Loremen Podcast - S3 Ep49: Loremen S3 Ep49 - The Legend of Sawney Bean

Episode Date: December 10, 2020

The Loremen are on the hunt for British werewolves, but it turns out the scariest thing of all… is the truth. James and Alasdair uncover grisly stories of cannibalism, Sunny Delight and the world’s deadliest Bean. This episode features some of the least accurate animal facts in podcast history. You’ll never look at a weasel’s ear the same way again. Loreboys nether say die! Support the Loremen here (and get stuff): patreon.com/loremenpod ko-fi.com/loremen @loremenpod www.twitch.tv/loremenpod www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod @JamesShakeshaft | @MisterABK  

Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm Alistair Beckett-King. And I'm James Shakeshaft. And we have had multiple requests for an episode about werewolves. Like two. It's easily in the twos. It's double figures. And so I went away and I did some research and you went away and researched wolf facts.

Yep. And I came back with stories about horrible Scottish people. Yeah. I hate to continue the anti-Scottish bias that the podcast is showing. But hey, they're facts. Yeah, they're not really facts. They're legends. I bring you the tale of Sawny Bean.

Jimothy. You told me that it was your 40th birthday, so I thought I would finally address you with appropriate gravitas and your full name. Jimothy. I was just going to call you Alistairothy. Alist Dorothy. Alist Dorothy. I like it.

What does the F in your name stand for? Because when you send me the files to edit, my name is ABK, Alistair Baker King, and yours is JFS. I read JFS as James james shakeshaft every time like like amanda palmer jfs what does it stand for franklin no francis yes it is francis it's francis yeah nice because my granddad jimmy shakeshaft eeg his dad was actually called francis james but everyone called him jim so he did better than his dad was actually called Francis James, but everyone called him Jim.

So he did better than his dad's nickname, obviously. That's Donkey's kid. Donkey, oh yeah, yeah. So I thought I would sit down and try and find an English werewolf. Yes, there was old Stinker, of course. Yeah, we mentioned one in Andrew O'Neill's episode about Milton Keynes and there's old Stinker who follows us on Twitter. Yeah, that's worrying, isn't it? Yeah, it's very unusual because most of the cryptids we've talked about don't follow us on Twitter. No. I think it's great that they

have embraced social media. The digital age, yes. Yeah. When you do a tweet about Nessie, you don't get the Loch Ness monster coming in your mentions going, you what? Well, if you subtweet Nessie, maybe that's the problem. Yeah, I think we've, but we've mentioned the family Ness enough for word to have got back. If Nessie was on Twitter, I think she would have found out about it by now. Yes. Probably more Insta with Nessie. Nice pictures.

Here's me in black and white, very far away. Here's me with some small waves. Here's me looking quite a lot like a log. So I was looking for English werewolves, British werewolves. Yes. And there aren't that many. So I was looking for English werewolves, British werewolves. Yes. And there aren't that many. No.

And I found an explanation at least for that. Oh, yes. Sabine Baring-Gould, still no idea how to pronounce his name. A friend of the podcast, Sabine Baring-Gould's book, The Book of Werewolves from 1865. The Big Book of Werewolves. Oh, right, 1865. The Bumper Book of Werewolves. He writes that English folklore, and I should be clear clear he and several other people we're going to meet keep saying england when

they mean britain ah and i feel like it's it's incumbent upon me to to draw attention to that because there's some anti-scottish bias here and we did an episode about shetland and listening back to the accents we did i feel a lot of guilt towards scotland so i feel like someone needs to speak for scotland on this podcast but he says english folklore is singularly barren of werewolf stories the reason being that wolves had been extirpated under the anglo-saxon kings and therefore ceased to be objects of dread to the people the traditional belief in werewolfism must however have remained long in the popular mind he basically goes on to say that when people committed crimes that would in france or germany have been considered lycanthropy i.e werewolf crimes in britain they were recognized as what

they are which is just cannibalism oh and i have to say i really don't like cannibalism i imagine as a vegan especially it's really unvegan to eat people. Is it though? Yes it is. But surely they're the only creature that you could ethically get the meat of because they can reason. Are you thinking of that German guy? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also, that doesn't look like that would be the tastiest bit. You've got to have a lot of

information about what you're referring to there for that to make sense. Yes, I would have gone for a more traditional cut of meat. I'll tell you what, we're going to meet some Scottish highwaymen who agree with you about that oh yeah so i hate cannibals oh brave stance brave stance from alistair there oh good good luck getting that represented on the bbc as a point of view yep um once again i'm being cancelled for my opinions i will not be silenced not a fan of cannibalism okay then, then. I do quite like wolves. My understanding, James, is that you are a purveyor of wolf facts. Yes.

