Mark Bell's Power Project - EP. 444 - Regenerative Ag Explained ft. Anya Fernald

Episode Date: November 9, 2020

Anya Fernald is a former cheese maker turned regenerative farmer. Anya is the co-founder of Belcampo, a company centered around creating meat that is good for the planet, good for our bodies, and safe for the animals. Anya started the company as a single mother who was just looking for a way to feed her family, and is now a 27k acre farm with it’s own FDA-approved processing facility, full-service butcher, and restaurants. Subscribe to the Podcast on on Platforms! ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast Special perks for our listeners below! ➢LMNT Electrolytes: https://drinklmnt.com/powerproject Purchase 3 boxes and receive one free, plus free shipping! No code required! ➢Freeze Sleeve: https://freezesleeve.com/ Use Code "POWER25" for 25% off plus FREE Shipping on all domestic orders! ➢Piedmontese Beef: https://www.piedmontese.com/ Use Code "POWERPROJECT" at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $99 ➢Sling Shot: https://markbellslingshot.com/ Enter Discount code, "POWERPROJECT" at checkout and receive 15% off all Sling Shots Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ https://www.facebook.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/mbpowerproject ➢ LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/powerproject/ ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject ➢TikTok: http://bit.ly/pptiktok FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell ➢Mark Bell's Daily Workouts, Nutrition and More: https://www.markbell.com/ Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/ Podcast Produced by Andrew Zaragoza ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamandrewz #PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast. This episode of the podcast is brought to you by Element Electrolytes. You know, the cool thing is that Mark told me about Element last year. He told me how he was using it before workouts, and he does a lot of workouts fasted too, so he suggested it to me. And in the past, because I do a lot of lifting, a lot of performance stuff outside the gym, I thought towards the end of a workout when I'd cramp, it's kind of normal. Maybe I wasn't adequately hydrated, I didn't have adequate nutrition, so I'd just drink workout when I'd cramp, it's kind of normal. Maybe I didn't wasn't adequately hydrated.

I didn't have adequate nutrition. So I just drink more water, eat more food, hope everything was OK. And cramping was normal. After I started grabbing Element, I started using the electrolytes and they have thousand milligrams of sodium, 200 potassium, 60 magnesium, all the electrolytes you need. I'd use them pre-workout, fasted. And I s*** you not. I don't cramp up anymore it's crazy and it's like the workouts all go really well even though I don't have food in my system it's really really crazy the cool

thing about element is that they have a lot of great flavors my personal favorite is raspberry and you can just put a packet in water drink it do your workout it's easy it's simple it's it's just, it works. Okay. So make sure that you're not just drinking a lot of water to get yourself hydrated. You're getting enough electrolytes in your system before you train. It will make a massive difference to your performance. Yes. You guys got to take your workouts to the next level by picking up some element electrolytes right now, head over to drinklmnt.com slash powerproject. Make sure you guys check out the bundles

because when you buy three, you essentially get one free. Getting that Element in there. I haven't tried the Element and the protein. Combo? Combo and the coffee. I've tried the Element and protein,

which is really good. I've tried the Element and protein, but not with coffee, so I'm excited for this. Hey now. Yes. We're good to go. Yes, yes, but not with coffee, so I'm excited for this. Hey, now. Yes. We're good to go. Yes, yes, yes.

All right, so Encima made a concoction over here. Oh, yeah. Concoction? Mm-hmm. He's got coffee. He's got some Dutch Bros coffee. I'm going to add some Dutch Bros to it. He's got some Slingshot protein in there.

Yep. And he's got some Element. Chocolate salt. Chocolate salt. Yep. And he's got some element. Chocolate salt. Chocolate salt element. I'm still surprised at how much flavor that little packet has. And he only did like half. So that's even better.

Yeah, that's why I usually recommend to people just try half of the chocolate packet in some protein. That's just pretty damn good. Or in protein and coffee like in Simit. For all the listeners. I was going to say, people listening in their car love that. Cringing.

We're going to talk about cow farts today. Yay. Yeah, get to the bottom of this whole thing. Talk about regenerative agriculture with Anya Fernal, who is a she's a bunch of stuff. She's formerly a chef. I don't know if she could she'd call herself a chef, but I don't know the qualifications of that for that. If you have to go to school or whatever, but I know she went overseas and has been baking

and cooking and doing all kinds of stuff for a while. And then she also owns is a part owner of Belcampo, which is a regenerative agriculture farming facility. And I'm excited to talk to her about it because I don't really understand how it works, but it leaves a positive footprint on the planet rather than a negative. And so it'd be great to be great to like hear more about that. Like, what does that mean? I have an idea of what it means. I believe it means that they're grass fed and they're grass finished. But it's to my belief that all cows are grass fed.

That's my understanding. But then I think they feed them corn for a large part of their life as well. They try to get them bigger and make them fatter. And that has a negative impact on the cow's stomachs. And because of the negative impact it has on their stomachs, it leads to more gases. But also, I think there's some other things at play here. I think that they do stuff to the land and they have the cattle go on certain parts of the land. And I think they kind of do so in kind of a formation. And by the time they get back to a particular chunk of land,

I think they're, you know, taking a crap on it and eating on that land and so forth. And then they move on and they go to the next spot. And so the cows, and my understanding too is, and she might have a totally different perspective. I believe it's pretty hands off. I think the cows just kind of they kind of run the farm themselves. I think once you once you get it going, I'm sure it's probably really hard to figure out how to get the whole thing started. My understanding is once you get it going.

That the cows will take care of the rest. Yeah. One I'm wondering is like because environmentalists, whenever they talk about farming and the meat industry, care of the rest. Yeah. One I'm wondering is like, because environmentalists, whenever they talk about farming and the meat industry, it's always said that it's going to do something negative to the environment. They're always talking about the longterm negative effects of eating meat and farming cows, et cetera.

And I wonder if I'm curious, cause like she's probably heard that, like if this is the solution to that problem. Yeah. Like I remember you were mentioning yesterday how this could actually be something that helps the environment rather than actually hurting the environment so that'd be pretty cool to dig into that because i know nothing like literally zero about it and it seems like that's usually not usually but you know for vegans and vegetarians

that are so pro not you know eating animals it's like oh it's bad for the environment yeah maybe it's not well also too we we're we're already there you know so people animals, it's like, oh, it's bad for the environment. Yeah. Maybe it's not. Well, also, too, we're already there, you know, so people will say, oh, we need, like, a vegetarian, you know, diet, or we need a, but we already eat, like, 80% vegetables, because everything in the grocery store has some sort of vegetable in it, or, sorry, plant, has some sort of plant in it. You're talking about we. Do you mean, mean like the general population or us um gen pop i guess i mean america probably america okay yeah yeah maybe i'm not so

sure about everybody else but sugar is a plant yeah yeah you know and then and then vegetable oils that's what i was gonna ask if you're counting that yeah yeah so like i think it's what 80 of the stuff in the grocery store, you just wouldn't have hardly any food in a grocery store if it was, if it was actually whole foods, there wouldn't be much in there, you know? Um,

so yeah, I just find it all interesting. It's actually like a lot of stuff too. Like, um, I'm not on one side or another, you know, and I kind of hate some of this stuff sometimes.

Like I, I don't consider myself a Republican. I don't consider myself a Republican. I don't consider myself a Democrat. I'm probably like a lot of I'm probably like millions of other Americans where, you know, I've selected a certain person or selected a certain thing. But then, unfortunately, the times that we're in, people kind of think that means X, Y and Z about you. And I don't agree with all the different policies and all the different things. But even when it comes to like, I do like eating meat, but I don't hate people that eat vegetables. I don't have any, you know, I don't, I don't think that it's the best way to try to build the best

physique. So when people ask me about it from that perspective, I just usually say, I think there's better, more convenient ways. I'm also not going to try to change your beliefs however i do think it's good that you research stuff because um cows versus soybeans i mean you'd have to really weigh out you know there's a lot of there's a lot of negative talk about uh the farming uh processes of soybeans and other things like coffee. I don't know what the practices are, but these, these things, they, they take over massive, massive amounts of land. And they also pull resources from what we do. So they're not necessarily any,

they're not things that aren't harming anything. And when you have even like a garden, a lot of people that have gardens that I know that are gun owners, they shoot squirrels, they shoot raccoons, they shoot shit that ends up right. Even even somebody that's kind of more on the side of like, hey, well, I'll eat some eggs here and there. People that have chickens, they raise their own chickens. They kill coyotes because coyotes kill their chickens. You know what I mean? Like there's always some something's getting harmed and if you have a massive field of uh

of soy or whatever the hell it is um you're probably killing a lot of other animals or taking their land to put your crops there i mean this is kind of this happens with people we remove people to get land that has uh. We remove animals, right? Like we just take over. We make borders and boundaries and walls and all kinds of stuff. And it just, the thing just repeats itself. So they're not really, if you really actually are to really think about a lot of this stuff, a lot of it doesn't, it doesn't appear that there's one morally better way than another.

But again, I'm not here to try to change your beliefs that you believe what you want to believe in. You said that maybe it may not be best or optimally for a physique, but what about just overall health? I've never really heard you mention your thoughts on just for general being healthy. I think the good thing about vegetables is that they prevent you from eating meat. So I am in recognition of that. You could eat too much meat, but I would also just say when I say too much, I just mean an abundance of calories,

abundance of energy, and also trying to keep in mind that people have a more regular style diet. You know, the person that we're talking about eating too much meat, I wouldn't be concerned if it was somebody that primarily ate meat. Like if it was like Ron Penna or something, or it's a Dr.

Baker, I wouldn't really have a concern with them where I'd have a concern is somebody that does like a keto diet or somebody does a carnivore diet, but then they also like cheat pretty frequently. They overeat pretty frequently. They make some bad, you know, they make some bad choices maybe more frequently than necessary. And then also just our general population. Our general population can really do really well having a protein shake every single day and having a big salad every single day so that has a reasonable dressing on it.

So that they can ensure that they have like two decent meals every day, along with having like a steak. And that would be three, you know, that would be three good meals in a day and are not meals really, but three different times of eating for a particular day. But yeah, I don't, I don't think vegetables are, are, are bad. I think that a lot of, if you look at people that live really long they're usually really really small people that are really really super duper small usually don't eat that much protein but you know i don't want to go through my life small i want to go through

my life jacked so i need more protein maybe 100 years old and jacked but i mean we've said this before and you've said this before on the podcast i mean comparing a vegan diet or vegetarian diet to the standard american diet that's way better for health absolutely you know like you can't debate that like if someone's doing that okay yeah they're going to be healthy will they be the strongest athlete potentially not will they be the biggest athlete potentially not so i mean if you care about that you might want to take another route maybe yeah and if you really care about it you might find a different route like you might find a slight you know alteration you might you might be able to make room for different types of protein powder or something like that and you can still there's people that are i look awesome that no

there are a lot of bodybuilders yeah there's like one guy who like i think has won the olympia a couple times right which olympia um i think it's physique i think maybe really npc physique olympia i think so oh wow a little google search i forget what the dude's name is he's uh um he's got a name that's kind of hard to pronounce yeah but anyway i mean there's there's there's handful there's a handful of guys that compete on a high level that you know look awesome i think that in terms of like how long we live i i think i think that the vegetables just don't have a lot of calories so i actually think that that's a plus like if you can chew on something that doesn't have a lot

of calories and uh it can prevent you it can assist and prevent you first of all it doesn't have a lot of calories and uh it can prevent you it can assist and prevent you first of all it doesn't have a lot of calories but it also has fiber in it so if we can assist you to not eat not overeat then we're we're on the damn right track i think um people talk about uh autophagy and things like that autophagy the the kind of regeneration of new cells, those kinds of things don't only happen from fasting. They also happen from not eating an abundance of calories. So I think it's really useful. I mean, again, just think about people that are in your life that you know that are old and, you know, some of the oldest people that you run into, they're very, very small. You know, some of the oldest people that you run into, they're very, very small.

