Loremen Podcast - S5 Ep40: Loremen S5Ep40 - Cornish Terrors

Episode Date: July 11, 2024

Get ready to cream your teas, because the boys are going to Cornwall. Join us, and meet West Country witches, the long-fingered ghost of Looe Island and a gritty reboot of Rumpelstiltskin. As James will tell you, Cornwall is such a mysterious county that no one really knows where it is. These Cornish Terrors spring from the pages of The Folklore of Cornwall by Tony Deane & Tony Shaw. So this episode boasts more than double our usual Tony content.  This episode was edited by Joseph Burrows - Audio Editor. Come see us LIVE Again! https://www.angelcomedy.co.uk/event-detail/loremen-live-again-18th-aug-the-bill-murray-london-tickets-202408181730/ LoreBoys nether say die! Support the Loremen here (and get stuff): patreon.com/loremenpod ko-fi.com/loremen Check the sweet, sweet merch here... https://www.teepublic.com/stores/loremen-podcast?ref_id=24631 @loremenpod youtube.com/loremenpodcast www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod

Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm James Shakeshaft. And I'm Alistair Beckett-King. Alistair, we are getting in the car. It's the middle of the night because we're driving to Cornwall. Yes, the wall of corn. And I've double checked this time we're definitely going to Cornwall and we might even meet with the devil himself.

What's the story? It's just a little smorgasbord of Cornish terrors. Alistair. James, there's a note of disappointment in your voice. Yeah. Is it me? Have I disappointed you? No, it's me. It's me again. You've let yourself down? Yeah, big time. Please tell me you haven't let the listeners down.

Oh, I've let them down the most. In a way, I've not let myself down because I perform true to type. Okay, I see where this is going. Have you got the counties of England wrong? Yes, yes. My county blindness has reared its oddly shaped head and oddly divided up head to mean that I got the counties wrong again last episode. Okay.

I don't know if anyone's keeping count, but based on the people who listen to this, someone probably has a spreadsheet. Yeah. What happened? The event took place in Dorset. I can't stress that enough. Yep. Yeah.

So you got that right. I got that right. However, I said that the place used to be in Cornwall and then changed to Dorset because they moved the county. The county boundaries. That makes sense. Yes. Yes.

Most of that makes sense. Apart from Cornwall and Dorset don't neighbour each other. They don't share a border. They don't share a border. They don't share a border. So that was an enormous administrative change there then, James. Well, no, it wasn't. What it was, was I confused the county of Somerset for Cornwall. Right.

Because of the accents and the farmers and so forth. For me, Devon and Cornwall, Dorset and Somerset, they occupy the same synapses in my brain. farmers and so forth. For me, Devon and Cornwall, Dorset and Somerset, kind of, they occupy the same synapses in my brain. They're like Al Pacino and Robert De Niro, or Bob Hoskins and Danny DeVito, in as much as, like, when you were a kid, you couldn't remember the difference between them,

even though they're so different. Yes, exactly. They're like former Prime Minister David Cameron would say Aston Villa and West Ham. Yes. Yeah, finally, a topical political joke on this podcast. Yes. It occupies the same place in his head. Look, I'm very sorry.

I'm sorry. I wasn't even involved. I suppose I was an accessory. I could have heard that and said, that's not possible geographically, but I didn't realise either. So I'm just as guilty as you, James. I mean, it's it's all well i don't even know what their relative scone administration is i'm taking us to cornwall and we're gonna have a bit of a chat about some cornish legends and ghosts and you know you know the usual witches, covens, the devil themselves.

I'm very happy to be in Cornwall, though I don't feel 100% confident that that is the county that this story will take place in. It is 100%. I'm not really going to commit to believing that until the next episode. I have, on purpose, taken these stories from a book called the folklore of cornwall by tony dean and tony shaw the two tonys a double tony we're in a double tony six two tonys is called yes it is a toonie and this was actually gifted to us by a listener this was sent in by cornish kate thank you cornish k Kate. A.K.A. Kate Cornish.

Yeah, thank you very much, Cornish Kate, Kate Cornish. This is the folklore of Cornwall. First up, I want to start with a little bonus ghost story, if that's all right. A bonus ghost is always welcome. Go ahead. This is Loo Island, spelled L-O-O-E. And a lady was staying on a farm there in 1850, and she was frightened by a tall aristocratic looking man with beautiful hands and long fingers and he appeared to her in a sort of bluish haze and then

vanished through a wall and this woman later had it corroborated from other people that they had seen blue lights but not the actual person and some later, a skeleton was exhumed on the island and it was found to be that of a tall man. How long were his fingers, James? Very. They were very long. Very long. And it sounds like that body was just found on the island, not in one of the normal places one would find a body. For example, churchyard. So it just was a skeleton? Yeah, a skeleton was exhumed, Alistair, the place I want to talk to you about, I'm going to spell it to you and ask you how you think it might be pronounced.

