Loremen Podcast - S3 Ep84: Loremen S3 Ep84 - Bethany Black - Grace Darling

Episode Date: October 21, 2021

James and Alasdair are joined by comedian and actor Bethany Black (Doctor Who, Cucumber), telling the tale of Bethany's own ancestor, the lighthouse-dwelling heroine Grace Darling. When storm winds cast a steamship onto the jagged rocks of the Farne Islands, nine people are left clinging onto the prow and - by extension - life. This episode features goat-riding devils, an encounter with a Pontefract psychic, and one Mr. Sillyman. Plus, an opportunity to discover whether a leaking engine is a big deal on a steamship (HINT: it is). Content Warning: References to drug use, Queen Victoria, and Queen Victoria's drug use. Check the sweet, sweet merch here... https://www.teepublic.com/stores/loremen-podcast?ref_id=24631  Support the Loremen here (and get stuff): patreon.com/loremenpod ko-fi.com/loremen @loremenpod www.twitch.tv/loremenpod www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod @JamesShakeshaft | @MisterABK

Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm Alastair Beckett-King. And I'm James Shakeshaft. And in this episode, we have a true story, James. A true story. Mm-hmm. Featuring deputy lawperson Bethany Black. Oh, yes.

Off of stand-up comedy slash the telly. Yeah. Maybe we've got new people listening. So to explain, we talk about folklore and then judge it out of five. Via an arbitrary scoring system. In various categories that, as you'll see, don't make much sense. This is the true story of Grace Darling. Not to imply that the other stories weren't true.

Wait a minute. James. Yeah. Come with me. I've got a guest law person for you. Have you? All right, yep. Just follow me around through this narrow passageway.

Oh, yep. All right. Oh, I've had to go sideways. That's okay. Okay. Now, through that curtain. Right now, I'm spinning you around so you don't know where you are. I feel ill.

That's natural. This checkerboard floor and red velvet curtains are freaking me out somewhat. I was about to say I'm removing your blindfold, but now I realize you've been peeking this whole time. Yes. Look in the corner of the room. The Red Room Black Lodge. The Bethany Black Lodge that we have found ourselves in.

It's Bethany Black. Hello, Bethany Black. Hola. Yeah, hello. Hiya. Welcome to the podcast, Bethany. How are you? I'm very well, thank you.

Better than either of you two, by the sounds of things. Yeah, we both have quite bad colds today. If this this episode is bad i don't want people to blame bethany because because oh i accept no responsibility listeners will probably know bethany from i don't know if listeners have heard of the tv show doctor who but it's kind of like a little niche thing that some people are into doctor what they won't recognize my voice and you sound totally different in the podcast to how you sound in the show Doctor Who, where you play like a cyborg bodyguard character. It's a cloned space warrior. CS dubs. I was a cloned space marine. There are millions who all have my face with a different face tattoo with a different number in Japanese. Are you like the Django Fett of the Doctor Who-niverse?

Yeah, yeah, I am, yeah, yeah. And had 50% of the audience not absolutely detested the episode, I would be in it all the time. I, unfortunately... It's hardly your fault you were in the worst episode of Doctor Who, but that's not your fault. Yeah, that's kind of how it is, because one of my favourite things that happens every year on my birthday, because there's very few other Doctor Who actors who share my birthday.

Various different Doctor Who sites and stuff go and share tweets going on, Happy Birthday to Bethany Black who played 474 in Sleep No More. And all day on my birthday on Twitter I just get thousands of people going, You ruined it! What?

And I go, oh thank you very much, this is such a lovely birthday message message I really hope you have a wonderful Christmas to refer to that episode all the other actors had a cold yeah so that was probably the reason why it was yeah but they altered my voice they pitched my voice incredibly low uh without telling me either that was the other thing they didn't say anything they didn't say that's what they were going to do and then I watched it I went oh they Dave Prowse you they did Prowse me yeah although it was actually me because i know for a fact it was me because uh i had to go and sit in a little recording booth in in soho with mark

gators for an entire afternoon did they ply you with whiskey and cigs i kind of wish they'd tried at the very least so i'd like to tell you the story, James, of the legend of Grace Darling. Grace Darling is herself a local legend, a true real world heroine from the mid 19th century. I'm genuinely stunned. Bethany is related to Grace Darling. What? Yeah. And also, you really look like Grace Darling.

I know. It's ridiculous, isn't it? If you go and have a quick look over on the Wikipedia page for Grace Darling. Which I will now. Yeah, go and have a look at the portrait that is on there. Oh, yeah. Have you got a lampshade that you could put on your face? Is she wearing a lampshade?

She appears to be wearing a lampshade in the picture I've filmed. She's got a proper Victorian bonnet. She does look like she's got a giant croissant on her head. She is one of my ancestors. What? So I have brought you blood, James. We all know the power of blood. Yeah.

We have a blood connection with this story. What did she do? I say we save it. I'm going to take you back to the beginning of the story. Oh. It's the 5th of September, 1838. We're in Hull. Oh.

And Captain John Humble is about to set sail for Dundee on a steamer by the name of Forfarshire. Forfarshire. I don't know how to say it. Basically, it's the old name for Angus. It's Forfarshire. Is it Forfarshire? To me, it sounds like you've strove your toe and you're trying not to swear. Forfarshire.

