Loremen Podcast - S3 Ep75: Loremen S3 Ep75 - Forrest Burgess - The Soap Woman

Episode Date: August 4, 2021

The Soap Woman of Lake Crescent The Loremen visit Twin Peaks country, and in damn fine company. The year is 1940 and Forrest Burgess (off of Astonishing Legends) takes Alasdair and James to the shores of Lake Crescent in Washington State. Plumbing its chilly depths, we uncover a murderer, a hardboiled detective and an underwater corpse-catcher. We also stop off for a malt at Mount Olympus, visit the Hall of American Names and learn why there’s really no such thing as a good bundle. Content Warning: This episode includes details of a real murder case and – implicitly – domestic violence.

Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm James Shakeshaft. And I'm Alistair Beckett-King. And Alistair, we have got the biggest name in the world of weird stuff podcasts. Wow, that is a category I'm familiar with. You know the podcast Astonishing Legends? I do indeed. It's Forrest Burgess from that.

Wow. I bet, because we want to make a good impression on Forrest, it's got a really slick intro. I'm doing the intro this time, you know. Oh. And this episode is quite true crimey, which means there's a real murder, but we don't go into that much detail. What's it called? I wanted to call it The Lady in the Lake.

We've already done that, yeah. So how about Another Lady in a Different Lake? My favourite tongue twister was, he sat up on the balcony mimicking him hiccuping and amicably welcoming him in again. Oh, that is impressive, sir. Very much so. Yeah. I can't do that. My tongue moves too slowly. Yeah. I can't do any tongue twisters. I couldn't even say tongue twister there. Didn't even make it all the way through the phrase. It was too twisted. Why would you put a twist in the middle of a word? Come on. We have rubber baby buggy bumpers.

Ooh, surely a rubber baby wouldn't need bumpers on its buggy. It is the bumper if it's a rubber baby. Annoyingly, that's a perfect segue into the actual story, a rubber baby. Oh, boy, yes. So just hold that idea in your mind, everyone listening, and I'll do an introduction. Pretend you haven't heard us talking already. You're going to do an introduction, James?

Yeah, halfway through. I'll do a little bit of an introduction, a couple of minutes in. Yeah, a little go. Yeah. Nice. So, Alistair. Hello, James. Hello.

You sound surprised every single time we do that, when I say hello back. I think I am surprised, because I'm saying it thinking, I've already said hello to him. No, you said hello to me in 2013. And it stands today. It's a pre-existing hello. Here's something all of us listeners to your wonderful show wonder.

Are you two friends outside of the show? Bitter rivalry. Yeah, enemies. Boy, I'm sorry I asked. I think we know each other loads better through doing the show than we did before we started doing the show. That's happened to me and Scott as well. We detested each other, saw each other at parties until no one else would talk to us. So we had to talk to each other and discovered that we like a lot of the same subjects and love discussing them.

And then after a few years, we finally have warmed up to each other. It is a truth universally acknowledged that if two nerds are in a room, eventually a podcast will be produced. Yes. James, I just realised I interrupted your intro on the word hello. And I helped. Let's try that again. I'll go from my line.

Hello, James. Hello. We've got a deputy law person again, Alistair. Yes, get in. Eagle-eared listeners will have noticed a very familiar voice. I mean, if you're in the realm of listening to podcasts about folklore and weird stuff. Legends, you might say.

Things that would astonish you. You're going to know of the podcast Astonishing Legends. Yeah. And we have got Forrest Burgess. Hello, Forrest. Hello, hello, gentlemen. It is such a long time coming.

I was telling you both before we started rolling, so you know it's sincere that I enjoy your show so much. I have been a fan for days, weeks now.'s a jolly good fun as we say over here across this side of the pond lovely turn of fries we say a real wizard boom deal yeah that's how they talk i haven't watched any film made after 1949.

Did I say thank you so much for inviting me on? Because I meant to at the beginning of the long time. It was implied. Okay. Thank you very much for coming on. Also, I hope, was implied. Oh, indeed. Indeed. Yes, Astonishing Legends is like a Bigger Boys podcast.

It is. The Bigger Boys, you could push us around. You could take our lunch money. You could... We're known by hundreds and loved by tens so well we've got a north american treat oh yeah from an excellent book called washington myths and legends subtitle the true story behind history's mysteries oh history's mysteries history mysteries. I think that's an unintentional half rhyme there, but I like it a lot. And it's authored by L.E. Bragg. Which is French for the Bragg. Where?