So I'd like to now hand over to you the wolf correspondent, the lawman's wolf correspondent, James Shakespeare. I feel like I need an 80s radio one, top ten countdown type bed. Bed-a-da-da-da, bed-a-da-da-da, bed-a-da-da-da. Wolf facts. So, yeah, you're right. We did used to have wolves in this country, but they died out around the 14th century.

Died out seems generous to us. Did they just die? Or were they hunted to extinction? Loads of landed gentry claimed to have been the person to kill the last wolf in Britain. Oh, yeah. But, like, there's a lot of people lie, don't they? People lie, really.

And in looking up wolves, I came across one of my favourite books. Have you heard of this book, Top Cell's Histories of Beasts? No, I haven't. I think the original edition was Top Cell's History of Four-Footed Creatures and Serpents. So, like, four-legged there, not, like, four-foot tall creatures and serpents. So like four-legged there, not like four-foot tall. No, yes. What he was, he was a naturalist in the late 1500s, early 1600s. The pictures are really good.

You definitely recognise the pictures and the style of the pictures. But he wasn't really very good naturalist. He just sort of repeat, he just collected a load of stories together. together wow imagine just grabbing a load of stories together and not really doing any proper research and then just passing them off as your own i know the audacity but we're still talking about him 400 years later but yeah that's probably more longevity than the lawmen podcast will have maybe yes maybe it's been reprinted in lots of forms mostly sort of reduced forms it has like loads of real animals but then it also has things like the cockatrice oh yeah the unicorn classic the kraken i think is in there oh yeah nice dragon something called uh camellipardle i'm gonna have

a little look at the picture um and oh it's a giraffe it's basically a giraffe problem solved mystery done case closed he repeated a lot of the sort of myths that were knocking around as though they were fat he didn't really fact check he just repeated so a few of the few of the claims that ended up in there is that true toads have a toadstone in their heads that protects people from the poison oh right weasels give birth through their ears and apes are terrified of snails presumably because they look like moving stones that is that would be creepy yeah but he wrote about the wolf he repeated the claim that wolves would lick their paws so that they could creep across leaves a lot quieter. If a wolf, like, trod on a twig and it snapped and alerted its prey,

it would bite its foot out of anger to teach the foot a lesson. They only go after live humans if they tasted dead humans. You said about lycanthropy. Now, there isn't, as we know, much talk of that in this country. But according to Topsell, who, can we just remind ourselves, told everyone that weasels give birth through their ears, there's a certain territory in Ireland where the inhabitants... Oh, he says foolishly reported to be turned into wolves when they're past 50 years old.

Like a werewolf version of Logan's Run. Kind of. The inhabitants are vexed with the disease called lycanthropy which is kind of melancholy tends to happen to people in february also by the way january is a big month for werewolves and that is just around the corner so do be careful the symptoms of this disease seem to sort of sound a little bit like rabies or something they can't spit and they get lots of ulcers and they are a bit grumpy. You know, rabies.

That sounds like me in my 30s. Have I become an elderly Irishman? Maybe. All wolves are enemies to sheep, by the way. Yeah, that's not controversial, but wolves and sheep don't get along. At the sight of the sheep,

the wolf makes an extraordinary noise with his foot, whereby he calls the foolish sheep unto him. Standing, amazed at the noise, a sheep falls into his mouth and is devoured. that's not what happens he hypnotizes him no no no that sounds like that sounds like a bad shepherd's extremely unlikely tale but the sheep fell into its mouth because it did the thing with its foot and then it fell in did it it fell in

yeah and it fell into its mouth because it did... The sheep fell into the wolf's mouth. Yes. That's your story. Yep. And the last wolf fact is their brains increase and decrease with the moon. Their brains? Yep. Size of their brain increases with the moon, Alistair.

