Loremen Podcast - S3 Ep67: Loremen S3 Ep67 - Ben Van der Velde - The Dybbuk

Episode Date: May 13, 2021

Ben Van der Velde (Worst Foot Forward Podcast) treats the Loremen to a tour of Jewish mysticism, the dreaded dybbuk and (of course) the world's original robot bouncer - the golem. Plus, we nearly make it through the whole episode without a circumcision joke. Watch out for guest appearances from 'Bugz in the Nut', a whole new superhero franchise, and (of course) Mr. Blobby. Oh, you thought we'd run out of things to say about Saturday night TV in the 90s? You thought wrong. Gotcha! Content Warning: we touch on historic antisemitism and related conspiracy theories. Support the Loremen here (and get stuff): patreon.com/loremenpod ko-fi.com/loremen @loremenpod www.twitch.tv/loremenpod www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod @JamesShakeshaft | @MisterABK 

Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm Alistair Beckett-King. And I'm James Shateshaft. And in this episode, James, we're joined by Ben van der Velde. Comedian, podcaster, Geordie. Yeah, it's a triple threatcaster, Geordie. Yeah, it's a triple threat. The Geordie being the most threatening of the three. He's like Robocop.

Part comedian, part podcaster. All Geordie. You have five seconds to comply. Still a trouble. And Ben Vandervelde, aka Comedy's Robocop, is bringing us the story of The Golem of Prague.

What's his prime directive? Get a soddy kick. Alistair. James. Psst. Pissed. Pissed. Pissed.

I've called this Zoom meeting together. Yes. We've got another guest law person this week. I can see it. I can see it. I was going to say a tiny little face, but I've seen the face in real life and it is normal sized. It's a standard sized face.

On a tiny little man. It's a standard-ish sized man. I realise what's happened now is out of professionalism, the guest is not speaking and we can really say what we like about him. Yeah, we could keep going. He is keeping quiet. He's the guest is not speaking. And we can really say what we like about him. Yeah, we could keep going. He is keeping quiet. He's got no right to reply. I am sticking to etiquette upon this explanatory sentence.

It's the voice and tiny face of Ben van der Velde. Hello, Ben. Hello, Alistair. Hello, James. Hiya, Ben. The way you were both describing my tiny personage and tiny face, I felt like you were cupping my cheeks Like I was some sort of podcast based gnome

But we were only using one hand because the face was just so small I see you as a sort of delightful little boog in a nut You know when you open the nut and the little boog just does a little wriggle Does a little dance What? I'll happily take that but I have no idea of the nut that you're referencing. Am I the only person who knows what a bug in a nut is? Is this a vegan Kinder Egg?

This sounds like un-vegan if you're employing bugs into your service. Listeners, please get on the Twitter and confirm that I'm not the only person who knows what a bug in a nut is. It's like a Victorian child's toy. It looks like a walnut. Hinged. You open it up and It's like a Victorian child's toy. It looks like a walnut, hinged. You open it up and there's a wriggling insect in there. Oh, I think I know what you mean. A bug in a nut. It's one of those rubbish toys.

That you can't do anything with except look at the wriggly bug. What's the one that's the donkey that, like, you press the bottom of it and it falls down? The donkey with the collapsing legs. Oh, yeah. Oh, we all know the floppy donkey. Oh, yeah. But a bug in a nut? Get out of there, you weird freak. Well, the Oh yeah, oh we all know the floppy donkey, oh yeah. But a bug in a nut? Get out of there you weird freak. Well the bug in the nut is, you know the woodpecker

that you put at the top of the pole and goes rat-tat-tat-tat-tat-tat-tat. I imagine they subsist on bugs in a nut. Now how do you pluralise it? Is it bugs in a nut? Bug in nuts? I would say bug in a nuts. Bug in a nuts? Bug in a nuts. Doesn't sound right. That sounds like an STI.

The way you pronounced it, I really heard a hard Z at the end of that. It's sort of like, like bugs in a nuts is like boys in the hood. He's trying to rip it out of the Victorian age and rebadge it for the modern. Yeah, like I'm always trying to bring back pogs. Well, you're listening to Lawmen, the leading vaguely remembered toy podcast on the internet. Or nut unboxing, which again, I think that sounds worse than... That sounds like a YouTube channel that's getting shut down.

