Loremen Podcast - Xmas Pig with Danny Robins!

Episode Date: December 25, 2023

As a special Xmas treat, we're joined by the spooky podmaster himself - Danny Robins. The Loreboys introduce Mr. Uncanny to a couple of chilling, pig-tinged tales! Are you Team Xmas or Team Pig? This episode is a lot of fun, and you can listen to exclusive behind-the-scenes stuff by joining us at www.patreon.com/loremenpod

This is just a little snippet. James, do you want to explain what a Christmas pig is? Well, I'll have a go. So, Danny, Christmas pig has become a sort of phenomenon. It feels embarrassing explaining it. It's like when one went to university, and I'm talking from my direct experience, I tried to explain my nickname and how it had come to be

and try and get other people to buy into it. So, basically, what happened? We did some Christmas specials. Before you move on, James, what was the nickname that you were trying to get people to buy into it. So basically what happened, we did some Christmas specials. Before you move on, James, what was the nickname that you were trying to get people to buy into? Shaft. Okay, no, no. You're damn right.

It was difficult. So yeah, we did Christmas specials of Lawmen re-Jesus because it's his birthday and stuff. And then I think basically it span off from that because there was the story of putting the demons into the pigs and sending the pigs off the cliff which i think it turned out wasn't even jesus it was paul or someone is that one of the sequels and then it became yeah let's do some pig related folklore and then i think there was some around christmas time the um there's some ghost pigs that go across.

Is it Dorset or somewhere? Looking for a dead os, dead os. And the Swedes send Christmas cards with pictures of pigs on them. Do they? For some reason, yeah. The Swedes have a very pig-heavy Christmas, really. Ham is their main Christmas dish. Ham is their turkey.

Yeah, indeed. Do they do it on the 25th or is it? No, no, they celebrate on Christmas Eve. Yeah. And Swedish Christmas is definitely a bit different. Their version of Santa Claus is a bit more scary, actually. They have this character called Tompton, who is, he's kind of morphed into a kind of traditional father Christmas figure, but at heart in his kind of folkloric origins, he's like a chief elf. and he has these elves called the Tomtenisa who help him and basically if you don't leave out

porridge for them the night they come then they will harm your animals. So it's a kind of much more brutal version of the Santa Claus story. Wowzers. Well, a very merry Swedish Christmas pig to you. I think Alistair, you've got some tales for us today, haven't you? I've got

some tales. First off, let me say Christmas pig to you, Danny. Thank you's you've got some tales for us today haven't you i've got some tales first off let me say christmas pig to you danny thank you so much for for coming back on the pod i know that many of our listeners are members of the uncanny community which i i was just saying to james i've just noticed sounds like a euphemism for them being ghosts we have very good relationships with the uncanny community you. You've joined the Uncanny community. But no, they are living people, mostly. Congratulations on the TV series of Uncanny, which I really enjoyed. I have to say, the highlight for me in episode one is Jeff Charlton, the guy who deals with psychotropic mould. Yeah, the mould expert.

He's an absolutely incredible character. I think there's spin-off potential. Who knew mould could be so fascinating? Yeah, yeah. It is. I want to see just a show about one geezer who defeats mould. I mean, joking aside, he is doing some quite powerful stuff at the moment. I mean, you know, the way the world has gone

and the kind of horrible, cruel, chaotic times we live in, there's a lot of people living in houses where they have horrific mould situations that are making them ill and even kind of sometimes contributing towards death. And nobody cares. You know, the council aren't helping and government aren't helping. And so Geoff is out there kind of fighting this crusade

trying to sort of prove that it's a dangerous situation. Fantastic guy. So thank you very much for coming back on the pod. And you, like me, we're from the northeast of England. So I wanted to look for something pig related, something northern related. A Geordie pig. Right.

A Geordie pig. A little Geordie pig. A nice little round pig. I haven something northern-related. A Geordie pig, right. A Geordie pig. A little Geordie pig, a nice little round pig. I haven't quite managed it. But I will take you briefly to the village of Morpeth, where I'm going to start my little Christmas pig quiz. Morpeth is a village, it's some way north of Newcastle. Morpeth Market, listeners might remember, appeared in The Legend of the Fairy Ointment.

