Mark Bell's Power Project - Ep. 412 Live with Officer Mike Frank

Episode Date: July 24, 2020

Mike Frank is a retired sheriff of Sonoma County who was shot in the line of duty. After surviving he found a new perspective on life and what it meant to be a law enforcement officer. He was a former tactical trainer in his sheriff's department, and currently is a personal trainer and bodybuilder. Find more info on the Bicep Board on IG: https://www.instagram.com/bicepboard/ Online: http://www.bicepboard.com/ Subscribe to the Podcast on on Platforms! ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast Support the show by visiting our sponsors! ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code "POWERPROJECT" at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $99 ➢Icon Meals: http://iconmeals.com/ Use Code "POWERPROJECT" for 10% off ➢Sling Shot: https://markbellslingshot.com/ Enter Discount code, "POWERPROJECT" at checkout and receive 15% off all Sling Shots Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ https://www.facebook.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/mbpowerproject ➢ LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/powerproject/ ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject ➢TikTok: http://bit.ly/pptiktok FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell ➢Mark Bell's Daily Workouts, Nutrition and More: https://www.markbell.com/ Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/ Podcast Produced by Andrew Zaragoza ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamandrewz #PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell

Hey everybody, welcome to Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast, hosted by Mark Bell, co-hosted by Nsema Iyang, and myself, Andrew Zaragoza. This episode is recorded on July 23rd, and it is with our new friend, Mike Frank. Mark met Mike at Saiyan Strength down in Santa Rosa. Mark goes on his trips down in Bodega Bay. His home gym during that time is out at Saiyan Strength. And he just happened to spot Mike training and in very much Mark Bell fashion, he befriended him. Next thing you know, he knows his whole story and he's on our podcast. And what an amazing story, which I will not spoil right now

during this intro, because you guys need to hear it from Mike himself. The way he explains everything in detail is huge. And I mean, just the way this man speaks, it's amazing. Like, you know, we've gotten perspective from active police officers on the podcast recently. Today, we get perspective from a retired police officer. And although some of his views and opinions do go in line with what we've heard recently on the podcast, Mike is able to kind of just bring a different dimension to the whole conversation. And, you know, you can just tell the way this man speaks, he comes straight from the heart. I really think you guys

are going to love this episode. Again, it's more perspective and yeah, he just adds a whole nother layer. He's on H and L and also he has an invention that we talked about briefly on the podcast. Please check the podcast show notes for links and just more information about what he talks about on the podcast. But that's it for me. So without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, please enjoy this episode with our friend, Officer Mike Frank. How'd you like that bar? I loved it. That was awesome.

That bar is pretty cool, right? It felt good on my shoulder. It felt good on the shoulder. We'll take the Cadillac bar, right? Oh, I thought you were talking about faces again oh yeah yeah that place that place was tight oh no there's nothing wrong with faces i'm gonna have to swing by there later swing it swing it by but yeah we're good to go all right yeah so uh just got done with a little training session

hit up some uh a little bit of bench pressing training with my boy mike over here did some uh cadillac bar benching but anyway uh i ran into mike um going to uh sane strength freaking awesome gym like that's that's the craziest gym one of the best i love that place i've ever been to i've never seen anything quite like that and they for some reason keep it under wraps i'm not sure why but you walk in there and you're just like oh my god they have every amazing piece of equipment that you could possibly imagine i mean how many barbells do they even have there's they've got a whole row it's pretty incredible you get that charlie and the chocolate factory effect as soon as you walk in it's you out from the outside you can't

believe it doesn't look like much and you walk inside and all of a sudden boom 30 foot ceilings and machines as far as you can see and probably close to 50 different barbells that's insane mike is the is the guy that you see at the gym the older guy that you see at the gym, the older guy that you see at the gym that mentors everybody, that takes like a half an hour, 45 minutes in between all of his sets. And that's how I got talking to him. I saw him at the gym, and he was training and stuff like that. And we just got chatting, and you followed. You've seen Bigger, Stronger, Faster. Awesome.

And so we got in some conversation about that. And then you told me you're a police officer, Stronger, Faster. Awesome. And so we got some conversation about that. And then you told me you're a police officer and you shared some really cool stories about that. And so I thought, hey, it would be great to have somebody on that's a family man, a former police officer. You have some cool stories kind of tied into all that. And somebody that's just out there training every day, trying to stay in shape and trying to stay jacked, trying to stay tan just like the rest of us. Absolutely. I mean, it was an incredible experience. I mean, Bigger, Stronger, Faster definitely resonated. It hit really hard. I loved that movie. And then to see you walk into Sand Strength one day and walk right by and you smiled and I'm like, that's Mark Bell from Bigger, Stronger, Faster. It was pretty cool. And then

you made the time to say hello and, um, you know, you were humble and you went on and you, I was watching you lift and I'm like, dang, the guy is strong. And so afterwards, and then I, um, you did a seminar there and, um, you, I mean, everything you said resonated. I mean, there was your family man and where your, you know, your background and background, and it was interesting. And I had a lot of fun being there and asking you a couple questions. And then I saw you a couple times more, and you're in there. And I figured, you know, I'm going to go up and strike up a conversation with you.

You have six children, I think you said? Six kids. Wow. Man, dude, how do we avoid that? I wish I could figure that out. That sounds like a lot, man. What's the age range on that so my youngest is 11 so i've got 11 17 18 21 23 and 25 damn so yeah there was a span there was like you deserve like an award for that my wife hey my wife does yeah yeah yeah then uh how long were you police officer for? 20 years.

20 years with the Sonoma County Sheriff's Department. It was a pretty interesting journey. I mean, definitely, you know, my goal was to do 30 years. And that was always something that, you know, when you're, everything you do, you start off with a job. I think everyone starts it with, you know, hey, I want to change. I want to help people. And it was a know hey i want to change i want to help you help people and it was a great profession i was an athlete prior to that i went to um the centers of junior college played a little bit of football realized hey you know what you have you have some

talent but you're not no division one talent so you better start looking for something and law enforcement i had a good background um Saw there was a testing process coming up. Like, I'm going to go for that and give it a shot. So it was interesting. Yeah. How did you start? Like, what was the kind of thought process that got you into it? You know, what really started for me was, again, I love sports.

I had aspirations. When you're younger, you're thinking, man, I'm going to play in the NFL or I'm going to play in, you know, the major league baseball. Yeah, we all are, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so then when you realize it's like, you know, there are some incredible athletes out there and you're just not at that level and it's a realization. And then at that point, I'm like, okay, well, career wise, what do you want to do? Wrench on cars? Do you want to do something honorable? And for me was, I saw law enforcement as a profession. I'm like, you know what? You can help people. And to be honest with you, as a younger person, everybody's experienced, I think, when you're younger and you're small, bullying.

And for me, it was like, okay, now you know what? I'm a little bit bigger guy now. I'm 6'4", 230 pounds, and I could represent the little guy. And it was nice. It was like, I can go out there and make a change, come across people, help people, people who are less fortunate, who need somebody to, you know, look out for them. And so I went ahead and applied for it, went to the police academy. It was actually, it was a great experience. It seemed like a really reasonable guy. And that's one of the reasons why I wanted to talk to you on the show and get in this conversation with you because I think in today's age of what's been going on over the years, really, and what's been highlighted more recently, it just seems chaotic. It seems like a lot of people are against the police.

A lot of people are anti-police. A lot of people are in favor of defunding the police and things like that. And I don't I don't know how you were, you know, in your career. I wasn't there. But I just from talking to you, I'm assuming that you were the kind of person that would want to communicate as much as possible until that was no longer an option. Absolutely. And this opportunity that you're giving me right here, I can give people from the law enforcement perspective. I'd say 99% of the guys that I worked with all have a great heart, family men, want to go out there and make a difference, a positive difference.

I mean, you see a lot of us, we actually, in our spare time, we coach kids in basketball, coach kids in football, the police athletic leagues that we're involved in with football for youth leagues. I mean, we spend what little time we have after work helping the youth. A lot of that doesn't get put out there, you know, right now. And I want to say not for good reason, but unfortunately there are some knuckleheads wearing that badge that shouldn't be wearing that badge. And I think if more law enforcement took an attitude, like let's look at

everybody's perspective, you know what, it's not us against them. You see, there's a, you see logos, the blue line logo. I'm not a big fan of drawing a line in there there shouldn't be that line should be erased should be no not against the blue line thing but why is there a line in the sand so to speak you know why can't we as a community get together have sit downs and figure out how can we do our job better you know what i mean to to not have that have the negative feelings that we're experiencing right now and it it's unfortunate. There are a few knuckleheads that are out there that are ruining it for the majority. You know, I'm curious because you mentioned that. I don't know if you you you meant it that way. But you said that when you started the job, you started to help people.

Did that at all like did the feeling of what you were doing change throughout your career? Did that at all, like, did the feeling of what you were doing change throughout your career? Or was that, like, the main sentiment that you had throughout? You felt that way the whole time you were working for 20 years? That's a great question. And I'll be honest with you. Probably halfway, let's say maybe halfway through, you're handling, let's say on a daily basis, 10 to 15 calls of service. So you're getting dispatched to certain calls. And after a while, it starts to wear on you. And if you don't have an avenue to get rid of that

stress, it starts to build up and it can spill over into your family life. It can spill over into your work life. And I think for me, finding the gym was a great outlet, you know, to get rid of that stress so I could maintain that mindset like what you were saying. It's like, hey, don't forget why you're wearing that badge, you know, protect and serve. I mean, that means a lot. It meant a lot to me. And can you get callous? Can you get, you know, I don't want to say complacent, but can you get to the point to where, how can I put it? You lose your focus.

