Mark Bell's Power Project - EP. 322 Pt. 4 - Carnivore Diet for Kids? ft. Shawn Baker and Paul Saladino

Episode Date: February 5, 2020

The fourth and final installment of this series with Shawn Baker and Paul Saladino answers the question, should kids follow the carnivore diet? . Adults are thriving on the diet, what happens when a younger individual follows a meat based or carnivore diet? This is part four of a four part series, please go back and watch the previous installments for the full conversation. Subscribe to the Podcast on on Platforms! ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast Visit our sponsors: ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code "POWERPROJECT" at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $99 ➢Perfect Keto: http://perfectketo.com/powerproject Use Code "POWERPROJECT10” at checkout for $10 off $40 or more! ➢SHOP NOW: https://markbellslingshot.com/ Enter Discount code, "POWERPROJECT" at checkout and receive 15% off all Sling Shots Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject  ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/mbpowerproject   ➢ LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/powerproject/ ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject ➢TikTok: http://bit.ly/pptiktok ➢Power Project Alexa Skill: http://bit.ly/ppalexa FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/  Podcast Produced by Andrew Zaragoza ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamandrewz

What's up Power Project? Welcome to the fourth and final installment of this amazing four-part series with Dr. Sean Baker and Dr. Paul Saladino, two guys that are kind of running things in the carnivore community. In this series, we've heard a lot of stories and reports of adults having a lot of success on the carnivore diet. Today, we're going to address whether or not this diet is good for children. This episode of the podcast is brought to you by Certified Piedmontese, the absolute best beef on the planet. If you're going to go meat-based or full carnivore, is good for children. This episode of the podcast is brought to you by Certified Piedmontese, the absolute best beef on the planet. If you're going to go meat-based or full carnivore, the absolute best way to do it is with Certified Piedmontese beef. Higher protein, lower fat,

cooks faster, more tender, simply better than anything that's currently available. Head over to piedmontese.com, that's P-I-E-D-M-O-N-T-E-S-E.com at checkout. Enter promo code POWERPROJECT for 25% off your order. And if your order is $99 or more, you get free two-day shipping. Head over there, check out our Jacked in Tan Pack and the Power Project Deluxe Bundle that they offer. And we're not honeydicking you. Our promo code works on both of those packages. Thank you to everybody that's been watching the series. Again, this is part four of a four-part series, so if you missed out on episodes one through three, please go back and check those out because there's tons of great information. But for now, enjoy the show.

You know, when we're thinking about this, and you guys have probably got this question before, but adults are doing so well on the Carver diet, and they also have children. And when you bring in the subject of kids eating just meat, everyone's going to start getting emotional about it. So, how would you suggest a parent approach a situation? Should they have their kids approach and use a Carver diet in terms of their development?

Yeah, so it's interesting. This is a really important topic and a very important question. I mean, I think certainly we can look at historical populations. You know, these Inuit kids or these Sami kids or Maasai kids, they did fine. I mean, clearly they can do okay. And the deficiencies, when we see kids that are stunted and we see kids with nutrient deficiencies, vitamin deficiencies,

these are not kids in these meat-based societies. These are these, you know, starving kids in Africa and Southeast Asia or India where they're small. They have iron deficiency, anemia. It's the most common thing out there. But when we look at children, I mean, one thing we have to realize is they need to be breastfed for a period of time. And breast milk does contain carbohydrate. I mean, it has lactose in there. And so that's because we need a lot of energy to develop that baby brain.

So fat is important. Animal fat is full of saturated fats, full of cholesterol. Those things have to occur to make your baby have the best opportunity. You've got to give them animal fat. I think I believe that strongly now. Most women, modern Americans and so on, they don't breastfeed for two and a half years like an indigenous person would. So in that case, you've got to figure a way to get that energy. And you might have to do some carbohydrates with the kids early on.

And so that might be fruit or something like that if they tolerate it as they get older. And the question is, why are people on a carnivore diet? Most people go on a carnivore diet not because they only want to eat meat. I mean, I didn't do that, did I? I was already in a position where my health was compromised, and as are most people that do this, except for some guys that are experimenting younger and trying to get athletic benefit.

