Loremen Podcast - S5 Ep20: Loremen S5Ep20 - Culhwch and Olwen - Valentine's Special with Jenny Collier

Episode Date: February 15, 2024

Are you in the mood for love? Are you in the mood for giant-slaying? Are you in the mood for some really, really long lists? Then - good news! Jenny Collier returns to her role as our Welsh Valentine's Day correspondent with aplomb and another romantic tale from the Mabinogion. Expect curses! Extremely circuitous schemes! And a dog that is bigger than it sounds! This episode was edited by Joseph Burrows - Audio Editor. LoreBoys nether say die! Support the Loremen here (and get stuff): patreon.com/loremenpod ko-fi.com/loremen Check the sweet, sweet merch here... https://www.teepublic.com/stores/loremen-podcast?ref_id=24631 @loremenpod youtube.com/loremenpodcast www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod

Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm James Shakeshaft. And I'm Alistair Beckett-King. Alistair, you know what time of year it is, right? It's the most romantic time of the year. And it's also the Welshiest time. Yes. And we've got a Valentine's Welsh correspondent

For a Valentine's Welsh special Who is it? It's Jenny Collier It's Jenny Yes And we've got more from the Mabinogion Oh, and please join us at the end Where we will be doing a number of apologies

Let's issue some corrections Mm-hmm. Alistair. Hello, James. Alistair Beckett-Key. Yes, that's me. I'm whispering because... Is that you, Mr. Shakespeare? Is that you? Yes, that is Mr. Shakespeare, James. Alistair Beckett-Keith. Yes. Yes, that's me. I'm whispering because... Is that you, Mr. Shakespeare? Is that you?

Yes, that is Mr. Shakespeare, yes. I'm whispering, but it's made me sound angry. But I'm not actually angry. Are you very small and angry or are you whispering? I'm not clear. It's the same vibe. I'm neither because I'm actually really happy because Alistair is Valentine's.

It's the most romantic day of the year yesterday. Yesterday, if you're listening to this on the day of release or the day it's Valentine's. It's the most romantic day of the year yesterday. Yesterday, if you're listening to this on the day of release or the day after another Valentine's Day. Some other time. We just don't know when you're listening to it. But of course, we have our Welsh Valentine's correspondent, deputy lawperson, Jenny Collier. Welcome back to Lawmen, Jenny Collier.

How are you doing? Hello, Jenny. Hello. I'm good,men. Jenny Collier, how are you doing? Hello, Jenny. Hello. I'm good, thanks. Thanks for having me back. Hello. Thank you for not whispering angrily. I wasn't sure if you were going to follow suit there

and come in like, hello. Hello. I'm also angry. It sounds more Welsh when you say it in an angry whisper, though. You sound a little bit more Welsh. Is it? All the Welsh people I've met have been angry whisperers, I think. I've angered a lot of Welsh people over the years.

Have you just been causing problems in Welsh libraries? Just knocking the books. Will you stop doing it? Respect the joy system. Yes. Well, Jenny, welcome back. It is, of course, Valentine's and you are, of course, the Welsh Valentine's Deputy Lawperson Correspondent. That's a word soup. It's a very normal title that a normal podcast would have for someone.

I appreciate it so much. Thank you. How have you been? Good, thanks. Yeah, I've been dentisted today. I have been reading my Mabinogion, so I'm feeling very festive. Excellent. You're not still under, you haven't been given knockout gas or injections or anything that might affect the story. I mean, I'm not sure, actually, because at one point when I was reading it this evening, I wondered if I was in a dentist coma because there was a bit about a toothless hag. And I was like, it's me. No. You do have teeth, Jenny. I do have teeth, but they try to pull them out and the thing,

they really get rough with it. So they feel all wobbly. Oh, wow. Well, I'm not sure the relationship you described with your dentist is healthy. I'm not sure they should be trying to pull them out. It sounds like you were jumped by a tooth thief. It's difficult to say. You said it really well, though.

That was the tongue twister. A tough thief. A tooth thief. A tough thief. Tooth thief. Tooth thief. Tooth thief. It would be so hard to report.

What? What's happened to you? Oh, that's the tongue twister. It would be so hard to report. What's happened to you? He's jibbering mad now. I can't understand this toothless hag. Throw him in the cells until he sobers up. He's going away. Nightmarish scenario. Well, I'm glad they didn't make off with your teeth, Jenny,

because that means you can do what God intended us all to do at Valentine's, which is podcast. Yeah. Yes. Yes, the most romantic medium of communication, the podcast. And as we've found in recent years, the most romantic book is, of course, the Mabinogion. Mabisnogion.

Oh, lovely stuff. Podcast break for applause there, everyone. That is wonderful. Yeah. Take your headphones off, respectfully, listeners, and do a little applause. Take them off so you can hear the applause. That was lovely. What's coming from the Mabasnogion? How Kelhoch won all the way. Nice. Very nice. Now, weirdly enough, listener,

I'm going to let you have a little peek behind the curtain. This was originally intended to be part of the Christmas Pig series of episodes, but I was struck down with an illness. And so we had to reschedule Jenny. I've got a bone to pig about this actually. Oh, okay. All right. She's already punning James. We're in trouble. This is wonderful stuff. I got invited upon the podcast around Christmas time and I was like, this is unorthodox, but I'm up for it. And then, so I nearly started-

You're like a 19th century diplomat. This is highly unorthodox, I'm up for it and then and then so I nearly like a 19th century diplomat highly unorthodox this is very irregular but I mean I haven't I have done other ones where it hasn't just been like I did a COVID one didn't I so it's like all the all the holidays the lockdown valentines and so I was like it wasn't really a holiday no no it wasn't so then i was like i'll do it i'm up for it and then on the day that you asked me to do it you then were like i just remembered i can't do it i'm ill and then i was in my car driving around christmas time and i listened to the lawmen podcast and you had danny rob on and I was like, they got a celebritarianos and so they tossed me aside.

So I can read you like a book of law. That's what I think happened. I don't think that's not how it happened, is it, James? That's not how it happened. It isn't. No, not quite. We recorded Danny Robbins in 1996 and just sat on it. We thought this guy. He was recorded in advance, I'm't. No, not quite. We recorded Danny Robbins in 1996 and just sat on it. Yeah, we thought this guy.

He was recorded in advance, I'm sure. Hey, listen. Hey, there's no judgment if that was the case. I fully agree that Danny Robbins is the preference. Sure. But James wouldn't have lied. He would have said, Jenny, you're out. You got bumped for Robbins.