But, and I'm asking both of you, James, Danny, what would I mean if I said, he's driving his swine to morpeth market what would that idiom what might that mean oh he's driving his swine to morpeth market is it like a fool's errand is it like is it a famously vegan market so it's like there's no point you're not going to sell your pigs there well it could be that. I thought it might be like carrying coals to Newcastle. Like they've got so many pigs at the market, there's no point taking your pigs.

But that's not how markets work. It's not a really niche local euphemism, is it? It is a really niche local euphemism, but I can see your expression, not the kind you're thinking of. Okay, okay, okay. Oh, that daddy is always driving his swine to Morpeth Market. If you know what I mean. I did that at a Yorkshire accent that time, I think.

Is that there's no market in Morpeth? There is a market in Morpeth, and in fact, it's known for its pigs. Right, it's a market town. I'll give you the answer. Go on. According to the Denham Tracts, he's driving his swine to Morpeth Market. He's spoken of a person who is not only enjoying a nap, but a hearty good snore to boot.

Oh, right. So it's snoring. Oh, right. Because your snoring sounds like a pig. He's driving his swine to Morpeth Market. Yeah. So that's just a little quiz there to start with. 40 oinks and 40 winks.

Whoa. Thank you. Thank you. Works better on paper, if I'm honest. Yeah, it's more of a written down joke. I've got loads of them, don't worry. A hog rest, yeah. So I'm going to take you a little bit further north

to the Cheviots and the Cairngorms. Oh, wow, okay. To tell you the story of the lone airman of Cheviot and the spectre of the boar. So there's a bit of a Christmas pig there. Lovely. And these stories come from Ghosts of the lone airman of Cheviot and the spectre of the boar. So there's a bit of a Christmas pig there. And these stories come from Ghosts of the North Country by Henry Tyner, who was born in Japan. You'll probably know him best as the nephew of Sophus Varming,

the Danish consul to Japan. Ah, yes, of course. Yeah. He's a good writer, a really good writer. And I think he belongs, Danny, on your podcast, you divide people into team sceptic and team believer. I think he is in the I want to believe category. Okay, okay. But he's quite sceptical in his approach to the mysterious.

Okay. He's a Fox Mulder mixed with Dana Scully. Yeah, he's like a Danish Fox Mulder. And he's also very outdoorsy, terribly outdoorsy. The first of his stories takes place in the Cheviots in Northumberland, and he's there hoping to see a pair of snow buntings, specifically on the Cheviot, which is the mountain. Oh, I think it's a hill actually, isn't it?

Again, not a euphemism, I hope. Specifically on the Cheviot. Seeing a pair of snow buntings, if you know what I mean. He's on the Cheviot, which is the hill for which the range is named. And forgive my ignorance, but are snow buntings, if you know what I mean. He's on the Cheviot, which is the hill for which the range is named. And forgive my ignorance, but are snow buntings birds? They are birds, yes. Okay, okay. Not just decoration. I'm no ornithologist, unlike Henry Tyner, who really knows his stuff. He's taking the northern route up the Cheviot, which he regards as more romantic, and he describes the great, grim, dour ravine of the Gorge of Bezel.

And as he's going up the gorge, it's very, very hot, and he has to take off his tweeds, but by the time he reaches the famously flat top of the Cheviot, a driving rain has come down, and it's very, very cloudy and miserably cold, and he has to sort of crouch in a little shelter to eat his damp sandwiches. But when he finishes, as he's about to continue his walk and try and get down as quickly as he can, he hears a sound. And I'm going to quote him directly. It was an eerie moaning cry, which at times rose to a high pitched scream as if someone were in great pain. It was an unusual cry and one that was somehow hardly human.

Now, it could have been a bird, but no, of course it couldn't. Henry Tyner knows all about birds. He knows it's not the cry of any bird. He doesn't think it's the cry of a fox or a vixen. He says, the cry came and went, rising and falling with the wind. He approaches the not-quite-flat plain at the top of Cheviot, full of peat hags, which are exposed bits of peat, and he finds in one of the peat hags...

