Mark Bell's Power Project - EP. 264 - Jeff Spencer

Episode Date: October 9, 2019

Dr. Jeff Spencer is a mental performance coach, an 8x Tour De France competitor, and a 1972 Olympic cyclist. Dr. Spencer consults and coaches some of the highest performing individuals on the planet such as Sir Richard Bronson, Tiger Woods, and Lance Armstrong, helping them become more successful in achieving their goals. He is also the host of The Cornerman Podcast. A podcast where he discusses how you can achieve more, and successfully reach your goals. Subscribe to the Podcast on all platforms: ➢https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast ➢SHOP NOW: https://markbellslingshot.com/ Enter Discount code, "POWERPROJECT" at checkout and receive 15% off all Sling Shots FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell Follow The Power Project Podcast ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/MarkBellsPowerProject Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/  Podcast Produced by Andrew Zaragoza ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamandrewz

All right, Natty Professor, Mr. Encima Pants over there. Yep, yep, yep. When you were counting calories and you're doing like bodybuilding prep type stuff, I know that you got to really tighten up and restrict a lot of the foods that you're eating, but were you able to make room for certain treats here and there? Yeah. So like, first off, the Quest Bars and pretty much all of those stuff were great because I didn't have much fat to work with and I needed to get into a good amount of fiber because fiber fills you up. So the cool thing about Quest bars is that, you know me, when I have something like this,

I like to eat a lot of it. But because the Quest bars had like 18 to 22 grams of fiber per bar, it's really, really hard to eat like five. You know what I mean? And most I could usually do was like two. I couldn't really push it more than that, but they fill you up, you know, because the amount of fiber, I don't really know any other bars that have that amount. I know for myself, for some reason, after I have dinner, I always want to finish off the night with something sweet. So Quest Bar, you know, fit into my diet really perfectly. What do you got over there, Andrew? An exclusive deal for our listeners. If you guys are listening right now, this deal's for you. For any of the Quest bars and quest cookies the protein chips and so

much more at questnutrition.com head over there enter promo code mark's quest for 20 off your entire order at questnutrition.com you know it's hard to when you're on a ketogenic diet if you don't really like fish you know if you're not a big fit like i don't mind throwing down some salmon here and there but um to be honest, I'm not going to like eat it every single day. And we know how valuable like EPA and DHA are and perfect keto makes krill oil, which helps solve that problem. You just supplement that and you're good to go. What benefits have you noticed from like EPA and DHA? Cause you're taking it and you're doing jujitsu and you're coming in here, powerlifting and doing everything else, right? Yeah. So it's mainly like, especially with jujitsu, my fingers start to feel like really like sore because of all the grabbing.

And I take that stuff because like it's supposed to help your joints. So collagen, krill oil, all of that stuff is supposed to help out with the joints. So I love taking that stuff for it. Yeah, I like collagen a lot. And again, like I, you know, I like kind of having midnight snacks. So I'll have like a yogurt, but I'll mix the collagen in there. And I have an unflavored collagen. It doesn't change the flavor.

It just adds almost like a little bit of a salt to it. And I really like mixing that in there. So a lot of times I'll mix that up sometimes even with the chocolate MCT powder and get kind of the best of both worlds. And I've been taking the krill oil as well. Andrew, where can people find out more about these products? All right, guys.

Don't let joint pain get in the way of getting jacked and tanned. Head over to perfectketo.com slash powerproject. Use code powerproject and get 15% off all Perfect Keto products. You want to know something, Encima? Yeah, what's up? You want to know what I hate? What do you hate? I hate going to the grocery store.

Well, why? I don't like shopping for one. And number two, there's way too much temptation in there. Okay. So then like how are you supposed to get your groceries? What do you do? Well, for me, I use Piedmontese beef and there's nothing better than coming home and just seeing all that meat sitting there right at my door, right at my front door.

And then I don't have to worry about trying to go to like some fancy butcher and try to find high quality meat. I mean, it's not easy. You know, for me, I live in Davis and I'd have to drive about 30 minutes to Sacramento just to go see a valuable butcher that has good quality meat. That's pretty awesome that it's just literally right there. And it takes all that. It takes time to get good meats. You don't know how long it's been there. It's pretty awesome. Yeah, these are high quality meats that are tender and lean. They taste good. And Piedmontese also gives you a cooking reference guide, which I think is really important because a lot of us just aren't that good at cooking, let's face it. Yeah, I suck. Well, if you don't want temptations, if you don't want to be swayed by the Snickers bar on your way out the grocery store, then check out Piedmontese Beef.

They'll deliver it right to your door. Andrew, where can they find out more about Piedmontese Beef? All right, guys. You can go ahead and just avoid the lame butcher because by the time you get there, he's all upset that you're making him do his job. Just head straight to piedmontese.com. That's P-I-E-D-M-O-N-T-E-S-E.com. Enter the promo code POWERPROJECT. That'll give you 25% off your order along with free two-day shipping on all orders of $99 and above.

All right. Want to give us a quick intro as I get this link sent to him? Yeah. So today we have Dr. Jeff Spencer on. I'm really excited for this because our buddy Ben Pekulski made me aware of Dr. Spencer. And in talking to, we got him on there already? Yeah. That was a cool little chime. In talking with Ben, Ben was so impressed with his work and so impressed with having him on his podcast that Ben just hired him. Ben's like, I just need this guy to be part of my life. I need to get better.

And then Ben, we've had him here, and Ben's got an awesome mindset already. Oh, yeah. So I'm like, damn. Ben's pretty hardcore. He likes to get after it training-wise, guy that's like you know really kills himself with squats and obviously has a mindset of a champion but somebody that always wants to get better and so I listened to Dr. Spencer on Ben's podcast and just thought he was awesome and I was like wow this could provide a lot of value for our audience as well so we're going to dive in deep with him today talk about that championship championship mindset. Yeah. You know, when you think about champions, too, though, you wonder, or I'm curious, because, like, a lot of individuals, like, seem pretty lopsided.

Like, you look at, like, maybe Tiger Woods or MJ or whatever. They were super, obviously, you know, high level at their sport. But, like, other parts of their life, maybe, you know, MJ had his gambling and Tiger had, you know MJ had his gambling and right right right tiger had it you know so like you wonder like can you? Can use like can you balance it all you make all parts of your life fucking great? Or if you want to be a champion do you kind of have to be a little? Yeah, a couple screws loose. Hmm. There's always gonna be Like some of that polarity right it was gonna be something on the other side of that Hey there is How's always going to be something on the other side of that. There we go. Hey, there he is.

How's it going? Okay, we're unmuted. How's it going? Doing fantastic. I love the props you got there. Oh, yeah, thank you. That's like awesome. Yeah, we're trying to make it look cool over here. Well, you know, illusion is always a good thing, you know?

That's right. Yeah, really excited to have you on the show today and to, you know, dive deep on some of this champion mindset stuff that you've developed over the years. You know, I think it's actually really cool how you have, you've got the ability to where you've broken a lot of this down to where it sounds like very straightforward. Like it sounds like a recipe or it sounds like, you know, two plus two is four. Like this is, you want to be a champion and you follow A, B, and C, not always easy to do. That's correct.

How did you start to, you know, come to, you know, discover some of this? I know you have a background in cycling and things like that as well. Yeah. Well, you know, it's interesting. I've always had a perception and the ability to look at a set of circumstances and say, well, if I see this, then it means that we do that. If you see this, then we do that. And, you know, kind of where the Olympics fit into this is that it's the same thing. You know, if you're going for a PR lift, you know, you're sizing everything up, you know, and you're sort of feeling everything simultaneously to make sure that everything is synchronized and you step into it and you let your preparation execute the lift for you. And so over time, as I was, you know, working with performers in all areas of

business, sports, entertainment, et cetera, it became very clear to me that it wasn't about the discipline. Yeah, there are technical aspects to any discipline, but it's really about the methodology. And I also saw that the way that most people pursue their goals, there's a huge amount of mythology in the whole gold world. And let's get this straight first. It's like goal setting is not goal achievement. There are two different things entirely.