Forfarshire. His previous vessel was called the Ayazmanatnax. Attempting to speak Klingon after a few pints. His previous vessel was actually called the Neptune, which might suggest that this is a guy who could not sink a ship, like a master of the seas. Hold on to that expectation, James. There were 60 souls aboard a ship,

and nobody ever says things like that if the journey ends up well. Among those were a Mrs. Dawson, who was a passenger in steerage. Most of them were not passengers, but she was. And according to Chambers' Miscellany, 1847, even before the vessel left Hull, so strong was her impression from indications on board that all was not right, that if her husband, who was a glassman, had come down to the packet in time, she would have returned with him on shore.

There was a bad vibe about this vessel. It was only two years old. Oh, right. No, it's a boat, not a child. It's a steamer, but the boiler was already leaking when they left Hull. Now, I'm not an engineer, but they aren't supposed to do that. No. And it was starting small fires.

We all enjoy a fire, but on a boat, to do that. No. No. And it was starting small fires. We all enjoy a fire. Yeah. But on a boat, often not ideal. No. Well, you'd think on a boat, the water would put it out. If you're on a boat with a leak, I suppose. Yeah. You want a certain amount of fire.

The fire to be on the inside of the engine in general, I think, rather than sort of spreading out. Contained, yeah. Okay, all right, all right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you win. So a lot of pushback on whether fires are bad, but okay. The engine man, Alan Stewart, said it was fine, according to records. See? That man does not survive this story.

I think it's really unfair that we trust this obviously Scottish engineer. That's fine. It's unfair, but it's only a couple of wee fires, we'll be fine. Of course he said that bearing in mind he did not relay the story of what happened did he say it's fine the water will put it out as in which i think she will only be unfair for long so they were on their way up to that it's an accurate scottish accent um if you're wondering americans um or scottish people it's less accurate than the visual that's yeah my face is more's less accurate than the visual.

Yeah, my face is more Scottish than the accent. So they sailed up the east coast of England and they headed through the fairway. All the way up? Not that far, no. They went between the mainland and the Farn Islands, which are just a short way south of Lindisfarne. Oh, yeah. Now, I hoped...

On reading this, I was thinking, oh, so Farn must mean island. So it's like the Island Islands and Lindisfarne. Oh, yeah. Now, I hoped, on reading this, I was thinking, oh, so Farn must mean island. So it's like the Island Islands and Lindisfarne. But that is not how it works. I think Farn might mean pilgrim. Oh. Because, you know, the, you know, St. Cuthbert, all those lads, they were knocking around there

for a good long while. Hundreds and hundreds of years. For thousands and hundreds of thousands of years. I have another theory about why they're called the Farn Islands, which is that like Vikings from Sweden came over and crashed into them. And we're like, Farn! Farn! Yeah, that is a very thing.

But also in Sweden, they also have some islands. Like there's an island called Ur. Ur? Very surprising island. Yeah. Ur? That's how you pronounce the O with the two dots above it. Ur.

No, sorry. Ur. i've made it too long and that is one of the swedish words for islands as well so they do have an island island that's cool i think they also call iceland island as well oh so is iceland a typo i thought you spoke a little bit of swedish so i thought you'd be able to help me i know it from scandinavs uh where they are swearing but I think it just literally means devil yeah yeah it kind of does which is so Victorian

to be like devil take these terrorists so this journey's going fine the Farn Islands are several small islands not far off the coast

but there's a narrow gap that you can easily pass through if there's for instance not a storm brewing I don't like how this is heading a storm was brewing

they got about as far as Berwick-upon-Tweed and the engines not a storm brewing. I don't like how this is heading. A storm was brewing. They got about as far as Berwick-upon-Tweed and the engines packed up. That was when Alan Stewart reported that it was in fact not fine and that the engines didn't work. Hey, but at least they were near Berwick-upon-Tweed where they could get some of the Berwick cockles that they sell around there.

Yeah, Berwick-upon-Tweed's quite nice. Yeah, it is, yeah. If you're going from London to Edinburgh for the fringe, going through Durham's lovely and going through Berwick-upon-Tweed, there's some beautiful coastlines there. Yeah, yeah. Berwick-upon-Tweed's quite nice. Yeah, it is, yeah. If you're going from London to Edinburgh for the fringe, that's all right. Going through Durham's lovely and going through Berwick-upon-Tweed, there's some beautiful coastlines there. Yeah.

Like, honestly, if I'm about to, like, you know, if I'm on a ship that's about to break down, I'd much rather it break down in Berwick-upon-Tweed than Wall's End, for example.

Well, absolutely. But on the other hand, with Berwick-upon-Tweed, there's the ambiguity of, am I going to drown in Scotland or England? It's why whenever I get on an aeroplane

and I go to my seat and somebody's there with their partner and they go, oh, we didn't get put together, but we'd like to sit together. Do you mind swapping seats? I go, I'd rather not because if we crash, they might think you're my body. And they always move. It's great. Both of them. Yeah, both of them. They go and try and find somewhere else to sit entirely. It's always great. Sometimes on a different aer yeah so things are going really really badly on the full fire show the engines have given out and a storm is raging and they're worried they're about to be

blown into the rocks so what they do is turn about unfurling the sails the wind is coming down from the north and they sail back in the direction they just came trying to steer away from the rocks cool it seems like a reasonable thing to do the idea is to sail back through the fairway but the helm loses control of the vessel and the forefarsher founders on the far island because he was reversing did he have his arm over the seat like a dad can all 60 people get their heads down please all 60 souls get your heads down why are you calling us souls? Oh, no reason. No reason.