He would have been straight with you. He wouldn't have fabricated it. You did have COVID, didn't you, James it wasn't you told me you had covid it wasn't covid but it was a it was a rough cold because i'd had covid the month before so it can't have been covid or it didn't show up as covid but it was a rough cold and we were recording every single day in the run-up to christmas and i was just like this one is actually quite romantic we could do it at Valentine's instead. But also because it ties into one of the other Christmas Pig episodes

we did with Nick Mason, also a celebrity, which was about the tale of, what's the name of the big boar in this story? The Australian Pig. The Australian Pig. No, Brunwick. Yes, that's it. The Big Pig. Now, I must say, I always struggle with these ones because you do the research and I don't. Brunwick Brunwick Brunwick Yes that's it Right The big pig Now I must say

I always struggle with these ones Because you do the You do the research And I don't So I don't know What any of the names are Because I'm English But I can see it

Written down for this one I can see Culloch And Olwen Is that right? Yeah Culloch Culloch

So that's C-U-L-H-W-C-H Cc-h and olwen is spelled olwen that one's fine i haven't got a problem with olwen very confusing yeah we did the story of the we just sort of summarized the story uh and mainly concentrating on the bit with the big pig and But we didn't really go into why these King Arthur and his gang were after the big pig. And that is what we wanted to discuss with you for the Valentine's episode, because it is, as ever, one of the most romantic tales.

Are you telling me, James, that we're going to have a Valentine's tale with a pig in it? It is more than one spot pig adjacent. Oh, it's like Christmas and Valentine's Day have come at once. We're making a pig purse out of this sow's ear. Do you want to take it away, Jenny, then? Oh, my goodness.

Well, it's such a long story and there's so many people and characters and pigs. And lists. Oh my God, so many lists. I found a lot of lists, unnecessary lists. The reason it starts off quite pig-esque is because Kilchurch's mum, from the hour she became pregnant with him, she went mad. And she couldn't be, yeah, she couldn't go near a dwelling for the whole pregnancy. So then when she was about to give birth, her senses came back to her and she was like, I have to go in somewhere to do the baby.

I've never known anyone to be house averse during pregnancy. That's serious. You hear of people chewing ice and gravel and stuff in pregnancy. Yeah, coal sometimes. But never eschewing houses completely. Chewing, yes. Thumbs up. Eschewing houses, no.

Thumbs down. Chew, don't eschew. Nice. Nice. That's my advice to anyone who's pregnant and thinking that they want to go into the wilds. As with all great advice, it rhymes. Yeah. So she decided she's going to go into a building for the birth.

So she goes into a pig sty and then gives birth to the baby, gives the baby to the pig swineherd, the person looking after pigs. Not the herd of pigs themselves. No, no. Not in a position of authority, but the swineherd. Although, he may as well, because he got called, his name actually means kind of pigsty, because he was born in one, and then he got fostered by… Culwork.

Culwork, yeah. Huch is pig, Kul is stye. And so that's why his name's that. And then he gets fostered until the new wife of the dad. Oh, sorry. So the mum who gave birth in a pig stye got ill and died, but she was like, to the husband, she was like. Sad, but not that surprising.

Yeah. Yeah. She was in a bad way and so um then she's probably cold yeah she'd shrewd houses for that long um and so she says to her husband just before she dies you when i'm about to die you're not allowed to marry anyone until a two-headed briar grows on my grave. I don't know what, like a plant. And, but then she gets one of her servants to clean the grave for every day. So she's like, he's never going to get another woman because the grave is so clean and sparkly.

And so the servant does that for a while. Oh, you women and your ways. What are you like? Oh, I would do exactly the same as her. But the trouble is, once you're gone after seven years, your servant, after a while, the servant's like, there's no, I don't have to do this anymore. And then what but the and also like he was he kept going back to the grave to look for the briar so he was just like

jonesing for a woman like from quite early on after her death so then he goes to it and then like the day that the servant stops cleaning the grave he he's like, yes, briar, I can take a new wife. And so he goes and... This counts. Hey, this counts. Yeah, the briar. This counts. And I've looked up briar just so we know.

We can all picture in our head. It's, according to the Oxford Dictionary, any number of prickly scrambling shrubs, especially a wild rose. So that's not difficult for it to have two heads, I'm guessing. Yeah. And romantic. I knew they were prickly.

That's all I knew from Brer Rabbit's briar patch. But I didn't know anything more than that. There we have it. Well, he got lucky across a two-headed briar. And then he's like, right, who am I going to go out with? Who's going to be my new bride? And then all his court counsel say to him, oh, we know just the woman for you, the wife of King Dogged.

So he's like, cool. And they immediately just go there and kill the king. So she's already married. The wife of King Doggett is already married to King Doggett. Yeah. There are no single people in the area? That's outrageous. There are single monarchs in your area.

Yeah. You shouldn't be doing that. No. It's not very romantic so far. Is he so cool because he's got a dog's head? Dog head. I don't know if it's a single G. Doged.

Queen Doge. Doged. Doged. Doged a bullet there. Doged. Wait, which one of them dodged a bullet? They're all, I think, in a worse situation now. Not King Dodged.

No. They dodged a bullet? They're all, I think, in a worse situation now. Not King Dodged. No. They dodged into the bullet. That is still a form of bullet dodging. Dodging into it still counts. It's not easy to do. Technically, it's just as hard to dodge into a bullet as it is to dodge out of the way of a bullet. So we should be equally impressed.

Did the assassin shout, Fetch, as he pointed it? We should be equally impressed. Did the assassin shout fetch as he fired it? Oh, King Doghead. Is that the end of King Doghead? He's out of the story. He's dead. King Doghead's done.

The wife is taken by force back to the husband's house. He also takes her daughter and lands. It's quite scurrilous behaviour for someone who was so scrupulously honest about waiting until the death of his boy grew, I think. It's a real twist. Really? That's so true. Do you know what? He just got so gosh dang tired of waiting that he went crazy. No time to get to know anyone. I'll just kill him and have his wife. And so the queen is not best pleased because she's like, I actually had a life over there. Sure he had a dog's head. So what? He was loyal. So she goes to a toothless hag's house. Hag, for God's sake, will you answer my question? She hadn't asked her a question yet at this point.

She hadn't asked her a question yet at this point. Sometimes you do have to be like that with hags, though, because they'll want to be cackling. They'll want to be showing you a cauldron. You're going to be like, hag, hag. This is a business meeting. Will you answer my question? And then the hag said, he has has no children but wait for this the queen said woe is me that i've come to a childless man so she's like gutted to have come

to a childless man but wait wait till you hear this what the hag says then and now you can start to understand the impatience of the queen the hag said you need not worry about that it is prophesied that he will have an heir he may have by you, since he hasn't had one by anyone else. Don't be sad either. He does have one son. What? Come on, Hag. Come on, Hag. For God's sake, give me a straight answer.