And we're kind of taught to have a big, hairy, audacious goal. Then somehow everything backfills. And if you want it bad enough, you're going to get there. You know, that's part of the mythology of all this. And, you know, it sounds good to the human nature side of us. But, you know, in sounds good to the human nature side of us, but you know, in reality that very rarely delivers and what it does that most people that I know have got massive goal frustration, meaning that they know they're capable of more, but no matter how hard they work, they can't close the gap at a certain point to get to where they know they're

capable of. And to me, it's not that they're incapable or don't have the ability. It's just that the model's not right. And I see this like all the time. So I, through my observation of my 45 years in the advisory space, working with high performers and being one myself, I was able to deconstruct what I saw and create a methodology that represented what it really was. And so it wasn't a marketing gimmick, but it was extracted from my experience in what I was seeing and was able to codify it in a way that demystifies it for people so that they can take charge of where they put their time and effort because they have a model that they can confidently invest their future in. And when that happens and anxiety drops, and you know how it is, it's like when anxiety drops and that's when you're going to PR, you know, when you're too anxious, you just can't do it because there are too many things that interfere with it. So that's kind of the evolution of how I got from the boots on the ground experience to codifying this, to be able to

help other people manifest their talent and live a life of passion and purpose and productivity. Do you think sometimes that people's goals should maybe represent something a little easier? Like maybe sometimes it should represent almost like a checklist and that way you can feel good about the things that you accomplish. Like it might not always be this high overarching goal of like, I want to bench press this amount of weight. Maybe it's more like you just have a goal for that week to go out to dinner with your family. Yeah. There are like goals within goals. You can have a master goal. And then within that master goal, there are sub you know, sub goals that are like goals within goals.

And I think, you know, first and foremost, you know, learning how to achieve goals is the fundamental skill. To me, it's a life fundamental skill, because if you have all these, you know, amazing aspirations that everybody there cries about, oh, my God, isn't that just absolutely amazing? And you're thinking, well, yeah, but how do I actually do this? It's a skill that we can learn. And once we learn it small, then we can make big possible. And to me, big is intentional. It's deliberate. It's supposed to happen. It's not a guess. But if we don't have a vessel to hold that sacred in, then we set ourselves up for massive frustration because at a certain point,

we just can't get there by trying harder. And so I feel that the prime of life skill that we need to learn is goal achievement because everything else will only manifest as a result of our ability to have a model. And then once we have that, then we can invest in our future because we trust ourselves to be able to step into big because we know what it takes to be able to get there. Well, with that being said, you know, a lot of our listeners have like strength goals and a lot of our listeners like have goals of losing a hundred pounds. Right. And when you're trying to lose a hundred pounds, there's a lot of different things that happen that sidetrack you to stopping. Maybe like your diet fell off one day, emotions got off one day and then you just fell off. So when it comes to setting a big goal, how does that structure look? Like,

what are a lot of people missing when they're trying to set these and achieve these large goals? Well, the first thing when we're talking about, you know, any goal, the process in my mind is always the same. And one of the fundamental discoveries of what I was observing that I was doing with my people that helped, you know, 45 people win World Olympic Tour de France and national championships, gold medals, you know. But by the way, I kind of have an aversion and an allergy to silver bronze, you know. So let's get that out of the way first. My DNA is calibrated towards one color and that's gold. And so the fundamental discovery was is that, you know, there's, there's two parts to the goal achievement side. There's the preparation side, which is all about prepping for the goal, right? And then there's the showing up for the

performance side where the actions are executed to achieve the goal. And if we look at that, quite honestly, I mean, most people, they don't prepare well enough. They just think, well, if I just have faith and trust in this, I can show up and make it happen. And, you know, that's a great idea, but that's not the way the champions do it. You know, they prepare well, so they know that they are prepared because they go through a checklist. And, you know, for me, one of the fundamental discoveries is that there's five different steps within preparation that history has revealed that we need to go through. And the first one is we need to get goal clarity.

And for me, there's lots of smart goals out there, but smart goals don't mean that they're the right goal. And so I've created a right goal criteria that allows someone to take their goal that they're considering pursuing and run it through the right goal criteria that challenges their assumptions against the reality. And if it isn't the right goal, then you may not want to pursue it at this time. It may be better for another time. There's got to be a vetting of that because when we have the right goal, then it gives us the level of ability to focus on get stuff done. And then it gives us peripheral awareness of things happening around us that may be a better option or a blind side starting to form. And that's why goal clarity is always where it starts. Do we have the right goal?

And the second thing, and be mindful, we're not even pursuing the goal yet. We're just looking at it, you know, should I actually really do this? And then the second step is motive. Like, you know, why am I doing this? And that's important because when we have the right motives, then it gives us a level of drive because we understand why we're in the game. Because with any high aspiration or small aspiration, drive is essential. Because if we don't have drive at a certain point, we stall. Then we forfeit our time and our effort and everything that we put into it. The third kind of step in this is impact. When we look at the impact of our achieved goal on ourselves, our legacy, people, places, and things in the world around us, it gives us a different relationship to the goal itself because we realize that it is a contribution to humanity that is a showcase of how it's

done. And when we have that impact visibility, then it gives us personally a level of purpose that's above and beyond just what's in it for us. You know, it takes on a grander scale, which makes it more possible that we're going to achieve it. And then the fourth element, as we're kind of picking up momentum, we haven't even started pursuing the goal yet. We're just sort of asking the question, should I do this? Is mindset, you know, do I have the mind to do what has to go right when it has to go right, despite my human impulses to run for the exit or get afraid? Can I actually execute that which has to go right? Because in high aspirational

goals, there is a point in time where you got to step into it and it's up to you to kind of turn the pedals, you know? And so we have to really look at that and really be honest about it. And it's up to you to kind of turn the pedals, you know? And so we have to really look at that and really be honest about it. And then the final thing is resources. That's the kind of the fifth item on the list here. I mean, you know, do we really have time and energy to do this? And do we have materials and supplies? Yes or no. How about team? Do I have the right people around me that can help me with those things that I can't do for myself? And, you know, do I have like a flight plan? You know, what does this look like from, you know, point A to point B so that everybody understands where we are and kind of where we're headed with this. And so when we kind of go through these five steps in progression, because

they build upon each other, you know, we have gocus or hyper-focus and peripheral vision. We've got drive. We've got the purpose to do this. We have the courage to step into it because we have the mindset and we have the trust in the process because we've actually vetted the goal. And when we've done that and we have evidence that there's nothing left to do other than push the start button, now start to pursue it, it's a different game. And, you know

the boogeyman inside our head makes us think well if i don't chase it now somebody's going to button line and take it from me yeah it's garbage you know because most people trip and fall either out of the gate or somewhere because they're not like prepared enough and so we got to get the anxiety low because when the anxiety is low, because we have evidence of our readiness, then we can be a great leader because we show up different. We show up confident. Why? Because we know what's coming and we're prepared to engage it. And so therefore we can lead from the front. And that's really important because if we're not sure, then, you know, we got the scent of uncertainty on us and people smell it and it makes them really nervous. And we need to, again, be a beacon of hope. We need to be kind of magnetic in our belief by how we show up. And that's why preparation is really important. So that's one area that I think people really fall down in, and it's like foundational. And so anyhow, that's the preparation side of it. On the performance side, when we're actually pursuing it, it also has five steps. You know, the symmetry of this was what I observed. It wasn't a gizmo that I, you know, crafted from my brain and just made it up. But, you know, the from my brain and just made it up.

But, you know, the first thing that I saw on the performance side, once we're ready, that's kind of like rubber bullets, correct? That's where we're thinking, we're hypothesizing, we have a structure that we are proposing that's going to work, but it hasn't been tested against reality yet. And at a certain point, you know, we got to push the go button. And when we go, the first and most critical thing is to have a start sequence. Meaning that, you know we got to push the go button and when we go the first and most critical thing is to have a start sequence meaning that you know we think oh yeah I'm all prepared with this and somehow I can automatically just get started why I hold on a second here it's like you've got to have a deliberate start sequence that you know and you've rehearsed that will

allow you to get to your first sign of measurable goal progress that I call liftoff so let's say you're you know you're going for PR on the bench, you know, or deadlift. And so there's a point in time where, you know, you got your hands on the bar, man, and you know what's coming. And there has to be a deliberate structure there to make sure that the process starts correctly. It's got to be rehearsed. The team's got to be synchronized. Everybody's got to know what to do. So when that bar comes off the rack, it's freaking go time and everybody knows what they're supposed to do because it's been rehearsed and i see a lot of people don't do that you know they just assume i put all this preparation and so i know what to do hold on a second here you know the start sequence is its own little special place that has to be

cultivated and has to be rehearsed so you get the first confirmation that you know what all this preparation was really for all the right reasons so all of a sudden then your team loves you rehearsed. So you get the first confirmation that, you know what, all this preparation was really for all the right reasons. So all of a sudden then your team loves you because you've demonstrated the ability to be a sound leader and create a great plan and be properly prepared. Now you've got the evidence. So everybody buys into it. How do you, you know, so many people nowadays are really suffering from anxiety to the point where it's very paralyzing for people. Some people can barely get up off their couch some days because they're depressed and they have anxiety. How do you feel like a somebody when you think of yourself as a nobody? How do you

believe in something when you feel like you haven't really achieved anything yet? I just see this a lot in a lot of young men and women of today. I agree. To me, there's evidence. It's like the mind, body, and soul are looking for a crumb of evidence that I can actually do this. And it's not the big, hairy, audacious goal. That's not the confirming moment.

