Loremen Podcast - S3 Ep80: Loremen S3 Ep80 - 100th Episode (Pt. 2) The Margate Shell Grotto and the Ornamental Hermits

Episode Date: September 23, 2021

What is the Margate Shell Grotto? A Roman temple? A cubbyhole of the Knights Templar? The lair of a very odd Batman villain? Getting to the bottom of this subterranean head scratcher, the Loreboys meet the semi-aquatic Lord Rokeby and discover the tragic consequences of a rodent-bird love triangle. All of this, in front of a live studio audience!  This is the second part of our 100th Episode Extravaganza™ which you can find uncut on YouTube. With thanks to Angel Comedy at The Bill Murray and Kien of Negative Space Design.

Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm Alistair Beckett-King. And I'm James Shakeshaft. And this is the second half of our 100th episode live special, live special. Yeah, that is the quickest way we can work out to say it as well. So in this section, I'm going to take over and I'm going to tell you a story which I think has, I think it has everything.

It's got loads and loads of one thing. What's that? Winkle shells. Yeah, and if you want to know why there are so many winkles, keep a listening. And there may also be a few more penetrating questions from voice of the people, Chris Cantrell. He's grilling us and penetrating us. And I'll fade the music in right there, James.

We're back. Second section on time. I've never seen an audience return so swiftly after an interval. Well done. Round of applause to you for that. Really showing us what being on time could be like. So I have a story for you, James. Oh, go on. I would like to take you back to Thanatos.

What? The Isle of the Dead. Oh. Thanat. The Isle of Thanat. The Isle of Thanat in Kent. Friend of the show.le of the Dead. Oh. Thanat. The Isle of Thanat. The Isle of Thanat in Kent. Friend of the show. Friend of the show.

Kent. Kent. Okay, I may have built it up a little bit, but it's the home of Margate, which we have touched upon on the pod before, and of course, Dreamland, which I think we've spent way too much time talking about. I've spent way too much time there.

I'm just thinking about it. I can tell you're thinking about it now. Yeah, I used to play the Indiana Jones arcade game. The Indiana Jones Temple of Doom one. Do you know that? Where he has to whip children in order to save them. So I went to Margate last week to research something for this podcast. In the year 1835, a man named James Newlove was digging in his garden with his son Joshua,

and the spade slipped out of his hands into the hole. He had opened a chasm in the ground, an abyss, a black void of nothingness. That's really good. If you're digging a hole and you come across a hole... LAUGHTER Job done. He was quitting. Yeah.

So I think he did what any of us would have done. He got a rope, he tied it around his son Joshua... LAUGHTER ..and he lowered his dear boy into the mystery hole... LAUGHTER..to see what was down there. History doesn't record whether Joshua came back up with the spade. His one job. But he came back up telling tales of a cave

beautifully adorned with shells. They had discovered the Margate Shell Grotto. Whoa! Which is quite a famous tourist attraction. You might have heard of it. But anyway, we have mentioned it on the podcast before. We have mentioned the Margate Shell Grotto. That's one of the stories of how it was found.

The other is that some workman working for New Love moved a big stone in the earth and discovered a hole beneath it. But his daughter Fanny also claimed that Joshua had found it before that on his own by just crawling through a tiny crevice. We don't know. Like a sort of shell Batman. Yeah. Why do we fall, Joshua?

To discover shells. Criminals are a superstitious cowardly lot. I shall become a shell. Margate Shell Grotto is 200 square feet of subterranean mystery. I should also say, 200 square feet, not that much. It sounds like quite a lot. That's a relatively small space because of how cubes work. I don't need to explain cubes.

There isn't time. Oh. I've heard of squares, James. Go on. Imagine a square square. Whoa! You've just visualized a cube. Anyway, you go in down the serpentine passageway.

Every wall is adorned with shells, creating bizarre patterns that are unlike anything you've ever seen before. There are 4.6 million shells embedded in the walls. You go down the serpentine passageway, then the passages branch out around what is called the rotunda. So you can go left or right, whichever way you go, it ends up in the same place. It's called the dome. So you're standing under the dome and you can look up now and you can still see the sky through a tiny little hole. So that's where they found their way in. Then down another passageway to what is called the altar room, which used to have a vaulted ceiling and a fancy

wall, but a bloody German bombed it. Not the ceiling, that was just a landlord knocked it down so he could have a floor or something. He altered the altar room. He altered the altar room, but the altar is still there. It's around about the size of a bathroom cabinet. Has it got shells on it?

