Loremen Podcast - S3 Ep10: Loremen S3 Ep10 - Michael Legge - Finn McCool

Episode Date: February 27, 2020

Comedian and podcaster Michael Legge (you know - off Do The Right Thing) joins the Loremen to tell us about the Irish legend of Fionn mac Cumhail - aka - Finn McCool.    We learn why it is big and clever to act like a massive baby, which is useful. Plus who was the more famous 7Up logo, Fido Dido or Cool Spot? AND which character from the extended Back To The Future universe James's wife thinks he is the most like. @loremenpod www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod @JamesShakeshaft | @MisterABK | @michaellegge 

Escape your busy day. Prioritize your well-being at Elmwood Spa, your out-of-office oasis. At Elmwood Spa, you can indulge in water therapies, rejuvenating facials, soothing massages, and savor a gourmet meal. The possibilities are endless. For over 40 years, Elmwood Spa has been Toronto's premier day spa, offering exceptional service and care. Visit elmwoodspa.com to learn more. Relaxation awaits. Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm Alistair Beckett-King. And I'm James Shakeshaft.

And in this episode, we're joined by the comedian Michael Legg to talk about the legend of Finn McCool. So cool. He is quite cool. He's really cool. Hello, James. Hello. Can I introduce to you a deputy law person who I, unbeknownst to you, sneaked into the recording space? Yes, certainly.

Well, open your eyes. Oh. It's Michael Legg. Oh, hello, Michael Legg. Hi. Hi, guys. How are you? I'm good.

How are you? Really good. It's nice being in this room. It's a very cosy room. It is cosy. And it's very, very quiet, considering the weather and the people out there. There is a storm outside. And people.

And people inside. I mean, come on. People with an internal storm, each and every one of them. And listeners probably know Michael from Do The Right Thing podcast. Yeah, I did that. Comedy Central's alternative comedy experience. Yeah, I did do that. I mean, it was a million years ago, but I did it.

Did it. So you can't say I didn't do it. You did do it. It's on record. Did someone record it? Yeah, they recorded it. Not my bits, but the other bits. And you challenged stereotypes by being sort of an angry Northern Irish man. Yep, that's quite a challenge to that stereotype, absolutely.

And how are you, first of all? Really good. It's really nice to be here in this beautiful venue. I've got such a soft spot for this venue. And when I walked in, I was welcomed, wasn't I? I was welcomed with open arms by Barry at the Bill Murray. Oh yes, for listeners who might not be aware we're in the bill murray yes and he he offered me tea and i said no and then he gave me a bath of tea it is a sports direct mug of tea which is gigantic it's big enough to have sports direct in a very large font i mean that's where i go for my crockery

yeah sports direct oh yeah i'm not not a typefaceographer but I would say that is 0.72 minimum oh yeah definitely maybe even 110 on the sports is it bold Alistair? oh it's bold it's bold oblique I would say ever so bold

the thing is if I drink all of this tea I mean I will be absolutely bursting but the good thing is it's huge, this cup. And that's the Sports Direct way! It giveth and it taketh away. It's so big, it could have http://www.sportsdirect.com on it. Yeah, and still be readable from afar. So in this podcast,

where we discuss obscure curiosities from history and local legends, that's not the way we normally say it, I've asked you to bring it because you are from Northern Ireland. I am from Northern Ireland. And because neither of us know anything about Northern Irish slash Irish politics slash history slash folklore, and the last thing we want to do is upset those people because they seem quite touchy.

We thought the most reasonable thing to do would be to invite you along to tell us a story. To get an expert in. To get an expert. Yeah. So what piece of folklore are you going to apply your expertise to? Well, I mean, what do you really want to know about? Do you want to know about Irish history? Do you want to know about Irish politics?

Do you want to know about Irish folklore? I think it's folklore. Let's go. I was really glad about that because I know nothing of all three. But if I knew anything, it would be the third one. And so we've invited you along, Michael, to tell us a little bit about the story of Finn McCool.

Finn McCool? Yeah. Not Phil Cool. No. Which is a shame because that's also a great story. Great. Oh, the legend of working in the embassy club in Manchester. Vernon Manning.

Is he like the Irish Fido Dido? I don't know what Fido Dido. I mean, I've heard of Fido Dido, but, you know, it's never crossed my mind to find out what Fido Dido is. Yeah, it's one of those noises that is in my head as well. Fido Dido, he was a stable mate of the Cool Spot in that they were both sort of personifications of the 7-Up brand. Oh, right.