The Bragg. Le Bragg. Le Bragg. The R is in the back of the throat, James. It's Bragg. Bragg. Bragg. Le Bragg.

I just now noticed, though, if you're going to write a book about myths and legends, and some would say tall tales, perhaps, and your name is Bragg, is there a connection there? A bit of nominative determinism, perhaps. I mean, which obviously is a subject that James Shakespeare is not keen upon broaching. Yeah, well, let's not explain what it means to anyone with using me as an example. All right, OK, OK. Is he a brag? Is he like a brag like the Pelton brag, though?

I swear, yeah, it is also the name of a beast. Is he basically a spooky horse? Or a man holding a sheet? Oh. Or a man who is naked but doesn't have a head? Yes, headless naked man. Oof. Doesn't really go into that on the back.

It just says she lives in Washington State. How sexist of me to assume. It's because le is, of course, masculine in French. Yeah, exactly. That's why I assumed. Wow, how appalling. Apologies. Well, you know where I got this book and the idea for this?

At a Costco. Do you have those? We do have a Costco's, actually. But over here, they're huge, out of town. Yes. But I think you've got to be a member to go in or something. You do. Yes, you do.

Really? Like the Masons? Yeah. I'm very much the Groucho Marx when it comes to supermarkets. I wouldn't go in at a supermarket that would have me as a member, to paraphrase him. No, that's totally understandable. But they welcome all types, and it is much like the Masons.

When you die, there's a ceremony by older men in aprons. But they have a great selection of books there. They have books in it? Oh, yes. They do. I can't imagine they've got books in the Costco's over here.

Who's going to an out-of-town shopping centre to buy books in bulk? Who's doing that? They're very reasonably priced there. But don't you have to get like five copies of the same book to get the value? Can I just get a gross of book, please? You don't have to buy like 12 can openers in a package to the same idea. You can purchase a book singularly, which is what I did.

So I saw this lying on one of the tables in Washington State. Whoa. And I thought, you know what, this will come in handy one of these days. And it has. Yes. So this story takes place in Washington, D.C. No. The other one.

You know, there's two. When I said D.C., I was thinking, I don't even know what that means. Washington State. State. Which is. Okay. Twilight Country. Yes, indeed. Would you two like me to set the scene? Oh, is. Okay. Twilight country. Yes, indeed.

Would you two like me to set the scene? Oh, yes. Okay. Well, this scene is takes place at Lake Crescent near the top center of the horn on the northwestern corner of Washington State, USA, United States of America, which Highway 101, the Olympic Highway, hugs on its bottom shore at the northern edge of the Olympic Peninsula, just south of the Strait of Juan de Fuca. Is that Spanish, isn't it, for John the... It's Spanish for Juan of Fuca. There was an old joke t-shirt that I love from a university or a fake university, or

as you might say, they're a uni called Juan de Fuca U. So it was quite a popular joke t-shirt. And if you look at Washington state, it's that kind of big, chunky, blocky peninsula looking thing hanging off the upper left-hand corner of the state. It's mountainous there. At least there's the Cascades, but around here, there are minor peaks of the Olympic mountains, which surround the lake. And the highest peak is mount storm king

oh wow that's a ridiculous i mean arrogant to name mountains the olympic mountains when like olympus is already a mountain oh no there's a mount olympus here in america in this area there's a mount olympus not that one there's a mount olympus is that a dance club oh i was confused enough by the Olympic Highway when you introduced that, because I thought it's that highway that is very good, but still technically an amateur. How does that work? They just can't earn money from endorsements yet. No tolls.

There's a natural divide, the Cascade Mountain Range. That's nicked from a Mario level as well, by the way, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, obviously. I'm more familiar with the eastern part of Washington and the northern Idaho Panhandle region. Those are my stomping grounds. But on the western side is where it's very rainy because of the Cascade Mountains. Very lush, beautiful green foliage and lots of trees, very twin peaks-y. Here, yes, we have old Mount Storm King. And you'll find this interesting. The old legend has it that the peaceful beauty of the glacial valley was marred by the bloody war between the Klallam and Quileute Native American tribes. And the second one is Q-U-I-L-E-U-T-E, pronounced, I believe, Quillute.

