Loremen Podcast - S3 Ep35: Loremen S3 Ep35 - Sunil Patel - The Garrick's Head, Bath

Episode Date: August 27, 2020

The Garrick's Head pub is home to many Bath-based legends, so we called up our Bath area Deputy Loreperson - Sunil Patel (BBC Asian Network). The Loreboys cover a fair amount of genuine history in this one, from pneumatic wigs to the MC of Bath's extravagant balls. And before you ask - YES! We do describe several 1970s photos of 1970s men pointing towards places ghosts were once seen. Loreboys nether say die! ko-fi.com/loremen @loremenpod www.twitch.tv/loremenpod www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod @JamesShakeshaft | @MisterABK | @SunilDPatel

Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm James Shakeshaft. And I am Alastair Beckett-King. And we have another returning guest law person. Yep. It's Sunil Patel. If the listeners haven't seen what Sunil looks like, just picture a luxurious cat. Yes, he's got somewhat of the cat about him. He's graceful, but lazy. As opposed to

if you were to say he was quite doggy, you'd mean he was stupid and eager. Absolutely. He's nothing like a dog. If there's one thing Sunil's not, it's loyal. Let's hear the episode. Alistair. James. How are you? I'm all right. A little bit tired. Yes.

I tried to go for a jog and it just turned into a walk. Have you had that? Oh. And the jog degenerates into just perambulation. I can barely jog. I'm doing that couch to 5K thing and I'm still on like the second level. That's the ice one, isn't it? Yeah. It's like a desert.

And then it's underwater. I hate the underwater one. That's the worst. But Alistair, we'll discuss that further later. First of all, I've got a guest law person. It's a returning guest law person, no less. Oh, yeah? Have a little look at your Skype screen.

It's only Sunil Patel. Hello. Hello. Can you see me waving at you on the Skype screen? Yeah, I can. I can see you waving. Oh, sorry, I should wave back. Yeah, sorry.

I forgot that you could see me. That's right. I'm so glad you're available at short notice. Less than 12 hours notice. I shouldn't undermine you this early on. No, it's all right. I find it very easy to process the information quickly. Needed to make this podcast a success.

Are you happy with that? Is that what you wanted? Yeah, I was sent reading. I forgot there's reading for this podcast, isn't there? Oh, big time. There's a reading list for any conversation with me. I can't believe you haven't been doing the breath work. I'm stunned at the amount of old books you two end up with.

Oh, mate, this one. The one that I sent you stuff from is Haunted Inns by Mark Alexander. This is a real treat. How much was it? Was it obviously secondhand? I think it's about £8. But yeah, this is 1973. Oh.

And it's got photograph pages in the middle. If you want to keep hold of that, it could be worth something. It's worth £8. Yeah. But they're all... It's all black and white photos of 70s pubs. Oh. And it is the past.

Can you see that? Do they ever capture photos of ghosts in it no okay there's a guy pointing at where a ghost was oh he's in the 70s that's a mock neck jumper it looks like a french philosopher pointing at a cupboard saying that's where the ghost was that's a bone that's an arm that's an arm that's a skeleton's arm that's an arm a withered arm i think it's a child's withered arm. It was a different time in the 70s. It was normal to have a child's withered arm in a pub.

Everyone thought it was a laugh. Look at that landlord. He hasn't even put his fag out to have that picture taken. It's a shame the listeners can't see that, but that's an elderly gent having a fag. Behind the bar. Behind the bar, where you're not supposed to drink or smoke. There's another guy pointing at where a ghost was.

I mean, these are definitely photographs of burly men pointing at nothing. Just pointing. I'm going to see how much that book is. I'm intrigued. Classic pointing. Haunted inns. I think if I got hold of every coffee and burnt it, it would increase the value of yours. Oh, thanks.

Pleasure. An absolute pleasure. You're going to goldfinger it. Is that what their plot of Goldfinger? Yeah, nobody apart from me is really interested, but i think it's quite an interesting plan we forget them we think his plan was to uh invade fort knox somehow and steal but you can't so his plan is to set up a nuclear bomb there or some kind of dirty bomb so it's all irradiated so um so nobody can use the gold in fort knox meaning that his gold massively increases in value. Very clever. It's quite a good plan. It is, yeah.