Is everyone in their allocated seats? No reason. Knowing people manage to hop into a boat and get away after it's hit the rocks. But not long afterwards, a great wave comes along. It's dashed to pieces of the rocks, and the entire ship breaks in two. Oh. The back end of the ship.

I'm sure there's a nautical name for it. I don't know what that is. Stern. The Stern. And most of the rest of the ship is swept away by a current called the Pifa Gut. That's a very difficult word to Google. Is it a typo in the 19th century text I read? Maybe.

I don't know how to describe it. 43 people drowned. Oh. I don't know how to describe it. 43 people drowned. Oh. But nine survivors were left clinging to the fore part of the boat on the rocks of the Farn Islands. And the next morning, the inhabitants of Longstone Lighthouse, a mile away at the outermost point

of the Farn Islands, spotted the survivors of the wreck. The inhabitants of Longstone Lighthouse were Grace Darling and her dad. Oh. What are they going to do, James? The storm's still raging. Live tweet it. But nine people are out there crying for help. According to the stories, you could hear their cries,

which is an obvious lie because a storm was happening, and it was a mile away. They could see them through a telescope. What would you do, James? I'd sort of look around at my neighbours and hope they would do something, probably for a bit. You're on the fine islands here. There's nobody else there.

These are very small islands. There's nobody around. It's just Grace Darling and Daddy Darling. Yeah, what would you do? I would hope that you would deal with it. Yes. By asking the question first, you've put the onus on me to do something about these floundered people? Foundered. Floundering is like... When you're in the question first you've put the um onus on me to do do something about these floundered people

found founded floundering is like when you're in the water yeah foundering is crashed into rocks right bethany would you like to tell us what grace darling did i would do exactly what what grace did which is uh she went and she got a boat and she rode out in the storm and she rescued a woman in the mid-19th century? Yeah, she went and put on some... On a boat? Put on some oil skins. She jumped in the boat and she rode.

She rode as far as her little arms would take her. During a storm? In a storm. At seven o'clock in the morning, before she'd even had her breakfast. I haven't made a cup of tea at that time. Two hours after she'd noticed. Because that's my favourite part of the story.

And I don't know if this is the correct time to go and bring this up, but apparently, because the boat hit the rocks at like 4.45 in the morning and she heard a loud crash and had a look out the window and saw the flames and went, oh, flames. Let's go and get the telescope. Got the telescope, had a look and went, oh yeah, there's definitely flames. Is there anyone still around? I can't see.

Give it a couple of hours until the sun comes up and then left it. So she went back to bed. So I was right. Basically, she did exactly what you did. I went, oh yeah, go back to bed. And then when the light came up, she went, oh no, now there are people out there.

We should probably go and get them. So normally her brothers would have been present and would have manned a rescue boat, but they weren't there. Where were they? I don't know. In bed.

They were possibly off at some lighthouse maintenance convention. How to make sure that your light stays on throughout the night. It's probably like a team building weekend. Yeah. To make sure that your lights on overnight to stop people from crashing into rocks a mile away from your lighthouse. But they specifically designed to stop that from happening. I don't know.

To be fair, they were nearer to the other lighthouse on the Farne Islands. There's two lighthouses on the Farne Islands. That sounds confusing. Actually, I don't know why the people at the inner Farne lighthouse didn't do anything about it. I'm probably going to find out that it wasn't built then, but still don't know. So she and her dad hopped in a boat.

She rode a tiny little, I think they call it a skiff, and he hopped onto the rocks to bring people back to safety. And at this point, every account, every sort of sober 19th century account of it starts using exclamation marks because they're so absolutely just brimming with amazement that a woman could do something like this here's what chambers is miscellanly has to say to have braved the perils of that terrible passage then would have done the highest honor to the well-tried nerves of even the stoutest of the male sex but what shall be said of the errand of mercy being undertaken and accomplished mainly through the strength of a female heart and arm although i think she used both arms if she did it one armed one arm and one mainly through the strength of a female heart and arm. Although I think she used both arms. If she did it one-armed.

One arm and one heart on the other one. That's showboating. It's literally showboating. She's just texting with the other one, being like, yeah, yeah, there's nine of them. Yeah, yeah. No, I thought it was just a fire, but there's nine of them in the end. 51 souls gone so far.

Through the dim mist, with the aid of of the glass the figures of the sufferers were seen clinging to the wreck but who could dare to tempt the raging abyss that intervened in the hope of suckering them mr darling it is said shrank from the attempt not so his daughter at her solicitation the boat was launched with the assistance of her mother and father and daughter entered it each taking an oar it's worthy of being noted that grace never had occasion to assist in the boat previous to the wreck of the forefarsher, others of the family

being always at hand. Now that bit about her dad not wanting to do it, I think is the beginning of the myth of Grace Darling being created because this story,

as soon as this happened, I mean, they saved nine people's lives. Yeah. So that's a huge deal. But it immediately becomes like, she's like Princess Diana and Captain Tom combined. Yeah.