I mean, my grandma's a tiny lady. Yeah, right. Such a small lady. Yeah. She's like this tall. Yeah, you got to be. Yeah, you got to be. You got to be little.

She said she's 98 or something. She's 98. Oh, yeah. She's just walking around this tall. Right. Well, and for her, she probably even maybe when she was younger because she's smaller, she probably just has a tough time eating a lot. Yeah. I actually, I've mentioned this before on the show, too. I think that men die earlier than women because I just think that we eat more.

I think that, like, eating and dying, I think, are somehow weirdly in some way connected. I don't know. But you know what, man? I just have this, I have this, like, strange resistance to that idea idea that like, I mean, yeah, we're all going to die. But like, I feel like if we keep active like we are right, you know, and we keep our body feeling pretty good. And like, yeah, as you get older, your bones and stuff, you're gonna feel a little creaky. But I feel like we do that. We can live a pretty damn long time. I think we can get into our 80s and 90s pretty successfully. But maybe that's maybe me. No, you're right. I know what you're saying. It's about living.

It's not about dying. Yeah. Because if you if you could live to be 90 and you had to compromise a bunch of things that you like to do, that kind of sucks. I'd rather be out by 80. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.

yeah you know what i mean so yeah yeah a google search doesn't pull anything up on any like vegan bodybuilder winning a a major um event uh one that just randomly popped up was mr america in 2014 by barney dupliss there's a guy with a not not not something and then i don't know how to say his name i'll butcher it and somebody in 74 who claimed they were vegan on masters but i know there there there are a few uh pretty high level um like competitors that do that i don't know about maybe he won a vegan show i don't know if they're an npc but i know there there's someone like those uh show i mean i don't know if they're an npc but i know there there's someone like those uh those natty organizations yeah with this dude's name so yeah i can't find it i mean again same guy mr universe in 2014 somebody's yelling at the podcast right now saying that there's somebody out there well if you know him comment let us i've tried to get him on the show before, but he thought I was going to be mean to him and stuff.

We're not mean to vegans. I remember that. We love you guys. Shit, I can't remember that. No, I'm like, dude, I want to find out more. Give you props. Move the Dutch girl. He's been doing it for a while.

I think he kind of started out that way. That's right. You can see yourself now. My bad. Just chill like that. Okay. Anya's coming in soon. Just keep it there. It's Anya.

There she is. Hey. Hey, great to have you on the show today. Appreciate you coming on. Appreciate your time. Thank you for having me, guys. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, let's just you for having me, guys. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, let's just dive right into some of this. I know that you have a history of cooking and you cooked overseas and stuff like that.

And now you're owner of this farm and you guys use what's called regenerative agriculture. We here on this podcast don't know much about it. And I don't think our fans know much about it either. So I'd love to learn more about it. I know that a lot of people have concerns about eating meat and their overall health and then also the health of the planet. And so maybe you can explain a little bit of what regenerative agriculture is. Well, first off, I'm actually at our firm. So right out the window here, I'm looking out at Regenerative Pastures. We're up in far northern California on the border of Oregon. So broadly, regenerative agriculture conceptually, I'd say for people in the fitness industry,

a way that I might think about it is kind of like analogous to how one might take care of one's body. So if you were heading into a super brutal week, Mark, and you're like, okay, I gotta, I gotta really crush it. And you tell your, your friend, I'm going to drink a ton of coffee. I'm going to take a bunch of these crazy pills. I'm not going to sleep. And then I'm going to get it all done. And you're, or you might say, I'm going to book, like book a lot of long nights of sleep. Now I'm going to eat really good. I'm going to keep my workouts going all week long. Right. So which one is your friend going to recommend? Right. The one that's like the ladder where you end up a human. And that's kind of the difference in the

style of agriculture. If you're thinking about agriculture in a short term mentality, you're like, okay, how many tomatoes can I get out of this right now in the next season, the next two seasons, as opposed to thinking, what's this pasture going to look like in 30 years? And the question might be who cares, right? I mean, who cares? Because fundamentally, tomatoes are great. There's a lot of land on earth. There's a lot of water on earth, right? So there's ways that we could probably make this work. And the issues are really around carbon sequestration, fundamental issue. So carbon leaves the soil and leaves the earth when soils are disrupted, right. And

tilled. And when you till, you actually break this dense network of micro and macro root systems below the earth. It's kind of similar, like in human health to a microbiome, right? So, you know, like you don't get the flu and you've got that great microbiome and your gut's in great shape and you do get things when you've been eating bad and traveling and not doing the right things and your microbiome gets out of whack. So it's really similar in ag. So when you actually keep this healthy microbiome in the soil, these healthy roots, rhizomes, this massive bacterial culture, et cetera, in the soil, you're going to end up with a better carbon sequestering land. you're going to end up with a better carbon sequestering land.

And the other piece of it is farms like ours and regenerative, we don't till the land. So we don't cut it. We don't break the earth. And that also increases the amount of carbon that's held because there's actually these root systems aren't broken. The way carbon actually ends up physically in the land is that every single root has tons and tons of little teeny nodes and those deposit carbon in the land is that every single root has tons and tons of little teeny nodes and those deposit carbon in the earth. So you want to keep big, healthy root systems intact to keep carbon in the soil. And that's what regenerative focuses on.

And what's the difference between that and just cows that eat corn? Well, the cows that eat corn, there's a lot of layers so piece one is regenerative how we form the pastures right and that also presumes that cows are eating grass right corn is a maladaptive food for cows and what that means is that it's not the diet that they evolved to eat you and me we're monogastrics we We have one intestinal tract. We were designed, we evolved eating nutrient-dense foods. Other animals that are like us are pigs, chickens, monkeys, right? Those are monogastrics. Ruminants, lamb, deer, elk.

These are animals that evolved with a lot of stomachs that were designed to process like the food that the predators like us left behind okay it's really low value food if you and i were to eat grass for a week we would be in the hospital yeah okay so the cows are different though they've got these five stomachs they take this super crummy low nutrient density food tons of fiber and they process it slowly through these five stomachs. And they can turn it into super high quality protein, which is magic, right? But when you feed them that diet, they grow naturally. They're eating a natural diet and they grow, they put on musculature and fat in a natural kind of timeframe.

In modern ag, we want things to go faster. We want more fat. We want it to be plumper. We want things to move quicker. So if you put them on a really, it's the same thing. Think about it. If you or me were like, okay, I'm going to eat, you know, greens from my garden and healthy proteins and occasional whole grains, or I'm going to eat just Fritos.

What would help us bulk up or just put on mass? Fritos. So when you're trying to make cows gain a lot of weight fast, just feed them a bunch of corn. And there's a couple of things that happen. One is it's super nutrient dense. Okay. And then the other thing is totally inflammatory for the animals because they don't have the right stomachs for it. So they actually, it's kind of a thing you can Google it's it's, it's a little bit gross,

but if you look inside the stomachs of these cows that are on corn, they're black and slick. Whereas a grass fed stomach, it's a little bit gross, but if you look inside the stomachs of these cows that are on corn, they're black and slick. Whereas a grass-fed stomach, it looks like a compost bottle. It kind of smells not nice unless you're in my industry, but it smells pretty good. It smells like compost. So they're actually pretty sick. That's why there's so much E. coli in those factory farms because of the animals. E. coli makes cows sick too. So they get it when they're super, super stressed out and not eating the right food. They get E. coli makes cows sick too. So they get it when they're super, super stressed out and not eating the right food. They get E. coli and salmonella, listeria, all those bacteria really proliferate. And so it's not regenerative in terms of the food stuff.

So if you ask why is corn-fed beef not regenerative, it's because that corn is not farmed regeneratively. Then broadly, why is corn-fed beef not so great? It's because it's the that corn is not farmed regeneratively then broadly why is corn fat beef not so great it's because it's the wrong diet for cows they don't thrive on it they gain weight very quickly which some people confuse with thriving but it's the same thing when you see like an obese 13 year old do you say that kid's thriving right no so you can't just conflate rapid early weight gain with health when you compare regenerative farming to what what most i guess farms do um a lot of people are concerned about normal farming because of like what it does in the environment etc and you were talking about in terms of regenerative farming you have to think about this in the

long-term perspective not what's my game going to be a few years from now? What's it going to be 30 years from now? So when you moved into that, what exactly were you thinking about? Like, because I'm assuming I have no idea, but from a business perspective and making money perspective, are you at a disadvantage doing this? But in the long term, like, is that or no? of disadvantage doing this, but in the longterm, like, is that, or, or no? Yeah. I mean, that's a great question. And early on, I wasn't as radical about it as I am now. Um, when I started the company, I wasn't like, Oh, I have to be a hundred percent organic. I have to be, you know, I was looking, I was more open to doing maybe like barley finish for beef. And then the more that I learned, the more radical I got. And it was actually motivated

really by wellness. And that's because I started doing tests on the meat, omega-3 to omega-6 ratios. And it was just really clear when we gave the animals any type of grain, their omega-6s went through the roof. And so it's kind of like, I wanted to create a product that was optimally supporting human wellness, animal wellness and supportive human wellness. And so to do that, it's like, it's really clear when you get the animals inflamed, the meat that they produce is more inflammatory. Omega six is our inflammatory for humans. So it was kind of a guideline. Like part of it, I wasn't such a planet or tree hugger that I'm like, Oh,

Uber all is we actually, everything's gotta be about carbon. Cause I also think, you know, fundamentally I'm selling meat. And I don't think that many people are like, Oh, I'm going to buy this thing because it's low carbon. And I'm, it's like, no, I'm going to buy this thing because it's delicious and it's a cool cut and smells great. And I look great when I serve it to my friends, you know, like there's a bunch of other reasons. You don't just do it for the environmentalism. So I wanted to check all those boxes, but really what I was, was amazing to me was that the slow growing product tasted way better, but also just had much, much better nutritional profile and also higher density

of protein. So, you know, things like our eggs to have something like three times the protein of a conventional egg, but the same calories, right? So it's like, it's crazy to me that you think, I mean, people get freaked out by how much more good quality meat and eggs and stuff costs. It's like, but you get way more protein. You know, you actually get, it's a healthier product. You get more bang for your buck and you get a greater result from that caloric intake. You guys are obviously probably less concerned about how many calories you probably struggle for you to eat enough calories with how much you work out. But for many people, it's like, okay, I'd rather like keep my calories under a certain threshold. So I'd rather eat more nutritionally dense food where I get, I get more value for my caloric

intake. Right. So that was all interesting for me to kind of, and it was the first couple of years, it sort of started to unfold that I was learning because I was setting myself off to get tested. And I couldn't believe it. You know, a lot of my competitors, I would come back with like a one to 30, um, a mega three to mega six ratio. So that's pure corn. Um, I also found that many people were lying like I would test meats that were listed as grass fed and finished and find it had this crazy omega three to mega six ratio. And then in our meats, we did some barley finishing and it immediately went from like a one to one

ratio to a one to 15 ratio with two weeks, three weeks on barley. So I couldn't really conscionably make that trade off. But the question you raised initially was just, this is a massively more expensive proposition. And that's the challenge I face every day, which is I am producing a product that costs two to five times that I don't know the exact ins and outs of conventional, but it's somewhere like two to five, three to five times, but I can pretty much only charge like 30% more for it. Right. So there's the squeeze is that operations like ours, um, we really are, we were challenged to do more things with the beef so the way that i recoup that

is i do things like bone broth so i sell every single part at a premium right so there's ways that i carve margin out of the animal despite it being more expensive a second ago you had mentioned the differences between the stomachs of a grass-fed and corn-fed cow like you can actually see it uh the difference but in some of the uh the corn fed cows you actually literally can see it with one of those like port things that's like really disgusting does does anything like that ever happen with a grass-fed cow or is that something that only happens to corn fed because it is not their diet or not it shouldn't be a part of their diet i should say you know you you just see i see this sort of fetishization in american culture like more in the culinary culture but people like talking about these big super marbled steaks right you speak over instagram like oh my god like that's like

so incredible look what i'm throwing on the grill and i see that and i say that's just inflammation. You know, I see that and I see like a sick, a sick mammal, you know, I see a sick, inflamed, diseased flesh. So I have a really different lens on it, but you're absolutely right there that there's, there's those cameras where you can peek into the animal. And those are typically, I mean, the thing you should know too, guys, is that that particular one that I'm aware of is at Davis, which is, you know, it's a great university here in California, but it's absolutely beholden to the corn fed industry. I mean, the amount of vested interests. There's tons of research out there showing that corn fed animals are absolutely terrific for the environment. And you look at where they're from.