Everything's shells, James. I can't explain how many shells there are. Well, you did. There's 4.6 million. It's 4.6 million. I've got a little map here. The problem is I can't find an online version of the pamphlet that came out in the 19th century about it,

so I have to use the one from the Shell Grotto, which, as you can see, has a word search on the back. Is every word Shell? I'm just going to hold this just for the people in the room. You can see a really extraordinary, spooky Indiana Jones point-and-click adventure game-style map. Do you whip children to make them good? The panels have all been interpreted in various ways.

There is supposedly a turtle, which doesn't look much like a turtle, and an Ares that looks a bit like an Ares, and a fleur-de-lis, Panels have all been interpreted in various ways. There is supposedly a turtle, which doesn't look much like a turtle, and an Aries that looks a bit like an Aries, and a fleur-de-lis, and a phallus. That's French for fleur of li. Lee's flower. There's supposedly a phallus. I don't think it looks that much like a phallus.

But the majority of the shells are winkles. See the link? A little winkle. You see it? They are are winkles. See the link? A little linkle, you see it? They are flat winkles. Bad luck. Which are a yellowy orange shell. Unfortunately, years and years of gaslight has dimmed the brightness of it, but you can imagine how

beautiful it must have been when yellow-orange shells made shifting colour patterns over the walls. It sounds like a sort of shell magic eye. Yes, in that it was briefly popular. And I'm still just as enthusiastic about it. I'm very good at magic eyes, not to show off. I once did one from across the street.

What? I saw one in the window of the works and I was like, it's a dolphin. They were all dolphins. Yeah, they were, but on that occasion, it was also a dolphin. Now, the mystery, the first mystery is, what? And the second mystery is the Winkle shells, because those Winkles, you can't get them at Margate Beach. They're not there, the little Winkles.

The nearest place where you can get Winkles like that is Southampton. Can you imagine whoever made it being like, Maddy, I'm going to make a giant cave covered with shells. All right, you're going off down the beach. No, I don't like those shells. I'm going to Southampton instead. We're going to get them shipped in from Southampton. I'm going to get 4.6 million shells from Southampton.

This is not a Kentish accent, by the way. I've realised it is the voice of the accent from the Pirates memory game sketch in Little Britain. Oh. Including the fact that his wife is named Marjorie. I know it is. Only when I said it did I realise. I have an alternate take on why there aren't any of those

winkles on Margate Beach. What's that? I think he hunted them to extinction in order to make his mad cave. There are no winkles today. Nearly a winkle. Just because I can see James creeping

towards the belief that this is not supernatural. We've got two ghosts. It's haunted by two ghosts, a blue lady and a green lady. Is the green lady just the blue lady in the yellow light? In green, yes. They are very similar-looking ladies, that's all I can tell you. The uses to which the shell grotto has been put are unknown, but bound to be supernatural.

It's been hypothesised that it is a Roman temple, a Phoenician temple, a temple created by the Knights Templar, some kind of Margate Hellfire Club. Oh, yes. I like a Hellfire Club. I think the evidence for that is basically someone went in there and went,

this would be a good place for a Hellfire Club. And that's all the evidence that it could have been a Hellfire Club. Or it could have been created by a man called Thomas Bowles who said that he created it. So those are the possibilities. There is some reason to be sceptical of Bowles, which is that he claims to have made it as a child,

and there are stories of him sort of going down to the beach with a little trolley. It's like, oh, yeah, all the way to Southampton, five-year-old Thomas Bowles. You've got 4.6 million shells. It's not happening, Thomas. You're a liar. So it was probably a Deanhole, which I think is a really good insult that we could start using. Like, screw you, Deanholes. And a Deanhole is a type of sort of cave that's, I think, unique to Chalk, which is what the rock is around there. You bore down and then get in there and start digging out

to create a little network of caves. So what probably happened was they dug down into the dome area I described and then started digging the rotunda. And then later on, someone found that and expanded it to create the altar room and the serpent that I described. And then later, another person came with too many shells. They've got 4.6 million shells. I don't know what to do with. I've got an idea.

