad thing. And then an angel comes and is like, right, I'm going to sort this out for you.

And she gives to Dwinwen some sweet potion, which has two effects. First one freezes Malon in a block of ice. And then the other thing that it does is it means that she falls asleep so it's like multi-purpose potion she wakes up and then the angel's like right what now I'll grant you three wishes like some kind of genie but it's an angel oh before she fell asleep she's like I never want to remember Malon ever again and so the angel's like, hmm, we'll see. And then one of the three wishes she wishes for is to free Malon. So she obviously didn't forget him because she remembers he's in the ice block. And then the angel's like, OK, so she frees Malon.

The other wishes she wants are for God to smile upon all lovers. And the third one is for her to never get married. Wow. So it was like a bit sort of a roller coaster. Yeah, what a changeable list that is. I know. Also, that was one of the shortest ice blockings in any story. He's in an ice block.

She has a nap straight out the block first thing. That's worse than David Blaine's attempt, I think. And the fact that in between him being frozen and being thawed, there was meant to be a spell of her forgetting all about him. What happened to that wish? I wonder. We don't know. So then she's like, right, I'm never going to get married. I'm going to be a nun now. And so she goes and be a nun on the Isle of Anglesey.

And her nunnery can be seen to this day, still like a ruin there on the isle of Llandwyn but it's one of those islands where you can only have to run on and run off because the tide means it's sometimes an island sometimes not and they've got a well on the island which has got a magical fish in it now you go there with your partner and then you watch the magic fish and if it does certain movements and stuff it can predict how well your relationship will progress and then there's another wishing well really nearby and that if the water boils when you go there with your beloved then it means it's gonna be good

i mean i think the tourist board should install some kind of like air pipe that goes like a little jacuzzi yeah yeah you can pay a little extra so that's um santis win when um and so she's the patron saint of lovers but she's also the patron saint of farm animals now whales everyone has two jobs i understand it's like why have you put the two of them together naughty wales um oh i hadn't even yeah hadn't even sensed the subtext you're going for that the fifth century was the origin of that stereotype yeah but i got confused so i thought that the story of santas twinwen was this story which is only a short one um which we got taught as school kids in Wales at primary school age, so like seven, the story of Rhys a Meynir, which means Rhys and Meynir.

Ah, it's and. Yeah, but that was the least confusing part of it. Are these people? Oh, yeah. Oh, right. Okay. Right, right, right. Rhys a Meynir.

Okay. So they are a boy and a girl who play as little children. Which one's which? Rhys is the boy. Okay. Is that like Rhys a Meynir. Okay. So they are a boy and a girl who play as little children. Which one's which? Rhys is the boy. Okay. Is that like Rhys? Yeah, it's spelt exactly like Rhys. But as promised, I'm doing the Welsh accent.

No, you've done it beautifully. It's just, I don't know if we're going to be able to say any of the names back to you at any point afterwards. Okay, I will enjoy you trying. It's like a more efficient Chris. That's how I remember Rhys. It's like Buffo to Buff, Chris to Rhys. Buffo to Buff? Buffo to Buff.

Oh, right. Sorry. Funk to Funky. We've been confused by Welsh enough. Sorry, yeah. And the woman's called Mene. Meneer. Meneer.

So as children, they play together and they're like best friends. They never spend a minute apart and they love to play under this old oak tree. And then they get a bit older to the age where they want to do more than just play like friends. Oh my God, I don't know how to say it. I don't know how. So they begin to... They bone. They boff.

Okay, right. They boff. It's like a boff both which is the french for nookie and so they become they fall in love that was that's a good way of putting it yeah that's better than the other story so far exactly this is why it all got all confused so they got they fell in love and then they decided to get married and in a place called nantgwrthain which is a beautiful valley on the west coast of wales anyway the night before the wedding um all the neighbors get together and bring gifts like yeast flour oh that's rubbish present but supposedly put it on your wedding list you know true sometimes you just fill in the filling it out with like cheap ones for people though you want them to tally up with some of the more expensive ones yeah i can't remember what the other examples were but the fact that there were two examples and one of them was yeast

flour i'd say it's a pretty disappointing wedding list but they were so in love that they weren't about material things on the night before the wedding there's like a oh no on the morning of the wedding there's a tradition that the bride goes and hides and then the wedding party have to all go and find her and then marriage happens and now some of the stories say that he saw her in her wedding dress on the morning before the hunt that's terrible maybe that could be part of what's to come so she goes and hides and they start looking for her and they can't find her anywhere. And Frisch gets really like worried and he's like, has she run away? Does she not want to get married? He doesn't, can't believe that she didn't want to get married because they were so in love.