It's not like the swineherd is even an illegitimate heir or anything. No. He's legitimate. He was his wife's son. Is it because he's got all poo on him from the swine? I don't know. I don't know. Or maybe they just haven't seen him for years.

Yeah. And they assume he's covered in poo. But the fact that she says thrice, he hasn't got any children or he's got no. Yeah. Just relax. A, don't worry about it. B, he hasn't got any kids. C, he's definitely going to have kids.

D, probably yours. E, also he has got a child. Bye. I want to find a tooth thief. What? That's nonsense. Hag. That's what I was going to be saying.

For God's sake. For God's sake, hag. Flipping hag. This is always like this. Drawing your little scratched claws on a plate like in Robin Hood. Willow.

Yeah, that was Robin Hood. Do you remember that bit? Yeah. Yeah, that was horrible. With the blood and the spit. That was like the dentist today. Sorry. So then

the queen goes back to her husband and she's like where's this kid you didn't tell me about and he's like oh fine

send for the boy so they went and got the boy clean any poo off him just in case give him a little scrub I'm not looking at him for a little while he's probably

covered himself in poo to be honest that's an accurate idea of parenting just haven't seen him for a few minutes they've probably covered themselves in poo.

So clean him off, clean off the poo. And then the queen, Dogged, goes, oh, do you want to marry my daughter? And because she's got a daughter. So she's saying to Kulwukh, do you want to marry your stepsister? And he's like, I'm not old enough to marry. And then Queen Doggett is so annoyed about this rebuttal, a rebuffle, what did you say? Being rebuffed.

He's eschewed. I've never heard anyone say rebuffle, but it sounds great. How dare you rebuffle me so? She's obviously still mad from the whole toothless hag god no one just talks straight to each other and be normal for god's sake do you want to marry my daughter i'm i'm a poop of a child oh flipping heck not as well. I didn't need this today. Yeah. Absolute nightmare. For this, you must pay by only marrying the scary giant's daughter, Olwen.

Asbada den pengaur. Oh, is that how you say that giant's name? That's the scary giant, isn't it? Asbada dad man. I knew I should have got you to say it first. Isbadadadman. What's his name? His name is Isbadadadman.

Isbadadadman. What? It starts with... I think you're breaking up there, James. The line is breaking up. Isbadadadman. Isbadadadman. Which sounds like an insult they would have said at your school. James, the line is breaking up. Yes, yes. Spadaden Penkawa, which sounds like an insult they would have said at your school.

Yes, Spadaden. Yes, Spadaden. Yes, Spadaden. Yes, Spadaden. I'm not sure how many dads to put in there. Penkawa. Penkawa I'm feeling confident about. There's one dad, but it's a Spadad.

Spadad. Yes, Spadaden. So that's how you say it's a spad dad spad dad you're spad you're spadadan is that so that's how you say it right jenny pretty much there but double d is pronounced oh so it's spadadan but i like that you just said yes yes so it's spadad it's like if you find your tooth stolen. Yeah, exactly. As if you're a toothless hag saying a spada, da, da, da, da, da. A spada then.

You've just been the victim of a tooth thief. A spada then. Or as you might call it, a da-da thief. A da-da-deeth. A da-da-deed. Are you communicating via Morse code, James? I just caught a glimpse of my face while I was saying that, and it was frightening.

Are we a long way through the story at this point? We have literally just done the inciting incident. Okay, right. This is the prologue in the 12 books. I nearly misnamed the exciting incident. Okay, okay. I'm enjoying it. I'm enjoying it. I'm enjoying it a lot.

So he's got to marry the daughter of the scary giant Aspavad. Aspavad. Aspavad. Oh, I don't know. The daughter is Olwen, just for name fans, to desperately keep track of the names in this. No one could. No one can. I'm going to picture Andre the Giant and one of the names in this. No one could. No one can.

I'm going to picture Andre the Giant and one of the Olsen twins, just so I've got an image to attach to these names. So according to Yusuf Avin, he was the chief of the giants and he is a vicious giant that lives in an almost unreachable castle and so huge is his frame

that he requires forks to prop up his eyelids. And there's a picture of him with like a stick. Are meal fork sized forks? It's just a sort of stick that like basically does this and I have quite a hefty brow so I'm actually probably quite, I can kind of feel his pain. I can't believe the fork

propping the eyes open has come out so early because for me that's like page eight of my notes so I'm like oh we're cutting we're cutting straight to the end to the chase sorry was the was that the climax of the story this guy that's it that's the end of the story he uses eyes towards the end you're gonna have a face cutlery man for a father-in-law. Goodbye. Yeah, so Colwick has fallen in love with, well, no, am I spoiling it there? Colwick. From my point of view, he hasn't met Olwen yet.

Well, here's the thing. He's cursed to not be able to marry until he marries her, which is a roundabout way of saying he can only marry her. But he falls in love, doesn't he, with the idea of her, with this Olwen. He falls madly in love. He's not just like, right, I've got to do this to get, and then I'll, you know, there'll be some sort of shenanigans and then I'll probably find another bride of, you know, maybe a dog-headed man's wife or something. No um he actually falls in love with her or the idea of her and his dad is like oh yes that you do realize that's the daughter of yours

he said it probably a little bit more confidently than i did yeah he could speak welsh yes you what you need to do is you you're going to need some help from your cousin. And this is a lovely little reveal. Can I do this reveal, Jenny, or would you like to do the reveal? You do it. You can do it. Well, I think Cullock would have rung up and gone, Arthur, it's your cousin, Cullock.

Cullock Pendragon. You know that new quest you're looking for? Well, get a load of this. That was back to future reference. Tick. Pendragon. You know that new quest you're looking for? We'll get a load of this. That was back to future reference. Tick. So this is King Arthur's, I mean, now that you mention it you did say that at the start, so that's not that surprising but I am surprised.

This is King Arthur's cousin colour. It's King Arthur's cousin. If you needed to go on a quest to kill Yzithethethon. I didn't know he was going to kill the guy. I thought he was going to seduce his daughter. I mean, he's the fiercest giant in the land. You don't have to kill

as many people. The other guy killed Dogge. Just get to know a girl. Talk to her. Ask how her day was. Sign up to Hinge. These ancient Welsh incels are like, I don't know what women want. Stop killing people.

Their husbands or dads. Don't kill their husbands or dads for a start. You weren't happy when we hadn't met. You weren't happy when I killed your husband. What do you want? For God's sake. I'm trying. But his dad gives him a tip, doesn't he, on how to...