And you could do that with books from the 70s. Oh, Mark Alexander has actually followed it up with a book called Haunted Churches and Abbeys of Britain. Oh, what? There's a sequel? And A Ghostly Guide to Britain's Haunted Stately Homes. He very much likes the theme, doesn't he? Yeah, Alexander was not sleeping on ghostly

locations. He is not. Oh, he's still writing. Is he? Enchanted Britain, Mystical Sites in Rural England. Ooh. I'm sorry to turn this whole episode into an advert for this writer. No, I can't wait to see photographs of people pointing at trees and hills. Some grass.

I mean, that was published last year. It's available on Kindle. Ooh. Has it got a photo section in the middle you can't have the slightly thicker pages of the photo section on a kindle you can't replicate that you can just have a digital yeah yeah you can replicate that yeah yeah it's something of our era to be to go to the local wh smiths to find the movie novelizations to look at the photos in the middle of the books isn't it that's very much oh i see is that just literally just me i always hated whenever a paperback had

now a major motion picture which for some reason is the only way they phrased it yes it always said exactly that i hated that i felt like that had somehow ruined the book yeah it looks like you're reading it because it's a film any edition of a story which is like they use the cover of the film is just terrible you don't want that in your collection i think i'm exposing my illiteracy here because i'm talking about like the goonies the book of the film whereas you're talking about like literary works that have been adapted jane eyre never gonna read it i prefer to watch the film of some of those the child child Jane Eyre when she's a kid is just the best character in literature. Really? Why? Because she's just, everyone's constantly

unfair to her and she's furious and keeps pointing it out and sticking up for herself but then she grows up and becomes terribly humble and just suffers life's blows and it's like, no! I want a time travelling child Jane Eyre to solve mysteries. No, I want those diamonds polished. I want those diamonds polished into humble, humble adults.

Rub that precociousness out of you. Get it out. Yes, but Alistair, I didn't call up Sir Neil at 4am this morning just to chat to you about gaps. No, you didn't. I called him about something else. You'd found something in a book. I'd found some wonderful pictures of men pointing in a book.

No, I found an excellent ghost story from the city. Is it a city? Of Bath. It is a city. It's got a cathedral, yeah. Yeah, it sounds like just a household object, but it's actually a city. Do you think they had jokes made about it when it was first incorporated as a city?

Was everyone going like, oh oh that sounds like a household object in 1650 or whatever yeah like i think a farmer in 1650 would have just been saying it sounds like a normal household object not in my house i'm a farmer for 1650 possibly it could be the longest running dad joke of all time it's a mistake my hometown for a bath full of water. A big old basin. This is a story I'd never heard, though, the one you showed me. Do you know the pub? I hadn't noticed it until I went on Street View,

and I was like, oh, of course, that pub. This is the Garrick's Head pub, which is next door to the... Is it the Garrick Theatre that it's next door to? It's the Theatre Royal, so it's a very... Theatre Royal? It's full of lovies, that kind of... N named after the actor garrick i was about to ask yeah yes it is david garrick yes yeah who i i randomly read a tweet from garrick yes very big on twitter because you've got to interact with the fans directly these days after you die you leave a

behind for twitter according to this tweet i couldn't be bothered to verify it, but he developed a special hair piece for when he played Hamlet. He had a pneumatic wig so that his hair would stand up on end when he saw the ghost. Really? Yeah. That's beautiful, isn't it? That's not acting.

That's not acting. That's effects, though. What is acting, though? And then I was like... And then obviously because he's related to this tale, so I did a bit of research on him, and it's all about how he was quite subtle and would underplay things compared to the previous age.

He had a pneumatic wing. There isn't a stage actor in the history of the world that has underplayed things. But not all of them had four stagehands pumping up their wig beforehand. Early CGI. Cook must have been complaining about it, saying it detracts from the magic. But have you read the novelisation? I'm imagining Andy Serkis now playing the wig.

Clinging onto Benedict Cumberbatch's head. Yes, so that pub, the Garrick's Head and the Theatre Royal, used to be one house, which was a chap called Bo Nash, which, now I say it out loud, sounds a bit sillier than I'd realise when reading it down. But that is an enormous building. It is. Yeah, a full theatre.

The Theatre Royal is huge. So his house was that and the pub next door. That's Matt Pattinson's house. He was born Richard Nash in Swansea in Wales. Yeah. And he took the nickname Beau and he was... He's the guy who put Bath on the map. Yeah, I read it.

