Loremen Podcast - S3 Ep47: Loremen S3 Ep47 - Andrew O'Neill - Weird Milton Keynes

Episode Date: November 26, 2020

This episode comes from the much derided and profoundly strange city of Milton Keynes. The Lorepokes are joined by comedy maverick, steampunk pioneer and practising ritual magician Andrew O’Neill. MK’s ultra-modernist architecture conceals a cursed elm tree, a diabolical neighbour and a time-travelling windmill. Learn the secret of invisibility from Aleister Crowley, try to avoid the Illuminati and DO NOT EAT THE MYSTERY JELLY. You have been warned. Loreboys nether say die! Support the Loremen here (and get stuff) patreon.com/loremenpod ko-fi.com/loremen @loremenpod www.twitch.tv/loremenpod www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod @JamesShakeshaft | @MisterABK

Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm Alastair Beckett-King. And I'm James Shakeshaft. And this episode has got references to MKUltra. Yeah, the CIA mind control programme. A cameo from Alistair Crowley. The wickedest man in the world, 1904. Yeah, until Noel Edmonds took the title from him.

Yeah. But most excitingly, we have guest lawperson Andrew O'Neill bringing us the weirdest tales from Milton Keynes. Oh, and Alistair, you name your EP. Do I? Yeah, it's a very good name. We'll let you know at the end what it was. We'll listen out for that then. Yeah.

James Shakespeare, hello. Hello, Alistair Beckett-King. How are you? Oh, thank you for the full name. That's a rare treat. Do you have any middle names? James. What? My middle name is James. Really?

Yeah. My full name is Alistair James Shakespeare Beckett-King. That's good. I like that for some reason. Yeah, it's got a nice ring to it, hasn't it? Yeah. I'm not going to beat around the bush. I've got a deputy law person for you, James, which I'm very excited about. Go on, then. Should I just pull back the curtain and waste no more time?

Because they've been in there for a while. I want to meet them. Okay. It is comedian, musician, and I think magician, Andrew O'Neill. Hello, Andrew. Good morning. Good morning to you. Hello, Andrew.

Good afternoon. Time traveller? I should have said time traveller. I just want to pretend that we were on the cusp of midday you. Hello, Andrew. Good afternoon. Time traveller. I should have said time traveller. Just want to pretend that we were on the cusp of midday there. Get it covered. I should also add, you're also a vegan. So if anyone is playing the lawmen drinking game, take a shot of soy milk now, because I've mentioned veganism.

Can we mention your band name as well to get that out the way? Yeah, my band is called The Men That Will Not Be Blamed For Nothing. I'm presuming our audience will be getting that reference. I think they will, but if there are any newcomers, if there are any nerds in the listenership, that I think is a reference to popular East Londoner Jack the Ripper. That's right, yeah. The Galston Street graffiti that almost certainly wasn't left by

the Whitechapel murderer due to him having other stuff on that day. Yeah, people forget about how good he was at admin. That's the thing about Jack the Ripper. We started this self-consciously steampunk band at the time because there were no good steampunk bands. And I stick by the fact that there were no good steampunk bands when we started. And we quite liked the steampunk aesthetic

and the kind of playfulness of it. So we wanted to do an actual punk band. And so we had loads and loads of really, we look back at now, really badly cliched steampunk names that we were considering calling ourselves. And I've done a show about Jack the Ripper and From Hell by Alan Moore as my favourite book of all time. So yeah, so we struck upon that. We've burst out of the steampunk thing and we do, you know,

so we cover a lot of other ground now. And, you know, I think steampunk, I find it absolutely amazing how a subculture that's built out of smashing together the past and the future can feel so 2007. That was when the past and future met, 2007. I suppose that was the point, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was the exact transition point. We stopped being the past and future met, 2007 I suppose that was the point, yeah

That was the exact transition point It stopped being the past and it started being the future So we've brought you into the lawmen fold, Andrew To talk about the place where you live Which is, I think it's got to be one of the strangest places in the UK Yeah Where is it? I live in New Bradwell

Which is the top part, the northernmost part of Milton Keynes. Milton Keynes. Milton Keynes. And we moved here sort of against our will. We've been here for almost exactly a year. We moved here because my wife's sister died and so we moved up to basically raise her niece. I'm so sorry to hear that.

