Loremen Podcast - S3 Ep71: Loremen S3 Ep71 - The Curious Case of the Zetetic Astronomers

Episode Date: June 24, 2021

Alasdair takes us to the flat, flat Fenlands and tells tales of some proper old-school oddballs. The sort of people who like to question the mainstream narrative. The sort of people who, if they were around nowadays, would probably wear a mask but not over their nose. You know the sort. BONUS: This episode also includes a cut-out-and-keep haircut fact that will endear you to your workmates, family and friend. Loreboys nether say die! Support the Loremen here (and get stuff): patreon.com/loremenpod ko-fi.com/loremen @loremenpod www.twitch.tv/loremenpod www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod @JamesShakeshaft | @MisterABK

Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm Alistair Beckett-King. And I'm James Shakeshaft. I've got a story for you this week, James, which is about... Science. Science? Our old friend, Mr Science. Science? Our old friend, Mr Science. Science.

The horny old Mr or Mrs Science. Or Mooks. And let's not be ageist about it as well. Ageless, genderless science. Good. It's the curious case of the Zetetic Astronomers. The Zetetic Astronomers. Yes, David Bowie.

It is the curious case of the Aesthetic Astronomers. Hello there, James. Hi, Alistair. How are you doing? I'm doing very well. We are once again separated geographically, but together through the magic of the internet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Total magic. And I would like to take you, figuratively, to the eastern counties of England.

Right, okay. If anyone's seen a map, it's like England's bum. That bit, you know, the bum bit? Yes. The witch's bun, if you imagine Britain being a witch. The witch's bum or the witch's bun? Bun. Bun? The bun of her hair and the back of her head.

Oh, right. Because Scotland and the northeast are the hat. Yeah. Wales is the nose. Oh, yeah. Cornwall's the chin. Is this you or is this everybody knows that Britain looks like a witch? I don't know.

It might just be me. What is Ireland? Just someone has thrown a kidney towards the witch yeah it's a loaf of bread that the witch is firing out of her forehead as a weapon so the fens is a very flat part of england as listeners to john long's episode about lincoln you'll remember as anybody who simply knows that fact yes outside of the podcast will also know. Yep. And the fens are infested with creatures known as lantern men. Lantern men? Yes.

So this episode is going to be mostly about weird science. Oh. But I thought I would start with the lantern men of the fens because they're a spooky monster. They're kind of like Will-o'-the-Wisps. You'd be walking about on the fens trying to get home. It's night time and a lantern man might approach. Oh, that sounds handy. It's night time.

You need a lantern. There is a downside to it, James. They're like taxi drivers. They're a bit racist. They take your breath away. Oh. Yeah. So you could end up drowned. Oh, literally not figuratively. Yes. Kind of like marsh gas can because it's

methane. Kind of like what Will of the Wisps are because it's methane kind of like what will of the wisps are let's just skip over the science part of it and get back on to lantern men so there's a variety of descriptions of things you ought to do if you're faced with a lantern man some people say there's one story of a guy just putting his lantern straight on the ground and just running away and turning around to see the lantern man walloping his lantern all over the place. Oh. And it's like, oh, we thought you liked lanterns. Yeah.

The main rule is if a lantern man approaches, you should just lie face down in the mud and wait till he goes past, which is kind of the opposite of running away. Yes. But my favourite, according to Eastern Counties Magazine writing at the turn of the 20th century, is that they were attracted to whistling. So you could run afoul of them if you like whistling to your dog. You could attract the lantern men. But two travellers could escape them by means of whistling,

assuming they were standing a certain distance apart. With the lantern man in the middle, one of them would whistle and then wait until the lantern man got close enough to that guy. Then the other guy would whistle and then the lantern man would go. It's like a spooky bleep test. The lantern man would do,'s like a spooky bleep test the lantern man would or like supernatural pong yes as they walked home they would just bounce the lantern man yeah back and forth an audio piggy in the middle exactly does everyone know what the bleep test is by the way then yeah that's a thing isn't it you do when you you have to run

between two points if people don't know it's a day at school you'd go in expect a normal pe lesson where they go no today we're going to do the bleep test and you had to run the length of the sports hall between two bleeps right yes and then these bleeps will get closer and closer together in time so you had to run faster and faster i don't think i got to the second bleep all right yeah i was mid table oh well done that's the legs isn't it that's your long legs i'm quite tall but i've got stubby little legs to run faster and faster. I don't think I got to the second bleep. Yeah, I was mid-table. Oh, well done. That's the legs, isn't it? That's your long legs. I'm quite tall, but I've got stubby little legs.

