Loremen Podcast - S4 Ep3: Loremen S4 Ep3 - Lower Swell

Episode Date: June 16, 2022

Join. Us... https://www.angelcomedy.co.uk/event-detail/loremen-alasdair-beckett-king-james-shakeshaft-27th-jun-the-bill-murray-london-tickets-202206272100/ James leads you by the hand to Lower Swell, surely one of the rudest regions in the Cotswolds. If you were worried season (series) 4 had become too historically accurate - worry no more!   This episode will tickle not only your ribs, but your spine. (That's a 2 for 1 offer on torso stimulation.) Lower Swell offers ghosts that will make you go "ooh" as well as double entendres that will make you go "oo-er missus." Plus an immovable stone that... (wait for it) ...moves! Loreboys nether say die! LIVE TICKETS! https://www.angelcomedy.co.uk/event-detail/loremen-alasdair-beckett-king-james-shakeshaft-27th-jun-the-bill-murray-london-tickets-202206272100/ Check the sweet, sweet merch here... https://www.teepublic.com/stores/loremen-podcast?ref_id=24631 Support the Loremen here (and get stuff): patreon.com/loremenpod ko-fi.com/loremen @loremenpod www.twitch.tv/loremenpod www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod

Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm James Shakeshaft. And I'm Alistair Beckett-King. And Alistair, today's episode is a welcome return to form, in a way. James, is this a silly episode? It is ever so silly. My silly-o-meter is... Is it spinning round and making whooping noises?

A clown has popped out the top of it on a spring. That's how silly it's got. That is definitely very silly. So settle down, silliness fans. Settle down. Settle down. It's your own time you're wasting. And enjoy the tale of lower

swell now alistair james when we started doing season slash series four. Yeah, I remember it. All those weeks ago, too. Two weeks ago. We'd kind of done some more obscure history. I remember us talking and saying, this is quite fun, actually. Maybe we should do more stuff like this.

And I said, yes, definitely. Let's definitely do that. More obscure history, you mean? Yeah, rather than sort of myths and legends, silly names and stuff like that. And then I looked in my book. Of legends and silly names. Folklore and Mysteries of the Cotswolds by Mark Turner. And I found the story of Lower Swell. James, are you backsliding? On the banks of the River Dickler. What happened?

What happened to the James Shapeshift who presents historical stories not purely based on the funny names? I think I found a story with the rudest names. It's unbelievable how rude this one is. Let's dive right into the River Dickler. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, let's clamber out of the River Dickler.

Thank you. Onto the banks of Lower Swell, which is a village in Gloucestershire. Now, in 1931, this had a population of 360, and now it's got a population of 405. It's shot up. So,

it's really been ramping up the charts over the last 80 years. I think it could break 500 within the century. Whoa! To be honest, that's a surprise, considering the amount of dickling you would be expecting. over the last 80 years. I think it could break 500 within the century. To be honest, that's a surprise considering the amount of dickling you would be expecting. So, Swell. There's a few different ideas of the meanings of the name Swell because there's a lower Swell, there's an upper Swell.

It used to be the District of Lower Swell. Now it's just the District of Swell. Now, Swell, some people think means like a burning funeral pile. It's like an old English word. They found a load of remains of cremated people. And way back in the pre-1000s, a royal called Offa of Mercia had a big battle there and a load of people got killed. And they think that this is where they sort of did a big funeral pile. As we'll talk on later, this is clearly a very important place in ancient times they think that swell may have something to

do with the dickler river oh because i was thinking water like the swell of a the tide or a flood yeah maybe they think it's something to do with the shape that the banks are of the swell, like implying that the river's swollen. Maybe? I don't know. Or it could just be a corruption of the spring that's there called Our Lady's Well. Ah, swell. Our Lady's Swell, yeah. Yeah, a lot of people say,

skin hell. Yes, or like trying to correct someone who thinks that the word specific is the word pacific and you're saying it's pacific it's specific you're onto a losing battle you're never going to win that fight no you're basically saying the same thing drop out now yes how is offer spelled is it is it like buy one get one free or is it oh double f a no it's not it's not a bog off ah it's it's like a two for one then wait Wait, hold on. Hold on.

Whoa. Is that the same? Bog off. Buy one, get one free and two for one. Is that the same offer? That's the same offer. James, they've been taking me for an absolute fool. I thought that was two different types of offer.

It's only when I said it out loud then that I've realised. That's the same. What about buy two, get them both for half price? It doesn't trip off the tongue as well. Stop doing maths at me. Is that the same as well? That's the same, isn't it? That's a two for four, one or a B-O-G-O-F. Bog off.