It's been quite a year, one way or another. And New Bradwell is next to Wolverton, which is the world's first railway town. Is that Wolverhampton? No. It's a different place. It's like that without the ham. It's a vegan version of Wolverhampton, yeah. Okay, cool, cool, cool. Just checking.

Wolverton is ancient, but there was nothing much here in the middle of the 19th century and they decided they needed somewhere roughly between London and Birmingham to repair trains the world's first railway town sounds great until you realize that there's nowhere else to go yes absolutely it's not it's not that exciting until somewhere else has a railway there's a good few years just like the sort of phony war at the beginning of this is going to be great it's definitely going to be great there's going to be all sorts of train-based advantages to living here just sitting on the platform leaning forward in my seat just i can't wait um so and then new bradwell is a sort of extension of that so the it's odd that we live in milton

keynes but we actually live in a victorian terrace there are small what i've discovered in looking into milton keynes there are small old villages which have been engulfed by milton keynes yeah american listeners might not realize milton keynes is a strange place because it was it was built on purpose which is true of almost no british cities in the 1960s and it's weird because it has long straight streets it's built on a grid system so which would be familiar i guess to some americans but it has roundabouts yeah all the intersections so it's a weird mix of uh of the american and the british yeah it looks bizarre on a map it doesn't look like it doesn't look like how british towns look and it feels bizarre there's no there's no like the middle of it there's no sort of psychogography because none of it's organic you everywhere in

milton king's feels like you're on the outskirts there's there's no town of psychogography because none of it's organic you everywhere in Milton Keynes feels like you're on the outskirts there's there's no town centre it was built for cars basically which actually means that things like there's really good cycle lane network so that that kind of balances it out but it it feels soulless it really feels soulless and then sort of not really not far from the station which isn't quite in the middle there are ancient looking thatched cottages and stuff and it's it is it is really strange it's a very strange place in in sort of lots of different ways and then it's also slightly self-consciously strange because it was it was designed and built in the mid 60s by young architects and so the the kind of counterculture

of the 60s crept in so there's loads of self-consciously bordering on occult aspects. And what I find amazing is there are then kind of conspiracy theories of like, oh, it's built by the Illuminati. No, it was built by young 60s architects. Like, yeah, I mean, we know the names of the people who built it. Exactly, yeah. There's a lot of conspiracy theories. MK, Milton Keynes, MK Ultra.

Huh? Coincidence? Yeah. Yes, that is a coincidence. And it's built on the Midsummer Ley line, apparently. Yeah. So Midsummer Boulevard, which is the street right in the middle,

on Midsummer Day, the sun rises right up the middle of the street. So it's oriented towards the Midsummer sunrise. That is creepy, isn't it? That's cool. It's great midsummer sunrise. That is creepy, isn't it? That's cool. It's great. That's the same in New York, isn't it? Who do you think built New York?

The Illuminati, James. Oh, of course it was the blooming Illuminati, wasn't it? Yeah. They got their fingerprints all over it, if they had fingerprints. Oh, no, they didn't. Well, the lizard prints. It's more like scales.

Ah, right. So, wait a minute, wait a minute. What happens when the clocks change? Does everyone have to move? Yeah The whole town revolves on a giant lazy Susan Everyone has to move one street Okay cool

They were definitely dabbling with psychedelics Those architects There's no doubt about it They must have been And we have our own stone circle as well Which is And I've done magic in that stone circle And it works as a stone circle

Because that's what they are I referred to you as a magician circle because that's what they are. I referred to you as a magician, and I didn't mean that in the... Paul Daniels sense. In the uncool sense that I was into magic when I was younger. You're practising... What is the PC term? Warlock? Well, I use the term ritual magician. Ritual magician.

Yeah, I practise ritual magic. It's all Alan Moore's fault. I mean, everything in my life is pretty much alan moore's fault um and i um i started i i dabbled in it and then was was almost annoyed that it worked because i had a really sort of materialist kind of dawkinsy atheist worldview and then the irrational approach started working and yeah it was a massive shift in my thinking um and yeah and i've kept up i've done it for about 15 years or so and and it always works it usually works in ways you don't expect it often works in ways that are annoying and you know you do get what you ask for you don't necessarily get what you want so is it so like the sort of the classic trickster genie thing of you get it,

but not quite as you expected? Is that holds true? Absolutely, yeah. Wow. Yeah, absolutely. You have to be really, really careful and really, really specific because if you ask for loads of money, you know, there are lots of ways you can get money that are this compensation

for horrific misfortune. It continues to disappoint me that there's no evidence that there is a secret society that has all the magical knowledge. Because I used to assume that, for example, the royal family, they would probably know all this stuff and practice it, but they don't. And things like the orientation of cities that were self-consciously built don't seem to actually have real magical knowledge behind it.