For the mid-19th century mind. Yeah. They are in love with her. And every retelling of the story makes her more heroic. And her dad, needlessly cowardly, I think. She had an English heart. Grace had an English heart. The raging sea she braved.

Help, help him and murder Something about the crew So there's a song. I've just discovered that my software can do auto-tune, so we should be fine with all of that. Wicked. Doubt you'll need it. It's just going to sound like Cher was singing.

It's in his skiff. Do you believe in life after sea accidents? Two hours after sea accidents. Yes, I do, Grace. Only for 20% of the people. I mean, the numbers aren't great. But by the time she got involved, the survival rate is pretty decent

once Darling's on the case. Yeah, absolutely. After a two-hour nap. GWN Reynolds wrote The Heroine of the Fern Islands, which doesn't have the correct name for the islands, for one thing,

because they're the Farn Islands, but he calls them the Fern Islands. He wrote that in 1839, and this book absolutely blows my mind. It's called The Heroine of the Fern Islands. Grace Darling doesn't appear until about chapter nine. It's a massive sort of romance. Chapter one begins in London,

where the Honourable Mr. Slapman Twill is finishing his dinner we're quickly introduced to lord mizzle kitty mr and mrs moses and captain smashall no who is a policeman wonderful and at this point you realize that he's just making it up these are just like characters from the music hall he's just creating a narrative around it he's red dickens and just gone yeah exactly right His names are on the nose, but pfft. Other characters include

Lord Bilker Mall, Mr Snugs, Mr Silly Man, yeah, which is pushing it, Mr Sneaks, Mr Twollop, Mr Jacob Snatch,

Mr and Mrs Holy Boy, Harlequin Dick and Limping Joe. Harlequin Dick and Limping Joe are two separate people rather than two stages of the same condition

progressing. So the book is complete nonsense but this is the very popular version of the story that gets out in which she's a pure-hearted hero and she died of consumption four years after this happened so she's sort of the perfect rock and roll way to go as well yeah exactly one big she's a rock star yeah yeah she's like unfortunately a couple of months short of her 27th birthday so it doesn't quite get into the 27 club but yeah yeah full-on consumption drinking brandies opium and it's perfect for the fans because she never has to change she never has to be a real person she gets to become the icon of a perfect sort of pure noble-hearted english maid. What is consumption?

Tuberculosis. Yeah, tuberculosis. Oh, not drinking too much or something. No, no, no. No, but the... No, no. Yeah, basically the treatment for it at the time was to drink whiskey or brandy. Consuming things.

And opium. Those were the two things. The treatment for it at the time was to die. Yeah, kind of. It was to try and just take the edge off it. Like Doc Holliday famously had it and drank like a quart of whiskey a day. Oh, wow.

Lie in bed drinking brandy and smoking opium. If they found that you had TB, they put you on a chaise longue and then slid you into a Russian novel. Yeah, kind of. And your job would be to sit in the corner being sarcastic. Yeah, kind of. While everyone else enjoyed themselves.

But she also spent the rest of her life after this desperately trying not to be famous anymore, which I really relate to. I was going to say, you've had some experience with fandom, haven't you? Oh yeah, just a little bit. Yeah, it's that whole thing of like, because I've spent 20 years

becoming a really good stand-up comic. Which is how long it takes, listener. Some people think it takes less than that. It doesn't. Yeah. And I'm sort of about 15 years in, I started getting some telly and I had like a bunch of things that could have, if I'd had a slightly better personality

and more ability to be able to go and take full advantage of it, it could have gone and led on to becoming incredibly famous. And part of that was a choice, and part of that was someone else's choice. But yeah, I've been close enough to it to go, oh, that's not for me. But like the merch for this person, James, artists painted her, you could buy cups. It really was like, you know, Princess Di level of tat. Wow. There was a song, a version of which you heard me, I don't want to use the word sing. The good thing is normally when I sing, James talks over me,

but now we're recording remotely. That won't ruin my track, so I can still use it in the edit. There's nothing you can do. You can still release it. Grace had an English heart. Just to be safe. What nationally heart did her dad have then? A cowardly Welsh heart, maybe. Or a snivelling French heart.

Yeah, almost certainly. There was a panorama. Robert Watson made a moving panorama of it, and I didn't know what this was. It's like a really, really long painting on rolls, a bit like credits for an old TV show. And so people would sit and watch the whole story, like the Bayeux Tapestry sort of rolled past them with sound effects.

So it was shown four times a day in London's Egyptian Hall, which is a building that burned down, but was an amazing Egyptian-esque building for exhibitions and magic shows. Wow. I'd love to look at that. I'd love to go and sit and watch the panorama and just play the music to some mothers do have them. So this is how Grace Darling and Her Times by Constance Smedley described the panorama.

The curtain rose upon a representation of the sea in motion, accompanied by the pattering of hail and rain. The man of war and a frigate with all its sails set appeared, and all the incidents of the awful terrors of a storm at sea were graphically depicted. A merchant vessel came into view, her foremast shattered by the lightning, while those on board fired guns. I don't know why they would do that. They're trying to shoot the ray.

