Loremen Podcast - S3 Ep40: Loremen S3 Ep40 - Chillingham Castle

Episode Date: October 1, 2020

Alasdair wows James with England's self-proclaimed "most haunted castle." That description is technically accurate, in that it is a castle that's been on the TV show "Most Haunted".    Alasdair tells a tale of skeletons, charlatans and circus clowns, and James nearly derails the episode with an anecdote about crisps. Crisps... and lies.   Loreboys nether say die! ko-fi.com/loremen @loremenpod www.twitch.tv/loremenpod www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod @JamesShakeshaft | @MisterABK

Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm Alistair Beckett-King. And I'm James Shakeshaft. And in this episode, I take James on a tour of the most chilling castle in Northumberland, Chillingham Castle. So named because they used to chill ham there. Yes, it was a big fridge. A big meat fridge.

That little egg drawer is just, you don't want to lift the flap on that. Oh, also, I attempt to derail this story with an extended anecdote. About crisps. About crisps, mostly. Don't worry, there is spooky stuff coming up. You've got to stick with the crisp bit. And if you are playing the Lawmen drinking game and your card says you don't

want to lift the flap on that, drink now. James. Yes? Come with me to the land of Northumber. Ooh, Northumber. Oh, Northumber. It's Northumberland, or Northumbria as it used to be. That's nicer, isn't it? I think it's nicer. And now they say Northumberland.

Boring. But in the land of Northumber, there is a place called Chillingham Castle. Yeah, did you hear the lightning strike? Did that happen at your end? Yeah. Chillingham Castle. I mean, that hear the lightning strike? Did that happen at your end? Yeah. Chillingham Castle. I mean, that's a good name already. That's the sound of a number five

marching towards the score section of this podcast. Yes, unless everyone involved is called, like, Mark Jones. Unlikely, that's a Welsh surname. They'd be called Mark Dodds. Hugh Mann. No, there are just some absolutely cracking names. I don't want to oversell it. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa.

I got some real conkers in the bag. That's something that could be a phrase, but isn't. Who bags their conkers these days? Kids these days, I don't want to start a sentence with kids these days, but I'm always walking around seeing really good conkers on the floor that haven't been picked up and turned into

conkers, like competitive conkers. Me too. What are they doing? I don't know. With their Xboxes and their PlayStation 5. I think they get them all off Amazon. Pre-vinegared. Ah.

Vinegaring just makes them mouldy. The only surefire way is to store them for a year. Is that it? You just dry them out? And the next year, and you need like a proper actual drill to get through them. Of course you did, Shake Shaft. Of course you were playing the long game.

Long game, long Conquer game. That's why they call you long game Shake Shaft. And what I'd do is I'd sacrifice all the other ones for one year to someone so that he built up a big score, and I'd be like, you save that till next year, mate, and I'll come back for it. And then boom, I'd get all those Conquer wins back. I'd also have really hurt my knuckles.

I find that exceedingly believable. So Chillingham Castle was at one time a stronghold called Chevellingham. I went to, my school was called Cheveley Park, possibly from the same place. And that is in the 12th century, which, as well you know, was ages ago. Yeah, that was when the castle was called that, not when you went to school. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So absolutely, it was a stronghold in the 12th century. I went to school in the 90s, the 1990s. Oh, yeah. Yeah, the age of pogs. Oh. It was the age of pogs. And tazos. Tazos.

Have I told you about the golden tazo scandal of Chippy Norton School? No, you have not. So tazos were, what were they, Warner Brothers knockoff pog game? The Tasmanian Devil character, his own version of pogs, which if you don't know what those are... We're not for you. We're not for you if you don't know what Pogs are. Yeah, stop listening to the podcast now.

It was a brash 90s take on Tiddlywinks. It was Tiddlywinks with attitude. On acid. It was Tiddlywinks for the Pepsi Max generation. Yes. Yeah, and then Warner Brothers brought out their knockoff version, Tazzo's, but they cleverly partnered with Walker's Crisps to give them away in crisp packets. And hidden in one of these crisp packets was the golden Tazzo. And that was worth like, you know, a multiple thousand pound sum. If you found the golden Tazzo.

Did a golden Tazzo emerge at Chipping Norton School? Someone at Chipping Norton School turned up at the office, the reception of Chipping Norton School, shaking, visibly shaking after one break time with a golden Tazo. What? Little Charlie Bucket turned up at the office. Yeah, it was put in the school safe. His parents were called.

