Loremen Podcast - S3 Ep50: Loremen S3Ep50 - Stuart Goldsmith - Ghosts of Warwick Castle

Episode Date: December 17, 2020

Stuart Goldsmith of the Comedian’s Comedian Podcast joins the Lorebois for some spooky tales from Stu’s old stomping ground of Warwick Castle* where he used to be the jester**. Plus! One tale from Royal Leamington Spa, in which the veteran podcaster delves into a particular… area he has never touched upon before. *An actual castle, not a pub with an overly ambitious name. **An actual jester, not a buffoon with an overly ambitious name. Patreon subscribers can enjoy some supernatural bonus chat with Deputy Stu. Loreboys nether say die! Support the Loremen here (and get stuff): patreon.com/loremenpod ko-fi.com/loremen @loremenpod www.twitch.tv/loremenpod www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod @JamesShakeshaft | @MisterABK

Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm James Shakeshaft. And I'm Alistair Beckett-King. Alistair, we've another guest lawperson today. Yeah? Yeah, we've got Stuart Goldsmith. Comedy podcast royalty, Stu Goldsmith, of the Comedians Comedian Podcast. Yeah, com-com-com.

Com-com-hob. Com-com-pod. We have to add a little disclaimer to this episode. There's a few audio glitches. One member of the team, out of James, me, and comedy podcast legend, Stu Goldsmith, forgot to press record on their end of the session. I'm not going to point any fingers. We could just leave it up to the listener to guess

who's responsible out of you, me, and comedy podcast legend, Stu Goldsmith. It's the ghosts of Warwick Castle, and also Leamington Spa. Alistair, hello. Hello, James. How are you doing? I'm feeling okay.

I've had a coffee. I had a caffeinated coffee. An actual coffee? That is you doing? I'm feeling okay. I've had a coffee. I had a caffeinated coffee. An actual coffee? That is not, this is out of character. Yeah, I'm all edgy, feeling a little edgy, feeling a bit. Oh gosh. You're not feeling in your chest existential panic. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I call it coffee. I don't know if this is going to calm you down, but I've got a guest law person. This is making me more excited. This is going to hype you up. Yeah. Well, I think but I've got a guest law person. This is making me more excited.

This is going to hype you up. Yeah. Well, I think maintain that level of hyped-upness. Okay. For guest deputy law person, Stu Goldsmith. Welcome, Stu. You don't mean comedian, podcaster, and Twitch impresario, Stu Goldsmith?

No, a different Stu Goldsmith. Stu's got accidental booking error. How disappointing. So we've got the podcaster by accident, Alistair. Yeah, I've got the worst. I once did a stand-up gig where the entire front row was a bunch of former school friends who had come to see whether the Stuart Goldsmith that was on the bill in Time Out on the listings

was the same Stuart Goldsmith as they went to school with. And he was not. So he sat there waiting for me, watching the gig. And then I was a different guy so happily i am comedian and podcaster and i have only just discovered that the existential panic feeling that i live with is maybe caffeine wow oh phone ahead stew's friends don't just assume i once did a a gig to my my former careers advisor oh dear that's that was not fun very much i told you so situation there well the reason i got this stewart goldsmith in if you are if you are the correct stewart goldsmith stew you're from leamington spa way

i am from leamington spa i was born in bristol but when i was six years old we moved to leamington spa and i sort of regard that as where I'm from. But yes, I would say from the ages of six to probably 18, formative years, fairly formative years, initially in Covington and then for a year or two down in the old town in Leamington Spa. I always, the spa towns, any town with spa in the name, it suggests they're a little bit up themselves to me. Oh, right up themselves. Is that fair? And the thing is, when you grow up in Leamington, you assume that it's a dump.

And you become a stand-up comedian and go to a hundred other towns and go, Jesus, it's an absolute posh chocolate box of a town. What was it that gave it away? Royal Leamington Spa, yeah. Yeah, I mean, there are, you know, what are the other royals? I believe Bath is Royal Bath Spa, or is it just that it's a spa? They've got spas, though, certainly. We have a statue of Queen Victoria in, there we go, I've said we. Clearly, I regard myself as from Leamington. There is a statue of Queen Victoria,

which was moved an inch on its plinth by a German bomb. That's good, isn't it? That's a rubbish bomb. It's a terrible bomb. It was an incredibly targeted bomb. Inspire fear in the hearts of Levingtonians and sort of generally show gentle disrespect for us. Grudging

disrespect. We've moved your statue one inch. I hope you like asymmetrical statues, Levington Spa. Was that French? That was a Spanish German. Sorry about the accent from that Nazi. Has your accent recently been targeted by a bomb? Because it appears to have moved an inch to the left.