So I've just stopped hitting a metal hoop with a stick to hear about some folklore from Ben. Ben, you, like me, we're both from the northeast of England, and neither of us properly sound like it. Do you know what you're talking about, like him? Are you from the northeast of England, Ben? We are, you fella. Did you not know that Ben was from Newcastle?

No, I did not know that. No, I'm from Newcastle. I'm from Gosforth, which is like the poshest bit. Yeah. And obviously, Al is from Durham, the land of the Prince Best bit. Yeah. And obviously Al is from Durham, the land of the Prince Bishops to give it its full title. Yes, yes I am one of the Prince Bishops. The County

Palatinate. Yeah. The Emperor Palpatine of Durham. Oh, you bet it's Palatinate. What is a Palatinate? I've asked him before. That's not the issue, it's not important. It does not. Oh, okay. But you have, how can I put it? Your posh, lilting, Geordie accent feels more justified coming from somewhere with an intimidating cathedral.

Whereas my lilt slash hint feels more like gentrified class warfare. But you do pronounce it Newcastle. Yeah, Newcastle. Not Newcastle, as I say. Don't say it, James it newcastle yeah not castle not newcastle as i say yeah don't say it james newcastle horrible my ears are bleeding yeah my uh my two-year-old uh obviously he's grown up in a house with a light geordie and a heavily scottish parents uh but in london and so sorry i really i like the phrase heavily Scottish she's

she is my wife is openly Scottish but he pronounces I've had to really make sure he calls it a bathroom

not a bathroom and the way he pronounces the way he pronounces Newcastle firstly he has a lot of issues with the fact that his grandparents

live in Newcastle he always talks about grandpa and Grandma living in their castle. No. A little bit less posh than that. Not quite that posh. But if there's ever, if there's a little hint that he's going to pronounce it the way James

incorrectly does, then I have to fetch the birch so that he can be allowed inside city limits. The birch, by the way, is the name of our au pair. That's a very Roald Dahlian, Trunchbull-like, authoritative woman. Yes, very stern. The Birch. We have a similar sort of north-south divide here,

because my wife is from near Manchester, and I'm from the south. And, yeah, basically it depends who's been giving out the baths recently for how they pronounce it at any one time really and also who who they want to be buttering up but it's mostly bath to be honest is that a boast is that you're saying your baths are the best baths yeah my baths are the best baths oh god you've just broken me linguistically i feel like i'm a frenchman and you've used the masculine tense for a feminine noun now the other thing no i was about to say you're about to say the other thing about you is that you're a jew that's what we were going to say But I'm glad you brought it up. I think it was what he was going to say. Because it's relevant.

Listen, I appreciate that it is a difficult piece of ethnography to drape lightly over someone's shoulders without immediately going, you, you're one of them, explain yourself. I've got an idea. I've got a way. Ben, you seem to know a lot about Judaism. What is that?

Know thine enemy, James. That is true. There are two groups of people who are really interested in who's a Jew, and one of those two groups is very worrying. And yet both of them are dead set on world domination. I think we have to establish that Ben is Jewish in order to get away with some of the things you've just said. Yes, it's very important.

It's much easier to sort of wink at the crowd and point at my obviously curly hair and face that has definitely emerged from an 18th century shtetl when I am saying some of the awful things that I often say. Yes, listeners, I am a chosen person. Chosen by ourselves, not God, because he doesn't exist, but still definitely Jewish,

as I have had an interesting debate with various bad faith strangers on the internet over recent months. Oh, do some people not think you're Jewish? Oh, because I don't sign up to the religion. I'm not Jewish. Yeah, there's the whole theology versus ethnicity thing.

But basically, yeah, like, listen, I haven't spelt 37 years cultivating this level of neuroses and anxiety not to discount my Judaism. My palate may not be kosher, but my anxieties definitely are. Well, the reason I so smoothly brought that up is i think you have some jewish folk tales for us today yes i've come i've come to talk to you about two pieces of jewish folklore and i am i'm not a good jew i don't believe in god and if you want to believe in god that's fine and if you don't want to believe in god that's correct i i think one of the best ways to sum it up is one of my friends went to me, oh Ben, you're one of those self-hating Jews, aren't you? And I went, no.

It's the other ones I don't like. I definitely am one. I was about to say I have the scars to prove it, but there weren't scars because the Moel was a very deft man. But I, footnote for listeners, Moel, man with a scalpel an obsession with eight day old boys foreskins but the stuff i'm going to talk about today some of it's in the old testament

is it some of it is yeah and some of it is from cabala which is more modern yeah that's that's like what madonna's into and stuff right oh my sweet summer child. Can we pause there while I open this can of worms? Yeah. Ben, is that all right? I'd say Madonna's Kabbalah is to Rabbinic Kabbalah what Russell Brand's mindfulness is to the teachings of the Dalai Lama. Sexier. Yeah.