They came early. I think they booked a trip to disney world or something like that so we're very excited with what they were going to do with this money yeah but as the sun headline said you cheeky baggers a group of sixth formers had spray painted a standard tazo gold and put it in a packet of crisps that they'd resealed using the sixth form area sandwich toaster and then put it in a packet of crisps that they'd resealed using the sixth form area sandwich toaster and then put it in the bottom of the machines oh no the machines being where you get your food from is that a universal phrase calling them the machines i think so yeah yeah because you'd you'd either get your lunch from the canteen have packed lunch or get it from the machines

absolutely yeah which made it sound a little bit more dystopian than it was. Yeah, the robots that serve us. I'm very impressed with them having a sandwich toaster in the sixth form area. We would never trust it with anything like that. Well, they'd only just got it. It was very new and it was already being abused, not used for sandwich purposes. They looked at it and they immediately saw its prank potential.

Yeah, and so, yeah, Walkers or the Golden Tazzo representative were called and it turned out that it was a fake. Aw. Didn't that kid end up on, like, Kilroy or something, which was a daytime chat show program on the April 1st edition? He got, like, a load of crisps and stuff from Walkers, and I think they got a bit of money, and I think they did get – I think Kilroy, Robert Kilroy Silk himself, did pay for them to go to Disneyland.

Probably Paris, but actually, no, he wouldn't have paid for them to go to Europe. So that's the story of the Chipping Norton School Golden Tazo scandal. I've got to say, the ghost stories I've prepared for you seem shallow and pale by comparison. But I'm going to plough on and attempt to tell them anyway. Just spray paint them gold. I'll just spray paint everything gold. Actually, there's loads of links between that and the the story i'm going to tell you oh really tv charlatans from the 90s that's a connection okay lies that's a connection uh so chilean castle if

if you google a picture of it it's uh it's pretty austere it's like a 14th the structure that's there now is a 14th century structure it's a northern castle. It's not one of your southern dainty mansion castles. It's a defensive structure with turrets. It's not a soft southern castle. It's not a soft southern castle, no. It's a big, bald, pie-eating northern castle with crenellations. A northern monkey castle. Don't say northern monkey.

It's offensive. And soft southerns aren't. No, that's accurate. They're not going to do anything. They're going to chuck their poo at you. James, that happened once. They're not going to do anything. They're going to chuck their poo at you. James, that happened once. They only chuck poo at their own. They only chuck poo at our kid.

Is that what you think people in Northumberland sound like? Yeah. Saying our kid and the Yorkshire accent. That's very wrong. It's not accurate. It's a generic Northern masterpiece. Chillingham is a very remote area you'll easily get lost if you try and drive to the castle now yeah and it was scarcely populated in the 19th

century when several accounts of it were written but historically was a very very busy place it was the site of um battles sort of border wars between scotland and england or england and scotland it's in all of the descriptions of it scot Scotland is made out to be the aggressor. And I was reading it and thinking, I don't believe that. I just don't buy it that Scotland started the war. In trying to find out a little bit about the history of the place, it's famous for its cows. It's famous for its cows, and it's famous for the Prince of Wales

shooting a bull there in 1872. Again, more bovine-based fame. Which is annoying because it's called Chilling Ham, like the spookiest ham. But it's actually famous for its bulls, which is beef. Yeah. And there's no mention of how scary the beef is, unfortunately. I don't know if my scandal can beat the Golden Tazzo scandal,

but there was scandalous gossip around the prince's shooting of a bull because... Was it a golden bull? I mean, not to defend matadors, but if they just came up with a gun and shot the bull, I don't think anyone would consider that entertainment. It's not particularly impressive to shoot a bull. No, they tend to be in a field.

And they're also the size of a transit van. They're a large target. The size of a big cow. Yes, a very, very big cow. A local poet wrote a satirical take on the shooting of the bull. And it's written in dialect, so you can't blame me for any of this. He's a warrior, you know, and the papers are full of a terrible encounter he had with a bull.

He slaughtered the bull, but his critics will say that the prince was concealed in a bundle of hair and that it was no feat at all to lie hid and slaughter the bull in the way that he did. But some folks are selfish, and one I hear tell, of only great feats unless done by thysel. So it sides with the prince at the end.

They're just jealous. Yeah. Did he have a reason for shooting the bull? Bravery. Bravery, I think. They were semi-wild. Wild bulls. So they sort of roamed around the land. Was he going hunting? I think he was hiding in a haystack, so I just don't have no idea what he was up to. Waiting for the bull to

come by. Yeah, bang, killed the bull. Oi! Was it some sort of vendetta against the bull? Was it, like, revenge? Had the bull started it, you're asking? Yeah, had the bull been slagging him off? I don't have any evidence for that, but that is not the last instance of bovine violence we're going to encounter. Really?

There are ghosts to come. Oh, good. There are ghosts coming. Ghost cows? I can't promise you ghost cows, but I'll give you a little bit more history. Okay. In Historic Houses of the United Kingdom, 1892, there has been preserved, I'm reading, a curious record of a day's doings towards the end of the 14th century.