And so he searches and searches. And then that day goes by and they haven't found her. And there's a big storm and he's like worried that she's out in the rain and the thunder and lightning and stuff. Anyway, weeks go by and he still doesn't find her and he starts to lose his mind. Great story to be told when you're seven years old. I can't believe I wasn't traumatized. Because when I reread it recently, I found myself quite emotional about it. When I was seven, I was like, whatevs.

Standard, totally fine. So he loses his mind, gets of paranoid and and has a horrible time and then eventually months later he goes out to his favorite old oak tree that he used to go to with Maynard and he sits down by it and is having a bit of a cry and then a thunder and lightning storm happens and cracks the tree open and inside it is a skeleton bride because she had hidden in the tree on their wedding day for him to find her but she slipped into it and got trapped and couldn't get out and animals had started to eat her and the lightning and stuff had struck her so she got all all, like, shocked and stuff as well. So by the time he got to her, she was just a skeleton in a wedding dress.

And with the shock of seeing it, her, he died, like, at the same, as well. And so that's pretty horrific, isn't it? Yeah. Oh, wow, yeah. And so I thought that that was the Santa's Dwyne Wynne story, but it wasn't. That was the Rhys a Meyner story. I'm really sorry. So when you said these might be good for Valentine's Day,

you knew what was going to happen in the stories. Oh, yeah. And you knew you were setting us up for nice romantic stories. Oh, was I? Well, did you not see my face lighting up with delight at the anticipation of happy lovers? Or at least a fun game of hide and seek. Oh.

Rather than... Tragic. That was like an episode of 999. I know. The last bit, the first bit was, I don't know, that was like, I don't know, Silent Witness or something. That was horrible. Yeah.

But the last bit, because that's a standard story, the bride who goes and hides. But normally she hides in a chest in the attic and then gets found years later. There's a skeleton in her chest. Oh, does she? There's no... She got trapped in a tree and then a squirrel ate her

and then she was struck by lightning. Also struck by lightning. Also struck by, it's the unnecessary addition of being struck by lightning into the story. She was already dead. I know. Multiple times as well. She got struck by lightning, which kind of killed her.

Kind of frazzled, yeah. And that's also what revealed her hiding place. Wow. Or it's the idea that she was just hanging on in the tree up until that point, nearly dead, somewhat nibbled? No, it was definitely a skeleton. It was definitely like bones in a dress. It was definitely a slow, horrible death.

Yeah. Come on. It's Valentine's. And I know that it was a skeleton because I remember at the age of seven, we all had to draw. We were told a story, and then we had to draw a cartoon strip telling the story. So we all drew a nice skeleton-y bride picture and had to... You were all made to draw the skeleton bride?

Yeah. Just to really hammer it home, lock it in. Now, do remember, she was a skeleton. So you must draw all her bits hanging off, and maybe the lightning shooting out her skull into little fragments and that sort of thing. Maybe a little squirrel eating an ear. Nibbling on an ear.

That's my Welsh accent. That's very good. God, Welsh teachers are horrible people, I assume. Yeah, and if that story happened after Santas Dinwen happened, then Santas Duinwen's wish for good luck to all lovers, that failed, didn't it? Yeah.

Well, the Pinterest set of the animals, I suppose, maybe they got some. Good news for the squirrel. Yeah, great news for the squirrel. Yeah, so he's like, thank you. Deeth Santas Duinwen is like, for a while, didn't get that much publicity. And you know how Valentine's Day is like

uber commercial and like a worldwide thing well um Sanchez Duinwen is trying to get more and more publicity and trying to be like hey look at us we're a thing too and so much so that recently they tried to up the publicity of Sanchez Duinwen by some fermours which is Welsh for farmers tried of course it is tried to get some sweet loving by selling their milk in jars that had photos of their faces on saying happy sunday's wind one day does anybody want to go out with me like a lonely hearts yeah milk bottle yeah like instead of a missing child it's your own face that's that's i, missing children is sad, but to be propositioned over cornflakes by an unknown farmer.