This is a little history I'd never knew. I didn't know that... What I like about Mark Alexander's writing is the level of detail he puts into it, saying, like, so this Bo Nash guy, his dad made his money because he had an interest in a profitable greenhouse. Yeah, I tried to find out what that meant,

and I can't. You could make your money any old way back then couldn't you yeah turnips i've grown too many turnips and now i'm rich yeah uh yeah i'd heard the name of this guy i never knew what he did exactly in bath have you heard of bo nash allister i've heard the name absolutely not no i genuinely i would have pitched him as a sort of late bluesman circa muddy waters era yeah you know maybe going, maybe touring the UK. He was an 18th century dandy. But he came from a lowly background.

All his dad had was a greenhouse, it seemed. Not even the whole thing. He just had an interest in it. He was just interested in it. That's nice. I'm interested in a lot of stuff. It really pays off, eh? Of his father, he said,

I seldom mention my father and company, not because I have any reason to be ashamed of him, but because he has some reason to be ashamed of me. What a quip. Bon Motte. What a Bon Motte that is. That is a Bon Motte. His Bon Mottes were famous,

and people would repeat them at parties. Wow. Like Oscar Wilde. Or like whenever anyone says, I read this on Twitter. Have you heard the story about Oscar Wilde getting on the train saying goodbye to his friends? So, you know, talking to his friends out the window of the train

and he said, you know, one of his classic Wildean Bon Mots to each one of them, just a very witty little piece of advice. And the train was about to pull out, but then it was delayed for 15 minutes and they all realised that he'd prepared them because he didn't have anything else to say. So he just sat down and sort of closed the window and read his newspaper and ignored them for the remaining 15 minutes.

So it just goes to show that people used to work up their material. Even Oscar Wilde used to work on his bits. What I like about that whole anecdote was that you very subtly uh let on that both uh james and i've been mispronouncing bon mo you call it bon mo probably fuming all the way that we've been calling it bon mots sorry i had like a pair of plebs i had assumed that we all we were all saying bon mot ironically oh and it just naturally came up the uh i just think correct way i just think it sounds better.

Bon mot. And I read this on Twitter the other day. You should never make fun of someone for mispronouncing a word because it means that they learned it in a book. Yeah, like a nerd. And in my case, that book was the novelisation of the Goonies. You can't just worship books. Not all books are good.

You can't be like Wild Dove reading a book. Yeah, Hitler wrote a book. Hitler wrote a book. There are so many exertable bits for this episode already. I'll write a book. So, yeah, Bo Nash. Bo Nash. It sounds like I'm saying bone ash.

Oh, yeah. Bo Nash. Bo Nash. It sounds like I'm saying bone ash. Oh, yeah. A potent ingredient. His name is Bo, like Bo Bridges, and Nash... Nash Bridges. Oh, what a bon mot. I'll stop recording now. Don't worry. I'll stop recording for all of us.

Bo Nash, he lived so well. When he was studying law, his fellow students thought, because they had no obvious way that he was getting his money, they thought he might have been a highwayman. But he was a professional gambler. Really? Yeah. He made his money at the cards. Then you used to be a professional gambler, Sunil.

I did, but I wasn't very good at it. I certainly wasn't wearing fine clothes because of it. I mean, you're looking great today. I'm wearing a t-shirt. That's it. I'm impressed. It's a step up from what I've seen in great today. I'm wearing a T-shirt. That's it. I'm impressed. It's a step up from what I've seen in the past. I'm glad.

Right, I see. That isn't true. I've never seen you looking less than diamond sharp. Yeah, but yes, to answer your question, I was a professional gambler, but I wasn't very good at it. Semi-pro. You had an interest in professional gambling. It doesn't say.

I read a bit that he invented his own gambling game, but I can't find what it was. But that seems dodgy. It does seem dodgy. I wouldn't play anyone's game if they said they'd invented it. He was quite the celebrity of his time, though. He, actually, at the time when the fashion was to have a white wig, he wore a black wig with a white hat.

He's kind of a bit of a bad boy. And somehow he got himself the job of the assistant to the Master of Ceremonies of Bath. Assistant to the Master of Ceremonies. Assistant to the Master of Ceremonies of Bath. And that MC was killed in a duel and he took over.