So, it's a very quiet place now, but back in 14th century, this is an account of things that happened in a day. Margaret, the youngest daughter of Sir Henry de Hetten, was christened at Chillingham Church. Nicholas Heron was married, and John Sargent took Alice de Wingoltz to wife. Sir Henry de Hetten bought a white horse

and dispatched one of his retainers on the dangerous journey to Newcastle to purchase wine, which when we were sort of sixth form age, that is something we did quite a lot. And it was a dangerous journey. Yeah. Was he the tallest lad? Yeah, exactly. To get a few WKDs. John Horsley was carried off by the Scots. A Scot named Thomas Turnbull was captured by John Witton and lodged in the castle of Chillingham. A doe was slain in the park. John Belsize was sent to Annick with a letter to the Earl of Northumberland. And Sir Thomas Gray seized upon Robert Horne and carried him off to Norham Castle against his will. That was

one day, James. That's one day's doings? That was one day! If that was a soap opera, that's a month's worth of soap opera plots. In one day. That's not like, that's not Monday and they've aggregated all the doings from the weekend. Absolutely no, that is not a digest.

That is not a previously on Chillingham. That was one single day. At one castle or in the surrounding area of one? In the area of the village of Chillingham. That is busy. Busy, busy, busy. That is not chilling. That is doing ham.

Since those times, it has become associated primarily with ghosts and the supernatural and death and murder, torture and violence. It's now owned by Humphrey Wakefield, who is the father-in-law of popular celebrity Dominic Cummings off of the news. Oh, that one. American listeners might imagine that British politics is a meritocracy. It's not.

Dominic Cummings is an advisor to the prime minister. For people who don't know who he is, he's like Grimmer Wormtongue, like a less charming version of Wormtongue from Lord of the Rings. And what does he do, James? Can you describe it? Yeah, he thinks he's all that. But you know what? He ain't. He is not all that and a bag of potato chips, or crisps, as we call them here. Tazos.

He's very much the fake golden tazzo yeah of modern politics yeah he is to machiavelli as the fake golden tazzo is to the real golden tazzo sir humphrey wakefield as uh as the internet calls him i'm just going to call him humphrey wakefield because i don't like him he makes a big deal about the fact that it's haunted and it has supernumerary ghosts an excessive number of ghosts too many ghosts too many ghosts not without reason because absolutely loads of skeletons have been found just bricked into the walls you can't move for a skeleton that's been bricked into the walls in chillingham castle it's like they thought it was good soundproofing yeah exactly or was it

like government subsidized for a bit like solar solar panels were? Yeah. So everyone got them? Yeah, it's like loft insulation. Pays off in the end. Cowboy builders coming around saying, oh, we can put in like 12 skeletons in there. And you won't have any ghosts for the first 10 years. That's exactly it. It really starts to become associated with ghosts

when Countess Leonora de Tancarville... Ooh! Yep, moves in. Originally, Leonora van Marta marries george montague bennett the seventh earl of tankerville so she was a van marta and now she's a tankerville now she's a tankerville what's next like a offshore oil rig yeah she actually becomes an oil refinery and so she married george montague bennett he was the seventh earl of tankerville he owned chillingham castle and and she moved straight in.

She's an American, James. An American. An American. It's the 1920s. She was what was called a dollar princess, i.e. a rich American who married a not particularly well-off British aristocrat and got herself a title. You go, girl.

Oh, like in Downton Abbey or Edward and Mrs. Simpson? I don't know. I haven't watched Downton Abbey. But I assume that's what would happen. It's got an American... I haven't really watched it. I just noticed it had an American woman in it. Yeah, and she came in like a brash American and started spotting ghosts left, right and centre. Oh. I can't leave George Montagu Bennett

without mentioning that every description of him that I can find mentions that he was a British peer, an evangelical singer, as well as a cow puncher and circus clown and i have i've tried to find an obituary to confirm that he actually was a circus clown the the legend that's repeated on every website is that he met his future wife leonora van mart, by somersaulting over a couch and landing in her lap, which is very impressive. Yeah. I can't back that up with a New York Times quote, unfortunately.

And also I was shocked to discover cowpuncher. I didn't realise. I thought it was like a thing you would do at a fairground. It just means cowboy. Did you know that? No. Yeah, it's like cowpoke, but taken up one level. How American is like cowpuncherer it's so violent yeah it's

like we have shepherd they have sheep stabber duck mangler these are just normal farm jobs in america so he traveled america picked up a wife came back and she started seeing a heck of a lot of ghosts right the most famous ghost is known as the Radiant Boy or the Blue Boy. This ghost has quite a long provenance. This ghost appears in the 19th century texts I looked at as well. When the clock chimes midnight, the cries and moans of a child, as if in agony or fear, are heard, always coming from a spot in a passage near a tower. Blood-curdling cries are heard heard and then a halo of blue light appears

and a small child, a small boy dressed in blue, floats eerily towards the spectator. You know what they did, James? They knocked through that wall. Do you know what they found? Oh. A little boy skeleton.