Of course, a Spaniard, it would have moved two and a half centimetres. Oh, loved it, loved it. So is it one of those places, because I've gigged there a couple of times, and I think it's one of the places where, because some places are posh and they know they're posh, and you can say, hey, you're really posh, and they'll go, yes, we are. And some places, if you say, you're really posh, they don't know it. Yes, it depends because there are, it's sort of, from what I remember, there's a big set of central high street called the parade. I mean, that sounds pretty posh, right? But when the parade gets down

to the railway bridge at the bottom of the parade, it's not so posh anymore. But that's where the railway bridge is. So if you arrive in Leamington by station, you get a whole station on the tracks and ride it into Leamington, colliding with Leamington's own station, then you don't see a very good bit of it to begin with. So I don't know. There are certainly bits of it which are posh. And I'm sure there are people there wearing fleeces as we speak, swanking around town. It's sort of shabby chic these days, probably. I remember, this is posh. The Royal Priors was a big shopping centre.

That does sound posh. It does sound posh. And it used to have, when it first opened, which is some 30 years ago, I guess, it had a clock in it. And the clock, because it's very near Warwick, and Warwick is famous for having peacocks at Warwick Castle, it had a clock which it and the clock, because it's very near Warwick and Warwick is famous for having peacocks at Warwick Castle. It had a clock which was peacock themed and every hour on the hour,

a huge peacock's tail would sort of mechanically appear from this clock. I mean, it sounds like I've made this up now. I'm sort of visualising an emu from Rod Hull and Emu, but in cuckoo clock formation with an enormous metal tail. Perhaps someone can email you and tell you if that's real. It sort of sounds mad now. Like it was terrible. It stopped working very soon after its big launch,

but the numbers would kind of rattle. There were little pearls that would rattle along on strings in a way that you had to look at it, really gaze hard upon it to decipher the time. Wow. So delusions, delusions of grandeur, I think. If any podcast has listeners who are experts in animatronic ornithology, it's going to be us.

So I'm sure we're getting emails and tweets. The initial creator of that is currently biting the end off his pencil, listening to his favourite podcast, thinking, for God's sake. Get the peacock o'clock right. So did a peacock come out on the hour like a like a cuckoo and be like neil neil it was there and it would move its head in a jockey animated fashion well poshness wise we're going to the other end of the scale here and we're actually going to near cubbington we're going to the road to cubbington yes from lillington well this is it i i think i grew up in covington but i may have grown up in

lillington they were very near each other i think i probably grew up technically in covington i was on leicester lane if that means anything to anyone and i think we used to get a sort of saturday night chinese takeaway from lillington i don't think any any guest has ever doxed themselves quite as thoroughly well i don't live there guest has ever doxed themselves quite as thoroughly. Well, I don't live there anymore, nor have I for some time. Still, that's important research. Leicester Lane is a big, long road full of flats. You'll never get me.

You shouldn't have used that takeaway as your password for all of your online accounts. That was the mistake. Well, before there was these flats, and no doubt before there was this Chinese takeaway, there were lots of little cottages. This was quite a farmlandy area back in the late 1700s. And around that time, there was a chap called Billy Treen.

Have you heard of Billy Treen? Absolutely not. And I should say that I made it up about the flats to try and obfuscate my location. Anyone listening to this going, there are no flats. Is he trying to pretend he's working class? Absolutely not. Lillington now is no longer old. It's now new.

But when it was then, it was old. That's the nature of time. Did you just mansplain time to us? Yes. So in the past, before now... Sorry, go again, go again. Explain that to me again. Well, you know how now's now?