I watched a YouTube clip about a thousand times to nail that. So here's the old legend. For two days, Mount Storm King had witnessed the fighting and bloodshed and became angrier and angrier. And on the third day, Mount Storm King had had enough. And he broke off a chunk of his peak and he hurled it into the valley where the tribes were battling. Now, all of the warriors were killed instantly, and the massive chunk of mountain also dammed up the river that flowed into the valley, which then formed the crescent-shaped lake. And Mount Storm King's reflection can be seen in the clear blue waters of the valley where he stands guard to this day. So if you think that's crazy, haven't you seen Lord of the Rings? The mountains are alive!

But that's part of them. That's you think that's crazy, haven't you seen Lord of the Rings? The mountains are alive! But that's part of them. That's the thing that always gets me. It's like pulling your arm off to chuck at someone. Yeah, but you know, hey, I'd certainly chuck a fingernail clipping at either of you two and grow it back. I really thought he was going to warn them

using his might and majesty rather than just kill every single one of them. I guess you do things differently in America. It's like giants. You're stomping around. You don't know who you're stepping on. It's a rough world when you're bigger. Pants don't fit right.

And the lore has it that the land around Lake Crescent is still revered by the Klallam and Kulut tribes for the legend of its creation and avoided by the older generations because of the stories passed down of the older generations because of the stories passed down to the warriors being killed when the lake was created one mystery is that it was believed to be bottomless and never gave up its dead if one was to drown in lake crescent it was believed your body would never surface but then one summer day in 1940 the lake did give up one corpse which is what we're going to talk about, I think. Yes.

Wow. That was some great scene setting for us. Thank you. My scene they set. Wow. That was like the start of a play when two servants discuss all the other characters you're about to see. And then you're just rubbing your hands together saying, I can't wait to see these lords and ladies all stab each other. Right. Then you just go down to the lobby for a packet of crisps

because you know you can miss the next 30 minutes. And thank you for saying crisps. I really agree. I love it when Americans adapt their lingo, even though we all know all the American words because of television. See, I have my good friend, Gletters, who has his own podcast, Anomaly.coco.uk if there's anything i need to know about britishisms uh he quickly answers basically he's your alfred he would punch me in the throat

for saying that but uh but sure well alfred's got an edge to him as well you know alfred used to be in the army in some versions he did and they're you know they're making a movie just about alfred i hope it's just while he's cleaning. I hope it's old Alfred, but just while Bruce is out. And he's just like, well, we've got to get the silverware in order, Master Bruce. Tutting over some, like, he's got to re-darn the bat socks. It wasn't until I was older I learned to fold a toilet paper into a little corner at the bottom so you could easily grasp it off the roll. How is your impression of him so much better than mine?

I can't do it. I throwed away too many pairs of socks, Mr. White. Yeah, we're at an area of the Lake Crescent. I believe it's called Sledgehammer Point. Yes. Oh, that's another great name. So, gentlemen, pay attention to the names. There's some good Yes. Oh, that's another great name. So gentlemen, pay attention to the names. There's some good ones coming up.

That's another great one. There were these two brothers. They were fishing on the 6th of July, 1940. They found something, didn't they? Floating on the water. Yes. Well, as they steered their boat towards the object for a better look, they were aghast at what they saw when they

drew near because floating on the surface of that lake, that crystal pristine lake, was about a five foot bundle wrapped in blankets and bound with rope. Now, that's never a good sign. No. Anything wrapped in plastic, bundled, tied up, taped. Yeah. Get some gloves and put on a mask before you undo those bindings i think bundle is never a positive word really at school i don't know if it's similar in other parts of even britain alistair or america but if you were in a corridor and you heard someone shout the word bundle at break time it conjured up the ghost of the caretaker what happened mr bundle yeah mr bundle arises oh there's a lot of cleaning to do and a lot of very dirty boys.

I've started to get to the root of the mess. We didn't have Bundle. I assume it's a prank of some kind, James. A Bundle. I know a Bundle is just when everyone just piles. It's a pile-on, probably. Actually, that's probably more your neck of the woods, is it? The closest we had was in snow, you would get scrubbed,

which is that, but in snow. And everyone kicks snow and rubs snow on you, so you get wet. Ah, scrubs. Someone would just shout, scrubs. Scrubbed. They would shout, scrub. And the scrubbing would commence. After which you had been scrubbed.

