Mark Bell's Power Project - EP. 282 - Kirian and Jessica Fitzgibbons

Episode Date: November 5, 2019

Kirian Fitzgibbons is the founder and owner of Combat Sports Academy in Dublin, CA. He is the former head coach of the United States Muay Thai National Team, and the striking coach for several Professional MMA, Kickboxing, and Muay Thai champions. Jessica Fitzgibbons is the co-owner of Combat Sports Academy, an ice and indoor hockey competitor, multiple-time CrossFit Games regional qualifier and 2x CrossFit Games qualifier, and elite powerlifter. Subscribe to the Podcast on on Platforms! ➢https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast Visit our sponsors: ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code "POWERPROJECT" at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $99 ➢Perfect Keto: http://perfectketo.com/powerproject Use Code "POWERPROJECT" at checkout for 15% off your order! ➢Quest Nutrition: https://www.questnutrition.com/ Use code "MARKSQUEST" at checkout for 20% of your order! ➢SHOP NOW: https://markbellslingshot.com/ Enter Discount code, "POWERPROJECT" at checkout and receive 15% off all Sling Shots FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell Follow The Power Project Podcast ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/MarkBellsPowerProject Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/  Podcast Produced by Andrew Zaragoza ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamandrewz #PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell

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Quest Bar has like eight grams of fat maybe. So you use Quest Bars as well? I used Quest Bars plus, like one of the thing about Quest Bars is because I messed with a lot of other protein or I guess bars and they tasted like crap. Quest Bars were good and especially on the restrictive diet I had during bodybuilding,

they were something that I really liked to actually eat. Plus the fiber, it was great. It's nice to have something to look forward to. Andrew, what you got? We got a huge selection of Quest Nutrition bars that you guys can get in on. Head over to questnutrition.com, enter Mark's Quest, that's all one word, at checkout for 20% off all these bars and everything they got at questnutrition.com. You know, it's hard to, when you're on a ketogenic diet, if you don't really like fish, you know, if you're not a big fish,

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like I, you know, I like kind of having midnight midnight snacks. So I'll have like a yogurt, but I admit I'll mix the collagen in there and I have an unflavored, unflavored collagen. It doesn't change the, uh, doesn't change the flavor. It just adds almost like a little bit of a salt to it. And I really like mixing that in there. So a lot of times I'll mix that up sometimes even with the chocolate MCT powder and get kind of the best of both worlds. And I've been taking the krill oil as well. Andrew, where can people find out more about these products? All right, guys.

Don't let joint pain get in the way of getting jacked and tanned. Head over to perfectketo.com slash power project. Use code power project and get 15% off all perfect keto products. If I can drive in an armored suburban through the streets of Haiti with an MP5 on my lap, I can fucking text and drive. I'm sorry. Oh, God. I have a difference of opinion, but let's not even go there. 25 years. How many accidents have I been in?

25 years. Sorry. 25 years. Tell me. You went into a fire hydrant. We weren't even on the street. It was in a rental car. I'm pretty sure you were giving me a blowjob at the time. Oh!

I remember correctly. Is this marriage counseling? I'm pretty sure that's what was happening. No. Well, who's got the better memory? No. The guy's certainly not going to forget that one. The fact that she's actually debating whether she's like, well.

Your anniversary? Can I vibe? Your anniversary? He doesn't know that, but. No. Okay. That detail is not going to elude him. Oh, man.

So 25 years is how you make it work. That's right. Something's got to happen, right? Somebody's got to do something. All right. Is that? Oh, these. So 25 years is how you make it work. That's right. Something's got to happen, right? Somebody's got to do something. All right. Oh, these are big. 25 years? 25 years.

That's like quarter century. Wow. No shit. Oh, my God. It's amazing you guys haven't killed yourselves or each other. Have you tried to? No. You guys tried to kill each other?

No. No. No? No. Well, I don't know. You both both know how to fight i did almost give you a heart attack once did what oh that was oh listen stop you really this is this is not the place for that oh wait what happened nothing nothing happened nothing happened it's a very common condition it's uh just called being stressed out by your wife pretty much no no no no it's worse than that no it's when your heart it's when your heart rate gets really accelerated for an extended period of time post-coital activities i thought i was gonna die oh no yeah well, you were going hard, right? Well, listen. You got to do what you got to do.

25 years. I think I understand. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe. Absolutely. I don't know if I'm old enough. That's just two years older than me, too.

That's crazy. I'm 47. 47. How old are you? I'll be 45 in December. Oh, my God. Oh. The only one of us looks like we're in our 40s Am I allowed to swear?

Yeah you can say whatever you want Jessica did you have a fight background Before you guys met? No I met Kieran when I was 19 Oh my god Holy shit That's how this works saying. Holy shit.

That's how this works. I've been wondering. It's like, how'd this guy dupe her into all this, you know? Now I see what's going on. Exactly. Got her when she was young and impressionable. Young, impressionable. She thought I was super hot.

You were super hot. Didn't you have like a mullet or something? Really, motherfucker? Seriously? No. It was like a mullet, right? No, it was Seriously? No. It was like a mullet, right? No, it was not a mullet. A rat tail? No, there was no rat tail.

There was not a rat tail. He had something going. So what was it? It was very renegade. I had long hair. Yeah. What the fuck? What else?

What do you want? A mullet? I could have given you a picture. I had a mullet. We could probably find a picture online. I'm looking for it, but I don't know. That's why I'm just trying to see if you're on the same level as me. That's all. You'll never find a picture. I had a mullet. We could probably find a picture online. I'm looking for it, but I don't know. That's why I'm just trying to see if you're on the same level as me. That's all.

You'll never find a picture of me with a mullet. Oh, man. One of the fighters stole it from the house. Yeah, somebody stole it from the house. Would it be possible to find footage of you breakdancing? Oh, all the time. See, that might happen. All the time.

Have you ever seen this? I've never seen it. Andrew, you got to. There's footage. There's footage. You got to find some footage. Someone just posted on Facebook the Halloween party. Yes. seen this i've never seen it andrew you gotta there's footage you gotta there's footage you gotta find some footage it's posted on facebook the the halloween party yes but you were dressed up as i was dressed up as master toddy and we were break dancing i was break dancing a couple

years ago i was right after my it's one of those things where you start kind of laughing because you're like this is kind of cool and then you're like wait a second he's actually really fucking good that's this is awesome i was i was when i was a kid i was a teenager did you like break dance in the street i did i did i was grandmaster popper did you was my was my that's your rap name that was my no my rap name that was my dance name i was in a crew what are you talking about uh bay area or no i was in the east coast i'm from the east coast oh Oh, East Coast. Used to carry cardboard around. Yeah. That's why we get along.

Yeah. Linoleum, cardboard. East Coast. I didn't know. Yeah. I was born in Hartford, Connecticut. Lived up and down the East Coast. Connecticut?

We can't figure out how to spell it. Do you know how to spell it? It's been a long time. Yeah, see? C-O-N-N-E-T-I-C-E. Ah! Nope. It doesn't make any sense. It's like Connecticut. Connecticut. YeahE Nope. It's like connect.

Connecticket. Yeah, connecticket. It's bad. Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New York, up and down. Massachusetts is hard to say. I can't pronounce that. No, you're not going to even bother to try to spell that one. No.

What have you guys been up to lately? I know that you guys have CSA Combat Sports Academy. And how long have you guys had that gym for? We just had our 10-year anniversary September 9th. God, it seems longer than that. 10 years. 10 years, yeah. Just had our 10-year anniversary.

And constantly expanding, constantly getting bigger. Yeah, we've expanded four times. The first gym was 5,000 square feet, and that included everything, including a little room for CrossFit. We used to say it was 1,000 square feet. It was actually like 900, but 1,000 seemed so much more impressive. Then we expanded to 8,000, and then 12,000, and then 15,000, and then now we're 25,000. Does that put a lot of pressure on you guys?

Sure. Sure. Absolutely. And how involved are you with the actual business side of things, or is that mainly you, Kieran? Mainly Kieran. Yeah, the business side of things is myself and my partner, MJ. Jessica runs the CrossFit program, which is one of four programs in the gym. We have our Krav Maga program.

We have our CrossFit program. We have our MMA program. And then we have our kids program. Jessica runs the CrossFit program. I run the operations of the gym. And then my business partner, MJ, kind of runs the CrossFit program. I run the operations of the gym, and then my business partner, MJ, kind of runs the back line. And, Seema, you've been in there before, but this place, like, certain times of the day,

it's just fucking packed. Yeah. I mean, you see how big the joint is. The place is freaking huge. About how many members do you guys have? Last count, 1,400-plus. Yeah. And then what do you think, like,400 plus. Yeah. And then what do you think was a turning point for you guys?

Was it something in particular with CrossFit? Was it something in particular with fighting? What do you think led to, I mean, that's a lot of people. I think it's the mixture of kind of the concept was always self-defense, fighting, and fitness. Right? And I had run gyms for other people. It's the mixture of kind of the concept was always self-defense fighting and fitness. Right. And I had run gyms for other people. And before I opened CSA, I was I built a similar gym in San Jose, which is still there and doing very successfully. They just wouldn't do CrossFit.

So I did the cardio kickboxing bag classes for fitness. classes for fitness. But the self-defense, the fighting, and the fitness combination, I think the diversity, it helps. Because not everybody wants to do CrossFit. Not everybody. Some people are intimidated by MMA. So when you come to CSA, there's something for everyone. So some people start in a self-defense aspect with Krav Maga, and then they'll move on to MMA, or they'll start with CrossFit, and then they they'll move on to MMA or they'll start with CrossFit and then they'll move to powerlifting or they'll start with, uh, uh, you know, MMA and they'll move to CrossFit. So it, it gives a lot of options. People who normally, when you have just one service, um, if they lose interest or it's not what they thought it would

be, you lose them. I've got three avenues. So our retention rates have always been really high. So I've got members that have been with me for 10 years and, you know, they still pay the same rate and, you know, and as a business, you know, we're also very, you know, customer friendly. So we, you know, we keep our prices low. We don't do any long-term contracts. We've got a 30 day cancellation policy. So it's pretty favorable. If you go to Yelp, there's all five-star reviews for 10 years now. Because there's such a diversity in the gym, you've got powerlifting, you've got CrossFit going on, you've got all kinds of different MMA, all the different aspects of MMA.

Do you feel like there's a lot of accelerated learning that happens underneath this one roof because you have such a wide variety of athletes in there probably sharing information too, right? Yeah. Well, without question, it's a very, and that's probably the one thing that most people get when they walk in the door, it's intimidating, right? So there's a cage there, you know, there's a huge power lifting belts and all the bloody people up on the wall so it it's it's intimidating but absolutely the the level of subject matter expertise that we have teaching in our gym uh across the board uh is is second to none you know with our power lifting program we've got jesse burdick obviously you know you and you and jesse are close and we've got harry selko two of the best strength and conditioning guys in the country in CrossFit.

Harry Selko uses the poke technique. Absolutely. You guys know about that? Hey, Nsema, did I tell you about the arm program we did the other day? It was really good. Yeah, we got the triceps in there. We got the biceps. Have you ever noticed he does that?

Absolutely. He's a poker. Not for the girls. He sl grabbed the ass oh well yeah there you go he gets right down to it really yeah he called it the selco approved but what's annoying about it is he's totally right he said a it gets your attention and b it's contagious right so he started doing it to me and then like a few hours went by because we had a powerlifting meet and i started getting in conversation with him again and i started hitting him and i was like j Jesus Christ, you're right.

I'm like, why am I hitting you? He's like, it's the poke technique. And then in CrossFit, we've got Jess runs the program. She's a two-times games athlete. She's an elite lifter in powerlifting, two different weight classes, just an incredible athlete. And she's fought. She was on the U.S. hockey team.

She's won nationals a couple of times, roller hockey ice hockey um in the mma side and her ass appeared on the joe rogan show her ass has appeared on the joe rogan show many many times many other places many other places of course of course yeah joe joe loves my wife joe loves my wife. So, yeah. And then, you know, I think that, as you said, that level of expertise and the level of student that we attract, it bleeds over. So the culture is is very successful and it's a high level on any floor you go into, you know, whether it's CrossFit or Krav Maga. We've got some of the best people in the country doing it. So people want to be around them. How have you learned so much about striking and MMA type stuff? Like where did this all start for you? Well, when I was a kid, I was bullied a lot in my mom. Because of the long hair? Yes.

Because, you know, when you're seven and you've got a mullet, you know, you're going to get your ass kicked a little bit, you know. So my mom was like, listen, if you're not going to cut the mullet, you're going to need to learn how kicked a little bit you know uh so so my mom was like listen if you're not gonna cut the mullet you're gonna need to learn how to defend yourself a little you little sissy um so uh i started martial arts uh as a result of that my mom put me into a bunch of martial arts when i was like 10 11 12 um and then started boxing uh on the east coast and then we moved to the west coast when i was 15. When your mom put you in those classes, did you really want to do that? Not really.

Not really. But my mom was – I like that, though. I like to share parenting stuff with people because I think sometimes your kid does need – you guys are parents as well. Sometimes your kid needs a little shove. Listen, when it gets to the point where – have a very successful kids program, when it gets to the point that the child is disruptive and doesn't, you know, and is impacting everybody's ability to learn, it's a problem. But the truth of the matter is, is that sometimes kids need to do things they don't want to do.

And no, I didn't want to do that at the time because I was intimidated by it. because I was intimidated by him. But the reality is that, and this is the truth of the matter, is she put me into the martial arts and it took about a year and eventually I got bullied one day and then I was never bullied again after that. I'm pretty sure I picked the kid up, slammed him on his head, beat him up in front of everybody. And this is a guy that bullied me for years.

And how much learning did you have at that point? Was it just a couple weeks worth? No, it was about a year i mean i continued to be bullied while i was doing martial arts because i was just i was such a i was really a non-violent you know just super laid-back kid and i i wasn't i wasn't an aggro person kind of like just snap one day i did i did absolutely i was i was and i was bullied were you kind of were you surprised at what you could do yeah absolutely kind of like wait a second yeah no and and again i i'm it's it's one of those things where sometimes uh and it's it's a society is very different now but the reality is that sometimes a bully needs to be hit in the mouth and that's just how it needs to be. Uh, and I, like I said, I was never bullied again after that, you know, and just, and I didn't have

to slam anybody on their head ever again. I just wouldn't, I wouldn't know. And I wouldn't allow it to happen again. You know? And at that moment as a kid, I didn't know I had that strength. And my mom was a very strong woman. She, yeah. I guess I'm laughing about that. Oh, she was strong. Yeah, yeah. Well, my mom was a very, my mom was in the carnival.

My mom was a stripper. My mom was a lot of things. Amazing woman. Amazing woman. But yeah, when she found out I was being bullied, she was like, no, fuck that. Yeah, that ain't happening. No, that's not happening. And she was the one. She was like, if somebody hits you, I want you to hit them back a lot. she was like, no, fuck that. Yeah, that ain't happening. No, that's not happening. And she was the one. She was like, if somebody hits you, I want you to hit them back a lot.

And I was like, I don't know. And I'm like, no, Mom, I can't do that. And then one day it just happened. And so with kids, we get that a lot in our gym is kids that are being bullied. And it's just about confidence. And the kids that are doing the bullying, it's normally learned behavior. They're doing it for a reason too. It's about confidence.

You know, and the kids that are doing the bullying, it's normally learned behavior. They're doing it for a reason, too. You know, and if you can kind of figure out how to negate that, you know, both parties can be helped. What do you think about the way that people talk about bullying today? Do you feel like it was a necessary process for you to go through and they make too big a thing of it nowadays? Or do you think it's healthy that it's talked about so much well you know from so i'll tell you in my gym what we don't do is you know we don't do uh we don't do politics we don't do religion we don't do any you know my social media i have one of the largest followings in social media for a gym uh that you're that you're ever going to find for

muay thai i mean i think i think for crossfit j Jason might be the only one with more followers for Jim. And for MMA, Jackson's an American top team and then us, right, are the big. And I don't have UFC champions yet or anything like that. So a lot of our content is just organic, natural day of, you know, day of life kind of thing. life kind of thing. But what I will say is that society today, social media has been tremendous technological advantage, but it's given everyone a voice, which is good and bad. And the reality is, is that bullying isn't a new behavior and it is a genetic uh code uh that happens the strong survive the weak perish um and as someone who was bullied mercilessly to a point where i mean i missed i think 80 days of school oh yeah you know but the character built from surviving that and dealing with that and overcoming that, I think is very, is ingrained

in me. And, you know, now I can't stand to see anyone bullied. So bullying is not good. Bullying is a behavior that is, uh, that is horrible. How we deal with it and how we treat it as a society. Now, uh, I think we are weakening the kids. I think we are weakening our society as a whole. Maybe the way a parent weakens their child by doing way too much for the kid. Right, exactly. And that for me is... I'm guilty.

Yeah, sure. Oh, me too. I mean, I grew up on welfare. My kids are never wanted for anything. If they want it, they have it just because... They don't have to figure out shit on their own. Yeah, no, 100%. And a lot of that is, is compensation on my part for what I didn't have as a kid.

Right. Uh, so when regards to bullying, again, I'm not advocating bullying, but what I'm saying is that when bullying happens, like any other adversity in life, how you handle it will kind of lay the map work of how you'll handle problems moving forward. So no, you shouldn't allow yourself to be bullied as long as I did. But when confronted with bullying, yeah,

sometimes a bully needs to be punched in the mouth. And if you can't do that, then it's going to bleed over and everything else in your life. You're getting a punch in SEMA for what? Being a bully. That's on you. But in terms of kids, like your gym does MMA for kids, right? What do you think, if parents don't have access to an MMA gym, what should they have their kids start with?