Of course a skeleton. Oh. And some fragments of a blue dress. Whoa. They found a boy skeleton and blue clothing. Blue clothing, Oh. And some fragments of a blue dress. Whoa. They found boy skeleton and blue clothing? Blue clothing, yeah. And that skeleton was buried, after which the Radiant Boy was never seen again,

except by loads of people. But every account ends with, was never seen again. Every single one. Like, in the next year, he saw him and he was never seen again. And after that, he was never seen again. Yeah. If anything, that makes it more credible.

It does, doesn't it? The second most famous ghost after the Radiant Boy, referred to by Leonora as an authenticated ghost, is the ghost of Lady Mary Barclay. And, ooh, she had a hell of a time. Her husband ran off with her sister, leaving her with a young child, fatherless. And auntless.

And auntless, yeah. No account has noticed that. Well done, James, for spotting that. child, fatherless. And auntless. And auntless, yeah. No account has noticed that. Well done, James, for spotting that. Yeah, come on. And she wasted away and now haunts the place and the rustle of her dress is regularly heard and the image of the lady is often seen. Leonora tells a very interesting story

about a painting of Lady Barclay that is said to walk. Now, I think it means that the painting itself has some sort of like poltergeist disturb Now, I think it means that the painting itself has some sort of poltergeist disturbances, but also it means that she actually steps out of the painting. Oh, that's quite spooky. It's either very spooky or quite funny because when you move a big piece of furniture, like a wardrobe or something,

and you have to walk it over, you sort of, you know, you wang it from one side to the other, one side to the other. I always find that it must be very undignified for the piece of furniture. Yes. Like if it's a big wardrobe, you're like, yeah, I sit here, take all the stuff and it's like...

It would be embarrassing for an armoire or a heavy Ottoman. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it sounds like that. Well, she mentions in an offhand way that their nursery had been disturbed by the restlessness of this picture. They put the haunted painting in the nursery.

Not only had her own nursery been disturbed by the restlessness of this picture, but the children of friends and their nurse declared that she had stepped out of her frame and frightened them by following them about. Also frightened them by stepping out of the frame, I'm guessing. Yeah. You're not like, OK, fine.

If that woman that's come out of that painting follows me, I am going to get frightened. Yes. A well-known psychologist was staying with the family and he heard the story and he wrote, I've got to see this. He spent a couple of hours sitting in front of the painting once everyone had gone to sleep and nothing happened, basically. He was seen emerging

from the room sort of chuckling and they said what happened and his answer was nothing malefic as in maleficarum or nothing supernatural okay and that seemed to be that but the following morning while going through the rooms he paused before an oil painting and exclaimed that is the woman i saw last night and lord tankerville said well that doesn't make sense because it's a different painting that's not the woman who saw last night. And Lord Tankerville said, well, that doesn't make sense because it's a different painting. That's not the woman who's supposed to get out of paintings and walk about. And the guest said, well, that's the one I saw.

Later in the same day, Lady Tankerville's husband was telling that story in front of his old nurse, who is still with us, she says. And she said, oh, my lord, don't you know? Completely the wrong accent for the nurse. That's from Northumberland. She's travelled. She's been shipped in from the Cotswolds.

All servants are from the West Country. It's a universal room. Yeah. She said, oh, my lord, don't you know? That is a portrait of the same lady, only done when she was much older. Ah. Spooky.

So he did see her, but he didn't realise he'd seen her. Oh. That was a portrait of the same lady, but done by an artist who was not as good. Yes. And that's really spooky. Yeah. At this point, I'm going to have to bring up Most Haunted,

featuring Derek Okora and Yvette Fielding. Yes. Do you recall that programme, James? I do. I had such high hopes for that programme, but it turned out it was all orbs all the time. Especially American listeners might not be aware of it. I think it's pretty much all on YouTube. But don't watch it because it's dreadful.

It's one of the worst television programmes ever made, I think. There's the same programme in America, just with different people in it. But it would be better because the people in ours are the worst people. I've got nothing against Yvette Fielding, except that as soon as it becomes dark, she immediately starts screaming at absolutely nothing.

Yes. Every episode, the lights go out and she starts to scream. Yes. For no reason. But Derek Okora, who is dead now, isn't he? Yeah, he is. Excellent. Good news, because he is the...

Excellent that he's dead or excellent because we can libel him? Both. Right. His whole career was libeling the dead. I can't stand Derek Okora because he is an obvious charlatan. He's a bad con man. So he's from Liverpool and he's got a Scouse accent. Now, that's no one's fault.

But every single ghost he talks to has the exact same accent. They bring him to the place and they say, of course, Derek hasn't been told anything about it. And the first thing it goes is like, Berkeley. I'm getting Lady Berkeley. Our Lady Berkeley is coming through. It's like, that's not how you pronounce Berkeley. It's Berkeley, not Berkeley.