Yes. There didn't used to be now now used to be a different time see that i think this is more dad splaining you didn't take on a wonderfully dad tone of voice there i see what's happened here we've got we've got two tired dads double dad it's dad multiplied by dad exponential dad yeah absolutely and i feel confused but cared for give it five more minutes we'll be arguing what's the best route to get there. Oh, very much so. Yeah, go on.

Tell me about Billy Treen. He was not posh. He was a road sweeper. And he used to eat begged potato peelings and turnip tops. But from that, he managed to get enough nutrition to live to the ripe old age of 77. Jesus, unheard of in the 1700s, I thought. He lived from 1733 to 1810 from pure carbohydrates and a little bit of mud okay yep oh hang on are we talking about turn it billy no i'm joking

people kind of grew tired of giving him their begged scraps after a while especially since he was so picky yes he's like oh just the tops I don't do bottoms. Can't have bottoms. I'm blossom intolerant. Rumours started going round that, how can he be this poor? Because he's got a job. He's a road sweeper. He's not paying for food. Where's his money going? Where's Billy's hoard?

This is moving in a bit of a Daily Mail, Daily Express direction. Yeah, isn't it just? For me, he begged for me baked potato, and then he went round and got into his golden roll. Yeah, it's like that myth, the myth of the very rich beggar, basically. It is literally that. The sort of the beggar's opera, Peacham character, who organises all of the beggars to pretend to be beggars,

and they're all raking it in. Is that what the beggar's opera is? I've never seen or heard it. And the Three Punny Opera is the same story, yeah. So Mr Peacham organises all the beggars, gives them all their signs, has them fake injuries and pretend to be returning from war so they can rake in all of the money. Nice angle. Good hustle, yeah. Good hustles.

Stu Goldsmith, former street performer here, going, hold on a minute, we didn't even need to learn to juggle. You mentioned it, not me. I just admire hustle in all sorts. On his gravestone, the epitaph is i poorly lived and poorly died poorly buried and no one cried oh wow who wrote that is a burn who wrote that oh that is a real but no people aren't sure who wrote that they think it might have been the vicar oh of course i was thinking he'd written it himself but that would show an alarming amount of prescience wouldn't it yeah people were like hang on you've got a job and you're begging.

Classic Middle England slam, you're quite right. Even beyond the grave, they can't let him rest in peace. If we were to go back and hastily add a couple of strokes to the letters, could we change that to something? I mean, hasn't he suffered enough? Could you chisel on opposite day underneath it as the fifth line? The only respectful thing to do is for the three of us to go to lamington's bar and deface that church graveyard i think that's the only

deface his grave you're right could we take a video of that in uh landscape format of no less no more than 500 meg and i will stream it and provide commentary on it i've been doing a sort of walking thing and just today i was going wouldn't it be good if we could get someone to do like a crime and stream that? And then I thought, oh God, I think I've invented a dystopian. Like you've been framed, but for crime. Is that how you... Yes!

And you're the Harry Hill doing funny commentary over crimes. Presumably you're not being framed. Yeah, you've avoided being framed. That's the pitch. So in 1922, and Mrs Greenway were living in Billy's Cottage. In fact they were moving out of Billy's Cottage. In part because there was a

weird presence there. One of the rooms in particular Mrs Greenway, she told a local newspaper that she never liked the place. What was the name of the local paper in Leamington Spa actually? Oh, the courier. Local to us was the Bambury Cake. Cake? Yeah, the paper was called the name of the local paper in leamington spa actually oh the courier local to us was the bambury cake cake yeah the paper was called the cake that's confusing yeah

there was this one room that they they never liked after a while she just stopped going in there mr greenaway he felt a bit of a presence too but he would go in the room but it was basically just him that would go in that room and then shortly before they were due to move out mr greenway had to do some repair work because of the tenancy agreement or something so went into the room the scary room and he started rummaging around there was like a built into the wall ancient cupboard like an ombre maybe we had it in episode two weeks ago i think it's a word for a built into the wall cupboard yeah well one ofit-tops. Gushed out of it in sort of Stanley Kubrickian style. Yeah, like the lifts in The Shining, but it's mushed potatoes. Yeah, and he found his hand touched upon a mouldering leather bag,

and in that mouldering leather bag were silver coins dating from the late 18th century, a.k.a. classic Billy Treen times. It was Billy's hoard. They'd lived there for long enough to decide they wanted to move out. Yes. And none of them had looked in the cupboard before. In the spooky room. Right at the back.