Did they work together or did Cool Spot regenerate into Fido Dido? I think Cool Spot probably undercut Fido Dido and got him ousted, basically. Or Fido Dido had a few skeletons in his animated cupboard. But Fido Dido was, yeah, he was the coolest thing. If he had a name that wasn't Fido Dido, it would be Finn McCool. Oh sure. Because that's the coolest

name. I realised, I have heard of Finn McCool before today. Right. And I realised only when researching it that I have always visualised Marty McFly from Back to the Future as Finn McCool. But in reading into it, he doesn't fit the description at all. Michael J. Fox is quite short. He's very short.

And Finn McCool's quite tall. Well, according to my reading, he was so large that when he was in his house, his feet stuck out the door. But the house was small. Yeah, that could just be a small house. That's exactly what Westwood and Kingsall say. We don't know how big the house was. But whatever size it is, unless he was renting in London, it's impressive.

So what happened, Ward? This is the story that I know of Finn McCall. Not Phil McCall. Not at all. A few stories there. A few stories there. But Finn was a large fella, very foreboding, but somewhat kind. Like, I guess if you were a wolf, he probably wasn't that kind to you

because he went around throttling a lot of wolves and then eating them. Not a lovely vegan like us. No, not lovely vegan. James isn't a vegan. You'll enjoy eating a wolf. Yeah, I'd throttle a wolf and then eat it, sure. Yeah, sure. Well, then you're going to love this guy.

Although he's not as brave as he sounds. Because, I mean, going around throttling a wolf, I would say that takes balls. Right? This guy is not all he's cracked up to be. Because there's a giant that hears, hears tell. That's how you tell stories in the old way. He hears tell of the wonder that is Finn McCool. Finn McCool, by the way, is making a walkway from Ireland to Scotland

because in the old days there was no walkway like there is now. Or ferry probably. There was no ferry or plane or anything like that. You had to swim if you wanted to get to Scotland, which probably would have been fine for Finn McCool but not for everyone. It's not for everyone. It's not for everyone. It's not for everyone, is it? Him and David Walliams and no one else could have done it, right?

So he built the Giant's Causeway, which of course stretches from Northern Ireland via a Led Zeppelin album cover all the way to Scotland, right? And while making this, someone comes along and just goes, listen, this giant whose name I can't remember, right and while making this someone comes along and just goes listen

this giant whose name I can't remember Brennan and Nymphin let's call him Brennan and Nymphin I think I think it means

the red man or the big red man the big red man but probably in Scots or Irish Gaelic I mean that could be anyone over there right

that could be anyone that's what homeless guys call me when I'm walking around anywhere hey big red man yes a quid. But imagine if that is your name in Scotland, Big Red Man. But there's loads of them.

Oh, yeah, Big Red Man. But imagine if you're a really big... Then you'd be known as Big Big Red Man. So I reckon it is Big Big Red Man because he's a giant. And he's gone, oh, he thinks he's all that, does he? Going around killing wolves. I don't think he's animal rights or anything. I think he's just a hard nut.

I mean, as annoying as vegans are, giant vegans would be the worst. I think of myself as a giant vegan. I'm trapped in a much smaller man. And he would eat ten Greg sausage rolls at a go. Yeah, so he goes, so Fim call hears about this giant. He goes, listen, I'm hard as nails, but there's a line. So what he does is he goes to his house, which as we know,

he can't quite fit into. He tells his wife, listen, this giant's coming. I'm going to get my head kicked in. And she comes up with a brilliant idea because she's a very, he wouldn't marry an idiot. This guy is a top-notch dude. So he's not going to marry an idiot. She's a smart woman.

She's Mrs McCool. She's Mrs McCool. Una McCool. Una. You're right, Una. You're right. Have you had the McCools over? You must have them over.

Do you know the McCools? Yeah. No, it's a vegan wolf. Oh, God. No, he's a little big, yeah, so we kept him in the garden. We have a porch. Yeah. Does that help?

Oh, his feet are sticking out the conservatory. So she comes up with this brilliant idea. Why don't you dress up as a baby? A lot of men are into that. We can't knock him for it. If that's what you're saying, just do it. And you dress up as a baby, and when the giant comes around, I'll say you've popped out, and I'm just looking after our baby,

and that's how big you are because look giant knocks on Thor and oh he's not in but come in and I'll make you some sort of let's call it potato bread or some sort of bread that you make on a skillet and he tries to intimidate

Una by sitting there waiting on Finn McCullough so he grabs rocks and just crushes them with his fingers, with his thumb and forefinger, just crushing them. But she's not intimidated because she's a smart woman. She's cooking in the kitchen, but she's sneaking something into one of those potato bread cakes. She slips in an actual iron griddle into one of the cakes.

