Loremen Podcast - S3 Ep1: Loremen S3 Ep1 - Pierre Novellie - Gef the Talking Mongoose

Episode Date: December 20, 2019

The Loremen ride again. Again! Series 3 kicks off with a bang as Pierre Novellie joins the Loremen to impart his Manx wisdom. Pierre's home, the Isle of Man, once played host to Gef the Talking Mongoose. In the 1930s, Gef was an infamous mischief-maker and an extremely cocky mammal. His tale is as perplexing as Manx cats' tails are non-existent, and Alasdair and James are left bamboozled by what must be the Irish sea's most masculine island*. *Second only to Manly Beach, Australia, in the macho location stakes. @pierrenovellie @loremenpod www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod @JamesShakeshaft | @MisterABK

Welcome to Lawmen Season 3. This is a podcast where we investigate local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm Alistair Beckett-King. And I'm James Shakeshaft. And I think investigate is perhaps a strong word. It's a massive exaggeration based on what we do. We read pamphlets. Books. A little bit of Wikipedia. Occasionally some ballads.

You're more ballading than me. I'm heavily ballad based. And our first episode. What's it about, James? Well, we've got a guest in. We've got a guest law person, Piena Velli. He's a fantastic stand-up comedian with a name from, I think, every country on earth.

Piena Velli, French and Italian. He's not either of those things. No, he's from the Isle of Man. But he told us a great story about a talking animal. Jeff the Talking Mongoose. I guess we should introduce Pierre to the listeners of the podcast, I suppose. Please, listen. I don't know how to address

the listeners. I've never addressed them. Oh, no, this is the thing. I was thinking about this today. You speak to them as though it were one person, which, to be honest, no, we both listen to it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. OK. Easily double figures. So future Alistair. We have very excitingly a deputy lawman present with us in the tiny recording box. And I think easily the largest man I've seen, I think. Not just the largest person we've had on the podcast. It's Pierre Novelli. Hello, Pierre.

Hello. Hello. And obviously this is an audio medium, so the true scale of the man can't really be appreciated. But, like, I'm 6'2". How tall are you, James? 6'3 or 4", depending on my back. Whereas, Pierre, you are about 7 feet tall and wide, I think. You're like the broad shoulders of a giant.

A cube of beef and pork. I'm 6'4 in my stocking feet. But it is the... Because I am wide, if I say my height on stage i get heckled really people don't believe you they think you're looking at a squat person yes where you're actually there's no visual reference point apart from the mic stand and that's not a fixed visual reference that's why i always get holding a 50 pence piece so people know exactly how large i i hold a two pound coin but say it's a one pound coin i should get a meter ruler or something but jenny a couple of times

where i for the purposes of a joke i've had to mention my height and uh it there's always been an element of dispute and murmur that's such a great thing to be heckled for yeah i think he's lying uh obviously um the listeners i'm sure will know you from many wonderful edinburgh hours and uh the mash report and the bud pod yes none of that is of any importance here the important thing is that you are from two places you're from south africa and the isle of man yes and previously on the podcast we've because we obviously we make fun of folklore on this podcast a little bit um which is fine but when it's other countries folklores it feels a bit weird for us to go they believe this crazy thing now we have no problem

whatsoever making fun of south africans or people from the isle of man yeah but we got you here anyway so we can do it really directly yeah yes yes it turned out it was massive so what i'm saying is just defend defend your culture okay there is I think, a very special story attached to The Iron Man, which is obviously a magical and a wonderful place full of extraordinary mysticism. Yes, it's very otherworldly. Even in its sort of dull bits, it's still odd. Even in the Tesco Metro. Yeah, it really is,

because it'll still be full of, like, local wares. Is that a version of werewolves? What sense of were? That's our slur. that's our local slur for the werewolf community um it's still it's very i took a friend of mine who's from he's from sort of southwest london and he came to visit me on on the island as we say the isle of man and he only came for a bit, but he said really sincerely that the whole place had an air of... Like, he really didn't expect it to feel so different, but it really did.

He found it quite odd. Yeah. He said there's elements of this place that feel like you're in a sort of odd dream. Yeah. I've never been. I imagine a sort of Royston Vasey by way of the Wicker Man kind of vibe.

Yes. But Royston Vasey with more of a beach life Man kind of vibe. Yes, but Royston Vasey with more of a beach life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know Cumbria well enough, but does Cumbria have any sort of fading seaside towns? It's further south on that bit of the coast generally, isn't it? Because the accent kind of goes all over the place. The older Isle of Man guys,

I mean like people in their 80s or 90s, sound more Irish. And the younger guys sound more sort of Scouse or Cumbrian. I've been shouted at by Mark Cavendish. Yes. Shouted and sworn at by Mark Cavendish. That had a very sort of northwest

Manchester, Liverpool edge to the attack. Yeah, and if you're not listening carefully enough you might think like oh yeah, okay, they're from Kirby Lonsdale or somewhere sort of sort of halfway between liverpool and cumberick mountains but if you if you know the accent you can immediately go right that's isle of man or yeah it's weird it's a odd sounding one what's the main sort of method of ingress to the island that's not the right word is it ingress yeah how'd you get there? Is it plane? Is it boat? Is it pedalo?