It's less about a body of knowledge and more about just having a go in it, you know, an attitude to belief. I consider myself a global agnostic, so I fundamentally distrust all of my own beliefs. But then on top of that, you have to trust that gravity, friction, things like that work, otherwise you're never going to be able to walk to the that, you have to trust that gravity, friction, things like that work, otherwise you're never going to be able to walk to the shop.

You know about Andrew? They say they don't believe in friction. It's been a nightmare, slipping all over the place. And thus becomes sort of ice skater based. Maybe the royals do know about it though, because if you say that you get what you want, but not necessarily in the way that you wanted it. Maybe like, for example, Prince Andrew heard, I know know it's not wishing but it in essence wished for you know i never want to have to pay for a pizza express in woking ever again now the guy eats for free this whole not sweating

their need you know the lack of perspiration there's something yeah i mean alice crowley believed that he could render himself invisible. There's an amazing story about him walking into the middle of a cafe in full robes. He's got a huge staff and he's in full ceremonial gear. Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law. Love under will. And a diner said to the waiter, who's that?

He said, oh, don't worry, sir. It's just Mr. Crowley being invisible. it's just Mr Crowley being invisible. That's not so much of a magic power as that is just Englishness in effect. No one seemed to have noticed me. We've all lived in London and we've all had encounters with wizards of that sort. Absolutely, yeah.

The easiest thing to do is to get on with reading Private Eye or whatever you're doing. Yeah, totally. During the building of Milton Keynes, or rather just before, when the spot was chosen, I had always assumed the name came from Milton Friedman and John Maynard Keynes, I think is how it's pronounced. I'd always assumed the name had been created, but it's not. It just comes from Middleton de Keynes, a small village of Milton Keynes Village, which is still there.

I used to think the same thing. And then before we moved here, I bought this wonderful book, Mysterious Milton Keynes. Ah, yes. By James Willis, which is the most self-published thing I've ever read. In my notes, I've got a little bit of Willis's research. Next to the word unlikely is the only thing it says next to it so yeah he digs into all that kind of mk mk ultra all that sort of stuff he has a whole chapter in that which just

is to headed the rothschilds and that is where i start to recoil slightly well the thing is that there is all based here so if it if it is supposed to be this kind of center of power you know it really babe station is the headquarters of centre of power, you know, it really... Babe Station is... The headquarters of Babe Station is in Milton Keynes. So I don't know, maybe there is something in it. I mean, there's mind control. The babes don't seem to be making their own choices. You know, they're receiving messages and they're acting not of their own volition.

That's pretty MKUltra. In the chapter marked Cryptozoology and Alien Invaders, there's a heading, Strange Jelly. And I just want you to listen for the absolute absence of citation. For hundreds of years, a strange jelly-like substance, which is said to evaporate or disappear shortly after

it has fallen, has been reported throughout the UK and other parts of the world. Historically the rot of the stars or star jelly due to the belief that it'd fallen from meteor showers this mysterious goo is particularly prevalent in and around newport pagnol citation needed theories abound as to the true origin of this gelatinous slime, some have postulated, who are some, that birds have eaten frogs and toads and then regurgitated the toxin-filled oviducts. Others suggest that the substance is a type of mould, animal vomit after birth, or even an alien or paranormal agent.

Tests on the matter have proved inconclusive, and whilst the jelly is generally accepted to be of organic origin, the only indisputable fact is that nobody knows for sure where it comes from and it's delicious something about the way that's written is it's got the tone of a very angry neighborhood watch round robin saying well a jelly was found the only thing we know about it is that nobody is admitting to um to where it came from some people think it's number 33 eating frogs it's one thing that they leave their bins out it's another thing that when they put them in there's a mysterious

star jelly underneath them what is have you have any of you seen this muck no i haven't i've never seen any mystery i've never heard tell of this muck before, which apparently is all over the UK. But then it's like modern pop music for me. Have you listened to the top ten in the last couple of years? I admit I have not. Are the Arctic Monkeys still a new band? Yes, they are.