So I think with kids, you have to be a little bit more cautious. I think you can certainly, you know, I mean, what do kids in northern Alaska do when there's no fruit around? I mean, they're still surviving, but they're probably breastfed until two and a half years of age, maybe even three. So the really young, young kids, you know, that's, that's a concern. But as they get older, like with my kids, I've got four kids or what are they? Seven, nine, 11, 13. And

they load up on meat. I mean, they load up on meat and eggs and stuff like that. And it's very nice from a parenting standpoint, because when I fill them up, they're not asking for snacks every 15 minutes, like a normal kid, dad, where can dad where can i and then you know the normal response is here's a granola bar here's a juice box here's the fruit leather i don't got to do that stuff i get upset anymore and i make them eat a feast and i make them eat it all and then just because i'm a lazy parent i don't have to deal with it for the rest of the day because i know they're full but if they want a piece of fruit afterwards i'm fine and i kind of let them do that and then you know even if they want a little piece of you know a chocolate piece of chalk try, I'm fine. And I kind of let them do that. And, you know, even if they want a little piece of, you know, a chocolate piece of chocolate,

try to get dark chocolate. I try to, you know, do the stuff that's not pure junk. How do you make that convenient? Is there any way to make it convenient? You cook up a lot of food at one time? Yeah, I mean, quite honestly, you know, once the kids, like my daughters in particular, I mean, when I cook up like a ribeye, I mean, they go for the ribeye cap, the fat part. They go, Dad, I want this part.

And I feel like it kind of pissed me off because that's the part I want. You're like, no. Yeah, you've got to give it to them. But, I mean, I think kids adapt pretty quickly. I think here's the thing. Parents talk about, this really drives me crazy, they've got a toddler and he won't eat this or that. I mean, a four-year-old should not be making the nutritional decisions for the house. They only like mac and cheese.

You're like, that's why you fed them. That's because you give into that. If they're hungry, they will eat. If they miss a meal, they're not going to die. You say, learn how to cook. I mean, if you give them a dried out piece of burnt meat that you don't know how to cook, the kids are going to hate that. So you've got to know how to cook a little bit.

So, I mean, get a nice whatever it is. Maybe it's bacon. Maybe it's a ribeye. Maybe it's some liver pate or some Braunschweig or something like that. Little kids will like that stuff. And they'll do it and they'll eat that stuff up. I mean, they'll instinctively. I've got all kinds of pictures of babies now gnawing on rib bones and just going crazy.

So they'll do it as little kids. And then the older kids, I mean, it's just about being a parent and saying, look, I don't care if you like the crap. Don't bring it in the house. I mean, my niece, I went over to my sister and my niece, as much as I love her, was not a very good kid. And she was disrespectful, screaming and yelling. And I talked to my sister. I said, look, look at your cover. Look what you're feeding her. And we took, we literally- She doesn't have an opportunity to act appropriately. So we took a big giant trash bag and got all the food out and this girl was nine she was on the ground screaming and kicking and yelling because we were taking away her her you

know her basically her addictive food and throwing it in the trash can it was like watching a two year old have a tantrum but you know i went to the store and shopped with her and got her food it wasn't all carnival but it was know, meat and a little bit of food. Yeah, let them pick out some options they might like. Hey, do you like bacon? Okay, we can eat that. Right. But, I mean, you've got to, like I said, I think you've got to preference the animal foods up front.

That's the only thing I care what my kids eat. If they don't want vegetables and they rarely ever want vegetables, I don't make them eat it. You know, one of my daughters really likes fruit, so I'll give her some fruit. But that's how I do it. And I think that some people may or may not disagree with that. What evidence do we have based off of people that have done this diet for a long time? You've been doing it for about two years. You've been doing it about five years.

No, a little over three. A little over three years. Is there people who have been doing it for 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years? Well, I mean, in Western culture that we know of in America, yeah, there's a few people. There's a few dozen people that have done it, some up to 20 years, a lot of 10-year-plus people that are doing just fine. I mean, again, I would look at historical populations, like Inuit Sami. This is one of the things that a lot of people like criticizing Inuit

because they didn't live as long as the other Canadians. And what people don't fail to remember is the Inuit have some of the highest smoking rates in the world. They start smoking at age eight. Wow. And they smoke and then they die at 70 on average. Also probably have a stressful life. Oh, yeah.

They have a lot of suicide and violent deaths and alcoholism now, unfortunately. They've been exposed to the crappy American diet. But if we look at the Sami population, which is another northern tribe, which is in like northern Finland, or maybe Norway, and you compare them to the other Norwegians, they actually live four to five years longer. They're living like 81, 82, which is some of the higher populations in the world,

and they still live in a horrible environment with poor access to health care, and they're eating reindeer. So, I mean, you know, this is one of those things where we've got information. What about like more modern-day testimonials, though, if somebody's been doing it for 30, 40 years, something like that? Well, I mean, there was a guy called The Bear.

