Loremen Podcast - S3 Ep46: Loremen S3 Ep46 - Crystal Palace

Episode Date: November 19, 2020

Alasdair and James return to the borough where the Loremen first saddled up. It may sound like a fairy tale, but South London was once home to a great palace of cast iron and glass. Crystal Palace may have burned down*, but many mysteries remain… Plummet! Into a ghost train full of Victorian skeletons. Dine! Inside an historically inaccurate dinosaur. Marvel! As a vengeful TV psychic comes a cropper. Listen! To this episode. * Somehow. Like, glass and iron don’t burn, so…? We’re just asking questions. Loreboys nether say die! Support the Loremen here (and get stuff) patreon.com/loremenpod ko-fi.com/loremen @loremenpod www.twitch.tv/loremenpod www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod @JamesShakeshaft | @MisterABK

Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm Alistair Beckett-King. And I'm James Shakeshaft. And in this episode, James, I'm taking you back to where it all began, in South London. I'm taking you to the place where the Lure Men podcast started, near Crystal Palace. Technically Thornton Heath, I think it was, wasn't it?

We'd like to say Crystal Palace. I bet you did. I present to you the mysteries of Crystal Palace. three two one did you do two though i do two. I don't know why. The first one was a bit weak, so I sort of... Oh, I can do better than that, and you did a second one at a different time. Yeah, yeah.

James, I've got a little historical oddity for you. Oh, good. Or rather, a collection of historical oddities which centre around Crystal Palace in South London. I know Crystal Palace in South London. I know Crystal Palace. Yeah. In fact, the first series of this podcast was recorded within spitting distance,

if you were really, really good at spitting, of Crystal Palace Park. I'm terrible at spitting. I've lost every spitting contest I've entered. I couldn't hock a loogie for the life of me. All right, so it's not that near. But you used to live near Crystal Palace and we used to record in your house. Yes, and when I was a kid, my grandad and grandma

used to live near Crystal Palace and I would often go to the park as a child. So you will be able to verify that everything I tell you is solid fact. Yes, maybe. I want to say up front, so I've got a lot of stuff for you here. I've got ghost trains.

I've got dinosaurs. I've got an evil wizard. What? Yep, I've got no ghosts. Okay. There's a few poltergeists in the area, and I thought, no, I'm not going to try and scrape up a poltergeist

to keep James happy. I'm going to stick to the facts. Don't start expecting ghosts. You're just going to have to make do with some dinosaurs. How there not be a ghosts how could there not be a ghosts well let's tell the story of what crystal palace is is that where you're beginning no no no it's not i wanted to start with an intriguing netflix style cold open oh yeah quick netflix based side note um i have a telly that has voice control at the the moment, we're in lockdown too. I'm having a lot of fun seeing how weird a way I can say Netflix

and it still understand that I've said Netflix. The moment, as far as I've pushed it, is Nedfligs. And it still goes, oh, Netflix. I suppose, like, Frink needs to be able to use Netflix, I guess. He still needs to be able to use it, doesn't he? Netflix. Netflix. They used to have that for booking tickets for the cinema.

And it just doesn't work in a Geordie accent. Everyone in the Northeast hates that. They never work. They've never worked for anyone, those voice-based film booking systems. And what I like, though, is that they've managed to keep that technology into the website so like if you try and book a film on the odian website you have to look through an alphabetical list of every cinema yeah i might go to the aberdeenshire electric you pick that and then you're like what film do you want to watch you pick that and he goes oh you

want to watch this film where do you want to watch it right cinema i just picked you pick that and it goes, oh, you want to watch this film? Where do you want to watch it? You'll be like, cinema I just picked. And you pick that cinema and it goes, oh, cool, you want to go here? What film do you want to see? Yeah. When do you want to see it? This time. Where do you want to see it? I am going to kill you, computer.

I'm going to kill you. They've managed to seamlessly take that terrible voice-activated technology into the 21st century. I'm starting to think that it's not technology, that there just is a person on the other end going, what do you want to watch? Where? It's just buying for time.