And it would be Berkeley, not Berkeley. But it's so annoying. All he does is just list off the first three things you would find about a place if you Googled it. While pretending to talk to a spirit guide. It's terrible. Sam? Yes to a spirit guide it's terrible sam yes his spirit guide sam his spirit guide sam who i think is from africa yes from in the past yes historic africa it's actually pronounced sam sam sam's coming through but that's the thing like the ghost they can only talk through the vessel that they're talking through so it's not his fault

he's got a scouse larynx or as as they would call it, a chlarynx. It begins with Yvette talking to Sir Humphrey, quite fawningly, I think. But there's a lovely moment where he takes her to the chapel and he's got that sort of exhausted, posh man voice where everything comes out to the side. So, as you can see, this is the chapel. And she says...

Oh, it's beautiful. It really is lovely. And it's not, it looks like a Satanist's boudoir. It's awful. And she asks, Have there been any hauntings in this particular room? And Sir Humphrey says, Curiously, in the whole castle, this is the one place where there haven't been any hauntings.

I think chapels are left very much in peace. There's a great feeling of peace in this place and I think everything's at rest here. And she says, didn't you find some skeletons here? Yes, there were some skeletons found there. There were some skeletons, James. Or a couple of skeletons. Just a smidge. Yeah, exactly.

Now I think, I haven't got any evidence here but I think he's responsible for quite a lot of its reputation for being full of ghosts. Right. The nastiest ghost by far is called John Sage, also known as John Dragfoot. Oh. Yeah, because he had a limp. And so you hear him moving about the castle with his step,

step, step. He was a soldier for Edward I. He hated the Scots. He had a pathological hatred of the Scots, and so he became Edward I's torturer. And in Chillingham Castle, he tortured 7,500 people over a three-year period,

were tortured and then dumped in a lake. Oh, my God. And then he died in the year 1200 at the hands of a border reaver as a consequence of some horrible sexcapades, which I don't think I can actually describe in the podcast. Oh, God. Now, the other important thing to add is that none of this is remotely true.

Oh, good. And there is no historical evidence for any of it. So 7,500 people over three years. That's seven people a day, James, assuming you didn't even take Christmas off. Yeah. Seven people a day in one small room. It's not even a large room. And how big is the lake? It wouldn't be lake anymore has it has it now got an island it would just be loads of scottish people it'd have a gingery tinge he died in the year 1200

which was uh 39 years before edward the first was born right so he died 39 years before his boss was born and there's no historical record of him ever having existed. He didn't exist. But the lake does. On a cold night, you do get the smell of iron brew. There's one more Leonora ghost that I forgot about. Leonora de Tancarville actually published a pamphlet in 1925. Yeah, which is pretty impressive for an aristocrat. They don't normally do anything.

So publishing a pamphlet. I mean, it's no being a clown puncher. Sorry. I mean, cow puncher. A cow punching clown. As well as describing the ghosts I've mentioned, she describes her own direct visions. And this one I think is quite good.

So my question to you and the listener would be, at what point do you realise that this is obviously a dream? So here's what she saw. As I looked, I'm going to do an American accent. As I looked, the form of a woman seemed to take shape before me, walking on the parapet of a tower, apparently as solid as that wherein I sat. She was in the garb of a Dominican abbess. And after looking eagerly towards the hills of Scotland,

she knelt beside the battlements as if in prayer. A man stood beside her proudly erect handsome and richly dressed he too was scanning the horizon towards the enemy country and she begins to feel an overwhelming sense of anxiety she calls for her son in the next room and a housemaid but but no one comes and so she speaks to the abbess and to the man but they don't reply i spoke to them twice and asked if i could be of any service when the man, who was now pacing back and forth, stopped and looked at me.

It was the face of my husband, but the garb of France of four centuries ago. Yeah, and then the phone rang and it was my boss, and I had to come into work at the Sydney Opera House. It was a dream. This is a dream. It starts out really well and it's just so obviously a dream. And then she looked down and she had an apple and she she bit the apple and all her teeth were melted yeah

exactly and then she really needed a wee it's just so annoying because that starts so well and it's so obviously a dream she's well up on the science of ghost hunting right so she reckons that if modern technological marvels like uh the gramophone can exist. Why not ghosts? That's what she says. That's what I say. Whenever I see a USB card, that's what I think. Yeah, if that, why not ghosts?

Yeah, if you can get Bluetooth wireless headphones, why can't there be a Bigfoot? Most marvellous of all our facts of ordinary physical science is no doubt the wireless. Nearest of all to the ghost, most impalpable, annihilating space, so that you and I are here, practically together, laughing at a distance, as we found ourselves able, at will and in a moment, to switch on to London or Aberdeen, Berlin or Bournemouth. Odd choice to end on Bournemouth, I think. By wireless you mean radio.