Somewhat more problematic. Yeah. sexier yeah somewhat more problematic yeah let me tell you about the thing that has its roots in the old testament and then becomes in the early modern world a genuine sort of jewish beastie and it's something called a dibbuk have either of you lads heard of a dibbuk before i have not heard of a dibbuk i've a little heard of a dibbuk before? I have not heard of a dybbuk. I've a little heard of a dybbuk. You mentioned the dybbuk, and I did a little research, and it's, ooh, it's chilling. It's quite a scary thing. It is quite a scary thing.

I think. It is essentially the Jewish version of possession. Oh. A dybbuk is a disembodied human spirit that, because of former unresolved sins wanders through the world looking to find a haven of a living person to to latch on to the best example i can give it's a bit like um in my mind the image i have of it is you know that famous painting from i think the 18th century all about night terrors and there's like a comely maiden lying on a bed with a gremlin figure sat on her chest yes you know the picture i'm talking about very

famous yes yes yeah yeah that's what it is and the most famous sort of use of the dibbuk in in modern culture and yiddish theaters by a chap called uh shloimey rappaport or shloimey ansky was his pen name and he wrote a play called The Dibbock or Between Two Worlds and in it it's the main thrust of the plot is a woman who on the day of her wedding becomes possessed by a dibbock and it

turns out that the dibbock is the spirit of a young man who loved her and then died upon learning of her betrothal to another man and the whole play is about right yeah it's that's proper jerry springer stuff isn't it and the whole story is about whether she should have the exorcism how the exorcism works and who she finds peace with and in the end she finds peace after the dibbuk dies and then she dies and her soul and her betrothed soul that was the dibbuk

rise to heaven together. Oh. Yeah, there's elements of Romeo and Juliet in there, I'd guess, as well. But the stuff that I found fascinating, I spoke to a friend of a friend who's a rabbi, and he had some fascinating things to say about Dibbuk. In the root of the word Dibbuk is the Hebrew word davek, and davek means to cling to. It's the bad spirit clinging on to you. But you can see how that's developed into modern Evrit, because the word davek means glue. So they've adapted davek to davek, which means glue. The way that it was first used is not to

do with an evil monster or a spirit or anything. Inesis ledavac is first referred to in terms of marriage in the way that you cling to your spouse and that rather than being possessed by an evil spirit you you possess each other it's now listen it's biblical times lads so probably a little bit patriarchal i think we can both agree that is what what they say about the Judeo-Christian tradition, isn't it? A little bit patriarchal. Just a little bit. A little smidge. Yeah, just a little bit.

A smidge there in the old Christianity, in the old Bible. Couple of daddy issues. I mean, I'd love that as a subheading to the Old Testament. The Old Testament, colon, couple of daddy issues. But it's also about how you possess each other as lovers and the way that love, the spirit of love possesses you. Because according to the rabbi I spoke to, you can be possessed by good spirits and bad spirits.

I can't think of, like in the Christian world, an example of like good spirits. The idea of there being good spirits out there seems very sort of pagan to me. You get angels though. Oh yeah. Angels don't possess people though, do they? No.

No, they don't. They do the Lord's work or they order people around or... Or leave a feather if you're my aunt. Is that a thing when you see a feather, an angel dropped it? Yeah, something like that. Has your aunt heard of birds she thinks they're angels all right she leaves food out for the angels though which is very kind

but the angels do keep on her car shut up you angels i'm gonna go to the park and feed the angels are you suggesting that the angel gibriel uh rather than telling muhammad that he was going to be a prophet, was just a real loudmouth duck? It was a naughty goose. Yeah. I tell you what, I'd be much more interested in the Bible if that were the case, if it was just full of geese and ducks. Instead of a burning bush, it was a roast duck. Yeah, well, that's the thing thing you've just hit on it there

james is like if it was dictated by birds then hoisin pancakes would be verboten which i'm not sure i could live with whereas and i think we all know that if that were the case as well god would definitely be a swan easter would make more sense yes it would James, you've just cracked Easter. God's a bird. God's a naughty goose. God in Big Bird shock. Not Big Bird, but never mind. Big Bird is unavailable for comment. Just photographed a blurry