It depends whether you prefer numbers or letters, really. Letters for me, please. Bog off then. I hate the number round of Countdown. Oh, really? Yeah, can't do it. Just do the letter round. Oh, I could do them both.

You're arrogant. I don't wish to brag, but... It's a bit late. I'm really good. You really good at Countdown, James? Yeah, I'm pretty good at. You're arrogant. I don't wish to brag, but... Spit late. I'm really good. You really good at Countdown, James? Yeah. I'm pretty good at Countdown, yes. So, yeah, like I say, this was potentially a very important place in ancient times.

There's a load of barrows there that date from the Bronze Age, and it was clearly some sort of Bronze Age cemetery. And this is... Sorry, this is on the road to Gwiting Power. What? G-U-I-T-I-N-G Power is, sorry, this is on the road to Gwiting Power. What? G-U-I-T-I-N-G Power is the name of this village. Oh. Gwiting Power.

Gwit, gwit, gwit. How is it? I don't know. If anyone's local listening in, write in and let us know. Get tweeting about gwiting, comma, the pronunciation of. Or get f***ing about guating. We're going to have to bleep that, James. Well, there's more.

There's more to come. There's a whore stone as well on the road to Upper Slaughter. Lovely. We're deep in slaughter country. Nice. There's another stone which is called the whittle stone or whistle stone, which is pitted and notched. If you see a picture of it, it's all what you'd imagine a whittled stone to look like.

It looks like... Has it been whittled down? It looks like just people have had a bit of a go at it and taken lots of little chips off it, but it's actually led down on the ground near the village hall. Having a rest. I mean, we've all been there.

You know when the villagers have been having a go at you all day? All 430 of them or whatever. 405. 405. Feels like 430. I'm going to lie on the ground near the village hall. I'm going to lie down outside the village hall. Look up at some bunting, probably.

Oh, we're all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at bunting. Yes. Watch the clouds scud by. Oh, nice. Clouds are pretty much the only thing that scuds. I never hear about anything else scudding. Missiles. Yep.

Those are the two main ones. Clouds and missiles. Clouds and missiles. Clouds and missiles. The two sides of the scud coin. You can't really relax if you're watching the missiles scud by. Yeah, it's not as relaxing. So it's about five foot by four and a half foot, and it is said to be immovable, not even by all the king's horses and all the king's men,

which I think is a much more suitable job for their skill set than egg repair. Yeah, but also one of the reasons they wouldn't be able to do it is that they take up too much space. The interface area of the rock is quite small. That's like max seven guys and zero horses. Bunch of ropes though. Yeah, I bet the combined strength of all the king's horses and all the king's men would be enough.

Well, they say that if you did manage to move it, then the very next morning it would have returned to its previous place. That's annoying. However, this isn't where the stone originally was. It's actually been moved at least twice in recent times. Just to be clear, we're talking about the immovable stone. Oh, yeah, this is the immovable stone. Right.

It started life on the top of a hill near the church. Then a farmer wanted to prove that he could move it, so he moved it into the vicar's garden. Oh, right. And then the vicar moved it to near the village hall.

To not in his garden. To not in his garden. This is my garden, actually, and I want my things there. Yeah, I don't want this whittle stone or whistle stone. However, you remember that other one I mentioned on the road, I don't want this whittle stone or whistle stone. However, you remember that other one I mentioned on the road to Upper Slaughter?

The horse stone. A horse stone, yeah. That's six foot by three foot, and a farmer tried to move it and found that it went down eight foot into the ground, and it snapped his horse's tackle. Oh! I mean, in those days,

they employed someone in the village to do that, so actually that's probably just saved him a bit of money. It's putting good, honest people out of work, more like. What am I supposed to do with these gelding pliers? Oh, everyone will be gelding themselves in the future. That's what Andy Warhol said, wasn't it? In the future, everyone will have 15 minutes of self-gelding. It shouldn't take that long, 15 minutes.

You're definitely doing it right. That's why they had a professional. Yep, yep, yep. We've made a mistake. I wanted this and now that I've got it, I realise it's a nightmare scenario. It's basically, it's the self-checkout of the gelding world. A lack of items in the bagging area.

That's quite good, that, you know. You can have that. Yeah, I can't believe we got somewhere. We can leave that in now. I mean, it's foul, though whole the whole imagery is horrible yeah um now you remember our lady's well from earlier in this episode yes like literally a minute ago oh no i've forgotten there is an actual well in the village called our lady's well and this immovable stone when it hears nearby stow on the world clock strike. It goes to this well for a drink.