Oh, and there's another, I've got another Sanchez de Winwin, just a tiny little fact, that it's tradition on Sanchez de Winwin Day for people to give cards and gifts and go to gigs and concerts and stuff. And they also give the traditional welsh love spoon you know like a wooden that's a move i think it's happened to me yeah do you not know about love spoons just spooning oh no that's what i was imagining so it's like a wooden spoon but it

its handle is like lots of heart shapes is that what that is? Yeah. I've seen that. Yeah, so that's like a gift for San Testarino one day. And the biggest one they ever made was 44 foot long. Who was that for? A sad giant? Yeah, maybe for one of the Mabinogion giants. Oh, come on! You can't be pulling out Welsh giants

at this stage. No, I won't. Oh, there's one called Bendigidfran. And he made himself a bridge across from Wales to Ireland. He made his body a bridge. Oh, he made his body a bridge. Who for? The Welsh, I think. Or maybe it was like to get the English out of Wales into Ireland or something.

I don't know. It's like, here's a bridge for you, English. Right? Yeah. Just take the hint. Yeah. Oh, I lost the accent completely there. Couldn't have that. I think the score's unless there's any more giants. Yeah, hint. Oh, I lost the accent completely there. Couldn't have that. I think the score's unless there's any more giants.

Sorry, I went off on a tangent. No, last minute introduction of giants. Very welcome. Scores, please. Scores, please. What score? Scorio. Scorio. Now, we come to the Scorio section. Naming. Yeah.

What's going on with your face there, James? What expression are you doing there? This is my problem with the Welsh. I'm just going to get it all out now. Okay. A lot of the names are basically just English words said in a Welsh accent. Brachan Brachyniog.

Yeah, Brian Brechnog. Brian Eggnog. What's Brian in Welsh? Bryn Bryn Bryn means hill But there is a name Bryn

But Bryn Is a name His king Bryn Bryn Egnog So Bryn They Bryn'd him twice I know And hadn't you ever thought That maybe they're all just true words that the english

have made their version sound like so welsh was the original i don't think the english would steal something from a colony come on now be reasonable yeah don't and also don't look at history yeah all right well i think your your xenophobic attack on the Welsh, I don't think it holds up because the names sound brilliant. They do, actually. I mean, that's the reason I haven't said any of them. Like, Brochan Brocheinog. That was very good. Is that right?

Yeah, yeah. Grisenmenir. Is that one? Yeah, yeah. How are we doing? And what's the other one? Santa's what? Santa's Dwynwen.

Santa's Dwynwen. So is that Sant S Wynwen or, as James is saying, Santa's Dwinwen? It's Santa's means saint and Dwinwen is her name. So James was right. And what was the guy called, the old... Malon Daffodril. Malon... Daffodril.

Daffodril. Or I call him Vanilla Ice. Ice Cube probably would have been better one to choose. Ice Tea. There's a lot of hip hop artists with ice in the name. Yeah, because it's so cool. Oh! That's right.

Did you not? My God, I've never... Hello, Cool J. Yes, ladies love Cool James. That's his genuine name. Or in Welsh, Cool James. I'm not 100% confident you haven't done that joke on the podcast before, James. What, ladies love Cool James?

Yeah. Have you not mentioned that before? Well, then it's a running joke. I think it's five out of five for names, James. Yeah, I mean, come on. You've come here with our blooming language. Come on. Yeah, five out of five for names, James. Yeah, I mean, come on. You've come here with our blooming language. Come on. Yeah, five out of five for naming.

Thanks. What's Welsh for five? Pimp. It actually is. I hope also that the other ones are just like English numbers, but in a Welsh accent. One, two, three, four, pimp. Six, seven.

How's it spelled? I think it's P-U-M-P. It's not a real language. It isn't a real language. It isn't a real language. I mean, it's obvious she's making this up, James. I can't believe we gave that five. I can't believe we gave her that pimp. Pimp her a pimp.

Pump her a pimp. Real tears. It's got real tears. Real tears. I'm so proud of Wales. So I feel like all the other categories will inevitably be a disappointment. They will. There's no way you can top that. But what is the next category? Please tell me how many points I've got for supernatural.

A lot, again, I think. That's pretty supernatural, isn't it? Yeah, there's angel. Actually, being in a tree, that's not supernatural. But turning someone into a block of ice. That's, yeah, supernatural. No, because if we say that's good, then that means that we're endorsing David Blaine,

and I'm not happy with that. But it's quite supernatural that... In the days before freezers. Yes. Back in the 5th century, just to freeze somebody in Wales in a block of human-sized ice. Because Wales is so balmy. No, but there's not often big bits of ice as big as a person.