shot of Big Bird getting into a taxi. I'm going to pull this back on track in some way. I thought it was going to be really creepy, but now it sounds quite romantic, the way you've described it jewish philosophy likes its um its dictamies it likes to look at sort of the dark side of the light side of things the way that i had it described to me is that rather than being about good and evil or indeed heaven and hell which is a very christian idea we don't believe in heaven and hell we believe in either a finding peace and ease and contentment and rather than hell it is this idea of

unbeing or unsatisfaction something else that i will talk about more in a minute that will make sense in a very contemporary way but because of that just as you can have bad spirits you can have good spirits just as you can have bad spirits you can have good spirits just as you can have there's something in in hebrew and i will get this wrong to any jewish listeners i think it's called um i wish i could remember i think it's kanina hara which is evil inclination which is the little voice in the back of your head going push the child onto the railway tracks do it see what happens but uh equally you have um and i can't remember the hebrew for it but it's the good

inclination it's that even tinier voice inside you going help the little old lady across the railway tracks but onto the other side neither of those are good there's an overpass bridge area which is there for a reason stop get off the tracks both of these voices are advocating trespassing at the moment and they're going to be levied with a £1,000 fine. Do Jews have to forgive those who trespass against them? Or is that just Christians? God really believed that a man's home was his castle. Yeah, as a kid, I was really expecting trespassing

to be a bigger part of my life than it is based on the Lord's Prayer. This notion of there being spirits that were cleaving to people, it all sounds very folklorian folklor-esque but and this is and what i'm about to give you is a classic rabbinic and probably indeed priestly get out but the rabbi i spoke to was very happy to go the way we interpret it now the more you read about dibbux and um spirits evil um inclinations latching onto people. We're talking about depression. We're talking about mental illness. And the way that the language translates is not that big a leap.

And because all of this was being written two and a half, three thousand years before Freud and Jung and psychoanalysis, their argument is this is how people in these times chose to understand mental illness. My reply back to that would be, this book was written by God, a timeless being, so surely he would have been able to just put in just a little bit about how therapy works. I do very much believe that if God really existed and really liked us, then you would find a lot more in the Bible about penicillin. the last two things i want to tell you about the the dibbuk that um is firstly when it when it it moved it transformed in the sort of 16th century from this quite abstract notion of something spiritual to a physical form

like almost like a physical mood goblin that could cleave onto you and um this is the time when people would go to the rabbis for help in the same way that you might go to your gp and by this time kabbalistic teaching is uh probably three maybe 400 years old and they would talk to the rabbi who would use kabbalah which is essentially what kabbalah is is practical magic so it's in the same sort of world as paganism frankly it really is some of same sort of world as paganism. Frankly, it really is some of the sort of stuff you have. There's a lot of similarity. But you would go to a rabbi,

he would basically diagnose you with having a dibuk. And as well as perhaps giving you some practical mental health advice for what to do to get rid of this monkey on your back, spiritual monkey on your back, he would also do some practical Kabbalistic magic to get rid of this monkey on your back, spiritual monkey on your back, he would also do some practical Kabbalistic magic to get rid of this and help exorcise the demon. Shall I tell you my other story? Yes, please.

Because this is a proper story story. The thing that is most famous from Kabbalah, and I think the most famous thing from Jewish folklore, is the golem, which you may have heard a bit more about, but if you don't, a go a uh a being made out of clay and the way it is made in this story and it's made by a gentleman who was called the Maharal of Prague who was a uh rabbi um in well I say what would have been the Czech Republic but probably would have been somewhere like Bohemia or Moravia in early modern times,

went out to the forest with a couple of mates. He drew the picture or the outline of a man in the soil and the ground of the forest. And he walked around it seven times saying various prayers from Kabbalah. And the man came into being as a clay man. And then it's given life either by a holy word written in hebrew scored on his forehead or placed in either the golem's mouth or in a small chamber at the back

of its head and the thing with the golem is it it can be used for various reasons it can be used for work or it can be used in this case to protect the Jewish community because at this time Jews were suffering greatly from something called the blood libel and the blood libel put simply was a much-held myth from Christians that Jews use the blood of children to make our bread and often what they would do would be slaughter a child throw the child's body over the walls of the Jewish ghetto, and then quickly run around and go, see, there's a dead body there, a dead child. These Jews are using children's blood to make their bread.