You lose your way. And then when you become disgruntled and you're like, man, this isn't what I thought it was going to be. This isn't after 10 years in. This is a lot different than that bright-eyed academy. I'm going to help everybody, yeah. Right. So things changed. And it did

change for me but i'd have to say having kids and having kids and coaching with kids and i'm talking to my wife and working out and meeting people um you can kind of reset you have to reset yourself you have to actually go back and say you know what why did you take this job and if you don't like this job you better get out but a lot of people feel trapped and a lot of officers feel trapped. Having kids is a huge change, you know, I think, because you'll hear about, you know, your kid goes to school and then so-and-so is a problem in the classroom. And your kid kind of reports to you, like, you know, say, yeah, how was school? Like when they're young, when they're older, they don't talk to you much. But when they're young, they tell you like, oh, you know, this guy, you know, is doing this to other kids on the playground or whatever.

And that's when you sometimes have to explain to them. And you have to, not that you're trying to make an excuse for that particular child and you don't know what they're going through. But just say, you know, a lot of times I had to tell my kids, that kid's home, there's something's probably wrong at home. And that's why that kid is you know throwing the football as hard as he can at other kids head or whatever whatever the thing is you know whatever this this thing is so i think it gives you perspective into ah like everyone's home life is not that you don't know that already but it gives you a little bit more perspective into everyone's home life is just way different and even when your home life is good you got some

people that just uh whatever reason are lashing out they have uh maybe they're just being like neglected maybe their home life isn't that bad but they're just their parents aren't able to be there uh as much as they'd like or something like that 100 and what you just said about perspective and it's like you don't know what that person is going through you know what i mean when you're coming across this person they see the badge a lot of people when you pull people over and you can see them shaking and i'm thinking i'm just pulling you over you know i i get i get really nervous i don't know why i don't i'd never had anything crazy happen i mean well you know i did see my oldest brother get arrested a bunch and i've seen him uh know, like get arrested pretty forcefully and stuff.

So I guess I do have some. But, you know, he made a lot of bad choices. You know, so I just I kind of know now, like if I just kind of do what I'm told that there shouldn't be a problem. But not everybody feels that way. No, no. And sometimes that's when things go sideways, you know, and I could tell you when I used to start my shift, I'd open up my locker. I'd put my vest on. I'd have a picture of my family right there in the locker room.

And I knew what I was doing. I said, okay, I'm going to come home tonight, see my kids. I'm going to go out, try and make a difference in my community, keep the community safe, try and get the knuckleheads off the street. There's some monsters walking around out there. A lot of people don't realize that but if you think about who's being housed in san quentin some of these scary and we're talking you know from murder to you know you know hurting kids and you know the pedophile things and so forth and when we when we hit out that street you know we want to make a difference we want to make a positive impact we don't go out i mean i can speak for myself but some of the guys who i worked with you know, we want to make a difference. We want to make a positive impact. We don't go out.

I mean, I can speak for myself, but some of the guys who I worked with, you want to go out there and make a positive impact on the community. And it's, I'd have to say 99% of the guys that I work with feel that way. It's unfortunate. There is 1%. And I mean, I wish there was a way to get rid of that 1% because they make it so difficult for the rest of us to, you know, do the job. And I've heard other people say, hey, why don't you, you know, tell on him, get him out of the department. And that's, you know what, I mean, it's a great thing. But in reality, you might need that person backing you up on a call. And the last thing that I want is somebody, because I've actually had it happen to me, you know, not back me up on a call, you know, and I don't go home. So it's a difficult, I mean, it's not, it's not an easy as going in and, you know, telling the captain or the sheriff, we need to get rid of this guy.

It would also be tough if the person that you're talking about was like overly aggressive you know you saw that a couple times but you don't really know what they walked into or walked in on and i'm sure they're going to justify and kind of lie to you right say oh they were doing this they were doing that and you don't really you know you don't really know i said and you don't want to like out somebody you know it's a tough position that you're in but i think right now in today's climate and the way it is, you almost have to take that step. Yeah. I think other law enforcement at this point, if you don't want your job to be that difficult, like to where it is right now, where there's a target on you, then you need to pull that guy aside and say, hey, you're making it hard on all of us. Knock it off.

I don't think enough of that goes along. And there's reason for it. But I think now that a lot of the older guys are retiring out and you have a new breed coming in, some of the guys that you saw at the gym who I train with, and giving them some perspective and saying, hey, let's make a difference. Let's get our department to a point to where you can go up to someone and say, hey, I don't know what's going on in your personal life, but it's carrying over, spilling over on the street. Let's not do that because you're going to make it hard on everybody. You know, you make a mistake out there and it could cost someone's life. And we don't, I mean, that's, trust me, that's not why you go through all those. The hiring process is long. It's about a year

long to get hired. And then, I mean, they go on. Even back when you. It was almost a year. 30 years ago or whatever. Yeah. And what they did was they went all the way back to my grade school. They talked to some grade school teachers. They talked to your neighbors. Everywhere you've lived, they talked to your neighbors.

They want to know what type of person you were. So how some of these guys fall through the cracks is kind of scary. Because, I i mean they actually do a thorough background you have to take a polygraph test you do a psychological exam well i agree with you right there that it is scary because that would kind of imply that the people that are hiring are allowing that to fall through the crack you know they're like ah that's not that bad that's not and you know it's like you know they need to be audited and check themselves kind of so then it gets to be a difficult situation yes i agree with you i think it's

something that it's not an easy process some people do slip through the cracks and then once you're in it's difficult to get rid of somebody i mean the peer pressure is good i mean we had you know a lot of a lot of law enforcement agencies, they, they click up and you have, I mean, not that, you know, you want to talk about Oakland PD. I mean, Oakland PD has a black police officer association, a Latinos as police officers association. And it's, it's kind of, why is there so many separate associations? It's like, why isn't there just one police officer association? You guys are carrying a badge. You're there to protect and serve. And I don't want to sound like I'm bashing law enforcement.

It's not. I mean, it gave me the house that I have right now. It afforded me the opportunity to coach my kids and have a profession that I felt at the time was, hey, this is an honorable profession. So, I mean, I like like it but there definitely needs to be some changes and hopefully some you know quickly is there anything in place for you know the uh the the police officer that has been in you know service for like over 10 years and they can see like okay his morale is kind of going down a little bit is there any like anything in place or any protocols to help try to like bring morale of somebody back up or is it just like hey this is what you signed up for suck it up

it's a little of the latter unfortunately it is and that's something that you're as a i was a field training officer a defensive tactics instructor and um i'm out on the street you know 10 hours a day and you're handling your calls for service, you're focused on what you're doing. And when you have, you have a call for service that you might need assistance with, sometimes you're praying that a certain person doesn't show up to that call. And that's a bad feeling. If you're like, you know, this, this person's going to escalate this call, you know, and you're like, oh man, you cancel, cancel that assistance. I don't need, I'll handle it myself. And so, um, but as far as monitoring people, um, morale, that's a front line supervisor would be your Sergeant and he's handling, you know,

when you sit in these briefings, you see some of these police shows, cops and so forth, they're standing behind a desk and they've got 20 people in there that they're speaking to. And, um, it's, I have to say a lot of them know their people who, who you're working with because you're doing this for years and you can read people. And, you know, we've all been to schools. Like I went to the interview interrogation school, and I was telling you about, and you learn about neuro linguistics. You should be able to pick up on, you know, the people who you're supervising, you're supervising like you know are you having a rough time maybe maybe bring some people in and say hey what's going on you know check on you should be able to read that

and then you know as far as the administrators above those like lieutenants and captains a lot of them are shuffling papers and dealing with complaints and so forth, but it really falls on that sergeant. So there's no, I don't want to say liaison, but sort of like the NBA has a players association. They have somebody that the players can go to to speak to management and whatnot. Is there anything even close to that, or is it just you just talk to your superiors? You know, that's actually a pretty good point you just brought up. There are police officer associations, like the department I work for, the Sonoma County Sheriff's Office has an officer association.

And they have a president and there's officers in between. And you can actually go and talk to them. And I think it comes down to self-evaluation, each officer, sometimes you get caught up in it. And I, and I'm going to say, I'm guilty of it too. You'll be doing the job and you're trying to make ends meet. You're trying to keep everybody happy. You're worried about what if someone says something and you know, you're really at this point, you're just like, Hey, I want to go out and do my job, be left alone. And then you get caught in this run and you're doing it and doing it and doing it.

And then at some point, it'd be nice to say, hey, how's it going? How are things going? How's stuff going on with your family? You know, something like that. Just a checkup, like a little checkup to say, Hey, how are things going on? Um, no. How's the job treating you? Is there something that we can do?

Maybe a little bit different. No, we're hearing. And, but unfortunately there's not, you know, you're a police officer associations. They're usually help you with complaints. Someone's complaining. You have to go to them and you ask for it. Like say, Hey hey this is what's going on so but i mean it's uh and it's a position where you're actually carrying a gun you can make

a dick you're making life and death decisions i think it's that important if you're going to have you're going to issue someone that firearm and you'd go through the screening process and you give them this great training at the Academy and you're learning on the fly, like you learn a lot that I could tell you when I first, when I got in that patrol car, I was off the training program. It was my first day out there. It's scary. It's pretty scary. I mean, I'm six foot four, 230 pounds. And I can, I'm like, this is kind of scary. I'm out here by myself. I have a firearm. I might have to actually use it. And that's, you know, in my head, I'm like, man, I hope that situation never comes about. But he almost wonder like, man, are you ready for this? Are you, are you ready to go out there and take that car and take on that responsibility?

So it's, it's a lot,, you know, I think there could be, I don't want to say more training, but maybe more some evaluation, like where people come in and guys can come in and maybe have a briefing and say, hey, you know, this is just between us in here. You know, this is what we're almost like an intervention kind of, you know what I mean, bring a guy in and kind of have an intervention and police ourselves because if they don't want that, like if these officers don't want to do that, well, guess what? Now, look what's happening.