But she's making a whole batch of them. And she gives him his cake, and he just goes, yeah, I'm a giant, I'm hard as nails, look at this rock, I've just squeezed it. And then he bites in to this one potato bread cake that has that iron griddle, and of course it's teeth chip. And he goes, oh, really? Because that

seems a bit weak, because Finn eats these all the time. Anyway, I'll just give one to the baby and the baby, it's not a baby, the baby eats it in one gulp, dead easy, and that's when the giant goes, do you know what? I'll leave this and he f***s off back to Scotland. What a lovely story.

Very clever. That is but one of the stories of Finn and the call. Oh, absolutely. That's a story. That's just the baby dressing up story. That's just the baby. but one of the stories of oh absolutely that's that's a story that's just the baby that's just the baby another version of the same story has a there's a series of those sort of things where she says um oh she's got like a big rock on the end of a pine tree and she says oh well that's his spear so it's a series of incredibly large things building up to him being in some versions of it in the bath covered in a sheet pretending to be a baby in a oh i don't remember that

I don't remember that and she gets like four Kit Kat Chunkies and sticks them together like this is his Kit Kat normal size one I know that would make him look small actually

it would make him look small she gets a Kit Kat Chunky yeah she gets a Kit Kat and says it's Kit Kat Chunky in his hands that's how you'd do it right no it's the other way around

gets a Kit Kat Chunky and says that's a Kit Kat in his hand right but then he'd look small then he'd look small. Then he'd look small. If anything, we want a mini Kit Kat. Oh, I see what you're saying.

Yeah. To hold. Yeah. It's very... Just as well we weren't in charge back then. Yeah. Because storytelling and the passing down of those stories

is really hard. Yeah. Oral tradition. I mean, if we had been back then, let me tell you the story of Finn McCoy, he would not have survived. What sort of Kit Kat was he? He had a tiny Kit Kat.

I don't want to suggest that the baby thing was a pattern, but he also was once charged by a druid called Finnegan to go and catch the salmon of knowledge, which he did. And he brought it back. That's not real, the salmon of knowledge.

Sorry, I said it in the wrong way. The salmon of knowledge. Yeah. So he went to get that and he brought it back. No, that's not real, the salmon of knowledge. Sorry, I said it in the wrong way. The salmon of knowledge. Yeah. So he went to get that and he brought it back and he was cooking it for the druid and he burnt his thumb. So he sucked his thumb like a baby would and immediately gained the knowledge of the salmon of knowledge. And so whenever he needed wisdom, he would just suck his thumb. That's what it said.

And I didn't connect it to the dressing up as a baby story until you said that but there's a pattern emerging yeah he's got an infantilism thing like he did have fights with

you know giants he was a big man like really really big like bigger than a big man I don't know what's the biggest meaning thing

of like Stephen Merchant he's bigger than him bigger than Stephen Merchant Andre the Giant like he's bigger than Andre the Giant so thing of like Stephen Merchant? He's bigger than him. Bigger than Stephen Merchant. Andre the Giant. Like he's bigger than Andre the Giant. So he's like a medium Big Red Man. Like he's, yeah, he'd be like a Ronnie Barker. Big Red Man's, you know, Ronnie Corbyn.

No, he'd be Ronnie Corbyn. It's so confusing. He'd be a Kit Kat to a Kit Kat Chunky all over again. It's so confusing. He'd be a Kit Kat to a Kit Kat Chunky. I guess so. There we go. Or, yeah be a Kit Kat to a Kit Kat chunky. I guess so. There we go. Yeah.

A Toblerone to a holiday Toblerone. Old school pre-Brexit Toblerone we're talking. Yeah because

we don't know when this might have gone out before. We might not ever have Toblerone ever again.

Oh God. Yeah. You've just put a human face on this whole thing for me. Well there you go. I hadn't thought

of that. Wait a minute Switzerland it's Swiss. Surely we've got to have a special trade deal. Yeah, that's true. Just for clocks and triangular chocolates, if nothing else. Honestly, I thought they'd say, how the f*** have rainbow drops survived?

Like, how has that beaten so many industries? Coal, the car manufacturing, and rainbow drops have survived. The Swizzle factory. That's insane. Can you still get Sherbet Fountains? Are they still around for the kids? Or is it all YouTube these days? Snapchat?

Dib Dabs. Dib Dabs and TikTok took over. I never liked Dib Dabs. I loved Dib Dab because I didn't really like licorice. I liked the licorice one. You could use the lollipop as a spoon and just basically spoon sherbet straight into your face. I didn't really understand how that works. We didn't have these sweets growing up.

We just had some sticks covered in sugar. And do you know what? Sugar sticks? Yeah, we're happy to get them. We're happy to get them. They're lovely. Finn McCool had white hair, which apparently his name implies.