He was the LSD manufacturer from the 60s. He was like the Grateful Dead sound engineer. And he lived on it for like 53 years until he died in a car wreck at 76 or 77. I mean, that's there. But, you know, and there's people that, you know, that we find out have been doing it longer. And again, how do you verify this stuff? It's kind of hard to do.

You have to take their word at it. I know there's people that have verified, been talking about doing it for at least a decade. So we know that exists. And, you know, the point is, when do these nutritional deficiencies show up? I think if you make it 10 years it's pretty unlikely i mean even three years in my case it's pretty unlikely that i'm not it's

not like i'm withering away i mean you've seen me you've known me for a couple years now it's not like i'm shriveling away and dying i'm still performing at a high level and you know that type of stuff so anyway yeah i just want to go back to the thing about kids i think it's really interesting the points sean made about carbohydrates early on. I think one of the things that we know about kids is they will eat meat and they don't like vegetables. I don't think we should force that. I think kids know that vegetables are not the thing.

I think a reasonable diet for kids is about fruit and meat. I have no problem giving kids lots of carbohydrates. You don't see many kids getting childhood obesity or diabetes on fruit and meat. That's not a problem. I'd love to see kids get organ meats. I'd love to see kids get enough fat. I've got a niece who's two, and I always encourage my sister to feed her good meat

and try and get her some liver and try and get her some organ meats. She loves eggs. She's smart. She's super smart. She's growing up real well. I will tell a story that I think is really interesting. I have some really good friends, and they had a, I believe he was a nine-year-old son, and they said he was acting weird, and he was kind of having what seemed like OCD symptoms,

kind of perseveration, anxiety, just having weird kind of gestures and kind of stereotyped movements. And I said, how's he eating? These folks are really health conscious. And they said, oh, he's totally primal. Okay. And then I said, wait a he eating? These folks are really health conscious. And they said, oh, he's totally primal. Okay. And then I said, wait a minute, what does that mean? They said, oh, well, he eats mostly meat, and we give him cacao and honey. And I was like, wait, wait, wait, full carnivore, full carnivore.

He was better within like two or three weeks. Like I would say he's probably better within a week, but he was having what appeared to be some kind of like OCD, obsessive symptoms, full carnivore, better in a week. And so they cut out cacao. They cut out a few other things. And then they were able to reintroduce, but it might have been high-dose cacao,

which is a derivative of chocolate. It's from a plant seed. It certainly has toxins in it. And so, I mean, he did great. And now those kids are thriving. Specifically, that family does, the kids do carnivore, I think, four days a week or five days a week,

and they get two days of carbs a week. And, you know, it works great for them. They're growing healthfully, and they always like their carbs. You can tell kids are like, can I have a piece of fruit today? You know, they like the fruit. So I don't think we should limit necessarily carbohydrates for kids. Think about the good sources of carbohydrates. But here's a case of a kid who was having some pretty severe psychological symptoms

that were really stressing the family out, better with a complete carnivore diet immediately. Now, I know this is going to be pretty specific, but kids that are teething, like really, really young kids, do you guys have suggestions for what parents can give them? Yeah, give them a bone to chew on. Really? Give them a rib bone.

Big enough so they're not going to choke on it. Let them gnaw on that. They love it. You can also do, I mean, one of the things my sister's done specifically is you can just puree up hamburger. So you can cook hamburger, puree it, mix it with eggs, mix it with anything.

That sounds pretty damn good. You can make liquid hamburger with eggs and then cook it in a pan. I mean, most of these kids can eat cooked eggs, things like that. You can get the kid's meat. I think evolutionarily moms would have chewed it. This is like, what was it? Was it Gwyneth Paltrow or whoever?

Yeah, pre-mastication, yeah. You know, I think you could pre-chew the meat for the kid if you want. But, you know, when the kids are super young, they can't chew the meat. So you got to give them, I would say, either pre-masticated meat or just grind it up in a blender and mix it with eggs or mix it. It's like a meat kind of pudding or something. I love it, meat pudding. Meat pudding.

What is this diet specifically? What do you guys eat? Just to give these people that are listening a little list here. Well, I mean, again, the way I define the diet and what I do, I mean, I like to define it as an animal-based diet, nutrition based on animal foods with either complete elimination or limitation of plant foods as needed with the end goal being health. And I think health is the end goal here. What I personally eat, I eat a lot of red meat.

