Loremen Podcast - S4 Ep11: Loremen S4 Ep11 - The Cerne Abbas Giant

Episode Date: August 18, 2022

A VERY SPECIAL GUEST HOST THIS WEEK Who you might recognise.... Yeah you know him, off YouTube and Mock the Week and podcasts and what nots. And we talk all about the big lad in Dorset... (of course you would - you bloody love the place) The Cerne Abbas Giant! Loreboys nether say die! Check the sweet, sweet merch here... https://www.teepublic.com/stores/loremen-podcast?ref_id=24631 Support the Loremen here (and get stuff): patreon.com/loremenpod ko-fi.com/loremen @loremenpod www.twitch.tv/loremenpod www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod

Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm James Shakeshaft, and then you say, and I'm... And I'm Alistair Beckett-King. Yes! I'm back, baby! He's back, baby! I'm back and I'm a babyair Beckett-King. Yes! I'm back, baby! He's back, baby! I'm back and I'm a baby! How's it going?

It's going fine, yeah. The show, the run has sold out, James. The run has completely sold out. Put on a few extra shows. They haven't sold out yet. Come on, people. Buy tickets. What's the story, James?

Speaking of big baby men, it's the Cernabbas Giants. Okay, then, Alistair, brace yourself. That is very braced yep I'm braced that's that is

tensed brace yourself slightly less okay sorry that was really that was actually quite good for my core

funny you should mention something that's got ripped abs but my my core is that the reference

yeah okay I want to talk to you about a big lad a big lad that's a friend of mine have you heard of chris cantrell was on the show a couple of weeks ago now is that who you're talking about no a different giant um a different big lad. A different big guy. Have you heard of the Cern Abbas Giant? I have heard of the Cern Abbas Giant. He's almost as well known as Chris Cantrell down our way. Yes. You can picture him, can't you?

He's a hill figure. He's chalky white. His bits are on display. Again, I'm talking about the Cern Abbas giant here, James. He's got a big club in his hand and wide-eyed expression on his face, and he looks like he's going to cause damage. But back to the Cern Abbas giant. No, yes, that was a little joke that I was actually describing,

the Cernapus giant. So do you want to describe it in more detail? Do you want me to describe it, what I think it looks like? Yes, you could. Yes, please. So this is from memory. I don't know anything about it particularly. It's cut into the hillside. It's absolutely massive, like, I don't know, maybe 100 metres long. It's a huge guy.

He's got a club in one hand. And can we use the word pre-epic? Can we use the word pre-epic on the podcast? He is holding a club, but he is also pleased to see you. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that a chalk outline on your midriff, or are you just pleased to see me?

I thought it was done in the Victorian times as a rude joke. Is that not true? The earliest records of the Cern Abbas giant in Dorset. It goes away. I really love the place. I did. Sorry, I was swall Dorset. It goes well. I really love the place. I did. Sorry, I was swallowing some water.

I was drinking. I had to come out of the water. He almost drowned because he was trying to do a call-and-response joke. It's tragic. So there's no medieval documents mention him. Earliest reference... Oh, I'm getting this information

from a friend of the show, Westwood and Simpson, The friend of the show westwood and simpson the law of the land nice the earliest mention is a record in 1694 that there was a payment of three shillings for repairing of ye giant for repairing i'm here to repair the joint yeah it's for a bit i'll be uh uh it's gonna cost you three shilings, I'm afraid. That's quite large. You want a club done and all? Both of them. So, yeah, because what it is, it's certain areas of the country on Chalk Hills. If you cut the turf away, it reveals bright white stone,

and you can basically create a big picture using that. But it does need to be cleaned quite regularly. The historian Ronald Hutton says that it was a political cartoon to mock Cromwell because he was nicknamed the English Hercules. Hold on, hold on. That sounds like one of those nicknames you give yourself. The English Hercules. Oh, what a cruel political nickname, the English Hercules.

Who calls him that? Lord Holes, a fierce royalist. Sorry, Lord Holes. Is that a different character? Is that another nickname for Oliver Cromwell? No, this is a royalist who Ronald Hutton thinks carved it as a sort of satire of Cromwell. I see. I don't know, because the Cern Abyssinian seems like a big party guy, whereas Cromwell was a Puritan. Like, if Cromwell had just not been absolutely awful, I feel like this country would be better now.