What? Yeah, I'm all torso. Surely you know this about me. Surely I've mentioned this in the podcast before. I've got a long Celtic torso, tiny little leprechaun legs. Is that why they wore kilts? To hide? Yeah, like the skirt of a hovercraft, basically. Scottish people don't touch the ground a lot of the time.

It's just a huge fan there. Just their little legs pinging away so fast. They just use those to guide them so they drift in the right direction. So the fins is a spooky area. And I just want to establish that because I know I'm not getting that many points for Supernatural. And now I have a question for you, James. Why did, and it's not a trick question, so relax. Okay.

Why did they all laugh at Christopher Columbus? Because he called the teacher mum? That's a good answer. I'll try that again. Why did they all laugh at Christopher Columbus? They all laughed at when he said the world was round. Incorrect. It was a trick question, James.

What? That is not why they laughed at Christopher Columbus. Why didn't they? I'm not aware of whether or not they did laugh at him, but that song, James, is propaganda. It's a lie. It's not historically accurate. No, that is not a historically accurate song.

Are any songs historically accurate? Good question. They don't really deal in facts so much. It's very much opinion-based songs. It is a myth that people laughed at Christopher Columbus because he thought the world was round. Propagated by Washington Irving's 1928 biography of Christopher Columbus. And it's not right.

Basically, they knew the earth was round. They just didn't know how big it was. So they didn't know whether you could sail around it before you ran out of food. To be fair, Columbus was wrong. You can't sail around it before you run out of food. But fortunately for him, the Americas were there. Basically, no sensible people ever thought the earth was flat. Obviously, there's various myths about the world being flat. Norse mythology tells us that Yggdrasil was a giant ash tree supporting a flat earth. So were we in like a tree house? Yeah, essentially, sort of halfway up the giant tree, a big sort of flat disc. That's the earth.

Is there anything better than a tree house? I was obsessed with tree houses as a kid. Yeah, I still am. I still am. I still am as well i don't know if i've mentioned on the podcast you know gregor fisher the actor from rabsy nesbit yeah yeah scottish actor aware of his work gregor fisher he's also parahandy if you if you're a fan of parahandy uh and i remember we were watching the actor gregor fisher on television when i was a child and i remember my dad saying to me, that guy really likes tree houses. And I went, what?

And he went, yep, he loves tree houses. In fact, he carries a briefcase around with him at all times with pictures of tree houses in it. And as a child, that seemed plausible to me. And I googled it recently, and I don't believe there's any evidence for that. And I've asked my dad, and he has no recollection of telling me that fact.

So either I dreamed that Gregoror fisher was obsessed that your dad told you or he lied because he knew i liked tree houses why would he do that why would he do that james why would he do that and maybe he's just trying to get you to shut up about tree houses all the time how is that going to get me to shut up, James? To tell me that... Well, because next time you go, save it for Gregor Fisher, mate. Wait until you meet Gregor Fisher. And I still haven't. If I ever do meet him, first thing

I'm going to say is... What's in that briefcase? What's in the briefcase, Gregor? Oh, lovely. Lovely little treehouse there, lovely. I've never had a garden that's had a tree that I could put a treehouse in. No, me neither. Would you build it from scratch or would you just get a shed and modify it? I would build it from scratch, James. You can't get a spiral staircase in a shed.

The thing about a shed is it's made of wood, you can cut holes in it and stuff. You can have a spiral staircase. Would you use a shed then? It's going to just look like a storm has happened. Like an accident. Yeah, it's not going to look deliberate, is it, if there's a shed in a tree? Yeah, that's what I've always kind of thought I'd probably do as a sort of a bit of a shortcut. That's your trouble, James. I was looking for a quick fix. Oh, just put a shed in the tree. Just get a shed in the tree. I tell you what, if Gregor Fisher was listening, he's switched off now. He's like, oh, putting a

shed in a tree, ridiculous. No, he wouldn't. That's not a treehouse. No, he'd go to the B&Q website, print out some pictures, draw trees on and put them in his briefcase. Those aren't even treehouses, Gregor. What are you doing? You've just drawn a tree around a shed. You've crudely photoshopped a shed onto a tree. How is that a hobby?

I think that perfectly sums up what I'm about to talk to you about, James, because it's all about different perspectives. Now, I guess you've probably got a sense of where we're going. I know we don't do conspiracy theories on this podcast, but I'm going to talk to you about Flat Earth. Not modern Flat Earth theory. Not ancient myths.

Right. But I'm going to talk to you about the 19th century revivalists who decided in an era of science that the world was in fact flat. This all begins with a guy called Samuel Robotham. I know what you're going to say. Surely you're talking about Rotherham United's 1932 Centre Forward. No, I'm not. It's a different Samuel Robotham to Rotherham United's 1932 centre forward. I wasn't going to say that.