Weren't you listening? No, I'm sorry. Now you've explained it. Makes perfect sense. So it's like in the full moon, they're playing chess. When there's no moon, they're just not even managing a Sudoku. Well, it's interesting you talk about wolves getting the taste for human flesh. Because I found three cases of Scottish cannibalism.

Oh, yeah. The first is brought up by Sabine Beringhuld while talking about English cannibalism, because he's not bothered about the distinction between England and Scotland. He's never been to the Edinburgh Festival. No. Yeah, you don't want to say that on a weekend when the locals come out. Had an English breakfast, Scottish breakfast. There's a place just opposite the Pleasance where they do a vegan Scottish breakfast.

So it's got like vegan haggis and vegan black pudding. Ooh. It's amazing. I suppose if you were doing vegan, you could have a real lawn sausage, but L-A-W-N. That would work as a pun. So in Robert Lindsay's History of Scotland What, the guy from My Family? From My Family, yeah. Citizen Smith?

Yep, in the 15th century. Citizen Smith wrote the History of Scotland. He listed the auguries of King James II of Scotland's death which occurred in 1460 and there's a variety of bad omens. But one of them is about this time there was en brigand tayan with his hail family who haunted a place in angus now

apparently this place was called fiend's den oh dear which has become den fiend or den find and there is a den find farm which you can find in that region today i'm very very skeptical of the etymology of that but that's what they claim. This mischievous man had an excreble fashion to take all young men and children he could steal away quietly and eat them. And the younger they were, esteemed them the mare tender and delicious.

For the wilk cause and damnable abuse, he with his wife and bairns were all burnt, except a young wench of a year old who was saved and brought to Dundee, which I assume means Dundee, where she was brought up and fostered. So she got out. She escaped.

What do you think happened to that young girl? Oh. That young girl grew up to be... A werewolf? Also a cannibal. Correct. Yes. Oh.

When she came to a woman's years, she was condemned and burned quick, which I think means alive, not fast. Oh. She was burnt quick for the same crime. Right. As she was being brought to execution, people were like, boo, not fast. Oh. She was burnt quick for the same crime. Right. As she was being brought to execution, people were like, boo, cannibalism's bad. You know, edgy stuff, like I say. Oh, brave of them.

And she turned to the crowd and she said, wherefore chide ye with me, as if I had committed an unworthy act? Give me credence and trow me. If ye had experience of eating men and women's flesh, you would think it so delicious that ye would never forbear it again. Oh, trouble is that they taste too good. They taste too good. And without any sign of repentance, this unhappy traitor died in the sight of the people. Oh.

Yeah. There's a book called Good Cheer, The Romance of Food and Feasting by Frederick Hackwood, 1851. Okay, this sounds pretty positive and upbeat, yeah? It does sound incredibly upbeat for a book that has an entire chapter on anthropophagy, which is cannibalism. Oh. Yeah, like why have you got a chapter on anthropophagy in a book called Good Cheer, The Romance of Food and Feasting?

Is it like recipes? It does include some recipes, yes. He references, very briefly, the death feast of Melville of Glenbervie, the obnoxious sheriff of the Mearns. Oh. Who was so unpopular with the Scottish barons that after he died, he was sodden and supped in a brew. So they ate him in a broth.

Oh. But Hackwood adds, this story is generally taken by wary historians, as no doubt the feasters took their broth cum grano salis, with a grain of salt. Oh. Bit of a joke there, for people who speak Latin. Very nice, I suppose. I assume that's what that means. I haven't checked.

So that's a disgusting story, but my third tale is the disgustingest of them all. Oh, yeah? From a book on highwaymen and brigands by Charles Johnson, published in 1742, comes the tale of Sawney Bean. Sawney Bean. The actor Sawney Bean from GoldenEye. Yes.