Yeah, brand new. It's a very, very, very unsettling experience, particularly if you're really into music. All of the music in the top so we my partner and i listened to it a couple of weeks ago we listened to the top three songs and they all made us think of being in an uber do you think it's some subliminal advertising i think it could be for uber yeah yeah maybe it is maybe they're using the same technology as Babe Station. Now you're the babe.

This is why we moved here in the first place. You mentioned Newport Pagnol there. According to Julie Wilson's book, Haunted Places in Newport Pagnol, Newport Pagnol in Buckinghamshire is believed to be the most haunted town in Britain. What? Now, what that doesn't say is that it's believed to be the most haunted town in Britain by Julie Wilson, the author of Haunted Places in Newport Pagnol. Oh, but that's inferred. It's like when you're at school and you write an essay, they

say, don't put I think at the start. It could be argued that Newport Pagnol is the, and she does argue that it beats Pluckley and Kent's 12 to 16 ghosts with an alleged 24 ghosts. However, those include three grey ladies that she counts separately and two grey soldiers, which I think is

I think she's fudging the numbers. Hey, let's not be Greysist. Not all Grey spirits are the same. I'm feeling a Trump style need for a recount and Rudy Giuliani to get involved in these numbers. I saw the Dems driving

up with vans full of Grey ladies. Illegal ghosts. Yeah, if we just count the legal ghosts, I don't think we've got a problem. I don't want to imply, though, that Milton Keynes hasn't got any valid law. I don't want to imply it's all just horrible jellies and miscounted ghosts.

Wait a minute, is Newport Pagnol in Milton Keynes? Newport Pagnol is sort of the... It's odd because it's just the other side of the M1. So if you imagine the circle that is Milton Keynes, and then the M1 goes up the side of it, and the Newport Pagnol is a little bubble on the other side of it. So most of the ghosts I've found belong to these little sort of satellites of the Great Orb. Yeah, yeah.

The places with actual history, yeah. So in Milton Keynes' village, there was apparently an old elm tree that was cursed when milton keen's was about to be built the daily mail reported on a old superstition that if that tree were cut down no more babies would be born in that village or depending on who you ask no more male babies would be born in that village and the tree eventually succumbed to like most elm trees in the uk to dutch elm disease which is um a disease where the trees appear at a quirky crooked angle that's a very good filmmaking joke um you shouldn't need to add that oh yes yeah yeah yeah but apparently the uh the tree was eventually hit by a car and did die and james Willis has done his research and he argues

that no, because essentially the hospital in which children are usually born isn't in Milton Keynes village, which is a very small part of Milton Keynes now. Technically since then no baby boys have been born in that village. So the curse has come true.

That illustrates that thing of careful what you wish for, because it's sort of, if you're right, I'm going to curse you. No more children shall be born. Oh, they moved the hospital. All right. Now it's just no home births in Milton Keynes Village.

It's not quite the curse. It's not children of men, is it? If we're sticking with the dodgy claims for a second, Bradwell Windmill is allegedly home to the ghost of a miller's daughter who died a tragic death on the upper floor in 1685, which sounds great until I remind you that Bradwell Windmill was built in 1803. Oh, no. So where she was murdered, how she was murdered on the upper floor of a building that didn't exist for a couple of hundred years is particularly spooky.

That windmill is a five-minute walk from my house. Is it? So that's right where I am, yeah. Am I right in thinking then if you're on the north end, you would be not that far from the village of Olney? Yes. So Olney is where my mother-in-law lives. Oh.

And Olney is where it's all kicking off, supernatural-wise. A lot of jelly. It's better than jelly. What? James, the devil lived there. Oh! He didn't visit. It's not an appearance of the devil James, the devil lived there. Oh! He didn't visit. It's not an appearance of the devil.