You could say that about literally anyone. I know, but we got rid of the monarchy, and then we replaced it with a guy who banned Christmas and didn't allow dancing. And he was parading around like the English Hercules. How do you mean like the English Hercules? I don't know. I don't know. People think that this image is Menab the English Hercules. How do you mean like the English Hercules? I don't know. I don't know. People think that this image is Menabee of Hercules.

He's got the club like Hercules had. His left hand, giant stage left, is kind of outstretched and looks sort of weirdly like he's waving at the moment. But they've done some tests on the soil around there and there was some sort of cloak in his hands, which could have been Hercules'- Like a lion's pelt? Lion's pelt cloak.

Yeah. Exactly. Oh, did we win the prize for mentioning lion's pelt? Yeah. Sorry, I had to jump in there, just to let everybody know that I did know that Hercules would have had a lion's pelt. Just had to interrupt you there to seem clever.

That's fine. Sorry. Sounds a bit needy, isn't it? No. How long have we been doing... Someone in the Discord said that you seem like the more accessible, approachable of the two of us. Do you think that's true?

Am I inaccessible? I think it's more that they fear that if they were to say something bad, you might turn them into a toad or something. You've got a wizardly vibe. Yeah, but if, I mean, yes, you don't maybe, but you'd be my wizard's assistant. You'd be the one trolling the lands, knocking on doors, trying to find maidens.

I don't know. What do wizards want? What do wizards want these days? What do wizards want? What do wizards want these days? What do wizards want these days? What do wizards want? What wizards want? A Mel Gibson film. Look, as they point out in The Law of the Land,

the absence of earlier written references is not conclusive. For certain other great landmarks, including Stonehenge, are only very patchily recorded. What? No one mentions Stonehenge? No one mentions it that much. Really? Yes. Stonehenge is are only very patchily recorded. What? No one mentions Stonehenge? No one mentions it that much. Really? Yes.

Stonehenge is there and everyone's like, not bothered. Like 19 books about how you can make an ointment out of eggs and placenta to cure back pain, but nothing about Stonehenge. It is thought to be a representation of Hercules from around AD 200. Heracles. So it is Hercules after all. So it is, after all, Hercules. And the support for that date comes from resistivity soil testing.

Sorry? Resistivity soil testing. I just wanted to hear you say it again. Resistivity soil testing. I heard you. I just wanted to hear you say it again. Resistivity soil testing. I'm guessing it was invented by David Bowie. Resistivity soil testing. When he was played by Harry H. Corbett. The guy who works in the Crook and Power Station, right?

That guy. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Yes. They did this testing in the 1960s. And yeah, that's when they kind of worked out that there was something hanging from his arm. Mm, the golden age of hippie science.

It says here, and I mean, I don't need to tell you this, a silt luminosity test, as they did in Huffington, would settle the argument. Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah. From the very start, I've been saying, just do a silt luminosity test. You presume that was one of my categories.

That's why you didn't want to spoil it. You're telling me they haven't done a silt luminosity test? No, not like they've done at Huffington. Schoolboy era. Oh, fun fact. There was a drawing in 1764, and at that point, it had a navel. A belly button. A belly button.

And its little Cernarbus giant was a little smaller than it is now so it got bigger over time yes it is grown i mean that can happen but unusual in cases like this yes because it's both shown and grown normally it's you know it's a one or t'other. Do we know if he clicked the links on his spam emails about that issue? If those work, that's a game changer. I'm going to read this straight from Law of the Land. This majestic penis has inspired a good deal of ribald humour.

Do you think we could put that in? Majestic? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can say penis. We're all grown-ups, except for the children that listen. Unsurprisingly, there's a lot of fertility myths

to do with this. Do people realise how big it is? The whole thing. I don't mean just the... I mean the whole thing. Like, you can go and sit on just that part, right? Yes, and people did more

than just sit on that part. Yeah, no, that was a place, if you wanted to guarantee that you would have a baby that you would um you know do the necessary when you're sitting on the appendage of the sir nabbers giant and he turns to you and gives you this look exactly you know it's on and women and girls would walk around it, the whole thing, I think, the whole giant. Right. The whole giant person in order to, you know, increase fertility. To increase fertility. Yes.