I think you've set me on a bad course, didn't you? It's not a guy. Very rude things that spring into mind when you're talking about... Exposed bits the peat hags... I think you've set me on a bad course. It's not a guy. Very rude things that spring into mind when you're talking about... Exposed bits of peat. That sounds actionable. I'm not a geologist. I don't know if that's a factually correct description of what a peat hag is. But in one of them, he finds what he believes to be

the wreckage of a World War II aeroplane. A huge pile of rusty wreckage sinking into the peat. And there's an aluminium pipe sticking out of it. And that appears to be what's causing the screech as the wind blows past it or through it. And when is this happening? How long after the war? I think he was in the RAF.

I've been trying to work out. The book was first written in 1974. Okay. So it's recent, relatively. And as he's looking at the wreckage, he turns and sees, quote, the shadowy figure of a man bent over slightly as he faced the wind, which had by now developed into a full gale.

The form was clothed in what looked like a dark leather overall, and the head, head low against the force of the gale, seemed to be covered in a sort of balaclava helmet. Now, it's a bit weird to be at the top of the Cheviot in such weather. So he approaches the figure and the figure backs off. He calls to the figure and calls to the figure and tries to chase the figure down eventually the figure vanishes into the fog when he finally makes it back down he asks the the local farmer if he's been on the hill and the farmer says no and he asks him uh and the farmer says extremely tersely no no need lamens well past and the forecast was no good. Short shrift. So that was, could that have

been the spectre of a German airman? Perhaps the reason he didn't answer was that he doesn't speak English. Yeah. So he didn't know what the shouting meant. Now he has some insight into what might explain that phenomenon. When he was in the Cairngorms, he saw the spectre of the boar. Now, this is not a spectre of a pig. I'm sorry, James. What? It's not a ghost pig. The boar is actually a mountain, the boar of Beidanoch. He saw a ghost mountain?

He saw the spectre of the mountain. A ghost on a mountain, right, right, right. I get it, yeah. How are we spelling boar here? B-O-A-R, yes. Oh, okay. Not a dull person. Okay, okay.

There are two hills in the Cairngorms. There's the Sower of Athol and the Boar of Baedanoch. Apparently, according again to Tyna, the Sow lies in Perthshire, while the Boar is in Invernessshire. So they're sort of next to each other. They are pig-shaped mountains. They're named for pigs. I don't think they are actually the shape of a pig.

Okay. But this is an audio medium, so really the listener can imagine anything they want. So there's two giant pig-shaped mountains. Okay. And he's hunting deer with his stalker, in the hunter's sense of stalker. Kennedy is the stalker's name. Otherwise, it's an extremely friendly relationship

to have with a stalker. Yeah, I think that's mixed messages. We're on the border of Invernessshire and Perthshire, so I imagine there's a little bit of tension there. People are like, ooh, Perthshire sucks, and so on. And they enter the Corrie of Truim, which is, Truim is a burn,

and Corrie is a large hollow in a hill, and the pronunciations there come from the pamphlet, Place Names of the Cairngorms National Park. So if they're wrong, it's not my fault, is it? Blame that pamph. Blame the pamphlet, Place Names of the Cairngorms National Park. So if they're wrong, it's not my fault, is it? Blame that pamph. Blame the pamph. So they're hunting a deer, which I don't approve of. The good news is the deer wins. Don't catch it. So he's passing through the Corrie of Shreem, hoping to get a good view overlooking the boar, which again is not a pig. It's a hill. It's just a hill that looks a bit like a pig if the pig looked like a hill. Wisps of vapor now and again blotted out the contours of the hills around us. I realized we were being watched from above. Then I saw some movement against the backdrop of cloud.

The man was huge. He seemed a monster at least eight feet high. So he and Kennedy are standing there. He looks to Kennedy and Kennedy is ashen and looks terrified. They're staring down over on the boar. They're staring at some kind of giant. Suddenly the phantom disappeared as if he had climbed the ridge and gone over the skyline. It's the old man, said Kennedy. And then he added, we'll have no luck that he. And in fact, they did have no luck. The deer escaped.