I don't know a lot. There is a lot of violence in that world. The 50 cent of his day. Which would be about what? Three pence in those days? What's the equivalent? Yeah, D. Something with D in it for some reason. Yeah, so he became the master of ceremonies of Bath

and, I mean, all these words mean different things now. That's the problem. I'm just imagining him coming out to the people of Bath being like, we're drinking tonight. Is anyone single? Yeah? I'm imagining him in a bath as well shout out to dj toilet duck the master of bath ceremonies would just bring up maybe a tray of soaps and sponges alufa is matey bath was obviously as we talked about before with you was quite a famous

spa town by the romans apparently discovered by King Bladdered. Yeah. Oh, yes, that's what we talked about, yeah. We're now into the year 1700, and Bath... Sounds like a party town. Well, no, this time Bath was not. It was not. It had fallen on hard times. It was seen as a bit of a shoddy city or town,

whatever it was at that stage. Yes. Queen Anne visited, and it started to get a little bit more famous, and Nash took this opportunity, as the Master of Ceremonies, he ordered massive balls with all of society to come to. Lol.

Lol. Alistair, jump in there. He said massive balls. I can see him smiling, and that's very unlikable. Well, it's also that he ordered them. Like he wrote off. That's what I liked about that. So he put these massive wrote off. That's what I liked about that. So he put these massive balls on.

That's what I didn't want to say. That's why I had to say ordered massive balls, but that sounds bad. So he put these massive balls on and invited all the society people and he would be a bit of a matchmaker. He got the buildings to be all done up really fancy, ordered these big architectural projects to go on.

You know what Bath looks like now. Yeah. That's because of him, because of Bo Nash. So he gentrified the whole place. He loved gambling, though, and he had his own little gambling club in his house, which is now the Garrick's Head. The laws changed about gambling,

and he started to lose quite a lot of money. He, in fact, died penniless. Bath gave him like a big state, almost state funeral, like a big fancy funeral, but he was buried in a pauper's grave. Can I just read out this sentence I found on Wikipedia? Yes. So it says Nash here,

it says Nash was a notorious gambler who was forced to move in with his mistress, Juliana Popjoy, due to his debts. But then they separated and it says, upon their separation, Popjoy was so distraught she spent the majority of her remaining days living in a large hollowed out tree. In a tree. 30 to 40 years she lived in that tree. Shortly before her death she moved out of the tree and back to her home where she died. That's such a funny sentence.

I don't know why. We're just laughing at someone's death. The so-called pop joy set me up for a much more light-hearted escapade. We've got pop joy, hollowed out tree, and then death. Poor woman. That's so sad though, isn't it?

I mean, he must have been pretty charming. She said that she never wanted to sleep in a bed again. And I thought, you don't need to move into a tree to do that. Get a beanbag. People were so much more melodramatic back then. Yeah. And it was 30 to 40 years she lived in that tree. I wish I had a rich mistress.

I wish I had a big tree. Alistair? What do you hope for? You're fine. He's fine. Maybe an interest in a greenhouse. Massive balls. I've ordered them.

Still waiting. You'll notice that it's called the Garrick's Head Pub, not the Nash's Head Pub. Yeah. He lost his house at cards to David Garrick, the actor. Oh, the wig guy. The wig guy. Yeah, the wig pub. Yeah. He lost his house at cards to David Garrick. Oh. The actor. Oh, the wig guy. The wig guy.

Yeah, the wig guy. Oh. Whoa. You know, actors often think, you know, going up for auditions, you know, how do I dress? What do I take with me? Oh, yeah, wear the shoes

of the character. Yeah, should I be wearing the shoes of the character? Do I need a pneumatic hairpiece to lift up? Just to emphasise the right line. Turned up for an advert casting. Like, everyone in there has got pneumatic wigs on.

Like, ah. They've all thought of it. I did an audition a couple of days ago for Stupid Man Sitting on Toilet. Which I think was... That was one of your reviews in edinburgh wasn't it word for word what are the chances two stars uh well i wish i could i wish i could pull off just sitting on a toilet for an hour as an edinburgh show

it's got to be stupid man sits on. We don't want to watch a sophisticated metropolitan liberal elite sitting on a toilet with vegan toilet paper, not interested. I'll wear a flat cap, don't you worry. Where's the f***ing ghosts? So, ghosts. You wanted them, I'll bring them. So when it was a gambling house A gambler realised That one of the people he was sat playing cards with

Was his wife's lover So hang on, who owned the house now? This is still Garrick's house This is when it was Nash's gambling club Oh right And he leapt on the man in a frenzy And stabbed him to death Right

And the wife in question was there And she was so distraught by witnessing this She ran upstairs and threw herself out the window, also to her death. A lot of women getting a raw deal. Maybe she was hoping there would be a tree there and she could just whoop, move straight in. But no, she died.