No, no, no. You know the way Nick Cave lives in Brighton and everyone just leaves him alone? That's how the devil lived for a distinct period of time, according to Oliver Ratcliffe's 1907 book, in Olney. And there are several stories of what he got up to while he lived there. Is it handy for the train line, I guess? Very convenient. You know that he was a big fan of the trains. He couldn't wait

for them to get started. On the subject of fun names, one of the stories of the devil in Olney connects two locations, one called Whirly Pit and the other called Sway Gog. Those are great. Those are pretty great names. I think I'd rather go to the Whirly Pit. The devil decided to go for both. He was riding with his coach on four headless

horses and headless horsemen. Wow. You don't normally get both. How do you keep the reins on a headless horse? I assume it goes under the, I want to call them arms. Under the armpit. Front legs. Fore legs. Oh, fore legs is confusing. Yeah.

There's the fore legs and then there's the other two legs. That's an insect. They're all right when you're accelerating, but when you brake, you have to pop the reins back on afterwards. Well, that's why he didn't brake. you break you have to pop the reins back on afterwards well that's why he didn't break and he drove right into whirly pit the devil charged around underground as far as goosey bridge and then burst out of the ground in the middle of the meadow and that meadow is still said to sway sway as if shuddering at the recollection of that fearful night wowee yeah i mean it really undermines that story The silly names

Like the devil Crashed his cart here And rode around underground Really angry And where did he come out A goosey hole Goosey bridge yeah Yeah

A whirly pit Yes yes It was called a whirly pit I said that everybody Just left the devil alone But actually that's not true One nosy neighbour Kept leaning her head

Out of her window to look at him in his house just going about his business just making his morning coffee and stuff you would though you would well she earned her lesson he caused great horns to grow on her head so that she could no longer pull her head back in you know like when a kid puts their head through the bars yeah and then the problem is the ears. The ears have been designed like medieval arrows. They go in easily and they do not come out. And so she was stuck there. Maybe this is the explanation for all the headlessness.

Yes. If the devil is causing people's heads to get stuck in stuff, but he still needs to get places. And the trains haven't been built yet. The trains haven't been built yet, yeah. And I suppose if they are headless horsemen, no wonder they got lost in the whirly pit navigating would be a nightmare no sat nav no signal the cool the coolest thing that's very local here is an abandoned church called st peter's church which again is about maybe a 10 minute walk from here you follow the

canal along towards newport pagnol and then you go down into this wonderful open field and it's sort of downhill to a small abandoned church. It was abandoned in 1953, like the roof caved in but there was a town down there called Stanton Low and it's mysteriously depopulated

and the very unsubstantiated story, but a really nice one, that it was a werewolf scare. Oh. You say that as if that is a recognised category of scare. It turns out, so I do a monthly film show with my partner called the Full Moon Online Drive-In. So we do it on every full moon,

and we just did an American werewolf in London. And it turns out that throughout Europe, alongside the witch scares, there there were werewolf scares and it was quite gendered and the there was one just down the road from here so in in 1485 there was a werewolf panic loads of livestock were slaughtered and it was blamed on werewolves and then in 1520 thomas pipe was captured by a militia and accused of shapeshifting. He was taken into St Peter's Church, and they performed a sort of exorcism stroke interrogation of him. He writhed and snarled, cursing that Stanton Lowe would never again thrive as a homestead,

and the church building would crumble to dust. Then he emitted a wolf-like howl and died. Wow. And then only 500 years later the church did crumble to dust that sounds pretty conclusive yeah i have i have one last exorcism for you as well from my research which is why isn't the devil in only to this day gentrification can we be 1970s comedians for a while? My mother-in-law lives there. My mother-in-law. Yeah.

So she was down the two brewers, which is the pub that the devil used to drink in, in Olney. Did he? Yeah, he used to drink in that pub. Yeah, he had a local, James. Never bought a round, I suppose. He's a bloke.

He's a geezer. He's a blooming bloke. One of the lads. A classic top-class lad slash legend legend there with his Ben Sherman shirt. They didn't like him drinking there. He used to play pranks. He used to make the innkeepers dance against their will, that sort of thing. And so 13 priests exercised him, not one at a time.

13 priests. The classic number of priests. They got 13 priests and the priests came in. They performed an exorcism. They said, we banish you for 100 years from the two bre of priests. They got 13 priests and the priests came in, they performed an exorcism and they said, we banish you for 100 years from the two brewers pub. And the devil, because he's the devil,

went like, no, I'm not going to, that's too long. You're not going to bar me for 100 years. And so they negotiated and one of the priests said, okay, well, what about

you're barred until this candle, you know, because they had the bell, the book and the candle. BBC. Classic paraphernalia. How about this? You'll be banished until this candle has burned out. And the devil agreed to that.