The room was very scary, you see. So when they first moved in, they just naturally, both of them, avoided going into an entire room in their house. Sounds like Leamington. Yeah, they've got a whole spare room that they could just have as, that's for ghosts. I love the word mouldering. A mouldering leather pouch containing...

Silver coins. And so that is Billy Treen. So he was, he was a scamster. He was raking it in. Well, that's what they think. That's what they think. It was Billy's coins, Billy's hoard. He didn't benefit from any of that gold.

He didn't spend it on himself. No. He just kept it. The gold was discovered. The presence in the room... Silver, Billy's hoard. He didn't benefit from any of that gold. He didn't spend it on himself. No. He just kept it. The gold was discovered. The presence in the room... Silver, sorry, silver. ...was gone. Right, so the presence was sort of haunting people away from his silver

that he couldn't spend. Yeah. It's like ghost logic. Oh, I'd better stop anyone coming near some stuff I can't possibly use. Ghost. And didn't use while I was alive when i had the opportunity yeah maybe that was it maybe he was just kind of jealous he was like well if i didn't get to use it no one's going to touch it keep out of my cupboard deadbeat how many turnip heads you could have got with that

you could have got whole turnips oh we'd have turned heads with his turnip heads this is the thing about sort of avarice what have you people don't save their money in order to spend it do they they save their money in order to sort of have that anal feeling of keeping a thing and going, there we go. No, he kept it in a cupboard, Stu. That wasn't the leather satchel that he put it in. The living leather. The living leather ghost anus.

And Mrs Greenaway, for some reason, won't go near the ghost anus. But Mr Greenaway was... If I'm honest there, James, you've slightly soured the moment. I was really just relishing the fact I don't think I've ever said the word anus in hundreds of hours of podcasting. I've got to say it three or four times rather than taking the shine

off the anus. I'm not sure any of this is making the edit, Lance. How dare you? If this doesn't make the edit, I formally withdraw my consent. So that is, that's the story of one miser. But I've got a couple of other little money-based Warwickshire

stories for you. I would never have come on the show if I'd realised it was a thinly veiled excuse to call the people of Royal Levington Spa a bunch of misers and tourniquets. Well, no, now we're going over to Warwick Castle.

You know Warwick Castle, right? I know it well. It's my castle. I used to be the court jester at Warwick Castle. Many years ago. It was my summer job when I was 16, 17. Your status really plummeted within that sentence where you went from my castle to I.

Real life was a professional jester. But it meant that of a morning. Imagine this for your summer job. I would get to walk in on a morning before the gates were open to the public and I would walk in there not only being one of the costumed characters at a castle. Jingling your way in. I know.

The costume remained in the castle. I didn't take it. You weren't even allowed to take it. They didn't even trust you with the costume remained in the castle. You weren't even allowed to take that in and trust you with the costume. No. I would walk in there of a sunny morning. I've just got one or two such mornings kind of in my heart that I remember walking in and just, I would see no one else and I would walk in early and I'd get there and I'd just breathe in the air and go, this is my castle.

And I'm the only person in it. Occasionally I'd bump into Kevin the Archer. But the point was, as the jester, you know, it's the same, it's very similar experience to being a stand-up or to sort of being the DJ at the party who gets to turn up and you don't need, you're not one of the plebs at the party, you're special, right? In many ways, my whole stand-up career was an attempt to go through doors that said, you know, artists only sort of thing.

So not only did I get that element of it, but also as the jester, I was the only person on site not required to have any actual historical knowledge of the castle because all that mattered was that I could pull together a sort of 35 minute street show. So all of the other people there who were costume characters, John the Red Knight, Kev the Archer, the others. John's horse, called Henry. I don't think he had to have any historical knowledge. It wasn't like a pantomime horse.