What, just falling out of a first floor window? No, like she went right up to the top probably. Oh did she? Alright, fair play. You could drown in a puddle. There's another ghost you didn't get to the ghost james those those two ghosts want the house oh okay carry on oh what the woman and the lad don't know what they do they just knock around like well not knock around because that's the next ghost the knocker it just knocks on stuff well yeah apparently the

landlord was telling mark alexander when he would have people round for dinner he would hear a knocking on the dining room door and if someone went up to answer it there'd be no one there. And then when he sat back down at the table the knocking would start again. So he'd just say, come in and the knocking would stop.

Just being polite. Just say, come in the first time then you don't have to get up is what I think. Another ghost that the landlord describes is that of a practical joker who hides his cufflinks. Hides the landlord's cufflinks. Yes. Not his own cuffl joker who hides his cufflinks. Hides the landlord's cufflinks?

Yes. Not his own cufflinks? Not ghost cufflinks. Not his ghostly cufflinks? Like, where are my cufflinks? It's like, we're not bothered. Yeah. Get out of here, ghostly beetle.

All these things that the landlord calls practical jokes are just like, would make me f*** my pants if they happened to me. What, have you lost your cufflinks well no i would be like all right if someone if a ghost has had my cufflinks away i wouldn't i'd move out like practical jokes are basically in the eye of the the the jokey aren't they essentially to decide if it's a joke or not and this landlord seems well up for this this is one of the jokes he describes um i'm going to read the quote here my wife and I were sitting in our lounge watching television one evening.

Suddenly I saw two candles rise from their holders on the sideboard. They shot through the air, just missed my wife's head and fell down in front of her. This was absolute fact. Candles don't normally jump into the air. Absolutely hilarious. Anyway, we left them where they'd fallen until the morning. That's a remarkable practical joke. None of that is a joke, whether done by

a ghost or not. I know. Sunil, if you came out at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival with two candles, lifted up and threw them towards the audience and then left them there until the next day, that's three stars at best, isn't it? Three stars minimum. I think it depends on the venue.

A free-finge venue, you're getting nothing. But if you did it in somewhere that implies it's very clever comedy, like that sort of London comedy, I think you'd be on for a Soho Theatre run. And this last one, I think, this last joke could be part of your one-man show, Stupid Man Sits on Toilet. So after the bar closed,

the staff were having a drink and the barmaids went nip to the loo. And when she came back, she was confused that the landlord's wife was in the room. And she said that she thought she'd heard her in the toilet next to her, in the stall next to her. Doing what? Shutting the door and flushing the loo.

Oh, right, right. That's what she'd says, but probably trumping, isn't it? Does she think it's a practical joke, this woman, or is she just scared? This is all reported by the landlord, and he says, that's another one of the jokes. That's not a joke, obviously. That's not a joke.

Unless you did it at the start of the show, and then at the end, like, it would be a callback. Yeah. To flush the toilet again. But how would a ghost from, like, the 16th or the 17th century know even how to use a flushing toilet? It'd be incredibly futuristic. Very good point. it's like me trying to haunt a teleporter i don't know where to begin start bashing the buttons i look like an idiot yeah good point i

guess there's a lot of sort of ghosts knocking about with stuff that's like they wouldn't know what to do with so yeah if i were if i were a victorian ghost i'd just be going i'd just be looking at phones and nintendo switches going like wow what's that are ghosts sentient oh i don't know they evidently need the loo uh the two competing theories about ghosts well the three competing theories if we include they don't exist are the recording theory where ghosts are some kind of impression made by things that happened and they repeat yeah and then the other one is that they are trapped spirits where the soul of a person is trapped which would you think the recording one is more plausible because i don't think the soul exists but i in reality i don't think any ghosts exist sorry at this point in the podcast to ruin the whole

premise shell real bombshell i don't think any ghosts exist well this maybe is another ghost story, which maybe implies that they do, if not understand the modern world, they are very much like me when I've got a wireless printer that won't connect. In 1964, the Landlord reported that the cash register, which was half a hundred weight, which I guess is 50 weight, was hurled across the bar into a chair smashing it. Wow. So the ghost hates chairs.