And the Lord of the Rings trilogy, Boromir. Well, it should be Sawney Borney, right? Sawney Borney. One does not simply eat a person. And he didn't. Although, like Sean Bean, he does die at the end. Oh, that's good. Charles Johnson recounts the monstrous and

unparalleled barbarities of Sawney Bean, who supposedly was around the time of James VI of Scotland. Is it a person or is it a place? It's a person. It is a person called Sawney Bean. Sawney is Sandy, short for Alexander. Sandy's short for alexander yeah did

not know that alexander yeah sandy yeah yeah say sandy in a scottish accent sandy sandy sauny sauny sandy by the way on scottish accents do you know that one about if you say space ghetto in a new york accent it sounds like you're saying Spice Girl in a Scottish accent. Space ghetto. It works. It's really neat, isn't it? It is. Space ghetto.

On the subject of things that are offensive to Scottish people, you know the way that Scottish people would offensively be referred to as Jock now? Oh, yeah. It's a stock first name that you use to apply to the entire nation. Right. Sawney used to be like that. So at this time, it's like the scottish cannibal jock mc jock okay so that should raise some questions about whether this happened boaty

mc eats flesh exactly and basically the story is you know the x-files episode where the mum is under the bed on a skateboard oh yeah yeah yeah yeah sort of that's that one. He was a boy. She was his mum. Can I make it any more obvious? Yeah. She lived under the bed. Better not to go into any more detail, really. He was a hedger and ditcher. Don't know what that is.

But he was too lazy. And he had a very lazy wife. So he retired from working a normal job and went to live in a cave. Okay. A very, very deep cave that extended a mile underground. Oh. And he and his wife decided to rob people for their living, so they became high women. And eventually he built up an entire clan of cave-dwelling barbarians

who would rob and steal. I'm going to read a quote from Johnson's history. As soon as they had robbed and murdered any man, woman, or child, they used to carry off the carcass to the den, where, cutting it to quarters, they would pickle the mangled limbs and afterwards eat it, this being their only sustenance. In the night-time they frequently threw legs and arms of the unhappy wretches they'd murdered into the sea,

at a great distance from their bloody habitation. All right, editorialising. A bloody habitation. The limbs were often cast up by the tide in several parts of the country to the astonishment and terror of all beholders and others who heard of it. Yeah, it's pretty grim. 25 years they continued their butcheries.

They had washed their hands in the blood of a thousand at least, men, women and children. And apparently so many people were going missing that many honest travellers and innkeepers ended up being arrested and hanged on suspicion of being responsible for the mysterious disappearances oh they're only caught when the king sent a 400 strong army out to find and arrest them that's a lot yeah that's wow that is a lot but but there's about 40 of them yeah all living in a cave yeah when the soldiers finally made it into the cave, they were, quote, so shocked at what they beheld

that they were almost ready to sink into the earth. Ooh. Legs, arms, thighs, hands, and feet of men, women, and children were hung up in rows like dried beef. A great many limbs lay in a pickle. I'd say it's more than a pickle. It's a serious situation.

Yeah, this is serious. And a great mass of money, both gold and silver, with watches, rings, swords, pist serious. And a great mass of money, both gold and silver, with watches, rings, swords, pistols, and a large quantity of clothes, both linen and woolen, and an infinite number of other things, which they had taken from those whom they had murdered. So the whole family was arrested, the whole awful clan,

Sawney Bean clan. They were taken to the toll booth in Edinburgh, but their crimes were considered so terrible that they were taken directly to Leith, which was punishment enough sorry for that burn on leith well leith's where they burned people wasn't it that's where major weir yes the men were taught a lesson in leith for being so uncivilized i can't believe this but they had their hands legs and faces chopped off i've never heard of that i've never heard of someone having their face chopped off before being thrown on the fire.

The women were lucky. They just got thrown on the fire. What did they do with the arms and legs? Did they hide them in the sea? The coastal towns had suffered enough at that point. Yeah. And the people who'd heard about it and had a hard time. Yeah.

They all died. Good. They all, in general, died without the least signs of repentance, but continued cursing and venting the most dreadful imprecations to the very last gasp of life. Even without a face. Yeah, that's a good point. Half of them didn't have faces by this point. Wow. So that is the tale of Sauny Bean,

probably conjured up in order to make Scottish people sound bad. That can't be true. There's too many people. A thousand people. A thousand people. A thousand people. How do they work? Do they count the arms and divide by two? Because they only...