I was going to say, don't you mean Samuel Robot Ham? And that's the end of the podcast. Samuel Robot Ham. I tell you what, he actually has a pseudonym, which is almost as good as Robot Ham. So Samuel Robot Ham, he was the leader of an owenite commune in the fence uh sorry actually not leader uh we don't like to use the word leader

um because uh the owenites were utopian socialists so uh robot ham was uh a utopian socialist and biblical literalist. Right. There's something for everyone to hate about this guy, whatever your politics. The commune that he lived in eventually fell apart. Imagine that, a utopian socialist dream not completely panning out, as you might have hoped. Fell apart like a shed in a tree.

But Robot Ham's legacy has lived on long beyond the lifespan of that commune. There are five rivers in the United Kingdom called the Ouse, which means river. Robot Ham's legacy has lived on long beyond the lifespan of that commune. There are five rivers in the United Kingdom called the Ouse, which means river. Oh. And one of them is here in Cambridgeshire, the Great Ouse. And off it, there is the Old Bedford River, which is actually a canal. Right. And the Old Bedford River stretches for miles in a completely straight line.

And a section of it is known as the Bedford Level. Are you ready for an aside? Go on. The Bedford Level is also a haircut. Is it? Yeah. In 1795, the Prime Minister, Pitt the Younger, who was a Tory, put a tax on wig powder and people were fuming.

Right. They're like, I'd use loads of that. Like, I'm going through absolutely buckets of it. You could not wear wigs without wig powder. And so it was costing people more money to wear wigs than it used to. What's wig powder for? For powdering wigs. What?

Is it smell? Have you heard of powder rooms, James? Yeah. What do you think that people do in there? Put makeup on or... No, they don't do that. They powder their wigs to make their wigs look powdery. I haven't done much research into this section of it.

Why would you need to powder a wig? To make them all white and... Why don't you just get a white wig? That's a great question. Paint a wig. So the Duke of Bedford was outraged. Now, the Duke of Bedford, confusingly, was a wig. W-H-I-G.

He wasn't... Just because this is an audio medium, I want to be clear. He wasn't a wig. That would be absurd. He wasn't, just because this is an audio medium, I want to be clear, he wasn't a wig. That would be absurd. He wasn't a human hairpiece. Yeah, he wasn't a toupee. A hybrid human hairpiece. He wasn't a toupee who had done well for himself and finally achieved the status of Duke.

How could that have happened in the late 18th century? Society wouldn't have allowed it. And so he stopped wearing a wig and he cut his hair short. And that haircut, or as we might think of that normal hair, was nicknamed the Bedford level after this section of the old Bedford River, the Bedford level, because it's sort of level, because it's sort of flat. Well, myhairdressers.com describes it as the most influential and rebellious haircut in history.

That went on to be basically normal hair for guys, just short back and sides. To an extent, James, pre-lockdown at least, you were wearing the Bedford level. Right. And then in lockdown, it sort of went a little bit super grass. Yes. Before you hit the Britpop phase of lockdown, you were wearing the Bedford level. A Bedford level, please. Yeah, to be clear, it's not the website of my hairdresser.

It should be obvious if you've seen any of the graphics attached to the podcast that I don't have a hairdresser. So, Rowbotham, a.k.a. Robot Ham, loved hanging out by the canal. And he remembered one winter when the canal had frozen over watching skaters miles and miles away. Because you can look for absolutely miles. And he got to thinking to himself, hold on a minute. I thought planet Earth was meant to be round. How come I can see those skaters

all the way over there in the distance, miles and miles away? So he did a little experiment. This is around 1849. He sat in the canal with a telescope about eight inches above the water at a place called Wellney Bridge and a friend in a boat with a flag. Now, I don't know if it was a red flag, but there are a lot of red flags in this story.

Let's assume that it was. That friend sailed all the way to a place called Welch's Dam, which is six miles away. Right. He reasoned that if the so-called Earth is curved, then by the time his friend reached Welch's Dam, not just the boat, but the flag itself should have disappeared curved, then by the time his friend reached Welch's Dam, not just the boat, but the flag itself should have disappeared over the edge of the planet. Right, yeah, because of the curve, yes.

I'm going to show you the diagram, James, that he has drawn to illustrate this, and I think you'll agree that he has slightly exaggerated the curvature of the Earth. The thing you need to remember here is that point A and point B are six miles apart. Ooh, yeah, no. that'd be the earth's like 20 miles round i've calculated it actually according to this diagram the earth would be

30 miles in circumference it's to be fair to him i think he knows that and he's exaggerating to make a point but the diagram i'm showing you shows that the person looking at point a ought not to be able to see the person at point b because they have disappeared off the edge of the planet. Right. Spoiler alert. He's sort of right. If you were to travel that distance, you would expect the curvature of the Earth to obscure not just the boat, but the flag because of the amount that the Earth curves.