Well, and again, with the kids that come to our gym, we have an MMA program, but it's Muay Thai and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Only Thai and Brazilian jiu-jitsu. You know, what I'll tell most parents when they're dealing with kids that are being bullied or wanting to get their kids into martial arts, I'll tell them Brazilian jiu-jitsu. Just because it is, one, if you're dealing with a school that has a zero tolerance policy with striking, there's no striking in Brazilian jiu-jitsu. Brazilian jiu-jitsu is also a leverage-based art. So it doesn't matter how big or small you are. You can defend yourself pretty effectively, man, woman, child.

It doesn't really particularly matter. So it is a great skill, right? Wrestling, Brazilian jiu-jitsu for kids are tremendous activities. Muay Thai is fantastic. I'm a Muay Thai coach. I'm the head coach for the U.S. Muay Thai team. Sorry. So Muay Thai is always going to be my first love.

But when it comes to kids' self-defense scenarios, I don't care how many black belts you have at 12 years old from taekwondo. If Mark Bell grabs you, there's not much you're going to do about it. But if you're proficient at Brazilian jiu-jitsu, you can actually defend yourself to a degree as a, as a kid versus a striking based art or high kicking based art. Especially as a kid, you're thinking like the setting is probably a school setting, right?

It's probably a one-on-one situation. It's different than maybe something that might happen in the street. Like if you're talking about protecting yourself in the street, what do you think would be, like is there a better option than Brazilian jiu-jitsu or you still would kind of reference Brazilian jiu-jitsu? Well, what I would say is that, well, and again, we're talking about kids, right? Right. So the question was is, you know, what would you introduce the kids to?

Again, I'm a big fan of Brazilian jiu-jitsu and wrestling for kids just because it's a control position. It's non-striking and you're going to get into less issues in your schools and everything else. And then it's not really kind of size-based. It's leverage-based. As an adult, again, I've taught self-defense seminars and defensive tactics seminars all over the world with military law enforcement, private citizens. And it's a different animal. You know, are you surviving an ambush and an assault or are you in consensual combat? Right. So, you know, most self-defense scenarios are when alcohol isn't involved is going to be an ambush type thing. And then, you know, how well do you read the pre-contact cues? How well do you deal with that initial attack?

So, you know, we teach Krav Maga in my gym and, you know, I believe that Krav is a really effective real world self-defense system because it's not a choreographed system. I have probably, what was it, four black belts. Uh, you know, and I got a Taekwondo black belt when I was 13 years old. Uh, didn't mean shit, right? Uh, it's, you know, the reality is, is that when dealing with a real world assault, your ability to survive the initial ambush moment, and then the ability to be in consensual combat. You swing at me, I deal with it. I hit you back. I knock you out. You know, I do all the crop techniques in the world and I hit you with an elbow and I kick you in the dick and whatever. If you're still standing now, we're fighting.

Okay. There's tactics, there's technique, there's offense, there's defense. So, you know, for me, you know, that's why I started the Krav program is because I believed that it was the most effective reality based self-defense system one could find based on all of my years of doing what I've done. And people Google me and look at my background. You know, I used to run the largest global risk management company in the world and dignitary protection and defensive tactics and everything else. And that was a whole nother life before CSA and Krav fit that envelope of, of what we needed and what I felt was effective for self-defense. And because it's, it's just fighting, it's boxing, it's Brazilian jujitsu, it's wrestling, it's Muay Thai. And if it's packaged any other way and it's choreographed bullshido, it's not going to work.

That's just it, right? You just created a new martial art. No, I didn't. Unfortunately, that's a real thing and that's a real term. Yeah. Oh. Effectively, what it means is traditional martial arts that aren't realistic you know uh and i you know like chopping through blocks of ice or something like that

sure and everything has its place and everything you know everything can work when done uh uh when done effectively but you know if white tiger kung fu and praying mantis striking was the most effective style of striking then that's what you would see in the ufc and you don't you see boxing you see muay thai you see wrestling you see brazilian jiu-jitsu that's all krav maga is but it's run through a reality-based filter dealing with multiple attackers and weapons and if i put you in this arm bar, maybe their friend comes up and, and a curb stomps me. So I have to be aware of my scenario and my, but the base arts, right? If you're going to do self-defense or you're going to do any type of training, whether you're law enforcement, military, or private citizen, there has to be reality and

resistance, right? It can't just be choreographed. You do this, I'll do this, and then I'll do this. And then because I hit you this way, you're going to turn this way, and then I'm going to hit you with this. Wait, wait, throw that kick a little slower. Exactly, right? And not quite as high. Right. Stab me this way. Yeah, yeah, that way. Not this way, right? So that's why Brazilian jiu-jitsu is so effective, because it's always done with resistance, right? There's always going to be something that's done yeah there you go that's a little bushido for you yeah this is when you were younger yes yes yes moving you really shouldn't put that footage out he's almost mixing break dancing in with it yeah i feel like there's a lot of like especially with krav maga

right i've seen a lot of krav magaa McDojos because I feel like it's something that people feel that they can get away with calling Krav Maga. Listen, anything can be done well, anything can be done badly, right? So there is some tremendous Krav Maga gyms and then there is some total garbage. There are some tremendous CrossFit gyms and then there's some tremendous powerlifting gyms and then there's some total there's some tremendous power lifting gyms. And then there's some total garbage. It doesn't matter what it is. If if the culture is one of doing things successfully, it can be successful.

Some of the toughest dudes I've ever met and I just ragged on Taekwondo a bunch. But some of the toughest dudes I ever met were these three Jamaican brothers in Connecticut that taught me Taekwondo. These guys, no gear, would just beat the shit out of each other every day. And they were not like traditional taekwondo guys. And they were some of the toughest guys I've ever met. It's not the singer, right? It's not the song, it's the singer. So no matter what your martial art, if you're training intensity

and you're dealing with reality, then it can be successful. Whenever you fall into dogma and choreography with martial arts, then it's not realistic. It's just not. So no matter what you're doing, whether it's Krav Maga, Taekwondo, or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, are you practicing in reality and with intensity? And that's really the most important thing. How'd you guys meet, Jessica? As I gaze at my husband. He's so sexy when he talks.

I love it. Actually, we met kind of before we actually met. So I was working at a video store managing it, and he used to have late videos. You don't have those anymore. Nope. Nope. Like a blockbuster? Be kind, please rewind.

Yeah, yeah. Like a blockbuster, but it was privately owned. Okay. Yeah. But he walked in all the time with late videos and somehow convinced me to forgive the fee. Yeah. And then he thought I was too young at the time so we actually never talked at that point it was about a year later i went to the roller rink that he was managing and

djing at and i went with some friends and i asked him to play steve miller band i requested a song and he said uh that record's broken who if you don't go to a roller rink and i was like this dick and then he looks at me he goes hey aren't you the video store girl i was like are you serious he had my number by the end of the night needless to say yeah game yeah i recognize oh it gets it gets because then he probably waited about three days before he called me then he took me out to dinner we went to Acapulco's in Santa Rosa. And he sang for me with the mariachi band. This is the first night that you guys went out?

First date. He sang. He sang Elvis. He made them play Elvis. Did he sing pretty good? Oh, yeah. No, no. Actually, Kieran sings great.

But at the time, you didn't know he could sing, right? No, I had no clue. And he started singing. I was like, wow. Well, listen, his voice on the mic was good enough for me at the time, you didn't know he could sing, right? No, I had no clue. And he started singing. I was like, wow. Well, listen, his voice on the mic was good enough for me at the rink. You were already signed up. I was like, hmm, yeah. I did think he was a dick, though, because my friends at the rink said,

would you ever date the DJ? And I was like, no. I literally said, no, that guy's a pompous asshole. Why do women always fall for that? Why does that always work? Because it does. Because it does. Well, then after dinner, he left me hanging. He didn't even fully kiss me. He like half kissed me.

And then didn't call me for another three days. Tactics. There you go, guys. That's how you do it. If you guys need help. 25 years married. People are going to be able to see this eventually, right? There's a place to see this. So watch.

Trust me. Magic. Trust me. There's a system involved. Perhaps you have a magic wand. She's way out of my... Well. Well, he's quite a master.

That's another show. That's a whole different show. But yes, she's way out of my league, but she doesn't believe that. So that's part of it. You got to keep it that way. Exactly. So every once in a while, you go, woman, calm down. Yes, yes, sir.

No, she doesn't. But yeah. We did have a thing in the grocery store for a while. Oh, yeah, exactly. You guys ready? Want to see what we do at the grocery store? Watch this. We did have a thing in the grocery store for a while.

Oh, yeah, exactly. You guys ready? You want to see what we do at the grocery store? Watch this. We used to do that just randomly for fun. Freaks people out. You just drop down on the ground. Yo, my girl does that to me.

It's messed up because she'll see that there's some cops nearby. We're both black. So she'll be like, we'll be walking. And then I'll tell her, she'll be like, ah! She'll do that kind of stuff. She'll be like, don be walking and then like I'll talk she'll be like she'll do that kind of she'll be like don't do that look at me yeah

yeah yeah yeah no if I was black I couldn't do that I could not do that I could not could not get away from that you might be able to dance

better than you can dance now though maybe no not possible no not possible not possible the way I dance no

you'll find you'll find videos. Jessica, you've been a lifelong athlete, and you played many, many different sports. How'd you get involved in sports when you were young? Actually, it's funny. I started as a figure skater, to be honest. Early on, yeah. From figure skater to hockey player?

Yeah, early on. Probably not a lot of people made that transition. No. And it was kind of a weird route, actually. That's pretty cool. Because I had private ice and everything in the morning. My P.E. was figure skating. Where did you grow up? Santa Rosa.

I was at Charles Schultz's rink, and my trainer at the time was Karen Kresge, who choreographed for Scott Hamilton. Yeah, that was my P.E. all the time. And then when my parents divorced of course that kind of went away and then when I met Kieran uh there was roller hockey actually and I was I was skating at the rink and there's only like two girls they beat the hell out of each other in that right yeah at the time yeah I mean I mean they still do I've seen a lot they

beat the shit out of every other than the the rotator cuff that she just tore, every single injury she's had is an Well, that was kind of that, too. I mean, I got hit. Yeah, I got hit in hockey. So every single injury she's had, broken clavicle, two ACLs, separated shoulders, it's all been hockey. She's fought. She's been to the games twice.

She's power lifted at a high level. No injuries. Hockey. And I'll still say it's the best sport ever. She loves hockey. I plan on it. I'm still playing. When she was competing at the games the two years in a row that she competed at the games,

the year before she blew out her knee playing hockey. Before she made the games the two years in a row that she competed at the games. The year before, she blew out her knee playing hockey before she made the games the first time. She had surgery and she made the games like eight months later. I remember that. Yeah, and I wouldn't let her play hockey during that time. But when I was fighting, I refused.

He was like, don't play hockey. I was like, no, if I'm going to fight, I'm still playing hockey. Sorry. Yeah, but when she was doing CrossFit, I made her stop playing hockey. And I've let her start playing hockey again just because. You didn't have a choice, motherfucker. Don't. Hey, don't. Listen, my friends are watching.

Don't. Don't make me look bad in front of my friends. He's got a thing to live up to. That's right. Right. But hockey, every injury she's ever had has been hockey related. And she won't stop.

We were talking about hockey not too long ago on the show and the fact that they just let fighting happen right on the ice. Does that happen in the hockey league? Yeah, it does. They don't let it. There's only two refs on the rink.

They generally have to let people calm down a little bit before they can actually separate them. Otherwise, the ref's going to get hurt. Right. You know, so there's a little, but there's a lot more contact in hockey, but it's normal. You know, it's way normal. I mean, I play men's league, too. I didn't play women's league.

So for my league, outside of my travel and my national stuff, even play men's league, I've seen dudes ground and pound each other on the ice. That's crazy. And you're going up against guys that are my size and bigger? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Really?

I just got to skate faster and smarter. That's fucking crazy. But it's, you know. I mean, do they care or do they just try to fucking kill you the way they kill anybody else? You know, I got to be honest, for the most part, well, the higher level you play, it's better, right? Because people just want to play. People don't play shitty and try to take, you know, they don't think they're in the NHL.

Right. But, you know, for the most part, anytime I've played men's league, there's only a few girls in men's league, so they're pretty cool about it. There's always that asshole. There's always one, right? Right. You know asshole. There's always one, right? Right.

You know, and there's always one that- Got to prove a point. Or there's one that you want to, you know, dig at a little bit. I mean, probably the best thing I've had being underestimated was we went to LA one time and I went to do a pickup game and I got on the bench and the guy next to me goes, what position do you play? And I said, oh, I play D. And he goes, okay.

So he proceeds to sit down and tell me how to play D and what I should do. And I said, oh, okay, all right, thank you. And I smiled and I nodded. He goes, okay, I'm going to go out first so you know what I'm talking about. And I said, okay. Didn't ask me my background. He just asked me jack shit. So he goes out and I'm like, oh, this is going to be great because he wasn't that good.

So he changed up. He goes, okay, now it's your turn I said okay and I hopped out I picked off the guy coming down the rink like three times I took it half ice ripped a slap shot I came back and he sat on the bench and he goes um I'm really sorry how long have you been playing I said a long time and I kind of explained a little he goes I I'm really sorry. I was like, that's okay. He goes, you just smiled and nodded. I was like, oh, yeah.

I know what I can do, so I wasn't worried about it. It's like a black belt going into a gym, but he's wearing a white belt. Kind of. Pretty much. Pretty much with her. How did you get into CrossFit? Pretty much with her. How did you get into CrossFit?

When I took my first fight, when I took my first Muay Thai fight, Kyrian said, this is what you have to do. That's really what he said. He said, you have to run three days a week, three miles. You have to spar three days a week, take Thai class four days a week, fighter conditioning three days a week, and you have to do CrossFit and lift. So this is just like literally like a perfect marriage of things. Like you guys, you guys met, you guys got together, you were already into sports, you were already into athletics,

and then you were intrigued by fighting as well? You know, I took it on as a personal challenge, actually. I started Muay Thai as off-ice training for myself. To be honest, I thought that's great. It's the same stimulus, basically, you know. How old were you, by the way, when you started? When I started Muay Thai, I was 30. I don't know, 32?

35? 34? 32? Something like that, yeah. I think when I met you guys, you were just transitioning, I think, out of that and doing more CrossFit, I think. Yeah, because that's how I found CrossFit. To be honest, he made me do CrossFit, I loved it yeah I actually I won all my fights but that's just because I I don't want to be the loser in a fight yeah yeah I was like no way no it's I remember running on the treadmill like she ain't working harder than me that's it that's it I don't care what happens I'm winning but

about ten years ago it wasn't as popular for women. You didn't see it nearly as much. I mean, the UFC didn't have it. Yeah, but I... You didn't see it as much. I got to be honest, I really did enjoy beating somebody up. I wasn't going to lose. But when I broke some girl's ribs the next day, they told me I'd broken her ribs and

I felt bad. I was like, you know. Yeah, she's never... It was... She's just always been good at any sport she's ever undertaken, right? She's just a good athlete. She's dedicated.

So fighting, she was good at it. And I think, as she said, it was never something that she really was super motivated to do. It was new. It was interesting. She was around it all day with me. So why not, you know, spend some time?

Well, and the first time I did any sort of sparring was in Krav Maga. I why not you know the first time the first time I did any sort of sparring was in Krav Maga and I had no idea what the hell I was doing he put me in the ring and it was all dudes and me against a six foot cop with arms the size of trees yeah and I had no ACL then yeah actually yeah and I had never and he's yelling me in the corner I don't know what I'm doing and I it's not like the guy was hurting me, but I couldn't land anything. And I got pissed. And then I ran off the rink or the, the mat. And I was like crying. And he's like, you're having an adrenaline. I was like, no, you don't understand. I play a men's sport. I'm good at it. And then you put me in here. I don't know what I'm doing. And from that point on, it took me another two years to decide to fight.

And I did it as a personal challenge because I was so afraid to get in the ring to be honest it really was more of a personal goal and in my opinion that was a huge turning point for me athletically and mentally mentally physically emotionally I grew from doing my fights yeah it was just make you insanely nervous what does uh back when you started it make you really nervous to fight does? Back when you started, did it make you really nervous to fight? No, my actual fights I wasn't nervous for at all. It was the sparring, to be honest. Yeah. Sparring made me more nervous than actually fighting.

Why is that? Because my husband's looming over me, probably. I have a big, I aim to please. And there's a lot of pressure with Kieran being the coach. I would imagine a lot of people probably feel that way, especially with what you developed at CSA now, seeing the level of fighters that are in there. I mean, I remember when I was doing professional wrestling,

I was intimidated every day. Every day that I went to practice, I was like, I could just keep driving. I could just go past it. I could just fucking keep going. You know practice i was like i could just keep driving i could just go past it you know i could just fucking keep going you know what i mean like i could just skip it i never did but like that thought would run through my head same thing with west side barbells like terrified to train meets are easy competition's easy like competition's gonna be fun and uh the people there the people in the competition they're gonna be like they're not gonna be nearly the savages that I deal with on a daily basis.

Give me a piece of cake. That's definitely how I fight, especially going in my second fight. I was like I had already had a sprained jaw, bloody. I was like, there's nothing this girl's going to do to me. Because if you train that way, you don't have to worry about the comp part. Right. Yeah. And with regards to fighting or especially with regards to fighting there's there's a huge uh like i posted yesterday uh darren tills uh who just fought this last week

in his post-fight uh his post-fight interview uh he was it was it was beautifully honest he was talking about how he was trying to in the back he was thinking of ways to fake an injury to get out of the fight and now this is a guy that people had marked as the next big thing. And he lost a couple of fights kind of brutally. And the stress of it and the intimidation of it had him, you know, at the mecca of fighting the UFC, trying to figure out how he could gracefully fake an injury in the back. I twisted my ankle, man. I don't think I'm good to go.