Or to get a husband, to keep a true love or to have children. I can see why that would work, because if you see someone who's gone out to a drawing of a giant's willy, you sort of think... She's probably up for it. Yeah. I can see why people would find their way through the layers of subtext there. You don't need a silt luminosity test to work that out.

Oh, you do not. Which verse of Cher's song, It's In His Kiss, is that? Is it in a luminosity test? Oh, no, that's not the way. Is it in his perambulation around the frame of a giant's part? Oh, yes, that's the way. By the way, have you looked at the picture recently? I always forget the eyebrows.

No, it hasn't got eyebrows it's like me isn't it no it's got eyebrows and it looks surprised for obvious reasons to have been discovered yeah you're absolutely right it's got the face of a of a gray of an alien it's just been caught he looks like he sort of just opened the door to, you know, someone knocking out of hours. He looks like the guy who falls out of the building in RoboCop, but naked. You know, the guy with the really long arms. Is that RoboCop? I don't think anyone falls out of a building in RoboCop unless they've been shot by ED-209.

Do you mean the guy that falls into the toxic waste and then gets run over? There's a guy, he falls out, but it's animated. It's a there's a guy he falls out but it's animated it's a little model of him but they did it on two wide angular lens so it looks like his arms and legs are giant just his arms and legs doesn't look like this guy then there's a part missing but yes yeah but maybe it's just a wide angle lens is what i'm saying a wide angle field he's got nipples as well and they and they look exactly the same as his eyes. Yeah, and they're quite lopsided. I mean, not to body shame him, but not very symmetrical.

No, I suppose that's what happens when you're drawn on the side of a hill. One of the origin stories is that it was a giant that was killed, and then they made a chalk outline kind of as a warning. Like a crime scene. Or maybe a giant detective was investigating it. Yeah, I don't think detectives are like, I don't think it's necessary to do that part. Okay, you've started, so okay.

Don't worry about the navel. So when you say it used to have a navel, do you think the lower element has been extended to reach the navel and they used to be separate? Is that what it is? Yes. Yes, I believe so. So the very top of the hoo-ha is really the navel, the belly button. Yeah.

I see. That's an embarrassing mistake to have made. When they were cleaning it one year, they've just gone, whoops. Okay, well, we're sticking with it then. I think this very similar thing happened when they were drawing the white lines onto the pitch in my school, when they were painting those on. You just make a mistake. You're like, okay, that's the shape of the football field now.

Oh, right. Okay. Not that your football pitch had a large part. We would have loved that. That would have been a hoot. It's surrounded by a pentagon. I didn't know that. I'm looking at the pictures and you can see there's a pentagon around it.

In Janet and Colin Board's Mysterious Britain, which is from... Janet Board, Colin Board. The copy I have is signed May 1977 by its previous owner. It was originally published in 72. This edition is 77. It has an old picture of the big lad. He has a fence around him. So that pentagon is kind of marked out as a fence.

I see. So that's what I'm seeing. The pentagon's just a fence. That's probably more modern. Is that what you're saying? Maybe. Maybe like the farmer's like, I want to use as much of this field as possible.

Let's fence this guy in. I don't want any other bits growing. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And at the top of the hill, there is evidence of what looks like some sort of like fort or something from the past. But there's loads of these big lads around and about the country. There's a really good one called Gog Magog

that's on the ramparts of Wandelbury Camp near Cambridge. Wandelbury Camp? Wandelbury Camp, yes. Gog and Magog are two famous folkloric giants, right? Yes, but they may be one giant called Gog Magog. Oh, right. There's Magog, but the site is now overgrown, basically. This is a picture from the 50s or something.