It's like Oklahoma State. It's like, well, who's paying the bills there? You know, so unfortunately, we don't have I i mean and keep in mind my sector the market i mean i'm like a big player in grass fed and i'm nothing i'm infinitely tiny our slaughterhouse on a big day we have our farm we have our own slaughterhouse we'll kill like 40 beef in a big day a normal large size slaughterhouse is 600 beef an hour. Oh, Jesus. Okay. So the order of magnitude. So there's just not that much research. That's why I'm like out

there sending samples to the lab and like, because at USDA, and it's not necessarily like a, I don't even think it's as much of a conspiracy that they're not serving the grass fed industry. It's just that they're serving the agriculture industry in the US and 99% of the agriculture industry is doing things in a certain way. They're going to focus most of their research around that so there's not a lot about it so i have sort of like the thing about the rumens being black i actually learned from my from my grad student who is working in the conventional industry who's like oh these look so different than what i've been seeing where they're black and they smell foul and um when you when he came to our plan he's like it smells great when you open because when

you actually slaughter you you check the inside of the room and so you open it up. So he was there for that and mentioned that. So I'm learning things as I go, but there's not like a lot of literature about the alternative industry right now. You're basically saying your shit don't stink, right? Exactly. Exactly. We can talk about manure and emissions too. Give us some of your background. What gave you confidence to run a farm? It seems like it'd be so difficult to try to figure out.

Yeah, I think it's one of these challenges that you don't realize until you've gotten into it, how hard it's going to be. You say, Oh fuck, what did I get myself into every day? I mean, now we're a big enough company that we have. I mean, it's also hard for me.

I'm a youngish woman. Um, I'm not from an agricultural family. Um, I have sort of radical ideas about health and nutrition. I'm really into fitness and wellness. Do you get this a lot? Do people say, can i speak to the owner like is the owner here you're like it's me like no no like we're like a cat kidding around where's the owner

the people who really came up with this i'm like no well that's um that that's been interesting you know they it's really the comfort for me, is that what I'm doing is something that small landholders have done for centuries. You know, I'm not like inventing. And that's one thing that like in COVID has been sort of a sense of like the grace of God for me to wake up every day and be like, well, at least I'm just selling meat. Like, I'm pretty sure that's not going anywhere. Right. So a lot of what my practices and my work have been, has been about uncovering the old way of doing things and bringing that back with some tweaks and some changes, you know, and then it's also, we've, we've, it's been, we're eight years in. Okay. And this brand was always conceived of as something that would be a very long-term play, you know, this product, like it's a long-term, it's like sort of a legacy project. And we're not like, oh, I'm going to make a natural granola bar out of a bunch of

organic things that you can buy in that, you know, like a lot of these kind of like world-changing natural brands are fundamentally just buying the same stuff and putting in a really cool new formulation, which is great. There's a, there's a, there's no, no disrespect to that whole pathway, but our whole vision, and this is myself and my business partner have been to really have this longer term approach. And so the early days of this though, I can tell you just guys for giggles, some of the idiotic mistakes that I've made. I mean, I had the first USDA certified free range organic rabbit program because I thought it was, you know, rabbits are super efficient protein. And where I am here, you can see out the window.

It's like it's extremely remote area in Northern California. And we're right on the edge of the Trinity Alps. So you put a bunch of rabbits, which have like zero evolutionary instinct like dumb animals and you put them out in a pasture with like a tiny little electric fence around them and then there's mountain lions and golden eagles and it was just like the smorgasbord every night of animals just coming and predating and i was like giving myself gold stars you're like oh i you know did the first regenerative like free range organic rabbit program and then we'd have you know it was it was inhumane we had like 75 mortality because these poor rabbits like just you can't do that

at the base of the trendy alps obviously so listen my naivete definitely brought me some early punches and fortunately now i have enough of a team around me that's done it. I mean, the guy who actually runs our farming operations, a fifth generation California rancher. And he is like, this is the future. Because his whole family operation has struggled with differentiation, right? Like trying to find a way to get people to pay more for the right quality product. And what we've done well is that we've differentiated, we've told our story well. So that's really where I've been able to lean in and then fortunately i brought in people but early on some of the the stuff that we did we're just trying to go for a purely values um play and purely like kind of amazing tasting product great for your body great for the environment we were definitely

the laughing stock um for a couple years you, I'm really curious about this because I think it'll help a lot of people if you can help us break this down and understand it. When a lot of people go into the store and they look at meats, you mentioned like the marbling, right? And they'll see a really high fat kind of steak that's maybe not that expensive. And they'll be like, okay, that's great. And like on this show, you know, we tell people like, we do have this beef that is grass fed, grass finished. But if you can't get that, get yourself something that you can pay for comfortably that doesn't break your bank. But I know that other than like the black stomach of the cows, there's probably a whole lot of other reasons why grass fed, grass finished and the way you're raising your beef is superior and healthier

can you help us break down more of those reasons why like it's just higher quality sure um so the omega-3 to omega-6 is the number one um the other piece of it is higher protein density. Um, it was grass fed meat grows a lot slower. Uh, so it's, it, it, it take effectively for my beef and any grass fed operators take it to full finish weight. It it's usually about two over two years in a conventional, um, operations about 16 months. And that's because the animals go through puberty a lot faster when they're on a corn diet, the same thing that we see in, in with humans, right? Like there's this huge epidemic now of girls go through puberty now in America starting at seven. And 20 years ago, it was 13.

So there's been a five-year shift younger in the onset of puberty in American girls. And that has to do with high-calorie diets, nutritionally dense diets. So basically, your body is triggered when you have a ton of, and there's a couple of different theories why it's a little bit of a rabbit hole, but I'll just explain it because I think it's kind of relevant is that when we're not, people don't know why these, it's either some combination of like endocrine chemicals and things in the environment, BPAs that are triggering it, or it's just nutritional density. So you get this really, really high nutritional density. Another theory on it is that the one thing, this is the concept of

actual nutritional deprivation also triggers puberty because when females think that they're going to die, they produce eggs and they become highly fertile. So that's actually how the conventional egg industry works is called forced molting, where they put the females through starvation cycles and they think they're going to die and they pump out a ton of eggs. And that's a very well-known way to increase fertility and productivity in females of all species. So another kind of theory about why we're having this early onset puberty is that it's so nutritionally bereft, right? Like it's so nutritionally poor that effectively we're fat, but we're starving ourselves. A lot of reasons why, but whatever is happening, we're getting our periods like five years earlier than we used to as

females in the US. And so there's a similar thing that happens in beef cattle that go through puberty a couple of months. In that case, it's a two-year life cycle. So it's a lot shorter, but they're going through puberty much, much younger. They're putting on all their secondary sexual characteristics faster, gaining weight faster, all that's happening. So that means that their musculature is building up much more quickly and it's lower quality. And that's something that's hard for me to substantiate with data. Okay, there's plenty of, you know, there's plenty of experience that people have with me tasting ropey, um, being, you know, the fibers are kind of rough and thick. And one characteristic of my meat that I hear from my customers is that it's very fine and tender. Um, and it's very soluble so that when you eat it,

you never get that like kind of cud of meat on your palate that you're like, you guys have been talking about, especially with chicken, how you do it. And then there's like this thing that's on your tongue. What is that? And what do I spit it out? Or do I swallow this? And it's like, so gross. So that is a characteristic of fast growing protein across species. So that's just kind of a more of a, that's just kind of an ewe factor, gross factor. The nutritional components of that, I don't know, but I have, this is where there's not a lot of research, but I have to say, it's like, if these animals are putting on all this weight quickly, The nutritional components of that, I don't know. But this is where there's not a lot of research. But I have to say, it's like if these animals are putting on all this weight quickly, the

meats of a lower quality, like a lower taste quality, it's less satiating. That's something that has been documented, that faster growing meat. Like with my meats and with a lot of these like heritage animals and slow growing, you eat less of it and you feel more full because it hits more of the micronutrient hunger. You know, so a lot of when we're eating, we're eating for calories, but we're also eating for micronutrients. So foods that are more nutrient dense end up filling you up faster.

So if you're looking to be leaner, then that's a great way to kind of not have to make so many sacrifices. So those are kind of a lot of the trade-offs. I think another big thing to notice is flavor. You know, one thing that kind of is interesting to me in the U.S. is that so much, I say this in the U.S. because it's different in Europe, although it's changing everywhere in the world as agriculture consolidates, but, and it's also in South America is less of a tradition, but we have this tendency to put lots of sauce on all of our meats.

And that sauce typically has a bunch of stuff in it that I'm concerned about eating. Like it's got soy and highly refined seed oils, and it has a lot of sugar in it. And listen, I love a good barbecue as much as anybody, but for an everyday thing, I don't want sugar, soy, and canola oil on my meat to make it palatable. And I think what we've done is like, we've traded off like just natural palatability in meat with really high quality, slow growing protein. We've substituted with this fast growing protein, and then we've had to compensate for the flavor deficit. And so we've become reliant on everything needs a sauce. And that's another thing I think you'll find when you go to a high quality grass fed providers that you're like, oh, wow, salt and pepper. I get that comment a lot of my recipes because I cook a bunch and I'd love to cook and I'm always

putting recipes out on Instagram and other platforms and people are like, oh, this needs more seasoning. I'm like, actually, just try using better quality protein. You don't have to drench it in like satay sauce if you're using a super high quality protein. So people have that experience a lot in in some in other countries of saying, like, I went and I ate a lot of food and I didn't gain weight or I felt full sooner. And that's something I found, too, is that that's another characteristic of me. I think I've frozen up. Oh, right. How did you do that before? It looks like you're back. Firm wifi. Sorry about that. It's usually really strong. Am I back? You're good now. Okay. Awesome. Where'd you lose me at? Sorry.