It was a real horse. No, no, real. Fantastic charger it was. I don't know anything about horses. Let's call it a charger. It exists in the memory of a teenager. It was 1,000 feet high. And there was a lovely moment where I had to invoice John for a gig

that he'd kind of contracted me out to do a gig somewhere else. He wandered past, I kept meaning I've got this invoice in my pocket and I rolled it up into a scroll shape. And I sort of wandered up to him when he was talking to some, you know, punters who were walking around and paid handsomely for the privilege of an encounter. And I said, news from the King, sire. And I handed him my invoice and he said, thank you, fool, and placed it into his leather bag. And I thought, that's good, that is. I mean, it remains the finest preserved medieval castle in England, unless they found another one in the time since I worked there. And now it is ruinously expensive to visit.

But I have one day to take my children there because I don't imagine it's changed all that much. It hasn't. It hasn't. I used to go there a lot as a child. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. From reasonably nearby.

So it was like the big castle near us. And yeah. Imagine being American listening to this. Oh, well, obviously it was the biggest castle near us. Yeah, that was sort of our local castle. Yeah. When were you gesturing? Oh, something along the lines of 90,

I can't do the math, 95, 6. If you, I mean, there's no way you'd remember this, I'm sure. But I used to have a cork in my mouth as the jester. That was my thing. I thought it'd be funny if I had a cork in my mouth and I could do a couple of tricks with the cork and also I didn't have to speak to anyone if I didn't want to. Okay, there was Noel, the jailer.

It's all coming back. He used to look after the dungeon. You remember the dungeon with the Oubliette? Oh, yeah, the dungeon. That was the bit that you wanted to go in. God, the Oubliette gave me nightmares. My God. And I'd cover Noel's bricks.

He would stand there being the jailer and chatting to the queue because there's only one way in and one way out. And there'd be a huge queue. And then often people would go down and be very disappointed when there was just a tiny dungeon in there. They'd go, but there's a big queue. And we're like, well, it's a dungeon. There's not a second entrance.

If you want to go in it, you've got to wait. But there's graffiti from hundreds of years ago from people who were trapped in there for the rest of their natural lives. It's a weird thing to complain about with an oubliette. It's a bit boxy. The oubliette genuinely terrified me. And you would be crushed in there. You'd be stooping.

I mean, that would be sort of almost the least of your problems because you were definitely going to die of starvation within a few days. But the ambience. The oubliette was very forgettable. Very forgettable, thank you Very pleased with myself Were you there when I think they put in the ghost room

In that tower that was kind of opposite The opposite side Oh, is it Greville's Tower? Greville's Tower, because that's who we're talking We're talking Sir Folk Greville As discussed, I've got no historical knowledge Really of any of it So yeah, you tell me some stuff and make it up,

and I'll be none the wiser. So glad we got Stu on the podcast. Sir Falk Greville was... He was the guy that did up the castle. He apparently spent either £20,000 or £30,000 doing up the castle back in the 1600s. OK, that's a big deal. The early 1600s, we're talking.

I would like to imagine a sort of early 1600s location Okay, that's a big deal. The early 1600s we're talking. I would love to imagine a sort of early 1600s location, location, location. I've really put all of my hopes into this castle and the project is now wildly over budget. Love it or leave it with Warwick Castle. Escape from the oubliette. So how much was that? I want to work

out how much that is today. Well, let's say 25 because I've seen 20 and I've seen 30 in some places. It was 25,000. 25,000. Have you got access to some sort of thing that converts currency from the late 1600s to today? I do, and it's the internet. What site is this?

I'm going back to... Okay, this is going to be rough. So it's seven and a half million pounds. Wow. According to bankofengland.co.uk, that's about seven and a half million pounds. How much is a mouldy leather bag full of silver coins worth? I'll just click to the next tab. Let me hear some keystrokes. Oh, that's a lot more. Several leather bags now.

An anus worth of silver. I'll give you five anuses of silver for it. Throw in a golden record, but it's yours. Cross my arse with silver. Throw in a golden record, but it's yours. Cross my arse with silver. So Sir Falk Greville, on the 30th of September, 1628, Sir Falk Greville, also known as the miserly Sir Falk Greville,

was writing up his will. He got his manservant, Hayward, to come and witness it. And Hayward scanned over the document, as you would, and it looked like he'd been written out of the will. What? And he was Sir Fultre Greville's manservant. He'd been his manservant all of Sir Fultre Greville's life. His loyal retainer. His loyal retainer.