So is Gog Magog like Bond's James Bond? And people thought that there were two guys, Bond and James Bond. You know what? I don't know. The good thing about our podcast is we're not afraid to admit when we don't know something yes I think which is all the time

yeah so there's there's mentioned there's the Uffington horse which can you picture that one that looks like a very stylised logo

it looks like what the BT logo became for a bit in the 90s or 2000s some people think it might be a dragon I want to do some more on this specifically

because there's the very interesting Wayland's smithy down there. Wayland Smithers? Which I think is the inspiration for the name of the Simpsons character. Ah. Because it's definitely older than the Simpsons. The Simpsons is old, sure, but Wayland Smithy has a few thousand years on it. On the subject of the Simpsons,

did they do a giant Homer Simpson holding a donut next to it? What, on Waylon Smithy? No, next to the Cern Abbas giant. Oh, did they? Well, I'm Googling it and there seem to be pictures of a big Homer Simpson that has upset some pagans. Wow, looking at it on this version of the picture as well, it's quite defined. It's not just like a little bit of an outline of the chalk and it's basically flat.

They've really worn a path around the lower part. It's quite 3D. He's got a nose. Yeah, apparently in 2007, to promote the Simpsons film, they put Homer Simpson in the field next door. According to the Guardian, pagans have promised to conjure some rain magic to erase a figure of Homer Simpson.

Oh, let's see them do that in England. There's a few horses that look like horses that are a bit boring. Near me, there's a couple, actually. There's a cross on a hill near Prince's Visva, which I can only say, again,

the style of David Bowie being played by Harry H. Corbett, Prince's Visva. There's another one which is on a hill on the Chilterns, which I think from West Wycombe, you can see it and it lines up with the top of a church and it's basically they made a steeple for the church. Maybe they had like, the abbot was coming round and they wanted to

impress him that their church had a steeple or maybe they'd been given a load of money to build a steeple but they'd squandered it on trying to move the church or something or trying to grow the church with manure. And so they got the abbot to come around but only look at the church from one angle where they'd cut out a triangle on the hill

so it looked like the church had a steeple. I don't know. That's very impressive. That's quite a David Copperfield move, doing an outdoor magic trick like that. But don't look at it from any other angle, abbot. Otherwise we're rumbled. There is a big red horse, or there was a red horse,

the Red Horse of Tyso, near Bambury, because basically it's got red soil rather than chalk, which you can't see today. And it may have been cut in 1461 to commemorate the Earl of Warwick's horse. However, they looked into it and they discovered not just a horse, but there was also a human figure with a whip, a bird, maybe a goose, and another animal that was either a horse, a dragon, or a sun lion. What's a sun lion? I don't know. I forgot to look it up. And that man is 160 feet tall. So nearly as big as Sir Nabus.

He's 180. I don't know if that's taken into account his big club, the big club in his hand. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And thinking about these giants and big horses and the other sort of prehistoric things that are around, I started looking into ley lines,

or as the French call them, the lines. I started looking at it in order to do that joke. Okay. Have you got anything else to say about them, or did you bring them up just for that joke? No, I've got a couple of things to say about it. I've got this pamphlet. It's a quarterly publication called Ley Lines.

Quarterly, because Ley Line News updates that quickly, that you need four updates a year. Yeah. This one's called The Lie of the Land by Simon Morton, and it's genuinely really good. He's a writer and cartoonist, and it just looks really cool. He does this thing where he draws over old pictures and stuff, and then it's got excerpts from the book by Alfred Watkins,

who was the guy who, it turns out, in the 1920s, is when ley lines were invented, basically. Or the idea of ley lines was invented. Because there's no such thing as ley lines. Sorry, I feel like I'm maybe being overly sceptical here. Well, it depends what you think they are. Am I right in thinking he thought they were roads, like trade routes, rather than magical power axes?

Some people nowadays, sure, they think they're either checks, notes, navigation for UFOs, or a power source for UFOs. Oh, okay. But I think that says more about the people that have gotten into ley lines than what ley lines are. I think the idea that they are basically a navigation system of getting around the country, it kind of makes sense.

Because in the past, you wouldn't have had a compass. You would have had to adjudge things by the sun, and we live in England. You're going to need a little bit more help there. Yeah, fair enough. I concede. In thinking about that, it's basically made me realise that Stonehenge is, in essence, just a big motorway services.