The one thing we all know about Jewish people is that when it comes to food production, very careless. Very lackadaisical. So it's like, yeah, just slap it in. Hooves and claws and beaks on the lot and it might be about the maharal of prague the story or it might be about another rabbi called vilna goen from from vilnius which is in uh lithuania i believe the story goes that they tried to frame the community by uh popping a vial of blood inside the Holy of Holies in the synagogue. So in every synagogue, that is the place where the Torah scrolls are kept.

It's behind a curtain. It's essentially the Jewish version of the altar, but we have a curtain there because we like showbiz. What their aim was, was for them to run in when the rabbi was there, just opening the ark and go, see, the Jews are keeping child's blood in the holiest of holies kill them all of course nobody these days would believe a mad conspiracy theory about children's blood q anon yeah couldn't possibly happen now couldn't possibly it but

it is amazing how these notions of things like q anon they are hundreds of years old just because they're spread on a eight chan forum doesn't mean that they're brand new but the story goes that the conspirators were trying to catch him in the act the rabbi got a tip off at the last minute he opened the ark of the covenant he saw this vial of blood that at best would have been animal blood not kosher at worst will have been human blood and in order to save his community he drank the blood because then the conspirators came in and he could go don't know what you're talking about lads there's no blood here and they couldn't frame him and his community if they'd just got a little trickle coming out of

his mouth that looks a lot worse it has really raised the stakes in a lot of ways but but also i feel like we've been doing this podcast for a while now and the phrase at the last minute the rabbi got a tip off is the most exciting sentence i've ever heard and also an opportunity for a circumcision joke that all of us are better than yeah yeah i was really resisting that how did i not see that but anyway so this is this is what jews in these times are up against so the the, the Golem of Prague was constructed not to do work, but to basically act as the security for the Jews of Prague and would patrol around the outside of the ghetto to protect the Jewish community. Like a muddy bouncer.

But yeah, pretty much like a muddy bouncer, muddy bouncer, by the way, absolutely wonderful dubstep MC. I see. I know this is very serious, but I'm visualising Mr Blobby the whole time and it is making it hard in a way,

but more entertaining in another way. It's interesting, sometimes they're very shapeless, barely humanoid figures. In other, they look like blokes. But in my mind, yeah, they are more at the Mr. Blobby end of things. Than the Noel Edmonds end of the spectrum of humanity.

Noel Edmonds is definitely a Dippock rather than a Golem. The Golem definitely has very Sorcerer's Apprentice vibes. Obviously, in the story of Sorcerer's Apprentice, Mickey Mouse steals the Sorcerer's hat, builds all of these brooms to help him, and they get out of control. The story of the golem is always the golem must rest on the Sabbath.

If it doesn't rest, bad s*** is going to go down. And this is what happens. For some reason, the Maharal of Prague forgets to let the golem rest. And the way you let the golem rest is one of two ways. Either you let them have the day off, they do their own golelemy things or you can remove the magic words from him called the chem and it will basically power down and then you put the chem back in powers up again so at some point the the maharal of prague forgot to do this and the golem killed a man and that was not what the golem was there for the golem was basically meant to intimidate the anti-semites not actually kill

any of them after the golem has been found to have killed a man, the Maharal of Prague has to dispose of him. And the thing with the golem is because the rabbi had essentially channelled the power of God to make this clay man animate, very much making early modern rabbis similar to warlocks in Dungeons and Dragons. No power themselves, it's all about channelling the power of a greater being he has to get rid of it now you cannot bury a golem because he's not human but you can't just chuck him away because he's been powered by the word of the lord yeah it'd be like trying to bury us in a big pile of meat awful be horrible so what solution he comes up with is that the golem has to be stored with other unused prayer books and again prayer books you can't just chuck them away it's the word of God.

You have to do a special ceremony where you essentially do a sort of funeral for old and tattered prayer books, and then you store them away somewhere. This golem is put away in a synagogue in Prague, called the Altsnischul. Schul is just a Yiddish word for synagogue. And so the golem of Prague was essentially put to sleep, much like an unwanted Christmas puppy. It was sent off to a farm where there were no... Where they can run about and have a little bit of fun.

Yeah, yeah, there's no Gentiles to hurt at all. It is said that that is where the body of the Golem remains, and there are even a brick ladder built into the side of it to sort of show how access to the attic could be got and there so you would believe the golem remained until world war ii when legend has it that when prague was occupied by the nazis and the nazis were going around destroying various bits of Jewish property. They got to the synagogue and a Nazi asked a member of the Jewish community, what do those steps lead to?