The confirming moment is like, let's say, when you decide to do something. So let's say you want to write a book, and you take out a piece of paper and you do a table of contents for five minutes with a pencil on paper. Hey man, that's evidence that you're at least starting this. So to me, everything needs to be pruned back to a starting point that is evidence that progress is being made. And when we have the right sequence of things that are in order, that when we look at it, our mind, body, and soul testify to, yes, this is doable for me because it has the right steps.

And the distance between the steps isn't intimidating to me. A really great example of that is like if you're watching a football game and Tom Brady gets knocked out of the football game, they put in a backup quarterback and like, what's the first play they do with the backup quarterback? Maybe they run the ball up the middle. Then the next throw is a five or three yard out or like a screen pass where the guy barely has to throw it, right? Now he's proving to himself. He's proving to the team. He's proving to the coach.

He's proving to the fans that, hey, I might actually be suited for this because I've prepared for a long time for this. That's exactly right. So that's a great point, Mark, because we have to make sure that we're doing this in our own pace, in our own time. We're not jumping through everybody else's expectations because when we jump through everybody else's expectations, we're not thinking about what we should be doing for us. And so therefore, ill timing is possible. ill timing is possible. Frustration or the reluctance to step into something or be creative is all part of that. So that couldn't have been more well said. Have you run into anyone that hasn't been able to apply this stuff? It's my belief that everyone possesses the ability to

be a little bit better. What have you seen? I think it is. And there's a lot of evidence there. You know, the boogeyman in all this is human nature because it's interesting, you know, human nature is really a fear-based survival instinct. That's part of our biology. And when we're making our life decisions based upon survival, that's not a prescription for being able to manifest our talents. And so when we kind of look at the paralysis side of this, again, to me, it does go back to the fundamental steps that we need to do. So, for example, like when I was working with you, too, preparing for a world tour, Bono would would run the scales with his voice coach and it's kind of like, Hey, you don't need to do that. You're Bono. But you know, he knows that it's fundamentals. He knows that when he's on stage and something is off that he has to revert back to the fundamentals. So I just, I'm a big fan of hitting straight on the mythology of goal achievement. You know, the mythology is if you want it bad enough, it's going to happen.

Just try harder and stay in the game and believe, believe, believe, and don't give up, you know, remain positive. That's all important. But, you know, it goes back to confidence based upon our ability to execute certain things at a certain time. And that's like why we need a roadmap. So again, we can be confident. You never go on a road trip without a roadmap. You know, it's the same thing, same thing with the goals. I like the big idea

here, like not skipping any steps, like especially motive, right? You know, you have this whole setup for preparation and if you don't have the motive or the drive to actually do something, if you haven't gone through that step to figure if you have that and you just skip and try to go towards that goal, you kind of set yourself up to fail. You know, we talk a lot about like Kobe on this podcast and great basketball players and Kobe is always practicing and doing the simple things. Yeah. I mean, do you like, do you know him personally? I'm assuming. Yeah. Yeah. He's, he's an amazing guy, you know? Yeah. Just, he's, he's, he's incredible. Yeah. It's just like putting in all of that simple work beforehand before trying to just head towards that big goal. It makes so much sense and it makes so much sense why a lot of us aren't able to achieve those goals because we just see

it and we just want to do it. We don't have all these actionable steps to take towards them. Well, we don't have belief in ourself and there's no reason to, because it's like, if you just have this list in front of you, but there's no evidence that you can do it, you don't have belief in yourself. And that's why people sit on the couch because they're reluctant to take a step because they don't know what that is. So if we have a model where we prune everything back to bite-sized pieces that your mind and body and soul, you can look at the list and the sequence and you can say, I can do that. You know, I can bake this cake. You know, I just need to assemble the stuff and these are the steps that I do. And so I think that, you know, to me that the default always is that our mind, body, and soul that kind of make us up, they need some level of evidence

that we can do it. And the evidence that we give the mind, body, and soul for them to buy into us and support us is, are we willing to do the things that have to happen? And to Mark's point, there are certain people that, you see this all the time in sports, is that a person can't believe that doing less is better. They just can't go there. They just can't go there. It means if I do less, I'm giving the advantage to someone else. In my mind, I just can't go there.

And that's complete mythology. But if we just can't go there because our mind is so afraid of giving something up, then that's trouble. And so to me, the default is going back to a model that we can look at and we can point and say, I'm here. And because I'm here, it means this. And because I'm here, I know the next step that's coming. So I'll be ready for the next step when I

get there so that I can avoid preventable problems and I can seize my best opportunities. Without that, if we divert to our mind solely to help us, when we get scared, then we start grasping and looking for magic potions and rabbit's feet and things like that, and that's where things start to spiral down, and then we sit on the couch more because we're afraid of bungling it and I think that there's some some truth to that and so when we have the model and we can locate where we are you know so for example you know I was talking with this guy yesterday you know who he is buddy I can't share his name. And I said, you know,

the reason why you've got kind of fear of success, it's not fear of success. It's that you just don't know the path forward. And so let me show you where you are. So you're here right now on the graphic. And because you're here, it means this. And we just need to do this now. And then after this gets done, then we move kind of to this. And then once we get here, this is what we're going to do. So his anxiety dropped, his confidence increased, and then he was able to see the future before he got there because he had a math that he could follow. To me, that's key. How important is nutrition and exercise in all this? I know you work with a lot of athletes, but you've been doing this for 45 years

and you work with all different kinds of people, people that want to achieve in business and stuff as well. From what you've seen, how important is it that someone adheres to some nutritional guidelines or is it important at all and some exercise? Well, it's absolutely huge because both of those things are foundational to anything. And if we look at the fitness side of it, one thing that we can all agree is that if you want to create a life of value and contribution, you have to be able to push and you have to be confident that you can push.

And if you're not fit, then you kind of don't know where you are and you don't know what your abilities are to stay in the game and sometimes spend some long hours or do some things. And so that's a really important element of confidence. You've got to know that you can do it and stay in the game. And that also is what your teammates will look at and expect of you. You'll be a much better leader. The other thing with the nutrition side of it, for sure. I mean, if you're running on empty and you don't have neurotransmitters and you don't have hormones and you don't have digestive enzymes and all the processes that generate energy, it's really easy to make an amateurish

mental mistake when you're battle fatigued and you're grasping at straws. And that could be catastrophic. You know, one simple amateurish preventable action or thought or statement at the wrong time can collapse the whole process. And so nutrition is, and you also have to repair and recover from day to day and stay in it for the long game. Because you know, the reality of this is, is that it takes a while to get the goal achievement process kind of worked out and when we're kind of building over two or three decades if we blow ourselves up in those two or three decades where we're actually learning the skill then we don't have runway to create a massive legacy because we've used ourself up and people forget about that you know they afraid. If I don't get all this

done tomorrow, then somebody is going to get the advantage. I'm going to be left on the bus stop while the bus leaves town. It doesn't work like that. And, you know, we need to prepare ourselves to get to a point where we develop the competency to create a legacy of value that's of our vision. And we have to have enough runway to add to that because to me, his legacy is important because it validates our time and our effort and us as a person, but it also showcases what we did with our time and talents as a human. And to me, that's a moral obligation that we develop ourselves to be a demonstration to other people what's possible, especially in today's world that can't descend into mediocrity fast enough. So nutrition and fitness are absolutely essential. we're at risk for getting sick at the wrong time, which you can't afford. Amateurish mental errors that are unnecessary, premature breakdown of mind and body, catastrophic health event later

just when we got life figured out. So all I can say is nutrition and fitness should be one of the pillars that are non-negotiable in your quest to create a life of value and contribution. You know, I think you mentioned legacy about seven or eight times now. And on every single podcast that we've done up until this point, I've never heard somebody speak so much about legacy or even really talk about it. Now, how does that fall into a lot of this? Because when we're talking about achievement and setting goals or, you know, becoming the best at something, not many people think about the legacy that they're going to leave. So like, how does that fall in and why is that something that we need to actually be thinking about? Well, I think, you know, there's