I'm sorry if I'm skipping over anything, Jenny, please. You're the Muppet. What did his dad say? It will be easy to do this. And it reminds me of my dad when he thought I could just walk into the BBC with my CV and go, I work here now. So I think the dad is just like, this will be so easy. Get Arthur involved.

Your dad is like my dad in that respect. Oh, really? Have you tried getting on television? They've got people to stop you just getting into the building. There's quite a high security. You got past them though. You were on telly. I was on telly,

but then they cancelled the show. They shut down the programme. What have we done? Yep. They were like, nah, nah, nah,

nah, nah. What was the thing that he said he would do to make it easier? He said, how are you going to win his trust over is you need to go over to him and get him to cut your hair. Oh yeah. I looked up the notes and the notes were like that shows that if he were to cut his hair it shows basically that he's he's sort of like a father figure to him and he can be trusted around you with knives kind of thing yeah and he'll sense the blood relation sort of thing who's cutting whose hair in order to win over his own cousin's trust,

he needs to get that cousin to cut his own hair. So to win over King Arthur's trust, he has to get King Arthur to cut it. There are so many things that could be taken out of this story to streamline it. There are so many elements you don't need in the movie version of this story. So to gain King Arthur's trust,

he asks King Arthur to cut his own hair. Yeah. And then he goes to King Arthur's castle and they won't let him in, basically. Not the BBC. So he,

I think he just starts, he just hangs out outside the castle and just keeps asking to come in and the doorman keeps saying no. Need someone

to cut my hair. This is a normal request. They're finally, King Arthur's like, what is going on out there? And they let him in. And, well, he does cut the hair in the end, doesn't he? He does get his hair cut by his cousin. I'm not happy about it.

Gets the mirror out, does that. Right? And then the name listing begins. Yeah, what? It's a big list as well, isn't it? So big. And then the name listing begins. Yeah. What? It's a big list as well, isn't it? So big.

Why does he begin listing names at this point? This, this kid's a weirdo. He's an oddball. So what is it he says? He says, I invoke her in the name of your warriors. So he's like,

you have to help me get this woman. Arthur's like, while Arthur's cutting his hair, giving him like, giving him the head massage after the wash. He's like, what are you after? What can I do you for? No, any holidays this year?

Something for the weekend. And then he says, I want to marry the daughter of a giant. And he's like, yeah, this will be easy. As easy as going to the BBC and getting a job. He's like, yeah, this will be easy. As easy as going to the BBC and getting a job. The list of names is so many pages long and it's all son of so-and-so. Do you want me to give you a couple of them?

I've got a couple of, I've got my favourites. Oh, yes. Please give me the edited highlights. Apologies for the pronunciation, Jenny, and all Welsh people and most people with ears. Gila Josseth, he could leap 300 acres in one leap. Chief Leaper of Ireland. Sol and Gwadon Ozzol and Gwadon O'Dayth Sol,

who was able to stand for one whole day on one foot. Okay. Yeah. And Gwadon Ozzol, who, if he was to stand on top of the biggest mountain in the world, it would become a flat plain under his foot. He's got a heavy foot. This is like when you're in school, the kids in the top year

describing their abilities to make themselves look cool. Oh, him, he stood on one leg for a whole day. Yeah, right through maths and everything. day yeah right right through maths and everything yeah it's like the way it's written out here it's got hole as it like in brackets so it should read for one day on foot but they've added the hole just to really hammer it home for one whole day on one foot and he's sandwiched between someone who could leap 300 acres and someone who could stamp down mountains yeah that's it's the least impressive one the uh standing on one leg yeah it wouldn't be easy but it also crucially wouldn't be useful um there's also somebody who what's his name more fran son of tegid no man laid his weapon

in him because he was so ugly everyone thought he was an attendant demon yeah then this san verparid angel no one laid his spear in him because he was so beautiful everyone thought he was an attendant angel did i say angel for the last one no demon so it's a demon exactly ugly and fit so so judgmental but they didn't get fought because of that at the end of the battle and you you've sort of come out of it unscathed there's gonna be a little bit of you like is that because i'm really because i'm so ugly everyone thinks i'm a demon and your mom's just like yeah knits always go to the cleanest hair Oh, no. Skilty Scanfordroid.

Wherever he was going, he wouldn't bother taking the road. He would just run over the tops of trees. Because it sounds like the way you find a droid in Star Wars. Just do a little Scanfordroid. Skilty Scanfordroid. Yes. magical attributes that this one of the one of these warriors has got so a magical attribute is if if he has a son he will be stubborn i don't think that's that magical right but then but then the next the next thing is described as just an attribute, not a magical attribute.

The next attribute is when he carries a load, be it large or small, it will never be visible, neither in front of him nor behind. He's water and fire retardant, but that's not magical apparently. Impressive. But stubbornness. No, no. Stubborn kid. Explain that, Richard Dawkins. But stubbornness? No. But having a stubborn son.

Explain that, Richard Dawkins. Don't read the whole list. Please don't read the whole list. Those highlights have been great. One of the summaries online that I found about it said, of this section, like, it's not a very entertaining part of the story, but you can imagine that maybe some storytellers did manage to eke some entertainment value from it.

So I guess that's the thing. There's some bits, though, where it is just a paragraph of begat kind of thing. Yes. Ex-begat, blah, begat, blah, begat. So is this, who's saying this? Kulloch is saying this. Kulloch is saying, yeah.

You know, it's invoking all these people, like, you've got to do it because... Look at all these soldiers. They all think you should come with me and help me kill that giant. I guess so, yes. And also thanks for the haircut. It looks great. Grow in.

I just always wear a hat anyway. Yeah, go now. I'm just ruffling it right up. All the guys in a round table like, haircut. But after three pages of invoking all the different warriors, Arthur says, I've never heard of this maiden. So he didn't stop him like one warrior in. I stopped you there.

I don't know what you're talking about. Sorry. So he's like, yeah, I've never heard of her, but we'll send messengers and give me some time and we'll search for her. And then Kel Hur is like, I will give you one year from tonight. There wasn't a huge rush on in those days.

In their stories, they were like, we've got to get this done. So I'll be back in a year. In a stories, they were like, we've got to get this done, so I'll be back in a year. In a year, we can set off. It's like, it is like talking to people in development for television. They're like, oh, yeah, no, something's happening. Let's check back in in a year.

I wouldn't know because I never did breeze into the BBC with my CV. And just start listing names. Terry Wogan. So what happened next? Is there any chance we could skip forward a year? Well, yes, they wander around for a year. Okay.

It gets to, unsurprisingly, they don't do it in a month. It gets to like 364 days. Have we got a second toothless hag in this tale now? I don't have the second toothless hag yet because what happens before the second toothless hag is the shepherd with the dog the size of a nine-year-old horse. That sentence just gets better and better. Wail of the long face, nine-year-old.