Yeah, the block of ice is clearly supernatural. There's magic potions. Oh, magic potions. Or there's one magic potion that has two functions, which is kind of like a day and night nurse. Yeah. Some effect. Can cause drows day and night nurse sort of effect, can cause drowsiness

and freezes. That's pretty impressive. Boiling well. Boiling well. Nice. I'm sure there was something more supernatural than just some ice. I think it's stupid that he didn't check

the tree. That's the classic first place you should have checked, like their special tree. But I think it's stupid that he didn't check the tree. That's the classic first place you should have checked, like their special tree. But I think she'd climbed up it and fallen into a hole in it because then it was only the lightning that struck it and opened it. And that's quite supernatural that that happened the moment he went there, like in desperation months after, and then it cracked open at that point. I did read a version of the story.

I did have a little bit of research on this and I saw a version of the story where the tree opens, he finds her, he reaches out to touch her and then she gets struck by lightning and he dies. Wow. The version I read, he died of sadness,

but that's quite supernatural, your version. So actually you're upping my supernatural score by telling me that version. Thank you so kindly. Alright, so it's supernatural, your version. So actually you're upping my supernatural score by telling me that version. Thank you so kindly. All right, so it's three, I think. You think a three? I think it's a three. Yeah.

What do you reckon? I wanted to have another pimp. I'm sure there's room for more pimps in here. Yeah, I think a three. It's three. And you should be very happy with that. That's a perfectly respectable score. We'll see if I'm happy with it when we find out what scores I get for the others.

Well, what's the next category then? The next category is star-crossed lovers. I've heard people bandy around, and I'm going to level with you guys. I don't know what star-crossed lover means. I think it comes from, it's Romeo and Juliet, isn't it? Yeah. The start of Romeo and Juliet. Does that not mean like fated to be together?

No, the opposite. Oh. The stars are fating you for doom. of Romeo and Juliet and it's does that not mean like fated to be together no the opposite oh the stars are fating you for doom so it's like star cross lovers like angry cross the stars are a little bit cross

yeah oh interestingly I thought it meant like the stars are going like until they miss each other oh like they don't meet oh and they just pass each other

like ships in the night but stars in the sky here's a word fact disastrous means the same thing. Disastrous. So the ast in that is like astro.

So it's like it's not, oh, it's not in the stars. It was a disaster, meaning the stars were against it. That's amazing. And that's one of those ones that I'm 95% sure is true. What does astroturf mean? Astroturf, it comes from the Houston Astros, and they were the first people to put this fake grass in their baseball stadium. Oh, right.

What? Yeah, that's 100% true. Oh, is that why it's Astro? That's why it's called AstroTurf. I assumed they had it like on the... It came from Mars. I thought they had it on the Apollo missions to make them feel at home. Honestly.

When they played the golf on the moon. It was laid down in a little AstroTurf green. What? Wow, I had no idea. So, and this story has two pairs of star-crossed lovers. Does it mean bad lovers? Yeah, cursed, doomed lovers. Right.

Okay. And these guys were definitely that. And think about the mum and dad. Oh, the mum of Broughan, of Dwynwen, was called Riggraust. I've just remembered. Oh. You can't get more than a pimp.

So Rhyg Rhaust and Brachan Brachyniog, they had a bit of a nightmare with their kids as well, didn't they? Star-Crossed Love. They're very Star-Crossed. They're very lovey. There's four of them. There's four of them? Two pair.

Yeah. You think it's four out of five? I think it's a four out of five. Thanks. Yeah. Good work. Cheers. What's four in Welsh? Pedwar.'s a four out of five. Thanks. Yeah. Good work. Cheers. What's four in Welsh?

Padwar. Padwar out of pimp? Three is tree. No! It is. And my final category is poor gifts. Yeah. Yeast.

It's not a great gift. It's not even false concentrate yeast. It's flowery yeast. Yeast flour. Oh, is this like a sort of like an artisan sour dough bakery giving out its special uh starter mix that's been going for 50 was it a hipster wedding it does sound a bit that way now you mention it yeah um actually i had my whole wedding inside of a tree oh she's got struck by lightning it's cool. Let some squirrels eat a bit of me.

Hipsters. All classic hipster moves. Yeah, archetypal hipster-ness. What other gifts were there? She said it was a gift to all lovers. She wished peace upon them. Good luck to them, yeah. Oh, she wished for God to look after them.