natural lifespan development phases that we will be going through. And that's a little bit of a mature concept generally for later, because, you know, as we're growing up in our 20s where we're altruistic about everything in our 30s where we want to create a monument to self and collect all the stuff and in the 40s where we want to create more order in our life to it to be sustainable. And then in the 50s, we look at contribution. So I would say that the conversation early on in the 20s and 30s and 40s is really about learning the art of goal achievement by setting right goals and learning that process so an infrastructure can be created. And what happens at a certain point is that people realize, you know, I've spent a couple of decades all on me, but somehow there's more to this than just me. It's about contribution and mentorship to other people so that they can live lives of fulfillment as evidenced by what they've been able to create for themselves. And to me, that's really important. So I think the conversation of legacy is really key. The real meaning happens a little bit later in our career, maybe in the 40s or so, but certainly like in the 50s. And, you know,

for those people, you know, that are in their 20s, they can't believe that there will be a 40 or 50. I mean, that's like, you know, a lifetime away. But yet, you know, we all kind of get there eventually. And then we kind of look at things in a different light. So I think that it's really important that it be part of the contribution and the thinking about the gift of the future while we're going through it. You know, like with my daughter who we adopted from Columbia 10 years ago at the age of 10, she didn't speak English and we didn't speak Spanish. I don't know how we did it actually. And she came from the most horrific circumstances you can imagine. I mean, it is so horrific. I can't even think about it. And so, you know, for her, you know, I always told her every day when she went

to school, even though she didn't understand the language, I said, don't be average. I wanted her neurology to get used to that, you know, be extraordinary, not average. And so I think in the early phases, we're mentioning things of wisdom to the people that we're working with so that it frames the actions that they take now on a future way of impacting people, places, and things. That's part of, for me, it's our obligation to give back to others to shortcut their process to their big, whatever that is. And so I think, again, if it's all legacy

too soon, it's not immediate. The mindset in our 20s and 30s has a hard time embracing that because biologically, we want all this stuff now. We need to validate ourself and our capacity and show others our value and our worth. And so, just we kind of need to do two simultaneously, sort of, if that makes sense here, because too much too fast, you're going to lose the audience. And I realized that because the first model that I created was called the champion's blueprint, because I know how to create champions in anything. And there is a model that you do. And I realized that, you know, legacy is a big consideration in that, but people need to learn the fundamental skill of goal achievement first to build a legacy on because they have the infrastructure to do it.

And then the legacy play comes from the selection of the goals later being right goals that then make a unique contribution like to humanity. So great question and certainly a very important part of the conversation. Cool. You just said something that really sparked my attention. You said, don't do too much too fast or expect too much too fast. And this, because I just was recently reading an article about, they're basically insinuating setting these amazing big goals is almost too detrimental and instead just develop habits. So where do you like habit forming or like developing keystone habits fit in line with your preparation for goal setting? That's a great question. Well, first and foremost, in my program, the goal achievement roadmap

experience, you know, we go through a lot of that in detail. And I think that the one thing we need to be mindful of here is that if we look at our biology, you know, as a physical entity, you know, we have about 20 or 30 years of functional reserve on board, meaning that we can absorb a lot of abuse for 20 or 30 years, but then it all catches up with us. You know, the danger zone is between the ages of 40 and 60, because that's when all the depletions finally show up. And, you know, the nervous system plays a trick on us. You know, the nervous system doesn't reveal to us everything that's happening because it has a threshold, you know, and there needs to be significant stuff there for the nerve to turn on and make us consciously aware of something. But you can have all this stuff

growing inside of us and all this stuff happening. We don't even know it. So we have the illusion of health. And then what happens after 20 or 30 years of depletion through bad nutrition, poor exercise, sleep deprivation, all the other stuff that goes along with it, with the human mythology, well, it hasn't hurt me so far, therefore I'm healthy. It doesn't mean that at all. The biggest risk I'm telling you is that we have a catastrophic health event or a relationship detonation in our late 40s or early 50s. And I see this all the time. When a person kind of gets to the place where they figured it out, then it's a heart attack, it's a stroke, or it's a nasty divorce that strips away the two or three decades that preceded that. It just wipes it off the face of the earth. the two or three decades that preceded that, it just wipes it off the face of the earth.

And so, you know, as we're going through our 20s and 30s and we're developing confidence and certainty and legacy and we're amassing evidence of our competency and our value to humanity, we need to be aware of this zone of doom because it's out there and nobody escapes it. And so with that being said, that would be the first thing that I would say to that. And many people load themselves up prematurely because they think that if I don't get it now, it's never going to happen or I'm running out of time. And if we run out of time, then we try to compress things into a tighter timeline, which means less sleep, more anxiety, which is our foot on the pro-aging accelerator. And so part of our advisory as working with people is to help them with the pacing of all this. I have a concept,

which is step number 10 in my program that does talk about zone pacing, where we need to go as fast as we can go while maintaining the debt payback day in and day out and not out distancing that which has to happen in sequence to get to where we want to go. So those are the things that I think that are really critical in the idea of pacing. at a certain heart rate normally, and you stay within that heart rate and you're not really trying to go, like you could certainly go above and beyond that, but it's not in your best interest, right? To lay it all out there on the line in, as regards, in regards to training, right? Yeah. And you build up over time, right? Yeah, exactly right. And we just need to know where that is because at a certain point, the effort, you can't pay it back fast enough and you start to dig a hole for yourself and you're either going to get sick or injured, you know? And so without the recovery buffer purposely built into the system, we set ourself up to self-destruct at some point.

And, you know, the hardest thing for any athlete or person to do is to show professional restraint. And to me, the most important word for the prolific achiever is restraint. It's almost stronger in what you say that you won't do than what you accept and you actually end up doing. Restraint is really the name of the game, you know, and knowing like when to back away. I see it all the time. You know, I was in the airport recently after the Boston Marathon and I saw all these people talking about, oh my God, I blew myself up and I'm injured now. And well, how'd that happen? Well, you know, I tried to put 10 months of training into one week before to make sure I

was extra fit to really make this happen. You know, you know the gig, right? And so our job as advisors and as friends and colleagues and peers to people is to share with them a certain level of wisdom that gives them permission to look at the evidence that doing less is actually better. So in any event, something that we certainly need to be mindful of. And we see so many different styles of diet work that it definitely falls in line with what you just said. It's all the way to the point now where we see people that are vegan and people that are carnivore and people that are in between. We see a lot of success with diet and it almost seems like it matters more on what you don't eat versus

what you actually choose to eat. It's like the abstinence away from some of the junk food seems to be the key factor. Yeah, it really is. And again, thank you so much for mentioning the diet side of it. Because, you know, again, we always need to be thinking about the future. Because as we're amassing our competency to make big our normal, and it takes a while to get there. But you can get there with the right advisory and with the right roadmap, you can get there. But there needs to be enough of us left when we get there to be able to now take that and apply it towards amassing a life of value and contribution. And one of the things for me is that I think winning is really important. I think it is.

Winning is really important to me. It's really important that everybody win because number one, when we win, it honors the privilege of possibility that we have through our past through this dimension. our friends, our benefactors, our mentors that gave selflessly to us. And every time we win, you know what that does? That says thank you to them. It's a demonstration of thank you. And why winning is important is because it shows other people it's possible. That's why staying in the game, developing the process and the competency to be a prolific goal achiever, to me, is the name of the game. And that's what my whole life is dedicated to in my program, the Goal Achievement Roadmap.