What was it again? He's got like 100 calls on the go, so he's just one guy. Yeah, exactly. So what cinema? Aberdeenshire? What? What time? Okay, what film was it again, mate?

So here's my cool TV-style cold open for Crystal Palace. And my source here is Subterranea Britannica, which, of course, we both know as the magazine for underground things in Britain. Definitely. And according to Subterranea Britannica, also known as Subrit, for cool people who don't have time

to say the full thing, the story begins in that spookiest, most haunted of eras, the 1970s. Ooh. Mmm. In 1978,

a 19-year-old named Pamela Goodsell was wandering around Crystal Palace. You know what the teens are like. Yeah. Yep, yep. They're allowed to be out

on their own in a park. Wandering around. And the ground gave way beneath her feet. Oh. She tumbled down into an underground train tunnel. Now, of course, London has many underground train tunnels, so that's not so extraordinary. Famously, yes.

But what's extraordinary about this one is that there was a carriage, and on that carriage were skeletons dressed in Victorian garb. Oh. And Alistair, were those skeletons dead? Those skeletons may have been dead, James. Oh, God. I'm sorry to tell you that those skeletons were dead. Gosh.

Stone dead. Yeah. Yes, which probably made it even more disturbing for young Pamela. So this is the story of the Crystal Palace. And I want to be clear, since this is a folklore podcast, I want to distinguish it from the fairy tale of father ryan and the crystal palace right which was um i think it's quite an obscure fairy tale but it was i've seen it written by the fabulously named mary frary and charles stebbins mary frary mary frary is she quite contrary

no i'm not well you've proved a point there mary uh that that story of father ryan and the Crystal Palace is about a nurse called Margot who is dragged down into the Rhine by old Father Ryan, the spirit of the river, whose wife is ill. And she manages to nurse the wife back to health. The wife warns her only to accept her usual fee because Father Ryan likes paying his bills, but he hates greed. And Father Ryan offers her the Crystal Palace

is full of treasures and gold and jewels, but she just accepts her normal payment and he lets her go on her way and she escapes his underwater crystal... Maze? The palace, I'm afraid. Oh, okay. It's not that story.

Crystal Palace is a real place, or it was a real place. It was a real, I'm afraid. Oh, okay. It's not that story. Crystal Palace is a real place, or it was a real place. It was a real place, yeah. It was a giant building made of glass and iron, built originally in Hyde Park for the Great Exhibition, which I feel like non-British listeners might not have heard about that. Is it like a world fair? I think it's like the world's fair, but just says it's great. It's a sort of celebration of British imperialism.

Products and inventions and art from all over the world exhibited in a fabulous grand building that looks like a massive greenhouse. And it stayed in Hyde Park for a little while. And then in one of the strangest things I've ever heard, they moved the entire building to South London, like it were a massive TARDIS. Yeah, I'd never quite got that. It must have been a very difficult and stressful job.

Putting up a tent is bad enough. Yeah, but this is a giant tent made of glass. Made of glass. A moving house is meant to be one of the stressful things you can do in your life. Imagine if that house was, yeah, made of glass and full of elephants. And full of ford muck. No. What's that ford muck. No. What's that, James?

Nothing. Thought I heard you say something there. No, no, no, no. So they moved it to what was then called Penge Place. Penge Place. I remember a friend of mine who lives in Penge. She said, Penge sounds like a disease you wouldn't tell your mum about. He's got Penge.

Oh, he's got a dose of the Penge. They moved it there and they reopened in 1854 crystal palace park is quite big it's shaped like a massive shield and in the bottom end of that shield there are dinosaurs yeah i know that i know i know there are i know there are you know that of course you know and i think we've mentioned the dinosaurs on the broadcast before because they are wonderful and inaccurate very inaccurate apart from the ichthyosaurs the ichthyosaurs are very accurate is that right yes because i've got a five-year-old i know a heck of a lot about dinosaurs right now uh paging uh dr shakeshaft uh dinosaur expert uh could you uh let

us uh some of your expertise in this area please okay so we're talking to ichthyosaur why do you have the same voice as me i don't't know. Don't just say so. I think there's something going around. Okay. Okay. Take it away. The ichthyosaur, some people call it a dinosaur. It's not.