Use that in context. Yeah, he received an after-school detention for scrubbed. Very, very close. What about little bundles of joy? Some bundles are good. You mean a baby? Yeah, that's a positive bundle, isn't it? That is three months of broken sleep

at the absolute best. What about when you get your phone and internet from the same company? That's also a scam. That is also a scam that costs you loads of money. There's no positive bundles. There are no good bundles.

You heard it here first. There's no such thing as a good bundle. I'm going to go out on a limb and say I think this bundle had a body inside. Well, you think? What? You think just a human body? I don't know. Yeah, a normal human body.

Possibly a prom king or queen. It was sort of human-shaped, but its skin seemed too white. If it were me in the boat being one of the two brothers, I could see not knowing immediately what it was because this skin was so white that it looked more like a mannequin. Now, this could be a prank, a churlish prank where somebody wrapped up an old store mannequin and tossed it in a lake. And that might float, perhaps. I've never tried to float a mannequin. But I think they saw what it was like, oh boy.

They took off with their boat, raced to the shore to report what they had found. They ran away, but in a boat. Yeah. Look, I don't want to start accusing anyone of hate crimes here, but as a representative of the ginger community, I want to pull up james on the use of the phrase too white are you saying there's something can i show you my shoulder here is there something unacceptable about that oh whoa turn down the ring light i could see the seat through it i just i think i saw how i died but but it's it's funny you mentioned that alistair because uh auburn hair does play a significant role in this case and auburn is posh for ginger yes it's the hyacinth bouquet to the bucket that is ginger thank you for pretending to understand what i'm talking

about forrest i also love that show uh it's our version of the west wing so of course the the clallam cantee coroner gets called in and they make an examination it's dr irving cavity and the sheriff charles kemp examined the body and yes of course it's a woman in her mid-30s but what was unusual about this corpse is that unlike most drowning victims, it wasn't bloated. There were no signs of decay or an odor of decomposition. And the body weighed less than 50 pounds. And so Dr. Irving Keveny said, I never saw a corpse just like this one before. The flesh is hard, almost waxy. Charles Kemp, Sheriff Charles Kemp said, it's more like a statue. The flesh has turned to some rubber-like substance. Hmm. Get this, gents.

Aside from the fingers, toes, and facial features that were missing, the body was pretty much intact and had turned completely to soap. Soap. Oh, wow. Like the way you make soap out of animal fat. That's exactly right. Oh, how disgusting, yet hygienic. Yes. So was it frothy around her when she was floating?

I don't think so. I think it was, it's, let meienic. Yes. So was it frothy around her when she was floating? I don't think so. I think it was, let me put it this way, it's not the soap you would want to use on your person. That's the brand name. That's the slogan. That is the slogan. It's not the soap you'd want to use. Lady soap. It's the soap you need to use.

Poor lady. Sorry, lady soap. Soap lady. So check out need to use. Poor lady. Sorry, lady soap. Soap lady. So check out this finding here. A pathologist, Dr. Charles P. Larson, was sent up from Tacoma, and he provided his analysis, which was, I think, the final take on what had happened physically to the body at that point. He says, I will never forget looking at the Lady of the Lake for the first time. I'd never seen anything like it, but I'd read about things like it. Here was a body that had turned completely to soap.

Because the waters of Lake Crescent are so cold, it's thought that it had preserved the body, this coldness, along with a depth of 660 feet or 201 meters. At its deepest, the great depth of the lake had thwarted the bacteria and organisms that would normally decay human flesh. Components of soap, calcium, and alkali are found at the bottom of Lake Crescent. So what had happened was a chemical change in the body. Now, this may take several years for this to happen, in which all the tissues turned to soap. But here's something that struck a haunting chill into my own bones in person and my own animal soap fats that I store around my midsection. It was believed that the body laid in an underwater stream, which accelerated the saponification.

According to Dr. Larson, quote, by soundings, I found that underground stream, which flows from Lake Crescent to Lake Sullivan. I got my sounding equipment down there and it struck an underneath ledge where the current carried it into the stream if you could ever get down underneath that ledge you would probably find from 50 to 100 bodies all of which have turned to soap oh so that's where everyone else went yes yeah but but doesn't that creep me out it's just that there's there's a watery grave of soapy bodies, smelling of shea butter and chamomile, waiting to be discovered. I mean, I've gigged enough to have been to plenty of hotels

and collected all sorts of soaps, but the devilish soap of the world is the human soap. Wow. It's at best frowned upon. It's got to be frowned upon. I mean, there's probably a startup in Hoxton attempting it. There's an Etsy store which, yes, they don't outright say it, but somebody who works there suddenly got slim from a little bit of liposuction