And in a fit of rage, Hayward stabbed him to death. Wow. Literally the worst possible time to stab him to death. Immediately after being written out of the will. You're an idiot, Hayward. I was on his side until now. He's a fool. No offence, Stu. I didn't mean that wasn't a slur against jesters.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not all fools. He was so wracked with guilt, he took himself off into another room and disembowelled himself. Oh. What? Yeah.

Now, Sir Folk Gravel was buried at the church in Warwick and this murder actually happened in London, but his painting remains at Warwick Castle and that is where his ghost is said to emerge from looking reasonably emotionless but a bit sad reasonably emotionless that's a trip advisor review of a ghost if ever I've heard one but a bit sad this is the magic of the English even as ghosts just slightly irritated he saw himself being written out of the will. Yeah, and in a fit of rage. In a fit of pique.

Stabbed the writer of the will, thus ensuring that the will would come true, you know, and then realised his mistake. Realised he wasn't going to get any money, yeah. Yeah, that's probably why he did it. It was more sort of... Absolute idiot. I'm more upset that I didn't know any of this, despite having worked for a few summers at Warwick Castle, I clearly never even bothered reading a thing.

Did you know about Mol? Did you know about the ghost of Mol? No. Her name was Mol Bloxham. Oh, turn it, Mol. Well, Mol was... I'm not really sure exactly what time Mol was from, but she was a servant who worked at the castle as a young girl,

but then she got too old to work there. But because she'd been such a loyal servant literally they bricked her up no they let her they let her have a room in one of the towers and she could like it was i'm not sure exactly what the deal was but she could basically they gave her a bit of milk and butter and she could sell it on but she started upping the price for that and then the lord whoever the lord was at the time the earl said come on moll stop doing that you're gonna have to get out and then the lord whoever the lord was at the time the earl said come on moll stop doing that you're gonna have to get out and then she refused to leave and she'd been developing witch-like powers so they will do that suspicious old ladies yeah so the earl brought in three

priests to get rid of her and they went to the door and they heard a load of roaring and scratching and then a giant hound burst through the door and ran along the parapet and jumped off the wall into the river the river avon and a priest said that halfway down he saw that wolf turn back into mole and she landed in the waters and apparently our ghost can be seen in the waters to this day well if one of three priests saw it that's good enough one in three priests believe this dog turned into a witch. Yeah, I mean, that's clearly just three people bullied an old lady and killed her and came up

with some cockamamie dog anecdotes. Something about a dog, and then one of them went, and then Mol fell in the water and everyone went, what, you threw Mol in the water? He goes, oh no, the dog turned back into a halfway down. Yeah, that's what happened. The dog turned back into a version of her, but now she had three magical knife wounds.

Their mistake was filming it and adding a funny commentary. That was the only reason. Of course, in the days that I worked there, there was no internet, so we had to rely on naught but books and the whispers of the elderly. And hearsay. Surely this is all hearsay.

Yeah. I'm getting this out of a book that's called Ghosts of Warwickshire that's got a clip-hearted cover that's on at least three other books that I own. I think the fact of a cover with clip art adds some incredible kind of folkloric resonance. Like this is outsider history. You're like almost every author of a folklore book then. They certainly seem to think it does add credence. If you were a real wizard, if you were a real magical person, you probably would be good with word art and clip art.

That would be your medium, I think. You'd just be minimising Clippy like that straight away. So those are my tales of walks, as it's known. Those were fantastic stories, James. I think I'm ready to deliver some scores on this bad boy. Good. You're reaching inside your mouldering leather pouch to dish out our scores. I thought we switched the cameras off.

Yeah. Okay, so first up, we want you to score us in the category of naming. Naming. We have Marl Bloxham. Folk Greville. Folk Greville, come on. Ever heard of something called Folk? You've not found a better naming first name than Falk.

I guess it's like the German word for folk. He's a people person. It's not Volk, is it? It's Falk. It's more French. It's more like a Guillaume. It's probably the, if you imagine Guillaume turned into William, then Falk probably turned into Nigel.

I was completely with you right up until you bailed on that. We've got Lillington, Cubbington, Cubbington. It's the most absurd name. I mean, it's like, do you know what I mean? It's like it's the name of a cartoon bear in a French cartoon. Cubbington Smythe. These are adorable names. Billy Treen, miser at large.