The water-based dinosaurs are not actually dinosaurs. Don't know why. The water-based dinosaurs are not actually dinosaurs. Yeah. Sorry. News just in. I'm pressing my finger into my ear. I don't know if it's coming across that I'm pressing my finger into my ear.

Me too. Yeah. The plesiosaur and ichthyosaur are quite accurate ichthyosaurs and plesiosaurs were discovered by one of the first paleontologists mary anning they were and they were found almost whole because they died at sea their bodies were not disturbed as much so when they became fossils they they were kind of whole. Also, to give this a bit of context, this is around 1853. So dinosaurs have only just been named dinosaurs. This is the new thing.

Yes, they're brand new and there's some of them. Even like not knowing that much about dinosaurs, you look at them and you think... Really? They're quite dumpy. The Iguanodon is the worst. It looks nothing like an the iguanodon is the worst uh it looks nothing like an iguanodon that's because they found the spike and they presumed that it was on its nose rather than its thumb but that's the thing when you see what they now they currently think an iguanodon looks like it is a bit like well what's that weird thumb spike for it's like is it a

hitchhiker yeah there's something that we should have said at the top here, which is that these aren't living dinosaurs. Oh, God. This is not a Jurassic Park situation in SE24. No. Or whatever the postcard for Crystal Palace is. Yeah. They are sculptures of dinosaurs. It's too late.

I think a lot of people will have switched off early and booked their tickets. Like, do you have an Iguanodon? Yeah, we have an Iguanodon. Say it again. We have an Iguanodon. It doesn again. We have an Iguanodon. It doesn't look anything like an Iguanodon. It looks weird.

Spared no expense. So the statues were made by Benjamin Waterhouse Hawkins, who did probably spend too much time thinking about whether he could and not enough time about whether he should make giant dinosaur sculptures. But you told me, and I did not believe this, when I mentioned the dinosaurs in Crystal Palace, you told me that they used to eat food inside them. They're dinner parties, not just someone had a sandwich.

That sounds unbelievable. Yep. I looked into it. Do you think, I want you to put your cards on the table, James. Do you think that people ate food inside the iguanodon? I heard there was at least one dinner party held inside one of the dinosaurs james you are correct yes on new year's eve 1853 benjamin waterhouse hawkins held a dinner party inside the iguanodon it's not that big no i think i think the the back part of

it was off so they were sitting inside it but not because it's they're windowless because they're dinosaurs yeah for the usual reason that there aren't any breathing holes or doors yeah or doors one of the few things that they did know then about dinosaurs that is true now they did doorless and windowless they did not have french windows yeah i'll be awful i've been eaten by a t-rex i'll just uh just use the sliding yeah just pop out through this porthole Yeah, it'll be awful. I've been eaten by a T-Rex. I'll just use the sliding board. Just pop out through this porthole. Basically, he wanted to, before they were in the park,

he wanted to get a bit of attention for what he was doing, so he invited loads of important people to a dinner, all men, and a lot of them sat within the Iguanodon, but there were too many people, so there was a separate table of people just sitting next to the iguanodon and that i know imagine not making the cut i bet they when they if they found out within his lifetime that the iguanodon that he designed was not actually accurate but they were happy then they were like get in yes never liked that iguan Don. I knew they didn't have doors. So the park opened in 1854 and the dinosaurs were very popular. Eventually fell into disrepair, but at the cost of about four million quid, they have been rejuvenated. What?