I mean, probably 95% of my diet is red meat. Sometimes I go strict red meat. I sometimes will include eggs and seafood, a little bit of dairy from time to time. I find generally I do better without dairy. I don't eat a lot of organ meats. Unlike Paul, I know Paul really likes them. I've had them a few times. I honestly just don't find them very palatable. I mean, I think if you get them, I like foie gras. When I was in France, I enjoyed that. I've had some Braunschweiger and liverwurst, which I think is pretty decent as well. But I'm not going to be eating raw liver or anything like that.

Paul and I can disagree about the necessity of that. So that's how I do it. It works for me. If I need to change something, I won't hesitate to do that. I think that's the most important part about the diet is being willing to change if you need to. No vegetables, obviously. No fruit, right? No fruit, no vegetables.

I mean, you know, I had a piece of birthday cake on my son's birthday and then on my daughter's birthday, not because I, I mean, it tasted good. Let me be honest about that. One I got sick after, the other one I didn't. So, you know, and, you know, sometimes, well, not even sometimes, I've had like one or two pieces of fruit, you girlfriend was like, here, try this piece of orange. Okay, I'll try it. But I eat such small amounts of anything else, it's not going to make a difference.

Any yogurt or milk or cottage cheese? One, I don't like to drink calories, for one, just because my goal is, if I was wanting to put on weight, you guys know the gold man, the gallon of milk, and JC High has 20 rep squats. And you may not know about that, Paul, but us meatheads probably remember that stuff. You know, you 20 reps a day and you suck down a gallon of milk a day.

That sounds pretty brutal. There's actually a tribe in Ethiopia that has a contest every year where they try to get the biggest, fattest gut. And the guy who does that, like wins all the girls or something like that. And they do that by just gorging on milk. Because you can get fat drinking milk.

That's a hell of a contest. Well, exactly. Look it up. I'm not kidding about this. I think it's in Ethiopia. But I will sometimes have some yogurt. I think fermentable dairy is probably better. I mean, some people will say if you're going to have dairy,

it might need to be A2 dairy. Some, you know, I have concerns about raw dairy. I know there's people that swear by it. I mean, I think there is a concern for risk for infection. Same thing with raw meat, to be honest. You've got to be careful of the sourcing of that because there are people that get sick on that. So if you're going to do it, and I'm not opposed to doing it,

you just have to be very meticulous about the sourcing of that stuff. So that's me. So I think about a carnivore diet similarly. What I kind of emphasize in the book is a focus on animal foods for nutrition and some awareness, if we're going to eat plant foods, of a spectrum of plant toxicity.

Which plant foods are more toxic and which plant foods are less toxic? I eat a full carnivore diet, so I completely exclude plant foods, but I realize that some people may want to include them for entertainment, color, variety, things like this. And I think that if we are eating a carnivore diet or if we're eating a diet that emphasizes animal foods for nutrients

and thinks about a spectrum of plant toxicity, I would call that carnivore-ish. And I think that's pretty good. If we don't have autoimmune disease or other issues that are unresolved, we might be able to include some of those. But thinking about which are more and less toxic. Personally, I like to eat nose-to-tail carnivore. I kind of imagine, or from what I've learned about anthropology, this is the way their

ancestors would have eaten animals, kind of nose-to-tail. Or in your case, penis-to-mouth, maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think ass-to-mouth. Wait, that sounds a little weird. You know, the last podcast we did, Andrew Atterwood came up and said, can we call it ass to mouth? Sounds like there's a movie about that.

So, you know, like we get the deer and it's the same thing. We're going to eat the muscle meat. I'm going to eat the back strap. I'm going to eat the kidney fat. I'm going to eat the kidneys. I'm going to eat the liver. I'm going to eat the heart.

I'm going to eat the spleen. I'm going to eat the testicle maybe occasionally. And I'm going to eat the bone marrow. And I also have been eat the bone marrow. And I also have been really interested recently in eating bones for calcium, specifically bones that I'm making out of bone broth. They become quite brittle, especially the trabecular bone at the ends is quite brittle. You know, if you ever eat chicken wings or something or you roast a duck wing,

you can eat the end of the bone. And I think that's something our ancestors would have done was eat the parts of the bone that they could eat. I've been really interested in sort of systemic pH. And though people have concerns that high-protein diets will raise systemic pH, it doesn't seem to change in the serum. But what we can see is changes in the urine pH. And what it appears is that

that is not necessarily driven by animal foods per se or a need for plant foods to balance that sort of urinary pH, but just a balance of minerals, specifically alkalizing minerals, which include calcium, magnesium, and potassium. And from that perspective, I've thought, well, it kind of makes sense evolutionarily

to get a calcium source on my carnivore diet, keep track of the urinary pH, and I've done that with sort of bone broth and things like that. So the majority of my diet is a mix of meat and fat. I try and source all my meat from the regenerative farms. I use a lot of salt, and then I'll eat organs at every meal. Well, like I said, I try to do the organs raw. It's just the most palatable way for me, and it's what I've got. I'll usually do some liver, some kidney, some heart, some spleen, things like that, brain if I've got it. That's generally what