Yeah, because sort of good luck to them is a little bit like good luck, kids. Yeah. But God looking after them has worked out quite poorly, I think, unless everybody's still happy in Wales, are they? I can't speak for all of Wales. I'm a Welsh woman and I'm not happy in love. Oh. Oh, you look genuinely sad.

Yeah, I feel really bad. No, I'm not unhappy in love. I'm just a lone wolf. That's what they call the ones who shoot people, Jenny. Yes. Oh, sorry. It's not as cool as it used to be. Lone sharks aren't great either.

People tend not to like lone sharks. Lone ranger. Lone ranger. Were you about to say lone gunman? I was going to say lone riderman i was gonna say lone rider okay yes that's a good phrase yeah 44 foot love spoon who's gonna use that 44 foot love spoon that's a poor gift yeah but a good band name i think i think that is a poor quality gift they seem very impractical with their spiky little end

yeah uh what's the welsh word for a love spoon loy garyad and does that just literally mean that is a poor quality gift. They seem very impractical with their spiky little end. Yeah. What's the Welsh word for a love spoon? Llywgariad. And does that just literally mean love spoon? Uh-huh. And on Dydd Santus Dwynwain, people say Dwyn Dygarydy, which means I love you. Isn't that nice?

Oh. Yeah. Nice that Gary gets a shout out. Well, that's a few gifts that we've got there. What are you thinking, James? I think it's got to be a pimp. You just want to say pimp again. I just want to say pimp. Well, I think we'd be remiss not to pimp it at this point.

So if you read out the scores in Welsh... Pimp tree, pedwar pimp. Pimp tree, pidefar pimp. Good. Classic game of Ice-Fly. If you're looking out of a car as you drive into Wales, that's what you see. Have you got another little tale for us, Jenny, Deputy Lawperson?

Before we revoke your Deputy Lawpersonship. Sure. Yeah, because I'm ready to demand your gun and badge but do you have another tale i have got one small tale to do it's a sad one brilliant so there's a knight in wales i don't remember his name but he's a knight not a knight like the opposite of day yeah right you got that there's a knight And he had a really loyal dog called Gellert. And one day he got called to battle or something. Hang on. He had a baby.

They're both important. He had a baby. But you need to know which it is to know what to pack. Battle or baby. Right. So he left the baby in the care of Gellert, the very loyal dog. So I think the mother of the baby had perished long ago, childbirth perhaps. So the baby's very young, gets left in the house of the night. He goes out to battle. And then when he comes back, there's blood everywhere. And he's like, Gellert! And

there's like baby things all around the place. And he's like, Gellert, Gellert's killed my baby. So he kills Gellert. And then he goes behind a curtain in the room and the baby is there alive. And what Gellert has done is protect, is hidden the baby from the wolf that came in. And the blood was Gellert's blood because the wolf, the wolf had tried to get the baby, but Gellert fought it to protect the baby and the knight didn't realise. And so he's killed his own dog thinking that he'd killed his baby and the baby was fine. And then I think he killed the wolf and then he vowed never to smile again.

True, that's definitely the end. And that's the end. That's the end. I've met a few Welsh guys who that must have happened to. It's surprising how common that is. And there's a place, a beautiful place in Wales

called Baird's gallop which means gallop's grave and you can go and see the grave of gallop the dog it is really sad it's a really sad story well sorry not really it sounds like a man who's sorry a knight who's terrible uh decisions he makes very very bad choices very, very bad choices, making some very bad choices. Yeah. He needed to check for baby. All his punishment is self-imposed not smile.

Well, being a single parent is difficult. Trying to keep the wolves from the door. Yeah. As a woke dad myself. It's awake. An awake dad. If anything, I'm too awake because of the babies that i mean come on that's a stupid thing to do he shouldn't have left it the baby just for the dog agreed

agreed no there's no doubt that that was where he went wrong yeah yeah the bit where he left the baby with the dog was the mistake it's not a satisfactory tale you don't come away from it going great i feel i learned something there i feel i learned something there that i'm right in never leaving my baby in the care of a dog and also when i think my baby's being been murdered having a proper look around first check for a live baby before you proceed the trouble is though that's like you ruin literally every shakespeare play if after finding out some bad news, you wait 10 minutes just to check. Almost every great tragedy is ruined if you do that. Yeah.

By ruined, do you mean isn't a tragedy? It'll be fine. Oh, they weren't really dead. Oh, a notice just arrived. Oh, brilliant. Oh, they're twins. Tragedy hinges on everyone taking quick, decisive wrong action. Yeah.