Yeah, yeah. That's how much it costs to paint up an inaccurate dinosaur. If you want someone to paint an inaccurate dinosaur, my five-year-old will do it for a fiver. You've become so daily express since you had a child. My child could do that. someone to paint an inaccurate dinosaur my five-year-old will do it for a fiver you've become so daily express since you had a child oh my child could do that i call it my kid could do that just as good no but you you've got to think about the costs now that they're sealed of squeezing celebrities in there they've got to squeeze david walliams in so he can have some ready breck and a jaffa cake on the inside so i've no evidence of that what that david walliams in so he can have some ready break and a jaffa cake on the inside. So I've no evidence of that happening.

What, that David Walliams was slithered into? No evidence for that. But dinosaurs are not the only lost mystery in Crystal Palace. That you can eat inside? There's Crystal Palace High Level Station, which is a long abandoned underground station. Oh, it's open like once or twice a year. Once or twice a year. And you can go in it.

I was driving past it one Saturday with my family in the car. And we saw that there was like a little A-frame board saying today was the day it was open. Today is the day. And I like almost literally did a handbrake turn in the middle of the street, like, we're going down there. I want to get in there. It's very beautiful.

You can see pictures of it on Subterranea Britannica's website. It looks like a level from the later Prince of Persia games. Yes. Sort of red and cream brick or patterned. It's got like a checkerboard floor thing as well, I think. But it is also not the only lost railway of Crystal Palace. What? Yeah.

In 1864, a guy called Thomas Webster Rammel built a pneumatic railway, which I have not heard of that before. Like air? Yeah, it's like air, James. They called them at the time, they called them atmospheric railway, which is a lovely name.

They do sound pretty chilled. They would because there's an absolutely massive fan powering them you know those um those old tubes you would use to send messages in your office in the 1920s where you would screw a oh the message is here oh someone's been shopping from ireland uh sure we've had a delivery of the messages it's just pints of milk you've got to catch them though another bottle would be perfect sized for those tubes i think they'd still use them in some supermarkets don't you see they have those like they look like little sort of emergency packs with like tubes with orange ends and they put the money in i think they still have a similar system yeah probably not as cool because that that one the one i'm imagining is quite steam

punky with like brass yes coverings and stuff that's very much what the the atmospheric railway is but big enough for a train the way the the the previous ones had worked was the pressure was used to push a piston and the carriage was attached to that piston so it would move a carriage along a rail ramel's innovation was to do exactly what you were imagining which is hey hey let's just let's just roll the customers up put them in the tube and then slide the entire tube using a giant fan and so we built a 600 yard track and it cleverly used inclines so it would it would slope down so that the the tube would roll into it through uh our old friend gravity oh yeah friend of the show friend of the show uh the weak force of gravity yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that's uh that's the opinion

of physics not my opinion just the opinion of physics oh is he weak is he you gonna jump up and not go down afterwards good if i I wanted. What, with a step? Yeah, I'm actually upstairs now, so... Fair enough. Sorry, gravity. He's not pulling you through the floor. I'd like to see him try. All right, well, no longer friend of the show, gravity.

Former friend of the show, gravity. Yeah, so a big fan would push it up an incline to the halfway point, and then it would decline, go downhill all the rest of the way, so it just coasts the second half of the way. And then when they wanted it to come back, they would put the fan into reverse and suck it back using a vacuum. No. Yep, that's how it worked. Wow.

And it cost sixpence to ride. They had some really cool railway-type stuff in the past, didn't they? I mean, it predated most of the London Underground, because the London Underground was just starting to come into existence the year earlier. So it would have been pretty miserable to be underground with a steam train. Because they had to have special stops, didn't they, to let off gas. Who among us can say that hasn't been true for us? Let he who is

without sin. Because they built houses, the whole fake houses. Did they? Yeah, there's quite a famous one in London where there's one of the houses on this row of houses is just a frontage, and it was a let-off stop from the old London Underground. But yeah, pneumatic, thunk, sounds much more fun.