Oh, a challenge. Okay. Okay, I'm ready. It's in the Lemorna Valley near Land's End. So we're right down the end. I really, it definitely can't not be Cornwall because if it wasn't round here, if it's not Cornwall, it's the sea. Yep, Absolutely.

So this is the Lemorna Valley and it is the farm place of T-R-E-W-O-O-F-E. I'll say that again. T-R-E-W-O-O-F-E. Okay. I guess it's Trewofe. You'd think it was Trewofe. It's not Trewofe? Trewofe? No. Trewofe? Trove.

Trove. Of course it's not true of true no true of a trove trove of course it's trove to be fair it appeals to me because you just ignore most of the words that's how you read everything exactly but yeah in trove there's a there's a couple just another little sort of amuse bouche of some ghosts there's a there's some ghosts of a couple of children gathering wild flowers by the banks of the Mill Pool. It used to be the home of the, now, it's pronounced L-O-V-E-L-I-S family. Loveless. Loveless. Or Loveless. Loveless.

Loveless. The Loveless. The Lovely Family. Oh, the Loveless. Aren't they lovely? They're not so lovely, I'm afraid. Oh, no. Yeah, there's some bad news incoming.

The bad Loveless. Also, a lot of people seem to refer to them as lovels. So that I gets turned into a second L. So there's a bunch of ghosts in their old house, and there was a haunted room, which it was haunted by the sound of an old spinning wheel, which belonged to the spirit of a housekeeper who had to card fleeces of black wool until they became white.

But that can't be done, James. No. Do you know what a card, a fleece means? Because I didn't. I had to look it up. I have heard it before. It's sort of like, a bit like combing. It's lining up the fibres of the material.

Yeah, so they're all going in the same direction. I think I've seen someone doing it. There is a machine on display at Quarry Bank Mill near Manchester that does that. So I've definitely seen that because when I went to drama school, we had to do a project at Quarry Bank Mill, aka Style Mill. Spent a lot of time there. Hanging around the carding machine. Yeah, yeah. We had to do like a tour. Just networking. Yes. It's part of the mechanical process of doing cotton or wool.

It's before spinning, but after teasing. And again, teasing is part of the mechanical process. It's not like a sort of hazing where you have to break the spirit of the cotton. You think you're good enough to card wool? Well, let's see how you handle this onslaught. But it can't change the colour of the wall, can it? No. So that's an impossible task, like weaving ropes of sifted sand.

Exactly. The other thing that she had to do, she had to spin enough yarn to make herself a shroud, which is not impossible, but it's a bit like digging your own grave, isn't it? Somewhat foreboding, yeah. When the Cornish gangsters drive you out to the middle of nowhere with a spinning wheel.

Like, spin your own shroud. I see, I see. Okay. It's my impression of a spinning wheel. Really good impression of a haunted spinning wheel. It could have been a very small accordion. A busted accordion. But the Lovells family were immortalised, in a way,

in a sort of a Christmas, a mummers-type play called Duffy and the Devil. Have you heard of that? No, terrific name. It's thrown me off because there is a children's book series called The Little Red Train by Benedict Blathwaite, which is really good, really well illustrated. But the guy that drives the train is called Duffy Driver.

So I'm imagining him, but this Duffy is actually, it's not him. It's a maid from the local village. And do you want to hear just a short approximation of what happens? Yeah, please tell me. It's a Duffy. So it's a Miss Duffy in this case. Yes, it's a Lady Duffy. So she's quite hot, apparently.

Right. And she's catching the eye of lots of young men around the place, including the Squire. And the Squire's passing by when she's having a big argument with someone about who's any good at spinning yarn and she purports to be the best yarn maker in town and so the squire's like well why don't you prove it make me some yarn classic flirtation i know could he be more obvious but the thing is alistair she's not very good at making yarn at all. Duffy! Duffy! The only yarns she's spinning are lies! That's a very good point,

because the night before she's got to hand in this yarn, she says, Curse the spinning and the knitting. The devil may spin and knit for the squire for all I care. You've got to be careful with these potential double meanings. I don't think there's a double meaning in that one. I think there's pretty much a single meaning. And then...