She means the wireless radio, yeah, not Wi-Fi. A lot like Wi-Fi, yeah. I bet they don't even have Wi-Fi at Chillingham now. I mean, it's a popular hotel, so we can check the reviews and see what the Wi-Fi's like. Those thick walls. I'm going to do that. Free Wi-Fi. Wi-Fi's included.

How much information do you have to put in, though? Just reading a really terrible review. This was a surprise birthday gift for my man and nephew We've stayed in castles before And it's always been a fantastic experience We hired a stretch limo, cost 150 British sterling That's what knights would have used Yep

The trip was 1 hour and 20 minutes And the postcode online is incorrect So that's maybe the reason that nobody can find it Shocking, the smell on entering is appalling Damp, dirty smells. We were told by staff that the owner, Sir Humphrey, buys loads of old junk from around the world and dumps it in the castle,

so nothing you see is authentic. A filthy, dirty hovel, and they charged me 280 British sterling. I don't know why he keeps saying that. He's from Newcastle-upon-Tyne. Who talks like that? The castle is wonderful on the outside, but the owner has made it a bit of a joke on the inside.

I'm with you. Horror of Newcastle-upon-Tyne. Whoa, that is damning. Not Covid safe, says a joke on the inside. I'm with you. Horror of Newcastle upon Tyne. Oh, that is damning. Not Covid safe, says a review dated July 2020. I mean, it was a dungeon where they kept 7,500 Scottish people in a six foot by six foot room. So I bet it wasn't. No social distancing there.

One review just says grubby. Ah, a mucky castle. I mean, I'm skipping over the good reviews. Jumble sale, two stars. Don't know what that means. I reviewed The Dump Near Me. Dick's Pit? No, that one's slightly further away.

A different one. I gave it a five-word review. This place is a tit. So that is the story of Chillingham Castle, a place of ghosts and many, many lies. Why lies? It's as thick with lies now as it once was with people being kidnapped and married

and going to newcastle to get wine i'm just gonna do the tune to get some wine mate i don't know what accent that was it was men are be jolly but he would already be in newcastle oh oh have you just come from chillingham castle to get some wine pal so james i've laid the tale of chillingham castle at your feet yeah i think it's time to score it. Why do you gap for me? My first category for you is names. Names. Oh, good.

Very good. George Montague Bennett, 7th Earl of Tankerville. Leonardo de Tankerville. Or as the French call it, the Tankertown. Chillingham Castle itself is a great name. That is a great name. Alistair Windegoltz. Excuse me?

Yeah. John Dragfoot. That's good. That's a good spooky name. Yeah. He may not have existed, but it's a good name. That is a great name. Alistair Windegoltz. Excuse me? Yeah. John Dragfoot. That's good. That's a good spooky name. Yeah. He may not have existed, but it's a good name. Yeah, they made up a good name there when they made up that name. The Radiant Boy. The Radiant Boy. I was a tiny boy and I died. I'm

in the walls. Probably what he sounded like. No, he'd be a little jolly boy. I was a tiny... I'm trying to do Anton Deck from when they were PJ and Duncan. Can he see? Oh, Geoff, man. I'm in the hall. I'm a little ghost boy.

I'm your little ghost mate. You playing out? Can I play with you? And she'd know he's blue, so he'd be swearing much more. He'd be like, you coming down the f***ing grove? You coming down the f***ing grove, mate're coming down the f***ing grove, mate. Cash makes you look like a f***ing death. What are you doing hanging out with loads of kids?

I got walled up in the f***ing walls like a little... The Viz character of the blue boy. Yep. Good name. Amazing boy. Blue boy. Blue boy. Yeah, you've got that.

What was the haunted painting lady called? Lady Barkley. Berkley. Berkley. It's pronounced Berkley. Lady Berkley. Amazing Boy, Blue Boy What was the haunted painting lady called? Lady Berkeley Berkeley It's pronounced Berkeley Lady Berkeley I'm from Northumberland I'm a little blue boy I'm a f***ing little blue boy

They put me in a f***ing wall They walled me up in the f***ing wall These c***s come in with bricks I'm like what are you doing there? I told you that plaster was a f***ing cowboy. I could have done that for half the price. And been inside it at the f***ing end. Yep.

So that's an impression of Derek Ikora doing an impression of a ghost. And we deliberately misinterpreted the blue element of it. Thank you for explaining in case that section is taken out of context. Names. Derek Ikora.

Sam. Sam. Sam. Oh, anything that involves Sam kind of takes a point off. Prehistoric Ethiopian spirit guide. There's a character called John Bellsize. Imagine if he was the size of a bell. Tiny little dingling man. He was sent to Anik, presumably in a little parcel.

I think it's a strong four because I really like Chillingham amongst other things. All right, I'll take four. I think it's a strong four because I really like Chillingham amongst other things. All right, I'll take four. I think it's a five, but I'll take four. The term cow punch as well. Cow puncher. Yeah, that's good. That's in there.