And so the priest very quickly blew the candle out and threw it down a well. Nice. Oh, I like that priest. That's really nice. Very clever priest. Not often I say that. This is before that system whereby if you get barred from one pub, all the other pubs then get wired a picture of you

and you get barred from the other. Oh, yes. Yeah, they've just got a picture of them under the bar, along with people who try and steal from the optics. Devil watch. I think it's time to move into the scoring section of the Lawmen podcast. Would you agree? I'm ready for it. The first category, and I feel

fairly confident about this, is supernatural. What do you mean hum, James? Hum. Hum. I just want to just check over stuff. So we've got the devil's home address. Yeah, exactly. Not an appearance by the devil like most stories.

We've got the devil's residence. At the very least for business purposes, that's where he lives. He's on the electoral register there. We've got the neighbor of the beast we do indeed yes yeah disappointingly he didn't live at number 666 in milton keynes itself you've got no male children being born in milton de keen village in milton's keynes village yep no no male children being born there a supernatural amount of babes yes a whole station a whole station manned

by babes. Well, that could be linked to the fact that no male children were born. There was a surfeit of babes. So they had to find employment. Yeah, good on them for being entrepreneurial. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've got Bradwell Windmill with It's Impossible Upstairs Ghost. Explain

that with logic. I'd someone dying on a ladder i was imagining perhaps a bird of prey yes elevated them at the exact moment of death yeah altitude yeah yeah that's possible dropped them and they died of shock just before they hit the ground you're not going to know that from an autopsy certainly not with the technology they would have had in those days no the only way you would know that would... Would be via ghost. Well, check where the ghost appears. There's that ghostly mutt

everywhere and it gets everywhere. Mystery jelly. The only thing everybody can agree on is that this is probably something that James Willett made up.

And you've got Newport Pagnol which is allegedly the most haunted town in Britain. Yeah. And the werewolf scare of Stanton Low.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, I forgot one more. Whoa. It's just one more fact that I forgot to include which I really like the most haunted town in britain yeah and the werewolf scare of stanton low yeah yeah oh i forgot one more whoa it's just one more fact that i forgot to include which i really like which is the elm trees are really spooky you know there's the the cursed elm tree the elm tree this is a little factlet here's what they say about the elm that elm hateth man and waiteth because of its tendency to unexpectedly drop boughs and kill people on the very still days. Oh, wow. Widowmakers. That's pretty creepy, right? That is, yes.

And Nightmare on Elm Street, of course. Yeah, exactly. It's not Nightmare on Pine Avenue. There you go. What was it that this elm... Someone hid it with a car. Yes. Why? What was it doing? If the elm tree ever died or was removed, then there would be no more babies born in Milton Keynes Village. And that has happened. Who said that, though?

The tree? They said that, James. They said? It was said. Right. It was reported in the Daily Mail, so it's got to be true. Oh, then. In the mid-60s.

Right. Yeah. That lot. So I think the journalists of Fleet Street check their sources, James. They don't just write any old nonsense. They don't take it from any old tree. Yeah, that's very spooky. I think it's got to be five, James. Don't just write any old nonsense. They don't take it from any old tree. Yeah, that's very spooky. I think it's got to be five, really.

Yes, thank you. It's fully supernatural. Five out of five. Good. Are you happy with that, Andrew? Yeah, I am. And it makes me feel happier living here. Yeah.

You might not be aware, but not everyone does this well on the first round. So well done. Good, good, good, good. Second category is naming what were the quality of the names in this story and i would remind you of not just goosey bridge but whirly pit and sway gog sway gog yeah is that is that sway sway gog how you spell in sway like the word sway like sway okay reminds me of gog and mag of Gog and Magog. Yeah, is it Gog and Magog? Yeah, as in Gog and Magog, yes.

That is the meadow. Isn't there something odd about the street name conventions in Milton Keynes as well? I spotted a couple of serial killers as I was looking. On Google Street View? Yeah, they're all things like Shipman Street. Really? Fred West Avenue.

Is he? Yeah. Jack the Ripper Close. Yeah, always So aside from the serial killer road names Which may have been made up There's also a blind pond I didn't tell you about blind pond

A blind pond? James Willis says that in the 19th century It was revered as Britain's very own Bermuda Triangle Regularly swallowing coaches You would think if that were true That there would be some record in a book written not by James Willis of any of that being true. Regularly swallowing coaches.