Right. Okay. So far, so good. For him. He got in there. He had a look through the telescope. What do you think he saw, James? Well, nothing, right?

No. Because of the curvature of the Earth, it should have obscured the flag. That is maybe what the mainstream media would have told you. MSM? In reality, he looked through the telescope and he saw his friend in the boat and he could see the flag as well. What? Has the image been bent around the Earth?

Yes, it has. Now, I'm glad that you immediately guessed the correct explanation for this. So, second spoiler alert. He was wrong about whether that proves that the Earth is flat. I'm going to do a quick science bit. It might be wrong. Please message us if any of the science in this is wrong. Basically, light refracts when it moves into a denser medium,

like when it goes from air to glass or air to water. Yes. It's the basis of how lenses work. Right. Now, the atmosphere of the Earth is not equally dense. As you well know, if you go up to the top of a mountain, there's not much atmosphere there. If you go into space, there isn't any.

So down here near the bottom of the Earth where we live, it's denser. So the closer you are to the ground, the more likely light rays are to bend. Now, obviously, the atmosphere and weather and temperature affects all of this. But this is why you can see mirages, where the ground appears to float above the horizon and all sorts of things like that. Oh, yeah. The mistake he made was being eight inches away

from the surface of the water. Essentially, the closer you are to the Earth, the flatter it looks. Now, admittedly, that sounds like a lie, doesn't it? Yeah, that sounds like a very doesn't it yeah that sounds like a very convenient excuse it sounds very convenient now it is true but it really doesn't sound persuasive so i have some sympathy with samuel robe i can't not say robot ham now that you've said it just call him robot ham i have some sympathy with robot ham at this point so he published as they all do, a pamphlet and later a book under the pseudonym Parallax.

Okay. I guess you're familiar with the concept of Parallax, James? Not really. Only it's the name of a baddie in a comic I remember reading. The Parallax effect, for anybody who doesn't know, you know when you're travelling by train, the way telegraph poles near to you appear to be moving very, very fast, and then sort of the bushes and the hedges a little bit slower, and then the mountains in the distance even slower, and then the moon doesn't appear to be moving at all. The sense that things are moving at different speeds relative to you is that's the parallax

effect. Is that what that's called? The parallax effect. So animators are very familiar with it because you have to fake it all of the time if you're an animator. But it does sound like a brand of laxative. And if it were, the slogan would be you're sideways it's a variety of different speeds

so he published a book now i've done a few spoilers this guy is the king of spoilers the book is called zatetic astronomy colon earth not a globe don't give away the word zatetic is not just in there because i want to get points for naming you've already won with colon, earth not a globe. Don't give away. The word's the tetic. It's not just in there because I want to get points for naming. You've already won with robot ham, to be honest. Excellent. So tetic means proceeding by inquiry, also known as just asking questions, just having an open mind.

And so the opening of his book is exactly about that. It's about science should be asking questions and not trying to prove something we already know, he says, before going on to try and prove that the Bible is literally correct in all of its claims. But this pamphlet was a hit, as was his book, and he began to give popular lectures and he influenced others. So another writer using the pen name Common Sense, which is a phrase I hate. It really annoys me because I like the philosopher Thomas Paine, who wrote a book called Common Sense. And what he meant by common sense was,

ordinary people aren't stupid. They should be allowed to vote and stuff. And somehow since then, you can replace the phrase common sense with my opinion in any sentence. I hate it. So this guy, Common Sense, he published a thing called Theoretical Astronomy Examined and Exposed in 1864. So what followed over the next few years were a series of scientific experiments that I'm going to explain badly.

Right. The first involved Parallax himself, old robot ham, at Plymouth Hoe. And it's called the Eddiston, the Eddystone. Eddystone? Eddystone sounds like a stand-up comedian from the old school. Yeah. I'm Eddystone. Welcome to the lighthouse.

The Eddystone lighthouse. Right. Which is 14 miles away from the cliffs of P the old school. Yeah. I'm Eddie Stone. Welcome to the lighthouse. The Eddie Stone Lighthouse. Right. Which is 14 miles away from the cliffs of Plymouth Hill. Right. Now, scientists, the so-called mainstream scientists, predicted that from the top of the cliffs, you can see, 14 miles away, you can see the lighthouse. They predicted that from ground level, only the light of the lighthouse would be visible. So, they went down to the beach. They set up their telescope.

They looked through the telescope. And when Parallax himself looked through the telescope, atmospheric conditions were such that half of the lighthouse was visible. Oh. So it's a weird one because technically what they said was wrong. So he announced that their claim was wrong, and the onlookers went away thinking that the planists, as they called themselves, we might say flat earther, camp had won. So that's quite annoying. And arguably is lying, I would say.

