Loremen Podcast - S3 Ep81: Loremen S3 Ep81 - The Stow Poltergeist

Episode Date: September 30, 2021

The Loremen visit a famously chilly Cotswolds town and meet a quintessentially British poltergeist. In 1963, an ordinary Stow-On-The-Wold family experienced something quite extraordinary. Their chilli...ng tale features booby traps, a gifted plumber, and the most cantankerous household spirit since Gef The Talking Mongoose. Join us, on this spine-chilling journey, and also learn why Heraclitus didn’t know crap about rivers. Loreboys nether say die! Support the Loremen here (and get stuff): patreon.com/loremenpod ko-fi.com/loremen @loremenpod www.twitch.tv/loremenpod www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod @JamesShakeshaft | @MisterABK

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Starting point is 00:00:00 welcome to lawmen a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore i'm james shakeshaft and i'm alistair beckett king alistair this story today it's a spooky one we're moving into halloween month it's halloween eve eve eve yeah that's probably about right today's story is the stowe poltergeist or the stowe on the world poltergeist if you want to be more formal the stowe on the world poltergeist Alistair, are you ready? Oh, I don't know. Yeah. I thought I was, but then you asked me and now I'm afraid. This story I'm about to tell is, it's a real shocker.
Starting point is 00:01:09 It's actually quite a scary one. Oh, right. Okay. Are you spoiling the movie for me? Sixth Sense style? No, no, no, no, no. I'm just saying, come see The Sixth Sense and pay attention. Oh, okay, okay.
Starting point is 00:01:22 No, I'm actually a little apprehensive about telling this story. I'll tell you why later. All right. This story takes place in Stow-on-the-Wold. Chilling. You ever heard of it? No, I haven't. Is the Wold a river?
Starting point is 00:01:35 The Wold's a hill. Oh, is the town on a hill then? Yes, it is on a hill. Famously quite cold in Stow-in-the-Wold, and there are rhymes about it. The wind blows cold in Stow-on-the-Wold, and the cooks have nothing to cook with. It sounds awful there. Yeah, it's pretty boring. I did a bit of research into it just in general.
Starting point is 00:01:52 I thought I'd give it a bit of local flavour. There's nothing, apart from that it used to be called St Edward's Stow, probably after Edward the Martyr, who was King of England for three years, between 19... No, not 1975. Between 975... Oh yeah, he was famously the king in the mid-70s.
Starting point is 00:02:12 For three years. Yeah, first King of England to wear flares. To have sideboards. Oh, wait, wait, wait. Sideburns. Yeah, I just want to check. Did you make a mistake there, or is that a type of facial hair I don't know about?
Starting point is 00:02:24 Maybe it's literally just at my school, but it's like a nickname for sideburns isn't a sideboard something that your mum has like a decorative plate on yeah yeah it's where you keep your plates your fancy plates they call them sideboards maybe it was just the tough kid said it by accident once and yeah everyone what didn't dare correct him i'm picturing the tough kid as a 10-year-old with massive sideburns. So big you'd keep plates in them. Yeah, a commemorative plate with a picture of King Edward and his flares on it. Yes. Commemorating the day he got flares.
Starting point is 00:02:55 And he was 16 when he died, this poor king. Oh, bad luck. He was murdered at Corfe Castle in Dorset. Corfe Castle, what a bloody bloody loved the place yes did we do that right yeah you did actually i'm gonna leave i'm gonna leave the pause in i say extend the pause it was apparently by his stepmother and he was succeeded by ethelred the unready oh wow i mean if ethelred the unready is getting the jump on you yeah that's a bad sign exactly for your tenure come on well he was the brother of Ethelred,
Starting point is 00:03:26 and then a cult rose up around Edward, and they found his body was incorruptible. You know, the usual saint stuff. Classic saint business. And he was in Satan, in Saintens, what's that? Canonised? Canonised, not in Satan. No.
Starting point is 00:03:40 That's the opposite. Very much. By the Bishop of Sherborne. Oh, friend of the show, Sherborne. Yes. And apparently some people think that this cult of Edward rose up because people didn't like Ethelred. They preferred his sister Edith.