I twisted my ankle, man. I don't think I'm good to go. But most people that fight are going to deal with that level of intimidation. And you walk into a gym and not knowing how to do something. Most people don't have the patience to suck at something to do it long enough to get good at it. And it doesn't matter what your endeavor is, whether it's fighting, CrossFit, powerlifting, hockey, whatever it is. And it doesn't even have to be athletic. It can just be anything that interests you. Music. Most people don't have the patience to suck at music. Right. It's the realization that, you know, I'm not good enough, which is, you know, that negative voices in everyone's head. Right. It's evolution. It's survival. Right. We want to protect ourselves from things that hurt. It's evolution. It's survival, right? We want to protect ourselves from things that hurt. And if we want to do something and doing it hurts us, then that voice will figure out a way to tell you not to do it. No matter what your endeavor, most people can't ride that negative id, that negative voice out long enough to get good at something, whether it's fighting or anything. So when people walk into the gym, half of them are intimidated. The other half have delusions of grandeur.

So a small percentage will ever actually compete in martial arts, just not because they couldn't, but just because they talk themselves out of it so quickly because it's hard. Jessica, did you have to try to distinguish him being your husband versus him being your trainer? It was a lot harder for me than it was for him I used to fall apart

I'd have a great sparring session as soon as he would walk in I would fall apart he started to have other fighters kind of coach me actually I'd have a great training day we'd get into bed and I'd be like cold shoulder and he's like you did great today i'm like don't talk to me i felt like i sucked and i said you jab was really explosive

too and your defense is getting better it was tough to be honest if you were and that was like 10 years ago or whatever so now and then as then as I got into CrossFit, to be honest, some of that carried over. There were times that he tried to coach me through CrossFit, especially qualifiers and stuff. And driving insane. Oh, I would downright get defiant, actually, and stop doing whatever I was doing. And then we've evolved since there's been times. Or even fuck it up on purpose almost, right? Yeah.

I was just like, no. I've been kicked off his mat, too, several times. I'm probably the only person that's been times. Or even fuck it up on purpose almost, right? Yeah. I was just like, no. I've been kicked off his mat too several times. I'm probably the only person that's been kicked off the mat. One of the few. Yeah. I mean, in the state of California, I don't know how legal it is. I mean, the gym's half hers, but, you know, I have kicked her off the mat before.

Training your significant other is always a challenge, you know, and at the end of the day, your significant other is always a challenge uh you know and at the end of the day i'm comfortable enough to know that that level of defiance aggression um anger is is not really related to our relationship it's just related to in that moment the coach athlete dynamic it's very difficult for the person receiving the coaching to delineate between, you know, where is my supportive husband, you know,

and, and how come he's supportive of everyone else when they need it. But when it's me, you know, he's, he's not, that's not reality. Half the time they don't see that moment,

but it's very difficult. You, you're good at explaining that karen's really good at laying that out though too and he'll remind me you know he'll remind me but there are people in the gym too who who know our dynamic and who are very supportive as well like like that one time during uh open kary was coaching me and you walked in and i was just upset with you about over that workout and he walked in and kary's like look at me look at me there's times i've cussed at him but since now i know so sometimes something comes up i'm like i need you to yell at me today and i'll tell him i'll tell him hey i need you there and i need you

to be pushing my ass you know and he'll get it done he'll fire me up and he knows what buttons to press and he knows when he's pressed the wrong ones. Sometimes as a coach you have to just be flat out honest. Were you able to do that? Were you able to say, hey, look, you're not aggressive enough in this drill. And did that fucking devastate you? No, no, no. He's like that anyway. Kieran is the most brutally honest person I've ever met. Which is wonderful, actually. It's never been a bad thing. I think as a coach, you don't have any other choice.

No, you, and, and, and you, you, you have to be. And, and, and for me, uh, you know, I get a lot of athletes that come to CSA, um, that are looking to rebuild, right? So a lot of our fighters come to us because maybe they've been in situations where coaches weren't supportive, that weren't honest with them. So a lot of the fighters, you know, if you look at our wall of champions and all the different fighters that we've had, you know, they've come to us off of losing streaks and we help turn their career around. So as a coach, I'm very comfortable dealing with the, I do a lot of work with Tony Blower. I've done a lot of work through the years with, you know, through my previous my previous career in fear management and dealing with, you know, the mental side of combat, you know, training defensive tactics for, you know, military and law enforcement and what you're dealing with there. Is this stuff that you studied or is this stuff that you just got experience in?

Or is this stuff that you just got experience in? Listen, 30 years of it, you know, 30 years of coaching and, you know, 20 of that, you know, operating in, you know, nasty places around the world and, you know, studying as well. So I think our gym is successful in the fighting element. And even in the CrossFit element, you know, we haven't been graced with, you know, the world's greatest, you know, CrossFit athletes. We've, you know, most of our regional teams have always been, you know, homegrown athletes and, you know, same thing with fighting. We have homegrown athletes and then we have fighters that have come to us that have maybe not had success in other places and they're having success now because I can help them kind of navigate the mental side of of combat you know yeah but you know what do you know that helps is like as a coach you don't take any sort of you don't take anything personal so if the athlete's having their moment even as his wife if i'm having my moment he's not taking it personal you know and i think a lot i think

there's a lot of coaches that get too emotional and personal over. And from what I've seen, you're like really extremely calm. Is he like that all the time? Yeah. He never raises his voice. If anyone does the yelling in the house, it's me. I guess otherwise you would lose your fucking mind, though, with all the different things that are coming at you in a given day. Right. If you were high and low and.

Yeah. No, you have to. You have to. You have to be even keeled, you know, especially in combat sports and in business. You have to be even keeled. There are going to be combat sports and in business, you have to be even keeled. There are going to be, you know, things that happen. You know, our gym almost burnt down earlier this year. Um, you know, uh, you know, if you're going to react to everything, yeah, literally, uh,

you know, one of our neighbors left their dumpster right next to the, uh, uh, uh, the, uh, the converters inside the building and left all their cardboard in the dumpster. Arsonist runs through, hits that, blows up the converter in the building. The building's without power. We're like maybe five minutes away from everything being burned down. And we weren't even in town. I wasn't even in town.

You know, so, you know, I do a lot of, you know, triaging. And through my previous career of just triaging problems, you know, when you're in protective services, when you're doing, you know, risk management, when you're on a kidnap ransom case, you know, you're dealing with immediate threat versus less threat. Right. What's the what's the immediate threat? And that's how I run my business. That's how I run my fight team. That's how I run my program is, OK, what are the biggest issues that we have to resolve? my program is, okay, what are the biggest issues that we have to resolve? What are the challenges? And then, you know, piece by piece, calmly manage these things. Um, and, uh, it's always been successful for me. Yeah. I got a phone call that our gym was on fire a few years ago. Uh, the gym manager at the time was like, uh, I'm glad I got ahold of you, man. The gym's on fire. And I said, call the fire department. Had they called the fire department yet?

I think he already did. He was like, I did. He's like, are you going to come by? I'm like, maybe. I'm like, I'm in the middle of cooking up some hamburger patties. I don't know how to fight fires. That's not a strength of mine. Priorities.

I'm going to let somebody else mess with it. What was I going to do? Pour a cup of water on it? Blow on it? Sure, it sure sure yeah i'm gonna be able to do shit with it so i try to view things the same way i try not to get you know when things are going really good trying to get overly pumped about them when things go bad trying not to get overly uh messed up with that how do you deal um, or what do you think is easier to, for fighters to deal with? And you can answer this too, Jessica, since you've been in the ring yourself, what's easier to deal with wins or you haven't lost, I guess. What's easier to deal with wins or losses? Um, uh, wins are far easier to deal with than losses, right? Uh, when you win, everybody did their job. Everybody's happy right now. Most people, when they win, you know,

they're going to look back at their performance and they're going to go, oh, I could have done this better, could have done this better. But losing a fight is death, right? It's when you look at the warrior ethos, you lose a fight, you lost mortal combat with another human being, your value is diminished. You're not as good as the other guy. You're not as good as the other guy in your mind. Right. You're not good enough. You're dead. Where with combat sports. Right. So

fighting is such a unique sport. You know, it's an individual sport, but it's absolutely a team sport as well. But it's so unique in that, you know, you can lose five or six games in an NFL season and still win the Super Bowl. As a fighter, every single fight is a Super Bowl. You don't look past it. So losing a fight can take so much out of a fighter because it's so personalized in just the ability to defend oneself, the confidence necessary to fight. You have to believe you can beat anyone. And then when you don't beat that person, then you question your entire self-worth. Right.

So rebuilding from losses is really the toughest part of what we do and what I do. and what I do. And, you know, what I think we have had great success in is just kind of most gyms, most high-level fight teams, right? The culture is win, win, win, win, win, win, win. We don't lose. The reality is, is 50% of the time somebody loses. If you can just accept that as part of the sport and you can learn from it and grow from it, right? Then a loss can become a, a powerful tool, right?

When I hear shit like, uh, you know, you didn't lose, you learned, right? You win or you learn. No,

fuck that. You win or you lose. That's, that's it. Somebody won, somebody lost. If you can't accept that you lost something and you've got to play fucking

verbal masturbation with yourself to build yourself up, you shouldn't be competing. You lost. That day the other person was better. Or they weren't better and you lost a bad decision. You can't control that. Or they weren't better than you. You got

injured in the fight and you couldn't continue. A loss is a loss is a loss is a loss. That's it. You can learn from losses, but to try to just convince yourself that, you know, the word loss is bad, uh, is mentally weak and you empower that loss. Okay. I lost. Great. How do I prevent it from happening again? It's that simple. And I think we've had great success with that is kind of just people being honest about their losses. Okay, I lost. It sucks. All right, let's get back in there. We'll do it again. What can we do better? What are we? How do we how do we improve? But taking away that power, right? Because the negative voice for an athlete is always going to be that doesn't matter your sport. Because the negative voice for an athlete is always going to be, it doesn't matter your sport. Now take that negative voice that wants to protect you from something and your sport actually hurts. Combine those two together where the negative voice wants to protect you and you're in a sport of combat. It magnifies everything, right? So managing that negative voice and dealing with losses

is absolutely my biggest challenge as a coach, 100%. Our team record this year after this weekend is 62-12. Wow. And that's UFC, Bellator, Lion Fight, Rizin, Invicta, you know, anything and everything. That's boxing, Muay Thai, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Not Jiu-Jitsu. Boxing, Muay Thai, kickboxing, and MMA.

All the combat sports, right? And I barely remember any of those wins. I remember every single one of those losses. They're burned in me. Because as a coach, I take responsibility. If the athlete did their job and they won, cool. They did their job. If they lose. It's all his fault. What did I do wrong? Right. And you know, a lot of coaches, oh, they didn't follow the game plan.

Okay. It's still my fault. What happened in training that I didn't see? They weren't going to follow the game plan. So the losses are the hardest. The wins are easy. And that's what I go through after each loss for hours at home. To where I have to remind him that's part of the game. Is it a little tough on the whole family? Like it's a little quiet? He's good. Everybody kind of knows if there's a loss, but it's not like, you know, he's more upset

with himself and he goes really inside. Like, yeah, he just, he holds everything in anyway. So he talks to me about it later in the evening and we just, you know, hash it out and reassure him. Yes. It's not all your fault. Yeah. No. Listen, she, Jessica, without Jessica, there'd be no CSA.

Without Jessica, I don't know where I would be. Jessica, there'd be no CSA without Jessica. I don't know where I would be. Um, the, the, the reality is, is that I've always been a very, uh, very serious down to business kind of guy, you know, and, uh, you know, she's the one that I am not, she is not absolutely not. She doesn't take much serious at all. Uh, but I couldn't be with me for 25 years. Uh, there's no way I'm extremely easygoing, too. So let's go there. So, you know, she's she's really helped kind of helped me get through, you know, tough times, you know, in life, just everything.

When we were broke, you know, when I was traveling all over the world doing protection stuff and, you know, taking her from, you know, venue to venue. And we had nothing. And we had our first child. And, you know, we've got a pinwheel table and a crib and we're sleeping on mattresses on the floor while I'm trying to do protection. I think it was an air mat on a futon. Yeah, something like that. You know, always positive, always uplifting. Sounds always supportive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, there's in 25 years, there's nothing I've ever wanted to do that she wasn't supportive of and life-changing. When I was running the risk management business, the Steele Foundation, I was making a lot of money. I was making a lot of money doing that.

And I got tired of it. I got tired of protecting people that didn't really deserve to be protected. They could just afford it. You were miserable. They weren't good people and I wanted to help people. So I started teaching again while I was doing that as my day job and started coaching again, which I really loved. And that's what I was doing when I met her. I was going to school. I was teaching martial arts and I was running security at a skating rink and DJing and managing. And so I had like three or four different jobs.

But ultimately, my passion was fighting and teaching. And then she got pregnant and I wasn't making any money doing that. So I had to grow up, put my big boy pants on and get a job and really kind of focus on. Well, I didn't get pregnant. I made that decision. Oh, yeah. OK. All right. I said now is the i had to when she decided she wanted to have a baby and i said yes ma'am whatever

you want um i had to i had to step up and i had to support that decision so uh you know that's when i kind of got out of teaching and fighting and, and, and focused on, you know, a career and that career was very, very good to us. And when I grew tired of it, you know, I got two kids now and I'm like, okay, I think I want to open up a gym and I want to retire from what we're doing here. You know, my six figure plus salary, are you okay with that? She goes, sure, we'll be fine. I said, shit or get off the pot. That's what I said.

What's the worst that's going to happen? We end up at my parents' house? Whatever. She's always been supportive of everything I've wanted to do. Without that, I wouldn't have had the confidence to do the things that I've done. She's been my backbone. When it comes to winning and losing, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off there. I couldn't see you. Um, have you noticed like any fighters having a hard time dealing with like the pressure of like following up like a huge win or

something like, uh, maybe whether it be an upset or a title or something. And then now they're like under so much pressure to kind of follow up that same performance. Sure. Sure. It, it, the, the, the mind of an athlete is riddled with landmines, you know, the good, the bad, the highs, the lows. Um, there are so many potential and you don't even know it missteps that could happen. Right. Um, you know, when it comes to, uh, managing that fear, whether it's fear of success or fear of failure, getting to the bottom of what's the problem, truly understanding what they're afraid of, right? It's like I had a, you know, I had a female fighter. She was undefeated. She was six and O as an, as, as an amateur and two and O as a pro. She fought this past weekend on the same card.

My girl Kanako was on. So I had two fighters. One won their first world title. The other lost their first fight ever. And this is a girl that played high level basketball. She played football on the men's team in high school. Just a stud of an athlete. Just had a baby. She was 200 pounds after childbirth. Came back. That was like nine months, eight months ago. Had her first fight back and she lost first time she ever lost. Um, you know, and I was incredibly proud of her just by getting back in there, you know, losing the weight, doing what she needed to do. But I was very concerned how she would take her first loss because you never know how an athlete is going to do with

that. Some never recover, i.e. like Ronda Rousey. Right? And some get better. And so she sent me a text and literally just went through all the reasons why she was thanking me for letting her test herself with the fight that she took and the fact that she was always afraid of not losing, but the result of losing being she wasn't strong enough. Her teammates wouldn't care for her. Coach wouldn't respect her. No one would love her if she lost. Right. Not afraid of losing, afraid of the after effect of if I'm associated with losing, people won't love me anymore because I win and all I do is win and I've always won. And then after she lost, her son was still there. Her family was still there. I was still there. Her career was still

there. She's going to be better for it. And then I've had other people that lose fights and they never recover, just never recovered. Uh, and that's hard. It's hard to manage. It's hard to deal with. And then I've had people that have won fights that they weren't supposed to win as you're alluding to. And then the pressure of that now destroys them, right? Because there's no expectation. And now all of a sudden I'm supposed to win, right? If you're winning all the fights that you're not supposed to win, that's very different than I have a female fighter who, uh, destroyed everybody, like always an underdog beat everybody. And then as soon as

she started being the favorite, it was too much pressure for her. Right. And, uh, a little self-destructive and that happens. Right. And it's just about managing those ebbs and flows of the athletic mind, whether it's mental game coaching, hypnosis. There's lots of ways to go about it, but you have to ultimately just get to the bottom of what is the real problem, right? It's very rarely I'm afraid of the person standing in front of me. It's never about, you know, most people that fight, they don't get into it because they're afraid of people, right? Most people that fight get into it because they need public acknowledgement right fighting acting sports music these are people that need attention right these are people that have a need

to and in fighting dominate another person i.e validate myself overcome my fears uh show that i'm special whatever that is all of those positives in the back, there's a million negatives telling you that it's not in any proof that you give that negative voice that it's telling the truth. It's opinion becomes more valuable, right? Every failure feeds that negative voice and then becomes really hard to start even talking over it. And I have that a lot with fighters.

You bring up something really valuable because like, what do you do when that's that's gone you know what do you do when some of the sport is gone right some of the value you know you place so much value and i've seen it a lot in like especially with crossfit yeah um and i'm sure it happens a lot in fighting but i just personally have seen a lot in crossfit and it's like um it's cool that you care this much about it, but why in the world are you, like, why are you labeling yourself as a CrossFitter? Like, why is this, you know, why have you put such a crazy demand on yourself when it's completely delusional?

The fact that they're, you know, so upset sometimes after a workout can be delusional in some way. But what I'm thinking is delusional is like, you're not Rich Froning, like, and you're not gonna be, like you're, you know, did somebody not point this out to you? You know, and like, can we make a little sense of this? Like, yeah, you didn't do well in your workout.

You didn't, I understand, because I've cried over powerlifting before too, and I'm not the greatest powerlifter of all time, but I understand, you know, but we get, I think we fall into like a trap, you know, and we fall into something that, and then even worse is like, what about when you kind of move on, when someone moves on from fighting, you know, what can they, what can they go to? Or like the high school football player that dominated in high school and just got so much praise, so many paths in the back, then just like, that's not there anymore. If they don't coach or they don't do something different.

That's happening in CrossFit now with all the rule changes, with all the changes CrossFit's made, people are going crazy. I was like, calm down. It's still the same program. Yeah, CrossFitters seem to be pretty neurotic about it. They're going nuts. I understand why. Yeah, so with fighting, with CrossFit, I'll talk to CrossFit first because it's something that bothers me, is that I see this trend because people feel abandoned by Greg, right, with the changes that he made to the ethos of CrossFit.