and now there's a bunch of soaps for sale. But here's the thing. This is how it was discovered, because when the body was first thrown into the lake, it had been tied with weighted ropes that sank it to the lake's bottom. And over a long period of time, the constant tension, I'm sure,

in the wave motion of the lake and deterioration of the ropes had caused them to break. And with the body now composed entirely of buoyant soap, it floated to the surface. And now we have a mystery on our hands. Yeah. Who was this murdered

woman well here's what we knew or what they knew at the time still found clinging to the body were remnants of a green wool dress with a jc penny tag uh but along with the the dress alistair the scalp still had auburn hair attached so she was redhead so it was racist what you said earlier james about her being too white she turned into soap i'm not being racist against soap bigot soap bigot bigotry so uh they couldn't identify her without a name uh so she laid in the county morgue for about two months before being buried in a pauper's grave at the clallam county cemetery i always feel bad about pauper's graves i feel like the branding for them is way off it isn't the paupers fault they're paupers just just call them something like regular or an everyday value something like that i don't think you want an everyday grave all right

unless you're like a vampire yeah that's not ideal so they have very little to go on but they have some clues here a noted criminologist named holl B. Fultz from the Washington State Attorney General's Office in Olympia. See, the capital of the state of Washington is also called Olympia. By this time, the press had dubbed her the Lady of the Lake. Hollis B. Fultz poured over reports of missing persons, of course, in the area. But then he got a hunch. And I love it when investigators get a hunch because it's not solid. It's just kind of it's intuition uh an old salty uh investigator gets a hunch uh because he then focused on a

missing waitress from a town about 20 miles east of lake crescent called port angeles now at the time she disappeared hallie illingworth was 36 years old five feet six inches tall with auburn hair and her husband at the time, Monty Illingworth, told the local folks there that she had just run off with a Navy lieutenant commander from the Naval Station in Bremerton. And then Foltz, of course, found this story to be fishy because Hallie had never transferred her union card. So what's the union card? I don't know. And I didn't bother looking. Investigator Holtz tracked down a sister of hallie's living near walla walla washington walla walla what down that is a name that takes a run-up yeah have you never heard of that place

i think it's what people say when they are surprised by washington right like when they open the door unexpectedly see washington walla walla washington that is. There's Walla Walla Washington. There's T-T-T-Texas. British Columbia? I don't know if that's a state. West Philadelphia? Don't you have any exclamations of surprise for some places in England? Just Cornwall. There's one place that has an exclamation point in its name.

What? Where's that? Westwood Ho! Oh! Exclamation mark. Oh, wow. And that was a town named after a book. That's a great fact. I kind of like that.

Yeah. Walla Walla is, now that's more my side of the territory. So we're talking across the state, and they were known for their sweet onions, the Walla Walla Sweet Onion. Which is a band, I assume. We're the Walla Walla Sweet Onions. I hope you like easy listening because it's all we've got. Take it away. This sister though that Holtz tracked down, she said the last time that she saw her sister Hallie was the week before Christmas in 1937. Now, Hallie had visited her sister one afternoon, and she left at that early evening, and Monty had come by the sister's apartment later that evening looking for Hallie.

Then he showed up the next day at the sister's workplace, once again looking for Hallie. And this time here, described by the sister, Monty was very disheveled, as if he'd slept in his clothes. And his explanation was that he'd been drinking all night in Port Townsend. Well, Monty said that when he finally returned home from his partying, he and Hallie fought and she stormed out of the house. And then Monty told the sister here, well, Hallie's left me. After our big fight, she packed a suitcase and she said she was never coming back. She said none of us would ever see her again.

Obvious bit of plotting there, I think. Yeah. From him. Yeah, get it? She said she's not coming back. So don't be surprised if you never see her again obvious bit of uh plotting there i think yeah from him yeah get it she said she's not coming back so don't be surprised if you never see her again she said she would not guys i think he did it yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah tell me how they got in i've done nothing but watch colombo during lockdown what faults looked into was the rope that had been tied around that bundle and he found that it was a type that had been sold exclusively by sears roebuck in port angeles angeles port angeles port angeles he uh yeah he went through the sales records at this sears which i think is a shop oh yeah yeah because i think they had a catalog