Because not to, I mean, I'll bring it up because, you know, it's the elephant in the room, Chauvin, the guy in Minnesota who, you know, the incident that happened with George Floyd. Law enforcement doesn't want to talk about that. A lot of guys say, 99% of us, 99.9% of us, when that happened, all of a sudden, oh, my God, that guy's an idiot. And everybody was against that. All the guys that I worked with, everybody was 100%. What he did was wrong. I was a defensive tactics instructor, and I took pride in my job, and we didn't teach that. You know, we don't teach that.

Once those handcuffs are on and he's saying that, hey, I can't breathe, you know what, sit him up. Sit that man up, you know, try and defuse the situation. Why are you making it worse? And it's almost as if, are you telling me that's the first time that Chauvin ever did that? And again, this is kind of like, I'm sounding, I'm coming down on law enforcement, but you know, the situation that we're in at this point, you got to do some self-reflection and decide, you know, I don't want this ever to happen again. I want, I want it to go back to where people respected law enforcement, that people don't fear us when we show up. You know what I mean?

Oh, here's Mike. He's the community officer. I know Mike. You know what I mean? He's a good guy. He's a good dude. So that's what you want. But when you see stuff that what he did, that wasn't his first incident.

You know, I don't have the crystal ball to say, like, why didn't they do this? But if I did, it'd be like, Hey, having a little intervention, picking guys off the street who might be struggling and just saying, circling, say, Hey man, things are looking a little bit, you know, out there, maybe out of control. Can we, what's going on? And if you take defense to that between when everyone's saying it, now you, now, you know, there's a problem because you really shouldn't. Cause if everybody's coming in and saying, you know, you circle and you trust your brothers in law enforcement, you know what I mean?

So I think that would be, you know, that's one way to, to approach it. I was having a conversation with a few friends the other day and, um, quite a few of them are in favor of defunding the police. They're very anti-police, right? And I was kind of, you know, I was just trying to explain to him cause we had a few cops on and they were talking about like yourself, the stressing the police. They're very anti-police, right? I was just trying to explain to them because we had a few cops on and they were talking about, like yourself, the stress of the job. But a few of them got on the rant that cops, mostly every day, it's busy work and it's rare that they have these really bad situations where they'll have to pull a gun, et cetera.

And you're talking to me about this and you're saying that it's every day there's something. Even though you're on the phone sometimes and you're out, there's usually something that just kind of degrades at you and kind of erodes at what you do. Is that an everyday thing, or is it something that happens? I know it could range, but is that an everyday thing for a lot of cops, what you're talking about with us? Or is it more like once a week or something like that? Yeah. You know, I think a lot of it depends on the agency that you work for some departments are a lot you know have a lot more stress um the sheriff's office where i live not not not too bad there was definitely things that happened i mean we've had a lot of a lot of history

at that agency unfortunately we've lost officers um but yes you're you're right it starts to peel away you know you come in at this with this bright eyed you know you have this mantra that you're going to go out there and make a difference and pretty soon it starts to erode and then you know by year 10 i mean that was a you know a good call and it's like stuff like that it starts peeling away more and more and you become more callous you know and and unfortunately i mean that job can do that and it's i don't want to sound like an excuse it's a reality you know and for the people that are saying you know defund the police what i would suggest is and this isn't me being a smart you know smart alec um is i would say let me arrange a tour of San Quentin for you.

Let me arrange a tour. If you go through San Quentin for a couple hours, you walk through there. If you still feel that way after touring through that facility, then talk to me. Let's have a conversation after that. Because there's a lot of good people. Like, I look at mark is is a really really good guy he's on the spectrum of we're really really good nice guy you know he'd he'd help someone in need right and then but there's always the opposite end of that spectrum

right yeah the whole realm you have super nice people like one of my favorite people in the world work done is one of my favorite people i mean don't know if a lot of people don't know his story, but without going into that, he's up here. I hold that guy to the highest regard. On the other hand, then you have like the Jeffrey Epsteins, and there's some monsters that walk around out there. And a lot of those monsters that people don't see every day, they're housed in San Quentin. How do you think they got there? You know what I mean? Social workers didn't put

them in there. You know, who's keeping these, you know, the, the murderers are seeing that we see. And, you know, one of the hardest things that I ever had to do was show up at a traffic traffic scene where there was a fatality. And I had to go and part of my job as the, as a sheriff's deputy was we had to go notify next to Ken. And I was like, I opened up his wallet. I'm already feeling miserable. I see just married, you know, baby in the picture. Now I have to go knock on her door and tell her that she lost her husband in a traffic accident.

And I carry that. I've carried that with me for 30 years. And I carry that. I've carried that with me for 30 years. And I remember her and breaking down and I had to hold her, you know, holding her because she just, you know, had a really difficult time with it. There's a lot of good that we do. I mean, it seems to me like, and rightfully so, the bad incidents, they get magnified. And they should be.

They should be. And those knuckleheads need to be weeded out of that. I wish there was a way. I wish I could wave a wand or figure out a way. I mean, I'm a bright guy, but I'm not, you know, super Elon Musk bright. But figure out a way to get rid of, you know, weed these guys out so that profession could, you know, go back to being an honorable profession. And basically, it is an honorable profession, but have people have that perspective.

The public. Regain their faith. What do you think some of the answers are? Do you think some of the answers might be to maybe just recruit better from the beginning? From the jump? A lot of people, they get into law enforcement for particular reasons, but we don't know why, we don't know their history, but maybe

if we pursue somebody who we already kind of view as heading down the right path and maybe say, hey, do you ever think about becoming a, because I know that you do that to people at the gym. But do you think that something like that might be, I mean, there's not like one answer to this thing, right? But do you think something like that might be, you know, of benefit? I do, and that's why I do that. I see a lot of the young guys at the gym who are fit, who have, through talking, you met Taylor at the gym, young Rohnert Park police officer.

And, you know, we try to mentor these young guys and steer some guys into law enforcement who have their act together and have a good head on their shoulders. They're already strong. They already got some goals. I mean, you can't say it's a good person just from seeing them at the gym, but you get the idea that, yeah, and you also get the idea that they are dedicated to something and they kind of get some of the overall picture.

Well, and to be honest with you, a lot of them come to me. They know that what I've been through, they know that I went through the shooting incident. They know that I was a defensive tactical instructor. They see that I'm 55 years old and I'm still hitting it in the gym as hard as I can. And they come over and they ask me. And when they do, I'm more than happy to share with them. As far as having answers for that, I'll be honest with you, Mark. I think that's a great question. And I think some people definitely need to get together. I think you need to have community leaders meet with law enforcement leaders, get together and hammer it out fast. with law enforcement leaders, get together, and hammer it out fast.

Because right now, I don't see it getting better. And they need to do that. You need to have community leaders and get with some sheriffs and police chiefs. And this is probably going to sound kind of mean, but phasing out the older guys and getting these younger guys in is going to definitely help i mean and that's you i'm going to have the old guard probably going to be yeah some people might say well now what do you mean by that you're taking experience off the street yeah you are taking some of you are and and that is valuable because having guys and like i said i get to pass on my experience but they might be able to make the call from a desk rather than being on the

street right or or make them instructors maybe get them off the street. And like what you were pointing to or alluding to is that sometimes when you've experienced so much, maybe it's your time to step back off the street. You know, maybe you can do a desk job or an instructor's job at the police academy and kind of go over things. And that interaction with the community is no longer one where it's, you see each other at a, at a high to high level. Sometimes I think some law enforcement come in and they think they're in this level and the public's here. No,

it should be like right here. What are maybe a few things that you don't think police should be involved in at all? Do you have anything where you're just like, man, I hated doing that. And it always just kind of like, it took a lot of time for me and it was aggravating and it wasn't beneficial to anybody. It just kind of was annoying or, or, or difficult. Like you said,

you know, reporting to the person, you know, that their husband died and stuff like that. Marijuana was at the, this is, we're talking about when I, this is prior to Prop 215 coming in and being legalized. That, to me, was a great waste of time. And this is my own personal perspective. And I'll, I mean, obviously, I'm retired. I can't get in trouble for it. Hopefully not. But I didn't have time for marijuana. I just, I felt like, you know what, guys who, you know, and Joe Rogan can probably

attest to this. You smoke some weed and you sit on the couch and you chill out. How many guys, you know, I've never come across guys who, you know, are out there wanting to fight, you know, methamphetamine, different story. You know what I mean? PCP,p different story but when you're talking about you know mushrooms or marijuana i felt like that's such a there's so much money poured into um you know marijuana you know take trying to get marijuana off the street and i was just like man why are you doing that it's just it's kind of stupid and a and a lot of guys who i worked with felt that way. I get where, you know, oh, it's on the books, so it's illegal, and you've got to enforce it. But as far as I took discretionary measures, so I was like, no, I'm not.

I'd pull somebody over, and if you had a bag of weed, I'm like, I don't have time for that. Get out of here. Because now I'm tied up for a few hours. I can't help somebody because of what? From marijuana? So that was my own personal that. Get out of here. Because now I'm tied up for a few hours. I can't help somebody. Because of what? From marijuana? So that was my own personal perspective. So that was something.

I mean, the other drugs. What about other drugs? I guess, what do you think would happen if we were just like, fuck it. Just screw it. Just let drugs. Just let them go. Well, that's a good question but i can tell you from firsthand experience with with methamphetamine methamphetamine

it's a it's a horrible drug i mean there was something that there was a rick james part where he was with rick james with uh dave chappelle man that's a hell of a drug he's talking about cocaine it's a hell of a drug that sits in my brain and it just cracks me up because I think about like, yeah, yeah, yes it is. You know, people do some crazy stuff on methamphetamine and cocaine, but I think the one aspect that people aspect that they don't see is it takes a lot of chemicals to make methamphetamine. And when I worked with the task force, the drug enforcement agencies and, you know, Bureau of Narcotics Enforcement and our own task force, and you take down a super lab,

and you see all the chemicals that are dumped and dumped by where you live. I mean, out in Bodega Bay, out on the side, out where you would never expect it, and there would be a super lab, and they'd just be dumping all these chemicals on the side of the road. And it's a hazardous situation. Here comes dumb Mike coming up, driving up, and seeing all these chemicals, and I walk up there, and there's fumes coming up there, and I shouldn't even be 100 yards next to this thing. This is a crazy, this is a hazmat situation.