You said, I think I'm frozen and then you froze. So I, the, the other pieces that the satiety, so I mentioned that as another, another one, then there's also the benefit of like knowing that you're eating meat from an animal that's eating an appropriate diet, right. And is thriving and is healthy and is not suffering from inflammation and massive like gastrointestinal distress. Have you personally ever had any like dietary issues or like what made you kind of I know that you spent some time cooking and doing that kind of stuff overseas. But was there anything that like led you to investigate nutrition a little bit more? 100%. I mean, I started out as a pure culinary and I was always athletic, but the nutrition

piece of it was less interesting to me when I lived abroad for seven years. And in that time, I became very carnivorous because I lived in Northern Italy primarily. And I went from being a vegan and vegetarian in high school and college, like a lot of women in my kind of age cohort. And I moved to Italy and started just eating meat two times a day in northern Italy. And when I came back to the U.S. seven years later, I kept that diet. And I gained as soon as I moved back, like within three months, I gained like 35 pounds and I, which for me is a lot. And it was a massive shift where I'm like, I didn't change very much. Like I didn't change how I was eating. Um, but something about the food was different. And now my experience is always difficult with like a sample size of one, right? Like how am I

supposed to, um, generalize from, from from that but i took it on myself to just like let me i love eating meat i thrive on meat i had a ton of little health issues when i was a vegan and a vegetarian that were um just plagued me and i they all went away with a higher meat diet so i think just for my genetics it works great for me why i started buying whole animals why were you vegan buying whole animals why were you vegan what's that why were you vegan what made that i was environmental reasons i mean i remember reading that it was 12 pounds of grain for every pound of beef and thinking that that was irresponsible.

And that at the time, it was like the Ethiopian kids that were starving. You remember those images, right? Of like kids moving around the world and feeling terrible about my choices. I didn't know at the time that cows actually shouldn't even eat grain right um so it was there was a lot of layers of misinformation in that right you know like you're saying i'm going to stop eating beef because beef that's fed the wrong thing is bad for the environment or bad for people that's crazy right um so that was a a real um kind real kind of eye opener for me when I moved to Europe and I started working actually as a cheesemaker initially. And at that time I was eating meat

in my, in my college years, cause I was very athletic. I started to need to eat proteins kind of before the protein powder era. So I started eating meat and then I moved there and I realized like, Oh, a lot of animals do better on pasture and they can be at pasture. So that was a huge change for me. And I ended up just getting my complete worldview changed upside down. You know, like everything I thought about me being bad changed in that time because I saw animals being raised kindly. I saw natural husbandry. I saw natural mothering of animals. So animals being around their young, you know, think about it.

The stuff you hear about meat as an American, it's like veal calves and cages and battery hens and cages and all of these different, you know, kind of major, like the way that we hear about animal agriculture, it's all horrifying. You don't want to have anything to do with it. Right. Yeah, you definitely don't want to think about it. That's for sure. Yeah.

So, you know, I just I really felt that there was a that that eating meat was irresponsible. And I didn't mean I made that choice without even even thinking about the health consequences for myself. even thinking about the health consequences for myself. But fortunately, by living abroad and then changing my diet, I got way healthier, way happier. I thrive on a really high fat diet and I love to cook. And gosh, cooking is a hell of a lot easier when you're using a lot of animal fat. So everything kind of gelled for me. But when I came back and I realized, you know, I had effectively a pretty strong inflammatory response to the meat that I was able to get in America. And I bought my whole first cow back in 2005. And I'm just trying to get myself some better quality meat because at the time at the grocery store, I really couldn't buy anything. And from there, I started to learn that it's really hard to like solve it yourself when it comes to

buying meat direct. Um, and that's kind of the Genesis, you know, many years later to starting Belcampo with my business partner was just like getting, getting, uh, uh, trying to make it a little bit easier for people to get access to a really high quality product. I love that you said you moved to Northern Italy and became a carnivore. It made you sound like you were a savage and you're just like, yeah, eat me and work it. And that's it. I remember the first time my sister came and visited me and my sister's actually now a vegan. There's a lot of layers to that decision on her part, but there's she, you know, and I, I had,

I started to eat a lot of raw meat because in Northern Italy, everybody eats tartar almost every dinner. she, you know, and I, I had, I started to eat a lot of raw meat because in Northern Italy, everybody eats tartar almost every dinner. Like you have to retire the first course. And so she came over and I had raw sausage because you eat, there's a very popular, so delicious. It's raw free range veal sausage with raw pork fat in it. It's bomb. Um, and I had this platter of like raw meat and raw sausage for dinner and like a salad. And she was like, you have gone insane. And I remember she ate cookies for dinner because I had like some cookies in the pantry. And she's like, okay, I'm going to opt out of this. And that's when I realized I'm like, I kind of had gone like seriously off the reservation

in my years there. And you know what it was? It's like, it's your body feeling better. You know, when you notch into a program where your body thrives, you're like hell or high water, I'm not going back. If you're hip to, you know, paying attention to your physiology. And there's been times in my life when I haven't been super into that or haven't chosen to pay attention. But when you're paying attention, like you lock into a program that works for you, you're like, this is what I want. Cause it's such a game changer in your energy

levels and your happiness. You know, everything comes into line when you've kind of found a really great program for your nutrition. So for me, it was just like, wow, this is so great that so many things are kind of feeling great for me. And I was just like, this is the way that I want to be. And also, you know, I love cheese. I love meat. I love the way it tastes. I love the way it smells when I cook it. You know, there were so many layers of it. So gratifying. So I really wanted to keep that going. And then when I came back and it was like this massive body transformation and I, and the product that I would buy at the grocery store, like smelled really gross, you know, you open the chicken in the bag and it smells like fish and it's just like, I want to over,

you know, and then the USDA is like overcook everything. Cause it might be contaminated. I want to over, you know, and then the USDA is like overcook everything because it might be contaminated. You know, I get all these things. It's like cook your meat to 165 degrees. And I want to eat this raw. Like, I want to feel good eating it raw. Are you kidding me? You know, so that was like a real awakening to me about how different things were where I'd been. And it's not like I'm like, I don't eat raw meat every day.

I do eat raw meat occasionally. I'm happy that I can eat raw meat from bel campo um whenever i want but um it's it's definitely it put me on a path because it's like it's one thing to do it for the planet it's another thing when you know you're doing something that really supports human wellness and human nutrition that that lights a really big fire in me. You know, you mentioned you were comparing different meat suppliers and the quality of their meat. And you legit just like saw that they were lying about the quality of their meat.

So that, that kind of set off some alarms in my head. How common is that in that industry? Because the fact that you can just, you can say it's like this and sell it to people. And then, I mean, you find out that it's not even close.

How, how often does that it's not even close. How often does that happen? A lot. You know, there's, there's no wins in me and bashing my competitive set, obviously. But so here's the problem. The, the way that these terms are defined is regulated effectively by industry. So let me just walk you through it. If I'm going to define a term to put on a package, it's usually the biggest player in the room that gets to define it with the USDA. So in the case of natural,

the definition of natural is effectively really the groundwork is laid by Tyson Foods. So you'll notice that the word natural is all over Tyson's stuff. And Tyson is like the worst offender in terms of terrible quality poultry. It's inhumane. It's raised to grow weight at like five to six times the natural speed. So it puts on weight six times as fast as natural. So it's the opposite of natural, but that term was defined by them. And obviously

they've got a lot of clout, right? And so unfortunately, many of these terms become co-opted in a way that's kind of unique to the meat industry, the level of co-option that happens because of how consolidated the meat industry is. The meat industry is the most consolidated of the food industries. And that's because of all the complexity and the capital expense, like slaughterhouses, massive amounts of land needed. It's very capital intensive. And that's one of the reasons our business has actually worked is that we had a long-term financial partner that helped it get through the early years and grow, right?

But most small-scale ranches don't have that. So it's a very capital intensive industry. There's a couple of big players that control everything. And those guys work very closely with the USDA and they define the terms and the regulation of the terms. So I choose, for example, to not use the word natural on any of my products because I don't want a word on a Bell Campbell product that's the same as a word on big industry, non-natural product. So the words that you can pay attention to are words that are regulated with certifications. So if I can line it out for you, if I'm buying poultry and I want a really high quality product, the number one thing I'm looking for is the word

pasture, which is a regulated term that has been, it's such an extreme term. It hasn't been co-opted by industry because it can't be. And that means that the animals live most of their life outdoors. So I'm looking for number one, pastured. Number two is organic. And if there's a bird that's organic and one that's pastured, I'm buying the pastured one because that's actually more meaningful in terms of the quality of the product and the healthiness of it. Pastured, again, organic. The third thing I'm looking for, which is a nice, but not necessary because it's kind of implicit in the other two, is if it's certified humane or animal welfare association approved. So those three, pastured, organic, and certified, some type of humane certification, that's for poultry. And if you get one of the three,

please let it be pastured. In beef, I'm looking for grass-fed and finished. And the reason that I want it to say grass-fed and finished or 100% grass-fed, that is regulated. And that will ensure that the animal has its entire life on grass. The problem is that in the U.S., all beefs spend a big chunk of their lives on grass because they're with their moms. They're nursing. And then they're out in small-scale holders of what's called cow calf operations there's thousands thousands of them across the u.s they could have anywhere from 25 to like 3 000 mother cows produce calves they nurse them they sell them at six months so in that time they're technically on grass so an animal can

be completely feedlot raised and still say grass fed on the package. So I want to see grass fed and finished. And I want to see organic certified again, number two, and number three would be certified humane. Now, why I'm putting organic as second is that organic is really meaningful. It's not easy to get, but it doesn't mean everything. And that's a problem because many consumers think it means everything. But it doesn't touch on the actual what's in the diet in many cases. And it doesn't touch on some aspects of how the animals are held. So in the case of, say, an organic milk, organic beef, it can be feedlot but fed organic corn. So that's still maladaptive. It's still not great for the animal, but it's organic.

So there's workarounds for organic that are concerning for me. So that's why it's usually number two for me, although it's pretty consistently in all of our Bell Campbell products. For pork, it's similar to chicken. It's pastured as number one, organic number two, and humane number three. And then lamb is similar to beef. So ruminants and omnivores are kind of the same, two similar categories. In the ruminants, I want the grass-fed and finished.

I want the organic and certified humane. In the omnivores or monogastrics, pigs and chickens, I want that pastured. I want that organic number two and some type of humane certification for number three. Words that mean nothing, okay? Words that mean nothing. pre-main certification for number three. Words that mean nothing. Okay. Or does it mean nothing? Natural. Okay. Means absolutely nothing. And sadly, cage-free doesn't mean much. Sadly, free range doesn't mean much. And that kind of breaks my heart because I think free range could have been a great certification. But free range really means that the animals have access to pasture, but they're not actually pastured.