So the place where he was the leader of the Fianna. Oh, and I'm so sorry about that. Theana 4? What? I'm really sorry about all the pronunciations of any Irish words that I try and say. Sure. I'm not so good at them myself, so don't worry about it. Good.

So they live in a place called Ballyfin, which either means the town of him or it means the white town. The story is that he got the name Finn because he was walking along and he saw a beautiful woman crying by the side of a pool and she'd lost a gold coin in the pool. So like the hero that he is, he dived in, probably only up to his neck because he's massive. Right.

He got the coin and he brought it out. But when he came out, he'd been transformed into an old man. It was a trap. And when he went back to the village, nobody apart from his dogs recognized him. But luckily the dogs did recognize him. Right.

And the Fianna forced her to turn him back into a young man again, but his hair stayed white forever. Like Doc Brown. Or Steve Martin. Or Steve Martin. Well, he's been very much romanticised then because the version of Finn McCall that we, I like to think of we right

here, that we, the Belfast Giants ice hockey team, that's we, he says with a Sports Direct mug, he's blonde. He's blonde. Beautiful blonde hair. He is the logo of the Belfast Giants

ice hockey team. And I don't know who's in the team anymore. I saw them many years ago. I went through a very brief phase of thinking that I liked ice hockey. Let me tell you, I don't. I've them many years ago. I went through a very brief phase of thinking that I liked ice hockey. Let me tell you, I don't. I've got no interest. But I did find it fun going

to the London Arena, which no longer exists, that is now in folklore, to watch Belfast Giants versus London... I can't remember what the London team is called. The London Craps. That's what we call them. And one of the Belfast players was called Jerry Adams. I don't remember what the London team was called. The London Craps. That's what we called them. And one of the Belfast players was called Jerry Adams. Go on, have a go at him.

Have a go. It's a famously violent sport. Let's say have a go at Jerry Adams. His post-match interview was... Oh, absolutely. It took a while. It took a while to get that re-dubbed. Yeah, one of the other team had to do it.

There's a weird semi-Scottish sidebar. May I introduce it? These stories were recorded by Finn's son, Oisin. Oisin. Oisin, sorry. Oisin, not Oisin. That's all right. It's probably the only one I'll get today,

so that's good. Thank you. As soon as I read that, I thought, oh, like Ossian the Bard, and so I had to go and research Ossian the Bard. Have you heard of Ossian the Bard? I don't think so, no. Well, I assumed same person, same person. And no. In 1762, a Scottish writer called James McPherson discovered the writings and translated the

writings of Ossian the Bard, who became known as a sort of Homer of the North, sort of epic Gallic Scottish mythologies that were hitherto completely unknown. And recent AI analysis of those stories has demonstrated that they're just the stories of Finn McCool with the names changed. Oh, right. And so James McPherson basically just read the Fenian cycle or the Ossian cycle and then rewrote the stories. But the way they worked it out was that the characters' relationships, like someone begatting someone and then someone betraying or kidnapping someone, that all stayed the same, but he rewrote all of the rest of it and changed all of the names.

So he created a fake Scottish mythology based on, I was going to use the word real, but let's not go too far, real Irish folklore. Sure. One more point in the Scottish sidebar is that the Giant's Causeway goes towards the Isle of Staffa, where they have a place called Fingal's Cave, and Fingal is their name for Finn McCool. And it's a tiny slit in the rock, but when you go in, it's 60 feet deep, so he could comfortably have stood up in there. Can I just say I'm really glad I chose Finn McCool, because I'm enjoying this immeasurably.

Fingal is not as a cooler name as Finn McCool, though. Fingal, no. Maybe that's why they called it that. Yeah. Yeah,urably. Fingal is not as a cooler name as Finn McCool, though. Fingal, no. Maybe that's why they called it that. Yeah, we call him Fingal. It's got a bit of a thingy quality to it, like you can't really remember. He's no big red man. By the way, did you, James,

when he said Homer of the North, did you go, yeah, doh? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I went, yeah, yeah. But I was thinking, how can I put that in a Northern accent? It's very difficult. Or doh. Yeah, yeah. Doh. Yeah. dough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I went dough. Yeah, yeah. But I was thinking, how can I put that in a northern accent? It's very difficult. Oh, door.

Yeah, yeah. Door. Yeah. Yeah. So he basically took the story, it's basically Force Awakens to Star Wars Episode IV. Exactly. It's exactly that.

He's J.J. Abrams. Right. Obsidian the North. Ossie and the Bard. Ossie and the Bard. But he isn't a real person. Right. He's, yes, just a sheen.