Presumably one of the better ones, like a Norton Canes. Yeah, yeah. I haven't done much research on it, but I like the idea that it is basically old paths because we still use some of the old paths, like Roman roads are still fully in use. Yes, that's true. Yeah, I have to admit. That brings me back to another big lad, the long man of Wilmington. Have you heard of this guy?

No, I haven't. He kind of looks like he's opening his curtains. He's a figure of a man and he's holding two sticks. Yes. Yeah. He's in the Sussex Downs. Yep. I've Googled him.

I do know this guy. He's even bigger. He's like. Yep, I've Googled him. I do know this guy. He's even bigger. He's like about 50 feet bigger than Sir Nabus. The earliest recording of this is from 1710, and he's never had a face. Not even eyebrows, this one. Again, from the law of the land, friend of the show. In particular, the long man, unlike his counterpart at Sir Nabus,

probably never had a phallus. Oh. And the next paragraph starts, dating the long man, unlike his counterpart at Cern Abbas, probably never had a phallus. And the next paragraph starts, dating the long man will remain problematic, which I think... Not necessarily. It depends what you're interested in, I think. Yeah, exactly.

Come on. I have to say his stance, the way he has his arms, you know, there could be curtains, there could be two sides of a doorframe. It's got a real come up and see me sometime fine and i i mean again i don't i know you're you're everyone listening to this is is screaming this at their um at their audio devices but until the technique of optical stimulated luminescence used uffington has been used on this we can't know how old it is is. Why is Uffington so far ahead of the rest? Because of the Simpsons money.

That sweet, sweet Simpsons money. They licensed Wayland Smithers. There are some splinters of crushed pottery that may be broken Roman tiles, which, to be fair, as they point out, that could have happened at any point from Roman times to medieval times. Yeah.

I mean, I don't think it's impossible for a Roman tile to be broken today either. No, but you'd think that belongs in a museum. Oh, I simply mean, yeah, yeah. We'd be less likely to smash it to pieces than our medieval ancestors. To draw a big C and B on a hill figure. Hmm.

I think as well, they're long. Like when you look at Cern Abbas, it really looks like that was put on afterwards by some school kids. Just lucky it wasn't on his forehead. Speaking of which though, going back to the Long Man of Wilmington, there is evidence that he had some sort of horned helmet. There's a sketch from 1710 that shows some kind of headgear jutting out. And recessivity tests of the area in recent years have revealed a curled line above the head and perhaps a dotted line emanating from its tip.

We don't know. They haven't done the optical simulated luminescence tests yet. No, they haven't done it. Again, one of the origin myths is that it is there was a big giant that lived there that got killed and they drew around it of course yeah again either blow the case wide open or warn other giants do you want to know how he might have died the giant how did the giant die well some say he tripped over his feet on the hill and just fell over and broke his neck oh so when we're saying warning other giants, sort of in a mind yourself kind of a way,

rather than see how we treat giants down our way kind of warning. Trip hazard. Well, ones that have a shepherd flung his lunch of bread and cheese, which was so hard that it killed the giant. But the most popular story is there were two giants and they flung huge boulders at each other and in the end the long man was killed. Right. And as they, again, they point out in Law of the Land,

since there were in fact no boulders on either hill, the storytellers claimed that various old quarries in the area were craters left by these missiles. Hmm. Oh, there might be a treasure buried somewhere around there. And some say... I think I know what part I would dig at first. There is the body of a Roman soldier in gold armour

in a gold coffin buried underneath it. Really? Like, definitely? Have we done optical resonance imaging? Have we done silt luminance tests? The silt luminosity tests are yet to be carried out. Well, then how can we say anything with confidence? No, they're just doing the basic resistivity soil testing.

What is this, 1508? Yeah. So those are the story of the Cernobis giant in Dorset and his big friends. And his large mates. Very good. I feel bad for immediately coming down on you like a ton of bricks as soon as you mentioned ley lines.