They tried to shoot the... They were trying to shoot the fire back into the engine. I mean, that's just science. I suppose if you got it just right, you could maybe plug the hole up with a bullet if it stopped just at the right... Just hoping you can shoot some more lightning out in the sky.

If it hits the bullet on its way up, that's going to stop it from striking the ship. Yeah, it's metal, so it would attract the lightning and you'd just... Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good science, Bethany, actually.

This is going to blow your mind, James. Queen Victoria gave it 50 quid. Oh! James. Queen Victoria gave it 50 quid. Oh! Yep, Queen Victoria gave it 50 quid. And I like to imagine in a handshake. Yeah. Oh, yeah, like when you've done a gig for someone and they look over their shoulder and they go,

yeah, well done, yeah. I remember my dad's mate, Dosh, who had a pub, I think, in Gorton. Yeah. We had to sit outside the pub in the car while my dad went in. Literally everything I know about you makes this story sound bizarre,

that your dad has a mate called Dosh. My dad's from Gorton in Manchester. I may be a pre-Raphaelite princeling in an ivory tower, but other people have suffered and I've heard about it. And Dosh, he sort of shook hands with us and he gave me a fiver which in the 90s is that's like being given 50 quid by queen victoria

that's not bad oh that's a decent yeah how many people had you saved hardly any few very very few and if you had it done someone called dosh in a pub in gorton is very unlikely to slip you a fiver for it. It's usually quite the opposite. Was he called Dosh because that was his thing, giving out money? I don't know, but yeah, I've always remembered that his nickname was Dosh because I got a fiver out of him, which is also why Queen Victoria's nickname was Dosh.

Flash Vicky. Well, it was also that thing of like, both her and Grace Darling were probably on quite a lot of drugs at that point yep because queen victoria super into cannabis she had like yeah she took it for menstrual cramps but she was like the first sort of cbd influencer but yeah but she was also like in terms of that like she was the first person uh in the uk to have anesthesia for childbirth um which up until that point all the newspapers debunked as uh yankee quackery and the catholic church was furious

about it going no obviously the queen queen victoria wasn't a catholic but it's yeah because kids are supposed to be brought forth in pain yeah yeah because that's part of it yeah that's part of the deal part of the deal you can't go getting knocked out and coming around afterwards having felt nothing kind of your queen victoria i think that's probably one of those things i learned a long time ago that's almost certainly going to be debunked when this comes out i can't believe queen victoria was a stoner yeah on youtube just watching jordan peterson videos going yeah actually that's a really good point yeah she was i think she was more the joe rogan of her day she sat there she's doing a little podcast she goes next person grace darling so tell me grace at the end of it she uh bunged

her 50 quid um i don't know anything about anything uh queen victoria's patreon she's gonna be getting so much more than that that's outrageous she's got all the numbers published she's getting at least 12 grand a month so that's so i'm imagining her and grace like nipping to the bogs and doing fat lines of k they've done they've done it with 50s because you would if you're the queen obviously and then she's and quiver towards like keep it yeah keep it i've got loads more i've literally got a license to print it mate yeah Let's have a big old bifter. Canonically, I reckon that's absolutely what happened. Yeah. Is it treason or slander?

You can't slander the dead. So it's treason. It's treason. Yes, it's treason. On the subject of lying about dead people. Oh, go on. Oh, yeah, go on. I was going to say friend of the podcast,

enemy of the podcast, Derek Okora appears next. So there's a lot of lighthouses in this area. So we've got Huff Hill Lighthouse, Guile Point Lighthouse, Inner Farn Lighthouse, and Longstone Lighthouse, which is where

Grace Darling lived. Those are all, because there's so many islands, these are all within a couple of miles of each other, or to use the nautical term, couple of miles of each other. Don't know what nautical...

Nauts? Couple of knots of each other? Oh, but they're probably within a nautical mile of each other, because nautical term, a couple of miles of each other. I don't know what nautical... Knots? A couple of knots of each other? Oh, well, they're probably within a nautical mile of each other because nautical miles are huge comparatively. Are they? Are they? Why? Because they keep washing away. Because the rulers float, yeah. Yeah, it's really difficult to keep the markers in place.

Have you tried to use a trundle wheel on the sea, James? You've been there for weeks. He's still trundling this. I can still see the bubbles where he's trundling. But James had a trundle wheel. The English channel he plumbed. Anyway, I think I'm getting more in tune. You are.

How's the show going on? You've warmed up. I've got a bit of a cold. I think I could probably sing this under normal circumstances. Have you been having brandy and opium for your consumption? I am. I'm knocking it back.

I'm like Queen Victoria here. I'm off my head. Excuse my French. So, Derek Okura. So there's a little bit south of here, there's Souter Lighthouse on Lizard Point, South Shields. You've got a Lizard Point up there as well.

Yes. It's not called lizard lighthouse because of course there is a lizard lighthouse on lizard point dan saff lizard lighthouse at lizard point yeah so the name had already been taken it's like equity it's gonna have been lizard e lighthouse yeah so derrick akura making his tv show back in the early 2000s and he got in contact with Grace Darling's niece. Ooh. Is that you? No.