Yes. Yes, they said that only the light would be visible. But if any of it isn't visible. Then it's not flat. Then it's not flat, is it? So, wait a minute. It depends what the weather's like for how far you can see. Obviously, I understand about mist. flat is it so wait a minute it depends what the weather's like for how far you can see obviously

i understand about mist i don't have to explain that as well no you don't have to explain none of these experiments are possible on a foggy day that is true but the density of the air changes based on heat so you know like um you'll have seen on hot days you might see what seem to be puddles but are actually reflections of the sky on the road. That's not about how far you can see. It's not about how far you can see, but it's about how much the light bends depending on

the density of the air. Reflects, I should say. So, first experiment. It's 1-0 to the flat earthers. It shouldn't be, but it is. So it's 1870 now, and I'm very happy to introduce a new character, and his name is John Hamden.

What? Not my John Hamden. Not your John Hamden. So it's a familiar name for the podcast. The man who is a den of ham is very much a fan of the man who is a robot of ham. And John Hamden was, quote, bent on defending Genesis to the hilt. He was a big fan of parallax and common sense. And he's just had enough, basically, with the old mainstream media's narrative being shoved down his throat.

And he puts an advert in a magazine called Scientific Opinion, challenging anyone to a wager of £500 if they can prove the earth is round. Easy money, thinks Alfred Russell Wallace. The first character we've met who is not made of ham. I recognised the surname Wallace and I immediately checked whether he was related to Lady Wallace from the London Monster story because I thought that would be too perfect. Frustratingly, he's not. Although I did find out that Lady Wallace's first name was Eglantine.

What? Yeah, how did I miss that? Eglantine. Eglantine Wallace was her name. What was Eglantine. What? Yeah, how did I miss that? Eglantine. Eglantine Wallace was her name. What was her nickname? Eggy. Eggy Wallace, yeah. Eglantine.

Eglantine. It's a flower. Is it? With a disgusting name, yeah. Oh, not like time, not like... What time is it? It's Eglantine. No, T-I-N-E.

I mean, it still doesn't make that name make more sense to me. It's still a disgusting name, I agree. Now, Alfred Russell Wallace is a stone-cold scientist. He's a famous and significant scientist, a heavyweight, if you will. He's the co-developer of the theory of evolution with a certain little scientist who I like to call Charles Darwin. Chuck D, the original Chuck D. Yeah, old Chucky D. Now, why is Alfred Russell Wallace less famous than Charles Darwin? James, we might be just

about to find out. Oh, good. He takes up a challenge. He says, yeah, I don't mind doing something easy and getting 500 quid. And so they set up what is known as the Bedford Level Experiment. Now, Alfred Russell Wallace doesn't know that the Bedford level is the place that old robot ham, Johnny Parallax, did his first experiment because he's a scientist. So he hasn't heard about any of this so far. So as far as he knows, it's just a very straight stretch of river. The perfect place to do an experiment. So he conceives of an experiment which is agreed to by John Hamden and Hamden appoints

some judges. Russell Wallace agrees to allow him to appoint judges as long as they were prominent men in some field and not his friends. And he appoints a judge called Mr. Culture and Mr. William Carpenter. And Russell Wallace sets up an experiment. Now, I'm going to try and describe the experiments to you. The important thing to note here is that he wasn't guaranteed to succeed, even though he was right. And he writes about this because, as we were saying, atmospheric conditions can change. It was possible that his experiments, for one reason or another, wouldn't actually show that the Earth was round. So he was taking a risk. The first thing he did,

of course, was not position his telescope eight inches above the surface of the river. He put his telescope on a bridge quite a good distance above the river. Many, many miles away, there is another bridge, a different height. So he hung a banner on the second bridge with a horizontal black line on it, which represented the height of the other bridge. So we've got two bridges. I was able to say at the same distance apart from each other. That's just how distance works. And there's a marker on the second bridge that shows the height of the first bridge and in the exact middle point he put a stick with some markers on it at the same height are you with me so far yeah yeah yeah so

they could all line up exactly they all line up so he gets on bridge the first and he points the telescope at the marker on the bridge at the other end when they look through the telescope they see the bridge at the far end with the horizontal line exactly in the center of the telescope and significantly above it they see the central marker for the same reason that if you were to draw a straight line between both of your ears the middle of your head would be above it because not to labor the point the surface of the Earth is curved. Does that make sense? Yeah. It does to you.

The judges weren't convinced. What? The judge, William Carpenter, said, okay, yeah, we can see that, but this telescope doesn't have a crosshair, so it doesn't really prove anything, does it? So they set up a second test. He goes away, and he gets a telescope that has a crosshair, and he said, so basically the same thing.