It sounds like a Vince character. Billy Treen and his silver anus. Just for the anus, I'll give you four out of five. How about that? I'll accept it. Yeah, all right then. Not bad. I'm sorry, did I accept it too early for you there, Jim?

No, no, no, no, no. I think that's fair enough. You murdered me at this moment, so my will is final. It's four out of five. Okay, supernatural. Supernatural. We've got three ghosts, is it? We've got a transforming witch lady.

Yeah, who then becomes a ghost in a river. Oh. A river-based ghost. I think the dog's seen around, but then her form is seen in the river to this day. I love the idea that the dog was later seen around, as if these three guys that killed her didn't then go, oh, she turned into a dog. That one over there.

Well, that proves it. It's just like a really happy dog just chasing all the peacocks. And of course, Falk got to come back as a ghost, but Hayward didn't. And given that Hayward sort of did more wrong because he was the murderer. That's very inconsistent, yeah. Isn't it? Maybe he did come back as a ghost, but was punished with anonymity. So he's just referred to as a common or garden ghost.

It's a castle, it's full of ghosts. Falk is coming out of a painting, right? That's pretty... Yeah, that's very ghostly. And they've made a whole feature of it at the actual Warwick Castle now. There's like a ghost experience room that you go in, yeah.

A ghost experience. You can go in, look at a painting, see if you see a ghost, go out of the room. Wow, that makes the oubliette kind of similar. The oubliette, you just called it an oubliette, which now it sounds like an instrument,

which I do quite like. A very, very haunting instrument. I'm sorry, I've just double-checked on the more blocksome thing. The blackhound was never seen again. Okay, okay. Even more ghostly. The evil spirit of the woman and her bones are trapped in the weir. Oh, a weir ghost.

Come on, that's got to be worth an extra half a point. I do like a weir. And also I like the way Stu immediately latched upon James's style of argumentation by insisting that the lack of a dog proves that it happened. Yep. Lack of dog proveth dog. I can't tell you how many otherwise blameless elderly women me and my two friends have murdered. You just, after a while, you just get good at folding in whatever evidence is to have. All right. It's a four out of five.

It's not five because I am sceptical. I'm reserving judgment, but it's pretty clear. You're sceptical about weirs? They exist. Yeah. Google one, then. Very, very real. All right, sheeple.

I've been watching some lengthy YouTube videos. Oh, you've done your own research. I've done my own research and it's raised a few questions. The flat river theory. You're not going to find it on the mainstream media are you river stuff nice thanks because streams are a type of waterway should we just end the podcast there i don't think i've actually put put my pen in my mouth as though it were a cigar i'm that happy with that all right uh what's your next category then retconning retconning. Some people who are listening might not be nerds.

The odds are low, but in case they aren't, could you explain what retconning is? It's retroactively conning. Oh, I was really... It's retroactive continuity. So you come up with a thing, there's the continuity you've established, and then later something happens and you go,

oh, sure, it was all leading up to that. See, Fig A, all Doctor Who. It's kind of a comics thing isn't it so when someone basically someone makes an error in the comics and then they sort of go back and pretend that they meant to do it all along yeah or what's his face russell t davis would kind of go he'd sort of leave clues to nothing throughout uh doctor who episodes on the basis he'd probably be able to retroact and soup them up into something uh often something disappointing because they have no internal logical consistency bland wolf for example anyway i i digress and so yeah so within this story the amount of retcons going on i mean it's a popular thing with ghosts isn't it because

you sense a presence in your house probably loads of people have rooms they don't like and carpets they don't particularly enjoy they go in their room very often um and then later if you get to find out that there was a ghost you can go oh well it must have been because of the ghost yeah it's very persuasive and i'm inclined to give you a high score but i just gave you four out of five for supernatural so so what you could do is you could retcon those into five yeah yeah i, I think those need to be burnt. I'm going to retroactively lower that to a two. You're a four out of five for retconning. So how does that sound?