It's a TV credit. I'd take it. Yeah, I would. I haven't been on Doctor Who, so. I'd take it, but it would also be, I'd be very much like Barry Dodds insofar as after any interaction with Derek Okora, it would lead to Derek Okora never wanting to have anything to do with me again. I think Barry Dodds, I certainly know he was blocked by almost everyone else on Most Haunted,

and I know they're going to, I think he was thrown out. I think he's banned from, well, certainly now that Derek Okora is dead, there's no problem with that. But I think for a long while, Barry Dodds was actually banned from going and seeing Derek Okora again performing. This is the co-host of the Parapod and the Parapod movie Out Now, I suppose we should say. It's very good. I saw it the other day.

Yeah, Out Now. It's good. Yeah, yeah. Really enjoyed it. But yes, I am not Derek Okora's niece. No, I'm not. I'm not Grace Darling's niece.

Grace Darling's niece was Isabella Darling who, to be fair, did live in Souter Lighthouse because you know that family. They just love lighthouses. Oh, we're very... I've always wanted a lighthouse,

and I never understood why until I discovered the connection. So Derek Okura allegedly got in contact with Isabella Darling, and this is going to shock the pantaloons off you, James, a man called John. Oh, John. The Northern Echo said,

last night, Barbara Matheson, house manager at the lighthouse, said, I think most people were fairly impressed, especially about the man called John. We knew that was a fact because his son had been in and told us all about him. He had the easiest gig in the world, Derek Okora. He got in contact with a ghost named John and everyone was like, how does he do it?

It's amazing, how does he do that? How did he know he was called John? How did he know that someone called John had once lived in a hundred mile radius of here? Sorry to bring Barry Dodds back into this, but Barry and I and a couple of other people went ghost hunting to East Drive in Pontefract, which is...

The famous, currently most haunted house. Oh, of course. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, Poltergeist from the 70s, not at all. I think you can see where I'm about to sit on this entire thing. But Barry took us there because he very, very much believes in this sort of stuff.

And we parked up and one of my friends parked up out. A whole bunch of us had parked up and gone in and we were like, oh, what's going to be like? And I think I ruined it by just being cheerful for the entire evening, which just completely killed the mood. So no one was freaked out by anything ordinary happening in a council house in Pontefract. Ooh! Anyway, right, so there's a woman who lives a couple of doors down who's a medium, only she's not one of these mediums

who's learnt how to cold read and is aware that she's a con artist. Derek Okura. Yeah, she's one of these mediums who's accidentally learnt that they can cold read and mistaken it for having genuine psychic powers. She came in and saw me

and my girlfriend and one of the things that she asked was whether either of us had a husband. We are both visibly homosexual. Yeah, you've got the aura. I mean, that's just straightforward.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. 100%. But on top of that, she came in and she went, right, have any of you got... He's come in. he's telling me, he's telling me that there's, right, I'm getting a voice from the other side. Do any of you know a man called Dave or David? And we all just went, no.

Statistically, this was already unlikely. And she went, actually, it might not be. It might be John. Any of you know a John? No. Ian? And Barry went,ry went yeah yeah i know an ian all right okay and then she ended up talking and spoke to one of my friends who was there who i won't name was it dave could have been and then she went and said to one of my mates do you work with dogs and she was like yeah yeah i do oh my god like how did you say yeah no it's just he's saying something. I can't even remember what it was.

But later on, I went off into town to go and get us a takeaway because we'd ordered a takeaway. I was like, I'll go and get it. You stay here and terrify the f*** out of each other and I'll come back and then I'll ruin your evening. When I got back from the takeaway, all the way up, I was going, that was like all of the stuff that she asked, any of the stuff that she did manage to intuit.

Like I could see exactly how she'd done it, but it was just the one thing about my friend working with dogs. i was like i honestly don't know how she got to that and as i came back and parked up i realized that my mate had gone and parked her works van outside this woman's kitchen right in front of where she would have been doing her washing up with a big picture of her on the side of it with two dogs it's wonderful. Yeah. So if that isn't proof enough of the supernatural, James, I've got one.

Because I know you'll have noticed this is mostly a true story with no ghosts in it. The Fine Islands. Demons used to live there. The end. Obviously demons used to live there. Tiny little demons. Supposedly, I can't source this, the model for the door knocker at Durham Cathedral.

Oh, really? Is it boggles and boggarts all up that way? I think these are straightforward demons because they were driven out by St Cuthbert. Right, okay. I don't know why I said that so weirdly because one of the versions of it puts an extra H in before the T and I didn't know how to pronounce Cuthbert.

Cuthbert. St Cuthbert. St Cuth H Bert. Tooth? Bert. Yeah. St Cuthbert drove out the demons that used to live on the Farn Islands, and they went around clad in black cowls.

They were very small, and they rode goats, and they had little lances, and they were very warlike, and they would attack people. And the only way to keep them back was either by assigning the cross or by erecting a sort of fence made up of crosses to keep them back. But St. Cuthbert came in, and he just sainted the lot of them. Yeah. They had to go and live on sainted the lot of them. Yeah. Now they go and live on a slightly different island, slightly further away. So that, James,

is the legend of Grace Darling. Well, that is... Yeah. That is a legendary tale. Yes. I mean, it happened. And she's a legend. She instantly became a national hero. Pretty legendary. That is pretty cool. I'm ready to score you. You ready to score it?