Starting point is 00:03:56 I mean, all I get from this is that the parents had a vibe, naming-wise. And that was the old name of Stowe-on- st edward stowe so that's why i said all that that's as interesting as stowe gets apart from this story the best recounting of this story i can find is in ghosts over britain by peter moss is a bizarre name for a book ghost over britain over britain 14 ghosts were seen coming in from a southwest little action from 1977 this was by peter moss and there was a couple of other versions of the story in folklore mysteries of the cotswolds and mysterious gloucestershire, both by Mark Turner. And this happened between 1963 and 1965 on Chapel Lane,
Starting point is 00:04:48 which was the house, the semi-detached house. Oh, someone's doing all right. Of the Petheridge family. Stanley Petheridge is the name of the dad. David Petheridge is the 14-year-old son. And the lady of the house is simply known as Mrs. Petheridge throughout. Mrs. Petheridge. No need for a first name for you, Mrs. Petheridge.
Starting point is 00:05:09 Not in 1977. 70? I thought it was the 60s. Ghosts Over Britain. Oh, yeah, yes. Was published in 1977. Of course. On the 14th of April, 1963, the Petheridges woke up to find that the trapdoor leading
Starting point is 00:05:23 to the roof space... Whoa, whoa, whoa. No way, Shake Shaft. It's just... Don't try and sneak a trapdoor in. The hatch go into the roof, in the ceiling, whatever you call that. Okay. It's a little trapdoor.
Starting point is 00:05:35 Okay, yeah. The attic door. Yes, the hatch. Okay, carry on. It was diagonally open across the opening. Oh. The aperture. A skew, even.
Starting point is 00:05:45 Yeah. Yes. Ascance. Akimbo? Would you say akimbo? No, I don't think so. No. So it was up there, and it was open to the attic, basically.
Starting point is 00:05:54 So someone went and got a stepladder, presumably Mr. Petheridge, Stanley, went and got a stepladder, went up there, put it back on. Go and get a stepladder, Mrs. Petheridge, he probably said. He probably delegated. Was he also from the Pirate Game sketch sketch it's the only accent i'm doing now at least we know her first name now imagine it bring my step ladder the trap doors are scant so they put it back all fine until the next morning that blooming trap doors open again whoa so they would have got, presumably,
Starting point is 00:06:25 would have got the stepladder again because I'm guessing the Petherages are a neat household. Mm. Which is why this poltergeist made such an impression on them, I guess. Because this is the story
Starting point is 00:06:36 of the Stowe poltergeist. Sorry, it sounded like I was pausing for drama there, but it was a sneeze. You're allergic to poltergeist. You should have warned me. The poltergeist. Yeah, I'm going to have to take an antihistamine.
Starting point is 00:06:51 You're going to be talking about poltergeisters. Polterguys. Polterguys. Is that the chap from, you know, the tour guys, reviewer? Oh, tour guys. Didn't like the tour guys. Do you think they're polterguys? It's the polterguys. It's the poltergeists.
Starting point is 00:07:05 What's the poltergeists doing? It's a Scorsese film. And it's Spooky Joe. You were supposed to smash a plate. Come on. That's my impression of a poltergeist. They called him spooky two times because he always moved the trapdoor two times. I'm realizing my lack of knowledge of A, gangsters, and B, poltergeists is limiting the improvisational potential here.
Starting point is 00:07:26 Well, this poltergeist did do it two times because the next morning that trapdoor was askance again. So they got the stepladder, went up, closed the trapdoor. Next day, it's a blooming again. I'm guessing they might have left the stepladder out this time. I certainly would have if I were Mrs. Petheridge. Stanley, the man himself, made a booty trap. He texts the poltergeist late at night just to see what he's up to.
Starting point is 00:07:50 He honey traps the poltergeist. The classic booty trap. He left a booby trap. That's what I said, you guys. You guys never listen to me. A booby trap, which was a cocoa tin with pebbles in. Guys, such a 60s booby trap. There's no way you'd be able to open that trap door without dislodging the booty trap. That really sounded like you said booty trap again. I did say booty trap. I like saying booty trap because then it means people correct me and I get to pretend I'm Data from the Goonies.