I do. I'll mix in some other meats occasionally. I had duck the other day. It was pretty good. I'll do seafood, but rarely. Got to be careful of metal contamination. And geez, if you look at, I mean, we just, we polluted the ocean so much. So that's generally what I'm doing is mostly animal foods, mostly regenerative ruminants, nose to tail. Yeah, I think that's an important point. And people that do this long-term, whether they decide to go nose to tail. Yeah, I think that's an important point. And people that do this long-term, you know, whether they decide to go nose to tail or not, they do tend to gravitate to ruminant animals. And I think that's consistent with, you think about it,

if we were all, they threw us back 50,000 years ago and gave us spears and they were slow-moving big animals and birds, which ones are you going to hunt? I mean, which ones will make the most sense? Which one's going to give me the most cow right? You remember the old Rocky scene where he's chasing the chicken around those things don't those things are going to tough to kill with a spear but a big slow-moving elephant i don't know if you remember to africa but i was in the in the serengeti and the gorgor crater and we had this big group of elephants walking by and we we stopped and they like 40

of them in unison just turned and looked at us and said, what are you looking at? What are you going to do? Because they're not really scared of humans because we're so puny. What they don't know is we have spears, and we run up and stab them in the side, and it's game over. We know that humans could easily kill elephants. I think we gravitated to these big grazing herbivores. Fish, which we certainly clearly ate at some point, was secondary. I've not seen anybody successfully do this diet on, like, a pure fish diet or a pure chicken diet.

I just haven't seen it happen yet. Maybe you've seen somebody. I've never seen anybody do that yet. I've never seen anybody do it. I would have concerns, and I've dissuaded people from doing a predominantly seafood-based carnivore diet just because of the bioaccumulation of metals. Unfortunately, shellfish is just pretty high in cadmium these days. accumulation of metals. Unfortunately, shellfish is just pretty high in cadmium these days.

And most fish is going to have some organic mercury in it with smaller fish like salmon, maybe sardines being lower, but I mean, everything bigger is going to have quite a bit of mercury. And I've seen it in my clients that if they eat even wild Alaskan salmon multiple times a week, I'll see their serum mercury bump a little bit. I'm thinking, I don't know if that's a good thing, their serum mercury bump a little bit. I'm thinking, I don't know if that's a good thing. So it's like, and I think we get plenty of omega-3 from animal fat or egg yolks, things like that. I don't think we need, I'm not a fan of hyperdosing omega-3.

I don't buy into that. Yeah, we might not need it from a dietary standpoint, but your body's gonna get some of it from the meat and stuff like that and eggs. Yeah, you need, I mean, there's's omega-6 is actually probably not that essential. There's kind of a, an idiosyncrasy there around linoleic acid and arachidonic acid. We probably need some EPA or DHA in our diet, but I don't think we need as much as people are pushing. I'm not a fan of five gram, 20 gram, 10 grams omega-3 per day. I don't think we should be supplementing with tons

of fish oil that's highly oxidized and processed and, you know, 10 grams omega-3 per day. I don't think we should be supplementing with tons of fish oil that's highly oxidized and processed and distilled and things like this. I don't think we need any of that. I think we just, you know, you can get, there is EPA and DPA and DHA and animal fat, and I think that'll be enough for humans, especially if we're eating egg yolks or other richer sources. I don't think we need to go crazy with the seafood for that. Yeah, and I think one of the issues around the belief that we have to have this all this omega-3 in the diet is again it's an epidemiologically based belief

that we see people like japanese that eat a lot of seafood and they live a long time and they just make that connection well aha that's why they live a long time well it could very well be they live a long time because they're not obese and they don't overeat and there's a lot of other factors why they don't have cardiovascular disease and we've just kind of taken the you sort of the, you know, didn't think about it all the way through. And so now everybody thinks we've got to eat all this fish and seafood and there may not be anything there. So I think that's an important thing to talk about. They kind of made that same mistake with the Inuits. Like this is the paradox. Like how can they not get heart disease and all this whale blubber? And now we realize, hey, that probably seal fat doesn't give people heart disease, you know?