You have to stop, get back, call hazmat. So as far as that, you know, it's not good. I mean, people making methamphetamine, you can spend $500. You know, this is back in the day when you can buy, you know, Sudafed over the counter when it wasn't controlled. $500 worth of Sudafed and some chemicals you can get from Walmart, and you can make $50,000, $100,000 worth of methamphetamine. So, of course, people were going to do that. Start a business. Let's go. Yeah, Breaking Bad. That's right.

Breaking Bad. I wanted to know, because I have a group of friends that, like, we, Andrew knows about this, Andrew knows about this. Mark knows about this. We got a group of people and we were all talking about our experiences with police. Right. And a majority, if not all of the black men in the room, a lot of them professionals, business owners, um, good guys, generally, they've literally all had bad experiences

with the police. That was just, it just seemed kind of unjust, you know? all had bad experiences with the police that was just seemed kind of unjust, you know? So I'm wondering, do you know if there's a, if there's a sentiment in terms of police, in terms of like, ah, like dealing with if, when they go and deal with black individuals, are they, do you feel that some of them are a little bit more scared to go into those communities and deal with individuals like that? Or do they, I mean, I know it it sounds it's kind of a weird question, but when so many people are saying like, damn, like I have such bad experiences and all the white guys in the room are like, oh, I've never had a bad experience with police in my life. It's just like it seems kind of weird. That perspective that you have is something that I can never experience.

See, that's I i mean that's what my skin i mean i'm i'm tanned i'm you know have that jacked and tanned but on a serious side of it it's i i can never experience that i mean i can try and put myself in your shoes and and try to understand what that must feel like as far as having, you know, you're pulling me over because of the color of my skin or why are you doing this because of the color of my skin. And that's, to me, it makes me sick. It makes me sick to my stomach.

I mean, I'll be honest with you. And it's, I think, as far as being intimidated, I think there is an intimidation factor. And I can say, again, I'm not a small guy, but I can picture someone who's, you know, maybe 5'8", 5'9", 150 pounds, and maybe they have a pit bull attitude, maybe they don't. But if you're in a situation where you are dealing with someone like that, hell yeah, I bet you're intimidated. You know, so that's something. like that, hell yeah, I bet you're intimidated.

You know, so that's something. You'd probably be more intimidated with the more unfamiliar you are with the way somebody looks. Somebody with a tattoo on their neck doesn't mean they're a bad person. I mean, not at all, but right. But a lot of times on the news or TV, like you see, you know, right? It's the eyes. It's visualization. It's what we see. And it's like you brought up a right it's it's the eyes it's visualization it's what we see and it's like you brought up a great thing with the tattoos um i would see someone with tattoos and i would

immediately look to see if they had gang affiliated tattoos immediately my brain goes to long for and even to this day i'll look for the see if there's a gang affiliation i almost always assume if someone's covered in tattoos that they had something, they got, they had something happen that's traumatic in their life. And that's like my own, like I made that up. Like that's,

there's, I don't have any evidence of that. I don't have, you know, but sometimes when you do see somebody covered in tattoos, they have a history of drugs or they have, but it's not all the time. No,

a hundred percent. No, a hundred percent. No, but%. No, 100% no. But I'm just telling you that switch gets flipped for us. And I can give you my perspective, and I can kind of get, I don't want to go too far out on a limb and speak for other people, but I have seen it firsthand that for some people, that badge does make them 6'4 and 250 pounds,

and they're not, and that's scary. And it's like, so when you hear it said, like, take that badge off, it's like, well, that's where that's coming from. Because you wouldn't talk to me that way if you weren't wearing that. So from my perspective is whenever I dealt with someone, I came from that area. So I'm going to talk to you the way, you know, that I want to be talked to by law enforcement. Just because I'm wearing this uniform doesn't mean that I'm any different than you.

I'm Mike, the citizen. I'm going to go out there. I'm doing a job and I'm going to talk to you the way we're talking right now and deescalate things. Sometimes, though, I mean, we can do that. And if it starts to rise up, well, that's when, you know, I have to start thinking, okay, why is this escalating? And that has to happen quickly because I want to go home to my kids, you know, just like you, you know, you want to go home to your family or you want to go home to your spouse.

And that's something that we trying to de-escalate things without going i think a lot of it has to do with attitude and the personalities and i think if there was a way to come kind of circling back to what you were saying there's a way to weed out that personality that the person can't come from you almost want like a labrador type person where they're just you you know what I mean? Kind of mellow, you know, when you need them to, once you need them to be protective and sheepdog type thing where, you know what I mean? But most part, you know, real chill, kind of handle your business and not have that, but not come from that, not come from a, you know, the perspective of where

you're always on. Can I ask you a question about de-escalation? For example, I've been pulled over a few times. And immediately, I turn off my music. I put my hands on my hood. I put my key out. I put my wallet out. My window's down. My voice is eight times higher.

And I sound like a kid. So no one gets scared of me. But I am curious about this. You see a lot of videos on Instagram and social media now. And we were I was having a conversation with friends about this, too, where people understand that, like, you know, typically a police officer can't tell you to, like, open your trunk or open bags in your backseat, et cetera. Right. Fourth Amendment. Right.

uh fourth amendment right but you then get curious like if they do ask if i want to de-escalate the situation i should probably just try and comply right that that's a great question here there is yeah if you're like oh it's my fourth amendment right i'll have to do that but then you're then you're worried that yeah you're causing confrontation right yeah you're concerned about the confrontation and in a perfect world that should end it right there. But then that sends a red flag, you know, because again, I am a human being and I start to go,

okay, well, why don't you want me to, well, I don't want you to, because it's my fourth amendment, right. You know,

and it's a legal search and seizure. So, but then what happens is, and I can tell you this from experience is law enforcement. We start going, okay, well, how, how can I get in there? What kind of nexus can I do to get in there even without his consent?

And I'm not talking about illegally. I'm talking about like if I smell marijuana or if I smell. Suspicion, right? Yeah, you have to tie things together. You can't just violate someone's civil rights. And if you do that, guess what? You're going to be held in front. You're going to lose your job and you're gonna get sued and and rightfully so in

order to do this job you're taught through the academy you know what people's rights are and you don't want cops out there doing that but what you said is getting back to your point i i i would say no i would just say you know what i i don't want to come across you know in a negative manner but you know my i just my fourth amendment i don't you know i really don't think you have a right to search my stuff and i'd say no and it's difficult because if you're recording you know and in in this day and age yeah in this day and age i'd i would record it i'm i mean law enforcement's wearing a body camera, and sometimes conveniently it falls off. And you're like, well, how did that?

Well, in a tussle, it does come off. But sometimes stuff comes off. Record it. Record that situation. And again, these conversations that we're having, it makes me feel bad. I'm coming from a, like, I feel bad. Would you maybe recommend to citizens to, like, record audio or record video? Like, when they do get pulled over, maybe you just put your phone in, like.

Probably without doing it in an aggressive way. Yeah, you're not, like, holding it like that. You just have it there. Not to escalate, like we said, not to escalate the situation, but to actually protect yourself. And it's something that. So it's not a not a so it's not a bad idea really no 100 and you as a police officer do you think you would like be pissed off that the guy me no i'd actually be i'd be happy because sometimes when you hear some of the stuff

that's said yeah yeah again yeah against us some of the things that we're accused of the body camera like when body camera first came out you had a faction of the people of law enforcement who didn't like it and then you had a faction who said man thank goodness it's here because we're getting accused of things and it's like now we have video proof that no i didn't say that no i didn't do this and look at this person's behavior so it's fantastic from my perspective now i can you know show my supervisor and show the judge, look, this is different than what this person is reporting it. So it's the same thing. I would say we all have smartphones.

Absolutely record that interaction. Don't escalate it. Don't do it in a manner which you're going to – if that's what you're going for, then go right ahead. But then you're stirring the pot. And then – sorry. No, I'm sorry sorry i didn't mean to cut you off do you think it'd be a good idea to let the police officer know like hey like i have my phone out i'm recording audio video whatever uh as you know whatever just as a backup or as a proof of what our you know you don't have to say this but if you want to keep it kind of the escalate i'd say hey officer do you mind if i if i record this

just for my safety and in your safety do you mind if I record this just for my safety and your safety? Do you mind if I just record this? And then by doing that, by saying that, it's going to bring the officer down. I don't think, like, I never took that, you know, got my uniform on, got in the patrol car in hopes for confrontation. Just the opposite. You know, you go in, you want to be able to help people. I have countless stories that I could tell you. At some point, I'll tell you a few of the good ones.

But where I've helped people, you know, recovered stolen cars to, you know, for people who, you know, that was their sole means of transportation. And I was able to recover that car for them. It made me feel great. I was riding high for that. That's what you thought you signed up for probably in the beginning yeah we're gonna catch the bad guy and yeah few and far between a few and far between but it was fun but then there's you know it just comes down to I think each officer has has to kind of look back and say you know look inside and and see what where you're at in your career.

Is this the career for me? Is this changing me as a person in a negative way? Then, you know what, choose a different career. Go be a fireman. Everyone loves a fireman. What about someone just like berating you? You know, you pull them over or there's a situation and they just start just laying into you. And they're saying like, you know, personal stuff, but it has nothing to do with, you know, has nothing to do with what happened.