Bum, bum, bum. I'm not going to do them all. We'll just loop it. Not only is this stone movable by farmers, vicars, and weather, it also just moves by itself. This is one of the most ambulatory immovable stones I've ever heard of. Exactly. There was a local who was a kid in the 60s,

and he says he used to see the Grey Lady go to the well and drink, and she's supposed to have walked from the church to this well and have a little drink. He thought she was a nun who was going to get some water, and it was a hazy figure, a hazy grey figure, presumably, in the sort of vague outline of a person. Yeah. That sounds like a big stone.

Yeah, are you saying that the Grey Lady and the stone are one and the same? I think they are. And you think there's only two midnight drinkers? Well, in the 50s, a girl saw a man standing by the well who subsequently disappeared. Otherwise, that's just a man near a well story. Yeah, I was going to say, this story better hot up. So that was potentially three different spooky well visitors.

Well spooky visitors. Well spooky. Would they chat? I don't know. Yeah, I guess it's probably like the water cooler of the afterlife is a spooky well. Yeah. You just get to the well, talk about the latest box sets. On Ghost Netflix.

According to Mark Turner, the author of Folklore and Mysteries of the Cotswolds, aka my favourite book, he had a source, a reliable source, a local historian source called Guy Stapleton, who in the late 1940s attended a school at Nether Swell Manor. So that's Nether Swell Manor, as in, are you Netherswell Manor? And in their main hall, there was a big wooden organ.

And apparently it could play itself by night. I'm not surprised. Yeah, this is the spooky organ of Netherswell Manor. The story goes that it was donated by a local who loved playing it so much, he even died whilst playing it. Everybody loves doing the thing they die doing. He died as he lived. A lot of people really like drowning and falling.

Gasping. Being really old. Getting murdered. Very popular things. The haunted organ of Netherswell Manor. did you call it? Nether Swell Manor. The Haunted Organ of Nether Swell Manor. They all sound like a saucy hidden object game to me. And just one more thing.

In the mid-90s, there was a shouting ghost in one of the pubs, the Golden Ball Inn, which I think is the most 90s ghost we've had. It was a lad. It was a ghost from the lad culture. Oh, yeah? It was shouting around the Golden Ball Inn. Oh yeah? It was shouting around a golden ball in.

Was he doing like that tangoed thing? That was big in the 90s. Hit him around the face. Yeah. And the final little ghost is that there was a little old lady

who said she saw three ghosts in her bedroom on Fox Drive in the 80s. Any details on those ghosts? Or did she just drop them in in a sort of three for one? They were always preceded by a cold snap,

like a very cold, intense feeling, and they would appear by a bedside lamp, which I think gives us a few more clues as to what actually happened. One of them was a girl aged around 18 with a blue hat. Another one was a young man who was partially obscured

but had piercing blue eyes. Colour blue, appearing again there. And the final one was a little old lady with a fawn-coloured shawl. A mirror is what that sounds like. Yeah, she was very kindly, but when she was asked

where she came from, she disappeared. Quite rude. That is a bit rude. And just if you thought this has been far too phallic-centric rudeness, in the church,

St Mary's Church, there is a Sheila Nagig in there. What's that? It's sort of like a pagan female goat sea. Oh, okay. You know the one. Is there a way of explaining that for people who don't know what that means and don't Google it? I definitely don't Google any of this.

Don't Google it, James. It's a pagan, probably fertility image of a lady. That's probably enough information. That's all you need, really. I was looking at the Wikipedia page, and the town is described as having the finest countryside, a tranquil village green, and plenty of mellow stone cottages. And there was a little, it's got the tiny little number next to it

to let you know that it's from an actual source. Yeah. And I clicked on that source, and that source was an article in the independent newspaper titled Sh**ton, the village that dare not speak its name. Well, the independent used to be a respectable newspaper. So I guess that's a source. There are a bunch of places with that word in the name, but this one is actually named after a stream that people pooed in. The word is not a corruption of anything else is it still called

that then well the whole article was about how there's like new housing estates being built there that are being called cititon and there's a whole cititon versus cititon vibe going on there with the locals and the new people they're dropping the h there's sitters and f**kers it's described in the article. And it, of course, included a list of funny place names. Pratt's Bottom. Yeah. Licky End.