Why did they only throw some of them in the sea as well? Because they kept some for food. Well, you can get tired of pickle, can't you? Pickled limbs. How would you throw a hand into the sea? Overarm or underarm. Would you do it like a hammer? So spinning around, like...

Yeah, but you'd sort of have to hold the hand to do it, wouldn't you? You'd want to hold that end, because that'd be cleaner. The hand, it's already got a handhold in the form of a hand. So yeah, you'd hold it by the hand. Yeah, I think it would be for arms. You'd throw it like a hammer, so you'd spin around and then... Heads, I think you would shot put. Yeah, and legs javelin.

I was going to say caber toss. Ah. Because it's being Scotland. Yeah, get it by the foot. One, two, three. Yeah, like giving someone the ultimate bunk. The bunk of death. The big bunk. A final bunk.

So it's kind of like a Highland Games of body part. Yep. Hoeing in the sea. And then I guess the body, you just sort of toboggan. Lose it into the sea yeah oh i thought with the leg as well you'd do a pole vault but that's not really getting rid of the leg bit of fun though could potentially be quite fun yeah yeah yeah bit of fun if the arms bent at an angle it might boomerang back slap you in the face yeah that's the least you would deserve i think yes

yeah that's natural justice if you're gonna throw an arm in the sea be prepared for one in ten of them to boomerang back and slap you in the face. Be ready. Duck. A face. If they'd done the faces

those would be the you'd just frisbee them. Just frisbee them, yeah. Maybe even see if you can skim them. A pet dog would love that. It's all in the wrist. Yeah.

You've got to flick them. Flick it. So those are my tales of probably false Scottish cannibals. Yeah. And I invite you into my subterranean scoring cave.

Oh, your bloody homestead. Come in, come in. I'm coming in. I've got a cross with me, though, and I've got an angry mob on speed dial. All right, well, take a seat on that large pile of clothes made of both linen and wool. I'm just going to put my feet up on this footstool.

Oh, gosh. My first category for you is naming naming i want to be clear i'm including the names that you brought in like whatever his name is tintin abulation top cell top cell edward top cell edward top cell what a name yeah and that that other name for the giraffe camellia pardles camellia pardles top cell committ Commiddley Piddly's. Commiddley Piddly. Friend of the podcast, Sabine Baring-Gould. Yes. And Anthropophagy, a word I have to keep remembering how to say before saying it.

Anthropophagy. Anthropophagy. The Manticore. The Manticore's in this book as well. Oh, cracking name. Which is, I think, that's something with a human face, isn't it? And a lovely moustache in this picture. And a kind of haircut as well.

There's a picture in Charles Johnson's book of Sauny Beam. Uh-huh. And he looks fantastic. He's holding a sword. He's in good shape. Well, he's got the pick of the clothes, hasn't he? Presumably quite a lean diet as well. Not a lot of fibre.

It's okay for names. So I'm going to go with three. Okay. Because otherwise we're just laughing at Scott's names. All right, next category, supernatural. It's okay for names. So I'm going to go with three. Okay. Because otherwise we're just laughing at Scott's names. All right, next category, supernatural. It's none. It's none. There's no actual werewolves.

No. If anything, you're debunking werewolves. Yeah, sorry about that. It's going to be a big fat zero. A zero out of five. I'd give you minus points if I could, because you're making things less supernatural in the world. Even though there's a town in Ireland where everyone becomes a werewolf. Do you want a pity point? Do you want a pity point?

Yeah. And a pickled leg. And assorted pickled items. A bit of thigh. A quite literal bag of bits. Oh no not those bits. Penultimate category bad wolf. Big bad wolf. Yeah because these guys

were bad at being wolves. Yeah. Really they were just cannibals. They were just wolf. Yeah, because these guys were bad at being wolves. Yeah. Really, they were just cannibals. They were just humans. Yeah. And the facts that you delivered, they were bad wolf facts. Hey, they were fun. They were fun.