But at the end of the day, did Greg really change the ethos of CrossFit. But at the end of the day, did Greg really change the ethos of CrossFit? No. Greg has always preached what Greg has preached. You know, my CrossFit level one was probably one of the last ones that Greg actually taught at. He's not saying anything different now than he was saying then, right? Dave was teaching the nutrition block during that time, right? And, you know, the CrossFit games were, you know, maybe happening once or twice. The CrossFit Games became something incredible. CrossFit as a sport is incredible. And the biggest issue that people have is that there are a lot of athletes that feel abandoned by it now because they killed the social media and they changed the qualifiers and there's no more regionals and this whole infrastructure that CrossFit sport created, you know, those athletes. So now you've got these people that CrossFit made stars that are no longer really competitive in the sport. And the people who are competitive in the sport now outside of Rich and Matt, but some of these other players that don't have the social

media following that CrossFit gave them. Right. So now you've got a lot of people, Miranda, you've got Camille, Dave run down the list. These people that don't do CrossFit anymore, and now they're building their own brand and they're doing their online programming. So they take digs at CrossFit now, and this is a sport that build them. But now like, oh, you know, and i love dave but and i'm talking about dave i'm talking about camille's husband dave um did he really invent the fact

that bodybuilding and crossfit can work really well no but it's revolutionary damn near looks like a bodybuilder let's let's not forget crossfitters will buy just about anything you sell it's true but but at the end of the day, literally, CrossFit has been so phenomenally successful that there's a group of CrossFit athletes that are blown away by the fact that somebody who used to do CrossFit is now telling them bodybuilding can work too and make you look really good. Yeah. That's news to CrossFitters. Right. Right? I never heard of time under tension.

It honestly is new to them. Exactly. Exactly. But and so it's so weird to me to kind of see this cultural shift because CrossFit stepped away from marketing competitors. And unfortunately, I think they created kind of their own worst enemy here because the people that they did create are now no longer relevant in the sport to a degree. And now they're competing against that. And that's rough. And that's tough. And I understand that. And Miranda has every right to do street parking.

And Camille can continue to be the amazing unicorn that she is. Because that became their identity. Right. And so it's not a knock on. Some of them dropped a lot of careers and everything else. It's not a knock on them. But it's like now CrossFit isn't going to put anyone else out. I mean, when Rich is done, you know, all of those followers CrossFit isn't going to put anyone else out. I mean,

when Rich is done, you know, all of those followers, where are they going to go when he's done competing? Yeah. You know, cause there's no other CrossFit mechanism making CrossFit athletes important anymore. So people that don't like know exactly.

Cause like you mentioned, like they stopped marking their athletes, but what else happened within CrossFit that the top athletes can't be top athletes? Well, it is nothing, nothing happened that the top athletes can't be top athletes well it is nothing nothing happened that the top athletes can't listen the entire structure was different this year everything was different sanctionals there were no regionals matt tia and mayhem won the same people that won the year before when there was okay right

that's the reality nothing changed and they. Okay. Right? That's the reality. Nothing changed. And they did have like four or five social media platforms that they would sometimes share some of their athletes with people. And there was millions of followers between these things. So people got excited and people saw that. What CrossFit did differently is that CrossFit effectively, the CrossFit Games was an expensive undertaking. And Greg Glassman, and this is again party line, Greg Glassman looked at how much money was being spent on the regionals in Brazil

versus how much money was being spent lobbying against Coca-Cola and decided this is my company and this is the direction that I think that CrossFit should be going and the sport of fitness will be fine without us promoting it. It will continue on. And whether or not that's the right answer or the wrong answer, CrossFit is Greg's company.

He can do what he wants with it. But a lot of people felt abandoned by that. And a lot of people are angry about it. And they're right to feel however they want to feel. But what you have is you have kind of this backlash against the Open now. And you have this backlash against the games. And then you have these athletes that are really no longer relevant in CrossFit competitively that aren't going to win the games that are now, well, you know, I feel so much better not doing CrossFit. I'm doing this program.

And basically CrossFit's created these celebrities that are now competing against CrossFit. And that's fine. CrossFit. I'm doing this program. And basically CrossFit's created these celebrities that are now competing against CrossFit. And that's fine. CrossFit was fun. It will continue to be fun. CrossFit is, in my opinion, one of the most effective general strength and conditioning programs you're going to find. You're not going to make the strongest athletes in the world just CrossFitting. You're not going to make the fastest athletes in the world just CrossFitting. But on a general general plane it's a tremendous physical fitness program it literally is just and like even as now like for me it was fun yeah it's fun that's why i like doing it oh there's so many different but i don't do anything if i unless i'm having fun i'm not doing it anyway so

that's why i've been it for so long yeah do you think that like um and again I we don't really know exactly like what happened with like the social media and stuff and whatnot but do you think maybe now with this change that they're kind of pulling the uh the possibility of a rich froning becoming popular and then moving on and then leaving CrossFit hanging sort of like uh like uh like in the NFL like we watched the NFL for the shield we don't necessarily like highlight the players themselves. Sort of like the UFC is kind of doing right now too, where it's like they don't necessarily have one gigantic star.

There are some. There's the McGregors, there's Diaz and whatnot. But they don't really allow each individual fighter to even own their own name. They own everything. So do you think that maybe by doing all this they're trying to prevent anything like that to where they can build the CrossFit name instead?

No, no, no. I don't think so at all. I believe that Greg just didn't like the direction and the finances that were involved with the games. I think the games became Dave Castro's thing and it wasn't Greg's thing. And I think ultimately the budget spent on the games last year was the catalyst that allowed Greg to say, listen, that's enough and we're going to change it. And again, this is just what I've heard through the grapevine, what I know from talking to people that have told me. So I was definitely not a decision maker in the process, but I'm a fairly intelligent guy.

I can read between the lines. And at the end of the day, CrossFit will be fine. The games will be fine. The sport is exciting. But the structure has changed. So with that said, people have trouble dealing with it and have problems with it. And they're welcome to that opinion. Well, that too.

And it put the kibosh on all the big dreams that a lot of the people that are a little disillusioned had too. So all those people that kind of tug along for that big dream, I think I can do it. They're doing it. I can do it. You know, all the disillusioned people kind of go, oh, crap. Now I really can't get there. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. There's some of that going on too. And my understanding of it too is just that the competition level from five years ago until now is like just, it's accelerated at a rate I don't think anybody could have predicted. There's a 15-year-old girl that as of before 20.4 was like in the top 15 in the world for CrossFit. 15-year-old girl. It's evolved. Ahead of Amanda Barnhart. I've been doing it for 10 years. To see that evolution is mind-blowing.

And again, as I think Greg is right, as some of the United States nationalism involved with CrossFit changes and you get more CrossFit in China and you get more CrossFit in Russia, you're going to change globally what's going on with CrossFit and the athletes that are hitting the podium and the athletes that are winning the CrossFit Games are going to change as you get some of these other Olympic centric countries seeing the value of CrossFit as a competitive sport. You'll get a lot more Chinese, you'll get a competitive sport you know you'll get a lot more

chinese you'll get a lot more russian you'll get a lot more uh of of the countries that are normally funding olympic movements you know and who have trouble with the olympic movement now because of drug testing as well right um you know so you know there are a lot of athletes that you know need an avenue in those countries and crossfit could be part of that avenue and still anyone can sign up for the cross for the crossfit open right anybody can sign up for the open and then the the other the part that uh i guess uh people are disappointed about is that they used to be able to go and see their buddy right they used to be able to go to see like a couple representatives from their gym or from the area and they can

go root for them. But now they don't really have regionals the same way. Right. And they know they got rid of them completely. Right. So they amplified how competitive it is. And it's much harder to even get close to the game. They kind of made it more like the Olympics, well, sort of like the Olympics where out

of the open, each country gets their first male and first female and that's it. Whereas before there were nine regions and you had 30 males, 30 females, 30 teams in each region. Right. So anybody listening to this picture this in powerlifting, you know, we get ranked, you know, through a system that we can all get on via the Internet. And we get our lifts, you know, approved by, you know, officials and stuff. And you could see where you rank within your region. You could see where you rank within your state, your age category, all these cool things.

And then from there, you can advance, and you could go to something like in a regional area. You could say, let's just say there's one for each state. So there's 50 of them, right? I know there's not 50 of them, but let's say there's 50 of them. And now I could be like be like oh shit like this is gonna be cool i can and seaman and i are going to this uh california regional you know and and then we know a few other people from a couple other gyms and then maybe like our gym has like five

or six people that go and they support and then that gym's got and then we see each other every year and like this is what's been building and this is what really built the community and built this like cult-like following you know and built a really powerful core system and i think by wiping that out i think is where the frustration and everyone's like oh my god it cuts deep on people because they're like i look forward to going to that every year it's it absolutely and and i'm arguing the HQ side. very competitive CrossFit program of homegrown athletes at a regional level, right? People that wanted to get to that. Literally my competitors didn't even do the open this year, the second open because they were so frustrated by it. Literally changes that CrossFit HQ made to the competitive structure have impacted my gym severely.

The energy in my gym is different. The new members in my gym are different. And I'm saying that's not CrossFit's fault. It is what it is. They made a decision they made because of the financial position of the company. I now have to adapt to this culture. I now have to change as a gym owner, much like as a coach in fighting. If there's a change to the rule structure, you know, if there's a change to the competitive structure, if there's a new competitive entity that opens up like 1FC, I've got to figure out ways to get my athletes in that organization. It's the same thing with CrossFit. I've got to now adjust, modify, and change fire. CrossFit, changing what they changed, didn't impact Jason Kalipa in the least.

Because Jason Kalipa's model was different going into that. He wasn't really about the competition anymore. He kind of got out of that. Me, I was impacted severely. I now have to pivot and change my model. But CrossFit's always going to be successful. I just have to now cater to a community that's going to be a little less competitive because regional is gone. And that's hard for some gyms.

And some gyms are impacted, really don't have the kind of success that I've had. They're not going to be able to ride this out. Right. And that's a shame. But you have to progressively have the mindset to, so we talked about triage. What's the challenge? What's the problem? How do we adapt and how do we continue to be successful?

Whether it's a fight team or a CrossFit gym or a presidential protection unit, right? It doesn't matter. That's always been my mindset. Adapt, overcome, succeed. And that's what we do. You think rogue or anybody else is going to try to pick that part of things back up?

I wish they would. I really wish they would. Because they were huge in the whole process. I mean, they brought all the weights and stuff. Oh, and they still are. They still are, and they'll do that this year. And the one open announcement that they were responsible for, it was beautiful.

It reminded me of the old days. And I hope that Bill and Kathy are able to get more involved in just the overall game stuff just because I don't think anybody can do it as well as they without Dave and CrossFit doing it the way that they were. I don't think anybody can do it better than Bill and Kathy. Nobody has that institutional knowledge. They've been there. They've done it all. They've seen it all. I hope that they that they take over.

I really do. It'd be great for the sport you know you've talked a lot about like the mindset not just of like you know working with athletes but also business um has there been anyone that's like influenced all of this because i mean obviously you have years of experience so that plays a big role right but did you learn from anyone did you have certain resources like how did that come about? I just, I've had a, I mean, I've had a very, uh, I've had a very eclectic, uh, background. I started out, uh, you know, fighting and then I got into protective services and then, you know, uh, you know, the company that I ran was a, a, a multimillion dollar conglomerate by the time it was done. So, you know, I've had

just a lot of general experiences that have kind of lent to a successful model. I think I'm somewhat intelligent and I've been able to take those experiences and turn it into a successful business. Now, again, I've got a great partner. My partner, MJ, has been with me since day one. He's without him, the gym wouldn't be successful. I've got a tremendous partner. My partner MJ has been with me since day one. Without him, the gym wouldn't be successful. I've got a tremendous wife that's my partner in life, and she supported me from day one. But when I opened up CSA in 2009, it was a down economy. Opening up a gym or a restaurant was not the smartest thing in the world to do. And we've continued to be successful because we've offered a quality product at an affordable price.

And that will always be our model. And I think part of our success is because of diversity. Again, I'm not just a CrossFit gym. I'm not just an MMA gym. I'm not just a self-defense gym. We do it all. And we're family-orientated. So, like I said, you look at Jackson Wink. You look at American Top Team.

These guys have huge social media followings, tons of UFC champions. Then you look at my gym. I've got a lot of great fighters. I've got a lot of great athletes. But my social media following is not based on one person. My gym success isn't based on one person, a.k.a. it's a great gym. When their fighters win, their gym is doing well. When their fighters lose, their gym isn't doing as well.

My fighters can win. My fighters can lose. Every month my membership goes up. And that's just, I think, because of the product that we offer and the overall mindset of how we operate. There's no like fighter only thing happening at my gym. Tonight I'll teach boxing at 5.30 and I'll have people that have never boxed before and I'll have world champions and they're all in the same mat training together. There's no click. Everybody's welcome. Same thing with Muay Thai. And then when we spar tonight at 830, I'll have people who are sparring for the first time. And I have people that'll be fighting in two weeks

for Bellator, sparring together, getting better. And I think that's why our CrossFit was successful because our competitors were training in the same room with our athletes and taking the same classes. the same room with our athletes and taking the same classes. Same thing with our fighting, right? Is that there's no click. There's no, this one's more important than that one, right? The programming is designed for the fighter. The programming is designed for the competitor. The programming is designed and anybody can do it. You can sweat with a purpose or you can just sweat. So even if we do a bag class, it's designed for the fighters. And our bag classes have everybody. You got CrossFit, Kravis, and fight people in the bag classes. Powerlifter. Yeah, and powerlifting. Everybody loves that class. There's no gym that

does what we do at the level that we do it. There are MMA gyms that do some CrossFit. There's some CrossFit gyms that do some side projects, But there's no legitimate world-class CrossFit affiliate, legitimate world-class MMA affiliate, legitimate world-class crop affiliate, legitimate world-class powerlifting gym all under one roof. And it's that diversity that I think helps make us successful. So what did I do? I was smart enough to realize that diversity and real subject matter expertise can support a gym. Right. How do you guys do all this? How do you have these, you know, fourteen hundred clients? And on top of that, you travel a lot. Yeah. You guys you guys have two children, correct? How do you know how's all this work?

Well, he's at the gym. We got we have a good base and they're all homegrown what about more in the beginning as you were building that might have been harder the kids were younger he was still working how old are the kids right now uh my son's 22 jillian's 14 our daughter's 14 yeah when they were younger and you guys were starting jillian was three well he still worked his regular job for the first three years that we opened CSA. So he'd be working nine to five and go straight from his regular job. I hope everybody heard that. To the gym.

Yeah. And work until 1030 at night. I think everyone thinks the story is like you give your boss the finger and you leave and you go follow your dream. No. We still needed our bread. We needed bread on the table. So he kept his job until he absolutely didn't need it anymore. Right.

And that kept us afloat. And even though CSA, we pretty much broke even at six months, I believe. It was like six to eight months open. Four. Four, something like that. Yeah. We broke even. But he was still nine to fiving it.

MJ. MJ was a huge part in that. MJ is very – those two work together amazing. And they balance was a huge part in that. MJ is very, these two, those two work together. Amazing. And they balance each other out too. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's, it's, it's, it's definitely, it definitely wasn't easy in the beginning, but yeah, again, having a dream and wanting to change careers and all these things that I did, I don't want to come off like I was flip it with that. Yes. I kept my day job for three years while I was doing that just to make sure that my family didn't go without. You can achieve a dream and not be reckless. You can intelligently attack a plan. And I have fighters

that fight full time and they work full time and they're successful. And I have other fighters that do nothing but fight and they're successful. And then I have the reverse people that work and fight and they're not successful and people don't get jobs and they're broke and they're not successful in fighting either. So wherever your mindset takes you and how willing you are to work hard and to sacrifice is always going to be the key to success in anything that you do. Anything, whether it's owning a gym, competing in a sport or running a multimillion dollar business. Um, you know, uh, sleep is a minimum, uh, you know, uh, you know, my schedule, I'm at the gym, you know, I'm at the gym from 10 to 10 every day if I'm not traveling. So I'm at the gym 12 hours a day. Um, why am I not in there at 6 AM? But because, uh, that's not when the majority of my classes are happening. I'm going to be there when the most of the people are going to walk in, I'm going to be there. I still teach the majority of my classes. Um, you know, a lot of places like, you know, go to an AKA or you go to a Jackson wink. Uh, you know, Greg's not teaching a lot

of classes, you know, hobbies, not teaching all the classes I'm teaching most of the classes in my gym. Right. Um, which I think helps us, uh, build kind of that real strong family team bond because I'm there. You know, I'm always there to kind of level it out when you get all these personalities. And I've got more female fighters than any gym in the world. And trust me, it's all over the place. Female fighters are a unique brand of animal. Right. Because women, when they fight, there's no holding back. They're the meanest animals in the world when they fight.

But leading up to it, there's so many challenges. We have a lot of alpha females. Yeah. All in the same spot. Yeah, perfect. Yeah, exactly. And again, I mean, we've had a lot of success training female fighters. And, you know, where that comes from, you know, me not having a father, being raised by my mother and my grandmother and whatever the psychology behind it is.

You know, that's what's been attracted to our gym. Even our CrossFit side, you know, Jackie Perez, you know, Jessica, you know, Ashley. I mean, we're known for our women in CrossFit far more than we are for our men. Sorry, Ken. But that's just the truth of it. I do think that's something that people identify with you, though. You are giving them the truth in a loving way and you have a very calm demeanor about you. And I've seen you direct.