And then once you're able to achieve your goals consistently, then we can decide, do we want to move up? Do we want to be top of field? Do we want to go to master? Do we want to become a champion? Do we want to become a full potential player? go to master? Do we want to become a champion? Do we want to become a full potential player? But that all rests on our ability to be able to consistently, predictably, and repeatedly achieve our goals. The people that you see winning the most, have they lost the most as well? Not necessarily in the games that they play or in the sport that they're in, but maybe just early on in

life. It sounds like you had a rough upbringing. You mentioned your child had a very rough upbringing and maybe that's what brought you guys together was was something like that. But there's there's struggle. I mean, there has to be right. There's got to be some conflict. There's got to be something kind of nasty thrown into this recipe of success. Sometimes it seems like for some of these athletes and people to go to that next level. it seems like for some of these athletes and people to go to that like next level? Well, I think you develop appreciation because you realize what you don't have, but what's possible. But you also realize that you're the only one that can show up for duty and do the action steps to be able to manifest it. And nobody's going to be there for us at a certain point in life. You know, it's up to us to decide what it is that is of value to us and then be able to have the capacity for stepping into the responsibility

and accepting responsibility for doing the action steps to get there. So, you know, I mean, quite honestly, I mean, I'm sort of embarrassed to say this, but I will, but, you know, even when we adopted our daughter, I was kind of glad when they lost their soccer games because it taught them to suck it up and get back on the field, you know, and it's the first time we've ever publicly admitted that, but, you know, I felt it was in their better interest to be a better team, to be better players, to really learn how to lose appropriately, should we say, to realize that, you know, it really is up to us and we need to honor our talents and we need to be an advocate for ourself to manifest our talents and our skills. I believe that that's an obligation, you know, that we do have. And so, you know, everybody's

going to have their life moment, you know, that rite have. And so, you know, everybody's going to have their life moment, you know, that rite of passage where we're faced with our mortality. And that's a good thing because I think, you know, here's the reality is that if life is too good, there's no reason to change. And if you don't change, then you coast and you get more disabled over time. And so I think these moments of difficulty are, to your point, Mark, are really our blessing. And our job is to kind of cultivate that early rather than later and step in and show people the path forward. I mean, that's part of our mentorship obligation to other people.

Because I know a lot of people are taking a lot of notes on what you're saying right now, like we are right here. And as you were going through the performance aspect of the goal achievement blueprint, we weren't able to finish. We got through step one. So I'm curious about those other steps, the remaining four. Yeah, man. So everybody listen up, man. This is absolutely the secret. So when we've prepared well and we know it because we've vetted the five steps and there's

no ambiguity and we have trust in our preparation and our readiness to pursue the goal and we push the go button, the first thing we want to start, we don't want to trip out of the gate. So we kind of need to name an outcome that we need to achieve. That's a demonstration that the goal achievement process is now up and underway. It's no longer talk, but it's actually real. And then what happens is that once we've had that first success, then we go into step number seven, which you go into detail in my program, it's called the honeymoon. And this is where we're all excited, you know, because we've had this first initial confirmation that we're on our way. And sometimes when we see that, then we think that, okay,

this is going to happen easily, man. We got the right plan. We know what to do. And so people go into this honeymoon euphoria where they start overspending. You see this all the time in startups, you know, they get the first day around, they get all these millions of dollars and they go out and buy $40,000 speakers and Bentleys and all this stuff because they're living as if the goal is already achieved and they're just getting started. And so when we're in the honeymoon phase, there are a couple things here that we need to stay vigilant and not overspend, conserve our resources. But we also have to know one thing about honeymoons is they all wear off. And so when the initial motivation starts to drop,

everybody thinks, ah, bad plan, you know, or bad planning, bad leadership. Well, the secret is, is that honeymoons are supposed to wear off. It's like, it's an evidence sign that you're making progress. So let's make sure that we don't misconstrue loss of motivation as being a bad plan or we can't do it. It's supposed to happen. It's a refocus where now we have to face reality and the corrections that we need to make to move forward. It's an absolutely essential point in the process because when we have that, then we remobilize the team in real time based upon real circumstances because when we're pursuing the goal, you know, it's no longer rubber bullets. It's like live ammo. It's where the blood flows, man. And so this is where we have

a different level of conversation. And then the step number eight here is what I call the daily grind. And the daily grind is where you're rolling the rock up the hill every day and you're saying to yourself, I'm not getting anything close back to what I think I deserve from the time and effort I'm putting into this. This is garbage. I hate this. Well, here's the truth. It's like every plan or goal of any significance

is going to have the daily grind in it. And the daily grind is something that we all have to learn to deal with and we need to overcome. And this is where we're building critical mass as a team because we're getting battle-hardened here together. And the promise of the daily grind is that if you know how to stay in the game and you don't quit, eventually one day you're going to get up in belief and you're going to say, you know what? I can do this. That's why you got to stay in the game. You know, this is where,

if you're going to quit, this is where most people do it. If they don't screw it up by not being properly prepared, or if they don't screw it up by tripping out of the gate, if they don't screw it up by spending too much money in the honeymoon phase, this is your next opportunity to screw it up, which is to prematurely quit when you're building critical mass because you're misinterpreting the circumstances is meaning that you can't do it or a bad plan and you got to get out while you got something left. That is unadulterated BS. It's supposed to happen, but you have to know how to get through it. So you get up one day and belief. Then the next step is once you've got belief,

like, Hey, I have faith. I can achieve my goal, then you got to go from belief to knowing. Knowing is I know with 100% certainty I can achieve my goal. And we do that through a breakout where we set a target for ourself that if we achieve it, this tells us and the team that we can achieve the goal. It's not the goal itself, but it tells the team that we can do this. For example, when I had aspirations of becoming Olympian, when I believed I could do it, when I got up that one day, I spent freaking nine years training. Nine freaking years. I rode my bike to USC back every day. It was a 100-mile round-trip ride.

And then I went to the Velodrome and I trained after that. That was part of what I did. I outlined all my chapters on a little platform that I put on my bike handlebars. And I studied as I went there. And that was, talk about the daily grind. It was nine years of that, you know, but I got up one day, I'm going to do this. I can actually do this. And so I needed to prove it to myself in step number nine, breakout. And I knew that I had to have a breakout performance that told me that I could do it. And that's, I needed to go to a national championship and I needed to beat the

national champion or I needed to be an Olympian. Because if I could do that, that means I could become an Olympian. Didn't make me one, but it said I could do it. And this is a really important milestone because once you know you can do it, it's game over. You know what it's like when you get up and you know you can do it. All of a sudden it's over. You're just not there yet. It's going to take some time if you don't screw it up. But that's what happened. And so I went to the national championship. I only had $15. I only had enough money to get a one-way flight to the national championship, but I showed up. I didn't know where I was going to stay. So I went to the velodrome and kind of looked around and I saw some friends that surprised me by coming up and saying hello.

And so they were in a VW van and I said, you know what, that's where I'm, that's my hotel for the next six days. You know, everybody else is in the, you know, four seasons, you know, the double tree and they're thinking, well, I need to be in the double tree and I need to be in my motor coach, $300,000 motor coach to be ready to perform. And so, I was fogging up the windows by myself in the VW van and I kind of liked it. You know why? Because I felt I had the advantage because I wasn't putting my belief that I could become an Olympian in the hotel. It was up to me to find a way to step up and get it done when it needed to get done. I felt these guys were kind of disarming themselves. And so in the national championship, I beat the

national champion in the first round in the semifinals. And so when I beat the national champion I knew I could do it and so I went on to get the bronze medal but you know I left home I went home with the gold medal in my mind because I proved to myself

that I could do it by the way I didn't have money to get back home to LA so I bummed a ride in a camper and I went with my bike and my bike bag back to LA in the camper. But I had the gold medal. I knew I could do it. And so I spent the next nine months training, which is step number 10, finishing the job. It's called finish. And this is where you have zone pacing to make sure that you don't go too fast or too slow towards the finish line. Because if you don't cross the

finish line, you don't win. And so during those nine months when everybody else is over-training, getting sick and injured and freaking out, I pulled back and I found the zone pace and I built my capacity and I won the Olympic trials and I went to the Olympics and I have a lot of people to thank and honor for that. So, you know, those are the 10 steps. The champion's golden rule, first you prepare, then you perform. That's how you do it. And if you can locate where you are in the 10 steps, then it tells you what to do to finish the step, achieve the outcome. You're able to peek into the future and you know what's coming. So you're not going to be blindsided by something. You're going to conserve your time and

energy. You're going to mobilize your team. You're going to not make the mistake in the honeymoon phase. You're going to know how to get through the data grind when everybody else is ready to quit. You're going to keep everybody together until you get the belief. You're going to have your breakout performance. Then when you have that, everybody knows they can do it. You zone pace to the finish line and that's how you get greatness. Then you choose your next goal and you kind of run it through the model, you know, time and time again. Is it still emotional to you? Because maybe there was like a tiny bit of self-doubt and you maybe like you proved something to yourself. You're like, I'm going to do it this way. And when you actually achieved it, you're like, holy shit. Like I, I came

through, this is unbelievable. Well, you know, it's like, you know, when I had my belief moment at the end of the daily grind, you know, cycling is so fricking painful because it's so hard. So long, it's really painful. And so when I had belief and, you know, I beat the national championship, I knew I was going to do it. I mean, you know, the sensitivity I have towards this is the fact that, you know, I was a welfare kid and look, no one wins alone. It's not possible, you know, without the genetics, without my, uh, team, without my friends, uh, without the, uh, you know, mentor that gave me everything without any expectation of anything in return,

uh, that people benefactors that gave me everything without any expectation of anything in return, that people, benefactors that gave me a piece of equipment, maybe $25. At that time, that was a lot of money. It would have never happened. So the bigger lesson here is that I spent 10 years wanting to put on the official Olympic t-shirt that said USA Olympic team. That was my logo. I had a little plan that I had for myself between the ages of 11 and 21 that had the t-shirt on it that said USA Olympic team. That was my logo. I looked at that every day. That was my target. That's what I wanted. And then when I got the t-shirt, I couldn't put it on because I felt that, you know, I thought this was to showcase me and how good it would feel to be in it. But I realized that putting the T-shirt on, it wasn't for me to showcase me.