You can fly. It's way further from the English. Kidnapping, I think. Because the population's dropping and they've got to do something. A magic well is the best way. Yeah, a mass if you want to see puppies. And then you're there. You wake up.

Just no memory. And you've always been there. Why are there carvings of me on this stone um the the isle of man is much farther from the english coast than people think so that you can take the ferry from liverpool or haysham for example um but it is it's still it's like a four to six hour ferry wow right it is it is almost exactly halfway between say liverpool and dublin okay the closest bit of land is only just by like a mile that weird bit of scotland that dribbles down that's that bit of that that particular firth or whatever it is it dribbles down and now it's it's sort of on a level with um carlisle oh yes so that whatever

that i can't remember what it's called but that that they've measured it that's technically the nearest bit of land but i mean you can get a ferry from anglesey uh and dublin as well what it's called but they've measured it, that's technically the nearest bit of land but I mean you can get a ferry from Anglesey and Dublin as well so it's right bang in the middle people think it's like the Isle of Wight like it's a 20 minute car ferry I think I went on a hovercraft to the Isle of Wight

when I was a kid it was very exciting the seas are too rough for hovercraft and the Irish sea is a cruel In winter is a cruel Do you want to come to the Isle of Man? Will there be hovercrafts? No

Too rough for your hovercraft boy There'll be no hovering in any craft I just watched Jaws for the first time And that's a bang on quint Black like a dog's eyes That is a bang on impression It's extraordinary I exactly. Black like a dog's eyes. That is a bang on impression. It's extraordinary.

I've never seen the film until this week and for that shock of a character. But he was big. But the scene when they introduced Quint, it must have been so spooved as a scene

that I can't watch it as a straight scene because the long tracking on him telling a crazy rambling story and't watch it as a straight scene because the long tracking on him telling a crazy rambling story and he pausing to eat a whole cracker

in the middle of it it's very fun to talk about things that you find disturbing or predatory as if they are the shark in jaws

so like what's a sort of famously shallow like have you seen the eyes of a reality star boy black like a what's a sort of famously shallow like have you seen the eyes of a reality star boy black like a dog's eyes like really imply that they're sort of soulless predators

just use that speech and substitute shark for for instagram influencer or whatever it might be i really enjoyed it yeah the problem is that was a masterfully constructed story and uh what i have notes on here is is is it's a very unusual even by the standards of the weird folk stories yeah and and mystical legends we've talked about this one is odd jeff g-e-f that's right g-e-f jeff the talking mongoose yes is the name of this story jeff the talking Mongoose is but one of Jeff the Talking Mongoose's names. Other names include the Dolby Spook, the Man Weasel, the Fifth Dimension, the Eighth Wonder of the World,

and an extra, extra clever mongoose. All of those names were names that he gave himself. Of course he did. Using his talking skills. Yeah. Dolby? Well, you were telling me about that area of the yeah okay it's not like he wasn't also an audio technician invented surround sound so that he could really dolby dolby with an

a i can't emphasize enough how accurate it would be to call it a hamlet i mean a hamlet by isle of man standards in that someone's killed your dad yeah exactly um it's it's it's like uh three houses and a farm kind of thing if that it's it's it's barely blink and you'll miss it kind of place it's very very small and it's on the west coast of the island which is is, I would argue, the spookier bit. The west coast of the island near Peel. Can you put a number on it? How much spookier percentage is it? It's at least 50% spookier. 50 to 80% spookier.

With a fair wind. Yes, with a fair wind behind it, the spookiness will reach. The least spooky bit of the Isle of Man is probably the airport lounge. The airport lounge of the Isle of Man has a very Twin Peaks vibe in my head. In fact, I did a routine ages ago about the, it has a Budgie the Little Helicopter ride. That sort of continuously pleads for custom. And so if you sit in the Isle of Man airport long enough, you will be sort of intermittently

harassed by the spirit of budgie the little helicopter trapped in this ride and i the routine centered around how odd it was he was begging for customers from a sort of a demographic that can't possibly have any clue who he is or why he has a face or yeah well i mean that's a like a 25 year old show is it early 90s yeah yeah so what but there he is every time anybody any kids listening um budgie's a little helicopter look it up well anyway yes so dalby's like a little hamlet on the western coast on the way to peel from the south and one of those farmhouses that you were talking about is Cashin's Gap, or Dawlish Cashin in Manx, I think. And a family lived there, four people, Jim and Margaret Irving and their two daughters,

one of whom is called, I'm donning to you for the pronunciation. Oh, Vorry. Vorry. Vorry. Because it's spelled sort of Voire, I was going to pronounce it. Voire. Vorry. Vorry. Vorry. Because it's spelled sort of Voire, I was going to pronounce it. Voire. Vorry. And they begin to hear rustlings in the wall.