It's like saying, if you're in great shape, you get a gym membership or you're in great shape if you go to the gym every day. Right. So the pastured animals are actually live outdoors all the time, whereas the free range have a access to the outdoors through a small door at you know that's that that's somewhere in their giant indoor hoop house so unfortunately those words don't mean as much now do they mean something yeah if you're in a whatever food desert or a place where you don't have any other options and there's that option it's probably better but um sadly there's not there's not much meaning and much teeth to those words anymore. Were you kind of like almost mad or frustrated when you switch from being vegan to wanting to eat more meat and then starting to understand that meat could be farmed in an ethical fashion and in a fashion that can actually not only not hurt the planet, but it seems like regenerative agriculture can be a plus for the environment where you

kind of like, why the fuck did I know about this? This is like, why is this hidden? Yeah. Like also just some of the health stuff too. I think especially for women, it's like, you want to take care of your fertility. You better eat meat. You know, like you want to take care of like beauty and stuff like collagen, et cetera. You better eat meat. Like you want, I think, especially for women, there's this like mentality

that's really naive about diet, which is that you can kind of choose your own adventure and everything's valid and everything works. Everything in moderation. I said everything in moderation. Exactly. Like, actually, no, I mean, I don't believe it. Yeah. So I, that was sort of, everything in moderation i said everything in moderation exactly like actually no i mean i don't believe it yeah so i i that was sort of i i more get frustrated at young women now who are in that journey and are like oh i don't eat this i don't eat that and it's like i'm just a big fan of kind of like eating what my grandma ate um or my great grandma ate um now right but it took me a while to get there you know keep in mind i was a child of the 90s or you know like like adolescence in that time and it was all snack wells and you

know these like horrible fat-free things and and and nobody's saying oh you should eat protein or get fat it'll help your mood you know i also think too like women in the u.S. have just stratospheric and unprecedented levels of anxiety. And for me, the most calming thing for my and what helps me, I think, stay grounded a lot of times is like a high fat, high protein diet. It just it keeps you calm. It keeps you satiated. Like I'm anxious when I'm hungry. You know, I feel like we're not feeding ourselves holistically. We're not like we're not nourishing ourselves. ourselves holistically. We're not like, we're not nourishing ourselves. You know, we're not, there's not a deep nutrition. We're eating this food that's high in calories, nutritionally bereft. And that's why we all need supplements now too. You know, why didn't our grandparents need supplements? Cause the food was far, far richer in 1950, a chicken that came to market had been alive for 54 weeks. And now a chicken that's sold at a grocery store,

a Tyson chicken, two and a half weeks. That's insane. Right? So that chicken that lived for 54 weeks, that was far more nutritionally dense than what we get today. And it also had tons of micronutrients that we don't even know what they are or how to track them. So I feel like we've kind of, so i do get angry about just broadly now i'd say i'm more irate that things

like my coaches and stuff back then weren't like oh you know because i always always had things like canker sores and um and dry skin and really a lot of split ends and and all that's gone away since i you know the way that i eat now has been gone for 20 years. But it was like all these little plaguing issues. And it's so, and I see, you know, so many women now struggling with like complex and expensive supplement routines. And also, you know, this is where I'm going to sound like a crazy person, but I use exclusively just like animal fat for my skincare as well. And I have a skincare line that's lard and tallow and B fat base. It's like the most natural,

I don't want to put anything on my skin that's petroleum based. Like that's just a, like a no brainer, right? I'm not going to put a petroleum based stuff or anything with BPAs on my like large porous organ that surrounds my body, right. My skin. So, but I think that people are so misguided now and they've really chosen to trust kind of big industry with a lot of really key decisions about their lives. And they haven't really questioned what are the motives or thinking, you know, behind those organizations and how they structure things. Right. So it's like, we sort of outsource

all of our feeding and care and all these major like food fabrication and you know all of our pizzas are now prepared all of our lasagna is now frozen and all the companies that are doing all that lasagna making and pizza making for us we're like that's cool they totally got us like they're watching out for us and they're not you know they're not and we've outsourced this big part of our lives to them with no question that they're taking care of us and they're not. And we're showing the results in our society with our struggle with weight, our struggle with like mood disorders, anxiety, um, and depression. Like these are all diet related. And I think we've, we've, we've kind of like just given this away and without really thinking about the

consequences. Have you noticed a rubbing your body and animal fat has resulted in like a perfume? Has somebody been like, Oh my God, what is that? loving your body and animal fat has resulted in like a perfume. Somebody had been like, Oh my God, what is that? Your man, a little less. So yeah, no. And my dog does like gopans, but yeah, I actually, you know, for a while I just was using it with coconut oil. Like you can do half and half coconut oil and, and sue it. And then,

Oh my God, you smell like bacon. I would never use a smoke fat. I just use a clean, natural base fat. So it actually is pretty odorless. And then you could put essential oils in there, or you can mix it with something like a rose hip oil.

If you want it softer and have a better scent to it. But there, I mean, these are animals that we share a lot of our DNAna with unlike plants that produce like steam plants right we don't share much of our dna with like rice bran uh oil so one thing that's like you actually have a huge absorption um so it's a really awesome technique i mean i think for guys too it's like it's a great it's also really cheap you can make you know a quart of suet for like six dollars and so many people are spending

$80 on skincare creams and this and that and stuff. And it's just a fantastic product. But just in general, where you can find a simpler version that works in your lifestyle, you should opt for it. And in general, I actually got into using the animal fat because I was reading about how in the 20s and 30s, well, a, we were always long on fat. So I was trying to find ways to do things with it. And I usually start with myself and I was pregnant with my second child at the time. And I had been reading about BPAs in all the cosmetics. And so I started using coconut oil mixed with lard. And now I've transitioned to Sue it, which is beef fat because the absorption is just amazing. It works really great for my skin.

But, you know, it's inexpensive. It's totally natural. It works, does everything it's supposed to do. It's like, why wouldn't you do it? So I started out just trying to think, and I sell some more fats to some of these crazy people that use it as moisturizer. And now I'm like one of the crazy people, right? Because it worked really great for me.

But yeah, I also think just, you know, there's a number of different products that we used to make you speak toothpaste out of animal fat too right so there's lots of different things that we used to do soap was all was all naturally and based on tallow and lard um just you know just until 50 or so years ago there are many ways that we use this like precious because these animals used to be very expensive to produce so we were watching every single last thing right and so we were very conscious about the whole animal utilization. Not like, oh, I'm going to be badass and eat head sheets, kind of whole animal thing.

But like we were just taking every piece and making it into soap, making it into cream, making it into shampoo, all those different things we made out of animals. And that was actually more respectful because we used the whole thing, right? And then it kind of gets us out of this troubling issue that we have now where so many of our cosmetics and things we put on the surface of our body are so chemically based. You know, I want to know, cause you mentioned, uh, chickens earlier, do you plan on, or do you do chicken at all? Cause like when you mentioned the, uh, chickens are now being put into two, like two weeks on a market versus 54 weeks in the past um i really never paid attention much chicken because i don't really buy much chicken

anymore right so um when when you think about that do you do you like are there any companies that you know do that well or do you plan on going into chickens at all yeah i apologize and actually you guys blacked out so i'm not even sure which one of you is talking to this. Oh, I can't say you respond to you, but I'm not sure which is the question. I don't know your voice as well. Well enough, but so we do produce chicken.

I produce seven species here, beef, pork, lamb, chicken, duck, and turkey. And the chickens that we produce is one of the products that people are

kind of most cultish about for our brand, because it takes about 10 weeks to come to finish instead of two and a half. So we don't do 50 weeks like they did in the 1950s. But we do. It's about 10 weeks. And so our chickens now we retail them. It's like it's like twenty five dollars for a whole chicken. So it's an expensive chicken.

And it's actually the product that I have the worst profitability on. That's like too much information. But the world of my problems, like it's very hard for me to charge enough, you know, to make that chicken worth it. But you can find chickens like my, and I'll send you guys all my chickens and my steaks and ground beef and everything.

You're going to get big, huge care packages. And hopefully, you know, you can ongoing, you can get product from us because it's a very different experience than eating it. You know, you take it out of the bag. it doesn't have that fishy smell and it looks really athletic that's actually one of the most viral posts i ever did on instagram was my chicken next to a trader joe's organic chicken and then i put the post of like which chicken do you want to look like because my chicken is like hella athletic it's red it's very muscular um it actually has small breasts and big thighs but it's

like it looks like a dog and that was like got huge virality because i think a lot of people don't put it together it's like you already eat you know do you want to be the flabby puffy pale one or do you want to be like the buff tan one um so our chickens are are a totally different breed but there's a reason why people don't do it in that it's hard to get consumers to pay the price. You know, now Americans, 60% of the protein that we eat in America is chicken. And that's a really different mix. I think it was in the 1930s, it was like 15%. And we used to eat a lot more beef and a lot more pork. And pork has gone out of fashion and chicken has risen because people perceive it as being healthy. But it's actually the worst offender in terms of consolidation and quality. So it's also really sadly, something like 50% of chicken produced in America is contaminated with fecal matter. There's actually a lawsuit

from the Physicians Association of the United States suing the poultry industry because of this consistent contamination. And the reason why is that chickens are very small and their intestines and their whole digestive system is very fragile. So when you kill it and eviscerate it, there's a really high risk of contamination, right? Just kind of like math, because think about it with a beef, like when you kill it and take the guts out it still has the skin when you take the guts out right so when you're removing the stomach and the viscera there's very limited contact because if a little piece of poop splatters out of the guts it's going to hit the internal rib cage so bone or it's going to hit the hide and all that's coming off the animal so your contamination is pretty much about post-harvest so that's like a guy like sneezing on the meat or somebody who's got dirty hands or like water

that's contaminated that's how beef gets contaminated chickens sorry chickens very small that these tender little enchails they're being eviscerated there's feathers right and it's like it's a it's got thin skin it breaks easily So there's a lot of contamination of raw flesh with the fecal matter just because of the nature of the bird. Now, that's avoidable if you go very slow, right, and are very careful. In those big industry lines, this is all automated. These are all killed basically by machines, right? And it moves very, very quickly. So the way that we manage that is interesting. And it's a lot, it's the way we

manage a lot of things in America, which is we produce this literally kind of like a shitty chicken because it's got poop on it. And we dunk it in chlorinated water bath. And that is a chiller, right? It's called, it's for chilling. So that takes the body temperature down to a safe territory where the contamination is limited so that the microbes can't populate. But when you dunk it in that water, you're ostensibly doing it to lower the body temperature. But that water now has chlorine, so bleach and lactic acid in it. And what that water does is kills a lot of the superficial bacteria. Although despite that, we still have 50% contaminations. It gives you a sense of the magnitude of the issue.