It was a way to say thank you to the people that helped me because there's no way that it could have happened without other people. Nobody wins alone. And so also wearing the T-shirt would be a call to other people. Nobody wins alone. And so also wearing the t-shirt would be a call to other people to raise their game and go for bigger. And don't be afraid of it. Embrace it. So again, Olympics, profound moment for me. And it's easy to shed some tears when you understand that we all have a lot to give each other. And the part of our job is to be that support system and to believe in people when sometimes they don't believe in themselves.

They just need that little push to get beyond that threshold. And all of a sudden, then they go on all thrusters and it's like game on. And I feel like that's part of our job is colleagues and collaborators with each other is to step into that role. As a matter of fact, I think it's the most important decision we can make every day. How are we going to show up for others? We're going to show up a service and call them to a higher game and be there to support them.

I think that's, you know, the choice that we kind of need to make every day. What is somebody's big? You keep mentioning kind of this big, it's like big dreams, big aspiration, big goals. Yeah, that's a great question, Mark. Yeah, whatever they're called to, you know, if they're called to, talking with the guy yesterday, you know, that's called to, you know, revolutionize how physical assessments are done. And that's as big, you know, and I encourage him for that. With someone this morning, you know, they have this worldwide movement that they're putting together. That's their big, you know, when we adopted our daughter that came to the U.S.,

she didn't speak English. She didn't have school. She had parasitic ridden body, PTSD, ADHD, every risk factor off the scale, 20 on a scale of 10. Worst of the worst, man. You know, it's like our big for her, you know, the target was, is that, you know, we want her to be able to finish college. That's our big ambition. And here we are 10 years later, and she went from a kid that didn't speak Spanish, didn't speak one word of English 10 years ago, to now, you know, being a scholarship student, a scholarship student. And so I think what's really critical is that we make our big the product of what our revelation is for ourself, not based upon what other people are doing. And we can have multiple bigs. Our big now may not be our big later. We may have a 10x big

at that time. So we need to be really clear and support each other in that you're big, whatever that is to you is what I'm going to support because only you know what that is. And I want to say something here that's really important is that, you know, there's only one of us in all of creation. And I think about that and there are 7 billion people this planet right now. And there's like only one of me. There's only one of you. And that uniquely qualifies us to do some extraordinary things because nobody sees life like we do. Nobody has our combination. process that allows us to step into those gifts that we're given about what the possibilities are for us and not discard them as being too big, but to look at them as possible. What do you think the biggest myth is about goals? Do you think that it's like reasonable to think like if we just, you know, follow the blueprint and we follow this information, we'll just get there? Yeah. Well, to me, the biggest myth, unquestionably, without any doubt,

is the belief that goal setting assures goal achievement. It doesn't. Total mythology. The goal is the goal. It's the target. you know, and it sits, you know, out there in space somewhere. But then there's us here and the distance between us and the goal itself. And the bigger question, how do we get from where we are to where we want to go? And what does that look like? And let's say we could take a process that would take somebody 10 years and let's say we could do it in two, you know, would anybody be interested? And so when we have a roadmap that can be trusted, because we have historic evidence of its accuracy, and it's got a track record,

then we have something that we can put our confidence and faith into that can progressively start to manifest a life of value, productivity, purpose, and also prosperity. Goal selection is not goal achievement. I'm curious about this because a few days ago on a podcast, we were talking about like goal setting and goal achievement and shifting your goals. Like you just mentioned that like your goals change and they shift. Now, when it comes down to like your goal achievement blueprint, you know, a lot of individuals, we have these goals and we're on that daily grind and we're continuing to go at it and go at it and go at it. For some people ends up happening in a few years. For some people, it's been decades. When does one come to a point when they should shift or move on to something else? Do you have any ideas of what people should think about when it comes to that? as champions, meaning that they can produce significant outcomes predictably, is that

the goal is only the goal. But I learned this lesson. I was a very well-known art glass sculptor. That's part of me most people don't know about. And I showed my art in the best galleries in New York City. And the lesson here that's answering the question here is that when I would be working on a piece in a sculpture, certain things would occur to me in the process of creating the sculpture that would be an option that I could take that would be different than what I originally intended. But I think that

those moments are gifts. And anytime something shows up as a possibility to adjust and alter the goal as it was declared originally, every champion always looks at that as a gift of a potential better option. And when they look at it and recognize that it actually enables something to become bigger and better than originally intended. Then they always shift and they always adjust and adapt and embrace the better option. And that's a skill that challenges what we're taught about goals. Like once you have your goal, you stay fixed on it, you stay rigid, you don't deviate until it's done. You stay hyper-focused. don't deviate until it's done. You stay hyper-focused. And hyper-focus can blindside us because we may not see things in the periphery that are forming that are better options that we

don't see if we're too hyper-focused. Or there's a blind side that can take us out of the game that we're not aware of because we're hyper-focused. So when we began our conversation, I said that when we have goal clarity, it gives us gocus, which is a trademarked word called goal focus, where we can hyper-focus on getting stuff done to advance towards goal completion, but it also gives a simultaneous peripheral vision to see better options show up, to adjust what we're doing to a bigger better that we couldn't give ourselves. And we have to be really clear on this because in today's vernacular, in the mythology of goal achievement, when we talk about adjusting things, people say, well, don't do that. And if we do, we have to make sure that we don't misconstrue that

as being unable to set a goal and maintain the goal and stay committed to the goal. It's a whole different thing because a lot of people think, well, I can't do that because if it does, it means I can't trust my abilities as a leader because I'm always changing. People have to get used to the idea that, look, all the great stuff that's ever happened is almost like an accident that shows up. But it's because like Einstein considered a possibility that was gifted to him about the theory of relativity. He didn't say, I'm going to invent the theory of relativity. Something showed up one day, there was a possibility. And because he had peripheral vision, he could accept and look at and consider that. It changed all of humanity because of that.

It's the same thing with art. I mean, we've all done it, right? You look at your training program, all of a sudden something occurs to you. Hey, I can make this better. I can eliminate a step here. And so these revelations are something that we need to account for and have a presence of being to be able to receive as they show up. And so I think that's a critical distinction between those people that can manifest a great life and those that can and don't.

Rigidity. Everyone that you ever worked with, have they always had somebody in their life as every person you've worked with had somebody like,, like, like your, uh, like your mentor, uh, John Burton has nearly everyone had like a mom or a grandparent or an aunt or uncle, like, cause everyone had like, cause it's really easy to focus in on the negative and say, Oh man, you know, I grew up with alcoholic parents or I, I had this, this and this. Yeah. Right. Um, but you know, some people do, yeah. But some people have almost like these angels that descend from the sky, it seems like, right?

Yeah, absolutely. And actually, even the most prolific achievers of our era, they still have those people and they seek them out. Because we all have blind spots and we need people to point the blind spots out to us. We don't need to step on the mind and blow ourselves up to recognize that it was there. So the answer to that is yes. And a really important part of this is that we need to be available to be that person to people and say that one thing that they need to hear at that critical moment where they turn left instead of right that revolutionizes their life. And as we are growing up through adolescence and even pre-adolescence, I feel that the

conversation can't happen early enough about the structure. You know, I know people that are teaching their kids my roadmap and the kids are, you know, one person made a mobile out of the 10 steps of my roadmap where the kid's now putting his hands on the mobile, you know, while he's in the crib and pushing it around and things like that. So I would say that more specifically to this, Mark, is that number one, none of us ever get to a point of self-sufficiency where we don't need another pairs of eyes or another heart and soul to take a look at what we're considering and what we're thinking. We need to support that. We need to engage it. We need to solicit it. We need to

be part of that, like for other people, because that's really part of life's own reward that we can't put a monetary value on that creates a level of fulfillment in us that is part of the rich experience that we should be living as people why do you think this uh guy came into your life this uh mentor john burton at such a young age like what was the circumstances so? So here's the way this, this went down is that, you know, I was always an athletic kid, anything involved, throwing anything, jumping over something, bashing into someone, I was all for it. And so after a high school football scrimmage, I was walking down the street in my neighborhood and one of my neighbors had

his front door open. And so I went to say hello. And he was actually showing a film to some people in the neighborhood. One of my neighbors had his front door open. And so I went to say hello. And he was actually showing a film to some people in the neighborhood. And I was kind of beat up from the scrimmage. And he said, would you like to join us? I'm showing a film that I produced on this gentleman who developed a new form of art glass sculpture. Would you be interested? And my dad was an artist. So, yeah, I was interested.