So this is a stone farmhouse, quite an old building. It's 1932. But for insulation from the harsh and merciless winds. Are there harsh and merciless winds? Never been there. Pretty harsh and merciless. Pretty harsh and merciless. It's got an inner wall that's built with a little insulating gap.

Right. And they start to hear the sounds of scurrying and screeching within that gap. And as days and weeks and months go on, they become more complicated and they start to hear sounds and words and then pop songs. And finally, there is one pop song, I can't remember which one. pop songs, and finally, there is one pop song, I can't remember which one. Finally, the spirit or creature in the walls learns to speak and begins to address the family and communicate with them using human speech. And it's a mongoose.

It says it's a mongoose. It says it's a mongoose. He also says that he's not a spirit, but sometimes he says that he is a spirit, and sometimes he says he's the eighth dimension. So he says a lot of strange things. There are a couple of photographs of him. In one of them, he looks like a sort of toilet brush. And in the other one, he looks like just like half of a draft excluder wrapped around a fence.

Did he pop out from the walls then? Yes, they all saw him. So sometimes they would see him at night. And even visitors to the house would sometimes see two little beady eyes peering at them from the end of the bed. But he's mainly known for not being seen and talking. So, for instance, Jim Irving was reading the newspaper one day. And the screeching voice, the exact voice you would imagine a mongoose to have, said, Read it out, you fat-headed gnome!

Yes, extremely rude. A lot of it was gnome. Ooh. Yes, extremely rude. A lot of it was quite aggressive. Some very insulting things were said. And basically, word got out about the magic mongoose. As it would. Naturally, you can't keep someone like that quiet. No. Tabloids got interested, and people came to investigate.

And it's very weird. It's a really weird story. Yes, it's a talking mongoose that lives in the walls. But it's very, like, Jeff. Unusually for anything to do with the Isle of Man, especially in the 30s. It was in, like, all the English papers. Yeah, like, people come over and, like, Harry Price, the famous investigator of the paranormal, comes over and investigates it. And, as does another paranormal investigator.

And it's not that everybody believes it. It's that it's very difficult to tell what kind of thing is going on it's hard to tell if they're mad or if it's a because if it's a hoax it's a weird hoax so a lot of people think that it's it's very throwing her voice um right but on the other hand in like this everybody thought you could actually throw your voice and make it sound like your voice was actually coming from a different place which as we in show business know isn't a thing it's just it's a microphone and you're just pretending the voice is coming from somewhere else you can't actually make it sound like it's coming from behind someone and there are several accounts of bystander witnesses hearing the voice when she was outside or far away or in a completely

different location yeah and there's no real like it's not like it was the the dolby theme park so it was loads of money in it no they they didn't sell their story um they kept trying not to be interviewed about it um they they didn't want any attention some people think it's oh they oh, they just wanted to get the farmhouse famous so they could sell it, because they're very poor farmers. They didn't sell it until after Jim had died, and they sold it at a loss, because nobody wanted the haunted

house. So, there's no gain to be had from them for inventing a mongoose. And there was that, I didn't realize, there was a huge legal case. I didn't know there was a legal case. There was a libel case because someone involved was in some sort of position at the BFI. Oh, yes. He was accused in the paper of being some sort of lunatic for believing in this mongoose.

And he sued for libel. Which is weird. Defamation of character. Because that label, I think he won. Which means that in law it's been established that he isn't crazy and therefore the mongoose must exist surely he won because the the so the case you only really have a case if someone accuses you of something um that and this is useful for all podcasters to know um if you accuse someone of something in the uk and it is a an imprisonable crime they don't you you don't that person doesn't have to prove it's affected their life at all.

The fact it's a crime means you're f***ed up. However, if it's not a crime, if it's just something weird, like believing in a mongoose, it's up to the angry person to prove that it's ruining their life and losing them business. And ironically, the council of the BFI, I think, wrote a memo to the guy saying, stop suing them for saying you're mad.

You're making us embarrassed. And we won't want you involved anymore. And therefore won the case for him by writing him that memo. By saying, tone down the mongoose business for God's sake. Well, drop the case. Or you're in trouble. So he won the case because they warned him to drop the case. Wow. And that apparently is referred to as the mongoose case

in legal precedent. But unfortunately it doesn't establish, as I was hoping, that the mongoose was definitely real precedent but unfortunately doesn't establish as i was hoping that the mongoose was definitely real no that would be a good film though oh what the final we call the final witness yes he's in the ceiling yeah yeah yeah you can't it's a long story put the gavel down you fat-headed i was thinking more of some like like all those horror movies where they, or like Woman in Black or Dracula, where a sort of an educated man from London is sent to the Isle of Man to determine the... I love those stories. It's always someone who wears a sort of waistcoat and is very fastidious, being harassed by the paranormal. Yeah, who should we get on the case here?