And it also adds 15% body weight to the chicken. Chickens are sold by weight. You see how puffy chickens are when you buy them now at the grocery store. And think about in your body, like if you get hit and you get a bruise, what happens, right? You get the swelling. So when you have any physical trauma to musculature, the way it heals itself is it absorbs liquid. That's the natural response of our bodies. When we've had any traumatic injury or hit, we heal by absorbing liquid. So there's this puffiness, that's the bump on the bruise. But when you have an animal that's been just been killed, that all the musculature is going through that chemical process

of absorbing liquid so it will as it's going to rigor mortis absorb a lot of liquid so that adds body weight unfortunately that water that it's in is like chlorinated water so if you've had the experience of cooking a chicken breast or a piece of chicken and you see a white liquid come out of it you've had the experience yeah or you're cooking like you got like ground chicken you're cooking and there's like this white it's like water is coming out of it that's that chlorinated water bath coming out of the chicken oh man wow so that's a really disgusting thing to think about because what are you doing to your microbiome you're eating chlorine right well um like what are you doing i mean just think about the actual

consequences for your body like of having your basically you're you're you're having a chicken that's 15 of its weight is a antimicrobial liquid like it's horrifying right but that is just in the reason that we get away with that it's not because it's not labeled like a cleaning thing right really is a cleaning thing it's like oh no this cleaning thing. It's like, oh no, this is what we need to do to get the animals to quickly come to temp to limit microbial contamination. But what they're really doing is washing it in bleach and increasing the body weight. So that's why that's sort of the short story of why chicken is really horrifying in the US. The one kind of crazy thing too about chicken. So we've gone from 50 plus weeks to about two weeks in the past 70 years and

operations like mine that do things the old fashioned way, but more efficiently do it in about 10 weeks. And they, in the 1930s chicken on a per pound basis was more expensive than filet mignon. Wow. Okay. So chicken has had the most radical transformation in price per pound, which is why it's become the most radical transformation in price per pound which is why it's become the most popular meat it's very very cheap yeah so anytime i want i hope you can coach yourself too it's like when you go to the grocery store and you're like wow 2.99 a pound you got to

be like wow how the heck did they do that right how are they able to make it so cheap so anytime you see meat that's surprisingly cheap that should really be a trigger for a bunch of questions like how on earth can that happen? What efficiencies have been brought into this? So let's just talk about what that means on an economic basis for chicken. That process where we went from a dude standing there like we have at our plant who uses an electric sun knife, cuts the head of the chicken off, then takes it out and has gloves on and moves all the viscera carefully and then scalds it and moves all the feathers, everything. That whole process has turned into a single machine that boom, boom, and that happens in maybe eight seconds. So that is a massive cost savings. So that guy standing there in Northern California with

all the benefits and the labor laws and everything, that's a very expensive role for me to fill. So the cost of moving from that to the machine that does it in eight seconds, that's a huge cost savings. That's a huge reason why my chicken's 25 down to the, you know, whatever 599 for a whole chicken that you might see at the grocery store. Then the other, you know, factors are the feed is this, you know, the way that it's raised is raised in a way that rapidly increases its weight very quickly. It's raised in the dark. It's raised deep. So the beaks are actually cut off the birds because they're under so much stress that they peck each other to death if they leave their beaks on. So they're worried that they can eat with just their tongue. And the reason they're

pecking each other to death is that they have so much stress. So their cortisol levels are very high, which increases their weight gain, right? Just like with humans, you don't want to stress, you gain weight more easily. So these are all these factors. So it's like, when you say, wow, that's so cheap, you need to really think about that and be like, what were the trade-offs that happened to make that so cheap? And what are the health implications of those trade-offs? Okay. So some of those might just be ick factors, the chicken being de-beaked. Does that have a health implication for you? No. But what else does it tell you about it? These animals are raised in a massive cortisol environment. It's super, super stressful. What's happening to their hormonal balance and

their endocrine balance that ends up in this meat that we don't know about? I might think about that, right? And then another thing too, it's like this animal is raised in a way that, and processed in a way that is so dirty that it has to be dunked in bleach. And I'm eating, you know, like one 10th to 15% of what I'm eating is actually bleach water. That's a huge health impact, right? That's bad for your stomach. That's why I think a lot of people, you know, you look at the number of people that eat Tums after every meal in America, it's stratospheric, you know, people, a lot of people after every meal, cause they feel queasy. Well, why do they feel queasy? Maybe it's because they had like a teaspoon of bleach with their

chicken. Right. So there's some things to you. It's like, look at that cheap price and think about the tradeoffs that led to that cheap price. That's the question you've got to be having in the grocery aisle. Right. That's the conversation you should be having with yourself. Anya, you're revealing a lot of dirty little secrets that I'm sure some of the big names probably really hate that you're sharing all this with us. But have you actually received any blowback from any of those companies as far as like it all goes back to? I don't know if you've seen the documentary Super Size Me 2. He made a second one. Oh, wow.

I need to check that out. Yeah, because a lot of the stuff that he reveals in that documentary, it's, you know, a lot of the stuff that you're saying about, like, you know, like some of the labels on the packaging doesn't mean a damn thing. But in that documentary, he did show that some of the bigger companies like Tyson actually have like a stronghold on the entire industry and they can kind of make somebody sink or swim. And so I was just curious if you've experienced anything like that, just because you are a big name in the regenerative agriculture, even though you said you were kind of small, but because you are so big, I'm wondering if maybe you kind of have a target on your back now. I'm interested. I think that's going to be a sign of success for me when that happens.

I'll be going to bring it. You know what I mean? I've been invited to be on some panels and stuff, um, with like people from some of the larger industries. I won't say which companies, but there's been extremely tense. Like I got the sense they know exactly who I am and what I say. Um, and so that's, uh, that's been interesting for me. And like, I kind of makes me wonder how comfortable I am about the next step for my company, you know, cause it's obviously about, I mean, I'm here to, I'm not here to take things down at all. I'm not like a challenger in that I want to see the system

explode. You know, like if I worked for PETA or did something like that, like where I'm like, this all has to go away. That's actually not my goal. My goal is to build an amazing alternative that people can feel really good about and that they can buy everywhere that they need to. It's not impossible to get. That's success for me. I want to build something that is incredibly high integrity, is a better option for people, answers all the questions, and then it's pretty easy to get. So success for that is automatically going to be a big challenge um for them right because right now i'm doing my first deal with a big retailer and um when that gets popping then i think things are going to get

heavier for me um but i'm ready for it you know i don't i also think we're sort of carving out a because i have my own supply chain you know we have 30 000 acres of farmland seven species raised commercially have our own slaughterhouse um we do now a lot of our business right now is through e-commerce so i'm selling directly all around the u.s so i don't really have to work too much with big ag um and the nice thing too is that you, another piece to acknowledge is that there's thousands of small farms across the U S and I encourage everybody who's listening to make an effort to buy from them as well. Like there's lots of regenerative small farms, the chickens that I was talking about raising 10 weeks, like there's hundreds of farms across the U S that

sell at farmer's markets that do exactly that. Right. So we're not the only people, but we're a bigger, bigger player. So the thing that's been, I, so I'd say the answer to the industry, um, questions I've had nothing extremely overt against me. Um, I've definitely felt tension, um, in my conversations with people because my, my premise really challenges their claims. The, the P the most aggressive, um, outreach that I've had is really with PETA and with animal rights organizations who have really tracked and intimidated me in the past. And actual physical intimidation. I had an experience. I was nine months pregnant.

I'd given a talk at Cal. And I was surrounded by people. And they drew me aside. And it was a terrifying experience. So I've actually been more targeted by the animal rights activists. And I think my message is really challenging because I am an ex-vegan. I did the thing for all the right reasons. I am a crazy animal lover, like obsessed with animals. And so I'm like, I'm actually on, I think I'm on their team, but I think that my message helps people who share the values of loving animals and

wanting to do the right thing by animals still eat meat. So I think I'm a more of a challenge to them, right. Then, then, then like a, then, I mean, not a bigger than like Tyson, obviously, but I think my message is, is capturing a lot of people and sort of answering their questions about me. So there's definitely been a little bit more intimidation from them than by any kind of big ag. What's what has led to you having these strong beliefs in yourself to be able to do some of this stuff, to be able to go over to Europe when you're young and to learn how to cook and then to now take on this.

This huge, this huge business, you know, farming like it was a parent, a mentor. A friend. Yeah. I think I've, I've always been motivated by doing things that felt impossible or that people thought were impossible. I've also always been really just kind of interested in things and quirky. Like, like I was really passionate about cheese for a hot minute in college. That's why I went and became a cheesemaker, which then led to all my journeys down the road and led to me becoming a chef and culinarian and all those different pieces.

So I think it's like, I definitely, in retrospect, I, you know, I moved to Europe when I was 21, I had a carry on bag. I had a $10,000 scholarship. I had a folding bicycle. And I just came back seven years later. And all my money was in traveler's checks. It was nuts. I didn't have a cell phone. It was so risky as a young woman to just be like, I'm going out to these really rural areas and learn how to make cheese. So I think I have a healthy dose of being insane as well. A lot of overconfidence in myself and like, God bless that nothing really bad happened to me. And I, you know, I did really learn how to make cheese and I really learned how to cook and I really learned how to live. And I think I

was, I was pretty disinterested in like a near-term financial gain, which has been helpful. You know, I think a lot of people right out of college too, and just right out of high school, whatever your point of liftoff in life is, is that you, you know, you, you're defining success in a near term thinking. And for me, it's like, I wanted to do something transformative and big. And then the everyday fire is like, is the integrity, like being able to get up and do things with integrity and, and have something I can really stand behind. It would be really hard for me to be in a position where I didn't have a sense of believing in my product and being just eating it every day, loving the way... I mean, I interact with our product all the time. And it's like I'm constantly in it and enjoying it and making it better. And that kind of piece of it of really feeling gratified. I'm just like insanely domestic and love to cook and love to grill. And so like the gratification for me of just producing like the dopest, best thing to grill is huge. You know,

like the gratification for me of like, at the end of the day, I'm just love the stews that I can make in the braises. And I love what I can grow. Like, I'm just very proud of those things. So that's another kind of piece of it. But I think, you know, I get this question now too, from like a lot of young women about, you know, I'm 45. I've been in animal ag pretty much for two decades now. And it was definitely a, not a cool thing to do. Now it's cool to be into food, but when I was 20, it was really not cool. Um, and unless you're going to be like a fancy chef or something. Um, but it's like, it's, it was just about sort of sticking to what felt right and being kind of courageous in the everyday, you know, like taking the risks and doing the thing that felt good and not the thing that necessarily looked the coolest. Right. Um,

that's been, that's something that I've been, been consistent in my life, um, that served me well, you know, cause now I've ended up producing something that is, it's time, I think come or coming right. Just by kind of sticking to my guns and doing something I believed in for many years before it was, before it became popular. That's awesome. What do you do for fitness? I love the Bulgarian bag. That's my. What do you do for fitness? I love the Bulgarian bag. That's my favorite jam because I travel a lot for, I mean, I go to the farmer bunch.

I got a house up here and my kids come with me. It's a great experience. So, you know, the Bulgarian bag that the swing thing, I love that. I do that. I do kettlebells. I box. I've been boxing for 15 years. So I have a heavy bag at home and I work out with a trainer when I can. So those are

the major things I rode competitively in college and love erg and doing all that kind of stuff as well, rowing machine. But I really like things that I have a, I could never be like what you guys do with the intensity of the training receipts and like the commitment to writing it all down. And like, I mean, the people that I know that have come anywhere, I mean, you guys are like pinnacle in your field, obviously, but it's like, it's so impressive, like the dedication and the attention to detail around fitness. For me, it's like fitness is not even about looking good. It's about just my emotionality and being really happy. And like, just wanting to be stimulated. So I like being able to get up and do some kettlebells,

do some Bulgarian bags. And then in the afternoon, do another couple of things. I'll do squats and bench or something. So I usually try to do 15, 20 minutes in the morning, 15, 20 minutes in the afternoon, which has been something fabulous about COVID, just being able to be home more. And I have a great little home setup, but actually at my home, I've done something where I put stuff kind of all around. So I've got like some dumbbells outside. I've got a yoga swing outside. If I can go upside down, I have the soupless bands. I got my Bulgarian bag in my kitchen.