Like you, you know, you are questioning them for something completely different. I mean, that has to be like aggravating. And then it's probably a little difficult to stick to like what you're supposed to be doing right that's a great point i mean i've had it happen i mean you know i it's it's difficult because part of you wants to you know handle it like you would on the street on the street with without the badge but you know no you can't do that you're you're professional and you're trained a certain way and if you want to keep putting food on the table you're going to treat this person you know professionally so you have to have that mindset

um and is it hard absolutely do sometimes and you see these videos where sometimes these officers slip and they're just you know and and and what what goes viral is that is that guy doing that guy doing he just handled probably 15 calls and then on his 15th call someone set him up and now he snapped and now he snapped absolutely you know and it's like dang man i just handled 14 calls it Everything was perfect. And now number 15, that switch got flipped and I just went full on, full auto. And it's difficult. It's not, for me, I'm a pretty mellow person. It took a lot to get me wine.

And it's like I had two older brothers and, you know, we were from the East Coast. So, you know, we're used to being. People are laying it on thick. Yes, yes. We grew up that way. You had to have thick skin. And that's something that, that you had to have thick skin and that's something that that job you need thick skin if you're thin skin that is a wrong job for you because you are

going to get tested and then you know what when you do get tested you know it's going to reveal what type of character what type of person you are did you try to did you try to talk to people a lot like ask them questions and say like even though you're suspicious or even though you thought you knew something did you say hey man like you know i'm going to search your car and like you may as well just tell me not like what's what's going on like we're gonna we're probably gonna you know we're probably gonna find something or whatever your suspicion is did you really try to you know try to give them the benefit of the doubt and be patient with it i guess it's like an easter egg hunt mark it the benefit of the doubt and be patient with it, I guess. It's like an Easter egg hunt, Mark.

It's one of the things, doing that job when you're talking about looking for drugs as far as methamphetamine or heroin or someone trafficking. We're not talking the little baggy thing. And you've done your homework, and by homework, I mean you've done a lot of time surveilling and doing things. And you pull somebody over, and you have probable cause to pull them over. And then you can kind of smell that. Methamphetamine has a strong smell. And it's something that, I mean, once you smell it, there's meth in this car. You can hide it with, you usually guys try and hide it with a bunch of those trees, those Christmas trees, and you start to laugh and you're like, okay.

But as far as when you find that and you see that kilo, you get high off that and you're like, man, I want one kilo. Okay, now I want to build that one kilo into two kilos. And you become almost like a drug addict to you know getting that getting that first ounce that you found is that's no longer that's no longer part of it now i want to get the pounds but when you do that and i and i did that the danger increases as well because now you're dealing with people who won't think twice about putting a bullet in you. And I experienced that. Yeah, why don't you shift gears a little bit here and tell us about some of your, I guess,

kind of major run-ins that you had. Well, first, a positive one. I just want to tell you, we'll start off with a positive, if you don't mind. There was a pastor, one day, could do my thing, jump in the patrol car and get a report of a stolen vehicle. Show up, and there's the pastor. day, you know, do my thing, jump in the patrol car and get a report of a stolen vehicle, show up. And there's a pastor, um, 70, you know, with his wife and he's saying, Hey, my car just got stolen. And I want to tell him like the likelihood of me recovering your car, sir, is like one in a million. I'm sorry. You know, I'm filling the paperwork out. He gave me the description, but something struck me that day. I don't know it was i'm like i'm just gonna drive around in some of the shady areas like on the outskirts

where someone might go to hide a car trying so about three four hours later i'm driving down highway 116 and off on the side of the road i see the i run the plate and that's the car and then as soon as i run the plates i see two people take off running through a field so i put it out and it starts blaring on my computer screen stolen vehicle and i have dispatchers yelling you know edward edward 71 has a stolen vehicle and he's in pursuit and i'm in foot pursuit i'm running through fields and i wanted catching these two guys guy and a girl and handcuffing them, bringing them back and that feeling. And then they got taken off. They got taken off to jail. I got to, and I got to return the car back to,

I went and picked up the pastor, brought him back, got gas for the car. And, and I would do that for anybody. You know i mean that's the thing that feeling that i got after doing that that was that yeah that made my year i was like man this is an incredible feeling next day i i show up to work and there's a big old plate of brownies that she had made and brought to the department i'm like man this is law enforcement this is why i took this job you know split down you know there's the other end of the spectrum you know the the drug aspect of it and um you know i started with you know finding a little bag and then it you know you would you would work your confidential informant and informant would order up some drugs and you know you'd pull that person over and you'd find the drugs like easter egg

hunting you'd look for you find it and you'd get a'd get a high off of it. That's the best way I can describe it. And it went from a little bag to an ounce, then from an ounce to like a pound. And pretty soon I'm working my way up into like multiple pounds. And then we found I had an informant call me and he goes, there's a large drug stash with rifles, guns, and they're selling drugs next to this little school in the town of Rohnert Park. And it struck a chord with me because I'm like, okay, you're dealing with drug and stuff, and there's a school right next door. That's not okay.

So I do my homework, tell my partner. I said, hey, this is a great project. Let's get a couple other guys, and let's take this guy in. And this guy's a gang member. He's been previously deported twice and, you know, been to prison twice and just not your, you know, run-of-the-mill, you know, nice guy. So we get down to where I see his vehicle and I have a neighbor called in, said, yeah, he showed up, he's inside. So we do our homework.

We find out that there's a probation clause to get in, and he has a warrant for his arrest. So we have all the legal means to get into the house. So we set up on the house, and of course, you know, you do everything the way you were trained. And in this particular incident, I felt like something was different. And we're talking about instincts and such, but the hairs on the back of my neck, when we started climbing those stairs to go inside, the hairs on the back of my neck just started popping. I'm like, oh, something's different. I can't explain why.

I'll tell you in a minute. But, you know, that climb up those stairs, something was definitely different. There was pucker factor times 10. So we go in through, pardon my description, but we get through the door. And hiding behind the, there's a little doorway, walk through it, and then there's a cracked opening. And I see this door is opening, and I signal to my partner, we announced that, you know, sheriff's office coming in, sheriff's office coming in, come out, come out. No one's coming out.

I'm like, oh, we got to go in. So I had heard that this person had firearms, and I'm thinking, man, if he has a rifle, that rifle's going to go right through my vest. I'm toast so i see the door cracked open and it's me coming in walking in and i just as i touch that door so i touch the door that's called slicing the pie it's like cutting the pie they want you to take angles to where you can see as safe as possible in case someone's hiding so i'm slicing that pie and as soon as i come around that a little, I touch that door, and that was the train. He popped up from, crouched down, and put the, I mean, it was a 9-millimeter Glock,

and I saw a puff of smoke come out, and I felt this burning sensation right on the left side of my chest. I'm like, ow, that's burning. He got me. And immediately, I'm like, okay, if you got me, then I'm taking you with me. You're leaving with me. So then I returned fire. We're gun to gun.

And my round. You're only a couple feet away from each other. Two feet away. And I saw the puff of smoke, saw the top of his head, smelled that, felt the burning, immediately got angry. Couldn't believe this was happening. I'm like, damn, almost 19 years on, now this is happening. So then I return fire. My round goes through his hand, and his second round whizzes by my head

and hits a doorframe, makes a loud sound. And then my second round knocked him down. And I get up, and as i get up i start walking to and i don't want to make sure i don't step in front of my cover officer so he doesn't you know i get shot by friendly fire so he's leaving and then you know i follow get out the door and i throw somewhere like a movie you're throwing the rounds back hoping it doesn't shoot me in the back of the head and i make my way out and as i come out i yell to my i pull my vest away and i open my vest and i see that there's blood coming out and it's coming out pretty good i'm

like oh damn this best supposed to stopped around so i yelled to my my buddy joe and i'm like joe hey i'm hit you can call an ambulance so he's he's excited at this point. I mean, obviously, he sees the blood, and he sees me, and why I didn't call for myself, probably because I would have been screaming like a little girl on the radio. So I, you know, delegated, he's stumbling out of the, out of the doorway and I'm on the side of the door and I'm waiting for him to come out to see if he still has a gun in his hand. Well, he comes out and he has a gun in his hand. And right before I pulled the trigger, my partner starts shooting. And then, you know, he took him down and then he comes over to me and he's like, I'm like, dude, where's the ambulance? I go, I'm not gonna, I don't want to code here you know in this parking lot um i go if it's not here in a minute i'm jumping in the car and i'm driving to the hospital i'm not not dying here yeah he's

like no man don't don't go anywhere you'll crash the car and you won't make it i'm like you got one minute so i jumped in the car i I'm waiting. I'm keeping pressure. And in my head, I keep seeing, you know, my childhood and all these thoughts are going through my head. And I'm looking down at him like, I'm still bleeding. Yeah, it's still there. So I turn the car over. I start to drive. And my partner jumps over and jumps in the car.

He goes, no, they're coming. They're coming. They're right here. So the ambulance, you know, pulls and um code three to the to the hospital and the paramedic has oxygen on she's looking down and she's looking at my vitals and she goes do you want me to call your wife and that's that was like a that scared me i'm like am i not going to make it is this the last phone call that i'm going to be able to call her and she goes i don't know i'm like i don't want to hear that you tell me yeah you're going to make it? Is this the last phone call that I'm going to be able to call her? And she goes, I don't know.

I'm like, I don't want to hear that. You tell me, yeah, you're going to be okay. Go ahead and call and tell your wife you're going to be okay. That's what I wanted to hear, but I didn't get that. So I respect it. You know, she's, you know, just saying that. And I go, no, I'm not going to make that phone call. So I'll wait till I get to the hospital. I didn't want to leave that burden.

You know, that phone call. Hey, honey, I got shot at work. Sorry. Yeah, we don't know what's going to happen. Yeah. know i'm gonna be crying you know so meanwhile while i'm going to hospital there's two deputies showing up at my house and they show up at the house and she answers the door and that's never a good sign and she's a police officer's wife so she knows when two guys show up it's not good good news. So she almost passes out. And they're emotional.

And they're like, hey, Mike, I shot. We don't know what's going on. And so they rush me in. And the doctor comes in with the scalp. He's looking for the bullet. He can't find it. He's asking me. I think it's in me.