I know an uptight virgin. Should we send him? He's not got a lot on. He's a little unstable. No, who should we get on the case here? I know an uptight virgin. Should we send him? He's not got a lot on. He's a little unstable. No, he'll be fine. I know a guy who combs his hair down really brutally. Really buttoned up kind of guy.

Yeah, yeah, it's all starchy. It sounds perfect. Send him. Hates travel, loves documents. That guy. So it was taken seriously two investigators investigated it and they the family produced some evidence and i encourage you to not google the pictures of the evidence i've described two of them to you they're not hugely impressive there are imprints

of his teeth and paws which look a little bit uh sort of school craft day i have to say uh and there is some of some hair. Now, I have done some first-hand research here. I went to Harry Price's Library of Magical Literature in Sanit House, and I have seen with these sweet eyes

Jeff the Talking Mongoose's hair. There is a little bundle and it's labelled the hair of Jeff the Talking mongoose Now I I'm not a zoologist I've no particular skill when it comes to forensic Or a cryptozoologist

Are you a hair person? I don't know anything about hair I've never seen a mongoose But I can tell you one thing for god damn certain James That was mongoose hair Yeah I saw it They did send it to an expert who said that it was dog hair. But he's dead now.

How many dimensions did this dog hair have? It's just, if you can imagine, it's sort of yellowish. You know the camel bristles from a paintbrush? Oh, yeah. It's that sort of buff tan colour. Quite similar to the colour of the sheepdog belonging to the Irving family's hair, I understand. But, I've seen it, James.

You've seen it? And now he's real to me. Geoff, yeah, Geoff is proving himself from presumably beyond the Beyond the Grave. Is he, because he's no longer active, Geoff? Yes. Am I spoiling? No, Geoff is no longer active. I want to back it up up because several people saw him.

Workman wouldn't go into the house because it had a terrible reputation. And someone called Captain Dennis, who seems to be a quite straightforward sort of military chap. He was one of the people who witnessed him doing stuff while nobody seemed to be able to be in the position to make that noise. So while Jim was in the wrong place while while uh vori was far away he had experiences and heard the voice which i think is pretty impressive and unusual yeah it opens the door to uh where what would the theory be here to if you were sort of minded for this sort of thing but not minded for a talking mongoose you'd say like a tricksy demon or a poltergeist i think it's often referred to as the dolby spirit so so that the of the people who think that these sorts of things do happen

yes poltergeist is quite popular except they don't usually talk and that poltergeists are usually aggressive and violent whereas while the mongoose was rude he was also quite helpful he was more like a sort of household spirit who like you say is yes mischievous but also sometimes helpful you know he would he would do a bit of tidying up he would get he would get things for them a sort of hearth spirit of some kind yeah and he and he would he would do little bits of spying on them he'd got he'd scurry around to other people's houses and come back with information so jim irving was able to tell people things about their houses that he'd never been inside because uh because the little mongoose had scurried out there and come back and told him

however after jim irving died it toned down and the person who bought cashin's gap didn't experience any mongoose related activity not all that what a brilliant one of the paranormal activity series that would be mongoose-related activity. Yeah, Paranormal Activity colon Mongoose. They'll reach it eventually in the franchise. I think it's a really weird one. I've written folie à trois here. Actually, there was a second daughter, so it might be quatre. But you know folie à deux, the phenomenon?

I'll explain it badly in case anyone listening doesn't know. It's when somebody who is delusional in some way is able to bring a second person into their madness in a sort of charismatic, likely way. So it's not a deliberate fooling of someone, but it's drawing someone else in so that both people share the same delusion. And once they're separated,

the lower status, weaker personality tends to go back to being able to see the world the way it really is. And that's perhaps a plausible explanation because they didn't. One of the interesting things is that Vori was interviewed for a newspaper many years later as an adult. And unlike like the Cottingley Fairies and unlike the Fox sisters, other famous sort of child mysteries, she said, was real like and leave me alone ruin my life

everyone's always going on about this mongoose yep it was real end of story she reacted exactly as a woman who had been harassed by a talking mongoose would have reacted yes and it's it's it's really hard to see it's it's true james is what basically that's the end of the story is there was a magic talking mongoose who lived for a while there was a chatty mongoose called jeff yeah i've got some direct quotes from the mongoose uh himself are we gonna have to bleep them so here are some quotes i am not a spirit i am a little extra extra clever mongoose i am a ghost in the form of a weasel and i shall haunt you with weird noises and clanking chains. Weasel chains. He doesn't say that, presumably.

Just, I don't, maybe this is for the scoring round, but are mongoose, is mongoose the plural? Or mongooses? I think it's mongooses. Are mongooses native to the Isle of Man? The next quote, James. Oh. Sorry. I'm sorry, James.