All right, you've got to be careful about being taken literally by the devil themselves. Behind a bundle of wool out pops a weird little man. And he's dressed all in black with a peculiar little grin and an intelligent looking nose. Yes, I like those. What colour do you think he's dressed in? You've got a choice of two. Well, he said he was dressed in black, so I'm probably going to go with black is the answer. Black, James.

Very good. Yes! And there's a little clicking sound when he walks. Click, click, click, click, click. Sort of like a trip trap. Hooves. Hooves. Clearly hooves. He's ho a trip trap. Hooves. Hooves. Clearly hooves.

He's, he's hoven. A bit hoven. And he basically says, I'll do your spinning for you. And she's like, oh, thanks very much. And he's like, oh, and you'll become a lady. She's like, oh, thanks very much. And then he says, and then you can live like that for three years. And then you come in with me, unless you can guess my name.

And then the yarn appears. She gives it to the squire. And the squire's like, wow, she's super hot and good at yarns. I will marry her. This lady has everything. Up to this point, it is quite similar to the story of Rumpelstiltskin. It's ever so Rumpelstiltskesk, isn't it? It's very rumpled and stiltskinny.

Rumpelstiltskin. Pardon it it's very rumpled and stilt skinny pardon i beg your pardon i think that might be i think that might be the german name for rumble stilt skin can't remember something like that well you're trying to find out his name is i mean he's famously famously very difficult and then one version of the story that i found on sacred hyphen textscom. Not the first time you've read that, Earl, out to me, James. She basically, when it comes to three years, she goes to the squire. There's this guy. He wears black. He clip-clops when he walks around,

and he might be coming to collect my soul today. I think it's the devil himself. But unless I know his name, and it seems devil or the devil doesn't work i can't get rid of him and it turns out the squire well there's this other legend and i'll tell you that now the squire's got his own backstory and it's a separate legend yes he was out hunting one evening and he spies a white hare and gives chase and the hare fled into a big cave or Cornish Fogu. Oh.

And I do not know if I'm pronouncing that correctly. Fogu, Fogu or Inland Cave. And he goes in there and a dreadful sight meets his eyes. The hair had now changed into a witch and joined a coven presided over by a demon. And the demon turns on him. And in this version of the story, he finally emerges from the cave at midnight and was quite mad. But in another version of the story,

he just overhears them singing to the demon saying, Are you going to sing this? I'm sort of sing speak, maybe rap. Yeah, yeah. Hearer to the devil with his wooden pick and shovel. Digging team by the bushel with his tail cocked up. I'm not sure what happens there. That was the song.

That was the first song. And then the second verse is he's had a few beers by this point, the devil. And he's obviously thinking about this Duffy lady. He's singing Duffy, my lady. you'll never know what that my name is terry top terry top top and yeah basically he goes back and tells his wife that in in one version of the story he tells duffy that and she says i know what your name is it's terry top and has a sort of rap battle with a weird little man. And yeah, he goes off with his forked tail between his legs. Not forked tail. They don't have forked tails, do they?

It's like a triangle on the end. So in one version of the story, it all works out. Because conveniently, he happened to have a memory he'd never mentioned in which he heard the name of the devil. Yes. And up until that point. And that's Terry Top Top. Terry Top. Terry, Terry Top Top.

He kind of sort of scratches his own name there. Terry Top. Terry Top. Terry, Terry, Terry Top. Which is a bit of a silly name for a devil, if you ask me. I like your Beelzebubs. Your Lords of the Flies. Even Old Nick, I think, is better than Terry Top.

Barl. I like a Barl. Oh, Barl. Yeah, that's good. Mephistopheles. Lovely. Moloch. But Terry Top.

Terry Top. Even the top Terry. He sounds like he should be selling you windows and doors. I don't believe this guy is the devil. Yeah, he should be in a regional advert. Yeah, he's our devil, maybe, with his cape and his cloven hooves clopping about. So, yeah, but another version of the tale,

I think, is after the wife's been taken back by the devil, he's morosely out hunting and spies this scene and they're bragging about what they did and it sends him mad. Oh, mm. what they did and it sends him and sends him mad oh and his and his ghost is meant to haunt the nearby place of boley or bolly and the name means the place of slaughter there's another little tale from nearby pengasic castle if you want to hear that while we're here oh yeah if it features a few of the elements of that previous story,

but kind of remixed, like Terry Topmite in front of his coven. So in this one, there was the, I'm going to say, I went to say Milton family, but they've snuck in an extra I. It's Milton family. And a member of that family seduced a foreign king's daughter. And she and her son followed him back to Cornwall and he threw them in the sea. What? Yeah.