I go, it's bleeding pretty good. Maybe it's in me. I don't know. He runs an x-ray over it. He goes, no. He goes, you're lucky. There's no bullet in there. You just got, you have a nice hole there. We're going to sew you up and move you out of here.

So that was pretty interesting. Yeah. So where'd the bullet go? Did it like go in and came out? It actually went in. Yeah, the way they say it depicted was it actually went in, created the hole, and then the vest caught it and pulled it back out. So it created the hole, and then the vest caught it and pulled it back out. So it created the hole.

And the whole left side of my body just black and blue. You know, and it's kind of weird. I didn't feel the pain. I was near in shock at this point. You know, I'm grateful at this point, too. I'm like, hey, I'm going to be alive. I made it through this. You know, I'm thankful.

I had all kinds of crazy questions after that. You know, people are like, well, how come you only shot, you know,'m thankful um they had all kinds of crazy questions after that you know people well how can we only shot you know two or three times i'm like oh okay let's trade places you know what i mean you you can't monday morning quarterback a situation like that when you're in it and then someone's shooting back at you because you'll see guys at the range and they're like dead on perfect you know center mass well that target's not shooting back at you because you'll see guys at the range and they're like dead on perfect you know center mass well that target's not shitting back at you i mean and then when you get hit like that's the thing i've got to talk to an academy class and it was interesting they asked what did it feel like and i said imagine taking a hot metal poker and shoving that into your chest and leaving it there so and but the doubt of not knowing whether that was in there was kind of, that was, you know, worrisome.

Did you retire like immediately or did it take time for you to talk to your wife and figure out what you wanted to do next? My wife made that decision. It was the very next day. You might have been contemplating this anyway? Part of me at that point, I was like, okay, I know this conversation is going to come up because I've had other incidences when she was saying, you know what? She was, I don't know if I can take anymore. And to me, I knew this was icing on the cake. But for me, the part I don't want to leave out, though, was I showed up to work the next day.

And guys were like, what are you doing here you can't be here like i'm on the schedule dickheads and they're like no you can't you can't you can't be here you have to go get cleared before you come back and my brain wasn't working you know i was just like oh i'm coming back to work and throw my stuff you know i need a new vest i need this i need that and um i called the vest company and I told them and they put it out on the PA into the factory. And you can hear everyone clapping and stuff. They're like, hey, we got another save. So that was awesome.

You know, it was pretty cool. So anyway, I showed up to work the next day and people were like looking at me crazy. I'm like, you can't be here. And I probably they were probably like, what's he doing here? You like, you can't be here. And they were probably scared. What's he doing here? You know, what are you doing here? So anyway, they went back home, had to do some evaluations. Wife talked to me, and she's like, hey.

She goes, that's it. She goes, you have 20 years in. She goes, you're done. She goes, it's either your career or me and your kids. I got to put you through enough. I'm sorry. But it definitely affected me. It definitely affected me psychologically.

And I think you go through the depression, you go through the stress, some scary stuff that I went through, standing in front of the bed, swinging a baton at an invisible. One night I woke up and I grabbed my baton. I thought someone was in our room trying to kill us. And I'm in front of that bed and I'm swinging that baton like a madman. I'm sweating. And my poor wife is yelling and screaming.

She's like, wake up, wake up, wake up. And so finally I wake up and here I am with this baton and I'm sweating. I'm like, what happened? She goes, you were just swinging that thing like you were trying, you know, kill somebody. And she goes, you can't be, you were just swinging that thing like you were trying to kill somebody. And she goes, you can't be with her. She goes, get rid of all your work stuff. Move your gun, your safe, and your baton.

And she goes, you're on couch duty for a little bit until you get squared away. So she's a strong woman. Like I said, I love watching stuff with you and Andy and how supportive she is. Thank you. And for me, it was the same way with my wife, Jill. She's very supportive. I put her through a lot, and that job does put spouses through a lot. So I owed her that. That was something that definitely I owed her.

What did you move on to? After that, it was caring for. I had a little special needs son, and my bond with him grew 10 times, 10 fold. So I got to spend a lot of times with my son, Caden. And then I, one day was talking to a psychiatrist because I had a lot of stress issues. And she's saying, she goes, you know what, Michael? She goes, your stress that you're feeling, she goes, your brain is like a bucket. And you keep putting the stress in this bucket and you're not dumping any of it out. And she goes, and that bucket's filling up really fast with you. You're on hyper-vigilant. You see things

and you go to a hundred. She says, you got to find a way to dump that bucket out. So when she said that visually, I mean, it struck. Okay. it's spilling over into my life, and it's causing friction. No, I'm not the person that I was. I'm turning into a jerk. So being a defensive taxes instructor and also being in fitness, being fit during work, the shrink goes, Why don't you go back into the gym and go work out, work out your stress and take that avenue to dump out that bucket. So I went into the gym, started working out. I came across a friend, a really good friend of mine.

His name is Pete. I haven't seen him in a long time. And he was doing some bicep curls with this board. And I go, Pete, what is that? He goes, I'll check this out. So anyway, long story short, he and I went, he offered, he goes, let's go into business together. Let's turn this board into something. And right away, I'm like, Mark Bell, Slingshot, you know, watch the movies we've met, talk, you're humble, you know, super nice guy. And I'm like, man, let's put some work and put some effort into this bicep board

and let's make this thing, you know, take off. So that was something that we worked on. It was great because I could put my focus, attention into something positive. How long ago did you start that? That was, I want to say about a little over a year ago, two years ago, we went into. Prior to that, I was doing a little, dabbled in bodybuilding, did a physique contest just to cross that off the 50 years old. It's like, okay, I want to get a 500-pound deadlift, and I also want to do a bodybuilding show. So I'm like, what can I do?

You have chicken legs. You're definitely not doing bodybuilding. So let's go into physique. Board shorts are going to hide those for you. Not, not well enough. They saw my, my calves and it was like, okay, um, good choice on the. So, um, anyway, went into, did a little, um, show with honey Ram bond, his show up here in Sacramento. It was fun. fun i put a lot of time a lot of effort in it and when i saw that you went into bodybuilding and you worked with honey and how well you did i was like dang that's stuff that i gotta do next time you know and if i wind up doing it but um the bodybuilding thing was great working as a mentor with young guys

young law enforcement young guys um i'd like to mention there's a young boy, a young guy, high school kid. His name is Sawyer and he lost his dad to brain cancer. And my little boy's special needs and he was, we were working out, we were doing sprints at a track and this young man, senior in high school, Sawyer was doing tire flips. And I'm looking over and I don't know him. And my son was running over to him and starts talking to me. He's, and it's the cutest thing. And this 18 year old high school kid is playing with my special needs son melted my heart. So then I find out his backstory and it's like he lost his dad and you know, his mom's a nurse and she's an awesome woman,

Kelly Thompson. And, um, long story. I said, Sawyer, why don't you come and train with me at my place? And they go, we'll train and let's get you. I see you doing here. You're by yourself. You're working out at my place and we're going to train. And the mom's like, how much do I owe you? And I'm like, you're kidding, right? And you go, no, no, I'm doing this because I like Sawyer.

I like you. And I was told to pay it forward. So that through some of the therapy sessions that I went through was like, pay it forward, you know, do something without asking for something back. You know, it's great to have reciprocal,

you know, people in your life, but it's also, you know, great when you can actually do something like what you're doing for me. You know, it, it means a lot to me.

And it's like the changes that you, these little things that you can do, the changes that you can make in people's lives, positive things, that's what it's all about. You know what I mean? I mean, feeling good and helping people, man, it's such a great feeling. So I got an opportunity to do that. He went out to San Diego State, played rugby at San Diego State. We still keep in contact when he comes back. We train together. And he's getting it. It's funny because he was asking about law enforcement. state when we play rugby san diego state we still keep in contact when he comes back we train together and he's getting it it's funny because he was asking about law enforcement i go no going

to fire and he's gonna be a fireman so um you know he he listened and um just a great young man and again the positive changes that we can meet, we can meet people and make positive things. It's going to make a better place. I don't think we recognize how simple it is to help people. I think that a lot of times we think like, oh, I don't have this, I don't have that, so I can't really help anybody. I think people usually think like it's just financial, you know. But like you think about the best like gifts that you've ever been given or the best, like, I'm not really talking about, like, a present necessarily. But usually the best stuff that people give you, it's not.

From the heart. Yeah. It's not a physical thing. I mean, like, you have kids. Like, my favorite thing is when my daughter, like, draws me something and that's my card. That's my birthday card. Like, that goes way further than somebody just you know buying me something stupid that i'm going to forget about in three months or whatever you know 100

and it's from the heart you know that's the thing i think with people if you surround yourself with positive people and you want to make a positive impact um that's a really great thing and i think you like you do that and that's something that like in all your seminars and all your podcasts and everything, you present this positive image and it makes, it changes people's lives. Like you, you didn't know me from Adam and we crossed paths. And sometimes you wonder like, you know, why were we supposed to meet? You know what I mean? Just like, why did Caden run up to that, to that, you know, boy in high school?

Why were we supposed to meet? And I'd looked at it as like, you know, it's not a chance meeting. I mean, you can look at it that way, but I was supposed to be there. I met that young man. I helped, you know, guide him. We worked out. It was good for his mom to see him having a positive male influence. And she told me that again, you know, melted my heart made me feel good. And I think the more that we can do

that rather than it's it doesn't take that much more energy to be positive that more energy at all than it is to be negative might take you a little bit of time sometimes right you have to spend a few minutes with somebody or a little extra time here or there but um you know it's interesting because yeah you are like giving something to somebody you're not really expecting anything back but what you get back from it is you you get a tremendous amount from it you know and you're just not really maybe that's not like the main focus on the main reason you're just like oh if i because if you think about it a lot of times other people have helped you somewhere along the way you know i think a lot of times people want to think like, oh, I'm a self-made man or I did all

this stuff by myself and we want to think that we're tough and we're badass. But somebody let into your hand at some point. If you can just help somebody get just a little momentum in the right direction, I think it's a great thing. And I think I can't even think of a situation where it didn't come back and assist me in some way. Like, it always seems like it helps. I agree with you. And that's something that, like, going back to coaching kids in sports and making that positive, keeping them off the street.