Sorry. The next quote would have answered that question. Oh. I was born near Delhi, India on June 7th 1852. I have been shot by the Indians and the Marshmongers. And while mongoise, mongoise,

are not native to the Isle of Man, there are some there that were imported for sort of rodent control. And, yeah. So it is possible that there could have been a mongoise on the Isle of Man in the 40s. And they would have come by ship, so they would have picked up a bit of dockers. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Which explains he's a little bit rough around the edges, exactly. There are pole cats on that. There's a lot of weird animals on the Isle of Man that... Well, the cats don't have tails to begin with. The cats don't have tails. There are pine martins. Yeah. There is a wild wallaby population. What population you just said there's a wild wallaby

there is one wallaby no there's more there's a bunch multiple they escaped the wildlife park and they're doing fine that's the weirdest it's an enclosed space how can you not catch a wallaby on an island well they're just it's a lot of forest it's very it's it's a big place relative to the number of people it's a pretty big very small relative to the massive number of wallabies yeah this is rampant this they they know and everyone thought it was an urban myth and then they caught them on a nature cam getting their own little gopro just smashing the shop yeah you wallabies the red panda escaped recently they're trying to tempt that back in with fruit what i mean in in this context would we be wise to not believe in a talking mongoose no i don't mind that there's an escaped panda on the loose now in 2019 red

red panda it was a normal one that would be harder to hide wouldn't it yeah i'm a freak i have hands and i have feet and if you saw me you'd faint you'd be petrified monified turned to stone or a pillar of salt he sounds like a sort of preacher. Yeah. Oh, yeah. He sounds like a rapper. Oh, yeah. I'll split the aptum. I am the fifth dimension. I am the eighth wonder of the world.

It's very Muhammad Ali, a lot of this. Yeah. I am not evil. I could be if I wanted. You don't know what damage or harm I could do if I were roused. I could kill you all, but I won't. He is spitting bars. I like him. Yeah, it's very sort of grime rap battle uh based on

my knowledge of grime rap battles yeah here on this photo we're not no one will pick it up on that don't worry very much the um i'm trying to decide which grime artist to reference of the two i know i guess they're going to the death threats h I don't know if that's Grime, actually. From Steps. No, no. Oh, there's a second H. A new rapper from Manchester. Well, he's embarrassed himself there, hasn't he? But it's spelled without the H, which is properly how... So it's spelled A-I-T-C-H.

Oh, there is an H in it, yeah. I thought you meant it's spelled as in just like an empty square. Without the H. Huh? Yeah. This one just sounds like your gran. If you knew what I know, you'd know a hell of a lot. Oh, yeah. If you are kind to me, I'll bring you good luck

If you're not kind, I shall kill all your poultry I can get them wherever you put them Which has that sort of household spirit sort of boggart kind of a quality I've been to nicer homes than this Carpets, piano, satin covers on polish tables I'm going back there That's harsh though.

That's getting them. This one sounds like probably a catchphrase. Well, Jim, what about some grubbo? That's quite good, sort of sitcom-y. Yeah, what about some grubbo? And the audience clap like when Robin Williams appears in Mork and Andy. Yeah, people go, Jeff. Nuts, put a sock in it.

Chew Coke. Also more catchphrases. Yeah. I have three attractions. I follow Vorry. Mam gives me food and jim answers my questions i have three spirits and their names are foe faith and truth put the gramophone on those are all the quotes in what i would describe as no particular order i'll link

to where i found all of those in case they were just made up by someone on the internet yes but they oh like they were actually from a different talking monger by the way a lot of those ones yeah yeah yeah that wasn't Winston Churchill that said that oh I'm going to make an inspirational meme put the gramophone on and a picture of a monger it's a superstitious place the Isle of Man

this story would have carried no small amount of weight at the time you think people would have believed it this is the 30s it's the 20th century they would have almost they would have taken it into account i mean we we had a thing my family where um we couldn't we had a bit of a bit of trouble trying to find someone who was willing to cut down a silver birch because of superstition yes um and a friend of ours tried to get some trees cleared from a field so it could be used for agriculture. And the guys came and cleared the wallabies. The guys came and chopped down all the trees,

but they left the silver birch. And the workman actually said, you have to find someone else. We're not going to do it. Really? Yeah. So what is the taboo around the witch trees? It's a witch tree, yeah.

It's a witch tree and the's the witch's sort of spirit supposed to be under it or something and uh you've got the fairy bridge yeah i've heard of that came up in my research yeah and you i believe you have related to potentially this mongoose if he is like one of the helpful ones you've got the now this is a tough word to read finodary oh the finodary yeah finodary who are like helpful things there yeah they're glashens finodaries are like uh they're they're weird they're unusual because they're massive supposedly but they're very sort of shy and easily upset and sensitive they watch farmers working in the fields and they sort of lurk on the hillsides naked oh that's the farmers that's i really like these guys they sound like what's the ginger one from labyrinth yes sort of lurk on the hillsides naked. Oh, that's... I really like these guys.