Have you had a wallpaper? Like that, but shells. The Enigma of the Margate Shell Grotto is explored by Patricia Jane Marsh in her book, The Enigma of the Margate Shell Grotto. So I strongly recommend. That's going to be on the shelf with the Enigma code. Alphabetically, yeah. So grotto comes from the Latin word crypta,

meaning underground passageway. Probably the origin of the word crypt, I guess. Yeah. And a grotto is like a decorated cave. And James, who do you associate most strongly with grottos? Jesus. Jesus, did you say? And James, who do you associate most strongly with grottos? Cheese. Jesus, did you say? Cheese?

Cheese. Cheese? Cheese. Just for the benefit of the tape, someone in the audience just said that they associate cheese most strongly with grottos. In answer to the question, who do you most associate with grottoes? The answer is cheese. Not even Mr. Cheese. Or Ms. Cheese.

Would you care to explain yourself while I repeat what you say into the microphone? Cheese grottoes. No, it's not a thing in England. No, we have shell grottoes on this. Oh, a German cheese grotto. I've never heard of a cheese grotto.

It's just edams. Now, I'm imagining like mini baby bells stuck like the shells. Kleiner Kinder. Bell. Do you have bigger baby bells? I'm just wondering, because we only get the mini baby bell over here.

You get the maxi baby bell. Or Bel. The small ones are called Baby Babybels. Baby Babybels. Baby Bees. Baby Babybel. Okay, I'm going to do that link again. James, what do you associate most strongly?

Don't laugh. Now it's changed. People are going to know there was a big cutout. Go back, oh, I wonder. link again. James, what do you associate most strongly... Don't laugh! Now it's cheese. Go back, oh, I wonder. Now it's cheese, isn't it? What do you associate most strongly with Grotto? Forget it. No, it's Father Christmas. Father Christmas. Sincer Klaus. Is what I thought you were going to say, and I was going to say, no, it's not that.

What? It's cheese. It's cheese. Now we have to keep that whole bit in the edit just to make any sense. Of course, we all associate grottos with the ornamental hermits of the late 18th, early 19th century. I'd like to reintroduce you to friend of the podcast, Edith Sitwell, and the ugliest book in the history of literature. Wow. The book I'm holding is The English Eccentrics by Edith Sitwell,

and it recounts in the late 18th, early 19th century, it was the golden age of the grotto, and of course, of the architectural folly. Because in those days, people were, as you know, crackers. And landowners started putting out adverts, because what's the point of having a little grotto if you don't have a horrible old man living in it? And you might think, oh, we'll just get a little man in. If we like it for a few weeks, we'll stick with it. Every one of the adverts is like, man needed for seven years. There's no probationary period. There's no probationary period to see whether they will be suited to it.

This is how Edith Sitwell puts it. Certain noblemen and country squires were advertising for ornamental hermits. Nothing, it was felt, could give such delight to the eye as the spectacle of an aged person with a long grey beard and a goatish rough robe doddering about amongst the discomforts and pleasures of nature. Yes, it is a truth universally acknowledged that a man in possession of a fortune

will eventually hire a horrible old man to live in a hole. They were like the YouTubers of their day. All that money, they didn't know what to do with it. They were just paying homeless people to fight for them. What do you get a man who has everything? A really old, weird looking guy to wander around the garden. The Honourable Charles Hamilton, during the reign of George II, put an advert in the paper that said he wanted a hermit to continue in hermitage seven years, where he should be provided with a Bible, optical glasses, a mat for his feet, a hassock for his pillow, an hourglass for his timepiece, water for his beverage, and food from the house.

He must wear a camlet robe, and never under any circumstances must he cut his hair, beard or nails straight beyond the limit of Mr. Hamilton's grounds or exchange one word with the servants. He lasted three weeks. Oh, what do you think got him? What do you think he fell out with? Fingernails. Yeah, fingernails.

That was the one I was thinking would be the most difficult one. He only lasted three weeks, but Paynes Hill Park, where he had lived, remembered him for up until at least 2008, I can find, with their annual Hunt the Hermit. I don't know what the Hunt the Hermit was.