And he'll use whatever he can lay his hands on to smash them. That's quite scary. Yeah, that is frightening. What is a hundredweight? I have no idea. How heavy? A hundred? Absolutely no idea. Hold on guys, let me google it. So the old till, according to this, weighed twenty-five. Okay, so the old till according to this weighed 25 kilos

which is half a hundredweight. Why would you call 50 kilos a hundredweight? Yeah, that's twice as much as it is. Absolutely infuriating imperial measurements. Yep, can't stand them. Oh, here we go. The British hundredweight is 112 pounds, you pieces of... But what's a baker's hundredweight?

It's going to be just slightly more. Yeah, it's seven muffins. That and the weight of a cat. And the final ghost is that of a grey lady who also haunts the theatre. And she's got a lovely smell. Yeah, that sounds like a sweet, that's like a nice ghost,

but no one's telling me any information about her. They're just like, oh, there's also the grey lady. Yeah, she smells of jasmine. That is annoying, isn't it? Because if you spend your time flinging tills across a bar, everybody's paying attention. If all you do is produce a pleasant jasmine scent. Sounds like my Twitter profile.

As opposed to more loud mouths. It's a shame that the listeners couldn't see you removing your glasses in order to put on sunglasses, as you said. And once a clock struck during a play when it wasn't supposed to, that's the last ghost. Do people listen to this podcast for ghost stories? Probably not from this point onwards. Yeah.

This is all fascinating stuff, because the Garrick's Head, what I liked about the Garrick's Head is that the lad who owned it, he built a tunnel going straight into the sides of the of the performance space at the theater royal uh the lazy actor he was from his house but that's quite interesting because what sort of weird stuff was down there so garrick could go from his house to the theater via tunnel he could go literally onto the stage via a tunnel oh so he didn't have to talk to his fans or do any signings and stuff afterwards yeah he could just yeah go off just straight to his sitting room. He could get straight up from a nap and be performing.

Get the wig on. Yeah, you don't want to be going in the tunnel with a pneumatic wig. That's a headroom risk, surely. Wake me when the wig is half pumped. See, if they unblocked that tunnel, I like to go and visit that that sounds quite interesting because i've like yeah i've been in i've actually performed at the euston of theater which is part of the theater royal but i've never actually yeah i played romeo really and what i was trying to think of something funny i was trying to think of something funny where Romeo was just the dog. 21 seconds to go.

The So Solid Crew biopic. I played Romeo. The So Solid Crew story. It does sound like an extremely short play, though. A lot of effort to go to. Right then. Sunil. Hello.

We're going to get scored now by Alistair. How are you feeling going into it? Great. Am I aiming for a high or a low score? We want fives across the board. Of course a high score. It's not darts. No, sorry. Generally a high score is what you would aim for. This is why you're a bad professional gambler.

Do I want more or less? Yeah, yeah, yeah. My aim is to get rid of it all, yeah. But my cards are the furthest away from 21. Surely. I don aim is to get rid of it all, yeah? But my cards are the furthest away from 21. Surely. I don't want to be weighed down by all these chips. Flinging them around. You've got a wrong idea of me as a professional gambler.

I wasn't in a casino wearing it. It was a cravat flinging chips around. Let's go for Supernatural, first of all. How many points would I give this for Supernatural? No, we've got to get them off allister you've listened to the podcast you've listened to a third of one of the podcasts yeah i will provide the scoring because i why do you get to be in charge of this because i'm independent i'm objective when it comes to bath and it's haunting we come up with the categories and he gives us the score this is actually the first time we've explained it to be

honest yeah that it's sort of been inferred before. It hasn't caused any confusion with any previous guest or listener, I just have to say. I just don't understand why James has no authority over these scores. Well, no, we're going to argue. Oh, are you? Go for it. It's a podcast. He's not just going to go, three, okay, next one.

I thought he was some sort of wise figure watching over us as we discussed ghosts and then throwing us scores. It's three. Move on. Done. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hey, we've got ghosts chucking 100 weight. However, half a hundred weight.

Which is half the amount you would expect it to be. We got that. We got the smell of jasmine. Some unspecific lover's ghosts. And I've forgotten the last one you know there's been a lot of ghosts when i can clearly hear the sound of you flipping pages frantically trying to remember which ghosts we covered toilet toilet ghost that's a category i'm not that impressed with the the unmemorable ghosts of this i think okay I can see you looking sad and angry simultaneously.