Like whale blubber probably doesn't give people any heart disease. So there's no paradox there in the first place, you know? This is kind of a silly thing. You guys both have books out. What's your book? Well, my book is The Carnivore Diet. And so it came out in November and it's been on Amazon doing well. And I mentioned Paul at the back of the book.

I know Paul's got a lot of talk about it. Are you throwing any cheap shots at all? Are you a hasty one? Well, no, I didn't. No, Paul, I think Paul's done a great job. I had a chapter saying something about, I can't remember what it was called. It was called veganism, why it's not all it's cracked out to be. So there's a little bit of cheap shouting in there.

As you guys probably remember, Joel Fuhrman on the show saying I should be thrown in jail. Yeah. Has anybody come to arrest you yet? I have not been arrested yet. That's amazing. I agree with Joel Furman. I want Joel Furman to, yeah, there's my book. I want Joel Furman to make a citizen's arrest and pull me in himself and see what happens. How about you, Paul? so I just got the proof of my book it's coming out next month mid-month

it's called The Carnivore Code pain in the ass right putting together a book such a pain in the ass man but it feels good to have that copy

in your hand it does feel good to have the copy in my hand you guys can see that is that a lion it's a tiger yeah

with the eyes it'll be available on Amazon mid-February probably on or about February the 11th. And I tried to, I don't know, I just realized that Contraband Diet is really controversial. And I just wanted to put as much in there as I could. So it's got a lot of references, pretty technical.

This guy's triggering people all the time. I know. Everybody's getting triggered. So I think that between the two books, we're going to have a lot for people to attack and we'll welcome the rebuttals and the debates. And I think we've got a lot of resources coming out for people. And I think that there's going to be

so much good literature in the space now between Sean's book and my book, I hope that people will have to kind of answer to it and say, like, what's wrong with my book? Show me why you think my book isn't good. Show me, you know, what's wrong with this, and we'll have conversations. Yeah, I'll get you in a rear naked choke. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

What's going on with meetrx.com? What do we got going on with that? Yeah, so this is another thing that, you know, I'm just trying to do. Like I said, I'm trying to make this, you know, this solution to, I mean, well, I think the overall picture is we have now, the health care industry is clearly sick. We have what's called what I consider the disease management industry. We have people that go in, they get a Band-Aid put on,

and then they come in the next time the Band-Aid needs to be changed out. And that is a model, and it's not the physician's fault. I mean, this is a system. The system has become a business model. I mean, this is a system. The system has become a business model. The number of administrators in health care has gone up 700%, 800%. Doctors have flatlined. And so it's all about this business turning over as many patients as possible.

It's not doing a good service to most of our patients. There's things that the health care industry does well. If I break my femur in a car wreck, don't put ribeyes put ribeyes on it, right? You know, bring me to the hospital so I can get taken care of. But I think there has to be an alternative. And I think what I'm trying to do is in a very affordable way, make this an option lifestyle through coaching, through support. One of the things we do know about any endeavor, it's a lot easier when you have a support system and there's not a lot of people supporting you in a carnivore diet right now. You're kind of the weirdo.

You're the freak. Oh, my God, you're going to die. You're killing the planet. And so we're developing a support system where we've got coaches that are trained. You know, they know what they're all on the same page. We've got them on the same platform so we can monitor what they're doing. Hopefully we can collect data. And so we can say this is our success rate with psoriasis, diabetes.

And then we can put it up against the standard of care down the road and say, look, UPS, look Dell computers. Our success rate is this and the health care system is this. And if we get what I think we're going to get, I think we have a potential to make a huge impact. And there's going to be other things that are going to come out similar to this because we know that where it's at is lifestyle, I think, for many people. And I think the market's going to dictate that. We are very competitively priced. I mean, a coaching session is $18 for half an hour, which is ridiculously cheap.

I mean, it's, what is that, a couple cups of coffee? It's not even a decent grass-fed steak. So we're trying to make it as accessible to as many people as possible. Like I said, I don't care about the bodybuilder who's already 99% of the way there, the rich dude who's going to live to 90 anyway because he's rich. I want to take care of as many of these people that are kind of struggling

as possible and make it as accessible as affordable as possible. And that's what MeterX is about. I've got a very, very nice, capable CTO, Chief Technical Officer out of Silicon Valley. I've got a very, very nice, capable CTO, chief technical officer out of Silicon Valley. He's just a tremendous AI data engineer. He's making a lot of this happen behind the scenes. And I'm just out there every day just beating the drum.