I was once waiting at Milton Keynes coach station and my coach didn't arrive. So maybe that's... Or where else could it have been than the bottom of Blind Pond? The big problem with that claim is that there's no way people in the 19th century revered anything as Britain's Bermudauda triangle because the concept of the bermuda triangle

wasn't current yeah that's nonetheless blind pond good name for a pond line pond is good yeah yeah great name for a pond it's high but like milton keynes is like one of those names that's synonymous absolutely that has a reaction doesn't it when you hear it it's sort of the croydon of buckinghamshire i could only hear it there was an advert wasn't there, in the 80s or 90s? In Milton Keynes. Yeah, was it like a psychic or something? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was outing a couple as having an affair.

Yes. So whenever I hear Milton Keynes, I hear it in that voice of Milton Keynes. I think it was Time for a Sharp Exit, wasn't it? Ah, yes. I think you're right. I'm going to have to push you for a score there, James. Come on, these names are good. They're good names.

Dutch Elm, English Elm, Witch Elm. Stop naming Elms. You can't make me. This isn't Babe Station. Three. I'm going to go three. Three. I love Twirly.

What's it called? The Twirly Hole. Yes, fair enough. I'm not going to check. Yes, the Twirly Hole. Next category. That Town Ain't Right. That Town Ain't Right. Yes, fair enough. I'm not going to check. Yes, the twirly hole. Next category. That town ain't right. That town ain't right.

Yeah, something's gone wrong. Every aspect of Milton Keynes when you look at it, it's like a fractal. Yeah. New strangeness emerges, but it never solidifies into anything coherent

or with any citations. Straight roads and roundabouts. What's going on? An abandoned town. I think the lack of citations makes all of these mysteries much more mysterious. And do you know the spooky thing is that there's

literally no evidence it ever happened. That is right up my street. Yeah, you have stumbled upon the essence of this podcast there, Andrew. We've been on this territory before. They filmed some of Superman there as well. Did they?

In Milton Keynes. Superman 4, The Quest for Peace. So like an abandoned planet or something? No, I think it was the offices of the Daily Planet in Milton Keynes. It's like when Murdoch moved away from Fleet Street to save money. The Daily Planet have moved out to Milton Keynes. Yes. Because the rents are lower.

Yeah. Well, it's easy for Superman to commute. That is true. Faster than a train that lower. Yeah. Well, it's easy for Superman to commute. That is true. Faster than a train that hasn't been built yet, certainly. Right. Right is what that town ain't, James. Yeah. Not saying it's wrong, but it ain't right.

The fact that people keep talking about it, and I don't think anyone trusts Milton Keynes, do they? Absolutely not. No. Is it because it was a created town or is that our innate sort of British distrust of newfangled things? And of ambition in a way.

You know, the sort of the optimistic 1960s post-war planners. Their idea that things could be better. We're sceptical of that. You don't come in and say you're a city. You know, you start off as an isolated dwelling and then you attract a city you know you start off as a isolated dwelling and then you attract some other houses yeah Milton Keynes is very much like an arrogant open spot comedian yeah with a lot of opinions I think it's gonna be a five yes sorry Andrew because you live there but that town

ain't right we are moving don't worry which means I could do the podcast again doesn't it because when I move well from I mean you could pretty much just make something up about Milton Keynes if you want to come on again. That's what James did. That's the great thing about Milton Keynes, yeah. Any new law you want, you can just fabricate. Final category. So they say...

So they say... I've capitalised they. This is referencing the fact that almost none of this is sourced or cited because the writers that have chosen to write about Milton Keynes don't recognise those conventions. But also, it's the they of the Illuminati. It's the them. The them, yeah.

The mysterious them. Who are they? Yes. The designers of Milton Keynes. What were they trying to do, though? What was their plan? Oh, you're actually asking, right. Oh, no, that wasn't rhetorical that was

you're just speculating i said it in a sort of rhetorical voice it's why i don't find out a lot of things that i want to find out because i do it like that how much is a first class stamp 70p there's i suppose there's theories about what they were trying to do create a mystical powerhouse mystical powerhouse mystical powerhouse is one of the theories but they ended up with a babe station somewhere for people to live that wasn't London

yep I mean that's a possibility reasonably successful you could argue not only is it not London it's not anywhere near as good or nice as London so that's two things it's got going for it there I live near Croydon which has both for it there. I live near Croydon, which has both of those qualities. I grew up near Croydon, and this very much feels like a retrograde step. I go to Bambury a lot.