No, well, back to ley lines, actually. See, the long man of Wilmington is at the base of one long ley line that goes all the way to something on the coast in Wales. And Alfred Watkins, the guy, have you ever heard of a Hoddyman Dodd or a Doddman? I think I've heard of a Hodmadodd. A Hodmadodd. This, again, links back into the earlier episode of Norfolk. The Norfolk sort it out. Is Norfolk dialect for a snail?

Yes, a hodmer dod was a snail. Yes, I've mentioned it on the podcast before. steal your corn and a dodd man or dud man was a traveling cloth seller who carried it on his back and that is what they thought gave the name to snail to dodd man as a snail thing there was a guy called dud man oh so like your clothes we would still say are your duds these days wouldn't we you do actually so someone who's holding all the clothes is like hold my hold my duds hold my dud so. Hold my dud. So Alfred Watkins thought that doddery and doddering came from the same root as dodman. A snail doesn't really dodder, does it? It just goes slowly.

Yeah, you rarely see a wobbly snail. But Alfred Watkins thought it was because a dodman was a prehistoric surveyor. Snails have two horns which resemble the surveyor's two rods and they would kind of dodder and dodge around when they're trying to line up their sticks.

And he thought that the long man of Wilmington was a surveyor. Those things he's holding are two sticks. I mean that's quite if he hasn't just made all of that up that's quite good. Yeah well I mean, that's quite, if he hasn't just made all of that up, that's quite good. Yeah.

Well, I mean, he made up ley lines, but he, he didn't make it all up that he did make it up yet. He made it up, but it's still quite good. Good,

good work. Yeah. Not bad. As long as it's not, you know, an aliens thing, they wouldn't, they wouldn't need rural England really,

really well mapped. So yeah, those are the stories of the Cern Abbas giant and his big old friends. And his big old friend. Yeah, big friend. Very nice. Well done, James. I enjoyed that. So you ready to

score? Yeah, I can't believe you'd ask me if I'm ready to score when you haven't even done the luminosity assessment. well but i'm all over the resistivity soil testing okay all right no i've not done my silt luminosity tests all right well while we await the results of the silt luminosity test let's just draw a big chalk outline around that giant we killed and do the scores. First up. Names? Cern Abbas.

Waylon Smithers. The Long Man of Wilmington. Hodmadod. Hodmadod. A word that I have definitely got points for in the past. So there's no reason you can't do that. Doddy Man. Ken Dodd.

Or Ken Clothes in modern English? Janet and Colin Board's Mysterious Britain. Something about them. I just get a really good vibe from Janet and Colin Board. Brother and sisters or husband and wife? They've just got an interesting dynamic. I've got the Atlas of Magical Britain

by them as well, which is actually a former book from the Durham County Library. Oh, fancy that. And that's a really good book title, The Atlas of Magical Britain. I'm trying to just skim over the introduction to see if it gives an idea of their status. It's complicated.

Sorry, are you wondering if Janet's single? Or Colin. Tell you what, if you wondering if Janet's single? Or Colin. Or Colin. Tell you what, if you're listening, Colin or Janet, and if either of you are interested, we'll meet you out on the end of the Cern Abyss Giants member. Just like old times. And of course, naming-wise, the Silt Luminosity Test.

Okay, yeah, no, the Silt Luminosity Test. Just absolutely one of the best prog rock bands. If you made it onto the Silt Luminosity Test as a band, you knew you'd broken through. Of course, if you ended up on the Sissivity Soil Testing, you were nothing. The Uffington White Horse. The Red Horse of Tyso.

Not great, but okay. Not great great i think it's a three it's a high three but a three a category the second supernatural i think it's low because i don't believe in ley lines and you do but you don't believe that ley lines are magical as if there's a that's a that's a different you don't believe in ley lines. You don't believe that ley lines are magical? As if that's a different... You don't believe there even is a thing? I don't believe they A, exist, or B, are magical. They don't have folkloric vibes to me. They're too modern. Is it 100 years old?

Yeah, what's that? 100 years, nothing. That is nothing. That's rubbish. As with Stonehenge... Stenge. Why would you write about a road why would that be a thing it's just a road it's just there it's part of the landscape in a way but fine that doesn't bode well for me later on um when you when you try the category mega

supernatural but supernatural giants right supernatural giants, right? Okay. Yeah. All right. Yes. So we've got two legends of giants that didn't exist. Oh, and then there's Gog Magog slash Gog and Magog. So potentially two there.