They didn't manage to catch their stag. That we glimpsed the phenomenon well known as the spectre of the boar, I have no doubt. Tyner speculates that this might be a phenomenon which I think we would call Brocken-spectre. He doesn't call it that. Or Brocken-gespenst, which is the German word for Brocken-spectre. Are you familiar with that, Danny? I think I've heard about something similar called the grey Man of another mountain. I can't remember the name of now. There's this phenomenon where people see a Grey Man ghost and it's something that appears eerie phenomenon. And the key element, I think, of it is the size, because it's larger than you because it's a shadow. So it gives the impression of this huge figure. So the second story really sounds like a case of a shadow.

Okay, fair enough. Sorry, I found the story of the Grey Man of Ben Macdui, another Scottish mountain. Lots of people have seen this figure. I've seen a video that somebody posts on social media, actually, of them being stalked by this giant figure that looked terrifying. And it is what you're talking about, this strange anomaly of your shadow kind of projecting itself into something massive. It's a really eerie phenomenon. Now, Tyner is not naive. He thinks it was probably a shadow, but it's certainly an eerie phenomenon. Now, Tyner is not naive. He thinks it was probably a shadow, but it's certainly

an eerie encounter. And the question he asks, and the question I ask is, does that explain the lone airman of Cheviot? Does that explain what he saw around the wreckage of that old German plane? And I'm not sure it does. Sounds like he saw a normal sized figure there. So those are my stories for you, my Christmas pig stories. I wanted to choose something hopefully appropriately spooky for you, Danny. No fairies this time. Nothing silly.

So just some slightly chilling encounters. I'm intrigued by extremity. You know, the situations we place ourselves into that generate kind of extreme reactions in our bodies and minds. And then sometimes, you know, you wonder if these things are produced by that extremity that when you when you push yourself to the limits when you're kind of up against you know altitude or cold or that you know kind of you know that

kind of fear that's sometimes generated by just being in a kind of incredibly remote place where there's no safety net where things if things went wrong it would be the end of you you know that idea of third man syndrome that we've talked about on Uncanny, I always feel like it should be renamed third person syndrome now. But so far, I've never seen it referred to that anywhere. But, you know, that idea, you know, people like Shackleton talked about it. I think maybe Scott of the Antarctic as well. The idea of feeling there's another member of your party there, being quite certain that there is another figure there, essentially hallucinating another person with you. And whether it's your brain wanting to bring some comfort to you

in a moment where you are alone and kind of potentially in danger. And the power of a strange noise to freak you out. Yeah, totally. And the way we join the dots, you know, we hear a noise, we see a plane, you know, we're surrounded by rain and fog and mist, whatever, we start to imagine a figure. I think it's not outside the bounds of possibility that you would imagine a figure in that situation.

Or conjure up a balaclava. Yeah. German accent. Yeah. Normally we score our stories. Of course, this is a mini Christmas Pig episode, so we don't have time

to do a full score. But perhaps we could do a little mini score where, I don't know if you remember, Danny, I give a couple of categories and then you and James score them out of five. Oh, yeah.

And you can be as ungenerous or as generous as you like. But usually James drives a hard bargain and tries to negotiate me down. Yeah, I drive as hard a bargain as I would if I was driving my pigs to Morpeth Market. I think. So for my tales, The Loner, Airman of the Cheviot and The Spectre of the Boar, I would like you to grade them in the category of names. How good were the names in the story? I remind you, I dropped in his uncle, Sofas Farming, purely because it's a cool name.

The uncle wasn't involved at all. It sounds like he's farming sofas. Like the vegetable lamb of Tartary. I've got to say, a warm sofa at this time of year would be very welcome some kind of plug-in sofa I remember once being involved in some sort of comedy program on BBC free where we discovered that almost all sofa companies originated from one particular town in Wales I can't remember what it was now there was definitely there's some place in Wales that just had a lot of sofa companies there and it was like it was you you know, it was sofa farming. You know, they were all, there was a place where the sofas were fertile.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the illusion of choice. This is modern capitalism. We think we can choose sofas, but actually they all come from one small Welsh town. We're getting sidetracked. I think there's good names in these stories. I think the names of the stories themselves are sufficient to draw me in and intrigue me. I want to know more.