He's a cleverly rebranded a sheen for the Scottish market. Do you know the story then, and I'm pretty sure it's Finn McCall, where he has a fight with an English giant? Do you know about this? Is this the guy with the massive axe, or is it a different giant? Because he fought a lot of giants, James. Right. I imagine he had a bowler hat and an umbrella.

That's how I imagined him. I can't remember. I wasn't there, so I'm not going to gossip. But apparently during this fight, Finn McCall just put his hands into the ground in Ireland and flung a piece of ground, but missed England and it landed in the sea. And that is how Loch Nye in Northern Ireland was made

and how the Isle of Man between North and Ireland. And that did happen. That's on YouTube. Yeah, because both the Loch and the Isle of Man do exist. How else did it get there? Yeah. Has anyone got any better ideas? No.

Case closed. We don't normally say case closed at the same time, but that means the podcast's over. Yeah, the case is now actually closed. The curse has been lifted and we don't have say case closed at the same time, but that means the podcast's over. Yeah, the case is now actually closed. The curse has been lifted, and we don't have to do this anymore. Unfortunately, Michael, you are now cursed to run the podcast. It's like it followed.

Oh, no. The big axe guy, known as the Knight of the Full Axe, was yet another, sort of the fourth or fifth giant he had to fight, whose axe was seven acres across the blade. Absolutely massive. So it made Finn McCool look like a small red man. He's the small big red man. Yeah, I don't know what he would be in Kit Kats, but small.

He would be Ronnie Barker to John Cleese on the Frosted Court sketch. So it's a big difference. Corbett, Corbett, let's stop getting our Ronnies wrong. I'm sorry, Ronnie Corbett to John Cleese. We're getting the wrong Ronnies. And even John Cleese,

that's not his name. John Cheese. Oh yeah. It's a nightmare, this thing. My wife never believed me. I think she still doesn't believe me

that John Cleese's real name was John Cheese. No, it's a real first name, it's Cheese. It's real name is Cheese Cleese. It's Cheese.

John Cleese. Cheese Cleese. Who should we get in for this? Cheese Cleese, please. But what are the fees? This story goes that McCool was on his little conical, I think it's called, little boat. Coracle. It was a long Irish's called, little boat. Coracle. It was a long Irish word that looked a bit like coracle,

but it's not got an R in it. Let's say small boat. Oh, yeah. He kicked it out into the Irish Sea. It went about a mile out, and he just hopped into it, obviously, as he normally would. And then saw a giant wading into the sea from the other side, barely coming up to his ankles.

An absolutely massive giant this time. He confronted him, and Finn said finn said okay i'll fight you but let's make it fair i'm not on the land so the giant dragged him toward the land they got into a big fight he pulled his sword the giant pulls his seven acre size axe but it's like the original boss battle as they describe it because he keeps swinging and swinging and swinging every so often he gets his axe stuck in the ground which gives gives Finn a chance to run round the back and get some hits in with the sword. Where there's the glowing red bit. Yeah, exactly. And then the giant's like,

same sound effect each time. And then he pulls his axe out and it continues. Three times. Yeah, you get about three. And each time he manages to cut more, he's basically cutting, it's quite horrible, steps into the back of the giant. So, after a little while, he's able to climb up the giant's back on the steps he's basically cutting, it's quite horrible, steps into the back of the giant. So after a little while, he's able to climb up the giant's back on the steps he's cut,

whaps his head right off. Whoa. Yeah, the giant's dead, but he's been seriously injured and his entrails are loose. But the 12 princesses who were kidnapped by that giant come and tend to him. And he just says, just pop me in the boat. It'll take me back to Ireland. Just get me there. And they do that that and as he's sailing across i don't know how to explain this bit a crow flies down and pecks at his entrails horrible but then transforms into a druid who explains that he had been cursed to be a crow until he had five bites of fat from

finn mccool's entrails and so he'd been following him around every single day up until that moment and now he was able to use his druidic powers to heal Finn McCool. I guess that's worth it. Yeah but it was not really set up early in the story. I feel like if that was a film

you'd need to mention that before he conveniently appeared. Also if I was Finn McCool I'd still not get over that for a while. I'd still go, that was odd. That was a really, what a queer thing to happen. Like, you know. I feel like, yeah, I don't think a long-term friendship would be formed between you and the guy who had

eaten a little bit of you. But he'd saved your life. Yeah, that's why it's difficult to change. Yeah, I mean, yeah, quite the quandary. Arlen must have really stunk in those days, like, with dead giants. And with Yeah, I mean, yeah, quite the quandary. Arnold must have really stunk in those days, like with the dead giants. And with his loose bowels. Yeah.