Is that Bambury of the cock horse fame? Yes, ride a cock horse. Real type of horse. Type of horse. I'm not going to bleep it. Yeah, we're quoting poetry, I think. Yeah, ride a cock horse to Bambury. Cross. It's one of those subliminal instructions. You'll all be doing it now, like the babes at Babe Station. not gonna bleep it yeah we're quite in poetry i think yeah ride a cock horse to bambury cross

it's one of those subliminal instructions you'll all be doing it now like the babes at babe station you'll be in bambury you don't even in your pajamas what were they thinking was it that the architects were inspired by occult teachings or is it just an accident i think it was more that they thought it was quite a cool idea. Because if you look at, okay, what is the advantage of having a road called Midsomer Boulevard, whereby the midsummer sunrise rises along that street? What's the purpose of that? Accidents, one day a year.

It hasn't unlocked anything. It doesn't, you know, it doesn't achieve anything other than that. You know, how should we orient the road? Why don't we do it like that? Well, I suppose that's the thing. If you're building a road, you've got to put it in some direction. Absolutely. Yeah, exactly. It's not like the first train track that doesn't have to go anywhere, but that's what they'd want us to think.

Isn't it? That's very much what they'd want us to think. So I think they are up to something. Yep. If there's lots of rumours about you being a lizard person, would you brag about not being able to swim? Yeah, it's a real sort of third act of a sitcom move where he escalates a situation he has caused

by trying to fix it and actually making things an awful lot worse. It's a full-on Basil Forty move, isn't it? It is. It belongs in farce. It's a full-on Basil Forty move, isn't it? Yeah, it is. It belongs in farce. It's one of those bits where you start watching between your fingers in a sitcom and you're like, how? No. I can only assume he lives in one of those rooms with loads of different connecting

doors and people are constantly coming in and leaving and probably there's a dead body in the cupboard. Not an actual allegation, just to be clear. Yeah, that's a reference to Joe Orton's loot, not a libelous statement. Yeah, I'm going to have to say a five because otherwise they're going to be after me.

Yeah, that's the last thing you want. That's five for they. We don't know anything. Please don't hurt us. Yeah, I mean, I'm confident they are listening. So thank you for that. And thank you, Andrew, for being a deputy law person. You're very welcome.

You do so many things and you're doing lots of online stuff. Would you like to plug some of it to our listeners? My Patreon, patreon.com slash Andrew O'Neill. I'm making videos and shows and music and that sort of thing. And I'm on all the social media. And I do online shows every week. And I'm trying to mix it up so that people aren't seeing the same stuff every time. And I've bought backdrop banners and everything.

So it looks nice now. Once a month we do Fmod, which is the full moon online drive-in, which is our cult film show. And then we watch a film. What's the next one? Next full moon is Flash Gordon. Nice. On the 30th of November. And the Troy Club we do

monthly as well. Thank you so much. Please check out Andrew's opus, which means work. Which means body of work. Just to be clear. Oh, not their special pearl. Cheers lads So what was my EP James? I think you'll have spotted it It was of course

Straight Roads and Roundabouts Brackets What's Going On That's a good album That's a good EP And if you'd like to support my burgeoning folk career, get onto the old Patreon, patreon.com forward slash lawmenpod. Yeah, there's all sorts of goodies for our supporters.

There's field reports. There's extra episodes. We've got some extra questions with Andrew, which is a very, very fascinating little interview. Get yourself some goodies. Oh, yes, definitely. They exist. You have been listening to Straight Roads and Roundabouts.

Brackets, what's going on? With me, Alistair Baker-King, featuring... Me, James Shakespeare. There you go. I just got caught short there because i was thinking if i'm gonna try and design a cover for that album featuring little jimmy shakes on vibes on the triangle the most powerful shape on the piccalilly is that that's the source that's food isn't it yeah it's a spread it's a sauce. That's food, isn't it? Yeah, it's a spread. It's a very English spread. I just brought some piccalilli along to the studio in case anyone fancied a sandwich.