So I sat down and I watched it. And in one point in the mill, the movie that John Burton won an Emmy for it said, I haven't yet found a person that I can pass on my secrets to. And I knew when I heard that in the movie that it was me and don't ask me why. I mean, it was, where did that come from? And I, I told my neighbor about this, uh, you know, presence and he said, well, why don't we call him up on the phone right now? And I go, oh man, are you kidding me? And so he called up John Burton. Um, and at the time John was, uh, 76 and I was 18. So kind of the Victorian versus the, you know, the 18 year old.

And so he came on in this very thick English accent. He said, well, I told him I just saw this and I kind of felt, you know, it was me. And he said, well, you're the guy I've been waiting for. And he said, let's get started. Can you come to Santa Barbara this weekend for us to get started? And so I did. And this is life pivotal for me because when I was helping him create his glass masterpieces, and he was literally a Renaissance man.

He was a Shakespearean actor. He was a poet. He was an author. He was a university trained metallurgist. He was a World War I war correspondent. I mean, this guy was truly a renaissance man and what was critical for me and there's an important lesson here is that during our lunch breaks he would put me to work trimming and cleaning up his orchid garden while he watched but the deal was

is that during that hour he would play classical music to me. He would read the poets to me. He would read the philosophers to me because he said, I need to fill you up on this stuff. And I had a capacity to absorb that, even though I was an athlete by disposition. And because I came from a welfare family, I didn't have a lot, certainly not a lot of parental involvement, but he gave me something that he saw in me that made a significant difference in me and how I thought and how I look at the world. And I eternally owe him a debt of gratitude for taking the time to share that with me that shaped me in a different way that gave me a different way of looking at things because he took the time to step into my life. And I feel that, you know,

again, we all have that capacity because as I said earlier, the most important decision we can make every day is how we're going to show up. The guy that showed up in the bike shop wearing the t-shirt, USA Olympic team that I saw and I realized at that time I wanted that, he didn't have any idea that he had that impact on me. John was sharing things with me that he felt was important to me that I could absorb that were life transformational. So you never know who's watching and you never know who's listening. So you never know who's watching and you never know who's listening. That's why to me, every day we need to have a purposeful ritual that we go through purposely and we deliberately decide how we're going to show up on behalf of people every day and what it is that we're going to give them because you never know who's listening.

You know, from hearing that, I can picture's listening. You know, from, from hearing that I can picture somebody listening. Actually, there's a guy that, that emailed me a while ago and he was talking about how like he hasn't had anybody in his life that's been, you know, that type of person to him. And because of that, like he just didn't know, like he didn't know what's due. Like, do you think that individuals should be trying to seek this out or just if they don't have that, they should just try to listen every one of the people that I've worked with that plays like a really big game, they're begging to share their information with other people to shortcut their learning to bigger. They're begging for it. It's just that nobody's coming and knocking. And I think a lot of times we think that, you know, why would anybody want to listen

to me? So therefore I'm not going to reach out because I don't want to bother them or look stupid. People are begging for that. And I just am really going to encourage everybody that to find somebody and kind of go on the offense and make a connection with somebody so that they realize that you are looking for guidance and that you're respectful of their time and that you're requesting an opportunity to have a brief conversation to just get some insight from them because you've admired them from a distance and you believe that they have something to share with you that would be of value to you. People are begging for that. So, you know, again, no one wins alone.

And people are great team players out there that want to be on a team, but the team they want to play on, they want to give their advice to people that can embrace it and cultivate and grow it, not abuse it and take advantage of it. And so I'm going to say, man, play a good offense, you know, listen to podcasts. Those people that you have a gravity towards, reach out to them, you know, don't be afraid, don't be embarrassed. They want that. You know, it's all sometimes like, you know, the most beautiful girl in high school never gets asked out because everybody thinks she's taken. So the same deal, you know. And so, and this will also help us be bold and this will make us be, have self-belief because we're now advocating for self in our bigger future. We got to fight for it.

You know, it's an honorable fight that we all have to, you know, take the challenge on for. Have you come up short on some goals that you've set yourself? Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, there have been many. Thank God. You know, I mean, literally, here's the deal. It's like in baseball. You know, if you're a 300 hitter, you have a great life, which means that, you means that every third try at the bat, if you get a hit, man, it's a beautiful life. So you're going to lose a lot more than you win. The idea is that you want to kind of minimize the risk of something not being able to play itself out by, again, having a model that you can

follow to limit the risks of that. And we discuss some of the trappings and where people set themselves up for failure earlier. And it's usually because they don't prepare well enough. They don't know the five steps. They don't know how to vet it. They don't know the five steps. So they, you know, again, the idea actually what it is and it's it's not something that we should be we should look at the badge of honor that we took a risk on something and we

learned from it. And here's what I also know is that the people that play big, that want to associate with other people and mentor other people, they're only going to mentor those people that have failed. They know that they've learned a valuable lesson and they can listen to sound counsel. Another thing I want to say, if I may, I want to talk about fear for just a second. Is, you know, fear of failure, fear of success.

Here's what you need to know about fear. I want to share something with you that I said to an athlete that was here to win the gold medal. And he was currently leading the world championship, but he was starting to mentally unravel two weeks before the Olympic final. And I said to him, to win the gold medal, you just need to know something about fear. And I said, you don't need to be fear-free to put in the jump necessary to win the gold medal. That's a myth. I said the whole idea of fear is that it's actually your friend because it creates the biologic readiness that you're going to need to put in an extraordinary performance. And whether this is in the locker room, whether it's in the boardroom, it's still the same

for us. When you have sweaty palms, you got dilated pupils, you have increased respiration, your blood pressure goes up, you start to sweat a little bit. That's a sign of biologic readiness. You need that to be able to perform at your best, as we all do, whether it's an intellectual performance or whether it's a physical performance. It's really our friend. And I told him that those people that apparently live fear-free lives live in a constant state of low-grade fear because they don't know the edges of their boxes, because they're not testing themselves against

what they're capable of and where they are in the process. And if you don't know where you are and you don't know your capabilities, then you're going to live in fear forever. I said, those people that appear to be fear-free are living life way too much in the safe zone because they don't even know who they are. As a matter of fact, what I do with my clients, I build purposeful fear into their programs. I actually had an athlete. This guy was capable of a lot, but I knew that he was too invested in a sense of what perfection was. So when we got onto the platform, I got the Olympic bar, put up, you know, three or four 45 pound plates on each side. And I said, okay, I want you to, you know, go do a clean. He couldn't do it. And he looked at me like, are you crazy? I said, okay, I want you to, you know, go do a clean. He couldn't do it. And he looked at me

like, are you crazy? I said, no, you just go over there and let's go. This is your next test. And so he went over and he tried it and he failed. And he came back and he looked at me and I said, what'd you learn? He said, well, what I learned is that I failed and I didn't die. And then he went on to win five consecutive championships and become a legend because he kind of freed himself from the mythology that you need to be fear-free to put in a top performance. And that's critical that we all kind of learn that lesson. And the guy did win the gold medal, by the way. Yeah. Thanks so much for sharing all this today. You have any new books or you want to

direct people towards anything in particular? Yeah. Well, thanks very much. A couple of things, actually. There's actually a 45 minute, a 42 minute video that kind of showcases my goal achievement roadmap model that you can go to and you can look at the structure of it. There are some frameworks and models that I share there. And let me give you the link. It's www.drjeffspencer.com, D-R-J-E-F-F-S-P-E-N-C-E-R.com forward slash roadmap experience. And that will take you there to be able to view that

and show you some other opportunities that are available. Yeah, and another thing that I'm doing, I'm actually putting together a champions club. I'm really excited about this where we have people that have aspirations of playing a big game. I'm going to be forming a club that will be kind of a membership site. And if people would like to get some information on that, they can certainly email me directly at Jeff at drje Jeff Spencer dot com. And I'll be corresponding with you about what the structure of that looks like for consideration. And I guess I'll end this by saying that my Web site, of course, is Dr. Jeff Spencer dot com. There's always new updates and things like that.