Wet Wang. Oh, of course, of course. Crapstone. And Knob End. Where's Knob End? I think it's in Lancashire. That's what I call the end of a loaf of bread, the Knob End.

Is it? What do you call the end of a loaf of bread? The crusty bit. I call it the end of a loaf of bread. The knob end. Is it? What do you call the end of a loaf of bread? The crusty bit. I call it the end of a loaf of bread. The sad day. The end piece. A little bookend for a wheat library.

Yeah, but I think sandwiches are like little pamphlets. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Usually about meat. I often have one about lettuce. Oh, yes. And cucumber. Oh. Sometimes a spread.

Oh, very nice. But you just call them the ends of the bread? Yeah, I call it the end piece. I was talking to someone who called them fatties. Fatties? I suppose they are thicker than the rest of the slices sometimes. They are. At one Edinburgh festival that I attended,

for the whole festival, I'd go to my local Asda's and I'd go to the bakery section and get my loaf of bread because it's going to be better. You want one that was baked in store today? Yes. I'd take it to the slicer and ask the lady, can I have that sliced medium, please?

And they did. Yeah. And then on the last day, I asked that and she said, machine's only got one setting. You've been making a prize fool of yourself, James. For a full month. Longest, one of the longest months. August.

It's joint longest month, August, yes. With all the other ones that are 31 days long. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but still. Oh, what a fool you were. I know. I was mugging myself off unbeknowingly. It was a placebo thickness of bread. Yeah. You believed you were getting medium. It was just standard. It was a placebo thickness of bread. Yeah. You believed you

were getting medium. It was just standard. It was just generic. It was just sliced. Just sliced. Yeah. I'm glad I didn't ask for thick, like, because it was the last day. It's like, well, I'll treat myself. Get thick. I would have been disappointed. It's the last day, so. Go large or go home. Absolutely. Because you're going to get through the bread faster with thicker slices. Yeah. And then she just, it just sliced it in two. The thickest slices. Then you've just got two knob ends.

There was at least one in her eyes. This has been a terribly filthy episode, James. Yeah, I'm sorry to bring us crashing back down into the gutter. Some of us looking at bunting. You ready to score that? I'm feeling fairly disapproving,

so I think it's the perfect time to segue into the scores. Category first, names. All right. Well, you've gone back to your old ways. Come on. You scoundrel. It can't be well-researched history every week. No, all right.

What you've done is you've leafed through until you found a name that made you go, then you've told me that story. In full honesty, the other pages of my notebook, I was casting around for other stories. One was about Coombe Hill in Gloucestershire, which is about a sea serpent. Do you want to know how they got rid of it?

How did they get rid of it? A man befriended it by feeding it until it was taken food from his hand and then he smashed his head in with an axe that's all there is about that story unfortunately very effective that's how you go none of this make armor with spikes in it and sing a song and that's really really rubbish it really makes you think he's got a plan and he just hits it with an axe i could have thought of that that's not a strategy but he did it but he did it no yeah you're right fair play to

fair play to the hero of coombe hill and the page literally before lower swell is it genuinely says battle of edge hill october 23rd 1642 broadly a draw and then yeah my head was turned by a nether swell. Broadly a draw. Yeah, you made the right choice. And it's five out of five for names, so... Yes! I want to mark you down, but I can't. You can't.

I can't dickle around. It's a five. Yes. And now, Supernatural. Okay. What more do you want? Well, we've got a self-playing organ. At an all-boys school.

I forgot that. That's pretty mysterious and unexplained. Oh, sorry. I need to give Mark credit he deserves in his write-up of it. No doubt there are other apparently inexplicable incidents concerning the harmonium, but finally it succumbed to earthly wear and tear, and in 1963, no longer being playable,

it really did give up the ghost. Very good. Lovely stuff. Well done, Mark. Yeah, that's why that's my favourite book. We've got a mirror in an old lady's room. And two other ghosts, fair enough. A sleepy old lady.

We've got a trio of well ghosts. Yeah, well, well, well. And, of course, the stone that goes to that well. It can't be moved, but has that goes to that well. Mm. Can't be moved, but has been moved. Explain that. Yes. Do you know what?

I'm going to say it's a three, and here's why. Whoa. I can't think any of them were spooky. Not even the little old lady that vanished when she asked where she was from. It's just a confused old lady having a nap. It's just a rude woman. Yeah.

It's just a burglar. Yeah. It's just a burglar. Yeah. At best. No, I'm going to say it's three because you were ladling ghosts all over the place. But I didn't get chills from them. You didn't get the tingle. I didn't get the tingle.