Me? What, Sunil? No, Sunil looks fine. Sunil looks standard Sunil. I don't think I've seen you have any facial expressions. Even without the beard, it's still giving nothing away. They're very subtle. That's why I get castings for roles such as Stupid Man on Toy.

How are you supposed to look stupid? You have to be subtle about it. It's astonishing my agent has placed me in the firing line of roles such as stupid man on toilet. You were almost there, but we couldn't imagine you on a toilet. All right. All right. A four. Well done, James.

You've negotiated me. I'm not completely sure how, but four out of five. There were a lot of ghosts. And of course, these points do mean prizes at the end. Definitely. There'd be a bag of mini Mars bars at the end of it for me if I reached a certain threshold. Next category, naming.

We've got Bo Nash. We've got Juliana Popjoy. Oh, yeah. Grey Lady. Grey Lady. Garrick, the actor. Garrick is a good name. David Garrick. Dave Garrick. Dave Popjoy. Oh, yeah. Grey Lady. Grey Lady. Garrick, the actor. Garrick is a good name. David Garrick.

Dave Garrick. Dave Garrick. Dave Garrick. Yeah. And... Mr Welch, the landlord. Mr and Mrs Welch. Mm-hmm.

I think it's a four out of five. And two of those are for Popjoy and two of those are for Bo Nash. And the rest of them have not pulled their weight. Okay, then. I've just seen... Are you about to produce something spectacular? I've seen one more name. It's the name of the reporter

who reported the story of the cash register getting thrown across the room. Okay. His name was John Duller. It's three out of five. It's gone down to a three out of five. Underwhelming, isn't it? Underwhelming. Oh! underwhelming oh we're

not doing well here sonil you're not really arguing this up oh i thought i was leaving it to you yeah clearly all right let's go come on let's let's the format of the podcast is you're supposed to argue in favor of all right let's get the big guns out here we go uh next category the past it was in the past this all takes place in the past it all unambiguously takes place in the past five out of five for that one yeah i mean it feels like you're not in keeping with the spirit of the podcast but i can't fault you there it did happen in the past thank you that was easy well done the last category is showmanship pizzazz yeah there's a lot of that isn't there a pneumatic wig i just can't get over a pneumatic wig that is the height he showmanship up a city yeah yeah yeah that's incredible massive

balls let's not forget the showmanship of these spurned women in these stories throwing themselves off buildings living in trees living in a tree for 30 to 40 years. Everyone was at it back then. They were just doing mad stuff. They really followed through on their threats. It was all for show back then. So they just gambled. That said, I'm not sure the guy's just pointing into corners. I'm not sure they were quite as snazzy as they could have been.

The photographs you showed me do not scream pizzazz. It's not the first word that leaves the mind. But it's a sober examination of the past. That's where some pizzazz might have been. I didn't show you the picture of the woman reenacting what she saw the ghost do. That's a picture of a woman looking at a fire, James. Listeners, it's a woman sitting down,

looking at a very small fireplace. And you have submitted this, let me remind you, in the category of pizzazz. James, you fool. That has no pizzazz. James, you fool. That has no pizzazz. Two bar electric fire she's staring at. It's the least pizzazzy model in the range.

That is Britain in the 60s, that image. Nobody wants that. There's no showmanship involved there. But on the other hand, picking up two candles, flinging them across the room, there's a real sense of fun involved there. Hilarious. A lot of fun.

A lot of fun. Stealing cufflinks. It's very you've been framed. I think it's a four out of five. Yes. I think we'd better settle for that before we get knocked down. Sorry, Sunil shook his fist in the air with what seems to have been joy, but I was alarmed

because I've never seen him express an emotion that intensely. You've never seen me win four points like that before. I realise your description of professional gambler is so close to my understanding of poor person absolutely slippers on popping to the shops pensively staring at a two bar fire like a ghost

but that ghost probably was going like what is this an electric fire I've never seen it it was really amazed by the futuristic technology of the fire so Sunil do you want to plug your podcast? Because I feel like the people who you get off the back of this might be the wrong sort. There's no such thing as the wrong sort.