And here they are playing, you know, sports or learning teamwork. And they're also learning that, that hey we work together for a sole purpose of focus and you're out there and you're coaching you're spending time with them and the other parents see that too they're like hey this you know deputy sheriff who has a family is out here coaching these kids and um spending time with them and these are things that you know as far as making a positive impact in our communities these are things that, you know, as far as making a positive impact in our communities, these are things that we should be doing. And, you know, I took pride in doing that. And, um, and that's why it's, like I said, I have a great deal of respect for where, where you are now and where you were. And the fact that you help people is incredible. You know, I'm curious to see why was it that

you encouraged him to go into fire instead? Because it seems like he, like, he's a great guy. He would have been someone, especially with somebody like you, who's been a cop, would have been someone who could have been a good cop. Why did you encourage him to go into fire instead? And then also, if someone does want to head into law enforcement these days with this climate, what do you think that they should keep in mind? Definitely, if you get offended very easily, do not go into law enforcement if you have thin skin do not go into law enforcement i mean you have to have a really good demeanor you can't be too high too low um it's it's not an easy job i mean it's not i mean some people can portray it a certain way you know i did that job it's not an easy job. I mean, it's not. I mean, some people can portray it a certain way. You know, I did that job.

It's not very easy. It takes a toll on you. But young people, that's a really good question. I have to give it some deep thought because you asked why I steered him towards fire. And it's a joke, but everyone says, you know know everybody loves a fireman you know what i mean when firemen fire and law enforcement have a really weird relationship we tease each other but we respect each other you know and it's it's it's almost like that brother that brother relationship where you you know you give them nuggies or whatever you fight with them but you're

still your brother so but everybody loves firemen i mean when firemen show up to the house it's like fantastic you know you're not you know what i mean thank you for being here you're saving babies you know and stuff it's it's a you know incredible position you know i mean so it's for me i like that young man and his mom his mom was went through a traumatic experience with her husband passing away. The last thing I wanted to do, like I would have felt horrible, and it's selfish reasons for me. I would have felt horrible had I directed, because she knew I was in law enforcement. She knew what happened to me. And she still wanted me to, you know, mentor her son.

And so here I am, and I'm like, well well let's steer him towards fire because law enforcement granted the odds are like one in a million and i couldn't have won the lottery right i had to give maddie why i'm taking a bullet but with him it was like he could maybe he would have made you know a great police officer but i didn't selfish reasons i didn't want to i didn't want if something was to happen to him and then I'd feel horrible that the mom lost her son and here and indirectly, you know, I steered him toward that profession. I mean, it still could happen in fire. I mean, firemen die and stuff like that. But I just, for me, it was that selfish reason. I didn't, I didn't want to put that on her. And as far as the young guys going through the academy

and things, I do talk to them and I tell them, right now you feel invincible, but I can tell you with a little 9mm piece of copper went into my chest and was burning in there, you're not invincible. I'm wearing the Superman shirt,

but you know what? Thank God for that vest. I wouldn't be here because that was direct placement. I was smoked. So not smoky, but anyway. But the big thing is, I think I would tell them is take it, do the job for the right reason. Don't go into it just for the paycheck. I mean, the paycheck's decent the benefits used to be fantastic they're they're not anymore um you're you're taking this job right now

that you're taking this job in this climate like you just pointed out that's really really hard on these young guys it's gonna it's gonna speed their process up. Their learning curve is going to be sped up so much because you're going to deal with a lot of unhappy people in a short period of time. And so you're either going to find a different job or you'll learn a way to adapt with it. But it's a stressful job. And hopefully they come from a place where they want to treat everybody fairly, you know? And that's the thing. Like my parents instilled that.

I watched how your mom and dad, you know, through the video, through the movies, how they raised you guys. My parents raised us, my, my, me and my brothers to treat people the way you want to be treated. And that was like, there was no, my dad was six to 240 pounds and there was no way you were going to cross, you were going to make sure you were respectful. And for me, it was yes, sir, yes, ma'am, the whole way. You know, I went to Catholic school, and then after Catholic school, I mean, it was these things that were instilled in us. And I think if more parents took an active role in their kids and kind of make sure, and this goes for law enforcement too, I think you go in there, be respectful. You know, meet somebody when you come across someone and they're upset, de-escalate it, bring it down.

Don't escalate a situation when you don't have to. And you need a lot of good, you need good teachers in the academy, you need good officers on the street, and you need good supervisors out there promoting that message. De-escalate things. But you also have to be ready, you know, if something does happen like what happened to me. You mentioned you've had like extra training as a police officer. But in just being a police officer without seeking out any extra training, do they teach you at all about, you know, how to handle, because you mentioned later on having all that stress. Do they teach you at all about how to kind of handle stress or how to kind of almost de-escalate yourself, like de-escalate a lot of the things that you,

you know, one day you're dealing with, you know, a car accident that's real horrific and the next day and so on. Is there any, like, is there any time or is there any teaching of like, hey, you know, we got to kind of clean out a lot of these thoughts and things like that? Very briefly. Very brief. It's in the police academy. They go over some um breathing techniques you kind

of get it once you get you get it once and then that's it and then you you kind of hope that that stays with you but it's very minuscule you know you're talking about a short block of period where you're you're under a lot of stress already because if you use if you screw up in the academy you're gone you're finding a new you know career because if you screw up in the academy, you're gone. You're finding a new career path. So to put that into perspective with somebody that we had on the show recently, at every 55 during the day, at 4.55, 5.55, 6.55, this person has in their phone to bring themselves down,

to calm themselves down, to be mindful, and they practice breathing. So for that person, that example might be a little excessive, but this is a person that just wants to succeed, just wants to be happy. He doesn't seem like he has anywhere near the stress that a police officer would have. So in what you're saying, getting that training just kind of a one-timer, we can just kind of see, like, that's just not nearly enough and that may be, you know, trying to interject a little bit more. Obviously, a police officer is not going to be able to implement, you know,

doing it every hour on the hour, but maybe once a week someone comes in and discusses it or a reminder, or maybe it's once a month. Is there some scenario that you can think of in your head where police officers could get extra training? Like, do they have time for that? And, you know, it seems complicated because, you know, if it pulls you off the street kind of, you know, because I've got to, well, not kind of, it pulls you off the street, I've got to train you.

So, you know, what was your experience like with some of that well you you do a lot of firearms training a lot of firearms training and then you have to qualify this is i'm gonna make this parallel you you have to qualify with your firearm in order to keep your job i mean if you're not a good shot and the likelihood of you using your gun i mean granted it happened for did happen for me but the likelihood of you using this there's some people who go 20 30 years of career and never had a you know shoot anybody there's a lot of people like that who've never you know used a weapon but you have to qualify all the time using your firearm like once a year or something like that yeah sometimes it was even it was even more than that you did have to qualify

is that is that common do you think it is it's commonplace so you have to be proficient in that because it's a perishable skill yeah so if you have to do that why not qualify psychologically why not if you're going to have that you're going to do this job and you're going to carry that responsibility, which is that 9mm or.40 caliber gun, and some of these guys have AR-15s or Joe Bonin would say AR-14. He's always on point. I had to throw that in there. Sorry. But anyway, why not have, if you're going to spend this time doing it

for firearm training and you're going to do that make it a mandatory thing every year that you have to pass that and then there's not the likelihood that you're going to you know you're not going to use your gun that often yeah what are you using you're using your brain you're using your brain and what do you use more often on every call? Your brain. So why not make that, hey, you know what? This is mandatory. Some guys are going to push back against it. But you know what? It's for the betterment of not only is it a betterment for you, but it's also the betterment of the people you're serving.

The community. The community doesn't feel safe. And that's it. That should help with your home life, too, because you're not bringing that work home and so forth. And it's a sick feeling for law enforcement guys who are like, man, we're out there risking our lives, and we got a lot of hate on us. And, well, let me see if people come together and we come up with a solution that could help, and the community likes it, why not back it? I mean, why are you pushing back against something that might be helpful? So, psychological, you should qualify psychologically.

I'm sorry to say that. I mean, I'm not sorry to say that. You should have to qualify psychologically. You deal with a lot of stressful stuff. There's incidents that I deal with that pop into my brain, you know, that on a daily basis that happen. And I'm like, you carry that with you, you know, and you better learn how to manage it. So, that's a great point. I mean, definitely qualifying that way, getting some help, definitely spending more time.

But, you know, absolutely make it a priority. How do you think the from generally, you know, you said you work with younger cops. How are they receiving on on the receiving end of the whole police reform ideas that are going on right now i know there are a lot of stuff that people are saying that are obviously super negative like there's this thing going around a cab yeah i have somebody i know that that is a friend um but she's putting that all over her stories all the time i'm just like i, I don't know, Mark, have you heard of ACAB? No, I have not.

All cops are bastards. And that's, that's like a big old sentiment that's going on right now on, on the side of people looking for police reform, which I just think is absolutely stupid. It's literally the stupidest thing I've ever heard. If you're listening, you know who you are. You're, I'm sorry. You're, you're, I'm sorry. You're really dumb.

But, um, yeah, sorry for using that word guys. That just pisses me off. But how do you feel on that? And, uh, how, how do cops feel about, you know, police reform? Do most of the guys that you're dealing with feel that it's something that they, uh, that that's good for, for them or are they kind of annoyed about it? This is a great topic because, um, the Taylor, for Roanoke Park Police, we had just finished working out. And we were out by our cars out in front of the sand gym.