And the important thing is this telescope has a level. So instead of pointing directly at the marker on the other bridge, it is pointing just straight. Yeah, just straight. It's just pointing straight. The judges once again look through the telescope. What do they see?

They should see nothing. Maybe a stick. They can see the other bridge and they can see the marker. But what they see is, reading from top to bottom, they see the crosshair of the telescope pointing at the sky, unsurprisingly.

Beneath that, they see the marker that represents the central point. The stick. And then a similar distance beneath that, they see the marker that is on the other bridge. Yes. Yep. Are you happy with that? Yeah. Are you satisfied that the Earth is round?

Yes. So was Mr. Culture. Nice one, Mr. Culture. Mr. William Carpenter was not convinced. Billy C. Now, look, he said, the crosshair, the marker, and the bridge are all in a straight line, because they're the

same distance apart from each other. So if you draw a straight line between them, that's a line. And you know what is flat? Lines. I'm not quoting directly. There's something I should have told you about William Carpenter that I didn't, and this is a pretty big twist. He wasn't a carpenter. Do you remember Common Sense?

The pseudonymous writer, Common Sense? Yeah. That's him. So William Hamden hired one of the main proponents of flat earth theory to be his judge in the flat earth test. So an umpire was appointed and the guy who had arranged the bet got involved and it was decided that Wallace had won and he was awarded the 500 pounds. Good. And Hamden, what he did was he harassed Wallace for 15 years. Okay, so here's a letter that he wrote to Wallace's wife.

Mrs. Wallace, madam, if your infernal thief of a husband is brought home someday on a hurdle with every bone in his head smashed to a pulp, you will know the reason. Do you tell him from me? He is a lying infernal thief. And as sure as his name is Wallace, he never dies in his bed. You must be a miserable wretch to be obliged to live with a convicted felon. Do not think, or let him think, I have done with him. John Hamden. Yours. Yours, John Hamden.

Best wishes. Kind regards. John Hamden. Yours. Yours, John Hamden. Best wishes. Kind regards, John Hamden. You can actually buy, if you're interested, there is a rare bookstore online selling for $2,600 what they describe as a rare, important and angry letter signed by a flat earther, which is one of John Hamden's poison pen letters. So they went to court several times.

Wallace eventually was compelled to return the 500 pounds because it turns out bets aren't legally enforceable. And if someone wants their money back, you have to give it to them. Really? At that time. Yeah, apparently. However, after all of the libels,

Hamden ended up paying him 600 quid in damages and went to prison twice. Good. He never gave up. This went on for so so long hamden wrote i have thoroughly exposed that degraded black leg alfred russell wallace as i would everyone who publicly identifies himself with such grossly false science which he had the audacity to claim to be true if this man's experiment on the bedford canal was founded

on fact then the whole of the scriptures are false, from the first verse to the last. Oh. Perhaps history's first self-own there, I think. There's a few interesting spin-offs of the Bedford-level experiment. Over in the US of A, America, Ulysses G. Morrow, because all Americans have names like that, repeated the Bedford test, and he concluded that the world was not round, was not flat. It was in fact concave.

What? Hmm. Coincidentally, he believed in the religion of Koreshanity founded by Sirius Reid Teed

which teaches that the world is concave. Anyway. Wait a minute. Open your eyes. It's a bowl. What was that guy's name? Sirius Reid Teed.

I've got one last twist for you. Oh, is it the world's twisted? The hero of this story, the victim, I suppose, the hero of the story is Alfred Russell Wallace, a sceptic, a man of science. That man, Alfred Russell Wallace, is also big, big, big, big fan of ghosts. Oh, good lad.

100% believes in ghosts. He got massively into the spiritualist movement, which is kind of sad, and I think kind of why his reputation, he's damaged his own reputation by publishing a book about mesmerism and mediumship and ghostly occurrences, which he approaches with the same sort of scientific rigour,

but the problem is that he's a scientist, so he doesn't realise that these people are tricking him. A big trial at the time was the Slade trial, in which an expositor of sham mediums took a psychic called Slade to court and tried to expose him as a fraud. When Charles Darwin found out that Russell Wallace was defending the medium, he gave evidence. So you had the two co-authors of the

theory of evolution on different sides of this debate and it it's kind of must have been quite a fun trial because the prosecution hired the magician masculine a very famous magician to do the things that the the psychic did in his act not like a wedding that where you sometimes get a close-up magician to go around. So it's kind of sad. Imagine that, James, an evolutionary theorist who lost everyone's respect by becoming an old crank. Hopefully people will have learned from that and never do it again. That will never happen again.