And the Jewish community went, listen, I know you're a Nazi. You don't want to go up there, mate. The Nazis clearly went, shut up, Jewish swine. What's in that attic? He went, you really don't want to go up there. And the Nazi went, you don't get to tell me what to do. L he went you you really don't want to go up there and the nazi went you don't get to tell me what to do lads up you go and a couple of ss officers went up into the attic broke the door down went into the place where the golem is buried and never came out nice also

when you say the word nazi you you never sound more geordie than when you say nazi yeah For some reason. National Socialist Workers Party. Wow. What a story. And I especially like getting a kicking in on some Nazis at the end there. Very nice. Yeah.

Unexpected post-credit Nazi smash. Yeah. I'm now thinking of him being like the Incredible Hulk. So I'm very confused about what the golem looks like Like if Mr. Ploppy had spent the whole time Since the early 2000s working out Like a ripped Mr. Ploppy Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I'm ready to score it

I feel confident in my ability to judge Jewish folklore I don't feel in any way anxious about this First is the naming This is a classic cat. Just as your lawyer, representing you in the judgment, I'd say, don't know if we're going to do very well. Dibbock, though, and Gollum are strong names. Yeah, and Dibbock makes me think of Charlie Dimmock.

I've only been thinking about Charlie Dimmock the whole time. I can't remember who they are. Are they a gardener? Yeah, she's a gardener. She's a woman. Charlie Dimmock was a woman. Charlie Dimmock is a woman. Is it a different Charlie that's the nursing coach? There's more than one Charlie in the world.

Charlie from Casualty was the Dibbuck of Charlie Dimmock. Because if you watch that was it called ground force if you watch that show in the first series alan titchmarsh wasn't there he was just there in spiritual form but as it went on he began to manifest until he actually became the the corporeal alan titchmarsh that we all know there were some fantastic names that i'm not going to attempt like you've given me several

historical Czech rabbi names which are all absolutely cracking and just Golem. Sounds nice, doesn't it? Sounds a bit like Golem from Lord of the Rings, but it's not. No, it's not.

I find it very hard not to hear the name Golem and immediately break into rawhide. Golem, Golem, Golem through the streets and rolling beat those Nazis, Golem, rawhide golem golem golem through the streets and rolling beat those nazis golem based on golem golem golem rawhide i think it is a i think it's a four out of five for names that's very good that is very good next we thought that you should rate it on the supernatural powers in doing that try and ignore the debunking

that Ben has been doing as he's been speaking. The whole of the dimmock thing, he just went, it's basically talking therapy, isn't it? And he's like, yeah, that's not magic. But I would say with the golem, the golem is essentially a Kabbalistic Frankenstein story centuries before Mary Shelley came up with it. Yeah, a proto-Fr frankenstein that's pretty

pretty good pretty like a big old man made of mud you don't see that every day no no i'm trying to think of a time when i have the only thing is like now i'm more scared about chalk outlines of people that that is potential that is a golem manifestation gone wrong. You see someone walk around it six times. Stop! Stop before you walk around it one more time! Stop muttering! Yeah, it's just that the police are trying to build that old golem army, but out of tarmac rather than mud. My concern here, though, is,

do I undermine thousands of years of glorious and beautiful Jewish history by going, ah, it's magic, isn't it? Are you prepared to throw Judaism under the bus in order to claim that it's magic in order to get five points on a podcast? This is magic that in some places connects, particularly with the Dybbuk, connects to an early understanding of human psychology in the way that some of the magic that Alan Moore talks about

as having its foundations in human psychology and so in answer to your question yes al i am prepared to throw judaism under the bus well in that case it is it's another four and the reason it's not five is you still even in your explanation i start to slip a little bit of rationality in there? More like Ben Van Der Bunk. D-Bunk? Van D-Bunk? Doesn't really work, all right? You've pitched a lovely YouTube channel for me there. Oh, I hear the YouTube atheists are an open-minded and likeable bunch of lads.

Lads? Yes, every single one of them. Lads. Lads? Yes, every single one of them. Next up as the third category, thought about how these fit into a larger JCU, or Jewish Cinematic Universe.