And this black gentleman walks up, and he's in his late 20s or early 30s. He's a community leader, but he has a long history, criminal history in his background. And I didn't know any of that, but he saw the way we interacted in the gym, and he kind of knew I was law enforcement. But I didn't know he had that background, and I didn't know he was a community leader. But he comes out, and we start talking, and things started progressing, and he started talking about law enforcement and community issues. And we had a great conversation, conversation this is with the young man so this is my perspective right with a lot of experience this is a young man's perspective 25 years old brand new on the job and here's

someone who's he's been to prison he's he's had a rough life he's we're both caucian, he's black. And then here we're having this, you know, conversation and it's doing everybody good. And we're not, we're not a hundred percent, right. But we're being respectful. Like I don't understand from your perspective, but I'm listening to you and I respect that. And I, I haven't, I haven't seen my, I have seen friends get injured on the job, but he's actually seen family members get killed and by law enforcement. And we were like, why can't we get these community members, community leaders and law enforcement together to sit down and talk and see how we can kind of bridge that gap? Because there is a huge gap right now, right? So why can't we bridge that gap? Kind of have guys come together and go, look, this is what we, this is what, our goal is the same as your goal.

You guys want to, you want to be treated fairly. You want the community to be safe. You know, and that's what we want. We want the same thing but you have to respect each person's you know stance on that and maybe you know have a little compromise in between you know both sides maybe come in a little bit but when you have people spray painting a cab everywhere doesn't make me feel good doesn't make these young law enforcement officers it builds that divide and so i look at it this way.

Do you want things to keep going the same way? Is that what you want? Because that's what you're doing. By doing that, you're putting your message out there fantastic. That's how you feel, right? And I'm not saying you don't have a right to feel that way, but if you want things to get better in the community, how is that going to help?

How is that going to help? You know what I mean? Yeah. It's not.'s just going to that divide is going to stay there things are not going to change and people always talk about like we want changes good you know we want we want things to get better 100 100 yeah i think you just have to look at the different sides of of the story you know and you gotta you, try to gain some insight or gain some perspective on it. And I my son is 16 and he'll say certain things. And I'm like, just just make sure that that's true for you. That's all you can say, whatever you want, you know, but just make sure that you really believe in that, you know, because he'll ask questions or say something. And I'll say, you know what, you should.

That's that I understand your opinion. You're entitled to it. You don't have to think like I think. But I sometimes will tell him, I'll say, hey, you should probably look that up. Or you should look up this other thing because this is the other of split the difference between, you know, what you originally believed with, and then you factor in some new facts, right? A lot of times people don't want to take time to do that. And they just, they get outraged. They get upset.

They get fired up. And I think sometimes, well, it's understandable. It's understandable for us. We're humans. We're fallible. We're going to be emotional at times. But if you can start to if you can start to get gain some insight as to like, why does that happen? Or why does that continue to happen? Why is that like that? Is it tradition? Is it something people are being forced into? Like, what is the situation? How do I learn more about it? What's knowable about a topic? And then once you start to gather some of those facts, then I think it's important at that point that you start to communicate with other people how you feel about it.

You had a key word in that, was facts. As long as you base your feelings or your opinion on facts, factual information, I have no problems with that. If you come to me and you say, hey, this is a fact, and this is why I feel this way, I can respect that. If you feel a certain way, like the person you were talking about that had the ACAB on there, they feel a certain way, and they're putting it out there. But is it really based on a lot of factual information? And if so, explain it to me in a civil manner. And let me see. Use the word all.

So, you know, let's have you try to explain that. Seventy-seven thousand law enforcement officers in the U.S. Seventy-seven thousand. It already seems kind of flawed once you use an absolute. Seventy-seven thousand. You talk about the calls for service. They said there's 3 to 5 million calls for service that we handle. And then because we're humans and there are some knuckleheads out there, those things are going to happen.

But 99% of the law enforcement are good people. They just want to do their job, protect their community, and go home to their families. And so I think one thing what I would like to see, and this is, I think if we had the community leaders in the black community come to, say, maybe an academy class and have somebody,

I mean, yourself, you're very intelligent, you're articulate, and I know when people use that word, they throw, oh, there's something behind're very intelligent, you're articulate. And I know when people use that word, they throw, oh, there's something behind it. No, there's not. You can communicate. And I think what would be great is to hear from your perspective. When I get pulled over, my heart rate races. And there's a reason why I feel that way. And there's a reason why my community feels that way. And here are the reasons why. And then these young guys coming on board could understand from the black community that, hey, what can we do to bring that down?

What can we do to de-escalate that situation? When you get pulled over, man, maybe it's my taillight or something, or this officer is not going to try and go through my car and look for something. Wouldn't that be awesome, right? So why not get community leaders come into the, black community leaders come into the police academy and talk to these young officers and explain to them, hey, this is why we feel this way. We feel horrible when we get pulled over, our heart rate's racing, and we're not sure if we're going to make it out of this traffic stop you know and even and i know sometimes they you know you'll see a depiction in a in a viral video where you know things happen like that and it's like that there's millions of traffic stops and millions of times where things don't go wrong they go they go you won't you won't hear

about that but you will hear about the things that did go wrong. But why not find a way to fix it to kind of get this new generation coming in, young guys like Taylor, these young academy graduates that are coming in, and teach them. Go listen. Do you want to have this discord? Do you want to have this gap you know, gap that's out there or do you, or do you want to be able to, you know, walk through the community and people respect you and you respect them and you pull somebody over and their, and their heart rate isn't racing, you know what I mean? And they're not fearful, you know, why, how, how difficult is that? I think that's one of the, that would be a great idea. You know, it is really weird though.. I think I mentioned this when another officer was here and we were on the podcast.

With all the videos that we're seeing in terms of police brutality, even myself, I know that a majority of cops are not like that. I understand that. I'm not one of those. I don't believe that a majority of cops are bad or doing what some of these individuals are doing. But seeing that does, even though I know I shouldn't necessarily be afraid because I know how to handle myself in those situations, it does make me more afraid. So when I see a cop behind me on the street, I'm just, I start to just be like, oh shit. Like it does start to freak me out a little bit, even though it is actually kind of irrational for me to feel that way.

So it's just, if, if, if I'm coming that from that, from a rational point of view, where I know all cops aren't like that, the individuals that are having negative sentiments towards police, seeing that, that's just of it, meeting with community leaders, learning how, you know, when you're coming up on a patrol stop on something where you've got your probable cause and you address that person respectfully. And again, 99.9% of them do. And every once in a while that call number 15 where that person says something and you flip that switch, it's a difficult position. But I know from my perspective, I definitely don't want that person says something and you flip that switch, it's a difficult position. But I know from my perspective, I definitely don't want that person feeling that way. I'd rather you be calm and like, hey, officer, why do you, you know. And when I show up, you know, Deputy Frank, this is the reason why I stopped you,

whether or whatever. And then, you know, you communicate. And for me, and I can tell you this from tons of traffic stops, you were respectful to me. Have a good day. You know, slow it down, you know, get that taillight fixed, whatever. Have a good day. So we both need to come from a position of where, you know, you don't want to have that fear. You don't want that escalation.

And, you know, cops need to do a better job in the community. Hustle needs to help us out, too. It has to be both coming together. Where can people find out more about your bicep board? I have to give it a try. It's bicepboard.com and at bicepboard on Instagram. I want to be part of a bicepboard. Right?

You got to grow a little bit more. Yeah, you got to have like 22-inch guns for that. Yeah, I got to get those peaks going. So that's the thing is it definitely works the peak, puts that tension on the peak. Some people say all genetic genetics. Well, you know, you can also find things that you can develop that peak. You can get that bicepboard, and you can hit that peak a little bit harder.

You put a little dumbbell in between there or you can go ahead and hit your triceps. It's a multi-use board. That's cool. Is it available yet or not just yet? We are going to be making it available. That's my business partner, Pete with his giant guns. And,

um, you know, we worked on it together and this is the, um, one of the finished products. And so right now we're, we came out with the board. We're,

um, working on production right now. Yeah. I'm excited to give it a try. Thank you. It's great working out with you today. Thank you so much for all your insight. Really appreciate it.

If you want people to follow along with anything that you're doing, where can people follow you? At bicepboard.com on Instagram would be great. This is something we're starting to, new business, young, trying to make follow in slingshots and the Mark Bell's footsteps. You blazed the trail and we're trying to follow in that follow in slingshots and the mark bells footsteps so you blaze the trail and we're trying to you know following that and get things going awesome again thank you for your time really appreciate it andrew take us on out of here buddy thank you martin yeah thank you so much man uh you answered a lot of good questions and it was just great seeing your your uh your rational approach to everything somebody that got i mean

point blank range shot right in the chest you would think i mean you have all of the uh reasons to be extremely bitter and you're not and i think that's really huge and important and i think it was amazing the way you shared everything that you did with us today so thank you so much man i really appreciate it well i appreciate the opportunity to be here i mean and thank you for that i'm recognizing that. Because believe it or not, that actually goes into my, sticks in my head. I'm like, okay, why aren't you upset at, you know, when you see somebody, let's say a Hispanic nature, that person, you know, I have so many Hispanic friends. And I love being with them.

And I don't, you know, know that you know our your brain has to function a certain way you know what i mean and it's like why for me it's just about you know i want to enjoy life i want to surround myself with positive people i don't want to waste time being negative you know i i almost lost my life and i and that made me you know just eyes wide open and said hey you know what tomorrow's not promised so you know, just eyes wide open and said, hey, you know what? Tomorrow's not promised. So, you know, let's live every day to the fullest and have a positive attitude. And that's something that, you know, that's my mantra.

So that's something that I stick with. Thank you. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you, everybody, for checking out today's episode. If you like it, please reach out to us on Instagram at MB Power Project or on Twitter at MB. Sorry, at Mark Bell's Power Project on Instagram at MB Power Project on Twitter. My bad.

My Instagram is at I am Andrew Z. And Seema, where are you at? I'm Seema Yen Yang on Instagram and YouTube. I'm Seema Yen Yang on TikTok and Twitter. Mark? At Mark Smiley Bell. Strength is never a weakness. Weakness is never strength.

Catch you all later.