You're doing a good job, but your YouTube is really taking off. Well, I mean, that's coming along, and I'm doing anything I can. And a lot of people criticize me because I sometimes make fun of you. I do it quite a bit, quite honestly. I mean, it's just I think we have to fight on every single plane that we can. I mean, it's a

propaganda war. It's a gunfight. If you bring a knife to a gunfight, I mean, I appreciate the science, but quite honestly, it's boring to most people. I mean, you put up a study and I put up a study on my thing and I think it's interesting and I get six people looking at it. I put up a study, and I put up a study on my thing, and I think it's interesting, and I get six people looking at it. I put up a silly comic video about veganism, and I get 10,000 people looking at it.

So you've got to play the game like it's played. And right now, it's social media, as you well know, and you've got to... Sometimes it gets tiring, as you know. Absolutely. But that's how this battle is going to be fought. Whether it's won or not is going to depend on who does it. Like I said, I'd rather go down standing up than on my knees,

whether we win or lose. So that's the way I've taken it. That's been my approach. And, Paul, you've got a podcast going as well. What other ways are you trying to get the message out there other than just the book? So I've got a podcast called Fundamental Health. People can go to my website, which is carnivoremd.com.

We've got a blog there. And I think those are the main avenues for now. I mean, I got a YouTube channel. We're trying to repurpose. So one of the things that's been super fun on the podcast is to have a lot of really great people on. I get kind of geeky on the podcast and go down some rabbit holes.

And I think that people are consuming content via video. So we're trying to repurpose a lot of the snippets from those podcasts and make them more accessible for people that can't or don't have time to get through two hours. I mean, sometimes they get really loquacious and we get quite technical and it'll go over two hours. So we're trying to pull up some of those high points now. So on my YouTube channel and on Instagram, people are going to start seeing a lot more highlights coming out of just like the many podcasts that I've been done. I've been fortunate to have some really cool people on and some debates and I got

some fun stuff coming up. Awesome. Thank you guys so much. Where can people find you? What's your handles on Instagram and wherever else you want to plug? Yeah, so Instagram, it's Sean, S-H-A-W-N, Baker, B-A-K-E-R, 1-9-6-7 for the year I was born. Twitter, I've still got,

I think we had like 50-some thousand on Twitter, so it's SBakerMD, and I think it's S and the B are capitalized and the MD is capitalized. YouTube channel. I try to put up a YouTube video every day. I just do like five, ten minutes a day. Just kind of put a little content. That seems to work for me.

I love it. I love that you're sharing testimonials from people and all the different content. I've kind of come up with this little, you know, a little of this, a little of that. That's a little bit like a show. Yeah, it's like a little news thing. Yeah. It's like a little five-minute news show. Like, this is a testimony.

Because it is funny. Some people hate it. Some people love it. Some people like, you know, so I just try to do it all. And that's been going on. And then Facebook, the World Carnivore Tribe is, we've got about 40 to 3,000 members now. And then, of course, MeetRx is where I do. The one thing I really like about MeetRx

is we've got this video platform. It's all through Zoom. And we have every day at 9 a.m. I have a meeting and I have 40, 50 people show up and we're all on video and I just answer questions and we have nice dialogue. And there's a doctor in there, Lisa Wiedemann, who's been doing carnival for 11 years and she shows up all the time.

And so we have all this perspective and this back and forth and now we've got all these support groups we've got a women's group a gut health group a heart health group a senior 65 plus group autoimmune group you know mental health groups all these support groups which i think is you know again i think it's really support is really crucial and i think that that makes a big difference. Paul? What was the question again? Just plug in where people can find you.

Oh, yeah. So CarnivoreMD is all the social handles, and then I've got a YouTube channel, which is PaulSaladinoMD. Like I said, we're going to be putting the highlights up there, and you can find all my podcasts there. CarnivoreMD.com is the website. CarnivoreMD is the handle everywhere. Awesome. Thank you guys so much for coming out. Andrew, where can people find you? I have Andrew's.

We stole his microphone. There we go. Now that I got a microphone, I can say something. What's your stance on charred meat now? I remember last time around, you were like, you guys got to do the sous vide. Don't overcook it.

I'm not as worried about it anymore. I think you've got to be a little bit careful about that. But here's the interesting thing. So I had a guy on my podcast, James Clement. He wrote a book called The Switch. And he brought up something really interesting. And he's plant-based, so we disagreed about a lot of stuff. But his book was about mTOR and longevity.