Yeah, he's a good writer tyner the gorge of bezel it's five it's five please oh you're gonna get a whopping five from me oh thank you thank you very much my second category this is a tricky one is supernatural so essentially what i'm asking is danny robbins king of the ghosts um our ghosts real because you you keep very quiet about that on your podcast so no no one's listening this is just our podcast you can tell the truth our ghosts real oh as a general meta meta or are these ghosts real are the are these ghosts in this particular story i sort of feel like i don't know it's it's it's a really intriguing one i mean i i think i i would lean into the meteorological conditions here, I think. I think that he's

placed himself in a situation where the weather and the conditions are pretty extreme. And I think he knows some of the folkloric origins of the area as well. And certainly his stalker isn't helping, priming him there, if you will. So I think certainly second one, I mean, he himself feels that's down to you know him seeing his own shadow first one i don't know we'll keep that casebook open it feels intriguing the fact that he knows about brock inspectors and yet he's not applying it to that case he he wonders he wonders if it might explain it that's that's what he says but i think he saw something more in that he saw a German gate to the person.

Okay. I feel like we're scoring a sort of philosophical concept here. I'm going to go slap bang in the middle, 2.5. You know, one potential ghost, one definitely not. Well, we don't normally allow decimal places, but hey, it's Christmas pig. It is Christmas pig. For the first time ever, I'll accept 2.5.

And you see what he did there, Danny. He's playing both sides off against each other. On the one hand, ghosts exist. On the other hand, ghosts don't exist. 2.5, exactly in the middle. He won't lean. It's like two mountains. One's shaped like a sceptic

and the other one's shaped like a believer. Yes, exactly. You could shelter in Evelyn Hollow. Or Mount Kieran. These are the kind of names they have in the Cairngorms. Sorry, can I just interrupt one second to say I once saw somebody walking a pig through Rome on a leash. Wow. Yeah, I was pig through Rome on a leash.

Yeah, I was walking through Rome doing my touristy bit with my family and a woman was walking through boldly holding a pig on a lead. A pig on a lead? Yeah. I mean, it astonished me. I can only put it down to some kind of strange hipster affectation. I think it sort of felt like we were walking through a sort of slightly trendy part of Rome and I sort of felt like it was the sort of hipster behaviour you might get up to. Yeah, should we get some more LPs for the record player? Oh yeah. Put some jazz on the record player

and take the pig for a walk, yeah. I'd love to hear from anybody else who's walked a pig though, if there are other people out there who... Listeners, please write in if you've ever walked a pig. Or seen a pig be walked, because come on, we haven't got that cool a bunch of listeners. We haven't got hipster listeners. I'd love to do a case update i'd love to be i'd love to be danny robbins from a case update someone's seen a pig being walked we've got we've got a new witness

pigs get a bad rep don't they mean you know like pigs are are you know a forbidden part of certain religions aren't they you know within islam and with judaism you avoid pigs and i wonder is there some sort of historical reason why pigs are considered to be so problematic well i think it's probably because they're so intelligent because i i saw a documentary about a pig that became a sheepdog and actually helped foil some i mean i'm describing babe the sheep but it's a and it went to the city. I watched it again recently. Have you seen Babe the Sheep Pig as an adult? I watched it recently as well, yeah, yeah.

Because it's a Miller film. It's a George Miller film. And so everyone is Australian, but they've dubbed them all with American accents. So it's very confusing where it's set because it looks like Wales or England. It is Australia, but everybody has an American accent. So it's set because it looks like Wales or England. It is Australia, but everybody has an American accent.

So it's like rural Australia with no hint of Americanism about it in some sort of idyllic version of the 50s, I think. But everyone's got American accents. It's weird.

Well, thank you very much, Danny. And Christmas pig to you. Well, a pleasure. I can see Danny resisting the temptation to say Christmas pig back to us. He'd not attempted at all to say... No, it was a pleasure. I can see Danny resisting the temptation to say Christmas Pig back to us. He'd not attempted at all to say... No, it was a pleasure porking with you.