So we've got maybe three and a half giants. Perhaps it's sympathetic magic. What did you say? Sympathetic magic. Hello, I'm interested. Carry on. That if you, you know, trace your way around a giant,

you might have a baby. You know what? You're right. It is sympathetic magic. Yes. All right. Goodness. All right, it's a three.

Yes. Okay, great. It started off smaller and it got bigger. That's the way we roll. Category the third, the lines, as the French would have it. Ah. Doing that trick again.

Because they're made up of lines in the chalk. Yep. And we have lay lines. Yeah. And really, I think when it comes to Colin and Janet, I think we've crossed a line. A little bit, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We've gone too far. if we leave that bit in um the lines of the of the cern abbas are ever changing not just downstairs but also there are lines hidden lines underneath the surface where his his jacket that he's holding might be the lion's p. There's the long man of Wilmington's missing horn from his head. Which is not his only missing horn. And the whole red horse of Taito, yeah. The rider and the pigeon and, yeah, everyone's missing. Sunlion. The sunlion.

Which kind of sounds like I'm saying sunline. Okay. If I wasn't very well. And what does a little hodmodod leave behind itself if not a little glistening line, a silvery line? Yeah, it's gross. All right, I think it's four out of five. Is that saliva then?

Well, that is their mouths, isn't it? They walk on their feet slash mouth. So I guess it's... Yeah. Just dribble. I guess it's dribble. That's gross. Quite turned my stomach.

But I'm taking the four. It's a four. Yeah. Final category. He's a big lad, isn't he? He was a big lad. He's a big lad, but he's out of shape now. He's constantly changing shape.

Yeah. No, there's a lot of, there's several big lads in this. And that's not including the big lad that must have drawn the chalk outline from, you know, CSI CERN. Yeah. Imagine the size of the

bit of chalk used. And there's Chris Cantrell, of course, who was referenced earlier. yeah yeah yeah i'm sure he'll love us describing him as a big lad he's a top lad difficult to pin down and and he really swears a lot when you record it does swear a lot yeah he will he will disrespect your podcast the one rule chris the one thing we asked was that you respect the podcast and and kind of you implicitly as well but um i'm guessing you've not listened to the episode yet no no wait wait what did he say about

me just stuff about you being just a time traveling vampire but were there insults as well i think something like your time machine was powered by dodos Just a time-travelling vampire. But were there insults as well? I think something like your time machine was powered by dodos. Oh, that's why he was tweeting pictures of dodos at me. Yes, yes. Assuming that I had heard the episode. Right. Well, jokes on you, Chris.

I had no idea what that meant. That like was just polite. Just a politeness like yeah well um i'm a little bit angry at chris now um and i'm gonna try and channel that into scores i think it's uh i think it's a five out of five they really are big lads with one particularly big lad oh just a fun little anecdote as well before i forget talking of dead giants just in the course of reading about dead giants there's like an aside that mentions there was one giant that lost a hammer throwing contest and died of disappointment Well, I think we all learned quite a lot there, Alistair. We recorded this several weeks ago, so I have no recollection of anything that happened.

Yeah, and I'm only halfway through the edit, so I haven't worked out what we learned yet. But when you scratch the surface, there's a lot of big, weird things there. Very good. Yeah, I think that'll work. Yeah, very clever well i'm going to treat you as a guest oh yeah uh have you got anything to plug uh i think i did well i might have plugged my show at the stanford show have you got anything coming up in the new year oh yeah thank you thank you for teeing that Yes, actually. I've got a small tour of the UK in 2023.

2023? In 2023. Oh, and please listen to my new podcast, Magic Fairies in a Town. I can't remember what it's called. Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of... Whoa. Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about obscure curiosities. No. Flipping heck, James.

Hi, I'm Alastair Beckett-King, comedian and aristocratic time traveller, and I want to tell you about Fairy World and Magic Town. It's a new podcast all about folklore, but without any jokes or slanderous remarks. From me and my co-host, Neil Ion. MUSIC PLAYS