All right. Strong. Dollar princess. Dollar princess. It's the dollar princess. Take a trip on the dollar princess. Yeah, it's like the start of a montage. Second category, supernatural.

Ooh. As skeletons are to Chillingham Castle, so supernatural is to this story. It's full of supernatural. But as full as that packet of crisps were with things that weren't the golden tazzo, so is Chillingham Castle now full of things that are not ghosts, but lies. But what are ghosts if not spooky lies that's true i mean we can't we can't start saying that skeletons are supernatural yeah but we also can't afford to start saying that stories that are made up don't count in this game that's true that is very true seven people and some people are dear i can't do it people upstairs are saying can you

can you kill more scots i'm like i'm already at max capacity i can't kill it. People upstairs are saying, can you kill more Scots? I'm like, I'm already at max capacity. I can't kill more than seven people a day. I'm going to suffer from burnout, which ironically is what I'm doing to this fella's eyes. I'm practising self-care. Just keep it down, lads. I'm practising mindfulness, please. I'm trying to send him a chi or something.

How has my Geordie accent got worse than yours? It's terrible. My diet's gone to pot. I'm eating on the go. Whilst pulling off fingers. Tell you what, mate, could you just hold that pot noodle whilst I break your fingernails? Supernatural.

What do you reckon? Derek Okora is bringing it down for you because the guy stinks. I don't know why I should suffer because of Okora's actions. It's a four. Hold on a minute, James. James, he's coming through. Okora, he's speaking through me. He's like, James, I'm sorry I was lying, but don't blame Alistair for it. Please give more scores in the supernatural section, please.

Thank you, bye. How come he's managed to scouse up your larynx? Surely he should be just talking with your voice. Yeah, sorry, alright, hold on a minute, I'll do it again. James, it's me, Derek Okora speaking as I would have in life. How's Sam?

Sam, we hang out and we play badminton in heaven together. The important thing is, don't blame Alistair for my fakery. He deserves a high score for supernatural. Oh, he's gone. I'm back in the room. What happened, James?

What happened? I think I've genuinely communed with the spirit world. What? Via Skype and Derek Okora and Sam in that order. Like the wireless, the mysterious wireless. Exactly. Allowed you to actually commun the wireless, the mysterious wireless. Exactly. Allowed you to actually commune with a ghost. Wow.

Yeah. That's pretty supernatural. I'm going to try for Bournemouth next. Five now. Yeah. I'm now fully believing the ghost of Derek Okora. Nice. Very happy with that.

Okay. My next category is charlatans. Oh. Do you want to get Derek back on? This is going to shock you james i was just pretending what to be derrick akora that yep so that's that's the first example of charlatanism that was just me pretending and then we've got derrick akora being a well-known and obvious charlatan we've got um we've got sir humphrey buying all old props and leaving them lying

around dressing a room up that to look like a torture chamber that wasn't even a torture chamber maybe he's listening to my james shakeshark life hack uh if you can't afford air conditioning buy haunted items to bring the temperature down yeah because that's always a factor it's always is that a new life hack i think that is that's that'll go that could go in the pamphlet i think that's gonna be a great pamphlet. I think that is the merch. That is our merch solution. You've got the Prince of Wales acting the big Billy Big Bravery because he sat in a pile of hay and then shot a bull. Yes. Like a bungalow.

Anyone could do that. And they're going, oh, I'm so brave. I shot a wild bull. It's like, well, well done. You had a gun. All you would have to do to do that is be there. There's the charlatan builders. They said they were going to lag the pipes and they just actually wrapped skeletons around it. all you all you would have to do to do that is be there there's the charlatan builders they said

they were going to lag the pipes and they just actually wrapped skeletons around it yeah they said they were going to put they were going to put in insulation that wasn't macabre i've just realized also i've been imagining that they put them in our skeletons but of course they put them in as people and they turned into skeletons oh yeah the guys weren't coming in with a van full of skeletons sticking them in the walls we We've got George Montague Bennett, who is widely described as having been a circus clown, and I do not believe it. Yeah, I like that.

And even if he did, it would be like, oh, here comes the seventh Earl of Tankerville. He thinks he's a clown. Yeah. You can do what you want if you're a British peer, can't you? Yeah. Just like, oh, yeah, just do a bit of clowning, and everyone's like, oh, well done, Your Grace.

He's doing the bucket thing again. He's misunderstood, and he's actually just do a bit of clowning. And everyone's like, oh, well done, Your Grace. He's doing the bucket thing again. He's misunderstood and he's actually punching cows, but we can't tell him. It is funny, though. Yeah, it's five out of five for... Yeah, for charlatans, brilliant. And my final category is simply ultraviolence. Yes. Quentin Tarantino-esque ultraviolence.