And by the way, what I would suggest that you do is that you go to my Web site and there is actually a free opt in gift that I have. You go to my website and there's actually a free opt-in gift that I have. And it's got a white paper that I've created. That's how not to blow it just before you win. It's a 27 page, almost like piece of art. So please take the time to look at that. But I want to finish by saying is that there's always room at the top for the best. Where it's crowded is kind of down with everybody else. And I'm just going to encourage everybody, because there's only one

of you in all the creation, to really invest in your bigger future, to create a life of meaning and value to yourself and showcase it to other people on what's possible. And that's part of our obligation. And I just want to encourage you to do that in any way I can support you. Please reach out to me and any way I can support you, I would be more than happy to do it. And once again, you know, Mark, thanks again for the, just an amazing opportunity here to have this just absolutely sensational conversation. Yeah. Thank you so much. We really appreciate it. And you mentioned Tiger Woods and we were talking about Tiger Woods and how prolific he's been in his career. I actually

think that him coming back is, is probably the most staggering thing I've ever seen in the history of sport due to like the way that he came back, uh, the emotional side of things, the lifestyle side of things, the injuries that he's had. It's really unbelievable. A question that we had, though, was can you be that next level person and still be, I guess, like maybe not. Can you be that high level person and not have some demons or not have some polarity going on where you have some other parts of your, your mindset that maybe don't match up with society. Well, I think that that's true. And that's the reason why I think it's really important to have a great mentor early in the process, because if you have a mentor early

in the process that really understands what the minefield is like and how to avoid the preventable problems where the conversation happens early enough so we have an awareness of what's possible later that can really hurt us. When we get to the point where those things start to surface, you've already had a pre-conversation about it. And then you can make the adjustments to avoid the catastrophic effects of that. I think extraordinary comes from people that are willing to step into what their potentials and capacities really are. And sometimes prolific achievers do have idiosyncrasies that are part of what they absorb from their developmental environment that they grew up in

that don't serve them well. Like my daughter, for sure. She was raised as a criminal, you know, and she didn't ask for that, you know, in the mental and physical abuse and every sense of the word, as you can imagine. She didn't ask for that. You know, at the age of four, that's where all that started, you know, until we adopted at the age of 10. And so, there are things that we don't ask for that are part of what we absorb from the environment that we find ourselves in, you know? And we have to be really clear about one thing is that like the true us is not the impulsive us. And a lot of times people say, well, that's just the way I am. Well, no, hold on a second. That's the way that you were made. That's not the real you. That's the imposter that you identified with and that you're responding to life through. But there's a whole other you that's buried in there that we can do an archaeological

dig on and we could draw that to the surface where you can shed these things. And quite honestly, Mark, I mean, that's what my whole life is dedicated to, is to helping people with a framework that allows us to unearth these things and being able to push them aside so that capacity within us can start to manifest. And so for those that are listening here that have these kind of idiosyncrasies that are a little bit awkward and they have some questions and concerns about, you know, that could actually be an asset to you. It's a matter of how that's looked at and what do we do to modify this so that the best version of you can manifest and excel and be a

showcase to other people. I think that's a service that we should all extend to each other. And I'm glad that you brought this up. Great. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. And have a great rest of your day. Thanks, everybody. Onward and upward. That guy's awesome. He is amazing. Absolutely amazing.

He's like a professor. He's got so much information there. Thanks for setting that up, Mark. That was huge. Yeah. You know, I think, you know know we were talking about like tiger woods and then when he was talking there it kind of reminded me of like mike tyson you know mike tyson just never really uh dealt with a lot of the things that he had to deal with uh as a kid and uh just manifested into him you know uh ending up getting in trouble as a juvenile. And then he ended up boxing.

And then he never really examined what was going on and what was wrong. And he never really examined some of the shitty stuff that he went through as a kid. And then it manifested later on in life. And he ended up doing all kinds of things that just, like I said, don't fit really with society. His championship mindset, his quote-unquote killer instinct, that vibe perfectly with boxing and with sport. But then when he was an animal outside the ring, everyone was shocked. They're like, why is he like this? It's like, well, he doesn't know it.

He unfortunately maybe hasn't learned any different because he just had this crap upbringing yeah and it's like didn't his coach hypnotize him to utilize that yeah yeah like he was trained to use that in the ring and like it's it's hard to turn that off you know you don't just you know he mentioned it i think before you don't just like do all of that and then totally switch once you're out of it right so yeah So, yeah. But like he mentioned, like early on, if you can, that's where all the preparedness that he was talking about comes in.

If you can prepare it, if you make sure that whatever that goal is, you set steps up to try and dodge as many minefields as possible. I mean, it makes it easier. He said something awesome. He said, if life is good, I wrote it down, if life is good, there's no reason to change. I actually think it's a lot worse than that.

I think that if life just isn't bad, then people don't change. And I think that's where a lot of people have some low expectations. If they're just not getting, maybe they're gaining some weight, but they're like not, they haven't gone to the doctor and the doctor hasn't been like, you're going to die. So like if life isn't like very intentionally and very obviously getting like worse, then they're not going to change. They're just going to kind of keep doing what they're doing.

No, you have a point. I was just talking to a guy that I work with two weeks ago about this because he was he's been falling off on working out. He used to be like, seriously, all in, all in, all in. But he's been picking up. I think I talked to you about this and picking up other habits. And he's been kind of falling off a bit here and there. And he said something. I was like, no, you don't need to do that. He's like, maybe I kind of just need to hit rock bottom with this before i realized like shit and i'm exactly i was just like how about instead of hitting rock bottom we just try to set some habits in and make it habitual maybe we don't go all in but we do what we can do um so it is interesting but like some people do maybe i don't believe it but maybe some people have to get to that place where it's just so damn bad that either they keep going and they fuck up or they just turn around and they start changing things. I guess rock bottom would be you like just really, truly realize it for yourself that that is no longer it's just no longer an option, I guess. You know, and you see a lot with drug and alcohol addiction and stuff like that.

alcohol addiction and stuff like that. This whole week, like it seems like, like literally like a lot of our recent podcasts has kind of been, we've been on this topic and then he comes on. It's just funny hearing all the through lines in terms of some of the things that you've been mentioning. It's our quantum list. Yeah.

Well, I was just going to say like, it was, um, it's like a really good, um, contrast to what like Charlie rocket was saying, you know,

cause Charlie rocket's like, don't say it's going to be a grind. So it's going to be easy. You're going to have fun. Yeah. You're going to put in the work, but let's make it fun. And then Jeff Spencer is just like,

Oh yeah, I was studying while writing a hundred miles a day for school for nine years straight. I had to grind. And I mean, you can get so much motivation from both. I just, man,

this guy said some amazing things. Like what you just said, like kind of like success or whatever. Like when you're winning, you tend to coast. Right. Yep. So it just, I don't know. It just makes you think like when you do set something up and you fail, it's just setting you up for something even bigger.

Yeah. It's so cool. Yeah. I thought it was, I thought it was great. It was really good. Really awesome to have him on the show. And we got another show coming up here. Yeah.

We're just going to keep going all day. All day long. Yeah. So by the time people hear and see this, they have something to look forward to tomorrow with, I know him as Alpha M, YouTuber. I'm trying to remember his actual name. Aaron Marino.

Aaron Marino, my bad. Yeah, yeah. So that's what you guys have to look forward to on the next episode i really love that jeff spencer talked about like recovery too you know because he while you know looking at his life i mean he seems like uh like a maniac in some ways you know like a nine-time tour de France competitor. Like, what, a lunatic, right? Yeah, a lot of pain. A lot of pain. But he did talk about the importance of while he had that high level of achievement, he works with some high level achievers.

It's all stuff that's built up. And that's really important for people to grasp is to have a good understanding of this doesn't come out of nowhere. You know, people don't turn into LeBron and Kobe and all these other great players that we've seen, Jordan, out of nowhere. It's something that is built for a really long time. And then when you look at the end result and you look at what they achieved, then you just go, how the hell did they do that?

It doesn't make any sense to me. But it's something that has taken a lifelong worth of work. Anyway, strength is never weakness. Weakness is never strength. Catch y'all later.