I've seen you be direct with people before. And it's actually really cool to see because I can kind of see that you're believing in some of these people even a lot more so than they're believing in themselves. And I know you've had fighters move from all over the world to come, you know, to be in Northern California and train at your gym. And that's a huge deal, like for you to be able to, you know, sell that person on like, hey, come to California. Like it's not cheap to live, you know, where you guys are at. And we don't, and we don't do dorms, right? A lot of gyms will do dorms and it makes it really easy. And I'll, I'll never do dorms because you're just giving people a cheap, cheap place to live. They don't really want to be there. Right. Right. And I'm not knocking gyms that do dorms. That's, that's whatever. Um, but for me, if you want to be part of our program,

um, then you're going to find a way to be there. You know, I don't take money from professional fighters. I never have. I don't take a dime. They don't, you know, there are gyms where you're going to pay your gym membership. And then every time you fight, you're going to pay your coach 10% of your, you know, I manage fighters. I coach fighters. I've never taken a penny from a professional fighter. I do it because I want to. Now, with that said, that gives me the flexibility of saying, hey, it's time for you to leave because I'm not being paid by this person. I'm not working for you. I work with you. I choose to work with you.

I choose to help you. I choose to be a part of your life. If I don't want to be, I won't be. And I don't count on your money to be there. Imagine if the Raiders, the players paid John Gruden salary. Imagine, imagine what would happen in that locker room. Imagine what would happen on that field. If the, if, if, if the, uh, if the patients ran the asylum, right. The coach athlete relationship is so unique that in fighting is so unique. When money gets involved, there's always going to be problems. There's always going to be

problems, right? Uh, you didn't spend enough time with me. Uh, I paid you this much money. Um, you know, you, you told me to take this fight because you wanted your percentage. You knew it was a bad fight, but you just wanted to make your money or you wouldn't let me fight because you didn't want to hurt your investment and whenever that dynamic happens that's why it makes everything weird it makes everything weird that's why you have so many people that leave this camp and go to that camp in this gym and go to that gym because there's never a baseline level of trust when money's involved and i'm not knocking gyms that that's how they make their money. God bless you.

That's how you make your money. For me, I'm not wired that way. I just can't do it. I've had fighters make hundreds of thousands of dollars in a fight and not pay me a penny. You couldn't pay me if you tried. I take Pepsi Max as payment. They slip me a gift card sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. Like they'll try. wait what can i get coach can i i want to get a new pair of shoes how do you guys find time like do you or do

you even need it how do you find time for yourselves not not just as a couple but just even like how does jessica find some you know time away from being a mom and being a wife and being a CrossFitter and everything else you're doing. Hockey. No, for both. Like we go every year. Halloween is our big thing. So our big vacation is doing all the holidays. When I go away for fights that are in places that she finds interesting, I take her with me.

Yeah. He's like, oh, fights in Italy. I'm like, I'm in. You better grab that ticket. Yeah, exactly. But I mean like I'm in you better grab that ticket yeah exactly um but I mean I have to be honest I mean she's my favorite person in the world right 25 years I there's no one I want to be around literally I don't so it's super easy to make time for yourself be with each other because that's the person that I just want to be with all the time

um so I'm with her every day and all I do yeah we work in the same building too so it's not like but although we go a lot without saying like we're in two separate but she can't walk i can't walk past i can't walk to the restroom without him stopping teaching class and flirting i will stop in here but every yeah he'll flirt he'll call me out any class i'm teaching no matter what i'm doing when she walks by i'm going to stop the class and I'm going to flirt with my wife. Because one, I want everybody to see how much game I have. Because I spit some serious shit. Yo, woman.

Yo, you look good. Come over here. Two, because I want them all to believe that I don't actually pay her to like me. And three, because she just makes me happy man you know and uh and so yeah i don't i don't know a lot or what oh man i can't say the things that i say to her but uh yeah i mean when i go home i'm with her when i'm at the gym i'm with her we make time outside of the gym sure yeah we a lot of it is just eating out, to be honest. We go to dinner all the time. Unfortunately, genetically, some of that is really showing on my end because, again, my workout is just getting beat up for a living.

And, again, that's the excuse I give myself. But at the end of the day, when I'm tired of being fat, I'll just have to actually train. Because I had three different jobs, and I was day, when I'm tired of being fat, I'll just have to actually train. Right. You know, because, you know, I could, you know, I had three different jobs and I was fighting and I was teaching and I was in great shape. And I was far busier then than I am now. Jessica, do you worry about him a little bit? Like, because he is like taking physical abuse. All the time. All the time.

But you can't, I can't tell him anything. He's not going to do anything. He can't tell him. He does what he does. Have you had to tell him that he needs to fucking slow down on anything? I do it all the time. I do it all the time. Do you ever listen?

No. No. No. At some point, I'm like, you know what? Actually, I've given up. I used to do that all the time. Now I'm like, you do that to yourself. You chose to do that.

But he says that to me, too. So if I get injured in hockey or something, he's like, you chose to do that. So we give it back to each other. Yeah, your back hurts because you're smashing people in hockey. He walks up the stairs. He can barely get up the stairs. I was like, well, here we go again. Somebody else could probably hold the pads, but not really.

I've pushed for it. MJ does too. Who's going to hold the pads? Let me ask you. This is a legitimate question. I get this all the time. It's like, okay, well, let me, you know, number one, everybody wants daddy's love. That's just that's not a joke. That's not. That's the truth. Right.

Every every bad everybody wants my attention in my gym. They're there for me. They're there on the promise that I'm going to lead them to the promised land, that I'm the one that's going to help get them through to their world title, to make them UFC champion, to make them glory world champion. Is that true or is this egotistical? No, it's true. It's 100% true. I don't know. It's not egotistical. I don't know.

It's not egotistical. It's not. It's the responsibility that I chose. So, you know, am I going to do it? I'm going to die trying. This isn't me claiming to be the world's greatest coach and I'm going to lead them to the promised land. But that's what they believe. And that's what they need to believe. They need to put their trust in somebody and they need to believe that I've got the information and the back round and the plan to get them where they need to be. need to be. So now tell that person that's moved from all around the world, like you said, to come and live at CSA without dorms that I'm a little too busy to hold. I'm going to be there every step of the way, except for holding pads and except for, and except for this, except for that.

It doesn't, it doesn't happen. It just, it doesn't happen. So I don't begrudge it. It's just literally, it's, it's difficult to manage sometimes. Like I'll do 50, 60, 70 rounds of pad work with some of the best fighters in the world every day. Well, I've also chalked this up to the fact that this is what this man loves doing. Oh, absolutely. Right? So we're dealing with, you know, I love my husband.

He's the best husband in the world. I wouldn't ask for anything else. Hey, what's up? I like that. But as his wife who loves him same thing with our friend like with with what you said about finding time for us too like he does travel a lot he does spend a zillion hours at the gym and as a family we've sacrificed his time right but at the same time that's what he loves to do why would i bother taking that away that's what makes him

happy he wouldn't take hockey away from me, right? It's what makes, he's always been about whatever makes you happy. You do that. It's the same thing. You know, he obviously, that's, this is what he loves to do. It's his baby. He loves doing it. He's passionate about it.

Do kids ever say, hey, where's dad? Like, can you stop going to the gym so much? I don't know that they've actually ever said that. Razor blade at all? No, No. Have I spent more time with my kids at my gym than I have my kids in life? Yeah. Yeah.

But that's the way you make it work, though. You integrate it in. So the kids come to the actual gym. Yes. Yes. Yes. My son works at the gym. My daughter, you know, she'll work Sundays at the gym under the table.

Don't tell Cal she started she started finally working out this summer yeah yeah so I've never forced the gym on my kids I've never forced my kids to do anything that they didn't want to do that I didn't feel was a value you know I had my son doing martial arts when he was younger for self-defense you know my daughter as well things like that I'm comfortable they can take care of themselves. But I've never forced my dream on them. My son's a musician. My daughter likes to act and dance. So I'm not that overbearing father that, you know, demands that they do certain things as long as they're happy and they're safe and they're following their dreams and their passions. So we've got two starving artists

that will be living with us forever. That's what he's saying true story true story um very good possibility but uh yeah mark fucker thanks thanks for bringing that up yeah i i i absolutely struggle with uh how much i give my kids versus my gym. However, on the flip side, the kids have never said that. I will say that, yeah. And our relationship as parents with our kids are freaking great, man. We've got some great kids. Yeah.

Like, they understand what his job is, and they've never said anything bad about it. No, no. I don't think I've ever told you that, but they haven't. It doesn't mean that I'm not guilty. And we have some great conversations at dinner sometimes where we're talking about social issues and everything else. And we're so open with our kids that they really tell us just about everything. Bad, good, ugly stuff you don't really always want to talk about.

Right. You know. And we're pretty lucky. Yeah. We're pretty lucky. Yeah. you don't really always want to talk about. Right.

You know. And we're pretty lucky. Yeah. We're pretty lucky. Yeah. Well, I think it's also important to point out, like, you just absolutely shouldn't be there all the time for your kids, too. Yeah.

Like, you just shouldn't be. Like, they, like, we talked earlier about, like, working shit out. A little bit of tough love. Yeah, you gotta sometimes work some shit out. And, like, I remember when I was a kid, my dad was working all the time. And you said you grew up without a dad there.

Like, people grow up different ways. And sometimes, sometimes it's good that the parent's not there all the time and you said you grew up without a dad there like people grow up different ways and sometimes sometimes it's it's good that the parent's not there all the time the child can you know but they've always understood the dynamic and his job now because it's at the gym they actually i mean we see you more now than when you were doing ep when he was doing ep and heading up steel foundation we we didn't see it all i was in haiti my son's first birthday his first step in this first chase his first steps because he was but that's very normal amongst people that are trying to be successful and amongst a successful household that's able to keep it all together because someone's got to go out and work you know but my dad my mom actually

kind of stopped my dad like dead in his tracks since he was like you're working way too much and he was like he didn't even wasn't even aware of it he didn't even like know you know i've i've always been a workaholic yeah always yeah it's just his nature but we i've also you know the kids understand that though i mean we've talked about it they understand that yeah it's kind of just you know this is what we do to make sure everyone has what they need you You just had a rotator cuff surgery? I did, and bicep tendon. What happened? He beat you again? Right in the middle of the grocery store, yeah.

Right in the middle of the grocery store, again. Same grocery store, too. No, I think there was some wear and tear there, but I was playing hockey. Yeah, I got hit and fell, and when I got up, it wasn't the same. And over a couple months, I still was doing muscle ups and everything else.

I didn't, I was just like, oh, it hurts really bad. Oh, God. It finally didn't get better, so I got an MRI. And they're like, yeah, it's completely torn. I think they put two anchors in my supraspinatus and then fixed the bicep tendon. You've had a couple surgeries? Yeah, I've had two ACL as well.

Both knees? No, I've had two ACL as well. Both knees? No, same knee actually. Well, I had one like over, I don't know, 15 years ago playing hockey. I actually went to nationals without having it fixed. And after I did nationals, then I got it fixed. And then about, you know, 12 or so years later, I went in with my own MRI. I thought I had a bone spur and they're like, no, your ACL is gone. It's been gone for like two years. And I was like, well, leave it alone. I just made made CrossFit games I'll get it fixed when I'm done. I remember you were like what can I put on my knee that you have that will help I don't have an ACL I'm like I don't know if I have anything that's for that specifically. The doctor was like everything was so strong around it he goes if you hadn't brought

in an MRI I wouldn't have known that it was completely torn wow yeah and I mean power lifting and CrossFit I mean that made that made everything strong to be honest he goes if you can keep it that way and handle games I said yeah I actually I had that appointment after I squatted 280 actually and I had just done regionals and I was like no I can make it through games I'll be fine I'll get it fixed when I get back and then I got it fixed and then made games eight months later. You got strong really fast when you got into powerlifting. I remember you were like. Well, you know, something that I think helped.

You went to a seminar. Yeah, that's what sold me, actually. Me and Fathead Burdick were doing. That's when I met you guys. Right, right. Yeah, and then Jesse was like, you should come out and play, you know. But it wasn't that long after. I mean, I was like, holy shit. out and play, you know, and it wasn't that long after. I mean, I, I was like, holy shit.

I think Jesse had me do my first meet. I think it was maybe eight months later or something like that. Six, eight months, six, eight months later. Yeah. But I think I had a base already because when I met Kieran, he had me in the gym right away lifting. And back then, like your 24 hour had a women's lifting section with like machines oh yeah yeah and there were no women in the free weight area but i went zone yeah kind of like

everybody was in today but i didn't know anything about a gym when i met him so we i would go with him and use the free weights with him like i didn't and i already played i was playing hockey i didn't even go on the cardio. I wasn't always fat. Yeah. So, you know, for a long time, long time before CrossFit and powerlifting, I had already been lifting. I already, you know, now technique changed immensely. And my learning curve, yeah, was huge. Like all of a sudden powerlifting brought that out of me. And it actually helped. That's what actually helped me get to games to be honest if you in my opinion outside of hockey being the type of sport it is that feeds

into crossfit very well but my strength that i gained through powerlifting just made me realize new things i had no idea that i had that type of strength in me or that I'd like it so much, to be honest. What gave you confidence to do so many things that are like male dominated? Did you ever even think about it or you just did shit? No, because I kind of listen. A lot of things. I think everything that I've done, I've done because I like doing it. If I didn't like doing it, I wouldn't be doing it.

And so my whole life, to be honest, my whole life has been pretty much that way. If I like something, I do it. I didn't really care who was doing it or whether it was, you know, socially correct or whatever, you know, I just did it. And even though I might have been scared to do it or anything like that, like, oh, when I went on broken skull, I had no ACL when I got and when they called me back for that. And I told Karen, I was like, I'm worried about it, but I'm not going to pass up opportunity. You know, I scared or not. I didn't care. I was like, yeah, it's opportunity. You know, sometimes your, your fear is kind of makes it fun. What about being a chick with some muscle and some thick thick legs oh i've i've never had any issue with that no no i actually always felt pretty good about it yeah good about

it made me feel better about myself to be honest um i wasn't i wasn't the skinny girl growing up you know i was i was a cheerleader growing up and i was the base yeah i wasn't the one being thrown in the air i was the 5'2 stocky base. You know, my dad looks like a cross between a Viking and Santa Claus. That's a pretty good visual. It's a true story. It's true. It's true.

So I'm not surprised that I was able to put on muscle the way I do, but I didn't know that I'd like it that much. And I actually like, I mean, I'm a girl, so I still get self-conscious, right? Every now and then I'm like, oh man, this dress makes my arms look really jacked. But then I'm like, yeah, that's what I like. I like, I like feeling like that. I like being strong. I like the things that I can do. And when I started CrossFit even and powerlifting, um, funny enough, people, cause a lot of people go, I don't want to do this cause I want to lose weight. I actually didn't do that to lose weight. I did it because I thought it was fun. And everything else was a byproduct of that. Same thing with powerlifting.

That seminar sold me. I was like, yeah, this is fun. This is fun. This is challenging. Yeah. She came back to the gym. She was like, we need to start doing power with CrossFit. He was upset because at that time, Jesse wasn't at our gym.

He was at a different gym. And he was like, why am I giving another gym my money why am i giving another crossfit gym my money i was like because he's a good coach she was paying somewhere else to train with him i kind of didn't realize that's the oh yeah and i was like he's a great coach and that's what i want to do and so i was there until he made the switch to come to us. Yeah. Pretty fortunate. Jesse has been a great addition for the gym. Absolutely. And obviously, I'm bummed I'm going to miss the slingshot record breaker meet for the very first time. Oh, man.

I will be in Russia with the UFC. That's next weekend. Yeah. But you'll be there. She'll be there. Yeah, I'll be there. That's all we care about. True story.

Let's just be honest. I pretend like it matters I'll be making sure toilet paper rolls are filled let me tell you something when there's no toilet paper or paper towels in the bathrooms you're going to fucking miss me Mark I'm going to look at that last little piece of toilet paper and be like fuck

I shouldn't have talked shit to him I will tell you that some of my most stressful times at CSA have been during powerlifting meets. You powerlifting motherfuckers blow up more. Blow up more bathrooms. Men, women. It does not matter. I walk in and I do you you even aim is the question. Half the time.

That is interesting. How do you get poop on the bottom of like the lid and stuff? Like it's really amazing. All over the place. So yeah. Good luck this weekend without me. You'll, you'll recognize how. He's spoiled with fighters.

I feel like that's competition anyway. Cause even in hockey we go, you know, you take a pre-gamer, drop some kids off at the pool. I mean, that's normal. You got to get it out. Yeah. It's very true. Okay.

Well, guess who gets to clean it this weekend, honey? Well, no, I'm going to bring someone else in to do the men's room. I'll do the ladies. The fighters are always trying to make weight or something. So maybe they're not pooping as bad. Something like that. So, yeah, but I'm bummed I'm going to miss the meet where I'm excited about it. I'm really curious about this because you've done it and uh you guys probably have a lot of experience

with this with an individual that let's say you guys have a lot of crossfit athletes in your gym that are really good athletes but they've never fought before and they want to get into that and you never fought before but you got in you did really well how do they build a base to actually do well against like fighters that have been doing stuff since they were kids? So listen, Nate Diaz is not going to win a local CrossFit competition and a local CrossFitter is not going to win a fight against Nate Diaz. But at the end of the day, you can become proficient in fighting very quickly if you're serious about your training. You know, we have a lot of CrossFit athletes and that's part of the gym culture is we have a lot

of our fighters that do CrossFit. A lot of crossover. And I use it as their strength and conditioning program. And we have a lot of CrossFitters that will cross train in fighting, program. And we have a lot of CrossFitters that will cross train in fighting, that will do bag classes, that will do boxing classes, that will do jujitsu. It's a different type of conditioning and it's super beneficial for CrossFit. And CrossFit is super beneficial for fighting. For both sides, it's a nice break sometimes too. It's a way to mix it up. And you build a great culture. So I'll, I have a fighter fighting at a local event. I'll have just as many CrossFitters in the crowd supporting the fighter, which really, really helps sell tickets, which makes you more marketable to the promotions. So it's been a great fit.