Because I'm almost. I honestly think you could just say a shepherd with a dog the size of a horse without saying how old the horse was. And I would still have gotten the image that the dog is big. Oh, for God's sake. For God's sake, shepherd with a dog the size of a nine-year-old horse. Really burying the lead. You wouldn't need to.

Would you need a lead? You definitely need a couple of leads i'm guessing well this dog how does the shepherd come into the story so they come across it on their quest no they just happen across him the shepherd's there with this really big dog and no troop has ever gone past him that he did not harm or hurt and any dead tree or bush that was on the plane his breath would burn them to the very ground. I don't know if they mean the shepherd or the dog. It's not clear. Surely the dog.

Surely the dog. I think, but there, so then the Gwyrhyr Gwylstawd Iaithoedd, which is the warrior who can speak all languages and animal languages, puts a spell on the dog so that it goes to sleep, so it won't harm anyone. And then they said to the shepherd, now that his dog's asleep, the first thing they say to him, you are preposterous, shepherd.

Oh, they say prosperous. They say prosperous. Oh, good God, shepherd. I thought they were dissing him in a weirdly uptight way. You are preposterous. For God's sake. Can I just say, now that your dog is asleep, you are preposterous.

Don't decide on a nine-year-old horse. Have a word with yourself. Get a smaller dog. This is ridiculous, frankly. I wrote that down because I was like, I can't believe how sassy they're being with this scary shepherd but then he called him prosperous oh okay all right okay sorry about that prosperous he's prosperous and then he said there's nothing that can ruin me except my wife a bit of um ladsads. Bit of humour there for the dads. Whose sheep are you tending?

And whose is that fort? And then the shepherd goes, you stupid men. He's tending the sheep of Esparvada Bencaur. So he's one of the giant's staff. Hence the really big dog, of course. So by then they've all gone back to the shepherd's house. And then the wife of the shepherd, she opens a coffer.

What's a coffer? A small box, I think. She opens a small box. Containing money, I think, usually. Yeah, for your coffers. This one doesn't contain money. This one contains a small boy who is the only one. Is he the size of a nine-year-old horse?

It doesn't say what size he is or age, but he's the only one of 23 remaining of their sons because all the other sons have been slain by Asbjörðan. Oh, that's why she had to put him in the box. Put him in lip safe. A little protective coffer. Yeah. And she's like, I don't have any hope for this one.

And then Kai goes, listen, he can come with me. And either neither of us get killed or we both do, which isn't that appealing really as an option. That's not a great deal. I'm not sure that makes a lot of sense because the kid is not going to help in the fight. No. And if he didn't go, then Kai would die and the kid would not die. Might not die.

How is the kid going to help? Don't know. He's not going to jump in for him, is he? The kid's in the same place it's not died already. Yeah. She'll leave the kid in the box. Yeah.

In the small coffers. I assume that's what she said. No, I'm going to leave the kid in the box. Well, she got him out in the first place. I think once he was out, then it's like, he's part of it now. It takes him so long to put him in the box well she got him out in the first place i think once he was out then it's

like he's part of it now it takes him so long to put him in the box there's no point trying to get him back in that box they this shepherd hat family they have all went round james this might not be right so correct me if i'm wrong but they have all went round for a bath every week or something do they yeah she comes around to wash her hair like a Timothee advert. Is she giant or is she normal sized? I think she's normal sized, standard sized, but she's got some magical powers. She's called White Track. Four white clovers appear everywhere she steps, which is a nice idea,

but not if you've just had a new carpet put in. Keep your shoes on. It's a shoes off house, but not if you've just got, had a new carpet put in. Keep your shoes on. Keep you, it's a shoes off house, but not for you. Yeah. So she comes down to wash her hair. All Tim Ote.

She's got breasts whiter than a swan, which is a good thing. Apparently, according to the book. Yes. She's got cheeks redder than something

really red she'd been jogging why are they so red she's got a touch of rosacea and he actually falls in love

with her with her actually just to be clear is she wearing clothes at this point well when she has a bath

they look at it all. The shepherd and the wife. I was imagining her just sort of just doing her hair bent over a tub. You know, fully clothed, just doing the hair. So she doesn't come for the bath when all the warriors are there. She comes for the bath every week or so. And then the people who invite her for the bath are like, listen, we can invite her for the bath, week or so. And then the people who invite her for the bath are like, listen,

we can invite her for the bath, but you better not harm her. Or we'll just invite her round, but you better not harm her. And they're like on our oath. You don't have to get her naked. We're not going to do anything bad. We just want to meet her.

So she comes down, they meet her. It's not going to be weird. It's not going to be weird. Put the baby back in the box and make sure that the horse-sized dog is asleep. She's running around all pink of cheek or in the nip. So just get him in that copper. And then Kalko is like, she is who I'm in love with. And he's like, I love you.

And it's like, just be friends with her first. Like, just figure out, like, rather be friends with her first. Just figure out, rather than this major murdering quest. It's like the first woman you've met who isn't a hag. So you immediately said that you love her. Just give it a minute. Let her get a towel. So she's like, you can try and marry me but my dad has got a curse that means he will die when i wed so come and talk to my dad tell him that you mean it tell him that and make it so there's no doubt

in his mind that you're going to be a good guy and then see what he says again still know like what do you do at the weekends like you know how are things no just just oh my dad's got a curse yeah who must i say it's unlikely that uh you're gonna be able to marry me i've said that in tiger going to be able to marry me. I've said that in Tiger Tiger to people in the past. So they go, right, let's do it. And so they go to Asbathaden Ben Cowra's house. Cowra is a giant, and we used to sing a song in school called Gawr. Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gawr, Gaw If anybody Welsh is listening, you'll know what that means. It's just about being a giant with a head that's really far from the floor.

And that's what I said. James knows all about that. Hello. There he is, there he is. He's back. Big giant. I just need a fork to keep my eyes open. He's just playing with real cars as if they were toy cars

on the street while we were recording. I'm just playing with this dog that's the size of a nine-year-old horse as if it was a normal size dog to me. To him, it looks like a normal dog, yeah. What a small dog. He's carrying it like a little toy dog that you would have if you worked in the media. What was happening in the story again?

Oh, they went to the castle. So they went to the castle. Right, we'll go there. Immediately killed nine gatekeepers and their mastiffs. Massive mastiffs? Massive mastiffs. Do we know how big they were? Standard size mastiffs.

And then the giant is like, where are my scoundrels to put the forks under my eyes? So not only does he have to have forks under his eyes, but they have to be propped up by scoundrels. What a life. I was just a scoundrel to do that. Why would you? Why hire a scoundrel? He's just having a bit of fun. Come here, you scoundrel.