Yeah. Boom! So the rumour is that Webster Rammel's pneumatic railway was abandoned with a carriage still in it, and it's that carriage that young pamela discovered when she fell through the earth oh okay there are some problems with that rumor yeah there's the the problem that that rumor had been around for several decades before pamela reported that the other bigger problem is that ramel made his track using the cut and cover method

so the track was actually only half submerged and it had a sort of a big lump of grass going over the top of it so it looked like you know when you know when bugs bunny goes underground and there's a bump following the whole way yeah yeah yeah so his track looked like that so when it was knocked down there isn't space for there to be a carriage unfortunately and also pamela is obviously a, and her story is clearly not true, because how could a carriage full of people be trapped and nobody noticed? Yeah.

How could that happen? And they're all still sat in the carriage. They're all there, yeah. They're still there. They're still in the carriage. They haven't got out. Because it says the safest place to be is to stay in the train for a hundred years.

And we will be rescued. It's been three years, David. So was it bricked up? Knocked down. So the tunnel isn't there anymore at all. So the logic of it would be the people that were there to knock down the tunnel wouldn't have said, have you got all the carriages out? Oh, there's one in there. Don't

worry about it. The only thing, they would have stopped with it halfway down and gone, well, it's been a good ride. We've all had fun running a railway, but time to close this forever. They did say they were going to knock it down. We probably shouldn't have got on it. It's our own fault. Let's sit here and die.

That said, if you've ever travelled around London, there's so many times that a train pulls in with all the lights off and out of service written on it, and the number of people who will still stand up and expectantly wait for the doors to open. Yeah, yeah. Those people deserve to die. I'm upset because that's sort of the spookiest bit of the story,

and it is clearly not true. Pamela later claimed that she was psychic, which would be the end of the story, except that I started looking into dodgy psychics. Are you familiar with the name Romark? No. Or to give him his his given name ronald markham still no no not familiar okay well people may or may not know that crystal palace as well as being a palace and a park is also a football team crystal palace football

football yes yes fc what they call um as as the podcast has established in previous episodes i am pretty much an expert on the old soccer yes so if i make any mistakes it's a test and i i live quite near selhurst park which is where crystal palace play and in fact that's where my sainsbury's is they've got a sainsbury's in the same building i've been to that sainsbury's many times it means that whenever it's match day the sainsbury's is closed which is really annoying for shopping because i don't know what i have to follow the fixtures just so I know when Crystal Palace are playing. So I know I can't go to the shops.

It's very annoying. Now, again, back to the haunted decade of the 1970s, Ronald Markham was a TV psychic slash magician. The actual term for this is mentalist. That's the technical term that magicians use. But think of Derren Brown, that sort of thing. Or maybe somewhere between Derren Brown and Uri Geller, because he was very keen for people to think that he actually had psychic powers. So he was pretty good at it. He floored Muhammad Ali using his power of his mind. I've seen Muhammad Ali beating up Michael

Parkinson. So he was obviously pretty tough. He could take Parkinson, but he couldn't take Romark. He had him straight down. Don't get too attached to him because he went to prison for forging his mum's signature on cheques in 1982. What? You can go to prison

for forging your mum's signature? Yes, you can. On homework diaries? No, it does have to be cheques. You're okay. Okay, good. His connection to Crystal Palace is in a very small way

quite fabulous. Around 1976 Palace were in a bad way. They fabulous. Around 1976, Palace were in a bad way. They've been relegated twice to Division 3. Does it sound like I have any understanding of the words I'm saying? You're like in a film when someone does a few lines in a foreign language and they've obviously been taught them phonetically. When I say it sounds like I'm trying to indicate to you that I've been kidnapped, but in a way that doesn't let my characters know. to you that I've been kidnapped,

but in a way that doesn't let my captors know. So at that time, the manager was a guy called Malcolm Allison, known as Big Mal. Oh, Big Mal. And he was a cigar-chomping, fedora-wearing man, which makes him sound like a war game incel type. In 1976, Big Mal hired Romark to use his psychic powers to give pep talks to the Crystal Palace soccer team. Yeah, to use his powers to help them,

which I think went quite poorly because he sacked him after a couple of matches. And that is where the curse began. Oh. 27th of March, 1976. The Daily Mirror reports, Curse you, Big Mal! Hypnotist puts Palace under his spell.