I was looking at my notes to see if I had any more Finn McCool-related stories. All I've got is names of parts of the Giants' causeway. Do you want to hear them? Yes. Oh, sure. The Giants' theatre. The Giants' pulpit.

The Giants' bagpipes. And the Giants' granny. Yeah, nice. I did not know any of that. Does it really go all... It doesn't really go all the way. The idea is that it did, and I think Finn McCool might have smashed it at some point. But did you know, and I literally read this in the news today, that the Prime Minister

at the time of recording, Boris Johnson, is planning a bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland because he's mad. Because of his white hair. of recording, Boris Johnson, is planning a bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland. Because he's mad. Because of his white hair. He's Finn McCool. He is not McCool. He's Finn Mc... Yes! Yes!

A little bit of political comedy there. I liked it, yeah. We're going to bleep all of those so no one will know what witticisms you're making. It's just going to be Finn McBleep. That's alright. Well, Finn McBleep's alright. Yeah. He is a Finn McBleep. So it's time for the scores now.

Okay. And bear in mind, the history of our country and Northern Ireland, James, just think about that while you're giving scores, okay? Yeah, okay. Well, chill?

Yeah, it's been pretty laid back for a while now. Okay. The first category is names. Slash naming. Yeah. We've never decided what the name of that category is, ironically. Yeah, well, Phil... Phil Cool.

Phil McCool, 5 out of 5. It's got to be. That's the best name. That sounds like a mod. If Phil McCool was at your school... He would rule. Yes, definitely. Without a doubt. He would have a leather jacket. Or faux leather.

Pleather. Or pleather jacket. I still see it. I'm still seeing him wearing the body warmer from Back to the Future. I can't not see him as a very large Michael J. Fox. What's with the life preserver? Yeah. Why is he wearing that? Why is he wearing that?

I think he jumped ship. That's from the film. It's my favourite film. I know the script off by heart. So is there a script reason why he's wearing a life preserver? Or is it just fashion? No, it's fashion in the 80s, but then it's referenced by everyone in the 50s. Oh, very good. script reason why he's wearing a life preserver or is it just fashion? No, it's fashion in the 80s but then it's referenced

by everyone in the 50s as why he's out of time. They were known as Mork jackets. Like Mork and Mindy? From Mork and Mindy. From Happy Days. Yes, from Happy Days.

That's exactly. So he wore one and there is a name for that jacket but I don't know. It's just called a body warmer I think. A body warmer

but there is another name for it. Not like a gilet. It's like a budget gilet. Oh, maybe that is what I'm thinking of. But anyway, they're more jackets as far as I'm concerned. Michael J. Fox was my absolute hero when I was a kid. I did everything to look and be like him.

Except not grow to six foot three tall. Yeah, that did happen. I used to always want to be Michael J. Fox. And then I realised that I'd become the Doc. That's the ageing process. Look, you either die as Michael J. Fox or you live to see yourself become the Doc. Well, I shared that, I think, bit of truth,

life truth with my wife and she said, no, you're not the Doc. You're like the old Marty McFly from Back to the Future 2 whose dreams are all crushed. So you are Michael J. Fox. Yeah, at least. Got two ties.

Well, I've been writing saying that's a five out of five for names. Oh, definitely. Are there out of interest... Well, you chucked in a few little bonus ones at the end.

It wasn't really necessary. We've got... The stations of the Giant's Causeway. Yeah. I have a very brief little folklore tale that's got a guy with a brilliant name.

Oh, yeah. Right. Well, it's about the giant Cahullan, which I think is already... That's just Colin with a little... Yeah, Colin. It's Colin. The giant Colin.

He was basically... Someone sent a message to him, said, listen, the biggest guy on the planet... ...is... Yes, a bigger Colin, is terrorising our town. He's going to come back. He's massive and we need some help. And Colin just went, well, I am the wolf of Ulster, so I better stick with that. So he went to this town knowing that this really big giant was, Big Steve, was on his way, hid in a forest, and he heard him stomping through the forest on his way to the town. And that is when Cullin sprang out, ripped a tree from the ground,

and shoved it right into this giant's mouth. So he choked on it, and it came out, basically, his back end. Wow. And I can't remember the actual Irish name of this giant. It's not Big Steve. Steve. But I can always remember the translation of it. It translates as the man with a paw sticking out of his...

So there you go. Yeah, I mean, six out of five now. Six out of five, yes. All right, the next category is supernatural. Now, this is, yeah. Just to make you aware, Michael, James is a hard taskmaster and he doesn't accept, unless it's got ghosts in it,

he never considers it to be supernatural. Even though we've got a magic crow. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a druid? There's a druid who magically makes someone who had a curse. That's good. Yeah, we've got the cursed ring in the pond. We've got magic white hair.