It's like some kind of scoundrels back to work program. It's like when I was a kid, my dentist used to call me gangster. I wasn't a gangster. I was 10 oh that's really cute but he did put that gold grill in for you didn't he james yes yes he did and i mean this is where my note-taking became a bit more sparse basically the the giant gives gives a deal to culloch, doesn't he? Culloch.

Culloch? Is the worst silent in Culloch? Have I been saying it wrong this whole time? Culloch. Culloch. Culloch. Yeah. Culloch.

Okay. I won't apologise for you, but that one. APK needs some forks under his eyelids. Come here, scoundrels. I can see you falling asleep. So he offers them a deal. Yeah, he offers them a deal. He's like, I've got 40.

This is where you can see also the person writing the story starting to lose interest because the giant's like, you've got to do 40 tasks before you can wed my daughter. Too big a number at this point in the tale. And the first nine are all to do with ploughing a field, basically. And they go away and they do that. And then the next bunch are all to do with the boar from- This is our big pig.

The Christmas pig. The big pig, yes. Now- And also a lot of the sorry go on whoa that's ooh la la trick to it is that the name of the pig that's the name of the that was the irish king that got turned into the pig all right that is the big pig from christmas pig episode with nick mason but all the tasks lead into each other in like a way like for the wedding i will need my beard trimmed yes but it can't be trimmed without you first dressing it in witch's blood but you can't get the witch's blood unless it's kept warm by something

and it's like a text adventure yes then you have to go into the cave and solve the goblin's riddle and they have to give you the key to the witch's cabin and then you need a knife exactly yes in order to cut the beard they need the the scissors from the boar's head in order to get the boar they need to in order to get the boar they need to get the only dog that can hunt the boar in order to get the only dog that can hunt the boar they need the owner of the dog that can hunt the boar but he's been in prison since he was three days old and no one knows where he is they're gonna have to get the gang back together and the only way they could jail break this guy the only way they can get mabon is to speak to the oldest salmon.

You're introducing too many new characters at this point. Yeah. You can't bring in a really old salmon. The salmon of Hlyn Hwyl, the oldest animal of them all. And the only way they can find the salmon of Hlyn Hwyl is to speak to the oldest animals that they come across. So I guess old, you know, Dr. Dolittle Knight has a chat with the animals, finds the oldest animals that they come across so i guess old you know dr doolittle night has a chat with the animals finds the oldest one that knows where the salmon is they go to the salmon

some some they go on the back of the salmon and go on a big adventure for a bit and then they fight i think they only find the guy by chance because they're walking past a prison and they hear someone singing and someone's like i I think that's Mabon. And they go in and they bust him out. Is this Mabon as in Ogion? No. Is that the guy? No, that's because he's Mabon Ogion.

It's not Mabon Ogion. Just a coincidence. I thought it was a bit of an author insert. Just doing a little cameo. Okay. There was a talking eagle as well. That was a, yeah, chatting eagle. And a guy that could turn himself into a chatting eagle.

Oh, was it? Is that two separate characters? He turned up when they, because he was the person that flew over so they could see the comb in the boar's head. And then, you know, now go listen to the Christmas Pig episode. Wait, is it a comb in the boar's head or is it scissors in the boar's head?

There's comb and scissors. There's a full vanity set, if you remember rightly, in the boar's head. Probably like comb and scissors. There's a full vanity set, if you remember rightly, in the boar's head. Probably like a little thing to polish your shoes as well. And I don't know. Things that would come out of a cracker, but like a sort of a classy cracker for dads.

Yes. Like a business traveller cracker. Yeah. Not the emotion fish. No. The fickle fish. That fish is just reacting to heat. Or everyone is frigid.

Yeah, or that's the possibility. You just put it on your hand and it goes, everyone here is drunk. What a judgy fish. They get the stuff off the boar's head, don't they? Ultimately, using tricks, using King Arthur style tricks. Yeah. They also did some tricks where they went and told somebody

that they were really good at polishing a sword, eh? And they let them into the castle because of that. And then borrowed a sword. We're like, oh, let me look at your sword. Let me see if I can polish it up nice and good for you. And then they did that and then chopped his head off. And that was in order to get some beard oil or something. It's all really convoluted that I couldn't keep track of.

Ways of making things lead to another thing. So when they chopped that giant's head off, because it wasn't the main giant, it was a different giant. That was just some giant. Just some giant. That's just another giant. I mean, that does sound ridiculous, but on the other hand, you do read about things like that happening in Florida,

where someone just says to a police deputy, can I have a look at your gun? I'm brilliant at cleaning guns. And he's like, yeah, okay, this is not exactly a fine book, but yeah, have it. Yeah, that was to get the sword that they were going to use to kill the boar. Right.

Oh, right. As well, I believe. And at one point, all the warriors went out with combs in their hair. I don't know if that was, that was just like a weird sort of stag do moment where they were all just like matching hair care. To make the boar feel less weird about it. No, we'll all do it. We're all just like matching matching hair care to make the ball feel less weird about it no we'll all do it we're all doing it i'm just for morale so they've completed this incredibly long point and click adventure game chain of things in order to get scissors

to cut his hair is that right to Yeah, to cut the giant's beard so that he'll look nice for the wedding of his daughter, which he does not want to have because as soon as his daughter weds, he's going to die. It wasn't even a sword, though. It was the sword they needed to use

to fashion the tusk that they pulled out of someone who was alive. Oh, really? So they were going to shave his beard with a tusk that was still pulsing from inside something's face. So it was just a strop or whatever.

Isn't that what they called? Is that what they... razor strops? Is that right? I don't know. I'm going to Google it. I'm going to Google it because it's... Is there a word for a tusk pulled out of a still living face? Or a strop.

No, a razor strop is one of them funny pieces of leather. So they're basically, that's in the giant's hair in order to sharpen up a tooth, in order to shave the, to be honest, quite picky giant. Yeah. You need to play test this. If this were a video game, there's too many steps. Much too many.

The bit where you have to list 300 names i think we can cut that i think we can cut that yeah and then when they just when they get there to shave the giant they shave him but they shave him down to the bone and his ears off oh oh they've shaved his ears off but the giant isn't like, oh, now I'm done. The giant is like, how do I look? And then... Just with blood coming out of his face. Just skeleton from the cheeks down.

Oh, I haven't had a shave for ages. You forget what your chin looks like, actually. I didn't realise it was all covered in blood. And I didn't have any ears. The giant's like pointing to a picture of Robert Pattinson that he gave them at the start. That's what I wanted. No, what's this?