And we sort of had a friendly debate. And he even agreed that eating a carnivore diet wouldn't shorten your lifespan. I was like, yeah, no shit. But the longest-lived person that he met was 122 and she'd smoked cigarettes for 90 years. And so he was even suggesting that perhaps the hypoxia from cigarettes might be a little bit of a hormetic. What we know is that polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons,

heterocyclic amines from the cooking of meat, activate NRF2 in the liver. They are these sort of xenohormetics, right? Now, I've talked about these with plant compounds in the past. We don't have to go down that rabbit hole right now. But, you know, cigarette smoke does the same thing. And I've got this kind of, after talking to him, this is a pretty controversial opinion,

so I'll just lay it out here and people can fillet me if they want. You know, Native Americans smoke a lot of tobacco, but it's natural tobacco, right? Isn't it possible that all these compounds are just a little bit of hormesis, right? And again, the problem I have with plant hormetics and many of these compounds is they're going to circulate in the body and do damage elsewhere other than the NRF2 system. But if we're just talking about NRF2 and we're talking about antioxidant response, I think that a little bit of smoke, whether it's from a wood fire, a cigarette that doesn't have 450 chemicals in it, right? A little bit of tobacco that's been used ancestrally for thousands of years or polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons,

heterocyclic amines is probably okay for us. We've developed P450 systems in the liver to deal with this. I think we can overwhelm it. You don't want to over-brown your meat or overcook your meat, but a little bit from time to time is probably just going to poke that system a little bit and probably isn't that big a deal. Yeah, that's my opinion on it. Yeah, I would say that, first of all, red meat does not cause cancer. I mean, I don't think there's any evidence that really supports that. Definitely not. I think the argument that Gordon got and the Nutrix guys, I think, is solid. So if you accept that red meat doesn't cause cancer, then any mechanism, whether it's polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons or heterocyclic amines or TMAO or saturated fat or heme iron, all of that is out the window.

Because you've got a mechanism. We can show the same mechanism that broccoli would cause cancer or celery or cabbage. I mean, there's mechanisms there. So if you accept that red meat doesn't cause cancer, then I don't care how you do it. Now, if you're going to burn it so much it doesn't taste good, that's probably not a good idea. So, I mean, I sear my meat. I enjoy it. It tastes better.

Humans have been cooking meat minimum since we've been homo sapiens 400,000 years and possibly as far back as 1.8 or 2 million years there's an interesting hypothesis that homo erectus couldn't have left africa during the ice age into europe without control of fire because they would have been too damn cold so we may have been cooking meat for a long long time surely we have adaptations to that and we only cooked meat one way back then it was over a fire and when cook meat over a fire, you're going to get some char on there, you know? Yeah. So I don't really worry too much about it, quite honestly. Yeah. As with most people, they're going to hear something they don't like. So then it'll just go

to the next person that does say the thing that they like. And we had Dr. Ken Berry on our podcast and he said the same thing. You know, we've been cooking over fire for since forever. So a little bit of charred meat's not going to kill you. He actually, he said the same thing you know we've been cooking uh over fire for since forever so a little bit of charred meat's not going to kill you he actually he said they actually same thing it will not do anything to you so like hmm i wonder what paul's doing these days but yeah yeah yeah i think that it's you know something to be aware of but i wouldn't over char it you know i wouldn't burn it to a crisp but i think that a little bit every once in a while we've got system to deal with that yeah cool okay well i'm gonna shut up up. At IamAndrewZ on Instagram. Make sure you're following

at MarkBell'sPowerProject on Instagram, at MBPowerProject on TikTok, Twitter, Byte, Facebook.com slash MarkBell'sPowerProject, LinkedIn.com slash IN slash PowerProject. Yeah, we're Twitch, Mixer. Where else? We got at MBPowerPro project on periscope too and sema yeah where you at at and sema in yang on instagram youtube and

bite byte and and see my yin yang on tiktok and twitter there you go at mark smelly bell strength is never a weakness weakness never strength catch y'all later nice y'all later. Nice. What's up, Power Project Army? I just want to sneak in at the very end to thank everybody that's been rating and reviewing the podcast. We sincerely cannot thank you enough. It is the absolute best way you guys can give us a thank you if you have gotten any value in any of the episodes that we've done. This is the best way to do it. Like our boy, MisfitNate96. He says, the buffet of fitness knowledge buffet quote if you're

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