Yeah. You ready to be scored? It's out of five, isn't it? There's no half points in this game. Right, okay. No, no, we don't do half points. We're not chortle. Do it out of ten.

Ridiculous. Just do it out of ten. Yeah. So the first category that Bethany and I have for you, James, is names. All right. Need I reintroduce you to Mr. Silly Man? Captain Smashingy. Captain Smashingy, yeah. Limping Joe. Har you to Mr. Silly Man? Captain Smashing In. Captain Smashing, yeah.

Limping Joe. Harlequin Dick. Harlequin Dick. Milka Mall. That's just, he just hit the keys on the typewriter. That's kind of the way that my Swedish mother-in-law pronounces guacamole, because she's only ever seen it written down. Guacamole?

I think it's not fair. I was going to say, I don't think it's fair that it's guacamole, but then it's chipotle, but it's not chipotle, is it? It's not chipotle. And that is following the same rule. Yes. So I'm in the wrong on this one. Yes, you are.

For once. You are. So names, obviously five. Five out of five for names there. Yeah. Her name was Grace Darling. You couldn't have asked for a better name for the goody in the story. Yeah.

That is... Grace Darling. The nicest name. It is. What was the boat called? The Forefarsher. The boat was called the... Forefarsher.

Forefarsher. Forefarsher, who's left the Lego out? It's an ancient Klingon curse. Well, it's got to be a five. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Mainly for the novelisation just cramming in silly names. Mr. D*** and all of those things.

Yes, Mr. D*** came aboard the ship. We're going to have to bleep that. And I just love people imagining what it was you said. Are we going to bleep all of it or just half? Just everything that I said. Splurt isn't a swear. You can say splurt. Yeah, if anything, the bleep is going to make it even ruder. Just everything that I said. Splurt isn't a swear. You can say splurt.

Yeah, if anything, the bleep is going to make it even ruder. That's the problem with the bleep. The bleep is always getting us like that. That's a five out of five for names. Thank you, James. No more than we deserved. Next category, I've made an effort, supernatural. I don't think you did make an effort.

An island full of demons, James. I'm sorry. P.S. There's an island full of demons that ride around on goats. Yeah. It's this island, the island they live on, full of demons. Yeah, their island was full of demons. It used to be full of demons.

It was full of demons. That's the demons that went and lured them onto the rocks. Yes. Little sexy demons. Yeah, little northeast. Do they sing like you, Alistair? Sirens, yeah. Yeah, little Geordie sirens like

that'd be why that they crashed on the other island yeah the demons if you can imagine the cast of of geordie shaw just sat there on goats on the edge of this on goats on the edge of the island going away man come over here and the cast of geordie shaw are repelled by the sign of the cross so it works they are i mean that's the only bit of vaguely spookiness. And they're not very scary because... Derek Okora got in contact with her niece. Derek Okora does not count as supernatural. Lighthouses are supernatural anyway.

Yeah, what's spookier than a lighthouse? People who live in lighthouses. Yeah. Famous saying. It's a famous saying. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, how did she know that there were people

on the uh on the rocks oh yeah it's over a mile away over a mile away in a storm and a big ship crashed into the rocks and it's literally a job to know about such things how on earth could she be expected to know explain that james yeah you can't science oh hang on spooky supernatural the problem is we're both skeptics and we're really undermining our own argument that any of this is natural doing it in a sarcastic tone of voice yeah we've really hoist ourselves with our own petard here i hate it when that happens says petard don't bring your petard to a debate yeah i don't know i don't to a debate. I don't know why I do. I don't know why I do now.

Stop bringing your petard to a knife fight. I mean, to be fair, it'd be great in a knife fight, a petard. You wouldn't have to get plugs to them. You just light it, throw it at them and run off. Genuine villainy in your laugh there. I love that. What's your score for supernatural james oh come on even you don't even buy it i like that they're little like the fox in labyrinth

riding around on goats i don't think there's even goats on this island now but still yeah there aren't even goats like goats aren't even like indigenous and also lizards how are you gonna get lizards that far north three and. And I'll stop pestering you. Is the Lancashire street market haggling working on you there, James? You get one for your miniature island demons and one for the psychic that was supernaturally bad at guessing men's names. All right. Two. Fair enough.

Next category, lighthouses. Oh, well. There were five of them. There were five lighthouses. Oh, well. There were five of them. There were five lighthouses. Because I deliberately included five lighthouses in the story, James. Yeah? Because I've played this game before. There were five lighthouses in the area.

There's five lighthouses. Way down in there. Now, there's even more than five. We've got Huff Hill. We've got Guile Point. We've got Inner Farn Lighthouse, Longstone Lighthouse, and Souter Lighthouse. On Lizard Point. Souter.

That's five lighthouses. It's five out of five for lighthouses. Final category, Heroin. Heroin. Because we've got Grace Darnham, the

great heroine. She is a great heroine. Queen Victoria. Off her, not on heroine. On heroine. Whatever she could

get a hold of. And Grace probably. And Grace. Yeah, because obviously, you know, opium, I mean, heroin wasn't invented by Bayer

until much later than that, but same principle. Yeah, it's all basically the, opium, I mean, heroin wasn't invented by Bayer until much later than that. But same principle. Yeah, it's all basically the same. The basic ingredients, yeah, yeah. We've got our own heroin in Beth. An actual blood relative. Yeah. Blood James.