All blood and gore. I don't have a beard. My ears look really small. Pardon? And then I don't know if at that point they chop his head off, is it? Yeah. I stopped writing notes after the talking eagle. Yeah, it just kind of goes, oh, yeah, so they shave him

and then like next sentence, and then they cut his head off. And then in the same breath, they're like, and Kulhukh married Olwen and they didn't marry anyone else in their lifetime not like it's just the ends yeah it wasn't like it doesn't mention how happy they were it's like it doesn't say like and then a year in she got the ick i'm glad it's focused on all the important stuff like how they got the beard oil and the scissors and so forth. That's exactly the sort of person I go out with. There's somebody that puts all this effort into something really stupid

and they don't just say, what's happening with you? Then nothing like that. But then the last sentence, and that night Kelhuch slept with Olwen and she was his only wife as long as he lived. And then there was no other mention about whether they were happy together

or anything like that. Romantic. Full stop. End of the book. Pretty romantic. You do get the feeling though that the writer was losing his audience

as the, you know, if it's like from an oral tradition. I've only ever done gigs like that where you're speeding up quite a bit towards the end. Yeah, you've been great. Good night. I thought he said there were 40 tasks.

That's only 18 and half of them were field based. Yeah, then they killed the giant and they got married. So yeah, you've been a great audience. I think the author didn't know what having sex was because they didn't write. They were like, and then they slept together. And they had that twig earlier on in the story. And they're like, if you'd done that with me,

I wouldn't have been able to make love, which is what I've been hearing so much about. That doesn't suit, I don't know, for a romantic tale, there doesn't seem to be any. His idea of flirtatious banter is troubling. Yeah. Make her laugh. Make her laugh.

Don't just leap out while she's showering. For God's sake. Let's get married. Thank you very much, Jenny, for the wonderful tale of Kilwick and all when and a few tasks quite a lot of other characters oh my goodness thanks for having me sorry it was such uh sorry there was so much information well that's good amount of information because we're going to score

it now oh yeah we're gonna score yeah oh. I'll try and keep the scores tight. Respect for the listener and you, Jenny. Chop the edit down as if you're shaving a giant's face. And just for the listener, I can guarantee however long this is, it's been chopped down. Yeah, we lost. This is the reduced version you're listening to. Some of the names. Well, first of all, actually, score the first Alistair.

It's got to be naming. I mean, come on. As always, there's loads of great Welsh names. What was the name? The Giant, who sounds like he's had his tooth stolen. That's great. Ysbeth Ewan. Ysbeth Ewan.

Yes. Coluchan Olwen. Olwen's great because I know where I am with Olwen. I know how to say it. It means white tracks. Yep. Any other good names? Yeah, all those guys in the list.

I'll just take it as read that there are good names in that list of long names. I mean, it is a list of names. So what could be more names than that? Yeah. I mean, I'll read them out and you can put them on the Patreon. People could pay to not have the list of names read to them

I'm going to say five I'm going to say five for names in the hope that I don't have to sit through the entire list of the names

of other people who Kulloch has heard of perfect sorry are you on about me King Arthur does the classic who Culloch has heard of. Perfect. Sorry, are you on about me? King Arthur does the classic. So what's up, mate?

Never heard of her. And someone whose first name and only name, like Madonna, is Hag. Okay, second category, Jenny, let's go with the classic supernatural. All right. Well, you've got a dog the size of a nine-year-old horse. Yeah. Which is impressive either way, but you really don't know when to start visualising it.

Talking eagle. A boar with a comb in it, a talking salmon that's very old, a man who can talk to animals. Have I missed anything impossible so far? There's a man who could stand on one leg for one whole day. Right, we're taking a point away for that, because that's really bad. Well, in that case, can we have somebody

who can run along the top of trees instead of finding a road oh yeah that's quite quite dainty quite legless like and somebody leaves a clover everywhere they step yeah that's magic as well someone's got a stubborn son another point off the stubborn son that same person when they carried something it was invisible whether they held it aloft or behind. Okay, we're back up. All right. Yeah, actually, just about that one, that sounds like someone who's just complaining. It's just like, oh, I've got a really heavy bag on.

You can't see it, though. You can't see it, though. Even if I swing it around the front, you can't see it. It's so heavy, though. Don't give me anything more to carry. My son's stubborn. I just wanted to get out of the hut so did culloch's mum yeah she was didn't want to live inside but that person

was also fire retardant and water retardant he was an asbestos guy asbestos guy Invisible accoutrements He's also made a Gore-Tex Right, okay I'm assuming that I'm assuming that His invisibility powers are real I'm going to say it's a four So I'm knocking I'm knocking several points off

For Grumpy Son For Grumpy Son And other rubbish special powers But there have been so many good powers It's still a four Three acres somebody could 300 acres somebody could 300 acres somebody could leap

who's the biggest leaper in Ireland I said it was four it's four that's a good number you should be very happy with that okay

this is like brinkmanship of who wants to go to bed first so it's just like we're just like fine four points

fine okay what is the third category the third category is dodgy dealings dodgy dealings okay there's so many yeah that's when you make a deal with a giant and then you chop most of his face off that's quite dodgy that like everyone's got everyone's got a little hustle

going on like oh marry my daughter no okay then which case, you can't get married until you marry the daughter of a... Clear the briar. Clear the briar every day. Clear the briar. Oh, that's a dodgy deal, then. Yeah, that's a dodgy... Did the kid in the box thing ever tie up, by the way? Does that story ever tie up?

Do we know what happens there? That child did emerge later on, but my brain was on screensaver mode when that happened and I didn't find out why the boy was there. There's just loads of characters and you forget some of them. Just forget about that kid. It's still a weird deal. That's a weird deal.

The hag has clearly got something going on. Oh, for God's sake. You don't know what her deal is. Oh, for God's sake, Ag. She's got a lot going on. Her reputation preceded her, I think. Too old. The wife of the king, Doghead.

Like, what a dodgy deal that was. For her, yeah, that was a terrible deal. It's got to be high for dodgy dealings, but I feel like I can't just honestly come in and give you a five, because that wouldn't be dodgy dealing, would it? That wouldn't be dodgy enough. I think that would be ultra dodgy dealings.

It's got to be some kind of sting in the tail, there's got to be. Hold on, it's a five, but if you turn it upside down, what does a five look a little bit like? It's a two. No!

Yeah, take it up with a hag. Call the ombudsman. I'm sorry. I'm compelled by the rules of narrative to trick you. Can we not get some extra points from names?

Just give us extra points to not say the names to add to this category. Some of the spare name points. I mean, we've never had an inter-category point swap. And I've just been over. Okay, yeah, all right. All right, four.