I had a marinade on this and a thought on it, and basically the entire Marvel Cinematic Universe is a Jewish Cinematic Universe because it was invented by stanley leibovitz is that stanley's real name yeah that's his real name and you know both both him and um i think it's will eisner is his name they essentially created all of these notions of superheroes as a direct rebuke to the nazi notion of an ubermensch or Superman. Yeah, I think the Superman writers were also Jewish writers and had a similar idea. Superman in himself is kind of a golem-type figure

in that he's this supernaturally powerful creature that originally was protecting the little guy kind of thing, like he was on Earth. And also he's the ultimate immigrant. Yeah. A good immigrant running away, not from genocide, but from his entire planet being destroyed. And also he's the ultimate immigrant. Yeah. A good immigrant running away, not from genocide, but from his entire planet being destroyed. And the reason I know the Golem story is that one of the earliest horror films,

the German film Der Golem from 1915, I think, is the story that you told us of, or rather a variation on that folktale of Golem Runs Amok. It's kind of not particularly well-remembered early film, but it's very influential with Frankenstein and everything else and all the things that come afterwards. And the way you told the story as well, you had the MCU-type post-credit sequence where the Nazis go into the loft.

Yeah, I'd like to hope if it was true MCU, firstly, it'd be Hydra, and secondly, you wouldn't see the nazi officers get destroyed you just see a faint flicker from where you know the golem is buried and then end scene oh nice yeah some more credits oh there's gonna be some good youtube explainer videos about at this well ending of the Golem Explained, he killed the Nazis. Yeah, yes, we all understood. 42 things you didn't notice about the post-credits sequence of the Golem.

It's a five out of five. Yes. No messing. Quite right as well. That's tremendous. I should also say, by the way, if you want to read a genuinely wonderful novel involving a golem, there's a novelist called Helen Wecker who wrote a story called The Golem and the Genie

about a golem from Eastern Europe and a djinn or genie that comes from, I think it might be Syria who meet in late 19th century New York and their burgeoning friendship and it's amazing.

It's so good. Cannot recommend it highly enough. And my fourth and final category, given what we've spoken about, is Blobby, Blobby, Blobby. I mean, come on. It's got to be Blobby, Blobby, Blobby. It's got to be Blobby at a Blobby.

Blobby at a Blobby. Blobby. It's the only possible option. Blobby, Blobby, Blobby. Good. Excellent. Thank you so much. Do we have to now in Blobby-ese

to the end of the podcast or can i go back no no no no no no it's just fraught with difficulty that's why blobby's so angry all the time he just it's he'll be fine he'll be fine and then you see those eyes wobble and he goes on what he's saying is put the gunge in a safer area put it at ground level stop putting it up in the air you're asking for trouble is the cassandra complex or blobby complex he's cursed with foresight but no one can understand what he's saying it's a tragedy of blobby thank you very much for coming on the podcast ben um is there something you would like to plug to our listeners like like your fantastic history slash oddity-based podcast. What an idea.

It sounds good. What an idea indeed. I would be delighted to recommend it. So if you enjoyed the nonsense I was chatting about, then you can hear more from me and my co-host, Barry McStay, on Worst Foot Forward, which is a celebration of heroic failure. Each week, myself and my co-host talk to a guest

about the world's worst something we've talked about the worst pirates and emperors and wines and horror movies and with al we talked about the world's worst saints and with james i can't quite remember what we talked about with you it was the the world's worst. It was something folkloric. Village idiots. That was it. The world's worst village idiot. Yeah, yours was cracking. And just off the top of my head as well, appropriate to this podcast, John Henry Fall, the story beast,

talked to us about the world's worst mythical beast, which I imagine if you are into your lore, you will very much enjoy that episode. And you can find it in all the places that you would normally find podcasts. That's wonderful. Thank you so much, Ben van der Velde. Thanks, Ben. Yep, so check out that podcast.

Sorry, I fell underwater there. Check out that podcast. Check out that podcast. Sorry, I fell underwater there. Check out that podcast. Check out that podcast. And while you're checking out things, you could pop along to patreon.com forward slash lawmenpod and become a patron and support this absolute rubbish that we do. Yes, and you'll get a bonus bit of rubbish from this Ben episode too hot for the main

podcast feed. Oh! Yes, spicy. Mmm. I don't know if you can hear, James. I'm licking my finger and I'm actually touching the outtakes. They keep making the sound of steam arising. Oh, yeah.

It's hotter than a fiery hot monster munch. It's a spicy knick-knack. It's not about crisps, by the way. None of it is about crisps. Or maze-based snacks.