They sound like... What's the ginger one from Labyrinth? Yes. Oh, yes. Yes, yes. I like him. He's about the size of 75% of a piano belly. That kind of thing, I would say. I remember reading a finottery story somewhere ages ago,

which was a farmer couldn't finish all his ploughing and had to go do something else or go to bed or whatever. And then when he woke up in the morning slash came back, he saw a finottery finish all his plowing and he had to go do something else or go to bed or whatever and then when he woke up in the morning slash came back he saw a finotary finishing up his plowing because they're just like helping and the finotary had obviously seen him not do the whole field and so the finotary is doing all the plowing and the farmer thinks the finotary is doing it you know great what a day and thinks ah and the finotary is all in rags uh and he thinks i know what i'll do i'll go'll go and get some of my old clothes. And I'll give them to the Phonodory as a thank you.

And he does. And the Phonodory is so upset at the idea that his rags are not already lovely clothes that he cries himself to death. Which has got no moral to it. It's a variation, though. A lot of the stories end with the giving of an item of clothing. Like in the North East, there's a helpful spirit with a shock and bad hat. I don't know if we've actually mentioned that in this podcast.

No. And the family go, oh, it's a shock and bad hat. And so they give him a new hat, and then he's gone. Doesn't he say something like, no, I've got a good hat. Screw you all. I'm not doing any more good deeds. Yeah, something like, now I've got a good app, screw you all, I'm not doing any more good deeds? Yeah, something like that. Some people think that this

Phenoderae phenomenon is related to a memory of the prehistoric peoples, like the Neanderthals that would have been there when the Celts first went over to the island. That's one interpretation. Another interpretation is that they're the human form of a seahorse.

Sure. Or a water horse. Probably that one. Yeah, so one of the two. Oh, money's on seahorse. Ferry bridge is still a thing. It's a particular bridge. Well, the bridge you drive over is supposedly not the actual ferry bridge. That's in a glen nearby. But the bridge you drive over, which is now the ferry bridge,

you have to say hello to the fairies going over it or they'll mess you up. Right. You have to greet them and show them proper respect because that's their bit of the territory and you'll hear it on on buses everyone on the bus will say yeah yeah what do they say hello fairies if they if they if they're really traditional you could say uh good morning little people you're not supposed to call them fairies, really. They're little people. It's PC gone mad. Yeah.

Mora mai moinja vega is good morning, little people. And fasta mai moinja vega is good afternoon. I can't remember what good evening is. Better make sure not to travel at night. Yeah, not at night. You've got to be careful. You don't want to go there at night. Stay off the bridge at night. But they always talk about cars breaking down and, don't know a woman laid an egg or something like

just mad mad things happen if you don't greet this four wallabies looking on yeah every as the midwife wallaby midwife pops the air game keeps it keeps it going every visiting comedian to the isle of man will like hear their own cab driver do it and sort of try and construct something around it unaware that it's you of try and construct something around it unaware that it's you know so yeah so pretty well it's so well known that you can't even do a joke about it because no because it's what everyone who comes over tries to do jokes about yeah everyone will say it and you can't say rat when you're on the island that's bad luck to say rat yes it attracts them um you have to say long tail or apparently i read this that it used to be either long tail

or iron fella oh just good that's lovely if someone says rat you have to whistle or touch wood okay like and bad luck generally you really shouldn't have said wallaby all those times this is getting this is pc got mad you can't say anything i'm a bit worried about how many times we've said mongoose now. I know we're not on the island, but still. Lamborghini. So it's time for the scores. James, I'm going to put this to you, because you've got no skin in the game.

No. You've got no hair on the mongoose. No, I've got no aisle in this man. First category, names. Yeah, Jeff. Jeff. What better a name than Jeffff he had several other names the fifth dimension he's definitely i he's definitely a rapper in the cool keith style i like him jeff

jeff the talking mongoose is a good yeah mid 80s rep yeah name notorious g e f yeah and the talking mongooses um jeff the talking mongoose aka the dolby mongoose, a.k.a. The Dolby Spook, Manweasel. Manweasel. Yeah. That's good. Because he's got hands and feet, unlike all mongooses. His front hands were masses.

And that's one of the reasons why the zoological experts were not keen on believing him that the handprints for his front paws were like the size of a dog, whereas the back ones were like the size of a mongoose. Oh, okay. Which explains why he said, you know, I'm a freak. If you saw me, you'd be horrified. I've got hands and feet and I'm a freak. And he was able to throw things around.

Ah. Because of his massive hands. Yeah. Child-sized hands. Yes. Yes, arguably. Potentially. Yeah, maybe the size of a Manx child.

I don't know. I'm not an expert. And he's the very, very intelligent. An extra, extra clever mongoose. Extra, extra clever mongoose, yeah. Well, that part can't be denied. Yeah. Oh, no.

That part's fair enough. The dimensional stuff is hard to improve. We've also got loads of cool names like the Harry Price Library of Magical Literature. And Dawlish Cashin. Dawlish Cashin sounds like someone trying to talk about a specific cartel and a drunk i think it sounds like a lot of these place names it's like very lazy fantasy fiction uh i met you at the siege of dawlish cashin that's exactly the kind of name you can chuck in a game of thrones of dialogue. And it all sounds great.