Why did he do that? I don't know. Not very nice. I think we might have touched on a version of this story as well previously when they sacked Cadiz. Oh, yes. But wasn't that in like, that was Leicester, wasn't it? Poppy?

Poppy. Yeah, that was Poppy's's story but this is a different county i know that much that's lincoln that's lincoln he seduced the foreign king's daughter she and her son followed him and he threw them into the sea the boy was fortunately rescued by a passing ship but the lady drowned and her soul slipped into the body of a white hair and the hair ran in front of the guy's horse you know ages later and it lost its footing and plunge and that too plunged into the sea where both the horse and rider were killed okay i feel bad for the horse there but i didn't realize how close we were to the sea there so

from the horse stumbling and plunging straight into the sea is was surprising yeah me neither and i guess also the rider didn't realise. No. Because if your horse is going to be scared by a hare, yeah, you need to be further from the cliff edge. There was another military who married a witch. And then after the wedding, no strangers were allowed in. Legions of spirits were summoned.

And sometimes the demons were so powerful that only harp music could placate them. Wow. Because they were usually just getting Timmy Tops on the decks. Yeah, Timmy Top on the ones and twos. And they had enough of that. Local people avoided the castle and then a tall stranger appeared. How long were

his fingers? It doesn't say. He was sat on a rock and then soon later the castle caught fire and the forms of two men and one woman were seen rising castle caught fire and the forms of two men and one woman were seen rising from the flames and the stranger was the devil himself. Well, that was a series of events. Yeah, all of those sentences were fine in themselves,

but I don't know why they were all put next to each other. It all seemed like it was a story, but from different stories? Yeah, it's like, there's a load of demons, only harp music, people avoided the castle, tall appeared castle burnt down needless to say devil himself devil himself one of the militants and his wife hated each other so much that they committed mutual murder

if one of them tells you that they've committed mutual murder i think i think it means the other one murdered them is that how it goes? The husband announced that he poisoned his wife's drink and she replied, they're going to both die because she poisoned his. Wow. And who overheard that? Well, a writer in 1910 supplied a plausible explanation.

The occupants of Pengasic appear to have had differences with the clergy in old times and the priests generally contrived to blacken the characters of those who became obnoxious to them so basically it's just the vicar's gossiping about them making it up keep it in the pulpit reverend more like liar and brimstone very good so that's a bunch of cornish legends thanks very much cornish kate kate cornish thank you cornish k They were terrific, if somewhat derivative of much more famous properties. They were like fanfic.

Yeah. I don't know whether they, some of them were like sort of like darker reboots, but also some of them were just, yeah, just the same. The devil's not got that many tricks, has he? Very nice stories. Thank you, Cornish Kate. Kate Cornish. Is that her full name, by the way? Cornishish Kate Kate Cornish is that her full name

by the way Cornish Kate Kate Cornish because that's what you've been saying yeah I think it's it may be in the same vein as Terry Terry Terry Tops oh she's remixed her own name or maybe she's the devil themself because she did say I could use this on the podcast for three years and I'd be really good at sewing in the meantime. So should we score? Yeah, let's score. Okay, first up then, Supernatural. Well, I was impressed just by the long-fingered blue ghost who woke me up. Yeah, weren't we all?

It's those kind of specific details, long fingers and an aristocratic bearing. And that's how you identify Skellington. Long-nosed person, not going to be able to work that out from the skeleton. No. How intelligent was his nose? It's not important. He hasn't got one. He's a skull.

But the fingers, yes. The fingers never lie. So that was good. And then, oh, just bucket loads of ghosts as we went. Couple of kids picking flowers. Molto devil. A couple of covens, or at least two different perspectives on the same coven Rashomon style

a load of demons that will only listen to chilled out beats on the harp yeah lo-fi harp beats to study and relax to yes exactly

a ghostly hare two different ghostly hares two different ghostly hares one of them attracting a horse the other one fighting a horse off a cliff oh yeah that was

good it's i had something very python-esque to me like it suddenly cut to a wide shot and a man on a horse just yeah i think i think though it's gonna have to be a four because it will be poor accounting practice for me to allow you to count a different version of the same rabbit and the same devil and the same coven multiple times, because I'm sorry, they can't both have happened, can they? They're mutually exclusive. So to avoid an audit. Yeah, right. To avoid getting in trouble with the auditors,

I think I'm going to have to make it a four. All right, then. That's fair enough. That's sound practice. Okay, then. C's fair enough. That's sound practice. Okay, then. Category the second, naming. Naming. Well, we're in Cornwall where all the words be weird.