But the reality is that a good CrossFit athlete can be good at fighting, and a good fighter can be good at CrossFit. Athleticism is just athleticism, to be honest. But just to get into it from starting ground up, you've got to be a little brave, right? Because then you go right back into that fear and intimidation, which most people are about fighting. But to be honest, there's a ton of fight people that come in to fight that are intimidated about CrossFit, too.

They're like, you guys are crazy. I'm not going in there. I mean, it's the same thing. I'm not going in there. Right? Yeah. I mean, it's the same thing. Either you're going to take the plunge or not, but I think there's no way. Just dive in. Open your mind. Let all your expectation go and dive in.

100%. What does the schedule look like for a pro fighter? Because when I was there, I think Gaston was maybe two weeks out from a fight or so. Right. And I saw him spar for a little bit, and then I saw him actually teach a class. Yep. And then he was saying he was there since 9 or 10 o'clock in the morning, something like that. Sure, sure. So what does the schedule look like for some of these guys?

It depends. But for a professional fighter, you're generally going to have someone that's doing two a days most of the time. And, you know, they're doing an early morning session and then they're doing an evening session or they're doing an afternoon session. Generally, anywhere from 12 to 15 training sessions a week is what you're going to get. And you try to break it up so that there's a rest break in between some active recovery days that are maybe a little lighter strength conditioning, you know, two, three days a week, uh, aerobic conditioning, uh, you know, four to five days a week, uh, and then skill specific training, uh, every day. Um, you know, some days it'll be a little more grappling centric. Some days it'll be a little more striking centric. Um, but there's an artwork

to programming for fighting, um, and the strength conditioning for fighting as well. Uh, I'm pretty comfortable, uh, you know, knock on wood. I've never had a fighter gas in a fight in 10 years. I've had two fighters miss weight. So as far as that side of things, we've got a pretty good program and a pretty good dial on strength and conditioning. And again, CrossFit's part of it. Not every athlete, like Kevin Ross, you know Kev. He struggled keeping weight on.

CrossFit was not a fit for him. So he started doing power with Jesse. And that helped him keep weight on. And he worked with Norm out in Vegas too. You know, so CrossFit's not for every fighter. You know, I don't force them to do it. But, you know, if it's a good fit, then we'll do it. If not, then, you know, we'll do more body weight and conditioning level.

then, you know, we'll do more body weight and conditioning level. What I will say to anybody in fighting is you probably need to spend more time on your aerobic base. Right. And I was saying that I can't demonstrate much of anything else. We can't demonstrate anything. And it's fatigued. And it's the same with like a high level CrossFit athlete. Right. You know, you have to have an aerobic base because, you know, in fighting, there's a, there's a huge push and been a huge push to interval training and anaerobic training. And I'm going to do very fight specific one minute stations of this, this, this, this, and a five minute round. And that's how I'm going to get into shape without understanding

the physiology of the fact that the aerobic energy system rules every energy system and the aerobic energy system is the one that is going to help you recover quickly right um which has less of an impact on maybe power lifting as a sport but with crossfit or fighting the ability to recover in a minute right and get your heart rate back down under 120 beats a minute to go back out and do it again i'm really good at that. Is super important, right? And that was always Jessica's, you know, how she made the games and how she was successful. I think that's from hockey, though. Was because she always had a gas tank, you know, like a Sam's Briggs gas tank.

Maybe not the strongest, most technical Olympic lifter or natural gymnast, but, you know, you need to do that chipper and you need to get the work done. Jessica just doesn't get tired. Never has, never will. She didn't get tired fighting either. And again, a lot of it did come from hockey. Just because of the style of that sport. Go, go, go, go, go.

Short shift, long, go, go, go, go. For an hour. For an hour. So yeah, it's explosive stop, explosive stop. But it's explosive stop for an hour, which is going to stimulate your aerobic energy system. Right. Right. Is that why boxers use road work. They run. Yeah. The ability to do, and some people don't like to run. Some people can't run. Um, you know, if you can run, I want you to run just mentally. There's nothing more important than the ability to run. Right. You don't want to run. You have to run. You don't want to stop. You don't want

to keep going. You can't stop. You have to keep going. So the ability to push yourself running is hard to replicate. People, oh, well, I swim. A motherfucker, you don't swim well enough to stimulate your aerobic energy system. You're in there flapping around. You're not swimming with technique for 30 to 40 minutes. If you can, swimming's great. But most people aren't trained well enough to swim to use it for aerobic capacity training. Running is easy. It's mentally hard, but physically, if you don't have an injury,

running is the best way to stimulate the aerobic energy system. If you can't, okay, then we'll get on a rower, then we'll get on a bike, then we'll get on an airdyne, then we'll get on a VersaClimber, then we'll find lots of other options. But the key is 30 to 40 minutes a day with your heart rate between 130 to 150 beats a minute conversational pace that is going to stimulate your energy system through your aerobic energy system for fighting and so no

matter what we do in fighting that is always a tenet of mine that that's going to happen and you know endurance athletes use the same thing and they they actually get kind of frustrated because they would like to train at a higher heart rate they would like to actually have something be a little more difficult right but that's the sweet spot that that that is and that's what and that's what that's not the only thing we do with fighting but of everything in strength conditioning that's the piece i feel in mixed martial arts that's neglected the most now. I think everywhere. I think football.

I think everything. I think – and I love the weight room and I love to see people lifting weights. But you can't demonstrate a 600-pound deadlift if you can't breathe. True story. You can't show how good your technique is or how strong you are, how explosive you are. As soon as you're tired, you're toast. Yeah. I forget what the exact percentage is because I haven't looked at the study in a while.

But in that 100 meter dash, 80% of the energy is the aerobic base. Right. Because you're going to blow through the lactic in seconds. And then now you'll start to pull from the anaerobic. And everything that starts to pull back, it's the aerobic energy system that starts to fill in as you go through. And that's what the fastest sport in the world right the 100 meter dash your aerobic energy system is important in that and in fighting fighting's been around long enough now that there are actually some really good studies with mixed martial arts the standard explosive exchange in a fight is anywhere between eight and 22 seconds, right? So it's been around

long enough that there's actually data where you can look at the averages in a fight, go, go, go, go, go, explode, explode, explode, whether it's grappling or striking eight to 22 seconds. So the energy systems that you need to be able to do that over a 15 or 25 minute fight, right, means that all three energy systems have to be balanced, right? You can't ignore the ATP, you can't ignore the anaerobic, and you cannot ignore the aerobic energy system. And, you know, for me, that's a huge part of why I think we're successful is just understanding that math of how much time needs to be spent under tension and how much time needs to be spent at what heart rate for conditioning. Yeah. I also think, uh, even the most well-trained

athletes in the world can really only go as hard as they possibly can without seeing a kind of diminished returns for about eight to 10 seconds. So in that scenario that you're pointing out eight to 22 seconds, like that's a long ass time. It is. And you better have something else to draw upon. If the explosive just starts to wear out, you better still be able to breathe and still be able to recover from the activity that you just did. Absolutely. And again, that's the same with CrossFit. And I think that, you know, Rich latched onto that early, you know, he would He would do 30 minutes of rowing every morning. He would do 30 minutes of biking every night until he was exposed that his running sucked and then he had to start running to continue to be competitive. But that level of aerobic capacity training, and obviously Chris has been very successful in highlighting that within the community as well, you know, no matter what sport you're doing. Is it driving you crazy that you can't train right now?

Yeah. I literally am like. No, it's driving me crazy. I've been dreaming of even doing push-ups at this point. And my six-week appointment is. Dreaming? Like for real? Yeah, I actually did have a CrossFit dream the other day.

But I told Karina. I'm pretty sure I was in it and I was half-dressed at the time. Right? Those are the kind of dreams you're having? My six-week appointment, I think I'm going to ask the doc if I can use the safety squat bar and the spider bar. That's my favorite anyway. So I was like, maybe I can, you know, I don't know. You think you'll let me?

I don't know. How do you approach these surgeries and these injuries, though? Because when we were talking before the podcast, your doctor would tell you to keep it in a sling, but you keep it moving and you've always managed to apparently recover fast. Well, number one, PT, PT, PT. Like I just if they I need a list. Right. When I go in, I'm like, hey, physical therapy, my first appointment. I'm like, I need a list of what to do.

And then whatever they tell me to do, like three times a day. I day I'm like okay that's 10 times a day that but what am I doing we own a gym I'm in a gym I'm not sitting at a desk day job so I have all the opportunity in the work all day long to do passive range of motion and as an athlete and the fitness industry I need my range of motion back first so I I don't rush like the strength will be there. You know, I know how to do strength. I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about making sure that I have my range of motion. I don't have, you know, frozen shoulder, those sort of things.

A lot of doctors aren't in tune with the trees. They just have their cookie cutter, you know, cut out of what their objectives. A few doctors are really with that. Kaiser, unfortunately, I think needs to figure things out, but. That's where our insurance is right now. But I, with her, like after her knee, her, her knee surgery, she was in a range of motion machine. Like literally, I guarantee you, most people are not in the range of motion machine.

They didn't charge me for it. They didn't charge me for the range. Cause I actually sat in it six hours a day, two hours at a time, three times a day. Most people won't do that. And in three days, four days, I was at full range of motion with my knee and they said, we're not even going to charge you for this.

Post total ACL replacement, meniscus surgery repair. I was off my crutches in four days. Because range of motion. And actually, I have video two weeks later in my brace. I was doing, I believe it was like 205 dead pin pull in my leg brace. I showed it to my doctor. I was like, how's this? And he's like, all hamstrings and you're not bending your knees.

So that's cool. I just raised the pin right below the kneecap just so I can get some hammy pull, you know, to do something. And it's the same with the shoulder. She's supposed to be in the brace eight weeks, Kaiser PT. They've given her two exercises in five weeks. Yeah, I hired someone outside to go to two times a week. But it's about being smart, I feel like, once you have surgery. I'm not afraid of surgery because you have to be smart with your PT.

And in my mind, if it doesn't hurt, if your movement doesn't hurt, you're not damaging anything, right? So, you know, if you set those parameters, even people who have injuries in the gym too, same thing. I'm like, okay, well, what's the injury? Let's work around it. If anything hurts, we change it. Yeah. Right. Because if it doesn't hurt, you're safe. You know, so that's kind of my rules with injuries. You seem like you, you know you know, we'll follow a template really well when it comes to your nutrition plan. I know you mentioned you're not really adhering to anything super strict now, but what are the ways that you used to eat when you're competing? Oh, when I'm competing,

actually, listen, my diet, my diet, my ideas on diets, whatever you can wrap your mind around will work. Yeah, I think diets are really mental, more mental than people. People let it get too mental, right? It's really not an issue. I think if you have a diet and it works for you and you can stick to it, great, right? I've done a few things that my first, first time I had a diet was for my first fight and it was after my first, my second child, which I was at five to 198 pounds. Um, a year later, I think I was about one 50 and I had to fight at one 30. So eight weeks right now, uh, right now I'm hovering around one 40 to be honest. Yeah. But I'm more muscle now than I did back then. Back then it was, everything was brand new. Um, ideally I like to be 135 to be

honest. I'm going to go there. But, um, so what, what I'm saying is my first, my first eight weeks, I, Kieran just put me on a calorie count. I stuck to 12 to 1600 calories a day. That's all I did. And this guy wanted to go to like fricking Wendy's. And I was like, I'll have a chicken sandwich, no sauce. I'd take the meat out of the bun and eat the chicken and the cheese. And that was, you know what I mean? Counting, looking the calories up online. That was way back when that was the first thing I did. It worked eight weeks. I was down 20 pounds. Right. I didn't even have to cut weight in the sauna really. And then the second time was for power lifting. And, um And I messed that one up a little bit because Jesse had me do carb backloading. Yeah. Right. And in the first, I'd say like five

days, I think I thought I was going to have a heart attack one night. I was like, I'm having an anxiety attack here. And he's like, eat some damn carbs. Right. And I was like, OK. And I kind of fell off. And then I did the Dolce diet for that one. And that worked. Dolce diet worked great because I could stick to it. It was an easy plan, right? Which still was minimal carbs, but more carbs than carb backloading. The third time I tried carb backloading again. And what I realized the first time I didn't have enough fats, right?

That's what I was missing was my fats. So the second time I did it, dropped into keto right away, had my fats, had no issue whatsoever. I PR'd my lifts, had all the energy in the world. I felt like it was just the easiest thing ever. So from there, now I kind of cycle through that. So if I'm not watching what I eat, not that I'm a terrible eater anyway, but if I need to watch my weight, I go right back into very low carb. It's the easiest thing. It works for me.

It feels good to me. How do we get this guy on a diet? What are we going to do? This is an all-American... Is this an invention? This is the reason for the show. I've been waiting for this for quite a while. Come on, buddy.

We can make some small changes, can't we? No. Honestly, man, it's not even diet. It's exercise. He actually doesn't even eat that much. It sounds like bullshit, but I don't eat that much. But my body's adapted to what I do. You're not getting extracted.

Me holding pads for two hours a day, the average person, they would lose weight. I don't because my body's adapted to it. So I have to make the time for myself. That's it, 100%. And if I don't make the time for myself, my life is going to be a lot shorter. What about these sodas I see you drink? I see you drinking some sugar. Diet Pepsi Max IV.

Oh, Diet Pepsi? Diet Pepsi. He doesn't drink regular soda. No, I don't. I do. She does, I don't. She's a Mountain Dew girl. I won't touch a diet soda.

If I want a soda, I want a real soda. Have you tried some intermittent fasting? I don't know. Do I do that? I don't eat for a long time and then I eat something? Well, I kind of do that by accident, to be honest, because I go to bed at like 1 a.m. But we finish eating about 9 or 10. And I don't eat until like 1 or 2 in the afternoon the next day by accident, to be honest.

I don't think about it. What's the worst thing? What's the worst part of the day, food-wise? Me? Probably what I eat for dinner. I don't eat. He kind of only eats dinner. Yeah, he eats like once a day.

I don't know about this. No, it's true. It's true. He might make a trip to 7-Eleven. I don't know about this. No, it's true. It's true. He might make a trip to 7-Eleven. I think there's some ice cream somewhere. No, no. If there's ice cream. Oh, come on.

We're going to check your garbage. No, don't. Stop. Stop. There's always ice cream at our house. If there's ice cream, there's ice cream. But if you're going to tell me that a bowl of ice cream and two tacos is going to make you fat, then it's not that much food. And again, at 47 years old, you know, I am not timing my meals appropriately.

I'm not eating the right foods enough at the time of the day or the timing of intermediate fasting, intermittent fasting combined with a lack of strength, conditioning and cardiovascular exercise is the challenge that intermediate fasting, intermittent fasting, combined with a lack of strength conditioning and cardiovascular exercise is the challenge that I have. Because literally, I'll wake up, I'll go to my gym, I'll teach my classes, I'll hold pads, I'll do what I do, and then I'll deal with fights, and I'll deal with this, and I'll deal with that, and I'll come up with a million different excuses

that keep me from making time for me. And it's all bullshit. It's all bullshit. And you've been a huge fan of CrossFit. Have you done CrossFit workouts? Absolutely. I am the CrossFit affiliate holder. Only strict pull-ups, though, for this guy.

He doesn't kip. I don't kip. No, just strict pull-ups. I've seen him do Cindy with all strict pull-ups. I'll let you know that I got 18 rounds of Cindy with strict pull-ups. Thank you very much. That's terrible. All right?

That's a lot of rounds. And my 522 Fran wasn't that bad either with strict pull-ups. Thank you very much. That's terrible. That's a lot of rounds. And my 522 Fran wasn't that bad either, the strict pull-ups. So, no, and listen, I used to be in phenomenal shape. She'll tell you. I mean, I was. I've seen some pictures. Yeah, I was in phenomenal shape. Well, I just want to encourage you.

That's all. And I appreciate that. I'm not trying to air out your dirty eating habits. No, no, no. Listen, listen. Joe Rogan did the same thing to me. Thanks. Thanks, no. Listen, Joe Rogan did the same thing to me. Thanks. Thanks, Mark.

So I need to realize that when I go on a podcast, we're going to talk about how hot my wife is and how fucking fat I am. So thanks. Good looking out. I like you that way. It's fine. I'm very lucky.

Oh, she likes that. It's hot. Yeah. Fluff. Jessica, will you set him straight, please? I don't know. Fluff. It's soft and white.

So that's what I thought of. Marshmallow. No. Whoa. No? That's how Mark likes him. Must be. That's how Mark visions me.

Right. Rock hard, Mark. Rock hard. Oh. Now I think we might be talking about something different. We usually are. We usually are. We absolutely are. Did I say that?

Most of the time. Out loud? Out loud. Is that your inside voice? So he crashed a car, you said, right? What? Oh, when we first met, yeah. We rented a car to go down south.

He was trying to impress me, and he backed up and go far away. Wait, who was going down south? Both were going down south? In a Taco Bell bathroom. What? What? Who? Who? Where? Who?

Where? Everywhere? No. I don't think you guys are the only ones. I think Taco Bell makes everybody really horny. Well, it's my preferred fast food. It is your preferred fast food. You know why?

Because they serve Mountain Dew. She told me that. And KFC. KFC serves Mountain Dew as well, yes. KFC and Taco Bell. Do you do the Mountain Dew Code Red, though? No, I'm an OG. OG, I like OG.

What about the Baja Blast? My kid likes that, though. Yeah, I want to go back to Taco Bell for that soda. That's the reason. In college, I used to swing through Taco Bell at 6 a.m. for an extra large Mountain Dew instead of coffee. Same thing. Nothing to eat.