I have a medicine ball out in front of my house. So it's like, I can kind of do a circuit in my home as well and not get bored. Cause the key thing for me is like, just keep it interesting and keep it fun. Real quick question. As far as, um, regenerative agriculture is concerned. Initially, when we started this conversation, you said that you went into it looking at it 30 years from now, right? Um, you have, I'm assuming you have one pastor right now where you are, correct? Okay. So let's say 30 more years from now, when like, do you plan on having pastures in different

areas? And then also when you do set up a new pasture, is that another long game for that new pasture? Or can you set things up quicker? Okay. That's a great question. So they answer on, well, actually where I am now is our home ranch. This is 7,000 acres. We have four ranches, each of which are like between seven and 12,000 acres. so they answer on well actually where i am now is our home ranch this is 7 000 acres we have

four ranches each of which are like between 7 and 12 000 acres um and this when i started the business i did carbon baseline carbon analysis here and it was very carbon impoverished it had been farmed conventionally i did the first sampling against that six years later. This was last year. And we showed improvements in carbon sequestration in all the pastures. But that was after six years. It's very slow and it was tiny, you know,

but the scientists were like, that's great. You did great. It's improved a bunch, right? So the thing is that all of this is really long-term. You can't fast track carbon sequestration. You can't like triple it or quadruple it. It happens at the rate that it happens naturally. So the, the, the latter part of your question is like, I can't really light a fire under it. It sort of is what it is. And the, the piece that I need to do is just be consistent and show up every year with the same high integrity approach to management. And that's what gets you to carbon sequestration.

It's consistency and it's long-term. Because the kind of everyday stuff that we're doing is no-till drilling. So just going over and just adding additional seeds to increase the forage density. We're doing, you know, like hedgerows and like diversity. You're doing a lot of kind of like soft management. And it's really about how you use the animals. So we're moving the animals around the pastures in kind of dense pods, which mimic how ruminants evolved on the prairies in great migratory herds. So those are the practices of regenerative agriculture. It's not like any of this is revolutionary or you know what's revolutionary is just doing it every day for years and a bigger bigger scale right and then how we scale it this year i launched my partner farm program i have

one partner now for poultry and i'm i've got a few in the hopper that we're starting out for our beef program and what we're doing is actually implementing our regenerative practices with our partners over now. I mean, once we get this program up and running, it could be in the millions of acres. I mean, that's my dream. I don't really want to keep on. And today it's really capital intensive. So we can't raise the money for it either at some point. But like buying endless amounts of land and having more and more complex management structures, it's like not, not amazing, you know, just kind of makes it,

makes it into a big business. What I dream of doing with Belcampo is making it a marketing company for farms that we either are already regenerative and need access to markets or that want to become regenerative and need help on the actual production side and scale and marketing. So that's where I'd like to go. And that's what I'm beginning to do right now is to launch this partner program. What are some of the misconceptions in terms of somebody being like vegan or vegetarian and being against you having that much land?

What do you what do you think on on something like that because it does take a large amount of land for something like soybeans and some of the other things that a vegan or vegetarian would eat right oh yeah yeah i mean that's a that's a little bit out of my of my expertise, but broadly the idea that veganism is better for the environment is false. Um, because of, unless you are doing it in a very, very specific way. Okay. So I'll unpack that, which is that if you are relying on like beyond meats and quinoa salad and microgreens and, you know, smoothies with papayas in them for your diet as like a Los Angeles vegan, that's actually terrible carbon footprint. All these products are brought in from far away. They're all very costly. They're all, you know, really resource intensive.

In the case of things that are based off of large scale soy and grain production, they're terrible for the environment and terrible for carbon. So there's, there's really a lot of, of misinformation there around that. If you were to say, if you're going to be a vegan and want to be great for the environment, it's like, get ready to eat sauerkraut all winter long. And, you know, it's like, there's a way to do it, but it's not what vegans now. I mean, you see it's like all tropical fruits, like all asparagus and, you know, in December and zucchini, like we're just accustomed to veganism is seen as like a little bit independent of seasonality, which to make it actually environmentally better, you'd be paying attention to seasonality. So I really call into question that any of those claims, but the problem that I face is that veganism's claims about conventional meat are a thousand percent, right? They're totally right. Right. Carbon is terrible in conventional beef. Corn fed beef is raised in a way where you're

using lots of petroleum based inputs. You're doing lots of tilling where you're using lots of petroleum-based inputs, you're doing lots of tilling, you're doing lots of transportation, it's bad for the environment. So they're absolutely right. Will I say that like Impossible Meats graphs and statistics about things is 100% right? No. I mean, there's obviously manipulation and ad dollars behind making certain cases and things. I'm not going to say, oh, I'm going to quote that one exactly. But broadly, the case that they're making is correct. I mean, think about it. It's like there's a style of beef production where you're growing a human grade food, corn. You're growing that chemically with lots of Roundup or glyphosate, lots of fertilizers.

You're using tractors to plant it, tractors to harvest it. You're then storing it in silos and then trucking it to cows. to plant it, tractors to harvest it. You're then storing it in silos and then trucking it to cows. Okay. That system compared to a system like mine, where I've got these green fields right outside the window and the cows walk out there. Right. So obviously it's a totally different system, but the way that we've, you know, unfortunately the beef has just become conflated. unfortunately the beef has just become conflated. So it's the, the analogy I can think of is like, you're saying, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to go a hundred miles. I'm going to go in a Hummer.

And I'm going to say that going in a Hummer a hundred miles is the same impact or in a helicopter, a hundred miles, same impact as walking because it doesn't matter because I'm, what I'm talking about is a carbon footprint for me getting 100 miles from here okay it doesn't matter how i get there if i walk or if i take a helicopter it's the same carbon footprint so that's like the argument that those guys are making is that it doesn't really matter how it's made it's beef has this carbon footprint so i struggle with that um and that's just real misinformation and it's misinformation with the target you know like it's it's with a goal of getting people to give up meat and the kind of challenge i put out there is you know a lot of

this the push in veganism right now is about people eating powders and bars and like fabricated meats like beyond meats and the and the petri dish type of products it's all highly processed the origins are very very obscure we don't know where any of the stuff comes from it's all typically genetically modified and so like that actually really plays into the agro-industrial model right that's what they want is that things are don't have any identity conservation they're anonymous they can be produced at scale there's no differentiation so it's like the veganism argument is actually kind of a favor a big ad argument um so i just challenge that there's a lot of reliance on ingredients that

are genetically modified that are highly processed and that's the choice that you're being asked to make as a vegan right and and it's because they're trying to say like there's no trade-off in in your the food is just as convenient in reality to be a really conscious vegan you should be probably like fermenting a lot of vegetables and eating a lot of raw vegetables not relying on highly processed you know uh seed-based foods tell us about cheese what's that tell us about cheese we love cheese I love, I love cheese. What's your favorite cheese? Brie. I like all kinds of different cheese, but what are some cheeses that people maybe aren't aware of? Like, what are some cheeses that you would recommend that people just like, they don't have any clue that they can get it.

And it's maybe, you know, at most grocery stores or something like that. Well, I would say one thing for people that are looking for like an energy bar kind of equivalent or like a protein pack snack is to look at Parmesan, right? Because you look at the macros on Parmesan, it's not that different from protein bar, right? It's like high protein. It's really digestible, especially like the Italian Parmesan. It's all made from free range animals. And it's like, it's such a superfood. It's really delicious. So just like with meat, I'm always cautious about cheese that has a really long shelf life or is highly processed or anything other than just milk and red in it.

So my first piece of advice is just make sure there's no other stabilizers or things in it. I also tend to just for toxicity and safety reasons, stay away from smoked cheeses, even though I love the taste of like smoked good, but anything that's all smoke ring on it, that's just a chemical and it's not great for your gut it's antimicrobial it's not good so i'd stay away from those um cheeses that i love i'd say from a health perspective uh i find that sheep milk cheeses are super digestible sheep and goat

are both like very digestible really delicious and it's really easy to find like more natural alternatives to that for them in in mainstream grocery um so those are my favorite cheeses um are probably like hard sheep milk cheeses parmesan i too love brie although i also love shots like soft um sheep and goat cheeses with a crust on them, like a goat camembert or something that's Epic and delicious. Uh, yeah, you know, it's, I think it's the, the most underrated dinner is just like a big old piece of cheese and like some red peppers, you know, but like a, like an obscene amount of cheese.

Like I just know it's like, if you feel like you would limit yourself as the first course, but if it's actually like dinner, then it's like you can really go to town. How do they make some of those cheeses that have little crunchy things in them? How do they make those? Are those like cooked extra or something like that? No, that's actually just, that's a really good indicator of quality. So what that crunch is, it's actually a thyroid.

I've never had it. Oh, it'll change your life. But it's like an amino acid so as the so in a long-aged cheese what's happening is lots of stuff is breaking down so when you're eating a um in eating a brie the reason that the middle is soft is there's been a lipid um a lipidase reaction where the lipids have actually softened the protein proteolysis there's been like a protein breakdown so everything's kind of like all their boundaries are gone and they're all smooshy and together okay that's what and you add specific microbes to the cheese to make that happen um and then so what's happening inside of cheese as it ages is that there's just a natural breakdown and in parmesan

and in other super aged cheeses like gouda, you'll have that similar breakdown and the cell walls will be gone and the proteins are starting to degrade. And one of the components of the proteins is an amino acid called tyrosine. And those tyrosine molecules will like seek each other out slowly in the matrix of the cheese and glom together. And so when you have that crunch,

you should be thrilled because it means that your cheese has been aged naturally. Okay, so that means in the open air, because if you wrap them in plastic, the degradation doesn't really happen. Okay. So it doesn't really get, you can't get a brie to get soft. If it's wrapped in plastic, it has to be in interaction with the air. Okay. So, cause there's a natural microbial thing, but there's also just an interaction with the air. The air then feeds the bacteria inside the cheese that need oxygen to be able to do their work and break down the inside of the cheese so the naturally aged cheeses are going to have a lot more kind of going on inside of them

so that the proteins have been broken down their individual amino acids are floating around and this tyrosine stick together and they form what's called a tyrosine crystal and that tastes crunchy people often think that it's salt right it's kind of hard and what it is is actually just a bunch of these these little amino acids are like sticking together for whatever reason and it means that the cheese is and if you get you know really old like i've had five-year-old goutas that have tyrosine crystals that are like you know like half a centimeter across are huge um so the longer the cheese ages the bigger the cheese these crystals get and if you have a very uh like a cheese that's maybe a year and a half you'll sometimes see just like flecks of white across it and that's the beginning of those crystals forming it's kind of cool right imagine

like those little by the cheese all these little pieces of amino acids are finding each other and like hanging out together what's the deal with whey whey protein isn't whey protein is like a waste that you guys would get rid of when you make cheese right because it's like not palatable america now that whole milk is like less expensive like in the olden days you know the reason why cheddar is orange is that it was actually a way of you know people have been adulterating food for centuries so in the old days milk was sold on butter fat and the yellow or the butter fat that was the healthy with animal because butter fat gets yellow if animals eat green grass because that sounds good i said god that sounds good butter fat i know yeah so there's like so you used to be wanting

your milk to be yellower and now people are grossed out by yellow milk and they're grossed out by yellowish beef beef fat but all that is is keratin it's a good sign it means that the animals it's the genetics because some cows can eat all grass and don't have yellow fat and then other cows like jerseys they get yellowish fat typically dairy animals get yellowish fat or animals with some dairy genetics so not don't think that if your beef fat is white, it hasn't been on grass. Only some of the animals have the gene that turns their fat yellow with the carotene. But in the olden days, they'd add a little bit of a notto, which is a natural old fashioned yellow dye to milk and to

cheese to make it look like it'd been on grass. and so that's why you have that yellowish um that that's why people still to this day add yellow color to cheddar now i totally forgot your initial question man what were we talking about i don't remember it's whey protein yeah oh yeah so we're talking about how that's just so funny to me that now we're paying extra for milk with the fat removed right so whey protein is interesting. Milk is subsidized in the US, right? So it's considered an essential food autonomy thing. And so whey protein is widely available because a lot of milk that's produced in the US is in excess. We produce far more milk than we need. So we convert it into whey protein, typically. That's why whey protein is relatively

inexpensive is that it's a subsidized product and And it's a by-product because we produce more milk in America than we need. But basically there's two types of, of, um, protein in milk. There's casein and albumin protein. Albumin protein is the same protein that's in an egg white. Casein protein is what is coagulated through cheese making and so it's like the the primary protein in cheese and then albumin protein is a secondary protein so it's available in lower quantities and that's what whey protein is so whey used to be the liquid that comes off of cheese and it's actually cool as a as a baker i love to bake and like a lot of old-fashioned baking recipes will use whey because it's like slightly acid it's an old-fashioned way of like getting your biscuits to be lighter you can use it in pie because it's like slightly acid. It's an old-fashioned way of like getting your biscuits to be lighter. You can use it in pie crust. It's fantastic in bread.