And the Cornish language is very interesting and different. And so the place names seem strange to English ears. Blue Valley. Blue Valley. Blue Island, rather. Trove, a.k.a. Tree Woof. La Morna. La Morna.

Fogoo. Fogow? Yeah, however that word is pronounced. Looking forward to the emails on that. The Militans. The Militans. In Pengasic Castle. Yeah, good names.

Good, solid names. Out of three. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What about Terry T.J. Terry Tops? Oh, wait, wait, wait. Terry Tops. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What about Terry, TJ Terry Tops? Oh, wait, wait, wait. Terry Tops. Yeah, that is a good name. But it's also a terrible name

for the devil and the worst name I've ever heard, really. Terry Tops. He'll probably do your kitchen for a knockdown price. Well, no, everyone thinks he does the kitchen

because he's called Terry Tops. He's actually an electrician. He doesn't do anything. I don't do work surfaces. No. All right that's a disappointment i'll make it a four then oh duffy even manages to um when she reveals that she knows the the devil's name she does it as a rhyme as a sort of a rap because she says oh i think your name is your name lucifer is that no is your name beelzebub no you're coming with me and she goes stop stop you can't deny your name is Terry Topp that's one of the best rap songs I've ever heard and you've had

some rap from the 90s I've heard you rapping on this podcast and nothing else okay category three then a treasure tree woof of stories oh very nice yes it was it was a-woof of stories. Oh, very nice. Yes. It was a lovely little bundle of stories for which we are grateful to Cornish Kate. Yes, oh God, you've kind of put me in a tricky position there, because if I want to score this low, it's not you I'm scoring low, it's Kate.

And it will be a judgement on her tastes. I can't do that, can I? I can't do it to Kate. I can deny you a five, but how could I deny a listener a five? It's got to be a five. Yes. Nice one. Nice one.

And the final category, category four, the pitter patter of slimy feet. Except they're not slimy. They're slimy in the sense they're evil. Probably actually quite dry because they're hooves. They're hooves. Yes. Hoven clews. Hoven clews. Hoven clews?

Yes, that's what I said. Isn't that just down the road from Blue Island? Those little clip-clops of the devil themselves. Well, that was a sinister noise in the story. And really, it should have warned her that something was up. She should have picked up on that sooner, yes. So how frequently do the hooves play a role in the story? There's two real devils here.

Terry Topps, the tall man sat on a rock later on. Hotel DJ Terry Topps and the guy who sits on a rock before a house burns down. Near a house that burns down. Some people might say that evidence is circumstantial. Some would say circumstantial. I would certainly say circumstantial. Yeah. I don't think I would say circumstantial.

Yes, the devils. But they, if we're going for the pitter-patter of slimy hooves. Slimy meaning evil, not actually literally slimy. Because that'd be more like squitter-atter or something than a pitter passer. There are probably four hooves. Yeah, if we're playing the pub sign game, it would be a four. And we are, so it is. Pub sign game update, by the way, someone made a very good point on the Discord.

What if the subject of the sign in the image on the sign is sat at a table? Well, then you've got the legs of the table and possibly the legs of the chair they are sat upon. Exactly. That is some Premier League pub sign gaming. That could be some seven or eight extra legs. That is a great score.

I feel like I was tricked, much like poor Duffy. Yes, but I've got three years of this, and I intend to milk it before I'm taken to hell. Producing bucket loads of revolting cream. The worst liquid. See, loads of them. Loads of them. Thanks, Kate. Absolutely loads of taros of them thanks kate absolutely loads of terrors thanks kate and you mentioned the discord there james people could join that if they go to patreon.com forward slash lawmen pod we're going to be doing a live gig at the bill murray pub in london's london that's on

the 18th of august 2024 we will endeavor to live stream it as well but it would be lovely to see you law folk in person. Join us! Oh, and if you got to the end of this and you want to hear more of our voices, check out the Three Ravens podcast. Thank you very much to Joe for editing this. Thank you very much for listening. Thank you very much to all the law folk that already

support us on patreon.com forward slash lawmen pod. And thank you to you, James. Thanks, actually. support us on patreon.com forward slash lawmen pod and thank you to you james thanks actually do the stories in this book start out savory and then end up sweet just a question just a pasty based question