Wow. Yep, and race off to my classes in college. How does that not kill somebody? Well, I don't have it as much anymore. I just say when I want a soda, I want a real soda. I understand that. If I'm an inspiring gym

owner, like I'm probably doing a lot of research and eventually I'm going to fall upon CSA Gym. I'm going to figure out everything you guys are doing. I'm going to look around and be like, holy shit, they do so much all under one roof. Did you guys ever once think that maybe we're spreading ourselves too thin? Because looking at another, let's say even like a a jiu-jitsu school they specialize in that one thing a boxing school they specialize in that one thing a crossfit box powerlifting etc so i yeah i mean uh so no never once did i think that the model would be unsuccessful because i knew the model can be successful uh and that's a big can be successful. Uh, and that's a big can be successful. Um, you know, when I first

opened CSA, the model was so unique. Uh, Jason, uh, he started doing combat sports in, in cross in NorCal CrossFit. Uh, one of my fighters ran his Muay Thai program. Um, uh, the jujitsu coach that he had there was my jujitsu coach in the first gym that I was at. And a lot of people tried to replicate up my model. And Jason figured out quickly he needed to focus on what he was really, really good at. My background was so diverse in what I was doing. I had enough subject matter expertise that if a jujitsu coach comes and leaves, it's not going to impact my membership base. If a CrossFit coach comes and leaves, it's not going to impact my membership base. If a Muay Thai coach comes and leaves, it's not going to impact my membership

base. Uh, you know, uh, Jason's jujitsu coach, if he leaves, there goes Jason's jujitsu program, right? Kyle Tara, one of the best jujitsu guys in the world, one of the best competitors. When he, he used to teach at my gym and when he opened up his gym in San Jose, he followed my model. He had Krav Maga, he had Muay Thai and he had jujitsu and his gym struggled. He just does jujitsu now and he's got hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of members because it's what Kai O is really good at. When you try to do things that you don't have the subject matter expertise in to manage as a gym owner in eventually you're going to fail. Right. I'm just fortunate that I had Muay Thai experience.

I had Krav Maga experience. I had CrossFit experience. I had experience in the subject matter that we were offering, and I was running gyms in those subject matters. So literally every single athlete in my gym, from CrossFit to powerlifting to Krav Maga to Muay Thai, calls me coach. I've coached my wife to the CrossFit Games twice.

I'm not a CrossFit games athlete. Right. You know, I've trained UFC champions. I never fought in the UFC. I was a Muay Thai guy. I was a kickboxer. That was my background.

But I have enough subject matter expertise in the base system to be able to design it. So if you can have that subject matter expertise available to you, diversity will always be more successful than one plane of attack. But if you don't, just focus on what you're good at. That would be my advice to potential gym owners. That and location, location, location. Yeah, location you guys are in is great. Well, and that was by design. Literally, most people aren't going to travel more than 10

minutes to go to a gym, right? That's just the standard statistic. So how close you are to freeway traffic is going to expand your pull. So the first gym that I opened up in San Jose, I made sure that I had two freeways interjecting and intercrossing where we were. So I had the 101 and I had the 680 on either side of me. And here at our gym in CSA, I have the 580 and the 680. So literally my 10 minute pole goes all the way up into Danville, goes all the way out to Livermore, goes all the way down to Fremont. We have people that where we're at, we have people that actually don't live. They live like an hour away, but their commute, we're on their commute way. So they stop at the gym and then they miss traffic going home.

And that was all part of the buildup plan of the socioeconomic plan and the location and the demographic of where we were. So as a gym owner, you have to research that because you can be in the same city I'm in, but 10 minutes away from the freeway and you're not going to pull the same people that I pull. So there's a lot of thought that goes into where to put your gym, uh, just as much as what to do in your gym. What about opening up another gym? I actually am opening up another gym. Oh, awesome.

Yes. Cool. Yeah. In Walnut Creek. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's been Jason's kind of business model all along.

He's like, yeah, people don't. Maybe there's some people listening to this that live in a slower area, like where there's not as much traffic. You know, where you guys are at, there's a lot of cars on the road, right? There's a lot of traffic in Northern California. And so it's people, I mean, I hear people still say it, like even where I live in Davis, and it's not that hectic over there. People are like, I'm not going to the other side of town. Like they Like they act like it's crazy talk or I'm not driving to Sacramento and Sacramento is 15 minutes away. Yeah, you can have a gym in San Francisco

and be down on Ocean Avenue and you think, oh, I've got a gym in San Francisco. There's a million. No, you're pulling nobody. You're 10 minutes from nowhere, you know, and people don't have cars there. So, you know, location is huge. So yeah, we are, you know,

every time we've talked about opening another gym, we've expanded our gym, right? So we had a three-year lease where we were, you know, and in three. So yeah, we are, uh, you know, every time we've talked about opening another gym, um, we've expanded our gym, right? So we had a three year lease where we were, you know, and in three years we opened up another one. Then we had a five year lease. And in five years we opened up another one. And both times we were in that gym, we expanded again within the building that we were in or across the street. This particular spot, we're in a seven year lease and we're two years in. So right around that time is when we talk about expanding well i can't expand so now we're going to expand brand uh my partner and i are going to open up um uh a um boxing fitness uh boutique boxing fitness gym i thought you're gonna say gay bath house i was gonna be like i want to be there

for the grand opening they're they're soft and fluffy and white they're soft fluffy and white i'm there yeah that's the name actually the soft fluffy and white. I'm there, yeah. That's the name, actually. The Soft, Fluffy, and White Gay Bathhouse and Fitness Center. I'll lead the table showers. Excellent, excellent. If you don't mind. No, Mark, anytime. You get a free Bitcoin pass for our Soft, Fluffy, and white gay bathhouse fitness center. I think that name's going to catch on.

That's terrible. It rolls right off the tongue. It does. It does. It does. So yeah, it'll be a fitness. It'll be more of a fitness boxing facility. It's going to be called Hooked.

My partner and I are building that out, and hopefully around January it'll be open. And eventually there will be another CSA. So this is a different brand. This is a different project um I'm a control freak though so the yeah the the the idea quiet in here um the the idea that's why I stay out of that part the idea of another of a of opening another gym that I can't be at every minute just drives me crazy. So until I figure that out and I figure out how to kind of replicate myself and clone myself and trust somebody enough to run the gym for me, it's going to be difficult to open a second CSA. But Hooked is a different subject matter. It's basically taking a model of our fighter conditioning program and offering it to the masses.

I think it's going to be incredibly popular. Keeping your gym neat and keeping your gym clean is huge too. And with MMA and just all the different shit that's going on in there. I mean, people are sweating their asses off in there. You guys do a great job. The place is always, is always clean from what I see. No, it is. And I'm, I'm there, uh, I'm there every day to help keep that in check and I'm OCD. Uh, but we have a hygiene policy for our, our mats. You know, you have to go through foot cleaning stations. You know, we, uh, we sanitize our mats before every grappling session. We've got body foams that are provided. We've got body wipes that we provided. We provide that. We don't charge our students for that. It's all part of the program. We spend hundreds and

hundreds of dollars a month on, uh, hygiene products our members that do mma and uh just because anytime you've got a skin-to-skin contact sport there's a risk of uh communicable skin diseases um you know which is quite common in mma gyms knock on wood we haven't had an outbreak of anything in a very long time and we've had this new hygiene policy now i think going on three years it crazy. I've heard of ringworms so much, like within grappling. Ringworm, you know, easy. You know, staph, more dangerous. Matt herpes, yeah, you don't want that.

Ha! Ha! Yeah, yeah. That's a thing? Of course it's a thing. So you got a cold sore. You ready? And then you go and grapple.

And then you get your lips up on somebody's skin. What do you think you're doing? What do you think you're doing? There you go. Now you got mad herpes. Good job. Good fucking job. So you have to-

Now I'm looking at everybody's mouth like, ooh. Well, at our gym, he does body checks. We do partner checks. They do partner checks at our gym. We do partner checks when you grapple because you have to look at people's fingernails. How does the fungus get in? It gets in through tears. So you're scraping and scratching each other with fingernails.

Oh, it's a spider bite. Motherfucker, you haven't bitten from a spider since you were eight years old. That's not a spider bite. That's staph. Oh, you have to. You can do everything you want to sanitize a mat. You can do everything you want to provide a cleaning product. But if you're not doing partner checks and looking at the people that you're about to grapple with

you have no idea what you're about to get are we sure that this isn't like an urban legend and like some dude got caught cheating he's like no babe it's the uh the matt herpes matt and you will know matt herpes when you have it because literally you will take that cold sore from your mouth and now you will replicate it on your skin everywhere like chickenpox for the rest of your life. It'll never go away. Oh, God dang it, man. You just ruined these guys. Matt herpes.

And the top 10 reasons not to do jujitsu. It just ends with that. Yeah. Just one. Yeah. So it's very rare. It is difficult. it's very rare um it is difficult it's very rare but anything you do with skin to skin contact is a risk so how much are you sanitizing your facility is important well and educating like there's a lot there's a lot of

gyms i feel that just don't they want to ignore that like you walk into the bathroom with bare feet and then you walk back onto the mat what are you what are you doing right so we provide flip-flops and then we have a foot cleaning station that you have to get in and out of before you go back on the mat and you can't be in the bathrooms with bare feet how many gyms go to that extent yeah we do not many fight gyms well i've never seen anybody yell at people more than you like even though you have a calm demeanor yeah and i know you're like partially you're partially kidding because they're your buddies yeah sure uh because you have long term relationships with these people but yeah you're like he's like screaming at when i'm there he's screaming at people yeah being like what the fuck are you doing just you dumb ass what the fuck

is that what's going on what are you thinking uh at the end of the day we take it very seriously and uh it works so those of you that are out there doing mixed martial arts and grappling, if you're not doing partner checks, you are asking for trouble. What do you look for with mouth herpes? What do you look for? So here, I'll walk you through it, right? So when you're doing a partner check, you're going to do the following. One, you're going to look at their fingernails and their toenails.

And if their fingernails and their toenails are too long, then that means that they could scrape you and scratch you. they scrape that layer of skin it's easier for bacteria and fungus to get in all right so we keep the fingernails and the toenails clipped then we're looking at the skin for the most common skin conditions which is going to be ringworm and ringworm is a dry scaly patch that itches that's red or white and you can tell it easily if you know what ringworm is and that's skin to skin contact you got ringworm you're going to give it to somebody else. Staph.

Staph is generally going to be involved with a hair follicle or a piece of your skin. That's how it's going to get in, either through a scrape, a scratch, or a hair follicle when you're sweating and your pores are open, right? Everybody's got a degree of, you know, staph on them as it is. Some people are more susceptible to it than others. And then, you know, that becomes an infected pore or an infected wound. And literally, the more you squeeze it. Are you going to show it? Oh, gosh, I hate that.

That's just what is that? Matt? Well, it's I Google search Matt herpes. And this is what came up. Nasty wrestlers. Click on that one. Click on that one. Oh, my gosh.

Now imagine that. Oh, I've never I've never seen that before. I've heard of it. I've never seen it. Oh my gosh. Now imagine that everywhere. Oh, I've never, I've never seen that before. I've heard of it. I've never seen it. That's nasty. That is the coup de grace. That guy's going to be single for life. That is the one that everybody's afraid of if they're smart.

Right. So you're looking, you're looking for that. But the truth of the matter is, is that if you have a cold sore and you go into grappling, you're going to, I mean, mouths on faces and necks on arms and this and that. Also, side product, just for you because you seem really concerned. If you're with someone that has a cold sore and they touch your genitals, you now have other herpes. Oh, yeah. Okay. So then I know you know that.

I'm being facetious. But it's no different than the skin. It's the same exact thing. Right. So, uh, that's normally how people are going to spread Matt herpes. Somebody has a cold sore and then they grapple with it and then that gets on that person's skin. And then that person gets one and then that person starts to scratch it and now it's super contagious. And then it's rare, but it is literally the worst skin condition from grappling because it's forever. I mean, it'll, you know, like anything else, it'll go away.

Yeah. But it's always kind of there. That's. Waiting to come back. Listen, no joke. When we first opened up and I had to sweep the Jits mats, the first time I swept the Jits mats and saw all that hair that looks like pube hair, I was like, I'm never doing this. I'm never rolling with anyone but my husband.

Yeah. That was it. Everyone's got to wax. Gross. Exactly. So you got to clean your mats, man. You got to clean your mats it. Everyone's got a wax. Gross. Exactly. So you got to clean your mats, man. You got to clean your mats and that's what we do.

We spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars a month and hours a day cleaning mats and doing partner checks. Open mats. So that's why this is so concerning because I get a lot

of different partners and I don't check them like I should. Do you use body foam and stuff though? Body foam? Yeah, they have body foam that will protect you.

It gives you an extra layer of protection over your fascia. I'm going to buy some. Grab some of that. Then you don't have to worry about it. And then some body foam. You just spray it on or something? No, it's a foam.

And literally what it is is it goes over your exposed skin, and it gives you an extra layer of protection over your skin's natural fascia. So worst thing you could do, take a super hot shower before you grapple. Don't do that because you open up your pores, right? Next worst thing you could do, take a super hot shower before you grapple. Don't do that because you open up your pores. Next worst thing you could do, not shower after you grapple. You've got about 20 minutes to 30 minutes to shower once you're done grappling before things are going to kind of settle in and really kind of penetrate. So we have body wipes. So when somebody's done grappling, they grab the

body wipes, they use the wipes, boom, and then they get home and they take a shower. Just normal body wipes? No, no, no. They're special. Yeah, we use body defense wipes. I'll give you some links. Yeah. Ken Clean makes a good product. You know, Defense Soap makes

a good product. There are specific things designed to deal with staff ringworm mad herpes empathigo that kind of thing yeah how do you keep your this business going and like uh have a direct have a mission uh for csa right with so much diversity did you have like a team meeting here and there or i mean do you ever sit down with all the different coaches and do stuff like that? Not as much as I should. This control freak? Not as much as I should.

I deal with everything in the moment. I deal with everything in the moment. So should I? Yeah, I should. Do I? No, I don't. And you have a gym manager, right? No, that's me.

Oh, it's just you. That's just me, man. Oh, that's me. No, for the CrossFit coaches, I've had meetings. Yeah. Yeah. On my end. I just started doing it.

He wanted us to wait for him forever, and I was finally like, no, I'm just doing it. This needs to happen. So I do meetings. Yeah. For the CrossFit coaches. They have the rest of the gyms all. It's all me. Do you have some sort of vision of CSA that you still share with everyone individually?

Of course. Yeah. I mean, the culture is pretty clear, you know, and what I want to happen is pretty clear because I'm there. I'm there every single day. There's nothing that you want to know about CSA that I won't tell you, that I won't feed you with. You know, my coaches, I, you know, I program classes and structure and curriculum and, and, you know, the classes that I teach, you know, which is the majority of the classes on the MMA side for striking. And then I have other coaches that run the jujitsu and run the wrestling and I trust their subject matter expertise to be in line with what we need. But everybody works really closely with me. And as I said, I am a control freak. So there's nothing that happens in my gym that I'm not aware

of. Literally nothing. Have you read, well, yeah, and that's because of the trust that you built up with your team. Yeah. So someone's going to say, hey, you know, so-and-so said, and you're going to be like, oh. Right, but again, I'm also. You're going to learn about everything. Sure, but I'm also going to say it's not just, oh,

I've been running gyms for a while. I mean, I ran a multimillion dollar business for, you know, 15 years. Right. multi-million dollar business for you know 15 years right uh so from a corporate uh standpoint um i know i know how to manage a pnl as well so you know that helps and before you did that did you you know read any business books or did you go to school for business no i went to school for administration of justice i was going to be a police officer. Yeah. And so you just kind of learned everything as you went. Yep. And then you were able to maybe acquire this knowledge, uh, rapidly just, uh, due to like interest, you were just interested in some of these subject matters. Sure. Of course. Of course. And then, uh, again, I, um, I was running gyms for other people,

you know, so I started teaching martial arts when I was 15 years old. Yeah. Right. So, and, and I was, you know, trained on how to, you know, close people and how to sell and how to do this and how to do that. So by no means did this knowledge just come to me one night and in a dream, I had mentors and coaches that taught me how to teach, that taught me how to run gyms. And I feel that combined with my own personal kind of observations have led to a successful model in that, you know, the gym that I ran before I opened CSA is still open and highly successful following the model of self-defense fighting and fitness. The model works. Yeah. Jessica, have you had any backlash with your Instagram? I don't know if I still see the same Friday.

Oh, Fatass Friday? Fatass Friday. That was more for our own fun. Yeah, I don't know if I still see those same images, but I appreciated them. I'm sure there's probably backlash. I don't know that I know all about it. Like from like members or anything like that? No, actually, to be honest, even the ladies in our gym are like, you should bring that back.

We have a really supportive gym. We had an investor once that had a different vision than we did once. The majority of everything we've done at CSA has been organic. And then through the years, we've had different investors and we had an investor once that was, uh, was very much. And that's why we, you know, it's hard to work with people that you come in as you expand. It's just like, it always starts the same way. I love what you do. Uh, I just want to be a part of it. This is amazing. And then as soon as they're involved okay we need to change this this this this and eventually csa is you know curves all right and that's not what we do so

you know there was a little bit of that i think at that time we kind of laid off on it just because and again it's one of those things where you know if she wants to post a picture of her ass i don't care yeah i don't think whatever yeah you know but I don't care either. I've never cared about what everyone else thought. It's just like – It's really bad. You know, it's – I think that, you know, we were at a point where we were looking at expanding again and there might have been some potential investors and she was just like, eh, it's okay. If it's a problem, I won't do it. Yeah.

But it's not really anything. I mean, culturally, you know, CSA has always been very, very raw. You know, if you're looking like colleges, you know, you know, we would be more of the kind of UC Santa Barbara, USC or something like that. There's a lot of, there's a lot of intermingling in my gym. You know, a lot of hot women, a lot of hot guys, a lot of great fighters, a lot of great crossfitters. But you know what? This is my thought on that. Remember, one, that was fun for us.

Sure. I'll say that. It was probably more selfish than anything to put that out there. But from my standpoint, one, I'm 25 years loyally married to the husband that I love. Two, I'm almost 45 years old. Three, I work damn hard for what I'm doing. Absolutely. And I'm proud of that, and I'm happy to show that off.