Curses! An angry hypnotist has put the boot into Malcolm Allison's Crystal Palace. Hypnotist Romark says he has put a curse on the team because Big Mal snubbed him. And it means Palace will crumble! I'm shouting whenever it's capitalised. In their F.A. Cup... No, that was... Yeah, that's just initials.

I thought they were shouting. In their F.A. Cup semi-final clash with Southampton and flop in their bid for promotion to the second division. Who? Romark, real name Ronald Markham, claimed yesterday that Palace's success this season was all in the mind.

His mind. What? Now, Romark, I've checked out what he sounded like and I think he's from the North East, but he speaks with a RP accent. So I'm just going to do the drug dealer from withnell and i for his voice oh yes so up till now they have had a lot of luck in their games because i have been rooting for them he said are concentrated on making palace win romark now says

he will reverse the team's winning streak he will be concentrating on making the other side win which feels like explaining the story a bit more than is necessary. Yeah. Romark says he fell out with Big Mal because the manager broke an appointment at his office near Harley Street. That sort of thing makes me very angry, he said. The curse is due to start when Palace meet Bury in the third division, but I will

save its full power until next Saturday when they play Southampton in the Cup, said Romark. Southampton will destroy them. But Big Mal quickly countered Romark's tactics. Romark, who does he play for, he asked. What did he think about the curse? A load of old rubbish, said Big Mal.

It's a real 70s diss. Yeah, a load of old rubbish. It's a load of old rubbish. Imagine deciding that you're going to be an evil wizard. And doing that. What are you going to do with your powers? Have you heard of Crystal Palace Football Club? No.

You never will. Yeah. Not while I'm in charge. Oh, it's a very good choice to use the old, the Ralph Brown voice, by the way. Oh, yeah? In association with Crystal Palace, because their current manager, Roy Hodgson, has similar rhotic properties. Oh, really?

To his voice. Yes, Roy Hodgson. How very, very interesting. Oh, I see. It's one of my most favourite voices to do, but I very much change it to A.H. Corbett at the top of her hat. Yes, there's not a huge distinction

between the two voices there. No, my favourite song is Hidagada Davida. Which is hopefully a callback to the last episodes. Hidagada Davida. In October 1977, Romark embarked on his most

ambitious psychic feat. Darren Brown did the revolver thing, the Russian roulette thing. Yeah. David Blaine did the being in a box This is going to be even better than being in a box Houdini got punched by that man That's how he died, yep So that sort of didn't really work

Everyone talks about it Yep, that's true, yep Ron Mark decided he would prove his psychic powers By driving a car blindfolded Oh Yeah, two ten-pence pieces on each eye A little ball of dough on each eye And a blindfold wrapped around his head.

Where? Where? Where did he drive? I'll tell you where. Ilford. What? In Essex. Oh.

So he got in the car, fully blindfolded, sent out his psychic feelers, his tendrils into the world, started driving. James, how do you think he did? Really badly. Okay, you're going with really badly. So how would you quantify really badly? In yards, how far do you think he did? Really badly. Okay, you're going with really badly. So how would you quantify really badly? In yards, how far do you think he got? I think he probably, he had it in reverse or something

and didn't realise it just like smacked into a pole or just like ran over the Norris McWhirt or whoever was trying to adjudicate his attempt. He did possibly the only thing worse than those two scenarios. He drove 20 yards straight into the back of a parked police van what's an idiot he said it was in a place where logic told me it would not be parked yeah on the street really like they've got lights they're very noticeable they are noticeable but but not on the psychic plane i think the uh the problem was the uh the the black mariah as the daily mirror called it was parked in a psychic blind spot which think the problem was the Black Mariah, as the Daily Mirror called it, was