A gentleman in Preston, Lancashire, for £50 a year, succeeded in getting a guy to live completely underground for four years. Of the desired seven. How do you enjoy that? How do you enjoy just knowing someone is underground? You can't. The point is, he doesn't get to see them. He's just going to be like, there he is.

He's down there. I can tell. Would you get a second hermitage, like a side hustle hermitage, if you were going to be underground and just dig out a cave to another another just yes yeah yeah yeah get to an adjoining grotto and take on that do people compare their hermitage you're like the uber of yeah you you are disrupting this market yeah i'm gonna i'm just gonna be like gig culture in hermitage you just do it for a quarter of an hour here they've got some people coming around. They need a hermit for a beer. Don't cut your nails.

Well, actually, you've prefigured what happened, which is that people started becoming freelance hermits. Not everybody waited to be asked. But they don't get the benefits of an hourglass. You've got to bring your own hourglass, but it is tax deductible. In 1863, in Newtonburgsland, near Ashby de la Zooch. Which is Ashby of the Zooch. In Leicestershire, one freelance hermit had 12 hats and 20 suits of clothes. Good lad. Yeah,

which doesn't sound that hermit-like, but this is what she says. Each one of them was adorned with an emblem, a symbol, a device representing a motto. Because this guy, he strikes me as the kind of guy who doesn't accept the mainstream narrative pushed by the so-called British biased corporation. And his grotto was a sort of, it was a garden really, where you could walk around the paths and there were little stations along there with different names, like when you're queuing at Disneyland.

And they had names like the oratory, the sandglass of Time, the Hen-Pecked Husband Put on Water Grawl, and God Save the Queen. It's like, it's what I imagine the Festival of Brexit would be like. If it had happened. And the symbols on the hat have names like Odd Fellows, Bellows, Helmet, Patent Teapot, Wash Basin of Reform, and of course, Beehive. So you can see the theme is quite clear. And they mean things like, without money,

without friends, without credit. To draw out the flavour of the tea best, union and goodwill. That was Patent Teapot. That one's just a bit of tea advice. You leave it and don't squeeze the bag Don't squeeze the bag You're getting tannin out Yeah all the tannins out Just leave it in there for a bit You were telling me to put the milk in first next I'm not having it

I just think Anyone who has a political or philosophical message Written on a hat Should be suspect I think I once saw a guy on the tube This was years ago And he was wearing a mask

A face mask Which in those days Was a sign that the person Was a crackpot and now seems perfectly reasonable but he was wearing a face mask and an aviator hat and around the rim of the aviator hat there was like a strip of ticker tape paper with a handwritten red ink pen message which went all the way around so i couldn't read it but it started with the words dear Dear White Women. Oh. So you didn't need to read on. I didn't need to read on.

But the hermit I really want to tell you about is a freelance hermit named Lord Rokeby. He was the son of Septimus Robinson, who was here purely because of his name. Lord Rokeby, a.k.a. the amphibious and carnivorous hermit of Hithe. Yeah, we're back on the coast of Kent. You are right to be excited. Every day, Lord Roakby, whose appearance was very much like that of a benevolent troll, walked very slowly, carrying his hat under his arm to the sands of Hithe. He was followed on these expeditions by a carriage and by his favorite servant, dressed in very elaborate livery. He erected a little hut on the sands at Hithe, about three

miles from Mount Morris. And from this hut, he would dive with commendable firmness into the sea, remaining in this with the utmost persistence until he fainted and had to be withdrawn forcibly from the water. That is the maximum amount of time. Whoa, yeah.

To begin with, I thought that is ridiculous that you would every day swim until you fainted on the other hand have you ever been like shopping or something and you've had a nice time but then after it you're like I can't be bothered going home I'm really tired now and you just want to be like pass out and be dragged home by a servant that's the worst bit about going to the beach is the packing up exactly you don't have to do it if you're unconscious. No. I should do that next holiday.

Eventually, he got sick of going down to the beach every day, so he built, on his own grounds, a bath fed by an icy pond, which was witnessed by a gentleman called Mr Kirby, who, as far as I can tell, was just nosy. So he was visiting, and he saw the house, and he was just looking at the grounds. And the servants were like, do you want to come in and have a look?