Cool. Another four. Thank you for accepting my 30 names. I thought he was going to give us 40 tasks to do in order to earn that four. Thank you for accepting my budget names. I thought he was going to give us 40 tasks to do in order to earn that four. First, you must record a podcast. What is the final category? Well, I mean, Jenny, thank you very much.

That was a lovely story, really well told. It is a good story. I was a bit sarcastic about how long it was. However, I think perhaps this category slightly undermines that. I think this final category should be for eyes propped open. I think I'm going to go with like, just wrap it up. Eyes propped open.

Oh, so you're saying that it's a little, the story goes on a little bit long it does yeah I mean it's scoundrels to I don't think we've done it justice to be honest but there is that big list of 300 names yeah can I just tell you something I agree is too long and but I want to tell you something heartwarming about this I don't know if you know that I can't burp I've got a medical condition where I can't burp but while I was reading this Mabinogion just before we went and recorded I was so relaxed and sleepy that I did a really big weird burp while I was reading it

and that felt like a magical like um Welsh like sleepy time witch witchcraft. And so, yeah, I agree. Too long, snooze fest. Is that a pitch to get an extra point in this category? Yeah. I think it's showing respect to the story. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Because, I mean, you've got the two giant ones

and then we've got a bunch of eyes here. And I think this is... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, we've definitely got two because we've got the bunch of eyes here and I think this is... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, we've definitely got two because we've got the giant's eyes. Oh, oh. I think...

And I've just remembered another one of the warriors, when he was sad, one of his lips used to fall down to his navel and his other lip, he'd wear it over his head like a hood. That's like eyes propped open as well. That is.

The lips and the eyes to the stomach. I think the weirdest arguing I've ever heard in defence of a category. So I'm going to say four just to put an end to it. Yeah. I don't want to hear about more of these guys. They're disgusting, horrible people doing weird, horrible Welsh things. So it's four. It's four if you'll stop.

Brilliant. I had 39 more reasons. Thank you again, Jenny, for coming along. Thanks for having me. Hope it's all right. And warming our hearts at Valentine's. What have you got to promo at the moment? What are you pushing?

I guess I'm pushing my Edinburgh show, which is tentatively called The Title of the Show is the Sound of a Burp. Nice. Very nice. That's the title of the show. The title of the show is The Title of the Show is the Sound of a Burp. Wow. Well, I hope we haven't ruined the show, because I presume it's got something to do with the fact that you can't burp.

And we've just... Don't know. I don't think you've in any way boxed yourself in with that title. I think you can talk about anything. I'm not even going to mention burping in the show, but that's still going to be the title. You've boxed yourself in like a little boy in a coffer. Structurally. That title.

Thank you very much, Jenny. Thanks for having me. Lovely to see you both. I hope it's all right. That was great. Bye. I was being a little bit sarcastic there, but I think that was actually quite a good story.

It was really. I think you judicious quite a good story. It was really... I think you judiciously edited some of the dull bits out. Yeah, it was a fun story, but yeah, it really does feel like the writer lost faith in it towards the end and just like, let's wrap everything up. Guys, bards, we're not getting a second series. But for the bonus extras with some behind the scenes stuff

and more fun stuff please do check out the Patreon patreon.com forward slash lawmen pod and you also are granted access to the Lawfolk Discord where you can chat with like-minded lawfolk but now we have to record scratch yes yeah and chat with like-minded law folk. But now we have to record scratch.

Yes. Yeah. Quite serious now. Black border. Yes. Corrections and apologies. There's a lot of them. Okay.

I'm just going to get the notes app on my phone. I don't know if it made the edit, but if we did talk about the love tester fish in this episode, that is a good reminder that in the last episode, I said that in The Simpsons, Grandpa Simpson was reincarnated as a jukebox, which I could not have been more wrong. Oh, dear. He was, of course, reincarnated as a love tester machine. Oh, yes, he was. Mayor Culper, I apologise. Well, that's...

James, did you make a mistake? You wouldn't have got the county something was in wrong again, would you? Yeah, I got a South Coast county about an important historical battle wrong. This is basic stuff, James. This is very basic. This is basic stuff. These are fundamentals. This is a big...

Where is Lyme Regis, James? It's in Dorset. It's not in next Dorset, asis, James? It's in Dorset. It's not in Next Dorset, as you call it. It is in Dorset. Of course it is. Of course you do. I bloody love the place. You love the place.

Ah! We could have done the joke as well. I know. What the thing? I just, just, I'm not, I'm not, I'm sorry butting, because I am sorry. I'm sorry if you felt like you were in Dorset. I'm sorry if you felt like Ly Regis was in Dorset.

No. When we visited, we stayed in a town next Dorset in Devon. Across the border. And I should have known, because there was a bit where we crossed the border where you saw a sign saying, you're now leaving Dorset. You're now leaving Devon. And then two metres up the road, welcome to Dorset. And we joked about the fact, where were we?

We were in that hinterland. Yes, the weird liminal space. Yeah, the liminal county. Dorset and Devon. Yeah. We were neither Micklin nor Macklin. And this was a real shocker. We've discussed capital numbers and why they exist a number of times on the podcast.

Yes. A capital number of times. Joel has emailed the podcast to tell us capital numbers do exist, which is why in old fonts, including in the font that the Lawmen logo was written in, there are uppercase and lowercase letters. Basically, they're slightly smaller. Lowercase ones are slightly smaller and hang underneath the line.

Yeah, like your nine, the tail of your nine. It's very much like a G. Like a G, yes. Your threes, your fours, your fives. Six, not going under the line. Seven goes under the line. Very odd. I have to say, though, the email from Joel says,

capital numbers from the Pedantry Corner. It's called Pedantry Corner, Joel. It's not called the Pedantry Corner. Oh, Joel. You've made a fool of yourself. Oh, Joel. You've really embarrassed yourself there. The Pedantry Corner. I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah. Pedantry Corner. Oh, Joel. You've made a fool of yourself. Oh, Joel. You've really embarrassed yourself there. The Pedantry Corner.

I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah. Pedantry Corner. Yes. So we are sorry. We're so sorry. In a way. We're sorry, Simpsons fans.

We're sorry, numbers. The numbers. Sorry, Joel. Yes. And so back to the music and then a little bit of post-credits. And thanks very much. Join us next week for another episode. See you later.

I just can't wait to find out what we got wrong in this one. Error. Error. I've had no pancakes today and it is 8.38 at night. I am, I'm going to swear, I'm pretty smad through. I'm sorry,

is that a phrase you've just coined? Is that an existing phrase? Maybe, in my rage. Oh. Yeah, I'm very annoyed. If you were a stick of rock

and I were to snap you in half, what would it say in the middle of the night? Where's my pancakes? Ha ha ha.