Starting point is 00:08:17 It's really funny. If you ever watch the Goonies again, Data's little riffs that he does, he just carries on muttering to himself obviously unscripted really he's really good that kid is great and after they laid that booby booby i said booby trap by accident then actually after they laid that trap the trapdoor didn't move again okay okay but pools of water appeared on the floorboards of the front hall.
Starting point is 00:08:46 And they thought nothing of it. Cleared it up. It happened a few days in a row again. Cleared it up. Thought nothing of it. And then they just kept coming back, these pools of water. So they called a plumber. And there were no pipes above that might have been dripping down and causing a leak.
Starting point is 00:08:58 And the plumber lifted the floorboards. There was a 12-inch gap. So they can't have been seepage. And the plumber said, weirdly, the plumber said, I think you've got a poltergeist. The plumber removed his monocle, straightened his cravat, and said, the ladies might want to leave the room for a moment. I believe you have a poltergeist.
Starting point is 00:09:20 Mr. Petheridge, I don't wish to alarm you, but I think you've got a poltergeist. Mr. Petheridge, are you sitting down? Yes, you but I think you've got a poltergeist. Mr. Petheridge, are you sitting down? Yes, you can see I'm sitting down. We're in the same room. Mr. Petheridge, stop fiddling with the booby trap. I think we're dealing with one or more poltergeists. And from then on, things started to ramp up. Water was trickling down the bedroom walls. At one point, nine bowls and buckets had to be put out to catch the drippage.
Starting point is 00:09:47 And after two months of this, the first note appeared. I don't think I've ever heard of a poltergeist writing a note. This one did. It wrote loads of them. And they were all on scraps of paper torn from calendars, exercise books, magazines, bits of wrapping paper, in this weird, described as spidery handwriting. And the first message fell in front of Mrs. Petheridge at the same spot where the first water pool was found. Do you want to know what it said on that note? I do.
Starting point is 00:10:16 So we're talking about a little piece of paper that just fluttered to the ground in front of her. Yeah. Okay. And on that piece of paper, it said, in spidery handwriting, I'll speak to you tonight yeah and so the petherages went to bed between 9 30 and 10 p.m as normal evidently thought nothing of it and at that time a voice started muttering i quote as if on a telephone from a long way away
Starting point is 00:10:41 end of quote all editors know eg australia back to me telling the story now i'm not sure i've gone a bit tenet there i'm not sure where i am now this voice continued for several hours just muttering gibberish and there was swearing and obscenities which mr and mrs pethridge did not like no not not in front of Mrs. Petheridge. They eventually got him to moderate his language and called him George. And now the notes and muttering continued for two years. Two years? Intermittently, on and off. You got scribbles on the walls and the ceilings.
Starting point is 00:11:17 The lights and the TV got turned off. The water main got turned off. The main stopcock. The headboard of the boys' bed had gouges in it apparently marbles were thrown down the stairs one time and also a heavy mirror got moved oh i told them in the wrong order i should have ended with the gouged head portion yeah i mean i tried to ooh a heavy mirror being moved but yeah okay then should have ended on the marbles clearly the highlight one time mrs pethridge went into her son's bedroom where david was sleeping and saw emerge from under the
Starting point is 00:11:51 pillow a baby's hand what and before her eyes it grew to adult size and then into old man age like a gnarled, withered old hand, and then it vanished. Ah, that didn't happen, did it? She was asleep. That was a dream. Yeah, it's probably a dream. But still, that's a really scary dream.