And so he went in and had a look, and he approached the bathhouse. And they were like, oh, you can't go in there. And he said, are you sure? And they went, yeah, all right, in you come. And they let him in, and he found Lord Rogueby unconscious. This is how he describes it. We proceeded, and gently passing along a wooden floor saw his lordship stretched on his face at the farther end. He had just come out of the water

and was dressed in an old blue woolen coat and pantaloons of the same color. The upper part of his head was bald. The hair of his chin, which could not be concealed even by the posture he had assumed, made its appearance between his arms on each side. I immediately retired and waited a little distance until he awoke. When rising, he opened the door, darted through the thicket, and accompanied by his dogs, made directly for the house. Just a normal day in the life of Lord Oakley. Yeah.

Just, you get out of your bath, you have a little nap, face down on the ground. You wake up, vomit into the house. Follow me, dogs. His sister, Fidget Montague. Small bows, small bow, small bow.

Fidget, Elizabeth Fidget Montague, it was a nickname because she was quite fidgety. She was so embarrassed by him. She wrote, I shall never be able to stand the joke

of a gentleman's bathing with a roast loin of veal floating at his elbows. Yes, that's right. He didn't get out of the bath to eat. Other records say that he only drank beef tea. And then she says that he had the meat in the bath with him. So now I think, is the bath the tea? That's what I'm asking. Is he in the tea and he is the tea? Thank you. Thank you for heckling Bovrilbath. BB. So apparently, as he went on, he became stranger and stranger.

And he wouldn't get out of his bath for anyone. For anyone less than the Bishop of Armagh, it says, which is specific. Yeah. Did he actually come out one time? I think so. Presumably he did. And he was like, all right, I'll go now. Get my blue my blue robe who are you the bishop of enniskillen keep walking he was probably very friendly but he would greet you in his bath and this is his sister found out

about it and this is really embarrassing someone who didn't know she was related to him told her how weird he'd been and she was like oh, oh, we were at a party or wherever, and there was this weird guy who wouldn't get out of his bath and kept offering us veal. Wet veal. Wet bath veal. Bath veal. Although she did say, it was nice veal. And he gave what he did not eat of it to her

And some others To be sure he was the particularest gentleman As ever she heard of But he was very good natured Although some people said that the meat was raw And that he was a cannibal Lord Rokeby I have one more hermit for you

A female hermit now Miss Celestina Collins Who was in the habit of And this has to be a direct quote, otherwise I don't think we can put it out. You'll see why. She was in the habit of inviting 30 fowls to sleep in her bed. Her favorite amongst these bustling and restless companions was an immense cock, whose spurs, as a result of age, had grown to the length of three inches this cock shared her affections with a huge rat and these two and these two inseparable companions were present at all her meals until

at the end grown savage because of the shortness of the rations the rat flew into a rage with the cock and mrs collins in her turn flew into a temper with the rat, striking him a blow which, to her great remorse, killed him. Oh. It's the age-old story. Yeah. Rat meets girl. Girl meets 30 birds. Girl kills rat.

Rat falls out with the cock. Girl punches rat to death. Ah, wow. And that is the story of Margate Shell Grotto and the Ornamental Hermits. Nice. Very nice. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

So now we need to move into the scoring section and we need to elect four law people. Do we have any volunteers? Because this is confusing enough as it is. Hello. What's your name? Hayley. Hayley, friend of the German lady. Welcome.

And the show. And indeed the show. Hayley, four law person. The first category I'd like to score in is supernatural. And I would like to remind you how spooky, how spooky the vibe is. I know I've only got two concrete ghosts Is one ghost in two different lighting states?

That James is a little thing I like to call theatre What do you think? Out of five? Out of five. I would have to say two one for each ghost So that should be one One for each. But I would like to raise it to three as it's a live show

and to reward you for your hard work on the 100th episode. A pity three. A pity three. A pity three. I'll take it. Thank you very much, Hayley. Thank you very much, Hayley. Three.