Speaking of lazy naming, I did look up a little bit about the Isle of Man. And the giant that is the protector of the Isle of Man is called Manaman. Mananan. Oh, Mananan. And he's the son of the sea. Oh, right. I thought it was Manoman. Manaman.

Manoman. That's why when I Googled him, I just kept getting that Muppets song. He was like, did you mean Man O' Man? No, I meant Man O' Man. And then that is just, again, grime slang for a man. Yeah, Mananan Mac Lear, son of Lear, the god of the sea. And he either gave his name to the island or took his name from the island. Hard to say.

So, out of five, James, what's your score for names? I love it when someone gives their pet a very bog standard name. Yeah, like Simon Johnson. Yes, the cat. That's hilarious. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lord Oro. I did like it that my friend, her mum was quite eccentric.

And basically the shortened version of the dog name was Lord Oro. But it was like Lord Oro, the third Viscount of such and such, such and such. Oh, that's good. Yeah. Geoff has won it for me. It's five. It's five for all. Even if it was...

I thought you were going to detract points for Geoff. No, Geoff, that's a brilliant name for a supernatural entity. Great. That's five. I'm going to enter that into the ledger. And I'm pleased that you said supernatural entity because the next category is supernatural. I'm glad that you agree that it's supernatural.

How supernatural be it? Hmm. Yeah. Okay. I assume you're deciding between very and extremely. Well, now it's going to go to an area that I know you're not a fan of in mine. Is it supernatural if it's cryptoz go to an area that i know you're not a fan of in mine it is it supernatural if it's

cryptozoological he's a spirit from the eighth dimension the fifth dimension the fifth dimension he's got sorry he's the eighth wonder of the world he's the eighth wonder of the world yeah come on sorry and the problem is because we have pierre here this is clearly one of the least supernatural things to have happened on the isle of Man. Yeah. Like, you can't cross a bridge without having to tip a fairy who's done nothing for you. On the scale of it, it's one of the most... It's more extortion than tipping, I think, on these fairies. Or little people, sorry. I mean, that's why everyone was so keen on it, because they were so acclimatised to just sort of mad spooks.

This was just a break. It was like watching a Mike Lee film for them. Well, they were just pleased that it could talk and explain itself at least we can ask just having to keep looking askance at every silver birch and it's gonna get you exactly yeah muttering at stumps and and things yeah exactly yeah i suppose you're right that there is there's clearly some real stuff going on like you know like pots and pans got thrown people people heard voices. Perhaps it's all just real. And he said, what was it, I can kill the chickens wherever they are? Yeah.

I'll get your poultry, no matter where you put them. Yeah. Is that an element of manifesting rather than just being really good at going places? Also, the insults as well. I think that made it a little bit too real for them, calling him the fat-headed whatever. Yeah. And he generally bore the brunt of the insults as well i think that made it a little bit too real for them calling him the fat-headed whatever yeah i mean jim really bore the brunt of and when he was started going into like their their upholstery and stuff like that that that was that was almost too much well that's you know

that's some of these rap beefs can get quite tasty he would do very well in the youtube age i think jeff the talking mongoose would have done quite well you're right actually it's a real tragedy it was a very poor 1930s farmhouse with was very poor camera quality. He'd have been cancelled by now. He would have been milkshake ducked long ago. The internet loves Jeff, the talking mongoose. Yeah, it's talking it down for Supernatural for me. I'm going to go with just three. Just three?

Just three, because I've got belief in this mongoose. For the world's only talking mongoose, it's three. The only talking mongoose that has been recorded in the Isle of Man. All right. Okay, fair enough. Three. I mean, okay. It sang pop songs.

Yeah, because it heard them off the radio. It didn't write new ones. Yeah, but ghosts don't listen to the radio and then hum along to it. No, he said turn the gramophone on. That's what it was like. He liked banging tunes. Yeah. He's a party mongoose yes okay the the final category i think this is a really important one and we touched on it in the bit is who benefits because right this won't make sense to pierre but this is not a papa bayliss case this is not a case of someone who has made

up a lie for an obvious reason and then it's got out of hand and they've had to double down on it and continue telling that lie until it became folklore there's no obvious motive for any of the lying and there's also there's no like like you said there's no theme park there's no scooby-doo we pull the mask off uh jeff the mongoose and what's it for and in all behavior, they didn't embrace it. They found it a deeply irritating and life-ruining thing to bear. Yeah, everything we know suggests that they fully believe and that everybody who experienced it fully believed that something was happening.

They didn't try and sell a book. Nothing, nothing. There is a book out now with a very, very naively painted front cover. Oh, really? If you Google it. It's quite nice, but it may... It might be a local publication. I suspect so, yeah.