Let's find out. How can our listeners find you? You can find me on Instagram, at Sunil Patel Solutions. And also, my podcast is Why Is Harriet Crying? I have that with Harriet Kemsley and I'm on the

BBC Asian Network every Saturday. That's what it's all about these days. Yeah, I mean you've made that sound really unimpressive but it's actually quite a fine body of work. You can see me on Netflix on two series of Borderline. Very nice. It's a good series fine body of work You can see me on Netflix on two series of this Borderline Very nice, it's a good series

I'm actually the thumbnail But unfortunately it comes up under the category of lovable losers This is a picture of me Holding a frozen chicken At the top of a stepladder I do have a habit of making this sound bleaker than it is And maybe, fingers crossed, you'll see me in the role of Stupid man on toilet That is a real humble brag this sound bleaker than it is and maybe fingers crossed you'll see me in the role of stupid man

on toilet that is a real humble brag the the picture of me on netflix is unflattering yes that's true that is true but do listen to our podcast why is harriet crying uh uh if you enjoy podcasts they've got to to be listening this far you have got to really be into the whole genre of podcasts. You've been listening to Lawmen with me, Alistair Beckett-King. And me, James Shakespeare. And this coming Sunday, the 30th of August. 2020. In the year 2020. You me, James Shakeshaft. And this coming Sunday, the 30th of August 2020. In the year 2020. You know, the worst year.

We will be doing a live stream about Edinburgh with guest law person Eleanor Morton. Yes. We were very sad that we didn't get to go to the Edinburgh Fringe and so we brought Edinburgh to us. Yeah. Well, we're talking about it in a podcast. It's not exactly the same as the largest arts festival in the world, but

if you'd like to support this frivolous nonsense, you can sling us a few doubloons at ko-fi.com forward slash lawmen. Alistair. Yes, James? I got an email from a lady called Stephanie. Her partner, Chris, it's their birthday. It's Chris's birthday. Yes, on the 1st of September. And they did a road trip that seemed to end up being a road trip around a lot of the places that we talked about over the

series of Lawmen. And Chris made Stephanie listen to all the episodes. Wow. And as a sort of revenge, she's got us to give him birthday wishes. I what that sounded like i don't know press press play on the thing so chris chris is this how you're spending your birthday just driving around visiting haunted spots to be honest that sounds amazing have a really good time yeah that'll sound reasonable you've you've really in the tone of your voice, James, you've implied that that's a bad way to spend your birthday. But it actually sounds great. No, it's great.

Well done, Chris. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. I would like to say, from the information we have, don't make Stephanie listen to the podcasts you like. Don't force her through 50 episodes of this rubbish. Just let her be her own person, please. You've done 50 of these? 54.

54. Chris, that's Sunil Patel is here. Would you like to wish Chris a happy birthday, Sunil? Chris, happy birthday and congratulations for listening to 54 episodes of Lawmen. Could you try and say that again, but with any sense of commitment? And I'll edit out the

previous one. Chris! Happy birthday! Congratulations for listening to 54 episodes of Lawmen. I hope it was a normal speed and not 1.2, which is how I prefer to listen to these. If anything, it came out more

sarcastic. It's 53 and two-thirds more episodes than you've listened to, Sunil. Oh. What a burn. Chris, yeah, you've listened to way more episodes. Because I'm saying you only listen to your own voice on your own episode. Yeah. I mean, I don't like listening to my own voice.

And I don't listen to myself when I talk either. So I've listen to minus. You've really brought mime into the podcast world. Do you listen to your podcast yourselves, guys? Big time. My favourite. So as in like to learn and improve? No, it's never occurred to me.

I just bask in my own glory. I listen to my Bon Mots and I think, yeah, that was a bon mot, actually. Chris, do... Is Chris still listening? Yeah, this is still Chris's birthday message. Chris, do let them know if you appreciate their bon mots. I think without any listener feedback, the bon mots might cry. Yeah, are they bon mots?

Are they just sa va mots? Are they mal mots? Are they mad mot? The last thing you want is a madmo Shall we sing a little happy birthday? Are we singing it? Lead it, Sunil

Okay Alright, after three Happy birthday To you Happy birthday To you Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday dear Chris.

Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. I can't wake up the baby, actually. What are you doing to me? Go wake up the baby. Tell it it's Chris's birthday. I thought that was just something like a hype man would say. Like, you're going to wake up the baby.

I thought it was just a phrase from the popular music. I'm going to wake up the baby in a minute. Oh, you're going to wake up the baby. Right, Sunil's yawning. We'd better wrap it up. Happy birthday, Chris. Oh, cheers, Chris. Good one.

All right. Stop recording that.