From the whittle stone or the whistle stone. No. There is a tingle stone in a couple of villages down in Minchinhampton. Is there? There's the tingle stone, yeah. It's the tingle stone of Minchinhampton. Is there? There's the Tingle Stone, yeah. It's the Tingle Stone of Minchinhampton. Yeah.

Well, James, you've already got five out of five. You've squandered that. I think it is the Tingle Stone of Minchinhampton. Well, that's made it even less spooky. Because nothing is less spooky than the Tingle Stone of Minchinhampton. So it's a three out of five. All right. Now this category.

Category three. Eversa Blue. The right. Now this category. Category three, Ever so blue. The return of the category blue. Blue. It was quite a blue story. Wasn't it rude? There's some bleeps in there. There's some... We're definitely going to have to put them in.

Yes. I don't think people will be able to tell what the name of that town that became Sitterton used to be. They'll never know. The addition of one letter turns Sitterton into a bleep. There's been a lot of double entendres. Where? Or buy one entendre, get one entendre free. Yes, two for one entendres today.

Or beurre-gœuf, as that would be. Where? Deux pour une. That's two for one. Yeah, very good. Probably. There was the river. I mean, by calling attention to them,

I'm making them less double entendres and more singular. That's the great thing about this podcast. We deliver the entendres together and separately. First one, then the other. I've only just realised, one of these, that the ladies' well, that is on the driveway to a lovely house called Abbotswood, which is also sort of rude if you think about it really hard.

It's a little bit, could be a little bit rude, yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to think of a way of marking you down. Ah, I've got it. What? I'm going to give you a four, James. You might be saying, surely a five, but I would say to you that the double entendre is not exactly blue. What you've been dealing here is the classic 1970s sitcom rudeness,

not classic 1980s home video rudeness. Right. This is all very much in are you being served territory and not actually that rude. We don't know what that shouting ghost was shouting in the 90s, but I imagine it would definitely be questionable nowadays. Wait, are you trying to cancel that ghost, James? Yeah, I am.

I mean, that's about as cancelled as you can be. He's already dead. Okay, this sort of doesn't work because it's category four, but it's the rule of three. Rule of three. Okay, break it down it down break it down break it down i understand the rule but explain how that applies to this story there's lots of threes which is a it's a strong number of folklore yeah it's a number of power yep three different explanations for the name swell good funeral pile something to do with dickler or it's just a play on Our Lady's Well.

There is Neolithic stuff. You've got barrows. You've got one stone and another stone. That stone, that immovable stone, has been in three different locations within the village. Okay, good. There's the number three again, yeah. There's three late-night drinkers down at Our Lady's Well. The man, the nun, the stone.

That's the third three. Oh, maybe I should leave it there. There's the three ghosts that the little old lady dreamed by a bedside lamp. Yep, that's four threes. And, um... Well, that's very disappointing, James. I have to be honest, if there had been three lots of three,

I would have given you a five. But as there were only four lots of three, I'll have to give you a four. I've neither Mickled nor Minchinhamptoned. I've neither Mickleton hooted nor Minchinhamptoned. Yep, you've fallen twixt two stools. I'm neither sitter or shitter. Okay, then. I'll take it.

I'll take it. I'll take your four. Good. That was a lovely story. Classic Law Boys territory there. And if you enjoyed that, get on to the Patreon to hear all the bits we bleeped out. But it is just the bits we bleeped out. So it's just James saying the word over and over again.

It'll be intense. Just four minutes of constant... Or sitting. Do you know what, Alistair? If you enjoyed listening to that with your ears... I did. What would you give to see us do that in front of your face and be able to see it with your eyes as well? Oh, to see a podcast recorded live,

I imagine that would be a spectacle. That would set you back, what, £10,000, £20,000? Easily. It's like the original NFT. I think what you're saying is that you can get tickets to see us record an episode live on the 27th of June in London. 2022. 2022.

Yes, at the Bill Murray pub in Angel in London, in England, in Britain, in Europe. That does narrow it down a bit. I'm going to see Jurassic World Dominion on Sunday. On purpose? Yes. Okay. All four of us.

1996. Ooh, that's a great price. It's costing. That's worth watching for that price. Yeah, go see anything. And, you know, the film's over two hours long, so this is VFM. That's great value for money.

Yeah, well done. Oh, add this in. There's a Minchin Hampton bonus episode in the Patreon feed for our Patreons. Good, well done. Thank you.