yes that's how i know of it they absolutely did yes yeah he found that there was one person in lake crescent who purchased a thousand feet of the rope. So he went to interview him, a guy called Harry Brooks. And he questioned him and he, you know, found out this guy had nothing to do with the murder. And just as he was about, the guy reversed Columbo's him, just as he's about to leave. What? The guy goes, oh, there's one last thing, detective. I loaned a hundred feet of that rope to

a beer salesman and he never he never gave it me back nor paid me for it he said that he needed to pull his truck out the mud but he never returned never paid for the rope they got some they managed to get some of that original rope off harry brooks and they they did some forensic tests and it was exactly the same it apparently had it was both made from the same pure hemp and they had the exact same strand count and and twist and were the same size it was definitely the same so please tell me that that beer salesman was hallie's husband. Yes. It was the beer truck driver, Monty Illingworth. They've got him.

They found him driving a bus in Long Beach, California. What an incredible true crime story about a spooky lake. Okay, Alistair, are you ready to deal out some scores, some hot scores? I'm ready to deal out scores like that detective dealt out justice. Possibly. I don't actually know what happened if he was convicted, but let's hope he was. Yeah, he was convicted. Don't worry.

Yes. Well, he was convicted, found guilty of murder in the second degree on March 5th, 1942. But yes, the jury had determined that it was more of a crime of passion. They're just passionate people. And it wasn't so much premeditation, which, boy, that gets you sent away. That annoys me.

The people who put some effort in go to prison for longer? Oh, so the lazy murderers. Well, you get rewarded for not planning it. But Alistair, I think this is why, is that I do not like the lazy, ignorant criminal. You hear these people, they have a plan. Sorry, are you a lord from Victorian England? Yes, absolutely. Are they a superstitious, cowardly lot?

He is Batman, Alistair. Of course. It turns out he's Batman. So I will answer your question more directly. Yes. Yes, James, I'm ready to score. I'm ready to deal out some justice. Let's get this guy. Let's nail it.

Let's nail him. Yes. And it. What's your first category? We're just going to get out of the way the supernatural element. Supernatural. Okay. Well, a mountain through like its head.

Yes. A bit of itself. That's pretty supernatural. Mount Storm King. Yeah, yeah, but this isn't the naming category, James. So don't try and influence me. I suppose a creepy lake that does not reveal its bodies, that does not disgorge creatures that fall within it.

That's quite spooky. I'm going to go with a two. I feel like if a mountain threw a big hunk of itself at you that wouldn't be spooky so much as petrifying pardon like and also you would be dead okay okay we're good we can take that for us because i think we're gonna do very well in category number two oh yeah naming what was the name of that mountain again, James? Mount Storm King. It's five out of five. Thank you.

It's Sledgehammer Point. Juan de Fuca, you. John de Fuca. Hollis B. Fultz. That was our detective. Irving Cavaney. Monty J. Illingworth. What decade are we in when all this is happening?

The 30s. 30, yes. Yes, because every American these days is called Mackenzie James. They have a surname first and then a first name second. Right. It's an unarguable five out of five for names. Yes. All classic American names.

Welcome to the Hall of American Names. You want middle initials? You betcha we got them. My partner Monty and I have got a special day for you you want the name craig to rhyme with greg it's funny because it's craig you want the word graham to not have any of its middle letters join us just start and finish gram gram i don't know what we're saying get into the hall of american names see in england you just you'd add an extra E or an extra G. Yes, but all of those would be silent.

It's actually the height of bad form to pronounce them. Right, right. Right, so category the third. Now, Forrest, I didn't tell you the name of this category because we wanted something that encompasses the detective element. I thought what I could do there is take the area that we are columbia oh i think we're in a different place actually i've just realized are we in columbia i just realized we might not actually be columbia so uh no columbia is a big big part of a naming of the

of the state the columbia river is, you know, part of Washington State's claim to fame, I believe. So well done, sir. Well done. Yes. Good. My wife, she loves this category. She thinks it's terrific.

She can't get enough of it. Are these figurines breakable? Oh, geez. Oh, I thought it was an ashtray. Oh, oh, I'm sorry. It's turned into Al Pacino. I think it's... Can I do Al Pacino?

I didn't know I could do that. One last thing. Hoorah. Oh, yeah. Well, it had true crime. It had a detective who just stuck with it, you know, and doggedly just whittled away until he had his man in the form of Hollis B. Wisenbaum.