parked in a psychic blind spot, which is very irresponsible of the local bobbies. But that's what, when you're driving, you have to check your psychic blind spots. Well, that is the end of my Crystal Palace story, but I haven't covered the end of Crystal Palace itself. If I were to

go to the area of London called Crystal Palace, I'd be able to go to the area of London called Crystal Palace, I'd be able to go see this big old greenhouse, right? I'm playing devil's advocate. No, because you forgot that everything in England is a disappointment. And Crystal Palace itself burned down

in 1936. You know what they say about buildings made principally of iron and glass? They're always catching on fire, aren't they? People in glass houses shouldn't have fires. Yes, that's the saying. It was witnessed by Henry Bookland and his daughter, who was called Crystal. Coincidence?

Apparently she was named because he really liked the park. I think it sounds ripe for a conspiracy theory to me. Do you think it was an insurance job? I mean, I don't know who I would be libeling if I said that, but definitely yes. I remember there was some insane stat about it, though, at the height of its visiting. Like, in a year, everyone in London went three times or something ridiculous like that. Really? Yeah.

I remember as a kid reading about it and just loving it and being so sad that it didn't exist anymore. Yes. Yeah. Also, it's a bit sad because like central London's kind of cool and central London had Hyde Park. It was there in Hyde Park for a year. Hyde Park has forgotten about it. Crystal Palace is still going,

remember the palace? You remember the Crystal Palace? Yeah, it was alright, wasn't it? Because there isn't actually an area of London named Crystal Palace. Yeah, you're right. It's up at Norwood. There is no area of Crystal Palace. It's named after right. It's up at Norwood. There is no area of Crystal Palace. It's named after a building that's no longer there. Yeah, and also the Northwood

Vascon 2. Move on. Did that burn down or did that get smashed by vandals? Melted, bizarrely. Whole wood melted. Never seen the like. Something I noticed when going on a walk there around 2016, probably to take my

mind off 2016 which at that time was the worst year um i realized it was the 80th anniversary and it was around that time it had spent more time not being there than it was there because it was there for ages it spent more time not being there is a really weird sentence yeah especially as also there was loads of time when it wasn't there before it was there because it was there for ages it spent more time not being there is a really weird sentence yeah especially as also there was loads of time when it wasn't there before it was there from the big bang until yeah i think it might be time for some scores yeah all right okay so my first category for you is names crystal yeah crystal good name for a kid mary ferreri mary ferreri charles stebbins quite contrary ron Ronald Markham, a.k.a. Romark. Yeah, that's not that. Big Mal Allison, yeah.

Yeah. And, of course, we've got two guys who are both triple names. Thomas Webster Rammel and Benjamin Waterhouse Hawkins. They both sound like they're in trouble with their mums. But, Benjamin Waterhouse Hawkins, are you holding a dinner party in that iguana don? What about your friends on the little table? Invite them in as well.

I hope you brought enough inside of an iguanodon for everyone to sit in. Oh, the food they actually ate was, oh, it's all that really disgusting-sounding Victorian food, like mock turtle soup and woodcocks. Those are a type of bird, don't worry. Very chewy. And they had a choice of two types of jelly, don't worry. Very chewy. And they had a choice of two types of jelly.

Orange or Macedoine. What? I don't know what that is. Macedoine. That's going to go in for name, so I'm going to give you a four. A four, not bad. There's nothing right setting the Crystal Palace alight there for me. Unfortunately not.

All right, my next category, and I'm loathing about Supernatural. Okay. I warned you there were no ghosts. You did. I told you that. There was a sort of ghostly carriage and skeletons, which was made up for no discernible reason.