Yeah, it gets turned into an old man, yeah. The white hair. All the wisdom of a salmon. He's more Doc than Marty, by the way. We know. He is Doc. We know how the Giant's Causeway was built. Yes.

So, I mean, it's not supernatural to tell a lie. Yeah, I mean, it's got a decent amount of supernatural... naturalness. Supernature. Supernature. Supernature. But I think it is not going to go past a four. Until we're talking ghosts.

I actually think that's fine. If there was a load of giants, this is quite feasible. If you did stick a tree in someone's mouth, it's going to have to come out the end. Yeah. So you're saying it's too realistic for you to give us a word? Yeah, this is more like...

This definitely could have happened. This is like kitchen sink folklore. Yeah. Gritty Ken Loach folklore. Yeah. All right. Next category, size. Oh, that's a... Yeah, that's a big one. yeah alright next category size oh that's a

yeah that's a big one can you think of any other stories that have had as much size as this well I mean the giants

of Jenny's Valentine's story yeah but they were small literally small fry by comparison well there was no house that can contain

Bryn the Blessed but apart from that actually an Irish an Irish man built it. That might have been the same house that Finn McCool then stood him and he was too big for.

And then the other giants were even bigger than him. Way big because Big Red Man, the biggest Big Red Man, biggest and reddest. You know Clifford the Big Red Dog? It was probably his dog. Whoa, yeah. I just saw a picture of Clifford the Big Red Dog? It was probably his dog. Whoa. Yeah. I just saw a picture of Clifford the Big Red Dog

for the first time in about 15 years. How does he look these days? I mean... You would not believe. He has to be dead. He has to be dead. It's just the heart. Yeah, it goes.

You know what Irish wolfhounds are like. Well, think about... Exactly, because the big of the dog... Oh, they do not last long. I don't actually remember Clifford the Big Red Dog from my childhood. I remember when I was at university. Okay.

It was on kids' TV. Okay, great. But I look back and it's just like, it's too big. Yeah, it's simply not practical. Yeah, how can they come up with any plots? Do you know what? Technically, you just wouldn't be...

It's a really tragic story. You wouldn't be allowed to keep that dog. No. It would be put down. It's a tragic, tragic story you wouldn't be allowed to keep that dog and it would be put down it's a tragic tragic story but for in memoriam

thank you of Clifford the Big Red Dog I'm going to go for a 5 for size a 5 really yeah I think it's it's a

quintuple XL for this yeah for this guy size 5 points yeah but then we're getting

Latin wait I've just I've just realised now that the XL measurement on clothes is not Latin for 11. I thought it was 11. No, it's 40, isn't it? It's extra large.

That would be 40. So double XL is 30. So it's actually getting smaller. What? 5 out of 5. 5 out of 5. Well, I don't. What? Five out of five. Five out of five. Well, I don't know how to phrase the final category. Okay. Well, a lot of written is

there was quite a lot of dressing up as a baby in the story. Yes. This does have a name. There's a particular fetish, I believe, that Channel 5 have made many documentaries about. The question is, can you score it without actually thinking about it? That's the challenge that you're experiencing.

I don't think he was into it. He was just, he was like I'm being and also it wasn't his idea. Yeah, I think it's his wife who was into it, really. And maybe that's how they sort of introduced it, weren't you? Yeah. Well, look,

I feel that if I were to give it any less than a five, it would be considered some sort of hate crime. Yeah, let's not shame him. Yeah, I'm not shaming him. I'm just wondering, it's a very clever trick to be like, right, okay, someone's coming for me. I'm going to dress up as a baby. My own giant baby.

To pretend to be my own giant baby, to imply that I'm quite big. That obviously only works in a world where giants exist. To anyone listening, and the bailiffs are coming around, that's not going to work. Give it a go! Actually, you know what, yeah. And while you're at it, stick some iron in your potato cakes. The defendant was dressed as a giant

baby. Of course, I immediately saw through his disguise. They trained it in this sort of thing. Yeah. The bailiffs. It's short for baby lifters, isn't it? Look, hang on. My back doesn't normally hurt this much.

This baby is bearded. But it has white hair. And they sometimes do babies. Have white hair? Yeah. What? If you've thrown them in a lake. Have white hair? Yeah. What? Like the little freaky ones. If you've thrown them in a lake to get a coin. Yeah.