So that was the curious case of the Zetetic astronomers. I feel a bit bad because we have know, we have a few Christian listeners, and I do feel like they get a bit of a hard time, what with us accusing Jesus of being the ultimate serial killer and so forth. He is as well, though, because he could bring people back to life. You mean every time he chooses not to bring someone back to life, that's murder? I hadn't thought that, but now I can't not think it.

Yeah, he could bring back to life. He could have brought anyone back to life at the drop of a hat. He could have brought Uncle Ben back. I think I'm confusing him with someone else. Sorry, Christian. I was trying to steer away from the Jesus Christ serial killer thing. But you just put another nail in his... That's the last thing I wanted to do.

And I feel really bad making fun of, sort of making fun of John Hamden for being a biblical literalist. Because the point of a story, if this story teaches us anything, A, it's that the world is round. Thank goodness. But B, the second thing the story teaches us, when you look at Alfred Russell Wallace, is that any intelligent person is capable of believing an absurdity.

You know? And you and I are no different. Even you and me, James. Even me? Even you are capable of error. And that is the moral of the story of the Zetetic astronomers. Yeah, that's a good one, actually. Good moral, yeah, that you, James Shakeshaft, are fallible.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure our listeners know that already. What, you mean the guy who doesn't read the ends of words fallible you say the one who makes up people's names shall we move on to the scoring section of the lawmen podcast first category naming right earlier on we took a break you left your zoom call open oh yeah and i I did hear Rachel say, Sirus Reid teed, don't let him not give you five out of five. Yes, she did say that. Which is fair enough. I am going to definitely give you five out of five

because you've got Sirus Reid teed. Ulysses G. Morrow. Robot ham. Yes, you've got the robot ham. You've got mechanised meat. And Eglantine Wallace. Eglantine is all mine. And, of course, the nicknames Parallax and Common Sense.

So many names. And, of course, the really good name for a book, Earth Not a Globe. Yeah, five out of five. I can't argue with them. Yes. On the names. I can argue with them about many other things. Brilliant.

Okay, next category, Supernatural. Yeah, I have to admit I made an effort. I gave you some spooky lantern men and I gave you some spiritualist mediums at the end. I bookended it with spookums. The opening ghosts, though, they're just from Norfolk and Norfolk's flat. Is that the only link?

Well, they're from the area, the area of the penance where the experiments took place. James, I'm not saying, I'm not saying that these things are all supernatural. I'm just asking questions. I'm just being Zetetic. Yes. And you know what?

They must have thought that all the things that happen because the earth is a globe rather than a flat disk they must have thought those were supernatural i think they literally believe it's the work of the devil yeah yeah so and to this day so people think things like satellites and nasa are satanic because it's the only explanation to trick us yeah yeah yeah the greatest trick the devil ever pulled nasa being nasa was nasa it actually stands for nice and satanic attitude oh that's nice and satanic that's just right it's the goldilocks of satanism yeah you can't spell satellite without satan without some of the letters from satan wow that's true yeah yeah so i think this is more

supernatural than you might have thought well you would first glance so i going to give it a three. Yeah. My next category is bad sports, a.k.a. not cricket. Oh. A.k.a. it's a mugs game. Oh. I came up with three titles for this category. That's good. I'm just using all of them. I don't know what they mean.

So bad sports. There's a lot of bad sportsmanship going on here. Oh. Isn't there? But also, lantern man ping pong, really bad sport. Yeah, that's... Very dangerous. Yep, yep, yep. John Hamden was a pong, really bad sport. Very dangerous.

John Hamden was a really, really bad sport. His behaviour was not cricket. It just wasn't cricket. No. And engaging with conspiracy theorists, it's a mugs game. It was a mugs game, getting involved in any of that. They've taken him for a mug, James. They have.

They've played him for an absolute mug. Yeah. They made him look like a lemon. A lemon mug. A mug in the shape of a lemon. A mug in the shape of a lemon. Well, a mug in the shape of a lemon, you wouldn't be able

to put it down. Yeah, you'd have to spin it and you could only put it down for as long as it remained spinning on one of its points. I don't want a gyroscopic lemon mug. That's going to be

very dangerous with a cup of tea in it. Okay, so. Mug's game. Mug's game. A four out of five, I think. Only a four?

Yeah. He was harassed for 15 years by this guy do you think it could have been worse it could have been worse yeah all right like 15 years he was harassed for 15 years but that's like he would have got a letter yeah it was mostly letters in the post yeah it's four it's four i'll take it lovely yeah all. My final category, Curveball. Oh. Mm. It is a curved ball. Yeah.

You see what's going on there? Yes. Yes. The planet Earth is a curved ball. Yeah. And this story has many curved balls in it. Yes. Like, you would think it would be slightly easier to prove these people wrong, but it actually is.