Starting point is 00:12:13 A baby's hand turned into an old man hand in front of your eyes. Yeah. And amongst the nonsensical burblings and on the notes, the writing on the notes was quite meandering and peculiar peculiar but a few phrase would stick out like going over beds made while it's fine don't show her none of my
Starting point is 00:12:32 writing and my real portrait oh my real portrait implies the existence of a fake portrait yeah that's very exciting and once the voice used the pet name of Mr. Petheridge, which no one will guess, is Gramp, which is weird. Gramp? Yeah, that was his pet name from his wife. He's not a grandpa, though, is he? No, the boy's only 14. But she used to call him Gramp. One time when he was changing, he was undressing,
Starting point is 00:12:59 the voice said, What are you staring at me for, Gramp? Like he was undressing and looking at the poltergeist at that point which is unnerving for the poltergeist sounds like the ghost was also undressing at that time or he wasn't and he just from the poltergeist point of view mr stanley was just staring at him taking his clothes off maintaining full eye contact while taking his clothes off maybe ghosts are naked all the time. Poltergeists, they could always be naked. You don't know.
Starting point is 00:13:26 Yeah. But also, I wouldn't use a pet name in that circumstance if I was annoyed. You'd make a formal request. Yeah, I would use their Sunday name. I'd say Mr. Petheridge. I am a poltergeist. If you're going to stare at me, keep your trousers on, please, sir. Yeah, that's reasonable.
Starting point is 00:13:41 So they tried to question this, but there was so much... They couldn't really get much sense out of it but they seemed to at one point it said that it was the ghost of a builder of the house who died 20 years previously but they don't really know and apparently this made the news and there were books and pamphlets written about it, and it was in the papers. According to Peter Moss, a very large circulation Sunday paper offered them five grand if they would confirm that the sun was behind the hauntings. Look, I didn't want to jump in as a cynic, but I did think that the sun was a likely candidate.
Starting point is 00:14:19 Well, they point out on many occasions that when the notes or the voice appeared, David was not in the house at all. Really? Yeah. Which is kind of like saying, I don't think Bruce Wayne's Batman, because whenever Batman's here, Bruce Wayne's not here. And it was pronounced as genuinely supernatural by a third party who witnessed most of the phenomena.
Starting point is 00:14:41 And that was a local vicar. And that local vicar was canon harry chills canon harry chills from the canon harry chills episode is that wick christington yeah wick christington say it with the flourish canon harry chills load up the canon harry chills yeah from wick quick christington yes wick christington he's just made a cameo wow he said it was definitely a ghost well he would know guy with eyebrows like that and now i also found in one of my other books a little what's the word for a little bit of extra on the end postscript yeah a little postscript the family went on holiday to devon near dorset we don don't need to do that. Okay, okay.
Starting point is 00:15:27 And the poltergeist followed them. And they befriended a local vicar down there who exorcised the ghost and got rid. Which I think, just going back to the whole Harry Chills conspiracy, it seems like it was possible to get rid of this ghost if you'd really tried. They went on holiday and the ghost went on holiday with them like a sitcom.
Starting point is 00:15:43 Yes, but they tricked it into staying on holiday. Because the ghost was leaving the series to pursue serious acting roles. I might just stay here in Devon, says the ghost. Off camera as well, because it was fine. The first episode of the next series, they couldn't be bothered to pay for the actor to come back in. Yeah, it's all agent negotiations. I suppose a note is it's sort of MO yeah it's all agent negotiations i suppose a note is it's sort of mo it's like when picard became a borg oh right was that for age yeah patrick
Starting point is 00:16:11 stuart was asking for more money and so at the end of the series picard becomes a borg because they didn't know whether they were going to have him back in the next series and the first episode of the next series is just there's a note wesley crusher reads a note saying i'm sorry uh wesley's in charge now um having a lovely time being a borg i think i'll stay at it for a bit ensign you have the bridge yeah and that would have just been it bye everyone i'm bored now and you never would have heard from patrick stewart again wow but luckily they decided that he was the good thing about the show and they should probably pay him more so that he would stay and so he'd stop being a borg now i said i was a bit scared of telling
Starting point is 00:16:55 you that story because the other day when we did a little bit of recording and i happened to mention just conversationally that i was quite looking forward to telling this story it was a really scary one do you remember what happened at that exact point what happened i had to run away because a pipe burst in our bathroom a wall started flooding through yes started flooding through trickling down the walls we had to put three four pots out at one point four pots to catch the water oh is it okay now? Yeah, it's fine. Plumber's been right. There is a hole in the kitchen ceiling
Starting point is 00:17:29 where the plumber got into the pipes. Have you checked with a vicar about whether there was a supernatural? Sorry, I'll say that again. Have you checked with a plumber about whether that was supernatural? You know what? I didn't ask, and that's on me for not asking.