I don't care what anyone else thinks about it, to be honest. If it's a cool picture, I'm like, great. Really, you want to show Matt herpes, but you're not going to show my wife's herpes? I mean, I have it pulled up, but... It's okay, you don't need permission. It's out there all over. Let's see.

Let's see. Where are we at? Which one? Sorry, my computer's a little slow right now. Come on. But yeah, I don't... There you go. Oh, I like that one.

That was a good one. There are some that he's put out. I'm like, I hate that one. But, you know, we're all critical of ourselves. Fat ass Friday. But yeah, I mean, shit, my mom didn't look like that at my age. You know, I'm like, yeah, I worked hard for that and I accomplished a lot. And I am proud of it.

I'm happy. And especially growing up as a girl, how self-conscious are we all the time? You know, and I'm like, wow, I never thought I'd look like that when I was growing up. I'm like, oh, that's cool. What about your own kids or your kids? Oh, they blocked me. Even Gaston blocked me. I think MJ might have blocked me.

Oh, my God. They're like, I can't look. It's my mom. My kids, well, Chase's friends probably didn't block me. My son's friends, yeah. No, they definitely didn't block you. They're probably like, your mom's hot. Mrs. Fitzgibbons.

I love coming over to your house. Watch your mouth. Jillian, I don't think cares. I don't think Jill cares. But Chase blocked me for sure. He's like, it's okay. I don't mind. You said like Gaston.

You mentioned that you've been training him since he was 15 yes he lived with us yeah actually uh I became his legal guardian uh when his parents moved back to Peru he wanted to stay in the states so um I became his legal guardian he moved in with me uh he went through high school he finished high school we've done a good job with him he's awesome I have he's an awesome human being he's a great kid and He's an awesome human being. He's a great kid. He's a great kid. And, you know, we had him finish high school and he started college with us and then decided he wanted to focus on professional fighting. And he did. And great kid.

Great kid. All the potential in the world. We've had 50 plus fights together since he was 15. Wow. One of the most talented, talented kids you'll ever meet. Really good kid too yeah um you know and someone that uh you know has uh has been a huge part of uh helping make the gym successful uh you know great coach uh always there to help me you know i don't have a huge staff

right i've got a wrestling coach i've got a jiu-jitsu coach um you know and then i've got my fighters that will pitch in on classes that I don't teach, but I teach the majority of them. When I'm gone, Gaston picks up a lot of the weight. I'll be in Russia leaving tomorrow. Gaston will teach a lot of my classes. Eddie will teach a lot of my classes. Soyla always teaches.

Jenna, Stephanie, who teaches the kids' program. Amber teaches the kids' program. Run down the list. We've got some great coaches. It must do a lot for them when they get an opportunity to coach, right? Well, I mean, it gives them an opportunity to make some extra money because fighting, you know, isn't for most people, you know, a million-dollar endeavor.

Now, for those that it is, it's fantastic, but the average fighter isn't making that much money. So, you know, that's another reason why I don't take money. Okay, so you just trained 12 weeks for this. You just made $5,000. You're going to give me a grand of it? I'm going to take my 20%? Yeah.

Come on. Are some fighters doing pretty well outside of the UFC? Yeah. I mean, Gaston is somebody who, of all the fighters that I coach and that I train and that I work with, because I've had Gaston the longest and because I'm like a father figure to with because I've had Gaston the longest. And because I'm like a father figure to him, he's listened to me the most. Um, and Gaston makes more money,

not fighting than most of my fighters make fighting. Wow. Um, and then in fighting, you know, six fights in, he makes a lot more money than most people do with MMA. So, you know, he's trusted me enough to help him, and it's worked out really well for him. You guys have done a great job of navigating waters with sponsors and stuff too. Yeah, yeah. We're very fortunate at the gym.

We have some tremendous sponsors. Monster sponsors us. CBDMD sponsors us. Triumph sponsors us. CBDMD sponsors us. Triumph sponsors us. ButcherBox sponsors us. We've had some tremendous support from sponsors and great relationships. And then I think, you know, there's a lot of value that our gym brings because we have such a popular social media following to sponsors as well. So it's a symbiotic relationship. And it's helped a lot of the fighters too. So there's fighters that are sponsored by monster uh and triumph because of the gym and it works for them really well

you know and again had great relationships with uh you know uh guys uh that are really important in the industry like hans molenkamp uh you know hans is tremendous huge fan of yours i think he was supposed to be on your podcast yeah yeah we'll get it we'll make it happen yeah hans is huge i'm gonna be in russia with hans as well he's going to russia Jesse. I see him kicking stuff out of people's hands all the time. He kicks stuff out of people's hands. He kicks stuff over people's heads. He kicks through bats. He's just a fun guy.

He's a fun guy and tremendously knowledgeable when it comes to the business side of marketing. He used to run Osiris Shoes and tremendous, tremendous background. And we've been very fortunate to have him as part of our growth with the gym. For the fighters listening, because I know a few fighters that are pretty young. They do pretty good. But they're struggling in terms of having money for food

and this type of stuff. What are they missing? Because you mentioned that since you've known Gaston, he's listened to you. So what do fighters not do? Um, so marketing, selling tickets, um, uh, not taking free t-shirts from everybody that offers. Uh, so there's some uniqueness in their brand. Um, you know, putting out a good story and message in their social media, um media and not just promoting themselves. You know, I mean, you know, half of my social media when Gaston was a teenager was me dropping water on him as a kid

because he's an narcoleptic and he couldn't help sleep, you know, you know, and not taking yourself too seriously, you know, you know, being approachable, being real, you know, and having people want to support you, You know, you know, Gaston had a huge, huge following at the gym and then he got divorced and one of them and two and he was married to a member. They came into, you know, they've been together a long time. That hurt him a little bit, hurt his ticket sales. You know what I mean? There's a little bit of that happens, you know, so you look at like fighters, it's those things that, you know, can kind of impact your ability. The more you can sell tickets. So, you know, I'm not going to go into what Gaston makes, but the reality is, is that his first fight with Bellator, you know, he sold almost $30,000 in tickets.

You know, and, you know, I think they're paying him. I think they're paying him two grand. So doing that enough. Now he's making more money than the tickets that he sold just because he could sell the tickets because he hustled yeah right um and promoted and has a good look too and oh he takes care of himself he speaks three languages yeah um you know he's really he always he had straight a's in school yeah we put him through his end of his high school it's all straight a's smart kid yeah so i think that's what fighters are missing a lot of the time is uh you know uh the stuff that happens outside of the ring, outside of the cage, the promotion that you have to do, the tickets that you have to sell, the relationships that you build.

Well, and you know what, Ghassan, too, he had a job. Yeah. Yeah, he was hustling for a while. Selling cars. He was selling cars. It wasn't beneath him to go get a job and make ends meet while he was training. and make ends meet while he was training. And I think that's a big part of it too is you look at fighters that don't want to,

yeah, that kid's a monster, man, that just want to fight and they just want to live that fighter lifestyle. And Gaston, he was selling cars on the side for years while he was breaking into fighting. And you can't be above having a job. Yeah. You know, and that's sort of what happens.

And again, there's a lot of training that goes into fighting. So, you know. You know, too, I think fighters that do have that, I think it gives them. Wait for it. There you go. It gives them more of a purposeful training time, right? Because you're out of the gym and your time is now more important. So you're not in the gym all day, you know, shooting the shit or wasting time at all.

You got to get in and get your shit done. Absolutely. Absolutely. So it's one of those things where it's important to know. Yeah, the kid's a monster. I can't talk while I'm watching him fight. But someone like that who's got the world at his fingertips is hustling and selling cars until he can make a living. And now he doesn't have to.

He makes enough money off of sponsorship that he can just focus on training and pay his rent. He's not living on somebody's couch. Wow. God damn, he's so talented. He's so explosive. I's couch. Wow. God damn, he's so talented. He's so explosive. I can't imagine that elbow. That elbow. That's vicious.

Jesus Christ. Absolutely brutal. But you're kind of saying basically that a lot of these fighters are just missing the point that they are the brand yep and uh they need to be someone that's marketable 100 you have to be marketable you have to be approachable you have to put yourself out there on social media uh and uh you know you have to hustle you you you know there are people you could be the best fighter in the world listen there are guys that make less money fighting in MMA that have more experience than Gaston. There are guys on the Bellator roster that have been fighting for Bellator longer that make less money than Gaston.

That's not Gaston's fault. Right. Right. It's their fault. Right. You also need to perfect your craft and become something exciting. Right. Gaston is not winning three round boring decisions.

He's finishing fights. Right. Right. And even the fights he's lost, know it's been exciting he's in a battle and he's in a battle until he's not he's the kind of guy who doesn't tap right his last fight he got choked uh you know a fight he was winning uh made a mistake and he got choked you know and literally he's the kind of guy that'll go from oh thumbs up and then all of a sudden he's asleep but no uh it it's one of those things where you know he's fighting at the highest level in one of the biggest promotions in the world and you're going to lose some fights uh you know he's winning way more than he's than he's losing i mean but at the end of the

day you also have to be able to bounce back from that right you look at some guys they just can't bounce back and you know gaston he's always bounced back really well. We've had 50, I think 52 fights. And in 52 fights across three combat sports, I think he's lost seven times. Wow. Wow. It's awesome. Yeah. And if any one of them broke him, there never would have been what's happening now.

Right. Yeah. Do you have any fighters now that are preparing to, they have an upcoming UFC fight or anything like that? Yeah, he's Russian next week. Yeah. Jesse Jess, right? So I got Jesse Jess in Moscow on Saturday. And then I've got Matt Schnell is in Korea in December.

And then I can't announce it yet, but Feely is fighting in January as well. So, yeah, we've got a bunch of guys on the roster. We've got Alexis Davis, Jesse Jess, Andre Feely, Benito, Emmitt Smith, excuse me, Josh Emmitt, and I was thinking football, Josh Emmitt and Andre Feely and my kid Alex Munoz just won a world title on Dana White's Looking for a Fight

and probably won a UFC contract. He may have won one. May have won his UFC contract in Hawaii just a couple weeks ago. So, yeah, we got a bunch of people, guys and girls in the UFC, and Bellator as well. That's cool. What else you got over there, Andrew? That was it, man.

I was just curious about the advice for aspiring gym owners because I know, like I said, somebody is going to be doing the right thing and doing research and stuff. And they're going to find you. They're going to find this podcast. We've had people come from overseas just to take pictures and watch our classes. Twice a year I do a coach's clinic. I have people come from all over the world. They come to CSA.

My last coach's clinic had 70 people from all over the world. And they come to CSA and I teach them our system start to finish everything we do, how we operate on my system, my combos, my sparring drills, how I run my fight team, uh, answer any question, how to wrap hands, how to work cuts, how to do, you know, several of them that are gym owners always talk to me about the CrossFit side to asking me, picking my brain about the CrossFit side. And then I've had lots of those people that have now opened up their second

and third location. They're not like me. They're not control freaks. So there are people that go through my coaches clinic that have two, three, four locations now just using our model. Yeah, next one will be in March. Sounds like you can write a book on all this. Really does. You could, actually. You could.

How did you guys make the leap to start the gym? I know you mentioned kind of briefly that you had a job simultaneously, but was there like an investment or anything like that? Did you have to sell someone on this idea? No. So I was running a gym for someone else and I was doing my day job and I had just really grown tired of the global security business. I was just always dealing with people that were pretentious, that were demanding, that just weren't, you know, people with money

sometimes aren't the nicest people and the people with money that need protection generally need protection for a reason. Right. So you compound that fact. So I did it for a very long time. I did it at the highest level. I was on presidential units. I ran operations in Iraq. I did all of it. Right. Celebrities from top to, you know, and, uh, you know, behavioral analysis and investigations and, uh and kidnap ransom. And I ran security for McDonald's at the Olympics and then the 96 Olympic Games. I took her to Atlanta. Hurricane Katrina. We respond to natural disasters.

And our biggest competitors were Kroll and Blackwater, right? So we were a little more corporate than them. So I had just kind of really wanted to get back into focusing on fighting. So I started to run this gym for someone else and started a fight team. We had a lot of success. And then I was coaching the U.S. Muay Thai team and having a lot of success. So I told the gym owner I was at, I was like, hey, I want to be more involved. Um, you know, I'd, I'd like a partial ownership in this gym. I built it. It's my gym, really. You know, and he was like, no, it's my gym. And I was like, well, you're right. It's your money. It is your gym. So I opened up my own gym and I found a partner. One of my members, one of my fighters, MJ, you know, became 50-50 partner.

You know, he provided the initial investment. I provided the subject matter expertise. And, you know, we've been partners ever since. Any talks on a CSA reality TV show? Cool. That would be amazing. That would be amazing. I mean,

I know you guys, that would be hilarious. It would. Well, I know you guys have had the reality show, the HBO show, Hard Knocks come in recently because John Gruden's son is a, just fought last weekend.

Oh, he did. Yeah. And he won. Wow. Awesome. Yeah. He'll be fighting in Elk Grove, November 16 Yep. He is a. Just fought last weekend. Oh, he did? Yeah. And he won. Wow. Awesome. Yeah. He'll be fighting in Elk Grove November 16th.

Oh, cool. Has he had a couple of fights? Yeah. Yeah. He's undefeated. He's had a couple of fights. Really talented kid. You know, Coach Gruden comes in all the time.

He's a great supporter. When I was at your gym last, he was training his ass off. Oh, that kid trains. He's always training. He trains hard. He trains with MJ. He's a good kid. He's like head down, train hard.

Yeah. He trains with MJ hours a day. Like literally this kid, he trains just as hard as my professional fighters. It's crazy. He's really quiet too. Well, you know, probably feels like he's got a point to prove, right? Sure, sure. Well, and again, you know, John's got a lot of kids. One's a DJ, right?

And then another one works with the Raiders, strength and conditioning. He used to live with Jesse. And then Jason likes fighting. So, you know, he's been great. And having Coach Gruden around is always cool too. You know, such a great guy. His wife's amazing. MJ's done a great job with Jason.

The one who's John Gruden's son that is a strength coach for the Raiders, he like won IPF World Championships. He's a fucking badass. Yeah, just the whole family's super talented. I mean, you can't be John Gruden be, you know, John Gruden's kid. You're not allowed to, you're not, no,

you're not allowed to not be awesome. You're not allowed to slack off. No, no, no, no, no, no,

no. And I think, I think he likes me just because I swear when I coach. I think is really the most impressive thing that he finds about me. I can get away with swearing in front of a group of people and not have people get upset. I guess. I think it's our gym culture. Yeah.

I, I, I say the word fuck a lot. CrossFit room's terrible. He probably loves the intensity of it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You going to get ready for anything once that shoulder heals up? Yeah, I mean, actually, I've got a few things.

I think I'd like to try a Wadapalooza, or I might try to qualify. I've aged up for the Masters for CrossFit, so I might do that. She's going to qualify for the Games again. She just hit the 45. I've got two hockey tournaments already coming up next year, so fun stuff. Booking out your calendar already. She's in high demand.

Everybody loves Jessica. I do. Did you ever step back in the ring? I've thought about it, to be honest, because I really like the fighting part. Yeah. But, you know, that ship's going to sail. My kids didn't even like me training, to be honest, because, listen, this guy is wonderful, but I do everything at home.

So when the kids have me training like that, mentally, physically, and emotionally, and then having to deal with dinner and homework and laundry and all of the day-to-day house stuff, it's a whole other mom. So Chase, after my first fight, was like, please, Mom, don't ever fight again. It's interesting because it's like, oh, you know, it's going to be like a 12-week thing. But it just takes a lot out of everybody, right? That 8 to 12 weeks is the worst. Yeah, right. Like that is the worst. Everything else is fine.

But when you buckle down like that with food and training and then on top of that, I'm a housewife through and through. I don't want to disappoint my family. I've got things to do. I take care of, you know, bills, laundry, cleaning. I don't have a cleaning lady. I can't afford a cleaning lady. I don't know if I'd want someone else cleaning my house, actually.

But, you know, it's I do all that and all the' stuff and running around to sports and dance and all of that on top of everything that I was doing. So, you know, but I like doing it. I don't know how moms do that. I feel like as a guy, like, we can have, like, maybe, like, a job. And maybe you might be able to give us one more thing for the day. And then that's it. Otherwise, we're going to collapse. Eh, Mars Venus.

Mars Venus. I'm old school. Mars Venus. That's cool. It doesn't bother me. Just the way it is. Yeah. She's amazing.

If you enjoy what you're doing, it's fine. I couldn't do what I do if she didn't do what she does. No way. So you're going to Russia. You're not going to be around for Slingshot Record Breakers. Bummed out, man. I was looking forward to you spending a lot of money. Well, I still might, right?

I hope. Yeah, I know. I wanted to see you hand the checks out because they hurt. I know. I'm excited for it, though. It's always cool to have the relationship I have with you guys. Always good to see you guys. And, you know, love the powerlifting stuff that you guys have going on up there.

And then dropping in and seeing what you guys have built over the years. And the gym continues to expand and get better all the time. I admire it. It's cool to be friends with you guys. Cool for us. We love you, man. Appreciate you guys making the trek out here today. Thanks for having us.

Thank you. And where can people find you guys? Website, CSA Gym. All of our social media is CSA Gym. If you want to see my wife's ass, at Jack to Jessica on Instagram. You're killing me. That's normal. That's normal.

That's normal. Yeah. There you go. We're going to go back to those Friday posts again or not? Maybe. Once your shoulder's better. Yeah. Once I start training We're going to go back to those Friday posts again or not? Maybe. Once your shoulder's better. Yeah. Once I start training again. I'm slacking off right now.

I've got a nice little break and then I'm going to whip myself back into shape. Yeah. This is out of shape. For me. Yeah. For you. She's got a six pack instead of an eight pack. Very disappointing.

She's out of shape. Where can people find you, Andrew? You guys can hit me up on Instagram at I am Andrew Z. And Seema. And Seema Eang on Instagram and YouTube. I'm at Mark Smelly Bell. Strength is never a weakness.

Weakness never strength. Catch y'all later.