It's a good story, though. Yeah, it's a good story. Thanks. Should we do some mini scores for it? So what is the first category? Supernatural. Yeah. It's a good story though. Yeah, it's a good story. Thanks. Should we do some mini scores for it? So what is the first category? Supernatural. Zero. No, I think it was quite clever

of Gellert to hide the baby behind the curtain because how did he get the baby down and not kill it and manage to put it somewhere? That's quite a clever little bit of a magic dog.

I don't know. It's not magical because dogs hide stuff all the time. Okay. I'm literally clutching at straws. It depends if he sort of buried it. That would's not magical because dogs hide stuff all the time. Okay. I'm literally clutching at straws. It depends if you sort of buried it.

That would be not magical, but it's impressive if it... You hid it so well. Yeah. Well, it must have been quite good at babysitting to get the gig again. And did it babysit for other nights when they went off to battle? Just like, you know, a little teenage dog getting off with its doggy girlfriend. like you know a little teenage dog getting off with its teenage doggy girlfriend i reckon it's a it's a one for this promiscuous teenage dog babysitter yeah maybe the wolf was just coming around for a bone yeah yeah yeah it's got to have been supernaturally good at looking after babies

or this knight is an absolute lunatic he's supernaturally lunatic. You can't have both. You can't have one or the other. And I'll take one point. Magic dog. Yeah, yeah. Okay. One point. Good. Yeah.

Second category. Names. Well, you couldn't remember the names, but Gellert's quite good. Yeah. Gellert. That's a brand of pen, I think. And outdoor wear. Oh, that's what I'm thinking of.

Short for Gellert. I thought there was like a Gellert brand. There's definitely Gellert clothing, which is like outdoor mountain stuff. For babies. Hides babies from wolves. That's quite good. It's still only one name, really. It's a short tail, though.

It's a short tail, yeah. I'm inclined to go for a three because I feel like... Yeah, yeah. Yes. Three out of five. What's the final category? Oh, number of canines. Number of caninesines There's definitely two

There's two I mean I feel you should have said Number of canines times two plus one Yeah that's what I meant And then you get a full pimp Aww But two in Welsh is die So it's kind of apt

That's like the knight's command To the dog Actually canine teeth So two each So, canine teeth. So two each. So each canine tooth in a story, it's four, the number of canines. And in fact, if we include the dogs on top of that, we're on six. Yeah, so let's call it a round five.

I think everyone does. If it's out of five. Doesn't everyone have four canine teeth each? Do we have four canines? Yeah, top and bottom. So we're on to that eight. Eight, and then the canine number of a... I mean, a name of the animal. Would all the teeth... Aren't all the teeth in a dog's canine teeth?

Strictly speaking, yes. And dogs have... How many teeth do dogs have? Let's just Google how many teeth dogs have. God, my search history is going to be wacky. We're going to have to revoke the deputy lawmanship. This is unprecedented and crazy. How many teeth do dogs have?

42. 42. So what are we on? 84 teeth do dogs have? 42. 42. So what are we on? 84 teeth. 84 canine teeth. Yeah. A tangent and a half. Supernumerary canine teeth.

That's a lot. A lot of canines. I reckon we call it the maximum number of points I'm allowed, which is how many pimp. Yeah. It's a square. It's pimp out of pimp.

Do you know what 500 is? Pimp cant. You've been listening to Lawmen. The Lawmen are James Shakespeare and Alastair Beckett King. Please subscribe, rate, review and recommend to a friend. You can tweet us at LawmenPod or email us at contact at lawmenpodcast.com to suggest stories from your area. Jenny Collier, Deputy Lawman Jenny Collier, how can the listeners to our podcast find you and about your jokes? Find you and about your jokes? Find you and about your jokes.

Yep. Yeah, I'm ready. Answer that. You can find me and about my jokes on all the usual social media platfi. There's Twitter, at JenJenCollier is Twitter and Instagram. Facebook, Jenny Collier, comedian, I think. Or if you just type it in, there's a picture of my face. And I'm also, I've got a website. All my gigs are listed on there. Please

come to my Edinburgh show, which I don't know what it's going to be called yet, but it might be called the Gen Commandments. And yeah, you just find me on that. www. W-W-W dot. Twice. So it's quintuple W. Yeah. Sorry, sextuple W. It's World Wide Web dot Wales, Wales, Wales. That's my Welsh stutter. Okay.

Just go on the internet. Just go on the internet. You can find me pretty easily, yeah.