Hollis B. Fultz. Hollis B. Fultz. Hollis B. Detective. Every day he's detective, yeah. I think it's, well, actually, I feel like I need to, the only way to score it would be to do a little act out where i pretend it's four and then leave and then i just come straight back in with the oh i just remembered these little details they drive me crazy it's five

yes and uh and credits or no we should end on a freeze frame. That would be... Yeah. So what's the final category? This smells funny. James, this case stinks to high heaven. It does. It smells funny for a dead body. Soap smells delicious. Don't know, it just makes you wonder about the origins of the body shop. I think it's a four.

And the reason it's not a five is that soap smells too nice and so I feel like you've got the good smells and the bad smells fighting against each other keeping you away from the top spot but that guy stinks to high heaven his story stunk his story did stink

his story was like oh she's gone away and she doesn't want to speak to anyone ever again that she knew before you're trying to float it up to anyone ever again that she knew before. You're trying to float it up to a five. Is that what you're telling me? Yeah, I think it might drop down and appear to be a four. I'm going to stand firm on this one.

The score has sunk never to resurface. It's a four. Fine. Okay. Okay. Very well then. Do you think that lake's full of other animals that have turned to soap? Oh, no, no. I'm telling you guys, down at the murky haunted depths,

there's all manner, it's a whole world down there of just dead, possessed, diseased, yes, soap creatures who all smell very neutral. Because I suppose if you had a fish that turns into it with the scales as well, you've got an exfoliant there. Nice. That would be quite nice, apart from that it smells of fish. with the scales as well. You've got an exfoliant there. Nice. That would be quite nice. Apart from that it smells of fish. Like salt crystals as well.

You've got a nice scrub going. Yeah. You could get a sort of like an octopus. I don't know if you get freshwater octopuses. Stick a sponge on the end of an octopus's arm. You've got yourself a loofah. Yes. Very Fred Flintstone thinking of you.

It's a living is what the octopus would say turn the camera that's a living you remember that joke that we wrote can we use that in every episode yeah yeah should we just use it once for a series

no i think we should use that every time it's a living forest yes sir thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Oh, yes. For taking a break from your astonishing legends to deal with our little flipperies. Kind sirs, this was a delight. I've been waiting a long time to do this. I'm just thrilled because, again, it's fun to hear you gents and your guests talk about such stuff.

And then it was a real treat and an honor to get to do it myself and i'm sure listeners are already familiar with astonishing legends and uh quite probably uh your stable mate the midnight library absolutely did you make podcasts in a stable there's a a production of astonishing legends productions ll Productions LLC. It is, yeah, so we're quite familiar with Miranda and Darling and all the Irma, the impish delightful elf, or whatever that thing is. I don't know. I was shown etchings and it chilled me to the bone.

Hey, one of these days we're going to have to have you guys on for a more serious grown-up big boy puns, perhaps, talking about one of your favorite legends. So many of our stories go back to the UK. It's a font of spookiness. Yes. It is. And colonialism.

Also, you guys speak American, so that's really easy for us to deal with. Howdy. See, there you go. You've got the accent down perfectly. I thought you were American for a second there James That freaked me out It's gotta be Avebury Get to the bottom of Avebury

That did come up on our Crop Circle episodes It's just the weird thing I've said it before and I'll say it again the weird thing about Avebury

is how little folklore there is about a village that's built inside a stone circle It's too quiet I don't like it We've got company Other lines from films Really? Yeah It's too quiet. I don't like it. We've got company. Other lines from films.

Yeah. It's too quiet. Let's get out of here. We're in. It'll be dark soon. We'll make camp here. Get some rest. you've been listening to lawmen with me alistair beckett king and me james shakeshaft and our special guest forrest burgess off of astonishing legends yes and if you've never listened to this

section of the podcast you might not know that we have a Patreon. Patreon.com forward slash LawmenPod. Yes, you can join the gang and get some goodies and access to extra bits of podcasts. Unsurprisingly, Forrest Burgess of Astonishing Legends, a podcast that regularly comes in at over two hours. There were some outtakes. We've got so much more outtakes. So check it out. Otherwise, we are wasting our time.

Get your wallets out and check it out. Your bitcoins? Can we take bitcoins? Not advisable, I think. No. When it strikes midnight, bitcoin turns back into leaves. So I wouldn't trust it. But I planned, I took my cow to town. Came back with three Bitcoin. Oh, James, I told you to get a good price for that cow.