Yeah. It is slightly more tricky to prove them wrong. Yeah. It was quite the curve ball from old Ulysses B. Rockin or whatever his name was. Ulysses G. Morrow, who discovered the world was a bowl. It's actually an inverse. It will have to be a five out of five for a curveball.

Yes. Didn't expect that at the end. That's good. Yeah, Wallace turning out to be a spiritualist. Yeah. And I'm going to end this episode with the story with which Alfred Russell Wallace

ends the very lengthy account of his dealings with John Hamden which I think is arguably the most boring story ever recorded. So get ready. In 1865

the British Museum bought a skeleton from him for which he says they agreed to pay five pounds. Two years later he got the following

printed form, which said, Sir, if you will send your own stamped receipt to this office, you'll be paid the amount due to you by the trustees of the British Museum. £5, zero shillings, zero pence. Hmm, reasonable. He did exactly that. He then received the following written communication.

Mr. Butler begs to transmit the enclosed P.O. order for £4.19.pence to Mr. Wallace. What? And the amount of it, with the cost of the order, sixpence, makes up the sum due by the trustees to Mr. Wallace. P&P? He had to pay his own P&P? He had to pay his own P&P. I bet he had to pay the P&P for the Blooming Skeleton as well.

Blooming Skeleton as well, yeah. And when he sent his own stamped receipt to the office, he didn't pay the P&P for the Bloomin' Skeleton as well. Bloomin' Skeleton as well, yeah. And when he sent his own stamped receipt to the office, he didn't include the cost, he didn't add the cost of the stamps on top of... He says, this amazing little dodge, for I can call it nothing else, completely staggered me. I was at first inclined

to return the P.O. order, or to write asking for the sixpence, and if necessary summon Mr. Butler or the trustees to a county court for the sixpence due and if necessary, summon Mr. Butler or the trustees to a county court for the sixpence due. Yeah. But I was busy. Oh. But I was busy.

So I just waited, and I wrote about it in my autobiography. But I needed a strong ending. You have been listening to Lawmen with me, Alistair Beckett-King. And me, James Shakeshaft. And if you've enjoyed our attempt at historical facts plus... Haircut trivia. Plus haircut trivia, you can support the podcast. How can you do that, James? You can go on the internet to patreon.com forward slash lawmen pod.

Forward slash, okay. And you get some sweet, sweet content. Or just leave us a review on iTunes, a positive one. Yes, please, a positive review. Imagine you're me and you've heard about a ghost that later turned to dust. You're giving it five out of five. That does sound like fun. What, being a flat earther?

The whole thing, like, they got to do these big experiments, put your stick up. Sounds like it would have been a day out. It would have been a day out. I was at the beach yesterday. I'll tell you a little story.. I was at the beach yesterday. I'll tell you a little story. So I was at the beach yesterday. I was at the beach with the missus.

I was walking down to prom. And, you know, men with knotted hankies on their head. Oh, yes. In Brighton. And I looked down towards the ocean and I saw the actor Bill Nighy's head. Oh. The back of it. Basically, I looked and the actor Bill Nighy was facing away from. The back of it. Basically, I looked and the actor Bill Nighy

was facing away from me and I nudged Rachel and I said, look, it's the back of Bill Nighy's head. And she sort of didn't believe me and she went off to do something else.

And then after a while he turned around and it was the actor Bill Nighy. So the front of his face was also Bill Nighy's face. And other people who were sitting around recognised that it was Bill Nighy

and they went over and were having photographs taken with Bill Nighy. Nice. And so, yeah, I was pretty pleased with my ability to spot who is Bill Nighy. From the back of Bill Nighy. From the back of his head, yeah. And so I phoned Rachel and I said, hey, do you remember a minute ago when we saw the back of Bill Nighy's head?

Well, it's Bill Nighy. People are having their picture taken with Bill Nighy. The front of his head is also Bill Nighy. The front of his head is also Bill Nighy. The front of his head is also Bill Nighy. And she said, oh, really? And I said, yeah. She said, you should get your photo taken with him. And I said, I'm not going to go up to Bill Nighy and ask to have my photo taken with him.

And she said, no, no, you should. You love science. She thought he was Bill Nighy, the science guy. Oh, Bill Nighy, the science guy from America. From America. Oh. Who I also think Science Guy. From America? From America. Oh. Who I also think I could spot from the back of his head. I'm seeing a pattern here because there's the actor Brian Cox

and there's the scientist Brian Cox. Wow, is there a scientist counterpart for every actor? Yeah. Oh, I want to meet the scientist Nicolas Cage. Oh, yeah. For the inner Cage. Self-experiment. I experiment on myself.

It's much safer. I couldn't put anyone else to these kind of risks.