They were quite inaccurate. I do not believe that a sheep fall into a wolf's mouth. No? Nope. Do you believe that a wolf's mouth and teeth are strong enough to bite stones and brass and iron? I do not believe that, no. No, me neither. Bad wolf fact. Do you believe that wolves are afraid of the dog star no i don't believe that they're afraid of it i got on a limb i don't think wolves are aware of it do you think that if a wolf falls upon a goat or a hog or some other beast of small stature it doesn't kill it

but it leads it by the ear to its gang of wolf mates and then they all eat it absolutely not no i mean it oh james have you heard that if you see a car driving with its headlights off you shouldn't tell them because it's wolves if you flash them then the yeah if you flash them the wolves that come out and eat you well wolves actually according to topsoil wolves if he knew about cars he wouldn't be surprised that wolves didn't use headlamps because apparently their eyes could shine light. Bad wolf facts. It's going to be five out of five. Bad, bad, bad wolf facts.

Oh, I enjoyed the bad wolf facts jingle there. Bad wolf facts. Bad wolf facts. Tweet us if you've got any other bad wolf facts. Not you, old stinker. Not you, old stinker. What's your final category then? My final category is... Because it's all horrible.

Everything has been grim in this episode. They threw people's arms in the sea. Innocent people swimming in the sea. Unwittingly high-fiving disembodied hands. Getting kicked by someone who didn't want to kick them. Horrible. It was disgusting. I think that has to be a five.

I mean, you're making up for the massive zero for the supernatural oh yeah yeah yeah some very very well tailored categories there thank you oh i'll just pop that in a pickle jar what's up floating around there well happy 40th birthday to you thanks each candle is a finger on the horrible cannibal cake i've made thanks for only doing four though well there you have it james the worst mr bean of all have we got anything special coming up to tell people about alistair i don't know I'll just look in this Christmas present-shaped box. Ooh, what's that? A live stream on the 23rd of December. 2020.

2020. Yes, it's going to be on twitch.tv forward slash lawmen pod. Wow, if I were a listener, I would watch it. Yeah, I would blooming watch it. I'm going to deck those halls. I'm going to rest those merry gentlemen. The listeners, like King Wencesenceslas need to look out. Making it sound really scary. Yeah. You know, Christmas.

It turns out Christmas Day is on all sorts of different days. Yeah, 6th of January it used to be. What? That's old Christmas Day. Old Christmas Day? Yeah. They wait till after New Year. When was New Year? Not important.

Mid-Feb. I don't know. They changed the calendars. Who's they? Was it Greg or Ian? I wish there was a market for that sort of joke. Yeah, there isn't. I'm going to put it in our podcast.

I'm going to edit that out. What? I bet there were some absolute wags who were like oh i feel like i feel like i haven't seen you for a few years you know like you know like i haven't seen you since last year people hilarious oh yeah haven't seen you since last millennium that was it that what a year that was for them 18 year olds nowadays will have have no concept of that there's two camps aren't there there's the people who on the turn of year 2000, said, I haven't seen you since last millennium.

And then at the other end, there's the people who kept pointing out that it wasn't the end of the millennium until the end of the year 2000. It was the start of the last year in the millennium. Oh, I was in the third camp, which was in my Y2K bunker. Full to the brim of sunny delight. Why didn't you get anything else it was almost a swimming pool it was all you could get that's too much carotene that's why it's not natural there were two flavors of sunny delight did you know no i didn't florida and california you know

the two flavors orange juice shouldn't need beta carotene added to it Orange juice shouldn't need beta carotene added to it. Like, you shouldn't need to dye orange juice orange. Oh. If it is indeed orange juice. Yes.

Whether it be California or Floridian. I'm just looking this up now. Yep. In terms of the accuracy of the time period of my reference, I've got an article from The Independent. Too much Sunny Delight turns girls' skin yellow.

The date on it, Monday the 27th of December, 1999. Bang on! In the week between Christmas and New Year 1999. What a week it was for Sunny Delight news. You could have argued that might have been a slow news week. No one was reading, everyone was prepping. What was on the front page of The Independent that day? I think it was too much

to like turns girl skin, you know. Boy buys pogs. Boy gets extra pog in packet of pogs.