We need another four-law person for the next category. What's your name? Yes. Your name. Yeah, I realised how confusing that was. It's got to do with naming. I category? What's your name? Yes. Your name. Yeah, that's... I realised how confusing that was. It's got to do with naming. I said, what's your name? Okay, so what...

Were you going to judge it for naming, Alistair? You're going to want to defend yourself. In the category of names, Alex, what are you going to give me? Okay. Well, we had... Fidget.

Fidget Montague. James Newlove. Oh! We haven't... We have never excluded nicknames. Ashby De La Zooch. I can't even say that. Ashby De La Zooch. We've got all of the Phoenicians.

We've got James Newlove. Bit sexy. Grotto. The word grotto. Grotto. It's like Italian. It's got a little... Grotto.

Makes you think of cheese. Baby Baby Bell. Baby Bell said in the voice of David Bowie. This is David Bowie's Baby Baby Bell. Um, there's nothing too impressive in there. Whoa! Ouch! The 100th show!

I don't think we can get a pity score for every score. A four. Four. Oh, come can get a pity score for every score. A four. Oh, come on! Yes, thank you very much. Oh, yeah, that way, that way, that way. Thank you, thank you for the... Well-earned four, I'd say. Do you like this podcast? And the next category is going to be number of shells.

Number of shells. Yeah, that's the sound of ABK raking it back. Hello. Hello, I'm Chris. Hello, Chris. Hi, Chris. It could be four for every million. What?

Is it 400 million? Four for every million? That's 16. It's 4.6 million shells. Exactly. So 4.6. But we don't round up. So it's a four.

No, we don't round up. We don't round up. We're rounding up. I'm sorry. We don't round up. James,'s a four. No, we don't round up. We don't round up. We're rounding up. I'm sorry. We don't round up. James, the four-law person has rendered his verdict. 4.6 over 0.5, so it rounds up to five. Okay.

Yeah, that is maths. Yeah, we don't round up. That is maths. We famously don't round up. We famously don't round up. Did you used to be my neighbour in real life? I did. Okay, cool.

Hello. But how do I how do I not make that connection? I don't know. I've listened to all 99 of these. That's coming up

through that used to come through the floor. Nice. Oh, nice to see you again. Oh, nice to see you again. Hello. Good to see you again. Thank you very much.

And we need a volunteer to score the final category, which is... Why? Why? We've got a volunteer. Did you used to be my neighbour? I say to everyone.

My category is, why? And what I mean by that is, why was the Shell Grotto created? We don't know. It is an enigma. Why did any of the hermits do any of the things I described? Why did anybody want a dirty old man living in a hole on their land? There's so many questions and they're all why. Why?

That's three whys. That's three whys. That's three whys. That's three so far. Oh, he's wise. He's wise to you. He's wise to you. So far. Otherwise,

I was just breathing in there. Otherwise, could include. Why did the, what was wrong with the rat? It's three. You're giving me three. No, actually four. Four? It's absolutely bizarre. It's weird, isn't it? It's three. It's three? You're giving me three? No, actually four. Four?

It's absolutely bizarre. It's weird, isn't it? Yeah, it's a big double why, I think. Why are they not Winkles, you know? Why Winkles? Why, yeah. Why Winkles? Now he's helping me.

Yes. Well, you're five. Five? Yeah. Okay. You're the four-law person in the audience. He's the fourth four-law person. I do need that bag now.

I do need that bag. So James is getting a bag. Okay, you're the four-law person in the audience. He's the fourth four-law person. I do need that bag now. I do need that bag. So James is getting a bag now because a friend of the show... The ghost of Peter Underwood. The ghost of Peter Underwood got in touch. And gave us some books. Exorcism! Exclamation mark.

Yes. It's a musical. It's the book of the musical. So, Hayley, thank you very much for being the full law person you can have a copy of and also a big thank you to the grandson of the real peter underwood who sent us these books yes yes it's very spooky getting messaged by a famous ghost hunter who's been dead since 95 yeah thank you the grandson of peter underwood yes and thank you uh peter under, for writing the book.

Exorcism. Questions from Chris? Yeah, Chris has got a few more questions. Okay, we've got three more questions, then we're going to get out of here. Rosanna 20736 screams, was there much discussion over whether to bleep the swears, you f***ing tettie f***?