Starting point is 00:17:43 Well, really, I think an honest tradesperson would tell you if there were supernatural activity. They should, shouldn't they? So anyone can be a plumber these days. If they're spooky approved. Spoopy approved. It's day one of plumbing school. The difference between a blocked pipe and a ghost. You need to know the difference, really, don't you? You need to know what tools you're going to be bringing out. An adjustable crucifix.
Starting point is 00:18:05 So, yeah, that's the old spooky little to be bringing out. An adjustable crucifix. So yeah, that's the old spooky little tale. Spooky. Spooky old story that crept out of the pod and into real life. Maybe like the ring spoilers.
Starting point is 00:18:14 Spoilers for the ring there. Spoilers for the ring and my real life. Everyone who listens to this episode will, within seven days, have a plumbing emergency
Starting point is 00:18:22 or a spillage of some kind. Someone will, I reckon. Yeah. There's a one in a hundred chance. Is that how frequent you think spills are? How many listeners do you think we have? Yeah, the listeners. But we do have more than that.
Starting point is 00:18:37 We do have more. And actually, you know what? Our listeners are of such high quality, they probably regularly upkeep their pipes and are well protected against poltergeist. I am literally only going to call them poltergeist now forever it's a good name isn't it yeah that's a great story thanks while since we've had some proper old ghosts it's up there with you know the enfield haunting the battersea poltergeist that one what about jeff the talking mongoose how do you think it ranks alongside jeff i think it has some crossover with jeff it may be that i don't know how the dates line up but he
Starting point is 00:19:11 may have moonlit in this house saying oh stop staring at me gramps yeah a sort of cheeky voice slash family of liars it has somewhere it's got something in common with jeff but the old trap door thing at the beginning it's got that little bit of spookiness, like in Paranormal Activity. Yes. That all starts off with their loft door opening mysteriously. Yeah. Before you know it, you've got all footsteps appearing in talcum powder.
Starting point is 00:19:37 Riddled. My problem with the Paranormal Activity film is because it's very naturalistic and the guy's a filmmaker. So that's the reason he's filming all of this stuff as it starts to go weird but by about 20 minutes into the film before anything really scary has happened he's already got the best footage of supernatural activity that has ever been recorded in history like already you would be internationally famous based on the things you filmed because nobody has ever filmed anything as good as that you don't have to wait until a demon eats you even better than when that
Starting point is 00:20:08 pirate opened the fire escape is that in the theme park it's like cctv footage yeah of a pirate ghost opening a fire escape of a door being opened yeah it's just a person isn't it yeah it's not a ghost that's the person it was the back door of alton tower's dungeon and people are always like no because there was nobody in the building at that time it's like yes there was the person on cctv in this video yeah let's score this poltergeist right then first of all naming peth petheridge petheridge i can feel what i like is you put a little flourish in petheridge petheridge you said it with a flourish you said it with a flourish you said Pethridge? Pethridge. I can feel, what I like is you put a little flourish in Pethridge. Pethridge. You said it with a flourish.
Starting point is 00:20:47 You said it with a flourish. You said it with a flourish. Flourish. Say it with a flourish. Sorry, my whole face is very tired today. I can't get any of the parts to move. We've got Edward. We've got Ethelred.
Starting point is 00:21:00 We've got Edith. Ethelred the Unready is an epithet. Well, I mean, it's not a particularly good nickname, but it's full of character, isn't it? Ethelred the Unready. Yes. That's great. And Edward the Martyr.
Starting point is 00:21:13 Edward the Martyr. And Edith the Sister. Good-ish names, yeah. Ghosts Over Britain. The book Ghosts Over Britain, yeah. Stanley Petheridge. Stanley Petheridge, David Petheridge, Chapel Lane.
Starting point is 00:21:28 That is it. Okay. It's a three. Yeah. It's not terrible. Poltergeist. Do we get any points for coining that name? I don't think so.