So it adds protein. So it adds structure to your matrix, your flour matrix, but it also makes it really delicious. So when you make cheese, you add or rent it or a coagulant, which takes the casein proteins, which are long and stringy in the milk. And then it makes them curl up. And as they curl up, they trap fat and that becomes the curd, soft curd. So imagine kind of like what, um, like what a farmer's cheese or like a mozzarella tastes like. That's what curds like. Then you cut the curd and you heat it up. And then the albumin protein comes out and that's the whey. And so whey is a by-product of cheese making. Although in the US, as I mentioned, a lot of whey comes from our excess milk production because it can be extracted from milk or from cheese.

So your liquid whey, when I worked in dairies, we would take the liquid whey and we make ricotta out of it, which is a traditional whey-based cheese because whey you can coagulate through heat and acid, whereas casein you coagulate with just that rennet. We didn't talk about cheese for hours, guys. We like a cheat do a podcast um cheese days down wow yeah the way based cheese is too there's some really i mean from a health perspective they're super digestible

they're not very common anymore and the ricottas that you get in america now are whole milk ricotta and i find they kind of give me that icky whole milk feeling of like, I don't know if you have experience when you eat ricotta, it's like kind of like a gut bomb. But if you get a traditional whey based ricotta, there's one farm in California that makes it called Bellwether, which is extremely light and like super digestible. You can eat a ton of it. It's great. It's just whey. It's basically just whey. And they sell it in like a traditional basket. It's probably like eight or $9 for a basket. So it's expensive, but it's great. It's just way it's basically just way. Um, and they, they, they sell it in like in a traditional basket. It's probably like eight or $9 for a basket. So it's expensive, but it's super high in protein and really it's a, it's a fabulous suit. So way-based cheese is a

baked. If you can find a baked Italian ricotta, um, at a specialty store, that's another one. It's a way-based cheese. And so it's just really high in protein, lower in fat and a bit more digestible when people struggle with dairy, they're typically struggling with lactose and sometimes with casein. So lactose is, you know, a lot of people know the issues with lactose, but casein is a secondary trigger why people struggle with dairy. And so whey-based stuff tends to be just a lot more digestible, just like egg whites. It's exactly the same protein.

I feel like I've been missing out on so much in my life because the cheese i eat is such low quality hey can you fix that yeah i think we should just uh slices of american cheese belvita costco we've talked i should probably look at those yeah they, they've got amazing, great quality cheese. And there's so many great... The kind of bummer is that in Europe, all farmers get a tax cut. All farmers basically don't pay taxes and tax rates are really high in Europe. It's not related to what type of farmer you are. It's just if you are a farmer.

So European cheesemakers can produce just cheaper for the type of quality. So American cheesemakers, I don't shout out that many American cheeses because a type of quality so american cheesemakers i don't shout out that many american cheeses because a lot of them are really really high price and it's not their fault it's not it's just that they're competing against guys who basically get a pretty big subsidy um so unfortunately the subsidies in the u.s are concentrated in a few crops and they don't support broadly all farmers so our our European cheesemakers have just a real, like a 25% kind of savings against the American ones. So if you're wondering why you can go and get like,

what seems like a really good, like high quality artisan cheese from Europe, and it's still cheaper, even though being imported in American cheese, it's just because they don't pay taxes. They get these big tax cuts for all European farmers. So you've really kind of stacked the deck against some of our smaller American farmers with that decision. Where can people find out more about your delicious meats?

Belcampo.com. And I'm going to hook you guys up. I can't. Yeah, that'd be great. Oh my gosh. I'm going to send you all so much meat. Can you all three send me your addresses just by email so I can get you product. But for our listeners to belcampo.com is our website on Instagram. We're at belcampomeatco and I am at Anya Fernald. And I share a lot of meat based recipes and kind of like cooking for health type of recipes on my feed. And then belcampo is really about our farm, our values and our operation.

We got to come check out that farm. We're in Sacramento. How many, what are you six hours away or something? Or how far away? Yeah, not even six. I mean, I drove up from Oakland yesterday and it was four and a half hours. Okay. Yeah. That would be awesome. Yeah, I'd love to go tour that place.

That sounds like fun. Yeah. Yeah, I'll absolutely come up and host this to you guys and cook you dinner. We do events here all summer long. I've got really nice facilities. I have like glamping tents and houses and a lot of different options so let's make may of next year it's it's i say that because it's getting really cold right now and it's it's pretty cold through like mid-april it actually snows here through so well it's chillier but it'll be

beautiful starting in may great thank you so much for your time. Appreciate it. Have a great day. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Awesome. Bye guys. Bye. Bye.

Yeah. It looks like our zoom got messed up. Oh, that rose. Yeah. It's frozen too. Well, yeah,

she's, yeah, no, it was funny. Cause she said that, uh, our screen had went black. Oh yeah.

It's like, Oh no, our zoom's virtue signaling. The black box. Yeah. Our screen had went black. Oh, yeah. It's like, oh, no, our Zoom's virtue signaling. Badum. The black box. Yeah. I didn't get that joke before. There we go.

Yo. The cool thing, though, is I was recording on our end, but that was dope. Man, I learned so much. Once you went on that, like what you need to look for in terms of chicken, beef and pork. It's like, wow, I didn't realize organic doesn't really mean that much. Next time you go to the grocery store, ask them, say, I want to get cheese that has like little hard, crusty stuff in it. They'll know what you're talking about.

Really? At Costco. Yeah. They'll know what you're talking about. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And then the, um, well, if they, I got a cheese person in your store yeah but they have them in costco okay i got cheese people in there the um the the more

his name is morgan spurlock the uh supersize me too documentary it's free on you on youtube yeah you should check it out because a lot of the stuff she was saying and what's interesting is like uh like you look at everything with like a you know like is that real like or is this because the documentary is trying to be more interesting but a lot of the stuff she said kind of just like uh reiterated what was shown in the documentary about like all the labels being just total bs damn yeah and it's a it's a really it's one of those documentaries and i learned about this from chris bell because he's like you know you start filming for one thing and then all of a sudden in the middle of it like the whole thing changes to

something else and that's kind of what happened with this documentary he sets out to like start his own um fast food chicken restaurant like a healthy version or whatever and then it just it uncovers all kinds of weird nasty secrets about the chicken farming industry and a lot of it was you know well some of it i should say was some of the labels you know saying like no hormones or whatever it's like well yeah they haven't been doing that for a long time what they have done is just they breed the chickens a certain way so that way they just keep getting fatter and fatter and then you know all the stuff that she told us today with like cutting off their beaks and stuff god dang when she said that i was like i see why these ethical vegans are like i don't want to eat that

like i didn't know they cut off chicken beaks yeah that's fucked up dude that is that's horrible and they're in the dark beakless just going around that's horrible even john cena can't handle it he fell over yeah he fainted he fainted he has to fuck out when she was talking about the chlorine though because i know i know yeah and i'm like you know it's funny because when she was mentioning like the stringiness that you have in beef like i haven't experienced that with piedmontese at all and i remember after she mentioned i'm like i i remember what that was like when i used to buy store beef like that was just normal when you had that like that big string of beef with every few cuts. Like, I don't want to spit this out, but I have to.

I can just swallow it, but... Yeah, go ahead. No. I'm a fucking kid. Yeah, we're children. But no, like, growing up, like, I remember I would kind of get bummed if we were having steaks because i would have to like deal with that like all the tendons and all the nastiness like they like i just i thought it was all fat like i didn't know but then you know having some higher quality cuts and it's like oh wait it's really rare if i think it's really rare that

i have to like cut anything away or i mean i think almost every single time i eat it i eat the whole thing yeah i've never experienced that but like once you mentioned that i'm like it's been so long but i remember the like i remember that yeah and chicken too like i haven't bought chicken in a while but yeah the the runniness you can get white stuff like now i know it's chlorine i want to say it's like oh man hopefully i don't butcher this but i think it's only. I want to say it's like, oh man, hopefully I don't butcher this, but I think it's only like $5.99 for a 10 pound bag of chicken breast. I remember when I, like, that's what I eat and I ate a bunch last night and it was really good.

And now I'm upset that I'm eating chlorine. Got that chlorine in your stomach. That could explain quite a bit. So actually, I'm curious, Andrew, how much chicken, like, have you always eaten quite a bit so actually i'm curious andrew how much chicken like have you always eaten quite a bit of chicken nope no okay okay this is okay yeah no i mean growing up i told you guys before on the podcast i used to eat like crap yeah and then um when i started being more health conscious i did try to you know do the chicken and rice because that's what bodybuilders ate and like my stomach would get upset like because I was not used to eating higher proteins and like better quality food.

But no, like, no, I was always just a fan of like hamburgers. So like a lot of my protein came from that. And then now it's a lot of chicken. Yeah. Dang. Yeah. Chicken and eggs, egg whites. I learned a lot.

That was great. Yeah yeah it really was i now understand what pasteurized means or pastured pastured wow take us on out of here andrew i will thank you everybody for checking out today's episode sincerely appreciate it please hit that like button if you guys are still with us uh please make sure you're following the podcast at mark bell's power Project on Instagram, at MB Power Project on Twitter. We're obviously here on YouTube, so please subscribe here. We're on Facebook, LinkedIn, and I believe that's it for right now. My Instagram is at IamAndrewZ.

And Seema, if people want to get in touch with you, how can they do so? And Seema Yenny on Instagram and YouTube. And Seema Yenny on Twitter. And also, I've been on Instagram all this week because my phone broke. that's right we're on your burner now yeah yeah i'm on my boner but my burner uh but i can't get to my instagram from this phone because it's not the same number so anyone owner yeah anyone that follows that smooth panther calendar it's just because i can't get to that instagram nothing's he's got a boner. Nothing's there.

By the way, yeah, I have this weird thing when I say certain words. Like, I was saying cream the other day, and I accidentally said queen. Like, I say things like a baby sometimes. I've been called out on, and I'm like, shit. Qued it. I said qued it the other day. You're like, I need to take my time. Like, give me some qued it. I'm like, it. You're like, I need to take, take my time.

Like, give me some credit. I'm like, fuck. All right, Mark, I'm sorry. I'm at Mark's Millie Bell.

Strength is never a weakness. Weakness is never a strength. Catch you guys later. We're a bunch of children.