I think he riffed the end of that. I don't know if that is what was actually asked. That's not word for word, no. Was there any discussion about us bleeping swears or not swearing? I think in creating such a niche podcast, alienating people who don't like swears would have been a bad idea. But the big problem with the bleep is it always sounds like we're saying the worst possible swears.

And we rarely are. Next question from Chris? Yeah. Okay, next question. Sidura says, are there any lost episodes? Oof. Well, I mean, I suppose that's difficult to...

My question would be, how bad does an episode have to be for you not to wear it? Is my question. We'll find out next week. I don't think we have to put up with this kind of thing, James. There are lost episodes, I think. Yes, we recorded an episode at Edinburgh with Ed Hedges about a cockatrice.

Oh, yes. And the sound didn't work. The saffron cockatrice. That's where I learnt about the difference between 48 hertz and 41. 441 hertz. It sounds terrifying when you try to put them together because they go out of sync with each other, which is kind of normal.

You can edit around it until people laugh and then it just sounds like that hole that sounds like hell. And I did one about the Angel of Mons. Oh, yeah, the Angel of Mons. Which is just really boring. It's just very boring. I think it's a fascinating story, if you don't know it. Fascinating story.

Not the way I tell it. Nope. Actually, I was looking as well. The very first... Originally, we were going to do two stories an episode and they were going to get pitted against each other in the different categories. Oh, yeah.

We went off that idea quite quickly. Did we plan to have some kind of reason for the rating system being there? Yeah, I think that was what the ratings were for. Well, that went out the window. To be like, oh, this one scores better on naming than the other one. Right. Yeah, that makes sense.

But we kept... That makes... Yeah! Next question. Yeah, more questions. Got another question here. Do you think that giants exist? And if so, do you reckon that one of them...

James's mum about 40 odd years ago question specifically for alistair here okay do you think that you'll ever see a ghost through windows that have been double glazed no it just doesn't feel right does it another one is about the sort of the rating mechanic. What's going on there? Yeah, we've already done that one. We've done that, then. So, that's it.

Yeah. Thank you very much. Thank you. There, yes, well done, actually. Thank you, you, the listener. You know who you are. If you don't, we can't help. But if you do know who you are, and have your own debit or credit card details, you can join the Patreon. That's a good link.

Patreon.com forward slash LawmenPod. Yeah, and you get access to extra episodes and exclusive videos. And you can join the Discord if you want. 100 episodes, eh, James? 101. 101-ish. Yeah. What on earth are we going to talk about next?

So before we started recording, James, you said that you used to be a hologram. Yeah, so I casually dropped into conversation how I used to be a hologram at the Manchester Science Museum. Would you care to expand upon that at all? Briefly for a time, a hologram at the Manchester Science Museum. I don't see how that needs any more explanation. It was, I think there was kind of like a diorama of like sort of an 18th century lab and I was walking around as a hologram. And I think it was people who were doing something with nuclear powers or something.

I had to say computer in a German accent. I was a German. Not for the first time, actually, I've played an early German physicist. I think I might have actually played the same physicist twice. Really? In two different unrelated productions. Talk about being typecast. Which German physicist were you playing?

I can't remember his name, but he was a big influence on old stevie hawkins and is it like neil's boar or someone like that no a bit older than that this guy famously taught himself to swim from a book that's like and that was the scene that i was dramatizing in this stephen hawkins documentary that i featured in. Did you have to swim? Yeah. But like someone who had just read about it. Yes, yes.

Swim like I'd never swam before. That's how I swim anyway. And that was the one where, oh yeah, well, this is now a much longer story. That was the one where they gave me long johns that weren't long enough if you catch my drift. And three separate women came and laughed at my genitals they were brought in because like i put these long johns on and the thing about a long johns if they're not long enough in the body they're short johns you could you could see my short john and so the wardrobe woman kind of looked down stifled a giggle and said i better go get someone

and she got her sort of the wardrobe mistress to come in and looked at it. And then she went and got the producer who came in and looked at it. And in the end, I had to sort of... Do it in a mid shot. Take the top bit of the long john off and tie it around my waist with the arms dangling. It's just some protective dangling there to conceal. Yes, the john.