Starting point is 00:21:36 Cause I think we coined that. I'm not, I don't want to give the Petheridge's credit for Poltergeist. Or it could have been Darren and Claire or whatever. Those tourists were called who think it's tour guy really i had something that i forgot to mention can i bring it in now okay yes yes go on there's a local an old folk tale about stowe that i'd forgotten apparently the road from burford to stowe is really cold and one winter a group of travelers got waylaid and they were saved by a a little white cat and though and
Starting point is 00:22:09 they referred to ghosts the ghosts that were outside their caravans and scaring them all right up they referred to them as snow foresters oh which is quite a cool name snow foresters how did the white cat save them oh it just told them to go to the church and sing on Christmas Eve. Spoke to them? Yeah, yeah, yeah. In English? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Probably local dialect, but yes. It didn't just leave a message like a ghost would.
Starting point is 00:22:35 Or like a cat. When the cats leave it, left another message. A pool of water. Mysterious and unexplained pool of liquid. That's really good. foresters snow foresters wow i think i might have to i don't really want to give you a four but i think i have to i think you have to out of respect for that yes good great i'm gonna let you know now i'm feeling pretty confident about this one okay yeah supernatural well you're telling me it couldn't
Starting point is 00:23:03 have been a little davy Petheridge? He wasn't even there. He wasn't even present. Loads of notes. The notes still exist. They didn't even turn to dust, mate. And this has been verified by two separate vicars. Multi-vicar, yeah.
Starting point is 00:23:15 To be honest, it's the presence of an actual physical note that makes me sceptical. Oh, have I turned you then? Well... I've turned you to dust, in a way. Oh, have I turned you then? I've turned you to dust, in a way. Now, yeah, if those notes had sort of burned up as soon as they were touched by a human hand, the ink briefly glowing before it winks out of existence,
Starting point is 00:23:37 clearly supernatural. What I mean is that's real paper. That's got to have come from somewhere. What, is a poster that's popping into Ryman's? Getting some fool's cap? No, I said it was just ripped off things, off calendars, off wrapping paper, out of exercise books,
Starting point is 00:23:51 which is the least confusing one of the lot. That's where you get most paper from. Oh, exercise. I don't know. Do Americans know what exercise books are? They're just notepads. They're not like a little booklet that everyone's issued with
Starting point is 00:24:03 telling us how to do press-ups. Yeah, it's what you write in in school yeah frankly on tv i don't think i've ever seen them ever writing anything all i've seen them doing is doing multiple choice tests and then taking books like a massive pile of books in and out of lockers yeah carrying books because evidently in america the bags aren't big enough. No. And people in the film industry writing on yellow notepads. Yes. You must have seen this. Supernatural. It is a five.
Starting point is 00:24:31 Yeah. I'd love to knock it down because I'd like to see the notes. Even if you were going to knock that down, what about the burbling, weird, gibbering voice? As if on a telephone from a long way away. Like Australia. E.g. Australia. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:24:43 All right. Yeah, it's five. It's five. There's a lot of stuff going on here. That baby's hand that grew into an old man's hand. Okay, that one is really scary, but also definitely a dream. Definitely a dream, but very scary dream, right? Really scary dream.
Starting point is 00:24:59 Terrifying dream. Okay, then. Next category, moistness. I'm going to need a moistness rating from you yeah that's a lot of pools of water isn't it how many little bowls do they have to put out nine at one point nine that's a number of power isn't it nine uh-huh yeah and and the plumber who was also an expert in the supernatural yes he said that it wasn't coming out of pipes called it early doors the mysterious pools of water there in themselves.
Starting point is 00:25:25 The trickling down the walls. Yep. So wet. So I'm going to go for a four because some elements of the story were dry. Yeah. Yeah. The paper. The paper was dry.
Starting point is 00:25:36 We know that. The notes were dry. Big mirror was dry. Just moved. Very dry. Yeah. Fair enough. And final category?
Starting point is 00:25:42 Final category. Now, I was kind of relying on scoring a bit higher on Moistness for this one, because then this would have been very easy to go into this category. Bunch of fives. Okay. So were you banking on me having given you five for everything so far? Yeah, I would have thought that I should have got a five for Moistness, to be honest. Okay.