Yes. In that it is very violent and also largely fictitious. And somewhat misogynistic. Seven a day. Seven a day. A minimum two brutal bovine incidents with the bull getting shot. Yeah, we've got cow punching. And you don't get a reputation of being a cow puncher

without having at least punched one cow. Exactly. That's the minimum. The Radiant Boys cries of agony and pain yeah that its own it's implied that that was pretty violent whatever happened there yes and the just the sheer amount of skeletons it literally and figuratively smells funny yeah yeah and we've read the reviews it still smells bad and even just on one day it's not violence exactly but like four guys were kidnapped oh yeah there were just people getting carried off just on one day, it's not violence exactly, but like four guys were kidnapped. Oh, yeah, there were just people getting carried off.

Just on one day. That was in one day. Imagine what the rest of the week was like. And during all this, some bloke thought, I'm going to need a drink at the end of this. Yeah, off on the dangerous journey to Newcastle. And that wasn't dangerous because of black ice. That would have been dangerous because of violence.

And also Pete, Jay and Duncan getting blinded. Let's never forget that. Putting the pain in paintball. The pain and ah in paintball. I thought you were doing the laugh, the Biker Grove laugh. Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. Do it backwards and it's the sound of the blue boy approaching. Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

Jeffman PJ's blinded. He's blinded like a daft. Ah, that blue boy. So it's five out of five. Is it? Oh, wow. What a high-scoring episode. Yeah, no, this is a massively high-scoring round.

I feel I was now overly generous on the naming. Yeah. And I was blubbing duped. Yes. By the arch dupe of duping people. Derek Okora, yeah. The Prince of Lies, Derek Okora. How fitting that this is all related to Dominic Cummings'... Father-in-law, yeah.

Was that the subtext? Have I just said the subtext out loud? No, I didn't actually think that through. You have been listening to Lawmen with me, Alistair Beckett-King. And me, Sir Humphrey. With special guest, the ghost of Sir Humphrey. No, me, James Shakespeare. If you've enjoyed this episode, why not write us a review on the old internet service? Yes.

Tell a friend about it. Don't tell an enemy about it. And you can even go to ko-fi.com forward slash lawmen and give us some money. If you've got all that money burning holes in your virtual pockets. Yeah. Come on Sir Humphrey. Stop blowing it all on jumble sales. Yeah.

Stop buying ghosts and having them shipped in. I've gone back and watched that most haunted. What did you make of Sir Humphrey? He's a real character, isn't he? Yeah. He's got a funny way of holding his hands when he's walking around. He stands like a marionette at all times. It's like he's an escaped mannequin from the Jorvik Viking Centre that's

voiced by... He sounds like Brian Sewell. Yeah, he's voiced by a bad Brian Sewell impersonation. Humanity, surrender yourselves to us, the mannequin race. We are your superiors. No, we can't move our fingers. We need to keep these ones alive

to open doors and envelopes. Who knew it would be the envelopes that would take down the mannequins? Thank you, envelopes. Who knew that just by simply sending letters... This film paid for by the United States Postal Service. It's like a war of the worlds but for paper is that the thing you wanted to tell me oh no i wanted to tell you um jimmy shakeshaft eeg came over this weekend eeg he's done gangster oh right sorry yep so js senior or well technically i don't know it's granddad that's, even though he's no longer with us?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he's Jimmy Shake Shaft Junior. He's Junior. He's the MIDI system, and I'm the Junior. You're not the Junior, but you persist in not understanding how Junior works, and I think it's too late for us to try and solve this problem. Fine. I think we just have to wait for the line to die out.

Well, the original Jim Shake Sha shakeshaft i found out what his dad was called yeah you i'm gonna save it as a little tease because i actually interviewed dad on a recording about him knocking around in london in the swinging 50s and 60s yeah having run-ins with the craze he told me loads of stories, loads of names. As soon as I turned it off, he went, well, of course, you can't use any of them because they criminally implicate loads of people in murders and or manslaughter.

What? I didn't know we were talking about murders. I thought we were just talking about, I don't know, whatever I think companies do, eel theft. It turns out it's mostly murder or manslaughter. There's one bit where he told me about a family which had seven brothers to begin with all did time for murder seven brothers each of them did time for murder a different murder and yet my musical seven crimes for seven brothers yes no one no one thought it was plausible yeah and then i found out what my great-granddad

shakeshaft's first name is and well you are, you are not going to believe number four. I'm so excited about great-granddaddy shakes. I'm going to save it. Maybe save it for the live show. Yeah. Zero. No one will guess it. No one will guess it.

I mean, that sounds like a challenge to me, James. I think listeners should be getting on the Twitter and immediately guessing what they think. Great-granddaddy shakes is called. I'm going to try and guess. Nigel. No. Plimsoll. No.

Chris Cheese. It's Shake Shaft, obviously, is the surname. Oh, the surname's Shake Shaft. Right, okay. That narrows it down then. Steve. John. No.

Paul. No. Ringo. Uh-uh. Ulysses. No. I really want to tell you, but I'm going to save it. Save it.

Save it.