What do you mean by the little freaky ones? The what? You know, the baby of the corn. The toddlers of the corn. I've been to a lot of baby groups and you do, you get some like pretty freaky looking ones. i have a couple of babies

myself yeah yeah but yours are yours are very attractive i mean a normal amount yeah and not they've got dark hair they're not freakish no like like all blonde people but in the this is you attend there are some really ugly babies so let's dig into that. Yeah. How ugly and what are their names? It's the ones that, I think, their eyes are too big and they've got clips. The mums have put clips, or dads, have put clips in their hair, but their hair is more than... Are they connected to a car battery? That's terrible. I mean, they're ugly, but that's not going to help.

Yeah, that is unconscionable, really. Yeah, that can't be. Wait a minute. What else does he do? He sucks his thumb. He sucks his thumb to gain the wisdom of a salmon. Oh, yeah, the old smart salmon. Salmon of knowledge.

Salmon of knowledge. The S-O-K. Sort of old school Google. Yeah, yeah. Just sucking your thumb. What was the name of the guy who plays Martin McFly's dad in Back to the Future? Give you some little...

Crispin Glover. There you go. In the first one, priced himself out of the seconds because he refused to do a sequel. See, not in the second one. I just watched them. They totally imply that he is because they reuse footage where he's in

and they get a lookalike in. Yeah, the upside-down guy is a lookalike. They found him at Universal Studios playing Stan Laurel, I believe. Right. And that scene where he's upside down is the scene that a lot of YouTube videos will say predicts 9-11.

You're going to have to search for that yourself. It's about time travel, so they know. Yeah, exactly. But he only does two things as a baby, right? Were there any other baby-related... No, there are just two things. Halloween? Anything like that? But he gets away two things as a baby, right? Were there any other baby-related... No, there are just two things. Halloween? Anything like that?

But he gets away with both things as a baby. And we know he's not just a fully grown man. He's a big fully grown man. And he gets away with two pretending to be a baby things. Two baby scenarios. But I think if you're a giant man from Northern Ireland who throttles wolves and stuff, and you start telling people you're a baby,

I think they're going to go, yeah, all right. Whatever you say. Yeah, he's a baby. He's a wonderful actor. Oh, like the Daniel Day-Lewis. Yes. Yeah. Of the giant land.

Do you reckon Daniel Day-Lewis could play a baby, convincingly? Like if they did a live-action boss baby? Or a train spotting. He did play the baby in Train Spotting. Yeah, convincing me. Like if they did a live action boss baby. Or a train spotting. He did play the baby in Train Spotting. Very good. I thought it was circus. I thought it was Andy Serkis. I'm going to say three.

Three? Yeah. That's a little bit disappointing. Because we've got two instances of babyness, and he gets a bonus point for being quite good at it. But what, bring me more, don't, but bring me more examples

of him being a baby and there's going to be more points going around. You give it one go, dress up as a baby and if anyone goes, yeah, baby, then I'll accept a three.

This baby must have a big dad. Yeah. With an even bigger beard. Yeah. I'm genuinely upset. Why? That we only got three on that one. Alistair. Oh, someone's in trouble.

He only really acts as a baby once. Yeah. And the other time he sucks his thumb. I'm not budging from three. Thank you. Alright, it's three. I'll enter that in the ledger. I'll do the sound of it closing. That just sounded like a loud bang. That was the story of Finn McCool

Thank you very much Michael Thank you Thank you for coming on the podcast It was an absolute pleasure It was really good fun And thank you for listening Yeah Yeah

I mean you know sure Whatever Yeah. I mean, you know, sure. Whatever. That was a great story. Did you enjoy it, James? I loved it. It seemed like you were enjoying it. Speaking of cool, Michael Legg's top. Yeah?

That was so cool. The one he was wearing? Yes. It was kind of like a black hoodie with these sort of flower patterns on the side. It was so nice, Michael. Where was it from? I want to get one. Join us next week where that mystery will not be solved.

No, but we'll be talking about the devil. It's the devil and Jeremiah Stone. That sounds cool. It does sound cool. It sounds like a blues album. But it's not. It's about the English Civil War. Yeah, listeners to the podcast, speculate where Michael might have got his top from. Tarp Sharp? Tarp Sharp. Yeah, Tarp Sharp., speculate where Michael might have got his top from. Tarp Sharp.

Tarp Sharp. Yeah, Tarp Sharp. From the Tarp Man. What accent are you doing there? Is that Irish? It was one that I invented for a sort of personification of David Seaman and I called him Starve Salmon. And it was just whenever we watched the football in the sort of late 90s, early 2000s, I'd do a voiceover for the England and Arsenal goalkeeper.

I'd be like, I kicked the ball really hard down after the punch. And basically all vowel sounds are replaced with an R. And then that became basically a secret language between me and my friends. And you can write coded messages to each other. In Simeonese? On the style of staff salmon yachts but i'm a bit nervous about putting that out on the podcast because papa will be able to work out my card