Starting point is 00:26:02 I definitely got a five for Supernatural. You did? there was five grand offered by the sunday newspaper okay yeah very good and five fingers on the old hand five fingers on the baby's hand five fingers on the grown man's hand of five fingers on the old man hand ah they're the same hand james you can't count the same hand three times but is're the same hand, James. You can't count the same hand three times. But is it the same hand? Can you step in the same river twice? Yes, I've done it. What, about five times? Yeah, you could easily.
Starting point is 00:26:30 It's really, you've ruined your socks. Yeah, at that point, you will be regretting not wearing wellies. But yes, you can step in the same river twice. That is how rivers work. Not like, oh, there goes the ooze. Nobody has ever defined a river as the water that is currently in a river. That'd be done, eh? You've got to move your head really quick.
Starting point is 00:26:48 You know when you see a weir and you move your head really quickly and you can follow like one bit of water's travel down? Yeah, the same bit of river. Yeah. Yes, you can step in the same river twice. Okay. What's the, I've forgotten the philosopher's name. Heraclitus?
Starting point is 00:27:01 I'm just, no, I'm just making up old sounding names now. Heraclitus. Heraclitus. It's like that, Heraclitus.'m just no i'm just making up old sounding names now heraclitus heraclitus it's like that heraclitus you don't understand rivers he's all men because he says it's not the same river it's not the same man what he's done there is he's got confused about two different rivers he's the last person you'd want to call in a murder trial is he and now the witness heraclitus did you see the accused on the night of the murder? Nope. Drowning someone in the river? Nope. Do you see him in front of you now? No.
Starting point is 00:27:27 What river? That river's in the sea now. Ah, God. Blooming Heraclitus. This is why everyone hates philosophers, Heraclitus. In Heraclitus's defence, someone else said that. Oh, are you saying that it wasn't Heraclitus that said that? It wasn't Heraclitus that said it. It wasn't Heraclitus that said it.
Starting point is 00:27:45 It was a different man. Oh, very good. He'd love that joke. You know what? He'd love, he'd blooming love that joke. If I had a time machine and a basic command of ancient Greek, that's what I'd do with it. You'd go and tell Heraclitus that joke?
Starting point is 00:28:02 Yes. All right, a bunch of fives. I suppose we've got to give you five. How could you? I really gamed the system with that one, and I'm not sorry. You really did. But I did also enjoy the philosophical diversion. Well, that concludes today's reading.
Starting point is 00:28:19 Thank you very much, James. Thank you. No problems. So, Snow in the World is chilling in two senses of the word now. Yeah. They were quite laid back, the family. They were quite chilled about what was going on. Like, we will go to bed at the normal time
Starting point is 00:28:46 yeah I would have had night vision goggles wait it was the 60s x-ray specs whatever the 60s equivalent of night vision goggles lights yeah
Starting point is 00:28:53 putting a light on was the 60s version of night vision goggles yeah listener if you enjoy the mindless gibbering of uh ghost slash teenager
Starting point is 00:29:03 you are our kind of person get onto to patreon.com forward slash lawmen pod and join us join us join us there's so many of those quotes going around from ancient philosophers and like every second one you see is just nonsense. It's always like, believe in yourself, because nobody else will. Plato. Plato didn't say that.
Starting point is 00:29:32 Plato's thing wasn't writing general advice. Stop sharing memes. Stop sharing memes. I saw one the other day. It said, put a little plastic tub from The Takeaway next to your ice cube tray when your ice is done pop it in that and refill it you got more ice shake shaft classic aristotle no thank you also just fun fact the next story uh in ghosts over britain the literally the next page is called the story's called the naked embrace oh
Starting point is 00:30:06 seedy quite a seamy story of a ghost but that's a story for another day and another man if you ask the reclutas god i hope we're pronouncing that right it won't be like heraclitus heraclitus if you're if you're greek let us know how Heraclitus is spelt, and please confirm that it is pronounced Heraclitus. If you're ancient Greek and you have access to a time machine, can I borrow it?

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