Because no one often writes about the Isle of Man, there is quite a brisk trade on the island for publishing sort of things, weird books, yeah. I like the way, like, scotland every bookshop has a scottish book section just some scottish books like in england we just put the scottish authors with the other authors but like no do you want the real stuff it's behind the counter yeah yeah we have to put it behind glass in case people try and run out of there with a stevenson novel yeah well on the island there's also just like reminiscences of castletown sort of books and

it's just that's what it is you can just flick through it and go oh it's for people who were children in those photographs to buy literally that's me yes thousand print run that building that's not there anymore that's where i first uh that's where i first had a lavender suite so they always say what's that that's the high street no it also cut to the high street, looks the same. Yeah. So I think, I really think this is a, I think it's a genuine, a genuine mystery. Because I don't know what I think about this.

I'm not saying it's not. Yeah. I'm talking about, because I've seen the hair, James. You have seen some hair. I've seen some hair. It's odd in a way that is itself odd, even for its category. Yes. By the standards of these kind of stories, we haven't met this kind of weird weirdness.

Yeah. It's a Barry Skagans. It doesn't teach a lesson. There's no moral. There's no moral. There's no money. There's no. I think it's odd dad.

I think it's odd dad being odd. As a dad myself. Yeah. I can see, speaking as a father um i can see don't pull that no but you go odd you go weird and like you just he might have just started doing it to amuse those kids and then they got on the phone to the somehow got on the phone to the tabloids but then the voice is still happening when he's out fishing or whatever. Or Captain whatever is going. Captain Les Dennis, yeah.

Captain Les Dennis is there going, I've heard it. Is there a mongoose? That's what's so weird about it. I agree with you. I think it definitely starts out very nicely as Odd Dad. Odd Dad. Like, oh, there's a cheeky ferret in the wall. And he's talking about all this weird

sci-fi stuff but then the rest of it yeah it's quite sci-fi which for a farmhouse in the 30s is a bit odd yeah yeah the what were the pop songs in the 30s are we allowed to i can try and find the are they offensive but that's that thing of like you go okay so the guy does it something and it's like a funny joke and then it evolves into this thing where it's happening when no one's around and he knows about the inside of people's houses and yeah it's just so weird it's so pointless and it's oddness but then that's yes it's a pointless dad the song if you're interested carolina moon was his favorite carolina moon we all love it he also sang them on that so he did like the manx national anthem hymns and fragments of a spanish folk song couldn't be bothered learning all love it. He also sang, on that subject, he did like the Manx National Anthem, hymns and fragments of a Spanish folk song.

Couldn't be bothered learning all of it. Fair enough. Manx National Anthem's quite nice. How's it going? Oh, land of our birth. Oh, gem of God's earth. Oh, island so strong and so fair. Stands as firm as Barul.

Which is a very big, almost a mountain. That's what Barul is. Stands as firm as Barul, which is a very big, almost a mountain. That's what Barul is. Stands as firm as Barul, thy throne of home rule makes us free as thy sweet mountain air. And in the style of a mongoose? An Indian mongoose. It's always quite awkward on the island

because you're supposed to sing, I think, first God save the queen, because the queen is the lord of awkward on the island because you're supposed to sing i think first god save the queen because the queen is the lord of man on the island she's the head of state as it was it's so wrong i think yes well she bought it from sorrow i see um and they were both betrayed so everyone has to go and it's inevitably like some people Manx Nationalists won't stand for it they'll stay seated but inevitably the Manx National Anthem

is absolutely belted out a tremendous volume immediately following a very hushed rendition of the so it's like the Noddy Holder

It's Christmas one is the one everyone really likes so everyone's there for that one forget about away in a manger nonsense

war is over and there we go here's the bangers wizard yeah exactly on a side note just something for you both

to enjoy and the listeners please do look up the version of so here it is Merry Christmas that one by Slade someone's done a version

on YouTube which is every line is are you hanging up your stockings on the wall all of it but it's perfect. So, who benefits is the category?

Jeff. Jeff always wins. Jeff always wins. Yeah. We don't know. Are you about to deviate from the format of the show and refuse to score it because it is such a mystery? I think so. It's a question mark.

A question mark? Wow, this doesn't mean much to you, but this has never happened before. because it is such a mystery. I think so. It's a question mark. A question mark? It's a mystery. Wow. This is, I mean, this doesn't mean much to you, but this has never happened before. This is a big constitutional crisis. Easily about 16 or 17 episodes over a period of nine years,

I think, we've been making this podcast. It takes a lot of time to do the research. Yeah. Okay. So, who benefits? When we bring out

the top-top set, this will be, that'll be a winner. It'll be like the Joker card if you've got Jeff the Talking Mongoose. I've scratched the question mark in with shaky hand in octopus ink on a quill and now I'm going to close the book.

Why did you close the book for? You fucking know. Read it. You have been listening to Lawmen with me, Alistair Pickett-King and... James Shakeshaft. As well as guest lawperson, Pierre Novelli. Next week is Christmasmastime. I know.

So we're going to talk about the various little things that happen around Christmastime in the world of law. Mm-hmm. Folklore and... Thank you for clarifying. That's it. That's it. The end of time. © BF-WATCH TV 2021