It sounds bad, I don't mind telling you. It doesn't seem to add up. That is how retconning works, though. Well, I think we should get a five for retconning because also poor Mole Bloxham, she was retconned wasn't she? They did her a run Three priests threw her into the river and then retconned that she turned into a dog and jumped in of her own accord

At the moment you're stretching the definition of retconning to include just murder and lying but hey If the lying happens sufficiently after the murder Alright Alright it's 5 out of five. But watch out for future episodes

where I will change that. Right then. Final category. Miserliness. It's been a very stingy episode, I think. Yeah. You've retconned us back to a two

for a start. They wouldn't let old Mole sell butter and milk anymore. Quite miserly. Yes. Billy Treen, of course. And his deliberate emisement of himself. And Molly herself was ratcheting up the price

extortionally. Yes, and Heywood there getting cheated out of what was due to him. There's whoever it is that operates Warwick Castle that charges people loads of money just to be in a room. It was Pearson Group in my time and I don't know if it's changed hands. It's Merlin. With all his powers not the

magician yeah hey wave your wand mate turn some leaves into gold and let the children enjoy the council that's very miserly shame on merlin i feel like it deserves five out of five but alistair is already thinking but i could be miserly about the scores so i just wanted to i just wanted to take the wind out of your sails on that one. I think you should redress the miserliness. Like a kind of a Sam Beckett, you need to put right what once went wrong. All right, well, I'm leaping into my own body to give you five out of five. Yes. Hey, come on.

So retconning that, that's a clean sweep, 20 out of 20. A million points. I'm going to take those points and pack them inside my own personal mouldering leather pouch. Finally, you do jingle as you walk oh god that was great oh very satisfying silver coins aside stuart what would you like to plug comedians comedian.com is where you can find out all about what i'm doing i have a a variety of comedy adjacent things. I do a podcast called The Comedian's Comedian in which I interview comedians.

Comedy adjacent is rather talking yourself down. Yeah, it does. I must stop doing that. I'm sure the listeners are aware, but Stu is sort of king of the British comedy podcast or maybe joint king with Richard Herring of the British comedy podcast. I'm a duke.

I believe I'm a duke. Yeah. A baron. Because he was calling himself for years, he's been in The Guardian, Richard Herring, King of Edinburgh, brackets Guardian. And I'm pretty sure he called himself the King of Edinburgh in a Guardian interview and has been quoting it ever since. So last year, last year that the festival happened, Richard wasn't there.

And I got someone in a publication to call me the new King of Edinburgh. But suddenly it wasn't as good a publication as the Guardian. So my plans amount to naught. Was it the Leamington Spa Courier? It was the Courier, yeah. The new King of Edinburgh. The Bambri Cake. Yes, so basically you can find the Comedians Comedian podcast

wherever you find your podcasts, and although I do other things, you might as well go to comedianscomedian.com and see how many of them you want to find out about. They are all excellent. There's a good one with your very own ABK as well. Yes, that was lovely. Yes, there was an interview with me, which I haven't listened to,

but I keep getting messages from people, which means it either went well or I seemed so needy. Terribly, terribly badly. I came across so badly they thought we better check in. That is genuinely, that's one of the nicest things about doing the show that I do, which isn't in and of itself funny, but it's kind of a, you know, let's not use the term deep dive, but it is one of those inter-process

and, you know, development and what have you and craft and art. And one of the most satisfying things for me is people who've been on it getting in touch with me and going, my God, you wouldn't believe how many comics have been in touch and said they've heard it. So it's inside baseball for comedians.

Mm, yes, that's it. What's inside of baseball? Silver coins. He's a lovely man, isn't he, Stu? Isn't he great? I mean, I wouldn't trust him to necessarily press record when he comes on your podcast, but he's great. Imagine all the ComComPod episodes that he could have released. He got an interview with

actual Charlie Chaplin. He doesn't say anything anyway. Not big on the podcast medium. Anyway, you've been listening to Lawmen with me, Alistair Beckett-King. And me, James Shakeshaft. What have we got coming next? Ho, ho, ho, it's a Christmas livestream. Join us on the 23rd of December 2020.

2020. At twitch.tv forward slash Raw Men Pod. Let's have a little pre-Christmas fun. Why not? Because, blooming heck, we deserve it. Let's try and enjoy ourselves for one measly minute before

Christmas. Oh, that sounded bad. I think you'd better go and see what that is. What's happened? What's happened?