Our very own heroin. Blood. In Doctor Who, did you play a heroin? No, yeah, yeah, I did, yeah, yeah, I did. Were you a buddy? Yeah, definitely a good ES. I gave my life to save someone else. So noble.

That's another heroine. Because I had an English card. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I'm not calling myself a heroine, but that's for other people. Like Russell T. Davies, for example. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or any of those.

Any of those people who helped me to achieve some of the firsts that I've done to make history. I'm just a really difficult pub quiz question. That's the problem. Well, I think it would be. Bearing in mind, if it's any less than five, I'm going to be personally insulted. Yeah. It's not just you.

It's also your family. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm trying to say they're not complete heroines. Yeah. Apart from the other person that's also related to her, who is famously cowardly. The father in this tale.

That bit isn't true, though. Presumably you're as related to him as you are to her. Her sister Thomasina wrote a book explaining the truth, and then what happened was nobody bought it because it was really boring. How many silly names did she have in the first chapter? Absolutely none. None. Apart from Thomasina, which is ridiculous.

Frankly, I should have mentioned it earlier, but we were already absolutely replete with names, so I didn't bother. Okay. Well, yes. Yes, it is a five. Yay! Of course, it's a full house for her to win.

Thank you. We did. It's a really good score. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. It's not a competition. Isn't it? No. Why do we have a scoring section?

Why do we score? I don't know. No one knows. Bethany. Yes. Assuming that a few people who are listening to this are not familiar with your back catalogue and Twitch output and everything else,

where can people find you? Well, every day at 2pm I do a show called A Brew and a Chat over on Twitch, which you can find by searching for bethany black if you put bethany black in it will show you who i am i'm also i'm on twitter far more than i should be probably uh yeah all of these all of these places all the usual socials and if you search for my name i'm usually the first one that pops up and i'm the first one that pops up in google so So, you know, in your face, the comic book character with the same name

and the other actor who went and managed to steal my name from Spotlight, the actor's online thing. Bethany E. Black. Wow. A brew and a chat, by the way, Americans. A brew there is a cup of tea. This is not a sort of witchy cauldron situation. Yeah, nor is it like alcohol

because I do have a lot of americans who tune in in spite of the fact that it's on incredibly early in the morning for some of them i have i have viewers as far afield as sydney in one direction and anchorage alaska in the other uh who who regularly pop in you have the person from anchorage alaska listening to your show i have i have the one trans person in Anchorage, Alaska, who's gone, oh, brilliant. Finally, some representation. I was a series baddie

in No Offence, which is now currently on Disney Plus in the UK. Oh, didn't mention that during the heroin section, but okay. Your Twitter handle, I'm trying to remember,

I think it's Bethany Black, isn't it? Bethany Black, yeah, but because if you just type in Bethany Black, it finds me. There isn't anyone yeah, but because if you just type in Bethany Black, it finds me. There isn't anyone pretending to be me. I've scared them all off.

You've been listening to Lawmen with me, Alistair Beckett-King. And me, James Shakeshaft. With our guest, Bethany Black. Yes, and there is all sorts of extras from this episode on the Patreon and extra episodes with loads of our guests, including your Robin Inces, your Forrest Burgesses, your members of the Delightful Sausages,

your Miranda Merricks. Yeah. Oh, your Stuart Goldsmiths. Oh, and some ill-fated solo episodes of Just Us, e.g. Ride Along With The Law Boys. That's patreon.com forward slash lawmenpod. That's right. All right, the credits to music is finished, James.

It's time for corrections. I think this is only because we're ill that we have to do this. Yeah, we were quite ill there. I missed an opportunity for an excellent joke again. What? I know this keeps happening. If only there was a French phrase to encapsulate it, I'll probably remember that later.

Very good. Yeah. When we're talking about lighthouses and we sort of you can hear us casting around for a good joke but i think it just peters out we i say people in lighthouses shouldn't yeah and then in the edit it came to me people in lighthouses shouldn't throw shade very good oh because it's like the other phrase it's very similar afterwards you think oh no yeah that does work actually that is the last thing you would want a lighthouse to do textbook example of my painted tid clever dick comedy that's a direct

quote from a review a reviewer on the internet i'm now surrounded by the children they've come for me the children have just silently approached you like ghosts. They've come for me. Hello, boys. They've come for you. We're going to have pizza, all right? Here's a ham. And here's the cheese.

Okay, they're making an imaginary pizza. I better make them some real pizza. Right, you better go on. Oh, sorry. I need one thing from you before you go. Oh, yes. It's five out of five for lighthouses. All right.

Or something like that. Okay, boys, can you be quiet for silent? Count to five in your heads and then you can make a noise, okay? Ah, it's five out of five for lighthouses. I think we got that. That sounds like out loud counting. Count in your head, you silly sussy. If I can hear it

it's not in anyone's head five out of five for you started counting again didn't you I think we've got it yeah I'll send it now

five out of five for lighthouses alright what a quality pick up