But there was a ghost train. Well, it was a train. You've got Romo. What's his name? Romark. Romark and his supernatural powers of of making crystal palace not be very good at football how do you explain crystal palace football club doing badly using science he floored muhammad ali yeah apparently did he trip him up did he hide behind a police

car and then jump out and trip him up. And also, in Supernatural, there's also dinosaurs, which are basically dragons, aren't they? They're terrible lizards. Yeah. That is a terrible lizard. I think it's two. What? Okay.

And that is generous, too. It should be a one, but we're in lockdown two, lockdowner, so I'm being nice. Lockdown two, secret of the ewes. Back in the habit of not going out all right next category inaccuracies right okay here we go now we're talking okay yeah can you hear me rubbing my hands together yes is that coming across on the mic it's not made of crystal it's not a palace nope it's not there uh that is not what dinosaurs look like young man it certainly

isn't you that ronald Markham can't drive blindfolded, or rather he can drive blindfolded, but shouldn't. What else was inaccurate? Oh, the woman's story. Pamela's account of falling through the ground. She was never able to lead people to where she fell through. Yes. The carriage of skeletons was never found.

I think it was inaccurate. The signatures on Romark's mum's cheques. They are inaccurate. Yes, very good. Okay, five. Five all the way. Yes. It's a strong five.

Take that, Supernatural. My final category is... Mwah, mwah, mwah. A.K.A. Bathos. Yeah. Disappointment. Yes.

Expectations, letdowns. Definitely. It's a lovely park, but if you go there looking for real dinosaurs, or a Crystal Palace... Or a port centre that doesn't seem derelict, even though it's still in use. If you were to see Crystal Palace playing Southampton in the Cup in 1976, you were in for a disappointment. If you attempt to go and see Crystal Palace Football Cup

and you go to Crystal Palace Station, you're in for a disappointment. You're in the wrong place. You've got a long walk. You want to go to Norwood Junction Station or Selhurst. Thornton Heath, pal. You idiot. Don't base your travel on the names of places. No.

Who does that? First time, is it? Yeah. Oh, you've made a mistake. No, no, no. Are your heads taking the sights on the way to the game? They burned down 80 years ago. Watch out for the iguana, don't.

It is quite nice, though. There's a weird niceness to it, because when you go to see where the palace was, the stairs up to it are still there. Yeah, sort of the outline of it is there. So there's like these really grand stairs to nothing. It's the essence of wah, wah, wah. It is, though, yeah.

The water all stinks, and I've seen so many rats there. And that wraps up our broadcast for the South London Tourist Board. Yeah. The water stinks and there's lots of rats. I'm going to have to give you a four, though. What?

Because that's a bit disappointing as well. You got me. You used my own powers against me. I did. Like Romark did Muhammad Ali. Is that what he did? I don't know. Stop hitting yourself, Muhammad.

I assume he used his own strength against him because using Romark's strength against Muhammad Ali would have been a big mistake. There's not enough of it. No. That was the story of Crystal Palace, the place where the Lawman podcast began, sort of. I really miss it.

You miss me? You miss living near me? Yeah. It didn't jump in too quickly there. Yes, yes. I'm going to have to edit down the pause before you said that. If you'd like to support our endeavours in any way at all, you can get on the old Patreon. Yes, patreon.com forward slash lawmenpod. And there's all sorts of goodies.

Come and get your goodies. And keep an eye out for some merch coming by. Goodies. Come by. come by I just wanted to mention a shout out for the funicular oh yeah big fan of funiculars yep yep yep

and look up the original escalator oh yeah the original escalator was like a corkscrew affair that was on one of the London underground stations like a moving spiral staircase so bloody moving yeah it was a spiral staircase escalator the very first escalator big fan of escalators i like them because some somebody looked at stairs and thought too slow looked at a lift and thought too quick

too far can i have yeah yeah something a little bit in betweeny, please? I'm not that much of a rush. Yeah, I still want the feel of going upstairs. Yeah, I just don't want to actually go upstairs. Can the stairs go up instead? Yeah, can we have stairs, but where the stairs do it? And I don't. But it's still stairs, please.

But it's still stairs, please. Yeah.